The Makim Method

Show Notes

All Mixed Up is not done wrestling monster boar hogs! Chad and Seth head to the land down under to have a chat with Mr. Ned Makim about his style of Aussie pig hunting in the Outback. Ned has written a book about training pig dogs and runs a school for hog hunters of all experience levels to enhance their abilities and maximize their success in hunting this most formidable of creatures. Geet ready, the dogs have a rank one caught!
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Show Transcript

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We all have that one special dog hanging out on the porch. He's just a little bit of this and a little bit of that. All these things you like coming together to make one superb dog. That was exactly what we had in mind when we made this show. Welcome to All Mixed Up[00:03:00]

Chad Reynolds. What is going on buddy? Dad Seeds, a whole bunch of seeds and tractor stuff in between Bear season, my dog's piles are all chewed to pieces, so yeah, it's time to put the seeds in the ground. What are you planting? Right now, Trinity to Kaylee and then, and about another. Two weeks, it'll be sorghum sedan.

What is tri to our non-ag agricultural listeners? It's kinda like a wheat. It's a type of wheat slash rye. It just, the, all the wheat farmers around me, all the wheat, winter wheat farmers around me don't really like it. Cuz if it gets in theirs at all, it lowers their, their quality, and messes with their seed count.

So they hate me. As long as I don't plant rye or let the nap weed get too bad. It's all fine. But right now it's just like a like a bad wheat, forage cows can eat it. And that's what I use it for. Game birds and cow feed. So when you're hanging out with your friend, say you guys just went to a salad bar and you guys were hanging [00:04:00] out.

And you notice your friend has something in his teeth. Do you say something? Are you one of those guys or do you just let always, every time you got something right here on your forehead right here. Is that right? Yep. You got like a debris. Oh, you got it? Yep. Is that right? There you go. It was like a piece of paper stuck to your forehead, dude.

Yeah. It might be the little plastic fiberglass things from the bags, but there you go. Yeah. He's got feed bag debris on him. His Chad Reynolds is out there getting it, getting down. You know what I, it added some of my fruit snacks. Oh, juicy burst. Healthy. Healthy, that's right. The, we all know here at Hounds next pee that Chad Reynolds is an absolute health nut with his diet.

So yes. His big gulp, his juicy burst and his Python livers. Yeah. There you go. There you go. His bore hogs. Ugh yes. Now, and I'm trying to track down the fella. That used to have all the tricks that I learned how to cook the boor hogs, like top of the line. Tracking him down. I think he'd be open to doing a [00:05:00] podcast with us.

Love. I would love that. I'd love to eat Breaking down how I want that eat one. I want to eat the rankest dirtiest, most suo disgusting boor hog we can find. I do. I really do. He could. He'll do it. His little machine man, he puts 'em all in there and they're the meat's coming off when it comes out and he slaps it on this giant stainless steel table.

And it's like a bunch of wolves just tack it, and like portioning it all out and big, the big pieces over there and quarter to this and that. And a lot of times the ladies are all helping out too. So they'll come up and take the, the bigger portions we get off and split 'em up into helpings for everybody else.

But in the beginning it's just everybody washes their hands up to their elbows, cleans out, their fingernails really good. So your hands are spotless. And then, Dive in. It's, yeah, it's like a bunch of Piran is just going at it with his giant 300 hundred pound, 400 pound hog. Sorry, Danny Bugs, but I'm in brother.

Let's go eat one. Yeah, so I like hopefully we'll have him lined up here pretty soon to, to break down how to do it and then we can do it too. Speaking [00:06:00] of big nasty bore hogs, why don't you tell us about this month's episode? All mixed up, brother. I'm excited about it. Ned, make, let's see.

He's a guy from Australia. When I first met him, I really didn't personally, didn't know too much about him. I had just gotten outta the military a little bit and was getting back into hunting. And he came over from Australia to do a big hunt and just touched him at a bunch of different places.

And a it was. It was pretty cool because he had his way of hunting that we'll talk about in depth here later. But I was a Yag terrier guy at that point, and he had never dealt with a little wild rascals, and we went out and happened to get into a sounder and all my little pigs, all my little dogs each caught like a little shirt.

So I think I had four at the time, and I think we caught four or five, like 30 pound pigs, so it made 'em raise his eyebrows oh, this is so nice, but it happens that time when you run the little dogs. You, they just they were, they wanna grab something.

If they're grab something, they grab something. Yeah. They'll go for the big ones if they see 'em. [00:07:00] They sure. They're trying to go small, but if they get dusted and come and then run up behind the little ones that's what they get. Anyway, we caught those and then we caught a few raccoons in the ditch and had a bunch of fun.

And, I got to share my style hunting with them. And it was a lot of fun. And then then found out where he came from. I didn't even know who he was at that point. I just was like, hi, I'm Chad. He was like, goodnight mate. Or, and it threw me for a loop. And then learned to like him.

He's, he is an awesome guy, very knowledgeable. Shared a bunch of stuff with me for, with hog hunting, and learned about the way they do things over there and it was just really cool. But anyway, so now he is got, like I said, a school for hall hunting over there. He trains hunters.

He is wrote a book, make a method. It's got some cool, fun facts in there, all kinds of different applications out about how to get an o an obedient hunting dog. Cuz that's something that both me and him agree on. I'll, you show me a hyper obedient hog dog and I'll show you a hog dog that can't find any pigs.

Like they have to be able to act independently, so there's functioning obedience without it getting in the way, you have some attention heal with your dog. It's. Yeah, it's not focused on the [00:08:00] work. Exactly. So anyway, that, yeah, that was my introduction to Ned. I thought he was really cool.

And I'm gonna make a quick announcement. You guys listening to this. There's already an episode on the Patreon page with Mr. Ma. Me and Chad went on a marathon with him. We covered so many topics, there's no way we were gonna be able to fill it all in one episode of all mixed Up. So the Patreon page, you guys, there's already awesome content there from this talk with me and Chad and Mr.

Make, but also next week there will be as well and it's all good, but I didn't want this episode to be three hours long. We chopped it up and that's exactly what the Patreon page is for. We've done that with other guests that there was just too much cool stuff. We couldn't let 'em go. So go check it out, you guys on the Patreon page much, much more with Mr.

Macu was there and a lot of all of it has to do with hunting, but we cover a lot of stuff like Wild Bulls. And yeah, snakes and just all kinds of crazy stuff in Australia and just cool stuff about Australia in general. He's really knowledgeable with the culture there and the aboriginal people culture hunting with them.

[00:09:00] There's a lot of cool stuff there. So I just really wanted to let everyone know that. We're gonna cut into Mr. Make's talk, but there's almost an hour and a half ahead of this talk that you're gonna hear on the all mixed up episode. So go check it out you guys. Yeah. But Chad, you've been you've been clutch on finding badass guests lately.

Dude I, we got a few more ideas too. Got a few more ideas too. There's there's so many out there, it's mainly just finding people that want to talk and then can talk. And I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I'm just learn learning it. So this is new to me, but when you hire an actual famous person like Chad Reynolds, other famous people come outta the woodwork, yeah, it's been awesome. That has been a, this has been a, you've been a great help for bringing in cool guests and I really appreciate it, buddy. That's all I got to add for this pre-roll.

This is a nice, good long talk with Mr. Makeup covering a variety of topics in this episode. There's something you need to add, brother, before we roll into it. This would be a good time. Nah, let's get it, let's get right into it. Okay. And I pulled you off topic there just so I could get you back on. I wanted to know, yeah, make sure everybody [00:10:00] knew how they could do it, but the reason I went for Bailers is because they allow me time to get there and back up the dog.

So if I'm g gonna put a dog on a big rank pig I can't be 15 minutes getting there. Like a lot can happen in the first minute, let alone 15 minutes. Not the least of which is just overheating. They can overheat very quickly. So I, I had to overcome the, I'm a macho guy and I'm just gonna with these pigs, whatever happens, man.

I was caught up in that I'm a bit competitive and, a little bit physical, so that's how I used to do stuff. But you get age is a great, it is a sobering thing and it's challenging. If you're a certain type of man to go gracefully into it. So I used to be able to jump a fence, then I had to put my hand on the top of a fence, like a barb wire fence.

I used to be able to jump them. And then I used to be able, I'd jump them by putting my hand on a post and vault over it. And in my forties [00:11:00] I realized I couldn't do that anymore because I misjudged it and I end up hung at shorts on and I caught the inside of a right thigh on the top barbed wire, and I was upside down.

In this fence by mistake? No. Are there any pictures of this Ned? Any pictures or video? No. No. You're saying that Ned almost became a bar hog, just like yeah. Anything in that area is unwelcome in the main, there's only a few things that any that are okay in that area. I'm glad you're still a rank old boho.

Yes. Oh yeah. I'm getting rank but I had to, I couldn't climb back up. I couldn't get myself back up, so I had to bounce and tear it and that, that took some will. Cause it was unpleasant in the extreme. And I, anyway Jen is many things, and one of them is a registered nurse who's worked in emergency.

So I'd got home and just said, have a look at this. And she go, oh, what the hell is this? So that's when I learned about offsite stuff, which [00:12:00] is the new way of dealing with wounds, which keeps them moist. It's like the second skin stuff. You just slap it straight on instead of bandaging. That's a whole other story.

She's very good. She's as good as a vet to me for vetting me. And I've become reasonably handy with the dogs, but so you have to go through this thing where you go, I can't jump fences anymore. So now I get on the guts and crawl through the holes, where the pigs go.

And the young blokes go over the fences and they'll, they'll find that funny. But I'm saying, yeah we'll see if you're still here when you're 63, mate. See what you're doing. But anyway, so the having bailing dogs for me has had to be has, it was a real mental shift. Now I've got two, I've got another dog called Ghost from Tonks.

It's a beauty. Cliffy, the Wonder Dog, the rescue dog. He went to my son and then my son's smarter than me, as you'd hope your sons would be. And he went, I'm gonna get into this bailing dog stuff because, And he found a, he got a a [00:13:00] female kelpie from a cattle place. Cause they're often harder.

You don't want 'em too soft and, and lemme I'm sorry. Let, lemme me jump in real quick just so the listeners, the Kepi is a, like an Australian collie, right? This is, a stock dog or Yeah, it's a stock dog. And it's bred from, see I think Kelpie is a Scottish word, and it was bred from some Scottish stock and there's a whole, and Kelpie was the name of the first one that you know they, from which they started the line and they're lean they're like border Collies are an extraordinarily good work dog.

And some guys here use them for finding pigs and bailing pigs. But Kelby is a shorter hair. They're more made for. Open long distance driving. In hot country they are smart. You can, just about teach 'em to drive. They're very smart dogs and some of them, like Cliffy are just fascinated by pigs [00:14:00] to the exclusion of everything else won't work.

Just wanna look at pigs. And so farmers hate them. Pig hunters love them. If farmers knew the value of those dogs, they'd be breeding them all the time. So he then sourced one from a cattle place because it, just took the punt that it might work. And she is a machine. He's absolutely picking big balls.

She will give a bo a nip as he's running away to make him sit down. And wait. We think Cliffy might too, but we've, he's actually seen Tori, her name is do it. So then we br Tori and Cliffy. They've produced some lovely pups. One of them at seven months now, a little bitch is finding and going nose to nose with great big ranked pigs.

And we'll nip them, to keep them in one spot. She's the standout. And what we do then is go, cause we get feedback. You pick who they go to. It's not just anyone on, they're not just retail sales, you're just picking who they go to. So the feedback's come back and [00:15:00] a good friend of mine, another guy I trust, he's watching her, one of his mates has this pitch and he's just come back and said, no, this is the one, this thing's ridiculous.

She's zeroing in on these pigs, she's fine. And she's way ahead of everything else. And so that's where the breeding will go. We'll follow her. The others are working, but she's freak. So then you try and what we do is we try to breed freak to freak and see how many freaks you come outta that, and then we just keep following the freaks and then it's, oh, a miracle.

They all seem to do the same thing. And anyway, that's as much as I know about breeding. Yeah, and just to elaborate on that, cuz the traditionally, the Australian style of catching these is with, either one or two out type dogs that just go find it, catch it, hold it. And the, so bailing dogs, as you guys call 'em, or bay dogs as we know 'em back here in the States, is that's something relatively new to the style.

Yeah. Yeah. I, it's new to me and it's absolutely growing in the pig world. Some people have always used them because that was just the style they [00:16:00] liked or that is what was done in their area. Remembering that Australia's a big place with few people, so a lot of the Yeah, that's right. I keep forgetting about that.

A lot of the cultural things are isolated. Their habits develop or this is the way you do it or people are always looking for good dogs. And we always just say to them, just talk to the people who are hunting in your area because the dogs that are, if they've been hunting for 20 or 30 years there, they're gonna have dogs that work in your area.

Yes, it's good to experiment, but be careful of thinking you're gonna have the, the next big thing that's going to come in or be careful of marketing on, because it, I'm fine to say you can't pick the toughest guy in the pub. You don't know until shit starts to get going.

So the guy, the big giant guy with tats might get knocked out first, go by the jockey sitting in the corner. He might be the one. You can't pick dogs based on their physique. You gotta see the work and you gotta see if you can see their parents work. And then you can predict what they're going to do.

But a lot of people, [00:17:00] as go, oh, look at that bloke, ge he'd be dangerous because he's big and got tats. But I'm always, cuz my father wasn't a big guy with tats and jeez, I saw him stack some blokes, and he was a weight and if it got going he just got outta the way. Cause here we go.

A whole lot of stories about that. But I learned very early on not to judge books by their cover and that, I know that'll insult all the book cover designers out there, but I'm not trying to be, and that's something that I see with Americans. Just to talk about us too I find it with a lot of the keur dog, the bay dog guys.

They'll have a litter let's say if Cata Hulas or Ke dog, black Bound Ks. But I, in my personal experience, I've seen it more with Cata Hulas where they'll have a litter and they'll be a dog in there that is very socially dominant, just possessive of the food bowl, the water bowl, the best place to sleep, the stick they find in the backyard.

Just very socially dominant, socially aggressive. And I think [00:18:00] a lot of folks will take that and they equate that to hardness on game. And I, am I not stress. Hard enough that social dominance, it doesn't mean the inverse, it doesn't mean the same thing. It doesn't mean it is absolutely nothing to do with hardness on game.

Nothing at all. Oh yeah. No and as with people like the strongest world person isn't the coolest kid at school. You don't know until someone's tested, but then they breed that over and over. Oh yeah. Course. And over again. Course. And now a lot of our curves, not all of 'em again, everybody calm down out there, but we're seeing it more now than before.

We're seeing it more now there than before. That even these ke dogs are getting very aggressive. Dog aggressive. You can't, they used to be a day, you could have a shoebox, and if you had a big enough crowbar, you could set 10 or 15 in there, and as long as you could get outta the driveway, they'd make it to the field, and now you put two of them. In a stock trailer, and they're at each other's throats. And we never [00:19:00] had this dog aggression before. And I don't think it's all the handlers, it's the genetics and people are putting emphasis on social hardness. I just wanted to give, a personal example.

Some of the things you're saying. I absolutely agree with that. The guy that I got this line of dogs from, he said, you can't see what's in their chest. You, that's Tess. And what he meant was heart. Yeah. You can't see what's in their chest. You don't, you find that out in the field. And so he was hard.

He was a heart man and ruthless about breeding, anything that showed any weakness of any description just wasn't in the breeding pool at all. And his dogs are still talked about, as, fantastic dogs from, from a, just decades ago. People are always chasing, have you got any of that blood?

And. Out of respect for him. I've stopped saying that I've got any of his blood because it's I don't want to be, seem to be trying to market on that. Cause I don't really care if I never sell a dog. I don't, I just want dogs. I can use, I want dogs in our family. I've got grandkids [00:20:00] now. I've got six grandkids two boys and four girls.

One of them might have the pick hunting gene, who knows? And I want them to be able to go, oh, these are the dogs that, my grandfather and my father or my uncle you know, yes. Worked on. And they're good for that reason. And I want them to grow up in that culture of, yeah, no, Fluffy's lovely, but Fluffy's not a hunting dog.

We don't breed from fluffy, for this reason because all horses can run fast, but only some horses are going to win the 2 million race and they might only win by half a nose. So some of that is training. Most of it's genetics. I agree. I agree. Let me ask you something.

I'm new to the whole pig scene, right? So I'm, I was very excited to be a part of this show. I wanna ask you, because I'm listening and I'm gonna put this all together, but I want to get right to it. Tell me about your team right now. It sounded like you just got into Baylor's, and so I want, I wasn't sure if you're using big, powerful sight hound types or if you were, so it sounds okay.

Break down your current team to us [00:21:00] all and give us a view of how you're hunting them. Okay. So I've got Baz and Ghosts, which are both herding dog types. And I've got John, who's the son of Cliffy and Tori, so he's a Kelpie. So those three, John's just barking at pigs from the buggy and running around like an idiot.

He's a he's an, the equivalent of an early teens boy going, wow. Whereas his, some of his siblings are into it, yeah. Yeah. So he's just running around. I'm just allowing him to do that. Whatever he does. So I've got those ones. I've also got Alan, who's what we call a make dog.

And that's he's a hairy looks like you'd imagine an English Wolfhound English sorry, an Irish wolf found English UL Terrier would look like he's a bit thick bit athletic. Ton of guts. Absolutely ton of guts and can find like crazy. Then I've got a ring in called Robbie, and he's, what's a ringing?

Not one of our breed. I grabbed him from a bloke because I was down to [00:22:00] Alan. Okay. I've had a few disasters during the year. Me too. A couple of dogs killed and whatnot. And it was so we were down to him and I thought, I cannot risk, cuz Alan's got very good genetics in our world and I thought, I cannot risk losing him by putting too much pressure on him to grab the pig.

That's the others have found. So I've got this ring in that's just I, unknown breeding, I'd just like to look of him and I thought, and I spoke to the guy and I just said, will he grab a big pig? And said, yeah. And I said, will he grab a bad pig? Said Yeah. I said, alright. I just, I trusted the guy and so far so good.

But he's a big athletic sort of a dog that's well big for me. Long curly tail, like a stag type so he looks I always look at that long, long twisted turn, turned up, tail and go, Ooh, pace. Good chance he'll have pace, whatever he looks like he's gonna have pace. Is it speed? Is that pace?

Yeah. Yeah. He's gonna be able to cover the ground. Okay. And [00:23:00] so he's been good. He, his job is essentially to back up Alan, but so I poke around in my buggy. I've got a little Polaris and I have the only way to hunt. Dad's a big fan man. I got a tremendous deal from a mate of mine on this Polaris.

And then I've done stuff to it. All the full underbody stuff. And I've put on solenoid quick releases. So the sort of the solenoid, the little switch that'll open your boot got the same exact setup? Yeah, I've got four of them. I've got my buttons on the front and so my hard dogs are clipped up to that.

The sheep dogs just roam cause they're not gonna get into any trouble or overheat. They just do whatever they do. So mostly now I'll let the sheep dogs, I'm just using the sheep dogs cause that's the easiest descriptor. I let them, they just range out, have a bit of a look around. They'll definitely go on set.

Sometimes they'll go on spec, they'll have a speculative, have a look, what if I've gone to where we've pulled out good pigs before, they'll [00:24:00] just go in on spec and go, yeah, there might be one here. Sometimes there's not. They're all carrying, the Garmin collars. So I'm tracking them on the screen, on the buggy, and you can tell often what's going on just by the, by their behavior on the screen.

So there's things like that I call a Christmas tree or cutting circles. So cut circles is they're just going around an area. I'm just gonna, there'll be something in there. And sometimes that indicates a good pick. They're going around, they're sussy here. I don't wanna actually bump into it.

And then, then they'll start barking. The Christmas tree is, the tracks really wide at the base. And then it gets narrower. That's gonna be a narrow hit that's gonna point to where that pig is. So I'll just start going if I see those sort of things. Cause I'm just assuming it's gonna keep going.

What I'm trying to do is to minimize the chance of the pig getting too far and into crap country. Like I, there's a lot of blackberries here and I absolutely hate crawling into a blackberry to get a pig. I [00:25:00] hate it. I've always hated it, but you gotta do what you gotta do, so in you go, if I can keep 'em outta the blackberries, then I'm very happy.

So I'm trying to get things down to the, 15 seconds increments, so if that dog's, if I'm on my way to where that pig is that's gonna save a certain amount of time in which the pig might go, wait a minute. I can work out these things. I'm just gonna rush 'em and go.

And I want harder dogs closer there so that they're not having to work in the heat that like the. Heat is what'll hurt a lot of working dogs in Australia, and I'm sure it's the same elsewhere. And then there's the contact with the pig, the closer they're to the front end of a pig, the, exponentially increased chance that they're gonna get hurt.

So I want that time minimized now. So I'm hunting like the sort of hunting I used to laugh at, but I'm finding that I used to think, oh, what's wrong with these bl They've got no guts. Why are they doing it this way? And I just, now I feel a bit stupid because,[00:26:00] it's a really efficient way to hunt.

The, it's funny how you pr you were talking about age, changing your perspective. Yeah. And I hunt with a lot of guys that are in their seventies, yeah. And the, and so I started up there with them. So I hope I skipped a lot of the decades of me being a silly guy. Oh yeah. But yeah, it sounds like you got like a bay dog lead in catch speed dog, though.

That's like a. Big, powerful speed catch dog, which is, yeah, I like that. Yeah. Cause that, that we caught all the slow stupid pigs a long time ago. Like the, you get them first the balls here now. I used to be able to run down a ball pig. I, I was a good middle of boy wasn't good by national standards, but I was a competent middle distance runner.

So I could, and I my position when I played football was the, not the tough position. It was this fast position. You get the ball to front school. I wasn't tough at all. But the so I used to be able to just, that was actually my job. If we were a group of us and we were hunting and [00:27:00] then some broke from the mob, my job was just to, to run them down.

And I'd keep running and I'd be upright, of course. And the dog, it was easier for the dogs to see me instead of trying to scent the pigs. So I, sometimes the dog would run past me and catch it, but there is. I think even now, if I was young, I wouldn't have come close to catching up to a bo here cause they've just been harassed for all my time.

It's just been an exponential, again, growth in pig hunters and they're just into 'em. And people people like Ian Coley, who is the first guy to take me pig hunting. He was a real student of breeding and he had a good mentor and a guy called Doug Mum, who was a much older guy. And he had he had some excellent bass crosses, like he might have had an English mastiff, UL Terrier or something like that.

And he'd use him as a stud dog. Or he might have a a deer hound fox hound or something like that. And then he was, he [00:28:00] would mix and match cause he liked to hunt deer with his dogs, but he'd also breed these pig dogs. And Ian Coley was the first person, he's still alive, but he's a couple of years older than me and retired now from pig chasing and Word, he's a, he takes wildlife photos, so he's still hunting, if but he's he was the first person I overheard talk about big boy selection cuz he was getting it and he believed it was coming through the deer hound. Okay. That soon as you get deer hound into your line, they'll start picking the big one. And it was more complex than that, but that was the base I got out of it.

So I started to look at deer hounds then and and yeah, there's deerhound in mine a long way back, but genetics don't go away. We've still got neanderthal bloody genes in us. There's about 2% in of our genes in the end. Chad has more than me for sure. He's got that, he's got that head.

You might have some of the female ones set. [00:29:00] Does this beard mean nothing to you? Man, they can be pasted on, mate. This is an airbrush brother. Yeah, but yeah, I'm on Chad's side, so I'm just gonna have a swing. I'm the guy like, speed dogs over here. I'm on team. Yeah, I've been in your house yet though, but anyway, so I can't even remember what I was up to, but yeah, I wanted to pay, particular respect to Ian colleague. He knew a lot. He still knows more about pigs and dog breeding than anyone I've ever met include and myself, He was an early student and he just bred, some people are still chasing his line of dogs.

I had a message the other day, someone saying, who breeds Cali Dogs? Not Cali, like as and Cheap Dogs, but he and Cali dogs. And I didn't know, but I'm trying to find out because people will claim, oh, I've got this line of dogs. And they might have had one that came from that breeder or was said to come from that breeder and then they'll call it their line.

That guys get really sensitive [00:30:00] about people claiming their legacy or producing a ship dog and having their name attached to it. Of course. But anyway, so it is very much like he used to use some baling dogs, just really mixed breed things that he had one called Fruit Bat and it was a I feel like I could name a bunch of my dogs'.

Fruit Bat. They look like one. Yeah, that's right. Went as a puppy. He looked like a fruit bat. I love that. And great dog. Absolutely great dog. Never grabbed a pig. As far as I'm wearing it's light, but could find them the find big bores. When they were found, the other dogs would get their fruit bat would just fly and find the next one.

So you could just go looping up a gully and there'd be just good pigs all the way. And fruit bat beyond all and fruit bat didn't get hurt. It was just a light built sort of a dog. And that made me start to think, but I cannot overstate how much my ego is interfering with my education. Because I wanted that contest.

I wanted that test of myself, and the purest way I could think of that was you have [00:31:00] hard dogs and you get there and you back 'em up. But age does change you. And the big, the biggest thing I've learned is cause I do some hunter education, that people come out with me for 24 hours. And one of the biggest things that I'm saying to people is just calm down, just relax.

The pig hasn't gone to Mars, we've missed him here, but he's still here in the landscape somewhere. Sometimes they might run, three kilometers, they might run five kilometers, they might run a hundred meters and just squat. They'd just be calm. We start again, whereas in the past I'd be, we've lost him.

You, he was gone, but then you do learn that they, yeah. That they don't go to Mars. They're still there somewhere, and if you see good tracks, the pig hasn't levitated away. The pig made those good tracks. He still exists there somewhere, and it's just a matter of putting together the science.

And on that note, I'm gonna force you to talk about it here. I know, I'm gonna twist your arm. I think what you got going on is really cool. And I'd like [00:32:00] you to break it down for us a little bit. I know. I know that you have a, a school over there of sorts where you train, pig dogs and then hunters yeah.

As well. And then you've written a book the make method. I'd like you to just break down what is it the, exactly, just a brief overview about what you do in your school, and then is there something you'd like to share with us about your method, about, some of your theories and fundamentals?

Yeah I guess the simplest, ver the simplest thing I try to say to people is, don't apply human reactions to a dog. Don't think it's behaving like a human. It doesn't think that it's a human. It thinks you are a dog and you're either a strong dog or a weak dog, and they can love you all the same, but don't say, oh look, he's doing this.

And, cause Fluffy's this and Fluffy's like that. Fluffy isn't like that. Fluffy is a large predator that we've bred to behave in certain ways. And you have to tap into that. So I [00:33:00] think that the saying here is that, oh, you've just gotta put pigs in front of them and they'll learn. And more pigs equals better learning.

So I get a dog for a month. I send them here. I've had 'em from from Perth, which is about as far away as you can get. So that's like Los Angeles to New York. So dogs sent over to come and train with me for a month, and then people drove over to pick it up and ra from say from New York to El Paso or somewhere.

I've had dogs. That's distance too, coming from the north down to me. So people trust what I'm doing. But what I say to 'em is the first, they come from a month, first week the dogs are shell shocked because I'm just, it's boot camp. It's just, no, don't do this, don't do that. Do this, do that.

Here's your food, don't eat it. Yeah, speed it, right? All that sort of stuff. So they're a bit shell shocked. Second week they start to resist, they'll test the boundaries. Third week they start to see the pattern of, oh, good things come from this. And the fourth week they hit their straps.

They start to really [00:34:00] show what they can do. Some dogs that varies slightly depending on the dog and experience and things like that, but it follows that basic trait. But rather than more pigs, I'd say to people, most of the good behavior of a pig dog, if it's bred to do that job will come from discipline within the yard.

So I'm a great advocate of long lead training so that when I speak, if I've got a long enough lead on the dog, I can communicate physically with the dog to give my words a physical value. So I'm trying to get psychological control of the dog. And I do that by getting physical control of the dog first.

So they just drag when they first get here, they just drag along, lead around and I might say, saying fluffy, I have had a fluffy here by the way. There was a big dog, fluffy here. Fluffy might look at me and go maybe not. I've got the lead in my hand at the moment. It goes, yeah, maybe.

Cause you can tell from the way they look, get to bang on the lead. And that's my first, I'm not mucking around here. [00:35:00] Now you're coming in. It's not a bad thing, it's just there is no choice. Or if it's dragging the lead and just keeps going, I'll just stand on the lead and go, you, I'll just make a sound.

Cause dogs can't speak English anyway, so they get everything from body language and tone. That's right. A lot of a, which would've been what my mother would've done when I was up as a child. Just they were, if got mom and dad, dad never hit us. Mom. Would hit. But I think that was a deal they made.

Dad, I think he wanted to hit us, but he but you knew mum was serious and if she went, what? Like that you just knew, huh? I know what the next step is and if dad made any sort of sound that wasn't pleasant, it would stop immediately, because something's gonna go on here.

And I want the dogs to have that same sort of thing. I'm not saying that's the way to raise children or anything like that. I'm not, I'm just going That's, you learn those things and I learned the sounds, those sounds instantly went into my head [00:36:00] of right muck about up stop now, different when you're a teenager cause you're going Yeah, whatcha gonna do?

And rah. So you get dogs that training that are teenagers and they've already, that they can just test the boundaries. So you've gotta be much quicker on that lead. And what I'm trying to do is that I'm also trying to catch them doing the right thing so I can go yes. Just, so I'm giving them their food and they're going, I'm gonna eat the food, and I'll just step over it or I'll tap 'em on the nose and go, ah, like a dog might growl.

And they'll all look at me like, what's this thing I've never, might try again. I'm making these stupid sounds. I dunno what that's gonna come across. Like in the, on the change it with a little honky noise. It'll be like a little clown horn. That would be fun.

I can't get that outta mind then. So you get, they do something and I'm standing over them and I'm doing things like that. So they go, [00:37:00] okay, then I can go, yes. And then that's a different tone and they'll. Work out pretty quickly that's cause actually my dogs can sw they're watching me now.

They're up in the backyard in their cages and they're seeing me do the yes face and they're all jumped up oh, it must be time to come out. Cause that's generally a good thing. So catching them doing the right thing is as much as catch them doing the wrong thing. That way you double your you speed up your training and you double your training potential in any given situation.

You're driving along in a in the buggy or you're walking and one of the dog look, sees a sheep and looks at the sheep. They're allowed to look at stuff but they can't yoke up. And what I mean by yoke up is it's a difference if you walk into a pub or a bar and some guy looks at you.

If he's just looking at you to see if you are his friend that's coming in, or you just, here you are, the door creeped open and they look around at you. There's a difference in the way he looks at you and the guy who's half full of gro and just going, here's [00:38:00] yes, idiot guy might give him passing out.

There's a different look. And that, look, when you walk in, you're just, oh, geez, here we go. I'll, I'll be on the balls on my feet. I'm ready. So dogs know that that look from you. Also, they will give you that, they will demonstrate that, look, if they're interested in a sheep or a kangaroo, they'll stiffen up.

They'll, they'll move forward. So at that moment, it's just, it can just be, ah, and the dog goes, oh, negative. And you can blow that cheek outta their head, cause they're just going negative. Something's associated with that is wrong. Or if they look at a pig and the dog is unsure, you can go yes.

Because you can see that they're trying, what am I supposed to do? Because you can overtrain a dog to the point where they will not make a decision. And pig dogs have to make I've seen that decision. Yeah. Yeah. They have to make decisions out a kilometer away from you out of sight. What do I do here?

They have to be able to go this is what I do. Rather than, oh, I better run back and check. And I've seen, I've had trainee [00:39:00] dogs here that would run back to check with you and you've gotta go, instead of going for, you don't get it. That can freak a dog out. You've gotta go. Yes. Go and make contact with, that's the hardest thing.

I'm impatient and I'm tampered by nature. But you have to soften all of that tonks, Greg Tonkins has been good for that. He's helped me because he's a properly trained trainer of animals and that's where the elephant thing came from. He said, you can't be he ill tempered with a, an elephant.

I'll just kill you. You have to find another way. And you can't force an elephant, do anything. You can't actually force a dog to do anything. So just the instinct there yeah. You're saying yes to this instinct? No, to that instinct. You try to breed 'em so that they've got more of the good instinct than less of the other instinct.

But most of my training is based on long lead work so that you [00:40:00] can communicate with the dog in any given circumstance. Cause there's a distance at which a dog gives up, and I've found it's about 15 to 20 meters. So about 15 to 20 yards. If you can physically control them at that distance and you're consistent about it, there is a point at which that may as well be 200 meters, but you can control 'em at that same distance.

So I can't, I haven't done a scientific study. I can't cite the research or anything like that. I, that's what I've found from my experience, so that's why I like the long lead. E collars are the same if they're used correctly, cuz you're giving you that distance at which you can communicate with a dog.

And people using an e collar cuz you can't use them legally where I live in New South Wales. So you have to have something else. And then enter your long line there, that's your, that's remote way of communicating what I'm hearing that I really like here and I think it's something that I really agree with entirely that you get a lot of people that dogs can do this or that or house dogs that can,[00:41:00] understand how to stay out of the way.

But legitimately they can tell their look at their dog and say no, and the dog will sit there and like wag its tail and you can sit there and phrase it and sometimes it'll like just raise its eyebrows as it walks by, so you're saying it's super important that you have a means of communication?

Just like playing the game like hot and cold, I guess is what we would say. Warmer as you're trying to find this thing. And then colder. Wrong, and then, but the dog can interpret that. It doesn't have to be complex. No. The simpler, the better.

You don't wanna introduce a whole lot of things to the dog has to calculate. It's a really simple business. Find pig stop pig, if necessary. Grab pig, let go of pig when I say if necessary, run on, get the next pig while I deal with this one. So there's very simple process. Don't chase anything else.

Don't react to anything else. Don't smell anything else out. Some of that is management in the field, but and it's, it is an absolute credit to the genius of dogs is that [00:42:00] even a very ordinary trainer can get pig dogs to do that cuz the reward is so great. The biological fulfillment for a pig dog is massive.

It's more than any bit of cooked chicken you can give them. And it's more than the pats on the head. They're a large predator that and they get to make contact with an animal. All the throwing of sticks and all of that is all prey, bass. The predatory behaviors. Yeah.

Yes. And we modify it and go, isn't that cute? He loves to bring the stick back. No, he's bringing back the animal that, that's in his head. He's having that little fantasy. These dogs don't live a fantasy life. They live a massive life, a massive dog life. They live with a team of dogs, they.

They get to hunt, they get to hunt, express their instincts, yeah. They're a dog. They're not your fur baby. Oh God. Hell, I hate fur, baby. We all hate that. Yeah. And that's the thing I tell everyone is that hound hunting like dogs. These dogs your fur baby wishes it was one of these dogs.

Oh [00:43:00] yeah. Yeah. They live for it. When I fire up my Polaris to get going, it doesn't matter if I'm just gonna go take your trash to the dumpster, I fire up that Polaris. They go insane. It's on. Yeah. Yeah. And so I just, I love that. And other signals like that. If I drop the tailgate on the trailer that the Polaris goes on, oh, my dogs just set off.

Cause they going, it's on. I only got about 15 minutes left, Ned, so I wanna make sure I get everything I need outta you, brother. I think we're gonna have to wrap this up pretty soon, but Yep. I do want to ask you, this is a simple question and I ask a lot of people. I wanna ask you when you're, so you're leading in.

And are you dumping these hype your cats, dogs from the vehicle to go out to the bay or are you kinda speaking in with them? No, I'll walk in to see what it's, ah, cause you can't always see 'em. Course. So I wanna know cause my part is to get there quickly and get hold of it. Gotcha. Yeah. Yep. So I'm walking in, I'm, I made little quick release leads and things like that so I can walk [00:44:00] in with the dog I'm gonna use, I still do use those dogs loose on the vehicle, but mostly I'm walking them in. Now I'll walk in. It's a nightmare for the dogs cause they still have to behave and they're just vibrating.

They're pump. Yep. They're pump. They know what it's, this is new for them being controlled like that. Normally it's just they hear that and they go, and not only that, those dogs are finders in their own right too, Oh yeah. They know. A lot of times in the state size we got strict Bay dogs and strict catch dogs.

And your catch dogs are fine dogs in their own right. It's just now that you're utilizing Bay dogs from time to time, gotta set the table. It's, I've changed. The dogs haven't changed. They're still the same breed, the same line. I've changed because I'm too slow. Yeah. Get there. But you're adapting and then that's cool that you're, you can already bring up a new type and it's so crazy too.

I've heard this before from Australian guys, fans of the show talking about using sheep dogs as bay dogs and they're like, they're really good at it cuz Bay Oh yeah. Is like herding and yeah. Oh and some of them just have that, [00:45:00] a genetic predisposition. There's something about pigs that does it for 'em, that it's just they want pigs.

And so we're always looking for those ones. Like they can pop up anywhere. I've met people like that too. And I like those kinds of people. It's so yeah, I just, I walk in with the dog when I'm happy that the dog can see what it is. I'm also going, if it's in a blackberry bush, I would reserve the right to go.

No, I'm calling the sheep dogs out. I'm not going into that bush. Cause a blackberry bush might be 500 meters long. Yeah. There's a couple on one of the stations that I go on that are 500 meters, 700 meters long. They're really bad in the Pacific Northwest too, and they are horrible. When you said Blackberry, my skin crawled, oh, yes. Ugh. So I was gonna ask you too, what's the biggest boar you've ever caught? And you can say in kilos, I'll translate for us Americans. What's the biggest boar you've ever caught? I caught two in Central Queensland. Central Queensland is the state is above us and that's just a part of Queensland, central Queensland for some [00:46:00] reason, they're massive there and guys get lots of big ones.

I got what I reckon was two brothers a week apart on a, off a saw crop there. The first one dressed 175 kilos and the second one dressed 170 kilos. That's about 400 odd pounds or 300 and something pounds. Yeah. So 3, 3, 3 85, 400 pounds. That's a huge pig. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, massive. And I couldn't get my hand all the way around his leg, to try and to try and hold him.

And he was just pulling me along like a bullet hood, like a steer. Wow. I just, and I was just shit scared. This is a bore, not a bar, right? This is a bore hog, so that is, yes, you, yeah. Massive. And I don't talk about the lot because I, at that time I'm not carrying a camera.

I took a photo of the head of one when I got it home and things like that. But credibility's everything in the peak hunting world. And I don't wanna get into an [00:47:00] argument with people saying, oh, there's no way you did that. I know I was there, but I'm by myself most of the time.

But That's what we caught. And the next weekend I went out to the same place and off the same crop, but on a offed through a different fence. I got, the other one, I never got a big one like that again in my life. The biggest then, oh, 110 kilos, 115 kilos, that sort of size. That's a big bore here.

It's a big more anywhere. Yeah. That's two 50 pound pigs. Yeah. That's dress, that's with the guts out. They add a little bit for that, but I always bec because the weighing them used to be with their guts out at the chiller. That was the measure. And now people are weighing them with the guts in and saying, oh yeah, you've gotta do that, because that's what the dogs dealing with.

And to me it doesn't matter. Just say whe whether it's guts in or guts out, full empty. And then you, then I can adjust in my head. Oh, okay. That's a, but anything over a hundred kilos here is a big bore, but Central Queensland for some reason, It could it's great cropping country and great cattle country [00:48:00] and things like that, but Oh my God, they're massive.

Yeah. A lot of big ones in the northern territory too. Northern territory is like Florida and Texas put together. And there's right at the top, that's where the crocodiles are and the swamps and all that sort of stuff. So there's big flood planes that just never get hunted. There's this big said that are, generationally untouched.

So eventually they get very big. But anyway. What's your, what's the best dog you've ever had? What was his name and what kind of dog was he? Dave, it's the best dog I've had. He was one of ours. He didn't last long, but he was he was the best dog. He might be the best dog I've ever seen. And oh, when he got killed by a pig and oh, I was just, I couldn't taste sweet for about six months.

Everything was just, Yeah. Didn't care about anything. What was he made up of? What kind of dog? So he was one of ours. Wolf found ulterior deer hound and, maybe a bit of English, massive way back when, or a bit of, something like that. But it's been a long time since it's been anything pure over it.

Big he [00:49:00] would he a powerful dog. Holy, he smoked. Yeah. He wasn't terribly big. He was about 30 kilos, 32 kilos. So you can work that in, in pounds, but he would abs he could find, he'd find 'em in my yard. Like he, he could just find them anywhere. He was quick. Abs jump fences and absolutely picked the biggest never miss, always picked the biggest.

And the thing that made him was the be the best was you could communicate with him while he was on the big bar. Call him off and point. And he would go where you pointed. Cause there might have been a bigger one that had popped up in another going, dang. So I'd run up going Dave, and just start pointing and he'd spit out that pig and go where I pointed and get that one.

So I've never seen anything like that. Did you get pups out of him? No. No. Oh, what a loss. Yeah. Wow. I can see why you were devastated. That sucks. Oh, they're actually really attractive dogs too. We'll need to get some pictures from you put on. Yes. They take after their owners the

just crawling under [00:50:00] fences, right? Yeah. No fence jumping. But dogs end up reflecting your attitude to hunting and my nature is I want to be good at things. I want be, I know I'm, there's lots of things I'm not good at. I'm I. I don't know. You can't hunt for Australia and get, a, a shirt that says Australian representative Pick Hunter or something like that.

But, if you're getting better and I like to get better and then I like my dogs to be better and better than the dogs I used to have. And that's what I still enjoy is the trying to, I call it playing a grade. I dunno how you have organized your sports, but there's the pop level, which would be first grade.

So I like to play a grade. That such is my ego, I'm a bit competitive and a bit this, a bit that, that's much milder now. Because I'm, everything hurts on me. So I can't be too competitive because I might put my back out. That big six, seven boil stomp you down. Yeah. Yeah. [00:51:00] You slapping me around.

And there's lots of, there's lots of guys that I meet who are younger than me, but they're coming off a. A better base than I had because there's lots more good information about, and they're smart enough to listen to it. Whereas I was a bit arrogant and wouldn't listen. So I was described once as a hand on the hot plate learner, so someone says, that's hot.

I'd put my hand on her and go, yeah, it was hot then, but is it hot now? Do it again. So it's hot. Cause I proved it to myself. I didn't, I was very bad at taking people's word for things or instruction. I just think, yeah, that's what they do. But maybe it's different for me now. I listen to everyone because everyone knows something.

I don't, I just don't know what that is. So you gotta listen cuz you dunno what it's gonna be. Tonks teaches me stuff. Joe Goman he's a guy I listen to. He's the one who put me onto your your podcast. He's a good young hunter, too keen, and working on his dog breeding and. Lo loads and loads of potential into the future.

I listen to [00:52:00] him if he says I saw this, or I found that this happened and this is what I think it might be. And cause we all talk, we get on the phone and just touch base. Of course, this big pig, yeah. But he did this or the dogs did that. What do you think it could be? This could be that, what else is going on?

Sometimes they're asking me, sometimes they'll say something that just makes me think, Ooh, I've never even thought of that, but it's just so open-ended and that's what I, one of the reasons I love it. And at some stage, I'll give it up, no you won't. No, you won't. It's just not imminent.

Good. That's what I want to hear. I got we only got about what, eight minutes left. So I want to ask you about your book. Tell us about your book, where we can find your book. And I want you to rep yourself a little bit more right now. Ned you're super humble guy. Yeah. That will cause some laughter in various circles.

So the book is called The Make and Method and a practical guide to, dog training or something like that. Practical to psychology, practical Guide to [00:53:00] Dog Psychology. So what I do in that is to explain some of the theory, they're all theories and then some of the practical stuff.

How do you get 'em to do this? How do get 'em to do that? So it's an e-book. It's not a real book, it's an e-book. I can send you the link if even better. It's easy to get. Yeah. It's it's cheap. But I've had good feedback from people will get, one thing or 10 things, whatever outta it, but you only need to get one thing.

It's like a seminar. I've got a a webpage. I'll send you the website. I'll send you a link to that because the other thing I've got on that is dogs Bo a boar is behaving badly, which is just some video of pigs doing different things like killing. That's a great name for a title. Yeah. And then I've got one of yeah, aiming higher, which is about dogs doing really good stuff.

I've got one, a video of, and a, an American guy walking into a bay with a pity type loose and it's just loose beside him until he gets right out. Clearly a bay going on, it's all happening and then [00:54:00] he just goes right out and the dog's straight in and get it. Dang. I saw some of that in Texas.

That was pretty cool too. Yeah. Off, off leash walking. The in insane pit bulls that cannot never be trusted. So the story goes and this thing is just that guy clearly a good dog, but a good handler. They've got stuff like that. I've got Oh, good video of some good Australian stuff of one, one thing in particular, dogs in cattle country, they're chasing this pig.

They, that's one dog catches this ball, another dog runs up, grabs the ball, another pig comes through the fence behind them and runs past. So the second dog on, spits out the first ball runs and catches the second pig and there's a drone filming them. And so that's what I mean by this remote control stuff.

Like what you can get your dogs to do. Dang. Dang. That's amazing. That's amazing. That is other stuff like that too. Drones and thermals and things like that have really, that's what I'm trying to upgrade is some drone action for sure. Yeah. I want to get some drones. Chad, do you think it's even possible for me when a hair gets up for me to just be like, [00:55:00] radio, go get 'em?

Or do you think I'm just gonna be like a baboon? I thought at first you were talking about the dogs. The dogs, yes. Seth? No, I no not at all. I'm running with them, man. I've just put a down payment on a thermal setup to go on the buggy. And it's an Australian manufacturer and Australian design, all this sort of stuff.

So I'm going, by Australian, like we all should, which would support our own manufacturing industry. But this is the first one that's popped up. It's made here that I trust. But that's gonna provide some decent footage and I'll come back to you with some of that at some stage. And I've got a, another bloke I just met, He's got a thermal drone and he gave me some footage, which is on that.

Yeah I'll send you the links to those so that you can have a look as well and if you wanna post them post away. But I try to get back to the website semi-regularly and update stuff. But I'm terrible at it because I wanna hunt. I don't wanna be a computer guy. [00:56:00] Don't ever work for a podcast then.

Yeah. We just wanna hunt and then we gotta do all this computer work too. Oh yeah. And I, the editing is what would get me cuz you'd be going through, oh, you said something at some stage and what was that? There was about a duck and how did that fit in? And do we leave that into it? That the editing would be a nightmare I imagine.

But anyway. Sir yeah, I wanted to thank you so much for coming on the show. Chad, you got any last words, brother? This has been a great one. We're gonna be able to chop this up into two, I'm, we're gonna have a part one and a part two, so thank you Ned. It's great when we have guests that we don't have to sit here and prompt along it.

It has been great hearing about everything, man, so I appreciate that. I love pig hunting and I just got back from a great trip where I got to see some pig hunting in a different way. I've done a lot of the sight hound type pig hunting and yeah, so I loved it. So I was really excited to come and join you and I wanna just give a big shout out to all our Australian fans out there.

You guys, the bomb. When I first started working for Hounds Zone xp, I brought in some Australian people that I had been talking to about side hound [00:57:00] stuff and you guys have just been a great community, super supportive and I'm just really happy that we have a lot of fans down under. So appreciate you guys.

And Ned, thanks so much for coming on, sir. And I definitely wanna talk to you again in the future. So if you have anything, Chad brother. Yeah, what I'd like to say is, I always, coming from the animal trainer side of the house hog hunting is, in this country compared to other various forms of hound hunting or, pursuing games with hound tight breeds is relatively new.

And some of the tribal knowledge as I like to talk about it, it only goes back so far. And I really think hog hunters in the state can benefit from listening to some of the stuff folks like Ned has written down on books. Ed Barnes is another fantastic example who's, chopped up some of this information and put it into books.

I anybody pursuing a career or a life. The lifestyle of hog hunting has massive amounts to learn from both of these gentlemen and all, everyone has their own [00:58:00] style. There's. Wonderful nuggets that you can get little cherry pick things that work for your style and just don't become stagnant.

Don't become stagnant there, there's knowledgeable people here like Ned, that we can learn from. That, that's all I'd have to share. All right. Thanks very much guys. As I, I've really I've appreciated the opportunity. I'll talk about pigs and dogs all day.

Ultimately the final thing is that I just want everyone to respect their dogs. Give them the best food, give them the best accommodation, respect the work they do, because it's, that's a, it's a massive undertaking going and confronting a poor pig. It is, as we say here at all mixed up, hunt 'em hard and treat 'em like heroes.

Thanks. There it is, Ned. Appreciate it, brother. All right. See you later. Bye. Bye. How many times do you hound doers, catch yourself thinking about an awesome hunt you had, or retelling this great story with family and friends around the dinner table and all? You have to remember that moment is some terrible cell phone picture, or worse, no picture at all.

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Check 'em out you guys, and support people that support Hounds men and help keep us in the field and remembering those times forever.[01:00:00]

So the thunder from down under, huh? There. Isn't there a, isn't there a male burlesque show called that? I Ned, I knew it. They called him the bore hog. Is that right? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Hey, did you guys know the official name for the stink that a boho makes is called bore taint? Like tainted meat Or are we talking anatomy?

The smell. And I know this because you and me Googled. I was like, I had to know guys, we were talking about bore hogs. Me and Chad were, we were on the subject of pig hunting and I was like, what is the bore smell? What is it? What caused it? And so when we Googled it, as Chad, we were there eating snow crab eggs.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It was, that's how bougie we are. That was my first time. It was delicious. Anyway it's called Bore Taint, and it's a [01:01:00] mixture of petrifying feces in their fur that they intentionally leave in there mixed with a pheromone that permeates their fat and skin tissue. So that smell, it has a name, the pheromone, I can't remember.

But that smell permeates into the fat of the animal, and that's why their meat has that smell. But the majority of the smell is on the outside of their body and it's into their skin pores and petrifying feces. So hot bore hogs. Hot. Yeah. Def definitely wanna wash 'em ahead of time.

Definitely give him a bath. Yeah. That's always, that's something that we've always done. You like, you hang 'em up and wash 'em, Don soap, wash 'em, like whoop, scrub 'em down. I get all that fu genius. God, like you said, the petrifying feast. God, that just sounds horrible petrifying feces, huh.

But why do the b Why do the bar hogs and the sows don't do that? I guess the bores intentionally get the putrefying feces on their fur, and it's a very [01:02:00] thin layer. It helps a, as the, as what the article said, it helps accentuate that particular pheromone to make it extra pungent. Yeah. Yeah. I've whenever I rub it on myself I never like to put it on too thick either, like a thin layer just ae do you like behind the ears, and you're good to.

Yeah, I think they got it figured out. Just a thin layer. That's why I saw so much dog just soap in your house. That's it. Your wife's Chad. It's not sexy anymore. Yeah, I don't think it ever would've been, man. That, that, that is pretty rough. Oh, good. Hey, thank you guys for joining us here at all Mixed up.

We freaking we value every one of you so much. Go check out these, the talks more with Mr. Make and a lot more your bonus content on the Patreon page. And yeah man, this was a good one. I had a great time as always. And there's a lot of cool stuff in the pipeline for all mixed up as well as Homan XP in general.

Go to the Patreon page for H [01:03:00] X P happenings episode. That's where me and Chris and the team come together and talk about stuff that's in the pipeline for Hounds Zone xp. We got some really cool promotions coming up soon, you guys. And There's gonna be some fun travels in the works for all mixed up.

I'll let that out right now on the show, but me and Chad are gonna have more awesome adventures and we're really excited. Chad, take it away, brother. Let's let's hunt 'em hard and treat 'em Mike, hero rose. Boom. We'll see y'all next month. Looking forward to it, everybody. Bye.