Social Media’s Place in The Hunting Industry

Show Notes

Today’s show opens with us talking about the upcoming cold front creeping in. We all can not wait until the weather is dropping and we’ll all be in the woods as soon as possible. Hopefully the coming dip in temperature makes the big deer move. We then pivot to Brad telling us about his recent podcasting experience with Matt Rinella. Him and Matt sit down to debate social media and its place in the hunting industry. One of the biggest discussions they had was over land usage in both private and public land. Listen in to this episode Sponsored by to hear Brad dive into some of the topics he covered during his time on the podcast with Matt Rinella.

Brad talks about the power of social media in the outdoor industry. While it can definitely be shown in an unfavorable light he believes social media plays a huge role in educating non-hunters about hunting. Anti-hunting groups have become experts in social media and using it against the hunting industry oftentimes leading the general population wrong by using catchy content to sway uninformed people their direction. We talk about how we can get people into hunting without having to post grip and grin photos after a successful hunt. How do you guys feel about social media use when related to hunting? Make sure to check out this episode to listen to our conversation on keeping the hunting industry in good favor with the non-hunting public.

 If you like what you’re hearing, please leave us a rate and review!!

 [UNCENSORED] by GoWild kicks off your week with shameful nonsense, inappropriate convictions, and unfiltered tales from the woods, waters and whatevers. [UNCENSORED] is a behind the scenes look at our adventures, failures, wins, embarrassing moments at trade shows, hilarious tales from the warehouse, and a good rant or three about the most recent tyranny from the Dark Lord of the Sith himself.

The show launches every Monday morning. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.


Show Transcript

You still you're like awkward. Okay. It like, it makes you look bigger when you're over there. I am bigger. And then I flex my triceps. I like that. We just talked about how unhealthy you were and now you're over here trying to flex and show off your muscles. Derek said. Something like that once when we were kayaking, it's like pulling my kayak out and he goes Boy for someone that's as unhealthy as you sure do look like you take care of yourself, and I'm like, I don't know if that's Compliment or an insult.

I think it's just observational. It's farmer's trait. It's like man you eat a lot of Arby's and you still You probably have like really good genes So if you would just eat some salads and run a little bit you could like really What we did at White Castle the other day was a marvel.

I know what you did. It was a marvel. And I didn't eat my last burger because... I told Jacob, I go, if I eat this, I can eat it. No problem. But I know that'll be my tipping point in the getting sleepy. So I'm just going [00:01:00] to throw it away. So Jacob goes if you're going to throw it away, I'll eat it. So he eats it.

And then he slacks me like an hour later. He's I'm getting sleepy. I'm like, yeah, you ate the forbidden burger. It was a double T. It's like a. It's a six inch tall white castle. So I haven't been to World of Beer to get the pimento cheeseburger in months. Like I haven't been, I've been trying to eat better and I have that place, I can't go in there without spending 50 bucks and, eating 2, 000 calories.

So I made I do Smash burgers, venison smash burgers with my grind. And normally they're pretty healthy, like overall, cause I'm like grain free bun. I they're super lean, a little bit of cheese, maybe caramelized onions and that's it for me. But this one I did pimento cheese on the smash burger and I fried it because why wouldn't you?

Like I fried the cheese. I took each one, I took two giant spoonfuls and put them out in the patties and then fried it and it was the best thing ever. But I was in the condition that you guys were in after eating White Castle. So it's mixed into the meat? No. I do the smash [00:02:00] burger, fry the, smash down the meat, 90 seconds on each side or so.

And then I, once I was done, I, the cheese was the pimento cheese. So I like threw the spoonful, smoothed it out so that, and then fried it. a pimento cheese patty. Yeah. And then flipped it. It didn't hold like a patty per se. Like a hash brown. But it was like literally just 30 seconds on each side just to warm it up and make it a little creamy.

But dude, I'm getting hungry right now because we're going into the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. But it was so good. I haven't been back out to hunt my little spot. Do we need to do an intro to what this is for this podcast? We just rolled into it. Welcome to Uncensored. Sponsored by Gun Broker.

People know where they are. Now they may not know it's brought by Gun, or sponsored by Gun Broker. That part we could share. A little bit Alvar Elmo. He's just. We usually film these on Mondays, and now it's Friday, it's 440 on a Friday, and we're all itching to get outside. Polar Vortex is coming down. Is it?

Dude, Monday is the best day to hunt. I can't, it's my son's birthday. It's gonna be high in the 40s, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And, yeah tuesday's Halloween, [00:03:00] so that's out, yeah, Monday looks really good. Okay. If you can go. I I will see if I can go. I was gonna go Sunday, but I can't now.

But yeah, I took Jacob out the other day. I don't remember if I've talked about this on a podcast. Is it Jacob Out Hunt? No, different Jacob. I think I did, that's right. I think I now remember explaining that on the show. I was about to be like, why am I not in the front seat? I haven't been out. What? You could.

I told you I would take you, but you have to shoot a bow. It was the day you ate the White Castle. He was afraid of what you'd do. I told him, I was like, Jacob's got a crossbow. You could, I said, I told him. We were just talking about this. I just listened to Dan Johnson on on the O2 podcast. And he was pretty much saying unless you're disabled, you should not be using a crossbow.

That's from a guy with nine fingers. Yeah, so I'm like, alright, that's how I felt anyways, but now I really don't want to get into it. A bow purchase up on my list of things to do. Next season, I promise. Pull the trigger with your toe, it makes you feel better. Yeah, maybe I'll do that. Yeah I was just trying to give you opportunity, which I took you last year and you were like, I don't want to shoot a doe, and you didn't shoot the doe that stood in front of it for half an hour.

It was pretty, it was a hundred yards away. [00:04:00] How much deer meat did you end up with, Dan? I still had some left over. What, from me giving it to you? How many times have you passed on your buck this season? I still have deer meat. Oh dear. I'm going to pull the trigger on one of these things. The, would you fire him on that?

I can't just archery. I can't. No, I can't. It's yeah, the worker would be like, redact it. Yeah. We gotta redact that Jake mean anything. Yeah. Yeah. The worker would be like, no one will care. Yeah. , you can buy a gun. No one care. The, so what, the reason I bring that up is, I'm hunting. So I podcasted with Matt Rinella the other day and a big part of Matt's thing. Go rewind a little bit. How did Matt Rinella get, how did you get on Matt Rinella's radar? Hang on. I think we forgot to say thank you to Gun Broker though. We got... I started... I know we started it, but then we got...

Distracted. I'm sorry for everybody listening to this show. We're awful at this. We're ready for this. We weekend. 4 43 on time. Yeah, I know. But shout out to our sponsor, gun broker if you haven't checked them out. Awesome place for new firearms. You can get loaded [00:05:00] up for your, you got plenty of time for your waterfowl season.

They do sell new and used firearms and tons of historicals, tons of other gear. So yeah. Accessories, truck cams. Check. Check out gum broker do com, gum, and our other show is now. We're gonna make that happen. No low ballers we go into some pro tips on a couple of the episodes with Dave Parrish from their team, penny auctions, rare ammo, that kind of stuff, go on there and get some tips, listen to tips from The Dave.

The Dave. I got started with Matt Ranella on, this all happened because randomly one night I decided to try a Reddit Ask Me Anything, which is when you post, you say who you are, you say what you've done, and you post it into a subreddit, which is like a trail on GoWild, if you're not familiar with that, we stole those from Reddit, that's where the idea came from and you just see what happens.

And I was confident I was going to get annihilated because Reddit is so anti self promotion. And I was a. I'm afraid it was going to be flagged as that and it wasn't. Did you post in a hunting? It's in the hunting subreddit. Yeah. And which is a sometimes nasty [00:06:00] place. Like it's read it, you can, I've been eaten alive there before and I assumed that was what was going to happen, but it actually, it was it was interesting.

But one of the things, given the fact that I was talking about, I founded the social media company. I openly said that I have, been openly In opposition to Matt Rinella's stance on social media. I did that knowing that it would probably fire up a couple people. I may have, Kick a little hornet's nest.

Yeah, I kicked a hornet's nest on that. And immediately this one guy starts firing on me. And just everything that he was throwing and lobbing off was just, it was a really poorly articulated half thought idea, but it turned in some debate around, uh, what I disagree with Matt Ronell on.

And and then, there's things I do agree with Matt Ronell. And if you don't know who we're talking about, it's Steven Ronell's brother. He made a big stink about 18 months ago around, social media and hunting and that you should stop posting dead animals online, which honestly, I don't disagree with some of his points on that.

I've been, if you've listened to our old show, restless [00:07:00] native, I've had many discussions on the downsides of gripping grins. And that was on Steve's show. That was on Steve's show. It was on blood origins. He went on there. The Steve show was nasty. Honestly, they were it got pretty heated at times.

And then he wrote a big article in. The free range American magazine about this whole thing too. And so I tried to rebuttal that in free range American and they said, no thanks. And so we posted a big rebuttal. And so anyways, out of this sub this post on Reddit, the Matt has a podcast called hunt quietly, which I didn't know about until this happened.

But they were like, Oh, you should come on here and debate us about it. So I did it the other night. And what made me think of this, while we're talking about the lease is that I'm hunting a private lease and they think that's not cool. Like they, they are very anti lease people. And that mine's on a lease.

I'm not paying like to hunt this spot. It was my friend and it's a good situation. Yeah. Which is how I've typically hunted private land is that I've had access through someone that just gives me access and it's a business. It's not like someone bought a piece of [00:08:00] property just for hunting. Yeah. It's different from a thousand acre lease that I'm paying, seven grand for, but those guys are, it's interesting cause they they're very, like I was asking them like, what should people in Texas do, man?

Texas has 2 percent public land. Texas is massive. It's the second largest state in the country. That's how you get to hunt is through private. And it's like when you start going down those rabbit hole of questions, you guys will be able to hear this. Unfortunately, Matt said they're backed up like two months.

So my show will come out with Christmas. It'll be a nice little Christmas gift for you guys, around that timeframe. But they're very, I just can't get there on their beef with They do have some good initiatives they're trying to do where they're trying to create incentives and programs where private landowners can make their land public.

And I think that's a cool initiative, but I don't have like personal beef with someone decides not to do that with property they own. I think it's your property. I'm very much a capitalist. Like you earn that you pay for that. You should be able to decide what to do with it. Now. I don't like, I'm not saying [00:09:00] I'm like, go build strip malls and, kill habitat.

That's not what I'm saying, but if it's your land and you want to lease it to somebody else, like I think you have a right to do that. Those guys would totally disagree. But it was like my biggest goal with going into this was, They are very anti posting dead animals on social media, which I am too.

But I've heard Matt say things that he thinks that this content that gets posted then turns around and goes into like animal legislation or animal rights act activist legislation or their campaigns. And they do steal the images often. But my point was, we, If we stop talking about hunting altogether and we aren't advocates for hunting, we actually have no ammunition against those campaigns.

Those campaigns aren't going to stop. If everybody tomorrow unfollowed all the influencers, which is what he wants you to do and stop posting about hunting. There is no way. That the center for biological diversity and the humane society, USA and PETA and all these groups, they're not [00:10:00] going to stop all of a sudden they, the, all those organizations, every one of them existed, pre social media, every one of them date back to the seventies and eighties or earlier, and they want to get the images, they will.

Just have to work harder. It's not even about the images. They, their whole thing. I tried to explain this to these guys. Like basically what it came down to is they think land access is the biggest problem for hunting. It's, and I get it. It's an end overcrowding and overcrowding. That's why they want more access because they Matt wants to increase the huntable.

acres per hunter, which is awesome. Who would disagree with that? But I told him, my thing is none of that matters if we don't solve this other problem, which is the, the center for biological diversity, right? This group has a massive operating budget. They have More than a hundred attorneys on staff, which is generally probably more attorneys than all of the hunting non profits combined.[00:11:00]

tHink about that. And when, and just, if that's not making sense to our listener, those non profits litigate and fight against these cases that these groups bring in. And they take funding, right? All that takes funding. And this is where another issue I have with their point of I've heard him say multiple times that we should have half as many hunters.

And I kept asking them, okay, we have half as many hunters, the, then who pays for everything that you guys want? Cause everything you want takes money. All this access you're wanting to create takes money. And people, they didn't directly say this time, but I've heard. And other conversations, it seems like they're like the shooting sports are the ones that create the Pippin Robinson dollars anyways, which is true.

They've taken over as lead, but hunting still contributes a massive amount of obviously hunters are buying a massive amount of ammunition, right? And firearms, even if you took us off the plate and you lived in this world where you had half as many hunters. It's a misunderstanding of how Pittman Robertson works, which is the act that says, it's an excise tax [00:12:00] on guns and ammunition and it's 10 and 11%.

I can't remember which one is which off the top of my head, but basically all that funding goes into a pool and then the federal government doles it out to the states based on how much land you have to. to manage. That's 50 percent of that funding. The other 50 percent is based on your tags. So how many tags are you, how many hunters are you creating?

And so if you had half as many hunters, then you lose half of your federal dollars that come out of Pippin Robertson. You, the state does not have access to it, right? So in some states. would be impacted by that less. Dan and I looked up Kentucky. Dan looked up Kentucky and Kentucky would lose.

I think it was like maybe 25 or 15 percent of its budget. But some states are severely dependent on Pittman Robinson. I was reading somewhere and I didn't have time to verify this because it was Just refreshing on some of the stuff before the show with Matt, but some it's like as low as 15%, but as high as 90% for some states.

So they're very dependent on those dollars. But then they also get in a [00:13:00] scenario where now they're having to sell the WMAs. Yeah. Some states get into that because they can't get the money, they can't afford you guys that one in Kentucky, they can't afford to manage the property. And then or for whatever reason, I don't think any state wants to do that or they own the property and they can't manage it and they're not cutting clear cuts.

in making good deer habitat or turkey habitat. Yeah, it's just turned into big woods. But if that gets bought, and then subdivided, it's never gonna be a habitat again. It'll never, if it gets turned into, if a hundred acres gets turned into twenty lots, you know what's gonna happen on that, but so that's one of my things. But the biggest one is that the I just don't think that argument is thinking through like saying that we should just walk away from social media, which Matt has come around a little bit on this. They're using social media to podcast to post about their show to try to get their message out there.

And I think his message is probably more in line with It's okay to talk about hunting, but stop posting dead stuff. That seems to be more of where he's at. The thing, there's a ton of research out there [00:14:00] that if we were talking about food, like that's the greatest thing we can do for hunting because the stats on that, and I can't remember the source of the study.

I had it for Matt's podcast. I don't have in front of me now. The, there, there was a study done and, Oh, it was by responsive management, a big research company within the hunting industry. And Responsive Management 2019 did a study that said 85 percent of people approve of hunting for food. That stat goes up to 91 percent if they know a hunter personally.

If they've eaten wild game, that stat goes up to 95 percent of people would approve of hunting. And so my thing to them is if we aren't talking about hunting and the benefits of it and what, Don't post dead animals. Let's just talk about let's just say we leave that off if we're talking about all the other stuff, whether it's conservation or the food, really that like land management, whatever, we're winning advocates all along the way.

And then as we, if every hunter right now introduced just five people a year to Wild [00:15:00] Game, like within two years, we would have half the population would be, would approve of hunting. If we stop talking about it though, these groups don't go away. They've totally mastered. The art of suing and raising money alongside of this I was talking to our buddies over at Sportsman's Alliance about how this works and what they've seen since 1985, when the Equal Rights for Justice Act was passed, which is the right that says if you sue the government and you win.

The government has to pay your legal fees. So these groups are masters at using this and they will sue based off of some kind of law that, that they're suing against. And they will start raising money alongside that. And they'll say help us protect the wolf or whatever it is. And so they start a marketing campaign. Now they're raising tens of millions of dollars all along the way to help fight the case, right? The case is going to get paid for if they win. If it doesn't, what they do often, they plan on losing these cases. They know they're going to lose, but they're prepping for the next one, which they're trying to get to a ballot.

So now if they lose, and if they win, Great, right? For them. They great. It gets paid for. They doubled their [00:16:00] more than double their money. They got the legal expenses paid and they got this marketing campaign. If they lose and it goes to a ballot, guess what they're doing now? All that money that they raised to pay for litigation is all going into marketing campaigns to work against the hunter, right?

Like it's going to funnel. These campaigns and I don't know if you guys have ever seen some of the stuff they do, but like a tactic that they'll often do to confuse the general population who doesn't follow this stuff. They'll say things like, I'll just make this one up. This is not a real example for the record.

I'll make it up. But let's say in Wisconsin, they've got this bill and they're called, it's called like the no hunting wolf bill. Wolves, you already can't hunt wolves in Wisconsin, but they'll say things like hunters shouldn't be allowed to hunt wolves. And like in Wisconsin, it's it's already a fact that you can't, right.

They're considered endangered, but they'll use this slippery language. That they're really good at these soundbites and people hear that. And man, you really shouldn't be able to hunt wolves. It's that wasn't what it was ever about. Though it would be some kind of ancillary.

Initiative with trapping or something or whatever it is. I'm just, again, I'm [00:17:00] just making up a fictitious example here, but they'll use this, these, they're really good at sound bites and fundraising and they use social media. Honestly, the explosion of litigation that has happened is probably like a lot of it can probably be attributed to how good they are at social media because they have these massive followings.

They can use it for fundraising really well. Fundraising has gotten super easy with the, the internet. It's not like you're having to listen to Sarah McLachlan commercials on TV and remember the phone number and call and donate whatever over the phone. Like it's super easy. You hit a link and you can give them your credit card and they just take that out every month.

But the, the other thing I've tried to hammer into these guys is this wasn't anti hunting was not an advent of social media. It's like Sportsman's Alliance was created in 1970 to combat these issues. And since then it has skyrocketed on because it's gotten really politicized and these groups have gotten really organized, that center for biological diversity group I was talking about, they started in 1985 with three people.

And now they're the ones I was telling you have this like multi hundred. Million dollar budget that they're doing and that's one group. I'm not even [00:18:00] talking about PETA or Humane Society, you know I find the humor in the name of that organization Oh, yeah that if they go out and they stop hunting seasons, it's gonna cause overpopulations of certain biodiversity that is going to Kill or put down other species.

That's the other thing that happens. So a lot of, predators are an easy one to go after because they, it's really a hot button issue, right? Even you'll hear hunters argue about whether or not you should hunt predators. But part of the tactic is they know if they can protect the predator, the ungulate population gets hit while it gets hit.

And now we have fewer deer numbers, elk numbers, whatever. And now there's fewer hunters 'cause the, they can't release as many tags. Yeah. So it's an indirect it's not just taking that one species off it, they know it's going to impact the hunted population, like the big game that everybody's really after.

'cause predator, hunting's a small portion of hunting overall, but they know that's part of their goal is to have this indirect, hit, everything that they do. Is it's not about they plan this stuff out decades in advance. [00:19:00] They know it's going to take three years to get something to a ballot.

And like they're building the steps all along the way. And meanwhile, we're over here underfunded and undermanned and, trying to respond and thank God we have a group like sports and alliance that keeps track of the stuff. They track 1300 initiatives this year. And I, on Matt's show, I went through cause I was like, I'm trying to hammer home.

That we can't stop talking about hunting. This is a given this false sense of security that like if we just unfollow hunting influencers Everything's fixed and then you know, and they think a lot of the tag crowding comes from influencers I'm like, I don't know. Maybe it does that like that part of it Maybe part of what I want to do Why I want to go out west is because i've seen how fun it looks right?

Like i've seen that content and so like I have a hard time arguing against that really but to say that like The anti hunting movement is because of the social media and the grip and grins. It's just not true. Or to say if your fish and wildlife department for your state X amount of tags and people get those tags.

[00:20:00] That's somehow those people's fault. Yeah. It's behind that. It's not like they're just coming up. We want to make so much money, so we're going to put 200 tags. And if it is, we want to make so much money, then talk to your fish and wildlife department for your state and say, Hey, we're only getting 50 percent success rates on turkey hunts.

We need to decrease the number of tags or how many, your bag limits or whatever. You don't go after the people that are saying, Oh, you're offering a tag for, 150 bucks. Okay. I'll take you up on that. You don't want to make you a bad guy. If I was out West and I was a resident, I would want to cut down the non resident.

The non resident in some States out there over the last 10 years, it's up a 100%. There's no doubt that's happening. Yeah. From the economic side, it brings more revenue than just the tag. Yeah. But what's funny is, I talked to these guys about this and I was trying to tell them, I'm like, hunting pressure is not a problem like it is for you guys everywhere.

And they don't agree with me. And I meant to ask them if they've actually hunted out East, at all. There was a lot of things I meant to ask them, the debate went all over the place. But it's just not in [00:21:00] Kentucky, man. And it was funny cause Matt was like, I just heard you talking to a guy in Michigan about how pressured your hunt was.

I was like, Oh no. That was a private land hunt. I knew he was talking about where I used to hunt deer. And it's yeah, man, I heard 200 shots in opening day in gun season. But there's still plenty of deer. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, it's like there's no like less opportunity. Maybe there's not as many trophies, but I've seen plenty of good deer.

I just didn't get the pop on them. He's so do you want more? And I'm like, I'm not saying that, but I'm saying it's not a problem here. Like you guys think it is everywhere. And there's parts of the East that certainly have room for more hunters. There's just no doubt there are some States.

I saw Alabama. I was looking at Alabama's data on this dashboard that Dan sent me and Alabama is a state that's had a big surge. And I don't know what that's about. I don't know. I would have to like, there's so many things that correlate to that. And some of it's bad data, man. There's some States you'll see a trend line.

And then all of a sudden it just tanks and it's not a COVID. thing or some black swan event. It's like some of these states are just the data is bad. And so it's really hard to like, start making observations. I just think it's dangerous the way they're like [00:22:00] since 2016, we can, you can plot the Matt's all about plotting the shows and their growth and then the growth of the Western the tags.

But I'm like, okay, if I did that same thing right now, and I should have used this example on him. If I plotted. Starting in January, I'm going to plot how much ice cream gets eaten a year. Okay. I'm going to do this across the nation. And I put a plot that ice cream chart and then I plotted pool drownings.

You know what you would see? You would see that ice cream eating goes up at the same time that pool drowning start to go up and it comes back down when pool drownings stop happening. And it's that's cause summer, man. It's not like kids eat ice cream and drown in a pool causation is not correlation.

That's where I think like a lot of what they're doing. Is dangerous in how they're presenting the data. And they're snipping it to start in 2016, because on that dashboard we looked at, which went back to the, I don't know, the 60s or something it peaked in the 80s, it dropped down, and now it's getting back up to the 1980s.

Now the other, it's less, [00:23:00] there's probably less land available. A lot of those states are flat, though. A lot of them are down. It's just not... I even had, I posted about the, I listened to the Randy Newberg show that they had and I posted about and put some of my comments out there and there's another dude that hunts Eastern Kentucky and he laughed.

He's dude, hunting pressure here is not what it is out West. I was out bow hunting the other day or I was scouting. I wasn't even hunting yet. And on public land and I didn't see a soul. Oh, there was 53, 000 acres of access and I was at the front of it and I didn't see a soul How many states are they talking about because out west is that's general.

I mean They think all 50 states are have high hunting pressure I literally I ask them i'm like what states and they're like all of them I mean, I just don't agree with it, man. Like it's just not my experience here. It's not if you live Generally in the east, there's, there is public land access.

Yeah, Kentucky's a little state with only 4 percent public land, but Kentucky is a four hour drive across the whole stupid state. Like this is not Oh, what was [00:24:00] me? I can't hunt. Like you can totally go hunt for the weekend if you want to, I think a lot of this is people complaining that they've lost their spot that they've driven 30 minutes to their whole life which is about the average that average hunter drives to their hunting spot, but Dan over here is a Hate the term but that's what everybody says but adult onset hunter and he's figuring it out He's driving hours to go scout and hang trail cameras and stuff.

It's like Dan hasn't had any access issues He's got other DMW maize that are close by 30 minutes away that he's hunted And when he buys his boat next year, he's going to have even more opportunities. Yeah. Yeah. I think the difference with me is I'm going into it with the expectation of I might be out there for three days straight, and not see a deer, and will I still have fun doing it?

Yes. And if your expectation is every time you go out, you're gonna get a ton of opportunities, and you're definitely gonna, get some sort of monster buck. Those days might be over, that's how the same way I'm fishing, you call it fishing, not catching when I'm not shooting.

It's [00:25:00] like literally most, I'm not shooting. I, this is, I fished way more than I normally do this year and I was terrible. Like I just horrible luck all year. It's been, it was a weird catch as much this year either. Yeah. I royally sucked. I'm, yeah. I'm embarrassed to say how bad it was, the I've listened to a decent amount of his content now and I told them, I'm like, I think you got, I really believe this.

I think you guys are doing a good thing for conversation. Like I, I listened to Randy Newberg and I, he's challenging Randy on you should be presenting better content for the presentation of hunting. But I hear Matt say things like, influencers have decided we need more hunters and they're all in the R3 movement, but they didn't ask us.

But the flip side of that is they've already spoken for what kind of content they want. Why do you think these videos that Randy says it, he's like when I posted an elk video. It will have 20, 000 views in an hour if it has a dead elk in it. When I post a video about conservation and Randy, he does a cool thing where he requires that 40, I think it's 40 [00:26:00] percent of his videos have to be about conservation.

He said, if I post those, they get 800 views, like lifetime. He said, people don't want that. It's this whole like, What do people want? I'm like that's why these guys get popular is because people want to see what Randy Newberg is doing. They want to see Steven Rinella. And I think there's some interesting conversations that Matt brings up about some shows don't show at all.

And that's true. I know it's true. Cause I know people that have, wounded, not talked about it on shows or whatever. But I think when I look at like Steve show, Nick Hoffman. With what he does, like going into a new area, a new country or whatever, and talking about the culture and learning about the history of the animal you're hunting that's putting hunting in a good light.

I told Matt that I'm like, dude, twice this week, twice I've seen venture capitalists talk about your brother and how they want to find the next Steven Urnella. And he's that's the last thing we need is a venture capitalist in hunting. And I'm like, I knew he was going to say that, but I'm like, I get that.

I get your point. But the, [00:27:00] my point being that we've we're at a point now where they're hunting has become friendly enough to where a VC would consider investing in it. And Steve's raised a butt ton of money for meat eater. So they already are investing in it, but I'm saying it's makes, it's made it palatable, like in some ways we are winning that, that impression of what it is to be a hunter, but it's through good content, like Matt's totally right.

Don't post your deer picture with beer cans in the truck and the dead tongue hanging, or the tongue flopping out and blood everywhere. You look like a maniac. And it's that's what, I, you could show me that picture, Jacob, and I would be like, dude, that's a great book. And I wouldn't think about any of that stuff, right?

That, and that's Matt's point, like showing your friends is cool, but when you post it out there with no context, it hurts hunting, and I'm like, truthfully, like 60 percent of his points that he makes around this kind of stuff, I agree with him dead on. It's the 40 percent that we disagree on, like I talked to him, I'm like, they talk a lot about it's almost like downsizing the industry is what they want, and I ask him about this and.

they didn't have a good answer on it. I'm like, are, are everything we love is [00:28:00] valuable because it has a multi billion dollar industry behind it. Like politicians care because we have that purchase power. And if you take all that away and we have half the hunters and industries, like fractions of what it was like, does anybody care anymore?

Does anybody care? To me, you're going to lose hunting access and hunting rights, which is way worse than land access. Exactly. Like the reason we can win these fights that we're in right now is because we have active hunters. We have people that vote to approve this stuff. But if we cut all that down just to open up more, A, Now when access issues come up, who's voting for it?

If half the people were participating and, you, that's 7 million people spread across the planet or the country, man. That's there's probably more people that quilt in their spare time than hunt at that point. Like how irrelevant is our audience becoming? 7 million people is not a lot of people spread across 50 States too.

So I just, I really struggle still with a lot of the like key points they seem to make on that show. But I told him, I'm like, [00:29:00] I hope you keep doing this. And I, my, one of my biggest takeaways from him or for him, I was like, I hope you guys will figure out like how to make this messaging more presentable because you can't come after the industry.

Like they, they were complaining because brands won't respond to them. I'm like, yeah, cause you're like, Coming after them, trying to downsize the industry is how it sounds like you guys need to work on how you're positioning this, make it a real movement, give it some marketability to it. You can't like right now, I feel like everything's operating under honestly like extremist language and it's getting attention.

It's creating conversation, but that's only going to build so much momentum. Like it's just, you're going to get people on the fringe. You need to, if you're going to really make a movement and change things, you got to get everybody bought in and using combative language like going after campaigns.

I just don't see like what the stop hammering. They keep laying into that language They got shirts now that are anti campaigns and i'm like picking on campaigns does not help us like this is Fragmenting us actually I think we're actually now weakening ourselves To my whole point is like we need to be figuring out how to get on the same page [00:30:00] That's what the anti hunting groups want.

They're okay with this. They don't spend a dollar to do anything about us just fighting with each other. Watch us piss and moan and yell at each other over crossbows and thousand yard shots and all this stuff. And I don't know. It was interesting. I, Matt did say he likes elements of what we do at Go Wild, but then he, I think he told me at the end, I'm part of the problem because I have a platform where people post dead shit online that they that you don't, to people you don't know.

And I'm like, yeah, but it's in a closed network. And a lot of the people on Reddit were the same way. They started out upset and then you could tell they didn't know what go wild was. And they were like, Oh, I just downloaded the app or Oh, I just went to the website and it's actually pretty cool. And I'm gonna open an account.

Yeah. Yeah. It's Oh one thing they hammered me on and I knew they were going to, but I stopped hammering. One thing, they stopped hammering me, I don't know. They hit me pretty hard over the I told them about how, my whole thing since the beginning is like meeting kids where they are, which is on screens, and helping them understand the outdoors through an app can get them outside and off the screens.

[00:31:00] And the the other guy, but they were both named Matt, so it's super confusing, not Ronella, was like if you're getting kids to get rewards to get stickers to, and that's why they fish, isn't that for the wrong reasons? I'm like, They start for that. Nobody continues that to get windstickers. I'm getting them that experience.

Like dads are messaging me and saying my daughter never wanted to fish with me But now we have a go out app and she'll go and she enjoys it Yeah, we give rewards for just logging time fishing for leaving reviews on lures it's not just about the only way to get points, but I knew they were gonna hammer me on that But I was like i'm not gonna try to hide what we are, it's like I've been hit over the trophy system.

People are like you're incentivizing people to go kill the biggest thing. And I'm like, we also have a doe log. Who else ever has a trophy log for a doe or a cow elk? Like it's just, it's a totally different system. And I'm not going to apologize for what we've done. Cause I think we've gotten a lot of people into the outdoors that wouldn't have been there otherwise.

And at the same token, like it, it gives credit to people that don't go shoot a ginormous buck. To be part of the conversation, part of the [00:32:00] mix. I hate seeing people saying, not the biggest, it's no man, this is go wild. You can post whatever you want. I posted toothpicks one time.

You can do this. I told him that story. All right guys, it's Friday. We're at 34 minutes. It's Friday at five 12. And these guys want some brewskis. I can just fill it. Do you already have it, Risky? We already started. Yeah, we had a conference call and... It's alright, we'll hear from the show. Yeah, you could have, when do you get a beer sponsor? That's a good one. Country Boy. Country Boy. I literally almost said that. Country Boy, sponsored by... Country Boy, if you're listening. Sponsored by Gun Broker and Alcohol. That doesn't sound super great. In that order is okay. Yeah. Yeah, okay. That's true. Yeah, you can go, like the shooting events you'll go to, they'll let you shoot first, but then you can drink.

Yeah. Yeah, so we'll, We're open to that country boy. Cause I know you guys are listening. I'm sure after this very professional podcast, you're very interested in sponsoring us. It'd be more fun if we had a little buzz. We got to go. All right, guys. It was a Dan hood, Jacob Knight and Ron Brett Luttrell.

Thanks for listening to log this. Go to your go wild at. App hit the plus sign, log time, [00:33:00] outdoor podcasts. And you'll see us up top there, uncensored podcasts. You can also log your other podcasts. You're listening to, you can log no low ballers, or you can log your meat eaters or whatever you're listening to on the go out app that gets you points.

When you get points, you can go into the shop and use those rewards. You're earning all along the way. We got five. 10 percent coupons. You get stickers, all kinds of good stuff. Blaze launch hat and vest. We did just launch a gunbroker. com blaze and vest. It's pretty sweet. So that's actually getting ready to roll out today.

It might be sold out by the time you guys check. Probably. Yeah. Sorry. It's going to go down. You can look at everybody else's pictures of it. Yeah. That's right. Go on your app and look at what you missed out on because you weren't using the app every day. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thanks y'all. Bye.