Beavers, Buckeyes and Meat Lugs

Show Notes

Buckle up kids…Archery Deer season is 2 days away! On this episode of the O2 Podcast Paul and Andrew are all hopped up on Mtn. Dew, Deer hunting and trapping raccoons. The guys talk with Eric Freeland, education coordinator for the Ohio State Trapper’s Association. Erik gives the listeners a crash course on trapping in the State of Ohio. This overlooked outdoor activity is rapidly regaining popularity across the country. The heritage of modern hunters is tied to the work and history of the Trapper. Eric explains the why and the how to get into trapping critters in Ohio and beyond. It’s not as scary of an ordeal as you might think. Be sure to check out all of the events hosted by the OSTA this year.

Deery archery start Saturday. Be safe. Wear your harness. Shoot straight. Tag us in your hunting pics!

Check out the Sportsmen's Empire Podcast Network for more relevant outdoor content!

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Show Transcript

Thursday, right? This episode's releasing on Thursday. Yeah, Friday, Saturday, man. Friday, Saturday. The weekend is here. Oh my god. It's an exciting time. Is that is this the most exciting time you think for hunters in the state of Ohio? I would say so. Right before gun season, the gun week [00:01:00] is big.

It's always been big, but outside of that, yeah, I'd say so. Unfortunately, I can't really go out this Saturday, so I have to wait until Sunday, but that's okay. I'm I see I'm still trying to figure out, I'm still trying to figure out my plan for the weekend. So I don't know. We'll see what other whatever weather day is better.

And it'll probably be a Sunday. Buckeyes are off though, so I don't have to worry about that. What a game at South end, Indiana, my heart is not going to be able to take that dude. I was driving back from the NWTF banquet and Dayton. And so I listened to like half of the third quarter and all of the fourth quarter.

And so I was on six 70 getting on to the. One or like to Easton, I was right there when ship train and score that final touchdown. And I'm just in my Tahoe by myself and I'm yelling and there's all these cars around, and I'm looking around for someone else that's like yelling to celebrate so I can share that [00:02:00] moment with another human being.

And I look around and it's just all just people just in their car, like not, I'm just like, I hate this. I hate that I'm by myself, not celebrating this win with anybody. I had already in my mind, alright if you lose this one, you can go on, win the Big Ten, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Yeah.

That was... You know what it reminded me of, which is good and bad. It was the O2 team because I feel like they had a bunch of those nail biter moments, even in the national championship game against Miami. Some of you kids listening to this probably were still in freaking diapers, trying to figure that out.

It's sick, Paul. It's I went back home last weekend to my hometown and I'm sitting there watching the high school. Kids play football and I had taken my kids up and shown them like, this is where daddy played and blah, blah, blah. Reliving the old glory days. Uncle Rico.

There you go. Throw a football over the mountain. It dawned on me though, that the kids on that [00:03:00] field were not even alive when I played football. Like a lot of times for a while there was like, watch some of these kids that were ball boys and stuff or coaches kids as they moved up through the system and then they were the ones on the field.

That was cool. And I was like, these kids, they didn't see me play. Like they weren't even alive yet, which is crazy. They're hanging your jerseys from the wall of fame of mine. Yeah, no. At 160 pounds center, you don't make the jersey hanging on the wall. Like I would say linebacker, center the best of my kids ask me, did you, why don't you go to college to play?

And I'm like daddy's tiny like I played offensive line too slow too small. I was too small to play Yeah no, I'm six two Anyway, so we're gonna quit talking about football. Yes, sir We get a good episode today. We do. So this is a little bit outside the norm, right? We are going to [00:04:00] talk with Eric Freeland from the Ohio state trappers association.

Now trapping is an interesting thing that I've, I like the idea and I'm dabbling in it. And it's, I don't know, I don't know if I want to say it's dying, but it's, I don't think it's nearly the near the popularity that it's been in our continent over the last, Several hundred years, right?

We talked with Eric a little bit about the history of trapping within North America and how big it was back, in the Hudson Bay day, the company days and all that kind of stuff, the mountain men, all that kind of stuff for trade. So a lot of that's not there. Like it was, back then, but it's still a really valuable practice.

And I think if nothing else, listen to this episode and take that in to be aware and to know about trapping. There's, we really just hit the tip of the iceberg and Eric there, they've got some events coming up. He talks about, and we'll share that stuff on social media where you can go and get [00:05:00] some hands on.

I think trappings are really big for hands on stuff. And especially if you've never done it, which we did at the BHA event. And that really was awesome. So get your, get your head wrapped around it. No, I understand deer season starts like two days from now, but I want to this trapping thing. You don't want to decide on January 1st.

You know what I think about a trap? Cause then by then, like the season is about done. Yeah, you got there's some leg work that you got to do. If you want to be a trapper, we'll talk about that in the episode. And so everyone talks about, I hear this all the time. Turkeys, raccoons, nest raiders, all these things.

And people are like it's, the fur market is down, so people aren't trapping. Yeah, the fur market's down. Trapping is now, it's a conservation tool at this point. For deer, baby fawns, that fawning season for turkeys during the nesting season and the poult brooding season. There's more reasons to trap than just skin and a coon, fleshing it out and selling it like on the fur market.

Like the one thing that blew my mind talking [00:06:00] about the fur market, possum fur, he said was like one of the most popular furs. It's crazy. For coats and stuff like that. Or I'm going to, it was crazy. Yeah. And it really, I, in what I got at a hundred bucks, you basically get involved, you get into it.

It's not going to break the bank. That's one of the reasons I've never really gotten into waterfowl. Cause I just know when I'm, if I'm going to go in, it's going to be like full go and it's going to be cost a lot of money is trapping thing. It's another reason to walk in the woods. And it's another, thing you can be outside learning.

Like you talk about the conservation and the biological aspects of it. And you make a couple bucks maybe, but you feel like a bad ass like setting traps and walking out. So definitely a cool episode. It is, man. And hopefully look forward to talking to Eric more down the road. And pushing, some of their events, get some people out to those.

So I think your wife said she's going to look into the women's event. Yeah, we were at an event here in Columbus and we walked out or she met Karen. Linkart Stewart Linkart Stewart. Yeah, excuse me. And she was [00:07:00] she's great. She sits in the wildlife council and her husband, Dave, are really big and the trappers association, just great people, strong advocates for trapping and hunting rights.

And my wife talked to her for half an hour about trapping. And actually my wife is I want to go to the women's traffic thing because they're having like a women's only trapping event. So her and two of her friends have signed up to go to this trapping event because she wants to learn how to trap.

Like we get home that night and I get, I get out of the restroom and she's on her phone like, what are you reading about? She's like trapping. And I about passed out. I'm like, are you serious right now? So yeah it's, it is, I think it's going to, it's going to gain more popularity. I think at this point, just because of the conservation mindset.

So real quick, Paul. Yes. Couple notes from around the state. So obviously we've got the archery season beginning on September 30th. Boring next, but it has all the numbers from last year. So we had 210,000, almost 211,000 deer check [00:08:00] last year. Dears. We've got a reminder to take caution during Ohio's wildfire season.


It's been dry for one, but so just make sure you're taking care of caution with that. And then the last thing they sent out was 2, 000 muskies have been stocked in Piedmont Lake. If you want more information on any of that, check out what is it? OhioDNR. gov. And they've got all the different articles there to keep you up to date on what's going on around the state.

We didn't do talk about our sponsors. Let's hit them, baby. I'm looking at you. I'm looking at your meat. It's meat like that sucker. You haven't watched that. What are those called reels on Instagram? It's on go wild too. Yep. It's on go wild. Paul's top 10 list of the things that you can put in the meat log.

Hilarious. Hilarious. I had a lot of fun doing that. My favorite one. What was your favorite top 10 that do you remember any of the nine house cats, the nine house [00:09:00] cats? That was my favorite. I love how I'm pretty sure you'd put a lot of research and development into that just so you can make sure that list was accurate, but God.

So yeah, check that thing out. Meatlog half dash rack. com. Use the code Ohio outdoors 15, save yourself 15%. That thing is legit. It is built like a freaking tank and you can fit an entire D bone deer inside of that thing. I've used it a couple of times I've had. Beer, we've got a brisket steaming in there, all sorts of uses for that thing.

That's cool, man. The meat lug is a, it's legit soft sided cooler. And it doesn't look, it's not, it doesn't look like you could fit that much stuff in there, but it's deceiving. Yeah. So check them out. Half rack half dash rec. com. You can find them on go wild time to go wild.

com. They're also available there along with a just tremendous amount of products for the deer hunter. Angler, outdoorsman, camper, hiker, they got it all, man. Go wild [00:10:00] as your social media platform too. So lots of good pictures popping up there. That's what places happening, man. Those guys got it going on.

Yeah, and that's a good place. If you've got, I've asked a couple of questions there. If you get hung up on something like access or trying to understand thermals or deer movement, early season strategies, asking a question in the community, you will get an answer. And we'll get a couple and you need some really good folks that, that, that chime in.

And if Mike Larson comments on it, take that as gospel because that dude is stone cold killer and he's super gracious with all of his expertise and he's he's just one of those killers too. So yeah, check them out. Also available on go wild, Andrew Timber Ninja. Outdoors or saddle timber, ninja outdoors.

com. You just go to Ohio free shipping on any of your orders. Man, I finally got up in that saddle, that ultimate. When we went out to, when we went out that one, the DSA thing was, and I'm going to be honest [00:11:00] with you. Like when I first put it on, I'm like, man, I don't know, man. I'm not sure I'm going to like this five minutes into like actually being in the tree in a hunting scenario.

I was like, Holy cow. I texted you a mic. This thing's crazy, right? Yeah. This thing is freaking wild. It's a two panel saddle. That was what it was just throwing me off because it's just different than what I had before, but super comfortable, man. And I got the nano and that thing is stupid light. It's, I gave a review or whatever the other day, but it's it is like wearing a cloud like air.

There's nothing there like a loincloth, maybe. Yeah, man. Maybe. And it's the only thing you wear it's even better. It just holds your Lawrence,

but yes, timber ninja. And you said code is Ohio for free shipping. Check them out. And their sticks are really great too, which I love. They're really good. They're freaking bad. It's all this stuff made in Ohio air made in America. Yep. Perfect. Black gate hunting, black gate, hunting gear. com products, black gate hunting products.

[00:12:00] I've been getting. a ton of trail cameras, pictures from those black gates on the two that I got out. Every time they come through, I'm impressed. I actually, I'm going to send it to you. Maybe we'll post it. I've got the biggest groundhog I've ever seen standing up. Like a freaking bear. It looks like a little tiny grizzly man, just standing up right in front of that black eight camera.

I actually hit the request HD. So the first and only person to ever request a groundhog picture. This thing is huge, man. And the picture, I got a couple of gobblers on there. I got some good buck pictures. They keep adding new features to the app. Have you seen that? How it functions, they've got the kind of like the analytic side.

So you can see, the time that your cameras are firing the most, the way that it's listed, dude, the data that you can get. Average variables. How wild does that do? Cloud cover, pressure, wind direction, wind speed, humidity, temperature. If you've got a property that you're highly monitoring, this is that right here.

The only [00:13:00] thing I'm guys are no joke. The only thing I'm mad about those cameras is I don't have all of them. All my cameras are not working because I've got a couple other ones out and I wish I had black gates and that's the thing, man. And I know Seth, one of our real good listeners, a guy that I've come to know, he just bought one.

I'm telling you, man, like when you get these cameras here, I'm like, this is amazing. They're legit. They're a freaking game changer. And that is industry. So absolutely. Find them online. Blackgate hunting products. com. Find them on the socials. Just type in black gate hunting. You you will find them.

Code Ohio outdoors five. Correct. Oh, two podcasts. Oh, two podcasts. There you go. Oh, two podcasts. Check that the discount out there. So w we got Midwest gun works, but it was work and I got that six, five, whether it be Creedmoor six, five Creedmoor ready to kill something with that muds, that damn squirrel still munching up on my gutter pens.


works. com. Get your [00:14:00] firearms ready for the deer gun season, get you your duck shotgun. They've got the custom shop. They've.

15 optics. They got it all. So check them out. And that's a Ohio outdoors, five on that one.

Finally, exhibition. So thanks to those guys, but the that's your thermal needs and night vision, binoculars, range finders, thermal scopes, monoculars, all that kind of stuff. Love it. That range finder that they gave they gave us nothing. Yeah, that thing's really neat. So thanks to them for the support of the show.

We had a funny little interaction with Glen Ryker, our buddy, and exhibition, they were at a big like a sales presentation, a really large retailer. And they used our podcast is the, cause you guys have been so strong, right? Supporting their products. They used our podcast, like episode list is talking about like their partners in the [00:15:00] episode that you did with Sawyer.

And on the bottom of it, like on the list, it was, there was another one of our episodes listed reporting for duty private Tech deck, Glenrike. And apparently it came up. During the meeting is that Glenn? That we know Glenn wasn't there to defend himself, but apparently it all worked out.

They were none the wiser and everyone had a good time. Glenn is still employed as far as I know. So still employed way to go, Glennie. So good stuff. Yeah. Check them out. X vision optics. com. You got some really cool stuff available for. the predator hunter, the deer hunter. They got it.

They got it all. They got some sweet stuff. So exhibitionoptics. com. Thanks for the support of our show, man. Besides that, Paul that's all I know, man. It's it's almost like a kid getting ready for Christmas, but I can't get ready yet because I can't go out on the first day. I wish I could go out there first morning, but we got soccer and different things.

Yeah. You did the same thing. You couldn't go out last year on the first day. I don't know, man. I'm going to try. I'm going to try. There's an old hot property around that But I like to try, I'm going to try to keep it close. I can't drive three [00:16:00] hours to my hunting spot that first weekend.

And that's, I'm not, I don't think I'm gonna have time. So I'm going to save those trips, but yeah. So tag us in your pictures, tag us on go wild, tag us in the Instagram. Yeah. And if, last year we did a lot of what we call the. Oh, two. Oh, two hunt camp. We'll start doing some of those.

You guys start tagging us and stuff and we'll get you on the show. And I want to hear the stories, man. It doesn't matter if it's big or small or dough or buck, let's hear it, man. And it doesn't, it could be a sweet ass. com. We got a. com. Oh, two hot camp. com and the wings of Turkey hunt ball.

It doesn't matter. Derek talking to you. Good luck this weekend. Yeah. Yeah, we need to get Mike Larson on so he can tell his story about the mule deer hunt out there. That was freaking wild. That would be a good one. We're gonna have to text him, get him on just for a little, talk about a bundle of energy.

Oh my gosh. I love him, dude. I love that guy. He's great. Yeah, good stuff. Guys, thanks for listening to this show. We had some cool content. We just did a we did a really neat interview tonight that episode will probably go live next week, I'd imagine, but talking all things, deer hunt, man, [00:17:00] that early season.

So good stuff. Good stuff. Appreciate you guys. Have a great week. Get out there. Do your thing. Good luck, everybody.

We've got Eric Freeland here from the Ohio state trappers association. I think this is a first for us, Paul. We've never actually discussed trapping in the state of Ohio. And it's something that has been in the back of my mind that I wanted to get into. And I thought I find it very interesting, unique beneficial as an outdoors person or, for the ecosystem all everything that goes with culture.

We joked about this at our last episode, we've done this a hundred, this'll be like 102 times or something, and we still end up with issues, but it's because neither of us is actually good at this and it's okay. [00:18:00] But anyways, back to the trapping idea. It's been on the backburner. We went up to the BHA event, Mustard in the Marsh, met you, Eric.

You gave an outstanding presentation on general trapping, kind of 101. I was like, that's it's go time. In the meantime, I was having raccoons trying to raid my chicken coop. Literally tore the wing off of one of my birds. The wing, completely gone. That bird died, but it was there's one of those things like, all right now we got to talk about this and we've gone back and forth a couple of times on text messages.

We've tried to line this up, I don't know, half dozen times it feels like in person because to me, trapping is this hands on, you got to be able to see the traps and stuff, but we're going to go ahead and do this virtually today. And then talk about some other opportunities that you guys have through the trappers association for people to do hands on learning.

But I guess first, Eric, do you want to give us a quick. rundown introduction of what you what position you have within the trappers association and all that. [00:19:00] Absolutely. So my name's Eric Freeland. My position, the Ohio state trapper association is I'm the education coordinator. So one of the big things that I do is I put together some fall.

trapping workshops and we're working on getting the spring workshops back and running. But for now, we're focusing on the fall workshops. And they're scattered across Ohio. So it's not just in one place. We try to reach as many people as possible. So in these workshops, it's a two day event. And the first day there, there may be some form of trappers education offered, but the big thing with these events are is that there are hands on learning experience for trapping.

So you'll be setting traps all day long or until you're done at the first day of the workshops. The second day will be scheduled. Going through the sets, you'll harvest anything that you caught and we'll go over skinning for market. So that's the big thing with these workshops is that [00:20:00] you'll actually be doing stuff while you're there.

Not just watching. That's awesome. It's pretty, yeah, that's great. Now, Eric, let me ask you this. Are you seeing I know it's very prevalent in the minds of most turkey hunters because of the impacts that raccoons and coyotes have had. Are you seeing more participation? We are so trapping as a whole across the U S has been on a kind of a downward trajectory.

But whenever we see a spike in for value. You see an influx of people. But I think that we need to be focusing on something a little more different when it comes to, trapping is it's so it's a recreational opportunity. And like what you're talking about here is trying to better manage our predator populations.

Because of Fewer people taking raccoons. We have this big influx, right? So we've got a whole lot more coyotes and the coyotes are a whole nother thing because, if you've [00:21:00] talked with anybody else about it there haven't been coyotes in Ohio for a really long time, if you look at the big picture.

So coyotes are a newer thing here. And yeah, we've got a whole lot of them around and, trapping is a great tool to help manage these. Predator population so we can increase our prey species. Absolutely. I want to get into that a little bit more here in a bit, but I think that trapping in Ohio, I, if you've never done it, if you've never done it, you don't understand anything about it.

Like I didn't. The first thing you have to realize is that you need to have your own. The first place to start is it's its own license, right? And you have to have your own trappers education certification, correct? Correct. So for trapping in Ohio is under a fur taker permit. Anybody can buy a fur taker permit, but if you want to trap under that fur taker permit, trappers ed course.[00:22:00]

So that's why a trapper's ed course is so important. I just really think that trapper's edge should end up being a part of hunters ed. That way, whenever somebody goes through it, they just get it knocked out in one go. Because even if you know you're out in the field Just to be aware of traps because there's a whole lot of misconceptions with them, people think that you know If they step on a trap, it's gonna break their foot their toe, kill their dog and that stuff's just not true Yes and I will say That after I learned that I was like, I got to do this trappers education course and most of the time I have no problem with that.

Like I like to learn Especially when it's pretty basic. I don't know what the age demographic that this is targeted for but Anybody probably, I would say 16 or older could take this course and do it pretty easily. And now they offer a in home version or, and I'm assuming they do some in person as well.

Yeah. So the in person course they can be harder to set up. [00:23:00] just because sometimes there's just a lack of people wanting to show up for these things. So typically what I offer people that are in my area is the home study test out option. So on the home study option you would do your packet.

It's a, it's essentially when you did hunter's head, it's a booklet and there's, you're filling the blanks and you answer your questions and that kind of a thing. And then you would take your test and then you need somebody like myself, that's That's a Trapper's Ed certified instructor to grade your tests.

So they'd grade it and then we'd file. that certification with the division and then in your portal online it'll reflect that you've passed trappers ed certified so then you could even go and trap another state so you know the benefit of that is you could go and trap things that we don't have in ohio say, say you go to Alaska and you wanted to catch, Pine Martin or, Wolverine or something like that, something that's exciting you could go and do that because your trapper's had certified.

And so [00:24:00] our course here, I'm holding the manual right now. 80, 81 pages. Okay. And then you've got your quiz afterwards, but if you're new to this it's really good manual, 80 pages in that bad. And it's goes from the history talks about the, the conservation wildlife management aspect, ethics, responsibility, the traps, general equipment how to do sets, water trapping, land trapping, using snares.

Marketing your fur, the skinning, flushing, drying, all that kind of stuff. It's really, if for nothing else, it's a good educational piece that to get you, like you were talking about safe, when you're in the woods, it's not going to break your leg and all that kind of stuff. And how to, just be safe around that kind of stuff.

And then you take the test at home. It's not hard and you send it in the mail and a few weeks later you get back your card, assuming you pass the test and while a lot, you're good to go. right on. That's it's pretty. It is that simple. And I think that there's people that don't even know that it exists.

And I'm The Trapper's Ed Manual myself and a couple [00:25:00] other people in the OSTA have been working with the Division of Wildlife to we're updating we updated the Trapper's Ed Manual, so what you have now is, I don't know when it's going to come into effect, but you will end up seeing something, the home study course is going to be a lot like the Excuse me.

The like online version of the Hunter's Ed. So the Trapper's Ed and the Hunter's Ed will be available to do online if somebody wishes to do it that way to make it a lot more accessible. Awesome. Okay. So talking, we'll just go down, I'm going to use this table of contents as our guide here on our Trapping 101.

Yeah. Can you give us a quick. Brief history of trapping and, the conservation wildlife management, like Paul was talking about with some of the different reasons why we trap and why it may become more popular. So my, the trapping has been around, since before the invention of the coil spring trap [00:26:00] trapping has been done with different methods with deadfalls which are illegal in Ohio.

You can't use a deadfall trap. Which are typically constructed of a heavy rock and some sticks, right? I can say when the OSTA was, I believe it was in the 1940s is when we were founded, but since, before settlers, there'd been trapping taking place in, the United States specifically.

But, as far as its history goes, it has a very deep history with humans, not just American history, but one of the big reasons why. America got pushed, forward and we stayed was trapping. That was the big desire to explore more areas in the U. S. was searching for those beaver pelts.

That was like the big desirable hide at the time. And Coincidentally it's actually really valuable over the past couple of years for some reason. I think it has to do more so with Stetson hats and they're using those hides to make those Stetson hats for whatever reason.

They may have had a tougher time sourcing those hides. But, [00:27:00] trapping has a very rich history in the United States. A lot of people are surprised to find out that trapping is still alive. And that even when, what do you do with the catch? These are sold at international markets and then people make stuff with them.

So like it is a commodity and they are bought and sold at large auctions. And there's, there can be a lot of money involved in it. And just this day and age it travel, it fluctuates a lot as far as what the valuable pelt is that year. Yeah. And I think when you think about North America and the settlement in general, there's so much there from the Hudson Bay company, the mountain men of the past, Lewis and Clark being on their expedition and all the part of the, the natural resources that we have here.

And over time, things come and go and trends and close and that kind of stuff. But in today's market, as far as the fur trade goes, where does that stand from your point of view? Yeah, so a lot of [00:28:00] the fur there, a lot of it is in the trim trade. So if you look at in wintertime, you're, you guys are around Columbus, right?

So you drive around your city area and you look at, we'll look at bubblecoats specifically. Okay. People in bubblecoats and you look around what's on their collar and that's fur. And a lot of people don't even realize that a lot of these bubble coats are actually using real fur.

And I do believe that most, in most cases, it's possum fur. So the possum, which is a funny animal because for the last, oh shoot, I'd say 10, 15 years or so, they, they bring about a dollar on the average. That's probably been the fur trade's like biggest bargain because they use it so heavily, and they have a really soft fur, it can die real easily and you'll see that on bubblecoats.

Now when you're talking a little bit more valuable fur like muskrat or beaver, you'll see high end coats made with it.[00:29:00] And specifically with muskrats they use the bellies and you'll see those on like winter hats. And I believe it's the Canadian Mounties. They supply all their officers with somebody can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe it's the Canadian Mounties have muskrat hats for their winter wear.

So Eric, have you ever been on a podcast? No. Okay. They will correct you. I promise. And I will let you know if you're wrong. They will correct you. No. Good. Good. Show me that I'm wrong, please.

But yeah, it's. I can get a little long winded too. Feel free to jump in when you need to the other hides that are in big demand are the like bobcat and stuff like that. The ones with really nice dark spots on the bellies, those get used and the higher end trim trade and luxury coats.

But. As far as like daily wear, there's not a whole lot of that, but there was a company, I think it was Greenwald fur. [00:30:00] That's a big fur buyer. They had manufactured a bunch of raccoon lined coats for just like everyday wear and they sold out of them. And I'd really like to see those brought back in.

We, it's, We've got these resources. Let's use it. We could bring, we can bring fur back into style. It's just up to us. So I don't know if I dreamt this up or I don't know if you said it at the BHA event, but did is a lot of the fur trade through Ukraine and Eastern Europe and that market, and with some of the uneasiness over there, is that part of the reason I've seen some, so it can.

That can be part of it. So Russia, right? They get Russia and China, they have traditionally been one of the bigger buyers and manufacturers of fur because they have a lot of manufacturing there, right? We all know China makes all sorts of stuff, right? China and Europe are the big buyers. Sorry, Eastern Europe, Russia big buyers of fur, and it doesn't help the fur trade.[00:31:00]

When there's war going on over there. And that stuff is well beyond anybody's control that's in the fur market. You can't ship large quantities of stuff if you're worried about it getting, seized or blown up or whatever. Yeah, that makes sense. All right, Paul, get ready to jump in the when we're talking about trapping as a conservation, as a wildlife management tool, I think any well spoken outdoorsman or woman that understands what's going on.

We have an ecosystem, there's a carrying capacity, some, when things get out of whack, things like disease will come in, famine, whatever, and balance that out. It happens time and time again. We always see it. So when we're looking and specifically, turkey population is a major one, nest predators are, is a major topic of discussion and trying to get the turkey population back up to where we would like to see it.

Can you go [00:32:00] through some of that? And I guess when I'm talking about, we can talk about fur trade and making money off of this, but from helping the ecosystem and the other game animals that we're looking at, there's parts of this where, yes, you can trap coyote. You can trap the raccoons that are just out of control in their population.

But then we got things like Bobcats that can also cause issues that we can't trap. So yeah, it's a funny line there. I'll type in, I'll I'll say yet on the Bobcats. I was trying to, I was going to save this for a little bit later, but we do have updates on the bobcat unless you want to just talk about that as a nice little caveat.

Now that's up to you. Okay, so the ODNR within the last couple of weeks just released their bobcat management plan. So I spent A good bit of time going through it. I'm not in a, I would not count myself an expert on it by any means, but I read it all once. So in this management plan, the division of [00:33:00] wildlife has determined their the range of bobcats.

If I don't have it in front of me, right? So it fell between, I believe it was. We'll say 1200 bobcats in the state and like 4000 is what they think the general range of bobcats is in Ohio. They have determined though that with that range of bobcats that we have enough to allow for a season on them.

But that's just. One part of this whole equation on getting to a season is they now have a management plan. The next step is, we have a meeting with the division of wildlife. I don't know exactly when that is yet, but we're gonna be talking with them and discussing some of this stuff as what are the next steps.

But we are going to be seeing a season hopefully soon. And I'm not going to speculate on when that is, if it would be, this, the 20 24 season, or if it would be a year after that or however long. But they also already have five zones made [00:34:00] up. With that information it's public info.

You can look up Bobcat Management Plan on Ohio Division of Wildlife's page, and you can find, you could read it yourself. But it's, it was an interesting read and it is, it's nice to see that we've got some science, backing up a, an ethical harvest of these animals. Yeah, it is.

It is nice to see that. I, have the same conversations with the Department of Natural Resources and Department of Wildlife, and I would expect to see a limited bobcat season in the next. Oh, yeah. One to three years, if I had to guess it's interesting when we talk about bring that season back.

I'm sure you've been to some of the Wildlife Council meetings. Have you been to any of those? You know what? I have not been able to make it to a Wildlife Council meeting, but it's it's high on my priority list to try to make it to some of those because that's where stuff gets done. Like it's one thing.

Yeah, it's one thing for, a lot of us [00:35:00] outdoorsman to, sit with our buddies and talk about stuff. But if you want change to happen, you got to go to these meetings and you got to participate and let your voice be heard because wildlife council has a good bit of, they're the people that.

That get to put the rubber stamp of approval or not on a lot of stuff as far as Regulation changes in ohio. Sure. Sure. It's it's so I went to one I go to Yeah, maybe three or four a year. Yeah, and I went to one last week. So I did a google search I wanted to see what time it was.

I couldn't remember it So so I googled it and the very first thing that came up. This is the very first thing on google Was the Ohio animal advocates website that has the information to this council meetings are generally held. It's 630 p. m. on the second Wednesday of each month and gives the address.

And so When I've been to those and every every single one there is a representative for those that are listening these are anti hunting and anti trafficking organizations and [00:36:00] attendees. And so if you click on the OAA and I've met the people that are there they are very nice they're very respectful but their agenda is to not see a by the stated on their website.

Is to, to not have a bobcat trapping season in the state of Ohio. And so as conservationists and as hunters and trappers and wildlife managers That those are meetings that when this comes up like we're gonna have to be there in force Oh, yeah, absolutely because our opponents are there every week and i've been to those meetings Eric and andrew that other than like the state Employees and myself and the other conservation groups are the only people that are there that don't are the non-hunters.

The anti hunters. That's baffling when you think about it. So be ready for a fight. That's the moral. This long-winded dad trend. It's not going to be an easy thing. So if anybody remembers Shoot, I think maybe it was [00:37:00] 2014 or so we had a proposed selective harvest on Bobcats that was proposed to wildlife council.

Do you guys remember that? 20, 2018. 2018. I was off by a couple of years. Thank you for correcting me. 2018. You're welcome. So 2018, we had that selective harvest. And wildlife, it was for I believe 75 cats or so. And it was from those two areas. Those two areas, those were two genetically different populations of bobcats.

And the goal was to collect carcasses. From this harvest, it was not going to be done. No, no hunting was going to be allowed. It was all going to be traffic. So that was because they wanted to check uterine scarring. On these animals, and it doesn't do them any good if that's, if that's harmed in any way, they can't check the scars to see how many kittens these things had.

That was shot down by Wildlife Council. They didn't say no, they said not now. Since then, there have been a [00:38:00] Ohio University study. It was done as well as some other studies. And that's where we are now is that they've got those studies down. We now have some science and we can move forward on this.

But like you said, there, there hasn't, it's not going to be easy. As far as just making sure that this happens, but we need support from all hunters, trappers, and fishermen, outdoors people, to, to support this limited harvest of the bobcats. Yeah. And even if you're not a big trapper, part of that is, and I think Paul, correct me if I'm wrong, the bobcat.

Effect on the turkey population might be starting to be rethought and that it's actually, they're doing more damage than was initially thought. So if you like to hunt turkeys, get behind your guy who likes to trap bobcats so that you guys can all win. Yeah. Yeah. The ongoing research not just in Ohio, but across the country is showing that the bobcats are having more of an impact than what was generally thought.

[00:39:00] Before when we were doing research on wild turkey populations and with the impacts of bobcats, it was, stomach contents of dead bobcats. And so if it, like roadkill bobcats in the state. So if they're, and we're talking 2005, I think the last time this happened in the state like the big research and then they, throughout the years, I know that the team has done that.

But, if a bobcat didn't eat a turkey. For the last two weeks, that's not going to be in there. Since you talk about like limited information, that's pretty limited, but I know that they have seen negative impacts from the Bobcat population on the Wadsworthy research project in the state right now.

So yeah, very interesting stuff. So yeah, Ohio state university is doing a research project right now. And they are, it's. It's the coyote project, but they want whiskers from all predators. Unfortunately the Bobcat would be tricky, right? Unless it was, the data was provided by the division of wildlife under, road, kill [00:40:00] circumstances or incidental catches or under a a depredation permit for somebody that has a Bobcat that's killing chickens, something like that.

So what they're doing with this study, and I don't understand the science completely, is they take a whisker. And they analyze the DNA in it, and they can tell what that animal has eaten over a certain period of time. So it's way beyond what my understanding of sciences are. I think it's wild that they can do that.

But that is what they're doing as far as seeing what certain animals eat. Very interesting. As we move along here through... The book, I think we, we can use utilize trapping as a another tool in our conservation methods and it has to be, everybody has to understand that.

But as we move through this the manual and the topics ethics and responsibility is the next. Eric, do you want to touch a little bit on that? That's some of this it's common sense. It's whoever wrote this man, as far as ethics go. So I know when we were [00:41:00] at that that event I hit it and I hit it pretty hard and I was pretty blunt about it.

One of the things that we want to prevent, especially as an ethics standpoint, are people that are going about trapping in a wrong way. And typically it's somebody who is just uneducated. They don't know the right way to do it. So they just wing it and they get lumped in as a trapper and it just reflects trappers in general.

And that's just, it just doesn't look good for us. And it's just, it's not good for the wildlife. It's not good for, the person that's doing it. It's not good for anybody that's involved in the outdoors. Like what will happen? Let's take it. A coyote trapper, for example, right?

Somebody, they've got, they're running trail cams, they're a deer hunter, and they see a coyote on camera for the first time they start seeing this coyote fairly regularly, they feel like they're overrun with coyotes, so they decide to they're gonna start trapping them, right? They don't have success.[00:42:00]

So they start doing things a little more desperately. And they may go outside of the regulations. And that's just some stuff that we don't want to see. And there's people that will cover You know, this is things that I've heard people doing, right? And this is the unsavory stuff that not a lot of people want to talk about, but I feel like it should be discussed because this isn't what, what educated trappers do or should be doing.

There's people that'll cover a burlap in fat and leave like strips of burlap and leave it out. with the idea that the coyotes are going to eat it and it's going to get bound up in their stomach and then they it fills up their stomach it can't pass and and they die that way. There's people that have hung fish hooks with meat on them and oh that's how I catch coyotes.

There's people that Ohio, we have it all flesh baits must be completely covered. And they'll have a gut pile or some deer scraps and they'll set their foothold traps [00:43:00] right next to it with exposed bait. And what ends up happening there is you end up catching. vultures, you'll catch birds of prey, hawks, eagles, owls, and that, that stuff's bad, we don't want that and it just makes for some messy situations as far as non target catches, And, wildlife violations and the end of it, if they get caught.

And so if we can do one thing, it's, we can prevent people from doing that kind of stuff by teaching them how to do it right and do it successfully. If people are successful, they don't feel they need to resort to those ways, those means to, to try and trap. So as far as the ethics go, I think that, learning.

To trap properly and how to be successful is a big thing. No, I think that's a great point. And yeah, it's, you gotta play by the rules of the game, right? So that's some of those methods are, I don't know, it sounds terrible. I'll [00:44:00] put it this way too. There's, yeah, this is the unsavory stuff, but like I said, it should be discussed is, yeah, there's states where Body grip traps.

You really, so canna bear and body grip traps they get lumped in the same thing. But a Canna bear trap is a specifically licensed name. So if you're gonna talk about 'em the proper way is to, just call it a body gripping trap. But there are size limits on what you can set on dry land in Ohio and in most states.

But, the big thing with canna bears, And body gripping traps that if you're going to be setting them, you want to be mindful of what can get into them, right? And it, there's been circumstances in other states where a bird dog or something like that gets caught or a somebody that's out hiking and their dog gets caught in it and and then boom, people want to ban trapping.

So that's the kind of stuff that we want to teach people how to do it properly and do it right. That way we can avoid these situations.[00:45:00]

Yeah, go ahead, Paul. No, I was just saying that's definitely that's a valid point. If you do something wrong, it, it changes the perception of one person because of just a mistake or negligence. Oh, yeah. It's a big deal. And it stinks that, you have people that have been trapping for 40, 50 years or more, and then you could have somebody that...

It's their first time trying to trap and they're not trapper certified. They haven't taken any course, haven't sought any education or didn't know about it. And they went out and, they end up catching somebody's dog and killing it. And it could have been totally avoidable if they would have, gone to an education course and put in a little bit of effort.

So what we don't want to see is any sort of ban on traffic because it is a valuable research tool, not just research tool, but, it's a valuable tool to, help keep these predator populations in check, but it's also a research tool, we got [00:46:00] river otter back in Ohio from caught river otter down South.

They were caught with footholds and they brought them up here. And then they were released after some time at certain locations. And now we have river otter across the state, like there, there's been all sorts of projects that have been done, not just in Ohio, but across the nation where trapping was involved.

So I think one of the cool things about trapping we talk about, we're talking about hunting, whether it's bow hunting. Gun hunting, turkey hunting, whatever even some fishing stuff. It gets really costly. I feel like trapping, and I'm not saying trapping couldn't get caught costly, right?

But it can, it can, I'm sure, like everything, right? It doesn't have to. I went one day and I picked up a few things and it was like a hundred bucks and I basically had everything I needed. And it's reusable the traps are and all that kind of stuff. You want to touch on that? I guess my question is if somebody is getting started in this, [00:47:00] what are our, what are we looking at cost wise?

What should it be considering to get into basic tools and stuff? We'll touch on different types of traps and stuff here in a second, but so so as far as yes, so that there's some things that you definitely need. As far as you need a way, first of all, you need traps, right? Depending on what you are trying to catch kind of changes what kind of traps you want because, different traps cover different situations.

But generally speaking, if you wanted to catch, most types of fur bearers in Ohio from, from muskrats to coyote, you could get a, a one and three quarter size trap. Now there's definitely some caveat to that with coyote. Try if you're going to be specifically targeting coyote or you might catch coyote, you definitely may need some modifications to those traps to keep the jaws from popping out, depending on how they're made.

So not all traps are built equally, [00:48:00] but you don't need to go out and buy. 10 dozen brand new traps. There is a lot of secondary market stuff out there And there's people that get in and out of trapping you can find stuff at garage sales yard sales but one of the easiest resources is online just beware of scammers, you know So if somebody's not really willing to meet up in person be hesitant of sending them some cash but at our region meets at the ohio, trappers association convention.

We had, there was tailgaters there. We have tailgaters at all our region meets. And you can, you could join the Ohio state trapper association, Facebook page. If you want to do that, there's authorization required before you join, say you heard about it on our podcast here, and that might speed, if you can't answer the questions to get in.

It is not. It doesn't have to be thousands of dollars investment for like you said, 100 bucks Maybe even 75 bucks you can get enough stuff to get set up And but you need I you know, [00:49:00] you can start with one trap and you need a way to anchor that trap That's the other important thing.

So if you Don't anchor that trap properly. That catch isn't going to be there when you go and check it every day. If you do connect with it, that trap and that catch is long gone. So you either need to have it on a an anchor of some sort, either an earth anchor or a chain drag is okay. And you, and especially in Creek beds and stuff, you can pre tangle those and that animal is going to be right there when you go and check your traps. I think that, yeah, the easiest one is Oh, you got dog proof trap, right? If you've got raccoons, it's super easy to catch. That's a good, that's a good animal for people to start on, not just because it's beneficial to our environment to take out a bunch of these raccoons.

But they are, they're like little bears. They're not very picky as far as bait and lure go, [00:50:00] raccoons will eat just about anything with dog proof specifically, there's two main styles. There's a push pull style or there's a pull style. Most of them are pull style. So I guess it's hard to describe here, but, ideally the animal you want to set these dog proof traps in the trail of a raccoon.

Or you can set them like blind along a Creek edge or along a bank somewhere that you think a raccoon may travel, but ultimately if you set your traps on sign and bed solidly, you're going to have success. That was one thing that I remember talking about big time at the, at that event was, if there's two things you do that'll make you a better trapper, set on sign, bed solid. You do those two things and you're going to have a whole lot of success. But those dog proof traps are easy. You can bait them with just about anything, but a lot of people want to over bait them.

So you only need enough bait in there. So to just get at [00:51:00] the trigger. So if you go over that trigger You can either have full animals where they've already eaten enough and they don't want to eat anymore and you won't know about it till, you go and check it and most of the food's eaten out of it.

Yeah, the over baiting on the dog proofs are an a an area where people slip up a little bit just to give people a visual visualization. It basically looks like an ice cream cone, or, that kind of a cylinder shape tube, they reach down in, they have their little, I think they got opposable thumbs right and then they grab onto this thing releases the latch catches their arm, and then they're stuck there.

Spring, you have to anchor. Yep. You anchor it to the ground. So you just take a piece of rebar that's set, got a pin at the top or whatever, and then they can't go anywhere. They're putting their little death circle when they're scurrying around, but checking it, the next morning or whatever very easy to use.

And I, from my novice side of things, I would definitely say that's a good place to start. Yeah, and God knows we have enough raccoons. [00:52:00] Yep, there's plenty of them around. That was a very good description of the there's a bunch of manufacturer on, but yeah, like you said it's essentially the proper term for a dog proof is a foot encapsulating trap.

It's a tube, they stick their hand in it and the spring holds them there when they set it off. They are easy to use. It's a good place for people to start with some traps. I can't, I'm not gonna plug any specific brand of traps, but there are plenty of them out there.

And whatever style, you end up liking is one to go with. But, the dog proofs are fast and easy. You could punch in a dozen of them really quick if you wanted to. And if you've got, cameras that have cell phone signal even better, you can watch it happen.

I was going to ask you that. So one of the regulations within Ohio is at 24 hour, every 24 hours, you have to go out and check your trap, right? Is that right? Okay. If you have a cell camera set up on the trap, does that count? So here's the thing with that [00:53:00] is it says traps must be checked every calendar day, right?

The Division of Wildlife, they don't necessarily like that you could use a game camera to check a trap. But you can so the and I can assure you this and there are probably somebody that will disagree with me, but there are nuisance control operators that do this stuff every day and they use cameras to check their traps every day.

So while it's not the best method you can do it, but you got to keep in mind that. If you're not getting pictures from that camera, you're not checking your traps every day. So if there's any sort of malfunction, you need to make sure that you can get out there and visually check that trap.

That's the best way to check your traps is to be out there and check because, some stuff can happen. That you just don't see, you may see that, Oh, you had some tracks there. If you had your camera didn't fire for some reason, and that happens with some of these cameras there, they just don't go off.

And you can [00:54:00] see why you may have missed if you're up there at the set. Yeah, makes sense. All right, real quick, we'll go through a couple of these other ones. So you got foothold traps. That's that in my mind. I don't know, Disney movie type of, they make the hunter, the trapper, right there, you step on the pin in the middle and it's clamps the foot and it'll hold the animal in place.

And that's something we're looking to use more for. Stuff like coyote. What else can we use foothold traps for? There's there's two main styles that we'll talk about. There's the long springs and then there's coil springs. Long springs have those big, long springs sticking out the sides of them.

And those are the ones that you think of when you see bear traps. And the smaller versions of those are used on everything from muskrats to coyotes. And all that scales with size. So the benefit of the long spring traps are they're very stable. They're easy to bed. But the downside to them is that if you're burying [00:55:00] them, it takes a lot of dirt to cover them up.

So the coil spring trap is it can be a little bit trickier to bed for some folks. But it has a smaller footprint. Most of the traps you're going to see that are made new manufacturer are the coil spring. So I, I don't know if it's just because they use less material or what, or if it's just a popularity thing, you'll see both of them new manufacturer, but the ones that are more popular are variations of a coil spring.

Perfect. Body grip trap. This is going to be a little bit more gruesome is the right term, but it's a kill trap, it's a kill trap, right? So the foothold trap was legal set. That's true. It's a good point to come to. The foothold trap is really just holding the animal in place and then you have to go in and dispatch it, correct?

Correct. It's a live, it's a live trap. But so when a lot of people think of a live trap, they think cage and [00:56:00] that's just, that's not correct. A live trap. Is anything that holds that animal there and it's not dead, right? Coil spring traps, long springs and cable restraints are a live trap.

Now, if we're going to go and we'll get to the snare thing here in a minute, but a snare that is set to, to kill is not a live trap.

A body grip trap is a kill trap and that goes off and the animals in there, that animal's done.

Yeah. So a body gripping trap. Can be used in several different circumstances. You'll see it set on dry land and cubby sets or baited buckets. And those are typically for raccoons, skunks, possums, that kind of a thing. It's a really good set for raccoons. You can make it look like it's like a trash can.

And, the, you've got bait in the back of this, of the bucket. [00:57:00] And it's in the set position and you have it anchored properly. And the the raccoon in this example will crawl through there to get at the food. It'll hit the trigger. Those springs will fire and it'll ideally we call it suitcasing is it'll catch that raccoon, on the rib cage and behind the head, and it'll kill it.

It's a fatal set. So the other set where this is used often is water trapping. So we're talking beaver, river otter, muskrats. A muskrat would use a smaller size body gripping trap. And beaver and river otter would use about like a two 20 size or a three 30 or one of the mega bear style condo bears or body grouping traps.

And man, this is so hard to explain over the, over just a recording. We'll get to this in a second where people can go and. That's why people should come to these the event. Yeah we're going to talk all about that here in a second. The so you got box traps and live traps.

Those are [00:58:00] similar. Am I wrong? So the box trap can be made of, they can be made of many materials. They can be made of a heavy duty PVC. Ultimately it is a, they can be made of wood, but ultimately it is a cage style trap that holds the animal alive. But it's a, the live trap thing gets used interchangeably with box trap or cage trap.

And they are widely popular. Mostly, it's what at rural king tractor supply. You go back into their their little trapping section and you see those cages with the. Swing up spring door and it's just a cage. It's a cage with a trigger in a door and it steps on that pan, that door drops.

And if it's a high quality trap, it'll hold it there until you get there. If not, they can blow out of those things. They can push on that door and overpower it and they'll blow out of it. And finally, the snare, [00:59:00] which the snares are they controversial? They can be very controversial. Because a body gripping trap and other types of traps, we consider them non selective.

So on where snares get controversial is where they're set in lethal conditions. So we're talking with an entanglement situation where where an animal could get wrapped up in it and it just keeps tightening and then, the animal dies from that. Power snares are illegal to use or spring assisted snares are illegal to use in recreational trapping.

A nuisance control operator can use a power snare in Ohio. On a legitimate damage complaint. So that would be an example of that would be somebody we'll just use somebody who has sheep, and they've got a problem with coyotes killing their livestock and they have a nuisance control operator come out there for [01:00:00] hire that person could use a power snare, for the recreational season it's not really necessary for one and it's not legal.

That's the more important thing. It's not legal. But essentially it is multi strand wire with a locking device that does, as the animal moves and tries to get away, that lock will tighten. Now when that animal stops moving on a non power snare, that lock does not continue to close. It stays where it is.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So on our snares too, you have to have a deer stop. or a breakaway device it's not a bad idea to have both. So a deer stop will not prevent a, if a deer gives its head in the snare, it's not going to prevent that deer from choking itself out. Okay, now, What it will do is it'll keep a deer from [01:01:00] getting totally caught in there if it's caught in its foot.

And I'm sure somebody will try to correct me if I'm wrong here that, oh, they can still get caught in their foot. Yes, they can, but it's way less likely. Okay? Those deer stops prevent deer from being in your snare when you're trapping with a snare. It doesn't stop it entirely, but it cuts down on it big time.

Eric, we're almost at an hour and we're about, 30 percent of the way through what's on the guide here. I think we'll wrap it up here because we could talk so much more about everything and we will. We'll have you back on. Part of the reason we wanted to have this on.

I know we're leading right into deer season and everybody's all good for that, but you guys have some pretty cool stuff coming up with the Ohio state trappers association and educational experiences times. We're, we are leading into trapping season, which it looks like November 10th is the official first [01:02:00] day for some of these animals.

And I, you guys have. Workshops, in person workshops where you can get your hands dirty and yep and just learn all about all this kind of stuff. Do you want to give us a quick rundown on some of the dates, times for that, where people can find more information? Absolutely. Little side note, I think at The muster in the marsh.

I was only supposed to do an hour. I went for four or so. So it can, it's, it doesn't get talked about quickly. So we'll keep talking about as many times as it takes, but these trappers workshops, so they're scattered all across Ohio. We've got one at Southwest Ohio Conservation Club 14th and 15th.

I'm the contact for that. I can send you PDFs of these or is that something we can post somewhere? Yeah. Okay, so we've got a couple things going on here. We have the OSTA workshops are completely free, no cost to anybody. Okay, so on the 14th and [01:03:00] 15th, we have the one near Cincinnati, Ohio, and that's our Southwest Ohio Conservation Club.

We have other events across the whole state on different days, too. On October 28th and 29th, we have one at Indian Creek Wildlife Area. That's in Fayetteville, Ohio. We've got one at Salt Fork Wildlife Area. That's in Laura City Powhatan Point Wildlife Management Area, Broken Timber that's in Monroe County.

We've got Deer Creek Wildlife Area in State State Park, that's in Mount Sterling, Ohio. We have Mosquito Creek Wildlife Area, North Bloomingfield, Ohio. McGee Marsh, that's in Oak Harbor. Lake LaSuanne. And that is in Montpelier, or sorry, Pioneer, Ohio Kilbuck, Wildlife Area Workshop, and Shrive, Highland Town, and Salineville, Cooper Hollow.

Oak Hill, Ohio, Berlin Lake, Deerfield, Ohio[01:04:00] and those are the OSTA workshops. There's also another workshop I'd like to give a plug, plug to. This is not a free event but it is for women only and it's put on by women. So this is going to be at Shawnee State Forest, and it's going to run October 13th through the 15th.

And the cost for that is a 90 registration fee. But that's, it's some good people that are putting on that workshop and it's women's specific. So that's a, it's a good place for somebody to go. That's female and would like to go to a women's only event. Yeah. Imagine it could be intimidating to be there with a bunch of guys.

If that's something that you or your wife or whoever that is female that would like to attend, there you go. What's the website for you guys? I believe it's Ohio state trapper. org is our general website. And we're pretty active on Facebook, and you can do in your search bar, Ohio State Trappers Association and it'll pop up, and you can select to join there and get some information.

There's all sorts of, there's [01:05:00] Ohio Trapping Group, which is not affiliated with the OSTA it's just a Facebook group that a lot of Ohio people belong to. But I'd encourage people to, if they're interested in trapping to look into the Ohio State Trappers Association, come and participate in one of our courses.

And if you can't do it right now, that's okay. You might be able to get in touch with a local trapper that can help shorten your learning curve and keep you on the right path. I think this is great. I think if anybody's interested, please check out OhioStateTrapper. org or on the Facebook page.

Check out one of these workshops. If you got a weekend, take the kids go learn something. If nothing else, you, you're educating yourself about another aspect of our our hobbies and our passion. So Eric, we will do this again. Paul, do you have anything else? No, Eric, that was great.

Thanks for your time and thanks for all your work with the OSTA. Thanks for having me. I appreciate this. We'll do it again, man. And take care. Yep.[01:06:00]