Calling Turkeys with A.M. Calls

Show Notes

When you meet a man named "Bobcat" you better pay attention to what he has to say. On this episode of the Oklahoma Outdoors Podcast, John is joined by Keith "Bobcat" Williams of A.M. Calls. Keith makes a unique type of turkey call that uses petrified wood in place of your typical slate or glass pot call. Not only is the call a beautiful piece of art, but it makes realistic turkey noises that you have to hear to believe. An added advantage to the petrified wood is that it dries quickly if it gets wet, so they can be a great option for those misty days or spring mornings of heavy dew. Keith and John discuss the whole line of A.M. Calls, including the adjustable striker Keith offers. The striker adjusts to give the calls different sounds, or simply retracted to fit in your pocket or vest easier. 

In an unexpected bonus to this episode, Keith also talks about how predator numbers are affecting turkey numbers across the nation. Keith spent several years as a professional trapper (thus the nickname) back in the 80's, and talks about how the decline in fur prices also led to the decline of interest in trappers. Keith doesn't claim to be the best turkey hunter, but throughout the conversation his knowledge of woodsmanship really shines through, and you may just want to pay attention when ol Bobcat has something to say.

Show Transcript

[00:00:00] Hey guys and gals, welcome to the Oklahoma Outdoors Podcast, brought to you by Arrowhead Land Company. Here you'll be educated, entertained, and equipped to get more out of your outdoor experience. So hold on tight because here we go.

What is up Podcast land. Welcome to the Oklahoma Outdoors Podcast. I, as usual am your host, Mr. John Husk. And thank you so much for tuning in today, man, I hope, I really hope that everybody was able to get out to the Backwood show this last weekend. It was a fantastic show. Went and spent most of the day on Saturday out there.

Let me tell you, there was a crowd. It was awesome. It was very encouraging to see not just for the vendors that were there, but also just for. For hunting [00:01:00] and fishing in general for the state of Oklahoma in general, for the sportsmen and women of this state. It's just very encouraging to see how much participation we had out there at the Backwood show this year.

So I had a heck of a time got to, hang out with the guys from Arrowhead Land Company. Got to meet several previous podcast guest. Got to meet some old friends and and make some new friends. So I had a fantastic time. Really took my time going through all the booths, talking to everybody.

Got to meet a lot of great people. Got to meet some companies and folks that I'm gonna have on the show. So that's always good. And just, spreading the joy to you guys. Like I said, hope you made it out. Like I said, also lots of really cool booths. I learned some things while I was there.

Found some cool products and not only was the Backwood show going on, there was also a gun show that I snuck into for a little bit. And then I believe there was also a. Car thing going on I didn't actually go to it, but I heard a lot of revving engines and things, and I think I remember from last year that there [00:02:00] was also a car show that weekend.

So anyway, busy time at the fairgrounds. Anytime, I really don't make it to Oklahoma City that much. It's just, it's not super close to where I live. And yeah, but anytime we get to go there I really enjoy it. I really do. And man, watching it. Grow and become what's come, become today is pretty awesome.

So yeah, great time in the city. Ate some good food. Like I said, talked to people, hung out, met some great folks, and y'all are going to reap the benefits of that, whether you made it or not, because like I said, several of those people are gonna end up coming on the podcast. Yeah, great time there.

That's about all I did last weekend. Went to the show hung out with my wife and baby a little bit. My wife has been super, super busy the last few weeks. And so we got to spend some time Saturday evening and then most of the day Sunday together. So that was really special and so yeah, always look forward to that man.

It's continuing to rain, been raining. I really want to get some burning done on our place [00:03:00] even though it's probably still a little bit too early, but we're getting close to the time to do all the controlled burns. Got my fire line set, but it is just a swamp out there. So I'm actually.

Heading out to the ranch this coming weekend. My wife is leaving on a spring break trip. She's taken a bunch of youth to New Orleans to spread the gospel out there. And pray for her. Pray for all the kiddos. And so me, and me and little Halle, me and my baby girl, we're gonna head to the ranch on Saturday.

Getting some things ready for something that I have coming up at the end of March early April that I'm not quite ready to share with you guys. But got a fun event coming up that I'm getting prepared for. So gonna head out there, make sure everything's ready. Probably I'm looking at the date right now.

Probably going to do my first real shed hunt if I have time. Not sure I'm gonna have time yet, but if I have time, I'm gonna do my first real shed hunt. The bucks that I had showing up on my camera, I'm not sure if the camera quit working or what. I haven't been getting any pictures from that camera.

I didn't replace the batteries [00:04:00] last time I was up there, but I thought the batteries were good. But yeah so anyway, yeah, not getting any pictures at all really, but I am guessing by the time this weekend comes around, There should be some antlers on the ground. So getting ready to do my first real shed hunt, like I said, hopefully if I have time it's gonna be fun too.

Cause like I said, I'm gonna have my daughter with me. She's eight months old as of yesterday, I think. And so gonna take the backpack, strap her to me and do some walking. So really looking forward to that. Looking forward to getting her out. My goal is to take as many cute pictures of her as possible to send to my wife while she's away to make her jealous.

And so that's what I have planned with her coming up. And next week I'm gonna be all on my own. My wife leaves on. Saturday morning, super early and doesn't get home until Friday of next week. So I'm gonna have little girl all to myself the entire week while working a full-time job. So we're gonna see how that goes.

Got lots of babysitters lined up. Lots of help. My mom my wife's mom, my wife's grandma, yeah, pray for [00:05:00] me as well as my wife's away, because it's gonna be, it's gonna be a time. Let's see here. What else? I'm trying to think of anything else, guys. I'm still dying to get my boat out in the water.

I've not taken it outta storage yet. Like I said, a big part of it is not necessarily how busy I've been, but how busy my wife has been which makes it just hard for me to break away with the baby and everything. But need to get the boat out on the water. Definitely. Man, walking around the Backwood show, seeing all the fishing booths, all the fishing guides, it makes me really want to get out there.

Ran into the guys from SNS Guide service that I went crappy fishing with last year. So it was cool catching up. Les was not there, Les was at his show, but his son was. And so it was great hanging out with them. And I'm telling you guys, I got the fishing bug. I just don't have the ability to get out there and do any fishing.

So yeah, that's that's my long rambly intro. I think that's pretty much all I got for you guys in this intro. At the time I'm doing this, I have not actually recorded my episode that I'm just about to drop with you guys, but I got home from work a little bit early, so I figured I'd get a [00:06:00] jump on it.

Yes, I have not recorded the episode, but I'm sure it's going to be a good one. I have the guest lined up and everything. We are gonna be talking today to Mr. Keith Williams of a and m calls. And so I, this is one of the guys that I met at the Backwood Show, and he has a very unique, really awesome Turkey call that we're gonna be talking about.

And I don't know what all we're gonna get into, if I'm being honest. Have some questions lined up. I'm sure it's gonna be centered mostly around Turkey calls. So hope you guys enjoy it. Turkey season's right around the corner man, yeah, pay attention to this. Order one of these calls and get ready for Turkey season.

So that's gonna do it, we're gonna get a quick word from our sponsors and then we're gonna jump into the episode with Mr. Keith Williams right after. If you're anything like me, you probably dream of owning your own piece of hunting or recreational land someday. If that's you, give one of the hardworking agents a Arrowhead Land company, a call.

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The mission of Bravado Wireless is to keep you connected no matter where you are. Visit bravado or check them out at one of their retail locations. Bravado Wireless. The power of connection. Hey everybody, welcome to today's show, and today I'm talking to Mr. Keith Williams. How you doing Keith?

Man, I'm doing fine. That's awesome. I gotta ask you real quick before we kick this [00:09:00] thing off, I'm looking at your business card right here and right on your business card it says Keith Bobcat Williams. Is there something to that. Oh man that's a great story right there. Back I was a pretty big trapper back in the day in the eighties.

I got really good at it and I was catching a lot of stuff and I was making some money at it. And I was into it really big when the fur prices bottomed out and I went to a first sale in Mal Arkansas and they offered me $6 for great big old giant bobcats. And I just wouldn't swallow it and, Brought him back home and got the urge to make a fur coat.

And it took me a couple of years to get it all done. But one of my friends, first time he saw it, he said, pointed his finger, said Bobcat Williams, and it stuck. So there it is. Awesome. I love it. That's a great start. Great start. Awesome. Keith, real quick before we start talking about Turkey calls, why don't you just tell everybody a little bit about.

I've been a hunter and an outdoorsman all my life. I was a serious kid. I always [00:10:00] wanted real guns, real nice, real hatchets, all that kind of stuff. Grew up, I'm just a country boy. My hometown Junction City, Arkansas, Louisiana. We got about 14 or 1500 people here with one red light. It's pretty much been about that same size for years and years.

I got, Turkey hunting's, not really my thing. . I've been a carpenter all my life, and when I started working on calls in 2012, my carpenter skills guided me, and I realized really fast that Turkey column making is carpentry. . And I think that to know, I just. I took, I, I took off.

, it was easy for me to, it was easy for me to come up with some, I say I shouldn't say easy, but I did come up with some stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Trial and error. Trial and errors. A lot of it. It always is. And if anybody tells you any it describes it any other kind of way, they're might be stretching it a little bit, gotcha. All right so you [00:11:00] have AM calls and AM calls, and real quick, before we get into, get into the weeds, why don't you just describe the call a little bit and what it looks like and what it's made us. A lot of your traditional.

I started out making your traditional pot call. Everybody calls it a pot call. That was my first call and since that time I've designed other types of calls. I designed a little call that's got multiple birds in it, and a guy from Illinois called me one day. I couldn't think of a name for it.

And he said, Bobcat, how'd you get all those hands in that? , so I named it Box of hens and some, somebody gives you something really nice, you better take it, . So that was aim. It stuck. Basically I do, I still do have a pot call, but it's not my best seller now I've got a box of hens.

I've got a design that's steel patent and pending, it's got two striking surfaces on the same site. fully got awesome sound, so I'm not, I'm not just let myself [00:12:00] settle with one product. , I developed testable striker. That's probably my best product. When you ch it, it allows you to change the length of that striker.

It lets you adjust to your pressure and your grip and everything, and it works on all calls, all friction calls, and it's just awesome. Everybody that's ever put their hands on. , they just loved it. , my main component is Petrified Wood and the story about that, you can read it on my website.

It was really an accident, to tell you the truth. I mean it, some things happened that way, , just a relative made me, just insisted on me taking some petrified wood home with me and it sat in my yard for a couple of years and came in one day I'd been doing some tile work and I came in one day with my tile saw.

I just got the curiosity bug hit me and I started sawing it up and making tabletops out of it and knife handles. And first thing a friend of mine comes by and he has the idea. [00:13:00] He just sprang up the idea about trying it. It might make a Turkey to surface and. So it eventually made its way there.

That's what got me started. And what I've really done though, I've designed my calls to play with petrified wood. . So I didn't take just your average pot call that everybody else makes, your traditional style call. I break the rules every step. I broke the traditional style of building a pothole every kinda way you could until I came up with my own little.

. Yeah. And they're beautiful calls for sure. And man, like the idea to use petrified wood to, it just never even would've occurred to me. Like I, I wouldn't have even thought that was possible. Oh, sometimes things just happen. , my friend came by my shop in 2010 and we mentioned it.

He mentioned it. We talked about it. He came by in 2011 and we talked about it some more. And in 2012 when he came by, I just dropped [00:14:00] everything I was doing and made a crude circle and grabbed some five minute epoxy and popped and back. And we went to the patent attorney the next week. It just happened.

It's just. . It's just, I, looking back, it's like a, maybe a little bit of a dream to it, , it's been sitting out there all that time and nobody's ever tried it. It drives in 15 minutes if it gets or 10 minutes usually, and it just got, it's got its own sound.

It's as different as. , petrified Woods. A slate is as different as there is as much difference as there is some glass to slate or aluminum to slate, own thing. . Yeah. And one thing I like, I you were nice enough to give me one at the show and I'm sitting here looking at it.

One thing that's nice is just the size of it, it's a lot smaller than your normal call you box of hens, don't you think? That's what I get. Yes, sir. Yeah. Uhhuh, , that call, I've really sold a lot of those calls and. , I underestimated this Turkey not being a big Turkey hunter.[00:15:00] I'll tell you, Turkey hunters don't share info very much.

They like to keep a little bit on the flat side, Uhhuh, , uhhuh . That's been kinda hard for me to overcome, but it's, and as time has gone on, I'm, I'm having people now, it, it's, starting to get out there a little bit. I'm having people walk up to my show and, really other call makers actually, which is a great compliment, . So I'm coming out of the, coming out of the dark a little bit, you might say after 10 years. Yeah. . Gotcha. Yeah. After. Yeah. All right. I think most of the people listening probably know what a, traditional slate call looks like. But why don't you just for the people listening, why don't you describe your box of hens here.

A box of hens is approximately, let's just say it's on a two to three proportion. If it were two inches wide, it would be three inches long. And it's closed on three sides, so it's open on the end and you can turn that thing like a megaphone [00:16:00] sorta, and throw that sound out there.

. It's just, I'll be honest with you I've. Probably have missed a lot of opportunities to, to get some great footage. If I'd have had a camera set up where I could have just turned it on, because the look on people's eyes when they hear that thing. , I've had everything from one eyebrow raise up an inch to two eyebrows, raise up an inch to, it's really got a really.

I really hit something with that design because it doesn't matter if I put glass or slate or aluminum or petrified wood in that box of hands. It sounds good. , and that's something about a call, because you normally don't get that. Yeah. You just don't get it. . I got you. Now, as far as striking this thing, is there a big difference between using this and your regular slate call?

No, there is, and that's a good question. Petrified wood is rough. You got to remember. Remember, [00:17:00] even if you take a piece of wood, and it's a lot of times, even when it's gone through a planter and been take, made smooth. If you run your fingernails hard across the grain, a lot of times it still can even feel a little bit rough.

So when flat tree petrifies and turns to stone, it keeps the grain of the wood. It, can see it, and it basically stays in there. It doesn't ever come out. So it's a, it's much different from sleep because you don't have to put a lot of pressure on there. , you get , you sit on my call and just float around.

if you'll, you just float around with almost no pressure, and there's a lot of, there's a lot of pretty darn good collars that actually, struggle with it sometimes because they're so accustomed to when you hit a slate a lot of the times you'll hit it, come down with pressure, and then lift off.

And with the petrified wood it's just more of a travel and a scratch type thing. So it is very, it's very easy to use [00:18:00] cause of the pressure situation. And it ruin, it ruins a lot of hunters. They get to where they don't even want to use slate anymore. , it's, , it's really easy to use and you don't have to sand it and clean it very often.

Just every once in a while it will fill up with debris and it's awesome. I'm gonna tell you. Yeah. Yeah. It really and let's say you've been hitting it for a while and you need to rough it up a little bit, how do you suggest. If you now here's another little catch. SL is quite consistent in its hardness unless you get the green slate of the red slate or whatever.

It's sometimes a little softer, but the dark black, the blackish gray slade is normally pretty consistent with petrified wood varies Every now and then, I get one that's a little extra slick. and . What I do is, of course, I can hit one, one lick almost, and I, or sometimes reach down and touch it and I know what I'm dealing with.

But if somebody has a piece that starts to [00:19:00] get polished off and starts to get a little slick, they just get a little rougher with it, with some 60 or 80 grit sandpaper and sand it with , I need to get a little bit more physical with it. It's all, that's all, you have to scratch it back up a little.

Gotcha. Gotcha, man. I gotta ask this question and if you don't wanna give away your secret, I understand. No, but where do you get all this petrified wood? And if you follow the Arkansas, Louisiana line going east and west, we have a lot of petrified wood in our ground.

and there, there are people who have tried to dig ponds and they dig up pieces, half big as a car and all kinds of stuff. , it's a lot more common than one might think. We don't in South Arkansas and my part of north Louisiana here, we don't have our farmers like we once did.

So the grounds not till quite as often. But you can get on some of these hills in our area and you could find it, you can find it. and there's places down in Texas where it's just everywhere. It's not [00:20:00] absolute. It's not uncommon to find petrified. Gotcha. Yeah. Gotcha. And Arizona had a lot of it too, by the way.

What was that? Arizona has happens to have a lot of Oh, interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Catch it. I can see the conditions being there. I just don't see the trees being and you know what, as Mother Nature petrified wood, it took a certain, it took a certain type of environment and the minerals, everything had to be just right.

And Mother Nature a lot of times just didn't petrified piece the size of your finger. Mother Nature petrified the entire tree. Over time it it'll get broken up and stuff as the ground shifts and freezing and thawing and all that kind of stuff, but where there are areas around here where you can't even hardly stick a rod in the ground because the petro wood is almost solid.

Gotcha. Yeah. Gotcha. All right. Very cool. . Very [00:21:00] cool. Now when I walked up to your booth the other day, you were talking to a gentleman and showing him the call and everything and he had one of your box of hens and I heard you say that, it's a little bit quieter of a call and Yeah.

Oh, now that, that's I'm glad you brought that up. , a lot of the Turkey calls that you see, and I'm not gonna sit here and badmouth anybody's brought up cause any Turkey call can kill a Turkey. . That's a fact. And turkeys don't sound so perfect. They don't a lot of times, like the great competition callers that you see, they may not sound just like that. So one of the qualities that my call has is how soft it will play. Now, if you get, if as you get on down with some pressure, it will get plenty loud. It'll, it will also cause so soft that you and I couldn't hear it 50 yards apart or even 40.

, but the bird may be able to hear that two, 300 yards or farther. . But a lot of calls [00:22:00] will not they might get soft, but they don't sound like a real bird when they get soft and, because I have made my cause a good bit thinner than most, EV most, pretty much everybody. , I have got a very lightweight call.

It's very, it's thin, but it's strong and it's, it will really, it plays more like a guitar than a, than something that, like a rattle box if you wanna use that. . But it's, it is, my, my calls are very unique and I, every, and I have some more, couple of more designs I'm working on. and I'm gonna stay with the lighter weight product.

I do believe I'm on, I'm concentrating on that as I move on in the future. Yeah. I, as I was sitting here playing with it and looking at it and thinking about that comment, I thought of kind of two good situations that could be good. One, when you first sit. and you're going to make your first call.

There may be a bird close that you don't know about. Yes. And that quiet call might be enough to make him, sound off. Yes. Or kind in, [00:23:00] in the opposite situation. Maybe you've been calling at a bird for a while and he's not committing, he's hung up out there on a fence or a creek bed or something, hit this thing.

Maybe it makes it sound like, hands going away. Maybe it makes things like farther or just a different hand altogether. Maybe there's more than one hand over there. So I definitely there's no doubt you're onto something there because , if that bird, a lot of times if that bird is gobbled at you, it knows where you are.

, their hearing is just phenomenal and all, A lot of people, I'm afraid, call too much. , I just think they, a lot of guys that they put a lot of confidence in their calling. Maybe they're, maybe they are good callers. They'll live and die by the. And duck hunters do it.

Duck hunters will tend to want to call too much. And I just, the show at Oklahoma, I had a, it wasn't, it was a show where I had a little bit more time to talk to some people and spend some time with them. And I had gentleman there who has a thousand acres to hunt on, and it's just full [00:24:00] of birds and he couldn't kill a.

and I just said, look man, I, he told me, he said, look, I'm not that good a hunter and I don't know what I'm doing. And I said tell me what you're doing and I'll see if I can help you some. And he was making a couple of real big mistakes, like getting in the timber when he did, really didn't need to, he was fooling around accidentally and getting up under at birds, which is not good.

And I just told him he was calling way too loud and probably a little too much. I know that guy's gonna kill a good one this year. I can't wait to hear from him. But, it's just, it's, they can just hear so much better. That's why you can't walk around with cans rattling in your bag and, and this and that, because they can just hear it so far and they know that.

Out of. , , it's, they don't run around screaming all the time, so they're very after they do their little thing in the morning, those woods can get mighty quiet very fast. . , . Let's say somebody's, comes up to your booth and maybe they're a beginner, Turkey collar or something, kinda like you were just talking [00:25:00] about what would you recommend them get? Maybe a box of hens or would you rather Oh my box than get maybe the, oh, my box of hens is, I designed that call thinking about ladies and kids. Strictly I designed it strictly from a hand size perspective. I. It is just, it's perfect for it's a great call for anybody but especially, the teenagers and even smaller than that, I've had some seven and eight year olds.

I I had several. Under the years of eight, get calls out at Oklahoma City this past weekend. . So yeah, that box of hens is and the fact that you don't have to put all that pressure on it, you just travel on it a little bit. And when you wanna put on that thing I tell the kids to just put a little weight on that thing and make believe you're picking a guitar screen.

So you play the thing, you pick it, so you play it actually more like a guitar than you do anything else. and it is perfect for [00:26:00] beginners and it's owners also. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And then you mentioned earlier your adjustable striker. I wanna make sure we talk about that a little bit. Oh. Describe it and the benefits of it and why you might need one.

I went to a show in South Carolina a few years ago when I walked up to a table. They had a real beautiful setup and he had a corner booth and he. Maybe 20 calls out there, maybe 30. But the most and all the rest was strikers of all sizes, all prices, all everything. So I'm on the way back, all the way back.

I'm thinking I'm thinking of adjustable striker and, and I couldn't get a mental picture of it, but eventually it just popped in my head and then I ha I started trying to make sure. What components I had to use and all that, but it, I explain it like this to people when they come up.

If you bought a $500 striker, let's just say you, you bought [00:27:00] one, you're gonna have to sand the end of it after you use it. And every time you sand it, you're taking off to us a little to when you recondition it. And after one may, almost two years, guaranteed you're gonna have taken an eighth of an inch off.

and that's all it takes to change that sound. That's one of the customable Striker is so awesome. I mean it is. It is awesome. . Gotcha. And I heard you talking again. I think the same gentleman, you're talking about. You could, adjust it, find the spot you like and make a mark there.

But then you could adjust it to get different sounds. But you still know where your locked in spot is. Sure. If I get that thing in mass production one day, I might figure out a way to put little graduated marks. On the shaft of the striker, but you just get out there again, everybody's gonna be a little different.

So you just get out in your yard or out in the woods, tune that thing to where you like it, it just get, when you mark it around the base of it [00:28:00] there, where the shaft goes up into the top of it, it just gives you a reference point. That way you don't, you're not intimidated at all about moving it back and forth a little.

Yeah. That, but we with our hearing allows us to hear about every quarter. Inch difference in, in the length of the striker and the bird is just for him. He can hear just a minute amount. It's, I didn't, I'll be honest with you, when I designed it, I didn't know it was gonna work so well.

worked that well. Yeah. One definitely, probably not why you designed it that babe way, but one handy feature is, you can unscrew it and shrink it down, put it in your pocket, you, and then when you get where you're going, you can, take it back out. I've had a lot of people mention that.

That is, that's that is correct. You sure can. I've even had some guys that. that have taken and taken their call and drilled a little bitty hole on the back, on both sides and put a little string through it and tied the striker to the call. Cause [00:29:00] they didn't wanna lose it. . . Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. Talk about, I'm sure it's, Kind of the same as most most slate calls, but talk about the different sounds you can make with your call.

It can anything you make with a slate call can you make with these, yeah pretty much. Let me, I don't even, I don't, here I am doing this interview with you now. I don't even have one with me. , you can pretty much, the only thing that my call does not do is it does not have a super, super loud.

but it will cut real loud when you put press. You don't ever know what you're gonna get out of a call. And that's the only, if you want to call that a shortcoming, it still has a Yelp that's plenty loud, but it just it will not screen like one of your larger pot calls. It will not do that.

Gotcha. That, but that's, other than that it probably has a it has pers that are unlike any anything. That most any pot call's gonna produce even [00:30:00] my own calls, I my own pot calls. I can't make 'em sound like that box of hints. I cannot. Gotcha, gotcha. All right I got a, I got one or two kind of random questions for you that I wanna talk to, but before we move away from your call is there anything that I'm missing?

Anything you wanna let people know about it? No. I told you when we spoke, That I've asked all answered all these same questions about, I don't know, 25,000 times , but you asked pretty much about the normal things, , to Petrified Wood is just it's, I'll just put it to you like this.

If you've not, if you're sitting out there and you are saying to yourself, I wish a new product would come along, and it has came. . , you just have not heard about it. Yeah. A lot of times there are a lot of small operators like myself that have really good products, but we don't have 10 thousands of dollars to advertise.

. So there are some, there's some good products on the market and I [00:31:00] see some other cause that are really good calls that I like, but a lot of these guys may never get in the industry on a large. . Do your homework and ask other hunters. That's important.

I'm gonna start doing a little bit more Facebook advertising this next year. But if all the people that have bought a call from me would've been sharing the information, I would've already worn the skin off of my fingers. , yeah. , I understand. , I really . I understand.

Not some, somebody wanting to share because when you a turkey's not the, he's not the easiest thing to kill and especially the old bird. That's the one everybody wants. You don't want the two or three year old, you want the four or five year olds, and they're very tough to take.

It's just simple. They don't run in every day and they've heard everything. They're pretty tough. They are. They are. Absolutely. Yeah. But absolutely people around people don't go [00:32:00] around singing their praises. And I have a lot of, I have a lot of customers that come back to my booth, and every now and then somebody will walk up when I'll have 20 or 25 customers there.

And sometimes I'll look at 'em and I say, look, I didn't pay this guy to do. Oh. That still have funny looks on their faces but my calls are very unique, I'm gonna tell you. , and they're ab they're, I could pick if there were 500 people lined up using a call. I could tell you when you came to my box of hints.

Yeah. Cause it's on, it doesn't sound like anything else. I definitely look forward to using mine this spring, and if I kill a bill, big old gobbler with it, I'll be sure to send you a picture. Please do cause you're on a few . , I tell you, I had a lot of people, I had a really, I really liked the back Woods show.

It was a really good show and I had a lot of nice people who swore to me they were. Send me a photo, but I'm, I'm just gonna keep my fingers crossed [00:33:00] about that. Yeah. . Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna switch gears just a little bit. I, I didn't have this pre-planned, but when you first came on, you were talking about how you used to be a trapper.

Oh, yeah. And that, that's something that, relates to turkeys maybe even more than you realize. It's no secret that Turkey populations are hurting across most of the United States. They are. And they think a big reason for that is nest predator. and a big reason that for the nest predators is because you don't have as much trapping as you used to.

Is that, I would've, do you agree with that? I would've no doubt if that's correct. Yeah. I'm a guy out there at Oklahoma City that told me on how many pictures of raccoons he's getting on his feeders. He's just believable. He said they're more than, Yeah. We got, like in South Arkansas where I am they, when they cut our timber over, they'll cut the timber down and the clear cuts come up.

And then man, your predators are [00:34:00] just the stick as flies in there. Your bobcat. , tile and everything else. Yeah, there's no doubt nobody, almost nobody's trapping anymore or cause the hives are just worth nothing. Yeah. I did volunteer to the gentleman in the, that's the director in the state of Louisiana.

I told them that I would teach a trapping course if they needed somebody to, because I've got no doubt in my mind that it would help. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a dying, it's a few years ago I went to the dump here and there was somebody had thrown away six, five gallon buckets full of trap.

And man, I just, I know some old trappers that were probably turning over in their grave, yeah. Yeah. When when fur prices were up, like you were talking about back in the eighties, were you trapping everything? Were you raccoons and bobcats and everything? Yeah. I had one stretch.

My biggest years were 85. One, I had really gotten good at it. So like to say in 1985, I was [00:35:00] 25 years. So I was, I could run traps all day in skin animals for three hours without any problem. And 85, 86, 87 right in there. I trapped really hard. I had a stretch where I caught 275 coons in 22 nights at one.

and I've had times where I had the whole bed of my pickup truck. It was game in there and it was picking up above the bed. Yeah. So I would water, I would've water sets and predator traps. And when I went into an area I was, I would be catching a balance of animals out of there. Beaver, otter, mink, everything.

See? . Nobody does that. Yeah, I don't go around in the woods at night, but there's just no telling what you would see if you went down into some of our bottoms and turned on the light. , I could just only imagine cuz nobody coon hunts anymore. Yeah. And that's got to be, that's got to be everybody pretty much straight across the board agrees that's a large problem.

Of course, it's hard to say exactly how much of [00:36:00] a problem the Oklahoma guys were talking about. Disease. Got 'em avian flu or whatever it was. And I'm, that was a that, that didn't help any. And in Illinois here a couple years ago, they had a nat, they had a thing a year. The temperature, everything was just right.

They hatched out Nats by the buffalo, NATS by the billions, by the clouds of. , and I think it's suffocated. The, because it kills, it killed people's chickens in their yard. I think those nats hurt the Turkey population up there. Nature's nature can be cruel.

. Absolutely. And it. , it seems and I think it's more driven by Turkey numbers than fur prices. But I do feel like in the last year or two, there's been a little bit of resurgence because I think people finally realize that, somebody's gotta do something.

And so I've seen a lot more people being more interested in especially raccoons. Yes. And and like you were [00:37:00] talking about, Oklahoma, it's a ba. Everybody's got a feeder out there, or two or three or seven, whatever it is, and Yep. And that's definitely not helping.

All you're doing is just attracting more coons, making 'em healthier, helping 'em breed. And so I, I've said that myself. I sure have. . Yeah. It's here in the, in South Arkansas, I'm gonna, Right around 1981, there was a disease or something hit our hearts and they died out. We didn't have a whole lot for a couple of years.

It took three years long to make a comeback. Mother Nature will help, but Mother Nature's also very unpredictable about when you never know when. , . Yeah. But there are a lot of coons and they're all over the United States. They're the That's right. Population is outta pinnacle right now, there's no doubt.

. Yeah. For everywhere. W in a couple months we might have to do episode round two and just talk about trapping. Cause I think that'd be a good one. I would like to do, I, I've if. Walked up to me [00:38:00] and just right outta the blue said, Bobcat. What are your professional ad? I would as far as being an outdoorsman I'd say I'm a professional trapper.

And even though I don't do it anymore, you, it's amaz. It's just so much fun. And you're out there at a time of the year when there's not hardly anybody else in the woods. Sometime you're the only one out there and that's pretty rare. The woods, the ATVs have made the woods get a lot.

Yeah. Woods aren't big like they used to be. . So you can get, you, you're on a lease somewhere, you're gonna have a hard time going where there's not a ATV trail within 300 yards. . So it's, the ATV has changed the whole outlook of the honey situation quite a bit. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I can. Absolutely. But it was fun to walk. You have the right to the best wireless service. Bravado Wireless provides the best mobile, wireless, high speed internet, latest devices and customer service at prices. You feel good about [00:39:00] Bravado Wireless strives to put these values first and offer you the best wireless service available, see what they have to or one of their retail locations in Eastern.

Let Bravado Wireless connect you to your family, friends, and business partners all over the world. Bravado, wireless, the power of connection. We're coming up on time here pretty quick, but I gotta ask you one more question. Sure. If I'm sure you got one deep down in there. I know you said you're not a huge Turkey hunter, but you got got a, I've got a youngster I'm gonna take this year locally and I to try to take a bird for him.

I'll be honest, and I don't you, when you read my website, you look at my website, I say I'm not that much of a Turkey hunter. It's . It's ironic that I'm making Turkey calls. It really is. Cause I know so much more about other types of honey, especially deer. But it's just, it was, it was the hand that fate dealt me and.[00:40:00]

I'm enjoying it so much. I don't even, I don't even know how to describe it to the audience. I'm, I've got a lot of youngsters that have taken their first bird with my cause, and I've got some people who took their last bird and they've passed on, , I call I'm getting to share a little bit of people's lives, and I'm gonna be honest with you it's quite awesome.

It really is good. I'm very humble. good. Yeah. I want to hear your number one go-to Turkey tip. If somebody's listening to this and, maybe it's their first season, maybe it's their 20th season what's one good Turkey hunting tip? You got Boris, the greatest thing. That's not.

The greatest thing about it all is it it'd be a combination of little things, but make it, make challenge yourself to take an older bird, but just don't call so much. Don't over recall. That's probably the most the biggest mistake made most of the time is, if, when, if [00:41:00] you make an, I don't care what you do, if you hoot or whatever you do, or you make a little soft yelp and you hear that bird gobble way out there and you say, wow, I wonder, could he hear me?

Yeah, he could. . . Yeah. He hurt you. And just, and you mentioned this earlier, and I, here's another thing that's very important is if you're hunting what you call hunting blind. If you didn't put a bird to roost and you're just walking out there somewhere, why? Why call loud?

Because the bird might be 60, 70 yards from you in a tree, and you just didn't happen to spook it, and you would never know it. And if you call really? , it, it can it, it can increase your chances, first of all, on making a mistake. Cause I don't care who you are. And I've, I've built 13 or 14,000 calls in the last 10 years, but I still boo on one, . So that's I tell people this if you're calling ability is equal to a pair of twos, Play a pair of two. Don't [00:42:00] try to play a ace pair of ACEs. Yeah that's way. Describe it. That's a great tip. I love that saying, I've never heard that before. I like that a lot. But do what you can comfortably do if you can put and per do that.

, if you can solve Yelp, do that. Don't try play the pair of tubes that you've got. Don't try to turn those tubes into ACEs. That's my. That's my little saying and I, my original little saying, and most people can relate to that if they've ever played cards, . That's right. That's right.

I'm way more likely to have those twos than those ACEs when I play well really Will a bird hunting is a, you're not gonna win the calling contest with the bird. , you're flirting with the. . It's the large part of the time. It's a flirtatious game. It's a hard to get game, especially after the first weekend of season when they get called out a lot.

From then on, it's all a flirtation game, so you gotta learn how to flirt. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. [00:43:00] I like it, man. I feel like I asked for one tip and got about three in there. That's perfect. It's hard to give out one thing, but Oh, yeah. No, that wasn't a complaint. . Not just playing within your means that would that that that's a, that's very important to any hunter, any Turkey hunter. Yeah. Patient. Throw it in there somewhere. . That's right. Yeah, that's, I didn't get, that's where I sh I didn't talk to you long enough to figure out what kinda hunter you are oh, , my patience is definitely not my strong suit, but I'm working on it.

I finally called in a good bird last year and was, that top that taught me a lot about patience. But yeah. Yeah, Bobcat if somebody's listening to this and they're like, man, I have to get one of these calls. Don't you tell me where to get it. My website is You can just Google me.

I'm all over the internet. You can Google Keith Bobcat Williams or AM calls I, [00:44:00] you can find me. I'm not hard to find. I'm all over the internet. After 10 years I'm starting to be somebody, . Yeah. I just and I'll, here's one more thing I wanna say before we get off the air.

Uhhuh I've had a lot of opportunities to give up. At this because I, it's, I've had a lot of doors slammed in my face, but I just haven't, and I just want , that, that's good advice to all, any young person out there. You, a lot of times good things don't happen. You got to really stick with it.

. Yeah. That is, some people take hardheaded, but that's not necessarily . Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Keith, I have really enjoyed this. I can't thank you enough for coming on. I enjoyed it. And you'll have to get me back. We'll do a, we'll do a a trapping thing sometime. Absolutely. I'd love that.

Thank I appreciate it and we'll talk to you later. Thank you very much. And there we go folks. Huge shout out to Mr. Keith [00:45:00] Bobcat Williams for coming on talking about all his Turkey calls. And man, I'm telling you, these things are beautiful. They're unique, and anytime you can do something a little bit different than the other people that you're competing against.

It's always a good thing. So yeah, check Keith out. Man, a bonus little predator segment in there in the middle. And I know several of you have been asking me about how doing a trapping episode, so we might have to have Keith back on, talk about some some coyote trapping, some raccoon trapping, all the good stuff because man, those predators really are wreaking havoc across the nation on our poor little Turkey population.

All right. That's it for this week, guys. Yeah, I'm, like I said at the beginning, me and my daughter are gonna be heading out to the ranch this weekend. Getting ready for a little thing that I'll probably be telling y'all about in the next week or two. We'll see. But so yeah, that's my plan. I hope everybody's safe.

I hope everybody's having a good time. Get out there. Enjoy the great. And until next time, I will see y'all right back here on [00:46:00] the Oklahoma Outdoors Podcast.