Blood Trail Roadblocks

In this conversation, Dan Johnson and Jason Thibodeau share an engaging and detailed account of Jason's hunting experience with a unique drop-tine buck. They discuss the challenges faced during the hunt, including tracking the deer after a shot, interactions with landowners, and the lessons learned throughout the process. The conversation emphasizes the importance of patience, ethical hunting practices, and the complexities of deer management. In this conversation, Jason Thibodeau shares his experience of recovering a deer he shot, navigating the complexities of landowner relationships, and reflecting on hunting ethics. The discussion highlights the challenges hunters face when dealing with property boundaries, the importance of communication, and the emotional weight of hunting decisions. Jason's story serves as a reminder of the realities of hunting, the need for persistence, and the value of respectful interactions with fellow hunters and landowners.

Takeaways:

• The importance of patience when tracking a wounded deer.
• Understanding landowner relations is crucial in hunting.
• Tracking a deer can be challenging, especially in difficult terrain.
• Communication with landowners can lead to better recovery chances.
• Blood trails can be misleading; always assess the situation carefully.
• Hunting ethics play a significant role in the hunting community.
• Every hunting experience teaches valuable lessons for future hunts.
• The significance of respecting property boundaries while hunting.
• A good shot doesn't always guarantee a quick recovery.
• Building relationships with neighbors can enhance hunting experiences. You have to respect the landowner's wishes.
• Persistence is key in deer recovery.
• Understanding the landowner's perspective is crucial.
• Hunting ethics can be subjective and complex.
• Communication with neighbors can facilitate deer recovery.
• It's important to reflect on your own hunting standards.
• Building relationships with landowners can be beneficial.
• Every hunting experience teaches valuable lessons.
• Don't let fear of judgment stop you from sharing your story.
• The reality of hunting includes both successes and failures.

Dan Johnson (00:00.93)
All right, ladies and gentlemen, today we got an epic deer story that we're gonna tell, and it doesn't turn out the way that you think it's going to because there are a lot of obstacles and hurdles in the way of today's guest, Jason Tibideau. Now, if you guys follow the How to Hunt Deer podcast, me and Jason kind of co-host that, I don't know.

that podcast and we do a really, I think anyway, we do a really good job of breaking down the basics of hunting, know, telling stories and sharing experiences to help anybody get in the woods. So if you're looking or you have a friend and I'll back up even a little bit, like at the nine finger Chronicle side of things, sometimes I have an issue.

And I forget that there are potentially new hunters out there and I take it to level 20, right? And people might be able to understand that. Some people don't. So on the how to hunt deer podcast, we kind of keep it low key. We keep it down to the basics. We share our experiences and how that how those might help others. With all that said, Jason, dude, how you doing?

Jason Thibodeau (01:15.837)
Pretty good today. We kind of got some colder weather the last few days and today it's going to warm up. Tomorrow is supposed to be mid 40s so end of our hunting season is Sunday.

Dan Johnson (01:24.449)
Yeah, crazy.

Dan Johnson (01:29.399)
Are you gonna get out at all?

Jason Thibodeau (01:31.171)
You know, I think today and tomorrow I'm gonna focus on setting a couple Bobcat traps. And then I think maybe Saturday I'm going to head out. Cause it's supposed to start cooling down, I think Friday night into Saturday, but then Sunday is supposed to just fall off again. So I think with the movement I've been seeing, I think Saturday would be okay.

Dan Johnson (01:47.617)
Yeah, yeah.

Dan Johnson (01:52.034)
Yeah. Okay. I will. I'm done unless I want to go out and shoot antlerless, which I've kind of just, I've just kind of packed up this season, dude. I'm done. had a great season shot two bucks. I'm just waiting for some, a phone call from the locker to go pick my meat up. well, we got a story to tell today, but before we get into the story, like you said before you started recording, you spent some time.

Jason Thibodeau (01:56.101)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (02:22.081)
with some kindergartners yesterday. And I was like, well, wait a second. I don't think you have a kindergartner as a kid, right? And so out of the blue, you kind of started substitute teaching again.

Jason Thibodeau (02:27.902)
No. No, no.

Jason Thibodeau (02:34.721)
Okay, I got rewind a little bit. So between my fiance and I, we have five kids and they range from first grade, third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade and sixth grade.

Dan Johnson (02:38.08)
Okay, all right.

Dan Johnson (02:43.223)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (02:50.321)
four, four girls and one boy. So it's always chaos when we're all together, you know, so it's kind of a free for all. So I'm used to it being loud and everything. Well, when, when I met her, she actually started substitute teaching and then now she's actually, she'd already had a degree in, biology and stuff. So she's going back to school and she's going to be a teacher. Well, being a landscaper, there's not a whole lot to do during the winter and you know, finding work.

or just being bored kind of pushed me in this direction of being a substitute of some sort. So there was, you know, multiple positions open to be a bus driver, a custodian, you know, all the things. So I thought, well, what's the easiest thing that I could do? And it was, you know, they have like teachers aides and stuff. Well, a lot of these schools have gone to having one teacher's aid per teacher. So I thought, well, it's pretty easy because at the end of the day, I'm not fully responsible for.

Dan Johnson (03:20.397)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (03:44.93)
making sure what's done. just do as I'm told, you know, take little Billy to the bathroom or whatever, you know. So I got this substitute teacher's aid job and I've gotten in at one of the schools locally. so yesterday, yeah, I spent the day with kindergartners for most of the morning. And then I had a see we had lunch with them. We had.

I had to go to fifth and sixth grade recess, which was inside because too cold to go outside, apparently. So that was loud and crazy. And that was probably the craziest moment of the day. Other than that, it was 12, 13 kindergartners that I got to be with. So.

Dan Johnson (04:25.129)
Okay. First off, awesome, because I don't know if I could necessarily be around kids from like that sixth grade to high school type level, because of just my patience, my inability to bend the knee to some stubborn brat, basically. But one thing that I definitely could do.

Jason Thibodeau (04:48.933)
Right.

Dan Johnson (04:52.67)
is hang out with a bunch of kindergartners because for the most part, they're pretty optimistic. All they want to do is have fun. And from a mental standpoint, we're probably on the same plane, right? Like laughing at the kind of jokes that they laugh at and putting together like five piece puzzles. Like I can do that kind of stuff.

Jason Thibodeau (05:06.277)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (05:12.803)
Yep. Yep. Yep. No, it was pretty easy. And, you know, I just sit down on a chair and, you know, read a book to him or whatever. But I think the one thing that kind of got me going back to what you said about the sixth grade to high school level. this school has.

Daycare built into it also so you have newborn kids all the way up to sixth grade in this school so when I went to Recess it was crazy. You know these fifth and sixth grade kids are just nuts and then we go to lunch and I'm standing there just kind of watching everybody and all you got to do is tell them like you know put your spoon in this basket and rinse off your tray and throw your garbage away look at this one kid you know there's always the one kid he he's like hey come here and I said what he's like

Dan Johnson (05:50.892)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (05:56.58)
Who are you? And I'm like, dude, it's just my first day. I've never done this before, you know, and I get that like this kid wants to bully me, you know, it right away. And so I just kind of chuckle it off and just turn and walk away. Well, then so they have to raise their hand in this lunchroom. So it looks like a bunch of whack-a-mole because all these hands are popping up, flying up everywhere, you know, and you got to go answer their question. Well, they got this like share cart thing.

Dan Johnson (06:05.837)
Ha

Jason Thibodeau (06:24.247)
So if, if Dan Johnson goes and gets his lunch and he doesn't eat his carrots, he can put his carrots in the share cart. Well, when all the kids are done eating, they can sit there and raise their hand and go up to the share cart one at a time and grab an extra snack or whatever you have it. So that's what all these kids are doing. And then they get to, can I have another milk? Can I have this? And I said, I, dude, I have no idea. I'm literally here just making sure you behave and throw your garbage away. But yeah, there was a couple of them that, no, you don't choke. I know I'll call somebody.

Dan Johnson (06:50.827)
and you don't choke.

Jason Thibodeau (06:54.161)
if you do, because I'm literally just getting paid to walk around and watch you. So, no, it was interesting. So yeah, I got a few more of those coming up and it's kind of just killing some time here.

Dan Johnson (07:08.353)
Yeah, well that's crazy, man. I mean, obviously you have to go through a background check in order to do this kind of thing, but I could just see you being like, all right, kids, now I'm gonna tell you a story about how to gut a deer. Like, this is the process of field dressing a deer once you shoot it through the lungs. And kids are just like, their eyes are huge, they've never heard about this kind of thing before.

Jason Thibodeau (07:13.913)
Yeah. Right.

Jason Thibodeau (07:21.675)
It... Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (07:34.373)
Yep, yep.

Dan Johnson (07:36.257)
You should start telling them, you know, teaching them big buck hunting strategies.

Jason Thibodeau (07:40.421)
Yeah, right, exactly. No, I'd say some of them you can tell like which kids like when they were coming in yesterday like, oh, this kid's got, you know, cowboy boots on. He's got a camel vest. He's got a camel jacket. You know, like you could tell like there's a couple of hunters in the group or they've been with their dad that hunts and stuff. And it was pretty cool until they started making fun of me about how old I was. And then, you know, they all got to spread their germs on you and give you a hug at the end of the day. But other than that, it was pretty easy. So.

Dan Johnson (07:54.668)
Right.

Dan Johnson (07:59.597)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (08:05.985)
That's crazy. That's crazy. Well, we got a story to get into here. Before we do, I want to send a huge shout out to all of the partners of the Nine Finger Chronicles podcast. So first off, if you're looking to get mobile in a saddle, there's only one stop and that is Tethered. So go check out Tether's website for their saddle and saddle hunting accessories. Wasp has just come out with a new broad head. It was released at the ATA show. I believe it's the Sharpshooter.

They've made some alterations to it, some additional cutting blades, and some different grains. I believe it comes in a 100 and a 125. So go check that out, wasparchery.com, discount code NFC20. Of course, the VIP warranty from Vortex Optics makes it worthwhile, but the people that work there, all of the products, the apparel line, the sunglasses, you name it,

When it comes to optics, they have it. Rifle scopes, spotting scopes, binoculars, range finders and so on, red dots and so on. Vortexoptics.com. Next on the list is Code Blue Scents. If you are looking to get into this upcoming season and start using some mock scrape kits, very heavily recommend the Rope-A-Dope mock scrape kit from Code Blue, along with any other real and synthetic deer urine scents that they offer, scent elimination products as well.

codebluesense.com, discount code NFC20. Then we got Huntworth. The biggest thing for me that gets me the most excited about Huntworth is their solids that have come out. I'm a fan of solids, I've always been a fan of solids. They have some badass camel patterns if you're a believer in camo as well. They have the heat boost technology in their cold weather gear. Just a bunch of really good

high quality, affordable products, huntworthgear.com. And then the new 3.0 versions of the reveal by Tacticam. So if you go to tacticam.com slash cameras, check out the new reveal 3.0s. I mean, put the batteries in, download the app, scan the QR code, and you are literally ready to go. Takes a couple minutes per camera. And you can start taking pictures. Last but not least,

Dan Johnson (10:33.356)
We got full sneak gear. I know Jason, you got a full sneak gear shirt that you wear every once in a while. So thanks for supporting the cause. All proceeds from full sneak gear go to supporting my hunting habits and taking my wife out for dinner and on vacation so that she allows me to go on these hunting trips without any issues. So go support full sneak gear.com. Okay.

When does the story of this buck start?

Jason Thibodeau (11:05.341)
I think it'd probably start as soon as I got pictures of this deer, just knowing that it was definitely a deer that I would pursue. I wasn't a hundred percent sold on his age, but he was just a cool looking deer. You know, he had a five or six inch drop tie on his left side. I actually think he had another start of a drop tie. So probably maybe another inch of a drop on that side. And I never saw how many points he actually had actually until I recovered.

Dan Johnson (11:18.317)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (11:34.253)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (11:35.011)
The pictures weren't the best and I guess I could get into more of that once the story goes. so I wanted to get out before I went to Nebraska and I decided, well, I think it was November 1st. I'll head over to the property and as I'm pulling into the, sorry.

Dan Johnson (11:40.877)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (11:51.713)
When did you, one second here. When did you get the first pictures of this buck?

Jason Thibodeau (11:57.966)
Mmm It would have been in July July or August. Yeah, yep. So

Dan Johnson (12:02.175)
Okay, July, in velvet.

Okay, so in the July August time frame is when you started getting pictures of this and obviously Velvet bucks look gigantic, right? And so instantly you're like shooter Yep, okay. All right

Jason Thibodeau (12:15.513)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (12:19.577)
Yep. Yep.

So I guess I should rewind. started talking about November 1st. I should go back. was the middle of October. I decided to hunt this property for the first time. was just the weather was right. The wind was right. And I wanted to get in this spot. There was two deer on this property that I would, I would definitely pursue if I saw them, obviously the one for sure I would shoot. Cause I knew he was six and a half, just a big eight point. And then this, drop time buck. And I was, I was hung up on the fact that I kept thinking he was like three and a half and with

this where this farm is you know it's age necessarily more than antler size inches I guess if you will so anyways I said October I think 17th I was out and I had sat in my saddle and I wanted to be kind of on the north side where I expected this deer to come out and see

On the neighboring property, they had standing corn. And then behind me, was, was a picked beans. So I actually.

see this deer, this drop tine deer come out on the neighboring property and he's making all sorts of ruckus, you know, in the corn with his antlers. He comes into the timber and then he kind of loops out and lo and behold, he ends up about 20 to 30 yards from one of my other stands that I could have sat. And he's probably 70 yards away from me in the field. And I get a couple of pictures of him with my phone, but the deer never comes in. mean, he's on a desk, you know, he's just.

Dan Johnson (13:42.125)
you

Jason Thibodeau (13:50.022)
directly walking west and away from me. And I thought it was too early to call or anything, but I knew right then and there, like he looked good. I would shoot that deer. So then fast forward, I don't No, he was he was perfectly clean that I could tell from there. I got the binoculars on me. Look good.

Dan Johnson (14:01.088)
Nothing broken off, right? At this point.

Dan Johnson (14:08.727)
Gotcha.

Jason Thibodeau (14:10.997)
He actually I thought he only had like a two or three inch drop time and lo and behold it was five or six inches and it was just a nice looking deer. So I went out November 1st morning hunt and I'm going to pull into the farm and my headlights are on this deer that's standing about 20 yards in front of my truck.

And he's got half of his left main beam is broke off. But I'm standing, you he's standing there and I'm looking at him and I think, gosh, that deer is, you he's a shooter as he stands.

And then it doesn't click to me until I'm getting my stuff on that. I think that was that drop time deer. like he literally broke the side off that was probably the most meaningful of this deer. So I, I kind of just disgruntled, you know, a little upset about it and, I hate jumping deer. kind of almost backed out and then just left the property, but I thought, no, I'm gonna sit it. So I, I had a doe decoy out that morning and I had several young bucks come into it and.

Set there, it must have been somewhere around nine thirty. I see this this big body buck on the neighboring property, just full steam ahead coming to the fence line. He crosses as he's coming in. I start to realize who he is. It's the same deer that I had my headlights on as I'm getting ready to park my truck.

And I'm like, it's, is him. You know, I realized it's that drop time deer. He comes in and you know, I make this decision right then and there, you know how the, just happens that quick. Like I knew this deer was a shooter and yeah, a lot of people would say, well, why'd you shoot a deer that's missing half his rack? And well, anyways, I get a perfect 20 yard shot and it seemed like a chip shot and everything. I shoot this deer and he goes maybe 20 yards and beds down. And I thought he's, he's done. As this happens, this little

Jason Thibodeau (16:01.895)
buck comes in and he's starting to head towards that buck I just shot and I stand up to like wave him out of there because I've seen this worse because a buck will come in or a coyote will come in they'll jump that deer and then they take off well he did he saw me or the other buck and he went over the hill he got up from his bed and he went over the hill so I'm thinking okay I'll give it a couple minutes and then I'll get down I'll check my blood check the arrow all the things so as I get down

Dan Johnson (16:15.98)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (16:29.779)
Initially, initially though, when you released the arrow, did you feel it was a good shot?

Jason Thibodeau (16:36.469)
I thought I smoked him. thought, yep, yep. And that's why like when he went about 20 yards, I thought that deer's dead right there. You know, I'm yeah, he's toast and I can see him where I'm at. But in the midst of this other deer coming in, he gets up and he goes over the ridge and the ridge isn't that far from me. I couldn't hear anything else. So I thought, well, he's he's done. He's down. So I waited maybe a few minutes. I'm going to say that.

Dan Johnson (16:38.135)
Smoked him, okay. All right.

Dan Johnson (16:44.567)
Toast. Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (17:05.027)
This is Hunter error on my part, you know, and I've done this a long time and I've had this happen before I get down and the little bucket already left. So he was gone. I go down to find my arrow and everything. I can't find my arrow initially. So right away my heart sinks. Like I didn't pass through.

And so I initially thought I must have hit the opposite shoulder. Well, then I walk another maybe 10 yards and I find the broken half of my arrow. And I'll OK, well, I got good blood. I mean, I was sent you pictures, you know, the blood was excellent for the first. was it was a red carpet for probably 50 yards or better. Why, as I go up and over the ridge where I think this deer is bedded, he's gone.

and I find another bed. I find another bed. And so I tracked this deer. I think when I mapped it, it must be about a third of mile from where I shot him to the road.

And I literally was almost on hands and knees going across this bean field that was picked. And if you've ever tried to track a deer that's on the move, I mean, he literally is bleeding good, but it was, you know, dark soil and it started to dry. And I get to the road and I can tell exactly where he crossed. And he got this blood, blood trail going right across the road. And like, OK, that's good. My problem of it is I've never met this landowner across the road. So I spend the next hour making

three different phone calls to surrounding neighbors and stuff. I get the guy's phone number and he actually lives two hours away and he says, I'd rather you not go on there. I really appreciate you calling. wait till I get there. He drops what he's doing and he drives out there. So I wait for him and now we're talking, it's probably 130.

Dan Johnson (19:00.055)
So let's just, let's clarify some things here a second, okay? Because in Iowa, if I shoot a deer and I track it to a fence line and it jumps into a neighbor's property, I am allowed to set down my weapon and continue to track the deer. I can retrieve my game. But you're telling me in Illinois, you cannot do that, correct?

Jason Thibodeau (19:26.553)
From what I understand and everything I've read and talked to, you are supposed to contact the landowner and or a DNR officer.

Dan Johnson (19:33.282)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (19:37.093)
I and I'm going to err on the side of caution and say, you know, I've hunted this property for probably 12 or 13 years. I have never met this landowner because I've never had a deer run in that direction. I've met a couple of the other neighboring farmers. mean, there's one guy that owns over a thousand acres around me. So it's a pretty simple phone call. And they've all been gracious enough to let me recover deer and whatever. So I've never met this guy. And he says, give me a couple hours. I'll be out there. So now.

We're at about one 32 o'clock in the afternoon by the time that we just that he actually gets there. So we walked down the road together, introduced, you I introduced myself and everything and we get to the road and I'm like, here's here's the blood trail. You know, obviously hop the fence there. So he walks up there and he looks at the blood and he's like, yeah, he's he's.

definitely in here. He says, I've owned this property for, I don't even remember what he said, 10, 15 years, 20 years. If it's a family property, I have no idea. But he says, I never go in this timber. This is a sanctuary. And I said, okay, is this going to be a problem? And he says, well, I'd rather not go in here.

I said, well, I'm thinking that he's just going to be inside the fence dead, you know? And he says, well, if you think what kind of shot was it? And I told it to him, you know, I said, but he's gone farther than I would have hoped at this point. So we, he ends up.

Dan Johnson (21:02.327)
but they're still good blood, right?

Jason Thibodeau (21:03.961)
There's yeah. So so when once he got there, we went up to the fence line and you could see the hair and the blood across the barbed wire fence. And then on the other side, you could see a pool of blood. And so was still good blood. No, a third of a mile later. Well, we end up getting into the timber and he says, have a good idea that where these deer move based on where he has cell cameras and stuff. So, OK, do you have an idea? Because he right away when he I should back up to because.

When I talked to him on the phone, he said, what deer is it? I said, well, was a drop time deer. I'm almost positive. He sends me a picture of the deer with the drop time. And then he sends me another picture of the deer with his rack half broke off. He said he broke that about three days ago. I said, okay. Good to know. So he was buying what I said, which deer I shot. And so we get into the timber and we start tracking the blood and we get to like a point and

We jump a deer and there this deer goes not very fast at all. And so this is probably we're working on four hours since I've shot this deer and he's just kind of ventures off to the Northwest. We walk a little bit further after we jumped him and we saw that he had bedded down in three spots and then was, mean, no.

couple basketball pool s thought by the time he'd got deer bled out enough to wher to recover him. Well, th want to push any farther. a pond down there, he's g he'll end up being dead d my only problem. I'm leav to to Nebraska. I kind deer says, oh, don't worry.

Jason Thibodeau (22:52.561)
and I'll find him for you I'll let you know and whatnot. And I thought, okay. And so I was hesitant on it of even leaving to go to Nebraska. But I got the feeling that this guy just didn't want me on this property. Like he did not want to go into the sanctuary any farther. And so we talked a little bit more once we got back to the house, we backed out of the woods and went back up to his house he has there. And he was telling me all about all the property that he rents around it. And what is this?

Sanctuary and lo and behold he he only hunts like 5 % of this entire property so

I'm bummed. I know I'm going to lose the meat at this point. If this deer sits overnight, there's plenty of coyotes and stuff. I know I'm already going to lose the meat. We push this deer. I think I jumped him initially after the shot and you know, I was disappointed in myself. Like I thought I smoked that deer. I'm almost confident that I was right behind his left shoulder and I hit the opposite right shoulder. So.

I never hear anything back from this landowner. He never gets a hold of me. I tried texting him multiple times, even that night and then the next morning before I left to Nebraska, I never heard anything back.

Dan Johnson (24:02.763)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (24:10.775)
So I was persistent and I kept in touch with the guy. The guy kept sending me pictures and he would send me pictures of this big eight point that we had and then all sorts of other information, which was great. But I kept asking him like, hey, do think it's possible we could go look for that deer again? Can we go look for that deer again? You know, and he just was hesitant like, no, Illinois CWD season's coming up and if we jump all those deer in that sanctuary, they're gonna run off of a neighboring property and

There was just so much with this that I appreciate the fact that this guy cares about his deer management like he does. I appreciate that. I appreciate him letting me on his property, but I just was hung up in the fact of, can't we do this deer justice and go recover it? So lo and behold, our season's coming to an end and he ends up texting me back last week and he says, hey, I'm gonna be out at my farm.

Dan Johnson (24:57.111)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (25:09.283)
This coming week would you have a day that would work for you to come out and look for this deer and I right away I'm on cloud nine like okay great. You know we got an in and so I Set yeah, it was I mean November 1st. It was 70 some days that this deer has been out there You know so I know I'm not recovering any meat. You know

Dan Johnson (25:18.317)
It's been how many days? 70 you said?

Jason Thibodeau (25:29.093)
And so at that point, I'm not optimistic, you know, that I'm actually even going to find him. You know, I'm still kind of like bummed about it. We get there and I kid you not, Dan, we we would literally walk maybe 200 yards and we recover that deer within about 15 minutes. And, you know, you go from. Just just the.

complete low of losing a deer, wounding a deer, losing the meat, all the things, you know, because I sat there and I think, what if I would have waited another year on this deer, knowing that he broke that side and you know, all the things that go through my head after this shot happens, after I jumped that deer, like I was not patient, I got down too soon, maybe I spooked him, you know, all the things that happened. And to end the season with recovering that deer and

I couldn't be happier, I guess. And I met a pretty cool dude. This guy ended up being really cool. He sent me a ton of pictures, some video clips he's got. And I think we're gonna be able to, or I'm gonna be able to go out and shed hunt with him here middle February and stuff. And finally, 12, 13 years later, I've met the neighbor there and we've got a pretty good relationship and he respected me and I respected him. And I think that's the one thing that I took out of this is,

Dan Johnson (26:22.285)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (26:47.941)
I went through all the right steps of recovering this deer that I could do.

Dan Johnson (26:53.496)
Yeah. And that we look back, we always look back on a story like this and we say, what could I have done better? Right. But when, and this is the issue that I have and I've seen, I've seen deer fall over dead from liver shots that didn't touch lung. Right. I've seen deer fall over dead from heart shots and double lungs within sight, but I've also seen deer.

Jason Thibodeau (27:13.541)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (27:21.483)
take a double lung shot and this would have been early on in my hunting career, my stepdad, shot, he shot, I was in a fence line and he was in the same fence line just a hundred yards further down. And this buck pops up and he double lunged it. And I'm telling you, we followed a super soaker blood trail for a mile, right? And I mean, when I say a mile, I'm being serious.

It's not very often something like this happens, but when we got to it, the deer was still alive and it was a double lung, probably a high double lung shot, but double lung nonetheless. it was absolutely crazy that a deer made it that far. we like, it was a walking blood trail. Like there was no point where we had to slow down and go back to last blood.

Jason Thibodeau (28:02.82)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (28:17.899)
We were just following it and following it and following it and following it. And we ended up finding it in the CRP field with its head still up. So he finished it off and it's absolutely crazy that that deer just didn't fall over dead within a hundred yards because I've shot deer in the exact same spot and watched him tip over in 40 yards, right? That type of deal. So I'm not a hundred percent sure why.

Jason Thibodeau (28:40.675)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (28:45.762)
the reasons are and we'll probably never know but I Think this is a lesson to all hunters that if a deer Doesn't die within sight you should always Give them the benefit of the doubt and give them as much time as possible one hour two hours Yes, there are crunches that come into that, you know time crunches that come into that but

if they're out of sight, man, I've made it a deal now where unless I see them fall down, I am going back to the truck. I'm going to drink a soda or or eat a candy bar or whatever the case is. that's I keep in my truck. I'm going to chill for a little bit. I'm going to call somebody if there's someone there. Like I knew I smoked that buck in Kansas this year. But when I saw him disappear, I

got out of the tree, climbed to the top of the hill, called my uncle and I waited for him. And then we chilled for just a, you know, a little bit. And then we started the process and we, you know, we found the deer. It, we didn't push it. We didn't bump it. It fell over dead. And that's where I think a lot of people get into trouble, right? And, and right, right, wrong or indifferent. You, you felt like you smoked this deer.

Jason Thibodeau (30:06.319)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (30:14.265)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (30:14.338)
And there's so many things that you could have, should have, would have done, but that's just, that's just how it played out.

Jason Thibodeau (30:21.751)
Yeah, and I think you're absolutely right with, you know, saying that.

giving it time when you don't see that deer go down. I mean, there's so much uncertainty on the other side of the hill that you don't see and everything. Yeah, I thought I smoked him. I saw him bed down. And then once I had gotten down and realized he's not there, I mean, you just kind of your heart sinks, you know. And then once I end up realizing that I jumped this deer and then having to go through all of that, I think the biggest lesson for me 25 years later of hunting

Dan Johnson (30:31.639)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (30:56.065)
I'm just gonna be a little bit more patient next time I shoot one even if I think it's a you know double lung or a heart shot. Just just wait. What's it hurt?

Dan Johnson (31:03.275)
Yeah. Yeah. And the other, the other thing here is rules and regulations, right? You are bound by rules and regulations where I have the benefit of being able to go in and track this deer here in Iowa. You do not. when I shot a deer and it crossed a fence in South Dakota, my first year of a mule deer hunting, I, I had to contact the DNR and the DNR said, I can't give you permission to go on somebody else's land. You have to get that.

Jason Thibodeau (31:16.29)
All

Jason Thibodeau (31:31.129)
Yep. Yep.

Dan Johnson (31:33.274)
And luckily I did the phone call thing for an entire day to get a hold of one of these landowners and I got access to track it. I never found the deer. I'm guessing it bedded down and coyotes bumped it and it got up and then ran somewhere. But with that said, you have you have to follow the rules and regulations of that state.

Period, you just have to do it. And if a landowner says, I'm sorry, you have to abide by that.

Jason Thibodeau (32:09.719)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the thing for me too is I put yourself in that guy's position, you know, would you want to see somebody walk by one of your cameras and then you're like, who is this guy? You know, or know that somebody came on your property without asking. And I mean, I just think the respectful thing to do is go through the phone book, go over the go try whoever you can try to get a hold of them. I mean, luckily, somehow I got this guy's phone number because I could not find it on on X or anything like that, you know, and.

I don't know. mean, yeah, so I tracked it back and everything and that deer traveled point six miles from where I shot him and there was never a spot, a dry spot. It was a complete red carpet. So I don't I have no explanation for that, you know.

Dan Johnson (32:47.852)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (32:53.143)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (32:56.94)
So there's a couple questions I have for you here. Do you feel like you did a good job explaining to that landowner that you crushed this deer and that you took him maybe the entire, like, here's where I started, here's all the pictures of the blood, I got embedded here, and look at how much blood there was. Like, there's times where you can just go, this deer is dead.

He's going to die today. And maybe it's a thousand yards, maybe it's 40 yards, but he's gonna die based off the amount of blood that led up to the property line. When you started talking to him, first off, did you tell him the entire story? Did you show him all the pictures?

Jason Thibodeau (33:25.092)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (33:43.639)
Yep, yep. I showed him all the pictures and then, you know, obviously right away he recognized what buck it was. And then we discussed that a little bit, too, you know, and then he asked about the shot and everything. And he kept saying, I think it's a one lung shot, you know, I one lung shot. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I just I couldn't buy the fact that it was a one lung shot deer. You know, like I said, he was 20 yards in. And I won't say that's a chip shot because you still have to make your shot. But this deer, where he came in at was virtually

I

Dan Johnson (34:35.693)
Did he mule kick when you shot him?

Jason Thibodeau (34:41.605)
wasn't a high rear end kick, you know, it was just a kick a bolt. then, mean, literally 20, 30 yards that deer's standing there wobbling and then falls down. And I'm like, okay, he's done, you know, until I don't know if he sees me get up and wave at that other deer or he sees the other deer or something else got him going. But he got up, went over the hill and then don't know where he went after that. I mean, I was able to follow his blood, but I don't know what pushed him. If it was, you know, I got down too soon or what, but.

Dan Johnson (35:03.735)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (35:11.037)
I don't know. So I tried to explain the best I could to that guy and he just kept, he was not confident in the shot. And I kept saying, look at all the blood, look at all the blood. You know, I mean, we get to the spot where he's bedded three times, you know, and then we see him get up and there's a fourth bed. And I said, do you see all that blood that deer is going to be laying? But he was adamant on nobody ever goes in this square block of timber.

Dan Johnson (35:11.607)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (35:34.613)
This is a sanctuary. We don't go in here. I had to respect it. And so I did. you know, like I said, I stayed persistent and I don't feel like I was overly pushy with it or anything, but I wanted to recover this deer and put my tag on it. And I did, like I said, 200 yards later from where we jumped him. But.

Dan Johnson (35:52.589)
Yeah.

Yeah, and that's that's a difficult thing that, you know, the people who listen to this this podcast, they're going to say, well, you got to listen to the landowner. If he doesn't want you there, he doesn't want you there. And then there's going to be groups of people that are like, dude, you owe it to the deer to recover. So you have this this kind of imbalance, right? There's not a lot of. I don't know, like.

Jason Thibodeau (36:06.948)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (36:18.605)
There's nothing that you could do. You did your job. You tried to explain to this guy like this deer is going to die. And yes, we may have bumped him, but he's going to be close. Just look at the amount of blood that. And you know, 100 % that the buck that you jumped was this deer off his property. Yeah. Now I'm going to put myself in the landowner's shoes. I don't know what shot you took, right? Yeah, I see blood.

Jason Thibodeau (36:25.509)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (36:36.845)
Yeah, yep, absolutely, yep.

Jason Thibodeau (36:46.533)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right

Dan Johnson (36:48.844)
but you don't know, right? All you know is that there's some blood went into this property. We bumped him and now it's time to stay out because he does, he does wanna keep it, like he's got a sanctuary. That's how we planned his property and that's what he wants to do. Let me ask you if you were in a scenario like that because I have a scenario that I'm gonna share after this. Would you have let yourself in?

Knowing what he like just switch roles for a second Would you have let yourself in to that property?

Jason Thibodeau (37:24.921)
You know, I think if I would have actually had a little bit more time to think about everything, I probably wouldn't have gone in right away. So I'm going to answer this question kind of backwards.

Just knowing that I'd already bumped this deer, I probably would have waited longer if I would have thought about this situation, but he was adamant on coming out and everything. And so we just went as soon as he got there. You know, he didn't know where I shot the deer. So to your point, if you say, say Dan Johnson shoots a deer, I don't know Dan Johnson, but I know that you've been hunting across the road. Twelve, thirteen years worth. You call me and you say you shot a deer. OK, what's the shot like, Dan? I smoked a deer. You I got blood all the way up to here.

Okay, I guess for me, I need to see it. What do your pictures look like? Let me go back to your shot and see what your blood looks like there and everything. Is it different color blood than what you're describing to me? Does the shot look different to me than what you're describing? And that guy never did that.

And he just kept standing there saying, that's a one long shot, one long shot. You know, so I guess to answer that question, I don't know if I would. I mean, we have neighbors on some properties that have had to come over and recover deer. And automatically we always ask the same question, like.

Can you see your deer from where you're at? know, I mean, like, do you have good blood? What was the shot like? And we've let people come over and recover their deer before. So it wasn't a huge deal. But I see your point with this and this is a sanctuary and this guy does not want people going in there. I don't know. Maybe I wouldn't let you on right away. Maybe I'd say, let's wait till later and come back a few hours later. Maybe then we'll recover your deer.

Dan Johnson (39:12.395)
Right. And then the fact that he said he was going to come back the next day. Right. And then he didn't come back the next day. Right.

Jason Thibodeau (39:18.753)
Right, right.

Yeah, so that's when I started to get like, okay, what is the story with this dude? You know, I've never met him. He doesn't want me on here. Like what's going on? You know, thinking it's some sort of, you know, illegal game farm or something at this point, you know, and like then just disgruntled with the fact of don't you want me to recover this deer? I mean, you have pictures of this deer. Are you mad because I shot this deer? You know, and I kept feeling like there was that. And then, I remember describing it to my brother, you know, and he's like, there's just something weird about it. Like what's why is he not

Dan Johnson (39:41.463)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (39:52.576)
you just go get your deer. And I did, like I said, I was just patient, persistent. And then when it, when the time came, I'm gonna take them up on the offer and go look for my deer. And yeah, there's no meat left. And it was definitely the same deer. Just for everybody else, like listening, I did look over the carcass and I could not find like where the broadhead hit any sort of bone, but I never found

Dan Johnson (39:55.082)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (40:20.709)
the opposite shoulder. Like there was three legs there, the fourth leg was missing. So I don't know. I have no idea. He pulled it apart. Yeah. Yep. Yep. But there was literally nothing left to him other than hair on his on his head. I mean, it was all bones at that point. So

Dan Johnson (40:27.853)
Like the coyotes got to it and pulled it apart or something like that. Yeah. Okay.

Dan Johnson (40:41.708)
Yeah, and at that point, really, you did your due diligence. You tried as hard as you possibly could to recover this deer. And in a state with a law like that. I don't know. I mean, I wish I could sit here and say killed, killed deer good enough to where they die on your property, but that's not always the case if you're chasing deer deer. Don't go, OK, this is Jason's property. We have to die on it because he's the one who shot, you know, he's the one who shot me.

Jason Thibodeau (41:00.879)
Yeah. All right.

Jason Thibodeau (41:08.581)
Right, right.

Dan Johnson (41:11.597)
They don't have to do that. And then you can also look at this other guy's point of view where he's like, I don't know you. I don't know what kind of shot it was. All I know is that I don't want you on my property busting up my sanctuary. But here's the difficult part that would be difficult for me to understand. Yes, that landowner can do or say whatever he wants. It's his property, right? He could have told you to go fuck yourself.

Jason Thibodeau (41:24.719)
Alright.

Alright.

Jason Thibodeau (41:32.335)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (41:38.372)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yep, yep.

Dan Johnson (41:42.006)
Right? He could have. But he played along with you for a little bit. The issue that I had was, I don't think in this story, this guy didn't hunt this property, nor did he hunt hardly at all, correct? This year?

Jason Thibodeau (41:58.317)
Yeah, yeah, see, okay, so that that's what I was trying to figure out too. Even when we went and recovered that deer, he was he was like, okay, I got to change batteries in my cell cameras. So when we go in, we're going to change batteries. And once we get down to where this deer is, there's like three cell cameras around this pond. And I'm like, how did you not see this deer go past the camera?

Because he literally went past, he had to have gone past the camera and then died on just the north bank of the pond. And I'm thinking, you never went in here? You never saw it? You know, like it just, seemed really strange to me, you know, and then there's box blinds here and there. And I'm like,

But he kept telling me he only hunted one weekend in January. That was like the first, the first weekend of January, because he said the weather wasn't good all season. He didn't have time. And then he finally made it out. And I don't know. It just, some of it seemed really fishy to me and Hey, I had to obey by it because it was his land. So.

Dan Johnson (42:55.138)
Right. Yeah. That's just like strange. Like if I was a guy who had a property, I don't know, it's just me. Right? Like I would give the hunter the benefit of that. I'm like, let's get in there. I would want to be there when it happened. Like, okay, I'll get my truck. You can come with me. You're going to walk. We're going to recover this deer together and then I'll help you pull it out. And then once you get out of there, you can go do whatever you want with it. Right. But I would want to be a part of it.

Jason Thibodeau (43:11.045)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (43:21.861)
Right. Right.

Dan Johnson (43:23.905)
Right? And that's what I would expect if I shot a deer on my property and it jumped into somebody else's, right? I would expect that those courtesies to be exchanged. But the fact that this guy never really haunted and again, it's not up to you. It's up to him to decide what he does on his property. But it just seems, it just seemed odd a little bit.

Jason Thibodeau (43:30.532)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (43:42.981)
All

That's what I kept thinking the whole time. Like something about this seems odd. And then he started telling me about neighboring properties that he's renting just so other hunters aren't shooting young deer. Like he wants to build the deer herd back up, the big buck population back up. And I'm like, hey, that's great on my end.

But I guess if you have the money and you want to just rent something and never hunt it, I guess that's your deal. But I mean, puts in lush food plots and all these things. And I have never seen all this stuff in the entire time of me hunting there. I've never known that one guy hunts all this or, quote unquote, doesn't hunt it. It just nothing really added up to me. So.

Dan Johnson (44:11.767)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (44:22.475)
Yeah. Right.

So this guy just sounds like he has the money to blow and he wants to, he wants to create an environment that grows gigantic deer. And then he, you know, whenever the gigantic deer shows up, then he goes and which isn't really out of the ordinary. Like I can remember having a conversation with Andre Dequisto, right? Everybody knows Andre Dequisto, giant buck killer.

Jason Thibodeau (44:53.53)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (44:57.004)
And he, we were talking at an ATA show one time and I was saying like, you know, how's your year going? He's like, on the properties that I hunt, I don't have any bucks I want to shoot. So he didn't go hunting because there was nothing in the giant category that he wanted to go and hunt. yeah, I'm sure there's guys out there like that. And so it is what it is, right? That guy can do whatever he wants. You.

Jason Thibodeau (45:06.597)
Mm-hmm. All right.

Jason Thibodeau (45:15.706)
Alright.

Jason Thibodeau (45:22.809)
Hi.

Dan Johnson (45:25.685)
I'm sure there's things that you wish that you could have done differently though.

Jason Thibodeau (45:31.159)
Yeah, I think so. And I mean, to kind of emphasize the big deer part, I know there was one deer that he wanted to shoot and that deer disappeared. mean, I had this is a big eight point that I've talked about. I had him at 30 yards, you know, and that deer disappeared. I think he got shot the first day of Illinois shotgun season. Actually, I think he got shot south of where I hunt. But I think what like going back to the deer that I actually shot, I thinking about the story

Dan Johnson (45:46.157)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (45:55.501)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (46:01.123)
Listening to him. I think I probably upset him because I shot that deer Specifically because I shot him when he was broken, but I also shot a deer that I mean this deer would have had 15 points I Think I think he was trying to grow the deer to another age class, you know and

Dan Johnson (46:07.735)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (46:21.349)
He probably looked at me like I'm some dumb young kid that you know just gonna shoot first thing that walks by and probably didn't put into you know the fact that I'm hunting like five acres of woods you know and and like to get an opportunity at a deer that that class I mean I don't know there's so many things I wish I would have done different about it, but I'm glad I shot it I'm glad I recovered it so

Dan Johnson (46:48.482)
Yeah, yeah. know, there comes a time I share a property where I have, and I've shared this property, I've got to know these guys. They're really good dudes. I think I shared this story with most of the people about the shotgun hunters that came in and started messing with all my trail cameras. Well, they messed with their trail cameras too, not just mine. And so I...

We have a good relationship. talk a little bit about things, but I think their standards are lower than mine. And I, for a little while there, was like, dude, why'd you shoot this three-year-old knowing that there's four four-year-olds on the farm that you guys can go after? But then I was like, okay, that's a douchebag move for me to tell somebody else what they should and should not shoot, right?

Jason Thibodeau (47:21.925)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (47:27.716)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (47:41.54)
Alright.

Dan Johnson (47:42.562)
So now I just congratulate him and say, man, great shot, good buck, whatever the case is. Maybe it's my standards, maybe it's not. I just, I stopped getting jealous. I stopped worrying about what other people were hunting and I just went out and I did me, man. That's really all you can do is I just, I did me.

Jason Thibodeau (47:58.297)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I think that's pretty much what it was too. For me, I shot a deer that, I mean...

He would have been a nice deer to put on the wall and whether he was broken or not. I do have a cool story about the so the broken half of his beam, the landowner who let me on his property, he said he's pretty confident in where this deer broke the antler off at. He thinks the big wide eight point broke it off like three days prior to me shooting him. So he says, we'll just go in there when we shed hunt and hopefully we can recover that too. And I so I mean, there might be more to this story at the end of the day where I get to piece this buck back together and.

Dan Johnson (48:23.191)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (48:37.859)
You know, I got to meet a fellow hunter that's all about managing the deer herd and stuff. He talks, you know, highly about growing these bucks to a better age class than what they are. And, you know, there's some there's some good with it. You know, it took a long time to meet him, you know, but I hey, I guess it's how it goes. So.

Dan Johnson (48:38.529)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (48:53.526)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (48:58.774)
Yeah, I mean, and also look at look at it from this way. You could be enemies with the guy and shit talk him or you could be the guy who's like, you know what? This is just another resource. Now we can start exchanging information. You know, we can be civil with each other. We can, you know, we can exchange pictures. We, know, he's he might let you shed hunt a property with him. Right. And so and so that might, you know, you might this might be the the beginning of a beautiful relationship.

Jason Thibodeau (49:09.999)
Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (49:20.665)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (49:28.427)
Jason and it's going to be a benefit, right?

Jason Thibodeau (49:28.517)
Hahahaha

Yeah, yeah, I absolutely think so. I mean, because the guy, like I said, you know, once there comes a point, you're you know, you're not going to get the meat off of this deer. And I think that's probably what he got to was he couldn't make it out there. He wasn't going to be able to find it. And he thought, let's just wait. Let's wait hunting season out and then we'll go in and we'll recover it together. And but he's been since since I met him, he has been more than gracious almost every single week. I get a whole catalog basically of pictures from him.

Dan Johnson (49:52.749)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (50:02.009)
And it's pretty cool because a lot of the pictures I get, they're of bucks that I have no clue exist right across the road. So I don't know. Like I said, I think the guy up and down and he thanked me for going about things the way I went. So I guess if there's any silver lining in this for anybody is maybe don't give up.

Just approach it the best way that you can and be respectful to you know a fellow landowner or fellow hunter Be respectful be persistent and try to get your your animal. I mean, that's obviously your goal you want to recover it, but also Keep in mind that you know if it was you in the other side of the fence. How would you look at it?

Dan Johnson (50:42.421)
Yeah, yeah, there's two, there's two sides to every story and point of view and whatnot. Now, the other, the other thing I want to talk about, and it's something you brought up off the air before we like, after we recorded one of the how to hunt deer podcasts. And that was a little bit of hesitation to tell this story because of the perception from the hunting community. And what were your, what were your concerns there?

Jason Thibodeau (51:06.916)
Alright.

Jason Thibodeau (51:10.947)
Well, think for me, initially was, you know, the huge disappointment that I had in myself of...

I make a good clean shot or if I did, I pushed this deer too fast. You know, I think part of it, not wanting to really come out and tell the story about it was the fact that I didn't recover this deer until 70 some days later, you know, and I think you can look at it both ways where, okay, the guy did everything he could do to recover his deer, you know, but then you can also look at it like, did he though, you know, he could have gone back the next day or well, why didn't he push to get in there the next day with that?

that landowner. And I just felt like in that moment, I was on a teeter totter of like, how far do I push this guy? How far do I push this guy ended letting me on his property when he's already adamantly told me, I don't want to go in here sanctuary.

Dan Johnson (52:03.051)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, I think the the first thing is fuck what other people think like first and foremost, like who gives a shit right? No, nobody cares. The other thing is. This is reality. Right, this isn't pretend this isn't pretend this isn't a movie. This is real. This is real. This is what really happened, and I'm sure that this story.

Jason Thibodeau (52:11.915)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Jason Thibodeau (52:20.25)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (52:25.669)
All right.

Jason Thibodeau (52:30.073)
Alright.

Dan Johnson (52:33.643)
relates to a lot of people every year. mean, hell, it relates to me, man. I've lost deer before. I went on long ass blood trails, but a lot of times didn't have a deer at the end of it. Shit, it was last year. Right, last year I shot a booner and never recovered him. The next, I lost track of him. I didn't see any blood and luckily he survived and was shot late season by another

Jason Thibodeau (52:38.917)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (52:45.53)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (52:49.409)
Yeah. Yep.

Dan Johnson (53:02.795)
by another hunter, I mean, what are you supposed to do? Make up some shit or not tell the story? No, that's not what you do. You tell the story, you tell the truthful version of it, and guess what? People are gonna relate to it, man.

Jason Thibodeau (53:04.121)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (53:10.423)
Yeah,

Jason Thibodeau (53:18.691)
Well, that's the thing is like, didn't really want to tell this story until I put a closure to it, meaning finding this deer, you know, because to me, I knew that deer was over there. I knew he was going to be dead. It was just a matter of when's this guy going to let me on his property now? I mean, like I said, once you got to like two, three days after I shot this deer, that deer could lay there for an entire season. You know, I wanted to tag this deer and.

Dan Johnson (53:25.911)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (53:32.983)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (53:43.333)
have put a closure to it, you know, and luckily I was able to do that. So I, I don't know. I go back and forth with like, gosh dang it, you know, I maybe I should have pushed a little bit harder, but I felt like I'd already used all the resource in that. And I just did not want to ruin what could have potentially been, you know, a friendship too, or I didn't want to have a, you know, pissing match with a guy across the road for the next, however many years I hunt there.

Dan Johnson (53:45.666)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (54:10.635)
Right. Yeah, I get it, dude. I mean, I get it. I get it. But it's reality, and I think you did the right thing. My only other question to you is, after this whole thing played out, do you still think you smoked this deer?

Jason Thibodeau (54:26.881)
Absolutely. I think I jumped this deer. Yeah, I well when When when I say smoke this deer I think my arrow hit the perfect spot the only problem I have with it is Why didn't it pass through so there's something telling me I either hit that? Offside shoulder leg something in there, and I I don't know that part I don't know if that's a perfect shot. You know to answer that question. I mean cuz

Dan Johnson (54:29.069)
Okay. You jumped him too early and then the adrenaline.

Jason Thibodeau (54:55.109)
you should have a clean pass through on a perfect shot.

Dan Johnson (54:59.201)
Right. This is a crazy question. Do you feel your broadhead may have malfunctioned? I mean, that's gotta be a thought that pops through people's heads.

Jason Thibodeau (55:07.001)
You know...

I thought this time and time again, and it made me in the middle of season go from shooting a mechanical back to shooting a fixed blade again, you know, and it's it you that's that hunter doubt, you know, when you when you doubt your equipment, when you feel like something's not working or didn't happen the way you thought it did. yeah, you start questioning everything. You go back home, you reshoot your bow, make sure you're dialed in. But yeah, I seriously debated the broadhead, you know, and I know I'm shooting a heavy enough arrow. I know I'm

shooting enough poundage and all that and a deer at 20 yards, this should have been a recovered deer within a couple hundred yards. I wish I would have had my camera on, you know, so I knew that, you know, so I knew exactly where that shot was and I didn't. And that's...

Dan Johnson (55:49.057)
Yeah, that's great.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's crazy. Because I have a long time ago when I first started the hunting gear podcast. No, no, actually, I had not started it yet. I was still doing a lot of the gear conversations on the nine finger Chronicle side of things. And I had a conversation with a guy and this guy goes, it is. Physics.

Like from a physics standpoint, it is impossible for our broadhead to not open. And I was like, that's cool. You know, physics, I believe in science. But then I helped a buddy recover a deer using one of those broadheads and the hole on entry was this big, size of a quarter. And then the hole on exit was also the size of a quarter.

Jason Thibodeau (56:24.901)
Hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (56:34.404)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (56:46.413)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (56:51.213)
And then we took the lungs apart and we saw that broadhead did not open. This mechanical did not open. So.

You know, that shit happens to dude. And a lot of these companies will say, no, it's impossible. I'm telling you, it's possible. Right. Is it, is it a rarity? Yes. It's, probably a rarity. One out of every a thousand or 2000 broadheads maybe have a malfunction or something breaks or ticks or clicks or, you know, whatever. Maybe if it's, maybe it's one in every 10,000, but there, if it, especially on mechanicals, dude, if it moves,

Jason Thibodeau (57:02.071)
I think... Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (57:09.881)
apps, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (57:29.675)
there's a problem, something could go wrong.

Jason Thibodeau (57:32.237)
Well, first off, yeah, there's a problem something could go wrong.

But anything that's moving takes away from your energy. know, so I really got diving into that thing again, you know, and I've had deer that I've recovered with real small diameter fixed blades. I've had deer I recovered with big gigantic, you know, expandables and vice versa, you know, and really a lot of it comes down to it's shot placement at the end of the day. But I literally was in the middle of season. like, man, I don't want to switch broadheads and all that right now. But I started doubting that.

Dan Johnson (57:38.487)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (58:05.679)
expandable and I went back to a fixed blade and so here we go you know it's a whole nother year and I don't know that's a I think I made a good shot but

Dan Johnson (58:09.92)
Yep.

Dan Johnson (58:16.395)
Yeah, here's what I do know. And I think you should tell this story to your kindergarten class the next time you substitute teacher for him. Yeah, guys, I knew I smoked him. I knew I smoked him. Right. Blood was all over the place. Like, imagine, imagine a kindergarten, kindergartener going home and telling their parents the story of our substitute teacher told us a story about shooting a deer and following blood and things like that. And dude.

Jason Thibodeau (58:24.193)
Yeah. Yup. Yup.

Jason Thibodeau (58:42.188)
Right.

Dan Johnson (58:46.049)
But hey, end of the day, you got the deer, right?

Jason Thibodeau (58:46.058)
I doubt I did at the end of the day. Yeah, that's that's hunting too. You know, that's the highs and lows of it. So now I was happy to recover, happy to put my tag on it. And my season is pretty much done. So.

Dan Johnson (58:53.803)
Yep. Yep.

Dan Johnson (59:01.505)
Yep, absolutely. Well, Jason, thanks for taking time to share this story with us. That's it, dude. Make sure everybody listens to the How to Hunt Deer podcast. Be sure that everybody checks out Tethered Wasp Vortex Code Blue Huntworth Reveal in full sneak gear. I believe there's going to be some new partners coming to the Nine Finger Chronicles here, maybe by the end of February, depending on some deals that I work out at hell even. And I'll tell you this on the air.

Jason Thibodeau (59:08.399)
Sounds good.

Dan Johnson (59:30.411)
We might even be having a partner for the how to hunt deer podcast. Yeah. Yeah. That's how good, that's how good you are, dude. That's how good you are.

Jason Thibodeau (59:34.177)
Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, hey, no, this story didn't make me sound real good. and if anybody listens to the How to Hunt Deer podcast, they're not going to want to take my advice.

Dan Johnson (59:42.126)
That would be that would be crazy if all of a sudden It's like yeah, Dan. We were all go until we heard Jason tell that story and now I'm sorry. We're backing out of this deal. So We can't we can't do it. All right, dude Hey, thanks again for taking time to do this. Good luck to anybody who still has season left Especially all you crazy assholes from the south

Jason Thibodeau (59:54.181)
Yeah, we're now we can't do the same or

Dan Johnson (01:00:10.402)
Good luck with your Southern Ruts. Be safe, have fun, and we'll talk to you next time.

‍