Scott Hampton – Decoy dogs

Show Notes

Ed, Tanner and Cody sit down with Scott Hampton after a morning of calling in coyotes and watching Scott’s dogs work. Decoy dogs are a blast and you can still hear the fun and excitement in everyone’s voices. Well, for Scott it may be old hat, but the rest of the guys were pumped!

There is a lot of information on decoy dogs for both the guy that is starting out and the experienced decoy dog hunter. Scott holds a wealth of knowledge and is very open about sharing what he knows with others.

Topics discussed:
How decoy dog hunting works
The types of dogs used
Coyote behavior
Hunting tactics
And much more.

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Show Transcript

[00:00:00] Don't touch that Dogmen Radio Hour on Houndsman XP. Your hosts, Ed Barnes and Tanner Hurd. Now a word from our sponsors at Your Favorite Beverage Company. Yes, beverages are always refreshing and good for you too. So remember to stop and enjoy a nice cold beverage from Your Favorite Beverage Company. And now, let's catch up to the boys and hear their latest adventure on The Dog.

Hey guys Tanner Herr here with Dog Men. I got Ed Barnes, Cody Jenkins, Scott Hampton. We went out this morning with Scott. It was his decoy dogs. A lot of learning. So we're just gonna do some talking about that and what went on, yeah, it was it was [00:01:00] something like it's been a long time since I hunted something with the dog and got the excitement that we got this morning.

The first, we did probably four sets on coyotes and we saw, I think we just saw one, just drew in one coyote, but the wind was swirling and he caught wind of us and he was gone. We set up the fifth set and it was something, it's hard to work the wind when you got Ed Barnes with you.

Yeah. That's just part of it. I told Scott that getting into it, we're handicapped, but we're going to have to do what we can. But before we get too deep into it Scott, why don't you tell a lot of, I know a lot of people aren't familiar with decoy dogs. We're hunting coyotes with dogs that.

And not in traditional sense of running hounds, like running coyotes, it's a totally different deal. So why don't you give everybody kind of a explanation of what we're talking about. Okay. With the dogs, you still have to call the coyotes in, but the coyotes have their pups, usually around mid April [00:02:00] and they're real protective.

They don't want another canine in the area and the closer you can get set up to the DN, usually The better luck you'll have, but when the coyotes come in, we're usually playing some type of coyote vocal, fight, distress, or something like that. And when they're coming to the call, the dogs will see them and go out to them, and the coyote will usually turn and run.

Dogs, I usually let them chase them 50, 60 yards. And I'll tone the dogs back and you saw how the dogs just arc around and start to come back and look over their shoulder. And coyotes will, typically follow them in and they might nip one and they'll turn around and they'll chase it off again.

The coyote might go into some tall grass or a tree line and there's two or three more coyotes in there. So one can turn into two, can turn into three. And, but what they're doing is they're protecting their pups in their den and right now we are, on the cutting line of when they kick the pups out of the den or it's called dispersal, [00:03:00] but they push the pups out of the den and they're not so much in protection mode and we got that one today that wanted to work.

Very well could have just turned and ran to never be seen again too. Thank you. Yeah, that the last set that we got some coyotes in, Scott said that they weren't, the coyotes weren't super aggressive. He's been showing us video for a couple of weeks. Of coyotes, literally like 10 and 12 feet from the people.

Cause when they get to chasing those dogs, they dropped their guard a little bit, I guess you would say. Yeah. When they lock in on the dog ones that are going to work. Wind is not a factor anymore. You can be seen it changes. There's like a switch that flips and they just go like a buck on a doe.

That's they're just a totally different animal when that happens. Yeah. Today I've called it in the past. I'm not saying I'm a call hunter, but the wind's a big factor in it. And obviously you don't want to be seen. The [00:04:00] coyote come in on the last set. Seemed like a pretty good win. But when he seen the dogs, he come in and was circling.

Cody was getting video of him. And, I seen him look right at us. There's four, four guys sitting there. All huddled up in one spot. And, he still didn't bother him. He knew he was there is what I'm trying to say. The dogs had him so focused on them. That he, any other time. Might have been a no go.

It would have been over yeah. And then the first one that came in, he was close. He had to be close and he'd look to, he might've been younger or whatever and he didn't, he didn't want any part of it. And then that one, the one that worked, he came in once and then left and came back, didn't he?

Yeah. And that's what was neat about it was like I've like Tanner, I've done a little bit of call hunting with one of my uncles, but not very much. It's You know, I was a kid when we did it, but this was different because the second coyote that come in on the last set, we, we thought we lost him [00:05:00] for whatever reason.

He took back off and the dogs chased him. And then Scott called the dogs back. I'm sitting there thinking it's over. We missed our shot on that one. But sure enough, that thing, the dogs coaxed it back into range. That today, another thing I've been amazed with is, yeah we're not talking about you're running a bear or you're running a pig, or you're trailing a coon or whatever, but the focus on them dogs is outta this world, I guess I would say, is they know what they're doing.

They're not driving the track, but at the same time, their wheels are turning and they're looking for when that call goes off. That's what I was impressed with Scott, is they know what you're there for, tell us a little bit about how you start, per se, if I was going to do it, how would I go about getting started?

I tell, I tell everybody, get you a pup and if you're lucky, get one that's going to turn eight or nine months in April because I usually, the action [00:06:00] usually gets pretty good early May and I don't like to have. Dog younger than that out there. Cause the way I see it, if I got a six month old pup out there and I get it rolled and it quits me, that's on me.

If I got a dog that's eight or nine months old, if it gets rolled and it quits. That dog might be 15 months old before it gets rolled the first time. It's still going to quit the way from what I've seen. And I don't do anything with those pups, but let them be puppies. Play with them, get them out, mess with them.

The, like I was telling you guys earlier, teaching those dogs to come back to the tone. A couple hot dog weenies in 10 minutes, you just beep them and reward them and, do that a couple of days and you pretty much got one tone broke. A lot of guys want to drag a tail, a coyote tail around or hide or whatever.

I don't think that hurts anything, but I don't think it helps. And one thing that I tell everybody is don't kill a coyote and bring a dead coyote home and start dragging it around or dragging it behind [00:07:00] the four wheeler. Cause that could shake a dog up. They mature differently. I've had dogs that were probably ready.

at six months, but I've had some that were not ready till they were 10 months and I don't want to do anything to shake that dog up. It's just if you had one of your hog dogs was three, four months old and you put it in the pen with the hog and that dog, that hog rolled it, that dog might not want to have anything to do with pigs anymore or it might light a fire in that dog.

Yeah, exactly. You gotta, every dog is different. Just like people, everyone's confident level is. different than others. And you don't want to put them in a scenario that's gonna rattle their brain right off the bat. I get that 100%. Describe your dogs a little bit for us. The breed and in the size of your dog.

Is it a big factor? I've well, as far as when it comes to size I've had, I had the little, the dog Poot that I showed you, that you just saw the pictures of. She's 10 pounds. And [00:08:00] I've had, in June, I've had two coyotes come in that look like males, big coyotes coming in. And she'd take off to them, just her.

Turn and run, never to be seen again. Now, when you get coyotes working, say they come in and... Like with the two dogs we had today, one of those dogs weighs about 28 pounds. The other one weighs right at 40, not a whole lot of size difference, but there is some, but when you got a considerably smaller dog, when they start working, especially when you get three or more, they will target the smaller dog.

You'll have more aggression towards that smaller dog. But as far as the initial, If they're going to work, they're going to work. I just like the 40 45 pound dogs because they're big enough to handle themselves and they're small enough that if there is an intimidation factor, they're usually, I don't think they'd be too intimidating.

But, and I've had I've had black mouthed Catahoula cross dogs. I've had [00:09:00] mountain cur. Jag cross dogs the one dog today is half Donovan Pinscher, half Jag Terrier, and the Donovan Pinschers are a protection dog. They've got seven or eight different breeds. This guy took dog one, bred it to dog eight, got pups dog two to dog seven.

narrowed down to what he wanted with his cross and and those dogs, they, you can't just go find one. You're gonna have to find somebody that's in that crowd that knows you're gonna take that dog and use it for what it's supposed to be, what it's bred for. So they've stayed pretty pure and but they've got, with what they've got Bulldog in them, they've got some Malinois in them, they've got some Dutch Shepherd, some Cane Corso.

But they seem to have a pretty good prey drive with everything that's mixed in them. And so she's half that and half Jag Terrier. And, she's athletic. You can tell by, you saw she's athletic and [00:10:00] can do quite a bit. And then I've had, Some with a little bit of everything and then, of course the Paterdales, they're not big enough to do it, but what got that started was when I first started doing this I don't know if you guys are familiar with Predator Masters Forum, so they've got coyote hunting, they've got lions, bears, and houndsmen section and all that, and that's where all the decoy dog guys, their conversations and all that happened.

And And they started talking about Powderdale Terriers. Talking about how they're crazy, they're nuts, they're insane. You can't control them. There's no way you can make a decoy dog out of them. And when I first started doing this, there were a couple guys on that forum that were just critical of everything.

They claimed their dogs would do this and they would do that. And there was never any video of them. Oh, I'm too, I'm not taking a camera. I'm too busy and all that. One of the main guys... Somehow made a DVD on decoy dogs and it was an absolute joke and you're definitely wasn't any [00:11:00] proof of his dogs doing the thing.

Now, I will say that guy breeds dogs. He breeds quality dogs, but the claims he was making, no they weren't happening, but they were critical of me and one of my buddies. So we just started filming. And I was, we were throwing content after him. Content after content just, to shove it in their face and with the powder does with everything.

And then I had the powder deal and was doing it with her. And it's you're talking one of your deals the other day, people were talking about why you do it and all that. And I said, whenever You're doing it to prove something to somebody else, you're not having fun. When you get to the point to where you're hunting, you don't worry about what anybody else thinks about your dogs.

Where you're satisfied with your dogs, and you're having a good time, that's when you win. But I went for years, and I felt like I needed to produce two or three videos a week, or I was failing. Which wasn't [00:12:00] the case at all. But That's what got me started with the patterdales. It was like, Oh, I'll show you.

You can decoy with the patterdale. And I honestly, I just got lucky. I got the best dog I've ever had in my life and she did it and she loved it and she was good at it. Now she got hurt quite a bit because she's 10 pounds, but she loved to do it. So I let her continue to do it. And but Now, Mila, she's a Paterdale, her mama was a little bitty dog, and I bought her to use as a, do terrier stuff with her, to go on the ground and stuff, and she turned out to be three times bigger than I was hoping she'd be she got to do this, and she's pretty good at it, and she enjoys it, and, they know when I throw those collars on them that it's time.

Yeah, they know, they knew as soon as they got out of the truck this morning that I was... Basically, when we pulled in the driver's one, it was, you ready to go hunt? That's what they was telling us. And yeah, it was just really impressive. It's not that there's not that many people that do [00:13:00] it, so I've seen videos and coyotes up in your lap and stuff like that. I was like, yeah, how often does that happen? But today that coyote wasn't even, it wasn't that aggressive. I'll tell you that, but the still yet them dogs knew how to work it enough. And of course your tone from back.

And when you told them like, but they still know the speed, they don't just bull rush them, they know the kind of hot rod over there to them and just tease them, that's, yeah, I mean that we should probably mention that some people might think that those dogs are going out and like fighting coyotes and we didn't see any of it today.

We saw there was a little bit of nipping, but From what you were telling us they're not just going out and balling up with these coyotes regularly. It's really like a. It's really, it's a cat and mouse one thing I've noticed is, and I learned this when I was in New Mexico a few years ago because I actually stumbled across a den.

Those coyotes, when they come in, when they leave, they are leaving opposite of where that den [00:14:00] is. They're not turning and going back in that direction. They're going somewhere else. So they're wanting to take that dog away from that den. And then when the dog turns and starts coming back to us, when it's a, when they're not coming back towards the den, they're going to follow those dogs.

And, you saw that dog nipped Mila's butt and she turned around. And it was done. The dog took off, sometimes earlier, say maybe June or July ish when those, when they've got the pups are still younger, those cows would be a little more aggressive and the, they might hook up for five or six seconds, but it's not that dog's job to fight, but they need to be able to, yeah, they got to be able to move and they got to build for theirself.

I think you were saying that that's the most, Tanner was asking about. Getting some dogs and starting this. I think you said that getting a dog that well should go to the coyote is you can't train them. They just have to, they just have to have that naturally. And that was the big part of, yeah, [00:15:00] if a dog will go to a coyote, you can make a decoy dog out of it.

But I think a lot of people Wind up their dogs are just companion on stand Because number one they want to shoot the coyote as soon as they get a chance And you cannot make a decoy dog with the dog coming in and shooting it. You make a recovery dog. Yeah, and secondly The today was a beautiful day, it got warm there at the end But when you start out and it's 85 87 degrees by 9 o'clock and then at 930, it's 92 It's miserable and there's ticks and there's spider, everything, there's a lot of it that sucks and guys, they think I'm just going to hunt in the fall and the winter.

The coyotes don't work and it's hard to make a dog. And, that's why I think a lot of these guys, when they ask questions, I give them my opinion on stuff. What's worked for me, and it's not the easiest method. So they'll talk to another guy [00:16:00] that'll tell them something. That's a whole lot, excuse me, a whole lot easier.

And I always ask them, I said, you need to get your advice from a guy who has dogs, like you want your dogs to work. And when they're talking to guys whose dogs don't see two coyotes a year. What they tell him to do is easier, just like the one guy I told you about recently. He had a guy tell him, just tie your dog up beside you.

If you're gonna go out there and he's too, the dog's too young. That way you don't get the dog hurt. The last thing I want my dog to do is I don't want to be a safety blanket. I want that dog out in front of me. And you saw how those dogs will go out there and they'll watch and they'll look. And they'll get bored and they'll trot down and they'll cover some ground.

I want a dog moving. I want him out there away from me. And another thing is yeah, we hunted some hayfields and stuff but part of this was weeds. It was some of those were the dog's head. Yeah. And I think you're in my opinion. Obviously, I'm not an expert at this. This was my first time but when they're moving like that, yeah, they're not [00:17:00] like they're not beating a track.

They're but they're getting a different angle. They're on different ground. They're on this hill. They're on that hill. The trees are different. Yeah. I think that's as good as any, you don't want them to, and they was checking back in is what I would call it today. They'd come back by us.

And, but when you hissed at them, they knew, Hey, he's telling me there's something close. They knew there was yeah, they knew there was like you were talking about we pretty much had basically four dry runs first thing this morning. So if you just want to shoot coyotes, it was, it went to the When we set up at the fifth one, you started calling it almost, I mean within a minute.

A minute. Oh, it wasn't even a minute. Probably not a minute, but we had that one coyote pop up. You could have shot him right there. Oh yeah, he sat there for 15 20 seconds before he moved. But every cop that's come in, he could have shot. It just gets the way the dogs work. Yeah, we were waiting for the dogs to get into it.

And those three, we were like, shoot it. Yeah, on the second, I don't know if it was the second or the third one. I don't know if it was two or three. But [00:18:00] the one that you ended up shooting, he was working, as you say, a little bit, but it wasn't. It wasn't like some of the videos.

He was coming back. Yeah, he wasn't. He wasn't like super aggressive, but it's enough that we had him irritated enough that he was coming back. Yeah, but we saw Some dog work and then Scott goes you guys want me to shoot him and we're like shoot that fucker now

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Check them out. They got a lot of stuff to offer [00:20:00] over at Cajun Lights. One of the videos I sent you the other day, I was in Kansas with some guys that I go up there and hunt with a couple times a year. And We got in last year we got into several stands good solid stands And then the other day that coyote comes in the one that was just right there just barking And Jake shoots him like what are you doing and he no more than shoots him and you saw the dog Standing there and then that other coyote come in if he wouldn't have shot that coyote when that other dog came in that would have Been like that would have been Awesome.

Yeah. But it was still a good stand, but it wasn't near what it would have been. And he was like, man, I'm sorry. I can't believe I did that. So so we didn't get to, we didn't get to see it today, but so like normally like we just had single coyotes coming in for the most part, but the videos you've showed us sometimes it's multiple cats coming in.

So let's say you do that and the dogs are working and you shoot [00:21:00] one. Is that set over? No. They'll keep coming even after a shot. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to run a little bit, but a lot of times when you've got multiple coyotes, and usually what I try to do is shoot the least aggressive coyote first.

When I have one start backing off on me, I'll shoot it first. And most of the time. The one that gets is the least aggressive is the alpha male He lets the young dogs do the young coyotes do the dirty work. Really? Yeah, I never I wouldn't have guessed that. Yeah. Yeah, he lets those younger coyotes do the dirty work and You know when you shoot them Sometimes they'll go well, just like that one cow, he disappeared there for a minute.

He was over that deal. The last time he came back, you just keep. And what I do is I mess with sounds like I changed, I played three different sounds on that coyote when he was up by that fence. And when I'd have one that, that [00:22:00] perked him up, I'd play it. And then when he quit, I'd go back to one of the other ones.

And that's pure experimental. There's no science or proven technique behind that. It's just what I like to do. And, that other one, those other ones come back. They might, one of them might tackle up and, get. 30, 40 yards from you and then you pop him and then the other one might squirt off and come back.

But it's, yeah, it's not uncommon to shoot and those coyotes come back. That to me, that was the favorite part. My favorite part was that, we thought we lost that coyote and you just kept calling and the dogs were out there working and then sure enough, he popped over that knoll and I was like, I can't believe this thing came back.

The first time we've seen, we've first seen him up against the fence rail. He's seen us and left, but I've seen them dogs and he wanted to come back. They caught his interest. Yeah, they did. They like, like Tanner said, they definitely knew we were there. And then you kept changing the call and he'd get excited and start hopping up over top of the grass.

Yeah. And that, and with that grass, we couldn't get [00:23:00] lucky enough to call one in on a cut hayfield. . But that grass, I told those dogs and they took off where they need to go. They just didn't go far enough. But they couldn't see. Yeah, you didn't see nobody.

Nobody could see anybody. And then finally, then the dogs turn around and start trotting and the damn coyote starts moving. It's oh gosh. And you can't. Like you can't do anything. If I were to have done anything, I just let them come back. I wait till they turn and get back and then I'll try to hype them up again.

Yeah. And like at that one time, they might have been 30 yards from each other. And they didn't know each other was there. The patience on the trigger is another thing. If you wanna make one, I would say. Everything. You have to. You have to dang sure take a chance of not killing that coyote.

Yeah. To get them. To get 'em started. I guess now when you've got guys, like the government guys in the Dakotas and Wyoming and all that, that their job is dead coyotes, they're going to sometimes shoot 'em sooner than Yeah. A recreational guy like me would , but [00:24:00] I tell people, take your rifle, set it up in the sticks, and set it three feet from you.

, just 'cause if you're gonna make a dog. You're, it's not about shooting coyotes. It's about letting the dogs do what they do. And then getting the coyote killed. That's the same, that's the same in a lot of dog hunting like when we're training pups lots of times you go out with the mindset of we're probably not going to tie a hog tonight.

Sometimes, lots of times we do but I always try to tell myself like that's not the goal. Putting pigs on the ground tonight is not the number one goal. It's getting them the dog's exposure and getting the training started. When you get a bay, when you're picking on you got a puppy out there, young dog, you don't hustle.

That makes a lot of sense. But the dogs we run, they're not real rough. They're gonna stay back in bay. The more that puppy can work that bay If the hog breaks and runs, even if they lose it, if that [00:25:00] puppy can pick that track back up, that's a huge win, and that's the same thing.

You mentioned that you've hunted in quite a few different states. Have you noticed that the coyotes are different in any of the states you've hunted? Up in South Dakota and Montana, up in those areas where the country's just vast, just huge? First time I ever went up there. We've been there two days and killed one or two coyotes and every coyote like if you read the book It's going to tell you when the coyote hears a call It's going to try to get downwind and all that Most coyotes I kill around here are they come to the call and I'm not saying that I don't have coyotes get behind me and Bust me because they get downwind of me But I focus on where I want to put the coyote where he's at not letting the wind blow to him up there They followed the book they did exactly like the textbook tells you, they would go downwind and I would be sitting on the edge of a, you couldn't sit in a chair.

We just sit on pads on the ground because this, there was no flat ground [00:26:00] and you'd see a coyote six, seven, 800 yards, just trotting across to get part of that's probably the vastness of that. I think it's the vastness of it and I don't really know what else to contribute to it, but there's, but they definitely.

They played, they did the wind and what we wound up doing the third day. Typically I want the wind blowing in my face or across me, cross wind or, straight at me. What we wound up doing was setting the call out and having one of us would go about 300 yards downwind of the call and had to still shoot coyotes at two and 300 yards, but we killed five doing that.

But it was just totally different. But up there, another thing about up there, we go places here, you can pull up on X or Google earth or whatever, and I can look at stuff and say, this is probably where the coyotes are up there. Everything's the same. And there's so much of it. You [00:27:00] almost had to get lucky.

Yeah. Not that obviously we're not experts, but like when we would pull up to spots this morning. Part of it is your point in that direction, but you can tell like that area is probably going to hold coyotes, but that's what messes up this morning was that we would set up with the wind going one way.

And by the time we got our chair set down, it had spun back around. And I think you said that, when you're calling coyotes, there's. What were the three important things? Wind, and wind. Yeah. Those are the first three. That's right. Have you ever, I know you got two dogs out there with you, but have you ever tried like stick control?

No, you never have. No. You think about it, you got cadaver dogs that can find a dead body 20 feet in the ground covered with coffee grounds, diesel, pig manure. You're just not going to fool their nose. There's guys that want to promote those products and stuff. And there's, my, my challenge to them is set a little ribbon out there [00:28:00] or it shows which way the wind's blowing where you're sitting.

And call me a coyote up using whatever you want to do, get me a coyote that will come that you can put in your scent cone with any product you got. It just, it's not going to happen. Now I've had dumb luck. Like the one I told you, I'm calling, coyote comes in. This is during the winter, no dogs, shooting.

Two minutes later, another coyote comes in from a different direction, shooting. Call for a little bit more. Nothing else is going to come in, finish the stand, stand up, wind blowing straight in my face, stand up, and 75 yards behind me I got a coyote sitting on his butt just looking at me. So I'm not saying that they, but if you're banking on any type of scent control to save you from a coyote busting you, it's just, it's foolish.

It's a waste of time. So you only use dogs, what, May through September? Yeah, and then during the fall and winter, I'll take them every now and then just to get them out of the house. And, they chase [00:29:00] coyotes off, I don't care. It's not hurting anything. So I just, but they're effective right now, maybe another week or two.

You'll, you're going to see that we could go out and I'd say nine out of ten coyotes we call are going to run. We might have one that might follow them back to a couple hundred yards, but They're not going to be aggressive. Do you think, on that last set this morning, do you think that den was probably behind us?

Up there by the, that one come out by the gate, up against the fence. Do you think the den was probably behind us somewhere? Ah, it's hard to say cause that place, that's only the second time I've been to that place, ever. And I don't know what it looks like beyond there, but Most not, I don't even know if typically is the right word, but by the book, they're going to be on the edge of a hill.

That's facing east near water. So where we were when that rolled over, there was water in a lot of places. I don't know if it was Do [00:30:00] we directly east, but I think if I was guessing up there behind that gate where the gate was, if you rolled off in there, it's somewhere within a couple of 100 yards of there.

And that first one, who knows? He might have been laying in the grass at that on the fence at the corner. We don't more had our chairs. I know. You just turned on the call. It wasn't 10 seconds on your call. Go back to that. Yeah. On your volume I seen you I think he was playing with your volume some yeah, you know on your You do get higher for a little while, then you go low.

What's your main reason? That just responses or? I just, I don't call real loud. And then there's times like on the one that came in that, that busted us or got our wind. I turned it up there because where he came from is where they usually come from. And I wanted to just get some more volume out there.

But whenever.[00:31:00] I'm in a place that's a little more tight. I don't want to just blast it. Blow it out? Yeah. One thing that struck me, was it, like, how old were those dogs that we hunted this morning? Three. They've been around. They're three or four. They might be four. You, but you would start, and you got to mention your plant, you, you're calling coyote sounds, not mealtime sounds.

For the most part. But but what I was going to say was that what struck me was that you would start, If you were making those coyote calls and those dogs that are pretty experienced, they would perk up at the call itself and it's I was like, there was certain calls. I noticed that sometimes they get real serious when you turn on a certain call, but I was like, calls have gotten pretty advanced when seasons dog, they're fooling season dogs.

Yeah. Both those dogs are for, I just looked up, they just turned four. Yeah. Say we like. The canine, one of those sounds I played is just canine puppies. It's just a litter of puppies, domestic puppies, just whining how they sound.[00:32:00] That's a prey sound and a vocalization sound. It covers both.

Yeah. And but if I went out and say we sit down and we just turned on rabbit Had a coyote or two coyotes coming in. They're in hunt mode then. Not saying they won't work the dogs, but whenever they're coming to a coyote fight or a distress or something like that, they're in a different mode. They're coming to protect.

They're looking to see what's going on. Now I have in the past used coyote growls and fawn distress with pretty good success, but I don't depend on many prey sounds. Even, even in the fall and winter, I don't play. I play way more localizations than I do pray.

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Did you come from any other dog sports? Is this your first hunting with dogs? That's it. Really? Yeah, I was [00:34:00] watching TV and there was a guy named Cal Taylor. He's the guy from Wyoming, the government guy from Wyoming that I told you about. And they had on one of the channels, it was called, they called it coyote hunting is gone to the dogs and him and the guy hunted with they were doing this decoy dog deal and I'm like.

Wow, that's cool. Yeah, I didn't know anything about dogs. I didn't know anything about dogs. You never, have you ever, you've never run? Right on hound type, open, on coyotes? When I was a kid, I was born in 1970, so 77, 78, 80 ish. My grandpa hunted birds, and he always had two dogs. He had a seasoned dog and a young dog.

And I think he had pretty good dogs. Of course, I guess everybody thinks their grandpa's dogs are great. But the guys he hunted with, they used, they, they had... I think they had pretty solid dogs. So I had hunted birds with my grandpa before, and he had, had the whistle, there weren't any training collars or anything like that.

He just had a whistle that he [00:35:00] carried. And But I hadn't done anything else with dogs at all. Did you did you call hunt before that, or? I just started. Just started? Just started. I had been hunting coyotes for months. Yeah. Before I saw it, and then I got interested in it. What what year was that?

2010. 10? Yeah. Because, like I said, I've seen some videos on it. And stuff like that. But there's really... In our area there's not very many people that, not really, there's a lot of people that call hunt and it's getting big around, yeah, and that's another thing that you was talking about is your pressure, yeah, on your coyotes and stuff is, the education on them, yeah, I used to, five or six years ago, I had, there for several years, I hunted 150 plus days a year.

When I got off work, I knew where I was going. There's times I drove to Okema. Over an hour away to make one stand, but I had what I called 80 [00:36:00] percenters. I knew that 80 percent of the time I was going to call coyotes there, and I'd do that, and then there'd be times that I was a little closer to the house.

I was going to get here at this time. I was going to be there no longer than this many minutes, and I was in the truck driving to the next one, make that second stand, but they were productive, and Now, okay, here's another thing. Back that far back, 8 out of 10 coyotes that I called in would work a dog.

Now it's 2 out of 10. Really? Yeah. And calling way fewer in. And then with thermal being legal now, it's gonna be so hard to call a coyote in the next year and a half, two years. It's already hard, but it's gonna get really hard. Yeah, and the thermal deal is just getting started in our area.

And we do have the heels that make it harder. Just the terrain, it's getting around but yeah, it's gonna, we're the thermal guys. Yeah. It's all, they enjoy doing it. It is at the [00:37:00] moment. But the new wear off for, I hope anyways. Yeah, me too. I hated it that they legalized it.

Because, I was telling you guys that I know some guys from like the eastern states where they've been able to use thermal for several years before now. And there were guys that 4 coyotes a year. Then they got thermal and they started killing 10 or 12 a month. And that's a drastic increase.

Absolutely. And After about 2 years, instead of killing 10 or 12 a month, they're killing 4 a month. And it will continue to increasingly get worse. And that's the same thing around here. Because I guarantee you, if you can't call a coyote in the dark, you're not going to call one during the day. Do you ever, I mean it would have to be real close range, do you ever use your dogs at night?

Yeah, oh yeah. And the thing about it, coyotes are... Not terribly aggressive, but they are aggressive at night year round. Really? Yeah. More [00:38:00] so than they would be in the day. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a, with that. There's so much luck involved with that, with those dogs, how they'll go out. If they're going out and they cross paths or whatever, that works out great, but say we're calling and we have coyote come in across here and I've got a dog standing over there and the wind's not blowing right.

They don't have a clue. So it's just. You just shoot the coyote getting killed, but if they're coming in or, especially with thermal, you can look up and you can see what's going on. You know that there's a good chance there, or if I got a dog over here and coyotes come across, I start toning those dogs, try to get them to cross paths or their wind hit each other.

It's a little more difficult, but whenever it does happen, the coyotes are still aggressive in the winter. That's another thing on the wind. We use the wind. For our dogs, sure. But it's a factor for you on your call, and we try to drive their noses into the wind, and so it's, it all [00:39:00] comes back around to a dog's nose, and it's like with your pigs, if you knew, say you had. an 80 and you could get, you could access it from any direction. And you go in and you stop your truck and you get outta your truck and the winds that you're back, and it blows where those pigs are. 600 yards away, they're gonna smell you and they're gonna leave.

Yeah. And then, you've got the advantage of number one, the pigs don't know that you're there when you've got the. helping your dogs, but with, with the coyotes, if they hit your scent cone, that scent goes out like that. And if they hit it, if with their, if they're 400 yards or closer, man, they're gonna turn and go the other way.

Yeah, that, that one today were, I think it was the set before we got on that coyote. Cody got it on video. Just he was coming in. And as soon as he hit that scent cone he spun on a dime and was gone. And there was no getting him back. No, he was at 100 yards and then 300 in a matter of seconds.

Yeah, he wasn't locked in on the dog, so there wasn't any getting him back. And I hear a lot of guys that, [00:40:00] that hunt deer talk about, coyotes will come by. They're just doing what they do. So they come by and they shoot them with the bow, and then they talk about, yeah, this coyote came in on my trail where I walked in, and as soon as he hit it, he turned and...

was gone. Their nose keeps him alive. Yeah, exactly. It's a smart animal. Very. And that was something else. I don't know if we touched on or not, but I think it was at that, I think it was at that set where the coyote caught us. But I think it was after that, the dogs got. Out about three four hundred.

I mean they will go out and hunt and you were saying It's not as common But instead of the cow coming to the call the dogs will go out and find their own Coyote and bring it back and that's the thing about these dogs These are the two best dogs I've ever had. And I've had some really nice dogs, but just, they'll get bored.

And, there's times that they're 300 yards out here doing what they're doing. And I got coyotes over here. And I can't get the dogs called back quick enough to [00:41:00] get any interaction with the two, and you just wind up shooting the coyote. But it's a double edged sword, but I like it.

I like it when they go down in there, because a lot of times, they'll run across a coyote, and you'll hear the fight will break out, and you'll, they'll come back with coyotes. Yeah, it was, this morning was something. Yeah. That's another thing with us is, I can't tell you how many times we'll have two dogs out there, 800 yards, 900.

Man they're getting after it. Then you got one that, oh yeah, he's milling around 150, 200, you're going to be mad at him. And then he'll end up being the one that finds the pig on the other side of the road. It's just how it works. Yeah. Yeah. It's I like it when The area where we were at.

I liked how they were just out there a little bit looking and then they cruised out one time and came back and turn and look none of them are going to be perfect. There's going to, I don't know of a single person that has a dog [00:42:00] that they won't tell you has a couple of flaws. They've all got flaws, but I really, the flaws that might have I'll take them.

I can handle it. I can handle it. I'm in the control you had on him. And getting an understanding of, getting an understanding of it today. It's paramount that you have that control. And, the majority of that comes from when I get home from work, I open that gate and I let those dogs out.

And, I can, Tell them stay close and I don't know that they comprehend it or not But when I tell them stay close They don't go very far past those trees and I can call them back now across the street here or across the property line here there's some old sheds and there's something that burrows down in there and A lot of times I got to go recover dogs over there because they're in a hole or trying to get in a hole But for the most part, I've got them out here and I'll whistle them back.

Come on, and get them to come back, pet them, love on them, then let them mill around and, they're just, they're handled a [00:43:00] bunch. Yeah, think about it the big dog doesn't have any powder dill in it, right? She's got jag in her. Jag in her, but that's pretty much the same thing.

Not the same thing, but She's got some terrier in her. It points to the same point. A Jag cross and a Paterdale that at one point this morning, we're chasing a coyote and you just toned them and they stopped and come back to us to get them to chase us. And a lot of people would think you can't make a terrier do that.

Like when they lock in on game, yeah, it's hard for any hunting dog, really? Yeah. And that's the thing with the Paterdales. I don't know, maybe I'm sure hog guys probably do it too, but. They argue with each other and they fight who's dog's best, who's this, who's that. When you get a dog in the ground with a coon, if you got a dog that is aggressive and wants to hook up with one, they're going to get banged up.

They're probably going to have to go to the vet or they're going to be down for two or three weeks. You get a dog that'll get down in there and just bay and bark at one and not mix it up with them, you hunt that dog the next [00:44:00] day. And. Those guys egos get those dogs hurt and some dogs are just what they are, they're hard dogs and they're going to do what they do, but with, I like telling you, I handle them all the time.

Now, there's times that they're fresh. Maybe say you go somewhere and first stand, they get on something and it takes off running. I might have to switch over to momentary and tap them to get their attention. But no, they. And another thing you might have seen... Whenever Mila she wants to do terrier stuff all the time.

I'd beep that collar. I just beep it and she'll come stand and she'll start looking. She knows it's like, Hey, I get her attention and she comes back and gets back in the game. Yeah.

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Click on the link on our sponsor page. You'll go right to onX. maps and when you check out, enter the code HXP20 and you will get 20 percent off of your order. Know where you stand with Onyx. On [00:46:00] our first set this morning, we was in a hay field hay was still in it, the bales, we was just propped up against some hay bales and I was low and I seen some movement off to my right and I told these guys, cause I couldn't tell if it was coyote or back foot, but And end up being deer.

The dog, they sing movement, and I swear they take off that way and I'm like, oh, here we go. That's dogs again. But no, I swear just by the way they ran and the path they took. They was almost like they was seeing what was flushing those deer out of there. Yeah, I swear.

Yeah. And yeah. But it was something to see. It's just That was pretty nice. That was pretty nice. Cause that was our first set. Once again, you just hit the call and then they were, how far do you think they were? A couple hundred from a couple hundred. So we couldn't make them out at first.

We thought. We all momentarily thought they were coyote and I was like, oh man, we're getting spoiled today. Yeah,

then when he said there's two, I'm like, oh yeah. I zoomed in [00:47:00] that camera and I said, oh, they're deer. But no, it didn't need to be too easy on us. We wanted it to. Like I was saying, sometimes it's better when it's not quite so easy. Yeah, you need a little bit of a reward at the end. It was a reward. I can't explain.

Like I said, I've watched videos of it, but it's not watching videos. Don't do it justice. It's not the same thing. No, you gotta be in person to see that. It's I don't know what I would say but the when they're going back and forth, it's almost like a chess match for those dogs.

They ease

their way back and that coyote thinks he's winning, and then, I don't know, he's It's just, it has to be the dog to do it. I think, not to just bull rush one to act like he's just going to jump all over him. You know what I mean? They were playing that coyote. Oh yeah. They was just playing.

They was having fun. Yeah. Yeah. And then, it's, you talk about seeing it on film and [00:48:00] stuff. You have a coyote follow a dog in and he's standing from here to that building and just, you're sitting right there he's just going nuts. It is exciting to me. The 50th time as it was the first. It's just oh, yeah.

Yeah, they focus on those coyotes so much. Me and Cody showed up wearing camo and Ed gets out and he's in like a bedazzled shirt. Yeah. Pearl snaps. Yeah. Has his bald head out. Really? I felt bad when we come here, but. You still got the coyote. When we call hunting a bunch, you gotta be wearing, you better be hidden if you ain't got dogs.

Yeah. That's why I'm saying them Coyotes like they knew we were there. Yeah, that's what kind of blows my mind like they knew we were there especially that one. I mean he saw us right off the back, but he caught them dogs attention and he was focused on them dogs the whole time he left and then come back to see if they're still there.

Yeah. Do you think that [00:49:00] gets to be? They're just a top priority at the time. They just, they focus so much on those dogs. Yeah, it's a protection deal. They are protecting something. There's pups around. And like right now, those pups are, they're not babies. They're bigger, they are just being protective.

They're like, we were talking about this morning, like coyotes are very, I said pack, but, and I was a little bit wrong, but you correct me and said family. They're so focused on keeping their population at its peak, safe, they want them safe. We were talking about if you've got an area, say there's some construction kicks off or whatever, and part of their territory is not like it used to be, and it won't, if it'll maintain, if their area is going to maintain seven coyotes, there's going to be seven there.

If it won't, they'll push something out. They'll force one out. And if you're somewhere that will hold nine, there's going to be nine. [00:50:00] And. When you kill one, kill two, whatever, you've got the transient coyotes, especially right now, this time of year, they're out, they've been kicked out of the house.

They're trying to find a group to, to get with and be accepted. They'll hear, they'll cruise around and they'll hear that group howl or whatever and they might pass back through there three days later and the group howl sounds off and that one or two is not there. They know. They can tell.

They're going to go in and look. They're going to investigate. They might be accepted. They might not. You wouldn't carry all kinds of stuff. You have your call, your gun, my chair, decent chair, and my tripod. And a tripod. And, your dogs. They know enough what's going on. They don't, they're not running off and doing whatever I'm envy of it is we could do this on a work night and still get some sleep.

It's something to think about. The point where we'd get too addicted and want to hunt all night. [00:51:00] No, I just, I basic, I got my chair, my call, my remote, my dog remote, that's on that harness and. Either a tripod or shooting sticks. And, in my pack and my rifle, so I just put it all in the pack, go to where my shoulders and you're set basically.

Yeah. And it wasn't a whole lot, it wasn't a whole lot of walking pretty much hide the truck and get a little ways away from the truck, but it wasn't like we were, I've got places where there is a lot of walking, but today I just, I tried to set it up where we didn't have to get in and out quick and, or try to, have to walk three eights, half a mile one way and then turn around and Go the next one because it seemed it seems when you make a set, pretty quick, whether it's going to be productive or not, is that right?

And there, and there are some times where you might be the 18 minute mark and boom, there's a coyote. But with this, most of the time doing it, what we're doing and with it being not being about food and all that, it's more of a, there's an urgency and they [00:52:00] show up and they. It usually happens quicker.

How far do you think so? How far do you think a coyote that heard those calls would travel to get to it? I'd say if you're 300 yards or closer to a den you're gonna have a higher success rate if I have perfect example whenever we were in Montana Have coyotes come into, 400 yards and just sit and watch.

They wouldn't, we weren't close enough to be a bother to them or a concern, but they would come in and they'd sit and they'd watch. I wonder if, I wonder, in that big country you're talking about, I wonder if a coyote's range is bigger than it is here. I think it is. I think it almost have to be. But I can't prove it, but I know that up there I've had coyotes circling it downwind, half a mile away, and I can't tell you, What's [00:53:00] their range?

Will this 640 acres hold two groups or will it hold three or will hold one? So I don't really know. I was telling you the one in Wyoming that one male coyote that those government guys killed. He was going seven miles. There were not sheep within seven miles of where he was and he was coming in every other night killing.

He'd fill his gut up then he would carry back Like a small lamb or whatever, and they intercepted him and got him killed, and that ended the sheep killing. So he traveled a long ways. Yeah, at least seven miles. A long ways, yeah. And I will say before we go, he did make a good shot. It's a pretty good shot.

The pressure was on with the camera on him that Cody didn't get the shot. The sky. We don't know. We're not 100 percent sure whether it was. We're going to have to work on the cameraman. We don't know if that was filmed or not at this point. Free cameraman. [00:54:00] If anybody out there is is a good cameraman and is looking for a job that pays nothing.

It's in the print, ain't it? But yeah, I would say, just in closing, I would say if anybody out there gets a chance. Especially if you're in a dog hunting. If you get a chance to go with somebody, do it. Do it. Absolutely. And if you don't have that opportunity get on one of the internet sites and look up some videos.

It's not the same thing, but it's still pretty darn impressive. These dogs are working. It's a totally different type of work. I'm trying to figure out what It's almost disciplined without, it's discipline without discipline because I, everything those dogs do other than toning them, they are just doing what they do.

I can't make a dog do something a certain way. Every dog develops its own style.[00:55:00] But. With the exception of hitting that tone button, it's just, they're just doing what they know to do and they, they like it. It's almost it's obviously we're hunting, but it's, I'm not trying to discredit the dogs, but it's almost more like they're like a working dog.

As opposed to a hunting dog, even though they're, yeah, they're not going to find anything. They're not, it's a combination. I'd probably say 80 percent working 20 percent hunting. Cause I feel like when they go out, they're working, but they're also hunting. They're trying to find their own.

And those two are really good at finding their own. Yeah. They're using their nose, but. A lot of it, they're using their brain, how to work that coyote and bring him back to you. Like when we first got started, me and Tanner were watching dogs and I think we were leaving that, that first set and Tanner goes, The big dog is doing all the thinking.

And he's I've got to feel on that little dog. Is probably a shit starter.[00:56:00] I tell you what she will she doesn't travel as fast as the big dog. And I've, I got some, the videos, some of the videos I wanted to send you there too long. They won't let, it won't let me send them, but we had, we were in Montana and this coyote came in and it was probably, I think when Daniel shot him, he was 478 yards out.

But they were going and coming back and the coyote just wouldn't come any closer. And fortunately, I was with a couple of guys that are precision long range shooters. So 400 yards ain't nothing to them. And they just kept going and coming. And then when they came back, they were probably 250 yards from the coyote.

Cause I kept toning them back, hoping that coyote would break and come on in. And it never did. So they shot. And Hooker takes off, she runs up there and she's there and Mila's going behind her. She's about seven or eight seconds behind her and Daniel goes, Oh, short stuff. She's going to get there.

It might take her a while, but she, and she runs in there and hits that [00:57:00] wham. She's not scared of nothing. Yeah. You can just, when we got, when he pulled in the driver this morning, I could just, you can just tell by her attitude is she steps where she wants to step. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, we should mention that.

We should probably, let's get some video before we leave, but Scott has one of the best kennel setups I've seen. It's top notch. It's got my brain. Yeah. It's nice. I can sleep in that building with the dogs. Yeah. I can show you, I can tell you what I'd change if I was going to do it again.

What would you change? I would make where we live, it's not in town, but there's neighbors and I probably wouldn't want to do it here. But if I was a little more remote, like we used to be where you come off there where the drain is to flush everything down, I would extend out past that.

[00:58:00] Further whatever I could afford panel wise or maybe even fencing to keep those dogs They're on concrete all the time and I put that pad hill and that muster stuff I treat them with that ever twice a week or whatever, but that hot concrete will They don't wear on their paws and hell it might toughen them up but it does toughen them.

It toughens them up but they still need a little moisture added to them. An animal needs dirt. Yeah. I would extend those runs out another 10, 15 feet, whatever, where they could get on dirt when they want to. Yeah, we should explain it. He's got, he has a how big is that outbuilding?

Twelve by twenty. He's got a twelve by twenty building and then off of one side he has. runs of kennels that go off the side of the building and then the building is air conditioned. Does it have heat in it? Yeah, I got a mini split in it, but the problem with the mini split, the lowest the temperature goes 62.

So I just use a little stand up heater. I keep it about 45 in there in the winter. So the dog, so the dogs inside the dog can [00:59:00] access the building through a door that's on hinge so they can get out of the weather if they want and they've got a little It's great. So just a crate inside that they can sleep in or hang out when it's hot or cold.

And then he's got on the out, just outside of his kennel spaces, he has concrete poured past the panels. And then he has a sloping trough in the concrete that goes to a septic tank just for the dogs. There's no dog smell. Like I, I imagined inside the building that there would be like dog smell, but all you could smell was cedar.

Yeah, and I use that enzyme, some enzyme deal. For the septic tank no, for the skunks for the odor. Oh, Hey, listen, those are the two, those are two champions. We're going to have a skunk hunt. We did last year because I think I can hang. We did have a competition and what happened to her?

We lost because we left his dog at home.[01:00:00]

You say that when was the last time my dogs caught a skunk? When was the last time your dogs caught anything? laughing

I'm just kidding It's about time to quit laughing I just want to thank you for taking this main thing I owe you back I already got my dates down for next year And places where we need to go Yeah, I think next year we're going to come hook up with you a little bit earlier. Yeah. This, we're recording this, it's September 8th, 9th?

9th. It's the 9th. And like we were, like Scott was saying earlier we're right on the tail end of it, and the coyotes just weren't quite aggressive enough. So if we'd have probably, we were going to try to do this a few weeks earlier, but it was so hot. So next year we'll get at it a little bit sooner.

I appreciate you guys having me. I really respect [01:01:00] you as, dog men and the things you do with your dogs. And I'm actually, I'm honored that you thought enough of me that to... Let me be on here and come hunt with me. It was super fun. Yeah. Yeah. I've hunted, I've called in a lot of coyotes, but hunting with dogs is my new way to do it now.

There'll be a, there'll be episode two. That will be a good deal. So we'll see y'all next time. Yep. Thank you guys for listening and check out decoy dogs. Yep. Check out Scott Hampton.