Archery & Bowhunting w/ VPA

Show Notes

Hey everyone, welcome to episode 189 of the Antler Up Podcast!

On this week's episode I was joined by Alex and Jeff of Vantage Point Archery.  Jeff is one of the owners and Alex is the marketing manager for VPA.  Nothing like getting a chance to speak with individuals that truly care so much about archery and bowhunting.  During this conversation you will hear the passion and drive that Jeff has when it comes to both of these communities.  You will also get to hear Alex speak about the new Omega broadhead and how she likes to keep things simple when it comes to her setup.  We get into various topics in this conversation, from the what and why of their products, setups, the archery/hunting community, working with Joel Turner and more.

We begin this episode by hearing Jeff and Alex share who VPA is and how they are a family run business out of Indiana.  You get to hear Jeff share some of his thoughts about his hunting setup and how he ultimately believes you just need to shoot what YOU feel is the best for you and enjoy shooting confidently!  They both share some specifics about some of the heads they offer and the current affairs in bowhunting.  Both also share the experience they had with Joel Turner recently and how that has helped them and we wrap the conversation up with what this upcoming year looks like for both individuals as well as VPA. So, tune in and listen to some stories and a fun conversation with Alex and Jeff and make sure to follow along with what VPA is doing over at VPARCHERY.COM!  Enjoy this fun episode and see you next week! 

Thanks again for all the support and best of luck out there and Antler Up!

Check out the Sportsmen's Empire Podcast Network for more relevant, outdoor content!

Show Transcript

Jeremy: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Antler Up podcast, brought to you by tethered the world's best saddle hunting equipment. And we have a fun show for you all today.

What's up everybody? Welcome back to this week's episode of the Aunt Laura Podcast. We are on episode 189, and on this week's episode, I was joined by Alex and Jeff of VantagePoint Archery. Jeff is one of the owners, and Alex is the marketing manager for V P A. Nothing like getting a chance to speak with individuals that truly care so much about archery and bow hunting.

And during this conversation, you'll hear the passion and the drive that Jeff has when it comes to both of these communities. You'll also get a chance to hear Alex speak about the new Omega broadhead and really how she likes to keep things simple when it comes to her [00:01:00] setup. We get into various topics in this conversation from the what and the why of their products, the durability of them, each of their setups, the archery hunting community, working with Joel Turner and a whole lot more.

So we start out the conversation hearing Jeff and Alex share who V P A is and how they are a family run business out of Indiana. You get to hear Jeff share some of his thoughts about his hunting setup and how he ultimately believes you just need to shoot what you feel is best for you and enjoy shooting confidently.

They both share some specifics about some of the heads they offer and the current affairs in bow hunting. But both also shared the experience they had with Joel Turner recently and how that has helped them. And then we wrap up the conversation with really what's coming up this upcoming year for them as far as hunting, as far as shows individually and for v p a.

Tune in and listen to some fun stories with Alex and Jeff. Make sure you go give them a follow All their social [00:02:00] outlets are all embedded there as well. Just wanna say thanks again everybody, for all your continued support season's right around the corner. Have a good one.

Antler up

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All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. For this week, I'm joined by Alex and Jeff from V P a VantagePoint Archery. They have the V P A Broadheads. Alex and Jeff, we welcome to the show.

Jeff: Thanks for having us. Thanks. Appreciate you getting us on.

Jeremy: Absolutely. Obviously we're just talking a little bit before we, we hit that record button and it's just been awesome already just to get a chance to know you and break the ice a little bit.

And one thing is we went down other little mini rabbit holes to life already, but we didn't really go down about who V P A is. So before we do that, Alex or Jeff, introduce yourself and say what your role is with V P A. Go [00:05:00] for it. Al.

Alex: I can, yeah, I was gonna say, I can start.

My name's Alex Christensen. I'm our marketing manager really all things marketing and more and we've got a small team here, so we all wear a lot of hats and we keep it fun and stay busy, that's for

Jeremy: sure. You have the new podcasting hardware as well, so you're ready to rock and roll, Alex?

Jeff: Yep.

Yep, I'm ready to go. She's got that big smile all the time. She keeps us all happy. Hey I'm Jeff Stringer. I'm one of the owners and we laugh. I'm not sure what I do, but we, me and Alex were laughing the other day that we needed some help. So I reached out to some people in the industry, asked for help, and being such a small industry and getting some responses back it's neat to see that you have friends in the industry.

So today I'm the friend maker is what I'm trying to just make sure that we're working with the right people, with the right ethics and moving the ball forward in the industry. Yeah

Jeremy: I, that was one thing, as a teacher and as a coach, one thing I always harped on was like moving that needle in the right direction, pulling the [00:06:00] rope in the same direction as teammates and everything like that.

Like you said, when you collectively pull together hopefully good things could happen. Here's a question for you. What is, who is v p a? I know you could go online, you could look up things, where are you based out of, and are we more than broadheads? Obviously vantage point archery.

I guess if any one of you wanna really dive down into, who V P A is and really more, more than just broadheads, Alex, before

Jeff: we start on the, how long we've been here let me break this. One is, VPA is 30 families. That's who v p A is. We have 30 families. We don't hire individuals, we hire families.

So we're a group of 30 families that we run v p a and absolute machine out of Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Jeremy: That's pretty awesome.

Alex: Yep. Yeah, so going off that, we started out as a machine shop about 20 years ago, and it's, we still have that side of our business, absolute machining, and one of our head machinists, Jeff Miller, who's still with us, is a big bow hunter, a [00:07:00] big traditional bow hunter, and he just wanted to make his own broadhead and.

So he did that and gave it to his friends and it just spread word of mouth for a long time. And then the past couple years we've really taken off and started selling online and getting into archery shops. And that's the short story of how we got here.

Jeremy: And seems like he wanted something done.

He had to do it himself if he wanted it done right.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Miller's, he's just an amazing, his thought process and just an amazing machinist and a great archer and just kinda revolutionary. He is, he's super quiet. If you were to meet him you'd never think what you get out of him. But once you unleash his talents and some talents of others like Darryl Barnett and everybody on our staff has some input somewhere or the other it's a collective group of ideas and then we come out with which ones we think are the best.

Jeremy: So when you look at what kind of broadheads are you offering mainly to bow hunters, because growing up I remember how mechanicals were such a craze and [00:08:00] then it was, the three blade and seems to be that single bevel. And right now, is it right bevel, is it left bevel? And what kind of broadheads are you offering to individuals?

And I'm anxious too, like after you answer this one, I want to maybe explain what I've been doing over to my experience the last couple years and see like where you would maybe even steer me. So I guess like offer, provide listeners what your bread and butter is and like who it really pertains to.

Alex: So we do we precision machine, all fixed blade broadheads. And we really pride ourselves on having the biggest selection that we can. We wanna have something for everyone. So two blade, three blade, like you mentioned, single bevel. Really 100 to 300 grain inch and eighth cutting diameter.

Inch and a half, inch and a quarter. So really, I think we've got over 60 different broadheads now that we carry. And adding more, it seems like all the time, yep.

Jeff: But they all are fixed. That's, this'll probably be the [00:09:00] only place that we beat up on the industry is we believe in fixed.

We've had I used to shoot some of the mechanicals and we have good friends like Jay from Grim Reaper makes a great mechanical broadhead. I just, I personally don't believe in 'em, so we don't make any we actually have some designs of some that we thought would be good, but again, the whole thing that we're trying to do with practice and you know, getting people to shoot and take out variability.

In your shot placement, that, and then you add a mechanical that creates a whole different set of variables in there that some of 'em you can't control. So with a fixed blade, there's still things you gotta do to tune 'em, but you don't have to worry about it. We always say we will guarantee, hands down, our broadhead is fully open upon release upon impact, pass through.

And on the other side, you don't have to wonder if it opened

Jeremy: up nice. So I've always been, a couple years ago I experimented a little bit with, my arrow set up and I, the [00:10:00] heaviest arrow that I ran would've been my FJS a couple years ago, which would've been maybe like five 30, I wanna say, somewhere around in that ballpark.

And the last couple years, I'm a short draw and, it was more so I wanna be accurate. I'm not going out west, so I'm not shooting a white tail. Man, it'd be lucky if I shot a white tail past 35 yards. Not that I'm not confident enough to do it, which I am confident enough to do that. It's just where I'm hunting.

It's gotta be almost 30 yards are in for me to make sure I'm not nicking a small little maple sap tree or something along that, those lines. So I, speed wasn't always a big thing for me, but I'm a short draw length. I'm a 27 and a half, so I've always been a little bit. Which what is my best setup?

So last couple years I wanna say three years ago, and Jeff and Alex, I went to the heaviest one I ever used was like a 1 25. And I don't know, I [00:11:00] just feel like I've gone back to just using the kiss simple or the kiss principle, keeping it simple, stupid, basically just a hundred grain. Not going super light on an arrow.

I'm still, I still want to be at least a minimum of four 60, if that makes sense. But, what kind of direction would you steer me into? Or what Broadhead would you say? Here's what you gotta look at for us. And it, this is where you would maybe be, this is

Jeff: Ryan's section of the podcast, but since he's not here, we'll take that, which is just bread and

Alex: butter right here.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff: We don't really steer anybody. It's, again, shoot what you're happy with. You get all these people that'll tell you, oh, you gotta follow exactly what I say, and here's why. That's great, but not everybody's the same. Not everybody has the same draw length. Not everybody has the confidence and it's about building up that confidence.

Shoot what you're happy with. I'm a F O C guy. I wanna be a little heavier on the front end. The one thing I would ask you when, if you were to call me and ask about it is, what is your setup? Are you putting weights in the [00:12:00] front? So is your insert or are you running a weighted insert?

Insert? Whatever that is. And if the answer's yes, I always ask why don't you put that in the killing piece of your broadhead? Why put a big chunk of brass in there when you could shoot a 200 grain and put it in 200 grain. Have a heavier feral. Make sure you make that pass through.

Make sure you can get through the bone. 'cause the truth is to get down to a 1 25 or 100, or, I even know guys that are still shooting 70 fives. You're taking the mechanical structure of that head and weakening you. You're trying the blades are thinner. The ferals thinner. The shaft's thinner.

If you follow that up, shoot that heaviness on the front 'cause you're still getting the same arrow weight. But just put a heavier, broad head. You don't have to go to a 300, but shoot what you're comfortable with. But again, like Alex said, we have a full range because you know you better than I know you.

So you shoot what you're confident with. 'cause when it's gonna be you in the tree pulling that bow back, letting the arrow fly, you've gotta be confident. I'm not gonna be up there telling you [00:13:00] what to do.

Jeremy: What kind of seems to be the, just from customer feedback or just results basically, heck, even from within your own family, right?

Like the V P A family and customers, what seems to be your most successful head and like really cool stories and anything that you could even share from those, that would be really cool to hear.

Alex: The biggest thing right now would be our new product, the V p A Omega, which is our new single bevel that we're offering, just because we've been doing so much testing over the past several months or year putting so much r and d into this head, I feel like that's what's top of mind for all of us.

So that's what I'm excited about this season. It's something new. We worked with Darryl Barnett, like Jeff mentioned, to engineer this head to be the most durable and structurally sound head that that we could. So

Jeff: yeah, and it's been out on the market for about three weeks now.

Okay. Two to three weeks. And it's our bestseller this month, [00:14:00] but for the year. We're into August. It's our second bestseller. And that's not to say, oh it's not hard if you only sell 50 heads a year. We sell millions of heads a year. Millions. And for this thing to sneak up and be number two, It's whoa.

Yeah. So it's in the hands of some people that believe in it.

Jeremy: So what makes that one so unique? 'cause looking at it already, just, it's a 200 grain broadhead, right? So what, what makes this head so unique compared to even like what you guys have offered in the

Jeff: past? Oh, now you've got this thing down pat.


Alex: v p a omega, right now we're offering it in 200 grains, and left bevel. Really, it all goes back to, and we haven't really touched on this yet, customer feedback. That's our biggest thing, like Jeff mentioned, we're we operate like a family and we treat our customers like family. So when they come to us and have recommendations on what we should do or what we should improve or what types of things they would like to see from us we take it seriously.

So that's how this head was developed. We [00:15:00] worked with a Literal rocket scientist on this head to, to really get the science behind it. And it's got some really complex geometries for machining. It's more complicated than other broadheads we've done in the past, which was a fun challenge to really work on and see what we could do and constantly improve it.

But in a nutshell, it's really a single bevel Broadhead. And at the front of the Broadhead, I wish I had one with me. It's a double bevel, so you're getting the strength of the double bevel Tonto tip, but still getting the corkscrew cut you would get from a traditional single bevel broadhead.

Jeremy: Nice.

That's pretty cool. So when it comes to the right bevel, left bevel, just to, be 1 0 1 basically to let you know. Talk it down to listeners, just if I'm running a right vehicle, left vehicle, you wanna match that up.

Jeff: Exactly. Yep. If you're old spinner, right? You want a, the right bevel spinning left, you want a left.

The one thing Alex didn't put in there, that's the most[00:16:00] off the chart part of the omega, is you can sharpen it on a flat stone. The lay flat tech technology is the one and only out there every other single bevel you need a jig for. Some people sharpen 'em without a jig. But there's so much variability in there and how you gotta, I'm not saying you can't, but it's difficult.

Yeah. These things, if you've never sharpened a single bevel, you'll be able to sharpen this one. So here's,

Jeremy: it's funny you say that because I feel like one of the. My downfalls and why I shy away from broadheads like, like yours is because I'm illiterate when it comes to sharpening my broadheads.

I just feel like when I do that, I'm making them more dull than I'm making them sharper. Talk I guess a little bit about the simplicity of that. Like you just said it's the flat stone and even maybe even some of your other broadheads that allow someone like myself that really, I don't know, doesn't really know what I'm doing when it comes to sharpening.

Alex: Yeah. So what [00:17:00] this broadhead like Jeff mentioned, it's patent pending lay flat sharpening technology. So we actually machined down the feral of the broadhead so that it'll lay flat on your sharpening stone instead of having to actually hold that angle steady like our other single bubbles or a 35 degree angle.

You have to use a jig. Take

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Alex: maintain that [00:18:00] angle if you aren't very skilled at sharpening or whatever.

So it's. We machined out the feral for it to lay flat. So all you have to do is lay it flat, push forward on the stone, drop it, you're ready to go. We've told guys it's the only broad head you can sharpen in the tree stand. And yeah, so that's actually how easy it is. That's awesome.

Jeff: Yeah. And I don't know if you've seen our three blades, but our three blades, you can lay flat on a stone too and sharpen those.

So really getting it to where it's easy to use. And again, the feedback from the customer was, Hey, we love the single bubble. The man, we hate sharpen 'em. Can you do something about it? And with a good group of people shooting 'em, testing 'em, whatever, feedback from a ton of people is what we came up with.

And it, it is revolutionary. And we're actually coming out with a group a, another product called the Ascender Series. It's a little bit different. It's the same design. The way it fixes will be a little bit different, but it'll go down to 1 25 all the way up to 300. So you'll have that same single bevel capability to [00:19:00] sharpen, but different ways to weight that thing out.

Guys like you that want to be down in that 1 25 range, we'll have something for you. Again, opening up that offering so we're not dictating what you gotta use, you can come in, use whatever you want. And I, I think when you start thinking back to the sharpening, a lot of people have had issues.

That's part of the reason that mechanicals took off. 'cause they're using a razor blade attachment basically. And you pull 'em out of the pack, they're razor, it's like shaving your face sharp, which is great, but they're one and done. You hit something hard. You, and they're just done.

I don't think I can ever go back and I've shot probably every mechanical out there and think of one that I would wanna shoot twice. Our stuff, you can shoot twice, three times, four times. I actually just got a video back from a guy in New, he's New Zealand right Alex, Matt, and he shot I think six in Africa, six animals with the same broadhead, just pull it out, sharpened up, complete pass through.

He, I think it was a gazelle or a co, [00:20:00] I don't remember what it was, some kind of African buck today. He sent me a video on and he, it looked like he was well far forward and it went through, looked through like the ball joints on both sides. Full pass through all the way through. So I'm excited to talk to him about it.

And I believe that was the Omega, I haven't verified that he was shooting the Omega, but I believe that was the Omega.

Jeremy: Wow, that's pretty wicked. So here's the question for you. What are answer the phone, what are some of those frequently asked questions that you're getting from potential customers or people that are customers?


Alex: Yeah, so Ryan, our sales managers normally, like if somebody calls V p A, you're gonna talk to him and he loves talking to everybody. It ranges from just what would you recommend, like questions you were asking. Yep. This is my drawing, or I'm going on an elk hunt. What would you recommend, like for a specific animal?

Sharpening questions. A lot of sharpening questions. Yeah, really just [00:21:00] recommendations, I think. And people just like to talk to, we'll get a lot of phone calls about customers Hey, I just went on this hunt, wanted to let you know, I'm gonna send some pictures over. Really appreciate it.

So it, it's a little bit of everything. Lots of recommendations though, and people just wanting to talk and talk stuff through, talk through their setup and their game plan.

Jeremy: Yeah. Jeff, how about you? Anything you could add? Yeah,

Jeff: I mean we, we talked to a ton of people, right? And the, you'll hear I've, if you've looked at any of our podcasts, we really want to be the people that get up every morning and go to work and come home.

And this is a hobby. We have the opportunity to pay some big names to shoot our stuff. And I'm not saying that they're not great archers and we wouldn't love them on our staff, but I want people that, that are going out and we, they go out with their families. They go out and shoot the three D shoots.

That's who I want to be in the market for, I want everybody to shoot our stuff. We're in it for a profit. We want make some money. But the stories we love are, Hey, I took my son out and he's using a cross, but we got his first [00:22:00] buck and we're using your three blade. Or I'm setting my kid up and I want this, or my wife's starting to hunt or that, that's really what gets me going every day.

Yeah. And I'm with Alex. Ryan's better at it 'cause he can talk your ear off and he loves it. And he's such a good person to talk to. It's just making those connections. Even if you say, Hey, I'm gonna stick with mechanical. Hey, it's nice knowing you. If you get to that point where it deflects off the shoulder, call us.

We still, we'll still be here for you.

Jeremy: So I guess one of the one questions that I maybe you hear, maybe you don't do, you get asked a lot about, like the blood trails and all that stuff come, as Jeff those of you that are not, are just listening. Jeff gave you that, that little smile and nodded on the head oh yeah.

So I guess talk about that, that

Jeff: experience. So if you wanna, there's some amazing mechanicals that open. I don't know, it's, I'm sure somebody's got one that's three, four inches by now, but they don't open when they go through the shoulder. There's just, we could go through that fallacy.

So Ryan [00:23:00] always says, Okay, so ours is an inch and an eighth. Up to an inch and a half. Maybe you want a two inch, I don't know. But if you can watch the deer fall over because you passed through both shoulders, both lungs and the heart with our stuff, or you can hope that the deer falls over because you shot it with something that might've opened, might've not opened up.

Who cares how big the blood trail is? I don't need a blood trail if I watch him tip over 30 yards, right? It's, and they can claim mine cut's two and a half inches. Okay? I've seen plenty. You go watch, go on Sportsman's channel tonight. Pick out any big game hunter guy you want and watch.

Usually they shoot it. They wait until dark, they go back home, they watch the video. The next day, two days later they go and the things got rigor mortis, or it's half eaten by a Kyle. They're saying, Hey, look at this. I don't want that. I want to go find it. Run home, crack open a Coke high five each other and say, let's eat some backstraps.

I don't wanna wait for three days to go find my buck. And they don't all do that, but [00:24:00] yeah, that's the difference. Yeah.

Jeremy: So now, right now, seasons like right upon us. Guys are, like you said, even over the country. Some guys out west are getting it done right now using their setups. And you have people like myself where next time I still got a couple weeks, I'll be going out for an early season whitetail hunt, getting the fine pieces of gear.

Fine tune. Broadheads are obviously gonna be one of those, Alex, Jeff, Alex, you know what's in your quiver, Jeff? What's in your quiver? That you'll be using

Alex: v p A Omega for me. Yep. The 200

Jeremy: grain. Nice. So what's, do you nerd out at all with your arrow setup or anything like that?

I. No, I'm

Alex: actually new to all this archery stuff over the past couple years, so I'm still just trying to learn and soak it all in. But being in the role that we are at V P A, we're always just testing out different broad heads, testing out different setups, different bows that we use and to shoot our stuff with.

'cause we like to see the results from [00:25:00] everything, and we gotta switch it up to be able to speak to it and it's fun, right? So

Jeremy: That's awesome. Jeff, how about you? Yeah,

Jeff: so I've got too many bows. Ask my wife. I've got too many bows, bud. I've got a V three with some black eagle arrows with 303 blades, inch and a half.

Cut. Love it. I can stack those things on top of each other, 60, 70 yards for all you people that say you can't shoot a heavy arrow that far. I'll prove it to you. Then I've got a darton. I have some victory rip extremes with the two hundreds on there the omegas stacking those things up. Then I've got another older, I think it's a Matthews, I gotta think about this for a minute.

I got Matthews and Hoyts out there. I think it's set up on a Matthews again, it's serious Seth from Serious Camaros, and I've got one 50 single bubbles on it. Same thing. Stack them. It's, it's about putting the time in, [00:26:00] right? Yeah. It's about, like you just said, it's three weeks out and we're all thinking about dialing stuff in, making sure you're accurate.

You can make that ethical kill. That's what it's about.

Jeremy: So let me ask you, let me ask you this, Jeff. What's, what is your most important piece? That really matters to you. Like you said, you went down that whole f o c thing and is it speed, is it, the weight, is it the penetration, your force that you're generating.

What is the most important thing to you when it comes to your arrow setup? I guess

Jeff: The thing I think about every time I pull that bow back when it's an animal, maybe not so much when a target is, I want that thing I'm harvesting it to eat right. And I'm not gonna lie, I want the trophy too. If I can put big horns on 'em, shoot big horns all day.

But I want it to, I don't want it to suffer. So I wanna make sure, and that's part of what we do over and over, whether you're shooting our 1 25 or you're shooting our 300, we test test, retest, test again to make sure however you set that up, that you're gonna get [00:27:00] as long as you put the placement where you need to be.

And even if you don't, if you're far enough forward that we can still pass through that, our equipment's gonna go through that. The reason I push f o C is it's science, right? And people, I'm sure I'll get people screaming and saying that's not true. But the rocket science that Darrell provides us, shows us that if you hit something with more weight and a, the velocity can vary, but the more weight and the momentum that it's going through there, it's gonna pass through.

As long as you, you have a good. Piece of equipment on the front that's not gonna collapse or break or fracture. So I like the F O C because I've got a bigger weight on the front. I'm pushing it through. It's pulling the air. There's all that aerodynamics that they can talk about that's way over my head.

But it's just proven, even again, you start looking at some of just the video of people that hunt, understand what their setups are, and then look at their failure rates. It's usually probably a lighter arrow. And I know the bull companies will come [00:28:00] back and say, no lighter's faster and faster is deadlier.

I don't think so. You don't go shoot elk with a 22 caliber rifle. You can't do that in most states. They want heavy lead flying through the air. Yeah. Why isn't it any different this way?

Jeremy: Yeah. Alex, how about you? What's your philosophy? I like again, 'cause you're new, like you said, you're a little bit newer to it the last couple years.

Like what is your philosophy when with your setup, Really

Alex: just echoing Jeff would be, ethics is the biggest thing we all value here that we have in common. So really, I just wanna make sure I can take the time to practice and get out there and get comfortable, especially being new to everything. It's a big time commitment.

So making sure I'm actually putting the time into where I'm confident. And going out there in my equipment and also

Jeremy: in myself. Yeah. That's good. One more big question when it comes to your broadheads, and I know you touched upon it a little bit, but I want you to dive a little bit deeper with it just because you're just talking about the individual that just killed, five or six animals with that same broadhead after sharpening up.

[00:29:00] Like what makes your head so tough? It's

Jeff: the way it's engineered, it's so one we're built in u s A, right? So we, and I say that because I. Let's face it, things go to China and some of the other countries over there because you can make 'em cheap. And to make 'em cheap, you've gotta be compromising something, whether it's the quality of the material you're putting it in, or the design or the way you're manufacturing it, or any heat treatment, all that.

So we start out with a pound of cold roads still, and we end up with every, whatever weight broadheads in there. The way we do it is unlike anybody else. And people say, oh no, everybody machines, broadheads. I've been to a lot of these places. Nobody machines broadheads, like we machine them. The way we set it up is it's on the true center line of that shaft the entire time.

Nobody can say they have zero runout. It's just almost impossible to get zero runout. But ours is very low runout on any head we make. And it's the way we make it [00:30:00] and the way we rotate it around when we machine it to every blade weighs exactly the same. So we're not mimms, we're not metal injected where you get porosity and different weights.

We're a heavy feral, so we put a lot of weight in that piece of the feral. And that's what really makes a difference. And then they are we don't send out Bad product. It's just not something that we're willing to do. We would rather throw a batch of stuff away, and that could be between the machining process or the heat treat, or if they come back from black oxide and they don't look exactly right, or if we don't dur our coat 'em we're gonna scrap 'em.

We made a bunch of heads not too long ago and we, the American flag on there and the people that did it for us didn't treat 'em so they started to rust. We could have still sent 'em out and, Hey, polish 'em up, do this. We didn't. We took 'em all back, stripped 'em down, sent 'em back out to Duro, because we don't wanna send out that imperfect, it doesn't mean we won't screw up from once in a while.

But BPAs built off those 30 families doing their jobs and make sure you've got a good quality [00:31:00] product

Jeremy: and a good value. That's awesome. I like that answer. Now we were just talking a little bit about it before air, but the world of bow hunting, right? Like where do you believe. We're at with this currently in, in 2023 right now.


Alex: for it, Jeff. I know you have a lot to say. I feel like

Jeff: Yeah, so Ryan and Alex will tell you I get on my soapbox, so get on it,

Jeremy: man.

Jeff: Giddy up. Yeah. I love the industry. I love the people, I love all sorts of things about it, but I think we're fractured. So I guarantee you today I could load up six podcasts and I'll tell 'em the talking heads great people, but it seems like if I can make you look bad, I look good, and I don't understand that in this industry.

And I'll beat on mechanicals and we can have those things back and forth, but some of the people I love in the industry are mechanical manufacturing people, and they're good people and they've got good ethics and they're trying to run a good business with good [00:32:00] families. But what I don't like about the industry is it's gimmicky, right?

You can come out and you can change the color of your. Let's say you're making a widget, you change the color of it, or you put a dovetail on there or whatever, and you use sex to sell. I don't mean anything outlandish, but you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. You get somebody that is appealing to out and use it, or you get, you pay somebody two, $300,000 to be your brand spokesman, which I know is how the industry works.

But we were at tack in Brighton, no one will tell you the names we're up there with some people and the one guy's well known, and I'm standing there next to him with another guy. Listen to him trash, something that he represents. Just totally trash it. And it's blowing my mind. They said why are you doing that?

Why don't you stop? And they said 'cause they cut me a $250,000 check every year Comes back to ethics, right? I can sit in front of you and you might not like my broadheads. There's plenty of people that don't like our [00:33:00] broadheads. Fine. I think we could argue back and forth of do you really not like 'em or are you just not giving 'em a chance?

Are you mechanical? Not a fix, but it's a good product and I'll stand behind it all day. And I think it's a very ethical way to kill an animal. I think what you get for your

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Jeff: dollar that you spend with us is well spent. It's not a one and done. We over-engineer what's in it. And I think that's, that makes me proud when I look at our company we don't take a lot of money out of it. We've put in six and a half, $7 million. We've only owned it five years. And we give kudos to Jeff Miller and those guys that build it up to get it to where it's at.

And we're Nate take taking it to that next level. But it's not all about the money for us. We are a for-profit. We wanna make money. I'd be lying to you if we didn't, but that's not the only thing that drives us. We wanna be ethical, we wanna be good stewards of what we got, we thank God for the opportunities we have each day because he's the one that [00:35:00] creates everything we have and those animals we take are his creation.

So we gotta treat him well and. I think that's what makes us different. We're not all about the money. What about the

Jeremy: good? Because even everything that you said some really great things too, to go along with that. Yeah. What are, like, what are the things that you really hold dear to your heart?

Like what, like with this and your passion when it comes to this, because you know it, a lot of people are maybe listening and hating their job right now would be, would give up a lot to be, in your shoes and everything like that. And it's just funny to hear like when you're, and I know, I remember being a little bit more into fitness world with personal training and the fitness industry, every industry has that.

I feel like that broken thing, there's always that like certain topics that just shatter it, right? That always pins things, topics, people against people, but there's always that good. There's always that man when we do come together, It's something special. Could you [00:36:00] what's that one thing or couple things that you just absolutely love?

Jeff: I think it's in the same note, right? This industry, the hunting industry in general, but the archery industry is you can go meet people you've never talked to and you have something in common you'll love the outdoors. You love most, most people I meet love family. We see tons of family tack in Utah, tack in Pennsylvania, tack wherever we go is a bunch of.

Families, kids, moms, dads, brothers, aunts, uncles, all out hunting. So I think the conservationists part of the hunting side the great people, even some of the people we don't see eye to eye on, they're still great people. I still love to be around them. We're blessed to be in this industry. This is not all that I do.

I have other jobs that help pay the bills. So if you think all I can do is podcast and hunt, I wish I'm trying to get to that point. But at the end of the day, we get to do what we love. This is a hobby, right? Yeah. What I do for the business side isn't, but hunting is a hobby. It's not something I [00:37:00] have to do.

It's not like air, water, clothing, shelter. It's something that we're blessed to do. So that's the good side. We meet a ton of good people. We get to be exposed to some things that others aren't. And again I give that to God. I think we work hard. We have good families. We have good business partners.

We bless our butts every day. To get where we are. It's not given, but that's what I think. I think it's with all the, I would say the downfalls are, here's what it is, and the positives are up here, right? Yeah. Yep. But you always wanna strive to get better. And I think the thing that we can get to be better is let's come together, and we talked a little bit about this before, but and I even get hate mail about this, but the legislation about archery in schools, that was a big thing.

And we went out and we, we took a stance. We posted it out. I've seen Cam Haines posted some stuff out. Hunt Nation and some others have some stuff out there. We talked to our congressman, we got the legislation talked to some of the people that wrote the original bill, what the intent was, [00:38:00] and then what the Department of Education turned it into be, which wasn't what the intent was.

But we, when we put that out there, we got some people saying, Hey, you're just spreading false information. That's not what it is. We literally had. High schools and even lower that elementary schools that were getting calls from their districts saying, you've gotta, you've gotta figure out what you're gonna do with these kids because we can't do archery anymore.

That's how far it went. We reached out to our Congressman Jim Banks and said, you gotta help us out, because again, this goes back to not just kids shooting bulls, which is important to get kids away and outside, but this is 30 families in our business. It's millions of jobs across the nation, and it's the lifeblood of our country.

It's the Native Americans hunted, go to any continent. Then they use either a spear, a sphere, or a spear, not a sphere, a spear or a arrow on a bow and. It. It's the lifeblood of humanity. It's what fed us for centuries. And now we're just saying, [00:39:00] oh, you can't do it. And what they're, and I don't care what side of the aisle you're on, but what we've gotta watch with our elected officials is what we teach our kids today.

They're gonna be legislature, legislators in the future. So if we teach 'em that hunting and outdoors and arrows and guns are all bad, they're gonna grow up into that. And that's gonna be reality for them. It's perception now versus perception turns into reality and they're gonna legislate some of these freedoms away.

And I'm just, again, Alex will laugh 'cause I'm on my soapbox and it seems like we end up in this spot at every podcast. But just watch, what we have today, when you ask about what's great about this is it's our freedom that we can hunt. Yeah. It's not there. It's not gonna be there forever if we don't continually keep a focus on that.

And United, that's what I'll, I love about the industry is United. I've never talked to Cam Haines. I'd love to have five minutes with him. 'cause he's one of those inspirational guys that. Has made hunting his life, but has given his life to hunting. I'd love to chat with the guy and say, [00:40:00] thanks. Thanks for putting out being on.

I think he was on Lawrence on Fox News. Yeah. And not being afraid because it's easy. Again, back to the monetary side, it's easy to hide behind the curtain or hide and say I don't wanna stir it up because I might lose somebody. For me, it's not like that. I might say things that offend you and I'm really not trying to offend you, but in my life, there's right and wrong.

Yeah. And I can't choose wrong. I'm not perfect. I choose wrong. Every now and again. I'm a sinner, but I'm trying to choose. And if that hurts your feelings and I'm explaining at least my position, at least listen, don't have to agree, but at least listen. I think that's what's great about our industry is they all came together.


Jeremy: I agree with that. And to even go back to, when you were showing like how the good, you gave this like big size of how much good compared to the little inch of the bad that we hear. The only thing that goes along with that is that bad. It's just the loudest.

And that's in everything. It doesn't matter where you are, in what industry, what world you work. It's, there's a more good than bad. It's just when [00:41:00] it's bad, that's what you hear the most of. That's usually the loudest. And then to piggyback off of the whole archery in schools, obviously as a phys ed teacher, I'm very lucky and blessed enough that is actually one of the units that I do teach.

And I've talked about it on the podcast before. That's when I love the nerd out. I'm getting an individual that with our, with the way we run it, maybe they, that was their last choice. And when I get the nerd out, they're looking at me like I'm some alien trying to teach them this whole brand new language because I'm going in deep, I'm, I'm talking brace height, I'm talking axle to axle of your a t a I'm showing them the nitty gritty of things.

And then of course I'm breaking down technique. And it's so neat that over the last couple years, I remember when I was first starting out teaching this, like all the kids wanted to wear those arm guards, and I've like almost allowed them not to wear them. I'm like, okay, I'm going to teach you that.

If you have semi 80% of the form Correct, this won't happen. So I break down things. It's I'm [00:42:00] like this drill sergeant, they get up to the line, I'm like, stance, raise your bow and draw back, bend the arm. Like I, I go through everything and it's just so cool. I was going back to saying with the student, that's the maybe the last thing they want to hear.

But the first time when they've released that arrow and it hits the target, it's not even close to bullseye. Maybe they hit that target and their eyes light up and they turn around and look at me really quick. Okay, so now let's go. So then when class four begins and I teach them the scoring, and they're actually able to keep track of scoring, they're ipro improving day after day.

This individual may never want to hunt, but it's a skill that, now if they go to a summer camp or if they go outside, they might take it a little bit more serious and say, Hey, I want to go in, I want to check this out. I wanna see what this is about. It's a growing thing and it's a, it's something again that I really hold true and dear to my heart when I teach this, just because I know what it's done for me as far as a release and just to get out there.

And I know at times [00:43:00] it's extremely stressful because I'm like, man, I felt like I was Levi Morgan yesterday, and then I go out and shoot the next day and I'm like, wow. I feel like I just picked up the bow for the very first time. So I just, I agree with you. I hope we could come together and really, this is just something that, it's a hiccup in the road and nothing really ever gets done.

And it's schools fight and local school districts fight and get things right. Because again, I'm not sure what it will do to me. I know I mentioned that to you earlier just because the way things are ran here how our school runs things. I'm hoping that it's not, but if in the case, luckily I'm in the position where I'm at with the podcast where I'm blessed to have some great friends in the industry where you know I could put up the bat signal and maybe some people would be able to help out if we ever get to that spot.

But, it is it's a lot. And I Alex you're. 3, 4, 5 years in to learning and growing. You're new to this, right? What, how did, what is your process on this? Just because, Jeff's ha had, has had [00:44:00] those opportunities and you're coming in fresh.

You're like we always used to say, like with archery I talked about it before years ago, ignorance was bliss for me because I didn't care about target panic. I just knew when I was doing this, I was hitting where I needed to be. What, what's it been, what's it been like for you these last couple years of like eye-opening and what you've gone through?

Yeah. I'd

Alex: say going off that I think more recently I've realized just be natural and and just stop overthinking it. Like you said. We had a clinic we hosted with Joel Turner Yeah. Last month I think. And so it was really great hanging out with him and going over all that, all those details and check out his his course if you haven't done it already.

Yeah. But at first it was really overwhelming. Just, you go on YouTube and it's there's just information on everything and it's information overload. It's, oh, die hard this way, or die hard this way. So you don't know what to which path to go down, I feel like until you get out there yourself and just kind of figure out what works [00:45:00] for you and. And just take the time to do that. Yeah.

Jeremy: How was the clinic with Joel? Just because he's someone that I follow and really, implemented some things of, of what he's done in, into my process and some other friends and some other people that do this for a living as well.

So What was that clinic like for you guys? Go ahead, Jeff.

Jeff: Yeah, not even talking about the clinic, just meeting Joel, he's been on our, he's been one of our Pro staffers for a long time, but really the first time we gotta sit and spend some time with him. And just a great human being.

He's just a super great guy. And then going through and understanding the target panic and what you're thinking and what you're saying to yourself. And there'll be some naysayers that Joel doesn't know what he's talking about. I did it. I went through his class, and that doesn't mean I can't glean stuff from other people, but it works.

And it's more of what I got from Joel's thing, is that you can implement his thought process to life. Yeah. [00:46:00] And there's all sorts of things that drive you to panic, and it's not just about pulling the trigger on a damn bow. There's all sorts of other things that I'll sit there and say, I, I tease myself now because on the back of his shirt it says, no matter what.

And he's always saying, here we go. And I'll catch myself saying that out loud to myself now. And it's one of those habits that you've created. And I'll say, all right, no matter what, we're gonna get this done. And then me and my son were doing something there today, and I high fived and I said, here we go.

And he said, dad, would you stop with the Joel Turner stuff? And I didn't even realize I was doing Joel Turner. Just a great human being, and I love his process. Yeah.

Jeremy: Alex, how about what did you get out of it? I'd

Alex: say same thing. It was, I think it's intimidating at first, and he says that up front you are not gonna like me over the next couple hours, but we're gonna get past it.

And that it works. Highly recommend it to anybody who's interested. He has the online course and then travels around. We're hoping to get him back next year. Jeff and I [00:47:00] gotta go out and shoot the three D course with him after the clinic. And it was just fun. It was, he's just a awesome guy and really down to earth and yeah, it was a great time.


Jeff: That is it. Yeah. We gotta throw that out there. Joel said when we shot in the three D clinic, he said, look, I said, will you come back and do another one? Maybe you'll do an annual. And he said we'll see if you and Alex can go out and shoot the three D Gore without punching the trigger.

It's a yes. And Joel, if you're listening, we didn't punch a trigger buddy, so let's get the date on the calendar. Oh

Jeremy: man. We'll have to, I'll have to send him a message and be like, you gotta listen to this minute at this point in time, so then we can get him doing that. Then you have to follow it up.

Hey, you gotta go listen to this. That way he does. He knows I'm not just some creep or something. What's what's funny about the things of watching his courses, his events when he's done it, either at, with Dan Staton, from Elk Shape and other individuals. Man, it's really, like you said, intimidating.

I could only imagine I'm grabbing a pen here,[00:48:00] just drawn back. Number one, you have all these other people around you that are judging you, looking at you, right? And then you got this guy that really knows his stuff. And whether, like you said, Jeff, either you believe it or you're not.

This guy's doing something to help people and he's up there going, go ahead. Punch it, don't punch it, don't punch it. And I think back to, again, just to give you a little insight, couple years ago I was so confident I had no issues. And then I went down the whole archery rabbit hole, right?

Oh, I need to shoot a thumb button. I need to do this. And that's when I developed all the bad habits and I was on a three D shoot with some friends and something happened whether my el my, my shoulder collapsed something right? And it just, when it collapsed, it made me punch the trigger basically. And that set me off.

And there was a two target spot where there was maybe one at 40 some yards, but then there was [00:49:00] one on a incline, just shorter. And I remember, if you're in the market for finding a new trail camera, I highly encourage you to look no further than Exodus. Exodus has two main options to choose from as far as cameras go.

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And I just wham, I just punched it and I wasn't even, I wasn't even on it. I wasn't even on the target. And at that point I'm like, I'm done. I'm not shooting for the rest of the day. I kept walking and I had to build confidence up because I was going out west in two and a half weeks and I was like, okay, I'm changing releases, I'm doing this and blah, blah, blah.

So over the last year I broken every, well over, I would say last year and a half, I've broken everything down. And it's crazy how when you finally could break through and. In your mind and be okay and at peace now. And like now I could actually get a photo taken if my wife like comes with me to take a picture here and there.

Whereas in years past, I would draw back and she would have to hurry [00:51:00] up, be like take pictures. 'cause I wouldn't be able to hold my finger on my trigger basically without wanting to send it. And she'd be like, dude, leave your finger on the trigger. And I was like, dude, I can't. That was it was like one of those things.

And then she hasn't had to do that for a while until Mo most recently. And she's been hearing how much more confident. And I'll come back like, how'd you shoot? I was like, really great. I feel really good. And the other day she finally came to take some photos. She's wow, I know I don't watch you shoot really at all, but from where you were to where you are now is nighting night and day.

And I said yeah I've worked extremely hard and it's very rewarding. So something, like you said if you're, if you are really struggling I'm, my only advice is if you try something and it seems to be a little bit working, man, stick to it. Because if you if you're trying Joel's stuff, do it.

Don't give up. And I think a lot of people, that's what, not necessarily Joel stuff, but [00:52:00] just in other things in general, they just don't give it enough time. Kinda like what you were saying earlier, Jeff, like people just look at your broadheads and be like, ah, like you said, I just don't think they're giving 'em the shot.

They're just not giving them that opportunity. It's the same thing goes through trying to fix that shot process.

Jeff: That's a great thing about the country we live in. You get to make your own choices, right? Yeah. I love the I don't remember who he was with. Joe Rogan was doing a podcast, I don't know whether it was Cam or maybe he was talking about Dudley or it was when Joel was on, but he said it right.

He said, I. 'cause he did the Joel Turner thing, and I know he shot with Dudley and he's best friends, or he's good friends with Cam. And he said, I've learned something from all of them. How do you, there's one of 'em out there, and I won't say their name, but they're out there really kinda trashing everybody right now about quit listening to everybody.

I'm the expert. I've done this. I've got more dead animals on my wall than anybody. Great. You're just bragging. But you're a great shot, but you're not perfect. There's something you do that's not perfect. A lot of these talking heads, they don't tell you about the [00:53:00] ones that they shot and got away or the ones that they missed.

They just show you the ones that they kill because it's a money maker. So always stand back a little bit and even with a stand back and when somebody makes a claim, you think, wow, that's a big claim. Is that true? Follow the money, see where it's coming from and say are they tainted? Yeah.

What are they getting? Why do they have that shirt on every day? Or why do they only shoot that one bow? Is it really 'cause it's the best or is it 'cause it's the best paycheck? It doesn't mean that they're good or bad, but sometimes I, again I think that's the one thing I'd like to see is, let's get science behind us.

When you look at the N r A and munitions, And me and Darrell talk about this all the time because of war, not something good. But because of war, countries have spent a ton of money on science behind projectiles. How to shoot the best gun, how to get the most accurate, less drop. We haven't spent that much money in the archery side because you're not going to war with the bow arrow.

You might be, I mean if you're an Amazon or somewhere, but usually people don't go to all with the bow and arrow. [00:54:00] But what we're trying to do is we want to take all the BSS and the fluff and the who's paying who out of it and just go with science. So you're gonna see a lot more, the people that are on our staff are gonna be the Darrell Barnetts.

We got some other people that used to work at Southwest Institute. Somewhat of the Ashby group people that aren't on our staff that we wish we were or we have some influence in whether you like 'em or not, is I'd love to see Cam Haines understand what he's shooting, why he likes the G five, so well, and not try to convince him, but try to understand what he likes.

And then Troy Fowler, he's got a wealth of knowledge. How, what, why he likes what he likes and they're all great people with great experiences and things to add. Let's quit knocking each other down and just learn from each other and make the industry

Jeremy: better. Yeah. Amen, man. I like that. So what what's this year looking like for the two of you as far as like some hunting trips and what you're excited for this upcoming year?

Alex: Jeff's got some coming up soon, don't you?

Jeff: Yeah, I'm going to [00:55:00] Missouri with Trek and Outdoors the the 15th through the 20th of September. And then I'm taking my dad on Elk Hunt in Utah. The end of September, 1st of October, then we're coming back for the Indiana opener. Then we have some access to property in Kentucky.

Dude, we're blessed. I'm telling you. God's created a heck of a pass going to Kentucky with some friends. And then Ryan Corwell, his father-in-law has some ground down there. We'll hunt. I think we're going to Michigan. I've got a Ram hunt this year. Wow. It's just, you're loaded. I don't know how we're gonna get all in.

And then what really excites, I don't know how you have

Jeremy: time for that, Jeff. I know, right? Alex? Geez.

Jeff: You'll have to put, you'll have to ask Jeff who does he work here anymore? But then we got show season. Me and Alex talked today about show season. We've got some neat things coming up with Vantage Point is gonna be Vantage Point archery that we're a hundred percent committed to armory.

So Vantage Point Armory, archery and outdoors. And we've teamed up with a company [00:56:00] called Berserker that does some mag extensions. We got some stuff that we're hoping to do with I won't drop their name 'cause we haven't signed anything but some stuff with suppressors that's different. What else We got Alex.

We got some new risers coming out. We've got theEnd series coming out. We've got a release coming out. All really, we're just

Alex: trying to expand our U S A manufacturing and our expertise that we've built over the years for machining and the outdoor industry to more than just archery and keep pushing the limits as to what our design team and our, machinists can do.

Yeah really just brainstorming a lot of different stuff. Got some stuff in the works, so it'll be exciting to drop some more about that in the next few months. That's awesome.

Jeremy: That's

Jeff: exciting. And then a bunch of shows, I think we're gonna hit too many shows, Alex, how many.

Alex: Yeah, it's really like January, February, March.

Every weekend there's something going on. You've got a t, a Dallas Safari Club shot show, the Western Hunt Expo. Iowa Deer Classic. [00:57:00] Lancaster Classic. I. I'm sure we're missing some in

Jeremy: there. You need to look into the Pennsylvania Harrisburg show in February. Yep. Which is the greater

Alex: Yep. We're gonna be there.

Oh, all yep. I missed that one. We'll be there. Yep.

Jeremy: So that'll be the nice, eight day little nine 11 day. Yeah. I'll, somebody will be getting on my case that it, I don't know how many days, but it's long. So you all, Jeremy,

Jeff: I think Jeremy, we need some boots workers buddy. Yes, it's right in your backyard.

Come down, hang out, we'll feed you.

Jeremy: So usually the last two years what I've done is 'cause obviously I'm still teaching by that point in time and I've burned all my like time on from like ation and everything like that, like you're saying. It's not the end all. So I'll, I usually come down on the weekends and the last two years I've worked in the tethered booth.

But yeah, I'll be down there for sure and usually I'm, if when it's not as busy, I sneak away and go say hello and hang out with some friends and do some some, Talk to some other people like that. So it'd be exciting to see that you guys will be there.

So that'll be awesome.

Alex: Yeah, we're excited. It's our first time going to that

Jeremy: one, so it, [00:58:00] I'll listen, bring lots of product if you're going to be able to I don't know how Pennsylvania TAC was for you guys. It's nothing. It is insane. I've been going since I was a kid and a lot's changed obviously, but it's pretty remarkable when you have individuals come up and they just go in their back pocket.

That is a one stop shop for a lot of people where that's what they're getting for the upcoming year, right? That's their one chance where they're able to get their hands on it. They like it, they buy it, and that's, so Be ready.

Alex: It'll be a good time. Yeah. We're excited. Yeah. It'll be a tiring couple months to the year, but it'll be.

Fun. It's always fun to go to shows 'cause people are excited to talk to you and, see the product and see what's new for that year and fills the void when there's nothing else going on, I guess in those cold

Jeremy: winter months. Yeah. Hey, when the season ends, it's like that big crash, right? So what do we gotta do?

You gotta get back out there in the [00:59:00] horse and sell some product and, let everybody know how awesome the product is. That's, that's can't get better than that. And then it dies down a little bit for Turkey season and then summer and then, next thing you know we're right back in the saddle.

Yep. I like it goes by quick. Yep. Guys, I really appreciate your time talking about Broadheads again. It's like one of those things where, you know, but I'm not the expert when it comes to those single bevel broadheads when it comes to what your design really is. I've shot some in the past, not yours specifically, but your, that kind of, that design had some success, had.

Some where I didn't have the opportunities to really take some analytical data off of. But it's really cool. And I've loved love your story. I love your passion and I really appreciate what you're doing for that archery community as, as far as even that goes. So don't lose that.

'cause I know the second you lose that's when, you know you need to get out, but appreciate that. I can't wait to cross paths and introduce your hand, shake hands with you both and man, I'll tell you what, [01:00:00] Indiana, it's like one of those little sleeper states.

Yeah. You might have to come down.

Jeff: Keep quiet. We don't have any deer in Indiana. They got rid of all the deer. Yeah.

Jeremy: There's all kinds of diseases and stuff to them. There are, they stopped getting big.

Jeff: Yeah, come check out the shop. Let's do a, maybe we can do a part two podcast from the shop and have that in the background.

I like

Jeremy: that, man. I appreciate it. Everybody, please where before I do that, Alex, Jeff, where can people follow along watch anything, listen to anything and follow on socials, please plug those right now.

Alex: Yeah, so VP, that's our website. You can shop all our broadheads there, learn a little more about 'em.

Follow us on all social, just v p a or vantage point archery,

Jeremy: and you'll find us. Awesome. Jeff, anything else to add?

Jeff: Just get involved. Get involved with your youth and your community. If you're really a big archer and have some skills. I know the high schools are looking, I know the elementary schools are looking.

Get a kid off a video game. Get 'em outside. Call us if you need [01:01:00] some product, we'll help you out with that kind of stuff. But let's get kids back outdoors, away from video games, away from all this culture stuff and. Getting back to what makes this country great and it's just being outside, being with family.

Loving what you have and making the best outta what you have. Yep.

Jeremy: Preach. I like that. Everybody, please go follow the follow V P A. Really enjoyed this conversation. Those of you that, that are going to watch this, I know you're gonna see that passion, those listening, I know you're gonna hear it, so go give them a follow.

Thanks again everybody for tuning in. We'll see you next week, antler up. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Antler Up Podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Please go check us out on our Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and go wild If you enjoyed this episode, go leave a review and subscribe for next week's episode.

Until then,