Diving into the Infamous "Rutcation"

In this episode of the Pennsylvania Woodsman, Mitch is joined by Grant Forney of the Everyday Outdoorsman to discuss the nuances of hunting during the rut.  This conversation emphasizes the importance of weather conditions, historical knowledge and strategic planning. They share personal experiences and insights on deer behavior, hunting techniques, and the excitement of the rut during archery season, providing valuable tips for both novice and seasoned hunters. In this conversation, Mitch and Grant discuss various aspects of deer hunting in Pennsylvania, focusing on hunting patterns, communication tactics with deer, the significance of all-day sits during the rut, and the mental challenges hunters face. They also share personal experiences and advice for both novice and experienced hunters, emphasizing the importance of patience, persistence, and enjoyment in the hunting experience.

Mitchell Shirk (00:44.035)

joining me on this week's show of returning guests, I'm glad to have them on the show. Perfect time to be talking with them. Good to catch up with you, Grant, Grant from the everyday outdoorsman pal. Thanks for sitting down with us tonight. How you been?

Grant (00:58.83)

Pretty good man, pretty good. First off, yeah, thanks for having me on. Always a pleasure. Always love talking some hunting too, but I'm doing good. It's my favorite time of year. I've had a fun hunting season thus far and I love deer hunting no matter what time of the season it is, but if I had to pick one time of the year to hunt, it would be right now during the rut. So this is my favorite time of year. So I'm looking forward here to

some good rut hunting in the days ahead.

Mitchell Shirk (01:31.603)

Yeah, let's hope. mean, as we're recording this, we're going into the weekend of the eighth, ninth, tenth. And that weekend, you know, lot of people have their favorite dates. I've heard a lot of people talk about their favorite dates being November 7th, eighth, ninth, whatever it is. We're going into that. the thing that I think gets a lot of people excited has me a little bit excited. You know, we're right now today when I was working, my truck said 76 degrees on my truck and it was, you know,

Freezy kind of that not what you'd expect this first day. I'm looking ahead the the place that I plan to hunt Friday the forecast from Thursday morning to Friday morning has a 12 degree drop in the low temperature and You know to me that gets me a little bit excited. I can't I'm not gonna sit here and say that that's 100 % the key to shooting a big deer is waiting for that temperature swing because I have shot some fantastic deer in 80 degrees

But I will say I enjoy hunting and that more. like, well, that was a question I was having for you. Like you've been hunting hard, you hunt hard a lot, Grant. And I was curious, you know, hot weather, we see a temperature drop. Is that one of the biggest things that you look for when you're looking ahead and planning hunts is watching the weather, watching the temperature drop? What are things that gets you excited aside from just a date, a calendar date?

Grant (02:27.534)

Mm-hmm.

Grant (02:50.486)

No, you hit it. You hit it spot on. The temperature drops, the cold fronts. That's what you're looking for. At least for me. I think that's the number one thing that gets me excited really at any point during the season. Especially, I would say especially in October and November. When you get a temperature drop, yeah. In my opinion, there's nothing that'll shut down the movement more than

warm temps and there's nothing that'll turn it on more than a big temp drop and a cold front. So like you said, I'm fired up for these next few days, specifically Friday and Saturday. I couldn't help but smile when you started talking about dates and you always like to ask people like, are your favorite days of the rut? And it's like...

That's a subject that I could talk for hours just on that. It's like I always kind of like to dive into that subject and ask guys what their thoughts and opinions are on it. I think the weather plays such a big part in the rut and what we see. Not the timing of the rut, but the movement that we get to see during daylight as hunters. I think temperature.

has a huge effect on that. So I think these next few days should be really good. So hopefully you and I both did it pretty good.

Mitchell Shirk (04:21.939)

I really hope so. I I'm looking for some good hunting action. You know what? When we were talking about the temperature drop, this is just my personal opinion or what I have noticed or kind of had a mental log book about. I have noticed that when you, you know, we start season the first Saturday, the closest to October 1st usually. And when I think about looking at the weather,

You know, let's just say you've got that stretch in the beginning of October that's in that mid fifties into low seventies and you have that continual swing into October. then some, sometimes it's the first week. Sometimes it's the second week into the third, whatever, but that first major cold snap you get the one that takes your low temperatures from the mid fifties down to the mid to low thirties. You see that and I go, my gosh.

That is going to be a fantastic day. I can't wait to get in the tree. That's going to be the best day of October so far. And I can't tell you how many times I have climbed into the tree, got all my warm clothing out, bundled into the tree, and I didn't see a freaking deer for the first three hours of my sit. And then it gets to be that time, 10 o'clock, and you're thinking, geez, I'm peets, nothing is going to happen. Then all of sudden, boom, I start seeing deer. I've seen that on trail cameras. I've seen that in my personal sits.

What I've noticed it's for me. It seems like in October you get that You know 10 11 o'clock and I just have better evening hunts when you have that that cold switch I just don't have great morning hunts on that like having those deer right at first light moving I haven't seen that but what I will say is once you get that first cold snap in October and then you get into times like this where it is

in the 70s, it's miserable. And then you look ahead and you see this forecast coming this weekend where it's going to be the low to mid 30s for the low and it's in November. Then I'm thinking, man, that's the kind of morning where when the light cracks, there's a good chance a good shooter is going to come right past me. mean, what's been your experience when you think about cold fronts throughout archery season?

Grant (06:34.222)

Pretty similar to what you described, I would say. The October cold fronts, they get me excited, for sure. But they can still be hit or miss. It's like, I've had times where I thought it was gonna be a killer day, and it wasn't anything like I thought it would be. I think I better success on the evening hunts, like you said too. The mornings, just like you described, I've had it too where...

they show up late morning. You get that late morning movement during the October cold fronts. But usually you can bank on it being pretty good like this time of year, like those last five days of October or any time here during November, you get that, when you get that temp drop from like, you know, this week, for example, like you said you had what, 76 today, I think.

on my way here today, I saw 78 at one point for November 6th, it's just insane. And so you go from that, from now, the temperature is gonna be dropping all day tomorrow, tomorrow night, and then throughout Friday and Saturday. Those days should be awesome. I'll put it this way, I like to think of it like the bucks and the deer are gonna be moving somewhere.

Mitchell Shirk (07:34.45)

Mmm.

Grant (07:59.758)

The biggest question is like, will we as hunters put ourselves in the right spot? That's how the rut is. You know, you, it's like, you gotta be in the right spot to see it and to witness it. So like you can have days that are just completely dead just cause you're in the wrong spot. You're just not, not where the deer at, but if you're in the right spot, they're gonna be, they're gonna be moving. Those deer, those deer are moving somewhere for sure. And they will be, I'm pretty certain they will be Friday and Saturday. It's just a matter of,

Mitchell Shirk (08:03.69)

absolutely.

Grant (08:29.538)

being right place, right time, I think.

Mitchell Shirk (08:32.563)

So I'm going to be open and vulnerable on this episode and I'm going to let Grant give me his best advice. So this is the way my season's gone. I told you a little bit before, I have not really hunted a lot this year. Personal reasons and everything else, the way life goes, just haven't deer hunted a lot. This weekend, I am jacked up. Not just because of the weather and everything we just talked about, but I'm going to my cabin. one of my things I'd really like to do is shoot a good buck at my cabin. Now that said,

Grant (08:49.07)

Mm-hmm.

Mitchell Shirk (09:01.435)

I have done absolutely zero scouting in preparation for the 2024-2025 hunting season at that location. So I don't have my expectations set very highly. So I've got a couple ideas of how I want to approach this. I have some areas that I know historically, whether it's from cameras I've had out in the past, hunting experiences I've had in those areas. I know some places that could be good, but I've got two days to hunt and I'm

trying to figure out how I would approach it. And I've got two thoughts. I thought about going in blind to some areas and just hanging a stand and then scouting. The other thought I had was maybe taking my shotgun for a walk. Maybe I'll find some grass and some turkeys along the way and also find some deer sign. But I'm curious when I give you that description, you're going into an area blind on what could be the best days we've seen this year. I mean,

Number one, I'm still trying to figure out what my expectations are for myself. That's not for you to answer, but what I would say is how would you approach a situation like that?

Grant (10:00.398)

That's a really good question. We're going to get really into the nitty gritty here, the details of how to approach some rut hunts. I here would be my thoughts. think, well, you talked a little bit about historical hunting in past years or maybe historical trail camera data even. I think if you haven't scouted this season,

You've got to, you've got to go off that historical knowledge a little bit. And in my opinion, we're into a portion of the season now where you're in season scouting, like might not be as important. I think like, if you go for a walk in the woods right now and you're looking for, you're looking for sign, I think there's a pretty good chance that you're too late on the sign already, if that makes sense.

So like, I think you almost have to go more so by your knowledge of that area from the past, land features, funnels, pinch points, use any knowledge you have of doe bedding areas to possibly set up on the downwind side of a doe bedding area. If it were me looking at it, that's probably how I would approach it. Like I would, I would,

e-scout it or use whatever whatever knowledge you have of that area in the past and I'd probably pick Whatever you think is the best pinch point or funnel to catch a buck cruising through With the hopes that on Friday and Saturday bucks are going to be covering ground They're going to be they're going to be cruising for a hot dough if they're not already with one so I'd say that's one option is a funnel or a pinch point and number two would be

the downwind side of doe bedding that you know of, if you know of any in that area from your past years hunting there. I would say that, and that would be how I would look at it. And I'd probably just, I'd probably pick one of those two things. If you know a doe bedding area or you have a funnel or a pinch point where you've hunted before, or you've had a camera before and had bucks running through it.

Mitchell Shirk (12:07.709)

Absol-

Grant (12:24.598)

Obviously things can change from year to year, but they can be consistent too. So I would say that wouldn't be a bad move, be pick one of those two things, go in, hang a set, sit it all day, Friday, see what happens. If it were me, that's probably what I would do.

Mitchell Shirk (12:43.249)

I like that. I have to say a lot of that. would echo it myself. One of the things that I have in my mind, there's, there's, there's, I'm going to describe this, the spot I'm thinking, you know, there's a spot that we've done some, some deer drives on, and I've had some cameras on and kind of watched here and there's some, sometimes there's, it's, it's a very distinct, it's a, it's a sharp point. It's a, it's a pretty steep ridge, bends basically 90 degrees goes out to the north and then cuts back to the east. And on this point, there's a pretty nice bench before it drops off.

And I've run a camera out on a scrape there the past few years and I've noticed, you know, this time of year, sometime between, you know, the fifth, sixth, seventh up through until right before bear season. I'll get deer that cruise this ridge a lot. And basically what I'm looking at is it's a long range connection point, kind of a focal point between, you know, on these mountains and kind of what I'm looking at in that area in general is.

You know, you look at one point on a mountain here, you look at one point on a mountain here and there's a bench, you know, a hundred yards below it that comes out to this way and there's a bench below it that comes out to this point and it all comes to one central location. And I'm just trying to think, how can I get multiple intersections of this mountain and hope that that's going to then funnel deer down? Because it is it's big woods. There is chop offs in the area, but some of the places I'm looking at are like backside of chop offs.

It's big, it's monotonous. It might not work, but at the same time, it makes the most sense for if you get a, you know, a 12 degree drop in temperature, where in theory, and the way my mind works is there's probably not a lot moving a long distance, but maybe that temperature swing, maybe, you who knows what receptive dough or like, but hopefully that's enough to just get a deer on a, on one of those.

Benches or one of those ridges and at some point boom he's in my lap and I've got these multiple points of intersection and hope that works That's kind of what I've got to go on in this situation

Grant (14:41.164)

Yeah, that sounds like a killer setup to me. think anytime during the rut Especially on a couple of days like this where we think the bucks are gonna move and cover some ground if they're not already with a hot dough If you can like you said have as much coming together in one spot as you can that's That's a killer setup You know multiple multiple ridges coming into one spot or whatever the case may be

You know, just any type of a major intersection. That sounds like a pretty good setup for this weekend especially. And especially like if you have, you know, you're saying you have some historical data there too of running a camera there, seeing bucks moving through there during this time of year. That sounds like it'd be a smart play in my mind.

Mitchell Shirk (15:35.463)

Hey, let's hope it sounds good in my head, but we're going to play it out and see what happens. And the biggest thing that I'm going to try to do with this is I'm not going to set my expectations overly high. I'm not going to go into this thinking, hey, the best year I've had on the camera the past three years, I'm probably going to kill him in this situation. I don't know that because so much has changed. I don't know if the pressure changed in this spot from one year to the next.

I don't know how much different the food sources is. This year is extremely dry. Is that going to have a change in deer being high versus low? And like I said, that's why I said I'm going to be vulnerable. I don't know. I didn't do the work. But you know what? What I am going to do is I'm going to go to a place I enjoy to hunt. I'm going to try to have as much fun as I can. I'm going to try to be successful. But I'm going to embrace that adventure for what it is.

So one of the questions I had for you, you you talked about the date range and really liking to talk about dates. So let's do that for a second. As we sit, it's November 6th as we're talking here, we're talking about the eighth and the ninth being looking fantastic. And then we've got, know, eighth, ninth, all the way up until bear season, which I believe if the calendar is in front of me, I want to say it's like the 23rd this year. So we have archery season statewide up until the 22nd.

So we've got a solid two weeks and two days from the time we're recording this to try to kill a buck with the bow. Walk me through however you want to break that two weeks down. Like, what are you looking at the next two weeks as far as your hunting scheme and how you view the woods, how you move your sets and stuff like that.

Grant (17:12.332)

Yeah, no really good question. I think

You look at it from a big picture, like we said at the beginning, a lot of it's weather dependent. So any couple of days stretch in these two weeks where you have the best weather, it's like those would be the better days to hunt in my mind. Now let's pretend weather is created equal here over these next two weeks. Let's just like, let's take it out of the equation, specifically talk about dates.

I you gotta ask yourself what your goals are. it all depends. If somebody's hunting one specific deer, well then that changes everything. I think if you're hunting an area and just hunting for any buck in that area that makes you happy, I think these next...

Let's see, what are we at here, the sixth? I would say the next several days here, like the seventh to around the 12th, I would lean towards hunting funnels and pinch points if it were me. That's probably what my strategy would be for the most part. You get into those double digit days of November, that middle part of November where the estrus bell curve

kind of reaches its peak, you know, from like maybe the 12th through the 20th or 12th to the 18th, I guess, is like in our area, what would be considered the peak of the estrus, what some guys would consider, you know, the lockdown phase, so to speak, of the rut. That's a whole nother topic, I guess, but that phase where the majority, where you have the most dose in estrus that you're gonna have during.

Grant (19:14.318)

That's the phase where I think you'll lean towards hunting the downwind side of doe bedding areas. That would be my strategy. If you dive into it a little more, I think if you're hunting for the biggest buck in the woods, like the giant, the one that's four, five, six years old or more,

The biggest buck or two in your area, I think your chances to kill that buck are a little bit later. I think your chances to kill that biggest buck in the woods are a little bit better right after the peak of the estrus. From what I have seen on trail cameras and seen in the woods, I think that would be my opinion.

If you're just, if you're hunting for just, you know, any buck or, you know, a solid two or three year old buck, right now is probably, probably going to be your best, your best days of the year, you know, from, from right now, the sixth through the 10th or 12th. I think that's, that's really going to be the peak of our buck movement when these bucks are still, still,

still needing to cover a decent amount of ground to find a doe in estrus. We're still right before, you know, a ton of does are coming into estrus. We've obviously got some, but we're before that peak. So, so we're going to, we're going to see good, good buck movement. not that you can't see the biggest buck in the woods over the next couple of days. You very well could. It's just, I think your chances are a little bit lower because

Mitchell Shirk (21:03.357)

Right.

Grant (21:09.39)

since he's the dominant buck in the area, it's easier for him to find his next estrous doe. So he's got to spend, so that's the way I always look at it. I try to look at the rut from the viewpoint of a buck, right? So like, if you look at it through the eyes of a big buck or a mature buck, the biggest buck in the woods, he's going to find a hot doe, tend her. When she's out of estrous, he's going to go find his next one.

Especially if you're hunting in a high doe population area, he doesn't have to search that hard to find his next hot doe. When he finds her, he's going to be able to kick off whatever buck is with her. So then he's got his next doe. So it just decreases our chances as a hunter of catching him in between does, if that makes sense. when you get, I think when you get after the peak of the estrus,

Mitchell Shirk (22:00.523)

We

Grant (22:06.498)

when those big monsters have to search a little bit harder for their next doe, that's when our chances get a little bit better of seeing one of those ones.

Mitchell Shirk (22:15.442)

You've heard the story of the old bull and the young bull in the pasture,

Grant (22:20.974)

I don't think I have.

Mitchell Shirk (22:22.589)

So there's an old bull and there's a young bull and they're standing at the top of the hill in the pasture and they're looking down in the valley and they see this huge herd of heifers and the young bull says to the old bull, hey, we should run down the hill and we should breed one of those heifers. And the old bull looks at him and says, how about we walk down and let's breed them all. And the joke I say with that when I make this joke with deer is I have seen mature deer like you're talking about. I have seen them.

Grant (22:24.588)

Yeah.

Mitchell Shirk (22:50.099)

When you get into that time where like end of October or November, beginning of November when young bucks are running crazy and they're hitting scrapes and they're responding to calls and they're doing this, they're chasing, they're going wild. I've seen them do that. And at the same time, I've seen a mature deer get downwind of a scrape, smell that scrape or there's a group of does that a little buck is chasing and a bigger buck will see them and not respond to them. And it's because he knows they're not receptive yet.

But he'll know with a couple years of experience, he knows when the doe groups of that area become receptive. And that's like, when I think about the spot here down at home that I hunt sometimes, I know there's a window in the third-ish week of October that a doe becomes receptive. Because every single year I see a deer that is three and a half years older and that I haven't seen all year shows up. And he'll be here for about 24 to 72 hours.

Grant (23:17.816)

Right.

Mitchell Shirk (23:47.857)

And he's usually with a doe and it's for that very reason they they know when so they move I think a little bit more methodically and while obviously you can still see a good buck do some stupid I saw one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen get killed by a friend of mine last year. It was killed November 1st or 2nd and it was a cold snap and it was all those things you dream about and you'd expect and it was you know, 160 inch deer that still happens. Don't get me wrong. but

It does seem like from my cameras that after the 15th after that peak breeding it does seem like they get a little vulnerable and I've heard one person I've heard say that a lot and it's a person that I respect a lot as far as outdoor hunting and Personnel is Lee Likoski, know I've heard him say many times that if I'm gonna kill the deer I want to kill I'm either gonna kill him the first week of the season when it opens in October

Or I'm gonna kill him right around Thanksgiving or right before Thanksgiving.

Grant (24:49.57)

Yep. Yeah. No, I think I agree with that. think, you know, there's a lot of people that would agree with that. that's probably your best times to kill the biggest one in your area. You know, the true giant. it seems like, yeah, it seems like they're vulnerable. You know, if you can get them real early, you know, on a pattern still. And then I think...

I think there's a small window where they're pretty vulnerable, like in our area, the very end of October. Those last four days of October when they're probably looking for the first estrous dough. Or they're going, like you said, they're going to head to that area where from their historical knowledge, they know a dough is going come into heat in this area at this time. For you, you said you have an area like that.

That's like the third week of October. So that's near a little, a little before, you know, I think a lot of people would, would see it, but yeah, I think there's, there's certainly window there where they're vulnerable when just like that first doe is coming into estrus and then, and then like you said, and like, like you said, Lee Lekoski says right after the peak of the estrus where it's getting harder for them to find the next estrus doe and, and they know.

Mitchell Shirk (25:49.939)

That's right.

Grant (26:17.368)

They know it's coming to an end today. They're, you know, they're kind of desperately seeking that last or last couple of extra stows. So like you said, anything can happen. You can see one of those now too here kind of during the middle of it, but yeah, it's just, it's an interesting topic. It's the rut, the rut is, it's an interesting thing, man. That's for sure.

Mitchell Shirk (26:17.491)

It's like the last hurrah.

Mitchell Shirk (26:33.329)

Absolutely.

Mitchell Shirk (26:42.859)

I'm curious to your perspective from location. So you and I are both kind of in the southeastern part of Pennsylvania here and hunt different areas down here. And then I know that you travel up to northern Pennsylvania to hunt as well. And as do I, as I said, I'm doing this coming weekend. I have heard a theory that other hunters have shared with me that they feel that...

Grant (26:51.701)

Ruff.

Mitchell Shirk (27:06.929)

The Northern part of the state is a few days behind the Southern part of the state. So that way, if they see really, really good activity in one part in Southern state, maybe they'll go up to camp later the week and still have that same activity. I have zero experience in this. Is that something that you would say plausible or myth?

Grant (27:27.254)

I think it's plausible. I'm a little bit 50-50 on that theory, but I would say I'll lean a little bit more towards it's plausible because I have seen that to a certain degree. I think there's so many factors that can go into it, but I would say that, yes, I would say

Some of my best hunts that I can ever think of, farther south, were maybe just a few days before my best hunts I've ever had up north here. I think back to all my rut hunts and it's like, I would say up here in northern PA,

Some of the best days I can ever remember having are right in and around the 7th, 8th, 9th, even 10th to 12th. It seems like those are some of the best days. And down south farther, I would say my best days might be just a hair before that, historically. But...

It's tough, think it's weather dependent too, like we always say, just so many factors. So I'll say plausible to answer the question. I'll say plausible.

Mitchell Shirk (29:02.333)

Alright.

Mitchell Shirk (29:05.747)

Hey, fair enough, it makes sense to me. One question I had for you too, when you think about tactics and things that you take into the woods, one of the things I rarely hear people talking about is clashing antlers together or using calling sequences like blind calling. Is that something that you do? Are you taking antlers with you in the woods? I I typically always carry a grunt call. What are the things you like to take into woods in regards to communicating with deer?

Grant (29:34.508)

I don't take antlers with me. I don't rattle. Long time ago when I was real young, I might have rattled a time or two. But as of now, don't take antlers with me into the woods to rattle in these areas that we hunt here in Pennsylvania in the Northeast. I'm not saying it couldn't work, but for me, I just decide it's not worth taking antlers with me.

But I always have a brunt call and a doublet with me. Always. How often I will blind call, I guess just depends on how I'm feeling about the area, the setup, what kind of day it is, what the date is, all those things. If I see a shooter buck out of range, I will always, usually always make an effort.

to try to call him in if I think it's plausible to do so. think you always try to wait until that buck is as far upwind of you as he's gonna get because most of the time they're gonna try to circle downwind of you to figure out what the source of that sound was.

I think back like the times that I've had the most success calling in a deer that I have eyes on or calling in a buck that I have eyes on that's out of range is when they are directly upwind to me. You know, and the theory there is like they don't feel like getting the whole way downwind of you. That's when I've had the most success with that. like usually

If it's a buck that's out of range, that's one I want to shoot. Usually I'll run first. Usually that's what I'll do.

Grant (31:40.054)

I guess occasionally, that's probably what I'll start with and then I'll dobley if he doesn't respond to that, see what happens. I have not had a ton of success doing that. It has worked for me some calling in bucks. As far as blind calling,

I'll do it some, not often. Not often. I've had it work a time or two, but I would say for the most part, like my rut setups are intended to catch a buck that's going to travel through there and hopefully travel through in range without needing to be called in. if I'm sitting a funnel or a pinch point or the downwind side of a doe bedding area, just hoping that he creases that downwind side sent check.

those and you know hopefully I'm in a tree or in a spot that's gonna that's gonna put him in range of me anyways so I guess that's probably why I don't blind call a ton during the rut but maybe I should more who knows

Mitchell Shirk (32:39.389)

Right.

Mitchell Shirk (32:51.067)

Hi, you know, it's it's it's that's a conversation one person to the next could always Have a different experience a different exposure And I think when it comes to blind calling there's a little bit of Almost like when you're calling to turkeys, you got to take their temperature and you just got to find the right one in the mood like last year The buck that I killed I actually rattled in and that was a deer that I barely put the antlers together and he

Ran to the base of my tree and I killed him and I said I was like I was like I've never ever done that I did this on a whim just because I had the I literally before I left I saw my antlers my rattling antlers sitting there on a on a hook in my garage I'm like, I'm gonna try it tonight just because I want to and and and it worked and any other time that never works and you know What you just described is I don't take antlers. I don't blind call that much. That's been me almost all of my

Grant (33:37.037)

You

Yeah.

Mitchell Shirk (33:49.277)

deer hunting life for that exact reason. I haven't had a lot of success. So for whatever reason you did, that, I think that happens all the time. Let's talk a little bit about all day sits. I've heard a lot of people say that this time of year is the day you sit all day long. So from your perspective, is that a date based thing? Is that a weather based thing?

Grant (34:02.39)

yeah.

Mitchell Shirk (34:17.511)

Do you hunt all day, maybe switch stand locations? Maybe try to, if you've got any schemes going on in your head that you're going to try to play out for the next two weeks as archery season lasts, that you're looking as far as why I would sit in this stand all day versus not this one or something along those lines.

Grant (34:38.102)

Yeah, really good question. think it is date and probably even more so weather based. I think

from like here we are on the sixth for the next two weeks if the weather is right I would pretty much sit any set up you could think of all day that's just me I've just weather like I've had rut hunts where I'm excuse me I've had rut hunts where I'm even sitting a food source and done all day sits and just had killer movement midday funnels

down one side of Doe bedding areas, pretty much no matter what the setup, if it was me and the weather is right, the temps are either average or below average for that time of year, I'm sitting it all day in this region of the country here where we hunt in Pennsylvania in the Northeast. I couldn't tell you how many rut hunts I've had where the best part of the day was from 10 to two.

Like I almost, if the weather is cold, I probably have more confidence shooting a buck at noon than I do at first light this time of year. Honestly, I really do. see, I would say I see, see if the weather is cold, I probably see just as many bucks, if not more from 10 to two than I do first lighter or in the evening.

That's how much confidence I have in the midday during the rut, from pretty much this point moving forward for these next couple of weeks. If the weather's warm,

Grant (36:32.194)

You know, in my mind...

I'll still sit all day some of the time. You can still get midday movement. It's just probably a little bit less likely than what it would be if it were colder. if you're gonna have action midday on a warm or a hot rut hunt, it's probably gonna be a dough. It's probably gonna be an estrous dough or a dough that's just about to come into heat.

that is running away from a buck and the buck is right on, or like, you know, just a hot chase. That's probably what it's gonna be. And I've seen that happen. I think, yeah, you're probably less likely on the really warm days during midday to just see a buck out cruising on his own. I think from my experience.

Mitchell Shirk (37:11.29)

Absolutely.

Grant (37:33.646)

So that, yeah, that would be my perspective on it. Like kind of no matter what your setup is, in my opinion, if you're hunting in PA or in the Northeast, I think you gotta sit all day if the temps are either average or below average. I think you're just missing the best part of the day if you...

If you get down and switch stands, yeah, you can get down and maybe switch stands pretty quickly. If you're, if you're really feeling like, Hey, there's somewhere else I got to be. but you want to, you want to maximize your time in the tree, think, and, and be, be in a tree as many hours and minutes as you can during that middle part of the day, this time of year, no matter, no matter what setup you're, you're sitting. Like I said,

Mitchell Shirk (38:26.221)

Absolutely.

Mitchell Shirk (38:31.239)

Now, one of the things too, let's face it, all day sits are mentally taxing. They can really weigh on you because, you know, we're talking about deer showing up at any time and we're focusing on the best of the best times. But I've been in the woods many times during November and you think like, this is the rut, where in the world are all the, there's nothing here. And it's not like this spot is burned out. I've been to spots where

There's been deer on camera. I haven't been there all season. It has it's been untouched. This should be on fire. The wind is right. And it's just not working for me. That has happened. And I remember a couple of times there was one morning in particular I was hunting on one end of a mountain and it was like it was like void of deer. I don't think there was living creatures in that portion of the woods. But you went a couple hundred yards and half a mile.

to the east and another section of the mountain and I had friends that were over there like, man, there's deer everywhere. They're running. There's a buck over here. There's a buck over there. I don't know which way to turn. And you're like, what in the heck? I can't pay somebody to get a buck past me. So my question for you then is I'm sure you've seen situations like that. Do you find yourself doing crazy things where I'm just going to get down and go, go see if I can find deer this time of year. They've got to be hiding somewhere. So

Grant (39:28.229)

Yeah.

Mitchell Shirk (39:51.027)

Or do you say, I know I'm in a good spot. I know if I'm just patience, patience and persistence is going to kill deer. How do you view that? Because I don't think there's a right or wrong way in viewing that. I think it comes down to the personal antics of how you like to hunt. So like, what's your take when you get into those just mentally taxing times during the-

Grant (40:12.268)

Yeah, no, I know exactly what you're talking about. The rut can just be such a weird thing like that where it just, it gets so much hype, but you know, people gotta remember like it just, it can be completely dead like you said. Like you're gonna have, you know, if you hunt for a week, half the days might be completely dead or even more than half and you might get one or two that are just magical and on fire. But to answer your question, I'm the type of person where

more times than not, I'm gonna ride it out in a spot. If I know it's a spot I have confidence in, it's a spot I've had good hunts during the rut in years past, I'm usually gonna ride it out. And that can be so mentally challenging. Like if you're sitting there and it's dead for a day, two days in a row, you know, it can be so hard to just stick it out, but.

I've just had it happen so many times where if you stick it out, eventually you're in them. That's kind of my style. I'll use these next three days as an example. We got this temperature drop coming. It's going to be the seventh through the ninth here. I am picking my best funnel that I have the most confidence in.

This summer and early fall I had in this area, I've had five different bucks on trail camera that I would be thrilled to shoot. I'm picking my best funnel in that area and I am gonna sit it from daylight till dark for the next three days, no matter what. I don't care if I don't see a deer the whole first two days. I'm sitting there the third day, no matter what. The way I see it,

Mitchell Shirk (42:08.134)

me.

Grant (42:10.61)

If it's a good pinch point and a good funnel that you know has been good years past, it's like the more days in a row you sit it, the higher your chances get almost. It's not one of those things where you're worried about bumping deer, going in and out of the stand. You're hunting for a buck that's coming through that funnel for the first time.

Days are the first time all season really. So you're not you're not worried about how much pressure you're putting on that stand. You're just you're kind of playing the percentage game, you know, at least in my example here. So I'm yeah, I'm the type of guy that's gonna that's gonna grind it out in the same spot if I think it's gonna be a good one, you know, I'll sit it. I'll sit it several days in a row.

Mitchell Shirk (42:42.524)

Mm.

Mitchell Shirk (42:51.347)

All right.

Grant (43:08.334)

or however long it takes.

Mitchell Shirk (43:08.407)

Good deal. Yeah, sometimes it's sometimes that's the way it goes. Sometimes it is just a matter of being being patient. I am not a good run hunter. I'm just not. I don't have the patience to sit the way you're describing. I have not had a lot of good luck doing that. And I've said this before, when it gets into November and I haven't shot a buck, I usually get nervous because I don't really do well. don't I don't view the woods.

From that long range pinch point do that I i've always been the early mid season food and fine scrapes and I haven't capitalized on that because I haven't hunted so this is a challenging thing for me, so You know this might be repeating yourself with things we already talked about in this podcast But if you had to give one two, maybe three pieces of advice to somebody like me or somebody who's Not as experienced when it comes to the rut. What what are some of the the

The biggest things, biggest takeaways that you would give somebody going into the last two weeks of archery season.

Grant (44:15.65)

Yeah, I think...

Don't overthink it really is a broad piece of advice. Like we talked about earlier, sit your funnels, your pinch points and your downwind side of dobedding areas. Don't overthink it. think if you stick to those setups and you put hours in, be persistent and be patient.

in those spots That's that's really the two biggest pieces of advice. I think that I could give is You know don't overthink it. Just just hunt hunt those setups and then just put the time in you know, mentally mentally grind it out sit in the stand put the hours in and You know, hopefully hopefully you'll have some some good luck. I would say those are

Those are my two biggest pieces of advice really and don't, yeah, don't try not to get discouraged. Like you mentioned earlier, like you'll be talking to your friends that are hunting down the road and it's on fire. Like that's how it is this time of year. Like one guy's in them, the next guy's not. And the next day it could be the complete opposite. Like don't...

I don't want to say don't pay attention to reports, like in some ways you have to just block out what other guys are seeing from your mind because it can almost hurt you and get you more discouraged than it'll do helping you. So like I try to not even pay too much attention to like what other guys are seeing down the road and stuff like that. think...

Grant (46:16.994)

I think it's just something you gotta worry about yourself that time of year and just know that even if it's slow a day or two in a row, it could turn on a light switch that next day.

Mitchell Shirk (46:31.793)

I like it, makes sense. Well, with that in mind, I think that's a good point to put a pin in this conversation. We'll have to revisit this at some point because, hey, let's face it, the rut is happening. You are hunting hard. I'm pretty sure if I'm not mistaken, you're at camp as we speak, right?

Grant (46:47.52)

I am. Yep. Just got up here today. I was hunting the last five or six days down around home, a little bit in Maryland, a little bit in PA there around home. then with today being the warmest day of the week, I decided to use today as my afternoon to drive up here to camp. So I saw the temperature out coming and knew that I wanted to be in a tree starting tomorrow.

up here. yep, just got up here today and I'm gonna be gonna be here for the foreseeable future here for for a good part of, you know, good part of the rut here. So we'll see what happens. Should be fun. Next three days, especially.

Mitchell Shirk (47:34.951)

Yeah, fewer places I would rather be than that. said to, I'll leave it at this. So I was talking about having fun and the rut and deer hunting. And I've said it a couple of times that I've just, a little bit off with how I feel about deer hunting this year. And I've come to the conclusion, I was talking to this, about this with Aaron Hepler the other day. And I said, you know, I said my days of trying to squeak a hunt in close to home.

getting in the stand after work, you know, sitting for an hour and then doing this or, trying to squeeze a hunt in at this spot before work or, you know, whatever those days of squeaking hunts in are not as fun for me as they used to be. And I think it's just because of everything that goes on in my life now currently that it's, it, it's not as fun, but you know what I am looking forward to?

is everything we just talked about, about the deer hunting antics and tactics and everything else there. I'm looking forward to that in the setting where I'm going to go away for two days and I am not going to have cell service and I'm going to be with just me and my dad at camp in a place that's big and it's nostalgic and it's beautiful and I'm not going to hear highways and we're hear like...

I used to hear people talk about that and I just rolled my eyes because I was always looking for the biggest deer I could find and the biggest deer I could find were close to home and it was all those places to subscribe. It shifted for me. So now I'm chasing what is fun and that is what is fun. So that's what I'm really, really looking forward to.

Grant (49:00.844)

Yep, no, that's what it's all about. We can sit here all day and talk about strategy and big bucks and this and that. At the end of the day, people just got to remind themselves it's all about fun. It's not about shooting the biggest buck in the woods. It's not about punching your tag. Just get out there and enjoy it, whether it's on your own, with friends and family. Enjoy this time of year. Enjoy the rut.

Just have fun. That's all I can say.

Mitchell Shirk (49:32.305)

Yeah, if it ain't fun, you gotta change something.

Grant (49:36.258)

That's right. Yeah, that's right. no, sounds like you're going to have a lot of fun on that hunt coming up this weekend, and I know I'm going to,

Mitchell Shirk (49:46.737)

Yeah, YouTube for sure. keep me, keep me in the loop. How you do. I'll be anxious to see it. I know you're going to be posting stuff. I'm, I'm anxious to see more videos coming out, you know, real quick, anything, going on when it comes to the everyday outdoorsman, you know, guys, if you're not following and watching the everyday outdoorsman on YouTube or following them on social media, Instagram, Facebook, that sort of thing, please do give them, give them some love and follow them cause they put produce great contact and you know,

Content and the one thing I want to say too is your title the everyday outdoorsman I think it is the perfect title for what you guys do because it is so Relatable to people like me who work their tail off and love to go hunting and the content you produce is so Relatable and it's enjoyable to watch so please guys give that a follow if you haven't but hey anything any anything To add on that before we let you go

Grant (50:40.556)

Yeah, no, mean, thanks. Thanks for the kind words Mitchell, but no, that's about it. Yeah, we just Putting out videos on YouTube as you said, you know trying to get them out You know semi semi lifestyle. There's only so quickly that it's only so quick we can get them up but we do our best, know to to keep that content coming and then we're posting content on social media on Instagram and Facebook too with

posts and stories, so that's how you can kind of keep up with us, what we're doing from day to day in more of a live format. So yeah, definitely check us out if you haven't already and yeah, appreciate the support from anybody and appreciate the chance to be on the podcast here, Mitchell. Always enjoy coming on with you and yeah, no, think you do.

doing a great job with this too. So thanks for all of your work and yeah, like I said, thanks for having me on.

Mitchell Shirk (51:41.555)

Appreciate it and I always look forward to the next one. Thanks, buddy.

Grant (51:44.364)

Yeah, sounds good. Thanks a lot, Mitch.

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