Paul Campbell & His Love For Turkey Hunting

This week on the Missouri Woods & Water podcast the guys get to talk with Paul Campbell of the O2 podcast about his obsession with turkey hunting.  His co-host Andrew Muntz also joins us as moral support and to offer a few of his thoughts as well.  We get into Paul's background with tukey hunting, habitat loss, his opinion on reaping, hunting strategy, calling, and much more with Paul and Andrew.  We also talked about our recent coyote hunt with Missouri Disabled Sportsmen in our intro, it was an awesome time.  Thanks for listening and enjoy the show!

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Missouri Woods and Water podcast. We got Nathan, Micah, and Andy. How you doing boys? You're getting worse at this. He's getting yeah, getting very nonchalant here. Also, can I make one observation and I'm not saying it's because you were actually bored, but I bet you yawn during our show.

412 times. It's nine o'clock at night, dude. That's what time I yawn. Sorry . Every time I looked at the screen. Mic go. Who? Dude, once I start yawning I just can't stop. Just don't stop. And I couldn't even touch our this is one of those nights You annoyed me while we were recording, cuz like I couldn't even get on the.

The desk [00:01:00] cuz Micah's got that restless leg thing and the desk is just sitting there going bounce. I can't help it, dude. Sorry. Yes. You can just stop moving. No, I can't. I literally can't so it's a syndrome. I got more than one syndrome, that's for sure. I do. I got a few , I got a few issues.

Take you back to the shop. . Yeah, they tuneup. You too done yet? Yeah, we're done. Okay, cool. So our show today is about Turkey hunting. Yeah. But I want to talk a little bit about cow hunting first because why the hell not, we like it. Because we don't do it enough already. , we we did do a new kind of coyo hunting for us last week.

Yeah. We had a lot of fun, man. It was a lot of fun. I hopefully we can do it again. Yeah, I'm down. We we took, we went and got together with Missouri Disabled Sportsmans and me, Andy. We took a guy out also with Pete who's the what's his title? Director. Director. Chairman of the board.

Yeah. Chairman of whatever the court. We were able to, he's important. [00:02:00] The man. Yeah. We were able to go out there and do some cayo hunting and they had these cool track chairs and dude, those things were bad ass, that there was nothing. And it rained all day. Thursday. If I had to guess, we at least got inch.

Yeah. But everything was mud. It was swampy. And not only swamp mud. Was it swampy? We were already in an area that they, it's a duck hunting area. Yeah. So it was wet in general. , a lot of farms flood intentionally. Yep. And they're taking the water off now because duck season's over, but it's still pretty soupy out.

And those chairs, places side by sides wouldn't go. Yep. They, I was getting, my legs are getting tired walking through mud and this, that, those chairs are just cruising right along me. Yeah. Also shout out to Jesse and Jesse and Harley Harley with Explicit Outdoors and Brandon Scarborough and, oh man, I forgot his Matt Buddy's name.

Shit. Sorry man. They came to and took two of the other hunters, Matt Timore and Yeah. That's correct. Yep. Matt Timore. Yep. And despite what Micah said, I was there in the [00:03:00] afternoon. I was gonna Yeah. As you, as I say, Nate, Nate joined us. He did. We went out a little bit that night. You was balancing some kids stuff.

Yeah, we went out a little bit Friday night, just right there at the lodge. Didn't have any luck. Got to show the guy some Bobcats though. We did get some Oh, that was pretty cool. They were 60 yards away from us, so that was pretty neat. The next day we went out and it was really hard hunting.

It's just, I think that time, it's that time of year, the weather was actually pretty nice. 60 something degrees, 65 degrees. It got hot. Not an ideal coyo hunting weather. We did get on some dogs. We just couldn't make it happen we had 'em in front of us, which that, that happened when I wasn't with you guys.

We called him, but So you guys took out Josh? Yep. Yeah. . So what's up Josh? We enjoyed spending time with you last night. Andy and Mike obviously spent more with you. Johnny and Eric were the other two guys. Johnny went with Scarborough and Brandon and Matt did, Eric went with the explicit guys.

Justin, we also actually had a little fella named Will. Yeah. Will got, he's our Friday night. He joined us Friday. Yeah. Will got to do a a little bit of thermal hunting. And his dad and I [00:04:00] never got his dad's name. You know what, I never did either. I don't think I did. But I enjoyed vi I visited with him Friday night for quite a while, just on different things, trapping and mountain lions and Yep.

He quite the experience. Me and his dad got to talk Yeah. Quite a while about what he used to do for a living. And he was a cop, a police officer, law enforcement. Yeah. Yep. And and then got to take, will, a little bit of thermal hunt. Got to show him some stuff. I really thought we were gonna, cuz I, I got.

you guys took care of Eric was the other guy that went down with us, right? Yep. You guys, you and Jesse and Micah I was pretty much just scanning. We're over with him and then me and Will's dad. Micah were trying to keep an eye on the coyotes. We had spotted and, Jesse, and, since it was my scope, I was familiar with it.

So I was trying to help Eric get set up. Jesse was helping us get, maneuvered and everything and we almost, yeah, almost made it happen. But it was our first time around those chairs. We had no idea how loud they were. And not only you're thinking about da, dead of night and we're rolling down on gravel [00:05:00] road rocks, popping different things, right?

Noon was bright as, and there was what, one room? Two bright, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 of us out there. Yeah. Seven dudes going down a road because I can remember talking to Will and just being like, Hey, listen. Safety's right here. Yep. There's one in the chamber ready to go. It's not gonna kick, just slowly.

It's a light trigger. I was going through everything with him. I'm like, can you move this way? Yep. Cuz the coyo actually ended up what we thought was the coyo ended up being further to the right and so yeah, he was having a hard time like swinging that way. And, but they got to see bobcats. That was pretty ni damn, that itself was pretty neat.

50 yards. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, I wanted to, we wanted to give a shout out to Josh, Johnny, Eric and Will for, letting us take 'em hunting. Yep. It was a lot of fun. Hopefully next year we can get some killed. I'm hoping there's the next year we didn't get him killed, like I said earlier that day, Mike and I got em called in.

We actually called him three on one set. Yeah. We didn't know there was three. We called, it was kinda like two, we call it a triple one. We called it triple, but it was a two plus one. It was a double one, one. [00:06:00] and actually Pete had the single at 80 yards. It was squeezing the trigger when he heard us say there's two we were talking about two different coyotes completely.

So he backed off, thinking that we were gonna get a shot at this double. And specifically Josh, we, we did. And we did get a shot, but it wasn't, it was a poke. It was 300 yards. It was two 50. Okay. , that might've been part of the, that might've been the issue was we thought it was 300, but it ended up being two 50.

I took two ranges. One was 2 55, 1 was 300. I went with a 300 and it was 2 55. So I hit the tree behind it, apparently. Yeah. So Nice. But it was a fun time. My bad. We got to Friday night, we went down, got to have dinner with the guys. Get to know everybody. We, like I said, then that's when we went out a little bit Friday night.

And thank you to Duckhorn Lodge for putting us in. Yes, man. That, that outfit is just awesome. They were the actual owner fry. He was there and he was just nothing but accommodating. He was just Oh, it was phenomenal. Yeah. Great person. And they a great organization, if you wanna look them up, it [00:07:00] is, I believe on like Facebook, it is Duckhorn Adventures at Duckhorn Lodge.

Yeah. I believe is the official name if you wanna search them. They do a lot of great things, man. They do a lot of stuff with mo Vets, outdoors and vet organizations women, children, different like type. They're really four people who don't have the opportunity or resources to do those types of things every day.

A lot of waterfall hunting. I said specifically duck and bird hunting, but they, they want people outdoors that don't have the opportunity to get there. Yeah. That often, they were awesome. They they opened up their doors to us Bob and Dan. Dan. Dan. Dan. Yep. We're down there Friday and then Dan was there all day Saturday.

Don, that's right. Don di Drow. Don Drow. Yes. Think so. I'm glad you said that. Sorry. I suck at names, but once I get him I get 'em. But he was down there all day Saturday too, and we really appreciate it. We asked if we could help before we left Saturday. Nope. You guys, he, they were really awesome.

Yeah. And then also thank you to Pete. Yeah. For, organizing a lot of this stuff can ram rod it. Yeah. Being, the head of [00:08:00] MDs or whatever you wanna call it and allowing us to be a part of it. We got him hooked on it, actually. Yeah because as soon as we got up because he's never been coyote hunting before and he was just like, I don't know about this.

And then as soon as he had that dog, as soon as we stood up, he's I get it boys. I get it. I'm hooked. . He's like, all right, I get it. I'm hooked, dude. My heart was just pumping man . And that's what it's about. That's what it was about for, for Josh. For Johnny. And Eric. I mean it's trying to get them that feeling, that experience that sometimes we can take for granted cuz we re repeat it over and over, that's why we go Kyle hunting. They don't get that opportunity every time just because, for that organization their mobility keeps 'em from doing it. We solve that problem with them chairs and God after and those dudes are just bad badasses man. Oh you, and I'm not trying to have a pity party for 'em cuz they don't have a pity party for themselves.

But you take for granted like what you can do. Yeah. And those dudes don't get to walk anymore and it didn't stop 'em from going cow hunting with us, and they were able to get to go and y I never heard no complaining. And I [00:09:00] think even if something was wrong, they have a hard time admitting it.

They're like yeah, I do need a second or something. It's just we didn't, we just got after it, we hunt. You guys hunted hard. We hunted hard. We like going into it. We only thought we were like, if we get four sets in today, that's what we're gonna be good. We ended up getting six, right?

We got three with. I got back and we did seven. So we did seven. So we already did more than what we thought we were gonna do. Dude, Josh was getting man, he was ready to get off. Yeah. We took an afternoon, like we took, we went and ate lunch and he's Hey, I'd like to go lay down for a little bit, stretch out, do all that.

And we did. And I was sitting on the recliner sitting there on the recliner, doing the same and his alarm goes off and he's like, all right, let's go. He's ready. Okay, here we go. We'll back after it. Yeah, cuz when I joined up back up with you guys, I did three. Yeah. Yeah. With you guys. Yeah, that, that was great.

And I think the other guys got a lot of sets in too. Yeah. So anyways, what did a, shout everybody out. That was a great experience. We hoped to do more like that with them. Let's get into some turkeys. Let's get into some turkeys. And first [00:10:00] we gotta pay them bills. Who do you wanna start with first?

Let's start with OnX. Cuz we used these shit out of that dude. We wasn't for OnX. We would've struggled. We've been last weekend. Oh, we would've been screwed. Cuz we were in unfamiliar territory, no idea. Like never been down there. We said, Hey boys, you got permission on these farms right here.

And if you, he, and honestly when I say right here, he was like that. He was pointing that farm over there, that farm over there. If you go down this road, take a right, right? I said hang on, pull up OnX, what's the name? Yeah. And then you start looking at, okay, there's this fence line and that fence line.

Where can I set, where can I go? High points, low points without OnX, it would, would've been screwed a lot harder. Would not have been able to do what we did. So download the OnX Hunt app in your app store today. Use the code Mww 20 for 20% off on their website. OnX. Is it OnX hunt onx.com? I don't, I think it's OnX off the top of my head.

Just Google it. You'll find it. Yeah. Camo fire, rotating doors of [00:11:00] deals. You can get anything you need. Could use some stuff. At the hunt actually. What Brandon actually gave the guys some drags. Yeah. That he either made or had, I don't know exactly. I was gonna ask him about it and I forgot.

But they've got stuff like that on Camel fire. All the time. All the time. Get a little bit of everything. Just check. See how tied that in. Different every day. Good work to work. Nice. And also black ovis use the code M ww 10 or 10% off there. So with Turkey hunting coming up, boots, big deal there.

Decoy deco, they got all kinds of decoy. Decoys. Do they do they have any calls, sir? I'm sure. Oh, I'm sure they'll do. I'm they, I haven't looked. But check out black ovis. Any of your hunting equipment needs. Go shopping. Spend some money. That's right. F it. Them tax refunds back in. Now see that's a.

I should talk to their marketing people and be like, I have a new marketing slogan for you. F it. Spend the money. f it. Spend the money. I'm saying nice work. Lucky Buck Mineral. We actually did a walkthrough the other [00:12:00] day at one of my properties with Dustin Williams and looked at our sneak peek. Yeah.

Looked at our, my mineral sites. And I definitely need to get some more mineral. Too fresh. It's about time mineral. Your place where I hunt. Yeah. There's a hole in the ground now. Good. Pick it up. Rule thumb, put that bucket on top of your lawnmower. When it's time to mow the yard. Dump out your first bucket of lucky buck.

It's good thumb, half bucket, actually, I think. I'm gonna go with, start with a half. I don't remember, but you know where it is on the bucket? It's on the bucket. I'm pretty sure it's bucket. Bucket. And then you. Take half later. Yeah, because like right now is like the peak. Want 'em to feed. Yeah. You want 'em to have as much possible right now, but yeah, they've got that.

There's a nutrition guide on the bucket that it comes with that tells you the plan. There's a plan and a reason. He didn't just make some mineral hay. Dump this out. Every so often there's a method behind the madness for this stuff to work. It's a guarantee. Makes a man feel good. , I could take a shit in a box of market guaranteed.

Technically do have a guarantee. Look. Yes they do. Top of the, I was doing Tommy boy thing, but it was, yeah, you were sounds [00:13:00] stupid. Check him out. Lucky buck monroe.com. Wait a minute. Have you not ever seen Tommy Boy? No. I said you sound stupid. Okay, that's pH River. You're the river's edge. You're the one with the candy.

Shell use the code Missouri 10 for 10% and free shipping on hang ons and ladder stands. That was another thing we did. Dustin, so I've already got a few trees picked out that I'm going to put some stands in. There you go. So pretty excited about that. Midwest Gun Works. Use the Code Woods Water for 5% off anything there?

Midwest Gun Works, man. You can just pretty much about find anything there. , I'm really close to building another six, six arc just for your daytime. I've really enjoyed that gun and I believe they're starting to get parts in to build the custom rifles, if I'm not mistaken. Really. Anyways, they got all your gun needs. Save yourself 5% even on ammo after you build that gun. I know where you're going. Yeah, I was gonna do the same thing. Go ahead. You top it off with one of them. Math on optics. You [00:14:00] Dang there was probably, let's see, 21 to everybody, every single rifle out there I think had, except for one, I think every rifle one besides one had a alon optics at the hunt this weekend and none of us.

we're all separate entities, organizations, whatever you call it about it. , actually Josh Athlon sponsored Josh to go to a three gun competition. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz the guy, and he didn't even know him. He had no idea who Athlon was. He put in for it. But they paid Josh's way to do this for disabled three guns, fuel the hotel, everything for him to go down to a three gun shoot.

Shit. So that's pretty sweet, man. So not only do they have great stuff, they're a great company. They care about their people. Yep. From the check 'em out from Kansas City area. Yep. So check 'em out, atlan optics.com and if you need to find a dealer, reach out to us. We can find a bunch of different dealers.

But just so happens, Jesse with Explicit Outdoors is one of their dealers. So you can also, reach out to explicit and give Jesse a shout. Yeah, give him a shout and cut you back. Got [00:15:00] their L cameras in. Oh, snap. Is it the L camera? I think it's, I can't remember, but. Check them out, so check em out.

Cutting back digital.com. Our code is probably no good anymore and we're working with them to try to figure out if there's gonna be another one. But that's the sponsors for today. All right. Let's talk Turkey. Let's talk Turkey. I can't do it like Wilford. Nope, you can't. This is the Missouri Woods and Water Podcast.

All right with us tonight. We've got some some jokers that we've been doing some stuff with the last couple months, honestly. Paul Campbell and Andrew Munz with the O two podcast. What's up, boys? Gentlemen. Thanks for letting us come back on [00:16:00] again. Appreciate your appreciate your hospitality. You should.

I wasn't, you should feel blessed, but I do. I do feel blessed. Yeah. We took a vote on it and it was two to three. Nate voted no, but

fair enough. At least we know where we stand. , Nate voted no, but was the one was like, I'll text Paul . We didn't have his number. We need you to get that contact though, bro. I got Andrew's number. I don't know if I got Paul's number. No, we got get it man. Share it. Share it with the world. So not necessarily the world, but at least you two guys.

Got it. Area code. Paul's number is 6 6 0 7 5 7. I just started getting like random texts in the middle night that what happen. Ah, he likes butthole pictures much

Andrew smiled really big whenever you said that. , so I think I know who actually likes those. Have you seen there's a meme. No, I haven't. There's a meme rolling around the internet. I'm gonna keep going there, I'm gonna pretend that [00:17:00] didn't happen. But it's this guy at Mardi Gras holding up a sign and it says, show me your butt hole.

Yes. And there's, then there's a guy in the girl, like on the ground and they're looking at it, and this dude's got these giant beads, right? And so the next video. The dude wearing those giant beads cuz he showed him his . It's funny. Wasn't even the hot chick that died. So that's great. We should walk around Ata next year with signs that says, show me your butthole seequa quake, Paul, right?

Is that what Ula? The Turkey butthole. Turkey butt hole. Andrew's first, Koka Andrew Specific Andrew's first words on our show. This time was quake. Basically butthole. . It's the first thing he said. Spanish or butthole? . I did not think we would start this show off this way, but, You never know. When the two of us get together, there, there's five of us, there's six listeners.

The two of lost get together. Seven people. Yeah. Yeah. Keep it interesting, yeah. So we were, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell the story [00:18:00] and if you were sensitive to foul language, just hit the skip button on your app. 30 seconds. I'll keep it short. So we're walking into a half recommend in Wisconsin last year, we've never met any of these people. So we're doing like a live podcast with some people. There's it's like a fundraising event. We walk in, there's probably like 15 people standing here. A bunch of women, some guys, we have no idea who these people are months walks in first, and the first words out of his mouth were.

We're here for the gang. Bang. . I like, I just stopped. I'm like, oh God, man. This is, these are either our people and they're gonna love it or they're gonna kick us out. And it was like, everyone started laughing all at once and I'm just like, thank God. Thank God, . It was an awesome event. Let me just say it.

It was, man, but that was the entrance to all of these people. We knew one person out of all of the people that were standing there. Oh, I friends that night. Yep. Yep. Might as well just get the awkwardness outta the way, man. Just roll the dice. Yeah, exactly. Just see how, we're gonna, we're gonna set the tone for the night.

And it was great, man. How . That's just how he goes. I love it. Speaking of [00:19:00] talking, we decided to have you boys on because we've noticed a trend. Okay. We've noticed a trend, whether it's your guys' show or when we're with you guys, or we've talked to you guys. Paul won't shut the hell up about turkeys.

No. In fact, welcome to, in fact, you could be talking about anything, literally anything in the world. And Paul what will you make sure it happens? I'm gonna circle back somehow to to wild turkeys somehow. It's really amazing. Free hunting. It's an amazing talent you have. Thank you. Some people call it obnoxious.

And months it cracks me up cuz we'll be talking about like moose hunting or elk hunting or some shit like that with a guest. And I'll be like, oh yeah, this one time I was Turkey hunting in Arkansas. And he'll be like, oh God, here we go. And he'll just say it out loud and there's this audible, just ugh

So when we were driving out, I was, I think we were gonna St. Louis that day after ATA or before ata. And it's. Birds in general, like Paul's [00:20:00] bird. Bird. Yeah. And we're driving down the road 75 miles an hour down 70 or whatever, and he's oh my God. And I'm like, what? Thinking there's a semi about to hit us or something?

Nope. He's like watching the birds that are, the flocks of geese. Look at all those stogies I've never seen. So my white God, they're everywhere. And he's like halfway out the window, just like screaming. And I'm just, I'm trying to record it and it's, you just, it's true. His passion is un unmatched.

Thank you. Yeah, it's it's definitely an issue at some points, but this is my time to be relevant and this is the time that everyone wants to at least everyone wants to talk about wild turkeys it's a good, it's a good run for me from now until about June because I can talk about it and not feel like an idiot.

This is your time to shine. I just, yeah, I can keep being as long as your shine Bruce's time to shine. This is Bruce's time to show time, man. It's, it, this is it. So I I take advantage of it, when it's socially acceptable to talk about wild Turkey hunting. And I really ramp it up.

Now how's that time, isn't it? And that's why we thought it'd be good to have you on, we we, the three of us are, I'd say [00:21:00] below average Turkey hunters for sure. And have a lot to learn when it comes to that game. And it's a game that, we just haven't played much, for whatever reason.

Part of that is honestly the habitat that we hunt. . We haven't had that many opportunities over the past, let's say five years-ish. It's gotten better actually the last year or two, to be honest with you. As far as Turkeys being around where we're at we had a rough hatch a few years ago, I think.

Yeah. And it was numbers were down, but I think, it's slowly coming back. Yeah. It is. But so that's part of it is we just, where we are, the properties we hunt really don't have 'em. But we're starting to see that a little more, but I'm not gonna lie to you, that part of Missouri, we, we're in a very row crop heavy Yeah.

Area. And it is like war on trees, which equates to like war on Turkey habitat. And people wonder I don't know why we don't see Turkey like we used to. Yeah, there's Jet Row. You're ripped out about 50 acres of their prime habitat there, bud. Yeah. Yeah. That, and that's a real, that's a real issue across the country.

And [00:22:00] it's funny because people will get angry about it and they say we don't have the turkeys like we used to. 20 years ago, 25, 30 years ago, whatever the number may be. And then you look at that, the habitat loss or the lack of habitat maintenance and putting the conservation efforts in, on your personal property or state land, whatever it may be.

And then the turkeys go somewhere else, right? They're just looking for a better home. It's if I went through and ripped your roof off every two years you're gonna, you're gonna move, you're gonna move to a different home that has a roof. Yep. And so that's, it's an, it's, it sucks because a lot of, for a lot of people, wild turkeys are, it's a very personal issue.

. But I think for humans it's hard to say to point the finger on us, back yourself like, why I didn't do this or I did this. I helped destroy habitat on my farm or my property or whatever it is. So it is it's a very personal issue and it's a very there's a lot of nuance to that conversation about.

Impact positive and negative that humans have on military populations across the country. I would say no, I heard [00:23:00] habitat, but there's a le there's less coon hunters now in our area, at least than what used to be, say, 10, 20 years ago. . There is a plethora of raccoons, I will tell you that.

And I think we all know that's a big big nest predator, big hatch, nest predator for them yeah. Yeah. So Paul and I talk about this a lot because it's one of those things that. I think in life everybody wants that silver bullet. They want everything to be black and white, but it's super gray, right?

And the habitat is one thing, Andy, I know you're big in the farming world. My job involves a lot of things, with pesticides and things like that. So they like to go after pesticides the nest predators, whatever it'll be. But I think that we have to collectively agree that it's never maybe not never, but oftentimes it is not just one thing.

Oh, absolutely. It's conglomeration. , and I'm with you on the raccoons, like in my backyard. I got a pile of corn sitting out there every night. I got 30 raccoons out there. I'm never gonna have turkeys until I take care of that problem. Yeah. But at the same time, we have to be, conscious of the habitat.

But up in Pennsylvania and stuff they've got tons [00:24:00] and tons of big woods and stuff that their populations have declined. There's no agriculture, I don't, what could be up there. Is it a bad hatch? There's just so much there. We could talk, I'm sure, for hours. Oh, definitely.

Definitely. Yeah. Mar Marcus Lashley and Will Goldsby. They're two wild Turkey professors out of one, one's out of the University of Florida, and I believe the other one's out of Auburn or Alabama somewhere. I'm not sure. But they did a trail camp study on corn feeders in the southeast.

And it, if I remember right, I think it was 82% of the animals that frequented these feeders were raccoons. And so when you look at like the habitat destruction and just the lack of care and maintenance on, on good quality nesting habitat and brood habitat for turkeys, you add in so we don't do that.

We've made raccoons more efficient at killing. Nests and killing PTs because there isn't the habitat for them to nest in successfully and hide from those animals. And there isn't the habitat for those little baby PTs, the baby [00:25:00] turkeys, to hide from those raccoons. Yeah.

Cause they can't fly for the person like two or three weeks of their life. So they're on the ground. . And so we've basically supercharged the raccoon's ability to kill with, with feeders and with getting rid of the, that edge feathering, that we hear.

So we've got those hard line transitions, especially in ag country. It's hardwoods and then cornfield or bean field. Yeah. Cut bean field, whatever it is. And so there's not that, there's not that little area for turkeys to hide in. And that's just more of that human impact that that we have.

That's hard stomach make for a lot of people because it's, yeah, we do well in, in some ways it's good, in some ways it's bad. Yeah. Farming has gotten much more efficient. Than it was 50 years ago. Tree line to tree line, every bit of it, right? You can get into nooks and crannies now that you couldn't get into before.

You can, whatever. It's gotten much more efficient, which means, just like you said, those feathering edges are disappearing in certain areas. And then it's like you said, tree line to, to field for a Turkey. Not good for a farmer. Good. Yeah. excellent. Yeah. And [00:26:00] that's the delicate balance between agriculture and wildlife, so we all know, you drive by a field it pretty much any time during, after the harvest and you're gonna see turkeys, you're gonna see.

deer. You're gonna see everything that can eat a legume or a corn. They're gonna be out there geese whatever it may be. So you there's a food benefit to 'em, but then, the habitat loss it's a delicate balance. And auto loop pool talked about like the fight between, he called it industry and nature.

And so the industry could be agriculture, it could be like literal, like development producing cars or whatever it may be. And how when one side wins out too much, it's not good for the other, and as humans, we gotta have the industry, we've gotta have the money, we've gotta have the food that we make and the animals.

It's just a delicate, it's a delicate balance. And I think it's I think it's important to just one, acknowledge that, and two, do the best we can to stay within that balance or do the thing. If you care, you do the things that, that, balance out that impact that we have on the landscape.

. And Paul Campbell obviously cares. Andrew [00:27:00] you're gonna come along for the ride here on this one, but one of the things I wanted to talk about is what makes Paul Campbell tick on turkeys? What developed your love for these birds throughout your life? Yeah, so Childy was bit by a Turkey and then just spiral.

I wanted turn it face. Yeah. I wanted yeah know, I thought I was gonna be like spider-man, but like Turkey man never happened. No so wolf fast. So I didn't grow up in a hunting family. I didn't start hunting until I was 25 years old. So this would've been 2008 would've been my first Turkey season.

And so my dad had just died. If for those listening, if, if you're old. You, you remember the Great Recession as it was called, the economy was trash in 2008. So I worked in the golf course industry. I started in 2004 in the golf course industry and I was just bouncing around cause I couldn't keep a job.

Golf courses were really struggling. I was laid off. My dad had just died. I was complete drunk. I was a waste. I had no path in life. And I was [00:28:00] really struggling, man quite honestly. Just on, on a personal level, I was a, I had a son, I was a young father, single father.

And so I had a lot of things going against me personally, professionally, and I was just in a bad place. And so my best friend Kenny Keaton, we grew up together, known each other since we were five years old said, Hey, man do you wanna go Turkey? wild triggering. And my response is, what the hell's a wild Turkey

I had no idea what they were. I didn't like, I didn't know that was a thing. I didn't know that they one those animals around and two that people like chased into the woods with shotguns. Like I, I never crossed my mind that was a thing. And so I was like, sure. What the hell man? I like, I had literally nothing else going for me in life.

I was like, yeah, man we'll do that. So I go to Walmart, I get the cheapest camo that you could get. It was like masio obsession. It was like super thick cotton. Like it didn't move, like it was just hot. It was like $10 a shirt, $10, $15 for a pair of pants. I borrowed a shotgun. I bought this little tiny primo's power crystal.

It was like in probably 10 bucks [00:29:00] or something. And. So set out on our first wild Turkey hunt. And both of us we didn't really have any idea what we were doing. And we can talk about that more. But the first time that I heard a wild Turkey goggle, something in my mind, in my heart, in my soul, whatever you wanna say something clicked.

And I, when I heard that gobble I've never wanted to see something so bad. I've never wanted to, just put my hands on something so bad. And quite honestly, I've never wanted to kill something so bad. until, when I heard that Turkey gole, I didn't see a Turkey that year.

Didn't see it, didn't even get close to seeing a Turkey the second year. Didn't get close, I saw some, had some interactions. Third year I finally killed Turkey. And at that moment in my life. And, so that first spring didn't even see him. I would. I would go back to the public land that I still hunt to this day.

And I would just listen. I would listen to the turkeys talking in the morning, communicating with each other. And it was something just about the woods became special to me. It was that reset button. It was something that that at the time it gave my life purpose. And I think that's why it's [00:30:00] very personal to me.

It's very special to me. Those, that, that time in the woods, whether it be spring or fall and then you add in the mix with, the communication. And that's why a lot of people really like tur. Again you get to talk to 'em, they're talking to you, you're talking to them.

It's a battle back and forth. All of that, you wrap it up with the emotional side. And what it did for me on that level is why it became so personal to me. And it's why at this point in my life, I'm fortunate enough, personally and professionally that I've dedicated a lot of that of my time to the conservation of the Wild Turkey and just.

And Turkey hunters and hunting. So yeah that's it, man. That's why it's so important to me cuz it came into my life. It, quite honestly, the darkest possible time that I've been through. This is not the story I thought I was gonna hear. I No, that's why I wanted to ask.

Hey that's cool. Everybody has unique stories and that's awesome. Everybody has that. What pulls him in and that's what makes it special. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Man. And I, you talked to Dan Johnson, and like same thing with him, but with deer hunting, and I think that's a, so many people miss the point of well the point changes [00:31:00] as you get older or different, and you take for granted the time that, that you get in the woods and, I've done it. Even just in the limited time that I've been a hunter, I've done that, and it's e it's easy to do. It's definitely It's intentional effort to remember, why you're there and why you enjoy being in the woods, your friends, the pursuit, the challenge, pushing yourself.

That's stuff that's important and I hope that people never forget. If you have forgotten it, I hope that you remember. Sir, are you are you actively trying to brainwash Andrew into loving it more than he does now, Andrew, to be fair, I don't know how much you like or dislike Turkey hunting prior to your relationship with Paul, but you know what kind of brainwashing goes on from Paul's side?

So I didn't have any experience with it, and it was like two years ago. He's you want to go out? I'm like, sure. So we went out and I, same type. I don't know, I heard a couple gobbles and stuff. I still haven't had a whole lot of success in the woods or any success when it comes to that. One thing I did really enjoy [00:32:00] was just the idea of being out in the woods during the spring for I don't wanna say for no reason, but it just gave you a reason to say, Hey, I'm piecing out this morning, the Saturday morning to go to the woods, which in the past I didn't really find time for.

So in my line of work, like the spring is usually just insane. And so I, that's probably part of the reason that I never really got into it. I was too focused on, on work stuff and try to get as much done in the spring so that I can spend more time on, on deer in the fall. But Paul's definitely been a major influence on that.

And with him I heard my first Turkey at the same time though, he's a busy man, he's traveling all over and so we go out as much as we can in the spring. But he doesn't brainwash me too much. He always very encouraging, but I ask him a lot of stupid question.

When he started the How to Hunt Turkey podcast, he's I just don't know what I'm gonna talk about. I'm like boom. Here's 15 topics that I would ask you about because I don't know. And things that would cut, what you'd want to cover for somebody that's learning how to hunt turkeys.

Yeah. Yeah, that's, brainwash has definitely been [00:33:00] for me on the deer hunting side, that's something that I had, honestly, I just had given up completely. Just, I just burn, burned myself out and I just didn't enjoy it. And we started the oh two podcast and hunt together and man, I had my best deer season ever this year.

Enjoyed every second of it. So it was cool. Would you kill yes. There's there, I don't wanna pivot to deer, but didn't you kill four deer in five minutes at one point in time this year? I killed three, three deer in 18 minutes just letting it eat . Nobody's counting . It was, and for those listening, it was a controlled hunt on a wildlife refuge, so it didn't count towards the state total.

So like the whole purpose of being there was population control. Yeah, man, it was quite the day. I like it. Getting back into turkeys. How many different states have you been to hunt turkeys? So I've hunt, I've hunted like maybe six or seven states total this year. So next week. March 15th, I will be doing my first floor to Turkey Hunt.

Man, I You talk about excitement like a child. I'm as excited as a [00:34:00] freaking four year old kid in Batman costume, man. So I'm ready to rest your son. . Yeah, that's my nephew. Yeah. That's funny. No, there you go. So yeah, so this year, and it might even be more than that eight maybe.

Just this year I think I've got nine states planned. Wow. Yeah. So it's gonna be, it's gonna be a good, it's gonna be a good year, man. I'm looking forward to it. I've got the chance to take, I've got three different species subspecies plants. I go to Osceolas and then Easterns obviously, and then a Miriam's Hunt planned.

So there's, within the Turkey world, if you get the four subspecies that we have , Osceola, Eastern Miriam's and the Rio Grande. So if I get those three, I'm gonna have to do. I'm gonna have to go to the Southwest and try to get a Rio, Oklahoma, obviously Texas, nothing. So I can't, my wife's can't you do that next year?

I'm like, it doesn't count. It's not the same. Doesn't count as a grand slam. Yeah. Yeah. So I just shuck off as much responsibility as a father and as a person as I can for Turkey season. And I have to just make it up, so January to March, end of March I'm good. And then June [00:35:00] to, to December, I'm, the rest of the year I pick it up, but man, I'm a schmuck tearing Turkey season as, as much as I hate to say it.

Yeah, and I think that's probably why we're not as big a schmucks is because we do the same thing with elk and deer, coyotes and now coyotes. And so Turkey season rolls around and it's like you really are watching your lower jaw when you say, Can I go Turkey hunting, just waiting for that fist to just, and see I, land I pivot from, pissing off my wife hunting to pissing off your rest, your dad to pissing off my dad to where I'm supposed to be in a plant sometime , we're supposed to be plant corn and it's dad will be there like 10 o'clock maybe.

Depends if they're goling or not. Yeah. But he honestly, he understands, he's been cool about it because he's a big Turkey hunter. He's Or a big Turkey, or Used to be, yeah. Yeah. He's left it up to me and his other grandkids and he used to tell stories to me where he would get in trouble from his dad, he should be planting and he was out chasing turkeys and everything. It's a, you and your dad used to go down [00:36:00] south? Every I don't know about every year, but I've been a couple times. I wouldn't say I go every year. Like my dad used to go every year down southern Missouri.

He has a good friend down there and have Turkey camp for a week and shoot. They would just get after it. Yeah. No that's neat, man. And I hope that you and your dad make time to, to get out of the planters as much as you can and hunt together. I would freaking go nuts, dude.

If I had to be locked in anything during the spring I would, it would be, it would be painful. The one, yeah, because even, go ahead. I was just gonna say the one, I don't know if it's positive or negative, but in the state of Missouri, you can only hunt till, what, one o'clock? Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. You can only hunt turkeys till one o'clock. Maybe in the fall too. I'm not sure. Yeah. But I don't know. I know in the spring, yeah. . Yeah, definitely gotta give him break after 1:00 PM apparently . Yeah. And we're like that in Ohio. The first week you can hunt until noon and then the rest of the season it's sun.

Half hour before, half hour after type deal. So yeah, man, that break definitely, it forces you to get out. [00:37:00] Cause I know in Ohio, like you have to be out of the woods at noon. There's no hunt until noon and then a two hour walk back. Like it's, you gotta be out of the woods at the truck by noon.

So I don't know why, I really don't know how Missouri is on that. Yeah. I don't know. But you're walking two hours to go Turkey hunting? Yes. So I, if I had to guess, if I had to look at the average miles I'm probably between seven and nine every time I go out Turkey hunting the most that I've done in one day.

And this is like my late twenties I'm 40 now, so I could probably do it. I wouldn't be hunting the next day. But I did 35 miles in one day. That sucked. Just Micah, I don't know. You didn't spend that much time with Paul. The dude doesn't sit still. Like when you go out in the woods with him, we're like, sit there for 10 minutes.

And I'm just kinda like waiting maybe you heard something, Paul be like, all right, let's go over that ridge and then over to that ridge. It's just like nonstop all over the place. Yeah. So the answer question I wanna find question I was gonna ask him, what is his favorite? Does he like sitting up decoys and blinds or is he running gun Congo, running Gunner?

No, absolutely not. And [00:38:00] I, so I had, I got permission to hunt a hundred acre farm here in our county a couple years ago. And the turkeys would roost on top of the ridge. They would hit the ground and they'd either go yeah, it was just so they, they would roost the neighboring property. And the first couple times I hunted there, I'm like, I walked the entire property by seven 30.

I'm like, what the hell do I do now? So I just stand along the line fence and I try to get 'em to come across the, the corn fields or whatever. Yeah, I definitely, I like to run 'em, I like to run 'em out. And find them and, I don't know, man. E everyone's different.

That's the one interesting thing about Turkey hunting is there's no absolutes. Every way works every way, kills turkeys sitting in a blind, setting up decoys, how do you, everything can work. What's that? What's that? Whenever you like actually reaping. Yeah. How do you feel about reaping?

I've heard, yeah. So that's probably the most controversial topic in, in, in the Turkey hunting world right now. I'll set the stage of why it's controversial. One there's no science behind that. First, explain what reaping is so that maybe someone listening doesn't know.[00:39:00]

So reaping is the act of taking like a decoy that's got like a full fan, either real or fake, attached to it. Or just like a fan on a stick. And you go into a field and you manipulate, you move that fan or you move that decoy and it triggers a response from the dominant tom normally. It's a fight.

It's a fight action. And they will charge you from, I've seen videos where they, people will pull turkeys 300 yards away with a to or with a decoy. And so normally something that's 300 yards across the field, you're not gonna get that Turkey over there. So that's the, that's the issue that people have.

And there there's some, there's no research that's been done about the effects of reaping on Turkey populations. There's a lot of speculation. There's a lot of theories about it. And so the way that turkeys they're lacking species. So what that is they have, you'll see 'em now.

They're fighting it out. They're fighting with each other. They're creating a hierarchy within the breeding structure. And so they're very rigid within that breeding structure. And so you'll have these groups. You might have like just say in the arbitrary number, you might [00:40:00] have 10 times and you'll have one Tom that is the dominant burden.

He's the bird that is gonna breed a majority of those hens. Those hens have chosen him, he's fought it out. And so when you, when you pull that fan out, that Tom comes in, and a massive majority of the turkeys that are killed across this country are like two and a half year old turkeys.

It's their first year with a long beard. They're fired up. They're full pissing vinegar, they're gobbling like crazy. They're on freaking fire. They're not necessarily breeding hens at a high level, right? They're just out there just trying to get their feet wet, man, figure out how to be a big boy. And so those are the ones that we normally kill.

The adult Toms, the mature birds that are at the top of the food, are top of the breeding chain. We're, most of the time we're not even seeing those birds. Honestly, if you're hunting woods, you're not seeing them. They're just, they're smart. They're tied to those hens. Yes. Some of them die every year.

And so the problem with reaping is that when you take that dominant time out, and this is the thought that when you take that dominant time out, those turkeys have to go back and reestablish that breeding [00:41:00] hierarchy, that breeding structure. So when they do that, what you've done is you've taken during times that, that hinge should be nesting.

You've moved that back a week or two because they've had, they have to go through and start that over. So when the farther that you move the breeding season and the nesting period down, the lower the survival rate is with those turkeys. That's, and like I said, the that's the, the people that understand Turkey biology, that's what they've said.

There's no research. They're like this is what's going to happen. We know how the turkeys operate, but there's no data to, to support that. So it's very controversial and for me, this is just me. It is a hard no. For me, not because of, I think that it's I'm like a righteous warrior.

If it's legal in your state and you're so inclined to do it, do your research. You make it up your own decisions. I'm not gonna judge you. For me it's a safety concern. So in 2000 and 21, there was a 19 year old kid and his girlfriend we're hunting on a family farm in West Virginia. 76 year old man trespassed onto their property.

[00:42:00] This kid was reaping a Turkey in the field. This old man shot him with a 2 43. It killed him right in front of his girlfriend. Oh shit. Body was killing a Turkey illegally har killing, like poaching a Turkey. 19 year old kid with a Turkey decoy. . That's dumb. Your life is not worth a Turkey.

It's not worth an elk. It's not worth a whitetail deer. You're not gonna dress up in a pelt with horns on your head in a bow in your hand and walk through the woods during the rut. That's insane. Or tearing gun season. No one's gonna do that just so you can get closer to a buck.

So I, for me it's a very dangerous practice. I, I want people to really take that into consideration. Is it effective? Hell yeah. Is it, does it look like fun? It looks like a lot of fun. I'm being honest. These turkeys come flying in their heads turn freaking white and they're just like, they're angry man.

They're out to whoop up on ya. Yeah. And guys are dropping these decoys sometimes from 10 yards or less. The adrenaline rush looks freaking awesome to do the It does. It really does. Yeah. And you're not gonna get that doing it. And I'll use your air quotes the traditional way, where you're hiding yourself.

You're calling and [00:43:00] you using the wood sense, but. . Yeah. For me it's very much a safety issue and I would not be sad if it was outlawed in all 49 states. Just for that. Funny, the way you re explained it, I've never heard it explained in a scientific manner, the reaping what do you call it?

Argument is, I've heard it one or two ways. It's legal. I'll do what I want, and then I've heard it the other way was it's cheating, right? Those are the two arguments I've really ever really heard. And Yeah. I've never heard somebody explain it from like that manner where the bi biology, about the behind it.

Yeah. Yeah. Like the h the hierarchy and the , obviously from a safety aspect, I didn't realize people had died doing it. Why was the dude using the 2 43 to hunt Turkey? He was poaching Same illegal. He was poaching. Same reason he was trespassing because he don't Yeah. Shit. Yeah. Yeah. But I just, I did a podcast with some guys from Louisiana on the How to Hunt Turkeys podcast Team Wing Bone.

And they put out a video just a couple of weeks ago. Last year they were in Montana. They were hunting Miriam's turkeys. They were on a ridge. They had a bunch of Toms in a field going [00:44:00] crazy goblin. They had some hens and the guys were just sitting there letting the morning work out, letting the process work out.

And they look to their left and they see a Turkey to their left and the one of them turns to, to get positioned to kill us. This is 30 yards from him. It was a dude that had crawled in on his knees and had a full Turkey decoy with real feathers on it and had crawled in, had heard these turkeys goblin and had crawled through the woods.

And had this Turkey. If that's a 13 year old kid that, that's the first Turkey they've seen, what are they gonna do? Oh yeah. They pull up, they're it down. Pull the trigger. You're damn right. And is, you asked that guy, is it worth it, man? And that's it. That's, so that's where it comes from me.

Like I said, there's not there's just theory at this point. There's no hard fast science. So I think that's where a lot of people say it's still legal. I'm gonna do it. And, the polite conversation, is gone. It's out the window. Online it's, you're either like, I'm gonna do it cuz it's legal and you're not gonna tell me either way, it's my hunt.

Or it's you're cheating or it's not the right way to do it, the, there's no good, there's no [00:45:00] good conversation. The argument could be made like with the way that they've got the decoys now, like I've seen 'em where they put 'em on like RC cars or trucks and stuff. Yeah. And they'll go out there and drive 'em on a truck.

Serious. Yeah. That's essentially the same thing, except you're obviously not. In shooting, you're not in the field. I get the safety aspect of it. I do, but you but to be honest, you changed my mind cuz I was like, if I was gonna do a Turkey hunting, that looks like the funnest way to do it.

But yeah, the safety now and that little bit of knowledge that you did on there, that, that kind of changes my mind a little bit. Yeah. The few times I've gotten a Turkey to work and actually gobble call to it and, the woodsmanship of it, like that adrenaline rush is, I say equivocally legitimate compared to that, but it's just, it's hard.

And so people don't want to do it. They wanna do the easy way, the quick, the quicker reward the reaping. So I mean it's funny. Yeah. If you think about it, every type of hunting there's always [00:46:00] infighting inside those different arenas of hunting, like Turkey hunting.

It's the reaping argument. Cow hunting. It's the thermal versus day hunting argument. Like you've got hardcore thermal hunters, you've got hardcore day hunters, deer hunting. It's traditional bows versus cross bows or rifles versus, bow hunters or whatever. There's, and I'm sure there's something in duck hunting, I just don't know.

But yeah, so it's shoot them on the water. Ain't that one. Isn't that called shotgunning shot? I don't know. I'm not Duck. Something like water. Water. Swatting water. Boarding water. Swat. Did you just say water porting ? No. Water swatting. Water swatting. Yeah. Like all these different things, but and with not us, us three not being big time Turkey hunters, we've never really been involved in that argument with reaping.

It's just, we've heard about it. We know there's, people fight about it and it's a big thing. But yeah. Let's pivot into something more fun. But yeah. Make, yeah, let's do it. Make your comment. No I was gonna say, like you, you, if you have limited time to Turkey hunt, you and [00:47:00] I've heard Michael Waddell and I just did an interview with Philip Cole Pepper and this was, this was his stance and we had a great conversation.

I disagree with him, he disagrees with me was, but it was a constructive conversation. If you've got limited time, if you've got four or five hours to hunt every weekend, and you've only got four weekends, so you've got 16, 20 hours max to Turkey hunt, I understand that I wanna be in the game as much as I can be.

And if that's an easy way to do it, like I understand why people do it. I really do. I think it just takes a little soul searching and some research to, to, to figure that out. Yeah. Yeah. We'll put we'll bury that topic. All right. We're burying it. Let's talk about the season, cuz it's just around the corner.

We're recording this show on March 8th. In Missouri. Season starts soon in some states, has it not started somewhere? . Yeah. Southern Florida opened up March 4th. That's on the northern half of Florida. Opens up March 18th. Alabama on private property, opens up March 25th. It just spirals outta control from there.

What's our, so April [00:48:00] 17th, so we still got about a little over, so Alabama, it's only on private property for that date. Just on the 25th and then I think April 1st. It's statewide. Huh, interesting. Yep. And Alabama's interesting. They, some of their zones you can't use decoys of any kind. The first week of each season, which is, that's an interesting idea.

But in Alabama, you can also kill four turkeys a year. So , what's the point? ? Yeah. That's kinda like ours. Like we can we can harvest four. No, if you count both seasons. Oh. Fall and springing. And you could harvest another two during archery. deer season, archery deer season. I'm assuming I, and I don't know this for a fact, are you sure those aren't fault tags though?

I don't know that. I don't, yeah. I've never had to worry about that. But let's just say four. Why wouldn't you so to each season, why w and we want to complain about the number of turkeys. Why don't we just make it where you get one Turkey each season [00:49:00] and you're cutting it out? That's a legitimate Yeah, that's a legitimate question.

And Alabama just dropped it from five. You could kill five turkeys. And the state of Alabama has had probably the biggest decline of Turkey population. It's interesting how, when, the human effort gets into it. But yeah, Turkey season is here, man. It is upon us.

Yeah. Be excited. So yeah get ready, man. Buy Turkey cars. There's been all kinds of arguments I know in our state too. Getting rid of the fall season or this and that, to help the population. But I'm not gonna go down that path. Let's talk about some strategy real quick.

Okay. Yeah. Hell yeah, man. Let's go. I'm sure Paul Campbell and maybe Andrew now, since he's the one who's making you learn what type of strategy do you, especially like at the beginning of the season now this year might be different with you hunting so many different places, but we know that you like to run a gun.

How do you approach your season weeks coming up before, or that, that morning? How does it start for you?[00:50:00] If I'm hunting outta state and it's, I've never been there like, we'll just take Florida for example. What I do is I look at the previous.

3, 4, 5 years of harvest data. I wanna see the counties that have the highest totals, the counties that have the lowest totals. And I'll look at a map and if it's the highest totals, let's just say the top five counties for any particular state, I'll go to those counties and I'll see what kind of public access they have.

I'll look and see like how close they are to major cities. We all know this public land, if it's close to a major city, there's gonna be a ton of people there. So those higher numbers that equates to, to more pressure. So when I'm looking, I'm wanna go to that, like that lower, that second tier of locations still good Turkey kills, good public land access.

And I'll go there. So if it's trying to find turkeys, if I can roo turkeys the night before or, whatever it is, I'll go out and just listen to 'em gobble at night. I don't necessarily call. I might hoot, but I won't Turkey call at all. Just listen to see where they're at and.

If you [00:51:00] hear 'em like you, they're gonna be in that area at some point in time. For me, like when the hunts start, before I would just hit the ground running. I'm like ba, making all these noise, these noises, and now hooting and doing all these things. But over the years I've got to the point where all I'll let the woods wake up.

And I, you're talking to Dave Owens a couple of times from the Pinho project. He'll talk about you'll let the woods wake up, let the turkeys tell you where they're at. If you don't hear anything, then be the loudest thing in the woods. All of a sudden, whether it be an hoot or, a cut or whatever it is, just to pull something out.

So I've taken I've definitely started to take a more like, methodical approach to it. Just relax a little bit. Don't try to run five miles before seven o'clock in the morning. Get to that, look at the maps. If it's somewhere new, look at the maps. Find that highest ridge that I can get to, if, and I think the.

The holy grail that Turkey hunters are looking for on ridges is where you can hear three sides. Like you've got just that perfect ridge that comes out and you can hear off all three sides and just go from there, man. And there are [00:52:00] days that that it doesn't matter what you do, you're not gonna hear turkeys, you're not gonna give 'em to gobble.

And that's just the frustrating nature of Turkey hunting. So you could just lift Turkey off of that one just hunting in general, right? Oh yeah. You never know what you're gonna get. Yeah. You're like, dude, this is a deer killing evening. And then there's nothing. And you're like, this is bull crap.

I know that you're here , and they're 15 minutes after daylight, all over the trail camera, but you didn't see a single deer all night. It's just, that's just, it's Turkey hunting, man. It can be the most frustrating thing. You got 'em gobbling hard on the limb and you're like, I'm in the best spot possible.

And they head to ground and they go completely the opposite way and outta your life forever. One thing I've noticed is as we've coyote hunted more in the mornings when we start calling for coyotes, it's not uncommon for turkeys to start busting off in the trees. Or once they've come down, which I've always thought was interesting because a coyote is a predator, and you would think a Turkey wouldn't want that cow to know where they're at.

Yeah. But it's almost like [00:53:00] they can't help it. I don't know if that's No, that's it. Yeah, no, that's absolutely it. Like you, they gobbled and they're like, oh, crap, what have I done? And they do it again oh oh, stop it. all his friends are like, shut up, Darryl. You're over here.

Like those guys out. And I've never hunted out west, but I was talking to a guy, Jay Scott who does a lot of hunting out in Lake Arizona and Mexico, and he was like, the number one call locator, call for turkey's out west is. Is a coyote hauler. He's it's the number one call.

He's you can hoot Adam Crow call. It doesn't matter. He's you rip off a coyote call. They will gobble most of the time. So that might be something that I bring here this year just to see. I've wanted Andrew to bring his elk, call his elk bugle tube so that he can just start ripping off bugles here in Ohio.

They're gonna be like, holy shit. What was that there? It's got ready to go. He's got it ready? Yeah. Yep. Just to get 'em fired up with something new. But we're gonna try that this year. We're gonna, we are. Yeah. Just to see what happens to sound in the woods. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. So I hope I answered your question, but man, I I definitely have tried to take a [00:54:00] little more methodical approach.

I do look at the data that's available from the state agencies. If I'm going out, I'll look at my maps meticulously to find areas in tur are, they do like those transition. . They don't like that real tall, thick scrubby brush, though. They can't see anything. So those are, that's the stuff that you don't know until you get on the ground and the sun comes up, and so I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go here and it looks great. And, at five in the morning I'm like, oh my God, I can't get through this. There's not gonna be anything close to this. And, you just peel off and go somewhere else. Yeah. What about calling what's your, do you have a technique that you like to use there?

Yeah, so I, Andrew's seen me I cannot operate a mouth call, a diaphragm call. Can't do it. I gag Nathan's the same way. As soon as it starts come to my, towards me, I'm just like, blew up. So I've gotten proficient at using slay calls box calls, tube calls are my absolute favorite.

Tube. Call to [00:55:00] use. Yeah. Tube calls. So this is, it's an old school call. They used to make, guys used to make 'em out of snuff cans, so they'd cut a little hole in the top of a snuff can. Okay. And then they'd throw like a piece of latex over it. Oh yeah.

Yeah. And so it's just, it's an air call. And this is silicone for people listening. This is a primo's foggy bottom tube call. You can get 'em there 30 bucks. It's pretty cool. One of a diaphragm over top at the end of that R tube. Yeah. Yeah. And you just blow air through it and let's hear it.

It's they do it real quick. Let rip. Oh man. My kids are li asleep. Right front of it for you guys. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'll do a real quiet one. Just so don't wake the kids up.

He's trying to be quiet. You can't do it. Quiet. Yeah, man. And so the tube calls I've gotten pretty proficient at it's taken a lot of practice, years of practice, but, I can make a variety of calls with this thing get loud. It gets soft. I can, so being a proficient caller I, it's funny, that's another conversation that, that, Turkey hunters have is [00:56:00] woodsmanship is more important than calling, and that may be true.

I can tell you, you're gonna have more fun in the woods if you can call and you don't have to be like an expert. But if you can just operate a box call, man it can be a lot of fun when they start talking to you. . So it's, it sucks though, but because with us starting to show, the only people we talk to about Turkey hunting are badass callers.

Like Scott Wilber, for instance. Yeah. , he's been on our show multiple times. It's really no fun to listen to him. , pop on a box call or do anything because then you just feel like shit. You're just like, yeah, I'm never gonna call a Turkey. And he's cutting and doing all these things purring with a box call and you're just like,

Yeah. And that's all I can accomplish, and I'm totally inexperienced in all of this, but last year I had a Jake that was probably like 40 yards away up in a tree. And I'll tell you what, man, when I first heard him, I was like, [00:57:00] is something wrong with that bird? Because he, somebody killed that chicken

Yeah, it's like a rooster's just learned how to crow. It's exactly what it is, but so he wasn't very good at calling either. I don't think you have to be the best caller in the world. You really don't. We did an interview on the oh two podcast, a couple of, what, two years ago, or last year at this point, Andrew with Scott Ellis a world champion caller several times over just one of the most proficient Turkey callers in the country.

and his statement was a wild Turkey hen would not win a calling competition. And he's absolutely right. , when you hear him, you're just like, God, you're awful. They sound like a record or something, like going through like this old timey, like megaphone or some crap like that. And then you hear guys like Dave Owens and Scott Ellis, and you're like, damn, that sounds good.

And so yeah. You don't, yeah. That's the one thing I want people to understand. You don't need to be a champion caller. Dude, this is a box call. You can get a box call for literally like 10 bucks like a Quaker boy. If you can do this. That's literally that's the plain yelp of a hen.[00:58:00]

You, you can call a Turkey into range. That's all you need. , you're looking for, and Andrew's heard me say this, you're looking for the Turkey that's ready to die. Yeah. And when you find that Turkey that's willing to die. Man, if you're, if you can make a call, you're gonna get 'em, yeah. That's what Scott had said to us before, don't they? They don't sound that good, man. Just, all you gotta do is sound like one . And if you haven't heard 'em, they sound really weird. They really do. Yep. Yeah, exactly. If you haven't heard 'em, like you've been out in the woods and all of a sudden you hear something that's just what the hell is that?

Yeah. And before long, here comes this hn just making this God awful noise. You're like, Rick, what the f is she doing? And yeah. Yeah. They're funny little critters, man. And if you get the chance to get really close to a tom that's is drumming , that's a really neat sound that, that they make spitting that, they'll do where it's just, and they make this, like Dan Matthews and I were talking about this, and it's and I don't know what it is, but it's , you can almost feel it when they're super close, like [00:59:00] that drumming and they move their feathers in a way that you hear oh it's the craziest sound.

And the first time that you hear it, you're like, the hell is that man? And then you're like, oh my God, there's a Turkey three feet from me. , because they're that close. Before you can hear it. So it's pretty neat, man. I hope you guys get to hear that. But they make just, I forgot to hear one time and they're constant.

They're, yeah. It's the coolest thing. . And they're and here's the thing with turkeys, they're constantly making noise constantly. You may not be able to hear 'em cuz they're far away, but I've been around like flocks of hens before hunting. They're constantly making noise. And the toms too, they're just making little click click CLS and purs.

And it's just they're talking nonstop. And that's one of the things that like, is you get more advanced in Turkey hunting. and you get into different situations where you've got a Turkey that's not like necessarily willing to die, like you might be able to talk 'em into it. That's where those the calling skillset of, the soft calls, the subtle calls, you don't need to be out there hammering on stuff.

That's where it really comes to play. Cuz they can hear you. They can [01:00:00] hear soft calling from, I don't know, 200 yards away if it's a calm day and the terrain's, right? So yeah, that woods, that woodsmanship and calling that, that, that's a deadly combination. So do you think that's where a lot of people missed the boat?

I guess, and what I'm trying to say is I get, so Scott Wiler one time on our show had mentioned if you dug a hole and stuck the call down in the hole, let's say the hole was the size of a Coke can, and you had a Turkey 300 yards away and you just lightly called with that call, that Turkey could come to that hole and looked down at.

That's how good they can hear you. Yeah. Do you think people get just too overzealous in their calling strategies? E even if they're not gobbling, even if they're just using hen calls. Where do you think people, fail getting that bird mistake to make that break from a hundred yards to 30?

Cuz that's the biggest, I think, issue people have is making them [01:01:00] to make that final move into where you can kill him. Yeah. And so the way that, that it works in Turkey Woods, the Tom Gobel, the hen comes to him, the Tom's Goblin, and he's come over here girl. And she moves to him.

That's how it works in nature. So with us, obviously we're not gonna walk up unless you're reaping. But you, I get you. We're trying to, Micah made a joke just now. Sorry. Keep proceed. No, you're good. . So we as Turkey hunters, we need to manipulate the tom into the point that like, he's so frustrated that he's gonna come find you.

And so that, that can be a process. And I've had turkeys, man, they hit their ground, they gobble once and they're just like, let's go. It doesn't happen all the time. With the call, I think the biggest mistake, and I, we're all victim of it is when you got a Turkey that you just hit the box, call an accident, and it chirps and Turkey gobbles, and that shit's cool, man.

, that's fun. Calling at 'em and getting that response. So I think, when you've got a Turkey that they're hung up at 60 yards, 70 yards, whatever it is, and you can [01:02:00] see 'em or you can't, you just shut up because they're there. And so a lot of times what they'll do is they'll move to a point where they can see down where that sound is coming from or see clearly, and you may not even know they're there in the woods.

if they're mo, they're, they can be hard to see. But if they don't see a hen, they're not gonna, they're not gonna come in. They know that there's nothing there. They know that something's wrong. They may not know that it's you, but they know that they don't see a hen she's gone.

And so I think that, I think the problem when those turkeys are hung up and you need 'em to close that gap, it's just being quiet. Yeah. And not calling because you're giving them more opportunity to look down that hole basically. Say, I'm right now, figure you out. Yep.

Yeah. And and that's a hard lesson that I've learned. And then you get into the, where if they're calling, they're gobbling and they're not there. I can't tell you how many times I've had turkeys and I've worked for hours, literally hours. I've not moved because they're there and I'm not, and I'm not calling.

I might call [01:03:00] every 15 minutes just to see if they're still there and they're gobbling. And then eventually they stop and I stand up. and they're 20 yards behind me because they've come in, they've circled all the way around me, and I didn't see 'em because they were checking, they were looking to see where this hen is and they were coming back to that spot.

And I stand up to move because I might call and they don't gobble. I might use a Turkey call. I might, and they don't gobble. Why aren't they gobbling? I don't know. That's the answer. I don't know why. They're not gobbling. They're moving to But you stand up. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They you stand up and they're directly behind you and you're like, what?

Heck, what amazing Turkey hunter old Timer said that he was either on a show or someone said that to him on our show, said that to us, that he said on our show, it's when they shut up, that's when they're moving. That's a good thing. I think that was a big out, yeah. , maybe it was, he's, it was, oh, it was the guy that took him hunting.

Silence is a killer. Yeah. Silence is golden. It's if they keep talking to you, that's great, but they're not coming. It's when they shut up is when you need to get ready, because that's [01:04:00] when either one or two things have happened. They could give a shit anymore and have moved on with their day, or they're closing that distance and they're on their way.

It was the dude that took Al hunting one of the best to ever do it. What was his name? Couldn't tell you. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, it was, there we go. Good Turkey Killer . And you know that one guy, if you've ever, if you've ever watched turkeys, just be turkeys. Not in a hunting scenario. Dude, they moved so freaking slow, man.

They're like, oh, there's a bug. Oh, there's a bug. And they're just looking around and they're just pecking. And they're, Toms are puffing up and they're, it's just they could cover, 200 yards in four hours. If they really want to, and you're just like, oh my God.

And unless you're reaping one. . . Yeah. And so I think one thing that, that you add into it, and it happens a lot, is you'll have a tom and that he's working in, he's either silent every time he gobbles, he's 20 yards closer, that's a dead Turkey. And you hear, [01:05:00] and a hand just walks right in between you and him.

And he and because he's been gobbling , she did what she did, what she's supposed to, she came to him and she'll just pick him up. And at that point, that's a heartbreaking scenario. And you just watch it unfold more times than not. Yeah. The one thing that's interesting too, Michael Chamberlain, who's the Wild Turkey doc he's kinda like the preeminent wildlife biologist for wild turkey's research.

Is he did a study. where he had GPS collared turkeys, Toms, and then he would give hunters GPS collars trackers. And the hunter would put 'em in their bag and they would go out and he wouldn't tell them. He would just be like, okay, there's a wild Turkey this way. And that was it. And so the hunter would go out and Dr.

Chairman was able to see the interactions that hunters, no one killed this Turkey, but he did this for I think, like three seasons. And no one killed this bird with this cheapest tracker. Jeez. And it the closest that, that someone got to this Turkey, it was 30 yards [01:06:00] and they had no idea that they had been, they reported not seeing anything and chairman's do you have 32 yards, whatever it was from this Turkey and you didn't see 'em, is that they'll gobble and they'll leave and they will come back.

Yeah. And that was the data. They would come back almost within yards of the last. GPS location that the hunter would send out because, in their mind, like there, okay, there was a hen here, she might still be in this area, I gotta go back and find her. And so they would circle back. And that's, man, that's what's so freaking hard for me is, everyone says patience kills turkeys.

I think discipline is another virtue that, that people just pass, but you get the discipline to keep your ass in that same spot, for hours. And that's the one u unique thing about Turkey hunting is, like I said earlier, there's no absolutes, man. There's no scenario that's the same.

It's, knowing, you know when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em, when to get up and move, when to call, when to not, it's just, man, it's just experience. And the best way to learn is failure. , it's a unique thing, man. Just get out there and do it, I guess would be the best advice. It's hard not to [01:07:00] second guess yourself.

I do it every time when you can't see what's going on, you're, yep. Yeah. When two minutes go by after you've made a decision and. , you don't have that instant gratification. It's natural to go. Was that the right decision? No. Or was it wrong? Yeah. LA like last year a good, oh, go ahead Andrew.

I was gonna say Nate, and when you can't see what's going on, you and I can understand that vertically challenged folks, yeah. That's why I prefer being in a tree where I'm up higher. I can actually see above things, so it's sitting on the ground when it doesn't do anything for me. That's

Yeah. It was I had a really, just one of the most intense haunts that I've had in Alabama last year. And I went back and forth for this Turkey, with this Turkey for over four hours. And I would see him and he would move and, but there was just kinda the area that I was hunting that it just so happened that I struck him up.

there was nowhere for me to hide. It was still early spring. There wasn't a lot of cover, so it was just like wide open. And he would come up to the top of the ridge and [01:08:00] would see nothing until he would move down. So I would go, 200 yards out, circle back in, get in front of him, boom, strike him up again.

And it was just like we went back and forth until we finally got to an area where I could hide. And it was just, and it just happened to be like real marshy, and, but the, the point is you can get up and move if the situation deems it. Like I, I could literally see this Turkey come up to the ti.

I saw him probably 15 times throughout the day and he would look down, wouldn't see anything. He knew what he was doing. He was smart. And he would take off like nothing here. I'm not going down there. You're not getting me, a two and a half year old target. He's gonna be like, hell yeah, let's go.

And he is gonna come ripping down that ridge. But you know this and it didn't work. I didn't connect. But you just have to know when you can move and how to do it. And I would move, like I said, I would go 200 yards out and then come back in. It would take me 45 minutes to do that, just move silently as I could.

It's one point, it took my boots off and carried 'em with me, so do you not use a decoy at all? Sometimes I do. I don't use 'em, just be I'm not, [01:09:00] because I'm some like righteous don't use decoys. It's not the right way to do it. I don't, I just don't like carrying them in the woods, man.

It's a they're pain in the ass, they're heavy sometimes. It's another thing to deal honey. Yeah. It's another thing to deal with. If I am hunting like fields, if I'm hunting like pasture or whatever I'll absolutely use it. But yeah for the wood, the woodlands that I hunt, I just don't like carrying them.

That's the only reason that I don't do it. So honestly, I'd probably have way more turkeys than I interact with every year if I had decoys. That's part of the fun, that's pretty awesome, man, that this, like I said, we were looking forward to talking with you just because thank you.

We know you like it cuz you won't show up about it. And that's a good thing. That's passion. And Andrew, we appreciate you having, just being very just being here man, cuz we knew you weren't gonna get to do much in this show. So supportive and you've just been here just chilling the whole time and.

It's all good. It makes him boring as hell. But hey, no, you chimed in with the appropriate times and you guys would go sick as hell the last couple days and he still showed up. [01:10:00] So that's what I hear. At least. We were rough, we were roughing it. Dude, , we went to the daddy daughter dance on Saturday.

The both of us with our daughters and I don't know if back with us from there or what, but man, that was, oh, I was racked man. So yeah, good way to lose weight's. The only nice thing about it, right? Yep. That's it, man. That's it. . Paul and Andrew, before, before we end this show, why don't you guys talk to folks, I know you guys have been on our show before, but if they haven't heard you before, tell 'em how they can listen to the O two podcast and the How to Hunt Turkey podcast.

And why don't you plug the new Deer or Turkey season.com website that you just launched. . Yeah. So the oh two podcast, the Ohio Outdoors Podcast, you can find that we're on the same network, Sportsman's Empire that's on every podcast listening platform. Andrew came up with a catchy tagline Ohio focused, but nationally relevant.

We get some really good guests. We have some really good conversations about deer hunting, Turkey hunting, duck hunting, whatever it may be. A lot about conservation. Pretty neat. Our newest episode this week. I [01:11:00] talk about the research project that I went on last week here in Ohio. I got to hold a Jake banded.

Jake banded a bunch of hens. It was freaking awesome. That pretty cool. Oh man, it pushed me into freaking hyperdrive. I will say that. But yeah, so the O two podcast, you can find us on Instagram d the oh two podcast. Find us on Go Wild oh two podcast. How to Hunt Turkeys. Same Network, Sportsman's Empire.

It's been a lot of fun. It's, the show how to hunt Turkeys is obviously, it's geared towards lemme guess. Lemme guess. Turkeys. , yes. Okay. And people that are just trying to learn how to hunt them. But I'll tell you it's, it is an interesting show. It's an entertaining show. I think even seasoned Turkey hunters will enjoy it.

I think the best way to learn to do Turkey hunting, to hunt turkeys, it's for storytelling. So I get people really interesting folks, really get Turkey hunters on. We just talk about it, listen to, so every episode I go into, I don't really know what the hell I wanna talk about.

And it always evolves into something different with each guest just because it's everyone's so vastly different. So it's really [01:12:00] neat. You get a different perspective every week about about Turkey hunting. So yeah, that's really cool. You can find on Instagram, H two h t podcast is the tag there.

And Turkey season.com is a little side project that I've started really excited about this website. It's it's, it highlights. content from a lot of different creators with videos, different podcasts. Obviously all Turkey focused. There's a really neat article section, a lot of blogs.

I got some great writers that are sending content. I've got some stuff on there. And then on the backside of it is is a store. So there's a good selection of calls. There's some neat Turkey hunting accessories and stuff like that. So the site is, it is just, it's evolving.

It's growing. It has been a lot of work to get it up and running, but I think so far it's it's been pretty cool. The response has been neat just getting in, seeing the different content creators that are there. So I think people really enjoy it. Turkey season.com, man, if you can't find Turkey hunting content@turkeyseason.com, I don't know what to tell you.

, that's awesome. Speaking of. . You gotta get one of those wiler calls, man. I'm telling you. I do, man. I gotta get, I [01:13:00] gotta get, I gotta get a hold of him. I You do. I gotta make that happen. I'll give you that number again if you lost it. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure I did. I suck at that. So Paul Campbell with oh two Podcast, Andrew Munz, supportive as hell tonight.

Thanks for coming on to get tonight, boys. Appreciate you guys for having us. Thanks for having me. All right. We'll see ya. See ya.

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