Just One More Drop

Show Notes

We’ve all said it, done it and often regretted it. “Just one more drop” is often closely followed up with “We should have quit while we were ahead” 

On this episode of the Houndsman XP Podcast, host, Chris Powell is joined by two great Houndsmen Wade Hollerman and Hunter Mecham. The trio recaps a solid week of bear hunting on the Paloma Ranch in Northern New Mexico with Escondido Hunting. This recap includes some great hunts, solid dog work and good shooting. There is always enough time for “Just one More”

Topics Covered:

-Houndsman Spotlight with Wade Hollerman and Hunter Mecham

-breakdown of seven mature boar bear hunts

-chasing running bear

-breeding for great bear dogs

-introducing hunters-young and old to bear hunting with hounds

www.escondidohunting.com

www.houndsmanxp.com

Show Transcript

[00:00:00] I had to put a big buildup for this one. Folks on this episode, the Homan XP podcast, we are going to recap five days of bear hunting action, packed bear hunting in Northern New Mexico. Hunter Mecu and Wade Holman. Join me to recap five days of just a SmackDown on Black Bear. Big Bo Black Bear. We had clients in and we were the guests of Escondido Hunting on the Paloma Ranch in Northern New Mexico.

We left the Paloma with tired dogs, with worn out feet and happy hunters. The best way to end to hunt. You're gonna really enjoy this episode of the Haman XP podcast. Let's [00:01:00] get the tailgate down. It's time to dump the box.

This is the Homan XP podcast.

Good dog. Get that burn. Get that burner.

The original podcast for the complete hounds. Get your coat.

We're gonna get him, we're [00:02:00] gonna get him the podcast that represent our lifestyle of extreme performance.

Yeah. Good boy. Ranger Uniting Homan across the globe from east to west, north to south. If you're gonna catch a cat or a lion, you have to have teamwork. We take you to the wildest places on earth. Yeah. So how many days a week can you spend on that day? As much as I can, to be honest with you.

Anytime that I get I'm out there. Join us for every heart pounding adventure on Hounds Man xp. I'll tell you, like I tell everyone else, I'm gonna hunt whether you're here or not, so you might as well be here.

So these are my favorite podcasts to do. 'cause we've been, we've actually been, [00:03:00] we're not just gonna sit around and talk about hunting. We've been hunting. Yeah. It's been awesome. We started on Wednesday, this week, Saturday we're sitting with the movie Star Hunter Mecu. I don't know about that. Yes, you are.

I saw you on the big screen Yeah. In Florence, Colorado on Friday night. The Lionheart video. Yeah. Yep. That's pretty cool that you got involved in that. Yeah, it was, it's an, it's a neat thing Robbie's doing. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I was lucky enough to get to go to that premiere for that. And I. I'm telling you guys how to adjust your mics, and then I'm sitting here with it hanging right here to the right.

But yeah, I got to go to the premier of that with, and Whitaker's were there. Of course. And what project Autograph, what a great project. Oh, it is. It's unreal. Yeah. Yeah. Probably the greatest thing for hound hunting to happen in a long time, in my opinion. Next to the Hounds Man, next pea podcast. That's right.[00:04:00]

Robbie had to pull something out second to none. That's right. Yeah. Robbie had to pull something out when he saw us come on the scene yep. And I'm, yeah, I'm talking to you Robbie Kroger. So put me on your podcast. I'll tell about it. But Wade Holman. Yes, sir. Hey, man, first time I've ever met you and I had a blast hunting with you this week.

Seemed like I was eating your dust all week. No, you're right in the middle of it. Yep. So really appreciate it. But I thought we'd just start from Wednesday and just tell some stories about. I'm chasing some bears 'cause we had some good ones. Yeah. We'd run some bears this week. Yeah. What have we got on the, what have we got in the cooler?

We've seven boars. Seven boars. Yeah. Seven boars in four days. Yep. That's pretty solid work right there. Yep. Yep. How many sows did we tree this week? Oh we tree the one, first out, first day out the gate, we caught that one. And how many times did we catch her this week? A runner. Yeah.

She's a [00:05:00] runner. Three times anyway. Yeah. And there was for sure another sow in there, but we caught a sow in two cubs the first day and a sow over where we killed the boar today. So Yeah, we let, we let six, at least six sows go. Yep. You caught another sow over there today? No. Two days ago.

Oh, two days ago. Yeah. Over there. Exactly right where we caught that board today. And we can talk about where we're at because. We're on private property. Yeah. So we're on the Paloma Ranch. Paloma Ranch. It's a D bear Heaven. Yeah. It's nice, isn't it? It is. It's unreal. Yeah. Are you guys used to having this kind of bear hunting up in Utah?

No. No. It's it's quite a treat for us to come here and see this much bear sign and stuff, because at home, shoot, we could drive around three days and not even cut a bear track or get a bark out of a dog or, we just don't have the feed and stuff that's, yeah. That's here. Or the, we don't have the bear numbers at home for sure.

Yeah. Are, do you guys live pretty close to each other? [00:06:00] About a hundred miles away. That's not bad. Nope. When you're talking in the west, it's, you can almost see it. Yeah. Yeah. We go hunting some, we don't stay at each other's house usually together. We just get up and roll. Yeah. Meet each other somewhere or whatever.

Yeah. We know Hunter's story as far as that goes. I'm not trying to dismiss you, hunter. 'cause you know what? You are a fourth generation outfitter. Yes sir. Yep. So your family's been in Hounds, you guys have bred your own hounds Yep. And all that stuff. And you can find all that out on, on Lion Heart in that film, which nobody's gonna get to see for 13 months or something unless you go to the live premiere.

But Wade, how'd you get into hound hunting and how'd this all start for you? My dad got dogs in 98. He drew a bear tag onto Lassalle Mountains and met a man by the name of Billy Mayfield. He had moved to Utah after hunting line with Charlie Leader there at home. And he came and Billy took my dad out and my dad got into him after that.

And then,[00:07:00] just started dragging me along and I just ate it up since. Since I was eight, so that was, I was 8 98. And then we were just weekend warriors pretty much and graduated high school and had some decent dogs then. And I had my own pack built pretty much by then. My dad was about ready to get out of it, had some dogs get killed and stolen and we just, whatever telemetry, maybe they didn't get stolen, but we figured they did.

But anyways, he was about ready to get out of it, but I was too hooked to yeah. To do it. And so yeah, my senior year of high school I caught 11 lion by myself and was pretty pumped about that and got hired by a guy by the name of Bruce Nay in Colorado. He's a well-known outfitter and hounds man.

And went to work for him, guy nail hunters. And then we, then I took lion hunters with him in that, that following winter. And we ended up getting on a lion study [00:08:00] and at the un compadre plateau. And I did that from 2010 to 14 with him. So I got to work with him every day. We would do it December to April, but a hundred pretty much every day in those four months for those four years.

And just kinda went to Lion hunting school and Hounds with school. He rearranged my whole pack of dogs and the way we handle dogs and yeah, just wouldn't have what I have now with, without Bruce's touch on me. Sure. And then his good friend Hal Meam, which is a, they, when they were younger, they would, they both run Bruce's dad's bloodline.

And so I got dogs from Hal and Bruce. Met Hal through Bruce and And that's what I have today is a pack of dogs that I can trace back to 1950. And we are breeding them and doing our stuff. And 19 50, 19 50, I can take take most of them back to 1950 and then, no kidding. And then now we've been crossing into [00:09:00] Hunter's stuff since we became friends.

And Uhhuh we've got some two year olds on the ground and they are pretty special dogs there. It's really working good and it's been, it's gonna be our future I would think. My future for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So is how related to you Hunter? Yeah, we're distance distantly related, but Yeah. Yeah, I know how real good too.

So do some of your dogs go back to his stuff or did you guys take a different path? No, most of of our stuff, my grandpa got some dogs from Jack Butler and Wiley Carroll and Charlie Tant. And he just started mixing all that stuff up and That's what our line is. But we have found through our through Wades, they've kept really they've wr wrote down everything they've ever crossed and there definitely is some of our blood in their dogs is written down.

Is that the same as, is that Utah for written down? That's written down, yeah. Okay. I just want to check, I just wanna make sure we're all speaking the same language here. Yeah. And I'm nobody to be making fun of anybody's English. I'm as [00:10:00] hillbilly as it comes yeah, unless I'm writing, then I'm really anal, when I'm writing stuff, it's I used to write grammar, but, yeah.

So Wade, what is it you didn't, what were you eight years old? I was eight. Yep. So what did that do to you when you started? Why did your dad get out and you stayed in? There's I've found interviewing different people that there's a common thread among. A Haman that get in it and stay in it.

Yeah. For me it was just I guess it just, the bug, I got the bug and I just got it more than he did. But dad got hypothermia in, in 2003 and that changed his, he gets cold easy and that really affected, he didn't enjoy lying hunting as much. 'cause he was always cold, right? Yeah. He about died actually when he gotta the hospital, he is two degrees away from dying.

So Was he out hunting when it happened? Yeah. He had turned loose on a lion late in the afternoon. [00:11:00] And it ended up catching it pretty close to the road and he just went in just jeans and a light jacket and it got to the tree and it got dark and it jumped and then he went and it jumped again and just it, next thing you know, he is in the bottom of a canyon and it gets dark and he's wet and Anyways, if he wouldn't have had his buddies, he was trying to take his clothes off and he was, he'd have been dead for sure.

So anyways, that changed him there. And then Billy had passed away in 2008, so he lost his hunting partner. And to me that fueled me more. I wanted to continue on what he had done. Yeah he had just two daughters and he treated me like a grandson. And to me I wanted to go further with it. And I guess about the sixth grade, I don't know how old I was then, but I decided then I wanted to be an outfitter.

And we started doing some work with a guy there in Utah that had some clients and I ate that up. And and then just like I said, then I went to work for every, for Bruce and them. And then I started my own outfitting business [00:12:00] in 2011 when I was 21. And I just give her. Give her a run for a few years in 2014, finally broke, started breaking the ice, and I booked some, a full set of lion hunters that winter.

And then I just started to, it's worked at its way all the way to where we're at today, but yeah, I just, for me, the dog hunting's just living I don't do you outfit all kinds and stuff like that? I do. Did before in Utah, the draw and stuff. And like I said, I worked for Bruce there and then last year Hunter got me on the T six Ranch with him.

Yeah, I I'm Hunter's Worm on the Aught six. I like that. I like how that sounds, Chris. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. No doubt. Let's talk some, what is that? Some kind of roia moth flying. A big moth in flying around in here. Trying to carry us away. Alright. Yeah, let's just dive into some of these hunting stories.

So Wednesday morning it started out, I'm not even sure what happened Wednesday morning. I've lost track. I, [00:13:00] we went right down the road. We come outta the gate here and took a left and we rigged and we tree that sal, we treed sow. Yep. Yep. And you guys went in, did you guys dive off the top? Yeah, we went around and down off the top.

I was late getting, we got, oh, I know, I remember now. Okay. So I'm showing my age. So yeah, we were up here in the Pines and Dogs retreat over the, off the ledge up there. And I zigged when I should have zagged. I didn't have any of your dogs in my no in my. Garmin. And then you had some dogs off to the right and you went in and checked on them.

And then the other dogs were tree to the left. And so I was walking towards them. Yep. And then realized that I was walking away from you guys and I got separated from you, so I cut it back up to the buggy and moved the buggies around above you. Yep. That's what you did. Yep. Yep. That's the first day.

And that was, that, that was our first encounter. We saw How many times did we see her across the road? Outta the ranch. Seemed like every morning if someone went down that road, you'd see her. No [00:14:00] kidding. It was every day. Yep. Yeah, she's eating right there. Something. Yep. And then Hunter was the all star on Wednesday.

Him and his group. Tell that story, man. That's a good one. That was the first day, wasn't it? Wednesday? Yeah. Yeah. So Wednesday we, oh man. We rigged a bunch of country here behind camp. The acorns ain't real thick there. Whether they froze or they got knocked off, they had a big hailstorm here.

Anyways, we crossed the highway and dropped off into some lower country and had a hard rig. And man, it was a weird deal. We sent, I sent a couple dogs and they went down to the bottom hit and started trailing back away from me and they got about 800 yards and they started petering out. So I figured I'd went backwards.

Anyways, so I have other dogs in the box and they're still going nuts anyway, so I get a couple more dogs out and walk 'em down to start at what I figure is the right way. So I'm going down this little bottom 50 yards from the side by side and. And I have one dog that goes over and just puts his feet up on a tree and [00:15:00] starts tree.

And I look up there and there's nothing there. But I look back on the next big Ponderosa and there's a sow and two cubs. So I assume she You're minus, yeah minus points in a competition. Exactly. Wrong tree. You slick trees. Anyways, but there's a so and two cubs there and I assume she just clumped the tree as soon as she hurt us rig, and we just went backwards on her.

But anyways we rolled down the road. You recovered good though, this yeah. Anyways, we rolled down the road, went got into a canyon with some good water, and figured we'd water the dogs there. And it was getting fairly warm at this point. And Brad, the other guy here, it's Brad Evans, is hunting with us, said, let's just walk these dogs up this canyon just a little ways.

And he literally, from the buggies, walked 50 yards and they strike and start trailing out of there. And long story short they got the bear jumped and. Rolled up through the canyon in a ways and he started going through some big rock slides and we got some dogs spread out. But anyways, I rolled up around the road there, they were coming up to the road and right when I come around the corner, I seen the pretty nice black boar and the dogs were just [00:16:00] ride on him there.

And he seen us and turned and anyways boiled down the canyon of 500, a hundred yards in tree right there. And I thought you went in a cave that in the cave day? No, that's second day. Second day. Second day was a cave. Who shot the whose bear was that the first day? That was Adam. Adam, yeah.

Killed the nice probably a seven, eight year old black boar. Yeah. And then, so then the next day we do the same thing. Go up through all the pine country, drop off. Where did you hit anything? Right above camp here? We never did. I've never, I've ran a bear out of there every time I've rigged up through there on the little route loop road here?

Yep. Go right up behind the cabins, take the left, get right in there, and boom. Have a hard rig. Goes right over the top. Drops into the. Dry Cimarron and not catch 'em off it. The Hounds Man XP podcast is fueled by joy Dog, food joy. Dog food has a rich tradition of supporting the Hounds Man of America.

Founded in 1945, [00:17:00] joy is proud of its history and the relationship it has built with the American Hounds man. And in 76 years, there's never been a recall made with a hundred percent American made high quality ingredients. Joy Dog Food has one of the highest calorie dense formulas on the market For 76 years, this Made In America product has kept hunting dogs in the field day after day, season after season.

And when we say Made in America, joy has a long track record of fighting for American freedoms by being on the front lines against the animal rights movement and their extremist tactics. Joy will fuel your hounds and fight for your freedoms fueled by joy.

I haven't rigged there yet, but these guys did see a bear. And you were there. They seen a bear that day that we were all coming outta there after we killed that other nice boar. Yeah. But then we killed that same red, [00:18:00] a chocolate, I guess would, I guess it'd be a red bear the next morning. Yesterday morning.

He sees it right? Right here. And it run off into that canyon. Yeah. So I assume maybe the same bear. Same bear. Yeah. He said it was a nice, they always look bigger on the ground, and they're running from you. But the one that I caught yeah. The was probably the one you caught. I caught the one on, I caught one on Thursday.

Yeah. Yeah. We got, break this down. We've caught so many bears. So I wanna talk about that cave bear. 'cause that thing was crazy. Yeah. You went up through, so we went up the loop road. Yeah. Nothing there. Crossed the road again. Went through the gate, literally, probably 500 yards from where we started the blackboard the day before.

We rigged hard sent dogs and we, they covered some country they were getting it. And I bet we went probably three, four miles as the crow flies. And he headed right for the highway. Brad stayed down in the bottom and I got around the highway and they went to baying him right there.

And we got a cool show. They were fighting him up through the oak brush and he was picking out dogs and [00:19:00] chasing 'em around and worked up to a big ledge face and then just started going to the bottom of the ledge face. And then we started losing signal on him and we're only like 300 yards from him.

So we buzz around and Mario the guy that's with us on the ranch he said, shows us where a little road is. Anyways, I get 60 yards from the dogs and I can't hear 'em. So anyways, I figure they're in a hole. So I get up there and yeah, they've got him baed in probably a 25 foot cave. It goes back 25 feet.

It goes back, yeah, it's deep and it's a pretty big room. Probably the first 15 feet and then it really narrows down back to where the bear was in there. But anyways, we it was a nice bore so we we knew that you guys got some awesome video of that. Yeah. Did Mario crawl in there with you?

Yeah. He got in there a little bit, but he said it weren't his deal. But I don't know that it's my deal either. It's crawling a cave with a bear's. Yeah, it's, that'd be intense. If, have you done that? Have you caught 'em in caves? Yes sir. Yeah. Yep. [00:20:00] It's just one of 'em things. You just gotta go a lot.

Gotta go do it. We bay a lot of bears in holes at home. Yeah. We got a lot of this leggy black Remy country, so they, there's a lot of them. Big crevices and caves Yeah. Type stuff. I've never crawled in a cave with a bear. I'm not, I don't, I guess I took some dogs out of a culvert pipe, which is kind the same thing.

Yeah. But I would, I didn't like it. I'm gonna tell you right now, it's like, This isn't where I need to be. Yeah. Hope I got, I don't know, man. That's, how'd you get your balls back in the side by side to get back to camp When you're as dumb as me, Chris, you just, you don't even think about it. I guess now the worst part is the dust in there.

'cause you get back in there and the of the dogs got it all stirred up so bad and then you just gotta wait. You don't know how close you are to him or not, but, and Jacob was your hunter that day? Yeah. Yep. Get good. And he was right up in it. Yeah, he was eating it up. He did real good. Yeah. Yep. And the dust was, he said the dust settled and then then when he shot, [00:21:00] it really blew up.

And you don't know a lot. Sometimes they'll run up, run over the top of you coming out or sometimes they just stay back in there. But he made a good shot and it was over fast. And then That's crazy when you shoot a gun in a cave like that. What was he shooting? 45, 70 in a cave. I still can't hear out of this ear.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's one thing we overlook as hounds man a lot is, Shorty is the one that turned me onto this. But he wears earplugs. He'll put earplugs in before he walks into a tree. And so I started looking into some different products with noise canceling, but you still have the Bluetooth and the surround and hearing enhancement type stuff.

So I'm running some iso tune sports right now. They're called calibers from ISO tunes. And man, they're cool. 'cause I have a hearing disability anyway, so I can still hear that the dog's out there. But as soon as the shot goes off or if you get in close to a tree, then it, it cancels that noise out.

Yeah. Them are pretty cool. Yeah. [00:22:00] If I'm running my side by side, you just put 'em in and it cancels all that noise and it's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. I think we overlooked that so much as soundman. No, a guy should watch out for himself a little more, and the problem is with me and Wade, the first tree we went to, that's where the ear.

Ear muffs or earplugs, whatever you want to call 'em. Would they'd stay right there? Probably, yeah. Set 'em in an oak. Hey, we've all lost stuff. I've lost stuff this week. I lost a radio at the, at a tree on Thursday or Friday. You lost a garment. What have you lost this week? Wake Nothing yet. But nothing yet.

I'm sure There's nothing. I know when he gets home, he'll realize what he's lost. Yeah. Yep. For sure. Yep. Then what's your favorite place to hunt on this ranch? The, I like the Rincon. That's some cool country, isn't it? Yeah. I just, I love the, I love to walk a bear on the ground and there ain't no trees there, so it's all oak brush.

It's oak brush and you shoot 'em on the ground, and I love that. [00:23:00] Or you catch 'em in an oak tree. That's, yeah. And our oak out here is an eight inch, 10 inch oak is a big, that's a big one. So when you shove 'em up in one of them, I, it's just, Cool. The only place there's any big oak trees on this ranch is over in Oak Canyon.

Yeah. There's some big and big ones over there. Nothing like back east though, I would imagine. A lot of the old ones have been cut and different things, but we got some big oak trees back there. Yeah. Yeah. When I come out here and they say, always open the oak brass or he is in an oak tree, and I walk up there and there's an, it's an oak tree.

It's like this is a bush. Yeah. Yeah. And bears are six, seven feet off the ground and that one I caught Thursday, did we ended up, did we shoot that? Did we kill that on Friday? It would've been Friday, yeah. Yeah. The day after you caught him. Yeah. He was in an oak bush, wasn't he? Yeah.

Yeah. No, it might have been Saturday. Saturday. We killed that one, didn't he? Today's Saturday. Today's Sunday. Sunday. I'm telling you man. It's all running together. Yeah. Sat, yeah. I think it was yesterday. Killed that bear. Yeah. That was I [00:24:00] telling on myself again, besides, the other thing that I said I overslept on, was it Thursday morning?

And the alarm was not working. I set the alarm clock in the room and anyway, I overslept, no excuses, I just being a lazy slug and get up and you guys are all pulling out. So I'm like, crap. And I run out there and fire up my buggy and shorty sees me going out and he sends me a text one where it says recon.

I was like, okay, I know where we're headed. So I peel outta here and hit the county road out outside the gate and I'm hauling down through there and all of a sudden I, my box just blows up and I go around this bin and there's a bear standing in the road and he's a big brown bear with a little blonde hair on his, just lightly blonde on his back and he's just streaking down the road.

And I'm trying to get my phone outta my pocket. T's going nuts in the front seat and he's on a leash [00:25:00] and he's about ready to bail out. So I'm grabbing him, I'm trying to videotape this bear running down and I'm already sexing the bear in front of me 'cause his balls are about bouncing off of the bumper on the side by side.

And he's just, and he was a nice bear running down the road and I'm about trying to keep the buggy on the road and everything else. And he runs off the road and I thought, okay, I'm gonna go down and check with you guys and see where you're at and make sure that you had something going. 'cause we were gonna come back and catch it that day.

And you already had a bear going that day. Yeah, we hit one not very far into there. And we were, yeah, we, I think we were even had him jump by the time you got a hold of us, yeah. And that was up kids' first bear, right? Yep. Yep. First ever. First ever. How many kids did we have this week that killed their first bearer?

Two for sure with hos, two kids. Two kids for sure. Today. Bo and both kids, I would believe it was their first hound experience. Yeah, for sure. Today's was and I think[00:26:00] Friday's was too, but I don't know if even some guys was out their first bear though. Jacob and Adam Jacob's, bear Adam both.

Yeah. First bearers and they wanna do it every year. Now they wanna make a tradition to cook. Isn't that cool? Yeah. Those guys are good hunters too. They're, they hunt a lot at home. Yeah. I always loved taking those guys that have never been before. Yep. And they've got all these ideas that about hound hunting and then you show him a cool experience like crawling in a cave with a bear.

That's something he's never gonna forget. Oh no. Nope. Yep. Yep. It's yeah, that guy today was. A little bit hesitant about his kids coming. 'cause he is I know they're gonna eat this up. And he says, I don't wanna be buying hound dogs. And they were, they loved it. They, I mean they wanted to stay with us the rest of the day.

Yeah. That kid was jazzed up. Really? Yeah. Yeah. He shorty asked him if he wanted to go back with his dad and he said, no, I if you guys are gonna keep hunting, you care if I tag along. [00:27:00] He ate it out. Did you guys go after we'll save that story for today. We're on Thursday right now.

So I chase, I went down and checked with you. Yep. You put Jacob. We got some great vid. You got some awesome video of that. Yeah. That whole deal with those bear those dogs catching that, bearing that oak brush and stuff. Great. Big bear too. He was a good one. That was a big bear. And here's this kid that has never experienced that walks in there.

He did an awesome job. Unreal. Yeah. Did he shoot one time? Twice. But I, yeah, I just, right before we went in, I worked. I just told him how it was gonna be. Dogs are gonna be, once we realized it wasn't in a tree and it was bait on the ground, I told him, we're gonna go in, dogs are gonna be around it.

Just, I'll holler a little bit if we don't have a clean shot where, and then I'll get, we'll, I'll get some dogs back and then shoot him. They were backed enough five or six feet from him and we slipped into that oak [00:28:00] brush and he was actually packing a scope with one or a rifle with one power scope on it.

I didn't know it was a one power, but we had a lever action, open sight. And I had him switch guns and re racked one in, and, you couldn't see the bear until you broke within 10 feet of the right. And the oak was so thick and the bear was so concentrated on the dogs and we took the wind, so he didn't smell us or nothing. And just nice clean broadside shot and hammered him and. Then it just was, whatever. They started, jumped on him for a minute and then we got him back, and then he hammered him again. So it was and you're always, you're the guy that's always, it doesn't matter if somebody, stones one, you're always like, yeah, I don't shoot him again.

Shoot him again. All my videos if I, yeah. It's just as soon as it is just what comes outta my mouth. Why not? Yeah. Most people don't have the wherewithal to go ahead and follow through and rack the action. Yeah. And be prepared for that follow up shot. Yep. And it's just something [00:29:00] that you might as well tell 'em, yeah. And then they'll, most of the time if we can, we'd tie our dogs back to when we harvest something. But in a situation like that, I couldn't have went in there and the bear would've busted and we would've, whatever, been running all over the mountain. Yeah. I like 'em to die when, just to one shot quick.

And then we're not getting dogs hurt and stuff like that. Absolutely. So that bear, that it bit a couple dogs and soared some good ones up. So it was, nothing that, nothing nobody's gonna, did, it was a boar. Yeah, the size of him when I went in, but just the way he acted, just walking on the ground and fight fighting dogs like he did.

I just, that's just a more style of a boar in our country anyways. At home we have some pretty mad bad sows that have, they're older, I think, and been hound dog some, and they're, there's this one that by Hunter's house there she'll turn dog turn around and run a dog down two, [00:30:00] 300 yards.

No kidding. And anyways, I don't experience that down here. But at home, definitely. Yeah. They're different. In Utah, we're drawing tags and. Really selective. So some of them sows do get a get to be old. Yeah. So getting back to the story when I came down and you guys were already running that, so my deal was I turned out, went around the rim rock, came almost all the way back to the gate.

Yep. To the ranch here. Then he turned and went back up into a canyon there and they just slammed him. Yeah. And had him. And so I ran down. I, instead of walking in there, 'cause I Tough was trying, and that's the first time he's ever treated on a bear. And so I knew it was probably low and they were probably looking at him.

Hey folks, this is a great opportunity to tell you about a product I'm using right now that I've just flat got addicted to, and that [00:31:00] is OnX. I'm in Northern New Mexico right now as you're listening to this podcast, and we've been chasing bears. I came out here a few days early, took the opportunity to ride the ranch here, mark the trails, mark water sources, food sources, bear sign, all of that sort of stuff, and it helped me get to know this ranch when a bear is started at the bottom and he's coming to the top.

I don't have to try to find a trail. I've already got it mapped through the app. It's so easy. It's right there on your phone that you got with you all the time. Anyway, I wanna tell you also a true story, and this happened this morning when we were running a bear. The hounds were taking a track from the bottom of the canyon.

They were going up through some rocky legend country there. And they were headed towards the top of the mesa. I flipped open my onyx and boom, I know right where my trails are to get up there, if I need to pack 'em up, if I need to, just get to the top of the mesa in a hurry. I already knew where that was 'cause I'd already mapped it.

I'd already laid my [00:32:00] track from my buggy. And was able to see where all the trails were coming outta this country. Also, the other part of the story is I couldn't actually get my handheld tracking device to orient properly and tell me exactly where the Hounds were. So by opening up OnX, I had an idea the country they were in, I could see all the terrain features.

Super handy. You can get their Elite package by going to our website. Going to hounds man xp.com. Go to our partners page, click on the OnX icon, and go to their website, and you will pick up 20% off of your Elite subscription when you use the Code HX P 20. It's that easy. Folks know where you stand with OnX.

I get down wind and approach and look I'm there and I can see the bear in the tree and I just sit there and then the sun's starting to come [00:33:00] over the ridge. And I set a time limit. I thought, third, if I don't hear anything by nine o'clock, nobody's coming. I'm pulling and getting outta here. And that's what I did.

And then that was Thursday. And you, did you kill a bear on Thursday too? Yeah, that was the one we shot on the ground that we just had the story about. Yep. We just talked about that. Yep. And then Friday, Randall killed the big black bear. The real pretty bear. Oh yeah. We went over to Recon.

Is it Recon? Recon. Anyways we go up through there and start up the first side road there and rigged hard sent dogs, had a good bear race in there, a couple big loops, and then end up train a big nice owl. And then. Come up over the top towards camp here and rigged. And by this time it was getting warm and luckily I'd saved, I think I saved four dogs off that race that I didn't let go.

And I sent them and two others that had went and they [00:34:00] come down, made a big loop, crossed the county road and went clear up Bear Canyon to the very top and tree. And we all went around and walked off and yeah, we came back through camp. Yep. And went up on top Uhhuh and found a shoot off that.

Yeah. New black rim and had to fight our way down through there and got to the tree and that, you know how they are sometimes them, they're nervous in the tree and he's coming down face first, slapping at dogs, slapping his jaws and I beat Randall to the tree probably two, three minutes. And anyways, he come around the tree and I could tell the bear was gonna jump and you two beat everybody.

The tree, let's just get that out there right now. Yeah, you were young for a minute Anyways, he pulled his pistol and made a real get shot right before the bear jumped. And what was he shooting? It was a 44 on his, he had a 45 70, but as soon as I told him I seen him around the corner, I said, Randall, you better shoot him.

He's gonna jump. And by this time I was already worried. 'cause it was hot that day. [00:35:00] Yeah. And it was what, noon? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. They had went a long ways in the heat and anyways, so he pulled that pistol and hammered him. I figured this is, were you guys, where were you guys showing up with the pistols and stuff?

Your hunters. Does it worry you? No, I, no, most guys can shoot him, but I would rather have a rifle just for the fact that, how it is shooting a pistol sometimes it's not real easy. But in that situation, he was right there and Randall said he was almost even coming off that hill.

Yeah. And he was low, like dogs were reaching him almost, yep. But yeah a lot of it seems like everybody wants to be junk. You get hounds or if a guy's carrying a pistol, they, us as hunters that do it all the time, I got a lot of faith in them. But people I don't know, that's like somebody's brother-in-law or a client or whatever, showing up, man, that everybody thinks they're John Wick.

Oh, sure. And, but this guy, he's an accomplished Hunter Randall. Yeah, he's, Randall's done a lot. He's been [00:36:00] all over the place, hunter. You bet. Yeah. He's. He's a guy you can trust in that situation. You guys took everybody down here and had 'em shoot too, right? Yeah. Yeah. That first night we shot.

Yep. Yeah. Do you guys always do that? No. For the most part it was just 'cause we have range right here and it was handy. Yeah, we do when we were elk and deer hunting. But most of the time, when you're lying in bear hunting No. Unless they, if they ask, or Yeah. Whatever, they wanna shoot their gun, most of the time that's a close shot.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yep. But my choice, if a guy were to say, Hey what can I bring? What's, what do you like me to shoot a bear with? It's a 30 30. It just dependable, aren't they? Point proven today, one shot, wham bam, it's done. Yep. And that kid knew how to shoot it too.

Yeah. But they're just, you're just comfortable. And if it's if it's a dog and bear fight on the ground, they, you can open sight, you can see everything going on. Yeah. Just way more accurate. Yeah, we're gonna do a podcast about optics and bear hunting with hounds one of these days in hog hunting because,[00:37:00] I've walked to bear trees and seen everything from, 10 by 40 scopes and all this stuff, and that thing's useless.

If you catch one in thick brush, you just can't do your target acquisition and everything and time. You can't, more than likely, if you've got that sucker crank, that's a minimum. You're looking at 10 power and it just turns into a mess. You can't tell a difference in anything at that point.

Yeah. Yep. So I like shooting open sites or a zero, like a Delta Point Pro is what I've got on one of my rifles, but most of the time I just shoot open sides. Yeah. Yep. I think that just, we're not shooting long range. No, we. Like when we're hunting horseback or mule back at home? We'll, we usually have a rifle and just because a lot of our country, you might have to shoot a bear walking three, 400 yards away in front of the dogs.

You know what I mean? That's di yeah, that's, but in this country, it'd be tough to do that. It's just too thick. You know what I mean? Yeah. You gotta, you're either gonna be right with them on the [00:38:00] ground or you're gonna have 'em in a tree. Yeah. Yeah. So we got through, oh the funny thing about you guys walking out Bear Canyon, was Mario went with you.

Yeah. And he's I'll never do that again. Yeah. He said, what do I feed my horses for? Yeah. That guy's a hoot. He's a man. I had so much fun with that guy this week. Oh he's a good son. He rode with you every day, right? He did. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. He's a good guy. Yep. Never been around it before. And I think he's eaten it up too.

He's eaten it up. He told these guys the first day, how do you guys under know? About your or your dogs bark when they're out. And I think it was Brad, huh? Yeah. Brad says Mario, don't you know your, don't you know your kids' voices? Yeah. But I don't have seven kids. Yeah. Yeah. He's a good one.

He's a good one. So we're caught up with Randall Bear Canyon and Randall was Friday, right? Yep. [00:39:00] And then earlier that morning we went to Oak and we caught shivers Bear. Yeah. Robert. Yep. Yep. And that was a, that bear gave us a run that morning. He really did. Yeah. Yeah. Back and forth and dog split.

And I think they got into some more cent, I guess is what I was guessing. I think that young blue tick got into more cent like elk. He could have Blue tank. Yeah. I think he was stretching one out. Yeah. 'cause he showed up later. Pretty tired. Yeah. All the red dogs did what they were supposed to do with that out.

Blue dog. He, yep. Outcast. You're talking about your dog? Yeah. Yeah. Mine, it must have been, they thought they were brothers. Mine went with yours. Yeah. Did he? Yeah. And the plots. The plots went, they went with, yeah, they went with your dogs. Yeah. Them plots don't screw up. And blue dogs do once in a while.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. No. Yeah. I just did well that night. That was a good, that was a classic. That was a classic bear [00:40:00] hunt right there. Yeah. I thought it was. Yep. We're going down the road, we get a rig strike. We turned out on it and it just happened, went around the canyon, came back and we went down to chase the trashy blue dogs and boom, we got a tree behind us.

We come back around and they're just, it was picture perfect. We walked to that tree. 160 yards. 130 is a tough one. Yeah. Yeah. That was a pretty bear too. Yeah. A true, that's a true cinnamon bear. Yeah. And that's what he wanted. Robert said, I want a, I've killed a bunch of bears, but I want a cinnamon bear.

Yeah. And it was just, yeah. From the tiff it nose to the tiff, its tail all the way down to its nose. Just Yep. Pure sentiment. Beautiful. Good hair. Yeah. Just a nice bear. Yeah. Yeah. We had a little debate there at the tree, whether it was rubbed or not. Yeah. I just, I seen that bear move and I just didn't want him to, I had to let him go with a rub spot, but it was pint sap in the end.

Yeah. [00:41:00] Yep. So good bear there. Yeah. Then let's talk about Big Mike. Yeah. That guy's a hoot. Make Big Mike's fun is, You guys call him Uncle Mike. He calls his cooler that he packs Uncle Mike, but everybody, so when he'd always tell me, get Uncle Mike. It's always his little 18 pack cooler. But everyone else just transitioned it over to Uncle Mike for him and it worked.

Yeah. He probably eats that up too. He probably does. Yeah. He's used a good, he's here for a good time. He really is. Yep. And we got him a heck of a good bear. Yeah. Yep. We caught that same bear that I treat on Thursday. Yep. Went right back in there and it just worked out. Yep. And it was fun. We finally got to, we all got to hunt together that morning, so that was fun.

Yeah. That dude gave us a run that day. Yeah. He, yeah. It we got somebody trying to get in here. They're about to get in. Yeah. Yep. Anyways the yeah, that bear gave us a heck of a run. He [00:42:00] did. It was yeah we. Struck him on the road, struck him on the road, went up, they bait him, I don't know, pretty quick.

Yeah. He didn't, and then we brought him to the road again. Turned him back uphill. That was inadvertent. That was totally inadvertent. That was one of those deals, if you've never bear hounded with hounds, okay. Adrenaline can get high and people start ramming and doing things and we were wanting the bear to cross the road.

Yeah. More trees on that side. Huh? More trees on the other side of the road. Yes. We didn't want to, we're gonna let 'em cross the road so we didn't be in the brush and plus it was a little easier walking where Big Mike could get to the tree. If we got him treated low enough, so we're wanting to want him to cross.

And so people got a little rambunctious and got down in front of the race and turned the bear back up. So that's all we're gonna say about that. But yeah, that, [00:43:00] that bear, he took almost the exact opposite track that, that when I caught him on Thursday. Yeah. So he went up in that canyon where I treat him.

He came outta that canyon, went around the rim rock, started to drop down, almost got to the road. Then he is parallel on the road above us, probably 200 yards and got behind us. And then we, yeah, we caught ended up catching him after he crossed the road. Yep. Yep. Good deal. Worked good. But yeah, he crossed the road and we still fought him for probably another 30 or 45 minutes.

Huh? Yeah. Yep. So before he decided to get up a tree. Yeah. It's because I turned tough, loose. Yeah. Yeah. I was actually surprised when I seen him up there. I, after not that he made it, I was just, there was just more strange dogs there, and I'm like looking around and everyone was, they checked him out, but he lets [00:44:00] everybody knows that he's a dog too.

Yeah. When they come pump and sniff him, he gives him a little growl. It's Hey, I'm a dog. Yeah. Yeah. I, in hindsight, I shouldn't have let him go. It worked. I don't the bear tree. He, yeah. I'm sure he did it down when the top got there, he popped up. Yeah. As soon as he got there, he is just boom.

Hey, it changed. He made that whole race on Thursday though. Yeah. He's a cool little dog. He's, he really is. I've been watching you rig the last two mornings and man, he's got his head out and he's just hunting the air hard and he's busy with rigs. People don't believe it. They, I get all kinds of comments about him when I pack him around.

It's oh, whatcha gonna do with that little dog? Whatcha gonna do with him? Is that your squirrel dog? Is that your, he can do whatever he wants. Really? Yeah. But we've driven past elk and deer and everything, and he just, he doesn't care about that. If it's something that's like dangerous, he's all about it, Koons.

And if it'll put up a fight, he's not into the chase he's looking for, and I think he [00:45:00] knows, if it'll put up a fight he's all in. It's lemme go. Yeah. And he hits it and hits it hard. Blows my eardrums out. I don't know why I put him in the front. It's just funny. 'cause I can sit there and videotape him and nobody believes it.

It's just like little bitty dog and he's just hanging out the side of the side by side and just racking him off. Yep. Yep. Then after we caught that barrier, Hunter's let's go catch another one. Let's go. Let's go catch another one. Was that yesterday? Was that No, that was yesterday. Yeah, it was yesterday.

Yeah. Yep. And that's what we're gonna call this podcast. One more dump. There you go. Oh my gosh. That was terrible. When we got down to the road, somebody, Mike was saying you guys know this country pretty good. And I told him, I said, if I knew this country better, I'd have never gone off that rim. Hey, I told you I'd got your dogs from you.

I know, but the day that I can't get my own dogs is the day I quit. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. And then it was [00:46:00] I don't know if it was good or bad, but right when we got the tree, the bear jumps after he'd run. Why? When did we start that bear? We started just right. Below camp here. And it was that same little black sand.

It was that black one. That runner. We should have killed her. We should have killed her. I'm telling you, she was a pain in our butt. We She's a fun one though, 'cause you can Oh yeah. She's a puppy trainer, huh? Yeah. She puts a run if they can make it. Yeah. No kidding. But so we get done with Big Mike's Bear and Hunter's we could probably go catch another one.

Huh? I'm like, yeah, let's go. And boom, we hit that little black running Sow and ran her all the way up in Bear Canyon tree in a tiny little tree. And I never saw the original tree. I just Wade got in front of us, me and shorty and Wade and Levi all walked down and you were coming behind us and we got bad way behind you.

Them lava slides were pretty good. Huh? Man, I'm telling you what, when I was 30 years old. How old are you, hunter? 28. 28. When I was 30 years old, I was working with an officer. [00:47:00] We were checking fishing license along the Markland Dam and there's big boulders and stuff down there along the dam, and people just comp chunks of concrete and stuff and you just go down there and skip across it and check fishing license.

I had an old, an older officer with me that was around 50 years old, and I'm just skipping across here, just going down through there, checking fishing license, not thinking a thing about it. And I look back and he's like crawling through these rocks. And I was like, what the heck is he doing? And then I got a taste of that.

That was my lesson. I learned something every time I go hunting. And yesterday my lesson was humility because I had a flashback of that time. You guys dive off, dive bomb off the ledge and I, and you gave me one last chance, you said, Chris, I'm serious. I'll bring your dogs to you. I'm like, no, I'm coming with you.

And I jump off the ledge and I get down through there and as I'm going through those boulders, I'm looking down. Remember that guy that went hiking in [00:48:00] Utah that cut his own arm off, save his life 72 hours or whatever they called that. Yeah. I was having the same flashback. I'm looking down. Like I could fall in that and I could be that guy chewing my own arm off so I can live, and I'm coming down through there thinking three points of contact. Three points of contact. And you guys were way ahead of me and got to that first tree. Now the bear and the dogs ran. I was in a good position though. Yeah. I told short to yell at him. I said, they're gonna come right for you. They had to, I saw, I saw all that go right by me.

Really? I was like, woo. I was like, yeah. Who's the smart one now? Mar Mario was the smart one. 'cause he, we asked him if he's go to the tree, he's and he looked off that rim and said, no, I'll see you guys later. He said, you guys have a nice walk. Yeah, that's what he said. I'm going back to the bug.

You, I'll bring him around. Oh, he'd already done that. He ain't dumb. No. But the rocks were just part of the oak brush was horrible. Yeah. And then fighting after Wade coming around the corner and he actually got a little video of, she's right. The dogs are jumping up and she sees him and just p bails makes a big [00:49:00] loop, runs clear back and trees what, 60 yards off the main road?

Yeah. Another two miles. And we, at this point, we're committed and the oak brush is just, we're already headed downhill. Yeah. You literally have to crawl through some of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I could always tell when you guys hit an open spot, like you'd open up the distance on me.

Because I was fighting oak brush. I stayed consistently behind you about 130 yards after I got through the boulders and you guys would hit the oak brush and I'd close the distance. Then you break outta the oak, your brush, and it jumped at two 60 and I was like, crap. And so I get, get to the edge of the opening.

I was looking at my OnX and everything else. I'm like, okay, there's an opening. It had get in there and I'd you guys hit the oak brush and I'd close the distance and then I'd hit the oak brush and it'd go whoop, stretch back out again. I was like, dang. Gone. Yep. That was crazy. That was, it was hot too, huh?

I got hot that last tree. Them dogs were, that's the main thing I was worried about. Yeah, me too. I told Wade, should we stop 'em? And [00:50:00] anyways, by that time, they were getting for enough that we were in and outta signal and luckily Tyson and them were all around the other side of the road there and Yeah.

Yep. We got some water to the dogs and pulled them off the tree and it all worked out. Yeah. A good day that all worked out. Yes, sir. And then today was a good day. Today was, I didn't even hardly break a sweat today. No. Today's the day where you don't want to take guys that have never I guess we did take a kid that have ne has never done it before.

Yep. He got to experience the whole thing. Everything. Yep. But I'm glad it was a kid and not some older person that's the guy that always says, oh, hunting with hounds is easy. Yeah. Because it wasn't a hard walk into the tree and stuff like that, but Yeah. But the bear was about ready to go.

He was. Yeah. When we, he was gonna jump we didn't tie dogs up. We just made the call. Told him to shoot it. And he stoned it. He stoned it. 30. 30 [00:51:00] again. 30 30. Hit the ground. Hit the ground, and it was over. Yep. But that was a cool, that was a cool deal this morning. 'cause Brad was out front.

Yep. And how'd that all shake out, hunter? Because I was third in line. Yeah, I was, me and shorty got bull crapping looking at a bear track and Or I was behind Wade. Was I behind you? You were right. Yeah. You, no, I think you were behind Brad then. Me some. Right there. We were all right there. I don't know.

Maybe it was Brad. It was Brad. Me. You, did we get a rig on that bear? Yeah. Yeah. Got a rig strike. Yep. We'd hit a rig before and that's where that big bear track was. It had to be the same bear. Yeah. Up the road. Back the road. Yep. And we tried to turn out on it and couldn't get him started there. And I think who said it?

It's somebody just let a couple dogs out and see if we can get him rolling. Yeah. Because we were all rammy. We're like, oh, we're gonna dump everything. Yeah. Dump the box. That's what I, and we did. That's right. Yep. But yeah, a little bit. We got that [00:52:00] next egg and a little bit more controlled on the dump and got him going and got everybody packed up to him and.

Everyone had a dog in the chase this morning. Mine was not chasing anything. They were just out for a walk. No, they were there. Oh man, they, I'll tell you what, my dogs were so shagged out today. You just can't get a, I cannot, I would have to spend a month out here ahead of time to get dogs. Leg up the rock is different.

The elevation's different. Everything's different. And to think that you, what are we in five days into the season? My dogs are trashed. Yeah. I, all our dogs are, they could use a couple days, they're all starting to pack a foot here and there, or cut up or, yeah. It's, even if they're in great shape, they've done a lot of running this week.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Through our country. Yeah. Through a lot of that lava rock. And that's, that eats a lot. We didn't, we wouldn't have caught that dog. We wouldn't have caught that bear this [00:53:00] morning with my dogs. Never caught him. You, what do you have only have four dogs here too though, don't you?

Yeah. Yeah. And they went almost every day. So that's, they've gone every day. Every day. Yeah. Yep. The second race yesterday is what? Yeah. That, that was sealed the deal for me. That was probably the hardest race we had all Yeah. Really. With the heat and everything, that was probably the toughest one.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. But it was just a deal. I think my blue tech female made it to the tree, and then, I don't know, she, I'm walking into the tree. She comes out. Yeah. I don't know. And then Diablo fed back in and somebody put him in the box. He was so wrecked at, he was just, yeah. They heard the side by side come down the road and Tyson stopped there and they just went over to him probably looking for water or something, yep. And there's easier country down here where them dogs are, them bears are in more pine country and open. And the dogs. You can just run and tree 'em, yeah. Here it's a bear fight on the ground. Almost every time you turn one loose. [00:54:00] Yeah. Especially for income.

You do have to have some pressure on these bears to get 'em stopped, I think here. I agree with you, man. And I'll tell you guys are running, mostly what are they? English dogs. Would you classify 'em as English red tick? Yeah. I like our dogs. I, they have a little bit of everything in them besides plot.

Yeah. You don't want any of that crap in there? No. Mine have plot. That's why he just has plot. Oh, you, that's why they're, that's why mine have a little bit more holes in them. Yeah. Oh, Wade, I love you, man. The only reason you have a plot is to blame everything that goes wrong on it. You never have to make excuses with your own plots.

That's right. Wade has a plot, so I, every time something goes wrong when we're together, it's her fault. Yep. But yeah, in 1980 Bruce got a little plot dog from Cap Atwood. He was a famous lion hunter from, I guess he's capitalist from Utah, huh? Yeah, he's from Utah. Anyways Bruce got at his wedding present and they have been putting that kinda stuff in it since then.

And you but I guess his dad, George did [00:55:00] have some plot dogs before that. But that's a different story. They, them dogs got into some poison back in the day and they kinda had a restart over in the late seventies and eighties and anyway, so that's where a lot of it comes from. Do you know where their plots came from?

Yeah, I mean what, I've tracked them down weren't they Willis, Utah? Willis and Bruce's dad hunted together. So Willis chased George Nay down a mineshaft and begged him to sell him dogs. And he finally did. Then they started breeding their different Do what? Pit bulls. He chased him down a mineshaft.

Yeah, he was a minor. Okay. Before he was a government hunter and Willis was calling this story, Willis was calling him to buy dogs or whatever, and George didn't have any, or whatever was the time. They weren't friends at the time. Willis shows right up to George's work there in Solani, Utah.

And was talking to him and George just went on his day to work and I guess Willis followed him right down the shaft, coal miner, trying to convince him to, anyways, [00:56:00] whatever they ended up being best good friends in the Willis was trying to buy dogs from George. George Nay. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yeah.

Bruce's dad, I mean he was just, I wonder where George NA's dogs came from. 'cause all the plots came from the east. All the handle came from, so I think what they come, I think where they come from was that Brandon Burger, but I don't know if there was, nobody ever said that they were. But the more I track it down and the people that were around Vernal, Utah at the time got.

Dogs from was it Dale? Dale Brandenburg. And then I and I think they all went back to the plots. Yeah. Or the Vaughn plot and Sure. John plot, I think, yeah. 'cause that's where Dale went and got his, and my little plot is is one of those got the darker, she's Yeah.

The dark belin. That's what all of the plots used to. See. Will used to have Utah's my, one of my heroes because he's the one that said, if you can't catch a bear with four dogs, you don't need more dogs. You need better dogs. Yeah. So that's why I've got four. Yeah. Them guys they started breeding the pit bull and [00:57:00] stuff into 'em.

And I don't know if that Bruce always told me, he said, my dad experi experimented with everything, but you don't need anything besides a straight hound. Don't need to, you don't need Need to mix 'em with pit bull or they tried German Shepherd and whatever, but just straight hound, just get good ones.

Yeah. But George's the pitchers of George when he first caught lion was just white shaggy looking sheep dogs. And then, this was, in the, do you guys, do you both hunt these dogs on bear and line? Yeah. Yep. Yep. So what do you think the difference is? 'cause some people say, I want straight line dogs.

I want straight bear dogs. Yeah. It's, I mean it's, I think it's really tough to get both to do really good. Before I met Wade, my family's more of a straight lion hunting family. That's what we've done more of. We've had some nice bear dogs, but nothing like wade's. You got, but I've got, crossing the [00:58:00] crosses we've done, we've really focused on both. For what do you look for? What are you looking for? In my opinion, it's really hard to find a dog that you can come do what we did all week and cut a line track tomorrow and get to settle down and go to the rammy. Yeah. After you've been running Bears, have you noticed that it Oh, they get more jazzed up.

You know what I mean? And it takes 'em a little bit to settle down and, if they got enough experience, they're gonna settle down. 'cause they ain't gonna just leave the track, but it's, in my opinion, it's tough to get a dog that's really good at both.

And I think we've got a pretty good deal going with that. Yeah. And I would say riding with Hunter and watching his dogs cast out behind the mules and stuff is neat to me. 'cause mine do hunt a little tighter to me where they, where these guys. I think it's just 'cause they, the way they raised him and hunted him for forever and they just cast out his saber dog.

I'll watch that dog go [00:59:00] 400 yards and just go check a pine tree. You're in the bottom of the canyon. You see a pine up on the hill, he'll just go check it. 'cause he knows that, I guess he's lying minded. He knows that they scratched there, whatever. And he goes and checks that stuff, do you think he can smell it?

Oh yeah. Do you think he can smell it from that far away? No. When he gets it, he just, I think he just is smart. He's, yeah. And he's,

he's what? He I mean he just, he he's a, what I'd call a phenomenal strike dog. He just knows where a lion's gonna walk, if he sees a, if I ride past an outcropping, a black rim or something, he's going behind me to check it. You know what I mean? Yeah. He's just, he's really.

He really lion, does he rig lion minded? Do you rig him out the truck? Will he rig a lion out the truck? He, I've rigged a couple lions, but he's I really don't hunt him on bears, so really, I'm only rigging when I'm hunting bears. He's a pretty, pretty special lion dog, so I don't not really hunt him on bear much.

I gotcha. Yeah. [01:00:00] But he hunts bear. He, he does, he had rolled down a track and his kids are, yeah, his puppies are really doing good or doing good. So I got him hurt on a bear when he was young, and I decided I was gonna, did your dad tell you not to be hunting? My dad just said, you're an idiot for hunting that dog.

I knew Wade witnessed it. He we were down getting coffee one morning, like four o'clock and Saber's sticking his head out and we're going bear hunting. He said, you're an idiot for taking that dog bear hunting. Yeah. He's too special a line dog. He is. Yeah, he is. And he's producing good. And there's just no reason to get him hurt on a bear.

Have you have you used him to cross over into your bear. Bear stalk. Yeah. We've got we've got a couple crosses on the ground now. I have a dog I called Downey that I bred to one of Brad's bitches that's here. And those dogs work good. Then we took Saber and bred it to to, to Brad's bitch out of the cross that Brad and I had made.

And they're coming to, and they're rigging, they're pushing tracks. They're baying bears. They're, [01:01:00] I would say outta everything we had this week. They were updating in front of everything. Yeah. Really. They're really wanting to push, and I'm gonna tell you what, when we were at the end of Recon today, I'm sitting there and I'm watching my garin and I'm thinking, okay, Diablo's still in the race.

I didn't even take Cajun today. Cajun didn't even get up when I walked down there to load dogs. He was just like, Nah, dude, I'm not going. And so I just left him and Diablo's ran all week, but I dropped him today and we're down there and I'm talk Brad's standing right there and I'm watching my dog.

And of course I don't have your dogs in my garment. I don't know why don't, but I didn't put 'em in there. And I'm watching my dog go up on the ridge there, and I'm thinking, yeah, he's doing good. He's right in there. And then some dogs come around across us, in front of us and mine's still way up on the mountain.

[01:02:00] And that was all Brad's dogs. They'd already made that complete circle and loop and came around and crossed in front of us. Yeah, I was impressed. I really like going with guys that have good dogs and just watching how those dogs work. I just love it. Yeah. We do too. I love, we both love to go hunt with people and learn things and watch dogs and Yeah, if you're into it, you're into all of it.

Don't get me wrong. If I always want a dog in the front, I always want a dog that runs up front. I want, I don't want anything embarrassing me, but when you see good dog work, it's just, it just trips my trigger, man. It is. You just see it go and you're like, wow. And we're when we're making these crosses, we're not just, I don't know, we're going into depth and depth of detail.

We're not just, hunter has a good dog and Brad has a good dog. We actually put it on paper and made [01:03:00] sure it was every trait they did, everything that we wanted when we made the cross throwing Sabre in, it would what we thought would put a little bit colder nose in it, I don't know.

I add a little more speed. I don't know how so do you, so do when you breed, are you looking at, okay, this dog is lacking this, but this dog is strong in this? Or do you look at this dog is strong in this dog is strong in this. So that's a good match? Yeah, we do.

But what's your evaluation sheet look like? You're looking at nose drive. Me, I want nose toughness because most of the time we're on horseback and whether you're running or something not, your dogs are getting a lot of miles. So nose toughness brains. And then speed in tree. Tree tree's.

Fourth. Tree's probably fourth for me. Yeah. But we want 'em all to do. I want everything to do it all good.[01:04:00] You make a cross and you got two different styles of dogs and you think you're gonna get happy medium, but most of the time you get some like the mom, some like the dad uhhuh.

But this cross we're seeing a little bit of both. Like it's really mixing you're getting the happy medium with them, yeah. But is happy medium what you're really looking for? You're not looking for medium. No, because you like the style like the saber dog.

I would, I want 20 of him. Yeah. But that's, and then you can bear on him too 'cause you got 20. Yeah, that's right. But it's not realistic. You have a few special ones in your life but the dog, the cross that we were talking about Brad's female that I bred the Downey dog to she does everything good.

She cold trails. You get her out on a dirt lion. She's gonna roll down it, she's gonna tree. She's tough. She's gritty on a bear. And she's smart. And she's smart. Really smart Downey's, smart Cul overnight a day old Lion for sure. He's different style. He is a little bit, [01:05:00] he's tied her mouth.

He's just tied her mouth, but he'll he opens, but just a little bit tighter on them. Cold tracks. But he's tough, smart trees. Unreal. Locate dog. And then we bred br So Grace, I guess when Brad's bitch did all that, Downey Grace, that was Grace. Benita did it all. She was just what we wanted.

We wanted. So you're looking at generations too. Yeah. Yeah. Generation, consistency, good greatness. Yeah. What did their litter mates do? Did they all turn out good? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's not, I've had a dog, one dog in a good, in a litter work and it was a really nice dog and bred that and then got some duds outta the deal.

And I think it was just, 'cause they bred to that dog, that her litter mates were all duds. She wasn't, but that trait carried over, yeah. We're looking at, we're looking at dogs that do everything and we want to [01:06:00] evaluate all the litter mates as well. And we try to put our puppies in good hounds, men's hands so we can really get a full evaluation of what they're doing.

Isn't that the toughest thing? Yeah, it really is. It's the same way with coon dogs. Everybody's Hey, when are you gonna have litter of pups? Make sure you put me on the list. And some people, you don't want 'em on your list. Because I don't want 'em in my backyard for sure.

Yeah. But I wanna send one to somebody that can hunt hard and can get outta here and get outta my backyard and go hunt the dog. Want somebody like sending one to Chris that does a little bit of everything to see how, 'cause he's not just hunting coons, he's hunting. Yeah. He's hunting bear and coons and, you know what I mean?

You don't want me turning dog, your dogs loose on hogs. Hogs. Yeah. You don't want me turning your dog. It would be cool to see what dogs Yeah. I, but it would just to see what they did. You know what I mean? Yeah. It could be crazy. That's why it gets, the trash is packed around and they don't know what they're supposed to run when they to the ground.

That's, [01:07:00] oh, it's crazy. But yeah. But to go back to it, we're just, we want 'em to do everything and them three dogs that we crossed to make what them puppies we have now, they all, we, like I said, we bred the Downie dogs or the Bonita dog that did it all. Bonita dog did it all good. Yeah. That was grace to Downey, and then cut Bonita.

But Anita and those two dogs did everything. Bonita did everything. Then we more or less Brad and I, more or less outcross to Hunter's dog that did everything. And these puppies have been, so that's the key. That's what I was trying to tap into. We'll get lost in the sauce with the names. Sure, sure.

But you're looking for, man, you've got a dog that can do everything. You've got a dog that can do everything. We've got generations of dogs that did everything really good. They might not be 10 in every category. Oh yeah. Never. You're a high seven and a half, eight in just about everything. Or you're not breeding them well, and I'm sure you see this Chris too, but there's too many people [01:08:00] breed dogs that they don't even know what they are anymore.

You know what I mean? Yeah. They're crossing dogs. They don't even hunt. Yeah. There's a lot of dogs out there that aren't like a proven line. Yeah. And that's another thing. They're both, all these dogs that were breeding are proven of with a history of what's what, of what they're doing. They've done it.

It's just you guys are doing something right. I can tell you that because I didn't see a dog that wouldn't go, I didn't see a dog that wasn't in there, and I'm not talking it. There might've been a time or two where there might've been a dog bringing up the rear, but your dog's packed tight together.

They stay together. They really are. You guys have got a lot to be proud of on, on what you're doing because I didn't see many holes and what you guys are hunting this week. It was just it was just, it was beautiful. I loved watching it. It was a real pleasure to get to hunt with you guys this week.

Likewise, we, it's, we've both listened to you on the podcast a lot, and it was fun hunting with [01:09:00] you. Yeah. We've had a good time. And now that you've hunted with me, you thought you're thinking. I thought he'd have better dogs. Oh whatever. We'd probably go back to Indiana and get schooled on an old coon chase, huh?

Oh, may. Not with any of the junk I'm packing right now. I can tell you that's I have one that I drop with anything. I've had a few over the years, but it's a lot different when you're trying to travel around and It is, yeah. And just, you just gotta be humble about it, if I lived right here and had bear access and, like I've said, there's more gravel road before between where we're sitting in the front gate of this ranch, then I've got my whole county to leg a dog up and get their feet toughened up and everything.

And you guys just blessed to be able to live where you do and hunt like you do. You're not a kidding. Yeah. So our backyard's pretty big. Yeah, it really is. You guys got anything else? Nope. We appreciated it. Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate, enjoyed talking. Appreciate you guys working me out with you this week.

It's been a. It's been an absolute pleasure, hunter, [01:10:00] where can people contact you for autographs? No, they don't want my autograph. Yeah. No. And Wade let's just talk about your outfitting business. 'cause there's two, are there two different outfitting businesses here and you guys come together on Yeah.

Yep. So explain how that works out real quick before we you can go first. Hunter. You got more history than I do. We're Mecu Outfitters. It's a four generation deal, but we mostly do line hunts and deer and elk and stuff like that, but we're based outta southern Utah right. Outta Bryce Canyon national Park.

Yep. And then me and Wade have actually teamed up and my dad don't hunt better or anything, so I. And we do all our line hunts together, me and my dad. But, so me and Wade's kind of teamed up on the Bear deal the last few years. I think this is our fourth year doing it together. Fourth year.

Yeah. Yep. Yep. And we'll help each other on a, if I don't have a hunter in, and I know they, they got a line hunter in, and I got a nice Tom [01:11:00] and if I've got, one of them deals, if that's just a tough week and hey, come over here and vice versa, they help me too. So it's pretty special.

What's the name of your business? Pine Valley Outfitters. Pine Valley Outfitters. You got a website? So I did, but I just do in Facebook and Instagram and stuff. What do you, how we do Facebook, Instagram. Yeah. Yep. But my dad does have a website too. Yeah. Yeah. Four generations. That's pretty cool, man. Yeah.

Yeah. Pretty cool stuff. I. I just wanna thank you both for sitting down and sharing your story and sharing a great week of bear hunting on the Homan XP podcast. Yeah. Yep. So everybody, you can check out Homan XP podcast by going to homan xp.com. You can tune into all of our episodes there. You can find places to listen to that.

You can join us on Patreon to support this podcast. We not only bring you great stories and get out there and hunt, but your support helps us come out here and bring stories like this going to these great [01:12:00] places, meet great huntsmen, and we're always in it to preserve, protect, and promote the lifestyle and the freedoms to free cast hounds in the United States of America.

No matter where you're at, we'll fight. We're bringing that story for you. So thanks for tuning in the Hounds Men XP podcast. This is fair chase.