Battleground 2024 - Colorado

Show Notes

There will be no more important fight in 2024 in your world as a houndsman than this one. This is the battleground. The lines have been drawn and all of hunting will be affected. In particular, the anti hunting groups will use this victory to create a road map to eliminate hunting with hounds in your state. This will be a multi million dollar blood bath and Houndsman XP wants to know are you in the fight or not?

Dan Gates with Coloradans for Responsible Wildlife Management (CRWM) joins Chris in this first of many podcasts to bring you up to speed on what is going on with an introduced ballot initiative to eliminate mountain lion and bobcat hunting in the state of Colorado. We are in the beginning stages of what will be an epic battle. Dan gives the listener as much info as he can at this point. 

It is simple; you are either with us or against us.

www.houndsmanxp.com

www.savethehuntcolorado.com

Show Transcript

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Yeah! Yeah! Good boy! Yeah, Ranger! Uniting houndsmen across the globe, from east to west, north to south. If you're going to catch a cat or a lion, you have to have teamwork. We take you to the wildest places on earth. Yeah, so how many days a week do you spend out here? As much as I can to be honest with you.

Anytime that I get I'm out there. Join us for every heart pounding adventure on Houndsman XP. I'll tell you like I tell everyone else, I'm gonna hunt whether you're here or not, so you might as well be here.

All right, we're in Walsenburg, Colorado. I'm honored to sit down with Dan Gate with Coloradans for Responsible Wildlife Management. And this is just going to be an update. You're going to hear a lot of these this year. [00:03:00] Because we're not going to let this thing die. Colorado is the battleground state. For houndsman in 2024.

In my mind, what's going to happen here in Colorado is going to set a precedence and it's either going to show the anti hunting community that they can move in and take advantage of houndsman and. manipulate regulations about predator management and all this other garbage. So that's why I'm calling it the battleground state for 2024.

And I'm happy to have be sitting down in person with Dan gates. So welcome Dan. Thank you very much, Chris. Appreciate the opportunity. Oh, yeah, man. I'm telling you what you're leading the charge on this thing. I think it's you've got years of experience, decades of experience with this.

And I'm not, we recorded another podcast. I'm not sure if it's going to come out before this one or after this one. We'll just play it by ear. We'll clean all that stuff up in the forefront to really talk about what CRWM [00:04:00] is and what you guys have done and all that stuff. But I think it's imperative that we get information out there that's pertinent to our audience and get people involved.

And we're even going to talk about the fact of how we get people involved and why it's so damn hard to get people off their asses and get them involved. And this is one that we've got to be involved. Doesn't matter if you're a squirrel hunter with a dog in Tennessee. or you're chasing field mice with your rat carrier on the plains of South Dakota.

I don't care if you hunt with a dog, you got to pay attention and we need all hands on deck for this one. I think we need all hands on deck and we need every level of engagement from the top to the bottom and where we're at right now, there's a lot of questions on the landscape, Chris about, what does this mean and what do I do and how do I engage in, and while we don't have all the answers, we're hoping to be able to at least answer some of those questions, but this is going to be an [00:05:00] adaptive conversation over the course of the next, 13 months until November 5th of 2024.

Yeah. But we have to call audibles or if you were ever a fan of the Denver Broncos, when Peyton Manning was here, we need to figure out a way to have some Omaha's and and and we're in that fight right now. And we were, I'm a Peyton Manning fan when he was in Indianapolis, when he was a cold, he stayed within the horses, but yeah he stayed, he stays over here though.

Now see, yeah. Just move your mic around in front of your mouth a little bit because this room is echoey. I want to make sure that we don't get a bunch of feedback and stuff in the room. I understand. Yeah. So why don't you just lay out what we're actually talking about here? Because we came in and started talking about something going on.

Just start right from the beginning on what we're talking about. So I'm going to back up a little bit. And In 2019, the anti hunting coalitions approached the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission with an [00:06:00] anti harvest for bobcats that we defeated unanimously. With this animal rights governor's personal appointments in 2020, they came back again and we defeated them unanimously in 2021.

They expanded their horizons and tried to incorporate mountain lands and links, and we defeated them at the commission one more time, three times in a row in 2022, they came back. At the beginning of the legislative session in 2022 with a legislative bill, Senate bill 31 to ban the harvest of mountain lions, bobcats, and links.

And as most people are aware of, links are federally and state protected throughout the lower forties. That was just fluff to add to. Yeah. Just to add the sensationalize it. Yep. Sensationalized it. And we were told that we would lose by a margin of four to one through the Senate Ag Committee. And we fought diligently in 13 days notice to, to put a great showing at the Colorado State Capitol.

And we won that by the margin of four to one when we were told we were going to lose four to one. In the [00:07:00] interim, since then Governor Polis has decided to put more animal rights oriented individuals into all positions of wildlife management and agricultural management through the Department of Ag and through Colorado Parks and Wildlife and the Department of Natural Resources.

Since then, they've gained significant support and their armament has been built up to the level now that they've dropped an initiative to run a ballot measure to give the general public the opportunity to vote on prohibiting the harvest of mountain lions, bobcats and lynx for 2024. The interesting thing about that is, is if you read the title of that, it specifically says prohibit trophy hunting, right?

And while somebody might think that this is just a bobcat or a lion or a lynx issue there again, which we can't harvest links anyway, it specifically mentions in the language that trophy hunting means intentionally killing, wounding, or entrapping a mountain lion. Bobcat or a lynx intentionally [00:08:00] harvesting or intentionally killing is hunting.

It's not trophy hunting. It's their definition of trophy hunting, right? And the bigger picture behind this is it's not about, it's not about hounds. It's not about predator calls. It's not about cage traps, which by the way, is the only thing that we can use here now, because they took trapping away in 1996 as a constitutional amendment.

It's not about any of that. It's the fact that it specifically says killing. It doesn't matter whether it's a hundred pound mountain lion. We're 190 pound mountain lion. What all does it say again? It says killing, wounding, killing, wounding, or entrapping a mountain lion, a bobcat or lynx. And and so if you interpret that just for this specific argument, we don't have a definition in the state of Colorado, in the Colorado statutes, the regulatory issues, the Colorado constitution that defines trophy hunting.

If this is actually voted on and passed by the voters. It could set the precedent for definition on trophy hunting and not [00:09:00] just for lions, bobcats and other stuff, but then you put everything else into it. And there's a backstory to that just came out today as well about trophy hunting.

People need to understand this is an all out assault on every form that you could possibly get. It incorporates hounds, it incorporates archery, it incorporates rifle, it incorporates muzzle loaders, it incorporates predator calls, it incorporates trapping for bobcats that we can do. We can't trap mountain lions here because they're classified as a big game animal.

It incorporates all those methods of take in any way, shape or form. Because it says killing, wounding, or entrapping, and then you subsection that with trophy hunting. Those are things that people need to be aware of because I've run into in the last 12 days since this initiative was made public.

A guy that bird hunts and he has Britney Spaniels or a guy that waterfowl hunts and has black labs. I don't hunt lions, gates, doesn't really bother me. If you can incorporate all of these methods of take under that trophy hunting deal on what is cruel and [00:10:00] inhumane.

You tell me what's next on the list after this, it's not just about you and I and a few lion hunters and some trappers in the state that harvest some bobcats and some mountain lions. It's every single component of harvest that we do for regulated wildlife management and the North American model of wildlife management.

That's a scary thought to think that people would even be sitting back thinking whether or not if you're if you're a hunter. If you're an outdoorsman, even if you just enjoy looking at wildlife, that's, I can understand how people would not understand that, being an elk hunter, you need to be involved.

If you're a sheep hunter, you need to be involved. It doesn't matter. Everything is on the table here. This is a gateway. Into complete infiltration and defining taking the forms of ethical hunting that we've all enjoyed for years and putting a definition and calling it trophy hunting.

If they can get there, we're [00:11:00] screwed. Let me read you something that just came out today, five hours ago. By a gal by the name of Trish Zornio. And she put it in the Colorado sun and she's an editorial writer. Her headline today says, what do mountain lions, big horn sheep and black bears all have in common?

They're being trophy hunted in Colorado on private ranches and lands for thousands of dollars. She's decided to bring black bears. And bighorn sheep into the op ed conversation Which doesn't have anything to do with the ballot initiative, right? But if you don't think that it's connected you're misguided read between the lines, Cuz whatever the HSUS Center for Biological Diversity wildlife guardians, whatever Whacked out group comes out.

It's not what it appears to be on the surface. It never is. No it's always just, death by a thousand cuts. And I'll just say it, the reason that [00:12:00] they're going after mountain Lions and the form, especially the use of Hounds here, is because they expect us to be unorganized. One of the things that's commonly said among wildlife professionals is the one group that you know, Which one group you can count on not to show up?

Sportsmen. Hunters. Yeah. Everybody else is gonna show up. Yeah, and it's frustrating because what we do at the Coloradoans for Responsible Wildlife Management is try to collaborate and collectively organize our efforts on multiple levels. I'm speaking on behalf of the association right now, but I'm also the president for the Colorado Trappers and Predator Hunters Association.

I run and operate a wildlife control business. Everything that has happened to me over the course of the last 30 years, legislatively, and citizens petition wise or ballot initiative wise, has affected me and my livelihood to be able to turn around and operate, make a living, and help to manage wildlife under the North American model.

The attacks and the assaults have affected me personally. [00:13:00] Not everybody. Maybe it's taken away that somebody doesn't have the opportunity, but if they were never engaged in it, it didn't really take anything away from them because they never did it. It's, I guess it would be like looking at an Amish guy that doesn't drive.

If he take his license away, big deal, he's not going to drive. If somebody doesn't elk hunt, no big deal. If they take elk hunting away, if somebody doesn't lion hunt, no big deal. If they don't, if they take lion hunting away, that the component of this, and if I can read what they've actually put into writing for this, and the people need to understand, because this would be the actual.

legislation that would be put in after the people of Colorado voted for it if they're so inclined. But it specifically says, the voters of Colorado find and declare that any trophy hunting of mountain lions, bobcats, or lynx is inhumane, serves no socially acceptable or ecologically beneficial purpose, and fails to further public safety.

Trophy hunting is practiced primarily for the display of an animal's [00:14:00] head, fur, or other body parts. Rather than for utilization of the meat. Moreover, it is almost always conducted by unsporting means, including, but not limited to. Using packs of dogs with electronic devices to pursue and entrap affected animals in places from which they cannot escape in order to achieve the kill.

Therefore, it is appropriate and necessary to ban trophy hunting of mountain lions, bobcats, and lynx in Colorado. That's the section one that they will put into the Colorado revised statutes, and they will 33 4101. 0. 4 into the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Regulations if they pass that. Then it goes into the entire definitions of the entire initiative.

And I don't want to turn around and scare anybody any further than what I have, but they can look up the initiative if they're so inclined. Yeah, I've read it. Yeah, and it's. It's pretty encompassing as to what they're trying to do, whether you read the first title, whether you read [00:15:00] any line into there, or whether you read the whole thing.

Dan, the part, what are we going to do here? Because at what point do you look at the language in that and start picking it apart and read the part about it serves no purpose? It serves no socially acceptable or ecologically beneficial purpose and fails to further public safety. Okay.

There's three, three parts there. Socially acceptable. I think that's a broad term. I think that could be easily looked at, but it might not be socially acceptable within a small geographic area, but by and large, the landmass of Colorado, 5. 8 million people living in Colorado, 5. 2 million live on in Boulder, Colorado.

And and Denver, the front range there, it may not be socially acceptable in downtown [00:16:00] Denver, but for the rancher that's trying to ranch sheep on the Western. Western slope. I mean it's pretty damn acceptable for them. You bet. And it's acceptable for the professional outfitters here. It's professional.

It's acceptable for the, you come to a place like Walsenburg, Colorado, and there's a whole different mindset, but the voting public is not, the voting power is not there. That's what about that? How can we defeat that? I just, And I picked that slide off right from Colorado Parks and Wildlife presentation at Outdoorsman Day.

5. 8 million people in the whole state, 5. 2 million of them. We can just, we can go ahead and say that a lot of those people are going to vote for this ban. They're going to vote for it because they're uninformed, they're uneducated, it's not in their wheelhouse. They don't engage in that. Just like what I talked about, the Amish guy or the Elkhunter, if you take their stuff [00:17:00] away.

That they don't engage in, who cares? That's what's happening to this type of legislation or ballot driven agenda. If they take it away from somebody that doesn't engage why shouldn't I vote for it? Why shouldn't I not care? I think that we've gotten to a point to where... We've, we have fell into a trap from the sportsmen and women community.

We've got more organizational power than what most people would give us credit for. We have more representation. We've got decent money that comes in. We have passion and drive because of what we do for our avocational opportunities. Some of us make money off of some of the stuff and some of us don't, but we don't go against the North American model of wildlife conservation.

But most of the people that we're going to talk to during this campaign. Don't even know what that is. They don't know what the conservation model is. They don't know who CPW is. They don't know that their taxes don't go into fund the actual efforts of what CPW does, because it doesn't, it's done off of hunting and fishing licenses.

They don't know that the groups that are initiated into this process, put more time, effort, money, resources, and intestinal fortitude [00:18:00] into this process because it doesn't affect them. Have you got the, if you got the model handy, I don't have, I don't have it handy, the North American model. I want to read through just the.

the tenets of the model so that we understand exactly what we're talking about because let's not be throwing dart throwing darts at the public in Denver that doesn't know because We've talked about this before the hunting public doesn't know they can't talk intelligently about it And I think it's important that we lay that information out here right now so that everybody understands if you're a lion hunter and a houndsman in the state of Colorado and You're at Thanksgiving in a few weeks And your aunt from Denver asks why you should be able to hunt mountain lions.

You need to be able to quote her, the North American model. You need to have your, you need to have your crap together and be prepared with a [00:19:00] narrative, which is what we've talked about a thousand and 50 times on this podcast. It's all about the narrative. It's about being able to explain who we are and what we do and what values we add.

So let's run through that model real quick. So the North American model is a core principles, a set of core principles. It's seven tenets that, that actually establish how wildlife has been managed and guided over the course of the last 125 plus years. Tenet of the model is wildlife as a public resource.

It's a trust. It's a public trust resource All wildlife shall be held in public trust exactly and people need to understand the common law about that Specific component because what affects somebody that says it's a public trust. It's my public trust too I mean i'm part of the public And the management objectives that have been instilled over the last 125 years fall under that public trust.

Another one is the elimination of markets for game. Now that means something to the effect of the meat and [00:20:00] degradation and erosion of game populations through ill regulated management or harvest. There's a component in there that I want to mention though, because fur bearer and trapping has been highly criticized by the opposition.

Because they say it says elimination of markets for game. There's a complete exception and exemption that has been explained by Valerius Geist and Shane Mahoney and all the other peer reviewed individuals about the classification of fur bearing species and where they come from, how they're managed, and the resource that can be utilized.

There's an exception in the model about fur bearing species that are highly regulated and highly abundant. We're talking about... We're talking about gator poaching. We're talking about, the Buffalo trade. We're talking about sale of meat, the market hunting that took place on the Chesapeake Bay with punt guns.

Yep. That's what this is talking to the Lacey act of 1900 effectively made market hunting illegal in the United States. [00:21:00] And the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 provided international protections from the market. That's specifically segmented into geographical classifications and species classifications.

The other, one of the other tenets, the third one, is allocation of wildlife by law. Wildlife is allocated to the public by law as opposed to market principles, land ownership, or other status. We're not like Britain. We're not like Germany. We have this component where wildlife is managed by law that other places don't have.

Yeah. Yeah, and the law, the old system of wildlife management, all wildlife belong to the king. Exactly. And in the United States, this North America model would say it belongs to the people. It doesn't belong to the king. Yep. And what falls under that law is Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act, the Endangered Species Preservation Act, the First Seal Act of 1966, the Marine Mammal Protection Act of [00:22:00] 1972, the Endangered Species Act of 1973.

All of those things fall under that law. But if you really look at it, it also goes under the market side of it of what was available and what was usable and utilized. And that's how those tenets were originally established. Number four, wildlife should be only killed for a legitimate purpose. That's where the furbearer side of it comes in because the utilization of fur, especially for indigenous cultures and people, is actually utilization for a legitimate purpose.

Under the North American model, the killing of game must be done only for food, fur, self defense, and the protection of property, including livestock. That's what it should hold to. Our opposition is trying to degrade, erode, and bastardize every single level of the North American model. And so when you're talking about Bobcat and Mount lions, I'm telling you, if you're listening to this podcast, lion hunters and Bobcat hunters eat that meat.

I've had Bobcat [00:23:00] fajitas. I've had Mount lion stew. I've had Mount lion that we've ground up into Sausage and made sausage out of it. It's delicious. It's wonderful. So that's a complete lie and a debunking of the article that you read a few minutes ago where we did not use anything. You bet.

For food. Yup. That's ridiculous. We do. And part of the component here in Colorado and most of the Western United States is mountain lions, for instance, are classified as big game animals and big game animals have to be harvested and the food has to be prepared for human consumption, right? And Colorado is the only state.

And that I know of that is where it's legal to hunt mountain lions, and there's already a stipulation in the code that says it has to be, how's it say it needs to be removed from the field carcass taken care of, which makes it suitable and edible for human consumption. Yep, exactly. So if anybody is not doing that, like [00:24:00] our opposition alleges.

Then they are a poacher, they are a violator, they are a violator of the law, they need to be reported. And I think anybody on our side would 100 percent agree with that. It's just that they're trying to classify every single one of us in some category because they don't think, they don't think. That it should be utilized for any purpose.

We're going to make some outlines too. And we're going to, we're going to go to Denver and we're just going to, it's going to look like Costco stand. It's going to be what you got here. Just try it and see what you think. I think there's some value in that, but look at the article that I read just a minute ago, talking about bighorn sheep and bear, those are, but those are both.

Those are both big game animals classified in Colorado. The meat has to be prepared for human consumption by law. There's a lot of people that like bear and there's a hell of a lot of people that like bighorn sheep. Oh, yeah. If anybody's not had it, they should and you would relish it. Now, the only bad part is that because of the sheep populations and as many hunters that there are that would like to harvest the sheep there's not enough to go around for everybody[00:25:00] but there's plenty of food fare out there that people can engage in just because you don't like it doesn't mean that somebody else doesn't.

Number five, I think it says wildlife is considered an international resource. As wildlife do not exist only within fixed political boundaries. Effective management of these resources must be done internationally through treaties and the cooperation of management agencies. That's like the Migratory Bird Act from Canada going to the United States down in New Mexico and South America.

Yep. That those are the protections that go along with that. And that's why we established that stuff. Antis didn't do that. They didn't even know the difference between ducks, or they left from one spot to another. They didn't give a crap about this stuff 125 years ago. No, this was put in place by hunters.

Exactly. And I could go on a whole tirade, but we're, I know there's a lot of ground we've got to cover. But number, what are we? Six, six. Yeah. Science is the proper tool for discharge of wildlife policy. Wow. Science is the proper tool. Now imagine a world. [00:26:00] Where you could take the emotional charged opinion out of this whole thing.

Oh, they're so beautiful. That, that side of it, I think they're beautiful. I absolutely have a deeper appreciation for a mountain lion than any person that's ever seen one on Facebook. When you walk in there and you're standing there face to face with a predator that I'm so deeply invested in that.

On a lot of levels, but it's also a deal where as part of a natural world, I've taken it upon myself to insert myself into his world and help manage that population. But the science based, that, that addresses this second thing right here. Yes. Ecological. Yes. Value. It addresses it except for the fact that the opposition that I continually refer to.

Wants to debunk and de degrade and erode the North American [00:27:00] model. If they can do that, then their task is almost complete. I can tell you how it gets eroded is when hunters don't know what it is. You're exactly right. Yep. It's like asking somebody, do you like football?

I've never seen it. That's part of our problem that we're trying to do ask somebody if they've ever didn't have been to Disney World and get their opinion on it. If they haven't been there, it's hard to give their opinion. I said this at outdoorsman days and we'll get to the next tenant here.

Just momentarily, but at outdoorsman days, I don't think you were there. Maybe you were that night, but I looked around in the room at 300 people in the room and I said Who in this building know who's who they voted for and who they elected? Can you tell me that and people started looking around at the tables and I'm on the podium up on top and there was a lot of people that sat around there that, a lot that didn't know who their elected officials were.

If you don't know who the elected officials are, you don't know the tenants of the model. You don't know the arguments of fair chase. You don't know the practicality of science based wildlife management. If you can't argue [00:28:00] and debate with our opposition. How the hell do you go out and educate the ones that are in the middle of the road?

I see it all the time, Dan. I see guys that they know how to work a Garmin. They can run a radio, they can drive a truck. They can do all this stuff at one time, keeping track of hounds and know what it's, seven different hounds are doing on the mountain. And they're really good at all that stuff, but they have no working, working understanding, they don't have an, where they can.

articulate why, and I'm talking about articulation and struggling with the words here. They have no working knowledge of the things that keep them on the mountain, right? They don't understand it at all. No. And that's knowledge that you've got to have. You can't go to, you can't go be a Denver Broncos fan and not know who's on the team and not know the rules of the game and not know, that kind of stuff.

And we invest our. Time and our energy into so many things, and [00:29:00] oftentimes are misguided. For instance, and I'll cover the last one, then I'll say, for instance, the last tenant is democracy of hunting that this tenant is inspired by Theodore Roosevelt's idea that open access to hunting would result in many benefits to society.

This tenant supports access to firearms and the hunting industry of which most funding for conservation is derived. The democracy of hunting is what we strive for. When we talk about the second amendment, when we talk about laws, rules, and regulations. But most importantly to me, to my point about the outdoorsman days, about who the hell we elect and who we put in the office to make sure that they are adhering to the principles and guidelines that have been established over the course of the last 125 years.

That's important. If it, even if there's a legislator. You know what's scarier than that though Dan, is some of the numbers I've seen on the number of hunters that actually vote. Oh, it's sickening. 26%. Yes. Does that sound [00:30:00] familiar? Depending on what state and depending on what issue, but I've heard somewhere in the low twenties to the mid fifties, depending on the issue and depending on if it has to do with wildlife or not, we're more than likely drawing out people during wildlife ballot initiatives or legislative issues.

When it pertains to wildlife, but just because it doesn't pertain to wildlife now doesn't mean the elected officials don't turn around and vote on wildlife legislation next year, the year after or the year after. And by the end of the next time, when you want to vote them back out or in, it might be too damn late.

You already might've lost something at the legislative level. All right. Yeah. So moving along, we've gone through, we've gone through the tenants are, is a state wildlife agency bound in any way to manage wildlife in accordance to the wildlife or the North American model? Each state gave game agency has their own mission that they adhere to for a variety of reasons.

They're written into their guidelines and bylaws and state constitution. Colorado doesn't specifically say that they [00:31:00] adhere to the North American model, but all of the tenants that, that apply to the management of wildlife or the mission of Colorado parks and wildlife are pretty much set in stone. And it's a good reference because.

They say that we do this, say the democracy of hunting, or that we eliminate game markets. Those are components that fall under the model. But I don't know of anybody specifically that, that calls out the model as a governing factor or the Bible of what their management objectives are because they've got their own mission.

And a lot of that is legal jargon that pulls into, state management and fiduciary duties and budgetary issues and so forth. But they all adhere to the principle to the practice of it. And that's what we've been arguing for to say, look, you represent us. And for Christ's sake, you do represent everybody else, but the wildlife has to have a set of tenants that you regulate and that you manage and that you adhere to for model objectives.

The reason I asked that question is. I've already talked to some people that are frustrated because[00:32:00] they want to know where's, why CPW isn't coming out and saying, Hey, this is, we've got the science here that says Mountain lion and hunting is good. Bobcat trapping is good.

All this stuff is good. We've got all these and people are frustrated It's like we paint, yeah, I heard used to hear this all the time as a conservation officer I pay your salary you represent me, so why isn't see why aren't CPW employees? Stepping up and saying hey, this is totally We need to be hunting.

We need to be trapping. It's all part of the North American model. Predator management is good. Why aren't they doing that? You know what app I use on my phone more than any other app besides the podcast app to listen to this here podcast. I use on X maps is the most comprehensive mapping system for hunters on the market.

today. I use it all the time. When I was in New [00:33:00] Mexico, I was looking at 40, 000 acres of ranch that I needed to learn. I flip open on X and just start studying the map. When I'm riding trails, I put the tracking app on. It helps me get around in strange country. I could mark water sources, food sources, bear sign.

Just all kinds of options within on X. You need to check out on X maps by going to houndsmanxp. com. Click on the link on our sponsor page. You'll go right to on X maps. And when you check out, enter the code HXP 20, and you will get 20 percent off of your order, know where you stand with on X.

We had a meeting with department of natural resources in Colorado parks and wildlife and representatives of the governor's office on Wednesday. And that question was pretty much brought up to the director, and I don't want to throw the director out with the bath [00:34:00] water, because I think Jeff Davis is doing the yeoman's work of trying to navigate and thread that needle appropriately for multiple sides of the equation.

He was hired. He's only been there for four months and he jumped into a basket of crap. But he works at the pleasure of the governor, as do all the other employees, because they are state employees under the governor's watch and purview. The reason that they don't is because the governor will tell them not to, and they are they, to follow practice and protocol and procedure and authoritative display of action, I guess they will do what the governor says.

If the governor says you can speak, they will speak. If the governor says you won't. And that's the problem that we have in the structure that we have here. Is we have a enterprise agency that's funded by license dollars itself. Some of that is allocated through the Colorado state legislature because they're not just going to give a state agency free run to do willy nilly, but no matter how much money you raise, [00:35:00] I sit on the wildlife council, the messaging component of CPW and sportsman dollars.

And we have to turn around and go to the general assembly on money that we've been allocated for to make sure that we can spend it and it's government practice. We as a private counsel can speak to some degree outside of the purview of what CPW might have, but we still have statutory requirements and restrictions that we have to adhere to because that's the way the original legislation was written up.

We can say and talk about the benefits of hunting and fishing. CPW can be benign and talk 30, 000 foot level about the benefits of hunting and fishing. They might be able to engage in some sort of conversation about, we're doing this for the good of the people and the good of the wildlife. But when it comes in a controversial legislation or ballot driven initiatives, they will pretty much work on the pleasure of the governor and what the governor decides what they're going to be able to speak upon.

And any person that, you know, if you're talking to your biologist and he says, hey, I can't comment on that. [00:36:00] It's not because it's not his fault. It's not because he agrees or disagrees with what you're saying for him to speak to you. He's going to have a letter of resignation in one hand and tell you what he wants, tell you what you want to hear.

And that applies to biologists, the game wardens, anybody that's CPW employee at this point. I think whether they're a cashier at the front desk at 6060 Broadway. Or if they are a regional manager or an area wildlife manager or a district wildlife manager or a biologist they're going to watch their P's and Q's.

And I've been through this process since 1992 on the BEAR Initiative 10. In 1996, Amendment 14, when we lost TRAP in here. The wolf issue, Proposition 114 in 2020. And now this, and I will tell you that because of historical precedent and the operational components of state government.

Unless the guy was planning on putting his retirement papers in 30 days from now anyway, these guys are not going to talk because they're going to damage the opportunity for them to engage in [00:37:00] the yeoman's work that they know that needs to go on behind the scenes. To make things right, even though they're not, they'd not been designated to speak in front of the scenes.

Yeah. That the biologist's job and the employee's job is a whole different podcast that we could do, but they're crucial and by and large. A lot of those people, except for the appointed bureaucratic heads of these departments, have no political agenda. Their only agenda is to do what's good for wildlife in the state of Colorado.

That's exactly right. And while they need to adhere to the mission. The mission changes in the sense to where the governor decides what is most important in the important topic of the day. And if things ever would swing back the other way, you're going to want those same people that are, off the leash at that point to go do the right thing.

So don't be sacrificing or burning any. Any CPW employees at the stake,[00:38:00] no, these guys are they're busting their asses to do what's right for Colorado's wildlife and natural resources. When you look back at 1992 on initiative 10, the bear initiative, we had 2. 9 million people in the state.

30 years later, we got pushed in 6 million. These guys have become to the point of, instead of mostly wildlife managers. They are people managers that deal with wildlife, period. That's the number one issue is wildlife, human conflict was, is the number one issue that wildlife managers, but it's a people business.

You manage people more than you manage wildlife anymore. For sure. Yep. Let's lay out what the next year is going to look like, Dan. I think we, we laid out the. importance and we're, I can't stress it enough. It's all hands on deck. We got to have everybody on board. And this is what we're in for 2024 in Colorado.

And it's coming to a town near state near you. If it [00:39:00] gets through here today was the legislative council hearing at the Colorado state Capitol. On the first process of the initiative that they go through and that can be reviewed on the Colorado State General Assembly website. I think it's a 21 minute conversation.

It's not very enlightening. It doesn't have very much enthusiastic, I wouldn't go buy popcorn and beer and invite your friends over for it because it's probably not going to, it's not going to get any giant ratings, but it's the political process of what we deal with in initiative activity, because it's the right of the general public to be able to do whether I want people to sit behind a oak desk, or I want them to drive an electric car, or I want them to drink only Coors beer.

If I wanted to run a ballot initiative, I could do any of that. It's just a matter of whether I go through the proper steps and procedures. Today was the first legislative council. The title board hearing, which is actually setting the title of the bill of the ballot language, will happen, I [00:40:00] think it's on October 18th.

We go through that process. And we have the opportunity to interject through legal counsel, not through public comment. So let me stop it. I want to make sure I understand. Yes, sir. What was today? Today was setting the language? No, today was actually reviewing the initiative that was originally distributed.

And the legislative council has an opportunity to hear sides. From the legislative argument or curiosity or questions, and then the proponents, the actual initiators of the initiative to give their side of the story, to lay something out as to the groundwork of why they came up with the document and why they want to take it to the people to vote.

The second component is, and this is where we get into the next part of our equation, is the title board involvement. And that's where the title board itself would set a title. Which is complicated because to set the title, it has to be under a single subject rule. [00:41:00] There could only be one subject within the title that the voters of Colorado within and turn vote on in 2024.

That way they don't confuse anything. In addition to that, they're trying to make sure that there's legal language and that the question of the title itself would appropriately ask the general public as to what they would favor. Shall this happen or will that happen in case that happens? It's the legal jargon that you've seen on all ballot initiatives.

And if you haven't vote, you need to register to make sure that you get the hell out there to understand what we're talking about. But the blue book that will be done, that is done before next year's. Election that people get and they review. This is all the stuff on the ballot. This is how title is set on those individual ballot initiatives.

I don't care whether it's a tax initiative or an abortion initiative or roads and bridges or schools. It goes through the same process. Every initiative goes through title board. At the first title board meeting, we will get a chance to listen to see what The recommendations are [00:42:00] for the title of the language that will actually go before the voters.

Then we get a chance to appeal. If we don't like it, the appeal process is about two weeks. Then we get to come back and see where they're at again. And then what they hear are arguments from a legal side, not individual public comment, no interaction from the general public. It has to be legal representation of your your side of the argument.

We go through that appeal process, which then could be kicked down the road to another. Title board hearing, which would then be listening to other initiatives that have been introduced since this process has been going on. And then they would be addressing these title board questions or appeals. By the time that we get through, from my understanding, the second to the third appeal, which will probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of Thanksgiving, we have the way that the title comes out.

That it doesn't seem like it's [00:43:00] just bullet point clear, then we can turn around and appeal through the Colorado Supreme Court. Now, there's a Secretary of State component in all of this as well, because the Secretary of State would be the one who would then in turn certify this entire process for all the initiatives, just not ours.

And to keep in mind, this is Initiative 91, there's been 91 other initiatives that have been sent to this process. So far for the 2024 election, how long does it take a person is how much time they have spent in a ballot booth in? State of Colorado to vote on 91 initiatives. Keep in mind that not all of those will make it past the title board Yeah, and as it was explained to me today some of those might be same subject matter, but they'll sit on them they'll submit six or seven different wordings To alleviate a lot of the hurdles that they have to go through to hopefully get through the title board more efficiently and effectively.

So instead of saying shall, maybe one will say will, and instead of saying trophy, maybe they'll just say hunting [00:44:00] or those are just examples on this case, to the best of our knowledge, they've only actually initiated one. Question, which is initiative 91 that the title board is considering, we get through the Supreme Court side of things, which is not likely if we go that far, it's not very likely that we're going to turn around and be very successful somewhere in that timeframe of us trying to follow through with all of the stones unturned and make sure that we cover all of our bases.

They will probably likely start gathering signatures. They need to gather signatures to be able to make it on the state ballot. They need to gather 124, 232 or 34 signatures. I believe once they gather those, if they're successful, then there's a certification process. They have 180 days to gather those signatures from the time that they start the 180 days total, but it has to be done within 90 days.

Of the first time when the blue books would be actually drawn up and the ballots would be sent out or [00:45:00] there would be mail in ballots available. So there's a process from my understanding somewhere around the first part of August next year that's when the drop dead deadline would be. But if they start gathering signatures in January or February, they might have to only have 100, 180 days from that time when they start.

Yeah. The certification of those signatures. They'll probably try to gather 000 because they want to make sure that they're all eligible and they're all legible and that they all are residents of the state of Colorado and so forth. So as long as they go through that proper process and that's not challenged.

Then they can start the process of their, of what they might call the final run of their advertising campaign to try to put it across the finish line. Our hope is, and not letting the cat out of the bag, but there's other measures that can be adhered to for us to be able to challenge the certification of those signatures.

Or to figure out a way to engage in that signature gathering process from an [00:46:00] educational component. Now we can't hamper any efforts. We can't go out and threaten people. We can't turn around and go out and take ballots away from people. That's important. We bring that up right now. Yeah.

Don't be driving around your hound rigs, interfering with legal. Yeah, that'd be a bad deal election and signature hamper tampering is something that we don't need on our side as a, as an argument of what we're trying to do. I know how houndsman think, man. Oh yeah. I've seen him shut down state capitals before with hound rigs.

Yeah. So we need to think about this very professionally with a level of civility and decorum. We need to make sure that we are doing things in accordance with state law, because I will tell you the thing that concerns me the most. This specific issue is probably what most would consider to be Armageddon in the state of Colorado and how it could trickle down to other states.

But we still have a legislative process and a Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission process that we have to deal with at the same time. [00:47:00] This ballot deal is going to cost a lot of money. It's going to cost a lot of brain power and a lot of bandwidth and a lot of effort and intestinal fortitude, strategy, calculations, smarts.

But if they throw something at us at another level, Coming from the legislative side or the Colorado parks and wildlife commission side, we need to be strategic because we need to win on those levels too. While we're still trying to fight a ballot initiative. And what we don't need is some guy out there harassing signature gatherers or turn around and doing something nefarious on YouTube or Facebook or Instagram or some other social media deal and showing their ass.

In a illegal, unethical, cruel, inhumane deal to give these sons of bitches arguments and ammunition to our efforts of what we're still turning around and fighting on the front side. Don't be shooting holes in the boat. No, my, my whole recommendation, there's a lot of stuff that you can take pictures of, there's a lot of stuff you can take video of while you're hunting.[00:48:00]

And the last part of that, everybody wants to, they'll skip all the other valuable components of hunting to capture. Five seconds of a lion coming out of a tree or a bear coming out of a tree, keep your phone in your pocket. We all know what happens. We don't care. It's not important.

That is the least important part of a hunt. There's years, decades of preparation leading up to that point. That's the least important part, but yet we've got way too many people that want to capture that moment. I have no idea they want to capture it, Chris. Before they get back to the truck, they want the world to know about it.

Oh, yeah. And There's already a video floating around out there from a Colorado that's already been publicized. I got a copy of it the other day. Colorado Houndsman. And it's a compilation of all his kill shots that he's put on. Social media, it's stop, you're killing us. Go, go [00:49:00] join. If you're such a tough guy, go join UFC, start training for UFC.

Yeah, that's the frustrating thing is the Marine Corps. I've had to fight this level pretty significantly, and I've been the tip of the spear on multiple levels. And I won't get into the details of what we've had to do. Personally and professionally, but nothing is more troublesome and frustrating and actually offensive than to find out that the people that you're trying to do all of the work for that you're spending the time and effort and generating money and doing the testimonies and doing the back doors, scheduling the meetings and busting your ass and sacrificing your life.

And when you don't even engage in that specific activity and you find that some guy is. Unintentionally sabotaging you because he wants to be the guy on YouTube. Yep. I don't have patience for it. And it's not a threat, and it's not an ultimatum. But I will tell you, at the age that I'm at, and what I'm doing for a living, and what I'm trying to do on behalf of everybody else, I hope that I don't run across guys during this campaign that do that similar thing.

Because it won't be a [00:50:00] friendly outcome. They won't be my friends at the start, and they won't be my friends at the end. Because they're doing it to every single one of us, and they're not doing it to houndsmen. They're not doing it to bobcat trappers. They're doing it to sportsmen. Yep. Agreed. Agreed. After the, let's, we've got through the the title board stuff.

What's the next step? What's that next interim period? You said something about 180 days of signature gathering. That's going to be a media. Blitz, that's going to be a media blitz and it's going to be a, he said, she said, finger pointing woulda shoulda coulda back and forth. If you read anything in Colorado or on social media, you can see the things that have come out in the last 48 hours from the op eds that have been done in the Denver post or the stories that have been done in the grand junction Sentinel or the Colorado sun or the Pueblo chieftain.

If you just look at what they're actually doing and what they're putting together. Carol Baskins, now the gal that took down Tiger King or something, she's on board and she turned around and put an op ed in the Denver Post yesterday, [00:51:00] Wednesday, that was completely false, talking about mountain lions and bobcat meat and USDA approval and there's no lion and bobcat on any restaurant plates and the pathogens and the viruses that meat carries and it's...

What do you mean there's none on restaurant plates? There aren't any wild mule deer on plates either. That's the problem. She doesn't even understand the tenets of the, that's the market part. That's why it's in there. That's why we'd hear it. But she's catering to that voter public that is ignorant.

And that 80 percent that doesn't understand. The process and procedures of regulated harvest and wildlife management. The goose tartar that she's eaten at her highfalutin parties didn't come from Canada geese or snow, snow geese flying South from Canada. No, it came from farm raised geese. Yep. Same way with fish and salmon and.

and buffalo and deer and all this other stuff that you could find on a menu. It's farm raised people. It's farm. And the point that the ignorant public and I say ignorant in a [00:52:00] nice way educated, stupid is when you refuse to educate yourself. Yes. Now I would say that Carol Baskins falls into the second category.

And I would think that some of her counterparts probably fall into the first category. And so ignorant and being educated after you find out that you didn't know the truth. Is the best way that people can turn around and address their ignorance on the landscape. I didn't know that. Then I found out about it.

I'm not sure that I found out about it. But when you were told, you were shown, you were seen, you ate it, you taste it, you breathe it, you crapped it, and then you still did something nefarious about it, then you're stupid. Yeah. And I'm finding that more and more of our counterparts on both sides of the aisle are somewhat sometimes stupid because they don't think about their actions and they don't find out the truth about the facts.

Yeah. Let's talk about what houndsmen can be doing right now. What do we, hunters in general, I'm not even going to say houndsmen, this is a houndsmen XP podcast. I talk to you guys all the time, but I'm hoping that, Joe [00:53:00] Bowhunter, That has no desire to ever go out and mountain lion hunt. It's listen to this podcast because this involves you.

So what can we as a hunting public do right now? What can we get started on? Because we're already behind the eight ball. We're already behind the eight ball. And what I will say is, what they did in Maine. To stop the bear hunting initiative, what they did in Arizona to stop the houndsmen from being able to harvest mountain lions and what they're trying to do in New Mexico.

Those are efforts that everybody can learn off of, but they have to educate themselves. They have to figure out where they want to send the money. There's a thousand different organizations out there that, that do a lot of the yeoman's work on the landscape for habitat and conservation.

Not every one of them fight. We might think that we pay our 25 or 50 bucks and get a free knife and a magazine subscription that's doing what's necessary. It has to be more than that. And I'll tell you, the [00:54:00] coalition that I'm part of, which is the Colorado Wildlife Conservation Project, we just had a meeting this morning, 30 different individuals from major organizations on that.

They are 501c3s. We are a 501c4. To the average person, that doesn't make a rat's ass bit of difference. The C 4 allows us to educate, inform, and engage in political decision making processes that pertain to our specific mission of the organization. A C 3 cannot do that. A C 3 is limited to maybe 10%. And if they're spending millions or tens of thousands of dollars on the habitat side of things, they don't have the money to turn around and kick in because then it takes away from their other operational... Segments of the structure of their organization. What people can do is start rat holing some money and putting it where it needs to go.

And it needs to go right now to a cause that we started on the process. And I'm not saying, it's hard for me to ask for money, but it's really hard for me not to [00:55:00] ask for money. It's time. And so we bellied up the first 150, 000 on Tuesday to start the engagement. At the state level through this ballot title board process, it's it takes much smarter people than I and you there's title board attorneys.

That's the big for yourself. Dan. Then I should have hired you because you probably wouldn't have been as expensive. And if you would have been so we just need to make it make sure that we're on the same page here. We hired we fired the first shot across the bow. Yeah, we hired a very respected campaign advisement council team that is going to help guide us through the initial stages, which we will likely then turn over the operational aspect of that to a issues committee that we will form with all of these other organizations and interested individuals.

Now you don't want a thousand people on the damn committee because you'll never get a decision made, but the issues [00:56:00] committee will be very strategically aligned with. The directive of the people that we hire, the organization that we hired, we will have a campaign structure, a campaign plan. We also have a defense and an operational plan because the thing that we have to consider in my mind is.

What do you have? If you're going all out on one direction to turn around and figure out your messaging, your target audience the message that you have to have based upon the question that the title board came up with, and all of a sudden I'm just throwing something out hypothetically that your opposition pulls an audible and they do a different thing.

If you put all of your resources right on the bat until something is final, that's where you have to end up at. You have no way to turn around and deal with that flanking of your troops. If something happened on our side, and I'm just thinking outside the box, some idiot guy on our side turns around and makes news that is not positive for us.

Or, [00:57:00] one or two mountain lions turn around and attack a skier or some kid jogging on a trail. We have to figure out how to capitalize on those, I say sensationalize it. But not sensationalize it, capitalize on the instance, because that's everyday stuff. We have idiots out there doing stuff.

Which goes to the third part, where it says, poses no benefit to public safety. Exactly. Exactly. Mountain lions are chewing on people all the time in California, we've had many instances be that ignorant not to recognize we've had many instances here in Colorado where there's absolutely we've had bear killings.

We've had lion killings. We've had bear and lion attacks. Yep. And and now that we're introducing wolves in the, into the state through the other ballot initiative back in 2020, Yeah which is another podcast and another podcast now that we brought those in and we're trying to figure out how to put those on the ground.

There's going to be some competition on the landscape, not just for prey. Did you say on the ground or in the ground? I said on the ground. You did say on the [00:58:00] ground. Okay. I just want to make sure. Yeah. I want to make sure. Yeah. But there's going to be competition on the landscape, not just for prey from those predators, but also from the predators on our side and the other side, trying to get this thing across the.

The finish line or to stop it. We don't need to sensationalize stuff that doesn't need to be dramatized. We need to make sure that we turn around and take the facts. We do it meticulously, we lay out a strategy, we move forward with it, and if we need to call it Omaha, then we turn around and go one side or the other.

You gotta be, you gotta be light on your feet, and you gotta, I think it's doable, Dan. I want everybody, we've talked about all the bad stuff, we've talked about, how much money we need, but I know that this is doable. I watched... Other organizations raise a million dollars back in the eighties, when they needed it, there are ways to do this.

So I don't think we ever said, where can somebody, if I'm going to go out there and start gathering money and shaking aunt Gertie down at [00:59:00] Thanksgiving dinner for five bucks to help me out, where can I send that money? Where I know that the money's going to go to the right place. Every dime that we raise for the coloradoans for responsible wildlife management will go directly into this as the first and foremost opportunity for our engagement and activation.

At the same time whoever sends money in or contributes through paypal or donates on our website or whatever needs to understand that we still need to have operational components to fight at the legislature and to fight at the Parks and Wildlife Commission at the same time. It's all in one. We don't have a, we don't have a mechanism within CRWM, you send us 50 bucks and say, I want it to go to this because that might relate to this and it might come back to that.

There's a spider web effect that all of this is intertwined in some capacity, but I will guarantee you that every dollar that is sent Will be spent on the issues that we need to deal with within the operational aspects of the erosion and degradation [01:00:00] of the North American model and specifically at this point in time, initiative 91 until we have to call it Omaha and then go in some other direction temporarily to hold the wolves at bay.

No pun intended because that's what's going to happen. I guarantee that's what they're going to do. There's so getting back to the question, save the hunt. Colorado dot com is the website. Mhm. Mhm. There's a payment button on there. You can donate monthly, you could donate one big increment.

You can donate in a bunch of small ones, or you can send a check. You can get the address to send a check on the website. Save the hunt. Colorado dot com goes to the Coloradoans for responsible wildlife management. We are located in Canyon City, Colorado. We organize and structure as a 501 C four under the Colorado state.

Guidelines and with the federal guidelines and we are the only organization that has lobbying representation at the Colorado State Capitol at this point in time. Now, I know the Rocky Mountain Elk [01:01:00] Foundation is trying to figure out how they can put some sort of lobbyist at the Capitol on behalf of the RMEF but we are the only one that has three full time lobbyists.

Nobody else has one that we'd started this organization for that, for messaging, education, and representation. That was in 2017, the year before Governor Polis got elected, because we knew that if he got elected and that his husband was a full blown left wing animal rights activist. That we better have something in place.

We didn't think that we would be in the fight that we are now based upon the successes that what we've had in 1920, 21 and 22, but these bastards won't stop, they're not going to stop. And we shouldn't stop either. And that's. I'll just say it. I'm tired of seeing tough guy posts and all this other stuff on Facebook.

If you don't show up for this, find somebody else's podcast to listen to. I'm not going to stop talking about this. I'm [01:02:00] not going to have, stop having guests like you on here, Dan. We are going to put... Our foot on the gas and keep the pedal all the way down to the floor until this thing is resolved in 2024.

We're going to be sustainable, we'll still run some of our normal programming with some, we never want to stop talking to great houndsmen and people that have great stories. But Dan, this is. I'm telling you, this is a battleground issue for 2024. If there's a victory here, the next victory is going to be easier.

Every time we let them win, it becomes easier for them to win because they start tweaking and road mapping. And we got it. We got to fight. We got to fight and we got to fight. People need to dig deep down inside. You're coming up on the the hunting and trapping seasons. You're coming up on the holiday seasons when we get together with our friends and relatives and nobody's supposed to discuss politics.

And then right after that, miraculously we're all feeling good about everything. We go into every [01:03:00] state's legislative session. And we start dealing with commission sessions and the politics that that, that dig us down. It's a good damn thing that Christmas and Thanksgiving aren't in January and February because people would be pissed off and be given lumps of coal in everybody's stockings.

We're at a, we're at a point that people have to dig deep down inside to figure out why do they do what they do? How do they want to continue to support it? Do they want to fight for it? Do they want somebody else to fight on their behalf? Or do they want to stand by thing, man? I know thousands of houndsmen that would never think about taking charity or, we're resourceful.

We're we'd take care of ourselves. We do all this stuff when you're not showing up for these meetings. I know, Dan, you're not a houndsman, but you're in the middle of this fight and you're putting your energy out there for somebody else. So if you're a houndsman and you're sitting back thinking.

I'll just let Dan Gates take care of it. You're a damn freeloader. That's, [01:04:00] I'll just call it like it is. You're a freeloader. And if you, we've got to get people in this fight. I'm a sportsman first. I'm a conservationist. I'm a trapper. I'm an elk hunter. I own a bow, but I wouldn't class it myself as an archery hunter.

I want to, I want a bow at outdoorsman days from John Vernetti. Did you? And now I guess I'm an archer. Yeah. I've traveled around the world and been fortunate enough to do so in my life. I've traveled around the North American continent. I've hunted in about nine different states. I don't have a lot of money.

I just saved up for different stuff. I started this fight in 2007 because I saw people that were trying to do things. And I thought that they were doing it incorrectly. I thought that they lost things that they shouldn't have lost because they didn't reach out. They didn't broaden the net. They didn't expand their horizons.

They didn't turn around and try to make a bigger footprint on the landscape. And I thought that we could, when I became president of the Colorado Trappers and Predator Hunters Association, I had sat on the board and [01:05:00] there was vice president, and then lo and behold, I was president because on the low hanging fruit or hangman's noose or whatever,

But I started to engage from the trapper side. But I immediately changed with our board and our members, the name from the Colorado Trappers to the Colorado Trappers and Predator Hunters. Because there was more predator hunters out there than trappers. In conjunction with that, I started trying to build an outside coalition.

And there again, a lot of organizations want to fight for. Posterity on the landscape position themselves. They're talking about membership and they're talking about, fundraisers and they're talking about things that don't pertain to all the other organizations they take, they pertain to their wheelhouse.

They stay within their 2009.

As my represent representation of the trappers at the time. First thing I did, I just called all my buddies that were members of all of these other organizations. They weren't part of our organization. I said, I need you to turn around and belly up to the [01:06:00] bar and show up to this commission meeting. They did.

That was the start of an opportunity for a coalition. Of at least like minded individuals that were willing to get together when it was necessary. Now, we're not the most formidable bunch of bastards on the planet. But we are in a position to set the tone in the narrative and create a model that if everybody else would separate their differences and set aside, the insecurities that they've got, they can come together.

We can be the most formidable. Action oriented group in the country, 13 million guys and women that are out there turning around and trying to pursue our advocations. If only half of us stood up about hunting and fishing and we had the NRA and the rifle guys and the target shooter guys, if only half of us stood up.

You know how much the legislature would care about our voice? Exactly. You know why? Because it doesn't just benefit us. It benefits the public trust doctrine that [01:07:00] everybody benefits off of. Every single citizen of the United States benefits off of what hunters and anglers and conservationists bring to the table.

We don't do a very good job of telling our story. But I've been trying to tell it here in a state where we've already lost a bunch of crap over the last 30 years. We would have been very successful if we would have done this 30 years prior because when these new three billion people moved into this state, we could have educated them on the practices, policies, and procedures of science based wildlife management in the North American model.

But we got so far behind the eight ball that they came in like the Oklahoma land rush or locust on a cornfield. There was no way you could educate them. There was no way, shape, or form. I don't want to see the rest of the country fall by the wayside, specifically the West, because of the big game component that we have with bighorn sheep and moose and mountain lions and bears.

I don't want to see the rest of the country fall by the wayside. So if we're the epicenter, hey, bring it on. But if we don't get the support from the rest of the country, it's coming to your door [01:08:00] next, and I won't be around long enough to turn around and fight it, because I'm on the latter part of my stages.

We need to figure out people to get involved, that care. Monetarily, intestinally, socially, economically, and structurally are in their own head and not always say, I don't have the time. Everybody's got 24 hours in the day, Chris, they can figure out when the hell they're going to do it and how they're going to do it.

And I'm trying to do a motivational speech at this point in time. But when you look in the mirror, what do you see? I see the enemy because I want to beat their ass and I want to shove them down. If you're looking for something else, then you need to figure out some other thing to engage in because somebody is there to take it away.

And if you're not going to turn around and stand up for it, somebody else is going to come get it. You might as well just give it away. That's my argument. Yep. I agree with you 100%. Just, if you're not willing to stand up, just start listing your stuff for sale right now on Facebook and quit, get out of the way.

You could come to Outdoorsman Days next year on August 9th and 10th and sell all your crap out really [01:09:00] quick and then turn around and take it back home, take the money back home. There you go. That's not what we're asking. I know. I don't want anybody to do that. This is a something that is so deeply ingrained in my soul and that's why I'm sitting in Colorado talking to you Dan.

So I appreciate your time. I know that you're a busy guy. Your phone's been blowing up and a lot of people need to talk to you because. This is a hot button issue. I want to make sure that I have the opportunity to convey as much information as what we possibly can. And as we get it, we will put it on our website.

There's some vacancies and omissions on the website now, because we're still in flux. We're still in this beginning processes, hard to answer questions when you don't have a story to answer, but I want to make sure that I deliver you messages that were, you can convey to your listening public.

And to work maybe spread out farther than that cause this isn't a fight you're going to win now. It's not going to be one for 13 months, but it's like the [01:10:00] first round of a title bout and I think it can be one, I really do. And I damn sure know that if we don't try to win.

What good are we? Exactly. Exactly. I'm not wired that way at all. I appreciate the time and the opportunity to look forward to speaking with you and Anybody that has a question that can get to our contact information with Save the Hunt Colorado and all the information is on The website. Great.

Alright folks, that's gonna wrap it up for this Part one of many with Dan Gates and updates for on, on this proposition 91 or initiative 91 in the state of Colorado. It is a battleground deal. I've said that you're going to get tired of hearing me saying it. Diagonal. We need to figure out, we got to identify what's worth fighting for in our lives and as houndsmen this is worth fighting for.

It's a good fight and it's a it's a fight worth being in and given our 100%. So that's all I got for this week. Thanks for tuning into the [01:11:00] Houndsman XP podcast. This is fair chase.