Houndsman XP - Kody Lohstroh is Back!

Show Notes

The Houndsman XP Podcast is recorded from camp in Northern New Mexico with Kody Lohstroh, Shorty Gorham and Chris Powell. Shorty has co hosted several episodes of the Houndsman XP Podcast and is always a crowd favorite. Kody is making his second appearance on the Houndsman XP Podcast. Kody is Xtreme Performance in every way. He is the 2009 PBR World Champion Bull Rider, accomplished stock breeder and has carried his constant drive for just being an excellent bad ass into being the most extreme Houndsman that is humanly possible.

The trio discuss Kody’s recent trip to Africa to hunt Leopard. They get the full story of this trip and get Kody’s perspective on on hounds, scenting conditions, terrain and much more. There are several comparison’s made to hunting with hounds in the United States. They dive into cold nose hounds and what that really means. 

If you enjoy great stories by a great story teller and hard core houndsmen, you are going to thoroughly enjoy this episode of the Houndsman XP Podcast.

www.houndsmanxp.com

Show Transcript

[00:00:00] This is the Hounds Man XP podcast

dog. Get that burn here.

The original podcast for the complete Hounds, man, let's get.

The podcast that represent our lifestyle of extreme performance.[00:01:00]

Yeah. Good boy, uniting Hounds, men across the globe from east to west, north to south. If you're gonna catch a cat or a lion, you have to have teamwork. We take you to the wildest places on earth. Yeah. So how many days a week can you spend it? As much as I can, to be honest with you.

Any time that I get I'm out there. Join us for every heart pounding adventure on Hounds Man xp. I'll tell you, like I tell everyone else, I'm gonna hunt whether you're here or not, so you might as well be here.

Thank you for tuning into the Hounds Man XP podcast. I'm your host, Chris Powell, and this week we are going to New Mexico. Literally I'm in New Mexico and we're running [00:02:00] some dogs and checking out Shorty Gorham's new digs here. But we had the great honor of sitting down with, I don't know why we're always sitting down on these podcasts, cuz we record 'em sitting down.

So it's easy for us to just say that. But anyway, Cody Stro. Cody Stro is a PBR R world champion Bull Rider. You can check out his original podcast with us. That was episode thir 2 32. Episode 232. Cody's a natural on the mic. He Hess well-spoken. He represents. The ranching lifestyle. And he represents the Hounds man lifestyle very well.

So we're gonna dive into a lot of things about dogs and, but we're gonna talk about his epic adventure to a faraway land to chase one of the most majestic cats, dangerous cats. This wasn't child's Ga child's play here, folks. Cody is gonna recap his [00:03:00] recent leopard hunt in Africa. We're gonna compare dogs, talk about the dogs that they're using there.

We're gonna talk about sinning conditions. We're gonna compare conditions there to here. We're gonna dive deep into every aspect of it and bring home some key points and some talking points that we can use as hounds men here in the United States. I want to give a huge shout out before we get into this conversation to all of those.

True support is of Hounds Men xp. You guys have been blowing up the Hounds Men XP merchandise store at our website@houndsmenxp.com. I don't know how many orders we've processed in the last month, but it's been an outstanding response. I really appreciate every one of you and you can check out all kinds of cool designs over there on t-shirts, hats, man.

The leather Tumblr that we've gotten from Midwest Laser Works, that's Bryce Matthews [00:04:00] company are great, man. They're just, they're sexy. They're highly functional. It's a great Tumblr with some great artwork on it and did a great job on those. You can check all that stuff out by going to hounds man xp.com, hitting the shop tab and supporting us.

Just spend your money with people that support you and every podcast we do. That's our sole mission. Here is to support this lifestyle for us. Hound Doggs. You didn't tune in to listen to me. Gab. This is a box shaker, and I'm not kidding. You're gonna want li want to listen to this one? How many times do you get to listen to a couple world famous bull riders that are also hounds men?

Let's get the tailgate down. It's time to dump the box. Yeah. Once we get this all figured out. Yeah. So the microphone's kind of, I think it's all good. How you doing Cody? I'm doing [00:05:00] great. It work here. Closer further. Yeah, that looks, that sounds good. You guys sound like shit. I'm gonna turn you down a little bit.

Yeah. Hey that's my main podcast complaint, not your, not with Hounds, man xp because your yours is probably the best of all of 'em. But I will see because I'm hard hearing. So many podcasts, they don't get their volumes correct. So like the host will be like, way down here. Sound is so tough. And the the other is way up here and being hard here, and I gotta turn it up to hear the question, and then that guy starts talking.

This blows my ears out and I gotta turn it down. I'll tell you, let me tell you, this deal here we're wearing headsets that have directional mics, so but if you're trying to do a podcast with somebody and you're wearing, wait, you, we gotta turn that off. You're just, that plane's flying over right now.

Yeah. You're [00:06:00] using, when you're using a standard microphone and a headset, the host knows, they know just to be up on the mic, but your guess a lot of times is, Scared to death of that mic. And they sit back and so you crank your levels up and there's only so much room we've got inside the post production and our editing software to bring them up.

See? Have you tried that Denberg? I don't even know what that is. It's a podcasting app. Or not app, but program. It does all that for you. So if you talk and your levels here and their levels here, we don't need to be giving away trade secrets on the podcast. No, I'm just saying. Oh. But it, it brings everybody's level together.

I'm gonna have to edit all this out. Sure. Yeah, you are. Just cut it all off. But yeah. So yeah, so we are in, do we wanna tell people where [00:07:00] we're at? Yeah, I think we should, I think we should give the ranch some love. Yeah, we're, yeah. So I'm in Folsom, New Mexico on the Palomas Ranch with shorty the Intimidator.

Gort Gorum shorty. The Intimidator. Gorham and Cody, what is it? Come here. Come here. Ki Come here. Kilo. Come here, kilo. Come here. Kilo stro. Yeah, so there's a story behind that. We're on the mesa this morning and there's a big rain cloud coming in and we're trying to get kilo, one of Cody's dogs back to the side by side so we can beat the rainstorm back so we can beat the rainstorm back.

And all we could hear was, come here, kilo. Come here kilo. So shorty and I decided that it was gonna be Cody. Come here. Kilo stro. I was getting tired of hearing myself say that, but it turns out trying to talk a dog up a hundred [00:08:00] foot rim rock is tough. Yeah. A sheer, there's stuff out on this ranch that will make you fall off and die.

You follow some of this stuff and it's a hundred foot drop straight down. It's got that, but it's it's a huge improvement for where I just came from. Yeah. The Eastern Sierra Nevada mountains like were the scariest. Just treacherous stuff I ever hunted in. Yeah. So being here, I'm happy.

So I like, I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, this is a good country. It's, oh man. It's not hateful. It's gentleman's country. It really is. It's really nice there. There's some hills and some ledges and stuff like that, but it's still you can get around it.

Yeah, you can get around it. Yeah. It's very hunt. It's hunter friendly. Yeah. So talk, tell us about the, your new gig here, shorty. What are you doing there? I took a job. How'd you land at the Paloma Ranch? That I don't know. I got lucky. I got really [00:09:00] lucky anyways. No, just longtime family, friends and I'd come here and hunted maybe seven, eight years ago and took some lion hunters for 'em, guided for, and I told him from that day forward, I just, I fell in love with the place.

And I told him from that day forward, I was like, if there's ever a job opening here, I want it. And so I was working out in California for the U S D A, for wildlife services and this job came up and funding was getting a little tough out there. And I thought, you know what? I'm gonna make the jump.

Here we are. So what is this place? Let's plug it a little bit. It's a 40,000 acre ranch Cal calf operation right now. And we run Escondido hunting. Escondido hunting.com runs we run some elk hunts. We usually take about 15 bull. Bull hunts outta here every year and some cow hunts and we got [00:10:00] some bear hunts and some Miriam's Turkey.

We do some mule deer hunts, lion bear. And a few antelope hunts. Yeah. So we're about 7,100 feet here at the lodge. It's particularly gorgeous this time of year. I've never seen the west so green. Oh man. We've been having rains and actually it's been troublesome here lately because we had, we were getting about anywhere from a 10th to quarter inch, sometimes a half inch a day, and then all of a sudden we got two and a half inches of rain before you guys showed up.

So we've got a bunch of roads washed out. It's, it, we will get 'em all fixed. We got the equipment to do it, but Yeah. It's just it's just a blessing to be here and it's a good place to hunt. You can hunt for right here from the lodge. And just a, just, I don't think you could, I think you could turn a dog loose from right here at the lodge and catch a bear.

I know you could. Yep. I know you could. Yep, I really do. Or lion. Yeah. I'll tell you what, [00:11:00] if you wanted to have fun here just in messing around a couple beagles in this oak brush. Oh, man. Right here around the lodges. There's rabbits everywhere. Oh, cocktails one, one about ran over me out here at the corner of the, but this is a super nice operation.

The housing here is great. The lodge is full service and we're not enjoying that. We're just slumming down here at your place, which is awesome. And eating good food. But yeah, I think we can, I think we counted it one day. I think we can. We can sleep 38 people here. Everybody has their own bed.

Yeah. But, and it is, it's gorgeous. It's just it's a neat place, but it's and the lodge and as gorgeous as it is and everything, the hunting here is just, it's off the charts. Yeah. So lucky to be here. The reason I came up with those nicknames, especially for you, the Intimidator.

Why didn't you come up with that? Why am I that? I was wondering that because Dale Earnhardt NASCAR coming off that Mesa [00:12:00] No, that Mesa today doesn't make sense. That was freaking crazy tough. Was hanging on it. We had him up on the rig rack and What'd you say? He'd been waiting for this. He's been waiting for this his whole life.

No, it was the best day of his life. No, it was the best day of his life. That's what you said? Yeah. He looked it, yeah. He was sitting up there and he just to be fair, And we were in Apor, Polaris, one Polaris range, 1000 with a dog box on the back. And we had Cody's dogs loaded up. But you had said that your window was down on my truck.

On your truck back here at camp was beautiful when I left. I know. But, and in this thunderstorm rolls it, which it does usually. Yeah, it does it, in the afternoon I was trying to get back to save your truck, so Yeah. We did it. We did it. Yeah. And tough, loved every second of it. Oh yeah. He was up on top just riding the loving life.

Yeah, buddy. He was king of the world for 45 minutes there. Oh yeah. They loved it. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Cody, [00:13:00] what you been up to? Man, I've been up to a little of everything. Springtime, we're busy with cattle, all the breeding stuff, getting bulls, bucked. I raised bucking bulls, so we're always getting them calves ready and bucked and sold and this and that.

And then obviously with my family, the kids rodeos and stuff, been busy with them, chasing them around all over. And when I get a chance to slide out here and hunt a little bit, I'm sure gonna take it. And it was good to get the invite to come down here and a bonus that I got to see tough.

And and I'm glad he brought you with him. Just know this, you guys, both of you always had, and you guys knew this before this podcast, but you guys are, Both always welcome here. So the invite's an open-ended invite. Oh, cool. All right, I'll move in. Lemme see. I'll get back to y'all when I'm moving in.

All right. No doubt. Better talk to Candace. She'd move here in a heartbeat. Oh yeah. You came back from a first before we get to the main thing we're gonna talk about cuz we got here this story. But I wanna talk about, I want to talk about how your lion season went, how everything went this year in [00:14:00] Colorado for you.

Yeah, Colorado was treated me great this year. We had good weather. Hunted hard. It was cold weather but a good winter and, caught a bunch of lions and really great dog work. I just, I honestly, this is one of the best winners that we've had for running lions. I felt like the populations are good.

Big Toms are still tough to find, but they should be shouldn't they? They should be. Yeah. They shouldn't be around every corner. You should have to work for 'em. It should be something you put in the effort to get, and it's not a gimme. And I appreciate that about 'em. Yeah. But but no great winner.

And and now, fortunately, being able to do a little springtime, summertime hunting is always a bonus. And and yeah, we had a pretty cool experience too, a few weeks ago. I think we might talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that that's what I want to get into. And I, we talked before, so to break the news to you, Cody's just come back from a little trip to Africa.

And I, I told him, I said, I don't want to hear about it until we're sitting down together. We haven't talked about it at all. There's [00:15:00] haven just been a smidge in or two mentioned, but he said a word. Yeah. What was that word? The mint lion or something. Oh, sba. Sba. Sba. That's the only thing he's ever spoke of is since we've been together soba. Yeah. Yeah. Which, yeah. Now, and Cody's already gonna name a dog. Chumba. So all of you listening, you're not gonna be the first to have a dog named sba now that you heard that, but it is a great dog name. You might have one too. Maybe it's, yeah, we can share it. You had a kilo. I've got a kilo. Yeah.

Okay. Come on Kilo. Come on, kilo. Oh, man. So tell us, where'd you go? Where'd you go over in Africa? Yeah. I went to Zimbabwe. Okay. Yep. Yep. Flew. Flew from Denver to Newark, New Jersey, Newark to Johannesburg, South Africa Johannesburg to Illa whale Zimbabwe, 21 hours of flying. But you've.

Throughout your whole [00:16:00] career, you've flown probably, I don't know how many weekends out of the, or how many flights you've taken for years and years, but what was that journey like leaving here, going that far, just straight flight to flight? Or how'd that all work out? Down there, we broke it up a little bit.

Ended up staying overnight in Johannesburg. Stayed at a great, the great place actually that they pick you up right from the airport, help you process all your firearms and everything. Store 'em for you, feed you next morning and give you a ride back to the airport and send you on your way.

Yeah. But so going down there wasn't too bad. It was kinda, just a long trip coming home. It was back to back to back, 21 hours of flying, 10 or 11 hours of layovers and whew, they've already got your money and they already gave you experience. It's get outta here.

See? Kick you in the bus. See you later. See you later. But, travel's, travel. You just, it is what you make of it. It's never fun. Read some books. Listen, podcasts, hounds been, XP is a good one to listen to while you're traveling. There you go. And Yeah. Yeah. [00:17:00] Travels travel is what you make it.

Oh, a hundred percent. That's and that's something that you're very well versed in that, that's one of the things that you, did, you have to, did you have to fly overseas with PBR ever? I did, actually. I flew over to Australia and rode bulls in 2005 and then was supposed to go to Brazil a couple times, but we never, different injuries and stuff kept me from making it over there.

Just a real quick side note to the African journey. How'd the bulls get to Australia? Because you, were you guys doing fuel the bees so you had to have the point bulls there or do you guys get bulls locally over there? They actually, so the bull breeding program has come quite a ways in Australia since then.

But back then they'd just catch them bulls wild out of the bush and they'd be, full grown, 1800 pound brindles that never seen people and they were wild. Oh my gosh. Did, were you did you go to Hawaii? I did, yeah. So we [00:18:00] went to Hawaii, what, I don't remember what year it was, but we went Hawaii seven.

We actually flew the bulls from here. To Hawaii. Holy smoke. And we went to Maui. We didn't have the, we didn't have the bulls at Maui. We used local bulls. Yeah. And then we went to Honolulu and that's where they had the bulls. It's amazing. Flown into, and it's actually, it's a neat deal, man. They have these boxes that they fly cattle back and forth all the time.

So they had these boxes that fold up and I think they were made by Feather light and you can put four bulls in it and then load 'em on a cargo plane and fly 'em straight over there. Where did they go? It was neat. Oh, neat. Yeah. So what were, who'd you hunt with over there? And just give us, I, I don't even know where to start the story at, man.

There's so much you went over there to, to Leopard Hunt. Yeah. Yeah. That's, was it a full safari or did you go specifically to Leopard Hunt? I went specifically for leopard and just like most hounds, man, that's my dream. My bucket list, if I could pick anything in this world to do, I would want to go to Africa and catch leopards [00:19:00] with dogs.

Yeah. And so just through a series of circumstances, like mutual friends a couple guys I know that have hunted over there with this particular outfitter I learned of this dis discounted hunt. And it's it was actually in my price range, it's still not cheap, but I'm like, oh, I can sell some cattle, I can pay for this, and this is something I've wanted to do my whole life.

I'm gonna pull the trigger. And so next thing you know boom, I'm booked. I've sent my deposit, I bought a trip ticket to Africa and it's real now. How far advance did you start playing it? I think I booked it four weeks out. Holy smoke. Oh wow. Yeah. It fast. I remember you told me you were going and you're going quick.

I didn't know you'd just booked it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it happened in a hurry. And it's holy cow, this is real now and we're doing this and, getting permits and I'm way behind on everything. Most people have. Months and months, if not a year to get all the permitting done. Sure. And I'm just busting butt trying to get it done.

And yeah, got it all done. Flew over there and I went with Edda Safaris. Adrian [00:20:00] Salter is the Hounds man there. And you guys know Leland Rainier. He's been over there and hunted with him. So Anyhow met, he picked me up from the airport and we'd go and we'd actually we'd, he'd started pre baiting before I got there.

And so they had Bates set out and the plan was, we'd go hopefully let these leopards hit Bates. We check the cameras, see what Toms we got hitting and go after a specific Tom. And the Toms weren't hitting Bates. We had females hitting them over and over. What? You show me somewhat?

Yeah, that's it. On my WhatsApp with Adrian. Yeah. That. Anyhow, so these Toms weren't hitting the baits, right? We were getting females in there and it was fun, checking cameras and you're seeing leopards and you're just thinking, just, I'm waiting for that, Tom. We are seeing Tom tracks every day in the roads, right?

Cuz the roads are sandy and easy to see tracks in. And this area that we were in was real, real rocky, not like there are rocky mountains, but just big rock piles. And they called 'em COPIs and they'd just [00:21:00] sit here in here. The, they called 'em COPIs and Gomos and I can't remember which one, one, one's a big one, one's a little one.

But anyhow, there's all these rock piles. And then just dance, dance vegetation like a jungle all the way around. And after a few days these toms were hitting the Bates, but we're seeing Tom tracks. We're gonna change plans. We're gonna start dragging these roads in the day while we're checking Bates, freshen them up.

And then we'd go out, early morning, night time and start cutting roads for tracks pre dawn. Yeah. Yeah. And that actually worked really good when we started doing that. We'd run, we were running cats every day. Yeah. And some of them we'd trail through the night of the day and, the scenting conditions that you get the sun on it and the moisture's evaporating and everything, eventually that track burns off.

Did it burn off or did they hold their scent? I think they held their scent. You think they picked it up? I don't know. But you just had to go there, didn't you sort it? Oh, I had, dude, sorry. But regardless whether they picked it up or the sun burned it [00:22:00] off, it was gone. Some of those leopards we'd trail all day and it had burn off and that was it.

And we try again the next day. Do you want me to give you the ending now or do you want me to No, let's hold the ending. Cause I got questions already about, you said the soil was sandy and stuff like that. Let's talk about the trailing conditions over there. See if there's any comparison to, to what our trailing conditions here are.

Here we're gonna talk about dog styles. There's a lot of different things that I wanna talk about before we get into the. Climax of this story. Yeah, fair enough. Their trailing conditions are pretty similar like our, southwest type conditions. It's dry, it's hot.

There's not a lot of moisture. Fortunately when I went, it was early on in their they're winter, so basically we're in the fall and everything wasn't dried out yet. So they get their rainy season is in the summer or when that's when they get all the moisture and winters dry. So the, there was actually still, the grass was still [00:23:00] fairly green when I got there.

Oh yeah. And that was the nice part actually a lot of, we think of Africa is vast and flat and not a whole lot of vegetation. This was the opposite. There was grass there. Taller than me. And when those cats would run through there, boy, that mean they'd just leave all kinds of scent.

And it was really good. But then they'd get on these, like I said, those rock piles. And depending on how big were these rock piles oh, to get from the bottom to the top, you're probably talking four or 500 feet. Not huge, but big enough. Big enough. Yeah. When you say, when you said rock pile, I was thinking, here's a big pile of rip wrap and here's a small pile of rip wrap.

We're talking about substantial hills of rock. Yeah. Sticking up off this landscape. Yeah, absolutely. And the rocks, or some of 'em the size of school buses. Yeah. Huge rocks. Then when those cats would walk on, on those rocks if that rock would get direct sunlight, right at daylight.

That's tough one real tough to over for them dogs to move through there. [00:24:00] Just like here in the shade, they move it better. And then there's times when we would cross some open areas that where everything had been grazed down by cattle or something. And sometimes, they, the dogs couldn't move it through there and so we'd have to visibly sidetrack.

Did you have professional trackers with you? We did. It was quite the show actually. It's quite incredible to, that's what I was wanting to know, to think how many people, there was probably 10 or 11 people there that was just there for my leopard hunt. Between the, the hound handler, there's a pH we had.

We actually had five trackers and Skinners that went with us everywhere. A game scout that's required by their government there to come with you and make sure you're doing things right. And then at camp, we've got two cooks, a cleaner a guy that, a little, a younger kid that just is always there.

If you need a fire, he'll start you a fire, you need a drink, he brings you a drink and it was cool to see just that many people benefiting from the hunt. I think they need a foot washer at Palm Ranch for shorty. I don't know. You, I just need, you gotta pay some money to [00:25:00] touch them things.

Golly. I just need some new boots, mud boots. Yeah. Hey, what I want to know though is, and I've heard from several people that have been over there, what, like what was your perspective of the native trackers really good that. Really good. Yeah. Those guys, we'd be walking through stuff and you're like, we're never gonna see a track here.

And you'd, here you go, wanna whistle and come point, point out a toe that he found. Just in a little patch of sand. Yeah. And yeah very impressive. And what was equally impressive is when we were cutting tracks at night they have a little seat rack set up on the front of the trucks.

And so the tracker's sitting on the front Yep. And like a rig rack for the tracker up front. Exactly. Yeah. I've done that quite a bit actually. Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty sweet. And he'd sit up there and, he's sorting through hyenas and baboons and all these different tracks, stuff that we don't see.

So like, when I'm looking at tracks, I'm like, oh my gosh, I can tell a cat track, but I don't know. All these other different things, so I'm learning as we go. But but they can [00:26:00] sort through fast. We were cutting tracks way quicker than you would expect. And that kind of conditions, but they didn't miss one.

Yeah. They're on top of it. And they can walk like you wouldn't imagine. No. And I'm gonna tell you right now, if Cody TRO says they can walk, no kidding. You don't wanna try to play with them guys. It's unreal. Like we'd, I'd get after, I'd be following 'em. So there's black mambas everywhere in that area.

Oh God, I'm out. And so I always made sure, cuz I, I don't know a lot about Mambas, but I said, what happens if you get bit by Mamba? You die. Yeah. They said, you go find a nice tree to lay under cuz it won't take long. Yeah. And I was like, golly. And they said, moreover phs and stuff running around shorts and Yeah.

Shorts, T-shirts. Yeah, cause pants, snakes aren't gonna, if you get bit by one of those, I don't, you're dead. Yeah. But no, no snake chaps, no snake boots, yeah. No, yeah. They just boogie ride on through the trackers. They wear long pants and shirts, but but yeah the white guys they're in shorts and t-shirts.[00:27:00]

But but anyhow, so these mambas are out everywhere and so I always made sure I was second or third in line. Oh. That way at least somebody got bit. I knew it was coming. And do you wanna be third? Cuz the first one's gonna alert them. The second the, and then the second one's gonna get bit and then the third guy might, everybody else escapes.

Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. But sorry, where was I going with that? No, the tractor. Oh yeah. How fast they could walk. Yeah. Unbelievable. I don't, I'm not very tall. I got kind of short legs, but I can move and these guys I would walk just as fast as I could possibly go and just barely keeping up with them.

Oh wow. I'm screwed. Yeah. I'm never going. They could cover some ground but yeah. Very impressive. I'd love to have, just learn from them guys for however long it takes. Do you think they could track a leopard. Even without a hound. I do. Yeah, I do. A hundred percent. And I think it's everything I've heard.

Yeah. And I think in Botswana actually, it's quite a bit drier and flatter there. They mainly track 'em by sight there until they get 'em jumped and then they go with the [00:28:00] dogs. I've heard that and I know. A handlesman here in, in the US it's a biologist that's that I've worked with a lot. They could, I, I honestly believe could catch 'em without hounds.

They can track 'em that fast. Like when you find somebody that's, that they're dialed in like that. And that's an art Phil Johnson. Yes. I'm talking about you. But yeah it's impressive. It is an honor. It is not, I think some people are more predisposed for that kind of stuff too. Yes. It's a person that kind of a person has to be very attention to detail type person.

Somebody that, that looks at all the details, doesn't just look at the mountain and say, oh, there's a mountain and there's some trees on it. It's a person that stands there and looks at the mountain, sees the rock formations, the oak brush and the cedar, sees it all. Yes.

But I, I. Larry Anderson was one of the best I've ever been with on Spot [00:29:00] and Tracks. That guy, we could be cruising down the road and he could sort through 'em. The first guy I ever hunted with was Mike Richie. And he could boogie down the road and pick out those line tracks. He is just looking, he's not looking for Elk tracks, he's looking for Lion Tracks. And just being able to sort that out. I was tra I, I was trashing on everything. Elk Track, deer track, coyote track, and I'd just be like, Hey, I see a track over here. And he would just give it a glance and all these guys are good at it.

Just give it a glance and say that's a coyote. Guys, this is a no nonsense podcast. You guys know that. And I'm gonna talk to you about on X cuz I'm sitting in camp in New Mexico right now. I've never stepped foot on this ranch. And I've used OnX so many times in the last three days with their high definition maps.

I can see maces, I can see grasslands, I can see the canyons. I know where the critters ought to be living, and OnX helps me find those spots and get [00:30:00] to those spots. And it totally augments my tracking equipment. I could buy a map card for New Mexico, but this year alone, I've hunted Louisiana, Indiana, Kentucky New Mexico.

Didn't hunt in Colorado, but I was there. Montana, I've been to Montana. So you do the math on the map card, and when you buy OnX at their elite price for around a hundred bucks a year, I get all of these maps that are right on my phone. It's extremely clear. Landowners are marked. State lands are marked.

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Yeah. And that being said, and I agree because we've all but [00:32:00] I wanna back up and just say for the young guys first starting stopping and looking is free. Yeah. Because it's easy to drive by one. Don't think you need to be going at a high pace. Don't think you need to be doing all this stuff like, Stopping and looking is free.

It takes repetition, does, I think there's a lot to tracking too. It's looking for the stride. Looking for the pattern that the tracks are laid out in and Yep. The impression we did a podcast with Cleve d Wire about spotting tracks in that bare ground and stuff.

It was really good. He had some real good advice about how to position yourself with the sun. And it was good stuff. And, okay, that's great point because I've actually walked down roads backwards looking because I want the sun. If you're gonna look for tracks with the sun, you always want the sun on the other side of the track.

So the, so it castes shadow so the shines. Yeah. And so if you're, if you're trying to go one direction, Try to [00:33:00] keep that sun at the other side of the track so that you can get that shine off that track. Yeah. And it doesn't always shine, but it helps you to see it versus going the other way where it's just dark.

Yeah. If the sun's at your back, it's shining into the track, it's washing it out against everything else. Whereas if it's, you've got the track between, or the place you're looking is between you and the sun. Yes. Then you catch that reflection or the shadows and different things.

And they just pop, try to keep, and those guys, I'm sure way better than that, but guarantee just try to keep the, try to keep, pay the other side of track. I did. Yeah. Which direct they would. Yeah, they would actually, during the day, we'd drive specific on roads, specific directions for where the sun was at.

Yeah. And I just feel you just get good at sorting through the noise. Everything's noise. You're looking for the familiar Right. You don't have to know what everything is just what you're after. What you're after. Yeah. And shapes and. Whatever, like I've drove by a track and you see a certain shape of a toe that's mixed in with a bunch of elk [00:34:00] tracks or Yeah. Whatever. And I've drove by 'em, you know how, and then it's you know what, I need to go back and look at that. And you go back and look at it and it's a, but anyways, those guys seem like just I would love to go, just go follow those trackers Exactly.

And learn from those guys. Because it seems from what I understand, they are just far and above of most, Of us over here. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's just the conditions they grew up in, right? They've lived there their entire lives and this is what they know. They've never, a lot of 'em probably never seen concrete roads and cities and stuff like what we have, right?

And so it's, yeah, it's a totally different world. And actually one our best tracker, I thought he was actually deaf too, so he couldn't e it wasn't like No, he though it did get through the noise. Yeah. He filtered out all of it. You are correct. I guess if we're gonna go to holding scent, we might as well go to getting through the noise [00:35:00] too.

Yeah. But no, he was really good. And I, nobody taught him that by telling him anything. Like he just grew up in it. That's amazingly. Huh? Obviously nobody told him. I know. I'm stating the obvious now. Oh man, that's, sorry. You're gonna have to edit a lot of stuff but that's the truth though.

Like you said, a lot of these guys have never seen concrete cities or, things like that. And it's like kids that grow up on a ranch, they learn naturally how to navigate and negotiate and how things work on the ranch and just by being there and exposure and, doing the same things over and over.

Yeah. Exposure, I think that's the word. And the same thing happens for, I mean for me going to a city is completely it's so funny cuz people are, I've met all kinds of people and some people will be like thinking about going out into the woods and the wilderness areas and stuff scares 'em to death [00:36:00] and.

And for me, going to the city, I'm like on high alert all the time, and people that live in the city are just bebopping around, yeah. But at the same time, good for them. You're not high alert on, in, on your home ground. It's still, I've only been here a few months, but anything outta place, you notice?

Yep yep. Cody, we were coming through the, through a gate and he said, what's that down there? I said, oh that's a rock pillar. I've already looked at it five times through my binoculars because it looked like something outta place. Now I know it's there. I'll never look at it again.

But you get familiar with your country and you know what's in place and what's out of place. You know what the threats are. Exactly. You know what the, you know how to navigate. Let's talk about the hounds that they were using, because I think that's what this podcast is a lot about.

A hundred percent. That's what I'm most interested in. Yeah. So what kind of hounds what sent hounds? What were they using? Yeah. So obviously sent Hounds for the most [00:37:00] part. He did have a doggo argentino in there too. Specifically why? Specifically for fighting. Okay. And I'm sure you asked that question.

Yeah. Absolutely. And those, so leopards are a lot more aggressive than our mountain lion. A hundred percent. And they'll charge, they fight most of the time. There's just a whole different deal. And so not only did they have the doggo in there, but they had a lot of dogs in there.

We had 14 dogs in the box. Oh, that's nothing. Not for you. That's the day. Was Shorty gor? Yeah. For me that was a bunch. Yeah. But great big dogs, really big dogs. Blue ticks had some bloodhound crosses some gas cones just straight up big old fashioned, long-eared ball mouth, check every track type hounds.

And and that's what, so that's what my outfitter had. A Adrian. The interesting part was, and it's a whole nother spiel I don't need to get into about how we ended up hunting with these other dogs, but one day we hunted with this other guy in, in his pack and [00:38:00] part of our pack and he actually had these walker dogs smaller, more athletic type dogs.

Yeah. That, and I asked him where he got 'em from and they originally come from Idaho. I Bede. Yeah. And I got the name of that guy that he got 'em from, but I can't remember it now. But those dogs are a little more what we would expect, right? Like for for our country, yes. A little more smaller, lighter, quicker type dogs.

But yeah, some of those dogs that Adrian had impressive noses though. He had a black and tan, that could, just blow your mind. But, and what do you say though? Describe what made, cuz you've been around, ha you've been a houseman now and you're catching lions and what blew your mind about it?

Just they could smell stuff that the other dogs couldn't, they knew they, they could move a track that, that none of the other dogs could smell. And what's interesting is actually that the other pack that we hunt with the Walker dogs, their best dog, like their go-to cold trail and grind it out, dog was.

Was pretty much the same as Adrian's best cold nose dog. Completely, [00:39:00] different types of dogs, but when it come to cold nose, they can find that track and move it. When nobody else knew it was there. What was But they moved it. They moved it. Yeah. Yeah. Were they moving it at a good pace or were they just track to track getting it, just keeping it rolling?

How would it compare to I think it's hounds when we get a lot of terms that we throw around. Yes. Yeah. And we talk about this all the time, guys are always, I got a message the other day about cold nosed dogs. Does this dog produce cold nose dogs? And my first question is normally give me your definition of cold nose.

It's perspective. Yeah. Tell me what you think a cold nose dogs in, and then I can, I think a lot of times we just hear guys talk about these dogs having cold noses and that sounds cool. So we say it I can't tell you cold nose, I can tell you cold nose in my pack. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's probably, roundabout, like everybody can tell you cold nose in their pack. Or cold [00:40:00] nose with the dogs they hunt. Might not be in your pack, but you can tell cold nose versus everything you hunt with. The reason I asked you that specific question is because I've seen a lot of dogs that people called cold nose that just.

Didn't know how to run a track, so this dog, this is there. Boo-hoo. In one spot. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, they're cold. No, that's a cold nosed dogs just, but they're not moving anywhere. They're just, but this dog was, they're just making noise. Yeah. This dog was capable of moving the track.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And then, like I said, like what I'm calling those cold nosed dogs, they could move in it and it was not at a good pace. The conditions when I'm talking about cold nose also is relative to the conditions. Sure. Do you know what your temperatures were? They were in the low eighties, low to mid eighties during the day.

No kidding. And then did you ever get, keep track of any humidity levels there? No. But there was times when the humidity was obviously a in play at night because you could see it just building up on the wind windshield of the vehicle while we were driving around. But no, I didn't.[00:41:00]

I didn't have any way to really measure that, I just know some nights it was more humid than others. Yeah. When those dogs had moved that tractor during the day, we're talking full blown sun, been on it for eight hours and we're moving it through rocks and stuff. And it, like I said, it's not at a good pace, but we are progressing.

Yes. And your trackers are verifying that these dogs are on track too. When we could yeah. When we could. But the verifying it actually was interesting. So we chased the same Tom three days in a row, and and the first day we run him, we got him jumped and up in these great big rocks.

Massive. So we're trying to figure out, the dogs can't get up there. And I'm looking at 'em like, I can get up there. But Oh, I can believe, but in, in my mind, I'm thinking too, all right, this is not a mountain lion. If I go up there and run right up on top of this leopard, it's not gonna end good for me either.

And Anyhow. That being said, I ha gotta listen to my guide. He says, that's not safe to crawl in there. I'd put a 50 50. You're pretty scrappy. I don't know if I wanna tangle with a leopard.[00:42:00] Anyhow, so we had this leopard caught way up in these big rocks. He climbed actually a tree and then jumped from the tree to the rocks to get where he was at.

So we're trying to figure out what to do about it. And these, a pack of baboons comes in like 20 baboons. No way. Yeah. And they're mean they'll go fight them dogs. Oh, really? Yeah. They'll tear 'em up. Wow. The handler didn't want nothing to do with them. Baboons fighting the dogs.

They'll actually go to the dogs. Yeah. They were there to fight the dogs. That's why they came in. Wow. No way. It's like wolves coming in. Yeah. To, to a pack of dogs here. That's what these baboons did, huh? And are they protected? No. And we, we considered eliminating all of them, but there was more of them.

Why did you just consider it? There was more of them than what we had rounds for the rifles. Oh, is what? And here's what I'm being, I'm telling you what I was told. And if we get rid of them, the others are still gonna be a problem. So you guys, so basically what you're saying is you need to pack more rounds?

We do, yeah. A lot. Start [00:43:00] bringing you a Ruger 10 22 and whacking them. I think I'd opt for a 12 gauge with an extended tube on it. That'd work too. Yeah. But street sweeper. So anyhow, yeah, so that same time we run three days in a row. That day we put him in the rocks aside. You know what? The roads are good around here.

We'll let him come out and try to cut him again. And we cut him again the next day and he'd obviously moved early and we trailed all through the night, all through the next day. And so you didn't even go back to camp, you guys just stayed on him? No, we went back to camp. Okay. Because this was like early afternoon when we quit for the day.

Yeah. Trailed him again all next day and got, I believe forever we went and was just one of them tracks, we've gone so far, we've gotta jump him, we gotta jump, we gotta jump. Never did track burned off again. And what's interesting is just verification that they were them dogs were moving.

That track is, there was one more rock pile. There's lots of rock piles, but there was one more and then a road and And that next day we cut his track [00:44:00] coming out of that next rock pile, crossing that road. And the guy a local that lived right there, actually come out and said hey, are you guys hunting?

He goes, last night the baboons and those rocks were going crazy. And the iWay, that's what they called the leopard, the iWay. He moved through here last night. That's another good dog name. iWay. Yeah. Yeah. So anyhow, yeah. It's a long story to say that's confirmed, day after day.

Yeah. So do the ba So the baboons knew that he was in the rockpile and they were messing with him, and that's how the local knew or So those ba those baboons, when the cats move, those baboons will bark at 'em yell at 'em. It's hard to ex explain the sound. Sure. But they just you can hear 'em.

Oh, I was gonna ask you to do it, so thank you. Oh, good. And Wants is free, it'll cost you next time. But there was a female that lived right around camp, a female leopard, and you could hear her every night where she was moving, and you'd hear the next night that baboons had started up right where she left off the night before and just travel around.

Wow. Yeah, it was pretty darn interesting. That's very [00:45:00] interesting. Yeah. But but back to the dogs, the the. Just what I call the old fashioned dodge. Just great big track to track long-eared ball, mouth hounds is what this guy had.

And so when, how many leopards did you catch and actually see while you were there? You wanted to know the grand total. Zero. Really? A hundred percent zero. Yep. And that's the way hunting goes sometimes, right? It's not guaranteed and it wasn't for lack of effort. We tried, I didn't mean to blow up the podcast there and tell everybody you didn't kill a leopard.

That's why it's called hunting. Yeah. But I wanted to get an idea, if you had any engagements and how the leopard reacted to hounds and did you get any experience like that at all? Unfortunately, no. The one thing I really wanted, even more so than pulling the trigger on one, cuz that's checkmate, right?

When you get the opportunity to pull the trigger you've won, I wanted to hear. A leopard, cuz I don't know if you've ever heard videos of them, but they, the whatever glut roar. Terrifying. Oh. It's [00:46:00] just, I, I think it'd make the hair stand up on your neck. Yeah. And I, that was what I was most looking forward to.

I think I heard that this morning when Chris showed up to go hunting. That's right. Let's roll. Did you let a glitter roar? No. But yeah, that's, we didn't realize shorty was gonna sleep in this morning. No. It's like we're leaving here at five. I come down here at ten five and Shorty's still in his underwear and Yeah.

But I was making dinner. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah. Thank goodness, man. I'm telling you. At least we got, that was good. We got dinner before midnight. Mountain lion stew. That's right. It was awesome. With no Alitos. Which is cactus. Cactus. Yeah. Is really good. Really good. Yeah. No that's so intriguing, man.

That's, oh I so admire your, that whole hunt and getting to go experience all that and stuff. I, man, so I'd love to go. That's one thing I would love to go do. Yeah. [00:47:00] That's a Jaguar and leopard, those are my bucket list and for sure. So that's, and you know what?

I'm glad that you didn't. Yeah, actually, because now you probably wanna go back. Oh yeah, I'm gonna go back. I, and I'll get a leopard. I don't, that's just my attitude towards everything. Sometimes failing first right. Is the best thing that can happen. Cuz now you're more determined and granted, I'm not gonna, they go that's with life.

Yeah. Yeah. It's things are better when you work for 'em and they don't come easy. It's not particularly the funnest route, but it is better. It it is more rewarding, yeah. You didn't win the, you didn't win the World championship in PBR the first year you were in it, did you?

No, they wouldn't let me. No. No, they wouldn't let me. Nope. It's a rule, right? But you know what, like I loved the experience of going over there. Absolutely. I could totally be disappointed about it. Oh, I spent this money and I didn't get what I went for. That wasn't even what I went for.

I went for the experience. Sure. And I tell you what, running around at night, [00:48:00] Chasing leopards behind dogs and you've got mambas and baboons and all this stuff. It's just a different world, right? Yeah. And right. That's what I went there for. And cat or no cat, I got what I went for most.

I think you hit on something that was key there that separates hounds, men from other hunters. How many trees have you walked to where you didn't take the you didn't take the animal, yeah. Tons. We're not there for that experience. That's, that, that's, that has zero to do with it.

And that's I couldn't even tell you the last time I actually harvested a lion. Yeah. I don't care to ever do it again, ever. It's not because I. Look down on it. It's not because alls I want is the, I want the hound work. That's what right gets, that's what I enjoy. I enjoy you're pit, you're pitting your wits and your experience and your work through your hounds against this animal that's got all the odds in [00:49:00] their favor.

They know the train. They're, they're wild animals, so they live out there every day and you're bringing your world and trying to make those two worlds come together. To have that experience and that interaction with wildlife. And it's really unique. And I feel the same way. I could go to, I could go to Zimbabwe and chase leopards and I don't wanna do the, go through the headaches of cides tags and permits and all that other stuff.

Getting 'em back here. And then, cuz if you, you gotta have like a. The, I don't even know what a leopard full body mountain would cost. I bet. Be 10 to 15 grand. Oh yeah. It's a lot cheaper if you go and don't shoot nothing. Yeah. But doesn't cost nothing but you, I'm with you.

You want to get a leopard just so you can, that's the ticket. And I think that's, that part of us is still there. Oh, no, absolutely. I a hundred percent would've been fine with just catching a leopard and letting him go. A hundred percent. I'm the same way. Yeah. Yeah. Leopards are hard. [00:50:00] It's tough over there anyway, because they've got the, so many tags and strict regulations are, they're pretty heavily protected and regulated, stuff like that.

Does Adrian offer any green hunts where you can go over in dart leopards and. No, but we were talking about that actually. So Adrian's a lot like us, right? Like he loves the hound work, all that stuff is what drives, he's always sending me great pictures. Yeah. Yeah. And just that's what drives him, right?

He loves his dogs and he loves the hound work. And and we actually discussed that. So he's from South Africa and they can't run leopard in South Africa with dogs. And we were discussing ways that he could run leopard down there, whether it's through studies collaring these leopards or even whether it be in Zimbabwe, Botswana, or South Africa, doing pictures of Faris and actually targeting females because the females aren't nearly as aggressive.

They typically tree instead of fighting on the ground. It's just a lot better scenario to do that in. And I hope we gets something figured out. I think that could be really [00:51:00] cool. And honestly, they're. A lot of, like the locals attitudes towards leopards is they want as, they want 'em gone, right?

That's right. Because they're a threat to their livelihood, their food source. They're a threat to their health. And, if we can create more benefit to having them around, which is obviously the North American model of hunting that has applied in Africa has been hugely successful.

But specifically on the Hounds man side of things, the benefit of using hounds to interact with this wildlife. Because in Africa, the only two countries it's legal to, to use dogs in is Zimbabwe and Botswana. Ivan Carter always sums it up real well. You talk about adding value.

He said, when you add value to wildlife, then you keep it on the landscape. And Gavin Lius has been on the podcast before and we talked extensively about if you don't have the, if you don't have the. Big game outfitting. What the hell you doing? What you doing over there? [00:52:00] Just kick it around shorty.

He's gotta wash his feet again. The paint was starting to peel off the walls but Gavin talked about that. He's if we don't then if there's no value for the local economy, for those animals, they're gonna industrialize, they're gonna farm and the wildlife's gonna suffer. So that goes to the whole trophy hunting argument, trophy hunting's.

What saved a. Our wildlife in this country. Trophy hunters got together. They're the ones. And again, we allowed the anti hunters to hijack the narrative on that and make it a dirty word when we need to spend more time talking about it and educating people on what it actually is, especially in places like Africa.

Yeah. Because it's for real there. If they if they don't have that wildlife, they're gonna bring cattle in there and they're gonna overgraze it and they're gonna do all kinds of stuff and then your wildlife suffers. Yep. Absolutely. And the thing I think gets overlooked on that, the whole trophy hunting with the negative [00:53:00] connotation it's gotten is people think, oh, it's just trophy hunting.

You're just after the trophy. Think about this. Say, and I've got nothing against meat hunters whatsoever. Like I'll, but if you're a trophy hunter, you're putting in way more time and effort and just everything is tenfold to find a trophy. And when I say trophy, I'm talking about a mature animal, whereas a meat hunter, you can shoot the first legal animal you see a young buck or young female or whatever you're after.

I would argue that tr quote unquote trophy hunting is better for the population than anything. I would a hundred percent agree. The only, I just hate the term, I hate the term too, and it's just because of the way it's, there's no better way to describe it. Yeah. But I hate the term. Yeah.

Because the antis have used that against us. Yeah. That's what I it got hijacked because Teddy Roosevelt Exactly. Teddy Roosevelt, when they started the Boone and Crockett Club, they were trophy hunters. Exactly. And they called themselves trophy hunters. But here's the thing is, if you look at trophy hunting, okay, [00:54:00] trophy hunting, you're harvesting the biggest, best animal.

In, in, in that atmosphere. He's already made his contribution to the genetic makeup of that herd. If he's gotten to the trophy level, he already possesses his genetics to produce strong, healthy individual animals. And he's already bred females all across the landscape. Correct.

But let's even go back further than that. Let's go way back in time. If you go way back in time, we're going back to the plasticine pretty close. Yeah. Folsom man. Yep. Going back to the Folsom man. And if you haven't looked up Folsom, man I'm just gonna plug Folsom, man, because I think it's really cool.

Yeah. Look up Folsom, the FSO man site, the FSO man, whatever. It's right here on the ranch. It's a very cool sort. But anyway, go back to that. Go back to that era and when you, when those people were going to go, if there was animals out there to be harvested for meat, You were gonna take the [00:55:00] biggest, healthiest animal cuz that was gonna provide the best meat.

And so that has trickled down through generations. You always took the biggest, healthiest animal because that provided the best protein. Trophy hunting, I thi I, it's a, I just, I hate the term of it, but it has been going on for thousands of years. If you had a, if you had 10 animals to choose from, are you gonna shoot the weakest?

Sorry. And back then it was spear or arrow It the weakest, most pathetic animal in the herd. If you were hungry enough, you would. Yes. But if you had, if all of them, if you had the same shot opportunity on every one of them, you're gonna take the healthiest one always, because that's gonna provide the best meat.

So wolves do the same thing. I don't care what anybody says. Everybody says, oh, wolves only kill the second of the week. That's, they've gotta expend, they've gotta expend the same amount of energy to catch the weakest one [00:56:00] as they do the lc and the big one. Yes. The one that's gonna provide the most opportunity, most food.

Yeah. An opportunity for sure. And we could sidetrack the whole conversation with that one. But yeah. Anyways, so I just, I want to just clarify that I know exactly what you're saying, Cody. I just, I hate the term and I wanna clarify that because they, the antis have hijacked it, but you're right, trophy hunting has Totally, and I actually listened, and I can't recite where it came from, but I actually listened to a podcast from a South African woman who was a.

Lion biologist who is completely pro trophy hunting. Because it has saved the lions. And so yeah. It put value on that lion. Exactly. So while I hate the term, it is still a very healthy way to manage wildlife. Yep. For sure. Yep. Absolutely. What were some of the biggest some high points of the trip for you?[00:57:00]

Oh, the the travel? Yeah, the travel. Not so much. I, the high points is honestly seeing the country, seeing the new country. What was it like? I know you said the sand, it was sandy soil. Yeah. Other than that, what, give us some vegetation prescriptions. So everything has thorns. Oh, south Texas.

That's, you know what, and I told that guy, I said, this is a lot like South Texas because everything has thorns. The vegetation is thick and And Yeah, there's a plant there. I can't remember the African name they called it, but it's like a vine, right? It's got like fish hook type thorns in it.

We call those, wait a minute, Bush. That's what they call 'em. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. I'll be danged. Yeah. Came from South Texas. Yeah. When you hit it, you wait a minute, it's whoa, wait a minute. Yeah. You gotta back up. And it like wraps around your legs. Yep. And arms. Yeah. And I has to, I got stuck in it one night and I asked them, I said, what is this junk?

I had stuck on me? The fish hook things and they're like, oh, that's such and such. Wait a minute. I'm like, [00:58:00] what? And they're like, yeah, it's called, wait a minute. That's funny. So yeah, apparently apparent, apparently Zimbabwe and South Texas are similar. Yeah. Apparently. I thought that was one of the biggest high points.

It's just seeing new, a new totally different country and being able to hunt there and being able to follow dogs that, are doing what they're bred to do and Right. And after an animal that is just, I think is one of the coolest things on the planet. Oh my God, yes. Navigating snakes, actually, as much as I didn't want to get bit by a mamba.

That was, did you see any snakes? Oh yeah. We saw six Mambas and a Oh, wow. And a Cobra? Yeah. Wow. Nope, I'm not going. So we were went to hang bait one day. We were hanging up some new baits and I just six to eight feet from me. I heard something moving through the Did you kill 'em?

No, they're fast, fast. They'll just, I don't care how fast they're, you. Shoot at 'em. I didn't have a gun. On me. Did they shoot at 'em? No. No. Oh my God. No. Nobody carried guns around unless we were after a leopard, oh. But anyhow, six, eight feet away, I hear something moving in the grass [00:59:00] there, and I'll look over and I couldn't even get the words outta my mouth.

I was trying to tell him, big mamba. I, whatever I said, probably sounded like gibberish. But this thing was enormous. And I knew exactly what it was. Unfortunately it was heading away from us. But you talk about fast, they said you make one mad, they'll chase you and you can't hardly get away. Yeah, I've heard that.

Can't hardly get away from 'em. And I believe it when you see how quick they are. Yeah. But yeah. Oh my God. But, seeing all different wildlife, with was seeing giraffes and zebra wheel to beast. No elephant. We actually did hunt elephant one night though. They had some problem elephants, and most people don't know this, but I'll preface the story with this is in the Zimbabwe and Botswana has a huge elephant population.

Yes. And they have a lot of problems with them and they're issued p c tags. But for $5 a month you can help save the African elephant. Yeah. Must be if you watch the commercials, but these so they issued these p c tags problem animal control. Yes. Justin McBride, I think actually.

I participated in one of those. Gotcha. Gotcha.[01:00:00] So anyhow, one night, these, this is a new hunting concession that they just leased this outfit and this local village there. It's a big area. And they kept calling and said, we have problems with these elephants. Please come help us.

Please come help us. And they're like, if you want to, it was next to nothing. I said, if you wanna come help these guys, it's next to nothing. Only 25,000. No, not even. Oh wow. Like 3,500 bucks. Oh, wow. And I, and I didn't have a whole lot of interest in hunting in Elephant, but I got to think for, I'll never have that opportunity, nor Yeah.

Yeah. You can't do that in Colorado. No. You'd try, but they kick you outta the zoo every time. It just never fails. So anyhow, we go down to this village is five hours away. And they have these cornfields that these elephants were tearing up, and a villager would sleep in the cornfield with a drum every night.

And when those elephants would come, they'd bang on the drum and try to run 'em off, which it didn't work. Huh? So we just slept in on the ground there in the cornfield waiting for the drums. And then we were gonna go to the elephants and they never showed up and obviously we're after leopard, so we went back to that.

But [01:01:00] but that was a highlight, I don't know, a hunting elephant and a stinking eight foot tall cornfield. Yeah, that'd be pretty intense. And I'm gonna get us off track a little bit here, but like, when McBride was over there, he was hunting other game. They actually had a elephant raid a village.

No kidding. And actually hurt people. Oh. And so they called same deal. They called Hey, we need help. Yeah. And so he got to participate in that. But yeah, it just sounds like a really wild place that that is just full of adventure and experience and it's like first time you go to Disney World or something, everywhere you look, it's something new you and you're just that's how I think I'd be if I got there.

Yeah. And it changes so quickly. Just the US right? You can drive and the scenery changes a lot. And it was like that, where we were hunting leopard, it's, big rock piles and dense vegetation and all this stuff. And then where we're at with the elephants, it's more open, arid, and granted it's more populated.

There's a lot of grazing there. The land has been abused a little bit more.[01:02:00] I got a question for you. If you could go back, which you're gonna go back and take your own hounds, what hounds would you take and why? If I was to go back, I would love to take my own hounds, just cuz it's, you always wanna see what your own dogs could do.

I would take a couple of my coldest nose dogs that I personally would have and some fast dogs. And I'm gonna get into a little more on this story in a minute. But I feel like in those rocks right, you need something to cut that distance and time quickly. And that's a lot of what I hunt here is those rocks and some cold nosed dogs and some fast dogs I think would really get the job done.

You get 'em jumped and put some pressure on them. Can a cold nose dog be fast? They can. Wow. Myth buster. Wow. I've seen it. My, my cold nose dogs are a little bit slower on a jump track. They just get out ran. But [01:03:00] as far as when it comes to cold trailing, they can still be fast. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. So that being said, that, that's what I think personally.

Yeah, sure. Like I've been over there and for a week when we fail that, I think that's, to me, that's the intriguing part of being a Haman. Like when we fail, what do I need to do? What was it? Was it me? Was it the dogs? Where am I lacking? Where do I need to add da. So you're always trying to improve what you have to be able to be successful.

It's much like when you got bucked off. Yeah. Fix the problem. Where did I fix the problem? Go it's simple. Fix the problem. So that's why I asked the question. That and I think that's where a lot of people may not look deep enough into it. Okay where is the problem?

We need, I need faster dogs. I need this, I need that. So that, that, that's [01:04:00] intriguing to me that would be what you would take. Yeah. You're not gonna take the fighting dogs, you're not gonna, you're gonna take a cold nose fast dog back over there. Yeah. If that's what you had to if you don't only take part of 'em, you're gonna take the, and I feel like some of the, our, a little bit smaller dogs navigate those rocks a little bit better, gotcha. But so to add onto that story though, on how they hunt. They only run those colder nose track driving dogs by themselves and they hold their, the rest of the dogs back.

And what was interesting is is Adrian, he actually had the rest of the dogs in the truck. And when it was time, He'd have his guy at the truck dump out the rest of them to join the race. I've never hunted like that. Like when I hunt 'em, all my dogs go. And so that was interesting.

But to add to that the second pack that we hunted with, they actually do take all their dogs with them and they have everything leashed up and they're leading them behind [01:05:00] until they get that leopard jumped and then they let the rest go. Okay. So that was interesting to see. Sure. And another thing that was interesting on that second pack where they had 'em all leashed up the whole time on the hunt, the holding them back is they would whistle to the dogs that were hunting.

How'd they whistle? I don't know. I'd have to show you video. Oh, come video on. Man you gave us so many sound effects earlier. I thought you were ba nailed. The whistle I was bad was a leopard. I can't be a whistler now. Yeah. But I don't, I didn't a hundred percent understand it, but to me, watching, it seemed like they were telling those dogs to hunt further out or closer in by the way they were whistling to him.

Okay. And it was the local handlers that were doing it. It'd be similar like the old school fox out when they blow the certain, yep. Yeah. But I'll show you some videos that'll, you'll get a lot better. A lot better grasp of what it sounded like. No, I wanted to hear it from you.

It sounded like a small bird. I don't know. I gotcha. But yeah, it's fascinating to see how people, different people, different cultures and everything, hunt their dogs, and [01:06:00] were there some common threads? Did you get some common threads there between our culture and their culture?

Yeah. Yeah. I think, the common thread in that you're gonna see that with most Hounds men is just the love of the dogs and the love of pursuing the game. It was never. With those guys. It was never about, a kill. It was about the pursuit. And and matching wits with something that, that, did you feel that there was a mutual bond between, okay, so they take hunters for a living.

So all kinds of people. All kinds of people. And there's the fat guy from New York City and there's the, whatever, the rich guy from Boston, all this stuff. They take people for a living, that they take 'em all. Did you feel like there was a bond between you and them that you appreciated the sport of the, of hunting, A hound.

Versus taking other people or, oh, absolutely. [01:07:00] Yeah. We can talk hounds and hunting and all the different styles of dogs and this and that all day long they probably had a heyday. Yeah. And Adrian's a younger guy than me too. And so it was different. Damnit you're old.

Having a younger hounds man that's just as passionate about all that stuff. Was pretty cool. But yeah, the bond was there and I, maybe, I'm, maybe I'm speaking out of place or not, but I feel like he had a funner time hunting with a hounds man. That's what I, that's kinda what I was knew.

That's always alluding to there. Yes. Yeah. And honestly, he told, he told me like, this has been one of the funnest hunts I've ever had, and we didn't even catch a leopard. And I was like, I totally agree. But he understood that you knew the. You know the score before you go in.

Yeah. Not every ounce successful. I'm sure he is got guys, you're talking about going out during the day and hanging baits with them and stuff. You were probably totally immersed in the whole process, whereas you get the banker f from New York City, it's go hang my bait.

Yeah. Go hang my bait. I'm gonna go back and Right. Hang out and camp and drink wine and Yeah. Yeah. I was wanting to [01:08:00] be part of all of it. Yeah. And even when we'd trail them, them cats and the. Adrian would send everybody in the trucks. He'd go, all right, they're gonna drive around to this road.

He goes, you can jump in with them. I'm like, no, I'm gonna walk with you. Away we go. I wanna see it. I don't wanna miss out on any of that stuff sitting in the truck. Yeah, it's a good time. And I like the fact that he was down for it too, cuz Sure. Especially, Chris, I know you a little bit Trudy, I know you real well and know me well enough like I'm down to go.

We gonna go in the worst place on the mountain, let's go. No. Yeah. Don't try to hike with him. Yeah. Period. I'm just gonna tell you that first time we ever hunted together, I learned that. I was like, I'm out. No, there's plenty better hikers than me, but no boo. I like to go there probably is, but I'm not.

I'm not playing with them either. Yep. But but that was fun cuz because he never had that either, he's like, all yeah. Oh my God, we've got somebody that actually wants to participate. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah. Let's get it done. Yeah. What a neat experience making sure.

Yeah, it was, I'm glad to do it and like I said, it was not cheap and I had to sell cattle to pay for it, but [01:09:00] that it is worth it. The sure the cat is the cat. That experience though, man, that was, it was really cool. And and I'll go again for sure. Good deal, man. Good deal.

I think we can probably put a lid on this thing for this adventure. I'm glad you came down Cody and shared your story with us and I've been looking forward to it for a long time. I'm glad to share it and yeah, we'll have to do it again sometime, maybe next time. We'll We'll have some new adventures.

Yeah, you bet. I definitely will. Shorty's definitely gonna have a lot of new adventures here in his new digs, that's for sure. Absolutely. I tell you, when you're lucky. Huh? Yeah. Yeah. I've only been lucky a couple times in my life, but I feel lucky now. Yeah, no doubt. Make sure you're checking out the all our stuff over.

If you're a Patreon member, check out all the work that Seth is doing over on Patreon. He drops the tailgate talk every week. There's all kinds of discount codes for our Patreon supporters, for Homan, xb, and those are [01:10:00] deep discount codes that on gear that you need anyway, so you can find. Also, make sure you're shopping 'em with our sponsors that support our show.

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This is fair checks.[01:11:00]