Missouri Woods & Water - Spring BS Session - Micah Brings The Hard Hitting Questions

This week on the Missouri Woods & Water podcast the guys sit down with their buddy Pat for a good ole fashioned spring BS session.  Micah comes with some awesome and hard hitting questions for us to answer which brings out some really interesting conversation.  We talk about things like youth turkey season, baiting deer, losing our hunting rights, headshots, crossbows being part of bow season, alternative methods season, changes in technology and how it will affect hunting, changes in our archery set ups this year, and some of our biggest hunting regrets to name a few.  Thanks for listening! 

[00:00:00] What's up everybody? Welcome to the Missouri Woods and Water Podcast. I'm your host, Nate Thomas. Wanted to hop on here real quick before we get into today's show. With myself, Micah, Andy, and our buddy Pat for our spring BS session. A lot of cool stuff. In this episode, Micah brings some hard-hitting questions in the episode.

We talk about some fun stuff, but wanted to pop in before the show starts to talk about a new. Partner that we have for this year that we didn't get to announce during the recording of this show because the recording happened before everything was [00:01:00] finalized, but I wanted to announce it today because we're super excited to work with Weber Outfitters.

Weber Outfitters is a archery and gun shop actually in Hawk Point, Missouri. They're well known as one of the largest archery hunting gear stores in East central Missouri. They provide an indoor archery range and pro shop with trained technicians for all bows and crossbows. Like I said, they als also offer a full service gun store there on site.

Weber Outfitters proudly sells the following. Archer Band's, Hoyt Bear, elite Prime, pse, diamond, and BoTech, as well as compound bones, bows from, or, I'm sorry, cross bows from Raven Barnett, killer Instinct and Expedition. They got all the types of bows that you can really ask for. They pretty much sell all brands.

They have all kinds of sites, arrows, you name it, man. It's a full service archery shop. They've got really good people out there. We're excited to be doing some awesome stuff with them this year. Be looking [00:02:00] for some shows here in the next few months we'll be doing with him. I actually think that I am going to be moving on from my bow that I've been shooting for years.

If y'all listen to our show, you know that I shoot a 2011 BoTech Assassin. I've loved that bow. I've got it ret strung more times than I can count. And I haven't really wanted to change. I think I'm gonna make a change this year and we're gonna help walk you all through the process that I have struggled with, which is, I don't know what I want, I don't know what I want to change to.

And Adam and his team are gonna help me walk through that process as well as Andy and Micah. I believe. We haven't decided what all we're gonna do, but so it's gonna be cool and we're gonna try to help walk other people like me through the same process, struggling with whether or not to get a new bow.

What do you like, what do you not like? So then you just do what I do and you just keep the same bow for years, which has served me well. But it's time for me to [00:03:00] blaze a new path. Also excited about maybe getting a new bow for my 12 year old son who has been wanting to get into cross or compound bows.

Just don't know what to do with it. So we might do that too. But anyways, like I said, we are excited to work with Weber Outfitters. They are an awesome shop and out there in Hawk Point, Missouri, which is on the east side of the state. And without further ado, check 'em out. Weber outfitters.com wanted to announce that partnership today, as they are also announcing it in today's episode, or today, I guess the date today's episode comes out.

So I wanted to make sure and reciprocate that. So me, Andy, and Micah are excited. Check 'em out. Weber outfitters.com. Give 'em a call, 6 3 6 4 8 9 72 12. And just tell 'em Missouri Wisdom Water sent you, man. All right, let's get into today's show where we we talk about all kinds of stuff, but.

More a BS session, anything. This is the [00:04:00] Missouri Woods and Water Podcast.

Welcome to the Missouri Woods and Water Podcast. Yeah. And then. And then. And then. And then you freaking suck at this dude with your host. Yep. Nate Micah. And Andy. And guest host Patrick. Patrick. Pat, how's it going? Oh, pat, how we doing? Friend Ho and Patrick. I'm here. Yeah,

so after we've been talking for, what, an hour and a half? An hour and 13 minutes. Hour and 13. We're finally gonna hit the record button. Happens. We've, once again we recorded a show without actually recording it already. Yeah. Let do it all the time. And it was a good one. We were just talking about deer [00:05:00] and then I'm like, why are we not just hitting the button?

Andy says, just hit the button. Hit the button. Push. Yeah. I always think push button, the rush hour movie, the little girl. Push a damn button. Push button. I haven't seen that movie in forever. I used to love Jackie Chan and what was that, Chris? Chris Rock? No, Chris hi Chris Rock. Chris, what the hell is his last name?

It's a very generic last name. Chris Johnson. Oh no. Oh my gosh. That's gonna bug me. Andy's gonna look it up. Simply get all Google. Yeah. Chris Jackson. Chris Robinson? No, I think it's Chris Rock. I think he is. I think Chris Rock. Chris Rock's the annoying ass voice guy. This is the dough ass guy that is No.

Is Oh no, that's a different dude. Yeah, he does have an voice. You're talking about like Adam Sandler's, Chris Rock? Yes. This is different dude. Chris Tucker. Chris Tucker. Tucker. See I told you can't understand the words and I come back. No mouth.[00:06:00] He was like, he was on a lot of stuff and then just disappeared.

I know. I haven't seen him in a long time. I don't remember the last movie he was in. That one probably, that's probably one of, that was probably like one of fun fact. Yeah. Jackie Chan got paid 15 million for rush hour. How much did Chris Tucker get paid? 25. What? Chris Jack, Chris Tucker was the star, like he, but Jackie Chan does his own stunts.

He didn't do that many stunts in that movie. That's crazy. Good for you, Christopher. Sir. I think they the, I think they got the wrong. Everyone hates Chris.

What are we doing tonight? Springtime BS session. That's what I'm calling it. Oh, is Zoe. Amy hates it. Whenever you say BS session. Tell Amy to send me some text messages for different or show titles and I'll use those. [00:07:00] Okay. I was hoping you were gonna say tell Amy to say something else but you didn't, so I wasn't gonna go there.

I'm gonna just stay on my road. I don't know where you're trying to go with that, so I'm not doing it. Probably a good idea. Yeah, I know. So springtime BS session, is that, that's what it is, right? Yeah, dude. Speaking of spring, I was, today it was rainy. Misty morning for the most part. Yeah. Fog year in hell.

I saw. No less than probably 30 turkeys throughout the day. Just everywhere out in those fields. They haven't, they weren't strutting or nothing, but they were out there just, I think they like the rain. I think they notice 'em out. I see the rain a lot. They do. They seem to get out in the fields a lot when it's rain when it starts to stop and the sun's starting to come out and they come out and they fluff up and try to get, I think get dry, get water out, get the air in there, feather.

I don't know. Somebody knows more than us, I'm sure. Knows more than no. Maybe that's where the term shake or tail feather came from. How's, no? How's a peacock? Peacock Gotta let me fly. You [00:08:00] gotta let me fly. Have you seen any out here yet, baby? I was gonna say they usually are here by now. If they are going to be the last two years at least.

That's the last two. The only, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to shoot Turkey behind my house. What'd you do? My daughter's named them. Just don't tell her. Oh he went, ger there's one out there today. What turkey's that? You know the females, Gertrude, we've had Gertrude here for 10 years. She has to be dead someplace.

And she, Kendall's not 10, but for a while. And then the male is Tommy. Tommy. Which one's that? That's Tommy. Tommy is he a big boy? He's not. You just got a how You can see a beard on him. But I saw too that, they were rope draggers. I mean they were really, yeah, they were big. I don't care how big it is.

Just big enough for a kid. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, I wasn't, I wouldn't say shit to either of the boys and Caden's already. Are we gonna go Turkey hunt this year? I don't know. Maybe you need to talk to Wiler and be like, Hey, my boys really wanted to go Turkey hunt. [00:09:00] You think we could, maybe make something happen that way.

Almost. You're pretty much guaranteed. Get one. He's, he would definitely be a killer of him. Nate's not too excited cuz Turkey hunting is not his forte. It is not my it's not my forte. My love either is not my, I like doing it. I'm terrible. Aint terrible at it. I'm gonna take something out of who did we have on a couple weeks ago?

Their book that where they said it's a nice excuse to be sitting in the woods in the springtime. Yeah. Cuz you, a lot of times when you're like a deer hunter, we're sitting in the woods where everything's dead. Kyle hunting, everything's dead most of the time. In the summer we do it, but you, that's really the only time of the year.

You're just going, you're sitting in the woods when everything's starting to come back out. And so that, that's a good point. Yeah. It still doesn't do it for me. Yeah. It's just not mine, not, I love it. Anything, I'm just bad at it. And maybe it's just because I haven't had that experience of the them, gobbling talking and doing all that.

Yeah. Because that's what I started hunting. Like the first big game. Andrew Munz said that. Yeah. It's just, was it? Yeah. Big game [00:10:00] species I went after was Turkey. Yeah. I probably did that for two years when I was Paul Campbell's head is exploding right now. 13 hearing. Say something like that. You guys don't love it.

What? I think it's a blast, but ah, it is. It is a blast. Like I say, it's fun. I'm just not good at it. There's that part aspect of it and like we've talked about it before. I've never really had like Turkey spots. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really have we don't have real prime Turkey. Any area in the county, this place, like all of a sudden the last few years I've had 'em show up.

They used to like, about this time of year they used to be such a lot more, but then they just, I took out some. Yeah. Yeah. Then they just disappear again. Yeah. Although, hey, some of the habitat work we're gonna try to do might help. It sounds. Hopefully shit. Ton of it. Let's get the sponsors.

Let's, oh yeah, we're gonna do those. Let's do that. That way we can get into it. I got the list, so I guess I'll say each one. Yeah. Speaking of Habitat works. Habitat works. Oh boy. Dustin Williams. Give 'em a call. 8 1 6 7 5 2 73 90 for all of your [00:11:00] habitat needs. That's, I wanted to say that. Timber stand improvement.

Forestry mulching. He's a big fan of fire, all that stuff. Give him a call. Mention us when you call. Get 15% off Alps Outdoors. We just had a, yeah, pat just got his new Turkey vest, I believe. What's it? Which one is it? Long spurred deluxe. Long spurred Deluxe. That's exciting. Is that one got the stands on it?

The kickstand? No. No. That's So it's just the one that, with the seat that has seat can pulled up and down. Yep. I'd like to be mobile. I got dad that's super elite. He's pretty stoked about it. Super elite? That's the one that won the field and stream. Oh, nice. Yeah. Is he going this year? He didn't go last year did he?

He went last year. Did. He took my nephew down south Instead of you. Instead of me. You got booted? Yeah. Which they heard some but they didn't get on any, but he usually goes for a couple days a year. That's about it. Nice. Hopefully that's what my dad's, one of his besides elk cunning is definitely Turkey.

Nice. He don't give a crap about whitetail. It seems like he went one time [00:12:00] last year and that was the first time in a while, but with his bow. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. But yeah, he's not usually cuz during harvest and he's doing that shit, it's not a good time for it. And he's working so I gotta get the corn so I can go Jackass around.

He's doing the work so check him out. Alps outdoors.com Use the code 2023 Woods Water for 30% off. We're excited to use some of our stuff this spring. Yep. Did I hear you talk about the Ghost 30 Pack? It's actually sitting right behind you. I just got one of those. See I got the ghost. It's my worst laptop in it.

Ghost 20. You like it? I love it. Nice. I got the Ghost 20. That's what I got it for is my laptop and all that because that one got the conceal and carry pack. Yeah. Pouch. That's what the ghost, the backside, the ghost series is both. All of 'em do. Yeah. Okay. But yeah, I want one, as you can tell. Check 'em. Ski out sunglasses pocket in the top.

It does other valuables things that you don't want getting roughed up. Skittles. Yeah. Skittles I guess would work. We're Skittles in there. Check 'em out. Hunt worth gear. Hunt worth gear.com. Use the code Mww 15 [00:13:00] or 15% off late early season. Stuff's about to come out. Put that that sweatshirt on and.

It's pretty quickly. I'm, you know me, I'm terrible at names, but even last night I used that that hoodie with a mask on it and I threw a vest. That's the one I'm talking about. I threw a vest on over top of it. I feel like it's the Shelton, but I be wrong. Maybe a Shelton hoodie could be wrong, though.

That's probably my favorite hoodie. Shit we couldn't talk about.

You're so special. I know. He is. I love it. He is testing something for them right now and he is just, loves it. He is one of the only people on the planet that has it. It's lit. There's only one other pair right now. He is just, he's giddy about it. It's pretty sweet. Andy's jealous. I know. I like how, that's why I like to bring it up.

I am too. I can't say what they are, but I would use them. Yeah. It them. And that's the great thing about Hunt worth, is they're always testing. Always innovating. Innovating. They take input from actual hunters, not just us. There, [00:14:00] there's, they got a team together, they got a team of people that, they put product in hands.

They value the sportsman's input. Make changes to things. Yep. To make them usable. They're not just a big box company that's out here just throwing stuff. Wow. This will work. No they're taking, they're trying to make it Right. Y'all put reviews on their website, they listen and read them and they listen.

They will ask for feedback too. Yep. Check 'em out. Hunt worth gear.com. Huge fans of them, black Ovis. Use the code Mww 10 for 10% off. I need to hop on there, man. I wanna buy a saddle. Me too. Yeah. And need to hop on there. They're nice. Yeah. And yeah, I wanna saddle so bad after going to ATA and playing with 'em a little bit.

It's just makes a lot of sense. Oh yeah, for sure. Especially like after having Dustin out, like thinking about stand plate with placements and stuff. It'd be nice just to go sit somewhere one time if [00:15:00] I need to. Hey, I don't really this set up. Move little, yeah, move this time. This property, it's probably not the most possible thing just because not a single tree here is going to be hangable just for a running gun situation.

Maybe some of the mature trees, but all the stuff in the backside, you're not hanging in that and hunting out of it the same day. Just such garbage hedge. And I'd say it takes prep work. Takes time. Yeah. You gotta prep a lot of these things. But I can see other places, public land, I think I would be more apt to go hunt public land more.

And actually getting a tree. Yep. I ain't lugging a stand in I don't think ever. And if we're, that's why I'm on the ground 99% of the time when I'm in that situation. So if you guys are looking for saddles, black os, check out black ovis camo fire. I have not been on that in a few days, but I'm sure they got some.

What do you think they got on there right now? I'm bet they got Turkey. Turkey stuff just on there the other day. Cruising had all kinds of different stuff. I be rubber boots was a big one. [00:16:00] Like rubber hunting boots that would make sense. Bunch of discounts for muck boots and they tried to be topical to what the time of the year is for the most part.

Year day, sleeping big. Gotta download the app. By the way folks, the app is much better than it used to be too. I've got targets, Ron. Yeah, Broadhead. Targets releases, sites, broadheads, all kinds of stuff. Crossbows. I was wrong. It's not string Turkey stuff. Wax. I must be on the wrong day. How are you on the wrong day?

I was looking at yesterday's stuff still. Oh yeah. It's all archery, archery stuff on there today. I didn't close the app from yesterday. Oh, they have all kinds of archery stuff in there. Yeah. Yep. Check 'em out. Check it out. Download the app maps. We should have, we were just talking about this before we recorded.

We should have been recorded taking last night video. Yeah. We should have taken a video of what we did last night. We were at a new spot for coyotes and it was would you say a shit show, Andy? Trying to figure it out. It was comical. It was comical. I would call it comical. It was a eventful, [00:17:00] yeah.

And OnX definitely helped us out. Get on OnX maps.com, use our code mww 20 for 20% off. And. There's a lot of nice features. We're gonna highlight some of the features that they're coming out with here this year in 2023 that are new for folks who have got that elite membership or maybe the premium.

But I got the elite, so I got all access to everything and it's, I like it. Fon optics. They're really good optics. It's ridiculous. Ridiculously good optics, ridiculously good prices. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Yeah. Check them. Yep, check 'em out. Find a dealer near you. If you don't, can't find one. As we've said before, give us a call or email us or whatever and we can get you.

Yeah. Find you a dealer. Sharp, tight. And Bryce. Just right. That's one. Are their thanks too? Good job. All right. That's the sponsors for tonight. What are we gonna, ps about boys. See, we were confused. I thought we were doing three questions. How, or a few questions. How does that always happen? Nate's trying to play the truth or dare [00:18:00] over here.

Literally. It always happens. We have a idea and then we get there and we're like, wait, I thought we were doing this. I thought we were doing this. It happened with our coyote draft too, because I think you changed the rules on your way. I don't. She tells me, Mike, Hey, we're gonna do a question, I think of a question to ask the guys tonight.

Yeah. But then we get here, let get here. Let me reread this text back to you. Yes. Three different people, three different questions. Each of us thinks of a question to ask each backup the other guys a question. Each of us think, listen closely. I've listened. Each of us thinks of a question to ask each of the other guys a question, not question a questions for to ask the others of the other guys.

So that would be a question for each of you. The guy can't know the question before it's asked to. That would make a pretty good one. That's exactly what I texted. See I don't like that platform though. A question because it doesn't matter because everybody's gonna say an answer cuz I would You're the only one.

Probably. Probably. Yeah. So it, it would just make more sense if you just had some [00:19:00] questions and then we discuss it as a group. Okay. But do it live. Yeah, we will. Stupid thing doesn't work. So do it live. It's a great clip. Just saying probably the best clip. So who's got que pat, you got a question? No, you put me on the spot.

You just said No, I did. Way to prepare. I thought of something on the right question over here. I'll get it going. God. Oh my. Did you put this in your phone? I did. You got, see I wanted to be, we should have I wanted to I got my laptop out and everything. I was typing it all out and Amy was like, for the first time you got some listener questions.

For the first time in 151 episodes, the guys are ready to go. I don't know why you talking over my story Dick. I was talking the story. No, fuck no. You had your computer out. Yeah, I was doing all these questions. I'm really proud of you for using that. Writing 'em all down and then Amy's just Ooh, do you really need that?

I need to use that tonight. I'm like, excuse you. I'm the only reason we have [00:20:00] this is for the podcast. You just a privilege that you get to use it. And she's yeah, but I gotta get this class done. She's like getting CPR certified. He something. I think that woman dead in her eye sockets. No, I did not say that.

I was like, fine, I'll do you got beer? Okay, got one for the room. Would you bait deer? Would you rather with her shut up? Would you bait deer if it was legal? Would I bait deer if it was legal? Legal? Obviously it's not legal in Missouri. It's legal in a bunch of other states. Don't ask me which ones, like Texas and Michigan.

I believes such a hard question to answer cuz I have not grown up bating deer. So it's like my initial answer is no. But if you grew up in a state where you could bait deer, that's probably what you would know is you bait deer. Cuz everybody baits. I would think, I'm not gonna lie, but I feel like that, yes.

Cuz I feel like we already do, we just can't use grain. You can't use food like a food. So you can use a food plot. The mineral has an [00:21:00] mineral at attractants per se. In it, in our county. You can use mineral. Mineral, right? Yeah. You can use salt. Other counties in Missouri you can't. The CWD counties, you mineral not use mineral.

Cw. So it's not relevant for everybody, no grain. But what's the difference in that and ud using, I guess I don't understand the difference between a food plot designed to do that or just baiting, you know what I'm saying? I consider baiting a pile of corn. That's what I would consider.

I would say the same thing. We're considered beating like a feed down in Texas where they drive the feed truck down Yeah. Down the road. And they just, you sit blind and they walk out to the road. You pick which one you want and shoot it. Yeah. If it's a legal method, if it were legal, I'm sure I would try it at some point.

Yeah. Patrick, what's your answer? I won't say No, you wouldn't. I would do it, but I would do it differently now that I know more about hunting and hunting strategy. Oh yeah. I would just keep the food available for them [00:22:00] just to keep deer around. But I would, I don't think I would hunt over bait just because if you talk to people that actually bait and do that besides like Texas and Texas, they turn nocturnal at, they turn nocturnal and they're not.

Oh, I for sure have it on a timer. But I would just keep it available. Just keep the deer around a little bit more, maybe. It's like I have a food plot now. Yeah. I don't hunt the food plot. No. None of us do at all. I do mine I guess. I guess you do. So I do mine. Yeah. I hunt near it. Yeah.

In the transition area between it. But I don't hunt, actually hunt the food plot. I did when I first started in that area. Yeah. And I didn't have any luck. I quit hunting. There's only two states that I know that it's legal in just because I just happened to know Kansas and Texas. Oh yeah. To our Kansas and Texas listeners.

I know y'all are out there. Let us know what you do. Do you bait in your state? Yeah. Does it? I don't know if it actually matters. Like I don't think you can just go out there, pour a 50, pound bag of corn and then you're gonna kill a one 50. You're gonna have a big ass set of raccoons areas is what I know, right?

I don't, I just don't think it's got the appeal. [00:23:00] And maybe it's just cuz we're in a state that doesn't allow it. Everybody thinks. I'm sure people in Missouri bait deer just not supposed to. But I don't know. I just don't think, I don't see the allure to it, but I would, I would throw corn out there just to keep 'em around.

Hell, I grew corn just so just to have it, it's basically a legal way to, it's a legal way to do it. Yeah. I did my research and I was like, cuz it just seems sketchy. I was like, but I was like, no, I'm following all the right rules. I can do this. We talked about that before me and you do it, like what's the difference?

Yeah. The, there's really not, if I mow it down, is it baiting if I put it in a pile, if I if I was to rake up all the corn out there and put it in a pile. Yeah. Is it baiting? I grew it right there. Yeah. See, I don't know if you can rake it. I think you can mow it. You can mow it, but I don't think you could.

I don't know. See, I didn't get that far in the weeds, but I know you can grow it and I know you can mow it. That is in the weeds right there. Yeah, I know. You can grow it and I know you can mow it so yeah, I, and I'm sure, I know it's legal in other states. I just, I know Kansas and Texas are the only two that I know.

So I'd like to hear from our listeners. From those two. [00:24:00] Yeah. I'm curious. I just don't, I don't think it's the end all be all sort of thing. Yeah. Whatever. All right. That's my, one of my questions. I like that one. Got the next one. I like that one. I thought it was different. Yeah, I got, that's why I said I liked it.

Yeah. I got an, do you want me to just go ahead and finish my questions? Yeah. I was waiting for the next one. Okay. I got another one. None of us have other ones. All right. Here's another, we're gonna have to carry the show. Here's another legality. Oh my God. All right. Would you still hunt? I'm gonna paint a picture for you.

It's 2033, would you rather? No, it's 2033. The hippies have taken over. Oh God. And they have stripped away our rights Oh my. As Americans to not hunt anymore. Because, not because scientifically, people are out there doing it, but they just can't, they cancel us. They cancel hunting for us. Would you still hunt?

Yes. Yes. Even though, yep. Fuck it. He was legal. See, I say that I have a hard time believing that you would because I'm not a rule breaker. Exactly. I [00:25:00] have a hard time believing that you would actually do it. That would be one. I would I don't know. I'm guessing I'm talking a big game right now, but Yeah.

If the US government came down to US outdoors, men and women, and said, you can no longer hunt. We have found that you just don't need to for, by whatever reason in, I feel like in my heart right now, I would tell 'em, fuck you, I'm doing what I'm gonna hunt. At the same time, I also don't like getting arrested and shit.

So I think we'd have a lot bigger problems, if that, if we're getting rid of hunting means that probably there's a lot of the stuff, snowball issues. Yeah. But I definitely have a feeling that that'd be a hard no for me. Yeah. Have you ever hard. No. What? Like sauce. Keep cutting.

Yeah. They can go jump off a cliff. Yeah. Kiss on this, right? Yeah. Yeah. Catch me how outside. How about outside? I'm like super proud of these questions. Like you've really put thought into it. I got another one. You ready for another one? I'm just, are we still? I'm, especially on my own property, that would what pissed me off.

Yeah, that's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are we still [00:26:00] letting this one marinade a little more? We can, because let's put, let's think if they took away our hunting rights, they take away your hunting rights. Let's, which by the way, folks, they are trying to do, oh, every day. Every day they are coming after the low hanging fruit, which right now is hound hunting, wolves.

Wolves, wolf, bears, hound hunting. Yep. They're doing all this bullshit. It's ridiculous, but, how do I wanna say it?

I could go along with it for a little while, but let's just say shit gets wild out there. People are, don't have work. The economy's crashing for whatever reason. It's just not legal. If you're telling me that I can't go hunt to feed my family, you can straight F off, but I'm gonna do it. My point is if we've lost our hunting rights, all of them, based on your question, if we've lost our hunting rights, What else have we lost?

Andy was gonna get That's what, yeah. We lost Don't have they taken our guns? I don't own because I'm if like the guns have lost, already come lost the burning accident. Yeah. Yeah. If the [00:27:00] guns are coming in the equation, I don't think we're ever gonna get to the hunting. Problem. You don't own a boat in the buddy's boat.

Yeah. Yeah. I lost 'em in that horrible boating accident. Truthfully. I, to get real deep on it, I feel like that's a God-given. That is go back agree. You go biblical on it. God put the animals here for Genesis I wish I remembered the verse, but Genesis is something he says, pick up your bow and go bow and arrows and go yeah.

Go hunt. Yep. Genesis, something was in there. It's true. So it is, it's in the Bible to do. In the Bible it tells you not to. It says, don't eat these fucking apples. Pretty sure it's like the forbidden. There might be the context there. There bud. Yeah. I think you're missing a little bit. I could I just picture what's that mean?

Don't eat the apple. Think it might've been the peach. I don't know.

He got it. The peaches what Got him in trouble. That's for sure. Yeah.[00:28:00]

Yeah. You're right Andy. That's, you're right. We, it's allowed to be regulated now just because I think there has to be organi organization to it to, for preservation. And I would, if it was to the point where they were. We don't have any deer left. If we continue to hunt I would step away.

For preservation. That's a purposes that's a different argument, right? Yeah. I'm just, I'm just, saying Yeah. Our deer hood in the state of Missouri drops to 303,000 deer or some shit. They're like, listen guys, if we keep hunting, they're gonna be gone. But if it's for a, that's a different story.

A food control purpose. You talking about I don't wanna say a doomsday reason, but nope, we're controlling. You can only, buy your food here. You can't go hunt this. Yeah. Sorry. Nope. No thanks. Don't look my freezer pass. I might be changing the name of this episode.

We ponder the world's deepest questions. The other ones aren't as deep. You got more? Yeah, I got more. Dang. He came prepared. Y'all had some y'all, I had something in my [00:29:00] head. Y'all want to this ain't really political. No, you just keep going man. We're we ask all, what is the ra, the news station says we ask the hard-hitting questions.

Somebody said that one time, I think, I don't know. I couldn't tell you. I don't watch the news. Thanks. Dan Rathers. Yeah, Brian Busby over here. Brian Busby baby. Are head shots ethical? And I'm not talking about CAOs FM fuckers, deer. Let's just say, I gotta ask that question on a podcast or couple weeks ago.

Are head shots ethical? I think so. Dan Johnson asked me that question on coyotes a couple weeks ago. Would you take a headshot? And I'm like, yep. If I felt like I can make the shot and it's the only shot I was given, I'm not just gonna take a headshot on a coyote now I'm assuming. Obviously the intention is you're going for brain, right?

Sure. That's a instant de I feel like that's a quick instant kill. So if it's dead as quick as possible feels the very li least, I think it's, [00:30:00] are you a, so you're asking on deer? Where I'm sitting right now in this room, I would not take the headshot on a deer because I don't feel confident I could hit that spot right there.

On a deer, like I'm guessing you're aiming for that eyeball, basically, right? I don't feel like, oh, more like for the ear, like temple area. Sure. Yeah. I just, it'd be like more in between. I just, it depends on the distance too. Yeah. It'd have to be sitting still standing there.

I feel like this is the same argument as like the frontal shot, right? With a bone arrow, which I think that's a money shot. It's situational. It's this distance. It's an angles, it's a lot of stuff. Very lethal shot, if situation is right. Yeah. But if you, if done correctly, if you mess up, so if you take a shot on a deer in normal kill zone, right?

Let's say, and you miss To the gut side. With a rifle. I guess we're talking about in this situation, if you miss to the gut side, you probably, that's still, that deer's still gonna die somewhere. And if you miss to the shoulder side, you're with a gun, you're probably still gonna kill that deer.[00:31:00]

With the headshot, if you miss it all, you likely aren't killing that deer and you're jacking 'em up at the same time. You've seen, we've all seen those videos of them walking around with their jaw hanging off. But at the same time though, if you miss a broadside shot and you hit it in the guts, there's no guarantee it dies.

You could gut shot a deer and it might, oh, it'll die. Now whether you find it or not, it'll get an infection and die. Yeah. If you shoot a deer in the head and you blow off a chunk of its skull and it lives for a while, it's going to die. That's true. It's gonna get it. Yeah. It'll die still. So I still think it, it comes back to your skillset.

There you go. It comes back to, a broadside 700 yard shot is not an ethical shot. Where that range is for some people is different. A 300 yard shot for some people isn't, for some people is I just finally got comfortable to the point to where I felt, for me, for the rifle, it was, I used to not think anything over 200 yards for me was a no-go.

The more I practice, the more I feel it's ethical now for me to take that shot. So I think [00:32:00] the headshot's the same scenario. It's not a, it's not a cookie cutter answer for everybody. Yeah. That's why my answer is no cuz I just don't feel like I Yeah. Yet have this, the trigger time behind that new gun that I'm gonna be using for deer.

Cuz I've only hunted it with it daytime now. Once maybe was it before that I had scope issues, but yeah, I don't think, I don't think I would take the shot right now. What about you, Patrick? For me it's a no. Personally, no, I want a bigger target that way. They say Ames ball Ms. Ball, but there's also other factors that come to.

In the shooting you have a adrenaline, you have weather, wind, all that other factors that come in. I prefer a larger target to where if I'm off that little bit, I'm still in a good situation to make a clean kill. Yeah. Where, cuz I'm, most of the time, me personally, I look lungs, if I get two lungs, it's gonna die and it's gonna die quickly.[00:33:00]

Whether with a bow or a rifle. That's me personally. But if you have the shot and you're comfortable with it, I'm not gonna knock you for it. But once again, ain my tag, I'm not gonna do it. I mean that you and I pretty much, I have the similar view and that's the, my thought is I just.

If I'm off an inch with a rifle on that big target, it's gonna, it's gonna make, it's gonna do the job. If I'm off an inch on a headshot, that could be the difference between, like I said, yeah. Boom. Or just opening up the skull and making it er for the next three weeks before it's dying. Where that, the jack as it shoots an antler off.

I would, that's what, I would never do it on a buck. I wouldn't even try it. Just see the antler. Just, yeah. Mine, it comes down to why do you wanna do the headshot? The only thing that I can think of is if you're doing headshot Yeah. It's gonna die instantly.

It's either gonna die instantly or more than likely you're gonna miss, cuz your your target's so small, but you're, what you're gaining is you more [00:34:00] potential, you can get more meat off the animal potentially. If you're hitting shoulder, you got meat loss for the most part.

Like I said, I'm not gonna knock somebody if they're comfortable with doing head shots, more power to 'em. I'm just I don't find it necessary for, my style of hunting. Yeah. But now what about archery? We're all a no on that one, right? Yeah. I don't think that would, don't think archery is a archery headshot.

No, I'm kidding. Now. I was like, please explain. Go ahead. No, jugular works very well. Yeah we Nathan's, you and I both know this down. I know that by accident. No, me and Pat, both of us. But it was an accident. It was a we can both tell our stories cuz we, this would bs session.

Truthfully, though I've heard people say that they intentionally shoot deer in the neck, man. It's just I don't know how you can plan to hit that correctly. Is he new? Your deer anatomy, no, I'm, I know the deer anatomy. I'm saying even if you're like 15 yards from a deer, The string jump that neck, that jugular would [00:35:00] move.

That's like the first thing they move. Yeah. Like that neck. So I got l and I Pat, you had this happen too, I think, right? Both of us have, but my first bow buck I ever killed was that he was at 40 yards. Yeah, 37 I think, or something like that. I actually went to draw on him and my shoulder or my elbow hit the tree behind me.

So I had to stand up. When I stood up, my stupid ass knee popped. And then of course he was like, what's that? And he's looking around, doesn't see me, doesn't smell me. So I, anchored down. And like I said, this is my first bow buck ever. So I'm nervous as shit. And I shoot and as soon as I shoot, I'm like, ah, that wasn't good.

And I see the arrow go in front of him, hit the beans, and he turns around, takes off. And I'm like, yep, I missed that. Didn't I heard it? It didn't hit anything. As soon as that deer turns around though, his neck turns red, just, I'm like, that was weird. And then he [00:36:00] bounces off hops over this field, maybe, or hops into the timber over this little berm.

And then I swear I start hearing 'em crash and I'm just like super confused at that point. What in the hell I missed him? I'm confused. So I call my brother-in-law Russell, and I'm like, Hey, I just shot at a deer, but I'm, I think I missed, but I could have swear I saw blood on him and I thought I just heard him crashing.

So I'm gonna get down. I get down, find my arrow. Arrow. I don't remember if it was, I don't remember it being that bloody to be honest with you. But I look out and the beans are just painted. And I'm like, what? So I just walk over that and he was in this, it looked like a murder scene, man.

Like he was dead within seconds. Yeah. And what happened was I missed so badly that it went through his jugular and he was dead like that.[00:37:00] Dumb luck is all it was. It was, I missed that poorly that he still died. So I took it. And that was my first buck. Would I attempt to make that shot?

Not a chance in hell myself. Just like you said, like that's the first thing they do is they drop that shoulder neck or that, their shoulders and their, they're boom loading up. Yeah. That's their first thing. Man, that's a quick movement of that jugular and Right. It's a small target.

Oh yeah. Yours is similar, wasn't it? Yeah, Andy was with me. We were hunting in a outta a ground blind, and this is the first, it was a dough that I killed, this first one I ever killed. And there was one at what was it, like 12 yards? Yeah. And I drew on her, but there was a, the cross beam of the blind was in the way.

I couldn't shoot And Andy's behind next to me with a camera just hold still. You're doing good. Just hold your drawer. Hold your drawer. And she just needed to take one step and she would not move. And Andy ranges the one [00:38:00] behind her at 20 something yards and goes, fuck it, shoot that bitch.

So I moved and thought I had settled and I punched the release bigger than shit. It would be fair, he had drawn for two minutes. Yeah. And it, I'm like it had to hit something the way she kicked. And then next thing I know she runs 30 yards across us and is piling up. I'm like I great.

I made a great shot. I was super excited. Yeah, walk over, grab the arrow and it's like you said, it's a blood bath, five gallon bucket, walk over there. And I'm like, yeah, that was not where I was aiming at all. I missed by a foot where I thought I had the pin then had 20 yards. But it worked.

I'm glad it worked because did the job, but yeah, it was not, it's not what you planned for. No. Yeah. Just a happy ending. I like, man, you, you were, you're carrying this show tonight, man. I got another one. [00:39:00] Just keep bringing it. I got a couple, but I like I got one more Micah Wednesday q and A show.

Yeah. I got one more till I'm gonna to Micah Wednesday q and a. Should I name it that one Micah's Wednesday q and a. This my bail. All right. Should cross bows have their own season? Yes. Oh shit. You are. What are you trying to do? Get us like canceled, man. Shit is canceled. Hey man, we speak the truth. You wanna know my truthful answer?

I guess we should say how, where do you think crossbows fit in the hunting world? My answer is, should crossbows have their own season? I think you might be surprised. My answer is no. Okay. There are, where do they fit in hunting? Right where they are right now. So you think that they should be able to hunt during our, now I don't know much about some of these badass cross bows that shoot 500 feet per second or [00:40:00] whatever they do, but I think Joe Rogan says that they're shitty rifles is what they are.

I guess that's the way to put it. You could out to the a hundred yards, you could kill a deer potentially. Yeah. Let me make my argument. Okay. And this is strictly because of the last few years, me personally. My sons would not get to go hunting near as much in an archery setting that they wouldn't get to, they wouldn't get to go hunting, archery setting because they can't, with a compound now they can, obviously there's guys out there and gro gals out there who have been not been able to pull back compound bows for whatever reason.

And they've been able to use 'em during regular archery season anyway, I think with doctor's notes back in the day. But for me, it's just such a good hunter recruitment tool. And I'm a perfect example. Both my sons have now gotten to go archery hunting earlier than they ever would've got to because of crossbows.

That's my argument as to [00:41:00] why they belong during, in the archery season. That's why I said yes or no. Whatever the answer was. No, I gotcha. I think they're fine where they are. That's me. I think I know what Andy is. We looking at me, Micah, I want to hear what you got, hon. Honestly, I Andy's about to be like, screw your sons.

No, I, my truthful opinion is, I think it should go back to the way it was. For the most part I think there should be an age limit. See, I think there should be a disab if you're over that age limit, go back to the doctor's note. Like you have to have a disability and a need to where you couldn't. And then also I w I'm I will agree with Nate.

I don't know how to put this non offensively, but I think it's a benefit to help get children and some women, there's plenty of women who can draw back a bow and hunt with a compound bow. Some are little though, and, but there's some that's just by [00:42:00] stature. Can't. So I'm not opposed to that. I feel like an abled body person, and I'm not gonna lie to you.

There might be a day that I fucking, not with the Crossbo, I don't know, but I feel like an able bodied person for the, I wanna say tradition of archery. Should still have, that I don't know. Should still, do you feel like some people take the easy way out? Oh, a absolutely. I If you're saying that people aren't, you're ignorant, which I guess, once again, that I guess that's their prerogative, right?

Their tag. But my argument was from my ar my way was why I said what I said with the boys. And I, I don't even think about some ladies I agree with. I agree with that, with the boys. Cause I'm a hundred percent with you and an advocate to get people outdoors and do the right things right if they can't do it.

But see, I also think they should regulate cross bows and none of this a hundred yard bullshit. And no, and I, it should be [00:43:00] something you also have to practice with to become sufficient. Just like a compound bow. And if we're not shooting deer at a hundred yards with a cop, which I realize, okay, if whatever his name is fucking run around shooting shit, I've way can't think of his name right there.

I follow him. I'm not sure. You're talking about Cameron Haynes. Cameron Haynes is running around shooting shit at 70, 80 yards. Doesn't mean that Andy Humph fields. Nah, he practices there. I know, but I'm just throwing out a general example. I don't know. It doesn't mean that I should be, but I think it's something you should have to practice, become sufficient at to be able to spend the time in the woods.

People take advantage of it and it takes away the hard work from somebody that's putting in the time, putting in the. Somebody just go buy one and shot. Ah, shot this 1 75 yards in Mac Crossbo. I really wanna throw a grenade into this whole thing for a second, but I'm gonna let Pat answer first on his opinion.

Then I'm gonna throw the grenade in Andy and I think a lot alike. I'm [00:44:00] fine with it. If you were not able body a youth, you physically cannot draw back a bow. But I know several people that are 100% able of shooting a bow talk about shooting bows, but they hunt with a crossbow because it's easier.

Yeah. And if you wanna hunt. Easy hunt rifle season like, but the season's not as long. I don't care. It's different season. You don't need it to be as long you get to hunt the rut in Missouri. Yeah, that's kiss my ass. Yeah, that's true. Kiss. Kiss my ass. I'll hunt for two months and not even pick up a fucking rifle.

Now that's a good point though. In Missouri, if they were to move the rifle season out of the rut and put archery in the rut, would I be more comfortable? I would probably be more comfortable with people using cross posts then. I don't know if I would, I don't. Less deer would die. That's the, that's gonna be a statistical fact.

[00:45:00] That's true. Just because it crossroads, like you just said, a shitty rifle, quote, unquote. Yeah. But I Can I throw my grenade in there first? Sure. We're making, which I understand your guys' arguments, and I don't disagree. He's gonna throw the long bow into it. Yep. What about those people that say the same shit about compounds?

Yeah. Compared to the recurve or the, you're more of a man than I am. But you know what I'm saying? There's an ar there's an argument there. There's an argument there. There is I sit here and I use the bow that is made how originally I can only shoot 20 yards. I can shoot 20 yards. Now you guys are shooting out to 60 or 50.

This is, you're cheating. That's valid. My, I guess my point is, where do you draw the line? Where do we say this is? This is too much and I'll be, I draw the line at, let's just say every crossbo sited in perfectly already. You could go and you could buy one at Bass Pro, go out to a stand and shoot a deer without putting any practice in it.

With a crossbow, a longbow and compound bow pisses me off. Yeah. That that would [00:46:00] piss a dude like you, us off that they That's where I draw the line. Yeah. Yeah. I get you. My thing with long bow and compound, it's the nothing against people that can't physically do it, but it's the extra physical ability to Yeah.

I meant to come to draw in hold. It's 10 times harder with a long bow cuz there's no let off. You may be, have to draw and then you can't move again. Because they're not in position and they're, they pinpoint you. Yeah. With a rifle. And I'm just gonna swing and shoot anyways. Yeah. Who gives a shit?

But, or even a, crossbo at that point, I've seen people do some stupid shit online with CrossBoss. Yeah. No, I'm not a, I agree with that. Personally, I'm not a fan, but I see your point with kids and I listen the, I'm not the bi, like the second my son can start hunting with a compound he's going to.

Just, I would've not, I would've never had that memory with him two seasons ago when he shot his [00:47:00] first deer with a bow because it was a crossbo that would've never happened. So me personally, I'm okay with them being in the season they're in. I don't think. Yeah. Some deer are gonna get killed that might not have been before because, the person might not have been close enough with a compound, and that neighbor of yours ends up killing the deer year after.

But, shit happens. Man. I don't know. I just, I don't know how you would try to segment. I would feel better about it if they weren't turned up so ridiculously fast. Man, they're getting crazy, aren't they? Yeah. And I don't know where you draw the line, like Micah said, of, okay, you're these compound bows, there's some of 'em shooting 360 feet per second.

These cross bows, they're 400 something feet per second. Where do you draw the, isn't there one that is hitting five now or something? I don't know, but okay. You gotta think of the grain arrow. If you do four sequels, mass times acceleration, technically your compound bow is probably still hitting that deer harder than it's po.

It's very possible that crossbow, but a bolt is so [00:48:00] much shorter, I've noticed. Yeah. Then that weighs, they're lighter too. Yeah. I know, like my son the bolts, cuz that's one thing I was worried about. I'm like, man, this the, there ain't nothing to this and I've got a hundred, a hundred green broadhead on the end of it and I remember even when he shot that deer and it's not even like the nicest crossbow in the world. I think I, it's a decent crossbo. But it's a 10 point I think, or no, it's the off brand to 10 point. Whatever that is. Barrett. Huh? Is it Barrett? No. Barrett's a different brand anyway. I remember when he shot that deer, I thought he missed cuz it was so damn fast.

I, we hadn't been practicing, I just still wasn't ready for the speed. I thought he missed the damn deer first. It just zipped right through 'em. And see I own a crossbow. It is a cheap, very cheap crossbow. You have to pr like the scope has a line for 20, line for, 30 line for 40. And maybe that's the answer.

You have to go to open site crossbow instead of want the scope. I don't know. Does that exist? Yeah. Yeah. My brother used to have one that has the, [00:49:00] it looked like a bow site, had a pin on it. This is a while back, but I think, you take away that flatness, quote unquote, of a crossbo and make it to where it is.

I don't know how do you wanna call it? There's some skill in there you have to practice with. That'd be fine, man. Micah, you're really like, you're really bringing, we're canceled now. It's just such a, it's a, what is it? Touch touchy subject. It's a hot topic. I don't care, when it comes down to the brass tacks of it, I don't care if you wanna hunt with a crossbo, hunt with a crossbo, if it gets you out in the woods, man, more power to you.

I'm not gonna. Just not gonna do it. I don't care. But what, just like we do with your tags, I don't care if you shoot a freaking spike, if that's legal, if you want to kill, whatever you wanna kill, that's fine. That's up to you, man. If I jack up my shoulder tomorrow, I'm hunting, I'm, yeah, I'm doing another crossbo for sure.

But please my teeth. That's a thing. That is a thing. I've seen it and it looks badass. Yeah, it looks sweet, but hopefully don't have to do that. I've ripped my, outta my head. It's whatever I'll give people shit. [00:50:00] Like I got buddy. I give him shit all the time. Oh yeah.

It's fun. But at the end of the day, at the end of the day, it don't matter. It don't matter. It's up to you. Man's a question. It's not going anywhere. No. In Missouri, it's, and I got a question, it's similar to that, that we'll get into later, but Yeah. And like where's the line get drawn? What if the next thing comes out is semi-automatic cross bows or then there's a push for there's a air rifles double.

I was gonna say air rifles. Air rifles that shoot during archery season that shoot. They shoot air arrows. See I knew there was gonna be another thing, like the next thing there was something else. There's a crossbo that just came out. It is a double bolt. I've seen this. What is it? It's a, it's got two arrows load.

It's over under shotgun. How does There's two triggers. You rack two bolts at the same time. It has two cables, two strings, two cables. That seems crazy. It's got two triggers. So that was my point is, as you guys just explained to me all this new shit that I guess the purist to me wants to say, when does it not become archery?

Then you can [00:51:00] go, okay, we can take it from that when is, define archery. At that point is what you have to do. We can keep going. Okay. And there's alternative methods season in Missouri. They allow that's being pushed too. They allow ar pistols. Ar pistols. 5 56 caliber. You got 300 blackout caliber.

You got, oh, you can Six arc. Yeah. Six arch ar 15 platform. As long as it's, I forget the measurements. It's gotta be, oh, you've seen those 2 43 pistols? Or there's, the Yeah they're rifle cartridge pistols. Yeah. Where the line, where's the line? Because it, it used to be muzzle loader season, then it was muzzle loader and pistols.

Technically that's a pistol. So looks a lot like a rifle. I, when I grew up, it was muzzle loader season. It was a right straight bore muzzle loader. And that was what you did. Hell, they got muzzle loaders out there now. 300 yards, 300, 500 yards. Yeah. They're, on modern muzzle loaders or, yeah, it's crazy.

Now you do only get one shot and you could have more, but it's gonna take you a minute to [00:52:00] get going. I don't know why we can't bring it up, but on here. But speaking of muzz loader season, are you guys interested in going during muzzle loader season to Colorado? When is that? The week after we normally go.

It's still during or is that come, is that coming up? Sunday? That's gonna be a topic of, we got a meeting, we got a meeting, we're gonna do our meeting here Sunday. Something to think about. I ain't gotta answer if you don't want to, but n no, my schedule is the only thing I'm worried about. I have no problem potentially doing it, although I'd have to get a muzzle loader.

I'd have to get with, but no, we, some of us would be still archery hunting. Oh, I see what you mean. There's a few of us that I, that are considering putting in for a mu loader tag. Yeah. We do have enough points and are considering trying to use those points. I hear what you're saying. I hear I see what you're putting down.

My issue is I'm supposed to go to a Wisconsin for work for a week very soon after we get back from our trip. Yeah. I don't know if that's weak. Now I can also be like, Hey boss, listen, I just took us down a huge rabbit hole. Yeah, I'm sorry. I guess that's a good question, Micah, just because like, [00:53:00] when does it not become archery to me, the purest in me is like archery is when you gotta physically draw a bow back and you gotta shoot it.

Now there's always exceptions. Like I, once again, I think kids, people who you so far into it because, and I think that's why the state ended up just saying, listen, cross bows, archery, the garment site. Yeah. Not a fan. It tells you where to shoot, you range it and it moves your, kinda like the sig site on the gun.

There's other ones that, the electronics and sites is another, okay. Is that Where's too far? Too far? Yeah. For me that's too far. I don't like it. See, that's weird because I'm on the other, I'm on the other side. A rangefinder in my pocket though. Yeah. What's what the hell is the difference?

What's same damn thing? What's the difference? And to me, I don't, it's just funny cuz you and I are like on opposite sides. Cuz for me, like that garment site, I don't give a shit. That's cool. Rangefinders in the site. Yeah, because I'm one of those I got just like you said, oh's cool. I got a rangefinder in my pocket.

What's the damn difference? It's cool. But to me that crosses a line somewhere. The fictitious line we're talking about when it [00:54:00] does cross the line in some states. Yeah. Like in, in Colorado you can't use that site. But yeah, I don't know. That's why I think I would not want to be a rule maker cuz you're gonna piss people off no matter what.

You what you do. How you do it. It's one of my favorite things to do. Just piss people off. You should be the rule maker then. That's a good one. I just, yeah. The whole speed thing for me, like there has to be a top end to it. I don't know. Air rifles that shoot arrows. It's a thing. I don't know.

I don't know if that's getting pushed in our state, but I don't think it's considered archery. It's probably, and I'm wondering if archery, I got to click that. I wonder if it has to do with limbs. Your pro, like your right, it has a limb. You know what I'm saying? What the right terminology is.

But like your a, a limb and a string that drives the projectile forward. Yeah, but like crossbows, like if you shoot a boon and Crocker, whatever, it's not accepted. Because if it was a crossbow, which I'll be honest with you, I can give bo shits [00:55:00] of Boon Crock Crockett. It puts me in their book. It's not Missouri specific.

That's pop and young. It's not, it doesn't go in pop and young. Pop and young is archery only. Okay. Yeah. Pop and they don't recognize Crossbow kills me personally. I could give a shit if you don't re care. Recognize me. I don't care about the books. But yeah. Anyways, I'm just, I'm never getting, I'll be honest with you, I have a, I've always had it, but I really want to kill a deer with a traditional bow.

Never done it. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Oh, how many years have I been wanting to get one? And then you guys, you got me hooked on coyo hunting. So same. I spent all my line, it's basically about the time. Yeah, we did, because I literally had my long bow picked out ready to order, and then I'm like, you'll do this rifle thing over here.

But Oh, what the hell is I gonna say? It was based on what we were just talking about and it just fell outta my head, but I don't know. Yeah, it's a touchy subject, that's for sure. Micah, it is. You're bringing, you're Barbara Walters up in this bitch tonight. We're can, we're canceled on half of our listeners right [00:56:00] now.

Nah, you know what we're approaching it the way we feel like we're approaching it, I did. So having a discussion one time for work, I went to a a cfm. Yeah, so C Yeah. Conservation yeah, conservation. Conservation of Missouri. I was at a meeting there and I didn't know what I was going into, but it, CFMs a great organization for that, but that was a discussion and it got really heated in that.

Obviously we all have our opinions here, but like those are the people who are helping decide some of these things, and it's just, it's not an open consist consensus. Of people. And it's a hard decision, but at the end of the day, it's getting more people in the woods, which is a good thing.

When Dan Johnson makes a perfect example when oh I remember what I was gonna say anyway, but when he's talking about what is cheating? And basically that's what my question here in a while is gonna come up. Is the tree stand cheating? It's giving you an advantage over the deer.

Is it crossbo cheating? It's giving you an advantage over, the compound hunter is a rifle cheating is using scent cover cheating? Like what? Yeah. [00:57:00] What is, who's the judge, jury, and executioner on what is and what isn't? Yeah. Our trail cam's cheating are cell cams that are sending you realtime inf like all these things which don't answer the question.

We're back to sticking, at the sharpened stick, for a spear. Like that. And part of the argument is, which I'd also try, we are human beings. Our weapon is our mind. Like we, we get the advantage over animals and are able to kill 'em because we can figure out how to do it at the end of the day, not because we're faster, stronger.

And any of that comes down to a quick ethical kill. Yeah, exactly. Can you do it ethically and quick? Yeah, that's a good point. What else you got over there, bro? That's all I got. Okay. You want me to get do mine? It ain't gonna be bear than mine, but whatever. So this is one we actually had in our podcast ideas.

It was an idea for an off-season show. So Perfect. Changes in technology and how they're going to affect regulations moving forward. Stuff like cell cams [00:58:00] that send you real-time photos. Drones, they'll be banned within five years. All those things, like when does fair chase, stop being fair and what are things that.

Aren't fair to you? Like I was saying with tree stand, somebody's made the argument before that a tree stand is technically you're tricking a deer. That's not fair. Chase, I guess that's an argument, but technology's gonna keep advancing. To me, fair chase has to do with confinement of the animal.

Like as long as that anals allowed to move freely about, okay, so lemme paint a picture for you. Just because I want to be an asshole and actually, let's do it like argue, I like to I get a, I go by a drone and I get it up in here and I fly it over the woods. And I'm not saying I'm doing this by the way, I'm just painting a picture and let's just pretend it's perfectly legal at the time.

Do, there he is gonna go kill him. Is that fair, chase? [00:59:00] No, I literally didn't. My, my point to using technology in that manner, but is you are no longer hunting the animal, but you said it's legal. Correct. In my scenario right here. It's a legal thing to do. Then I feel like it is fair chase that, that animal to me, it's not, the animal is not confined.

Sure. The animal is not, you're still gonna have a hell of a hard time getting on that animal. That's what I'm saying, like getting shot. If you're dealing it with a rifle and you got a few guys, I think he'd easy. But if you get a bow, I don't care. I don't care if you know exactly what tree he's under, I still don't think getting up on him, that's gonna be, to me, that's no longer hunting.

It's on your own property. It's on, you're right. I agree. It's like you're, you just, I'm trying to argue with you, but I don't like that. I don't think it's, I don't think it's, I also ethical, I also feel that way about realtime cell cam pictures. Like I'm sitting in this room with you guys right now and it's hunting [01:00:00] season and I ding oh.

Deer's right there. Run outside. Shoot him. Done. Yeah. See the thing with trail cam pictures of that camera is stationary. They cross your camera going one direction. Nothing says they don't walk. Nothing says they're still going that direction. Walk around your camera, go back the way they came from, you have no idea.

It just says, Hey, they're in the area. Which is the same thing that drone's doing in my scenarios, saying there he is. You could theoretically keep up in the air. Keep that thing up there and be with. If, especially with drones, then you're pushing the most of the time you get to be in range for the remote to work with a drone, which I have no idea.

You've never had a drone. The motorized vehicle deal. Okay, so can I run 'em down with the side by side? What if they're pigs? You see what the argument's, what I'm talking about. Fair for pigs. That would be funny shit. Did you see that one video? That dude just freaking ran it over with his truck.

It was running right at him down a gravel road and he just, no, I did not. I really want to see that. He's in Texas. He's got a brush guard on the front of his truck and a. A pig's just [01:01:00] running right down the gravel road right at him. He just stays on the gas and boom, just finishes it. But what my point is, you see the arguments, I think we're gonna start having here in the next couple years as this technology keeps getting better and better.

I I think they, like that drone, what's the drone recovery guy? The, yeah. I have a feeling that it's gonna be outlawed in the next three to five years. So you have places li like Colorado, you can't technically hunt within 24 hours of being on a plane. I think you're gonna have to Is that Colorado or is that, I know Alaska's like that.

Colorado's like that. Okay. So I think you're gonna have some same stipulations and things I would imagine for stuff like that. Like you can't, I don't know, I don't know how you regulate that, but. I don't know if you Yeah. What do you like, who decides something's fair Chase? Because that drone Deer recovery the thermal Deer, deer Recovery people cuz there's several of 'em out there now.[01:02:00]

On one hand it's a very effective way to find a deer. It's a hell of a tool. I think it's a great thing if you're not, it's almost more healthy, effective than dogs waste meat, yeah. That's a great thing. If that's what I, and I'm saying what they're doing. Oh no, they're doing it the right way.

They're doing that. Yeah. They're doing it the right way. They're using it to find deer that have been shot, but that have been shot, but some, somewhere down the line is going to use it. People way are pieces of shit. Yep. Somebody's gonna use that to, break the law. And unfortunately, even in, you've seen some of their videos that they put out on YouTube, sometimes they find the deer and it's not dead.

Or the deer doesn't look like it's gonna die. Like it's just feeding. And now the people that they're searching for that deer for know where that deer is. Once he leaves that property, he has no, I, it's not his fault. He was just trying to find a deer that has been shot, but it goes right back to the picture I just painted five minutes ago.

That's the same, that's the same thing. Now they [01:03:00] know exactly where that deer is. Are they gonna go out and, take care of it. Now if the deer's injured and in trouble, obviously now they can go dispatch it the next morning when they can start hunting again with their bow or whatever is legal at that time.

But yeah, I like you see, dude, those are badass videos. Oh, they're sweet. That is technology getting really hardcore. And, it's right into our world of, like, how far away are we getting from being hunters, our cell cams now, or our cutting link systems are cell cams.

Now, some of us people out here calling ourselves hunters would be gatherers if it wasn't for technology. Yeah. All of our cameras, we have cell cams now, so we get that email twice today and it's just is that fair? Chase? Some people argue it's not, some states say no, so there's some states outlaw.

Arizona just says Arizona. Arizona another outlaw state just did it completely. What state just did it? Kansas. Kansas just [01:04:00] did something. What did they do? It was cell cameras, I think on public land. On public land, cell phone. Cameras on public land. And I think the main reason they do it out there is because the harassment of.

Because they're getting tired of, I don't think it was cell. Was it cell cameras or was it just cameras in general? I think it was just, I think it was cameras in general in Arizona. It was just cameras straight up at all. Straight up Kansas. I have no idea. It was one of the, I could see public land cuz like you said, in and out.

Yeah. Constantly. People come and go checking your cards, doing that sort of thing. Putting cameras out. You're at some point you're harassing wildlife. Yeah. They can't live. I understand it. Yeah. Especially on public land For sure. I get it. I understand it. Which is where the cell cam is a benefit.

Cuz you've said it in good leap, don't ever come back. But at the same time it is public land. So if I wanna go hike in there every day, you could. Yeah. Good. So what's the difference, right? There's an argument, there's not much one there. I'm just playing devil's. S a lot of different roads. You can go down on all these.

So you're outta questions? I'm outta questions. Yeah. Pat just admitted he didn't have any. I have some [01:05:00] now. Oh, you've thought of some. All right, let's hear. Let's hear what you got. We've been talking about archery hunting. Any, you all making any big changes? Cuz it's about time to start shooting bows again.

Funny you should say that. That was one of my questions. I know. I am. Anyone making any big changes, minor changes, further setups for the next year. I feel like I'm gonna be making a big change that I am scared to make, but I think I'm doing it. I'm changing my bow, I'm changing my broadhead zone, I'm changing my sight.

Changing my, and possibly my release. Changing it all. Changing it all. There you go. Poof. You just start fresh. Can I get that thumb release back then? Yeah. I don't use it. I think I'm changing my bow this year. So the 12 year old assassin might be, retire. I don't think he's gonna go anywhere. I think he's just gonna stay in the basement.

A good little back. Back bow backup bow. Yeah. I might even get it ret strung actually. And take it with us just in case like I'm freaked out. You had that happen right when we got back from Colorado. You nicked your string. It was the last day. In Colorado. I thought it was here and [01:06:00] then you didn't have a bow for the first week or whatever of archery season here or some shit, right?

Yeah. Then I bought the new one that got ground tuned. Yeah. Anyway, I think I'm changing my bow, my release I love, so I'm not changing that, I'm not planning on changing arrows because I've still got 20 lefts. I'm not doing it well. I don't know it. It depends on the bow. And you might have to change, you might have to depending on your bow.

Just depends. Yeah. And I'm probably gonna use the same site just cuz I, I like that site a lot, but the bow is most likely changing. I shoot a single pin right now, I wanna go to a three pin slide and that's what I already have. So I'm go to a three pen. It's pretty badass. I like this. Yeah. Oh fan.

If Trophy Ridge would get their shit together and get freak, dude, I have never understood that. I don't get it either. They have got a awesome sight. The React Trio Pro sitting right there. And then the only offering is in 19 pen size. Yeah. Put some 10 on there. I'm just like, what? Why? I just want tens. I can't use those [01:07:00] nineteens, man.

It's just, I probably could, but such great technology. I'm just not doing it. I'm outta spite now. Just be like, Nope, I'm not doing till you make it. Yep. Pretty much. And I talked to him at ata. I don't know what that's happening. Yeah. He said it probably wasn't Andy. I don't know. Glad to see.

I'm the only one that puts any effort into this. Good to No, you did well. I'm ha answering his question. Oh yeah. No, I don't have a question either. See what I mean? I don't know if I'm a I because you like your vxr. Yeah. I like my vxr. Dang damn things pretty much new. I like my broadheads. It's about time for me to change releases.

Mine's getting older. I like my release, but I would be open to. Something different. Trying something. I like, I mean I like my setup. My I, the site is one thing. I have the, I have a spot hog, three pen slider. I like it, but [01:08:00] I want to go to something just simpler. It sounds dumb. Like I love practicing and jacking around, shooting at, 70, 80, 90, a hundred yards.

It's fun to do but it's not practical. And before I had kids I had, so you thinking about going to five pin fixed or something? I'm thinking about, yeah. Going to a more of a five pin fixed, the 10 pin i, the trophy ridge React. Five I like the idea of the rack five. I thought about even a seven pin just cause I do think that one too.

I do shooting. I just don't know why so much. I don't know why you would want so much of that in your site. I hate. That's why I went lot to a single pin man. I got tired cuz I was always shooting, but I dude like five pins and I was like, there's just too much. I didn't mind having five that React trio, that I, or the React five pin that came in 10 pin size.

I liked it. It didn't bother me at all, but I, when I went to that three pin slider, I was just like, all right. As of right now, if I go to one, it's gonna be the React Trio Pro. The Five Pin or the React five or the, yeah, sorry. The React five Pin Pro, whatever, [01:09:00] it's yeah. Oh five Pro. Yeah. Yeah. Just because, and I thought about the Trio Pro.

I might even still have that site. Yeah, but it's not left-handed. Oh God. That's your own fault. Yeah. Just flip. That's honestly like A lot of recite. Yep. It's good. You laugh. There is a site that's in there that is just flipped over. I did that on Amy's bow once for the site. Did you? Yeah, but part of being left-handed, my draw length is 31 and a quarter.

My bow selection for New Bowes is very limited. Limited, yep. So once I get something I like, it's hard for me to change because it's hard for me to get rid of old bows. Yeah. Like you got a closet full of just old bows at this point, don't you? I finally got rid of one of the other ones. I, at one point in time I had four bows cuz there's not worth anything.

People, there's some buy, sell trade groups out there, right? It's a small group of people though, but it's a small group of people. And I have a bad habit. I keep a bow. I like for, five years. By then the, that's not the newest thing that's come out. A lot of people on those, [01:10:00] buy, sell, trade groups are wanting within the last couple year BO type deal.

And so it's out of the market. It's not relevant to what they're looking for. And okay, I can sell it for 150 bucks. I'll just keep it. I don't know, I'm just, that's how that's how I feel about my assassin. Who's gonna wanna buy a 12 year old bow? So that's a great backup.

Although I'm probably gonna u reuse that site. So then what do you do? I guess I could just keep that site on the bow and get another one of those sites. But those are expensive sites. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure, yeah, that's a and the weight of my site, black gold and is custom made too. Yeah. Yeah. You custom ordered your black gold.

I custom ordered that one. The weight of that spot hog. It's pretty heavy. Is it pretty heavy? Is it pretty heavy site? Which, yeah. Again, I really like it, but I thought about just simplifying it a little bit. Yeah, I get it. I get it. I always like them CBEs, the CBE sites? Like the engages. [01:11:00] Yeah. They seem pretty sweet.

They're heavy too. Are they? I looked at one before I got my black gold. I like though they have steel. The light tapes are steel. Instead of tape Instead of an actual tape. Yeah. Was it got like adhesive on the back of it and you like, I think they screw, that's they screw in no shit. They got a little screws.

That's nice. I like that feature, which I've never had a problem with my tape. Like me either. My tape's never had any issues. Yeah. It's that and React one, it's got the deals anyways, like it's got just lights or whatever you wanna call it, you don't even technically need the tape.

But what I like about that is if you get one that's just, ah, I didn't get the right tape. Cuz you know how you line up and you're like, okay, that's the right tape. Like on my black gold now it's just like a touch off. So like I have a mark for 41 or 40. Or not 40, I guess 50. Like it's just, I know.

So like when I, let's say I'm shooting 50 yards, I call it heavy 50. So it's more like I go down to [01:12:00] 51 just cuz I just touch off. You just unscrew that one and put it right back on the next one and you don't have to worry about, oh I gotta peel this tape off and yeah, whatever.

Because I didn't wanna do that, so I just sharpened. And obviously when you know your bow, you know your sight, that's not a problem. But it'd be really nice just to plug and play. That's nice. Little neat. I have an archery related question. Do you have any more questions? No, that was not yet. That was the one.

Okay. So mine actually I was thinking of Pat when I thought of this question earlier. So I would say out of the four of us in this group right now, not that me, Andy, and Micah have not worked hard over the past few years, but I would say Pat has put a lot of time in getting better with the bow.

Yeah. What do you, and this is for everybody, but what do y'all think is the one, the biggest thing you did to become a more proficient bow hunter, or shooter of the bow [01:13:00] shoot? Consistency. Shoot. Shoot. This is gonna be a quick question. Jesus. Yeah. Shoot. Consistency. Shoot. What's your one word answer practice?

I'll be honest I'm not gonna dog on pat, but I feel truly he went from probably the worst shooter in our group there for a little bit in the very beginning to the best. No, that's my point, is like he, I don't know if I'd go best I'm still gonna beat all y'all motherfuckers. We, but no, I'm just kidding.

Here we go again. But that my, that was my point is I remember five, six years ago, like we went to a that shoot and you're just like, screw this. And then it was just like, hour after hour. How many different releases did you go through trying to figure out what you wanted? Like after three releases, I've done your own arrows, four or five arrow setups.

So that made me think of what was that one thing, which never is that easy of an answer, but what was the biggest thing that helped you become, I'd [01:14:00] say, where you are now? A couple things. The answer is, this is for all of us, but that was my question. There's a couple things that helped me is one, getting the bow tuned properly to what arrows I decided I picked where I wanted to be with arrows.

I played with a few, got it to where, what I wanted, close to what I wanted was shooting great out of the bow, a paper tune perfectly. The arrow flight was good and then it came down to practicing and making sure I was making good shots consistently. And of course, like I. You've guys have shot two or three different releases that I, or two of the thumb releases that I've tried.

And I ran one forever though higher, one I didn't like. And all of a sudden this last year, I switched. Yeah, I picked it up one day. I'm like, I'll play with this one. Wow, that feels great. I'm gonna shoot this one instead. And it worked. It's just a lot of it comes outta comfort if you're comfortable to your equipment and you can make shots like be comfortable shooting the bow.

That's why I don't wanna get rid of my [01:15:00] assassin. It's No I agree. That's, when I was thinking of that question for you guys, then it made me think of what made me a better shooter? What did I do over the past, however long to become a better shooter? And it's a twofold answer for me, but I think my release, the ones I was using prior were not well suited for a guy like me.

And when I found a good release off of some advice from a really smart archery person that was like aha moment number one. And then I'm not saying I know how to shoot perfectly correct, but learning how to shoot, going all, following through that changed a lot of shit for me using, cuz I used still use a trigger release.

But there's a difference between how when you hear trigger release, how do you automatically envision someone using that trigger? Like this, like pulling trigger? No. [01:16:00] So you're not supposed to do it, you're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to have the finger there and the tension is back tension.

Yeah. Yeah. And when I learned to use those back muscles and keep 'em, I guess flexed, whatever you wanna call it, and through the shot, Anne had to hold a bow correctly cuz all, a lot of people, you're just. You're straight up and down. You don't want to be that way. When I got those pointers from Doug Hutchinson I felt like all of a sudden things started really clicking for me. And then you start shooting shooting, shooting. And that was my biggest aha moment, so then it made me think it'd be a good question to ask Pat and everybody else. Yeah. I just didn't want to be a, how do I say it?

I don't know. I have a real pet peeve if I'm watching hunting shows and, there's all, and I'm not gonna name any of 'em, but, and they'll show 'em Pusy shooting their bow. They never hit the target. I don't know what they're name aiming for specifically, like on a block target or something.

But it's never like in the center of any of the targets. And that's a big pet peeve for me. [01:17:00] I want shoot, like where I wanna shoot. I don't wanna be an inch or two off. I want tight grips. Tight grips. I still, to this day, and my buzz's been paper tuned. I've tuned it. I have a deal. My arrow, I swear, and its probably has to do with my arrow length.

I watch my, the arrows are 18 feet long. Not quite, but pretty close. I can see my f flexings kick out just a little bit. When I'm shooting any distance I can see my arrow moving, it bothers the absolute shit outta me. I get frustrated, but I don't like moving stuff because I'm afraid I'm gonna move it.

So far outta whack, I'll have it completely jacked up. It's happened with multiple, one of my bows. I don't like it, so I don't know. Yeah. Honestly. And he doesn't need a plug. But Doug Hutchinson, I bet you could fix you right up. Yeah. Figure out like why is it kicking? It could just be like your Fletchers.

I mean it could be something basic like that. I felt bad. It helped a little bit. Cause I went from a right [01:18:00] helic to a left helical, which you're left-handed. So that could, that doesn't matter. I know that's the bow each bow's gonna shoot different. Yeah, it just depends on the bow. Looks like they say Matthews notorious for the left spin, so left heels.

Mine are right heel cool. And they fly good out there. I mean because I mine all the arrows I already previously had were all right heel and I was shooting those. I'm like, guys is getting frustrating. And finally I was like, you know what, I have a bear shaft. I'm gonna go try it. And sure as shit has started turning left, I'm like, you gotta be shitting me.

How far away do you gotta be whenever you shoot that? The what? To find out if it's a left or a right. Basically just, you have to, from my understanding, you have to be far enough that the arrow will clear your bow and you can see you make a mark on the. And see where it, if it starts at 12 o'clock, did it go to 10 o'clock or did it go to, two or three o'clock?

Gotcha. That's what I was, did that, I don't know if that's right or wrong. Yeah, but makes sense, dude. That'd be my recommendation is still see Doug and I don't if I are you new to get ret strung anyway? I don't know. Your [01:19:00] Bo's gonna be three years old this year, isn't it? Is this your third season with it?

Coming up will be third coming up, dude. I'd go get it re strung and have him fix your head up and he'll tune in everyth. He'll tune it and everything for you. He's good, man. He hooked me up. Yeah, that's good dude. If you're in the Casey area and Doug Hutchson is still tuning bows for people don't know if he is, I don't even remember the name.

He technically has a business name. I don't, I can find the picture. I've got it. I've got it in my phone. But he's amazing. He's the guy that retr my stuff right now. Anyways, that was my question. Second question. My other ones were a little more stupid, so what's your favorite memory growing up?

Stuff like that. I like the format we are using. Old mine. I like the format we were using tonight. Micah just went straight at it. Went to the jugular. Yeah. Andy, what's yours? I fucks with it. The only one I have is in your hunting career. If you [01:20:00] can get one point in time back. Ooh. If you could re, if you could relive and one point in time and let's say go five, 10 seconds before an event or something, or one day or whatever and relive one day.

Get a doover. And be a doover. If you can get a doover, put yourself back in it, in this very specific like place, but just change the decision you made. What, when, where, and why. Or when, where, what not. I know my answer. You want me to go first, Gary? I know your answer. Then answer for me. I know it too. I think that bull elk.

Yep. We had it 20 yards. I'd have pulled the fucking trigger. I was ready. I, and I think what pisses me off most about that year is I told myself, and I even told you guys, I'm shooting one this year. I'm not gonna pussy foot around. I'm gonna, I'm ready to kill. I'm ready to shoot. And then I shit my pants.

Should we put, before we get too into, should I put [01:21:00] his out there? I got it. Put who's out there? No, I don't want people to know where it's at. Okay. I don't wanna get my shit in there. Oh. I'm joking. Chase archery. Chase Archery. There it is. Yep. Customs bow tuning. 8 16 8 8 5 7 5 9 9. That's all you get. I ain't repeating.

It's just like after the fact. I'm like, what? How did I. I, you know what I'm saying? Like it, I just, it pissed me so off that I didn't even get the shot off and I should have been able to I would've Was this the same one that year Russell killed his No. No. Russell was in or is this the one where both of you were drawn?

That elk? Both were, Russell was in New Mexico two years ago. Okay. I know which one you're talking about then. It was day one, wasn't it? No. It was later. It was later actually. Yeah. Cause it was, the thing I would've changed is, and please I'm not yelling at you or mad at you. I would've told you to stop moving.

I think Tim Mic could've told you to fuck, stop moving. He was in the sun. I wasn't. That was the, his problem was he was in the sun. You were [01:22:00] three inches away from me. I was on the other side of a tree though. He couldn't see me. No, you weren't. Yes. There was a tree in between you and I in front of you.

No, there wasn't. We were literally shoulder to shoulder almost. No, I moved over. Best question of the night to get behind a tree. No, you didn't. Oh my God. Yes I did. There was a tree from me to you. In between You were here. I was here. There was a tree right there, so I stepped over so that the elk couldn't see me anymore.

So maybe you moved. And then I got outta the sun too. Dude, by the time it was over, you were 10 feet away from me. You are full of shit. Oh my God. No I will take you back there next year. That'll show you exactly where we were, dude. You know how like you remember things or you think you remember things?

No, he's gonna, yeah, he's gonna really, he's gonna really stupid. You didn't step at all. I think you stupid dude. As I was knocking my arrow, I was moving right out of the way of No. Behind that tree. No, because I didn't see the elk until he came out, because the tree was in my way. [01:23:00] One of you two has told this story so many times.

I can guarantee you. Talk yourself into it. We can go back to the spot and I will be like, you were here. I was there. There's the tree, by the way. And you're gonna go, oh, yeah. Oh, sorry. I'm right. Just take it. Let's be honest, I'm not. The trees look the same in the dark. No I can take you back to that spot.

Okay, so we know Nate's point in time. Yeah. Bull Elk. 2021. 2020, whatever. September 7th, approximately ten nine thirty 7:00 AM It was in the afternoon, midday. It was 9,173 feet. Oh, he can tell you what feet I guarantee it. He pulled as on. I guarantee he's got that spot Mark. He probably dropped that pin and zoom in and show you the truth.

Step behind my heart. That's my point is see, look, it's cast in a shadow right now. I was right there freaking here. I'm telling you, I can take you through that. Everything that happened from when I saw the elk where he was, where you were, where I was and [01:24:00] the small move I made to the right so that I could get in out of the sun as best we could, cuz it was not great.

And then there was a, that tree blocked me and him. I don't remember if you moved or not, but I got away. Far away from you. Farther away from you. I didn't take any steps. I'm pretty confident you did take any steps. I'm a hundred percent confident. I did. All right. Micah, what is, what's your, what is your one point in time liar.

I don't know man. I got a few of them. Really? But I thought you were gonna say one. You get one.

I can't believe you. Come back to me. Okay. Okay. I can't think which one. I'm surprised by this, pat.

I'm gonna go back to Colorado. When you find a rub that's fresh and the grass is matted, don't [01:25:00] fucking move. Don't move. What do you have done? Because I'll be honest with you, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Cuz you were standing next to me. Did you take how many steps? We did?

Oh, we did. We went too far. I'll pick it off. It was, that one was, it was a little bit on me cuz I'm gonna go sit on that log over there instead of sit down. I got three steps from the log. And one of the biggest elk, I'm taking Pat's story over here. No, that's fine. You were there too.

But it was huge. Huge. Most of the elk we've seen out there are the bulls. Huge. They've been good sized elk. Upper 200 class I would call 'em. And I'm not talking about the rack. I have no idea how big this rack was on that. Elk didn't even see it. The shoulders on this bull elk, fricking massive.

Like it was a different caliber of size of body than the ass must looked like a Volkswagen beagle as it ran away. Yeah. She got a fat ass. Yeah, a fat ass. That thing was sitting [01:26:00] about 30 yards from us someplace in the brush. We didn't know it. And where the rib was, he was probably about 20. He still had no idea he was sitting, I don't know.

I don't know where he was, but it, when he crashed it was a cat dozer. Yeah. So that's your, Takeback is, yeah. Would've stood still. That was last season too? No, it was, no. Oh, okay. It was the same year as, yeah. Oh, so two seasons ago. Yeah. Two. Yeah. Our next season. It'll have been two seasons ago. Am I thinking about that, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Andy, since we gotta come back to Micah, what's your do-over, man? I got one easy one, and then one that is like not, I have an elk hunting one, and then I have a non elk hunting. I I, you just told Micah you get one. I know. I'm trying to decide which one I want to go with. Can we answer for elk and whitetail?

Sure. Okay. Mine's not even whitetail. [01:27:00] Yes, but okay. Kyle, was it Coyo? Yeah, my mine was my elk was my very first year hunting. Hunting out there. Know the answer here. And the tree was way up there, wasn't it? It was just hot. And I had left the trail. Russell went and took care of some paperwork and I was like, all right, I won't go over here a little bit.

He we got, he was gonna go above on it. Anyway, we came up trying to go to the same spot. I was already there. I won. And I sat down on a log, sat there for a while and I noticed sitting that when I was sitting there that there was, someone had been in there and hung, hung a scent deal from a tree.

And I was like, I don't even know if that works. Does that work for elk? I wear the middle of the mountain my first year out there. So I had no clue. I'm wearing an orange vest cuz it was during muzz season, which is not required by an archery hunter, I'm pretty sure in Colorado. But should I know what I was doing?

So I had one on anyway, just in case. I sit down, I'm sitting there eating some gushers. I hear a stick break, look over my [01:28:00] shoulder thinking it's gonna be a squirrel, and here comes a six by six bull elk walking to me. I'm like oh shit. This is the first time I've ever seen an elk in the wild, let alone.

Very rarely at least You remembered you had a bow with you. Yeah, I was like that. Okay. So it just keeps walking in perfectly. I pick up my bow, step over this log. I walk five yards like sideways, very slowly to get a shooting lane. I get a perfect shooting lane. The elk walks right into it, stops, puts its head down.

Broadside. I draw, I settle. If you notice, I never ranged him. And reason being was the rangefinder was in a flap on the side of my belt that was on like a belt pouch. That was Velcro and I did not want to take it out. A whitetailed deer. I figured like I have a pretty good gauge of, if it's 20, 30, 40 yards, not seeing an animal of that [01:29:00] size before in the wild.

I completely freaked out, let alone I was having freaking out. So you thought he was right on top of you or the other way around? No other way around. I had no, I, my death perception was gone. Yeah. I guessed at 40. And I, touched that release shot thinking, oh, I got him. It just, all, everything your heart's pumping thing has come together that elk, I swear to God, his belly touched the ground in the matter of 0.2 seconds and I hear up just a thump.

Oh, I got him. I got. He just fucking keeps running and he's fine. There's no arrow in him. There's no arrow in him. I don't see any blood here. You're lucky I can see this elk running through the timber. He runs around and he barks at me. I'm like, you gotta be shitting me. I look for blood. Then I turn around I range where I was standing at and I went, oh no, I was that 30 yards.

So I took a 30 yard chip shot, shot at [01:30:00] 40, shot over this Elk's back and killed that tree. I had every emotion in the book on that one. And eventually I got ahold of Russell and he came down and helped me. Look, just to make sure I missed, cause I heard that thump and I just, yeah. 12 feet up in the tree over the little hump in the timber was my arrow.

That's still there to this day. Cause I couldn't reach it. But that was, yeah. Yeah, that would be a rough one. If you could give me back, literally. Half a second to just bring my sight down just a little bit. That'd be, otherwise I would not have changed it.

So that's two for you? No, that's one for you. You haven't had a whitetail one yet? I wasn't talked about whitetails at all. Yeah, they have all been elk so far. Okay. So now we'll start our whitetail. Get me do-overs. Do I get to do bike? You gonna finally? I probably would've, yeah, probably that one we had.

You don't get the answer the same. No, because I had just a [01:31:00] much of a chance of shooting that thing as you did. No, but you can't do the same answer. Gotta think of a different one. Okay. Then probably that elk that we, that us three had facing us, if you could have took two or three steps to your right.

Yeah, I probably, you probably had a shot on that one. We had a shot, so that one, we were into 'em that day. Dude, man we always figure 'em out on the last day. You can have that one. Two years ago. I'll take the one my second year where you and I were together. Where you were gonna videotape it? Oh yeah, that was my, you came up too soon?

That was my first year, yeah, my first year that I, that one actually might be worse. Worse than that one now that I think of it. I forgot about that one. I thought that was gonna be worse. Micah, you can have that one. Yeah, I thought that was my second year, which is Micah's first year. It was the very first morning.

Maybe an hour into the day. Yeah. Micah is still just like taking in fast in Colorado. I'm in the mountains. You've never done before. It's this massive thing. It's intimidating. Yeah. And I don't know that it's 90, 90 yards up the [01:32:00] timber I mentioned. I'm like, I swear I just saw an elk, flashing.

So we like moved this way and we did two cow calls, if I remember correctly. Yeah. And then we like moved down wind and we set up and I'm like, man, if I was an elk and I wanted to try to swing and try to get the wind, I'd come right here and I'd, and so we're sitting there and we kept hearing, oh man, sounds, man, but I, maybe that's just a squirrel day one.

It takes you a minute to kinda get acclimated to the sounds. And I, how long do you think we sat there for? Not very long. Five minutes, maybe. Something like that. Let's just say five minutes then. And about that time I said, and I think it's just squirrels. And I did, I we took, I took my air out.

Yeah, took your air out. We took, put it back of my holders. Took a few steps. Look where we envisioned the upcoming right behind this fur tree. He would've been five to eight yards in front of us. Broadside right there. Yeah. It would've been pretty intense. And I'm like, okay, take a few steps [01:33:00] that direction.

Look behind that fur tree just as I'm walking. There he is walking exactly how we painted it in our minds. And he just looks at me, stops and gone. And I'm just, Micah never even saw him, I don't think until he was like, he was behind and away. I saw his whale tails and I'm just like, no, that actually, yeah, that one's definitely that bigger.

That was a good one. Yeah. Cuz that one we had him, the other one was almost like dumb luck. We got lucky. They both were, but that's my oak one. I'll use that one. Yeah. Okay. What's your white tail one? I'm debating on, is it the one that I snort wheezed at this year?

No. Or the one I shouldered? It's your decision. I'd probably take back the snort, Wes. Really? Yeah. Because I think that was a higher class deer. Not that it matters. He was pretty badass. He was a good deer. He was beautiful. Yeah. Taking back the No. You [01:34:00] did explain to our listeners what this feeling has happened.

What happened? Me and Nathan, we were actually hunting together the night before. This goes back into the trail camera of pictures, the night before I was getting pictures of this new Oh, new deer. So your lifetime regret would be from this year, huh? I don't know about Lifetime, but that's the one that most recent, I say regret, but lifetime.

Yeah. Most fresh in his mind. Yeah. Most fresh in his mind. I got the most, I got stings. I got a ton of 'em. Really? That's why I've done messed up a lot, but I haven't shot one with my bow in quite a while, so I'm itching to get one. But me and Nathan were hunting. He's hunting probably 60 yards away from me.

I'm over my food plot, but I was getting pictures of this deer the night before and I'm like, I gotta go after him. So we went out the next morning. It's breaking daylight. I don't know how long we were in the stand, but it was well into the morning. I looked behind me and. I heard a little something, I'm like, Hey, there's deer.

And then it moves his head and I could tell it was that buck and he [01:35:00] was walking away. So me not knowing that he had a dough with him, I snort wheezed thinking that would get him to come in Then look, he keeps on walking, but then the dough comes and she circles this big brush patch of full of crap that you can't see and she skirts the edge of my food plot, which is about 40 yards.

And he, I was thinking sweet, he's gonna do the same thing cuz he's on her tail. He takes the little trail on the outside of my food plot and just is not within bow range, he's threw crap and stuff. And then he got in between me and Nathan. He didn't give either of us a shot, but then he finally figured out that something was off.

He kept on looking into the food plot and so he was thinking something was there and there was nothing there. And I think it just weirded him out and he took off. Yeah, I'd take back the snort. We you would take back doing the snort wes. Yeah. Would you have grounded? No. First Or just shut? [01:36:00] I should have shut up.

Just let 'em do it. If I wouldn't have shut up. And that dough, probably assuming the dough would've done the same thing it would've been a chip shot. Yeah. Then that would've been a hell of a deer. Yeah. And would've and have been awesome. Cuz we were together. Together. That've been really cool. Yeah.

It's Cause I've would've, the shoulder shots heard, I would've heard your, we were close enough together. I would've heard your shot. Oh, for sure. Yeah. You definitely would've heard it. You probably would've seen the shot, honestly. If I would've known, maybe. I've been looking. But yeah. The shoulder shot sucks.

It does, but those things happen. Pat Whitetail regret? The very first buck I shot down in that waterway on Andy's dad's. I sh we should have waited longer to go look for him or taken less people to go look for him. Did you not recover that day? Oh, I know what you one you're talking about.

Yeah. No, I attracted, bumped him out of his bed, tracked him across one field into a waterway, across another field, and we bumped him [01:37:00] outta that bed and never found, unfortunately, it's another one. She'll wait until the next morning. It was a blood bath. It was starting to rain too, wasn't it? Yeah, it started to raining.

It was an absolute blood bath until we got into the cornfield to the beans you could follow. It caught no waterway. Blood everywhere. We followed all the way across the ridge of standing beans. Yep. And then it beded, we found its last bed and not a drop of blood after the bed. But the bed looked like he poured a five gallon bucket out in it.

Really? He got up and left it and we don't know. It was just gone. He laid on, it didn't pass through. He laid on the side hurt side that was hurt and it collided crazy how tough they're dude, just to, and then, cuz he broke the arrow off running through the timber, if I remember right.

The deer like, ran past the tree and it broke the arrow off. And it was bloody and penetration. He was dead. Yeah, he was. Yeah. That deer died at somewhere. We just don't know where. That sucks unfortunately, because we looked for him that night till[01:38:00] we grid searched around the last bed.

And I went back the next day and looked for, I called in sick to work. And looked for four or five hours and never found him. That's a legitimate excuse too, cuz I'm sick. My heart's sick. You gotta do your dual legit. Yeah. Due diligence. Yeah, that's it. Did we get 'em all? No, me and him still gotta do our right deal.

Guess what mine is my white tail one. Your regret. My Yeah. My If I could have a do-over the one I had to pull out of a lake. Shoot. No, I, he's dead. I got him. Oh. Shooting baby deer that's hanging on the wall. Nah.

So I'm glad you guys can't guess it cuz you guys usually just nail it. Yep. That's what it is. No, I, it's scorpion or whatever. It's reptile. Reptile. Damn it Micah. You know me too good buddy. You know me too. Good. It's reptile. I wish I would've figured him out. Like it was so damn close. I knew he was here.

It was every damn [01:39:00] day. I could have had a deer done before October. That'd really cool. Like it suck. Can you? Sucks imagine, huh? It sucks. No, cuz then you're just playing with house money. I would've killed 160 some inch deer by October. But you would've been board. You don't hunt. I've done that. I've made that mistake one time.

And I have killed a deer in like mistake. Yes. But in the second week of archery season, so it's like I was still in September. And I killed a deer. I did not get to hunt October. I did not get to hunt the first part of November. All of you guys were hunting, all of you guys were having all this fun shit happen.

Yeah, but the difference is I wasn't killing that deer any time. But then he ne hindsight. Yeah. I mean he never came back. Yeah. So it was just, and I get, and knowing the fact that the next couple years he's now gone, he's not coming back. So he's either been killed or. Just his range moved somewhere.

[01:40:00] But that was my biggest regret cuz that deer was, would've, I'm assuming, special. I would assume he would've been the biggest deer I've ever killed. And he just gave you like, he gave so many beautiful pictures to the camera I entire summer, so Yeah. Reptile, rest in peace, buddy. Wherever you are. Oh geez.

Andy. Andy. What you got, bud? Does it have to be a whitetail? No.

Not an elk again though. No. Like a whitetail. I don't know. I've had a lot of or kill everything I shoot at. No, it definitely doesn't. Far from it. Piss excellence. I I have a lot of stupid shit I've tried on whitetail that have just not worked, so it's hard for me to pick like one for a whitetail being born.

If I could give like this one, I guess it hurts the worst. And it's not whitetail. I'm ignoring you. I thought it was a good one. It's coyote hunting, and this year I knew this dude was gonna bring up coyote hunting. This year [01:41:00] in the the Midwest tournament you would've got, first I missed the winning coyote and I want that shot back because it was a chip shot that I rushed.

And if I could have slowed myself down, we could have had the outright title. That one that one hurt me because I expected that. I cannot believe you used a missing a coyote. As you're, I'm telling you that was t you, that's one that, I don't know. Have what, like a hundred teams taken first Would've been pretty an outright first.

Would've pretty sweet. You did first. Yeah. Tied. But an outright first would've been, I don't know. Pretty sweet. Yeah. I get you. That's nice. And if I was the only one that pulled the trigger, so I was one of the ones like if we all three would've missed. Okay, sure. But that was on me. I am the one that had the shot.

I rushed it. I, yeah. That's a difficult one to bring up too, cuz Eat Kyle Hunt long enough like you're gonna have F up. Oh for sure. Like [01:42:00] I missed a lot of kayes. That one specific kind. The first one, me and Daryl and Russell did I missed, I mean it was a double that came in. Not saying that I could have got both of 'em, but I missed one that would've put us, I think it would've, at least we would've been placed.

I forget how, what one this would end up tied with. What one? Cause we took fifth what in, what was that with four? Four. And we brought in three. So that would at least tied that if, obviously perfect world, get the double, that could've got us in a close. No. Weird is like we've all had that happen.

We never have it happen for us the other way. Of course we don't know that because the other teams, we don't know what happened. And I was getting ready to say that. The thing is like the other teams who also tied with us in Midwest talking to them, it's oh dude, we missed three or four of 'em. We had this, and this happen. Like we, I missed, our team missed one that day. Yeah. The team that won, they missed four or five. And that's what we have happen is like Micah and Darrell and Russell, theirs when me and Daryl and John were in we missed that [01:43:00] one. Yeah. And that would've at least give us a fighter's chance.

Cause that was a bad day. Yeah. Ended up not being the case. Midwest Tournament Yeah. Cuz no, that not, this killed not this year. The one where we had those two that we couldn't shoot and that would've put us, they gave, that would've gave us first because we made an ethical decision not to take a shot because there were houses.

Oh yeah. Behind that. Yeah. Like I thought you were talking about the ones that we they're 800 yards. We need a dial up. No, those are just, yeah. No, that wasn't, but to be truthful, so the explicit tournament, we missed enough cots to win that one outright too. Yeah. I don't, because that's when Austin's scope was jacked up.

You ever calling a triple, only one go off, one gun, go off outta four guys? Can't say I've done that. We've called in a triple and the gun went off, but it didn't do nothing. That's you talking about the couple? Yeah. Yeah. We only had one gun, three dogs. The person, zero, [01:44:00] the person that was calling.

And more or less, I won't wanna say backup shooter, but not the primary shooter was the only gun to go off out of four people. Austin deal. Austin forgot to take his off safety. Karen jammed a shell and his and it didn't go off my gun malfunctioned and eighties was the only one to go off. Did you kill something I missed?

No. No. He missed. Nice. I shot over it there. We all have regrets. 300 yards that, yeah. If we weren't a minute 47 into this, or an hour 47 into this, I would ask what your biggest achievement would be. But I want to go home. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's been a really good episode for the next one. Micah brought the hard hitting questions.

Controversial. Yeah. Questions We did really well done. Good job. Thank you. Talked about arch. We talked about a little bit of everything, man. So that was a good spring BS session, and we barely talked about turkeys, but we should say good luck to everybody because this come [01:45:00] out close to turkeys. This will come out, let's see here, April 20th.

Yeah, it'll be April. By the time this comes out, I'm pretty sure. Oh, I think we got another week or so before. Yeah, Turkey season starts, so it'll be soon. I think it's end of April. I'll just tell you real quick. Turkey season April 17th. Excellent. It'll be soon after this comes out, so good luck to everybody going out and chasing the thunder chickens.

If my son keeps after me, I'll see if I can. April 1st starts youth season. Yep. Does it really? April 1st and second is Youth Turkey. Ooh. Guess who's old enough? Blake. Leray. Uhoh. Can she shoulder a 12 gauge? She going to, she gonna learn today. You gonna learn today. We're not gonna practice. We're just gonna, you put that bead right there on that red head because she ain't, you know why that's the best way to do it?

Five pounds? Because she don't know what she don't know. Yeah. She barely broke 40. Okay. She could ride in a boost and boost her seat down. It's only gonna hurt the one time. If you make her shoot it, she's gonna be scared of it. That's what happened in Brinley. Yeah. That's [01:46:00] got Scared a good point.

Yeah. You don't feel it when you're hunting. That's true. You never do. No, she probably would though. She, you better have her and Blakely took off like where'd she go? That three inch will physically take her off her feet.

Don't worry, we'll get you. I got a sling in the truck. It's about the memories. I don't have any anymore. I hit my head on a rock. I have a concussion. Dad. I ran a Turkey, honey, didn't they?

But did she kill it? That's all that matters.

Practice before you go out there. Kids. Yeah. Always pattern your gun. All right, let's get outta here. All right. See you boys. See ya.

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