Heat Strokes, Snake Bites and Bee Stings

Show Notes

Training hounds, and summer time hunting present a risk for severe and damaging injuries to our dogs. Heat Stroke, snake bites and bee stings are always on our minds. Hunting veterinarian Garrett Bailey breaks down the things we need to know about hunting in hot weather. Sprinkled in are several laughs and the favorite hunt of last year.

You will want to take notes for this one. So, Grab a pen and paper and get ready to start writing down the essentials you should have in your war bag.

Topics covered:

● Heat Exhaustion

● Heat Stroke

● How to prevent

● Cool boxes

● Snake bites

● Bee stings


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Show Transcript

[00:00:00] The Homan XP podcast Network is taking you on the journey. Your host, master trainer, Heath Hyatt, will combine his decades of experience as a homan and as a professional trainer that will light the path forward and make our packs lighter on this lifelong journey to become better hunters and hounds men.

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Guys with hunting season, literally right on us. And I know the guys up north. I know [00:02:00] Maine, New York. I think Vermont, I know Wisconsin season come in July 1st. But for us southern folks, they don't come in until August 1st. And we are in a heat wave. I'm walking outside and I'm swimming in my own sweat.

That's how hot and humid it is. So sorry for you guys. It's up north and northwest. That, that I'm a month late on this, but I thought this was very important. So today we've got Dr. Garrett Bailey in the house. Easy on the doctor there. So for you guys that haven't heard before Garrett was on last fall.

We did one on puppies, whelping puppies, what to do with the females, how to medicines to give them, not to give them worm and so forth. Shots with the puppies raising the puppies. So that was a good one if you wanna go back and listen to it. But today, I thought because of the heat and the humidity, and every year we deal with this in our group, that somebody's dog falls out [00:03:00] from heat exhaustion heat stroke we're gonna touch on some snake bites and bees because we've got into the bees a couple times going into trees or tree with bees in 'em.

So that's the thing we're gonna touch on and we're gonna let Dr. Bailey give us some information, some tips, some stuff to do and not to do. So our group is lucky because we have him with us, and if he don't do what we tell him, we just hog time and keep him in the woods until he does it and I'll stay there.

Gladly. He don't wanna go back to work either, right? Negative guess, right? Not in hunting season. No. I'm banking my time. I can't wait. I'm banking. It's ridiculous. Yeah. I cannot wait. I think we're all, but I don't, it's too hot. We talked about it, I know it's 90 some degrees today.

I did not pull the humidity, which we'll get into that in a little bit. It's up in the upper eighties today, up eighties. So way too high. It might touch 90. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Garrett, how's everything? Your, I'm in your house. Isn't your 30? It's good, man. Yeah, we just [00:04:00] having youngins. Yeah. Dogs running everywhere.

Trying to get something legal to drive for hunting season a little bit different. I found out last year, antique tags don't really cover you. You're just supposed to go to the garage or a Yeah, a car show. Yeah. Not be loaded down with hounds, but, so that's kinda what we've been into today. Yeah. I pulled up in the driveway and dogs come outta woodwork.

They were, oh, every, or they're everywhere. They come outta the trees from out front of the porch to met me halfway down the driveway. That's what Katie says. She says, someone's going to hit 'em. I said, look, ain't no one coming up that driveway that shouldn't be here. 'cause it is so rough.

And everyone coming up here knows their dogs and youngins running everywhere. When I turned the corner down there, I'm like, all right, blue dog. Get outta the way. Get outta the way. She'll move. And then I pull up in the driveway and Garrett's hanging out from underneath the Toyota.

He's He's went sideways with the rest of the group. I'm so disappointed in you, Garrett, for not going full size. Oh man. I'm telling you the money. I know. I get it. I'm, man, I just hope my old truck last me another. [00:05:00] If it'll get me through December, then I'll work on it some more and get me through another December.

I heard that. I got the backup. I got the old Nissan in case the Yoder breaks down. Yeah I'm, I've got an, I've got another one if I need it. I just don't want to use it. I don't wanna tear it up. So hopefully old rusty, you dang right will last me. It's gonna, like me and Maddie, were talking about this other day.

It's going the truck, but it's gonna outrun the body. The frame probably going to go. And the the bed, the fender wells and stuff are rusting so bad right now. And I just need to get some sheet metal and get a good bedliner. They won't fall through that bedliner. I've got one in it.

It'll save me. I tell you, let me tell you about, and I didn't realize this. So when I was down North Carolina, back in May, My truck was acting funny. And so on the way home, I called my garage and I'm like, Hey, this is what the truck's doing. Something's not right. I said, I swear, I think it's in the front end.

And he said, all right. He just bring it in when you get back. I was hoping I could make it back 'cause I was still two hours out from the house and it was [00:06:00] awful. So I get back, take it to the garage. He calls me two days later and said, Hey, we got you fixed. You ready to go? And I said, oh, what was it?

And he said, your shock mount had broke and your shock was jamming. Jamming it Chris. I didn't realize it, but there's a shield underneath my bed. Like a metal plate. Was it resting on that? Oh, it had almost poked a hole through it. That's what probably kept it from flying on. And that, and if I hadn't had that plate there, it would've done, it would've went through the bed and probably got one of the dogs.

Gee, they Christmas. So now I feel ya. I guess all bear hunters, especially in this country, they're working on trucks. Basically during season. Yeah. It just happens. It'll buff out's my motto until it won't. Yeah, that's right. And then if you can't hunt well, you gotta have a backup. That's right, Uhhuh. I know.

And it's so hard. I had to borrow my buddy's, I had to drive it Yoder around last year. I've seen you. Yeah. That was so painful. It was painful. Knees in the dash driving a straight And it wasn't a four door [00:07:00] either. It was extended cab, was it? No. It it was the old four door. It didn't have a door on it.

Oh yeah. Yeah. It was ex just extended. You extended but you had to Yeah. Fold. You had to fold the seat up to get in the back. Yeah. But, thank goodness for friends. 'cause he helped me out. You dang right. Yeah, that was tortured. That was the last week in the early season yeah.

Yeah. I remember that day. I think we walked that bear up and down the creek. Was it that day? No, it was a different day. No, I was in there. Yeah. Yeah, I was in there that day. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was when you had the Toyota. Yeah. Yeah, I had it a couple days. But Garrett I, like I said, I want to talk about, this time of year is awful and I wanna make sure that everybody has everybody.

Probably at some point in time, if you've hunted any length of time, you've seen some type of heat exhaustion at least. And I talked about this on a podcast a couple, maybe a month ago or so. Yeah, I guess it was back end of June, 1st of July. We had a guy that had warrants.

He bailed out and run it from his house. We pulled up, he took off running, ended up doing a track with Pinot, and, this is [00:08:00] twice that I've seen this happen with Pinot is when that back end starts going, boom. Boom. Like he gets a little wobbly and he don't get some big, I've not seen him get bug-eyed yet, but Right.

That back end starts going and he starts losing. Yeah. You get ataxic and weak and Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And I really thought I had done some damage to him 'cause I'm not gonna say I was pushing him, but he just wasn't quitting. Like he wasn't quitting. That's what we run into with these dogs.

They ain't going to quit until they lay down. At least hopefully the ones we're totting around ain't going to quit though. They let you know. It's just, it's in them to run, to catch and Yeah. And that's what we run into. But yeah, I can shoot through a few things here. Yeah.

Go try not to get too bogged down, but, there, there's a difference in heat stroke and heat stress and of course a fever. When we're dealing with heat stroke we're dealing with a marked elevation in body temperature. It's actually defined as anything over 1 0 5 0.8. Which is why it's very important to have a thermometer with you.

Yeah, have one in the box, have two in the box. Have 'em at the house. They're very helpful with not just this, but a, anything. That's the [00:09:00] thing here. We got so many Katie, she's ah, I think I'll go get another. And that's a hundred percent chance that's been a dog's sign in a cow's behind them.

But anyway, so this triggers a systemic inflammatory response in multiple organ dysfunction over time. Once, once they get hot and they're hot for some time. That's what we run into and it's just because their body is, can't dissipate heat effectively at that temperature.

Let's talk about that real quick before you get into the medical terms because you and I just had this conversation and what people don't understand is, and if you're in a high humidity area we looked at it and you said it was up in the high eighties today, right? Temperature's 90 degrees.

High 80 humidity, the dog sweats through, through panting that n on like humans. Everybody knows this, right? Humans sweat. Dogs pant. Exactly. When the moisture in the air is of that high quality, the dog cannot release that moisture through [00:10:00] panting. So I e that turns into the dog overheating. And that's one of the four mechanisms we'll hit on. Yep. To dissipate heat, yep. Evaporation. And that's how they're dissipating heat when they're this hot. 'cause the other three methods just don't work. And we'll go over them, but the heat stress is a little bit different.

Both of these are a result of an external source that a dog can't escape. Just heat stress is 1 0 4. We define it as 1 0 4 to 1 0 5 8. And, this is before a lot of times you'll see the signs that we're talking about, like with Pinot, you might see a little bit of ataxia.

The dogs are going to fall behind and they're not gonna be Right. But they're not to that danger zone. And the thermo regulatory, the hypothalamus, the set point's still the same with heat stress and a heat stroke. Unlike a fever, when a dog has an inflammatory response.

They, that set point's 1 0 2 5 per se. Nine nine to 1 0 2 5 is normal body temperature in a dog. So the hypothalamus, that's a set point that they drive up, to fight bacteria or whatever, a virus, fungal, whatever it might be. And even pain, [00:11:00] with pain, the, that set point will go up to increase the amount of inflammation where they're injured.

Or an injury, whereas, that's not the case. Of course with heat stress and a heat stroke. But some risk factors, the, an ambient temperature over 89.5 is when, some heat loss from conduction, convection radiation and evaporation happens. And what that is, is, conduction away a dog.

Cools is one is conduction. They lie on a cool surface. And that's you see it a lot walking from a tree. The dogs are all amped up and after you get done screaming and cussing at 'em and they finally wind down, you're on your way back to the truck. And if you're like me, you're a little overweight and you're panting too and you're wanting to lay down and while you're resting you'll see 'em, they're kicking leaves out.

They're trying to get down to that cool soil to lay down. Because they transfer that into their body. Yep. Whereas convection is air blown over the skin that cools the dog. Radiation, and we're gonna go over that a good bit 'cause it's a big deal with this is where they vasodilate so, all of the blood flow that's generally centralized, [00:12:00] whenever they have a heat stroke, their vessels get bigger and they move that blood flow out to the periphery.

And that's how they blow off a lot of heat that way. Through infrared heat waves. And then fourthly, and very importantly is of course evaporation, which is done through panning. And, the mucus membranes and everything cool. The air as it comes in goes to the respiratory tract, oxygenates, the red blood cells, and then the blood goes and peruses all of the tissues and vital organ function.

So that's the four ways that we'll be talking about. And yeah. When the air is humid, evaporative cooling doesn't happen efficiently or effectively at all. It just, it doesn't work. So they're sitting there paning, you look in their mouth, they got that thick saliva. And it's coated all over their soft palate and they just.

It's not working effectively whatsoever. So the risk factor of course is that ambient temperature, the humidity, and then what we're doing during it, of course, we're setting ourself up for it. But it is what it is. We can hunt these next 53 days or what fortunate for this state of Virginia.

Unfortunate. But anyway, we won't go there. Water [00:13:00] availability of course is very important. Some things that decrease hit dis heat dissipation is of course the high humidity confinement and poor ventilation, which is something worth hitting on with dog boxes. Dog boxes. When you put the dogs back in there, I don't care how open it is, you got four or five dogs crushed in each side. You put your hand in there. Yep. And it's a big deal. And we'll hit on that, a little bit more here in a little bit. Obesity. Underweight dogs. Dogs that are outta shape. Shape, yeah. That's huge. Prior heat strokes, once a dog strokes once. It's very likely to happen again.

If it is a true stroke. Now I'm not talking about heat exhaustion, right? All of our dogs have heat exhausted. Yeah. I mean there's just, there's no way around it when we're hunting this time of year. But dogs that actually stroke out are very likely to stroke out again. So one big thing too is acclimation or acclimating to the temperature.

And a dog does that over time, but it takes time. And we see a lot of heat strokes. Like we'll see a lot of dogs from West Virginia that heat stroke in the spring, and it's not real hot yet, but, it'll be cool in the [00:14:00] sixties. Then you might have a day that jumps up to the high seventies. Them dogs haven't acclimated yet.

They go run hard, make a tree, go to make another tree, and then they end up stroking out. It's because the acclimation process hasn't really. It happened yet, and it happens over a period of 60 days. They'll start to conserve more water. There'll be some salt retention, there'll be plasma expansion, and then their cardiac output will increase.

And and again, that happens over, 60 days, which is another thing to consider, how are your dogs housed? Are they, out in the element? If they are, that's good on acclimation opposed to being inside or being in a cooler environment if they're in there all the time.

I just told my guys back our last training day so this was the end of July, mid-July. Everybody had their windows up air condition's running full blast. I had my, I pulled up in the shade and had my windows down and my air condition cut down. They're like, what are you doing? I'm like, because when I take that dog from that, that 60 degree temperature, and I put him out here in this 85 degree [00:15:00] temperature, it's harder on him then letting him sit there.

And work through it exactly like he and an old an old one of the first canine schools that I went to, the guy Gary Robinson, I can't remember his first name. Robinson was from Tennessee. And that's what he said. He said, don't just keep, yes. When the sun's beaten down and you're out in the wide open parking lot and you've got the heat coming from the pavement and the car, which mine's black, yes, absolutely. But during those training sessions, I'm very cautious or I'm trying to help the dog so I'm not hurting him in the long run. Yeah, no, that's using your head for something other than a hat rack there. Yeah. 'cause you wouldn't think, you're trying to keep yourself cool in the car.

And then no, absolutely. So there's two different types. There's an exertional and a non exertional, we see a lot of non exertional too, just old fat bulldogs. You see it a lot in Mississippi. They just go outside to take a pee and the next thing you know, they're stroked out 'cause they're brachycephalic with a smush face and can't draw air.

And but we're not gonna go into that. Of course we're dealing with exertional heat stroke with strenuous exercise. So just to [00:16:00] try to hit on kind of the pathophysiology real, I'll try to be pretty quick with it, but this just describes why things happen, how they happen. But when a dog can't effectively dissipate heat, they.

It causes inflammation, coagulation, and tissue disorder. So anything over 1 0 5 0.8 results in nervous tissue damage, the nervous system can get damaged. Now it has to be there for a little bit, you're talking, 10, 20 to 30 minutes. It's not like they're gonna touch that. And all of a sudden, neurons are gonna start dying.

And as they climb over 1 0 7, we have cellular apoptosis, which is just where the cells start lysing and dying. And over 1 0 9, that's where you start to get in a renal death and you know it's irreversible and it stays over there for some time. That's when you get the old drain damage.

Or brain damage. And neurons die. And when a neuron dies, it's dead. It doesn't regenerate. Regenerate. And that's the same thing with a nephron. A nephron is the cells that make the kidney up hepatocytes, which make the liver up. They do regenerate. A lot of these dogs we see do go [00:17:00] into kidney failure and all hit on that.

But. During the thermal injury the physi physiologic response is vasodilation. So the central body temperature gets so high that the dog vasodilates to move more blood flow to the periphery where they can, achieve the cooling that we talked about earlier. Radiation and the infrared heat waves come off of them.

So as it does that, it causes a hypovolemic state because all the blood's going to the periphery, to the extremities. Internally, the cardiac output increases, which keeps up with that. But then, all this time they're sitting there panting ineffectively. They're just getting hotter, and they're getting hotter, and they're getting hotter.

Eventually cardiac output decreases, and a normal physiologic response is vasoconstriction. And when that vasoconstriction happens, the blood flow can get to where it needs to go more effectively. Ig the kidneys, 25% of cardiac output goes to the kidneys and the brain and everywhere else. But during a heat stroke that doesn't happen.

The vessels stay big. So these dogs go into hypovolemic shock. And at this point, [00:18:00] you're getting you're getting to the snowball effect of death. It's starting. And what temperature is this? This is once they've been, it can vary exposed and most of the time you'll check 'em and your thermometer won't even read it.

They're that hot. Yeah. When they're to the point where they're flat out and they're down. You're, you. I encourage everyone, get a thermometer and even after a tree, just check their temperature. You can see which dogs are gonna be more tolerant to heat and which aren't.

So let's look, and maybe we're jumping ahead, but let's go over that real quick. I know we've all seen it or done it or whatever, but we're gonna do it. Anal. What? How long do we hold the thermometer in there? So get a digital. A digital, yeah. Yeah. I've lost a few. Mercury up. Some hind ends.

Don't get a mercury. That's always an awkward conversation. Hey, we're gonna have to get these o b forceps out and dig it outta your dogs hind end. The digital is kinda hard, so yeah, stick it in there. You want to get all the way up until where you can read actually what the thermometer reads.

Rectally. And I always turn the thermometer on [00:19:00] outside of the dog, and it's gonna say 98.6, and then it's gonna start flashing lines. That's when you insert it. And the dog's high down. Yep. Keep it in there until it beeps. Once it starts beeping. That's your temperature. And most of these dogs, if you do that, you're gonna find that they're so high that it won't read.

Hopefully no one has to do that. But it'd be it. I've always wanted to, and I never have, but it'd be nice on the days that, you treat two and it's noon and you knew you shouldn't have, and you get everything back to the truck and, pop a thermometer and all of 'em just see where they're at.

And age has a lot, the older dogs don't tolerate heat as well that have had a lot of miles put on 'em either. And collar, you're talking about the black car app. Black dogs will overheat a lot quicker. Yep. But yeah so with the hypovolemia at that point, that's something that needs to be addressed more so than we can really do in the field.

And that's when you need to start thinking about, Calling a vet or making some plans for that. But onward with what happens. So the neurologic system, as this heats up though, a lot of times they'll get over, one 12 to one 15. And that's where a lot of times you'll see the neurologic signs.

Like you'll [00:20:00] have a dog that'll have a seizure, or you'll have a dog that's extremely ataxic or you look in their eyes and it's like they're on a whiskey drunk. It's like your buddy, you look at 'em and say, he ain't there no more. We gotta get him to the house. Yeah. But they're collapsed, they're stumbling.

They, what happens is the vessels, as they're vasodilated, the endothelium, which are the cells on the inside of them are really stretched out and they start to die 'cause they're hot and they get edema just fluid leaks out and they get cerebral edema in their brain. And that's when you'll start to see a lot of the neurological signs with the GI system.

And this is, I'm everyone that has had a dog heat stroke or heat stress has probably seen this, last year on this table here, old Her koa, she was sloughing her whole intestinal lining here. Yeah. Thinking, we eat on this thing, but we got a towel down here. But anyway, so the direct thermal injury and poor perfusion to the gut.

'cause all the things centrally aren't getting profused. Again, because of the radiation, the radiate heat you'll see really bad GI ulceration. Oftentimes they'll start vomiting [00:21:00] blood and they'll start just blowing nasty bloody diarrhea. If you look at it, you can see their intestinal lining in it.

And they're sloughing the lining. And this is where we can get gut derived sepsis. All of that barrier is gone. Our gi tracts full of bacteria. And the BA bacteria will translocate, through the gut wall and into the vessels, and that's where they'll develop sepsis and they'll go septic and With the liver. The liver also, it's basically cooking, it's right in the center of the body just cranial to the stomach. And it's very important in, synthesizing clotting factors. And with worsening heat stress and the heat stroke that we run into coagulopathies, which we'll touch on in just a second, but before that, the kidneys, so 25% of cardiac output goes to the kidneys.

Blood is shifting from the dog's core to the periphery. And to cool the kidneys. Actually, sometimes they'll start bleeding because they are so under perfused in their cooking. So when you say 25% of the output, the cardio output, [00:22:00] let's just put that layman's terms, that means 25% of what the heart's pumping goes to the kidneys.

Absolutely. Okay. I'm with you. Yep. Yep. So you gotta remember the dehydrated, 'cause their pant's not, they're not effectively cooling. They're also in hypovolemic shock because all their blood's going out and trying to get cooled so their kidneys are getting hammered. And that's where we experience, see a lot of dogs go into kidney failure.

If we save the dog, that's great, but a lot of times you'll recheck blood work and they'll be amic, meaning their kidney, veins are up, values are up. And sometimes they won't be amic because 66% of renal function has to be gone. Before we even see clinical signs on the lab. Their values will be normal.

If they got fif, half of their kidneys are working. I gotcha. That's interesting. Yeah. There's a lot of perfusion issues whenever a dog heat strokes and the kidney is the one organ that we see that if dogs do make it there's a lot of lasting damage on the kidneys and cardiac as well.

They'll throw cardiac arrhythmias. You put a e c g on these dogs and it's wonky, real wonky. [00:23:00] And we have to treat those accordingly. And the heart also is cooking. It's in the center of the body too, and it's having a lot of thermal injury as well. So it's it's like they're cooking inside out.

They pretty much are. That's exactly what they're doing. Yeah. We're just, I'm just basically describing what that cooking's doing to 'em, and once sepsis and systemic inflammation Yeah, that's what ends up really getting them is they go into multiple organ dysfunction syndrome and they go into what we call disseminated intravascular coagulation, and the increase in the body temperature, basically, they have anti-inflammatory effects going pro-inflammatory effects going.

And cyto, there's a bunch of things that happen that are so in depth. Hell I can't even remember what happened. 'em are. But basically as this is happening and a thermal injury is going on, they can go in, they, a lot of them do go into to D I C and they just start bleeding.

You'll pick their gums up and they'll have what we call, pure puria and acumatic hemorrhage on their gums. They'll just be bruised, and then their belly, they'll start developing bruising on their belly. And,[00:24:00] that's where, oftentimes, all the time, I'll have a conversation with clients and say, look, what's our goal here?

This dog is. W maybe going to recover. You're gonna have to, spend all be willing to be all in and it could be thousands of dollars. And realistically, this dog's running days are likely over, and not always, but usually, you'll ne that dog will never perform like it did before it had that heat stroke.

If it's that severe, but another thing with pain management, and a lot of people do this and have NSAIDs on hand or non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like carprofen or Reil Meloxicam, stuff like that we use when a dog gets beat up and we all know you'll have extra and you have it laying around, it's contraindicated to give a dog non-steroidal anti-inflammatories that is experiencing even heat stress or heat stroke.

'cause the liver metabolizes NSAIDs or carprofen il. And the kidney. Excretes it. So if the kidney's getting hit and [00:25:00] you're giving NSAIDs and causing the, the kidneys are, you can cause a lot of no damage. Damage to So you're saying do not, absolutely. Okay. Make sure I was un I, yeah.

I thought that's what you do. Not, you used some big word Garrett that I didn't understand. I didn't either. I just said it but that's certainly a big no-no. We use opioids which, are of course a controlled drug when they come in 'cause they are super painful. Yeah. But yeah, and that's the nuts and bolts of a lot of the pathophysiology on what happens.

There's certainly a lot that's left out, but and now I think would be a good time to talk about cooling the patient. You get to the tree or you have a dog that didn't make the tree and you go find it. And that Uck is laid out. Laid down. And in rough shape. So everyone wants to go to the creek and go to the creek and dunk him and just leave him there.

That's I'm guilty. I've done, yeah. I've done it. And the thing that I always tell, other veterinarians is 'cause they've never been in that situation. It's we're in the woods. We're not, we don't have access to all the things that you think we should. We have.

We don't have it. Whenever you dunk a dog and you leave them in the [00:26:00] creek, they can't dissipate that heat, that we were talking about with radiation. And they're internal a sauna and you're keeping Yeah. You're keeping the heat in. You're actually making it worse.

Let's back up a second. 'cause I've had this happen to two of my dogs in the past. When I get in there and I realize that this dog is having heat issues and I don't know if it's exhaustion or stroke or whatever. Is it best for me to try to carry that dog out or. Like one dog I carried for a while, but she was bigger.

She was a bigger female and I was a mile and a half in Yeah. I had three other dogs with me, so I carried her, I'd make her walk, I'd carry her, I'd make her walk. And literally she was down for a year before I got her back. Yeah. And yours were exactly right. The heat she never did in heat again. But anyway, so do I need to think about and a lot of these upland websites have a sling that you could put in your bag. It's small, it rolls up. It's smaller than a, if you rolled your sock up, is that [00:27:00] something that I should be looking at? Or what should I do with that dog?

So if it's, he, if it's a heat stroke, you won't have a choice because the dog, you're gonna have to carry it or drag it, 'cause it's gonna lay there. But with heat exhaustion I'll look on the Garmin and see, where is the closest water because if I got a mile and a half to the truck dragging six dogs, and water's 200 yards, I would, I'd be tethering dogs to trees and taking that dog to water.

And when you go to water, you know you want to work the water into the dog's coat and it's fur. You can cup water. It's actually they cold water causes vasoconstriction, right? Which that, that is contradicts what you wanna do, contradicts what you want to do. So if you read a textbook, you're supposed to use room temperature, water, or hot water.

That's real practical out there in the bush, the best thing to do is cup water out and just cover the dog, rub her belly, rub her feet, rub her legs, rub her back and just get them wet because that's going to help dissipate that heat. And then, as you're walking out and air's blowing over, it's [00:28:00] gonna cool the dog.

And that's really all that you can do in that situation. And that's heat exhaustion, not heat stroke. And even with a heat stroke, it's all you can do. Yeah. But with heat ex exhaustion, it's good to do as well. But I thought we were supposed to stay away from water 'cause we were making it worse.

So you're not wanting to dunk them and leave them in the water. Yeah. Just make sure we clarify that. Yeah. Yeah, getting water is good. Letting them drink is good. Water availability is super important, especially once you get back to the truck. These dogs that are exhausted, they got to have water, but with a dog that's heat stroke stroked or heat exhaustion, water is good to put on 'em. But you just don't want to submerge them in water. Okay. Okay. You want to wet them and and work the water in. And then what we do at the clinic is we put fans on 'em. And I had mentioned alcohol when we did that LA that's Boone. Oh. Yeah. So that's changed. That's changed. And that's the thing about veterinary medicine, man. It's changes. We might have something new next year, right before training season that we find out. But the alcohol theory that causes vasodilation has actually been disproven.

[00:29:00] And it said that it can maybe be worse for 'em because they might take some of that alcohol up in their bloodstream. Oh. So yeah. That's no longer recommended. Okay. But yeah, so you want to get 'em wet and then you just gotta get 'em outta the woods and at that point, they need to be in the truck.

You need to have the AC full-blown. If the old truck ain't got no ac, I'd put her up on a rig rack and I'd make time. Yep. And and get to the vet, especially if it's a valuable dog and the, with the heat exhaustion, and you should know this because hopefully you have a thermometer, if you get back to the truck and they're 1 0 6, 1 0 5, 1 0 6, they're still getting around.

Get 'em water, you wet 'em down. Cool. Put 'em up on a rig, cool 'em off, put 'em in the truck, and then recheck their temperature in, 30 minutes. The journey on Hounds Man XP has teamed up with one T D C. This dual action support for oral health and mobility in our dogs. This unique supplement is so effective that it is recommended by top veterinarian experts worldwide to maintain and improve our dog's health in four different [00:30:00] areas.

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But yeah so get 'em on the rig and get 'em going, and get 'em cool. And then recheck their temperature in, 15 to 20 minutes or whether than the vehicle or what. And there's a few things not to do that a lot of people want to [00:32:00] do don't ever soak a towel and put it over the dog, which, you think you're doing good because the towel is cold, but you're actually not, because it's holding heat in and heat, it's like a thermal blanket, heat disc.

It really is. Yeah. But it's crazy how many dogs will come in that are, have been covered up in a towel. Oh, wow. It's just, yeah. It's essentially a blanket. But yeah, the checking and rechecking the temperature is extremely important, even in heat exhaustion, dogs, because these dogs will be cooling down and they're gonna reach 1 0 3.

And that's the number that you quit trying to cool a dog off. Okay. 'cause their hypothalamus gets jacked up during this time anyway. Their brain was cooking at one point, so they can't, they'll actually get hypothermic, you can, you'll recheck their temperature and the next thing you know, it's too low for the thermometer to read.

And that causes a whole, you're starting to get to the point where you're peeing up a rope when that happens. Even in the clinic, when we're, all, a lot of times lavage these dogs, I'll stick a hose up their hind end and I will give them just room water, temp enemas, and just roller.

But you [00:33:00] gotta watch, because, you can get them too cold, too quick. And then that's a whole nother bag of worms. So 1 0 3 is the cutoff. The cutoff that you want to quit doing what you're doing. And reassess the dog. How is he doing now? If the dog started having seizures, another good thing to keep in your box is karo syrup.

These dogs will get hypoglycemic. Yep. Their blood glucose will drop. If you're on the way to the vet and the dog is neurologic and you're looking in his eyes and he ain't looking back, no one's home. He's had a seizure or, they they're stumbling around.

Rub karo syrup on their gums. Do not pour it down their throat. Just soak your finger in it and they'll ex absorb it through their mucus membranes. But another good thing that, and this isn't, hasn't been proven yet, but I had a sport dog client. She's actually a veterinarian as well. I tried to call her to find out some information on this, but they were doing a study where they actually opened their mouth and have a ketchup bottle with water and they spray off their soft palate because if you ever look their soft palate's so goofed with thick saliva.

Yeah. They're saying that might really aid in [00:34:00] helping them cool as they're panting, but I wouldn't recommend doing that be, I don't know if it works, and you don't wanna waterboard him, obviously get an aspiration pneumonia. Yeah. We gonna get him cooled off, but damn he's got pneumonia.

Yeah. But and then once these dogs recover, even the heat exhaustion dogs, it's very important for 'em to get some groceries in them because, as the GI system, even if it got a little insult, you might, he might not be sloughing his lining, but he's probably gonna blow diarrhea. And he might even blow diarrhea for a day or two.

Yep. Get some wet food, boil some chicken, some white rice. Don't be making no bacon or anything like that, get him something bland. That's easy on their belly and get them eaten. That really helps it all out a lot when this happens, is getting them back on feet. Yeah. Quick.

So I've got a couple questions for you. Yeah. And I've learned, I've been told this, probably throughout my hunting career just making sure it's still a go or no go. Like I carry Gatorade with me in my car for per pinot 'cause it's got the electrolytes it's got some sugar in it.

I mix, [00:35:00] I will mix that with his water. Sometimes. And of course, you know that one of our, one of our main sponsors dogs our tree. They have the glycerol that's already pre-mixed. Yeah. Hydrate 1 0 1 and it's Right. It's, they already have it. It's a great product. I used it last year. And I didn't see some of the problems that the other guys had.

But again, y'all were running a little bit harder than I was too. Like I wasn't dumping it. 12 o'clock in the daytime, Garrett, man, when that, when they cross the road, what you going to do? You gotta dump a box. I got mine pad locked at 10 o'clock. I got so many dogs around here, but I gotta run 'em.

No, but that's the way to be. That's, and that's what I preach, but man, sometimes hard struggle. It's hard. Yeah. So I u I have Gatorade, of course. I used the glycerol, I used it last year in my water before every run. It was a great idea up till mid September, and I think I slacked off. A lot of us have significant others, wives, girlfriends, whatever that are nurses.

[00:36:00] I've got and I got this from you. But I carry a couple drip bags with me now. Of course, I've got you with me 90% of the time. Or somebody that's in the nursing field that can pop that in between shoulder blades and roll with it. And that's something that, in a heat exhausted animal it's subq fluids, they're never gonna hurt.

But in a true heat stroke dog, you're peeing upper rope. Yep. With all the things that we just went over, they need an IV catheter and shock doses of fluids. And that's what they gotta have if they're going make it. You don't want to settle on those do, I've had clients that have done, I've seen a lot of good dogs die that, they'll heat stroke at 10 and they don't want to call, this is back before I was working emergency medicine.

They don't want to call, or they think the dog's gonna be all right. And then, four o'clock in the morning when he's still laterally recumbent and his intestines are falling out of his hind end and, he's looking comatose, it's too late. At that point. We're done. I've had a lot of 'em die on the way in, it's like wind, heat stroke. But that goes back to the having a thermometer. Yeah. Like that really, that's a guys, that's a [00:37:00] $2 99 cent fix. Yep. Right there. It's, there's there, yeah.

There's no excuse for us not having a couple of those laying around in everybody's vehicle. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's, they're so handy too, just, and being a dog man and dealing with your dogs when they're off they're sick, they're not eating. Check their temperature. There's so much I'll even, I have a buddy and, when he gets a dog tore up and, it's not bad, but it may be, he's debating on taking it or calling 'em about getting it sewed up or something.

He'll check their temperature. And if they marinate overnight, that's the first thing he does in the morning. Because again, that set point with inflammation changes, like we were talking about, the difference in a fever. A dog that gets tore up pretty bad, they'll develop a fever. Correct.

And he'll check, he'll check that next morning and if it jumped a degree, but he'll be coming, and there's a lot of value in taking a dog's temperature. Yep. A lot of value. So let's talk about the box. I don't remember where I was at, but this has been probably 15, a good 15 years ago or so.[00:38:00]

Oh, we were up north hunting midsummer July. Hot in, in New York. You can't turn loose after it's 80 degrees. Oh really? Yeah. You cannot. But we had a hard run, caught the dogs up and one of my buddies was with me and we were in two separate vehicles and we stopped at the GA gas station.

I said, whatcha you doing? He said, I'm getting a couple bags of ice. I said, bag's, ice. He said, yeah, I'm gonna throw it up in the dog box. So he literally got two bags of ice, left them full, busted them, throwed 'em up, just the bag and All right. Laid it up in there and man, them dogs was like laying right against it.

Yeah. Cooling. And I've, I've done it since, since I seen him do that. Of course. Like I said, that was 15 years ago. Yeah. So what are some, what, like my box is not as open as you guys mine's got the slides on it and that's it. It don't have rig holes or whatever. But at the same sense I never have more than six dogs in my box.

That's a big thing there. Yeah. And putting 'em on the rig when they get that is 'cause you're achieving the airflow and convection cooling is happening,[00:39:00] as you're driving down the road and they're on the rig. They're gonna cool off.

Yeah. A lot more effectively. And then conduction dissipate and heat talking about lying on a cool surface. That's exactly what them dogs are trying to do when you throw the ice in the box. But you have to be careful. If they're just exhausted, that's fine. But if they're truly heat stroking, that's a whole different deal.

But yeah. That's a great idea with the ice and just having an open box I think helps. But all, I got five holes in each side of my box and then the box I had last year had three and it got decent ventilation. But it's crazy when you stick your hand in there, you're like, gee, mini Christmas, it's a 10 or 15 degree difference.

Yeah. Easy. Yes. And easy. And like you say, when you got five or six dogs in each side, they're cooking. Yeah. And the other thing I think we hit on a little bit, having a water box on the truck and when you get back to the truck, even after the first race, if you tree one early and you going go try to find another one.

Water. All the dogs. Yep. And that's extremely important. Yep. Yeah. [00:40:00] So let's talk about outta shape. Yeah. 'cause you and I talked about it before we walked in here. You was asking when I was gonna hunt, and I'm like, my main goal for the next week, maybe two weeks, is to get my dogs out when it's cool, whether that be early morning or evening.

And just exercise 'em. Yeah. I have no expectation of catching a bear now, like you said, one runs across the road and I can pack it up and it's not a hundred degrees. Absolutely. It's gonna get I need to acclimate my dogs. Yeah. And that I've been trying with my young dogs that, I can road effectively around here.

I've been roading them. And, but there's a big difference in roading a dog and getting them in. There's a whole, that's a whole different deal when they're chasing a bear opposed to just roading and exercising. Now, don't get me wrong, it's certainly better than not.

Yeah. But yeah. And these young dogs are a lot more tolerable, but you can make an old dog out a young dog quick. I see a lot of these boys in West Virginia. They run, they catch a lot of bear and run all the time. At six years old, that dog's old. You, they're not gonna have a 10 year old dog.

[00:41:00] Yeah. 'cause he, they're either gonna move it on when he is six because he is slowing down and he is not contributing or he's going to die. Yeah. Because of just the wear and the tear. Yeah. But yeah, that's the thing is getting them in shape, running them, and then feeding to condition.

Man, that's a huge one. I always get people How much do you feed? Every dog's different. That's right. There's a body condition score chart that, it's one through nine and one to three is, is underweight. And four to six is, is what we consider ideal. And seven to nine is obese. And I got some dogs that eat twice what other dogs eat because they run the chain.

All they're idiots, they run hard and they do what they need to do to keep. Sticking around. But you gotta feed that dog different. Yeah. And that dog that has a little bit more sense than lays around in the box and he's not, and then all their metabolisms are different.

So feeding to condition and having a dog, fit is very important as well. Yeah. Really important. Yeah. I cut so Pinot about, I guess about mid-May. Towards the end of May, I cut his food back [00:42:00] and he looks really good right now. You can almost count the last three ribs, right?

Al almost, you can see two, it depends on how he's standing or turning. You can maybe see the third one. Yeah. And all my guy, my gain I got, they're like, man, you got that. I'm like, it's summertime. Yeah. Any extra weight is putting extra burden on him. Absolutely. Like they, yeah. Y'all guys, they got these GSPs and I'm like, fatter mug.

Yeah. They need to go on a diet. Yeah. Come on, Uhhuh. You can't operate in the heat. Like that. But I also understand that if my dog's overweight and I try to cut his food the week before season, and then I put that burden shock on him Absolutely. For running him. Absolutely. I'm just making it worse too.

Yeah. Yeah. You and it I assess him every time I feed him, when I feed, as you see, all my dogs are on chains for the most part, and rock or dirt. And I pick them their feces every day and I look at 'em. Yep. And if they're starting to see a little bit of the top of their hips or they're getting a little rib or or maybe they're getting a little too fat and I put my hands on 'em too. I feel What kind of fat cover they got? I got [00:43:00] one crossed up dog out there. If they all ate like that, I'd just cut my feed bill in half. I feed her half of what I do every and she stays fat.

She stays in good condition. So every dog is different. That's right. And feeding the condition's important. I like to see 'em going in like this time of year at about. A four to a five, A six I think is too fat. But now a six is normal, it's a normal, four to six is normal.

But, I like to see the last couple ribs. And but yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about bees real quick. Yeah. So I've been in, this happened to be a couple years ago. Went into the tree, the dogs were off the tree, and I couldn't understand why. I'm like, where are they going?

They're barking I go in and I'm literally standing right beside, I'm standing in a yellow jacket's nest. They start eating me up. Oh, man. The dogs had several stings on 'em. Is there something I can do? Is there something that I should do to maybe curve that?

Yeah, diphenhydramine, Benadryl. Benadryl, that is it, it's an antihistamine. There's a huge histamine response when a dog gets stung by bees. I see 'em all the time at the emergency [00:44:00] clinic. They'll come in and they're muzzle swollen. We don't know what happened, but.

Was it a beer, was it a snake? Leave him here overnight and I'll watch it and then I just slug him with Benadryl. I give it under the skin. I give it a shot of Benadryl, but a pill works just fine and it's a milligram per pound. Oh, and I was gonna ask, that was my next question.

How much? Yeah. Milligram per pound. 50 pound dog gets 50 s, 50 milligrams, which it comes in 25 milligram tablets, so that's two tablets. And you can do it as often as every eight hours. Generally it's very rare to see a dog come in that's been stung by bees that needs much more than that.

If they get, if there's a fair amount of swelling around the airway, then you know, we might reach for some other things, but usually there's not, their muzzle will swell up. And even around the airway sometimes if I know it was a bee, I'll just do the Benadryl and I'll keep the dog overnight and just monitor it.

I actually had one last or two nights ago had a bunch of swelling down around its throat latch there under, its under its chin. And the guy was worried about it being a snake and he didn't have money for anti VEing and, so we kept the dog and after [00:45:00] Benadryl within three hours, it looked a lot better.

So let's talk about the snake bite real quick so we know Bryce done a podcast, you guys, if you hadn't listened to it deep and lonely with with Dr. Bro and he has some really good information on there. And Benadryl was one of the things he talked about, right? With the snake bite. Is there any other thing we should do?

And I know we, you'll talk about the anti-venom, but Yeah. The thing, what we should do and what we shouldn't do. I haven't gotta listen to that podcast yet and I plan on it, but Yeah, anti VEing is the treatment, if you, the A V M A, that's what they recommend and it works.

A vial, 650 bucks and you gotta have an IV catheter, they gotta have IV fluids, they're hospitalized. I've had dogs that have taken three vials before. And the truth of the matter, if a dog gets bit by a copperhead in the leg or something like that, it really depends on how much venom they get.

A lot of those dogs, that whole leg will blow up. It'll get very swollen. And I'll have people that say, Hey, and I'm one of them, if that's a young dog and he got bit [00:46:00] and he is not going a whole lot I'm not about to spend $1,200 to give him anti VEing. I'm just, we got three kids running around here and student loans and bills like everyone else.

But, steroids and antibiotics actually buy, they V M A now are contraindicated now. It's not a perfect world. I'm not gonna sit here and say that I've never give steroids to a snake bite 'cause I'm not a liar and I'd be lying. But as far as recommendations Benadryl is a big one.

The milligram per pound every eight hours. And then I would recommend just reaching out to your local vet. If it's more than that, anti venons not an option. And getting some advice or taking the dog in to be seen. Is there anything else that you think we would run into during the early season?

Right now when it's hot foliage is out, all the vent, all the creatures are out messing around. Is there anything that you think we've skipped over? Not necessarily. I think that's the three big ones. Other things we can hit, anytime of year with just injuries and but I think those are the three. [00:47:00] Three big ones that we're gonna see this time of year, at least that is in my head right now. So let's recap that and then we're gonna, I'm gonna ask you a question. We're gonna wrap it up. All right. So thermometer, guys, there's no sense not having a digital thermometer.

I have a few of them. Yeah. I'm going to when I get to work tomorrow, I'm going to go buy me another one. And I've I have the old one, so I'm gonna upgrade. I'm telling you, I've lo I literally lost one up a dog's hand in one time. Yeah. No. I turned around to writing a chart. I was in high school and turned back around, and it was gone.

The thermometer was we had to go fishing. Yeah. One of the things that I learned from you last year, which I've invested in, is a good set of clippers. So I'm doing that. Yeah. No, that's extremely important. Yeah. Golly, it can't beat that up enough. No. When. People bring a dog in that got tore up two or three days ago because he's not doing good now.

And the hair is literally matted on the wound and it can't drain, you've got to buy a pair of clippers. It's extremely important to get everything clean, get it flushed out[00:48:00] and to assess the wound. I can't tell you how many times I've had holes that end up, going into a body cavity, but no one ever really looked at it.

And it comes in a couple days later. It's yeah. He's herniated. Yeah. We got a, he got, has to go to surgery and Kay Oerp. Yep. Man, you can get that at the dg. Yep. At, again, dollar 99, hook you right up. So for 10 bucks, not excluding the clippers, but for 10 bucks you can have what you need to make a good assessment and get the dog to help.

I e the vet. Or decide that my dog's not there, so I don't need to rush it. Absolutely. Yeah. Without a doubt. So Garrett, I'm gonna wrap this up. Tell me your favorite hunt last year. Oh, what was your favorite one? Man, I had a lot of 'em, but it was probably that bear I killed in the hole.

In the hole? Yeah. And we went back two weeks later and called another one in the hole. Brought you your shell casings to, you mean That's freaking awesome. Oh my gosh. We start, I started, walked in ahead of a holler and the only dog I had that was [00:49:00] reliable at the time and still the only one started opening and Some of my young dogs took off and they were scalding earth and kinda left her.

And I thought they were trashing and they ended up pulling over into a big old holler and catching on the creek and walked for about 30 minutes and ended up tree. And oh, Brandon Thompson. Oh, glad Creek kennels he was with that day. And he ended up packing some dogs in and then old hot rod, old Sambo come and he packed some dogs in the bear come out and it tore a few dogs up and ended up getting in a hole.

And I was going up there and I'd done, decided he was dying. Brandon had seen him and had seen he was a good bear. And we got in there and I was walking up through there. I was tore up like a can of srt and Brandon said Garrett. You dropped your magazine? No.

Turned around. I had one bullet in my pistol and the whole 15 round mag was sitting there on the ground. So I got that and I'm glad I did. And man, we are duct taping and Velcro in your stuff to you this year. I'm [00:50:00] telling you, man, it would've been rough if I would've had one round 'cause we'd have been turning back on him.

Ah, we got in there and wormy Sam's Mac dog, a couple of the young dogs outta Spook and they were in the hole and he was in there just luckily he wasn't a mean bear. He was tearing, he wasn't mean but Right. He tore some dogs up, but and we got, worm don't have a tail and he was the last dog I pulled out and Finally got him out and he had, his jaw was hanging off where he had locked jaws with a bear.

And the bear come out and I mean I was feeding them to him, but I got 15 rounds for a reason I can't shoot a pistol worth a hoot. And they said, oh, hot rod said, got a little Western up in there. And I was like, was Wesley there or was it Carrot? It got real western. And he ended up deciding it was a better idea to back outta the hole.

And that's where he messed up ah, and got in behind him ribs and let pur and we killed him. He died right there. Yeah. About two 50. It was a good pretty bo [00:51:00] bear. Yeah. And man, it was a good time. Yeah. I'm ready to make a lot more memories like that. Yeah. I don't really care to kill 'em, but, a situation like that, don't get me wrong, I like killing, but I but that's not what it's about for me.

It's about the dog I killed one last two year and I have no desire to kill one. I still don't even know why I pulled the trigger. It wasn't, I, Hey, that situation, I don't know how you wouldn't have I didn't have nowhere to go, that's for sure. It was gonna have to be me or him.

I can guarantee he'd have died if I'd have been there. I'll tell you one on Garrett. I don't, we, I don't remember what, which hunt it was. Oh, yeah. We Jeff Shetler was in and his wife and daughter were with us, and we had treated a bear. And anyway, we're hauling ready. Garrett was up in the holler way above us and we were trying to tell him where we were at.

Well, Garrett's dogs filtered in. We tied him up and we had already taken the bear, got it back to the truck. And here comes Garrett. He, literally popping out of the brush. It's like Moses parting the water the Laurel Thicket opened up. Here come [00:52:00] Garrett, and he don't have a radio, he don't have his Garmin, he's lost his phone.

The bear's dead. He don't have a hat. And I'm like, Garrett. And he's I lost everything coming down through there. And I, that's why we poked fun at him. Tell him we're gonna Velcro and duct tape him and tether everything he's got this year. Hey, everything but my soul, my boots that day, it was gone.

I luckily found the Garmin, but it took a while. The radio's still down in that holler somewhere. Yeah. And that's the first time I used that radio, so that's why I got mine tethered. Hey, I got a new, I had a dang. Bino case that I was using, which was stupid. And I got to crawling through, the laurel and everything come undone several times.

So I got a new setup this year. I'm still gonna lose a lot, but hopefully it won't be as much. Don't use the Sitka binocular pack. Do not, because it will not hold your equipment. Simply fact, not fiction. And if anyone wants one, I got one for sale. I'd even give it to you. Yeah. To upgrade, right?

I [00:53:00] done upgraded, but I still got that thing. And I do not need nothing to hold. No bonos not hearing good old Appalachia. Oh, Garrett. I appreciate it. Like I said, I'm going, I'm glad. Hopefully this helps people out, helps people if they do get in that shape to make some really quick decisions and get the dog where they need it, when they need it there.

Like I said, over the several years I've had a couple dogs and you and I just had this conversation about my old Jack dog. I. I honestly think that played a part in what happened to him. I really do. There's cumulative damage happens from heat stress. Yep. I mean it really does. And it can show up six months later 'cause that's Oh, absolutely.

It was four months later for him. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 100%. I appreciate your time and thank you for helping us teach, train, and learn. Yeah, man. And we're gonna get after him next week. Simply fact. Not fiction. That's right.[00:54:00]