A Life Dedicated to Hunting, Wildlife and Hunters w/ Jim Shockey

Show Notes

Jim Shockey is one of the most influential hunters of our time. With several decades circling the globe hunting, Jim has pursued jaguar in Central America, leopard in Africa and lions and bears in North America and he has developed a special admiration for Houndsmen. 

On this episode of the Houndsman XP Podcast, Chris Powell is sharing the hosting chair with co host Chad Reynolds. Jim Shockey joins the conversation mid stream to talk about a lifetime spent hunting, protecting wildlife and hunters. Jim and Chris discuss his experience hunting with hounds all over the world in pursuit of the planet’s most dangerous predators. They discuss a sustainable message for the future of hunting. Jim is preparing for the release of his first novel Call Me Hunter and the work he has done on an unparalleled museum in Maple Bay, British Columbia. The Hand of Man Museum brings together more than fifty years of collecting relics from across the world to display for and educational and interactive experience for visitors.

This is a dandy folks. We talk hounds, hunting, novels and science with the one and only Jim Shockey.

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www.houndsmanxp.com

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Show Transcript

[00:00:00] This is the Hounds Man X P Podcast

dog. Get that burn here.

The original podcast for the complete Hounds man. Get your coat.

We're gonna get, we're gonna get the podcast that represent our lifestyle of extreme performance. [00:01:00] Yeah. Yeah. Good boy, ranger Uniting Hounds, men across the globe from east to west, north to south. If you're gonna catch a cat or a line, you have to have teamwork work. We take you to the wildest places on earth.

Yeah. So how many days a week do you spend on FedEx? As much as I can, to be honest with you. Any, anytime that I get I'm out there. Join us for every heart pounding adventure on Hounds Man, X P I'll tell you, like I tell everyone else, I'm gonna hunt whether you're here or not, so you might as well be here.

It's it's cool because we're both in the same time zone, Chad. Yeah, we're for once. For once. Yeah. I guess we were back when we were together in Texas too. At the TER trials and, but we didn't record, try to record anything there, but we're in the same time zone. I [00:02:00] took a picture when I crossed into the mountain time zone.

It's like my happy space. Yeah. Yeah. When I coming west. Yep. The weather's unbelievable here. We're on the Paloma. I'm here with Shorty Gorham. We're at 7,000 feet. It's just, it's awesome. The mountain air is just so much better. I don't, I'm trying to convince my wife it would be better for her soul too, but she's not buying it.

She's just, is that right? She's not a believer. If they're found to the amenities found in the city, sometimes it could be a little hard to get disconnected from that, but she's not. No. Where we live it literally takes where I live. It literally takes me as long to get to town for my house to you know what I consider town, let's just, everybody gauges it off Walmart. It's the same amount of distance as it is from where I'm at right now. Only, is that right? Yeah. Walmart ranch is 40,000 acres and there ain't anybody that lives between [00:03:00] here in town. Yeah. There you go. It cool.

Then, yeah, it shouldn't be too hard then, like I know that's, I, my daughter's getting ready to have an anchor baby though, so it's gonna be over after November. Yeah. You gotta get her moved before she has it. It's over. No, it's already over. It's that ship is sailed. Oh. She actually told me the other day that if I wanna move out here, then I could come home a couple times a year if I wanted.

It sounds like y'all got it figured out then. You know that, that's what I'm thinking, man. That's what I'm thinking. That didn't sound like too bad a deal. No. And then once you get used to the elevation, 7,000 feet, once you're good with that, then it's pretty much easier to go just about anywhere else, yeah. I el this elevation. The only time I've ever had any problems with elevation is I spent the night in Oklahoma driving to the White Mountains in Arizona down at Springerville and drove to nine, I just in a 12 hour period. [00:04:00] So I went from, what's Oklahoma 700 feet to, to, to 9,000 feet.

And I got out and I started setting up my camp. And you and I don't do anything like get the 10 out. Drink a beer, unroll the tent, drink a beer. When I'm setting up camp, I'm setting up camp. So I was really getting after it. And I was like, ah, I don't feel too good, feeling swimmy headed and everything.

And I went over and told the guys, I was like, Hey, I'm going down to Springerville, which was at 8,000 feet. And spend the night down there and then I'll come back up in the morning. They say, once you get over, I'll listen to a few podcasts on altitude sickness. And they say, you gotta get, you gotta get down to 8,000 feet or below as fast as you can.

Okay. So that was huge. I spent the night in Springerville in some little ratty motel and went back up on the mountain the next day. And I was fine the rest of the time. But coming out here at this [00:05:00] elevation, this hadn't bothered me. Yeah, with just actual altitude sickness has never really gotten me.

My problem is just the simple day-to-day type stuff. We moved out here, I forgot my shoes downstairs or something, and I ran downstairs, grabbed my shoes, ran upstairs and bent over real quick to just pop 'em on, just pull on boots and you passed out. You know how like sometimes when you hunch over, sometimes when you hunch over to do your shoes, you like, you might hold your breath for just a second, yeah. And after running down the stairs, running up the stairs and then holding my breath, I went to stand up and I almost You go down, went out. It was almost over for me yeah. Yeah. It's crazy stuff. Yeah, ma'am. We got a heck of a show this week. Yeah. I don't know if people haven't heard of this guy, then they must be living under a rock or something, but we managed, and this was through Anthony Pace with Freedom Hunters. Jim Shockey is our guest for this show. That's right. And Chad, I'm glad that you're riding shotgun here with me. In the intro on this thing in the [00:06:00] outro, we'll discuss a few things after the interview. But so Anthony Pace with Freedom Hunters Jim Shockey sponsors.

The Bear Hunt that Seth just went on was a Jim Shockey sponsored Hunt. That's right. That's right. Which was epic. And then they have the Gym Shockey Classic, which is a golf tournament, live auction, all that stuff that raises money for freedom hunters. And and again, if in case you've been living under a rock, freedom Hunters is one of our good friends.

We coordinate all of their hound hunting adventures there for freedom hunters, where we take America's warriors, our veterans Gold Star family members. Even active duty military and deployed on hound hunting adventures. They do all kinds of other stuff over there. They do shooting and pheasant hunting and mule deer and elk and all kinds of stuff.

But that's what Freedom Hunters is. And Anthony helped us line this up. That's [00:07:00] pretty cool. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, he knows he Anthony takes good care of us, that's for sure. Thanks Anthony for this one. If you haven't checked out Freedom Hunters, you can find 'em on our website by going to hounds xp.com.

Click on our partners tab and they're right there. Check out Freedom Hunters. It is the time of the year to start making plans for the fall for those outdoor adventures. For and veteran. Take a veteran. You won't have it. We're both veterans, aren't we? Who wants to take us hunting? Chad, there you go.

I wanna go. I'll take you hunting. You take me hunting. That might be what we have to do, man. Hey. But yeah, check out Seth's stuff. That's the quality type hunts you're going on. He'll be doing a show on that here pretty soon. I'm sure oh, I think it drops at the end of this week.

There we go. There we go. That sounds right. I gotta look at the schedule, but I think it's coming out Friday about the all mixed up is coming out Friday. So you're getting double mic time this week, right? Yeah, we haven't scheduled that yet, but Oh my [00:08:00] gosh. You guys better get on it. Yeah, we'll get on it.

We'll get on it. Hell hee is gonna be sending nasty grams. But I mean that, like you, by the time this comes out, that'll be right behind it. If you're interested though, check out like how many bears they get on and what kind and quality of dog, it just, it seems like an adventure. If that's the kind of stuff they show Seth, imagine what they're showing our, our veterans and stuff.

So I think that'd be pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. So what'd you think about the do we wanna follow up? Let's do a follow up. Let's recap, but let's get right into this Jim Shockey interview. The guy's been in the business for six, almost 60 years. Yeah. He's seen everything in the hunting industry.

He's traveled around the world, hunted all over the place, Africa, Asia central America. He's been on several hound hunts and he talks about those in this interview. So we say, we just get it right into it. Chad, let's get it. I think that [00:09:00] sounds fantastic. Let's get it all right.

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Welcome to the Hounds my XP podcast. Jim, I really appreciate you taking time outta your busy schedule. You're a busy guy. You always have been. And thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah it's my pleasure. Yeah. Bus busy's, one way to put it. Trying to live about four lifetimes in this one lifetime we're given.

That's been my goal since day one. Yeah. And I think that you've you're only trying to live four cause it looks like it's about, half a dozen to 10 maybe. Yeah. I also try and avoid sleeping, so I figured that doubles the four, so probably at least eight. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you, I'd really like to hear your your background.

You've done all kinds of hunting across the world, made TV shows about it. Everybody knows who you are, Jim, and we talk about hound hunting. I, have you ever had much experience with hunting with hounds? I've had a lot of experience. Obviously more than the average hunter out there, but yeah, but I'm [00:11:00] not I definitely don't call myself a hounds man, and that that's the next level stuff.

But I sure have appreciated the opportunities I've had to hunt with actual hounds men. And their hounds. It's yeah, I'm a big fan of it. I, a lot of people might foo at any hunters, which is ridiculous but to see a hounds man work with his hounds is like I say that, that's just next level stuff.

I've got my dog at my feet, but that's not a hound. And it certainly isn't trained like hounds and isn't a work dog like, like the hounds man's dogs. So yeah, I, I've had a, back to your question, I've. I've had a fair bit of it ar around the world actually. Not just in North America.

Yeah. What's the what's, what would make you make a statement like that as Hounds man? I think most of us, we all want to identify as Hounds man, but the very few of us really achieve that upper echelon where in my mind and the way I've always defined, if somebody else is telling me that, [00:12:00] another person says that guy's a real hounds man, it always is a moniker or a title that comes from one's peers more, it means more than when somebody jumps up and says I'm a, but if their peers are saying no, that guy's a homan.

So what have you seen that, that makes you say that's next level stuff? I I'll answer that in a second. I, but just wanna say, when you're talking about that being recognized by your peers, I. There's a scene in the movie, A Beautiful Mind, I think Russell Cole was playing a fellow that had demons, yeah. He was I, I'm not sure the clinical term for it, and it was a movie obviously but in the end, all his peers came up and put their pen on his desk in front of him, and that was their recognition of his beautiful mind. Yeah. And that, back to what you said, that means something when your peers designate you Hounds, man, that truly is, I think, the greatest respect they can pay for you [00:13:00] when you aspire to be a Hounds man.

And for me, I recognize that I'm not a Hounds man. So I technically not even a peer, but I also am happy to. Oh, thank you. Really appreciate that. The someone just brought me my coffee. I've been running a little bit late this morning. So I appreciate the skills that are involved in being a Hounds as a hunter.

So that's me giving my pen to Hounds, man, all of you. It's my way of saying, hey, total respect for what you guys do. The the what makes a great hounds, man? There's a fellow Rocky McBride, he's originally from Texas and I've hunted with him down in Paraguay.

He's got a big ranch down there and his son Caleb, they are the quintessential hounds man. They know their dogs, they they care for their dogs. They're they're like this with their dogs. We were down in Paraguay. Darting Jaguars and jaguars are not,[00:14:00] that, that's not like trying to tree a mountain lion.

No. There's bad mountain lions, but there's far more bad actors in the Jaguar world. You bet. Than when we were talking. Yeah. I was down with them several times. And when, after several jaguars, the the last time I went, it was a big cat. And we're just darting 'em. We're not, it's not legal to kill 'em.

We're darting them, putting GPS collars on them. But you could actually follow online, see where the jaguar, where they moved. But the, he set the hounds on 'em. And these are hounds that you, as Hounds men know how much training it takes and how much of your life went into making these hounds to the put, bring 'em to the level They are.

He set those dogs. I think there were six of the dogs and four were killed within the minutes. And they knew and the. The depth of the sorrow that I saw in Rocky McBride's eyes and Caleb's eyes, his son Caleb, that, that sorrow [00:15:00] you can't imagine because imagination doesn't live at those depths of sorrow.

And the, by the same token, someone else will say why did you put the dogs on the Jaguar? Because we were darting 'em. That was the dog's job, the Hounds job. And so there's also a, an understanding that, you know, that's the life and the death of the hounds, of us, of everything is, lip against death, against lip against death.

That they, the Hounds one, I think have a true understanding of that. And I saw that with Rocky, and I've seen that with other, Hounds been that I've had the good fortune and the honor to, to hunt with now, never at that level where the cat basically killed four of the six dogs. That's a bad day. So it's not Yeah. That's a bad day. And that's, years of training went into those dogs and it just was a bad day. And you can't, it happens and Sure. And if you don't, if you don't do it, I say if you can, if you sit at home on your couch [00:16:00] worrying about what might happen, nothing ever will.

Exactly. You just won't live. And so you've gotta let the hounds do their job and do your job, and you train them and you, that's a measure of the risk. It's an objective danger that, without it you didn't, you sat on your couch and didn't, you're just worried that you didn't do anything.

So again, hounds man to me is someone that has that special connection with. They're hounds and they just become one. And I've seen it over and over around the world. That's a pretty big endorsement coming from you, Jim. And we real, we need a lot more people that are at the level that you're at.

If there is anybody that, that can bridge that gap, it seems like there's so many fragmentations in our hunting community and gaps in there where people wanna identify and they wanna be out. I'm a, I'm an elk hunter. I'm a deer hunter. I'm a, and then, and I'm a trapper. I'm a hounds man.

And at the root of that, [00:17:00] it's really ripping us apart as a hunting community and makes us extremely vulnerable in this day and age. It's, it's such a classic, what is it? Divided. We fall. How did we stand? It's just classic and it, to me it's absurd. It is hypocrisy when I'll use an analogy. I've used it before, but it's like a three toed dinosaur looking at a four toed dinosaur as the comet's coming up the earth and saying I am far more evolved than you because I've got three toes, so I'm gonna survive this. And you've got four toes. You're a dinosaur, you're all dinosaurs.

And that comment's coming at all dinosaurs. It doesn't matter. It we're, so why are we pointing at three toes, four toes? It doesn't it's keeping us, our focus inwards instead of what it needs to be is outwards. Yeah. And dividing. I'm an elk hunter. I'm a traditional bow hunter. I'm a traditional muzzle.

Or, there you go.[00:18:00] When I was doing inline muzzle loading. You're not a real true muzzle. Wait a minute. You know I use a hundred. Yeah. I shoot a Flint log, Jim, I shoot a Flint log. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. So we should be, we should hate each other. We should be divided instead of standing united.

Oh even, I'll tell you, even, I only, I've had this it was general Chuck Yeager actually, I'm going back in time and bless him. He's a, he is a hero, truly always was a hero of mine. And I, someone had invited him bear hunting up in our opening territory. And he, and general Chuck said he is an interesting guy.

We, we got along good over the years and he said I'm never gonna hunt a bear cuz I only kill what I eat. Okay. I get it. And that's fair enough. That's your choice. And he never, to be fair, he never said that he know out to the grid. He was just him and I talking about that. But, I see it nowadays where people, I only kill what I eat and I only eat what I kill. And that gets 'em out of a [00:19:00] conversation in a cocktail party. You're a hunter. That's bad. Yeah, but I only eat what I kill and I kill what I eat. That then that suddenly that's okay because the vast majority of the people out there, they hate the idea of trophy hunting.

You, you kill an animal, cut its head off. But as soon as you say, no, I eat the meat, that's, it's organic meat. I it gets you out of an argument. They love it. They go, okay, they may not do it themselves, but they understand that, oh, you're good then. But when you do that, you're throwing all the other hunters under the bus.

So you're saying the hunter that travels down to Mexico to hunt cos deer is, he's a trophy hunter because he is going all that way. He can't be doing it for meat. That's right. And in today's world, there's very few of us. Need to ha to hunt for subsistence. There's some, I have many friends up in the new communities and First Nations communities and there's people that, you know, colonists that came in after contact, right?

That still hunt for subsistence, but that number's very low. So that [00:20:00] the problem with, I only do this and I only do that and I do it this way and I do it that way. I use a bow and arrow, he use a rifle. So I'm, from the outside, people look in and say, oh, okay, so even they think it's bad if you use a rifle.

The vast majority of out there and it divides us. Yeah, I'm not a, I don't have a lot of tolerance and I try and be a tolerant person, but I don't have a lot of tolerance When hunters attack other hunters because of the way they hunt, I am more ethical. I'm this.

So I, I think it's hypocrisy and we don't need that. We need to be united and stand as a block. It's much, much stronger. You covered a lot of ground there and we've got a limited amount of time here. But I, this thought came to mind, and this is something we do on this podcast a lot. We talk about the narrative and keep and having control of the narrative for who we are and what we do.

And that narrative has been hijacked by people that, that wanted to seize control or policymakers to influence [00:21:00] policymakers and things like that. So you take it back to the person you talked about getting a person out of an argument at a cocktail party that's simply given up.

That's a capitulation to the other side because the person hasn't actually. Contemplated considered and developed the narrative and understood the whole picture that it takes to defend hunting and the, and define the values of hunting. It goes beyond providing food, especially in the 21st century.

It's much easier to, go to the grocery store and buy stuff than it is to go out and gather your own wild food in some of the places that you've done. It is, it's much easier for me to write a check at the grocery store than to go where hunters go to do what they do.

And. And so that's one thought that came to my mind. We've gotta control that narrative. And you can't just [00:22:00] capitulate, you just can't stop and say, oh, I'm against trophy hunting, because it's the new thing to say. And it gets you off the hook with some of your friends that might be on the fence about hunting.

You gotta be able to talk about it, why it's important why we're hunters, and why we, what value we bring to the table. I agree a hundred percent. And I, I've had this, similar discussions about this. I we cannot we have to go beyond the meat side of it, and when we control the narrative, when you're talking you said it in a way, but what it really is what does honey mean for all of us?

And what will stand withstand. The attacks and withstand the forces that are against us. And that's the spirituality of it. Yes. That's why we all do it because it's good for our souls. It puts us in touch with our ancestral soul. And when you talk about terms like that, now you're at a [00:23:00] level here as opposed to people looking down at you.

Now they're going, getting in touch with your ancestral soul. Okay. I get that, like I'm dissatisfied with my life sitting in my ivory tower on the 23rd floor. That becomes a tomb when there's a pathogen around that, that like covid, whatever covid does. And that's not the big one.

When the big one comes. Those are tombs. Those are 23 stories of tombs. It doesn't matter if you've got the penthouse suite, the hounds men, the hunters, the field table, livers, farm to table. People that live those lifestyles, those aren't tombs. Those are freedom to be out there in the wildland.

And these are now starting to be terms that people understand. But you got away from just, I hunt for meat. Come on, you said it right by every measure. It makes no sense economically time wise, what we do is not for meat. That's part of it. That's a part of it.

It's [00:24:00] like a part of hunting is the kill, but it's only this much of the kill. Yeah. The actual process, the comradery the traditions, the family, humor, adventure, that's what makes up the culture of these places we go to. And believe me, you can go to Louisiana and that's a different culture. Like it's, there's culture in North America within our own groups, so that's part of it no matter where we go. And to appreciate, to embed yourself with those cultures to understand, what those Mississippi Noodlers are. I think they call 'em hand grabbers or whatever they yeah. It's fascinating. And to do a crawfish boil and a catfish fry, yeah.

That, that's what hunting is all about. That's truly what hunting's all about. And when you say control the narratives, that's what we need to be doing is talking in those terms, not trophy hunting's bad. And it, the problem with getting into the conservation of it, [00:25:00] which is the science of it, is most people, you lose 'em, hunters are conservation, you've lost 'em already in the conversation, because it's science. But they do understand when they're feeling a little bit empty in their lives. At whatever job they're doing, lawyer, accountant, professional unprofessional. It doesn't matter, if they're feeling empty when you start talking in terms of I feel whole satisfied. I breathe fresh air and exercise and I'm healthy and healthy here.

Healthy in spirit. Yeah. People get that, that people understand that. And and plus you eat organic, green. That's the catchphrases nowadays. Yep. Huh. And I, and I'm not, I a cow is great. I'm all for it. Ranchers thank goodness for them, they're some of the greatest conservationists around.

They look after the wildlife. So it's not saying cow is bad and you have to go hunting as bad. No, it's just saying, it's basically [00:26:00] saying try and understand us. Try, take a moment and try and understand who we are. We're not l to spit on the floor with no higher sensibilities. We can actually articulate to a degree our feelings, which I think is back to the original problem.

The narrative. Not all of us are, can you know, it's not easy. We're hunters we're outdoors. We love living out there by ourselves, and we let people, we live and let live is part of our problem. Why do we have such a hard time? I saw a statistic the other day that my question is, why do we have a hard time bringing this hunting community?

And you've mentioned the ranching community all together, because I saw a figure the other day released from Sportsman's Alliance that was 407 million a day. Is what it averages out to be. 407 million per day being pumped into wildlife management, conservation, all of this [00:27:00] stuff With numbers like that, how are we still losing or have the perception that we're losing?

Because in my mind, our PR game needs to be different. We need to get that word out there. But why are other people allowed or are able to get a foothold in this conversation? That hunters are not contributing, or we're just taking it's, it is really simple. Bambi wouldn't have succeeded if Walt Disney would've talked about conservation, but bad news that sells for $2 Bambi's a success. Yeah. And that's the sa that formula has been working for the last 60 years. It's big business. The mainstream media is big business. Make no mistake. They, they're not giving you the news on both sides. They're giving you whatever news makes the money and bad news sells.

Listen to the news. Why do you think there people died here. People died there, there was this, [00:28:00] there's this, there, this happened. Tornadoes, hurricanes, floods. Why are they doing that? Because bad news sells for $2. Good news sells for $1. So that's why we don't have, that's how these people get their day in the sun and have for the last 60 years, is they've, they come in with a pa of bad news.

I, today, I just wrote a post. It'll be going out in the next few days. I post and or write the post up. And then they get scheduled in. And it was about a, and I'm digressing here, but it was. There was a haying, a tractor, hang our field and it's beautiful mountains.

There's a lake in the distance and it's, the dust coming up from the hay. And I said, there's two type of types of people in this world. One looks at this and I said, which one are you? And I said, the first type looks at this and said, loves to see the farmer harvesting. The hay loves the fact that it's a sultry late [00:29:00] spring fall and loves the smell of, or late spring day.

It loves the smell of fresh cut hay and the blue mountains and the silver lake. And I said, the second person looks at it and said, I hate the tractor because it's using fossil fuels. I hate Oh yeah. The fact that diesel smells and the noise pollution. I hate the fact that the farmer's cutting down grass that's been invaded and it is been introduced, it's invasive from Africa for his hay crop.

I, I hate. The silver because it's, the air pollution. I hate the blue because the mountains were logged, and I'm ashamed of being human. Or we're destroying this planet, and I, which one are you? So again, it's human nature. We just we tend to dwell on bad news and we're trying to tell good news story.

We're happy, we're hunters, we're spiritually sed, we have everything going for us. We understand family and tradition and morals and ethics and, that doesn't sell newspapers. And it doesn't [00:30:00] sell, it doesn't sell eyeballs on the news programming. So that's why we've lost control of the narrative.

We're just nice people. Yeah. And, nice people finished last, I guess in, in today's world for now. For now, but that, that's why you'll see, and both sides of me the novel I wrote because it, and I'm not trying to segue to the novel, but. I was gonna say, I was gonna spin off of this right into your novel because there's so much media out there that is against us, and you have written a new novel that's coming out shortly, and I wanted to talk to you about that novel.

If Good News sells for a dollar and Bad News sells for $2, is there a lot of bad news and Call Me Hunter? Yeah, that's a, that's a very interesting way of looking at it. Bad news sells for $2, so yes, there's bad news and Call Me Hunter, but it, who is the bad news about, [00:31:00] and th this is In Call Me Hunter.

It's a novel, it's a fictional thriller. I call it an abstract thriller because it's like cubism where, you know, an art form that the Picasso, where you know what you're looking at. But it's. Something's wrong here. What I did was I flipped all the stereotypes around and call me Hunter. And so yeah, there's bad news, but it's not about us. It's about the other side. And say, how does that feel? And the thing is the why I did it was again, people look at us like we're lats. We have no higher sensibilities. We can't articulate a sentence. And that's just not true.

We just don't bother because, why do we have to prove to you how we feel inside? The people seem to demand that nowadays. So what I did was I entered their world, that world that's outside of our world and they, you're an author, a novelist, that's a respected.

Tradition. It's an art. And you guys can't do art cause you're just [00:32:00] louds Yeah. You're just knuckle draggers killers out there on the landscape. Yeah. So when did you start Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. When did you start writing the novel? When did this project come to light? What did you, when did you say, Hey, I'm, I've hunted all over the world now I'm gonna write a book about it.

Yeah. It, I wrote the first basically chapter, the first page I wrote in about 1991 or 1993, somewhere in there. Wow. In 96 Media. Yeah. Some the, and I haven't changed it. Jovago is dead. I killed him. That's the opening lines. And then I wrote that. And so when did this come to, into My Mind was sitting on, in, in the bamboo rainforest of Ethiopia, waiting for a mountain yellow.

Sitting in a customs office in Russia waiting to get export permits for this or that, whatever it was. Sitting on a comic tick in the Arctic with my Inuit friends, with dogs ahead of me, looking for [00:33:00] Poland. Bear, I, this is when this novel, I wrote the novel doing that in my head.

I, in some ways it's like a prisoner where you're, you're there and, okay you can keep your mind going, you're bouncing across the tundra in this commentate for the next eight hours. You might as well keep your mind focused. So I did that and in 2016, I determined that 2019 October Mozambique would be my last international trip.

I would've, been there, done, I got the t-shirt, did what I needed to do for our museum or hand to man museum. And then, and that it was time to sit down and write that novel. I had a story to tell when I wrote it, started writing it back when I didn't have a story to tell. I hadn't lived enough to be able to tell a story.

How can you be a writer when you're 20 years old? You can be a talented, put words together, but tell me again what you're gonna write about. You haven't lived yet. Sure. You, you think you have a 20, you think you're the smartest person in the [00:34:00] world. But, it took me until I was, 60 before I felt I had a story that was worthy of telling.

And I could finish off the chapters that I started way back when, 25 years before. So I sat down and started writing in November of 2000 19 after that Mozambique trip, and then Covid hit and up here in Canada, they pretty well shut everything down. So I had nothing else to do anyway, so I, I just wrote and wrote the novel.

And I did it to be able to enter that world to be part of their world and say, wow, this is a good novel, but you can't write a good novel because you're, you. We just have to look at your, history and you can't possibly, you can't, so it's cognitive dissonance. They, I've got a stereotype of what you should be but you did this, which I respect, if but you've written it in a way that it twists all my stereotypes of what I believed you are and what I believe these people are.

And I did it on [00:35:00] purpose. I enter their world. And if it does if every hunter goes out and buys this book, even if they never read it, just give it to your aunt. Or it we, there the sales would be high enough to put it on the New York Times bestseller list. Now you've got a hunter with a number one bestselling book on the New York Times.

All these people are business people when they're in their ivory towers in New York City, wherever it is, they understand money and they're making money with number one bestsellers on the New York Times list. So yeah, they'll let Hunters write more novels, say, wow, there's a demand for this. Let's let them in.

And what happens? You change the narrative. You start controlling the narrative. I've flipped around the stereotypes. Yeah. The anti-hero is a hunter. The villain is an anti hunter an animal rightist. I flipped those around. It can't, the bad guys are always the hunters.

No, they're not always that. Absolutely. So I've just tried to do something that, [00:36:00] that mixes up their world. We know what we are, but they don't know what we are. So now they've, and if it does well, like I say, it'll open up the doors, the floodgates doors that have been closed to us since Hemingway and Rar.

60 years ago, doors that slam shut with Bambi and have really remained close to us to be able to tell our story. So if it does and Jack Carr, who wrote Terminal List and all these best sellers, that Jack started it really? He got the door open and look at the success.

So the, these guys with the money that are, that basically they, they decide where we're going with news and with mainstream media. They see that, holy cow, there's a demand for people to just tell it like it is. And we get away from the wokeness of the world out there.

Yeah. And there's a demand for it because now we have a, and we have a way to reach into that world and get a voice. [00:37:00] So that's what I'm hoping called me Hunter Legacy. I said nothing. We talked about Unity. If Hunters got together and bought this, and it's not for the money. I'm in our hand of man museum, which 17,000 square feet.

I don't know what it, the land, the building, the contents, it's millions of dollars and we're giving it all away. Louise and I, my, my wife, my soulmate of 39 years, we're giving it to a foundation. So it's not about the money we're giving everything away. It's about giving us a voice, doing what's right for hunters and changing the perception of hunting and hunters in mainstream media.

You brought up Jack Carr, and that is an example of what I've been talking about for a long time is, bringing hunting back to the mainstream conversation and showcasing, yeah, there's so much, there's so much stuff that, that gets hunting wrong. And then when we see people like you and Jack Carr, there's saying, wait a minute.

There's a story to be told here. You're not [00:38:00] telling it. We're gonna tell it the way it should be told. And that's such a valuable, an honorable thing for you to do, Jim. So let's, all the money is going to a foundation which funds your museum and what, tell us about that. Yeah. It's not, that's not quite right.

What I, okay. I started I had a vision for a museum when I was 10 years old. And I stayed on that course my entire life. I knew where I'd go people, I wanted to see the things, I wanted to gather together what I would want to see in a museum at 10 years of age. We lived in a trailer park when I was growing up.

We had no money, but I could get National Geographic from the library and I could say, I'm gonna go there, I'm gonna go there. I want this and do this. And it was pie in the sky because like I say, we had no money. But I, I left home at 17 per university And I just kept going. I traveled around 306 days a year on average for 20 years, and over 200 days a year before that, my life, I was a pereg coordinator and always with the intention of this museum, [00:39:00] the hunting was part of it to, you can't go buy those things for a museum, a natural history museum. How do you think those pieces get into the museum? You can't buy them. You've gotta go get them. And mostly museums will send out hunters to do their own, but then they're missing the point. They're not understanding the people, the hunter gatherers the communities that, that survive because of that.

They I don't know I, academics and the operatives in the field, never the twain shall mi mix. So there's no story there. And I thought, no, I'm gonna live it. I'm gonna go do it and gather these things for this museum. So my life's goal has been, To put this museum together. It's the Hand of man, museum of Natural History, cultural Arts and Conservation.

That's the education component of it. And it's like I say, 17,000 square feet packed. Everywhere you look, it's packed with things and natural history object, cultural OB and stories that go with them. We've done it all on iPads. We bought our children's old school, actually at Maple Bay [00:40:00] Elementary School in Maple Bay, British Columbia on Vancouver Island and converted it into this museum.

The the response has been incredible. We had over 26,000 visitors last year. Amazing. And we will hit over 30,000 this year. And we're not on a main drag. We're not on the highway. We're, you have to want to come here and see it. We get, there's no Norwegian cruise ship that docks outside and people no, that, no.

Exactly. We could probably cater to that audience as well, but I. I haven't gone there yet. I don't think we need to, I think word of mouth is gonna keep this place so busy, but, we get two to four classrooms a week through here. Children that are seeing real things. They can go this close to a polar bear, that's mounted well.

You can see one in a zoo too. And, you know the animal's in a zoo and you've gotta be far away and it's cages and, but here they can go right up to it and it's not on a screen, a digital screen. They can actually get a perspective on it. There's a whole room, century [00:41:00] safari room where they can touch all, everything, all the hides and whatnot.

And the response has been unbelievable. Google it, the handyman museum and look at the reviews. We you're gonna get the loud vociferous one in a thousand. We keep track and they are loud and they're gonna make sure. Their voice is heard. And that's so 26 a year and usually it'll be two or three of 'em together that are.

Just want to hate, hate and hate your whole life is, it's gotta be an ugly life to be so shamed. But it's what we're doing. And back to the question that it's donation only. So access to this museum is donation. Like I said, I grew up in a trailer park. If it was $1 admission, I could not have come in.

But if it was donation, I could have brought a grasshopper, a pretty rock, a seashell look at, Hey, Mr. Curator, look what I brought you today. I would've been a curator's nightmare. I lived in here, so it's always gonna be donation only. And what my wife were doing, we created a foundation to put the land, the [00:42:00] building, all the contents, everything that's in here into that foundation and an endowment to cover expenses for 40 years.

Wow. So that's the goal. And we've, it's been a year and a half of working on this now. I just signed all the board of directors. Whatever we have to sign off. Lawyers. It's astounding how much you have to spend to give things away. So it's gonna be a hundred thousand, $150,000 to, to give all this, we're giving it away.

I don't care about the tax write offs. It's not, you gotta make money for tax write offs and and I, I'm not worried about that. So that's what we're doing. And the proceeds from the book that'll go, that'll be, it goes into the pot. If there's any proceeds right now it's about a dollar 50 an hour.

It's working out too. So there's not a whole bunch of proceeds yet. When my, I It's what I was gonna ask you, when the book come, when does the book come out? Jim you can Google call me Hunter right now and pre-order it. Okay. And it's on Amazon and it's [00:43:00] on chapters Barnes and Noble. They're all selling it.

And it'll be on audio books too. We just worked out the other day. Who's going to be doing the reading of it? I'm gonna actually read the second person perspectives. It's, and it's complicated novel stuff. Sure. But I'm gonna read those. But the body of the novel will, the other 80% will be Scott Brick, who does all the Clive Kutner novels.

I had to go to the mattresses to get that. They wanted seven different readers and actresses and actors to play. It's a big deal. They're these guys, they're planning to print 125,000 copies of it. Wow. But if you Google Call Me Hunter right now, you can pre-order it and that way you'll get a copy for sure as soon as it comes out.

October 17th, I believe, is the release date. When it'll be in the bookstores. And, but to be sure to get a copy that's the way to do it, is to pre-order it. Right now, I think on Amazon is what. Oh, I was just gonna say, I'll make sure I get that get a link from your folks [00:44:00] to put in these show notes.

Sure. Yeah. That's above my pay grade. Yeah. I'm not sure what a link or an app is, but whatever. I've got good people here that are really smart. They can make that happen. Yeah. But yeah, sure. And again, pre-orders kind of determine where it sits on the New York Times bestseller list. Enough pre-orders. You move that needle and that, that's what we need to do. I would love every Hunter to go, buy 10 copies and believe me, I'm not making tons of money on 10 copies. It's not about the money. It's about giving us a voice and supporting something that it gives, we have an entrance into that world right now, and if we do it right, then I have to be on talk shows.

I have to have, they have to give me a voice and I'm happy. Let's talk about hunting. Let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah. I think it's such a valuable thing if we can move the needle with works like this it's gonna be huge for the things that we're most passionate about, the thing we've put our, our [00:45:00] financial and our spiritual investments in our whole lives as hunters.

So kudos to you, Jim. I can't think of another guy that, that would be more qualified to write this book. I can't wait to read it. Like I say, you, it's a thriller. It's a fictional thriller, but there's a lot of truth in it. It's I didn't have to make up a whole bunch, like I said, but I had a story to tell.

It was and that, that's my story. Yep. Jim, I know you're a busy guy and I appreciate you carving out this time outta your schedule to to talk to me and. And talk to our audience. And do you have any closing words of wisdom for my audience before we wrap this up? It I would say never apologize.

You you know who you are. You know what you stand for. And anyone that's not a hounds man out there that's listening to this, try a little tolerance and yeah. They might run by your stand on your stand in some state [00:46:00] who, you know, who knows. But we're all kindred spirits and we need to stand united and just tolerate each other.

Understand. At least, and accept and that'll make us stronger as a whole. But we have to be a whole, if we're divided, we can't there's absolutely no way we will, we'll be around in a hundred years. So united, we have to be united. Thank you Jim. Appreciate your time and hope we can talk again soon.

I could talk to you for hours, that's for sure. We just scratched the surface. Yeah, I can blabber for hours too, so be careful what you wish for. Hey, one thing I'll thank, one thing I'll add. And I wanna thank you for something else too. Right now as we're recording this Seth Hall from Hound, the Homan XP team is actually in British Columbia, participating in a gym Shockey tribute hunt, bear Hunt right now with some veterans.

Wow. Yeah. Military veterans from the uni I'm not sure if they're from the United States or from Canada, but [00:47:00] So you're affecting our world in a great way. We do our best. It's never enough. And the veterans, we're all here with our freedoms because of them.

So I do my, everything I can. It's never enough, like I say, but I do my best. And we have our charity golf event every year down in South Carolina. Yes. And Raise. We've raised, it's getting upwards close to a million dollars now for, to take veterans of the armed forces on all expense paid hunts yeah.

And outdoor adventures. So that's, I love it. Love to hear that it's making a difference. And I promise I'll keep doing that with every ounce of energy that I have. Thanks Jim. Appreciate you a lot. Thanks for everything you've done for Hunters and keep up the good work promise. I will. Thanks for having me on.

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And at checkout. Enter the promo code [00:49:00] H X P 20 and you will get 20% off of your OnX subscription. Know where you stand with OnX. All right, so there you have it folks. Jim Shockey, the one and only. The man. There it is, man. I'll tell you that. He's just so well spoken. When you have done Bennett in the business, as long as he has he just, he's got such a great message for hunters and hunting.

Yeah. And the book sounds good, I'm excited about it. But like you're saying, he smooth, smooth has an agenda and gets his point across, yeah. In the thick of it. So Yeah. I enjoy listening to him talk about hunting, he, he talked about hunting with Rocky McBride and Jaguar in Central America. And it wa it wasn't really a hunt, it was more of a conservation study. Yeah. And Rocky's still involved in that. I really liked his message about the united front of hunters. All of us coming [00:50:00] together. Yeah. I, we all need to do that. And I think every single venue that I've been a part of is guilty of it in some fashion.

Not all of them, you know what I'm saying? But for example, I have some falconer friends that don't, they're like isn't hound hunting kind of harassment? I'm like yeah. Almost as much like harassment as it is to take a wild bird out of this, out of the wild and go hunting with it, buddy.

And then I got, and then I've had a hound hunter buddy of mine before I go, I just I just to leave wild animals alone, I don't wanna, what are you talking about? Can you say that while you're standing underneath the tree? So I'm not gonna point the finger at any one group but a fellow like me that's I won't call myself an expert at any one venue, but I've had my hands in just about all of them and been like, mildly confident at each.

But I've seen it, like we, we do, we chew each other up. Yeah, for sure. And when we should be defending each other at all costs, we get tribalistic. Even if you look at the just the hound hunting community, you've got plot guys, you got redone guys, you got, grade dog guys [00:51:00] versus registered dog.

We, and I think, isn't that kind of normal though, in life, in the human spirit to be you're drawn to, to like-minded people and you're still, we've all got a competitive edge at some point. Yeah. I agree with that. Like you're, let's just take lots and walkers, they're gonna, they're gonna nip at each other's flanks a little bit and, and some of that playful, competitive just the Marines and the army, are gonna Exactly. Gonna pick at each other a whole but there's really no. Nobody to lose in either of those, it's preference and everybody's accomplishing something.

But I feel when we do that at different types of hunting, if like the still hunters are after the hounds men or the hounds men are after the trappers or whatever, there's somebody's losing and it's all of us. And it's all of us. It's not that playful banter anymore. At that point.

We're, you're crippling hunting and that's what all of us are trying to [00:52:00] do and pr protect for our grandchildren. And further, I think a lot of it comes because people just haven't taken the time to understand the different types of hunting. And so they haven't developed a narrative on how to, talk about their specific specialty.

Say you're a deer hunter, they haven't spent the time. To understand how to talk about their love and passion and really lay that out without throwing it under the bus. Somebody else under the bus, it's I'm a deer hunter and I'm not like those trappers, or I'm a deer hunter and I'm not like this group.

It, it's a deal where it's easier to attack somebody and especially when you're being attacked, than it is just to spend time and develop your own narrative and just be able to defend what you do and your passion and your lifestyle on its own merits. Yeah. And all of us could, every venue it's [00:53:00] just, you could even go outside of Huntington.

Any, anything else. It doesn't any kinda hobby, sport, venue, whatever, but we're just gonna break it down to hunting cuz that's what we all like to talk about here, but Right. Even the still hunters, there's ways of. Oh, existing. Yeah, that's what we need to do, period. But there's like everybody says oh the hound hunting, all you do is dump your dogs and then walk to the tree.

I imagine somebody could do that under like ideal circumstances, but most of the time we're out there with our nose down in the dirt trying to find out what kind of track this is. Is this, is this old? Are we going the right way? I've been doing this that all week. Yeah, it's like huffing alcu powder.

You got dust in your nose, right? Yeah. But then at the same time, but then sometimes again, I'm not pointing the finger at any group. I'm just giving comparisons for everybody. But I knew it was still hunter back in Louisiana when I was hog hunting all the time. And he was like, oh, your hog dog's get in the way of my deer.

And this was the same person that would take, every day he would take a five gallon bucket and fill it up with [00:54:00] corn, a half bag, 25 pounds of corn and put it out on the corner. Next to his blind, and the deer would have to stick its head into the five gallon bucket to eat. My five-year-old daughter could blow a deer away from 30 yards with his head in a bucket.

You know what I'm saying? Everybody's got, the folks that are gonna do it the wrong way. It's just what is the community trying to promote? What standards are we trying to set as hound men and as still deer, deer, hunters, and they wouldn't hang that up. They wouldn't say that.

That's hunting, shooting deer. What do you think, what do you think about what Shockey had to say about it though? He went in pretty deep about unity. My favorite thing that he said, and I will admit that I'm even guilty of this sometimes, In order to prevent an argument.

Sometimes, like you're out somewhere, you might be, at some dinner, whatever. I don't really do this very much, but my, my biggest thing I guess would be like taking my daughter to swim class or something like that. Like, all right, we gotta teach you how to swim. And I'm over there Hey man, I heard you hunt hounds.

Oh yeah. We air check this out, look at these pictures, [00:55:00] and I'll show 'em what I got, I'm excited about it. I always love showing off. I'm proud of my dogs, yeah. And they're all into it. And then somebody next to it look over and oh, so you treat lion, huh?

You, you shoot lions? And I'm like, yeah. And I eat 'em too. And, but, and it's just to shut 'em up as fast as possible. And Jim got into using that, that as a, what you're doing is you're leaving the rest of our hunting, brother and sisters a abandoned their, you don't need to eat it.

Specifically lion. I know I'm probably the odd man out there, but bear or deer or whatever we've been eating lion this week. It's good, ain't it? It's a little lean. It's like pork, it's like less salty pork. A little leaner. Yep. Yep. And depending on what they're eating too, but I really like that about 'em, and I've been guilty of that before when I'm just trying to get that person off my back, you know what I'm saying?

I don't wanna debate here, and make a scene. This is about my daughter's swimming class. Let me shut this guy up, and it's the truth. It may be easy. How should you, how should you handle that? The generally, if you really wanna do it the right way, you gotta prepare for a talk, [00:56:00] explain, for example and around me it's easy for, it's easy for me, because that's what we do on this podcast, that's what we do is by producing this podcast, is talk about why we do what we do.

So I spend a lot of time going down the road thinking about different things and aspects of white. Especially, why the heck do I produce a podcast? There's a lot of that going on, but all the money. Oh, you bet. Yeah. I'm squatting out here on, in Shorty's house on the ranch. I won't even tell You'all this stuff we've done this week.

But anyway, yeah. So I think we, we have time to reflect, and I know not everybody is a wordsmith. I'm certainly not, I stumble and fumble around and stuff, but you have to be prepared to answer that question. And you've got plenty of time to do it. As homan, we always have [00:57:00] plenty of time to develop that narrative if you just stop and think about it.

I love, one of the things that we've done in the past is asking people, why do you love Don? What is your why Heath produces show. What is your why? Just think about it, develop the narrative. That way when you get ambushed the next time, it's, you can at least give a non hateful answer to it.

There's a chance, there's always a chance you can tell pretty quick on who you're talking to, if they're just trying to insult you or, yeah. They have an open mind, but an ignorant mind, an ignorants, not stupid, they're just uneducated in the field, so you can tell pretty quick what it is, and if they're wrong, then just politely deflect, but if they're kind that could, you think they're receptive to being educated on it. There's all kinds of stuff to bring up. Like for example, out here when a tracking collar goes off that they use to to collect data on bears and lions, and they want to know, Where they're going, how they're doing so that they can protect [00:58:00] these lands.

This is important. The diet and, making sure the public property doesn't get sold off. This is important. They use all this data, they gotta know where the bears and lions go to know, where they have to protect them, what they have to do. So that's fine. And when those collars goes off, guess what?

I get phone calls. Let's go find that rascal. Yeah. When they get a game camera, like one of the trappers, here you go. How about we tie it all in the bait hunters, the still bear and lion bait hunters that I've heard of. When they see a bear or a lion on their camera with a collar, or they'll check in and be like, Hey, I got, I got a, I got one of these predators here with a collar on it.

And they're like, oh, shoot. That must be the one that turned off. We lost track of that one. We need to get the collar back on 'em. And they're like, Hey Chad, get your dogs. He was here. Let's go out tomorrow morning. That's really cool for me cuz I'm hunting outta season. And then I'll get to go over and watching 'em do what they do is really neat.

Where they drank 'em and lower 'em down and put the collar back on 'em and, oh, couldn't have done that or it would've been really hard without hounds or, I could go on for a while with a bunch of other stuff. Another one is when they have a lot of human bear encounters, where they keep coming in [00:59:00] and knocking over trash cans and stuff. Yeah. They'll say, Hey C come on out tree. I want, the biologist wants to know where, when, what, where do you go to tree and all that stuff. And you're not allowed to shoot it. Of course, but I'm just wanting to tree it anyway.

Take some pictures and enjoy the ride. And then now that bear does not like dogs. Now that bear does not like humans and it knows that it got its butt whipped. When it was too close to town. So yeah. Hazing them. Hazing 'em away. Yeah. One of the pla one of the ways you can save yourself a lot of trouble and a lot of time cuz there's nothing, you've heard the old saying, there's nothing like wrestling with a pig, are No, I'm sorry.

Don't ever argue with a fool cuz they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. That's one thing I always keep in mind. Yeah. The other is arguing with an anti hunter is like wrestling with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it. Pretty much. Yeah. So here's my solution to dealing with those people.

You're at the daughter's swim meet, you're looking at pictures with a buddy and somebody sticks their nose in [01:00:00] your over your shoulder and it's oh, you hunt mountain lions with hounds. Yep. And then they start in on their questions. I ask questions back. It's have you ever done it?

No, I would never do it. Do you enjoy looking at wildlife? Yes. Okay. Do you know anything about the North American model for wildlife conservation? No. Do you want to know? Do you want to know the truth? And if they say no, then the conversation's over took 10 seconds. Conversation's over. I wasn't rude. I like it.

There you go. If they say yes, if they say yes, and it's let me tell you a few things. Lemme tell you all the values that Hounds men add to wildlife management the wildlife that you like to drive out into the national park in your Subaru and take a gander out and get your picture taken standing next to her grizzly bear before you get eight or that bison, flipping you over the hood of your Subaru.

And I can say that I'm a Subaru owner. I'm a proud [01:01:00] Subaru owner. Amazing. Is that right? In the state of Indiana? It's a 2011 Forester. It's got Safari Club International stickers and all kinds of stuff on the back. That would definitely cause some confusion out here. I would doesn't it? They wouldn't know what to think, it's like Josh and Jason Whitaker, I sent 'em pictures and they were like you're just trying to piss everybody off. Yeah. I saw one of the funniest things up and up pretty far north of me. It was a Prius and on the back of it was a big old bumper sticker. It says, I save on gas so I could buy more guns, oh yeah. I was like, yeah, man, I gotta get one of those man's got a point, man's got a point, hey, let's we don't wanna make this show about us. It was about Jim. It was about Jim. But we've gotta find all the allies we can. It's great to know that a guy like Jim Shockey with his much bandwidth and reach is on our team.

He is, he's supports us. And you can support him by watching for that [01:02:00] book to drop and purchasing his book. And then he's going to use that money, like he said, that goes back into his museum and different stuff like that. So he is going, he's gonna put that money to good work.

That's right. Call me Hunter. Yes. Call me Hunter. Is the name of the book By, by Jim Shockey. Expected around October of 2023. Yep. Yep. That's all I've got. Chad, you got anything we need to add before we wrap it up? Not so much. Not so much. Nothing's gonna, we're gonna be able to burn through in just a little bit of time.

I, I, man, I'll tell you what, I come out here every year and you think you're, this is the year that everything's gonna go smooth. Get out here and the dogs are all sore footed already. And, ah, man, it's tough, especially down in this northern New Mexico country. It's all volcanic composite, some kind of weird geological stuff that I don't know anything about.

Yeah, you probably have the igneous and the sedimentary rock over there. So the, like the sandstone looking stuff and look at you and the volcanic rock. [01:03:00] Look at you. On geology. Yeah. I just, every now and then I hit Seth with a stick and these fancy words just fall out of him and then I pick him up and carry him around with me a little bit, oh, that's great, man. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. But it will chew up the feet. Everybody likes to say one's worse than the other. I think they're worse for different reasons, yeah. But both of 'em tear pads to pieces. I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you one right here, and I think this is part of it.

Two of my dogs, two of my dogs are sore foot, one is not. And it's the blue tick male. And the blue tick male is tied out on gravel. He's got a gravel base that's the best. So all day long he's on gravel. The two plots are in a wood, have been in a my kennel, which has got a wood deck boor board floor.

And that has got to be it. He's not tough. The terrier, my yard not sore footed Indy, the blue tick, not sore footed. The two plots I've been treating their feet all week. I swear by it. I think gravel is the [01:04:00] best base for feet. Cuz like out here I got a lot of ground that's like rock hard.

It's like a skillet, yeah. And then that's good for when they're, if they're running on only slick rock, they do great. The pads that rock hard and they do just fine. But if they, when they get off the slick route and get in the grass now that piece of iron that's on the bottom of their foot starts having to bend in the soft grass and then they get cracks and it comes apart.

And then my dogs that are in the soft stuff, as soon as there's are plenty pliable. That now, but then when they get on the slick rock it's too pliable. So it pokes 'em and bends, and like they get all the scuffs and blisters and, and it's just not hard enough.

So I think gravel's the best because it's hard, yet it continues to flex so they don't get flat hard callouses, so that gravel gets up there even in the webbing. That's the other thing. It actually gets in the webbing where I don't think there's another surface that does that. When I get home, when I get home, I'm building a dog yard and I'm gonna have carousels.

And they're gonna, they're gonna all have gravel on a gravel apron. And I've got plenty of creek rock there at the house. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna build a dog yard and I'm [01:05:00] gonna get these dogs off that wood wooden plank. It's the ticket. I'm telling you. I'm and paws are protected.

Yep. Seriously. That's right. I love that stuff. I love that stuff. It's kept me outing all week. Really? It has, especially if you get ahead of it. I'm sure you're guilty just like the rest of it. You wait until you got a problem. Yeah. I got outta here last week. Last week I was thinking I had to start rubbing some paws cuz I was roding dogs and doing stuff, different stuff like that.

And I was roading them and, but we still don't have the gravel. It's just, you can't do it back there and get their feet toughened up. So I was thinking, yeah. I had to rub some paws or protect it on it and it's I'll start next tomorrow and tomorrow never came. And then here I am in New Mexico.

One good bear. One, one good one good bear trash race. Cause we did get on a bear, we're trying to hunt mountain lions and the trashy plots caught a bear. And one afternoon ODing and they were shot. It was like, eh, so now, [01:06:00] yep. Depending on where you keep your food. What I do to force myself.

I keep my food and pickle barrels, the kind you can spin with a little gasket top, it's like a little, I think mine are like 45 gallon drums or whatever, but they got the little spin top with a gasket on it. And I got a few different types of food. But I'll take it and put it in like a Ziploc bag or even like a plastic grocery bag if you can still find those these days.

But just throw it right on top of the kibble. So you gotta move it out of the way to feed your dogs, and if I put it somewhere, I'm gonna forget about it, but if I put it on top of the dog food, it generally gets put on there. Yep. For sure. And I'm also using the dogs arche tree tie out, which is awesome this week.

Yeah, those are cool. Hey man, I'll tell you what, we better wrap this up and get this one in the bank. So I didn't, I, I want to thank, I wanna give a shout out to everybody. The response to our merchandise and our store. We launched in May and mid-May and to [01:07:00] mid-June. Thank you. Thank you to everybody who's purchased Homan XP, merchandise and rep and the brand, especially the Fair Chase t-shirt.

Yeah, fair Chase decals. That is the message. It is crucial. It's gonna be the battleground for the future of hound hunting, of whether or not it's fair chase. So thank you for purchasing those items. We've got other stuff there. We've got tumblers, we've got knife sheaths, we've got pool hats, we've got embroidered hats.

We've got leather patch caps. Check it out. You can check it all out@homanxp.com. Hit the shop tab and fill your card up. We'd love you. We'd love you for it. Yep. I think that does it, doesn't it, Chad? It does, bud. That was a good one. All right. All right hey, thanks for tuning into the Hounds of NP podcast.

This is fair Chase.[01:08:00]