Semper Doggin the LIVE Call In

Show Notes

Do you ever have something you just need to get off your chest? Something you want the world to know is on your mind but have nowhere to spread your message? The Deep & Lonely Podcast is here for YOU during those times with our new LIVE CALL IN!! Join host Bryce Matthews and his guest Steven Basham as they discuss rules and rule change proposals in the sport of competition coonhunting with three individuals from different parts of the country. Our guests joined us via phone call to discuss the rule change proposals they feel need to be addressed and how they would go about doing it. A light hearted podcast with two buddies who love to debate each other coupled by LIVE input from our listeners made for a show you are not going to want to miss out on. Lace up those boots….it’s about to get deep!

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Show Transcript

[00:00:00] My name is Bryce Matthews, and this is The Deep and Lonely Podcast presented to you by Houndsman XP. During this podcast, we will dive deep into what makes the ultimate top level and unmatched extreme competition. Coon Hunter. We will hear stories of old tales of today, and we will dive deep into what separates the men from the boys.

The stories will be raw, the truth will be told, and the comradery will be second to none. Pull up your chaps. It's about to get deep.

All right guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Deep and Lonely Podcast presented to you by Hounds Man XP. Today I got one of my good time buddies with me. I conned him into sitting down across the table out here at the Hunting [00:01:00] cabin. He told me he wasn't gonna get on here, but by golly, here we are.

We have Mr. Steven Bhe live with us tonight on what I think is gonna be a pretty interesting episode of Deep and Lonely Podcast. Are you excited, man? Yeah, don't let him sound all shy. If anybody knows me and has me on Facebook, you probably also see the stuff that he posts on Facebook, and he is not shy, so do not let him hide behind this microphone.

Today's topic is gonna be all about rule changes. And rules. We're gonna try and probably stay mainly in P K C, the Professional Kennel Club as that is the Kennel Club who's proposing the rule changes right now. And let me tell you guys, it has been a firestorm of the last couple weeks. The people and their ideas on these rule changes, what they've submitted, what they think needs to be done with them, everything under the sun people have an opinion on.

And we're gonna try and narrow that down today here on the Deep and Lonely Podcast. Basham, let's just get a real quick deal. Hot or not, P k C rule exchanges submitted by the [00:02:00] members. Hot or not? Oh, it's definitely hot. Oh, it's a hot, it's a hot topic right now. He says it's hot. Okay, so let's do a quick, let's just do a quick introduction here for you Basham, guys, the format of today's podcast, we're gonna do a little bit different here.

We're gonna. Bash I gonna lay these things out. We're gonna talk about these rule changes in the proposals and then we're gonna do an on air live call in from some of you listeners. We made a Facebook post earlier today saying that we are gonna be on here to talk to some of you guys. I know it was last minute, but I didn't want you to forget about it.

So we've got a few guys lined up that have something to say about these rule changes. We're gonna get them on the phone, we're gonna talk to them for a few minutes, hear their side of the story, and then we're gonna just spin off of there and, wrap this thing up. So this is gonna be a little bit different format than what we're used to.

I hope you guys enjoy it and I hope more than anything this goes as planned. This is flying off the cuff, but that's what we're good at, ain't it? We're fine by the seat of our pants, bud. That's what we've done since the day I met you. Isn't that what we do? We've never done anything ever any different.

My hype man. Ride or die, right? Hype [00:03:00] man. Ride or die. Heck, I ended up with a future wife out of this deal flying by the seat of our pants. I'm just a matchmaker. You can call me Hitch Chu. We, I'd tell you what guys, if we had time for all the stories here, you would be tired of listening to us.

It'd be six hours worth of podcast. Oh boy. All right. So Basham, just give us a little bit of background on you. Where did you start at in hunting? How did you get to where you are now? Let's just do a quick brief overview. All right. Quick and brief. Very brief. I know you're not very good at that. Yeah, it's very long.

Man, I started coon hunting. Whew. Back when I was little. Bitty. My dad got me started. His great uncles got him started, so it was a family thing. We had a pretty good size Coon Club in Hancock County Hallsville, Kentucky, and had a bunch of participants. Our club hunts alone would draw 40, 50 dogs.

And so my grandma lived right next door to the fairgrounds. So every single event that was held there, I was there. I traveled with my dad going to the old style of U K C hunting, and that was I. Field [00:04:00] trials row cages, tree contests, water races, bent show, and a night hunt every single Saturday.

So we traveled a lot and did a lot of that. And then I became 18 and a little bit after that, I joined the Marine Corps. I had to quit coon hunting for quite a while. And then as luck holds it, I just ventured back to this area and it's been hot and heavy ever since. All right. I do wanna dig something that was brief.

I'm proud of you. Good job. Hey, I'm try, I'm trying to help you out here, bud. Good job. Proud of you. Let's go back a little bit here. Talk to me about your days in the Marine Corps. What all was involved in that? What did you do as Dogwise? Dogwise. Okay. So there is a little bit to deal with Dogwise.

Yeah. I tried to skimm over that part of it. The first five years I was at Camp Pendleton, California. That's where I was supposed to be stationed. I spent most of my time in Iraq, but I didn't really do too much with Dogs Zen I actually got out of the Marine Corps at that point in time and went back overseas as civilian [00:05:00] contractor for a little bit.

And then I. Technically got recalled from the inactive reserve. But before they could recall me, I just went on and reenlisted. And when I got to Camp Lejeune, they were starting a program called the I D D. Detector dog. And basically what we were doing is taking Labrador Retrievers field Champion duck dogs, and we are turning them into off-leash bomb dogs.

So basically when people are up to speed on how most bomb dog stuff works, it's usually with mouths or German shepherds and it's on leash because they're dual purpose dogs. So they're bite dogs. They're track dogs, plus they're bomb dogs. Due to the terrain and stuff that we were dealt with over there, we found that it would be very advantageous to have a dog that you could work a hundred yards out, 150 yards out that way when the dog alerted on a potential threat [00:06:00] that it wasn't 10 feet from you.

So they sent me to school for six months to K two solutions in Southern Pines, North Carolina. To basically learn how to do field trials for bird dogs. So I learned hand and arm signals and all that. And then we turned a duck dog into a bomb dog by imprinting them on ammonium nitrate C four deck cord blasting caps, whatever the enemy's t p was, which is their tactical procedures overseas.

Yeah. So the imprinting is something that Heath talks a lot about on the Journey podcast. Yeah. You know that they deal within the police canine world Yes. Imprinting for, to smell out different narcotics and stuff like that. Yes. And they're talking about imprinting the dogs, these bear dogs, especially now, on starting to imprint them early on the scent and stuff like that.

Have you seen a difference, or do you think like the imprinting could be used in the coonhound world? What's your thoughts on that one? I think it already is. When you think about it, [00:07:00] imprintings just, it's showing a dog what you want it to run, and then it's rewarding that dog for finding or getting what you run.

So it's imprintings as simple as showing it a cage coon. And then, you know how we always do, leave the dog in the box, cut the coon, the raccoon, five minutes and then pull the dog out and see if it can run it. You know what I mean? It all starts where by showing it face to face with a raccoon and then pulling it up a tree and letting it tree on it.

That is the same, that's the same concept as imprinting a dog. I gotcha. All right now that we have just a brief overview on your background, of course, let's get into these rule changes. P K C is an every other year rule change, I believe. Every other year you have a list of state directors or board members who are appointed to each state.

Yes. The members of that state contact their state representative. They let them know, Hey, here's what I'd like to see [00:08:00] done differently. Here's how I think we can better the sport. Here's the rules that I think will improve the Hunts weekend and week out. And those are submitted to the state representative.

And the state representative then turns them into P K C. Yes. The state representatives are also responsible for the voting on these rules. Yes. So we've got some rules that come in that are just off the cuff. They're outlandish. We all know never's gonna pass. We've got some rules that are like, yes, those are gonna pass right now.

A hundred percent. These are good. And then we got those rules that are in the gray. They're in the middle, they're in the middle. Those are the hot topic ones. Those are the hot topics. They are causing controversy. People are losing their minds over 'em. So let's go through this list real quick that you've got pulled up here.

You want to go through these first? Let's just read through some of 'em to give the listeners ideas of what our call-ins might have on their mind. All righty. We're gonna skip through some are just basic raising voices, vulgar language. We can all agree that [00:09:00] those are pretty well common sense.

We got one by Nikki Hale. Cast must stay together in all pro cast. I would propose that the use of tracking devices who hot topic be disallowed during all pro casts except during timeouts. Okay. Now those are two different rules though, right? The tracking device was one rule. No, it's all one. Tracking device is one rule.

And staying together as a cast is another rule? Yes. Or they're the same? No, it's all, they're combined. It's all written into one rule. Okay. And that was submitted by Nikki Hale? Yes. Okay. All right. Then we have one submitted by Steven Smith, non-hunting judges or prohibitive from carrying or looking through heat seeking units thermals.

Next one, Jeff Nelson says he wants to propose that the age 60 be all this Senior hunt eligible for all events. Chris f [00:10:00] Fryberger, pups hunting and pup cast or pup derby must have less than 4,000 lifetime earnings. Chris Fryberger raise entry fees and open events by $5 and put the payouts towards the hunter.

Joey Cravers the cast will remain together at all times. Stephen Smith cast must stay together in all Pro Classic with an entry fee of a thousand or more. So you can already see that there's multiple proposals to keep the cast together. It's just the, it's outlining stipulations of it vary.

And I think that's where I got confused there just a minute ago. 'cause I knew I'd seen a rule by itself where it was, all casts must stay together. So that's where I got jacked up. No problem. Now I'm not sure Bryce, there is a, there's one option, one handler recut. That is huge. So we will just go ahead just for time [00:11:00] purposes if you want.

We'll go ahead and skip that one. Strike points. The first, this is there's multiple different strike points proposals. This one here is by Jeff Nelson. First, 30 seconds after turning loose is grace, period. You do not have to strike the dog in the next 30 seconds. Dog must be struck on or before the third bark, or it will be minus any dog that is struck before the minute will be struck for 50 and all dogs thereafter be struck for 25.

If no dogs are struck in before the minute, a hundred seventy five, fifty twenty five strike points are available. The next one in here is the hot topic. I would say this one right here is probably drawing more interest. And more controversy than any of them. And it's by Josh Watson. All dogs will, again, by being struck in for 25, the dogs will then be [00:12:00] awarded strike points by the order in which they're declared treat.

For example, the first dog declared treat will receive a hundred strike points. The second dog declared tree will receive 75 strike points and so on. Dogs will remain at 25 strike until they are declared tree or the fourth dog declared tree. Yeah. So that's one that you and I have had ex just very long conversations on and I wanna see what our listeners and our call-ins have to say about that first.

We'll leave that one 'cause whatever they don't cover, you and I are gonna come back and cover. Oh, we're gonna cover that one. Good. We'll keep going on with that one. Okay. Next one, John Lively. First strike will be 50, everything else, 25, no matter the time in which the dog strikes. So we can already see that there is a big emphasis on strike.

And we will dive big into that. Whenever me and you get to our debating Chad [00:13:00] Bray no leash lock on 60 and 90 minute cast or make it where no leash lock, but if another dog is tree handler can hold until the next turn loose. Let's see here. Next dogs returning to tree will be minus a hundred first offense scratched on the second offense.

Okay, so we've got quite a bit of these rules. It seems like a lot of 'em right now are wanting to deal with the strike with the cast. Stand together. Yeah, there's a few more proposals in here for strike. Tony Smith he proposed change the leash lock rule to allow a maximum of 10 minutes of being leash locked.

Then the dog must be recut. I don't mind that one. I'm just gonna interject. I don't mind that at all. I think that's not a terrible idea. We'll discuss that in a little bit. Yeah and guys, just to interject here real quick, the reason I brought Basham onto this podcast is 'cause he and I [00:14:00] are, we're best buddies.

We have been for years, but we are really good at debating with each other. And I wouldn't, you might not think we're good at debating, but he and I have debates every day when we talk on the phone and I can see one side of the story and he can see another side of the story. We can both play devil's advocate, probably him better than me most days.

But at the end of it, we laugh and, we're cool things, but things we don't always see eye to eye on. Some of these things and these rules are called things. It gets a little heated sometimes It does, but it's 'cause we're both passionate about it. We both wanna win. And, these rules affect how we do it.

You've got one way of playing the game. I've got another way of playing the game. Yep. So that's why I got Basham on here with us today, guys. Just a little background information on that. Another one, and I think this is one of those ones you were talking about. A hundred percent. I think it's gonna pass.

And that's three minute tree rule. I don't see any reason I think everybody's pretty much in favor of that one. Chris Fryberg also proposed tree points a hundred twenty five seventy five, fifty twenty five 30 seconds after the [00:15:00] first dog is called Tree. The second and third will close all dogs called Treat after one minute.

We'll Recer receive 25, 2, 2. So yeah, three minute tree, that's basically what that one is. I don't see any other one. I think there's three or four that deal with 1 25 bumping that tree up. And then there's another one from Tracy Thompson for All Dogs Handled. So I would say there's so many that are dual.

Here's another one by Chad Barry, three Minute Tree. Okay. So we've got the general consensus of what we're wanting to do here. We wanting to shorten the tree time. We're wanting to adjust the strike in some way, shape or form. We're gonna keep the cast together. And then we've got one more. There's actually two more change stationary rule reduced from six to five minutes, which I'm kinda like everybody else.

Not to get into a debate right now, but I think whatever [00:16:00] your tree time is what your stationary needs to be. I know that when we talk about moving it to three minutes, whew, that's a short stationary, three minutes stationary. But I'm a firm believer. I think that it should be whatever your tree time is.

And then the last one, tree shine. Time reduced from eight to six. That's actually another hot topic. I was at the Chee Classic this weekend, and that is that, there's a lot of guys that aren't too happy with that one. All right guys, so there is the general consensus of, and just a quick rundown breakdown of what we've got going on with these rules.

We're going to hop in here to the calls now. Our first call here is gonna be to Mr. Dan Hubbard out of New York. We're gonna try to get him on the line. He said he's got some rules he wants to talk about. So oof. Let's see if he answers the phone. The Hounds Man XP podcast is fueled by Joy Dog. Food joy.

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Guys, this is the part of the podcast where I get to inform you that this did not work 100% as planned. But if you listen carefully, you can bear with us. The guys that phoned in on this process here, we, we just didn't get it dialed in [00:18:00] quite right. I thought I had everything figured out where it needed to be, but apparently I didn't.

It's all part of the learning process. Just a fair warning. Appreciate them joining us here on the Deep and Lonely Podcast for this, I just wanted to give you guys that heads up that, we're working through this. We're gonna figure it out. We're gonna get this where you guys can call in and it sounds just right, but it's all part of the process here.

So just bear with us here and hope you enjoy. Dun. Oh, inward ringing. We're live. Oh, look out. First time. Hello? Hey, Dan. Hey Dan. Can you hear me? Yes. Oh, he is got me now. All right. How's it going, buddy? Good. You not too bad. You are live on Deep and Lonely podcast. You ready for this? Oh yeah. Alright buddy.

Let me know what rule you think is a hotter topic right now as far as these P K C rule changes. What do you want to talk about?[00:19:00] I would honestly say like most common sense one is the garby rule. Okay. I can tell you exactly why. If you look at the early nineties and the early two thousands, the garment was even thought of, look how many people showed up to hunts.

You had 75 to 80 guys who show up for a three hour hunt when they ran three hour hunts. Since the garment, it's, it was hard for a lot of these guys to go out and buy a device to track their dogs. Big money guys took over, right far. And it just made the hunts easier for a lot of people because you know when your dog is Jewish, you know where your dog is at, and just, it spoiled a lot of people and calling your dog for what your dog's doing.

Okay, so let me play devil's advocate. What about some of these guys who are spending 10, 15, 20, $80,000 on a dog [00:20:00] and they want to know where that dog is at, if he's anywhere near a road, if there's any chance of that dog getting in trouble and they don't have their garment 'cause it's in the truck. Okay, that's a good point.

Now, they shouldn't leave him in the truck. My whole thing is throughout the hunt, ask the judge, can I look at my garment, see where my dog's at? That's it. He's near a road. If he's near, other than that, keep it in your pocket. Keep it your, in your pouch. Keep the vibrations off it.

Keep it. Don't even touch it. Just call your dog for what your dog is doing. They shouldn't be in your hands or your eyes on the screen, 20, for an hour while you're trying to figure out what's going on. That's just my opinion. Okay. Now, Dan, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're from New York, correct?

Yes. Okay, so you're from New York. What are the hunting conditions like up there? Just get, paint me a picture. Do you guys have busy roads going up there? Are you guys being able to cut and patch timbers? Big timber? What? What's your hunting style? A little bit of both. It's a lot of big timber usually.[00:21:00]

Lot of, a lot of corn fields. We got some corn fields up here. It, the roads. Yeah they can be a problem, if that's what you're asking. I get what you're saying a hundred percent right there. There's a way around that, just my opinion. Yep. I do. Basham what's your thoughts on this one?

My thoughts are a little different. This is just going back to what he originally said about how back in the day there used to be 30, 40, 50 people show up to a hunt. I don't think the garments, in my opinion, I don't think the Garmin's affected the show up numbers to the hunts. I think that has to do from, there's a lot less hunters now.

I think that has to do with kids not getting involved. They're playing more on their video games and their cell phones than they are being out in the woods. I think it has to do more with one income in a house isn't as predominant as it used to be. Now it's hard, you've gotta have two incomes.

So time spent at home and time spent with family is a lot less than what it used to be. And so a lot of times for extracurricular activities like [00:22:00] coon hunting, and then not only that, but your big farmers are going away. So finding land to hunt on is getting harder and harder. I think it's just the new age and the way life is now.

That has really affected the numbers. I don't think it has anything to do with Garmins. Now, my take on the Garmins is, do I think that Garmins are used in a negative manner in a hunt? We all know it is. I've hunted enough of these. So have you, Bryce? It's like in P K C when the six minute rule gets put onto you, it, you can't hear your dog.

What are you doing? You are walking, you're walking towards the dog, you're looking down at your Garmin and you're walking and I'm old enough. I ain't gonna say how old I am. I'm 29. We got the champ over here. And she'll, she says I've been 29 for quite a few years. But that's another story. But I remember back in the day when we didn't have Garmin and man, how many times we would walk to a house dog because somebody thought that was their dog in their tree.

So that's exactly my point. I think, [00:23:00] and I see what you're saying, bud, about I don't get this, I don't say, I said I hold back to this off. I'm 42. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm 43. So it goes back when I know the garments weren't a thing and I saw the guy show up to his house and then they started dwindling away and their excuse was the garments.

That's just what I was told. I know they may just a few handful besides him, but it got me thinking like, you know what, it does make sense why these guys would walk away. Yeah. But also you have to think about this bud that is, Typically when, and I'm not saying this to be negative, Nancy, but typically when people lose and they can't compete, they're gonna find something to blame it on.

And it ain't gonna be, oh, I can't go out there. It's the same thing right now. How many people do you know of wanna blame something else besides the fact they don't want to get out there 4, 5, 6, 7 nights a week and train on their dog, whether it's rain, sleet, or snow? Oh, it's too hot. Oh, it's too cold.

We've, I do it too. I've [00:24:00] got excuses. Oh, I couldn't go hunting last night because this, that, or the other. Now I'm not saying that's completely the case, but I'm saying Garmin hasn't, the Garmin hasn't affected the game so much that it would be a reason for somebody to quit.

I guess it's all, who's told, man, we all know that guy who looks at that car going and screams, judge, you hear my dog? You hear my dog, and you can't hear his dog. He knows his dog tree. That's the guys, yep. Who really ruin it for the other guys who are just trying to do it. And it's becoming more common.

It is and nice to do that. It is. And I had that happen last week. We had I was judging a $2,500 Pro classic and we had two dogs treat in line with each other. And one was just, they were directly in line with each other and one was just deeper and they were both calling the same dog treat.

They were here, the one that was in front, but the Garmin was showing both of them tree. And they were looking at it like it's tree. I'm like I can't go off the Garmin. I hear one dog. So I do understand that side of the things. I think my personal opinion on it is that we [00:25:00] do need to keep the Garmin though.

That's just my Bryce Matthew's opinion. Just due to the fact of how much money is being thrown around and these hunts. How much money's being thrown around on these dogs. I think personally it's a safety issue more than anything. So that's my thought on it. If they were used for a safety issue, I agree.

But as of now, we know guys are modifying T five cows. We're telling broke dogs, get 'em off trees. Guys are looking at these garments knowing where their dog, what direction they're gonna call their dog. If you just leave, keep the gun designing, keep 'em in your pocket. It shouldn't be in your hands unless you really need, unless you're worried, unless you gotta look and just Hey, I just wanna see to make sure my dog's safe.

Put the back when they're dog. Should be able to call your dog from what they're doing. Makes a lot of craziness And it would bring people back. Yeah. And it would stop a lot of, and it would stop a lot of the fighting ment because now look about how many fights as a judge. If you're judge the cash, you gotta a remember going look at judge, my.

That in your face, do it. The dog either treat or it's not.[00:26:00] That's just my opinion, like I said. Yeah. But we, and that's why we're on here, this is because we've all got opinions and we just want to give the hunters a voice and a platform to be heard on. So we're glad that you called, we're glad that you voiced your opinion, and we appreciate you taking time to sit down with us here on Hounds and XP and the Deep and Lonely podcast, and go through this with us, Stan.

We sure appreciate it, buddy. I'm just saying. Yeah, you guys do a great job. I love how you guys keep up with everything going on. I love your podcast, so Yeah, man. We're glad to have you on. We appreciate it. And hopefully all this got recorded. We haven't done this before, so we might have to do a round two.

I don't know. We'll play by here. That's what we do. We fly by the seat of our pants here, but All right, buddy. I appreciate it. You stay safe out there. All right? Absolutely. You guys do the same. Thank you. All right, thanks Dan. Bye. See ya. All right. First caller in the books. The first one in the books.

I hope it recorded. I hope so too. We're gonna find out. Hey, this you're the tech savvy guy here. I don't know. I'm just here for my looks, right? Oh, goodness gracious. Give me a break. Even the champs over there sighing and [00:27:00] shaking her head. Oh gosh. Guys bash him here. He broke out his daughter.

She's coming hunting us tonight. She is the champ. A few years ago she broke out a dog, went over to Missouri, won the Missouri State Youth Championship, and then she quit hunting on us. No, that wasn't the one. She went up to the E K C Youth hunt, that big youth hunt they had up there at Bella's silo.

And she was top female handler and second place overall. And then she quit. Oh, I was one hunt behind. Yes you are. But she's coming back out of retirement tonight. Yeah. At the big old age of How old are you, Jocelyn, now? 12. She's 12. She's coming outta retirement. Newsflash, I think she came outta retirement.

'cause she thought you had your side by side. F y I. Oh, I hate to tell her we don't have it tonight. All right, we've got another caller here that wants us to give him a call. We're gonna call Mr. Let's see here if I can get my thing to work. Oh [00:28:00] gosh, Mr. Wi Robbins, he told me to give him a call. He's got something he wants to talk about.

And if I can get my, there it goes. Maybe hold tight. Done. Cue the elevator music. Here we go. We are calling Mr. Wi Robbins.

And we're ringing and we have action.

Hello? Hey buddy, this is Bryce with the Deep and Only Podcast. How you doing? Good, how are you? Oh, not too bad, man. You are live and on air with Stephen Bash and I, so we're talking rule changes, rule proposals, all that kind of stuff. Let's hear your thought on the rules. You you feel strongly about. To be honest I could care less about any of 'em besides the one that Nikki held proposed about the garments.

Oh. And stand together in the cast in [00:29:00] the program. I agree with that too. Which I know pro sport's been doing for a while. But the Garmin one's probably the biggest one that sticks out to me. And I know a lot of guys are gonna be against it for the safety of their dogs and stuff, but I know everybody runs into it.

Steven, he's at a hunt every weekend. He knows what I'm talking about. You got dogs scattered out and one blows out a ball game and he's 1.4 tree. And a guy looking at his Darin trying to get the judge to hear his dog tree and nobody can hear it, it causes a lot of arguments, puts a lot of honest judges in bad situations in my opinion.

'cause you might be walking to score a dog and you got a handler trying to stop the judge 3, 4, 5 times going to score this dog. Toward the end of a hunt. And I just think it would take a lot of that controversy out and take a lot of the stress off the judges, in my opinion. Bash what's your thoughts?

We we just, we literally just talked about this with our last call and Dan Hubbard, that was his one rule that he wanted to talk about, was the same exact one with the Garmin. [00:30:00] So let's hear it. Basham. Man, Bryce, this is two people back to back with the same opinion. I was just gonna say maybe we were wrong about what was hot and what wasn't.

Yeah, I thought that the hot topic was gonna be the strike. And here we are, right off the cuff, people wanting to talk about garments. I know it. No, I'm with Whit a lot on that. On the way he presented it. I think when you talk about rule proposals, a lot of it is also how you present it. He is correct.

You go to a hunt and it's every single cast you've got somebody, Hey, you hear me? You hear me? You hear me look right here. You hear me? You hear me? So I see where he is coming from. Do I think that it's going to pass? No, I do not. I think that there's too many people that I wouldn't say rely on it use it to their advantage.

In my opinion, if you're not using it to your advantage, you're at a disadvantage just because everybody else is. I see and hear what he's saying and I agree with him to a certain extent. I just don't think, in my personal opinion, Steven Bland's personal opinion, I don't [00:31:00] think that's one that's gonna get passed.

Alright. So like I said, all right, so like I said, we've got two, two callers back to back talking about the garments. We've talked about how, now we had, my, my thought was on this, and I'll just go ahead and repeat it to you since, we talked to Dan. My thought was like the money that's being thrown around on this in the hunts and the money that's being spent on dogs, I see the Garmin more is a safety issue more than anything.

And I completely understand that, but from my point of view, and I understand Nicky's point of view, and Steven's point of view, I know Steven's hunt every single night, and when you getting a dog ready for a hunt, you're out there hunting that dog. And I learned the old way, and I know Nikki learned the old way.

He's been hunting for years. I didn't have a arm until I was 16 years old on a quick track. And so I had to sit out there and listen to what that dog was doing, and if that dog's getting out on roads or going to houses, that's something you broke him from, you know what I mean? And just the money, like you, you're talking about the money for the [00:32:00] entries and stuff the money for the dogs.

I, I completely understand that too. But in another sense, if you're paying a $6,500 entry, you don't want that guy. Carrying his dog 1.4 off a d and putting an honest judge or a judge in a 6,500 entry period in that position. I just don't feel that way. But I understand the safety sense and I understand that's always gonna be what it's brought back to in the end.

I get it. I see what you're saying there. I think when it boils down to it, you're gonna look at the people spending the money on these dogs and the people spending the money, they're gonna have the last say on these, I don't have the money to pay a 6,500 entry. I'm just no four boy here, 30 minutes south of I just have to hunt what I got.

But I feel like if you're out there coming out every night and you have your dog prepared the way it should be, that it's not gonna be out running the road. That's just the way I feel about it. No and I think most hunters are gonna feel the exact same way you do, [00:33:00] but then the caveat to that is, These judges need to be stronger.

Yeah. And I, they need to be stronger. You need to have a judge that's gonna say, no, I don't hear you. No, I don't hear you. And not be able to be persuaded that he, and that's where it all boils down to. Yeah, I agree. 150%. And, and it's hard. And that's just like the bad one thing. That, that goes all the way back to the judge.

And I understand you can't physically say whether that dog's running a COE or not. We can't smell what they're smelling, but when you turn the dog loose and it's barking from the time you cut it loose until you get it off a tree with a cone, common sense is common sense that dog didn't run a cone from your feet 0.9 and treat it, in a corn field. A cone's not running nine, 10 foot miles a big majority of the time. But you can't prove it. And just like you can't prove, guys are trained dogs off guards either. It's just one of those things that's gonna be there until the end. But I don't know maybe they'll get the [00:34:00] strike deal passed if that's something they think's gonna work.

I don't know. I just think if you pack a good enough dog that hustles and doesn't have any downtime that he'll make up on his end for the strike deal. That's just the way I feel about it and I see where you're coming from there. I think me and Bryce are gonna save the whole strike thing for the last, because that's one of the things that me and him have a hot debate on.

I think we're gonna wait to discuss that one towards the end of this podcast. I'm glad y'all called me. I know you probably couldn't get old Big Nikki on here, but hopefully I had the same ideas about as he did. I couldn't get ahold of him to talk to him about it, but that's just how I felt on the subject.

And I don't think it'll get passed either, because I understand the big majority's gonna. Gonna feel that it's unsafe in the end. There's a lot more vehicles going down the roads now, a lot less hunting. I understand. But that's just how I feel about it, yeah. Buddy it, and $20,000 in a dog either.

So I can feel a little bit different than that. I understand. I'm the same way. I've never spent that kind of money in a [00:35:00] dog, and I don't plan on it any time. So I understand where them feelings can be different. But this is why we wanted to call people and get 'em on here, give you guys a chance to voice your opinion.

And, if it wasn't for this platform, people wouldn't hear my opinion very much either. I'm, I like to go out there and run the hunts. I like to think that I can compete and the dogs that I'm packing can compete, but I don't have the lifetime earnings to back it up. So who's to say that my opinion really matters when it comes to these rule proposals?

You know what I mean? Yeah. I love appreciate y'all calling me though. I really do. Yeah, buddy. Absolutely. Like I said, I hope this thing recorded. We're, haven't done this before. I hope this all got taken down. We're gonna find out one way or the other. If it didn't maybe just throw out person heard it.

I hope. Yeah, buddy. Yeah. So I feel but I feel like it just pushed the judges in a really hard position. I agree. The judges aren't getting paid enough period. You can't, what are they paying them? A hundred, $200 to judge a final cash? Three. I know I judged a $2,500 Pro classic the night, and it paid $300 a night to judge.

$300 for you to walk. How far did you walk? Six, [00:36:00] seven miles probably. You know how dogs are, ma'am. Oh, I understand. We got lucky this year and we, they didn't hunt late round, they split both nights, but last year. Between four cast, I walked 32 miles at the same hunt. And even like P K C, you have the leash lock, so you're not walking hardly as much.

But in pro sport, the cast has to stay together and there is no leash lock. So that just makes even more stress and more walking. You're putting on the judge and on top of all the stress of a guy trying to get your attention while you're going to score a dog to treat his dog in. Yep. I just don't think that they're doing the judge's right.

And that's just my opinion, yeah. I like money. I like winning when I go, I pay my own entries and work hard for the money I do have and prepare, but I just don take my a hundred dollars outta my win ins to give to that judge. That's $400 out of a final four that you could give to those judges.

And that's just the way I feel about it because they put up [00:37:00] with a lot. And it's hard to find good judges. It is. Judges are hard to find. All right, we, buddy, we appreciate you chatting with us tonight. Thank you so much for joining us and if we've got anything else like this, again I'd to hear your opinion on it.

'cause I like the way you think on some of these things. I appreciate y'all having me on there. Good talking to you. Bryce. I never met you and I don't know you, but it's good talking to you. I know Steven A. Little bit but it's good talking with y'all and I'm glad y'all called. Yeah, buddy.

Absolutely. Thanks for calling Bud. Two down. Number two in the books. How many more we got? We've got one more for sure that wants to talk. And I am pretty sure he's gonna bring up this strike where we've been talking about. So this might be a good segue. It might be The Hessman XP Podcast Network is powered by Cajun Lights.

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They got a lot of stuff to offer over at Cajun Lights. We got Mr. Chris bowling messaged in. Oh, Chris, and said he wants to have a little chit chat. Little knockout. So we're gonna call, we're just gonna move right into it here. We're gonna call Chris Bowling. Man, I can't say enough. I'm nervous. I hope this stuff is recording.

We did a little test and it worked, but I don't like doing stuff new man. I'm telling you. It don't bother me. I mean until it don't record. Ah, we'll just do it all over again. It's all natural anyways, right? That's right. Okay, here we go. Chris Bowen in 3, 2, 2, 1.

That was a terrible sound effect. That was horrible. You need a fi your sound effect guy. Hello? Oh, he's on. We got him. We got Chris Bowling Live on the Hansman XP Deep and only podcast. How you doing Chris? This is Bryce. [00:40:00] Hey Bryce. I'm doing good buddy. How about you? Hey man, I can't complain. Sitting here with Bash and discussing some rule changes.

Do that. What do you got on your mind? What do you want to bring up and talk about? I butted, I only rule. I see man, the, the biggest change we could make is the, here we go. Terrible. I know I got a solid dog. Hell my win. Nothing else but it's bullshit. Anyway. You look at whether you got a parker or a silent dog what do you want to see done differently?

I like Watson's proposal there, but the drawback I've seen from men is everybody says, that's gonna be so complicated, and my opinion, I think we should all just strike for 25 and then into the cast every treats the most cones in the winter, if you could take enough minus, and the strike's still relative because you can take Strike minus coming back into the cast or so you're saying.

You're saying, basically everybody strikes for a quarter and then you're [00:41:00] only scoring three points from there on out. Yeah. You maybe, you a down, you got your 25 strike, you got your hundred plus, for three. But now here's the issue with that, that everybody tells you, not mention this, that, oh man, they'd be so many ties.

There'd be so many ties. We couldn't ever do that. Here's the thing, boss, many of you and bash s up here in a cast tonight, right? We cut our dog looses. If we all treat one coon in, in 60 minutes, how do you think deserves to win? The dog would treat the coon the quickest, or the dog can bark the, don't you agree that the dog that does it the fastest should be the winner?

I definitely see it that way. And that is gonna go right into we won't get too much into me and Bryce, but that goes right into me and Bryce's debate a little bit. It does a little bit, and I agree because. It wasn't P K C, but it was the a k c ladies world hunt. We, the two dogs tree, the same amount of coons, they both treat two coons in the allotted amount of time, but [00:42:00] the dog that actually treated the two first ended up getting, he ended up losing because the strike reopened on the second dog.

He treated his second coon 15 minutes before the other dog did, and the other dog won because the strike reopened. Yeah. And I can give you one better than his man. I've hunt in a cast one night. Four single coons took, no, this guy here, belt guy one my buddies, he beats me with three single coons nos.

How can that even be? You know what I'm saying? How can you treat fours, take no ice and adopt, treat three cans and beat. It, that's just what I'm saying. We gotta, we got a messed up set of rules. But to this 25, strike that I'm saying, everybody's before that you problem with a tiebreaker.

It's simple. Instead of moving everybody's strike up when you get to the tree, when we furnish our cars, they could have they can have a little column right there at the tree. 1, 2, 3, 4, by each dollar. And as you go through the trees, first tree you go to, that's got a cone in it, you circle that [00:43:00] once.

Second tree, you go through's got you circle that too. You get to the end of the night and we all operate the same amount of tunes. One holds a high one. The first dog tree holds a tiebreaker over 2, 3, 4, and two is if one's not in the equation, so he doesn't, two holds a tiebreaker over three. Three holds it over four.

You see what I'm saying? I'm gonna tell you this, Chris, I was at the ER classic this weekend, and you are not the first one I heard from that. We sat around the Coon Club for quite a while and there was a lot of big name guys in the coon hunting world. That was exactly echoing exactly what you just said.

Oh yeah. I been trying I'm, I commented on a couple times there, man, just trying to change. Hey, some people you're can change their mind. One guy made the comment, he said, oh, we couldn't do that. If you do that you're putting the Honest Strike dog at a disadvantage. I was like, man, what the hell is going on right now?

Right now? The honest Strike dog is strike you for 25 or 50 and almost every cast, they're at a disadvantage. What we're doing now on a [00:44:00] playing field if we out five, alright, there's his opinion on it bashing you. That's a good segue. You've heard it. I've got I have an opinion as well.

I'm not saying that I totally disagree with it, Chris. I do have a slight difference on it. But it's not a hundred percent different. On this air. What do you think? Just keep the status quo or do you think something makes a change? No, my, my real quick opinion here while we got you on the phone and then we're gonna, we're gonna go off air.

We'll still keep recording, but we're bash not gonna talk back and forth here on this. We're gonna debate this one for a minute, but my quick opinion while I got you on the phone here is that you should not marry the strike in the tree points if you're gonna do it the way that the rule is proposed.

I believe that if a dog say the dog leaves the tree, he should take minus both ways. I. Here. Here's my one thing on that right now, Bryce, real quick, and I'm not trying to debate you on this until we get hot and heavy into it, but right now, as the rules even state, you strike for a hundred tree for a hundred, your dog [00:45:00] leaves.

Are you taking strike minus two? No, but they're not married together and this rule's gonna marry him. They are, they're still married together. Because when you get that, when you get to that tree, when you get to that tree, you're gonna want your plus your strike or your mouse stick with your stripes.

It's buried together. Right Now when you tree a coon right now, do you want your strike plus? I do. Okay. So they're married together as we speak. I just don't feel like it's married that way, but there it's married in an order where dogs are, struck for a hundred seventy five fifty.

It's not, I, it's just a different marriage for me. I don't know, I just. I have to think about it. Third marriage or fourth? Zero for me. More thing, man. We can't, plus we can't plus a dogs up on the tree unless we look up and see a, but we're plussing dogs up in almost every cast. They're barking at something.

We have no idea what they're barking at. We think it might be a sometimes, but who knows. Chris, me and your thoughts on this are almost identical. And when you listen to this podcast, after we get off air with you and me and Bryce start [00:46:00] debating you will hear my thoughts and me and eye to eye, bud.

Bless you. Smart. My bud. Like I said, I'm not, I don't see, I'm not a hundred percent the opposite way, but I do think there's some slight differences. I think there needs to be strike and treat. Strike points or strike points and tree points for tree points is just how I feel about it, but, Yeah. All right buddy.

I appreciate you calling here. Hey, I appreciate you guys calling, man. I'm glad to put my opinion out there. Yes sir. Hopefully we got a recorded here. We haven't done this. I've probably said that four times now on this podcast, but it got me nervous wreck if this thing did record Bryce, you're gonna sound like a broken record bud.

If it did record, I can go through and edit it out. That's the power software. Darn it. Edit it out. Alright Chris, I hope at anytime during this thing know and edit it out too, if you don't mind. Alright buddy. We appreciate you calling. Alright thank you. See ya,

boom. And we are gonna segue right into the debate. Howman XP [00:47:00] podcast Network is sponsored by OnX. The most comprehensive mapping system in the world is available by going to OnX and downloading their app. Several subscription offers there. Highly recommend you use an onyx, and here's a true story for you.

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When you join us on Patreon, you will get a discount code for a deeper discount on OnX maps. Know where you stand with Onyx. All right, so how you wanna do this? You want to read a proposal or you just want to go into the ones we already know? Read the proposal for the strike. Let's just knock that out.

All right you sure? You don't wanna save that one for last? 'cause I feel like the strike. Okay. We can save it for last. It is gonna be the fine. We can do it your way. Whatever. No, I'm just asking. I forgot. It's your podcast. It's mine. Got it. Do whatever you want to do. Hey, you're a hype man. I take control of this.

All right, let's go. Hold on one second. I got a dog barking. All right, we're back. Alright Let's go with this one. Non-hunting judges are [00:49:00] prohibited from carrying and looking through heat seeking units such as thermals. Oh I got an opinion on this one. Shoot. All right, here it goes. I disagree. I think a non-hunting judge should be able to carry a thermal, and I'll tell you why.

I'm getting excited over here. Okay. I'll tell you why. Because how many hunts have you been in during a slight drizzle. A rain where somebody's judge, I got my coon. He's right here. And you look up there and in your heart, you know that an kon eye, it's a water droplet, a spider eye, somebody trying to, play the game.

Now I get it. Doesn't happen all the time. The other part of this is I like to think that if I'm out, I'm scoring this tree, I'm gonna use a thermal on every tree. I and I do this whenever I judge. I use a thermal on everybody's tree. If I'm a non-hunting judge, I wanna see if they're trying to pull some shenanigans or if I see that coon now, and I do full disclaimer, [00:50:00] I understand the thermal doesn't pick up every coon that's in the tree.

I understand that. But 90% of the time you can see what you're looking at. You know if that coon is there. If they're trying to play some games with the money that is on the line. And I believe if you want to hire good judges and you want to have your judges judge as fairly and as accurately as they can, we have a tool in the tool belt.

You got your Garmin in your hand, you got your light on your head, you got your collar on your dog. They're all part of the tools. The thermal is just the newest piece of equipment in the toolbox. Are you gonna go back to swinging a hammer and nails every time you frame a house? Or are you going to use the electric air gun?

They got the battery powered air guns now. That's how I feel about it. The tool is there. Let's use them. Go ahead. I disagree strongly so you're wrong. Okay. I'm glad you think so in your small minded opinion. But anyways, [00:51:00] and it starts my problem is gonna be keeping this clean 'cause, that's hard for me, so I'm gonna try my best.

I totally disagree. You talk about garments being a tool in our toolbox. Are the judges using that as a tool in their toolbox? I do. I use my Garmin, I'm checking whenever somebody strikes and, or trees their dog. And if I have to walk, I'm using that Garmin as a pinpoint. Okay. I hear this dog in this location.

I did this in the last hunt that I just judged the $2,500 when those dogs got split tree, I pinpointed those dogs and I showed each competitor on my Garmin where I had their dog marked. They're like, okay, that's fine. That way I know because you've been in situations where you'll walk to the left of a ridge or you'll walk to the right of a ridge and the sound bounces around.

You've been in those, we all have been in those situations. The Garmin keeps you accurate to a certain extent. It's your extent, it's your modern day compass. To a certain extent it's a compass, but you still don't have the dog on your Garmin. [00:52:00] So I will go a little bit more in detail with the actual rule proposal in the thermal, I completely agree with the judges n not being able to look through it.

And for this reason, it's a lot more, it's a lot easier to try to convince somebody that they see something when they're looking through a thermal and there's heat up there. And I'll give you an example. If I look through my thermal right, and I look up there and I see heat, and then there's a little bitty window and it's gray.

Just the slightest bit of gray. I can't really tell make out what it is, but it looks like fur, right? Is it a possum? Is it a cone? What is it? My problem with the thermal is it gives you more of a chance to just say, Hey, I see something. Now I'm gonna caveat right back to the Garmin rule. And that [00:53:00] is, I think the number one overall way to beat all of this is to have strong judges.

I think if you have strong judges, it gets, it does away with half of the problems that we have. So I can see it your way. But but based on where we're at today, I would say that the thermals don't need to be used by the judges because you can't score it by a thermal. You can't, I if you're gonna, if you're gonna judge it, if you personally, a non-hunting judge are, is going to judge it properly.

I feel like my personal opinion is that don't give yourself the opportunity to try to be persuaded. You see what you don't see what we're all humans. We all make mistakes. Just try to do the best of your ability and call it morally what you think it is. I understand that. And so I'm gonna go two ways on this one.

I'm gonna tell you just one thing that how I feel about this, and then we're gonna, this will lead right into [00:54:00] the next rule change I wanna talk about. Okay. Is that, so number one, you need strong judges. A strong judge should have the willpower. To not be persuaded you. I agree with you. So this last weekend I found the coon in the thermal.

I could see it in the thermal, it wouldn't look, I sat there looking for that coon eye for three and a half, three minutes and 45 seconds. Once that coon looked, I plused his coon. We both knew it was there. Heck, the other competitors in the cows knew it was there, but it wouldn't look. And I understand you.

We couldn't see fur. You can, we were looking for a kuna. So that's where I feel about that is if you're gonna go on strong judges, you gotta be strong no matter the circumstance. I agree with you. My other thing on this one is, and this is gonna go into our next rule proposal, if you wanna bring the rule up.

It's gonna go talking about the shine time. So if we the next rule proposal I believe talks about bringing the shine time from eight minutes to six minutes. Yes, that is correct. So if we are going to bring the shine time [00:55:00] down, I believe you also need that tool. I. To be able to judge faster. The pace of the sport is moving.

And here's the other part of that is that a judge's attention, no matter how it should be, is not always 100% focused on that tree when you're scoring it. I agree. Because you can be scoring a tree, have the shine time running, and then you've got two other handlers like, judge, judge, come over here. My dog's drink.

Can you hear my dog? And you're trying to listen for their dog. You're trying to be where the handler who you're scoring his tree is because. If you're out in the cornfield looking at a tree, there's 20 seconds left and he's in the woods and he finds a coon, you've gotta get outta that cornfield into that woods.

I don't think a thermal helps you out there. And jumping to that exact rule proposal, I don't agree with it. I think eight minutes, especially, you're talking, and I ain't even talking about, up north where you're on field edges and stuff like that. I'm talking about more so like in the mountains, West Virginia, [00:56:00] Kentucky, Tennessee in the big woods where there is no way to get on the outside and the foliage is completely full.

It, how many times have you found a coon in the last minute of an eight minute shine time? A bunch. A bunch. So that's one real proposal that me personally as being a competition hunter small time, even if I am I would like to see that one not pass just because I think, in certain circumstances you need the full eight minutes.

I, I agree. I do wish it's not a rule proposal and I don't even know how to combat it with a good solution, but I do wish there was a way that the judge could focus solely on the tree at hand. Rather than trying to get pulled away. 'cause gosh, that gets sticky. I think that just comes with just being a strong judge.

And no offense to you at all? No. You're good. I think I know when I'm judging when I'm at that tree, I'm at that tree. If I hear 'em, that's good and all right. But I'm not going to the opposite side of the tree just to try to hear somebody [00:57:00] else's dog. I understand that this man is trying to score his tree.

If I just so happened, I'm standing out in a cornfield and he comes up to me and says, Hey judge, you hear me right there? Oh yes, I got you. Hey tree me and then I'll tree you in. But other than that, my main focus is on that tree. For the most part. I think that just comes. And I think we're gonna sound like a broken record here.

I, I think a lot of these problems just go away with strong judging. And it's hard because some of your best guy, the guys that know the rule are the best, are the handlers. They're the ones they're hunting, they're the ones hunting. You get no fame, no glory, no recognition. And you get all of the criticism when you're a judge, if you make a bad call, you are the talk of the town.

Yep. For a long time. Here's the way I look at it. If you make a good call, you might be lucky to get a thank you. At the end of the night. You just, and it's kinda like I said a few minutes ago, when you're judging, you just have to do what you think is right to the best of your ability. I'd rather go with a guy that made a [00:58:00] honest mistake.

Hey he messed up. He's a human. We have umpires calling balls, strikes and strike balls and pass interference. And it's just an element of any competition sport that we're a part of. And so I think that. If you go out there as a strong judge and you just try to do the best of your ability and be honest and stand by your values and try to stand by the rules.

I think you haven't, if people want to talk, let 'em talk. I agree. So we've covered strive. We haven't quite covered Strike yet? Not yet. We're gonna save that one for the last. So we've covered tree time, we've covered thermals. Let's, we've talked about Garmin's. Three minute tree. Three minute tree.

Yeah, let's go to that one. I'm in. Sign me up. I think that's case close. That's what all of 'em went to. But I've got a proposal. Oh. Look out. Hot tape. My proposal. Three minute tree. But keep the P K c countdown time. Oh, a hundred percent. I want a three minute tree. After 30 seconds, you lose 75.

Oh yeah. After a minute you [00:59:00] lose 50. Definitely. I do not like, and I'm gonna say it right here on the P K C or not the P K C, the Hounds Man XP podcast. Deep and lonely. I do not like the Ukcs rule. Of two minutes. Two minutes. A dog can still get 75 strike points because strike, we're striking enough start tree points.

You've got me all jacked up on striking tree. After two minutes, a dog can still get 75 tree points. And that has cost me several casts. And I'm just, I feel very strongly about that one. I'm not a, I'm not into covering dogs. I don't like backpackers. I understand one outta the truck. I understand running the same track, but when a dog breaks their neck and they've got two minutes to cover me, a dog moving 10 mile an hour through the woods can cover a lot of ground in two minutes.

And they're gonna beat you. Yep. So yeah, that's my caveat. That's my rule change on that one. I like the three minute tree. Let's roll with it. Let's get that passed. I think that'll pass. Yep. I think it will too. The sport's moving a fast enough pace. I think that'll go ahead and pass. So I got another controversial one for you.

Oh boy. The cast will remain together at [01:00:00] all times. Keep it. You don't think they should? No, I'm saying they should like, yes, I like the rule. Pass it. Yep. Yep. I think for me personally, man, this is a hot topic. I understand the old timers point of view of and the people down south talking about it being hot.

But just this once again is everybody's got their own personal opinion. And this is my personal opinion. I can't remember the last time that I've had a handler go to their dog and their dog shut up. I can't remember it. So basically what I'm trying to get at with that is, to me, that throws out every argument that anybody has that oh, down the south it's so hot that if you leave your dog tree for a certain amount of time, that it's gonna overheat.

The dogs' gonna bark whether you're there or not. I get where they're coming from. The old timers talking about having to walk to all the trees. I get it. I just think, and here we go again, talking about the judges. I think that keeping the cast together at [01:01:00] all times alleviates a lot problems and a lot of pressure on the judge.

And I can concur with that. I do not like sending a handler by themselves to a tree to their dog. If I've got an extra person on the cast, I'll send them when I'm a judge, just to keep 'em honest. Even when it comes, we're not even talking about someone cheating. You gotta a dog. You're standing here and you gotta walk a mile to one dog tree and you got another dog, 900.7, whatever have you.

The opposite direction, right? So by the time you get that one at a mile, After you get him scored, you're coming back. Let's say for that one instance that handler did get that dog to be quiet. Now what are you doing? You gotta find them, you're finding them. And that can be a pain. I've had guys shut their dogs up intentionally just trying to burn shine, or trying to burn up hunt time.

And like I said, there's many tricks to the trade, but I'm just saying that [01:02:00] I think that you alleviate a lot of potential problems and I just think that there's a lot of less chaos that can happen when everybody stays together. I do too. And one other thing I'm gonna throw in here that I don't know that people talk about or think about much, but I saw it happen one time, which is the only reason I think about it, is we did have an older gentleman on a cast one night, and it was summer, and he overheated and went down.

Like he was not in a good spot. He was. Very dehydrated, disoriented, didn't know where he was. Like we had to get him outta the woods. If he would've been by himself, what would've happened walking to his dog? What would've happened? And that, that comes into the whole staying together. Just caveating off of that.

I was in a late round of a pro classic and we sent a guy to handle his dog. There was only when we got to the fourth guy tree, he withdrawn 'cause he couldn't win. So it left two of us and the guy that we sent to his tree, the hunts [01:03:00] over, me and the other gentleman, tree Inn. Lo and behold, we can't find the third guy.

We spend 40 minutes looking for this guy. His dog ain't barking no more. We can't find him. We even had to result in calling Shane and Hey, what do we do here? There's only two of us. There's nobody else in the woods. It's four or five o'clock in the morning. I can't find this guy.

And basically what it ended up happening was he finally came out in the field and his dog didn't stay. He kept on going, but we couldn't find him. We tried calling him. His phone was in the truck. So here you are four o'clock in the morning needing to score two trees to figure out who won. And there's only two of us standing there that would've been eliminated had everybody had to stay together.

I agree. So I see a lot of I see more pros than I see cons with this rule. I think it'll pass. I think pro sport's been doing it long enough. Now that I disagree with you, you think it'll, you don't think it'll [01:04:00] pass? I do not think it'll pass. Okay. I think it'll pass, but here's why. Okay. How long ago?

How long ago? It's kinda like the leash. The leash lock, right? It passed and then it got reversed. And then it got reversed. Yeah. I still think that was a dumb move. So I, here we go. This is not so hot take, but I think that when it comes to rule proposals, there are certain avenues in certain people that will do what they want.

In professional Kennel Club, we all know who I'm talking about, and they will whatever they see fit, that's what they're gonna do. Okay, let's, this is really good. Let's go to the next one. Let leash lock. Let's go to the 10 minute lease Stock proposal. I don't like it. Okay. God, this is good.

I don't like it. I do, I tell you why I don't like it. Tell me. You just had more times. You got one minute after you turn loose, you've got two minutes. Dog has to tree [01:05:00] on a tree or Bart, every two minutes, you got your th hopefully three minute shine time. You got your one minute after the tree.

Like we're just adding more and more times. What's the point in having a 10 minute leash lock? You can't tree coon sitting on a leash. No. Why have any I'm into that. So I agree 100% no leash lock. I'm there, but we already tried it once. It didn't work. It didn't work. I don't see a 10 minute, what are you benefiting by going from no leash lock to a 10 minute?

I think that it's, I think you're playing with feelings more than anything. Here's my thing. I think you're, I think you're trying to compromise and if you disagree, With the leash lock rule, meaning there should be no leash lock. If you disagree with that, why would a 10 minute leash lock rule be okay?

I get it. I understand that, and I'm under the same belief. I do not like leash lock. You cannot True coons on the end of a leash. I don't like it. I didn't pay my entry fee to walk my dog around the woods. If I wanted to do that, I'd [01:06:00] go to a park on a Sunday afternoon. Amen. Preach. But we tried it.

They people got what they wanted, then they complained about walking too much, so it got reverted back. You know what? This podcast is not going very well. We're agreeing way too much. No we have several disagreeances here. We haven't even, we haven't even hit the hot topic yet. So I don't think we're gonna disagree as much as you think though.

I don't know. The more I think about it, the more I think, I don't know all, I just think it needs to be worded different. Okay. So leash lock, the 10 minute deal, I think it's better than a full leash lock. I'll go that way. Yeah, I'll try to meet in the middle. I can't, what's that one song? You start walking your way?

I'll start walking mine. We meet in the middle. Now I'll tell you what though. I'll tell you what. Stephen Smith's got a real proposal here. That ain't too bad. This would, I think, would meet in the middle [01:07:00] on the casting together. And that is cast must stay together in all pro classics with entry fee of a thousand or more.

Okay. Tell me more. To me that's trying to meet in the middle, so you got a lot of guys who talk about the small time Hunter. You get where I'm going with this? Yep. That's me. I am the small time hunter. The difference between the big entries and the small entries, I think if you do it like that, to me it gives everybody a place to play.

It's people want to gripe and complain about these big entries, but there's $30 hunts, there's a hundred dollars hunts, 3,505. You need to get your numbers right. Oh, excuse me, I'm a little old school. There's 35, 1 0 5, $200 pro classics, three, four, 5,000. I think to me, there's a place for everybody to play.

And I think this right here cuts it down the middle, as [01:08:00] far as trying to. Adhere to the older crowd and the younger crowd, or even the younger crowd that doesn't want everybody staying together. So I think this right here would be a compromise. Yeah, I agree. It's not a bad rule. I'll just say this on it.

I think that one way or another the cast needs to stay together, whether it's full time, as of right now, I, I'm in. Thank you, the Lord. I'm in good enough physical shape that I feel like I can walk to every tree. I can stay with the cast I'm all for, the whole cast stand together at all times.

But I know that one day I will be of the older generation, Lord willing, I'll still be hunting dogs and my opinion might change on that. Trying to think about everybody and play as fair as possible, I think that's a good solution. I think it's in the middle. I'd be happy with either one of 'em passes.

All righty. Got another one for you. I actually like this. Dogs returning to the tree the first time will get a hundred minus, and on the second time they get scratched. I agree with that. Yep. And I'll tell you why. [01:09:00] I think everywhere else in our sport, when a dog does something wrong, they're penalized.

The only time they're not penalized is that first time in P K c, that first time that they go back to that tree. It's deleted. It's deleted. Now if we're talking U K C, they can go back a hundred times, which that's the number one rule I don't agree with. But that's neither here nor there. Yeah I completely agree with that, and I like that rule.

Yeah. I'm into that one. All right. Moving on. I think we're almost to the hot topic about time. I'm hungry. And we got dogs to cut loose. There's a couple other ones that I don't think we'll get into. I think the strike, 'cause there's so many strike proposals. Okay. Okay. I think that what we'll do is just maybe go over a broad spectrum of Different ones.

There's multiple ones. It's saying, 30 seconds, minute, have to strike under [01:10:00] the minute. I think if we lump 'em all together into we can talk all about all them together. And then the one about the first dog to tree, we can talk about that one separate. What would you say? Okay. Lead it off.

Lead it off. I'll just, I'll go with the flow here. You gonna go with the flow? Yeah. 'cause I have an opinion on it. I've thought about the, you and I had an in-depth conversation and I wish we would've recorded this the other day. We had probably what? A 40 minute conversation. Oh man, that one was good.

I, oh, it was hot. That one was good. I like that one. It was hot and heavy. This one here. I've had, we've both had time to think about it since that discussion that we had. I don't particularly like the proposals with the 50 strike and everything else. 25, you're doing the exact same thing. The dogs that bark first are getting the advantage.

I think I'm just gonna jump right in and just tell you about my feelings about the whole strike in general. I think forever in a day, I'm not [01:11:00] opposed to just leaving it the way it is, even though I don't believe that we are justly awarding the right winner all the time. And I'll give you an example.

Little female Wild Style Molly, owner Nikki Hale. I sold him that dog. That dog was notorious for busting loose on a deer buddy. You cut her loose every breath, and the minute she shut up, start your clock. 15, 20, 30 seconds, boom. She'd be treated when she shut up. That's 'cause she smelled a cone when she tree.

That's 'cause she treated. So I was getting a hundred strike. Was I taking advantage of it? Yep. I was getting a hundred strike off of a deer. Now I'll give you another quick scenario. This don't happen very often. You cut four dogs [01:12:00] loose, two minutes goes by, three minutes goes by, nothing barks. All of a sudden no Joe down there in the bottom barks three times.

Bryce strikes him in. He runs for about five minutes and then he shuts up. Next time you hear him, he's five, 600 yards to the left. Now running another track. What was he running on that first one? Don't know, but yet he got a hundred strike. Yep. So forever in a day since the beginning, since I can remember, we have awarded dogs based on them just barking, just opening their mouth, not having a clue what they were getting points for.

And we can't, like it was mentioned earlier in the callins, we can't tell what they're smelling. We don't know if a quote unquote track is evident. Yep. We can't prove that. And that goes along with everybody. And I've been very adamant and vocal on social media about, and my personal opinion, [01:13:00] anybody that believes that they can definitely tell when a dog is babbling and when he's not is fully naive.

You can't sit here and tell me, and I put a, an example up on the board. Oh buddy, everybody. Knows the dog that I hunt. I was at Tournament Champions. But he's got a habit every now and then. You cut him loose in a field with full of other dogs. You know how it is. They get happy, they get excited, you cut him loose, they go running down the edge.

He may say 7, 8, 9 barks. Won't happen in the woods, but every now and then in a field he'll do it. We cut him loose. Boom. He goes to the barking. I'm like, oh no you're not. You're not gonna get me. I'm not striking you 'cause I know exactly what you're gonna do. You're gonna shut up. Next thing you know you're gonna be six tenths of a mile in there and I'm gonna get minus little joker goes about 300 yards.

Bam. Fall Street. I've hunted that dog. I know that dog [01:14:00] inside and out. And there ain't no way in hell, I could have told you that dog wasn't babbling. There ain't no way. And I had that happen to me at black and tan days. It wasn't quite that bad, they all strike off the lead.

And wheels. I was hunting him. He went 49 yards and rolled up tree and I was like, I took 50 strike on the deal. He went 49 yards distance in front of me, but he went to the left a little bit, went to the right a little bit, but he ended up treating 49 yards in front of me, so I took 50 strike on that deal.

I'm like heck, if I had have fricking struck him in for a hundred, I'd be sitting in a hundred and I didn't have to walk 50 yards, but I didn't, I lost the cast. Yeah. So I get it. I get it. You can't sit here and tell me, now, pretty much the only time you know is if you cut a dog across the field and he's barking every breath, and then he gets to the woods and he shuts up and you don't hear from him until he's a half a mile in there.

Then that's obvious, but how many times does that happen? Not very often. Not very often. Usually it's a dog [01:15:00] barking. Here, there, here, there, here, there, here, there, here, there. How many times in these $35 hunts does the dog strike for a hundred? And 57 minutes later come treat and win the cast. It has happened many times.

Yep. Many times. Many times. And like I said, that just goes into the whole rule proposals of I don't agree with the 50 and 25 rules. There's four or five of 'em that varying time. And there's even ones out there that if you strike under the minute, you have to tree under the minute.

I don't agree with that. Just 'cause a dog, we've all turned coons loose before. Some of 'em will go up the first tree and then some of them I've had some turn loose coons go 5, 6, 700 yards. So you can't justify, oh they've got a tree under the minute. So that leads us to the ever controversial rule change.

Let's hear it. Read it off verbatim. [01:16:00] I'll read it verbatim. 'cause I'm. I dunno. I've had a strong feeling on this one for a week or so. Now the more I think about it, the more I'm like, okay, I might see the other side, but I think there has to be a verbiage change for me to buy in completely. Oh boy. Let's just, lemme, let's just dig into it.

Let's dig into it. Okay. Josh Watson. Josh Watson proposed this. Yes sir. All dogs will begin by being struck in for 25. The dogs will then be awarded strike points by the order in which they're declared tree. For example, the first dog declared tree will receive a hundred strike points. The second dog declared tree will receive 75 strike points, so on and so on.

Dogs will remain at 25 strike until they're declared tree or the fourth dog declared tree. [01:17:00] Okay, got it. Hot. Hot or not. Mediocre. Okay. I was getting ready to say, I was like, man, I medi, you asked me this the other day. I said, not mediocre. Now I'm in the middle. I'll tell you why. Okay? You take first on this one.

Okay. So I don't think that the dog should, I don't think strike and tree points should be married together, period. Don't marry him together like they as if the way this rule is written right now, you don't know how to score the dog until you score the tree. Okay? So to that's my version of marrying it.

I understand like you're somewhat married right now, but you have a definite place on the scorecard. But before you get to the tree with this rule, you don't have anything other than 25. And that's only so that you have something to minus a dog in case they come back to you. So I don't like that rule. I think if you're gonna do it that way, they need to live and die by the sword.

If you're gonna plus 'em on a coon, you need to minus 'em both ways, plus 'em both ways. On a coon, you need to minus 'em both ways. For leaving now, not for leaving. Here's, go ahead. Here's, I don't [01:18:00] like it. I don't like it. Here's, and I'm probably gonna get some hate mail on this one. That's okay.

That's fine. It's opinions. The one thing that I would be maybe okay with, and I think this is where the verbiage needs to change, and this is brought up in our call-in session, do away with the strike points. Put everybody in for a quarter. That way you have something to minus if the dog comes back to your feet, just do tree points.

Let's do it. I think trying to be a reasonable individual and see both sides of the story and having debated this with you and a couple other people, I think that is a rule that I could support and understand. I think understanding is the key word there. I could understand the logic behind that more than the strike and tree.

I, yeah. It's confusing it, it's not confusing with the strong judge who's capable of doing simple math. It's okay. But I don't like, I don't like marrying [01:19:00] Strike and Tree. That's how I feel about it. So audience, just to give you a backstory on this, I think we've mentioned it a few times, but when this first started, me and Bryce spent 45 minutes and Bryce was like he was like a die hard democrat and he was far left.

Do not even go there on my podcast. This is mine and I will take a stand for myself and my beliefs. Go ahead. He was far one way and I was far the other way. I was totally for it. Through having time to think about it, talking to a bunch of hunters at Roiner's Classic, talking to Josh Watson, I got to talk to him and his boy topnotch guys first and foremost topnotch guys.

Is that Coy Watson dad? Yes, it is. Okay, gotcha. I just put two and two together there. Continue topnotch guys. Topnotch handlers. Definitely always a pleasure whenever I get to talk to them. So going on from there. I got to talk to a bunch. So I think in the [01:20:00] time between then and now, you've come to the middle and I've come to the middle.

I can see what you're saying with this rule proposal as far as is I'm fine if they even pass it the way it is. Me personally, I can see it from your view. I think there's a better way to do it. However, if they were to pass this to me, you are awarding the dog that trees the coon the fastest. Now, however, there's been a lot of debate.

Oh so because mine ran 900 and yours ran 50, that you should win over me. We're already doing that. Yours barked at 50, mine barked at 900 and you're beating me. We're already doing it. Except for now, at least when you plus that strike points, no matter where he is at a hundred seventy five, fifty [01:21:00] twenty five, no matter where you're sitting, he's got a cone or he's in the whole big time in the wintertime, you get a dog that goes in there and bam slams 100 and a hundred.

He's sitting on a slick, but he was the last one to strike in. That hurts, right? That's gonna hurt. But I see where you're coming from. I'm with you actually. I think the, in my personal opinion, Steven Bland's personal opinion, which don't mean much. I think the perfect way to do it is everybody strikes in for a quarter.

I think the proposal that Chris Bowing had is completely genius. I think the first dog that is tree a Coon. You put a one next to that dog, the next dog to tree Coon. You put a two, three, and four. If dog two and four are tied at the end of the hunt, let the first tie breaker, you know how we got those tiebreaker rules on the, in the pro hound?

Let the first tiebreaker [01:22:00] be the dog. That tree, the coon first now. The only time that you are awarding a dog for tree it the fastest is when two dogs are tied. I like that. I can get on board with that and I'm not the only one. I was at the Oceaneer Classic and it was me and Dustin Weed and Judas Bowling and we were standing around having a conversation about this and actually Dustin's the one that kinda was the first one I heard actually tell it exactly like that.

Chris echoed exactly what Dustin was saying out there. And I completely agree with that. I think that would be a fabulous, and we got to talking about getting off topic, just a hair. People talk about babbling dogs and how much they win. When was the last time a automatic strike dog won the world?

Huh? I [01:23:00] cannot answer that question 'cause I don't know a thousand dollar bill long time ago. So I'm not saying they don't win at the rate that you think they do or that they don't win at a rapid rate, but they don't win. You look at your top-notch dogs out there. When was the last time that an automatic strike dog was a dominant winner?

Probably Z. Z or Marv? Yeah, Marv, you strike him off the leash. There's not, I mean it's kinda like Travis Carlock was saying, name me five, but Z and Mar were literal mates, aren't they? Yes. Yeah. Okay, so that makes sense. Name, name me five dogs that are top-notch that are winning night in and night out there that are automatic strike dogs.

See I honestly I can't even speak on that and do it in a correct fashion because I know the dogs that are winning, but I don't dive into the scorecards to see what they're striking for. Yeah. So I cannot speak intelligently on that one. Yeah. And this ain't just for me because there's, like I said, I'm a small fish.

Yeah, I do a [01:24:00] little bit here and there, and I try to hunt hard, but as far as going to these big hunts I'm not there. I do have sympathy for, I was reading a couple comments from Michael Ward and he was just basically saying, why don't these big hunts be judged?

And the rule proposals be done by those that hunted it? And I, I can't argue with that because a lot of the guy, the guys that are spending the 4,000 6,500 entries, and it's all the same guys, usually for the most part they're being affected by guys that don't even coon hunt, but sit on the couch.

That's correct. But let's go back to Jason Dory's comment on somebody's post where he said, and I agree, where he said that, P K C is a club-based membership and you pay your dues to have a voice. Yes. Yeah, like you said, you see both sides of the coin. I see both sides. You can play devil's advocate either way you wanna play it.

Yes, you can. You can fit the narrative however it fits you best. Yes, you can do that. But I think, I think it's important. Going back to the main topic here on the strike points, [01:25:00] that I think we've finally both come to it. Halfway agreement. Hey guys this has taken a long time, guys.

This is hell is gonna freeze over. This is this is almost like a marriage argument. Like it's taken a while. He's got his side, I've got my side, and you fight and fight, and then you just go your separate ways and you don't talk for a day. There was a lot of marriage counseling that went into this.

You just don't talk for a day. And then, you know what? You've had time to think on it. Okay. Maybe he's not such a terrible guy, but he's still wrong. But no, God, no. This is good. And this is why I wanted to bring Basham on here because, for the longest time, I've got a few certain guys that if I have a question, I know who to call.

If I got a real question I'm calling Basham, I'm calling Shane, I'm calling a few of my good buddies, dog training advice the same way. So I wanted to bring somebody on here who I know that I've had good conversations with, who understands the rules, can speak intelligently on it. And I think Basham is that guy.

And he's done, just fantastic job with the Collins Tonight and Field and all these questions. And, I'm super, super glad to have him on the podcast, so appreciate it, [01:26:00] bud. Yeah, man. One thing I want to do before we wrap this up, we're closing in on an hour and a half providing that all of our stuff recorded.

I know it, I hope didn't like a broken record closing in on an hour and a half here, so we don't wanna keep them much longer than we need to, but I do want to bring up, Hashtag Semper Dogen. Ooh, because I like this. I like you. I'm in. I like you right now, you know why I'm into this. I was gonna, I was gonna cut your podcast so that I could do a little promoting on my SPER Dogen.

I'm, but I'm, you're the man. I'm loving you right now. I'm gonna do it. No, homo we're not like that on this podcast at these two guys. Semper Dogan, I like it. Because I know your story. I know a little bit about you, and there's so much more to the story of Basham than what was, told.

That's a whole nother podcast, right? Than what was told in the the pre-roll there, whatever you wanna call that, the introduction. Give me a quick rundown on seper dogging quick rundown. Basically how it came about real quick, down and dirty. I'm a union electrician and I worked for the same company for quite a while.

A bigger [01:27:00] company came and bought my smaller company out and they shut the electrical division down. So being a union contractor, I was sent back to the hall, which is nothing an ordinary for us, go back to the hall, catch another call, go make some money somewhere, right? I was like, ah, you know what?

I'm gonna spend a little time at home and do a few things around the house and catch up on a little bit of hunting, even though we all know that I don't lack any of the hunting part. No, I've never seen somebody in my entire life that can hunt all night, sleep on 30, go on 30 minutes of sleep, and go to work the next day and do it again five nights a week.

I've said that for years now. I don't know how he functions, but he does continue anyways it just all came about and I started hunting a few dogs for a few different people and realized that that I can make a, let's just call it what it is. I can make a little bit of money a month, to support my family to.

Put food on the table, blah, blah, blah, blah, to bridge that gap of not working every single day, going, being an electrician. I started hunting and then I got hooked [01:28:00] up with an old buddy of mine that me and him have a lot of similarities. Bobby Taylor and I started hunting for him.

He gave me a few dogs which we have one very exciting young dog coming up. Mark my words, axle outer drive line, really nice. Up and coming spring, one year old. I just let it go from there and started hunting a few more and a few more. And then just like anything else on Facebook, I was like, man, there's gotta be a way to not just put my name out there as somebody that hunts dogs, but give something back to the people that send me a dog.

A little appreciation, yeah, they're giving me money, but, and I'm giving them my time in trying to make their dog better or give them what they want in their dog. 'cause for me it's not just coon hunting, I train bomb dogs and drug dogs and obedience dogs. And so there's a lot that goes into it, from everyday feeding dogs, cleaning kennels.

You know this, you got 15, 18 dogs [01:29:00] up there, something like that. Hey, we are down to I think 12. Oh man. We're doing good. How did you talk her into that? Some things are give and take. That means you need to take a few home, right? Negative. Okay. Just checking. By the way, Nikki, when you listen to this he really wants a few more puppies, just so you know.

Anyways I just got to thinking and I was looking around and I was like, man what means something to me? I've, everybody that's seen me knows that I've got tattoos and so everything in my life I try to keep it means something heartfelt, whatever. And just something in my head kept going back to Semper Fidelis, always faithful Marine Corps model, always faithful.

Short, simplify. So I just got to thinking, and I was like, man, I'm always dogging. I'm always hunting. I'm always traveling. This weekend, I got West Virginia State Hunt. Next weekend I gotta hunt. I'm not home for a weekend until October, guys, every single weekend I've got the fall super stakes, right in [01:30:00] the long the lines with World Hunt, which I'll go on ahead and.

Publicly say it, I think is the dumbest and most retarded thing that P K C and U K C could do that they can't get above themselves to separate these hunts. To give the hunters a little bit of space in between two of the biggest hunts in our field, which would be the P K C world qualifiers and automotives.

Oh no, it's not even just that. P K C had to Yeah, I understand. Dump on top of that. So you have the P K C world qualifiers, then you have TMOs. The very next weekend you have U K C zones that Monday starts the fall. Super stakes. Yep. And fall super stakes. And the U K C world collide. Yep. The third weekend of September.

Yep. They do. And you gotten a pinch of that one time didn't you? Twice. Yep. Twice I've had to, you had to pick where you were going. Tw which I mean, that's just me. A U K C world is gonna be way more than a super stakes win for me. So twice I've had to choose between going to the semifinals or the [01:31:00] quarterfinals and the top 100.

So that's just the way it goes. But anyways, so I got to looking around and trying to see. The word semper in Latin terms means always, and I'm always hunting. So just came up with seper dogging and it stuck. I'll let you talk for a second about it and I'm going to actually, just so I can get your thoughts on live air, I'm going to pull up the actual patch that was created and you will be the first ever to see this patch.

How about that? Now that's exciting. And I think that Sempra dog and fits you. Fits you really well. 'cause anybody that does know you, knows that you do everything a hundred percent. Full throttle. There's no slowing down. You hunt hard. And I don't say that just 'cause you're my buddy.

It's the fact. Oh my. Okay. I'm into it. That's a nice looking patch. Who made that? Because it wasn't me. No. Did you use somebody else for a laser? [01:32:00] Andra? No. Hold up. Did you hold up. Did you not use Midwest laser works? Hold up. 'cause I thought about you, Uhhuh my question, are you ready for this?

Uhhuh, are you sewing 'em on hats yet? No. No. I'll make the patch. Are you sewing 'em on yet? I'll make the patch when somebody else has to stole 'em. Okay, so this guy here and if you want me to, I can give him a shout out. If not, then I won't. But you're good now. It's a good looking patch. Yes. I thought about you.

At the very beginning then that's as far as it went. A thought. No, I was like, you know what, Bryce is not gonna sew and get ready for this. 50 patches on 50 hats. That's not bad. That's a pretty decent order. So my question is, are you gonna sew 'em? Because if you will, then my next order's coming through you, buddy.

No, I'm not sewing 'em. Oh, come on. I'm busy, Nikki. That is your next endeavor. Entrepreneurship. Here you go. Now Midwest Laser Works is busy. We're knocking out some stuff, but yeah. So the Seper dog of man, that's good looking patch. Yes, sir. That's, I appreciate you very much for that. [01:33:00] It fits you well.

Like it, it excites me to see that I. Genuinely enjoy it. So we're getting ready to go dogging tonight. We've got, what, four dogs here at the house? Yeah we got three. I went and picked up a fall. One year old that is a younger litter mate to Axle. So I'm excited to see what's gonna happen.

I want to give a shout out to Prairie Branch Kennels. That's where his, he's going to be headed. Michelle and Benton Roberts. They do an amazing job down there training young dogs in the pen. That's just my personal preference. Go on my Facebook, see me at semper dogging. And if you have a dog that you need hunted up, you need to put a little bit of time, a little bit of training.

Please look my way and gimme a call. Yeah, man. It's been great. It's been a great podcast. I'm looking forward to going and turning some dog loose tonight. I tell you what though, if the dog gets in the swamp tonight that they got in on let's see here, Saturday night. We're sending Jocelyn. I'm not going.

Yeah. And by the way, guys a hundred percent respect Bryce and everything that he's done. Oh man, Bryce, it's been a [01:34:00] wild ride. I remember way back, he was a young gun didn't know anybody, didn't know anything. And I contacted Johnny Hamilton and said, Hey, I need somebody to handle a dog for me.

He said I got a guy. He don't really know the rules, but he'll handle one. He'll call him strike and call him Tree, and that's about all he knows. And I picked Bryce up at the local seven 11, Sticking his thumb out, holding his freaking pan leg up, looking for a ride. And we've been rocking and rowing ever since.

I appreciate you, bud. You're there. Ride or die? I'm a hype man. Not only that, but I am genuinely proud of you in the endeavors that you've made. Not only with this podcast, but you're laser work company starting it from scratch, not knowing anything about it. And guys, he does some quality work.

If you haven't seen his leather tumblers by the way, you will be getting a sizable order for those leather tumblers 'cause they are amazing. Look him up. He does an amazing job, and I just wanted to personally give you a shout out for that. Yeah, buddy. I appreciate that. It's been a wild ride, like I said, just when [01:35:00] I met, you didn't know much about it and you remember the videos that we got so much crap for. But Alan loved and Rich loved them. We're just living in the moment, man. We're just having fun, not bigheaded, not just a lot of people, took us wrong that nah, there wasn't no reason to take us wrong.

It was just two guys having fun living in the moment, but there's been a lot from the, oh man, the zones to the world hunt, to super stakes to, by the way to bash him getting his truck stuck in the only mud puddle in an entire field during the middle of a drought. We're gonna have to save all of these stories for a different style of podcast.

Yeah. 'cause this one's getting long. It is, it's getting long-winded. One last shout out. My daughter the Champ, she's coming outta retirement tonight. I love having her with me. She's my little sidekick. I wouldn't be doing anything that I'm doing without the little sidekick next to me pushing me. Yeah, man, definitely love having her here and loving to share the moment and bring her up in this field that I absolutely love.

Yeah, man. All right, let's wrap it up here. I appreciate it. Jocelyn. Thanks for coming tonight. Thanks for hanging out while [01:36:00] we sit here and ramble on about rules and dogs. We know you listen to it on the phone every day, so you have to keep up with it. Hold on. One last thing. Jocelyn. What do you say, dad, come here.

What do you say dad sounds like when he talks about dogs? Blah, blah, blah. Dogs. I think we're gonna end with that one. Blah, blah, blah. Dogs. All right guys, we're done. That's it. We're done. Blah, blah, blah. That's a mic drop. Dog. Dogs. So yeah, guys, go over to hounds man You can find all of our merch over there.

Check out the leather wrap. Tumblers b we just talked about. Check out the new hats, the new shirts, the stickers, the dog boxes. We've got everything over there on hows We look forward to seeing you guys at Autumn Oaks. That's coming up. I'll be there. Bashing will be there. Chris Don, mess it up with Spot.

Chris Heath, the, I gotta hunt spot this year. Chris Heath, all, just, all the guys from the team are gonna be at automotive. It's gonna be a great time. We look forward to seeing you guys there. Feel free to swing by, talk to all of us. If you guys like this new style where we had a little guest call in, provided it works for the [01:37:00] 17th time, then you know, let us know.

Drop us a dmm, let us know through email. However you guys wanna get ahold of us, let us know if you like that style. We want to give you listeners what you want to hear. So hopefully you guys enjoy this podcast. We've got dogs to turn loose. I've gotta make me some dinner before we do that though, 'cause I'm getting ready to blow away in the wind.

I'm ready. But I hate to be a bear. Bad noose, but you're not gonna blow away, blah, blah, blah. Dogs. See you guys.