The Dogmen w/ Carter Shultz

Show Notes

On the kickoff episode of The Dogmen Podcast, hosts Ed Barnes and Tanner Herr catch up with Carter Shultz of Boars-N-Broads in Ringling, Oklahoma at the September Mudcreek Hog Bay. The group gets some insight into Carter’s start with hog dogs and where he is today. They also discuss the past, present and future of hog baying as a sport.  Carter sprinkles hunting stories, smoke shows and run-ins with the law into the mix as well as real dog insight.  It is a light hearted, funny conversation among friends. Enjoy “The Dogmen” only on the Houndsmen XP Podcast Network.

Topics discussed:

Woods class hog baying

Starting hog hunting

The start of Boars-N-Broads

Origins of his dog pack

Heirloom tomatoes, Grandma and a smoke show

Fishing for giant stripers

And much more.

Show Transcript

[00:00:00] Don't touch that dial, it's the Dogmen Radio Hour on Houndsman XP. Your hosts, Ed Barnes and Tanner Hurd. Now a word from our sponsors at your favorite beverage company. Yes, beverages are always refreshing and good for you too. So remember to stop and enjoy a nice cold beverage from your favorite beverage

company. and hear their latest adventure on the dog.

First go round, uh, Dog Men podcast. This is Tanner Herr. Ed Barnes. We got special guest Cody Jenkins and Carter Schultz. They, uh, come to a bay here at Ringling. Just checking it out. Carter's got some dogs running. I don't have anything that will bark at a pig, [00:01:00] so I didn't bring anything. So. We got some questions for you.

Answer them fast, just kind of get to know you. Yeah, I can, I can, I can reel off some answers. Okay. Might not be the answers you want to hear, but I can reel them off pretty quick. Ed's going to read them off to you. It's multiple choice. Alright. We're going to throw some questions at you and just answer them as fast as you can.

That's what I like to hear. Okay. Woods, Bay Penn? Uh, Woods. Open, silent? Uh, silent. Mayo or Miracle Whip? I don't either. Hound or Cur? Uh, Cur. Blonde or brunette? Ooh, brunette. Free cast or road? Uh, free cast. Cut or kill? Uh, oh, cut. Bud light or white claw? Ha ha, neither. Miller light. Damn it! Like, we set you up and it didn't work.

Hobbles or mule tape? Ah, mule tape, every time. Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota? Ah, it's hard to be the good Yoda. Yeah. Bulldog Dogo. Ooh, definitely Bulldog. Deer Race [00:02:00] or Armadillo Hole? Ooh, Deer Race, I love it. Your boyfriend's name? Um, it depends on the day. But my business partner's name is Ryan. He can't be here, so.

Sometimes we get mistaken to be a little bit more than we are, but Ryan's happily married to a vet that makes really good money, and we get to hunt a lot, so. That's handy having a vet. Yeah, oh yeah. You handled that pretty good. We had a couple setups we were hoping to trip you on, but... I... I've been... I've been blessed to be around a lot of witty people in my life, so I, I, I don't consider myself extremely smart, but I, I have gotten to the point where I feel like I am pretty witty, and um, you know, because if you're around witty people that are really sharp and cunning, um, it's, it's hard to, uh, it's hard to stay...

Not pissed off if you're not sharp and witty and cunning right back to him, so. [00:03:00] Yeah, we should mention that, uh, you're one half of, uh, Boars and Broads. One half, yes sir. Um, we, uh, Ron wanted to make it, but he, I think he had to work yesterday. He FaceTimed me on the way up here, and he's a firefighter, so, you know, he, he's 24 on, 48 off.

And, uh, when he works hard, I mean, he's working really hard. They're running a lot of calls in the night. But, I mean, he FaceTimes me at like 3 o'clock in the afternoon yesterday sitting on the couch with his feet up, watching, watching football or something. And I'm like, dude, you don't do anything. And he's like, oh no, man, we had, we had 12 calls.

And I was like, but you're not, you're sitting there watching TV. He's like, oh yeah, we just ate dinner. And, uh, but he wanted to be here, but he had to work and couldn't, couldn't make it shake. But yes, I am, uh, one half of Boars and Broads. So what, I mean, when, you guys started about a year and a half ago, maybe?

Uh, it's been, I think, technically it's been almost two and a half years now. Um, [00:04:00] it started off as a TikTok, um, because I didn't want anybody to really know my name and the fact that I had a TikTok. And I was just kind of checking it out and I started posting like some of our hunting clips on there or whatever and like it immediately blows up and goes through the roof and uh, I was like, I was telling him about it and he was like, dude we should make a business and I was like what are you talking about and he was like, no I mean we should, we should just, we should.

Uh, buy a LLC and call it Boars and Broads and he said we'll do it on Facebook and Instagram and everything. I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? It's like, think about it. We already go hunt. He's like, we, we already video pretty much everything. We'll buy a camera and, and, and start it. And that was how it started.

And you know, we, we were, we've never really changed our business plan. We have no idea what we're doing, but we do stuff. So it works out. I mean. It's like learning how to [00:05:00] get hats produced at a price cheap enough to sell to hog hunters at a mass level has been, you know, Ryan's got an ag, an ag econ degree.

I have a degree in history. So, uh, it's not like I, uh, we, either one of us really have a lot of experience in the, uh, In the world of economics, but you know, we've we've done pretty well so far. So it's kind of weird like, uh You know, I run a magazine, but I think of like magazines, it's like, it's kind of an old school technology.

And I really, I remember when you, when I first found you guys, I was like, uh, you know, this is the future. The future is dudes just like making short videos. Well, and that's the, that's the thing. Um, it's, it's been really crazy to me because I had a little bit of background in, uh, video editing and, and things like that.

And it was like. But, [00:06:00] um, it's funny when you really sit back and watch the trends and how things work when you can take something that's Very trendy on whatever social media platform it may be and then correlate it to what you want to correlate it to. It always does well. And you know, it's been one of those things where we've just kind of paid attention to what people want to see.

And, uh, one of the things when we started, I told Ryan, I was like, man, I don't want this to be about you and I and how great we are and things like that. I want it to be the truth. And we will always tell the truth about us. We'll always tell the truth about our dogs. We'll, we'll tell you the mistakes that we made and we'll tell you the good things that we did.

So, you know, it's, it's like, cause we're kind of 50, 50, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny. And then we're truthful, you know? So it's, I think we've got a pretty good balance on what we do and. How we can [00:07:00] reach people for the better. And, uh, we, I mean, we've both been blessed by, I mean, it's been one of the best things that's ever happened to me starting this company.

So, yeah, I mean, like, like I was saying is. I was on the lake last weekend and I seen a couple people wearing your hats, you know, and I'm not saying they was hog hunters or wasn't hog hunters, but I mean, it's taken off. It's pretty cool, um, I tell people all the time, like people think I'm this like super outgoing extroverted person that likes to talk to everybody.

If you ask my mom, I am far from it. I'm, I'm somewhat socially... awkward because I'm always processing something like I'm looking for doorways and things like that. I kind of have a little bit of tism to me, um, but I'm always processing, but this has allowed me to kind of step outside of those boundaries that I've kind of set on myself because I'm talking about something that I really love.

And I don't mind talking to new people, um, you know, getting out there [00:08:00] and, and meeting people and, uh, things like that. Uh, like I've. Grown as a person because of this, um, I never imagined myself to be on, uh, viral, uh, tick tock or Instagram video, uh, doing something goofy online. And like, it took me a long time to get like where I kind of accepted it.

And it's just, it's kind of been one of those things that, uh, I've, I've grown a lot from all the experiences that we've had, so. So, I mean, how did you, let's go way back and like, how did, what, what's your first introduction into hunting dogs? Not just hog dogs, like, how did you start? Okay, so I, I had, uh, I had a mountain curb, a, uh, registered mountain curb when I was eight or nine years old named Boss, and If I had Boss now, I, I guarantee you that [00:09:00] Joker would be a hog dog, but he was a squirrel dog.

And, uh, I was still too young to really, you know, have a good grasp on what it took to create a hunting dog. He was, he was so athletically gifted that if he saw a squirrel in the front yard and the tree was... 30 yards away. He would catch the squirrel before it got to the tree. I mean he was one of those dogs and uh, you talk about a free cast and if you open the front door he would, he would, if he didn't have a collar on, I mean that joker's gone and he's gonna run for an hour and then he'll come back whenever he wants to.

Um, but that was really the first thing and uh, I grew up, I grew up fishing. Um, I grew up hunting too, but You know, I never really had anything for, uh, sitting in a deer stand. Um, my dad has a, uh, tree farm. Um, so I was, uh, a lot of the time, um. When I was young, [00:10:00] they had, they've got a high fence around the farm now, but he shot deer on a nuisance permit.

So he never wanted to really go deer hunting because deer hunting to him was a job. He would go out every night with a big spotlight and shoot deer every night to keep them off the trees. And uh, so I, I never really deer hunted that much growing up. I, you know, would go squirrel hunting and things like that, but, um, I, I really grew up fishing and I would, and until I was probably 20 years old, I fished probably 200 days out of the year.

Whereas I hunt 200 days out of the year, bass fishing and um, you know, I like inshore fishing and now it's gotten to where I've kind of reversed the script and I hunt 200 days out of the year, but I still love fishing, but I've kind of shifted my focus towards like Catching big stripers and stuff like that.

Like I, I really enjoy getting out there and grinding to, to catch something big, you know, like I love bass fishing [00:11:00] still, but at the same time, I've caught three, I've caught three large mouth over 10 pounds. Like, I kind of feel like I've done pretty much what I'm going to do in that aspect, but I want to go out there and catch a 40 or 50 pound striper.

and I like to go places that other people can't go. Um, we take our, we take our little john boat on the river a lot. And I mean, we always have a chainsaw because, you know, we like to go places that other people can't just don't have the I mean, I guess the nuts to go to try, you know, and, and we get wrecked all the time.

And that's what people don't, they don't really consider like, dude, if you're going to be hard on your stuff and you're going to be hard on yourself and you're going to, you're going to live hard and you're going to go places and do things that other people don't do, you're going to get wrecked a good bit.

You know, it's not always, it's not always easy. I went striper fishing for the first time this summer, like take some of my day. [00:12:00] I'm going back. Oh, man It's it's crazy the power that those fish have. Yeah, like because I mean we catch them on bass gear like we like we're we're out there throwing a jerkbait on 15 pound mono and And like you're fishing all day It's gotten to the point now where you catch a lot of hybrids, like the, the hybrid, um, the white bass, striper cross, and whatnot, um, you catch a lot of hybrids, so you get a few bites, but then, you know, you're still looking for like that 40, and you might go four hours without a bite, and then all of a sudden you see like this fish as big as this table swim up and just wake right behind your bait, and you're sitting there watching him twitch, twitch, twitch, twitch, twitch.

And he doesn't need it. And you're just like, y'all are fishing top water. Yeah. Jerk baits and things like that. Real clear water. So the, the way it works is, is we're down below the dam on, uh, on Mondays. They generate, they don't [00:13:00] generate over the weekends. So the water. Temperature heats up to about 82 degrees.

They are generating from 300 feet deep, 250 feet deep. So that 55 degree water is coming in there, those thread fin shad just immediately just start locking up. And those stripers know as soon as that current starts, as soon as that cold water comes, that bait is going to be up there and we got to go eat.

So you're fishing... Georgia? Uh, yeah, it's the Georgia line. I can't say exactly where it is because I've already given the date Or the days that they do it. But yeah, it's it's the it's the Georgia, South Carolina line So when the when did you start pig hunting? Um, so I started hog when I met Ron in college, uh, my, my business partner, Ron was playing football and, uh, he actually lived with my best friend.

Um, and we met and I was doing a lot of coyote hunting at the time. So we, you know, we talked about hunting and stuff like [00:14:00] that. And uh, he's like, man, he's like, And I, I had grown up with somebody that hog hunted that always invited me hog hunting and I was like, dude, I don't know what the heck hog hunting is.

Like, yeah. Oh, I, and I never went. It's probably a good thing that I never went. It's probably a good thing that I never went when I was young because I would have been addicted. I mean, and I'm one of those people that I, I'm highly addictive. Like I have to watch myself in gambling, like nicotine, uh, everything that I do, I'm going to do all the way.

So it's probably a good thing that I was grown and had a little bit of mental maturity before I started running dogs. Because I mean, I'd like, I'm tough on my dogs and uh, I'm tough on myself and things like that. But yeah, when I met Ron, uh, we went and it's funny, he and I went one time together, uh, didn't catch a hog, but I had a great time, like jumped a hog, had a long race and we were, uh, [00:15:00] hunting with his, his blitz dog, uh, which is the father to my champ dog.

Um, but jumped a hog and actually got to see the hog jumped out of the briars and, and things. And like, we went another time. And, uh, They were like, that was back when we stuck pretty much everything and, uh, man, I went in like CSI Miami on this hog and just whop, bop, bop, bop, just sitting there just sticking it man.

They, they will not let me down on that to this day. Like I think Ryan sent the video, uh, and this has been like seven years ago or something and Ryan sent the video and the group chat, he was like, yeah, back when Carter went CSI Miami on a hog. I mean, it was like. I saw red just, and I just, wop, wop, wop, wop, wop, and it wasn't like one good stick and then twist, it was like, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, stick, and uh, but no, ever since then, I've been hooked.

What kind of dogs you guys mainly run? Um, so, I have, [00:16:00] so, Ron, um, Ron bred that Blitz dog to a, uh, a Catahoula, uh, she was a cow dog, real rough cow dog. Yellow dog, or? No, she was, she was, uh, she was Brindle. Um, uh, Rhyne's dog, the Blitz dog, he was more yellow. He was, he was, uh, um, half cat, half black mouth. And then she had a, uh, she had some walker in her.

So, um, you know, our, our main foundation of what we kind of started when we ran, when we started running together, um, is, is roughly, uh, 50 percent cat, quarter black mouth, quarter walker is. Tree, tree and walker or running walker? Uh, I honestly, I don't know. I don't know if they were treeing or running. I honestly never even asked.

Um, but they, they're very good nose. Um, but when we started hunting those dogs, I tell [00:17:00] people all the time, like when we started hunting those dogs, we were both. Still broke, so we didn't have rigs or buggies or anything. So like, every, everywhere we went we walk hunted. So those dogs are close range dogs, you know.

And had I, had I, had it all over to do again, I would have made, I would have made them cast dogs because that's how I prefer to hunt now, you know. I, I prefer to, to cast. And then when we started getting buggies and, and these things and, uh, what not. Like those dogs just convert it to hunting in front of the buggy.

They didn't want to rig off of the buggy. They wanted to run in front of the buggy. So we just ease down eight miles an hour and just let them run in front of the buggy until they hit a hard 90. Um, and you know, it was one of those things where it kind of worked in our transition, but now we're starting to go.

More towards cast dogs. We still have different varieties because we get to hunt with so many different people that I don't want to. I learned a long time ago. You're not going to force the dog to do something that [00:18:00] it doesn't want to do. So I don't want to be pissed off at my dog for doing something that I don't expect it to do on a regular basis.

I want it to be consistent in the way it hunts and things like that. Now, do I have dogs that can you. Pretty much, pretty well do everything that, that I'd ask him to do as far as hunting. Yeah, but I have one that can do that. Um, girl, a jip I got off of Pat Lewing. Uh, she's, she's, she's not, she's just now getting a year and a half old.

And, uh, she's, she's been really good. She's been a, a really good dog to me. Um, but I, I, I thank Pat all the time for it. And, uh, that's, you know, that's been another thing. I have four, I have four dogs right now. And they're all four from four different geographical locations. Um, I think cast dogs are kind of in the hog dog world, cast dogs are misunderstood, but I have, people are starting to understand it.

I think more the last few [00:19:00] years, but usually it was like, everybody was always like, Oh man. Yeah, I don't think I want to go with them cast dogs. That's just far too much work, and I'm like it is exactly the opposite of that. The opposite. I mean, people have this idea that we have like long range dogs that go a mile and a half, and we, you know, I really don't even know what they're thinking.

And you have like 15 hour races and stuff. Yeah. And it's like, no, like, we pull up to a spot, cast some dogs, and then we sit around and bullshit. And like, and then finally somebody goes, Hey, look at your Garmin. Like, I think they're bad. And then if, if not, you're you, you know, finally they worked their way back to you.

Yeah. Then you pull them up, try to get them to some different ground and kind of do the same thing. Let them ease off. Let them. Well, I tell people that all the time we're, we're riding our, we're blessed. We have, we have a very good population of hogs. It, um. If I needed a dog to, to freecast two miles to go find a hog, then I would have [00:20:00] a two mile dog, but I don't need that.

If a hog, if a dog runs two miles where I am, it ran by hogs. Um, our, our cast stuff typically hunts, um, Typically from 400 to 700, like on, on, you know, not necessarily like I'm not going to cast them here in this dry field and they're going to just plow 800. Like we have to, I try and still set them up for success, you know, as far as finding a little bit of sign, it doesn't have to be necessarily super fresh, but like I want to know that hogs are there, you know, and if they, if they go out there, they're going to go out there and hit a couple of loops, hit a couple of loops, hit a couple of loops and, you know, you can tell when they.

Boom. I'm struck. I'm like, you can tell the difference between them hunting versus them running an actual track. Um, and, like, so, so our stuff is, is four to seven hundred ish, you know. Yeah, I mean, like, Tanner and I, like, we've been hunting together for probably six, seven [00:21:00] years, something like that. So, like, when we first started, our hog population wasn't that good.

So, we had, like, super long life. Right. Two mile. Right. Probably the last three years or so. We haven't needed that. So, like, we've been... It's kind of backwards, but we've been trying to like get our dogs. Tighten them back up. Closer. Right. Like we, Ideally, like if I could just push a button and pick, I'm with you.

I want about a six, seven hundred yard dog. Right. But it goes back, the thing is too, I don't care what you're hunting or what you're doing. You're gonna want to set yourself up for success. You know, you're not gonna go to a place on the lake that you know, there's not no fish. Right. You know. Exactly. I mean, it's just, it's the same, same principle.

Um, so The, the group of dogs that came out of Blitz, um, Champ, Shrimp, those were the two males. And then we had Daisy and Putty are the two females. And all four of them are, [00:22:00] are, Pretty good close range dogs, um, champ and shrimp hunted together since they were, um, I mean since they were eight months old.

They just, about every time they were in the woods, they hunted together and, um, they would bay by themselves. But as soon as another one got there, they, they were gonna try 'em. And then, so, so Ryan and I, honestly, we, to this day, we don't carry a bulldog, really. Uh, we, we, our dogs have, we, we've been really blessed, like our dogs have.

If both of them are baying, if Champ and Shrimp are on the same hog and they're baying, it's a good one. And then we're going to get up there and say, catch him, catch him, catch him, catch him, talk them into it. And, and they're smart enough to know where they're not just going to continue to go in there and get wrecked.

They're, they're, they're really intelligent, um, really intelligent dogs. And the hog that actually killed Shrimp, uh, Shrimp died a little over a year ago now. Um, but he, uh, we had, The best all [00:23:00] around hog dog that I've ever seen, my, my buddy Josh Stander owned out of Tennessee, and, uh, his name was Roo, and, I mean, that joker, I mean, that, that dog was just phenomenal, uh, just one of those anomaly dogs that, you, he looked like a yellow lab, he had a stub tail and he looked like a yellow lab, his hair was that long, but I mean, you could, uh, he ran him on bears, he ran him on hogs, I mean, the, the dog was phenomenal.

Roo Champ, yeah. And shrimp were all baying this hog and we were like, Oh, you know, this is a good one. And, uh, we get up there and finally see it. And it, the, the hog is just walking with them and they got, you know, they're all cut because they, they tried him and, but they backed off and baited, but shrimp got poked one time.

He got hit one time and it was right in his diaphragm. And, uh, he relayed 300 yards after we, we had the hog tied and, uh, went treed. And we go up there and no barking, can't hear anything [00:24:00] squeal. And, and it we're, we're in a swamp. So there's, uh, so green vegetation all over the place and we, we can't see anything.

And I mean, we can't find the dog. So we started hitting the tone button just so you could, you know, we could kind locate him. And man, he had relayed 300 yards and, and was just laid there. Uh, we got him back to the, got him back to the boat, um, put a subq in him and, uh, We're driving back up to the boat ramp and I remember this to this day and it almost kind of brought a tear to my eye because it just kind of, it, it, it, uh, kind of encapsulated the dog that shrimp was.

He wasn't as athletically gifted or as physically gifted as champ was, but he was just a grinder. He was, he, he would, he worked really hard. I mean, he wasn't anything super special, but man, he worked so hard that he overcame a lot of that stuff. But man, we're driving up and, and. That he's laid down and uh, all the other dogs start to picking their head up and [00:25:00] winding and shrimp like is Dead and picks his head up and starts winding lays back down and he's gone You know and that to this day like sticks with me because I'm like man God, if I could ever, if I could ever be that tough man where that's like, that's me, like, um, that, that really meant a lot to me.

And, and it kind of brought a new level of respect to dogs for me. Yeah. I mean, you see that, I mean, I see that more often in bulldogs that just tenacity and I'll always take, I'll always take a less gifted dog with more mental desire. Right. Over the other way around. Well, I mean, you see these dogs that are so phenomenally athletically and physically gifted that, you know, that they don't have to, they don't, you see those dogs get beat all the time because they don't, necessarily have to do everything perfect.

The dog with lesser ability has to figure out how that hogs gonna [00:26:00] run. He has to figure out all that hogs trick because he's not as athletically gifted as the dog that might have jumped him. That dog is sitting there plowing and might have run right by him. And then you get an older dog that's that's seen it comes back and curls off and you're like, Oh, there he is.

You know, and I've got A lot of respect for dogs that just work, you know, and, and, you know, might not be the most nimble, or, you know, the dogs that get beat up all the time. Shrimp would get beat up all the time, and, um, and, and he was, like, he, I really liked that dog, and had a lot of fun hunting with him, and it was cool, it was really cool to watch him and his brother grow up together, and, it's funny, because you put those two in the same box, and like, they would kill each other.

Like, if you left them in the same dog box, they would kill each other. But as soon as they hit the ground, those two are gonna run together every time. [00:27:00] They will catch a hog together, you'll tie the hog, and then they'll fight over the hog. If they don't relay. You know, like, it's, it's, uh, the nuances of dogs, I mean, I just...

Well, I mean, we were just, you, me and, me and Cody and Tanner and you were over by the bay pen wall ago. And, uh, Monica Wheelis, she's sitting here, she doesn't have a headphone on. But, her dog was running, the black and tan dog. And that dog has the same. The same mindset, right? Like that dog knew it was gonna get tossed.

Oh, and we're just My favorite run of the day. I mean he just stood in there. Yeah, it's gonna happen Yeah, and when he got flung across the pin, he hit the ground. There was no hesitation He was right back in the same the same distance. He was wanting Yeah, I mean that's and that's that's a pin dog, right?

But that's still the same mindset that mental toughness that we're talking about that dog Just the the the mental fortitude to really work, you know, and I will say [00:28:00] That entire line off a blitz is is like that. I mean, they're just like my champ dog. He's stubborn as hell He he recently I had I recently got his his front leg amputated he Fractured his humerus, um, about a month and, a month and a half ago, almost now, and I took him hunting the other night because, I mean, that's like, I amputate his leg and he's like balsa and like, he's getting pissed off every time I'm leaving.

Front leg or back leg? Front leg, yeah. Front leg. Um. But I mean, he's a, he's a super well put together dog and obviously he doesn't have the conditioning that he needs. But the guys like, Hey, I've got this war hog coming in. I need some, I need some help. Um, he won't go in the trap. And so I took him and girl Um, because I knew it wasn't gonna be, you know, we really got to get out there and find him.

I knew we pretty much knew where he was going to be, but I wanted an older dog on the ground. Um, [00:29:00] and uh, so they ended up when I took him out of the box, yipped him up into the cornfield. Um, they ran through there, went probably 250 yards, struck bay. And, uh, we They started to come out of the cornfield again, didn't have a bulldog.

I had, I just had my 30 30. And uh, so we, they started coming out of the cornfield. So I took off running around the cornfield and uh, they come out to the road and man, like, it's like the one time in my life that I haven't taken like a crack shot immediately, just thrown the rifle up, blown his head off or, you know, shot him right behind the ear or whatnot.

Like, it was almost poetic what happened when they walked him out of the cornfield. Like, there's big thick woods here, big thick woods there, and there's a road, and like, I'm watching the dog that... I have raised since he's a [00:30:00] puppy with three legs and, uh, you know, watching him go through what he went through, spending the money that I spent to get him back to it.

And, and, like, he's sitting there cat backed, purled up on this hog, and just, and they're walking right down the road. And I didn't even put the rifle on my shoulder. I just sat there and watched him bay. And to me, I was like, man, that, like, that feels really good. And, uh, so I started thinking about it and I was like, I mean, this, it wasn't the hog that we were necessarily after.

It was about a hundred and fifty pound boar hog. And I was like, I'm not going to shoot it. I was like, Oh, I wonder if he'll catch it. I was like, catch it, catch it, catch it, catch it, catch it. And, uh, started talking him up and he went in there and hit it as hard as he could. Missed the ear. He's funny. He only catches ear.

Missed the ear. The hog blew out and I just screamed like I was pissed. And, uh, you know, they went on a race and he ended up swimming across [00:31:00] the, uh, He ended up swimming across the creek, which was flooded into, you know, acres and acres and acres. We got three inches of rain and... Less than 24 hours. So I mean, it just blew up but lost the hog, but I was like, you know driving home I was like man, I owed him that one, you know Just just for being the dog that he's been to me and teaching me everything that he's he's taught me I kind of owed him that one.

I you know at the same time like I told the, you know, you got to appease the landowner and I told the land, I, I was, I had to take the landowner and the property manager hunting and they're like, what happened? Why didn't you shoot him? I was like, oh, I just didn't have a good shot, you know? And I watched the dogs fan for, man, that's the thing.

Like we run for the most part, loose dogs and, and have for quite a few years. And I, you know, a lot of people that run rougher dogs, I always, and I'm always trying to convince them, but I think that like they miss out on this. Like I was telling, um, I think it was [00:32:00] Joey and Nate. I was like, man, like, I don't, I don't want a suicide missile dog.

Like, I like when, when we hunted rough stuff, like we hunted, we hunted our curves with rough stuff and it. We caught so many hogs. I mean, we we piled hogs. You can catch more. Oh, yeah, no doubt But it it felt like we were always just go we got to go. We got to go. We got to go We got to go now frantic, you know, and now we have dogs that'll you know They'll back up in Bay and and like we're not in some super big Hurry, if they, you know, if, if we've got two dogs on the ground and they're not necessarily either one super rough and they're not barking anymore and they've got the hog caught, it's not a bad hog, you know, it's, it's a pig and we can take our time getting up there to them.

Remember when you guys were hunting that tournament here this winter and, uh. I wasn't hunting the tournament, I was just, I was just along for the ride. And, caught quite a few. It [00:33:00] was getting late, like everybody was tired. Tired, tired. Uh, yeah. And, uh. Since I wasn't, yeah, like I wasn't even in on the hunt, so I couldn't even lead a dog or anything.

Right. I felt like, and he took advantage of that. No, I felt so bad. It ain't much different than when we usually go hunting. I felt, I felt so bad. We was walking out and I had three dogs and a pig on my back and Ed's walking beside me like drinking a pop. I was like. This is normal. And what did I tell you?

I was like, I feel like such a piece of shit, like, I can't do anything, but, so we're walking across this creek, Tanner's got three good dogs on a lead, and these things strike in the bottom of this. It's dried out creek, but they strike right there. And Tanner like, we're already so tired, and he looks at me with like this disgusted look on his face, and he's like, what do you think?

And I was like. I would turn them loose and he's like, that's, that's, he goes, yeah, and he like turns them loose. [00:34:00] So, but it goes back. They burn out. They just burn out. They burn. Just cruise. They were like. And they'd already caught three pig, three or four pigs before that. So, I mean, they wasn't fresh, you know.

So, it was hot. They went 1. 63 miles. We were pretty close to the truck when they struck. So we get back to the truck, you know, we're drinking pops, eating some snacks, we're tired. It's like probably three o'clock in the morning. Oh yeah. And uh, so they're bayed. Yeah. And uh, I'm like, let's take a nap. So we slept for probably like two hours while these dogs were bayed.

That's awesome. You know, and then we got up about, about, the sun was almost starting to come up. Right. And we all got up and it's like. Look at the Garmin. It's like, yeah, they're still right there, babe. It's like never moved. I mean, just that's awesome. We're like, let's go catch it. And that's what I think that people with rough dogs miss out on.

You do miss it. And I used to hunt with rough dogs and guys who had rough dogs. And like you say, it was always just like, it's like a job at that point. Like you ran it. [00:35:00] Oh yeah. It's like like total panic. As soon as they get over 500 yards, you're like, I have to go to them. Like I have to get closer to these dogs.

And there's like this serenity that comes with like, Loose dogs, like, I mean, we literally took a nap, because we're like, these dogs can take care of themselves, like, they're not going to get cut, they're going to be smart, stay back, they'll hold it, if they don't hold it, we'll catch them on the next one, you know?

Oh, well, who cares? Like, it's 3 o'clock in the morning, man. But you talk to some people about that, they're like, you guys took a nap while these things were bayed? It's like, yeah. Well, I mean, I think, I think catching hogs is such a big deal to some people, and like, to me, like, Don't get me wrong. If I didn't catch hogs, I would not go.

But, like to me, like, I like going out there and hanging out with my friends and, and watching all the, the other aspects. All the, the cool things that I get to see. I like seeing snakes and, and alligators and stuff like that. Like, I don't like seeing alligators. Screw an alligator. I, I lied on that. But, you know, all the beautiful terrain that you get to see and, [00:36:00] like, Um, that, like, Catching hogs, obviously, I, I, I, if I didn't do it, then I wouldn't go, but, like, to me, like, when you could add everything else into it and you're not in this frantic mode of like, we have to go catch hogs, like, you know, and I still get pissed when we don't catch hogs, but at the same time, it's like, but you also like, so sometimes me and Tanner will go with people who don't normally hunt with us.

There've been countless times where, and I think it's a thing that comes with age. And the length of time you've been hunting. But there are some nights where we go and we don't even get a, like, literally don't even hear a dog bark and we, and we hunt until two o'clock in the morning and then call them in and go home.

And people that are, sometimes people will be with us and like. Tonight sucked. Yeah. And I'll look at Tanner and I'm like, tonight was badass. Right. Because the dogs were out there working. They didn't find anything. And then you'll go sometimes and catch four or five and you'll be like, man, [00:37:00] like, those dogs didn't do what they were supposed to.

They got lucky. Right. Yeah. And it feels bad. A hundred percent. Yeah. You don't feel the same way. Like, give me the good work over the, the reward, you know, I want to see the work. And that's the difference. Like, and I think that comes with age and like. Oh, 100%. When I was, when I was 22 or 21, whenever I started this, like, it was like, we have to catch hogs.

Yeah. And like, dude, we didn't catch that many hogs. Like we, we, we wore out a lot of souls, but we really did have like our dogs that we have now that are, that are five and six years old. Um, they were like eight months to a year old, like they're, they were all young. And, uh, Like, we didn't get, like, we had, we had two really good dogs.

Everything else, like, sucked. Like, we had these young dogs, and like, they're like, we finally, those, those young dogs finally got old enough where, you know, and the two really good dogs that we had were, uh, Ron's Blitz dog, [00:38:00] and then a fella named Adam Blaylock had a dog named Pretty, that was a really, really, really good dog.

Um. But them two found all the hogs and about the time our dogs got like a year and a half old We took the old dogs away and since started making and you know Those dogs really accelerated at a rapid rate when they had to do it for themselves And I think a lot of people miss that like they think okay well this dog this dog ain't that good or this dog is phenomenal like Take out whatever's in front of them, and then you'll, you'll figure out what the dog is, you know?

Yeah, a lot of people do miss that. I remember when I first got... I don't, I don't, I'm terrible with time periods. I don't remember what time, but when I first got a Garmin... So, before that, nothing. Well, I mean, I had a telemetry collar, collars for maybe like two years before I got a Garmin. You couldn't really tell much from that.

I mean, you could tell the general direction they were, and the, and the distance. But, so when, when I [00:39:00] first got a Garmin, I had three dogs. In my mind, I had a number one dog. Right. I mean, if you'd ask, I mean, this dog was, I mean, he did everything. Right. These other dogs were just like, tagging along. I got a Garmin and like within a week I was like, holy cow, like this dog that for years I have thought was the best thing ever.

He's a me too. Son of a gun. He's not even doing it. Yeah. It's just, and he was pretty. That's probably part of it. But I'm like this, his son, this little black dog. This guy's doing all the work. He's doing all the grind work. And it like, my mind like totally flipped. The Houndsman XP podcast is fueled by Joy Dog Food.

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I tell people all the time, my champ dog, he's one of the most interesting dogs. Um, he's, he's close range, you know, he's 100 to 300 yards. Very, very fast on track, runs tracks hard, runs to win. But if he doesn't want to go, he doesn't want to go and he will make you I mean and if you're on hogs He will make you look like a super star man I mean you when he when he was [00:41:00] two to four years old as soon as you touch the hog He was gone.

I mean, if you don't want to catch any more hogs, grab the red dog, don't grab the hog, grab him off of the hog, and then flip the hog. Because as soon as you put your hands on the hog, he's gone. But, as he's gotten older, he's gotten more ornery like his dad, and has just gotten more and more, like, rough, uh, as he's gotten older.

But, he, he's, he's so peculiar man. We were hunting, I was down in Florida with my buddy Connor Edwards and Cody Godwin and it's like, it's, it's the witching hour, just three o'clock in the morning and like, we caught one good boar hog, um, and we're, we're road hunting dogs and uh, one thing about him is he, he always runs in front of the buggy, when he doesn't run in front of the buggy it's time to load him up and go home.

Um, he's, he's tired. I'm tired, boss. Um, but he stopped [00:42:00] like the dogs, every other dog, we have like five dogs on the ground. Every other dog just flies up 150 yards in front of the buggy and you see him take a hard ride. He stops right in front of the buggy and takes a shit right in front of the buggy. And I'm like, what are you doing?

Like you idiot. And like, I acted like I was going to kick him. And he just kind of like looked back at me, run, like, doesn't, doesn't even really like haul up to where the dogs went in. He just kind of trotted up there to where the dogs went in. And then I saw his nose sink to the ground, and he goes left, the other dogs went right.

He goes left, runs in there like 50 yards, and bays a hawk. And I'm like, It's killing me, but that's the dog he is. That's how he works. And if he didn't do it all the time, then, you know, I was hunting with my buddy Kevin Brooks. Or, yeah, I was hunting with Kevin Brooks, and it was the [00:43:00] same thing. Like, Kevin's got really, really good cast dogs.

Like he's got three or four dogs, you know, that, that are very, very good cast dogs. And we cast them and they're out like three quarters of a mile just hunting, just working hard and we're driving down the road and I'm, I'm watching, you know, I, I, I spend a lot of time watching dogs. You know, their mannerisms and things like that.

And I watched the Garmin for how they're running in the woods. And you know, you can just about hone in on when he's, when, when he's fixing to find one, when he's fixing to bet we're driving down the road, his dogs are over there working as hard as they can at like three quarters of a mile. This sugar's at 30 feet in front of the buggy running beside the buggy and we're driving and I don't care.

I was like, hold on, he's fixing to find one. And he's like, this is like one of the the first couple times he didn't really know my dog at that [00:44:00] point This is like one of the first couple times we hunted together and I was like, hang on man. He's fixing to find one He's like, there ain't no hog right here.

I was like, he's fixing to find one, I promise you, and like Goes up runs like 30 yards into this nasty clear cut and goes And I'm like, that's a good hog, because it, you know, his locate, the hound comes out in his locate when he really sits down and it's a ball, like it's a good hog. And I'm like, man, that's a good hog.

And then he had a, uh, he had a rough hog or a rough dog in the, in the box and we dumped him out and, and, uh, went up there and we didn't catch the hog. We got wrecked, but, uh, you know, it was one of those things, he's like. That red dog. He's like, I hate that dog. He's like, I'm like, man, I'm sorry. That's just the dog.

He is like, you know, and I, I will never take him with cast dogs because like he will make me look like an idiot if I take him with cast dogs. Well, I mean, that's the thing. Like everybody has, it's [00:45:00] like, or a lot of people have this mindset that like range, right. Equates to goodness. Right. And that's not, that's not, yeah.

I give me bottom and, and I like dogs. I like dogs that, when they hit the track, that there's a noticeable difference in speed. I want them to really, I want them to really push and put pressure when they're running the hog. I want them to try and stop the hog. I want them to try and get into some sort of contour.

Um, you know, a ditch or something like that. And, and, I, I, I, I, you know, and if it's a long race, I want him to pump the lungs out of the hog. I, you know, um, but I, I agree that, that, that dog, uh, I mean a conservative number on hogs that he's found for me and don't get me wrong, we have a lot of hogs, but a conservative number of hogs that he's found for me is, you know, 500, 600 in, in [00:46:00] his life.

I mean, he's, he's been very, very consistent, um, but he's not what he's, he's not what he's not. You know, I can't make him be some and I, I mean, there was a time where I was like, I'm gonna kill him. I was like, I'm, I'm sick of him. And, you know, and, but he produced, but I had to put him in the, in a position to win.

If I, if I put him in a position to lose, he was gonna lose every time. But if I put him in a position to win 99 percent of the time, he was gonna win. He makes me think, like, growing up, I hunted with my cousins, you know, when I started picking up this stuff. He had this dog called Rabbit, and that's how he was.

See how sometimes he would cast and just go with them other dogs, no problem? Right. But there's nights that them other dogs would be out there, 800, and, and strike. And he'd still be milling around the truck. Well, he'd make you so mad at him, for a little while, then you forget about him, you know. Well, you go catch a pig, whatever, and, where the hell's Rabbit?

You [00:47:00] know. And, you get to looking at Garmin, he's, you know, 800 the other way, babe. And, behind somebody's house, or something, you know. And, you gotta sneak back there and get him. But, I mean, that's how he was. You were not gonna make him do anything, he didn't want, he didn't want to do. And, I'll never forget, he was a black dog, and, he just had like a high trot.

He'd high trot every good, like a curled tail, curled up real high. My man. You know, go, go do something, you know, but by the time you forgot about him, he produced, he would produce and, and, uh, we always laughed. You never said anything about home or the house or nothing, because like I said, he was close enough to hear you say it, but you're probably going to be there till daylight.

If he hears you say, let's go to the house, because I mean, he knew what that meant and he knew he was going home and he would, he would go wherever he had to go. And he'd find a pig then. We, we, I was in Texas before the May Downsville Bay and, uh, we were hunting with, with Garrett Piku [00:48:00] and, uh, I have an old lady hunter out there and she, she didn't, so when, when I first met her, um, My, my girl Jip was in heat, and Champ acted like an idiot, like, I mean, like an idiot.

Like, I, I, I left him at the house for a month because he would not hunt, even if she wasn't there. You know, she wouldn't be there, he's acting like an idiot, he's fighting everybody in the box. Um, but I left him. So she didn't really know the dog. I told her, I told her about the dog and she's, she's really sharp on dogs.

She's, she's got like 14 dogs, so she, she's, she's really sharp on dogs. And, uh, we're out there and Garrett had casted some of his dogs and like the same situation, they're out there just pounding, just working, working, working 500, 600 yards out there, just running loops, circle, circle, circle, circle. And, uh, I hear something like crunch in the woods.

Behind us, like a hundred yards from us. That sounded like a hog. I was like, that didn't really sound like a [00:49:00] deer. And I heard it again, and I was like, Y'all wanna catch a hog? And, uh, I had Champ on the box. And, uh, she was like, Ah, put that red dog up. He ain't gonna do nothin I was like, no, I promise you, like, we're fixin to catch a hog.

I took him out. Walked him over there and I said, just get in there. He run up there a hundred yards. Oh, just, I mean, and, and that was, that's the dog. He is. And, and he has done so much for me in this because it is taught me a, a lot of patience. And it's, it's, it's taught me really to not try and make a dog something that he's not.

You know, I, I, I'm, had I started him casting, he'd be a, he'd be a fine cast dog, but I started him walk hunting. He is what he is and I'm not going to make him what he's not. And it doesn't matter how frustrated and pissed off I get at him. He's not going to do what he doesn't want to do. You know, I like, you know, I mean, my, my personal preference is [00:50:00] long range, free cast dogs, right.

Free cast mean in the. We're not turning them on a track. We're just going to a place we think we can succeed. Right. We're just turning them loose. But we's hunting Monday night. Me, Tanner, Cody, and Cory. And the one fault, the one common fault that I see with long range cast dogs is that some of them tend to Race till they get about a mile deep and then start on it.

Right. So this, this kid, Corey, who hunts with us, he's real quiet kind of guy. He's fun. He's funny as all get out, but he doesn't hardly ever say anything. Right. So me and Taryn turned some dogs loose. They get deep real fast. And then we both start telling each other, like, yeah, this is starting to look like something.

Corey leans over our shoulder and goes, are they done racing?

But, but, and [00:51:00] that, like I say, that's, that is the one common fault that I see with long wind results. I mean, yeah, they just, they burn. They want to get distance and they want to get distance quick, fast and in a hurry, and then they get to that point where they like you. It's just like you said, they start hunting.

Yeah. You know, but they do pass up augs. Right. Right. And it kind of translates, you know, that's kind of how the coon dog, competition coon dog world is going. They want those. Yeah. That's one, that's one aspect. I, I, since we started boards and broads, like we, we've really tried to get into, you know, coon dogs and squirrel dogs.

And like, we just try and support all aspects of, of hunting dogs, you know? Um, but I, the coon dog world is a completely different world for me. And I, I still, I, you know, I, I've got some buddies at coon hunt. Um, but it's, it's just one of those things that I, I don't know anything about it. And that's, you know, uh, I mean, you said you, when you were a kid, you had squirrel dogs.

[00:52:00] And, uh, that's one thing we're going to do with this podcast is we're not just, I mean, we're hog hunters, so it's probably going to be 75 percent hog dogs, but the thing, I mean, I hunt with a lot of people. And, like, if you go hunting with a coon dog guy. Right. Go coon hunting. You'll, you'll learn something.

You're gonna learn something that's gonna translate straight into hog hunting. A hundred percent. And, and I've noticed over the years that, that I, I still... I believe, and it makes some people mad, but I believe that the best hog hunters are people that started in a different dog sport and then... Well, it makes you, it makes you, uh, have an inclination to being open.

About what can help you succeed. Yeah, um, you know, it's like I tell all the people people all the time that the the two most influential books that I've read on that influenced the way I think about dogs and hunting [00:53:00] dogs are trained by hound dog by advance and brave by

Charles, uh, Mathis, you know, and, and those, those two books, they have nothing to do with their cat hunting books, but the, the perspective that those guys have, like when you can, when you can read that and, and make it applicable to the area. That you want it to be applicable to, like that's going to benefit you no matter what.

I, I think one of the biggest issues with hog hunters is that we, we all get very closed minded about the way we do things and, and things like that. And that's been another thing that's been so influential to me is I've been blessed to hunt in. Like, my little girl, Jip, she's, uh, not even a year and a half old.

She's almost a year and a half old. She's caught, she, she has found and bayed hogs [00:54:00] in seven different states. You know, and, and, that's not to, to be, however. But, every different geographical location and every different type of dog that I can hunt with, that's going to teach me something that helps me be more successful.

You know, um, we hunted, we hunt a good bit up in Tennessee with my, my, one of my brothers, Josh Stander, um, but he, he runs bear and hogs, um, and, and that's, like that terrain. I, I've hunted a lot of places, but that terrain is, like, probably... In my opinion, the toughest area to succeed because everything up there, like they, they're still very heavy Russian up there.

Every hog you catch, you can see he's heavy Russian and those hogs run and run and run and run and [00:55:00] run. And the bears are the same way. You might have a bear that trees in, you know, A 30 second race. But typically they're gonna run and run and run and run and you're like, you're like, oh yeah, they're, they're two miles over here.

How long is it gonna take us to get there? Uh, we gotta go around Tallywacker Ridge, and uh, we gotta get down on Pecker Creek, and, and, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it'll take us 45 minutes, like, I mean, cause you have to drive around these mountains, and you're driving for two hours to get 700 yards to these dogs.

I mean, that's what me and Tanner deal with, like. You've hunted in Oklahoma before? I haven't hunted in Oklahoma before. So where we're sitting right now is just, you can see like, a couple miles, there's hardly any trees, it's flat, and that's what people think when they think of Oklahoma. Where me and Tanner live in the northeast corner, like, we're closer to Tennessee than we are to this.

And it takes, and it takes a, Certain [00:56:00] type of dog, right? Oh, yeah, and that's that's that's what I've told people I was like if you think you have a hog dog put them in that environment. You'll figure out if they're a hog dog That's the Houndsman XP podcast network is powered by Cajun lights All of your lighting needs for hunting can be taken care of at Cajun Lights.

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That roo dog came from up there and uh, one quick story about roo. It's one of the most impressive things that I've ever seen a dog do. But he, Josh typically hunts the Cherokee National Forest, which is uh, roughly 325, [00:58:00] 000 acres or something. And so he runs bear and hogs. We were hunting some private land, a cornfield.

We had a bunch of young dogs on the ground. The young dogs ran down to a river, the Hiawassee River. Jumped a hog on the edge of the river, and, but they didn't see him go into the river. So, they kind of lost him. Didn't, didn't really know where he went in or whatnot. Didn't know if he went in. They're, they're all running up and down the river and whatnot.

And Rue was like 500 yards the other way. And, uh, he like, whoo, come here. Rue comes down there, he's like, shh, get across there. And this river's like probably 75 yards wide, and it's like 40 degrees, I mean it's cold. And uh, Josh goes, shh, get across there, and Rue like, sits back and looks at Josh and he's like, come on boss, like are you serious?

And Josh goes, shh, Rue, get across there. This dog jumps in the river. [00:59:00] Swims across this 40 degree river, runs up there 800 yards in his bait. Like, and I'm like, man, isn't it crazy? Like, it's like, it takes it. I mean, you've got to spend time with the dog, but it's. You know, he obviously never taught that dog a command for swimming a river.

Yeah. But, if you spend enough time with the dog, They understand. They understand what you're asking them to do. And man, the crazy thing about Rue was, is like, he was like a borderline house dog. Like, he would, like, I would, we would be going bear hunting or something, and Josh had hunted this dog like two weeks straight.

You know, taking off Sundays to go to church, and he had hunted him two weeks straight. And Rue, like, when he got older, before he died, like, he'd get stoved up real bad. But I would go in the bathroom at like four o'clock in the morning and take a piss before we left. And like, Rue would like... Climb out from up under his vanity [01:00:00] his bathroom vanity and like stretch and just and like you would hear just And you're like there's no way that dog's gonna hunt today There's no way and josh would let him outside to go take a piss or whatnot And he would be sitting on the back of the truck every time that's been like the theme for the last Two days since we've been here tanner and cody giving me hell When you're that old and your bones crack, you're going to get up and get in the truck too.

Oh man, that's the thing. You know, it's like hunting, and I, I've, I've kind of refra I've kind of slid back a little bit on it because, like, like I said, like we get to go a lot of different places and we do a lot of different things and we do, we're trying to get You know, more and more so into the bait side of things and, and just supporting those that support us.

But man, used to be like, we'd be like, all right, if we get there at two o'clock in the morning, like we can hunt until [01:01:00] eight and then we'll just go to the bay. And then like, once the bay is over, we'll go hunt again and then we'll go back for the next day of the bay. And then we'll drive home and like you get home and you're like, oh gosh, how old are you?

I'm 28. Yeah. So you guys are about the same age. Yeah. I'm 50. But I mean like, that's it. Okay. The calendar says I'm 50. You've already said you're not good with time. Yeah. You know, sometimes the body tells me 60, 65. Really? It ain't, it ain't really how you get around. It's just your attitude about midday. I grumpy, you know, I do get grumpy.

And, like, we were going out to, uh, Downsville for the 2 Dog World Cup here last month or whatnot, and, uh, Ryan's like, he's like, and, like, the thing is, is I tell, I tell people all the time, like, if I break down between here and, or, or between [01:02:00] Georgia and West Texas, like, I know enough people, like, I, I might not have ever met these people, but I'm like, I, I, I can make a phone call and in two hours somebody there, somebody will be there, you know, that I know.

So like, everybody's like, man, y'all need to come huntin y'all need to come huntin y'all need to come huntin y'all need to come huntin and uh, so we're going out to Downsville and everybody's like, hitting us up like, run some dogs. I would love to. And Ryan, Ryan's like, man, what do you, what do you want to do?

And I was like, dude, to be completely honest, like. I just want to chill for a little while, man. Like, I don't, I like, I don't want to just grind for these three days. And, like, we've gotten to where we are because we grind, but at the same time, like, sometimes it's nice just to kind of sit back and just take everything in and just have, like, a relaxed trip where we just have a good time.

We had, like, twenty of our buddies come out there and, uh, to watch Old [01:03:00] Twelve, and, uh, we had guys from West Tex or, like, South Texas. Florida and South Carolina all came out. We all met in Shreveport, went out and had a good time the night before, had a great time at the bay. And like, that's what it's about.

Like, like I enjoy doing that. Like, don't get me wrong. If you give me the choice between that and hog hunting, most of the time I'm going to pick hog hunting, but there are certain times where I'm like, man, it's just nice to kind of hang out with the boys. It's a different vibe. And that's what I was telling Tanner.

Sitting here today, I was like, you know, this is a small bay. Right. In Oklahoma. And 15, 20 years ago, there was one of these almost every weekend. Right. And like in Oklahoma. And that was the way it was in Georgia. Um, when, so, so Ron and I really kind of just got started into the bay pen. Like, I guess when we started Boars and Broads, like we had never been to a bay pen before we started.

And then we went to Hickory Crossing one time. And, uh, at that time, my, Georgia was kickin [01:04:00] like, we had Pistol Creek, Hickory Crossing, Broughton Island, and all three of them were running bays consistent. I mean, there was, there was just about two a month. And, and now, like, the, the way they've done our testing and everything, with that, that pseudorabies and, and brucellosis and everything, like, They're really struggling.

So we try and help those guys. We take Mr. Mark at Hickory Crossing. Because he's the closest to us. We take him a lot of hogs that we catch. You know, spunky boar hogs that we catch. Just so he can, you know, continue. Because, like, it's, it's, It's a different discipline of dog.

that you see in these bay pens, but like hunting rough dogs for so long, like not necessarily rough dogs, super rough dogs, because our stock isn't super rough. We don't have any no bark dogs or anything like that. They're all going to bay by themselves. But typically, like if it's not a, a good [01:05:00] size warthog, by the time we get there, they're caught.

So that was really the thing that, that kind of brought me into the bay pen. And. Um, was, was actually getting to watch the dogs work and seeing their nuances and seeing the, seeing their movement and things like that, like, that's really cool to me. And like, I think it's really cool to other people because like all the stuff that we put on, on, on the internet on Bay competition, like you put it in 60 frames for a second and then you slow it in half where people can really see how their dogs are maneuvering and you're like, man, that's impressive.

Oh yeah. I like, I mean, I like the social aspect of the Bay Penn and that, and that's what I was getting at, like, a long time ago in Oklahoma, at least here. I mean, in Texas it was different, in Louisiana it was different, but in Oklahoma, hog bays were kind of like a get together. Right. Like, every, everybody that went there, all they did was hog hunt.

Right. There was no, in Oklahoma, there was no [01:06:00] Bay Penn people. Right. There was nobody that just did that. That would be, that would blow our mind back then. So. I still view bay pins in that vein. So like when I go to bays, I enjoy myself, but it's the social aspect. And we do the same thing. And I tell people all the time, like, like we go to these bay pins and whatnot.

And, uh, like, 95 percent of the talk outside of the Bay Pen is about Hulk Hutton. It's about Hulk Hutton. Like, we're not talking about Bay Pen dogs while we're sitting at the truck having a cold beer. Like, we're sitting there talking about Hulk Hutton and how we can put some more bacon on the table. And, you know, you get to bounce ideas off of people and, you know, you get to see how people with different perspectives, you, um, then you do things and like, that's just what it's like.

Find, like, finding a way to gather knowledge and then pulling all that knowledge back to yourself and then making it applicable in your geographical location. Well, we, like, in Oklahoma, you know, back [01:07:00] in the day, what was commonplace was so we would sit here at a bay like this all day, and then the bay would end, sun would start to go down, and then everybody paired off.

Like, so, I would like. I'd be talking to somebody and they're like, Hey man, yeah, we'll load up and let's head to my house and we'll grab these dogs and we'll go hunting over here. And everybody did that. Like everybody left the bay in their separate directions. Went to go catch some hogs. With people they don't normally hunt with.

And it was really, I mean, it was really cool. And, and not to dislike the way the Bay Pins have come today. Because it's just a different thing. Right. You know. It, it's, I think the money aspect is a good thing. But Joey and I were talking about it on the way out here. Joey from Dixie Doggers. We were talking about it on the way out here.

Like, you know, and I, I never really got to experience this. But he's like, one of the, one of the, the biggest reasons that I drove 14 hours to come out here. is that Rusty had a Woodstock [01:08:00] class. And I think that's, like, I think that's so important, because, like, when you, when you bring, and, you know, I've had ten or twelve people that, that ran their Woodstocks, and they're like, hey man, how do you think they did?

I'm like, Dude, they did great. Like, you're, you're putting them in a, uh, uh, area that they're not necessarily, like, they're not prepared for. You're, you're, you're kind of putting them outside of their comfort zone and you get to see, you know, the, and, and, apply pressure. Right. And, and, and then people will be like, well, you know, in the woods he doesn't do that.

I'm like. Exactly. He's a woods dog. Like, he's not in the woods, man. Exactly. You don't, like, don't get pissed off at him because you put him in a, like, it's like. Last night we were sitting out here and like we see Elon Musk UFO line and like That's like me being up there in that line of UFOs and like expecting me to succeed and do something, right?

Yeah, like I don't know what's going on But like so we got here yesterday a little bit late, but [01:09:00] we didn't watch much of the you know Quote unquote pro band, but when the the woods class That's what I'm getting at like so 15 20 years ago in Oklahoma all every bay was it that's all it was was a wood class And I get, I find, I'll go watch the woods class.

Right. To me it's more, I get more enjoyment out of it. I agree. But, uh. Let's, you know, we watched your 12 dog run in the woods class and it was entertaining. 12 is peculiar, man. And let's switch over to that and talk about that. Alright, so 12 came from a boy named Trey Moya out in, uh, in Runge, Texas. We went out there and hunted with those boys, uh, Trey Moya, Josh Blosky, um, and, uh, Jonathan Torres.

And we had never met those guys and before Earls, we drove out there and, and, and went hunting. The last night we were there, we were sitting at the steakhouse, um, just having a good time, having some drinks, eating steaks. [01:10:00] And Trey's like, man, he's like, I got this dog. He's like, I hate him. I hate him. He's, he, he, he's a redose blackout Kerr.

What is that? ? And I'm like, and like, what are you talking about? Sounds like it's gonna be rough. . Like, he's like, he's like, no. He's like, he's a blackout curve, but he's like, he's pink. Like, I don't like him. He doesn't hunt the way I want him. And I was like, you know, like, what does he do well? And he's like, well, he rigs really well.

And I'm like, okay, well, I can make some use out of that. And you know, like, I, I, I prefer to get dogs from like eight months old. Like, I feel like I can really put a lot of good work into them when they're eight months old, getting dogs that are three years old. I'm like, man, like, I don't know what they've been doing with them and things like that.

And it, like, I try and translate everything into my program, but I'm like, and he's like, man. He can pay too. So twelve is three year old? Yeah, he's like three and a half, almost four now. When you got him? Yeah. Um, he's like, man, he can [01:11:00] pay too. And I'm like, do you have any videos of him? Cause we were going back to Earl's and uh, he's like He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he, he bayed one time, and I was like, so he's been in up here one time, but he's, he bays really good, I like, I've heard this story before, and, uh, he pulls out his video from like, he's like, uh, I think the bay pin was like, El Perro Loco or something, and I was like, yeah, I know that bay, and, uh, He pulls out his phone and he, like, shows me, like, this two minute video of Twelve just laying it down.

And, the dog's, uh, the dog's name was not Twelve when, uh, when he was talking about it, like, it was, like, Frank or something. It was, like, a human name. Like, he just, like, I don't even remember what the dog's name was when I got it. But, uh, he was, he was, like, uh... And I was like, man, how much do you want for him?

Cause I watched his dog and he ran a perfect in a two minute bay. And, uh, you know, his partner messed up a couple of times, but he ran a perfect. And I was like, man, that's, that's impressive [01:12:00] for him never being in a pen. And I was like, how much do you want for me? It's like, ah, nah, man, you could have him.

We'll go get him right now. So we get the truck, 7 grown men in a Chevy 2500 crew cab. It's not even a full cab, it's like a crew cab. We have 7 grown men, 3 in the front, 4 in the back. And, uh, we're driving to go get 12. Long story short, we got pulled over and, uh, we had some open containers in the truck.

How many? Uh, quite a few. Let's just leave it at that. We had quite a few open containers in the truck and quite a few unopened containers in the truck. And, uh, we're sitting out there and man, we're all fixing like, we're down in the dumps. Everything started off so great and now we're all fixing to get open container tickets.

We're sitting on the back of the truck and We're just sitting there like, what are we doing? And, uh, [01:13:00] so the other, so he called, the, the fellow that pulled us over calls in another guy cause he's got seven grown men that, you know, you can tell, like, they're a little rough and he, you know, I guess he got concerned about that, but seven grown men climb out of the truck and we're sitting on the back of the truck and we're all kind of like down in the dumps at this point, like, man, this sucks.

The other cop pulls up, and, uh, we're sitting on the back of the truck, and my buddy Jonathan Torres was there, and we're sitting on the back of the truck, and this other cop, like, goes up to the other guy, starts talking to him for a minute, and, uh, and he had all our IDs, so it wasn't really like that we could run away or anything at this point, so like, we were stuck, and, uh, he comes back, and he's like, The other guy walks up and he's like, Mr.

Torres. Oh, great. Somebody's got a warrant for their arrest. And I was like, [01:14:00] this is phenomenal. Like it just keeps getting better. Turns out it was Jonathan's cousin and he didn't even know the guy. We get off pretty, like, I mean, we get off scot free. Don't even get a written warning. We just get a verbal warning.

He's like, God, it's like, and we told him the whole story, like, we were there from Georgia or whatnot, and you know, they were, both of those guys were super cool, and, and, and the thing is, is they did their job. Um, so it wasn't like they let us get off with murder or anything like that, but, um, They, they understood the situation.

They're like, ah, it's like, come on now. Like, like, it's good that y'all are having a good time, but y'all can't do this. Can't have this much of a good time. Yeah, you can't have this much fun. And, uh, so, we're going to get this dog. Ernie or whatever his name was when we were going to get him and, uh, Josh Stano looks back and he's like, we ought to name that dog 12 and I was like, that sounds good.

So we named him 12 and, and took him back. What's 12 come from? [01:15:00] Um, the police. Is that code for police? Here comes 12. It's kind of hood. I can understand why you don't know what that means from Oklahoma, but yeah, in Georgia then like 12 is like, Oh, Popo's coming, here comes 12. So that like, that's, that's where that comes from.

And uh, he's, he is a very. Peculiar dog he's he's he's I tell you a funny story So the first time I ever met her Hunter the first time I ever met her was at Hickory Crossing and I we were running one dog and the only the only thing I baited him in was to dog and the only thing I baited him in was Earl's and He did really well at Earl's Had two really good runs, but you know He had been [01:16:00] in the woods and then I ended up taking him to Hickory Cross and I was telling her, I was like, man, I got one dog that nobody knows about.

He's, he's pretty good. I was like, he's like, he's going to jam. We go in there and like The lights or it's dark, but the lights are on and like I'm fully anticipating this dog Just going in there and laying it down. I'm thinking positive. Oh, man. I was like, I was jacked up. I'm like, hey, I'm fixing to win with the dog nobody knows about I Let him go He runs in there goes.

Oh Marks two times turns around it comes back to me and I was like And I'm like, embarrassment like starts to creep up and I'm like, I'm so embarrassed. I'm so embarrassed. That's the other thing about Bay Pins is like, everybody is watching you. Oh yeah, and like, like I told Earl, I've been hyping this dog up.

I'm like, he's gonna jam. Like, [01:17:00] watch this video from Uncle Earl. He's jamming. And he goes in there and goes,

Turns around, looks at me, and comes back to me, and I'm like, Not so much. And I'm so mad right now. But, at the same time, I put him in a position that he's never been in before. And, honestly, the woods class here was the only real reason I brought him up here. And I, that was, that was the one other time that he had ever run one dog.

He's run two dog a lot and he's, he, he, he, he's run with Hunter's dogs and we've had some phenomenal runs. We took, we, we tied for fourth in, uh, the amateur in May. In the, in the, in the novice two dog in May and uh, out of, you know, 90 runs, you know, he's, he's a, he's a good two dog, but I didn't know if he would do one dog.

[01:18:00] So that's why I brought him up here because we're having a bay in Georgia in two weeks and they're not having a two dog and it's 80 entry versus a 30 entry. So I just spent like 500 in fuel and hotel and everything to get out here. So I could see if he'd run in one dog for 80, but we got to say you won first dog.

Yeah, we, we, uh, we actually, we won, uh, the woods dog class and, uh, and he, he did really well and he came out today. I put him in the pro class and he beta 10. And, uh, that's Mr. Ed's, that's not mine. Um, but he bathed really well in the, in the first round, ended up Baying a, a 10 and made the Bay off out. His, uh, his, uh, seven seven dogs made the bay off in the, in the pro class.

And, uh, he went out there and they were already like, I was the last run in the bay off and there were already like three tens and he went out there and the wind picked up and the wind was blowing out of from where [01:19:00] the hogs are and he went out there and was laying it down and that wind picked up and he picked his head up one time and then he did it again and I was like alright hog out because I'm still going to run him in two dog Yeah, I'm sure the people can hear on our microphones that it's pretty windy out here on these planes.

It's very windy out here on these planes, but it is nice. But that, and that affects woods dogs more than pin dogs. If they get, they get scent drifting off the back pins or sometimes during a bay in the back, in the working pins, they'll be moving around and squeal or something. And that affects woods dogs more.

Those woods dogs, like, it's, it's funny because in the woods you always have to be on alert because you never know when you might bay a rally and, or you, you might break one hog off of a rally and then... All the rest of the rally comes up and whoops you. Or, I mean, or, so you take a dog, like, Tanner has a really good dog.

The, so, [01:20:00] she, you know, her and two other dogs might bay a hog. Right. Well, at least my thinking. So in her mind, they bay that hog. If she gets wind of another hog. Right. She's liable to leave those. Right. Two dogs behind her to bathe. That's taken care of. I'm gonna go get that one. And I think in the pen, a lot of woods dogs have that same mentality.

Yeah, for sure. It takes, it takes a judge with a different mindset. Right, because, because a woods... No. Uh, to me, if my woods dog sits there and bays a nine five and the five times he looked out, we're looking back at me for the catch dog like, hey boss, that's what I got him right here. That's exactly what I was going to say because like I'm not a bay pin guy.

I mean like, I can count on one hand as many times as I [01:21:00] put my dogs in a bay pin somewhere. You know what I mean? So this is like a carnival. You know what I mean? They don't know what the hell is going on. Yeah. Like, even like starting my pups that I raise, I try to mock them. Yeah, I do the same thing. No pin.

I got a creek at my house and I got, and I put a pig down at the creek and just kind of ease them that way. It's puppies, you know, sending a dog that knows something what they're doing. Right. So, like it's... Yeah, I mean, our dog's big. Don't even go in and pin it at the house. Yeah, so like if, if I put my good dogs in, yeah, they're gonna bay.

I mean, I know they're gonna bay, but if I'm that close, I promise you she's gonna go, hey. Hey boss, he's, he's right here. Uh, go ahead and send that bulldog. We got him stopped. You know what I mean? Yeah, hey boss, my job is done. Yeah. You know, and, and guys get frustrated at it. And I'm like, man, like, you have to understand, don't get me wrong, like, 12 is one of the dogs that can do it.

He never goes in a bay pen unless it's competition. Like, I hunted him [01:22:00] Wednesday before we came out here. I left, I hunted Wednesday morning and left, I left my house Thursday morning at 2 o'clock to go meet Joey and those guys. Like, if you flip his ears right now, they're briar ridden. Like, he, he, he doesn't, It just, it just, for some reason, it translates.

Now, I was talking about Champ earlier. The first time I ever ran Champ in a bay pin, he tied for second the Woodstock option at Earl's. So they don't have a true Woodstock class, but they have a Woodstock option that you can get on your dog. He tied for second in it. And he was, he was pretty good in the bay pen and then all of a sudden like one day he realized like those hogs can just walk out of that gate.

And so he'd bay hard, bay hard, bay hard, that hog would walk over by the gate and he'd just turn around and come back to me. He's like, my job's done. I mean I think like, I mean it's kind of a hornet's nest. [01:23:00] But I'll go ahead and hit it with a stick. But, whether it's coon hunting, hog, hog baying, whatever.

Bay pens originated because hog hunters started griping in the woods like, my dog is better than your dog. Right. So, a bay pen was invented to find out who had the better hog. It's a way to quantify things that can't really be quantified. But after, even in the coonutting world, same thing. But after you take that certain num, a level away from that.

Right. So. What do you, what do you think the root of, of getting away from where it started is? Well, because, because people start breeding dogs for a competition. Right. When you start breeding dogs, you know what I mean, you take a pen and see who's got the better hog dog. Right. Money starts coming into play and then people go, a bell goes off.

Yeah. They're good dog breeders. Yeah. They know what they're [01:24:00] doing, but they're like I'm gonna breed dogs for this competition, right? And that's when the competition be a coon hunting right hog bays, whatever That's when the dogs start splitting off right and that's find a way to win. Yeah, and at the at the point we're at For the most part, and there's exceptions, but the dogs have split so far apart that they're now two separate things.

Right. And, and that's what I love the most about the, uh, the woods class is you get to see dogs that are comparable. Like, you're, you're not, you're not watching. So, pretty much everywhere has a woods option that you can buy. Right. But, you're, you're still baying against pro dogs, and that can be pretty disheartening for people that don't really understand it.

It's like. Well, why didn't my dog do that? Your dog's not bred to do that. Your dog is bred to go hunt in the woods and be successful in the woods, and you can have a phenomenal, uh, [01:25:00] woods dog that doesn't do anything in the pen. And you can have a phenomenal pen dog that doesn't do anything in the woods.

Yeah, and I'll go out on a limb and probably sound stupid, but maybe history will affirm it, but I think the future of hog baying Is in the woods class. I, I agree. I go, I, I think, I think it has to be. It's kind of, it's kind of the past. Right. And then we kind of got this middle phase where they don't even have any place.

Right. Like, the woods class is just about. Two to three years old. Right. And before that, a Woodstock had no place. Right. And now they're starting to have a place. I, I think it's got to be, I think it's got to kind of revert back to that because otherwise you're going to find your, yourself. Kind of [01:26:00] getting into a stagnated point.

Yeah, you know and Anything in any area of life stagnation is not good. Well, I mean, I mean and not to diss the Gooses right and the Clydes of the world because those are Phenomenal, right? It's like anybody who knows at all. Yeah can watch those dogs and go. Holy shit Yeah, like that's amazing But on the flip side like I cannot like I didn't go to Downsville this last time, right?

And like me and Monica were sitting here last night and I was like, you know, two days before Downsville, I could have taken out in a pen and paper and wrote them down, written down 10 dogs names and they're going to be in the top 10 every time and every time and it's not to take away from those dogs because they're amazing.

They do exactly what they're supposed to. But it's stagnation and the same dogs win every time. Right.[01:27:00]

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And to get back to the woods deal, like yesterday, those hogs are tough. Yeah, they were, they were a little small, but they were spunky and, and, you know, they, they were good hogs. I mean, he, he purposely did that. They were spunky enough, like if you get in there with that board, yeah, you better stay on your feet.

I mean, like, they're going to come hit your board. Did y'all see the run this morning when, oh, you, we did that girl, that girl almost got ate up and the hog almost got out. He almost hit a two for one. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I mean, you can't, I mean, that's the thing, like they're, A hog is more dangerous in that pen than he is in the woods.

Oh, 100%. Because he has no escape route. Right. So, like, it's a... Well, he's got one escape route, and he has to get through you to get there. Through you. But, I mean, it's fight or flight. Right. Well, basically, in a pen, you've taken flight out of the equation, so [01:29:00] all you've got left is fight. Yeah. You better be on your toes.

Well, like, when a pig comes at them, obviously, yeah. I mean, like we just said, they're... the flight's out of the situation, but when that pig comes and balls them up, yeah, they better loop out. Right. I mean, like, if they're a woods dog, yeah. They don't need to be six inches away from his nose, bark, came in the face like Right.

Taking it. And they're not gonna do it for very long in the woods. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, loop out. I mean, before they get unli. Yes. You know? Exactly. If you get, if you exactly get beat up too much in the woods, you get unli. Yeah. You know, like, you gotta be smart about it, you know, and that's what goes back to the brain.

Just like you said, you know your dog. No, they'll, they'll go out that gate. Yeah. You know, when he comes to you. Yeah. He's like, oh man, he's, that's a brain. You know what I mean? Just. Like, the whole time we've been sitting here, you said that you can, your dog's the bae, yeah they're rougher, but on a bigger pig, y'all get in there close, talk them into catching them.

Do you know how rare that is? You know what I mean, like? 90 percent of the world, it's either kamikaze, we're gonna go in there and catch, and get beat [01:30:00] up, or they're gonna be like ours. Yeah, we want, we want them to set back and bay, because it might be 45 minutes to an hour and a half if we can get to them.

And I think, honestly, I think a lot of... A lot of the bay until we get there and tell you to catch came from, uh, came from cows. Mm hmm. From, from having cow stock. Yeah, and it comes from time. Right. And time with them. Right, exactly. Because we, so, um, our dog's mother wasn't even a hog dog. She was a cow dog.

But I think a, a lot of that correlation, I know, I know some boys, um, that, that have Cow dogs in Florida. She has cow dogs and I think I don't know what it is about it But that correlation you you can you can kind of finagle those dogs into doing what you want them to do But it does take a lot of time [01:31:00] and it's just like if I take my dogs and I tie a hog I can put my dogs in the same buggy in the back of the buggy with a tied hog and they're not gonna touch it But that took a lot of time.

Exactly. It took a lot of time and people like Well, I, I don't want, if I got, if I got a dog that will get off a hog before I put a brake stick on him, then I don't want him, he ain't game enough for me. I'm like, okay man, you're just tearing up the hog at that point, you know. And you can ask Ed, like my.

Like mine, you get them out of the box, they're twisting your arm, you know, Ed and Cody always gripe at me because they're about to break their fingers, you know, they want to go, you know, and I'm not going to whoop them for that, obviously, um, but it's a deep, deep well you can get into because hawk hunters haven't been breeding for that for very long.

And how many different breeds do they use to hawk hunt? Right. You know, on your coon hunting aspect, how long have coon hunters been breeding dogs? [01:32:00] Yeah. Yeah. Not so much for us. Yeah. It's, it's, it's. It's funny because it's, and I think people kind of overlook things and I really think it's about finding what works best for you and, and finding dogs that work in an applicable way for, for what, what, what you want them to be, you know?

And there, there are enough dog breeds out there that you can, you can pretty well find no matter where you're at, no matter the way you hunt, you can pretty much find what you want. Something to fit you. Right. And, and I think a lot of people really try to, um, overthink that and force dogs, they're like, I'm going to get my black mouthed cur to free cast two miles.

Like, that's not what he's for, man. That's not, that's not what the dog is bred to do. Um, and not saying there's some that don't do that, but those are anomalies. Exactly. Those are anomalies. [01:33:00] And, uh, that's just, that's just what a lot of people don't understand, I guess is what I'm getting at. Well, and they, you know, that's like, we were talking about it all the way up here, you know, the, the top Bay Penn dogs are typically going to be Catahoula.

That doesn't mean that you can't have an American Pit Bull Terrier that can go in there and Bay a 10, but if you're trying, if you're trying to breed for consistency in the Bay Penn, you're not going to breed American Pit Bull Terriers. Your great grandpa might have had an American Pit Bull Terrier that won.

10 hog bans in 1982, but if you're looking for consistency, you're not going to breed American Pit Bull Terriers, you're going to go to Catahoulas, or Black Mouse, or whatever else. But, um, I think people get really enthralled with the anomaly. Versus consistency. I think when you, when you start to turn towards consistency and, um, you get a lot more production [01:34:00] and you get a lot more satisfaction out of it versus looking for the anomaly.

Well, like me and Tanner, we're talking with Chris Powell on the first podcast and he's a coon dog guy, right? And you know, he's like, you know, if you're not getting 80 percent consistency out of your your litters, right? And then you're breeding wrong And we kind of had to be like hold up, but you know, that's coon dog world, right?

But in the hog dog world like we are like infants Yeah compared to coon hunters fox hunters bear hunters, you know

And we haven't really gotten that like, yeah, we got black mouse, we got Catahoula's, but still, they're really just, they're still really just cow dogs, stock dogs. We have not, they have not transformed, transformed in what I would call pig dogs, where you can have a litter and get 80 percent consistent dogs.

And it's just a totally, I mean, it's apples and oranges, you know, cause like,[01:35:00]

And especially in that Catahoula. And I first started hog hunting, it was, uh, Catahoulas. Yeah. They were just cowbred Catahoulas. And like you were talking about, I got it the first 10 years I hunted, I didn't own a bulldog. Right. And I didn't have to talk them into catching. Right. They might, they would loose bay for maybe 45 minutes until I got there.

Right. I got where I could see the pig and where they could see me, more importantly. Boston's here. When they saw me, they were like a pack of piranhas. Like, I didn't need a bulldog. The best way I put it is when I've got old enough to realize that when I started, my bay dogs were catchier than my catch dogs, you know.

And that was, that's just the truth, I mean, I was like, what was I doing now, but.

Yeah, I think they posted the two dog run order. [01:36:00] Will you go check that for me please? Thank you.

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of hog hunters that like, you know, don't get into the bay pen. And I'm, I've been an advocate for umpteen years. Like, come, I don't, don't even. Just come, just just come. Yeah, just come hang out. Don't even bring a dog to put in. I mean, if you want to put a dog in. Right. Sure, come on.

But if you don't want to, I hardly ever do. Right. But, You're gonna have a good time. That's the thing. You're gonna have a good time. You're gonna have a good time. If you don't, if you don't have a good time, it's your own fault. Yeah. Like it's your own fault. It's who you brought or who you're with. Like if you're not having a good time with somebody,

but if you don't have a good time, it's your fault. You know, like there, like, like honestly, if it hadn't been for the Bay pin, I probably would have never met. Uncle Pat, you know, like yeah, and that that [01:37:00] guy it's like, I mean he he's full throttle and and he like I tell people all the time like yeah, like Pat's my boy and He's like I'm like, they're like man.

Tell me about that Pat though. I'm like Man, he speaks in riddles. Like, everything that comes out of his... Like, you have to decipher and then glean information off of what he's telling you. And he's not just gonna tell you exactly how, how, how it should be said. He's gonna, like, put it in some type of riddle.

And then you have to process through and you... And then, like, I'll be sitting on the tractor and I'll, like... Oh, that's what he meant by that, you know, and like, it's cool to meet people like that, that, that, because, you know, it's, I never want to get to a position where I feel like I know as much as I need to know or don't have more space to, to get knowledge from other people.

Good or bad. Yeah. [01:38:00] Pass. Fun. That joker.

We got the thermal little scope at the house. I was telling them about that yesterday. We was going down the road, and we was going pigging. I knew where those pigs at. I know the road. I mean, it's right by Cody's house. And he's got that thermal out the window. And it's not on a gun, but he has it out the window looking.

I'm running 45, 50 mile an hour. Stop the truck! Stop the truck! Well he said, that field is full of pigs. I said, Pat, I said, it's full moon. I said, those are cows. I said, I can see them. Oh, alright, go ahead, he said. You know, like, it's just stuff I got all the time. Man, when I went, he got girl from him. It was funny because we were, we were going over to his woods pen, and uh, Like, we're driving down this dirt road, and there's like, 60 dogs running beside the truck.

And he's like, he's like, oh yeah, that's Baa Baa Baa cross with Baa Baa Baa. [01:39:00] And like, these dogs are running in front of the headlights and stuff. He's like, oh yeah, that dog's off of Baa Baa Baa and Baa Baa Baa. Dude, what are you talking about? He's like, man, if I could catch that son of a bitch right there, you'd need to take him home, but I can't catch him.

I can't catch him. And, uh, like, I mean, like, The last time I went out there, I went out there with Hunter, and, like, this dog crawls out from up under his dog kennels. And it's got, like, eight feet of weed eater string on it. And Pat's like, man, we gotta catch that dog, and you need to take it home. And I'm like, what are you talking about?

He's like, we gotta catch him. And he takes out a whoop and he starts, he starts, and he throws his lasso at this dog like freak ass. I mean he's gone, he's like 800 yards into the woods as soon as that rope tried to hit him. And uh, oh man he's a fool, he's a... But at the same time, like, how... How many people, it's a fine line [01:40:00] between being passionate about something and being, like, completely and utterly consumed by something, you know?

And, and, I hope I'm still that passionate to be able to do that, but at the same time like I have to protect myself from being so consumed by something that I, that I go down the wrong, cause I, like I said, I'm highly addictive in everything that I do and like, it, like I want to be the best in everything that I do and I easily get consumed by things and uh, It's, it's not the normal things that normal people are, are getting consumed by, but I, I know for a fact that I'm capable of being consumed, so like, I, at the same time, I kinda gotta watch myself, and like, it's like, I went huntin I went huntin like, it was last year, I was stayin at this smoke show, man, she was, God, she was fine, and, uh, like, all of a sudden, [01:41:00] like, I went out there and hung out with her on like a Sunday afternoon, and, uh, Like, met her frickin mawmaw and stuff, and sat there and talked about heirloom tomatoes for two hours, and like, on Tuesday, she's like, I don't think it'll work, and like, this girl is fuckin smoke, and like, super, like, super down to earth, which is pretty, pretty, like, not very common these days, and uh, like, I was like, screw it, I was like, I'm just gonna go.

And I hunted for like, 30 days in a row. With my two red curdogs and like their pads are like busted up and stuff and like Every day they load it up, but looking back on them like what an idiot man Like what was I trying to prove to people like I deleted all my social media. I was like, I'm Sick of it. I was like, I'm just gonna go hunt and like [01:42:00] We, we had the worst, we had like the worst June as far as heat in Georgia, I think historically in like the last hundred years and it was like 95 and I was dropping dogs and it was 95 degrees at seven o'clock at night and I was still running every day.

For what reason? I have no idea, but like that's what I talk about, like getting consumed by something. I like, I, I. I am, know that I'm fully capable of being consumed by something, so like, I hope I never lose the passion, but I hope I don't get utterly and completely consumed by it. Yeah, there's worse things you could be doing.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I think let's call it quits, we're getting ready to start the two dog, and uh, we'll catch, we'll probably catch back up with you at Earl's or something. Yeah, for sure. That sounds like a plan. We'll be there. Check out Boys and Broads, for sure. Absolutely. Subscribe, subscribe to Tusker's [01:43:00] Magazine.

Um, and I just, I just want to say a quick thank you to you guys. Um, because you know, y'all have Tuskers, it has. Really, um, kind of help calibrate us in the way that they do things, they do things the right way, and it's really helped kind of calibrate the way that we do things. And, uh, to have those guys on our side and doing the things that we're doing together, it really means a lot to us that y'all would allow us to work with you.

And, uh, we, we wish y'all nothing but success and we're always in y'all's corner and hopefully, you know, y'all feel the same way about us. And it means, it means a lot to us that, uh, y'all, uh, y'all work with us. And before we get off. I want to say this, we, we call this the, the dog men, but we're not calling ourselves dog men.

I mean, we want, [01:44:00] we want to talk to people that run dogs, not just hog dogs, that run dogs. And, um, so if y'all have any, any ideas, anybody in mind, I mean, let us know. Let's go watch some dogs bark.