The House is on Fire

Show Notes

Colorado Houndsmen, the house is on fire. Are you going to grab a bucket or sit back and watch it burn?

Naomi (Yates) Hersh with the Sportsmen’s Alliance and the Colorado Trappers and Predator Hunters joins Chris on this episode of the Houndsman XP Podcast to discuss the upcoming attack on predator hunting in Colorado.

  • recap of SB 31
  • Fur bans in Boulder
  • Ballot issues
  • Outdoorsman Days Convention

Check out the Sportsmen's Empire Podcast Network for more relevant outdoor content!

Show Transcript

Chris Powell:

Thank you for tuning into the Houseman XP podcast. I am your host, Chris Powell, and this week we've got Naomi Hirsch, the artist, formerly known as Naomi Yates, who is now working [00:02:00] for the Sportsman's Alliance. She's gonna bring us an update on all kinds of stuff that is coming from Colorado. Colorado needs your help, and we need to get together on this thing right away.

We're gonna discuss. A big event that's coming up in early August, so stay tuned for how you can get involved and how you can support that event and that leads into this today. I was scrolling through some of the pages and different things I've follow on social media and Echelon Front came up run by Jocko Willink and his team there.

They do a lot of leadership stuff and it was about priorities. And basically what they said was, priorities are a choice. When you say you don't have time, that's basically a lie. You're telling that you ought just come clean and say that it's not a priority for you. So you're [00:03:00] gonna hear some straight talk in this podcast about what needs to be do going on and what needs to happen in the state of Colorado.

And it should be a lesson to all of us everywhere. If we enjoy turning hounds loose, if it's a priority that we do that, if it's important to us, then it's time to step up to the plate. I don't wanna get on the soapbox too heavy here, folks, but sometimes there just has to be a little bit of straight talk come from this microphone to your ears.

And I'm not throwing everybody under the bus cuz there's a lot of people out there that. Are very active with their hound organizations. Stay tuned to what's going on. They support this podcast. They're members of the Sportsman's Alliance. A lot of people are doing that, but I want you to take some numbers away from this.

According to information I got from a major registry, there are 200,000 registered hound [00:04:00] owners in the United States, 200,000. And this podcast will maybe get two 500 downloads and listens the first week. So where are you? Where are the rest of you? Naomi talks about going to a Senate bill hearing in Colorado and Denver last year, and passing hounds men on the side of the road that would rather be out hunting that day.

Then going to show up and support the defeat of a bill that would take away their right to be able to even hunt. It's time to stop living in the moment, folks. It's time to start paying attention to what's going on around you and get involved. I know there's gonna be some of you that say, man, I just hate politics.

I just hate, muddying the waters of my hound hunting with politics. I hate to break the news to you folks, but Fish and Wildlife [00:05:00] Management has turned into a political game, and we need your help. Everybody needs your help. You need to help yourself. I don't know a single Hounds man that would take a handout, but there's way too many out there that are willing to sit back and watch everybody else do the work.

Watch other people spend their time, miss hunting days, spend their money and just sit back and ride the gravy train for as long as they can and not miss a dead of hunting folks, the house is on fire and you can either sit back and watch a burn or you can grab a bucket and do your part and try to put the fire out.

The house is on fire in Colorado. It's time to get involved. It's time to get the tailgate down. It's time to dump the box. All right. What kind of t-shirt you wearing? What you got? What you got on there? I'd a United

Naomi Hersh: Hounds Man of Colorado [00:06:00] shirt. Oh, cool. Cool. Yeah, I figured it was fitting,

Chris Powell: so yeah, it is.

That's what we're gonna talk about, man. Could you have any busier year than what you've had?

Naomi Hersh: Unfortunately, yes. And it's coming up, so

Chris Powell: Yeah. Yeah. You've had a lot going on in your personal life. You got married and heart's break, heart's breaking all over the Western Rocky Mountain States.

Naomi changed her name to Naomi Hirsch.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah. Hirsch. Yeah.

Chris Powell: The big news is the job you landed with Sportsman's Alliance. That is cool. What's your I, how'd that come about? Yeah.

Naomi Hersh: I applied for this job two years ago before I was even graduated, and it was when things were going down in Colorado with the lion ban ha supposedly, and all of that.

And I got

Chris Powell: Senate bill 36 last year. [00:07:00] 31.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah.

Chris Powell: I always get the thirties mixed up on it.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah. It was before that actually happened, but there was word of it, and I got in with the Colorado Trapper and Predator Hunters Association a bit more and was just really amped up and wanting to do more.

And I clicked on a button on the Sportsman's Alliance because the C T P H A has always supported them through a thousand dollars every year because we know what good they do as a state organization and we wanna be involved with them. So I clicked on their, jobs, job openings, and and somehow got an interview like a week later.

I didn't get the job at that point. I was just happy to get an interview. Yeah. And then, yeah, and then I also graduated recently with a degree in Fish and Wildlife Management. So with that degree, and was working full-time for Colorado Parks and Wildlife and [00:08:00] had matured a little bit in all of my happenings and yeah, they reached out to me with that open position and interviewed again for the associate director of Communications.

So I work with mostly with Brian. Brian Lynn. Brian Lynn,

Chris Powell: yeah. He's been on the show several times and I like, like talking to Brian and I do too. Yeah. He's just a good dude. Good dude. Yeah. Working hard. And we always have fun when we're on the podcast, oh, yeah. And when more it shows and different stuff.

Are you gonna be with the team at Shot this year and stuff? In 24,

Naomi Hersh: yeah. That's yet to be determined, right? Yeah. I work from home. I know Brian does too. There's only a handful of us that do, so it's pretty open. I can, if I want to, I'm sure. Right now I'm still getting the lay of the land and doing things like this and just meeting a lot of people right now.


Chris Powell: Yeah. Name Naomi. You remember what episode you were on before I, I was gonna look it up and I just ran [00:09:00] outta time. But you've been on the podcast before? Yeah, I

Naomi Hersh: was, it was a couple years ago. I wanna say it was in that same realm like two years ago when I was getting really amped up about things.

It was shortly after I got my lion

Chris Powell: yeah. You've been tested by, tested under fire, that's for sure. And with the whole mountain Lion debacle and the anti hunters coming out and stalking you and threatening and doing all kinds of stuff, Yeah, that was definitely a topic.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah.

Chris Powell: So what did that do? Did it ignite your fire to e fight back even more or did that

Naomi Hersh: yeah, because it's the hypocrisy of these people that can just, they say they want the best for the animal, but then they can turn around and say something so terrible to you.

It's, it almost puts like a, it puts it outta your mind cuz you're like, you're obviously not right in the head to say these things to me as a person. And then say that you value this animal so much. And it kinda[00:10:00] the ones that got me more because there was those ridiculous comments for sure, and those are easier for me to ignore.

But there were a lot of comments of people that were genuinely interested and I think that's a lot about how I put myself out there cuz with my social media after. After that lion post went viral, I put a lot of facts about hounds men, what we do, sportsmen, what we do. And I had a lot of people reaching out to me and being like, I've always been against this.

But you're talking about it in a way I've never heard before. So that those ones got me more involved. Yeah.

Chris Powell: Yeah. So basically, catch everybody up. You ended up taking a lion and you made a social media post about it. It went viral, and then the, it hit the fan, on a lot of sides, but it did a, sounds like it did a lot of good things too.

You took a whole negative situation, you've turned it around and now look at you, you're working at the Sportsman's Alliance and and I [00:11:00] assume that your job at. Sportsman's Alliance entails a lot of social media work and all kinds of things, but that's also included.


Naomi Hersh: it does. Yeah, and it just gave me, not that I didn't already have some thick skin, just cuz just being a hunter on the front range of Colorado, even going through school, like telling your teachers of all things like, oh, I'm not gonna be in class this week. I'm going hunting.

And seeing how they reacted to things and then I just kinda understood that not you just, not everybody has to like the same things is where it came from at first, but then I learned people can be really mean, but then it's just, you don't have to be mean to dis to disagree and it kinda went from

Chris Powell: there.

Yeah. Yeah. I think anybody that's followed your social media posts, your personal accounts, things like that's what we've always seen from you is encouragement, facts, not emotionally charged responses or,[00:12:00] anything like that. It's like these are just the facts. So here it is.


Naomi Hersh: Informative. Yeah. And there's a lot. Yeah. And I think my account is unique to the point too, because we're a hobbyist, hounds, man, my hounds are all misfits. That kind of fell in into our laps, yeah. I have to ask my dad every time the one hound that he got to start out with on purpose what was that line again?

Cause we don't run certain lines or anything, but that dog is a Shamrock plot and he can solo on bobcats all day. And then the dogs just kept falling into our laps, and we do really good with them. So I think there's that aspect of you can call 'em rescues, if you want, but Right.

Yeah. But we're doing the best with what we've got and I think that actually helps reach some people as well that don't quite understand the [00:13:00] breeding and all of that that goes into it as well.

Chris Powell: Yeah. Shamrock comes from Jill and Nancy Hudson. Yeah, from the up. How did you come across that dog?

Naomi Hersh: My family's from the Up and Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. So my dad grew up on Drummond Island and so he's, he is from up there and one of the guys he went to high school with set him up with that dog. So yeah, we got lucky there.

Chris Powell: Yeah. Yeah, a good deal. How'd your hunting season go this past year? Oh, it was rough.

We had did you get to hunt much?

Naomi Hersh: We got to hunt a lot. That one dog, that dog that dad started with is getting old now. He's gone on 12, is that right? Yeah, he is. Got that dog's going on 12 and then his other dog is 14. And and we got a seven year old and then my dog's just getting into it like two and a half.

Just starting to do good and man, we split a bunch of bobcat bobcats went underground. Dad's dog. [00:14:00] Is still dealing with an injury that came from a bobcat a couple years ago. His ankle's just 10 times as big as it should be, it was a rough season for us. I was actually just listening to your podcast with Cody earlier and he was saying how great his was and I'm like, man, I should, should've went hunting with you.

But cause it's kinda the same area, just a little spread apart. We've run into each other once or twice a season. But it was a rough season for us, but our dogs tried. They're just, those bobcats found whole after hole. And then we were wondering, cuz I've heard people talk about this before and after this season, I think there might be some truth to it that if there doesn't come to a point where you actually get to shoot all the bobcats, that are treatable bobcats.

And those ones, that tree, until you get there, catch their breath and run again. Yeah. Those are just end up being all the ones that are left for a few seasons. Cuz man, we went [00:15:00] on a couple 11, 12 mile runs after one bobcat. And that's what they were doing. Just the dogs would have it, we'd get a hundred yards away and the cat would go again.

And it was crazy. So it was a rough season, but then again, it was a bobcat season for us. We always focus on

Chris Powell: bob's. Yeah. Yeah. That's good though. From your wildlife management background. You don't want the dumb ones surviving. Yeah,

Naomi Hersh: so we've named them. We have a, we have three cats now that just do that to us every single time.

And we've seen 'em, we've seen 'em run past and they just, somehow, even with that, even with our dog, they're Bobcat dogs they can catch and they've caught, but we have three of 'em. We have Prohibition, cat, dead, horse, cat, and there's one up in the upper Cherokee unit that they're all Bobs and they all just, we've ran 'em all five times.


Chris Powell: just won't. And every time you're like, this is the day, this is the day one.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah. And we know [00:16:00] it. In fact, we say it's tradition that this cat kicks her ass at least three times this winter. And they have, and it's just that cat because there's other cats we run and. Man, two miles. We're in and out with a bob,

Chris Powell: so Yeah.

But you don't have cool stories about those, the ones that get away,

Naomi Hersh: I dunno, the two, yeah, the two cat days are fun also. Yeah. But when you get one of those three cats, you're like, all right, we're coming out at Dark and with, hopefully with cat, but we know how this is gonna go.

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Know where you stand with Ony. I'll tell you what I really [00:19:00] want to, we were, we discussed this prior to what we wanted to talk about. I think there's some really important things that are developing in Colorado. Yeah. There's a big event coming up with the Trappers Association out there, which I think is gonna be key to setting the stage for some things that are gonna come after that from the anti-hunting crowd.

And you reached out to me and we discussed it. So let's just, I think we just start with let's start with the Trappers Association and the event that's coming up. Your involvement there, cuz you do a lot of trapping as well. If Yeah. Hunting, the most majestic lion in the world isn't enough to upset the Disney crowd.

You're also a trap. Yeah.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah, in Colorado where we can only use box traps too. That's always fun. So yeah, Colorado Trappers and Predators Hunters Association, so T or C T P H A. We're not just a trappers [00:20:00] organization. We're a predator hunters organization too, which makes us unique. And yeah, we're mostly made up of trappers, but we saw, like with that SB 31, we were right there, and we don't get the trap lions.

We're pretty much the forefront on a lot of issues here in Colorado. And yeah, so Colorado's a big issue state because. The organizations like the Humane Society and the Center for Biological Diversity, wild Earth guardians, all those guys. Yeah. They see us as a keyhole. They think they can flip us pretty easy and unfortunately with our governor and his husband being a outspoken animal rights activist, they're not wrong.

So there's a lot of things going on, especially because our commission is governor appointed.

Chris Powell: How long has he been, how long has he been governor or what, how I'd have to What does he prefer his pronouns to be? I, maybe I should ask you that [00:21:00]

Naomi Hersh: I know, he's one of those traditional traditional gaze, I guess that you would call it, which I have no problem with.

But what I do have a problem with is a spouse that's an animal rights activist pushing their agenda. Through the governor. Yeah. No matter who it's Right. And so yeah. It's not right. But, there's rumors. They're not even rumors. I've heard it from people that I know and trust high up in Colorado, parks and Wildlife and, appointees and even advisors to the governor that the governor's husband has been involved in.

And I, that's just not right. He has no part in being in these interviews or appointing anybody, but he does. That's just the reality of it. So that's the landscape we're up against. We have So

Chris Powell: How long, what's your governor's name and how long has he been Governor?

Naomi Hersh: Jared Polis I would have to look that up. He just got reelected this [00:22:00] past election season, so we're stuck with him.

Chris Powell: Do you have term limits?

Naomi Hersh: For governor, I should know this. I believe we do. Yes. But he's in his,

Chris Powell: You can ask Todd afterwards. Todd Atkins.

He'll know. Man, that guy is sharp. Yeah, he is. No, it's Governor Affair. Government affairs. But

Naomi Hersh: anyway, yeah. There's so many different things you gotta remember about different states and I get the

Chris Powell: Yeah, the whole point I was trying to make is, if he's definitely got a referendum cuz he was reelected to at least his second term now.

And I haven't, I don't know either, but he's got a lot of money. Yeah. So he's had time to get the right, the he's gotta had time to get his preferred people in those bureaucratic positions That, that's exactly right. Get they get there, they don't get there by saying no to the governor. They get there by doing the gov.

The governor's bidding for him. Yeah. Yeah, it's the [00:23:00] commission, the departments, all the things that are supposed to be overseeing are fish and wildlife have been,

Naomi Hersh: and now, yeah, he was just able to, oh, that was a shady deal. Get the old director kicked out and he hired a new one.

And of course the guys from Washington where, that's another hot button state. So he is got another pond in C P W and unfortunately because our last director was pre Pullis, so he wasn't as able to be pushed around. But yeah, so that's, one thing that we just heard, and this is all speculation at this point, but I know a person who provides meals for the commission from a sportsman standpoint, it's like the sportsman feeding the commission.

It's a big day. It's all supposed to be real fun for both of 'em, for the commission to meet some sportsman and, they have their meal preferences and we have [00:24:00] three new commissioners this time. And previously for the whole commission and the commission staff, they had to provide seven vegan meals.

This year they have to provide 10 vegan meals. The math is there and there's some guy from the butterfly pavilion that's stepping into the vice chair and a whole bunch of not good things. We have a lady from Boulder who's expected to be the secretary, and she's coming from Boulder who just.

Outlawed for for sales in the city limits of Boulder. Yeah. So that's, and that's on the ballot for 2023 in Denver. We're gonna have to try to fight that one. It's a ballot measure. It's just a city ballot measure. But banning first sales in Denver means the Trapper Association or the Predator Hunters Association can't go and sell for, at the STA National Western Stock [00:25:00] Show in Denver.

And that's a big money maker for us. So there's a whole list of stuff we're up against Yeah. In the Colorado legislature this year. So

Chris Powell: let's just run down the list of them and I think we'll run down the list of things that are facing hunters and trappers in the state of Colorado.

And we don't want to. We'll touch on all of them, but I think the bigger message here is Colorado and Hounds, men and trappers across the United States. You guys need help, you guys need support, you need all this sort of stuff. I know the Sportsman's Alliance is heavily invested there, of course, with you there.

And I've talked to Brian Lenn and Todd Atkins about some of these issues as well. Let's start with that fur band. We touched on it, you mentioned it, but Yeah, but that's crazy. I mean it to, at what point do you, you can buy marijuana [00:26:00] in Colorado, but you can't buy fur.

Naomi Hersh: Oh, I know.

Yeah. And they tried to make a bunch of other drugs legal this past election too. Exactly. Anyway. Exactly. Yeah. And I believe they did because it was funny. That they passed that, but then we barely passed getting wine in our grocery stores anyway. So yeah, that was a little funny. But yeah, so that ballot measure it, like I said, it went through in Boulder.

The thing was, it barely passed in Boulder, which we were all surprised to see. It was only like a 1% pass in Boulder. So it's hitting Denver. We know that. So

Chris Powell: basic band, what is it? What is it? It's not just a fur band sale. It, there's some stipulations to it. There are some the

Naomi Hersh: way I understand it, it's a full ban on selling fur.

So even you're like anything with fur on it, even your fly tires. Yeah. You can't sell flies with fur. Any purses or pillows or anything like that, you wouldn't be able to sell in the [00:27:00] city limits of Denver. And that's how it is in Boulder right now. That would've hit like all of your, even like Murdochs and boot barn and things like that.

If they're in the city limits of Denver, they have to pull those. So it does have a stipulation or a set aside for agriculture. So like your leathers and your cow hides, or like your wool from your sheep or anything. That stuff's still okay, but if it's a fur bearing animal you're not gonna be allowed to sell that if that goes through.

The other thing that's interesting is a statewide there was, and this is all speculation at this point, cuz they're gonna keep things under wraps until they're ready to go. And they, meaning, the Humane Society and all of those guys that start these ballot initiatives are really expensive.

They tried. The, they're so coordinated. We have to remember that these are nationwide and they're trying Colorado, specifically for Colorado, they're not doing it here. Just because they're doing it here because they think they can pull something [00:28:00] off. And so there was word that, so there's a station before that gets to the Secretary of State and it has to be worded correctly before it gets sent to the Secretary of State.

And they tried to send one with four issues. And in Colorado when you send a ballot initiative or you can only have a single issue. So they got it sent back to 'em, and they have to choose which one of these four they wanna run with. Now, the speculations about the four that they had on there were things like banning harvest of all mountain lions again, but with a ballot, there was banning dogs, ba banning hounds.

And an all out fur band or. Banning bobcats, bobcat harvesting. So they put that in with all four of those and wanted it, all lumped together in a ballot measure. The guys came back and said, no, you can't do that. It's a single issue in Colorado. You gotta pick one. We don't know which one they're gonna pick.

Hopefully it's not [00:29:00] dogs because I think that would be one that's really hard to fight. However, it has also pointed out that this could just be a a tool in their tool bag as we go into the legislative season, because a tactic that they have been using a lot in other states is they'll set a ballot initiative and start getting signatures, and then they'll propose a bill that's the same thing, but they'll say as a leverage piece, We don't wanna put the Colorado voters through this.

This is gonna be really expensive. We don't wanna spend all the, all of your energy, yada, yada, yada. So those legislators are being like, okay, if we push this through this way, then they'll drop the ballot measure. There's a bunch of stuff that could happen. Yeah. And we just dunno what it is yet.

And unfortunately they have a lot of time in Colorado, that ballot initiative piece. They don't have to start, they don't have to turn anything into the Secretary of State and have their wording correct until, I believe April of [00:30:00] 2024,

Chris Powell: we'll get, let's get back to the Fur Band thing because yeah.

Pulling the reins in on you here a little bit, Naomi, there's just so much time on. Yeah. I know. We can't spend all day talking about one issue, but. When you look at something like the fur ban, it's just a, it's a drains resources. It puts such a tax who is gonna enforce this ban in Boulder, Colorado?

There it's gonna be somebody calling the dispatch and a police officer showing up and writing a ticket and say 10, a civil probably, and they don't even like to yeah. And so they're tying up court systems and all this stuff with this frivolous baloney and yeah, because somebody's selling flies on Facebook that they tied in their garage.

Yeah, that's exactly it, and are there, I think there's some, aren't there some native American exemptions for some of this stuff? I thought I read something about that. But even if there [00:31:00] is or isn't, it doesn't ma matter. The whole fur ban is just ludicrous.

Not to mention the fact that people will wear fake fur, which is more Yes. The manufacturing of nylon and that sort of stuff is more impactful to the environment.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah, it is. The thing is, these people don't care. You can talk to 'em and you can reason with them, and you can actually get them to admit that, but at the end of the day, it's, but something died for them

Chris Powell: and they, there's a lot of stuff dying to make nylon.

Oh yeah. When you start thinking about the byproducts, the pollutant byproducts, the manufacturing, all that stuff, there's a lot of stuff that dies from that, and, but above all else, it's just, it comes down to money for these, there's a lot of money when you can put a picture of a mountain lion on a billboard and say, protect these majestic creatures.

People will open up their [00:32:00] wallets and just start. And that's what it really boils down to, is yeah.

Naomi Hersh: Those people that are giving that money you, the people that are giving that money see it as a single, you're killing that animal. Exactly. They're not thinking of the money that they're giving.

So yeah, from the top down, it's a lot about money, but those givers that are giving all that money, they're, it's an emotion. They're not really thinking about

Chris Powell: that. Yeah. It's an emotional thing. And it's a, I don't. I don't want to beat the drum for Center for Biological Diversity or HS UUs at all.

But I actually want to expose 'em for the scammers that they are. They are, because it's just a, it's just a money grab form, and yeah. Pay, they've got 200 attorneys that sit around and get paid premium wages, CEOs, million dollar, the Humane dollar salaries.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah. The Humane Society lobbyist that I was sitting right next to, and we had that Senate bill 31, $5,000 a day, she was getting paid just to sit there [00:33:00] and, she went up and gave her three minute test testify thing and just like I did.

But, I can't get paid $5,000 a day to do that. That'd be nice, but no doubt. Yeah, it's insane that we're up against on that front too.

Chris Powell: Yeah. Let's talk let's go ahead and get back to that ballot initiative. I just had a couple things I had to hear myself say right there. Good about that.

About that fur band. But this also ties into it cuz it's the same strategy is it's all about money. That ballot initiative, they say it's gonna cost a lot of money but Center for Bio Diversity does and HS US can absorb it because they're gonna make money on it. They're not gonna do anything unless they make money.

They're businesses. Yeah. But at the end of the day, what do they need a hundred thousand signatures on? Yeah,

Naomi Hersh: they need 125,000 signatures and those are gonna cost them anywhere between 13 and 17 bucks a piece. They'd rather go the legislative route. And like I said, they're gonna use that as a leveraging because it's expensive for the state [00:34:00] also to run these ballot measures.


Chris Powell: Do you think that last year during the SB 31. They went ahead and dropped that whole thing because they had some backroom dealing, knowing that there was gonna be a ballot initiative or I think last year was just a, was just like a recon mission to find out what kind of resistance they would get.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah, exactly that. And I think they're gonna do that a lot in Colorado. Whether that makes you more nervous or less, because there is some, and this I have a gripe with some people that didn't show up because they were like, it's not gonna go through. Why? I'm just gonna go lie hunt and whatever.

It's not gonna go through. And I was like, you don't understand how important it is to show up. I don't think it's gonna go through either. And it didn't. And the only person that voted for it was the bill sponsor. Herself, and we didn't think that we would turn that room for one. We thought at least we'd have to fight three, two.

And [00:35:00] we did great. But we showed up. There was enough people

Chris Powell: there that in a snowstorm. In a snowstorm storm in a snowstorm, and bitter

Naomi Hersh: temperatures. And, we had a good chair at that point too. She was a Democrat, but she was fair and she was she actually came in and it was during the end of Covid and she got rid of the Covid six foot rule.

She's people can sit next to each other. And she's we need overflow rooms because there's people standing outside and that's not right. And there were over 300 of us in the capitol building and. She is gone now. She got term limited out. The chair is now who brought that bill up.

So we can't expect that type of hospitality anymore. We can't expect, and in fact we might be locked outside the Capitol building cuz not all of us can fit, so things have changed a bit. But

Chris Powell: is she, is that chairperson appointed? Who appoints that chairperson? Does the speaker of the house [00:36:00] or that, I guess that would be senate the

Naomi Hersh: committee chairs.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure how the committee chairs get to be committee chairs. They're asking me a bunch of good questions. I should know. I need a whole nother degree in like legislative action.

Chris Powell: It's just one of those things that when you've got a Democrat, governor, then. Or a Republican conservative or liberal, it doesn't matter.

Then they're gonna, they're gonna stack these agencies and different committees and things with people that are gonna appeal to their voting base

Naomi Hersh: every time. Oh, it was bad. So the Colorado parks and the wildlife wasn't even invited into the building and in fact, we're pretty sure that they got told if they would be there, that there would be big consequences because there's one C p W official there, and it was the director and he was put in an overflow room to the overflow room, was not allowed to be in uniform or anything like that.

And that's where he was. And he got told once public comment was over, that he could come out of [00:37:00] that room. And the legislators were asking, where's C P W on this? I'm like, I don't

Chris Powell: know. Ask. So were hunters. So were hunters and yeah, trappers, they were thinking the same thing. Yeah.

Naomi Hersh: And we, I went to go get dinner with the director at the time, again, different director and man, he was purple in the face, not even red.

He was just right. And he made sure that he was there, but to have someone in the state capitol building to say, Hey, this is where you get to sit until I tell you can get up on this issue. Where do you think that's coming from? And that's just straight up corruption. And I watched it happen and yeah everyone was where's C p W at on this?

And because in Colorado and within, in a lot of other states, Colorado Parks and Wildlife opinion cannot vary from the governor's or the governor has to tell him what their opinion is on certain issues. So the governor told them that you do not have a stance on this issue. He wasn't [00:38:00] dumb enough to say you're Pro Lion Ban, cuz he is a smart guy.

Paul is smart, but he said Colorado Park's Wildlife does not have an opinion on this and will not show up. And that's what happened.

Chris Powell: And that also comes through like commission and different stuff. It's the same pretty much in every state. The, yeah. The governor points, the commissioners that sit on the Fish and Wildlife for the Natural Resources Commission and together they tell the directors of this state agency how they're gonna react to certain things and, yeah.

If they don't, then they're unemployed, their funding gets cut. They're they don't have the support, they find

Naomi Hersh: themselves like our old

Chris Powell: director. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not just as simple as, they need to stand up and do the right thing, because if this director goes in there and dies on that hill today, then

Naomi Hersh: Yeah.

And we're facing, Colorado's facing that right now. We have a new director and, I haven't met him. I don't wanna say anything bad about him, but [00:39:00] look who got him,

Chris Powell: he's somebody that does what the governor wants for

Naomi Hersh: sure. He's, to expect him to be anything other than pawn, I think is being naive and that's something against him.


Chris Powell: So when, a lot of people, I've heard him say it, hounds, man, people reach out to me. It's man, C p W needs to stand up and fight. It's not, they do, it's not. They do, but it's not that simple when No, because then you don't have funding for your research then you don't have funding for gasoline.

They, politics is such a dirty thing.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah. The way I put it is the hounds may need to step up and support their c p w, the few officials that are in there that do help support them in other ways. So our state predator manager or he is awesome. He's at every commission meeting. And this was sad cuz I called him about our April season.

Cuz our April season got shut down last year and I didn't figure it out until April 1st and I would've been out [00:40:00] there running and Right. I was like, this has never happened to me before. What is going on? So I called him and he is such a nice guy. He called me back and we talked for two hours and he said, Naomi, every year.

At the commission meeting in January is when we set if April seasons are gonna be open or not. I have kept this season open longer than it should be due to the management plan, and it gets all sciencey and complicated. We can go into that, right? But, and he's there was no Hounds men at that meeting.

I, and I listened to that commission meeting because they're all recorded. I go onto YouTube, I search it up, and there's Mark Vierra, our state predator biologist saying, hounds men are awesome. We get to specify which lines we get to take out of the population because of Homan. Hounds men are great just giving us the highest praises and not a single one of us are there.[00:41:00]

And that, that struck a chord with me too. So we need to do a better job of supporting the people. In c P W that do help us because and I had guys come back when I told them that why isn't he in there fighting harder? And I was like, because he's playing a political landscape and if he does anything more than he is doing, would you rather him in there doing what he can or him get kicked out and some other pong get put in.

So they need our support. And we can talk about the event that's coming up that we touched on earlier, but C P W is actually gonna be there, there's gonna be 15 to 20 c w staff there and those guys. They're not dumb. They know exactly what we're fighting for, and they're gonna be there.

They have trailers, they're doing a fishing derby, they're doing hunter education classes, and they're doing a mountain lion and bobcat review presentation thing. I'm hoping it's gonna be Mark. It might not be, it might be one of our [00:42:00] biologists, but I'm like they're trying. You got right, you got a CP W official coming to a Trappers association, outdoorsman days to give a presentation on Lions of Bobcats.

That's, that to me is what more do you want 'em to do?

Chris Powell: That's pretty cool. As employee, as a former employee, state employee in the same position that they're in, that's one of the reasons why I retired at the age I did as soon as I could, just simply because I was tired of carrying a message that I didn't agree with.

I couldn't Yeah. Clear. I couldn't, with a clear conscience, continue to carry the message. And so it's one of those deals, if you're gonna wear the uniform and you're gonna wear, if you're gonna wear the team jersey, you gotta be a team player. And yeah. And I just saw too many things over and over where we would go to, we would go to some of, a lot of the same things you're talking about, and [00:43:00] you would be directed on what you could say about this and what you shouldn't say about that.

And, but it was always kinda like a wink, wink nod and one of the things that I wanna say before we move on, because I do wanna talk about this, is most of the people that are employed at those levels, where they're showing up to these events, they're on our side they understand what sound, fish and wildlife management is.

Yeah. They don't agree with the emotional thing. And I'm seeing way too many people within our ranks. Cast in dispersion on this low to mid-level employee of the department that really has your best interest in mind. Because all the people that I worked with when we weren't working, they were hunting, they were trapping, they were fishing, they were doing all these things and then they would go to work and they would just gather the data to the best of their ability and put these reports together and do all these things were truly to the [00:44:00] benefit of wildlife.

And they would just send it up the chain and then the bureaucrats and the politicians get involved and the wheels completely fall off. And then they're instructed not to comment on what they found in their studies and what they were, what the true data is showing in that stuff. And it puts us in the front lines of having to carry somebody else's perverted message.

And that happens, yes. In, in especially, it seems to be getting worse because of. The traction that we're seeing in Colorado gained by the Disney Crowd

Naomi Hersh: Administration too. Yeah. And that's, yeah, that's something that I just went through, being full-time with Colorado Parks and Wildlife. I thought that was the big, I made it.

Yeah. And then, and I had to make a decision and luckily it was Sportsman's Alliance Sure. Came around and I was like, I never really knew where I was gonna make the most impact, but I knew I had to. And whether that is doing something like mark Vierra is [00:45:00] doing and being on the inside and doing what you can or, hop jump ship.

I jump ship. Yeah. And getting involved in another way.

Chris Powell: But there's, that's why I started this podcast. That's why I started this podcast. I don't have a leash. I'm off the leash. Yeah. I can say what I want now. I can do what I want. So I get it. It's nice. Yeah, but you got out at a good, I couldn't, yeah, you got out at a good time.

You weren't over invested, you weren't 10 years in and being like, man, I don't exactly, and I've got so much time invested stuff like this. So let's talk about, let's talk about the events that are coming up and yeah, give that sucker some airtime and get some support out there for the sake.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah, let's do it. So it's gonna be an awesome event and you can find all the And that'll take you to the CT P H A website. And there's a little events tab, so Colorado, and you can look at the outdoorsman days event kind of schedule [00:46:00] there. And it's gonna be really fun.

It's down in Fremont County down west of Colorado Springs, oh, nice. Yeah, so it's gonna be an awesome event. This one's gonna be huge. We got a lot of sponsors including Ku u Colorado Shed Company, blood Origins is gonna be there, and they're actually going to premiere their film Lionheart.

I don't know if you've seen it being at advertised. But yeah. Yeah. So that's gonna premiere at our event which we're super excited about. That's huge. And there's, some up and downs like our membership, like I said, people just gotta get more involved. We called all of our membership and out of almost 300 members, only 29 of 'em are showing up.

So that being said, Our organizations in Colorado are really picking it up and figuring out that we've got a band together. So we've got the Colorado Bow Hunters Association showing up United Hounds. Men are gonna be there. Running a couple [00:47:00] events. There's gonna be we're trying to think of ways to get the Hounds been more involved and more dogs in there, somebody came up with an ugly dog contest. An ugly hunting dog contest. None of us like to admit that we have ugly hunting dogs, but there's a few, that we just can't deny. And that's got a cash prize. So if anyone has an ugly hunting dog and wants to take it to Colorado Springs, we could win $500 there.

Chris Powell: Can we, Dr. Can we dress 'em up? Can we dress 'em up with Billy? No, you need to allow some Billy Bob teeth and, some stuff like that. Yeah,

Naomi Hersh: that might be good. Some little nerd glasses or something like that. Hey, I, I. I don't think there's rules against it, so Exactly.

Chris Powell: Why not

Naomi Hersh: be creative.

It's just something to get dogs there. And then we got the, a united hounding guy running a drag to get dogs out and barking and making a lot of noise too, so that'll be good. So what this is, we might make a little bit of money as an [00:48:00] association at the banquet the second night. Cause that's when the raffle we're raffling off a lot of guns.

We've got a $2,000 outfitters tent. We got a $5,000 blind. We don't know if those are gonna be raffles or just silent auction items or loud auction items. So it's gonna be a lot of fun. There's gonna be a lot of good stuff. And mostly it's gonna be to get people. Together. Together. And especially the public who's never seen anything like this.

So with those hunter education classes, I think they're running them both days. And that's just people that want that class. There's gonna be 50 people that wanna Hunter education class, that are gonna be introduced to predator hunting, and all the dogs and stuff there. So that's gonna be pretty cool.

Yeah. A

Chris Powell: good event. So it's August 11th and 12th. Yep. And it's in Pathfinder Park in Florence, Colorado. Yeah. It's where [00:49:00]

Naomi Hersh: the Fremont County Fair is usually held. Colorado We'll give you all that information I

Chris Powell: think anytime. Anytime that we can show up. As a hound hunting community and stand shoulder to shoulder with, I see.

Elk, Turkey, waterfowl, predator, all these different hunting venues. SCI is in there. Yeah. Sci. Anytime we can show up and stand shoulder to shoulder with those people, then it's good for us as hounds. Yeah. Yes. We can't stand alone and we've gotta, we've gotta find that common ground

Naomi Hersh: for sure.

And the last meeting we had as United Hounds of Colorado, we recognized that and we're all going, we're all going to this event because we recognize that, the C T P H A is bigger than the Hounds Association is. And not only that, but with Dan Gates involved in so many other areas like Coloradan's for Irresponsible Wildlife Management, and he's on the [00:50:00] habitat stamp board, he's talking to our commissioners every day.

He is the man behind the curtain, so to speak, on a lot of stuff. And he gets to have a big hand in what we do. And he's president of the Colorado Trapper Competitors Hunter's Association. So you're not just supporting them, you're supporting bigger organizations, even like Sportsman's Alliance because we fund them as well, because we know how important that is.

Chris Powell: To give everybody some ideas here of where Florence is at, it's west of Colorado Springs, it's two, a little over two hours from Raton. It's about what would that be, about two and a half hours from Denver. It's over

Naomi Hersh: city's. It's not bad. There's, yeah. And there is some event lodging there.

There's some campsites available and things like that. I think they're like 15 bucks a night. Yeah, if you wanna bring dogs and just camp out too.

Chris Powell: There's, and this is an event that there needs to be [00:51:00] more than 29 people that are affected by

Naomi Hersh: it going up. So yeah, and that's, that was just sad to hear for our organization.

But like I said, there's other organizations like we got probably that plus more from Colorado Bow Hunter's Association and then we got that plus more from our Hounds Association, so just a little call to get involved in these sort of things. It's really important.

Chris Powell: During that timeframe then Hounds Man XP is going to be there as well.

I'm actually gonna be down towards Raton. The Bear New Mexico Bear season starts August 16th and I'll be down in that country for a few days anyway, prior to Yeah. Doing some other work and so Hounds, my XP is gonna be there. As well. Cool. We'll show up. Okay.

Naomi Hersh: And yeah, if you wanna get more established too, just let me know.

I'm sure the Hounds, the United Hounds Men of Colorado wouldn't mind sharing a little space or we can get you your own or Sure. Any of the above, cuz that would be awesome. Yeah. We need all the help that we can get, not [00:52:00] only in Colorado, we're one of those states that they're just gonna have, they're gonna try to keep pushing cuz we're on the edge.

Chris Powell: Sure. What else do we need to, what else do we need to cover about this? It looks like we've got some game processing, taxidermic classes, some skinny demos. There's all kinds of cool stuff going on. Are you are you advertising outside of our own silo here? Are we hoping to get Yeah.

Naomi Hersh: We actually got we've got some radio advertisements in place.

We've got some TV advertisements in place. Some like local channel stuff. Yeah. So this should be big. We've got all the flyers out and on our website if anybody wants to be a part of it, there's a banner running across the bottom, please support our sponsors from C T P H A, so you get a little bit of advertisement there.

Of course, all the socials there's an event on the C T P H A Facebook website, so if you wanna learn a little bit [00:53:00] more through Facebook instead of going through the original website, you can do that. And then we have an Instagram running and stuff too, so we've got it all, all out

Chris Powell: there. Yeah.

I see one of the motor sports What is that? Fremont Motorsport is a sponsor. Are you gonna have any utv, atv? We might glasses or

Naomi Hersh: anything like that? We might some of 'em are just gonna be banner sponsorships too. Sure. Okay. So they're putting their name out. The big one is gonna be the blood origins.

They're gonna be huge. And they're actually providing a free dinner for everybody on Friday. So Friday dinner's gonna be free. They're gonna do their lionheart video thing. Yeah, that'll be cool. The archery events is gonna be awesome. The game processing and taxidermy classes, there's gonna be trapping demos, just like a normal rendezvous.

Cool. And then, yeah. And one of our. Prized guest is Devin Stacher from the U S D A. [00:54:00] So he's, I've, I know you've heard him, I've heard about him, but yeah he shows up and he's got dogs and maybe he'll bring his rig. He brought his rig when we were closer to his house last year. But man, his family is just awesome and they put on a lot of cool demos,

Chris Powell: Yeah.

How is I'll have to go with Devin on that and see what his plan is and yeah. Yeah. That's cool. All right, so mark, your calendars August 11th and 12th in Fremont, Colorado. It's an Yep. It's an awesome opportunity for us to show support and do a, show a force type thing. Show up.

It's not, yeah, there's a lot of hounds men down through that part of the state,

Naomi Hersh: but there really is. Yeah. And they're gonna show up. Like I said, we had a meeting just like a week ago with the United Hounds men and they're excited they're gonna be there,

Chris Powell: Yeah. Yeah. So what else you got for us, Naomi?

Do we want to talk about what other things are going on with Sportsman's Alliance that Yeah. [00:55:00] Maybe are outside of Colorado that with, that we need to be keeping our eyes on?

Naomi Hersh: One thing that should be riling a lot more people up than it is our Wolf petition. We're petitioning, we have two petitions.

One is to de-list wolves completely in Yes. The Greater Lakes region. Yeah, the Western Great Lakes. And the other one is to create a separate distinct population segment for places like Washington and Oregon and get those down to threaten instead of. Yeah, so that's huge. And that all can be found on the Sports Hands Alliance webpage.

There's a great list of resources. It's probably a whole other two podcasts. One with Brian too about Oh yeah. About all this entails cuz we've got our petitions on our website. We've got US Fish and Wildlife Service News, and it's interesting to me to read their updates because, they've tried to do this once before they, they tried to take it off [00:56:00] the endangered species list as they should be.

So reading what they have to say about, it's cool. We've got individual state wolf plans and those show the numbers between how many wolves are actually in each state, and how many the endangered Species Act was supposed to cover. And then, them be kicked off. So we've got. A lot going on, but that petition is huge.

Like we're petitioning for the de-listing of wolves and we're doing it smart because we're not just doing it how we tried or how other people tried. And trying to de-list all of the wolves at once. We're saying no. This population segment, just like the one that we have in Wyoming and Idaho and Montana, this population segment is good and the numbers prove it. And legally, if the numbers prove it should be good. That's right. So

Chris Powell: That's really exciting. It's long overdue as well. I, yeah. I can't stress that enough [00:57:00] how long it, it is absolutely. Probably one of the biggest factors that have, has affected hound hunting in the up and Yeah.

Wisconsin, yes. So good for you guys.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah. And it's not just us, it's the Michigan Bear Hunters Association. And that Upper Peninsula Bear Helmsman Association, the Wisconsin Bear Hunters Association, they're in on this with us. So it's not just Sportsman's Alliance going out. We got exactly support of the associations too.

It should be ramping up here. It'll sure make some noise when it's time to make some noise.

Chris Powell: That's right. You can go to Sportsman's Alliance website. You can find Sportsman's Alliance website off our website if you're going to there. Yeah. We've got a link right to Sportsman's Alliance and yeah.

See what's going on and let's see how we can push this one across the goal line cuz it, it's long overdue.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah, it definitely is. And hopefully, no one's tried to do it this [00:58:00] way before and hopefully the two petitions and separating these. Distinct populations out. Yeah. Will be the way to do

Chris Powell: it, for sure.

Naomi, I appreciate you taking time. If you haven't got any, what else you got? I don't wanna, I don't wanna push you. I don't wanna push you off. We got so much stuff. We could do this for three hours.

Naomi Hersh: I think every little topic we covered could probably, yeah. Get three hours outta

Chris Powell: this. Where's the best place for people to, and we've talked about it.

I'm giving you your chance to shine here. We've talked about it in another podcast, but give our audience reminder of where they can find the information that they need to be informed about is issues that are affecting them.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah, so the Colorado Trapper and Predator Hunters Association page is great.

We've got a little tab there, antit Trapping Citizens Petition, and that'll show you what's on the [00:59:00] landscape there. Sportsman's Alliance. They're awesome, especially when things get big enough that they, it's a do or die like this has to, we have to wake up now. Other than that, on the smaller level with the ballot initiatives and stuff, it's being involved in your organizations.

Because they're gonna know what's going on. And of course, following people that try to tell you what's going on. My Instagram and my socials are outdoor revivalist, so you can find me there and every time I get wind to something, I'm posting it. And a lot of other people do too, but I think it's important that we keep up on the winds of stuff or the rumors of stuff.

Not just on the, we gotta do something now it's do or die. Because a lot of those things, unfortunately, especially in the legislature, they've only, by law, they only have to schedule those out 24 hours. Yeah. So [01:00:00] if you know something's on the landscape, it's a lot easier to do something about it.

Keep up with those people that. We might sound annoying at times, but we're trying to get you prepared for what's going to, for something like Senate Bill 31, yep.

Chris Powell: Yeah. Yeah. You can I subscribe to the Sportsman's Alliance newsletter. All of our Patreon supporters who we've enrolled with SA are also receiving that newsletter.

There's just, there's really no excuse in this day and age not to be informed about what's going on. The information's out there. Yeah. And you can, it's easy enough to find. All you gotta go is to sportsmans Subscribe to the newsletter and you'll know more than you ever thought you could.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah, that newsletter is great. That again is like when there's something that can be done about it or something can be done about it coming up soon, you, those are on the newsletter [01:01:00] and you're aware if you can make a difference in that way. Yeah.

Chris Powell: We're tear as a community of hunters, we're, we'd much rather be out in the woods, turning hounds loose and finding tracks and doing all that stuff.

Oh yeah. And all of us would, but the newsletters and keeping track of what you're doing, there's a lot of organizations out there that, that can keep you in the loop. And at some point, main, we're gonna have to step up and start showing up. Just like the tell Yeah.

Naomi Hersh: Tell you what. I was driving by people that had just set their dogs out when I was on my way to Denver to testify against 31.

Chris Powell: And did you stop and yell at 'em? Say, do you know

Naomi Hersh: what's normal? And I wanted to, I, I was all, pressed suit, going to Denver. I was going there to keep this stuff alive, and I almost stopped. You know what you want? Put him back in the truck. Let's go to Denver.

Chris Powell: Exactly. It really aggravates me, Naomi, because our crowd [01:02:00] is very vocal about a lot of things, and we're not freeloaders.

But at some point, you gotta realize, if you're letting everybody else do your heavy lifting for you, and you think that it's that it's all gonna be okay. It's not, it's time for you to stop being a freeloader. Yeah. And get involved and not. Get all your news off of Facebook or get on Facebook and complain about C P W when your predator specialist is standing in a meeting by himself.

And that's, it doesn't

Naomi Hersh: work. I'll say one more thing about that. Last year when I advertised this event, I put it on Facebook, all the big I Hunt Colorado page is the big one here. And that event was scheduled for the first weekend in archery season. That post got hundreds of comments of, I can't make it.

You guys are crazy. First week of archery season, no one's gonna show up. So we changed it, we changed it this year, [01:03:00] it's before archery season. I make a post on the same page and it's got three likes. It's because no one likes to argue and no one wants to put their money where their mouth is we gotta start doing that and show up and I know we can, we're out there. Sure

Chris Powell: we do. Yeah, sure we can. Absolutely. Naomi I thank you for your time. Yeah, thank you guys. Anytime you've got, anytime you've got something that you want to get us updated on, just reach out to me and sounds great.

And even if it's just a 10 minute spot where, you know, Hey, I want all your listeners to know this is going on, they need to hear it.

Naomi Hersh: Yeah. Hey, I might take you up on that because in Colorado, it's gonna be a bunch of little updates here, there and Sure. Whatever that they're trying to do, yep.

Chris Powell: Yep. You got any closing, closing words of advice besides get involved?

Naomi Hersh: That's my. Go to, so That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Just thank, thanks for having me involved in [01:04:00] this and letting me be involved a little bit more with you guys.

Chris Powell: You're doing some great stuff, Naomi. You've always been one of those people that, like I said, you read your posts or informative, you're not inflammatory.

You're a cool customer and Sportsman's Alliance and Hunters across the United States are lucky to have you.

Naomi Hersh: Thank you. I appreciate you and all you do with your organization.

Chris Powell: Yep, you bet. You can get more information from about Sportsman's Alliance by going to hounds man and clicking on our partners and sponsor tab.

It'll get you a direct link in there. Sign up for that newsletter. You can also join us on Patreon and when you join us on Patreon at $12 support level, we're gonna pay for your Support Month Alliance membership. That's all you. That's a $70 value annual value right there. So you can do the math.

12 times 12 is 144. You're getting 50% of your money back when you join us. Check out hounds man We've got all our cool merch there. We're expanding that line [01:05:00] all the time. Thanks for listening to the Hounds Man XP podcast. This is fair Chase.[01:06:00] [01:07:00] [01:08:00] [01:09:00] [01:10:00] [01:11:00] [01:12:00] [01:13:00] [01:14:00] [01:15:00] [01:16:00] [01:17:00] [01:18:00] [01:19:00] [01:20:00] [01:21:00] [01:22:00] [01:23:00] [01:24:00] [01:25:00] [01:26:00] [01:27:00] [01:28:00] [01:29:00] [01:30:00] [01:31:00] [01:32:00] [01:33:00] [01:34:00] [01:35:00] [01:36:00]