The Journey on the Houndsman XP Podcast Network is on a quest to find the most elite trainers in the world. Heath goes to Spain, interwebs, to visit with one of the premier man trailing experts of today's time, Miguel Carbajal Porto. Due to a language barrier Heath has Louis Baglietto translate for Miguel.
Louis is a retired British K9 police instructor with over 30 years in the dog training world. Miguel is a school teacher that was raised with hunting dogs. Miguel switched to man trailing because of the love of trailing. He has written two books, while he is working on the third. Miguel has also invented an awesome tool to help assist him in the training of trailing dogs. (Listen in to hear about it) Louis and Miguel travel around teaching and trailing dogs throughout the country. Miguel's training method is embedded deep in the natural instincts which drive a dog to trail. The three barely scratch the surface on Miguel's training methodologies. There is so much information in this, you may want to listen twice. The Journey is just warming up, you don’t want to miss this one.
[00:00:00] The Houseman XP podcast Network is taking you on the journey. Your host, master trainer, Heath Hyatt, will combine his decades of experience as a homan and as a professional trainer that will light the path forward and make our PACS lighter on this lifelong journey to become better hunters and hounds men.
There are no shortcuts. So lace up those boots and grab a dog leash. The journey begins now.
Hey guys, the journey on Hounds Man XP is teamed up with Gow Wild. Gow Wild is a social media platform that was made for hunters by hunters. If you guys and gals have listened to any of the other podcasts that I've been on, you know what a huge outdoor enthusiast I am. [00:01:00] I love being in the woods, my hands.
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Welcome to the Journey on the Hounds Man XP podcast. I'm your host Heat Hyatt, and I could not be more excited to bring you today's episode. I have been fortunate and blessed enough to make acquaintances with Lewis and Miguel, and I cannot pronounce their last name, so I'm not gonna butcher 'em. They'll do that in their own time, but they're from Spain.
Lewis is retired canine police instructor with over 30 years in law, the law enforcement world. Miguel [00:03:00] started hunting with Hounds at a very young age. He is a school teacher and he continues to train dogs for search and rescue, and he is an expert in man trailing. There is so much knowledge and information packed in this episode that you're not gonna wanna miss it, but here's the, here's this catch.
Miguel does not speak English, so I had to have Lewis translate for him. So there is a lag in some of our questions and answers, but I promise you, if you bear with us and let Miguel finish talking to Lewis, you are gonna come out of this episode with your mi with your wheels turning. I'm telling you, they are gonna be spinning at a hundred miles an hour and we are just getting started.
We did not scratch the surface in this episode of what [00:04:00] Miguel brings to the table. So he's an author, he's wrote two books. He's currently in his third book. He has developed an awesome, some of you guys are gonna flip out when you find out what he has in invented to help him train tracking dogs.
Trailing dogs. Sweet sweet little tool. In fact, I'm trying to. Get 'em to hook me up. I'm gonna try to get one myself for my, for me. But guys, this is jam packed. I'm telling you. Bear with us on the language barrier, and you're gonna come out of this with a lot of ideas and a lot of new training, t tricks and tips that you're gonna want to try to implement.
So sit along and join us on the journey. The journey on Hounds Man XP has teamed up with one tdc, this dual action support for oral health and mobility in our dogs. This unique supplement is [00:05:00] so effective that it is recommended by top veterinarian experts worldwide to maintain and improve our dog's health in four different areas, their oral health, hips, joints, and muscles, skin coat, energy and recovery.
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We have got some international people with us. We are honored to have them on with us today. And because there is a language barrier, we've got a translator, so there's gonna be a gap.[00:06:00] Lewis is gonna translate for Miguel. We've got Miguel on today, and I'm gonna let Lewis just go ahead and introduce hisself and then introduce Miguel.
That way I'm not butchering it with my Appalachian American and you guys understand what's going on. Lewis, it's on you. Whenever you're ready. Hi. Thanks, e great pleasure being, giving us this opportunity to have this as chat. My name's Luis Bonito. I'm British, actually from down Downland, south Spain from Juta.
My, my background is operational from customs and police dog handling. I started as a, as a drugs dog handler. And then I passed on to the British Police as a dog instructor doing general purpose dogs. Basically I started the dog world back in 1985, I think it was. I'm retired now and totally retired.
I've got my own company do some bit of training and stuff like that. And I met Miguel about five years ago through the Spanish Federation Month [00:07:00] training. That's where we met we, we We have the same philosophies and we put the same things, and that's what put here.
Okay, so Miguel. Miguel, he comes from the north of Spain from region of . He started in the dog world back in 1988 with hunting dogs. Then a year later, he started in 19 nine with in sporting dogs. And then in 95 he, his first contact with the search and rescue world taking part in the search and rescue team.
He's been working with dogs ever since, and his old world has been center around dogs. He's actually a music teacher. That's his real profession. And he's grateful being, being invited here to be able to talk about dogs, basically. Yes. What Louis, what did, what was he as hunting? What did they, did he hunt when he started?
What was that about?[00:09:00]
Okay, so he started training hunting for rabbits and game bud. And he used to train dogs, both to track and to to lift up the game.
Then he would also train other dogs for clients for wild Bo Foxes and any other animals that they require dogs for. Nice. Yeah. So I think that's what gets a lot of us, people that like to track, which, that's what got me into Hounds was the tracking short story, the very first time my, my great-granddad owned Fox Dogs and Coon dogs, and I really hated them because they barked all the time.
They were out, they were tied out back behind my [00:10:00] bedroom. We lived literally right beside my grand, my great-grandparents. But we had shot a bear year, years ago, and my buddy had bear dogs and he brought those dogs over the next day and we started tracking. And when those dogs started opening on that track, you're walking through the woods and they're telling you a story about what has been there.
Like I was hooked immediately. Hooked. Okay.[00:11:00]
Miguel doesn't hunt anymore, although he is got friends who has hunting dogs for a while, boy. And now and again, he'll go with them, not for the actual hunt, but for the actual tracking. But being able to track and see dogs tracking through those wild have been, for, and that's a pleasure.
Not the actual hunting, but the actual tracking of the animal. Yes.[00:12:00]
The last time we went while he was, when they get to the undergrowth, they try and find where the entrances and es are around that area. But he was so emotional in part that he got down on his elbows and knees and started following [00:13:00] the dogs through the undergrowth.
All into trying to look to see where the While Bo were, and he was thinking to myself, to himself, if the reason why Diana Malin here, I'm a gun. He's gonna have me for lunch. But it's still it's high emotional high, high pumping. He just loves the, the idea of going, following those doors while whilst the hunting down the the wild ball and he can see the footprints on the ground.
And it's that's the best part of hunting fo
last year. I did he went to one of his best pad. He is actually a breeder of Spanish bloodhounds. It's a very typical breed up north. And they track for 24 kilometers. [00:14:00] And that was really a great experience for him. Oh, wow. So Louis, I was just I was trying to pull up his post from yesterday, but this caught my attention and I think we've skipped over that.
How many books has he written?
written two books in Spanish. English written two books. Written two books in Spanish. He's actually starting to write a third one. But it's actually got two, two books in Spanish which the first one has already been sustained to English, and hopefully the second book will be translated to English soon.
And he is also, he's also been asked to have the first book to stay into French as well. Nice. And they are all on, and I'm looking at one, it's the man trailing. So it's, is it on How to train a dog? Is it what, on what is it exactly on? It's [00:15:00] the mythology that he uses to train the dogs technology that he has patented to help him train the dogs.
And basically explaining how he goes, his process of training these dogs for Man. And that's gonna lead us into our next segment here. So we want to talk about his methodologies and philosophies. But first, real quick the dog that, that, I've got the video of the little, it looks like a blue dog.
Tell me about, its breeding or what? It's out of the la the last video? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's red Lab. Red lab ago. No, it's a, it looks like a blue tick. Hold on, I'll show you. Oh sorry. Yeah. I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, gas and blue. Yeah.
So it's small, like for me it's a lot smaller and tighter built than the gaskins that I'm used to [00:16:00] seeing.
okay. So there, there are three, three types of petite. The big one, the gram petite. Yeah. And then he, yeah. And then the small one he's got a medium one. Yes. It's a very nice looking dog. Very nice.[00:17:00]
These medium sized ones are used for hunting over hays. And they're specifically been bred for hair hunting for rabbit. So they hair is hay. Hair hairs. Hair rabbits. Yeah. Yeah. Rabbit. Yeah, rabbit. So they have to track for long distances because they move around a lot. And so they need to be nice, nicely size, to be able to follow these guys.
Okay. And on that post, cuz you and I talked about it briefly earlier, Louis Miguel had posted that there's a distinct difference in tracking man and animal. And you and I both agree cuz we've done it, we've done both. Like I, I've been hunting animal for 30 years with Hounds and I know that my success rate with animals, Is a whole lot higher than it is cracking a man.
So let's talk about the differences. Okay. That you guys feel like what's the differences and maybe we can, okay.[00:18:00]
We say something, everyone that distract animals, Have received has received a special le lessons from the dogs
because animals don't make it easy for you to find them. They make it difficult. But this one for dogs is natural [00:19:00] instinct. Instinctive animals make it difficult for them.
Just to make note of this through generations we've been able to breed certain dogs to follow certain types of animals. Plant ones, fish. Yeah. Nothing.
Born with instinct to, to track foxes, although you can train to track other animals, but instinctively they are born with that instinct to track foxes.
Miguel is talking about Spanish now because there's been certain breeders that have bread dogs specifically for that kind of animal.[00:20:00]
Yes. Other breeders using the same dogs or same breed of dogs have bred them to hand rabbits. And those dogs when they're born, they have a tendency to prefer going after rabbits per, but in reality, we don't have dogs, especially red humans. Yes.
Yeah. The dogs that were originally bred to hunt animals are humans have been, they've been bred into show dogs and stuff like that. And we don't have any real breed that is bread to hunt. Humans
adds going to add something, which is very cruel with which he does not agree with, but he's going to, he is going to take it anyway.[00:21:00]
When they used to,
When they used to breed certain breeds for certain animals, those are puppies that were not suitable. They would be discarded
but nobody has done that with breed dogs for human tracking.
He says it doesn't agree with that. And it's cruel, but it's a reality.[00:22:00]
So nowadays with the knowledge of lots of people out there that know a lot about breeding, if we start breeding start breeding dogs, train them for human tracking, we get those best dogs and we breed them and we start doing again, the process of getting the best dogs from that litter for humans.
Eventually we would end up with a certain breed that will be specific for human hunting, something that hasn't been done[00:23:00]
Okay. When we're going to select a puppy for a specific hand, we'll, we'll tease them with a piece of hide. And we see that some of them are more inclined to bite and others are afraid of it. So we start selecting the best ones from that lit. Yeah. If we can do exactly the same with the humans then as from the room of the puppies, we can see which, which of the dogs are more, they've got more interest for that human sin than others.
We start selecting those dogs and go through the process of selection to make sure that we can get a breed of dog. That, that just has a passion for human sense. Like any other.[00:24:00]
So what we have now is hunting dogs that we are actually training for humans. Very good human tracking dogs, but they still have that instinct to hunt animals. So when they come across any human, any animal scent, instinctively the interest is gonna be there. So we now have to clean those dogs off the animal scent and make sure they ignore the animal scent, and they just stick to the human scent.
That's what we have Pression now.
So what Miguel does is when he is working with the hunting dog [00:25:00] and he's training hunting dog, he thinks to himself you've got a love for rabbits, but I'm gonna give you something more to love than rabbits at the end of that track. And I'm gonna try and turn that balance in the favor of what I want you to really track and not what your instinct is telling you to track.
So the reward has got to be a much higher value than the animals' instinct, naturally instinct to go on track for. For Rabbit, because it's been bread for rabbit, for example,
when working with these types of hunting dogs, He works on the strongest principle of dogs, which is the survival instinct. He works on the survival instinct of the dogs. Okay? Yes. When we train, we use, I use the three, three things, fruit, water, and air. And food is a [00:26:00] huge motivator because the dog has to use, has to survive, and he has to eat or survive.
Yeah, exactly right. That's correct. Yeah. Luis, just start walking us through because the The conversation I had with Clinton, like it really piqued my interest. And I wanna learn because I have a puppy now that's, she's 12 weeks old. I didn't get her until she was nine weeks, so I'm a little bit behind the ball.
But go ahead and tell us about Miguel's philosophy and what he does when those pups are born, if he raises them, how he starts imprint and odor, and how he works off of that as they mature. Explain.[00:27:00]
So the first thing he does is he acquires a scent, an order, which is not accessible for a,
okay. So if he uses human scent and he uses a human scent, and then there's his human scent and some other human sense, then he cannot manage that center he wants to use because it's too much human center out.[00:28:00]
So the first thing that he does is he will invent his accent.
He uses toilet water, which is specific for babies non-alcoholic. Water, basically. Mp,
so he impregnates that water down cent the puppies, so the puppies will associate that scent with food. Instinct.
You can do that with a puppy that's three, four months old with a three or four years old, or with newly born puppies.[00:29:00]
Okay. So if he is gonna start off with newborn puppies, what it does is he will impregnate a sterile ghost with that scent, that center of water. Yep. And the night before the beach gives birth, he's going to a tits, a glance with that scent. So we don't know, scientifically, we still don't know whether the new newborn puppy searches for the glands via smell or via heat. We're still, scientifically, we're not a hundred percent certain all that.
Okay, but what he does is he puts that scent on the beaches glance before the publisher born. And every other day that the dogs, the puppies, are going to feed off the mum. [00:30:00] So that scent is there all the time. So they start associating that scent with the food. The journey on the Helman XP podcast network is sponsored by OnX.
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Okay. At the same time, what he's doing that is going to have samples of centered ghosts from different humans [00:32:00] that he's acquired from family, friends, neighbors and stuff. And when the puppies are sleeping, he's going to lay those ghosts around the puppies. Now, the puppies are not associating that human sense to anything, but that human sense is being recognized by them, although they don't associate it to anything else.
The per the the
The same thing with animals scent. So you get IED with horse scent other dogs, animals, whatever can get around and it will alternate at night when the puppy is sleeping. Either put the human scent go or put the animal scent go on top of the dog so that they're actually recognizing those things is that to desensitize them [00:33:00] from that odor so they don't pay attention to the horses and the goats and the cows, or.
I'm getting ahead, Emma. Yeah. You're getting ahead. You're getting ahead. Okay. So now he has 3 cents. The human sense animal scent and the scent Water maid.
The one that gives the dog food is the fragrance scent. Okay. Okay.
When the start to win off the beach and start, it's gonna have the first food, solid food
the feeding replaces will have underneath sterile ghosts with the actual scent, the scent water he's been using [00:34:00] since they were born.
When they eat once solid food, now they know how to track. First time they eat solid food, they know to track.
So as from that moment, he is got two ways of doing this here, will either have a small water pump with the center water in there and he lay a little track of that scent and foot at the end. Or you is also patented. It's it's like a remote controlled buggy with a water pump, which you can actually remotely guide it and you can control the water, much water you want or scent coming out, et cetera.
And from that first moment that they eat, he will lay down a short track of that scent of water with food at the end. And they will follow that scent to the food. And now comes the answer to your question [00:35:00] before. Okay.
So as from the moment that he puts down the ghost with the centered water, he also puts down human-centered goals. And now, again,
and now again, he will get an empty bowl, clean of any scent, and he place it down on the s that's been with the animals, but there's no food in there.
From that moment, he can now track human scent without any help of the scented water that, that [00:36:00] we use. We call that the target scent. So the target . In the book we talk about target scent. The target scent we're referring to is the scented water. When we refer to the target scent, it's the center water, which is the first scent that Miguel will associate the puppies with the food.
the advantages of being able to test the dogs tracking on the centered on the centered water or target scent is it's it helps us to trail, get the dogs tracking very quickly. Because it's a sense that doesn't exist anywhere, but the way associated with the food and then it's very easy to put him onto the human sense.[00:37:00]
Okay so all those puppies that he's actually started with, this method, which are now two years old, a year old, all these puppies have a passion for human center. Just now we have a passion for human sense. So that brings me to a question through my training and experience, how many of those dog glues will.
Do you see that they want to stay with the human or is there a divide on half of 'em want to follow odor and the other one wants to stay with the odor, which would be ie the handler. Is there a breakdown there or do they all just start trailing? You mean with the, that they will know the animal scent another sense?
No, like you, so they have a they have a passion for [00:38:00] human odor. Your modor Yeah. You're trying to imprint them on human odor. Yeah. Okay. Does that make any of those dogs want to stay with the like handler dependent I'm gonna stay with you because this is where my source is.
Okay. Okay, so this is very, it's a very important point, right? When he is training dogs, Miguel as a handler will take a very passive role in the training. He will never reward the dogs. The reward is always done, or the tracking's always done with somebody else, and the track player will always reward the dog, the hand down.
In this case, Miguel, his role is totally passive. There is no interaction with the dog at all. I understand[00:39:00]
at the very beginning when the track layer has laid the track and the dog reaches the track layer will start reward the dog. And what Miguel is gonna do is he's going to take the dog away from the track layer. So Miguel is not the provider. Miguel is somebody who takes him away from the reward because his interest is always to be focused on the track player.
So he takes me away. So the dog's saying, Miguel, my hand is taking me away from my reward. I'm not interested study Miguel. I want to be with a track player who's actually giving me all the encouragement and on the road.
Okay, so with time you start building a very good bond between the handle and the dog. By the very beginning [00:40:00] Miguel is the bad man, let's put it that way, because he takes me away from my ward interest in being with him.
Some people it just very, some people find it very hard to understand this because people want to reward the dogs when they have the fines. But if you think of hunting dogs, when a dog is hunting a wild boy the reinforcement is the actual hunt for that boy, right? And then with time when the dog learns this and he's got a passion for the handling, for the scent then afterwards you can get yourself involved as a handler.
But at the beginning, [00:41:00] the hand is not a provider. The rewards given is received, reinforcement is actually received from the actual tracking and the trackle itself, which would be spice at the end of the day. It's funny you say that. Yeah. I just discussed this back in the fall with my listeners.
The five or six dogs that I'm running right now on bear once that game is dead, they're, they don't care. They, it's about the chase for them. The chase. Yes. It's the hunt. That is what's driving the My Hounds. Yeah. Yeah. They don't need that animal with a kill. Yeah. They don't need it.
Yeah. And people like, they argue about it and then they're like, no, and I'm like, no, step back and watch like the chase is what they're about. And that's exactly what you're reiterating to me. Yeah, exactly.[00:42:00]
To the track. Passionate about the track.
He never trains the dogs on the runaway method. See the running away. He never changed it that way. Never.
He's not interested. He's not interested for the dogs to see the truck escaping. He's interested for the dog to have a passion, interest in the scent on the ground, and that's what I want to follow, rather than the guy been running away.[00:43:00]
If there are some people listening to podcasts who know Miguel and they know his dogs he has Spanish Spanish bloodhounds that will get to the track layer and is, they're more interested in just continuing tracking than actually the interest of the chocolate gave the award. They just want to carry on tracking because it's what they love to track.
And that's what they interested. They might just find c layer a little bit of fun. And then the sniffing again is another track around here, which is what I want to follow. And that's what he wants to get outta dogs. They love the [00:44:00] love for the actual track. For him. These are the best dogs who love to track.
Yeah. Yeah. There's no, . Luis, get me started. I've got this 12 week old pup, and of course I'm gonna hunt. I'm gonna put her on bear. So how, where would Miguel start with this pup to get me lined out on getting her tracking. Got, now there's a, something I need to tell you real quick. I've done a little bit of testing with her.
Her attention span, she's 12 weeks old, is about that short. So that's an issue that I already see. Okay.
So what he would do is he would get a a fresh piece of bear hide, right? And implement water with that bear hide, lay down on a spray bottle with that bear, hide water down, [00:45:00] lay down a track with some tidbits of food on the actual track of the scent that you put down on the floor. Piece of food.
Am I, so am I putting food with the track or at the end of it? Yes. With it. No, first of all, you put it on it. Some of them on it, you'll see. As soon as the dog associated the smell, it'll miss, it'll jump those pieces of food. And then every feeding time you feed the dog three times a day.
Every time you feed the dog, you lay down a track of this scent and this feed at the end of the track, small tracks, which we're talking about, 3, 4, 5 meters. Nothing more than that, right? 10 meters maximum. Yeah. So every feeding time, the dog will have to follow that scent, which has already associated with food.
Because it leads him to his feed feeding boat. Okay. Yep. And at the same time, you need to introduce bear height to the dogs that they're not afraid of bears as well, like pieces of big pieces of row height. Make sure that they're not spooked [00:46:00] out by the actual row height.
Just to see the message that the Yes.
So that, that's how I will do it. First of all, spray with water mixed with the bear head. With little pieces of, just little bits on it so that he's following that scent eating. And then after that, every feeding time, it's a small track of this scent with is feeding, with feeding at the end.
We gonna showing you a piece of, okay.
Circles with bear, with the best smell and food inside. I gotcha. Circles and food inside. I gotcha. And then you can actually lay a track with, just with the bear breast smell and it's food at the end every day in mealtime. Yes.
Yeah. Three or four sessions of that.[00:47:00]
Yeah. So the first time you do is just put the spray on the ground with the food in it. And then two or three sessions over, and after that you lay a track, little bit of its food. At the beginning there will be the food. 10 minutes max. 10, 10 meters, the maximum of bare cent on the ground, and it's food at the end.
In less than a week,
you'll be laying down
50, 60 meters, a hundred meters in a week. Nice.[00:48:00]
Yeah. So the dog does not develop a killing instinct that I want to kill. The reward the animal at the end, he gets the love of following that track because it gives him his food.
Some, yeah, some people might train dogs to hunte, conservators might train dogs just to find the bear not kill it. So the emphasis must be on the actual hunting of the tracking of the dog and not the killing at the end. And that's the way he works his dogs
in this way the dog will want to follow that scent.
And most is maximum interest is gonna be following that [00:49:00] sense rather than getting the king of the end. Yes. I can I understand that? Yes.
So Louis, I didn't realize that this was gonna cut us off in 10 minutes. I want to talk about one of the things that That we was talk when we was talking about the books. I want to go back and you said the technology, has Miguel developed some type of technology that Yeah. What is developed is patented it's a small remote control vehicle.
Which has it's remotely controlled. It's got its water container where you can put in a scented, goes with human scent or target scent, whatever it is you're using at the moment. It's got a small pump and it's got a small tray, plastic trailer top. Now what you do is you put the dog's reward, meal, whatever, on the actual trail.
You put your target scent or human scent, whatever it is you're using on the water, on the water reservoir, and you can drive this remotely control vehicle, whatever you want. Depends the distance you want 300 meters, [00:50:00] 400 meters or whatever, and you can be laying down. The scent and you can control the amount of scent that's coming out.
So it can be a spray, it can be just droplets and it helps you to be able to work with the dog on your own with nobody else. So if some people say, I can't do a truck cause I haven't got a truck clear with this vehicle, you can get your partners on a ghost or somebody else's sent, put it inside that, that water container take your vehicle with you and you can practically lay it down the track with somebody else's scent that's not even there.
Nice. And you can, the dogs will actually follow that and you can use it, the imagination is limited where you can do, you can contaminate cross tracks, you can do lots of circles and contamination and you don't need anybody to help with you with obviously, ultimately you need. But it's a great help for puppies and for all the and more veteran dogs.[00:51:00]
Yeah. The advantages of this is that with the, to the end, it comes across a mechanical article that's got food on it. So the emphasis is actually on the tracking and getting to the end rather than the interest on the vehicle. Cause it's not human. But the reward is there, the passion for the track.
When we put a human at the end of that track and the dog gets to the human, what all we're doing is just increasing the interest for the tracking because he finds that high value at the end with the human. With interaction and rewarding and food and stuff[00:52:00]
with this method. We don't need runaways, we don't need runaways at the end of the track, run away the beginning because the emphasis is of the dogs having passion for the track itself. Yep. So Louis, we've got three minutes left. Yeah. Like I said, yeah, so I'm sorry. I would love to have you guys back on because we are not, I'm not even touched the surface on questions that I want to ask you.
Okay. Before we end this call, is there anything that you wanna leave us with what we've talked about today? You got three. We got three minutes.[00:53:00]
That the time we just had now is just the, that's much more things that we haven't really gone into the nitty. Yes. So would that mean that you guys will be willing to come back on here in the next couple of weeks or month and do and finish this?
Definitely. And if you have a platform that gives you more time. Yes. We can be talking here till tomorrow. Yes. I do. I used a different platform today and I will not use it next time okay. But Okay. Louis, you and Miguel I can't thank you enough. Like I said, I know we have just scratched the surface on what you guys do and the things that you do and I want to learn more.
When Clinton told me about some of his methodologies and stuff that he done, I'm like, duh, like I know this. Why am I not doing it? [00:54:00] It's happened to all of us.
Yeah. It's happened to him as well. Yeah it's happened to all of us. Yes. Yeah. So it'll be a pleasure being back here with you. Okay, good. Yeah, cuz we're under a minute now. Like I said, I'm sorry, I didn't realize this platform was gonna cut me off at an hour. So Okay, Louis. Thank you. Thank Miguel and I will reach out to you.
I'll probably reach out to you in the next day or two, and we'll try to schedule Okay. The follow up because this is great stuff. Okay. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure for me. Great. Pleasure being here. Yes. All right. Thank you guys.