On this episode of the Nine Finger Chronicles, Dan and the host of the Oklahoma Outdoors podcast, John Hudspeth, have a good old fashioned BS session about hunting rules and regulations. Both guys talk about the rules and regulation in their states and if they feel that they measure up to the best interest of the natural resource. As you listen to this keep in mind that these are the opinions of just two hunters.
Dan gets in to a great conversation about how rules and regulations can be influenced by non-resident interest groups who are more interested in making money than conserving the natural resource. This is where hunters need to step with a united voice and let outside interest groups know that they have no business interfering with another states natural resource, especially if they are not communicating with that states Department Of Natural Resources. This is an interesting conversation that is meant to spark thought and conversation about how hunting rules and regulations are managed in your home state. Be sure to share this video with you hunting friends.
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Woo. How we doing? I'm jacked up off coffee and I had a cinnamon roll, so there's some sugar in my system too. [00:01:00] So I'm feeling pretty fired up on this Friday morning. I I'm pretty happy, man. I'm in a, I'm in a really good mood and I am excited to launch this episode. I was gonna do something completely different, but this is what is on my mind right now.
And so I did a podcast about it. It's about hunting rules and regulations, and if you want to go. Check out the the YouTube channel. We have it up there as well, the Sportsman's Empire YouTube channel. We have the full interview there as well, the video version. And you guys can check that out if you like, go subscribe.
But here's what I've been thinking about lately. I've been thinking about a couple questions and a couple polls that I have taken in recently on Instagram and the outcome of those polls. And I know I have a very limited amount of people that answered that compared to a statewide study.[00:02:00]
I but it gives me an insight into the demo. My demographic, I would say the demographic who follows me in the Nine Finger Chronicles in the Empire. But it just had me thinking like there's a rule in place. For example, a majority of the people don't like this rule or don't like this regulation. Why is your, why does your state have it then?
And so it leads me to have these conversations with myself. And others about if the majority of people don't like something why is it the way it is? Especially when deer talking about deer hunting rules and regulations. Now, if it is strictly a management rule and regulation, meaning, Hey, we need this to keep deer numbers at bay, or we need this to to manage the natural resource in a specific way, a hundred percent get it.
But the example that I'll use here is that the a majority of people who answered the poll wished their [00:03:00] gun season was pushed out of the rut, meaning maybe the last week in November. Or even into December, similar to Iowa setup. And so what this leads me to believe is that rule and regulation, although it has probably been in it's been around in certain states forever, and there's a lot of people who like it.
If there's also a lot of people who don't like it, then I feel like they should have a voice too. The peop And there should be this communication between the people who are on one side of the fence and the people who are on the other side of the fence on a certain topic and communicate and say, Hey, what is best for the natural resource?
What is best for the deer herd? And what is best for us as a group to get more of what we want with the the outcome here of being, for example of this topic is, Hey man, all of our. Two and three year olds are getting smoked every gun season because it's right [00:04:00] in the middle of the rut. If we move that out, maybe a couple of these deer make it through.
And we have an older age class of bucks, which makes our state more desirable, which makes people happy because I'll tell you what there's a lot of people out there who bitch and complain about not having big bucks in their state, but if they shot a big buck, they would be very happy. And I don't know.
It's just, it's one of these things where we have to do less pointing fingers and more talking about some of these problems. All hunters unite under one voice and then communicate of what we like, what we don't like with the Department of Natural Resources and not let that it be influenced by certain politicians.
And that's what this whole conversation is about today. I'm gonna cut it off there and let you listen to the episode, the guest today. Is John Hud Smith of the Oklahoma Outdoors Podcast. He's also on the Sportsman's Empire Network. And we talk about if he's happy with the rules and regulations in Oklahoma, if I'm happy with the rules and [00:05:00] regulations in Iowa and how people are, how these rules and regulations change and who influences them, things like that.
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Great organization. Go read up fish and wildlife.org. And now we're done with the How I Make My Money. So I appreciate you guys. Go to iTunes, please leave a five star review. Go [00:09:00] and comment. Let's create a community on the Nine Finger Chronicles. And the the Nine Finger Chronicles and the Sportsman's Empire Instagram pages.
And let's communicate. Let's talk let's have conversations. Cuz ultimately that's what we want, right? We want to create a community and this big voice to let everybody know that, hey man, don't mess with us, hunter. There's that. Enjoy the episode and we'll talk to you next time. Two, one. All right.
All the way from Oklahoma on the phone with me today, Mr. John, HUD Smith. John, man, what's up?
[00:09:36] John Hudspeth: Not much, man. It's been b been pretty good. My wife and I, we've been doing Whole 30. Do you know what that is? So no, I don't. What's whole 30? It's one of those diet things where it's basically like meat, vegetables, and fruits.
No bread, no soda, no alcohol, anything like that. Okay. And I've known a lot of people who've done it and usually it's like people on Facebook and they're like, oh, day three, I feel so much better. Day four. And, I see all this improvement.[00:10:00] I'm on day 14 and like those people are, They're full of bullshit, man.
It's terrible. So
Yeah. That's funny. I still, oh yeah, I I'm not a coffee drinker. I normally drink Red Bull, which obviously is terrible for you. I know that and I was in Home Depot yesterday and I walked by like the Red Bull fridge and my mouth just like immediately started watering . Like all the cravings are still there.
Yeah. So that's how I'm doing. Welcome to the studio. That is,
[00:10:30] Dan Johnson: that, that is hilarious. That might have been I needed that laugh today because Yeah. And I've been through that before, man. I would say about two years. , I was just a slob. Like I didn't really work out too much. , I maybe a little over two years ago and I didn't really work out too much.
Didn't I was eating, I was that guy who would like, eat supper and then eat supper again, like , I would, I just was a slob man. Anyway. And so I started [00:11:00] doing like this high protein diet. I, it wasn't really anything specific, just eat, I was still eating carbs. I was eating less carbs, but way more protein and way more clean protein just straight chicken breasts or deer meat or whatever.
. Yep. And . And so when I started that, . Everybody's oh, this is so good for you, so good for you. All I wanted to do was crush blizzards from Dairy Queen. Man. I just had just like you and your Red Bull. , every time I would drive by a Dairy Queen or like a Culvers or some kind of ice cream shop, might, steering wheel, would just slowly start turning in that direction then.
Yep. Willpower. Willpower sucks, man. I don't have very much of it.
[00:11:38] John Hudspeth: Yeah. I have willpower. Willpower with a lot of things, but not food as you can see by my, pH physique here. . .
[00:11:47] Dan Johnson: Hey, at least you're on the right direction. Are you matching the diet or the new diet with. A workout routine at all?
[00:11:56] John Hudspeth: No I had every intention to try [00:12:00] to, but, so my wife is actually outta town right now. She works in youth ministry and this is spring break. And so she is on a spring break trip with youth group. And so I have our eighth month, eight month old baby all by myself this week. Oh. And no, that's a workout.
Oh yeah. Working a full-time job and taking care of the baby and trying to do some podcast. And so yeah, the, I feel the workout has not, the workout has not come yet. What
[00:12:23] Dan Johnson: Is she sleeping
[00:12:24] John Hudspeth: right now? She is. Yeah. Luckily she's been sleeping great. The time change actually worked in my favor cause I can put her down and she falls asleep really good.
And she's basically sleeping an extra hour because of that. What? She used to wake up and so that's actually turned out really well.
[00:12:40] Dan Johnson: So That's awesome, man. Hey, but you're a rancher, right? You were, you you're a rancher, a farmer.
[00:12:46] John Hudspeth: So I was, I actually left the ranch a little while back.
Now I work for a custom home builder. Oh,
[00:12:53] Dan Johnson: okay. I gotcha. Yep. And so are you out moving around all day long?
[00:12:58] John Hudspeth: I am not as much as when I was [00:13:00] ranching, not as much physical activity. When I left the ranch, I gained some weight pretty I guess I just didn't realize how physical I was out there.
Yeah. Yeah. And now like I'm, I'm outside a lot walking around, but I'm not like lifting stuff, I'm not working, I'm more of a manager. Yeah. And gotcha, gotcha. That's part of what led into the whole 30 thing. I realized I need to lose a little weight.
[00:13:19] Dan Johnson: So now after you've done this you made that transition away from the ranch.
Do you miss the ranch now?
[00:13:25] John Hudspeth: I do sometimes. Yeah. It was a mixture of, working a ton. Like I was basically working 12 on two off at the ranch. Cows gotta eat every day. Yep. And then my wife was a little sick of, living out in the middle of nowhere, and yeah. So we've moved a little bit closer to her family.
So I do miss it. It. . It's been a little different hunting wise cuz I I hunted on the ranch and yeah. I like I'd work and if I got off early enough I'd just go hunt. And so that, that was a little bit different this year but still got some hunting time in, so no complaints.
[00:13:54] Dan Johnson: Yeah. And that's a perfect transition into, originally I wanted to [00:14:00] get you on today and I wanted you to be part of the anything but deer hunting series that we've been talking about on the Nine Finger Chronicles podcast here. But a whole bunch of things have just happened over the last month and I just want to.
I just wanted someone to talk to about 'em, and you are the person who was on the schedule at this time. And so you are gonna be the person who gets to talk about it now. Perfect. Lately I've been posting a lot of questions on the Nine Finger Chronicles Instagram page about things like, are you happy with your state's rules and regulations are do would you be willing to move your gun season out of the rut basically in later into December in order to establish maybe a higher age class of bucks and things like that?
And it's pretty eyeopening. The results compared to what the actual rules and regulations are in a specific state. And I know that I'm guessing anyway somebody brought this up [00:15:00] that a lot of my followers are probably bow hunters first and then gun hunters second. So that might be like an influence of how people answered certain questions, but I wanna pass it to you.
Cuz do you hunt Oklahoma and Texas or just Oklahoma?
[00:15:19] John Hudspeth: I do. I hunt both. I have a buddy who has a big lease in West Texas that he basically gives me free reign. . And he actually prefers people rifle hunt instead of bow hunt. He tries to manage it pretty hardcore.
Not only does he prefer rifle hunt, but he prefers you to have a suppressor on your rifle to keep the noise down. A lot of it is about, wind and busting gear, with a rifle you can be further back. You're not right up there on the food plot or feeder or whatever.
So yeah, I, I do a decent amount of rifle hunting just cuz like I said, he prefers that. Oklahoma, I, I. I, I've, I do more rifle hunting now than I used to actually. I think part of that is because of the podcast I'm trying to relate to everybody in [00:16:00] the state. And yeah.
I used to be very hardcore bow hunter. Still am very hardcore bow hunter, but, when Muzz loader rolls around I'm not afraid to pick up the Muzz loader for a few days. When rifle rolls around, I'll pick up a rifle for a few days. So yes I would call myself a bow hunter, absolutely. But I do a decent amount of rifle hunting
[00:16:16] Dan Johnson: also.
Gotcha. All right. Let's let's talk about which, because your home state is Oklahoma, right? , I wanna talk about Oklahoma here for a second. And I'll share my thoughts on Iowa. Are you currently happy with the rules and regulations that Oklahoma has for its deer hunters?
[00:16:37] John Hudspeth: It's a little bit of a loaded question because Yeah I'm in a situation where I am pretty happy with it, but it's because I get to benefit from it more than most people. , just Why is that? Why is that? It's because the land we have and where we have it I don't have a lot of hunting pressure around me.
We're in a, we're in a cattle area, we're not really in a farming area. The closest farm. [00:17:00] A long ways away. Actually our, the county that we're in is one of the top cattle producing counties in the entire country. So we're in cattle country, but it just so happens that kinda right in our little pocket, we have a lot of timber and some draws and stuff that is fantastic.
Deer habitat also. So I'm in a little island. So I don't have to deal with a lot of pressure. But I will say if I had to take a temperature across the whole state, a lot of people are not as happy as I am. There's a, so we're a two bucks state. And you can actually, so you get two bucks total.
You can kill two with a bow. Or you can kill one with a bow, one with a gun, or you can actually kill one with a muzzle loader and one with a rifle. So you actually get two gun tags total. Okay. Now those seasons are very short. You have a one week muzzle loader and then you have a two week rifle.
Muzzle loader is pre-read, so it's the last week of October, and then rifle season comes in right at the end of the rut. So it's the last it's the, it always starts the Saturday before [00:18:00] Thanksgiving and runs into the first week of December. So the third and so
[00:18:04] Dan Johnson: the third week of November cor Correct.
Last week. Yeah.
[00:18:08] John Hudspeth: Yeah. And so a lot of people don't like that because the bucks are still running. Then that's when a lot of the bigger bucks are up on their feet, the ruts somewhat winding down. Those bigger bucks still have the energy to get out there. Again, me and my little island, I kinda love it because I usually self-imposed, I usually save one tag for archery.
If I kill one with a muzzle loader, I'm probably not gonna kill one with a rifle. Vice versa. And a lot of times maybe I've tagged a buck with my bow by then and I'll, hunt with a rifle. Or if I haven't, I'm gonna hunt with a rifle, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna only shoot a buck if it's, big mature and I'm gonna save my bow tag for another buck.
Yeah, so again, a loaded question cuz I, I don't mind it because of my little situation, but across the state, there's a very big push because everybody looks at the Midwest and they see one buck states and they think that's what they need. But I don't know. I actually had[00:19:00] the the head of the d what do we call ours, Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation on a few months ago, and asked him about some of these regulations and He, he almost rolled his eyes at the idea of making it a one buck state.
Because, according to their research, he said, it's not gonna help that much. He said, I think he said less than 10% of people ever kill more than two bucks in this state. Most people don't kill one. No I heard a good argument against that. Sorry, I'm rambling. I'm all over the place, but No, go for it.
I heard a good ar I, I heard a good argument against that just a few weeks ago of, yes, people may only kill one buck, but because they have that second tag, they are, they're probably more willing to shoot a buck with that first tag that they wouldn't shoot if they only had one tag, if that makes sense.
[00:19:45] Dan Johnson: So they're going out and they're saying because I have two buck tags , I can shoot, I, I can shoot a small buck. or a young buck, and then I'll hold out until I get, get a larger animal. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All [00:20:00] right. Now, a while ago, you like, do you remember was it two years ago or something?
How long has the Oklahoma podcast been on the network? Yeah. A little over two years. Okay. A little over two years. And so when we first started communicating, and we, dude, the hype the state you wanted to be in a couple years ago, right up there with Iowa was Oklahoma.
And dude, I think for one a couple years, the most 200 inch deer coming out of any state, it was Oklahoma and you. , you were frustrated that Oklahoma was getting that type of attention. Why ?
[00:20:37] John Hudspeth: Just like I, I, Iowa has a little bit of advantage because y'all already have kind of the limited out-of-state hunters in place.
And so yeah y'all are already set up to protect yourselves, but Oklahoma's not it's go to Walmart, buy your tag and not, when you're, if you're an out-of-state hunter coming to Oklahoma, you go to Walmart, you pay $300 and they hand you six tags, you get two buck tags and four dough tags, or you can use [00:21:00] all six on dos.
And yeah, part of me was a little bit selfish in the fact that just yeah, the word was getting out. U usually, let's say somebody's gonna come to Oklahoma for five days, a r vacation or a long weekend or whatever, if they're coming public land for a few days, they're probably not gonna be very picky on what they're shooting.
And if they can shoot that many deer you're just asking for trouble. If you're trying to grow quality deer, you can go to Walmart and, pay 300 bucks and you get six deer tags two buck tags, four dough tags, or you can shoot all six doughs. And yeah, part of it was just selfishness.
Yeah. It's it's just really easy for out-of-state hunters to come here and, if you're, if you're an out-of-state or coming here, let's say you got five days to hunt or whatever, a rut vacation or a long weekend or whatever, you have all these deer tags, you're probably not gonna be super picky with, what you're gonna shoot.
. Now we, we have a large deer herd. Dough is a big thing, they keep upping the amount of dough tags they give us because we need to [00:22:00] kill doughs. But it's just still in the culture here. Nobody shoots doze. And they can give out all the tags they want, but if nobody's shooting them, it doesn't matter how many tags they give.
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, lots of opportunities here. So it's, good and bad depending on the situation you're in.
[00:22:15] Dan Johnson: Yeah. And so I can come down to Oklahoma cuz my goal I know I talked to you this about last year, it never happened, but if I draw Nebraska, or excuse me, if I draw Kansas this year, where I'll be hunting is probably only an hour from the Oklahoma border.
So I'm thinking while I'm down there, I might as well make it a d a whole thing and try to hunt Kansas and Oklahoma in this one big trip. . And it, again, it's easy for me to calm down. Now I can use any weapon I want as long as it's within the dates. Is Oklahoma Crossbo state.
[00:22:48] John Hudspeth: across both state. There's one little caveat on the weapons, which I kinda like, and I think a lot of people do. So if you're a non-resident, you have to buy one license per weapon, so Okay. So if [00:23:00] it's muzzle loader season, you can still use your bow, but if you want to also muzzle loader hunt, you have to buy another $300 license.
So that is one thing that I think they do well because, there's a lot of people from outta state who own land here, but even if they own land, they have to buy all those different licenses. So it's just a way that the state gets a little extra bonus. So that's one thing that I think they do well.
[00:23:21] Dan Johnson: When you talk with Outdoorsmen from Oklahoma all the time. In your state specifically, what are some of the biggest complaints that you hear from other hunters?
[00:23:32] John Hudspeth: People not shooting doughs is actually a big one. People who ha have private land and are trying to manage for bigger bucks and, they fill all their dough tags and they still have just as many doughs cuz their neighbor, isn't shooting any.
That's a big one. , the whole two buck thing, man. It's split down the middle. Like I said, me personally, I love it. Me on my little island, I have plenty of mature deer. I think this was my fourth year in a row to fill both my buck tags and the, I killed [00:24:00] one four year old.
The rest were all five to eight years old. A very mature deer. And there's a lot of people like me that are in that situation. Maybe they have a bunch of a private land to hunt that it's awesome cuz you get to hunt more. But there's a lot of people who maybe have smaller chunks or maybe they're in a area where they get a lot more pressure that would love to see Oklahoma as a one buck state.
Yeah, tho those are probably the two big ones. There's definitely some people that would like to see that rifle. He pushed back a little bit. To, to me, I think if you're trying to grow mature bucks and you're worried that gun hunters are taking 'em out, I personally think it would be more beneficial to adjust the muzzle loader season than the rifle season.
Because typically by that last weekend that last weekend of October when muzzle loaders still open, you're usually having some pretty good ru activity if the weather cooperates and if it gets cold. I've seen and killed a lot of big bucks that last weekend of October.
And, you're getting pre rut. So those [00:25:00] big mature bucks, they haven't had a chance to do any breeding yet. They're not passing on those jeans my personal opinion, if you were really concerned about big bucks and wanted to change against season, I would maybe move that muzzle loader up a week.
[00:25:13] Dan Johnson: I wish there was a poll that was taken that whenever someone would go hunting what is your objective? Like for me and you, our objective every year is to try to harvest a mature buck, right? Try to kill a something with higher age class, big antlers. That's our goal. And then our second objective, I don't know about what it is for you, would be to get some meat in the freezer for the family.
And usually, I'm not saying every year this happens, cuz this year it didn't happen. But usually if I shoot a big enough buck, I have a lot of meat in my freezer because my family isn't a family of so like soul deer meat. So I can typically accomplish my objectives of getting a big buck. and filling my [00:26:00] freezer for the year.
Now if I wanna make jerky or something like that, then I'd have to probably get a dough. But I can accomplish those things relatively easy. And so some people probably don't have the same objectives as us. I w the . It'd be interesting to see what a state's objective is and what the percentage of people like, Hey, I live in Iowa, I wanna shoot big bucks.
I, I live in Iowa, but I only am interested in meat hunting. Or I am interested in only shooting dough, or, I'm, I'm only interested in turkeys or whatever their main objective is. And I think, I just think that kind of information would be helpful on having the proper rules and regulations, not only for the deer herd itself, but for the people who, who buy the tags in that particular state.
. Yeah. Now when it comes, oh go ahead. Go ahead. .
[00:26:51] John Hudspeth: Oh I was gonna, I got a question for you if if that's all right. , I also wanna give you a chance to rant on your own state a little bit, so maybe this will feed into that. But like the argument that I [00:27:00] keep talking about, and a lot of people talk about is, if you wanna grow big bucks, it's gotta be a one buck state, gotta be a one bucks state.
That's almost across the board. People say that and everybody looks to Iowa, as it's the big buck capital and everybody wants to go hunt Iowa. But correct me if I'm wrong, technically, Iowa is not a one buck state, right? In, in their situation where you can kill like three bucks.
[00:27:21] Dan Johnson: Yes. Okay. So here's how Iowa lays out. I can get my archery tag as a resident. I can get my archery tag, and I can get a firearm tag. Now, this firearm tag is one of the muzzle loader seasons, or a shotgun tag. So I can get early muzzle loader, which then I can't get another buck tag for anything. I can get late muzzle loader.
Which is the season that most people, it's the late season tag that a lot of people are interested in. And you can use muzzle loader, you can use they call it a primitive weapons tag. So they in a primitive weapon, it includes muzzle, hooter, archery [00:28:00] equipment, crossbows, those weapons.
And so you, so that there, I can get one firearm or late season tag, right? And then I can get one archery tag as resident so I can technically kill two bucks to antler deer in the course of a year. Now, if I'm a landowner is someone with four acres or more. According to the Iowa rules and regulations, , I can kill a third buck.
I can get a an additional, any sex tag for being a landowner. . So if you own land, if you bow hunt and muzzle loader or shotgun hunt, you can kill three bucks in a given year. Now what the, from my experience, and this is just my experience, there's very little, just like you were saying about the number of people who actually fill both butt tags.
There are very few people in Iowa who fill, [00:29:00] especially landowners who fill all of those tags. Now we have to remember, and I'm sure a state like Oklahoma and a state like Iowa are similar from the priority. and it's changing in Iowa to the, in the southern part of the state where the mecca of deer hunting really is.
Anything north of Interstate 80 is not as coveted. Now, there's still some decent deer hunting north of Interstate 80, but the Mecca, the Iowa, that everybody knows is south of Interstate 80 in I don't know, I'd say six or seven counties across the bottom of the map now, and along the Mississippi River you can find them too.
So there's giant, I mean there's, don't get me wrong, there's big deer, but the coveted spots are the, are south of the Interstate 80 there. And so finishing up the statement here is I think very few people, because Iowa and Oklahoma are still agriculture focused states [00:30:00] at this time, the landowners aren't using, aren't necessarily using.
Those tags to fill, they probably have other people on their properties or they lease out their properties or there's an outfitter on their properties. And I would say that I'm like, for me, I'm really happy with the current rules and regulations in the state of Iowa. One thing though, that, okay.
And so this is where, you've talked a little bit about Oklahoma and where the change and I'm gonna come back. I'm gonna ask you a question, then I'm gonna come back to Iowa. But you've mentioned a couple things that you'd like to see maybe change, maybe Oklahoma become a one buck state, or, the way I would look at it would be that maybe the non-resident.
Maybe keep the residents happy, but change the non-resident tag [00:31:00] 2 0 1 buck tag. And so the nonresident can still come in over the counter and take advantage of Oklahoma, give 'em as many go tags as they want, but only limit them to one, the non-resident to one tag. And so you're keeping the residents happy, but you're, and you're still giving the, you're still giving the non-resident opportunity to hunt.
[00:31:23] John Hudspeth: , you read my mind . Yeah. Yeah. You read my mind. That's when I was, when I had that that episode with the commissioner, I had a, yeah, I got more responses on that episode than I ever had before, and that was probably the number one thing I got was, yes. Let's let residents still have two.
Let's let don residents have one. Yeah. Yeah I think that would make a lot of people happy. And, you still get the tourism and, the out-of-state dollars and all that good. Yeah, but you're still also keeping it special for the
[00:31:50] Dan Johnson: residents. Exactly. Exactly. And cuz ultimately, man, like I understand a non-resident having a say for some [00:32:00] part in the rules and regulations.
If they wanna come to our state and they wanna, whatever, or whatever state they're gonna go be a non-resident hunter in, first and foremost they have to abide by the current rules and regulations of this state, but don't complain about it. Don't say, like I see that being a benefit for the state of Oklahoma.
If you were to drop a non-resident tag off one of those tags, off the non-residents option. I look at something like that, but a lot of it has to come down to what does the research and the data show? Does the research and the data show that, we need to reduce that or we should reduce that?
Or is there a complaint by the residents, enough complaint by the residents of the state of Oklahoma to warrant such a move? And this is where the next question I have for you comes into play, and that is, do you feel like in your state that you and a, you and other hunters have a [00:33:00] voice that is actually being listened to by the Department of Wildlife?
[00:33:05] John Hudspeth: That's a great question. , part of me says that the fact that I'm having to think about this so hard says no . But I do feel like all of our wildlife. Employees and people are hunters and stuff. I know they get out there they have a bunch of outreach programs and so I definitely do think they're taking people's concerns into consideration.
And but on the flip side of that, part of their job is not necessarily tying an emotional side to it, but trying to exactly. Bring in the scientific side. They're gathering the research, they're gathering the harvest data. And so yeah that, that's a great question that I don't have a good answer for.
Yeah. But I guess I'll have to
[00:33:43] Dan Johnson: that they do. Yeah, absolutely. Obviously the, with the goal and I would assume right? And I don't think, I don't think this is the case. And in a lot of states the I'm assuming that all of the decisions that are being made at at a rules and [00:34:00] regulation level are in 100% benefit of the natural resource.
So if it's a rule and regulation about Turkey hunting, the best interest is the Turkey, the wild Turkey. , or the rules and regulations for deer season. That the best interest is in the deer herd, the natural resource. And so when you start making decisions outside of that that box I'll, I guess I'll put it, that box, then it's becoming more, it's almost treating the natural resource as a commodity, like cattle and less like the natural resource that needs to be really managed in a very specific way.
Yeah. And so that kind of leads me to where I'm getting at, and this is where I'm struggling right now in Iowa. And so there's a lot of rules and regulations that are being proposed through. Or through politicians here in Iowa. And and I don't, I'm just gonna cover this one right now, it's [00:35:00] the crossbow and I, and we've had a big crossbo debate on social media.
Over the last couple weeks. We've I actually went to the Iowa Deer Classic and talked with a lot of people about rules and regulations for Iowa. And the big one is crossbows, right? So if the residents of Iowa said, you know what, we want a crossbow season. We want to be able to enjoy crossbows, I would be more apt to hearing a conversation about crossbows being implemented into Iowa during the archery season.
But here's the truth, there is a company out of New York. That owns a crossbo company and owns an airboat company. And so they did the math and they said that if we can get this bill passed in Iowa, the we stand to make X number of dollars. So they hired [00:36:00] lobbyists for very large amounts of money in the state of Iowa to lobby other politicians in our state to pass this law.
And or to get this law passed. And so there's a couple senators or p politicians out there who are taking this money to, say, Hey, I'll help pass this bill. And they have no business doing that, right? They're not hunters, they're not communicating with the Department of Natural Resources at all about this.
And so the issue then comes is we have this outside influence. Trying to tell us what to do in our state. And that just severely pisses me off. Because if I said to you, John, Hey John, this is these are the rules and regulations as a non-resident or as someone who may or may not even hunt, or, I'm a business owner and I'm just gonna pump some money into your system to try to get certain rules and regulations passed in your state, that benefit only [00:37:00] me.
I feel like you would have a problem with that .
[00:37:04] John Hudspeth: Oh yeah. It's funny you bring that up actually, because I just had a listener a few days ago send me that. Apparently there's a bill in Oklahoma right now about AirBoss and that's the same thing.
[00:37:15] Dan Johnson: That's the same thing
[00:37:16] John Hudspeth: in Iowa. Yeah. And in the article I read, I don't know if it's, same company, different, but a, apparently in the article I read, the airboat company was against it.
Like the company, this company said no, we do not think these should be used in archery season. But yet there's somebody pushing for them to be legal in archery season. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's,
[00:37:38] Dan Johnson: yeah it's frustrating. And so that's where I'm frustrated at for that's the big one.
That's the big reason. And why I have a problem with crossbows. It's not that I actually have a problem with crossbows because Iowa, actually you can hunt in Iowa now. There's some stipulations. You can use a crossbow in the late season during the late muzzle loader season. So we do [00:38:00] have a crossbow season youth.
Elderly? Some, I guess it's, I wouldn't the term elderly makes me think of some of 'em really old, but I think it's 60 or 65. I think it's 65. Then you can legally use a Crossbo, Iowa or . If you have a doctor's excuse like , I can't pull back a bow because of my shoulder, or I'm missing a, an arm or a hand or something that will actually prevent me from drawing a bow back.
, then you can use a crossbo with a doctor's note and again, just saying, beating the dead horse here, but like the people of Iowa do not want this. We're not knocking down our, the doors to our politicians saying we want CrossBoss. It's somebody else from somebody. Some other.
That is, is wanting this done. And I don't know about you, but I don't like that .
[00:38:47] John Hudspeth: Yeah, I, I've heard all the arguments on the crossbows and stuff and Yes, I agree. In the right situation. I think they're great. I, one of my best friends growing up, his brother was born with kind of a disformed hand.
He had a note [00:39:00] to use a crossbow before it was legal. He had a doctor's note. Kids. I think it's fantastic. Older folks. Yes. Fantastic. Yeah. I don't know. I'm torn just like everybody, yeah. The idea of having more people out there, celebrating our sport. Yes. That's, on the surface that sounds fantastic.
Could those people just try a little harder to use regular bow probably yeah. Or, yes. Make it to where it's not the entire archery season, that's also a good deal. I don't know I go back and forth all the time on the
[00:39:28] Dan Johnson: And that's a personal opinion of ours.
, and so . So for me, I love bug hunting. And then so when I post these questions on Instagram, the, it's o the comeback is, oh, so is compound is a compound bow. a bow compared to a traditional bow and yes it is because you have to draw it back, right?
, a cross bow, you don't have to draw it back. Yeah. You can cock it like a gun. Put it to your shoulder. It's a deadlier weapon. Like I'm, I know a lot of that has to do with whose hands it's actually in and if those people [00:40:00] practice and so whatever, I'll, so that's my big gripe anyway.
[00:40:05] John Hudspeth: I was gonna say, I can tell you one more crossbo thing that'd make you even angrier. So my buddy that I talked about in West Texas, he bought a crossbow this year. Cuz again, most of his stuff is set up for rifle hunters. He takes like business clients and clients', kids and stuff. Yep. So he went out this year and he bought like the who's who of Crossbo.
And I'll leave the brand out. But anyway, not only is it. This crazy souped up crossbow, but on top of it, it has a range finding scope and the scope. I'm like, I'm not talking about you push a button and it tells you how far it is. I'm saying you push a button and adjust the crosshair for that distance to tell.
So all you do is put that on the deer and so yeah. When it comes to that and it shoots the deer
[00:40:49] Dan Johnson: for you basically. And it cleans it, ands it, and it drags it to your
[00:40:53] John Hudspeth: truck. . Yeah. Just about. So that's nuts, man. Yeah. Yeah. That's nuts.
[00:40:58] Dan Johnson: And what I'm getting at here [00:41:00] is, and I want to give another example here.
. All right. So there's a couple other rules and regulations in Iowa that I'm against. And what this does is it, whenever you say you're against something, there's gonna be a, another group of people who. They they just go this guy's a prick. He doesn't want exclusivity or he doesn't want people to actually be able, that was the wrong word.
He doesn't want people to come and hunt his state and do this. But I do, I'd love the current setup here at the state of Iowa. I don't want anything to change. There's some other rules and regulations that I, maybe I would change if I was in charge, but, I don't care. I'm, they don't affect me.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna worry about those. But the one other big one in Iowa that will have a there's, it's two of 'em that are connected. One of 'em is non-resident tags. They wanna up that again, they wanna , I think they wanna add an additional like 1500 tags. So it's gonna jump [00:42:00] from 6,000 tags or something like that to fif to 75.
Hundred tags. And so then they want a per certain portion of those allocated to outfitters, right? Man, I just, I'm not a fan of how the whole allocating tags to outfitter thing works. Do I have a problem with outfitters? No. Because there's a demand for 'em. And but I don't, I do not feel that they should automatically get tags.
The non-resident should get the tag and then decide whether or not they want to use an outfitter, right? Yeah.
[00:42:31] John Hudspeth: It's not, I actually didn't, I actually didn't know that was a thing and I thought you had to draw the tag and then hire the outfitter.
[00:42:38] Dan Johnson: Oh, yeah, you can. Yep. That's a proposed bill, so as of right now.
Oh, gotcha. Have, get the tag, then you have to go to the outfitter, not the outfitter, going, Hey, we got non-resident tags for sale and , then those would be jacked up in price. Yeah. The other one is landowners being able to transfer or sell [00:43:00] their landowner's, tags to whoever they want.
Again, increasing the number of tags that are here in Iowa, and then the one that I feel has the biggest impact on the state right now. A landowner, a non-resident landowner, so someone who just owns land and state but does not live here as it's primary reside. Still has to go through the draw system in our state and still has to go into the lot, like the preference points.
And whatever state or unit you're in, you have to do this. Now, a lot of people, this is where a lot of the people that listen to the Nine Finger Chronicles podcast, they're not from Iowa. So they hear this and some people go that's not right. And I'm sorry, but the reason Iowa is the number one coveted state, and the, that tag is the number one coveted state.
Like tag in, in the entire country is because of the management that we've done up until this point on a state that has [00:44:00] little to no public land. It has little to no cover compared to Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and all the other surrounding states. It's very limited cover. Most of that cover is to the south of Interstate 80, which is why we have this mecca, the rules and regulations keep it, keep that at the quality of our bucks.
There are deer herd in check for the most part. And so then if we open up. This non-resident landowner to come. What's gonna happen is, again, the price of land will go up because non-resident landowners are gonna be like, dude, I can go hunt Iowa every year now, buy me land in Iowa, and they'll come. And what usually happens is they displace local hunters.
Local hunters don't have anywhere to go because again access to the ground is hard because we're less than 2%. We're less than 2% of the state is public ground. And so then we have a flood of public land hunters [00:45:00] because there's the dis this displacement, thus making the public land for hunting.
In Iowa, very competitive on top of all the non-resident tags that they're, non-residents coming in and hunting the public during that, which I'm okay with, but it's just that this, there's this displacement and it just makes it harder for the actual resident to enjoy what we actually are here all year round for, like we pay, I know they pay property taxes, but I live here, I support the communities all year round.
I buy gas in this state all year round. I go to the grocery stores in this state all year round, not just one week. A year, okay? . And so take that however you want it. That's just my personal opinion and that might get me hated on, but it is what it is. Look at what happened in Illinois in the nineties.
like Western Illinois in the nineties. You talk to any resident there, and when they felt the boom of the, like the [00:46:00] big buck boom and Pike County, just imagine if you were a resident and you lived in Pike County, county, Illinois, and all these outfitters came in and all these, the leasing system put into play and all these non-resident landowners started coming in and you got displaced.
Like you had to drive to a completely different county to hunt. Like I just, I have a feeling that is like a lot of residents were pissed that happened. . And so Iowa has the ability to prevent that, still keeping Iowa the best state in the country and then allowing people to come in at a, at whatever, three years, four years, some cases, five years to draw a tag.
Certain other states or every oth or other parts of the state or every other . And so it just depends on what you wanna do. And then for a non-resident landowner to come in and go, Hey, that's unfair to us. Why did you buy land in this state anyway? , you're gonna buy land in this state, then you're gonna say it's unfair.
You should have never bought land in this state to begin with. , if [00:47:00] that's the, if that's the issue for you. So it's just what we seeing everywhere else, people are leaving California because the rules and regulations in just life, suck in California and New York. They're moving to other places and then trying to implement the same political system in those states, and it's driving the residents of that state crazy because they don't wanna see that kind of change.
. And I don't know I could go on forever about certain things like that, but The whole point of this conversation though, is there is a silver lining to the cloud. And after going to the, after rallying the troops at the Iowa Deer Classic, after working with the Iowa Bow Hunters Association and getting the word out about these crazy bills that are coming into our state it really does make me a believer that if we united as if the hunters of Oklahoma United, [00:48:00] and we said to the politicians and we said to the Department of Natural Resources, here is what we would like to see.
And actually have open communication with them about certain rules and regulations, whatever state you live in. If, because one of the, one of the questions that I put in a on the was would you want. There was two questions. One was, do you, would you want your dear your firearm season pushed into December outside of the rut?
And I think it was like 75 to 25. 75% of people said yes. 25% of people said no. And so the last time I checked, we were in a democracy, right? If more people wanted a certain thing, then we should probably try to work on that, right? . And so it's unfortunate for the minority because of that.
But what are you gonna do? The whole point of this conversation though, is that if we band together and come with a united voice of [00:49:00] thousands of people, and we say to these politicians no, we don't want this. And we go to the D N R and say, Hey, we would like to see this happen. What would the impact be?
Because we can't go into the Department of National Resources and say, there's a, there's 10,000 of us who want this. Make it happen. Because that's the wrong way to look at it. The wrong, the right way to look at it is there's 10,000 of us who want this to happen. What would be the impact on the natural resource if this rule goes through?
And so I feel like people still have the power to do that, to, to make these changes. And all we have to do is unite work together and just let everybody know that, the outdoorsmen and the hunters in this state we don't wanna be messed with, right? And keep all the politics out of the natural resource world and just manage the Nat Natural resource.
And we will be the say of if we like, we, if we like it or not, [00:50:00] I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? I took a couple whole bunch of time. .
[00:50:03] John Hudspeth: No, I was gonna say amen. No, I love it. No, I, the whole time I was thinking I got two quick things for you. If I, let's say I moved to Iowa tomorrow, this is for your Iowa people and yourself.
Yeah. If I moved to Iowa tomorrow, there's probably two things I would say. One, if you really want to protect your deer herd and everything like that, I think the, of all the things you just mentioned, I think the biggest one is the out-of-state landowners, not letting out-of-state landowners have automatic tags.
Because I can promise you if that were to pass, half of Texas would be up there tomorrow buying land and half, and, all those tags people like myself and all over. So I think out of all the things you mentioned, I think that's probably the biggest one in protecting yourselves. Yeah. And two this is like an outsider's end.
So I have never hunted Iowa. I actually hope to be there this fall. I bought my first Iowa point in, I believe, 2016 [00:51:00] and still have not got to hunt it yet. No. I haven't actually applied yet, but so I, I got one point the next year I forgot, so I missed a year, and then I put in every year since, so I have five points, which took me six years to get, and then this is my seventh year.
I'm actually going to apply to try to get the tag. So just for you and, all you Iowans, a little bit of relief. Like it's, it really is difficult to get one of these tags, and I'm not saying y'all should bump, and let more out-of-state people win, but I think even if you did, I don't think that would be the end of the world, I don't know. I don't know how many out-of-state people come and hunt Oklahoma and Texas, but I can. Probably promise you it's over 6,000, yeah. And we still have a lot of really great deer. So that's meant to be an encourage you guys obviously I know y'all probably like to keep it limited.
But yeah. But like I said, as an outsider in I am looking forward to hunting to Iowa so much, and I think I listening to you and other people from Iowa, like I have realistic goals. Like when I go to [00:52:00] Iowa, I'm going knowing that there's a good chance I will not kill the biggest buck of my entire life just because I'm hunting in Iowa.
Just, I'm not gonna go there and just all of a sudden the two 20 is gonna show up on public land or anywhere I get from, I know that, right? For me, going to Iowa and experiencing, an Iowa hunt, I'm excited to see that crazy rut. Yeah, ado goes by and there's seven bucks chasing after her, and there's just deer running everywhere.
That's why I want to go hunt Iowa. I want to have that just crazy rut experience where you have just deer everywhere, big bucks running around. Hopefully I'll kill one. But I, and I think for people listening, a lot of people need to realize that. Cause I think just talking to people and listening to other podcasts, I think a lot of people think oh, I'm gonna go to Iowa.
And kill the biggest buck in my entire life. And maybe you come from a state where, a one 40 is gonna be the biggest buck of your entire life. And I think that's very doable in Iowa, . Excuse me. But if you're a hardcore hunter and you have some [00:53:00] decent spots to hunt, go for the experience.
Don't necessarily go thanking, you're gonna tag state record.
[00:53:06] Dan Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. That, that's all about setting expectations for yourself. And just to, to reiterate here to anybody who's listening that I feel, if you have a problem, there's other people out there who have the same problem. And especially when it comes to the hunting rules and regulations in your state, I really feel that if Hunters united in.
In whatever state that you live in, if you united and you worked together. Because a lot of times I feel like the outdoorsmen ha has been dismissed so many times by the government or by whatever organization they've just said, eh, it's not worth voicing my opinion anymore. And so you've decided to voice your opinion, not voice your opinion.
And then the rules [00:54:00] and regulations get passed. , and then you're even more unhappy with the state of your natural resource, whatever natural resource that is. And so the time to get the change, and even, even for someone let's just say 99% of Iowa are, or 99% of people in a given state don't like a rule and regulation.
I feel that even though there's a rule and regulation passed, And that majority of the people don't. If you worked together, if you united and if you communicated properly those rules and regulations will definitely be changed because politicians they want to be in a job, they want to be a politician.
And if you tell them, Hey man if you don't support this, I have x number of people over here who will not vote for you again next year. And as far as the natural resources is concerned, I still think the outdoorsmen in any given state have the power [00:55:00] to rise up and communicate with the Department of Natural Resources and the politicians and say, we're not gonna take this shit anymore.
, and we wanna see some different rules and regulations. So don't give up is what I'm trying to get at. . Yeah. Yeah. I hope that makes sense. , I know I did , I know I got heated there and did a lot of it talking towards the end. Good. What's the the overall state of Oklahoma, let's just say the, over the overall field, the o overall vibe.
Would you say that the residents in your state are happy with the current rules and regulations?
[00:55:36] John Hudspeth: I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think out of all of 'em, I think the one one tag for Outof staters would probably be an awesome change. But I think overall people are pretty.
[00:55:47] Dan Johnson: Gotcha. Absolutely. Absolutely. Man, I really appreciate you taking time outta your day to hop on and bs with me a little bit about this. We, whenever I have a podcast like this, it is it, they're [00:56:00] usually based off of an emotion, right? Something that's making me mad or making me happy or frustrating me.
And I don't feel that rules and regulations should be made based off of emotions, right? I think it needs to be science, right? Everything that every decision about a natural resource needs to be science based, needs to be studied, it needs to be like that's how proper management is done through science.
If you ask me and sometimes. Based off of, let's just say weather or drought or disease or something like that. Those rules and regulations will need to be micromanaged a little bit based off of that. , but for the most part, let science and data do the talking and then the emotion can come after that.
So , I don't know, that's just the way I feel about that. But but again, John, man, I really do appreciate your time, man.
[00:56:49] John Hudspeth: Absolutely, man. I enjoyed it. Yeah I love this stuff.
[00:56:52] Dan Johnson: And there you have it, another episode in the books. Huge shout out to John. I know I, I took up a lot of the time and I want to get him back on [00:57:00] again.
But once I get rocking and rolling on something that I'm really passionate about, it's , it becomes the Dan Johnson show. And I do apologize about that. So anyway. Thank you very much. Please go out and voice your opinions. Let everybody know what you feel. Gather with like-minded individuals, and then take those tho that voice to the Department of Natural Resources, to the the politicians in your area and let 'em know, Hey, man, don't mess with our wildlife.
Let's manage. But let's not mess with it. And there's a lot of people out there who do not have the natural resources, best interest in mind, just dollar amounts. And that's where we need to step in and we need to have this voice and let everybody know, Uhuh, don't tread on me, type of type of a speech.
Huge shout out to John. Huge shout out to all of you for taking time outta your day to listen. Huge. Shout out to Tethered Wasp, HuntStand and Vortex, and then also go to iTunes, [00:58:00] leave a five star review. Let everybody know how awesome the Nine Finger Chronicles podcast is, and also let everybody know about the Sportsman's Empire and let them know how badass that network is as well.
Thank you. Good vibes in. Good vibes out. If you're gonna be in a tree, wear your damn safety harness. Have a good weekend.