Summer Deer Talk

Show Notes

Perfect summer episode to get you ready for deer season.  We give an update on the mobile hunter road show.  The items on our August to do list.  A break through in my stick bow shooting.  Dave and Byron discuss the newer hunters getting into the game.  What gear they would buy and how they would change what they did back 15 years ago.  The learning curve is changed forever.  What shooting practices we need to do before season.

Topics Discussed:

- getting lost in the woods

- pre GPS hunting

- ground hong with the stick bow

- hunting 2 sticks high

- summer prep

- crazy hunting height

- last generation of woodsman

- buck rubs

Check out the Sportsmen's Empire Podcast Network for more relevant outdoor content!

Show Transcript

[00:00:00] Go Wild is a free social community created for and by Hunters. This means that unlike mainstream social media, your trophy pictures won't be censored. They're encouraged. As you spend time on Go Wild. You will earn awesome rewards such as gift cards, free swag, and big discounts on brands like Garmin and Vortex.

You will even earn $10 just for signing up. Visit, download, go and sign up today. All right. This is the Whitetail Experience Podcast, a Dave Byron Coffee, BS s whitetail related prep related time of year, what we've been doing, what we've been seeing. Just a solid Saturday morning recording. We did record this outside, I feel, gives it a little Saturday morning Birds of chirping type vibes.

Just got back from the Mobile Hunter Expo in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Ran up there for a single day mission to help X O P with the booth. Shoot some [00:01:00] videos. All that jazz and solid show. I would compare it as far as like size and our Ohio listeners to 40 ish percent of the Deer and Turkey Expo, maybe 50.

As far as like vendor and just size of room or whatever. But I will say this, every vendor was quality. There wasn't the guy selling insurance and seven beef jerky distributors. It was mystery Ranch packs a couple den, and a really higher end cooler company, a thousand different, manufacturers of sticks and saddle platforms and that kind of stuff obviously is the wheelhouse of the show, but, You know the other companies there there was a Broadhead company.

There was mobile hunting accessory companies. There was, trying to think what else. Oh, painted arrow, the new phone mount film your hunt type product that, I actually picked one of those up from a stick bow. Yeah, like just the quality of [00:02:00] vendor was definitely there. They had a pretty good turnout of some of the speaker ones and maybe I feel like more people sat for those seminars than sit for the deer and Turkey seminars, considering there's hundreds, if not thousands, more people through the door.

So yeah, Chris and the whole guys that put that show on solid, from my perspective, only being there, I don't know, let's call it eight hours. So yeah. The other thing I have on my agenda here is I just put up a August, oh dear prep, what we got going on, or me personally and my focus really for the month of August, I really hope to be able to get out here and hang another batch of cameras and then some small farm type prep on the home ground, if you will.

I think that could be a a productive piece maybe this season. And then, yeah, shooting the stick bow. Dude, I had a breakthrough in the stick bow last night where I was reading some stuff on, on, on a couple forms. I watched a couple YouTube [00:03:00] videos and I was really struggling. I feel like with my release, my pluck and maybe a little bit of a collapse not activating my back muscles all the way through the break.

It's funny, when I met with Logan on my second lesson, I was like, dude, if I had just like a release. That would just make the shot go. I feel like I can aim, draw, and like account for a lot of things, but like I felt like my letting the arrow go moment was maybe the weakest part of my whole process.

Not being super familiar with the stick bow game, but that's what I was explaining to him. And yeah, last night and even today I shot I dunno, six, eight arrows here already. And I think I got something figured out which would be key. Other than that, I'd like to thank my Patreon guys.

I just put another scouting type video trail cam video from infield up there. I plan to do a little more there as well. Oh, I put up my last bow hunting season film on YouTube. Check that out. I think it's called like rough season. I don't know. You can look it up. It's doing okay as far as views. Not [00:04:00] over the top.

Not great, but yeah I just, I put that out there. Some of my encounters, the sheds I find under the stands on there, the day they went bananas in the woods where I saw a, handful of grunting chasing, bee bopping, three or four bucks, one buck, just ripping grunts. I do wish I'd have captured that one a little more on film, but I.

Yeah, I put that out there on YouTube and a couple people really like it. So appreciate you guys checking that out and that let's get to the podcast. Sweet. We are live. This is a coffee recorded podcast, not beer. It is Saturday morning. Dave has joined me on my back patio shed area, bow range, gun Range.

This is a do all space. Yeah, there's a lot of shit out here. Buck photo spot. This is we're, I'm back. It is a Saturday morning. Dave said I got time to do a Coffee and deer podcast that's what we're gonna do today. Yeah. You were [00:05:00] just debating rain gear. Yeah. Yeah, we were just talking about it because yeah.

'cause we got that Western trip, obviously. Me and Rick are going out west and to hunt elk and if you research it and stuff, everybody online is you have to have rain gear. It's a must have, it could be life or death and blah, blah, blah. And I'm just, so I've went twice now.

I think I had a rain jacket in the truck that never left the truck. We, hell, we got into a couple of rainstorms and so did me and Andy. And it's just if you got your tent with you just. Pitch a tent where you're at and take cover. Yeah, ride it out. I think if it was like spritzing or lighter rain.

Yeah. We had garments to like semi put up with it and then we always had a couple extra like core layers back at camp once we started spike camping, if you will. Yeah. And if it, that would be the thing, if it's gonna be like spitting soft rain like all day, like I'd wanna still hunt versus what we got caught in were downpours.

Yeah, then they were they were in and out, so it was, it's not like you'd be hunting that shit anyways. I don't know, [00:06:00] maybe the campaigns of the world might be hunting in a downpour, but I think I'm gonna just pitch my tent and hang out for an hour. Yeah. I remember when I went west in 2017 that the conditions that had fires burning and no rain for one and a half, two months.

Day I get there, rain projected for four straight days, and I, it was an outfitted hunt. I was like, go figure. What'd you, so what'd you do? How did you just walk around soaked or did you have, you didn't have rain gear then? One day it snowed ish and we built a fire in, up on the mountain.

Like the guide w just cold. So we had a bugling bull that went from like 400 to 200 ish is what my guide was telling me. And we thought we were gonna pull 'em in and hopefully get a crack. And then the storm rolled in the mountain and he's we can either leave or build a fire and if it lets up we can keep hunting, and I was like I was like, let's just keep hunting maybe, and you're within range of a bull. And no, we blown the opportunity. The, so he somewhat closed the distance and then the wind went towards him and he got quieter. So we don't know if he smelled me or the calves or the [00:07:00] cows or like whatever yeah.

It was just like a Turkey all of a sudden gobbled on a different mountain, the best way to describe it. But you were still in the action, so he wanted to stay out there. I, yeah. Yeah. I was like, I don't wanna go back to the truck or nothing. We trekked up there and let's just, so we built a fire and hung out there for three or four hours and then it led up and we hunted a few different.

Areas or whatever. We did some calling and rest of the day was the rest of the day. But yeah, I didn't have good rain gear then either. Were you just wet all day? I had like water resistant ish clothes. And did he have big time rain gear on? I don't remember. Maybe I don't. I don't remember.

It was snowing and we had some other rainy type days that. I don't know. Like I was just hunting. I remember I had those nars and on the first day I'd walked through so much brush that was water coated and I don't think it was raining, like they were soaked through and through. Yeah, that's, yeah.

And then so then what do do you get rain pants too? And then you're walking through stuff? I can't imagine rain pants would hold up walking through any kind of brush. Yeah. [00:08:00] Even the best of the best stuff, I wouldn't think. But so I'm debating on just getting one good.

Jacket. Like a quality one? Yeah. Which are pricey. They're 2 53 to three 50 for a good one. Are you talking like some of the like non-hunting brand? No, I'm talking like I, I guess I was looking at hunting brand stuff. Okay. Like KU first light. Yeah. And then they also have, and then all those companies have options.

They have lightweight rain gear and they have like heavyweight rain gear, which I would imagine the heavyweight rain gear would be. Yeah I like a lot. It could actually, would work better, sure. I've had lightweight rain jackets in the past, I feel like you, I feel like you still get wet if you get soak soaked.

Yeah. I've thought about this. Buying like a military poncho, like a true, like rubber poncho and just take it when you, the conditions are possible. This is more for whitetail hunting. This is because I think that would be heavy as shit and not packed very well. But my thought is okay like you're going for a hunt in October and it's gonna stop raining at closing time.

Yeah. So you walk into the woods with that poncho on. You can brush against stuff. You can be in the woods in a full downpour. Once that stops, you [00:09:00] take that off. And you're hunting in like regular gear. Yeah. 'cause the best, everybody knows if you're out there white to hunting and you get a rain, as soon as that rain lets up, them deer just are everywhere.

Yeah. They, I don't know. They just get up, want to shake off and they'd just get up and want to just stretch their legs. But after a rain is like some of the best hunting I've ever seen. Yeah. And I work in a city where there's deer everywhere and it's the same thing there too.

Even in the summer. Yeah. After a rain. There's, it could be two o'clock, or right after if it's rain for a while, there's deer everywhere. Yeah. Now you've been you've been doing some shooting too. My bow just a little bit. Yeah. Start, starting to ramp it up a lot more now, I did have to dust it off. I didn't shoot for probably like four months. You didn't shoot for the whole month of June, but yet, I don't know. I did shoot for frigging probably March, April, may. At least June. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah. Normally I think, I don't really shoot all that much. The compound in the spring months anymore.

Yeah. We used to a lot more when we had more time and no kids. Yeah. I have been poking around my recurve a little bit, just 'cause I can shoot [00:10:00] that in the backyard. See, I live in the city so I can't. I can't go outside and shoot. Yeah, you're the closest place I could shoot. And with that detour, that's screwing us.

Yeah. The road closes. It's literally like six to eight minutes, especially if you catch a light. Yeah, from my house to Dave's house. But now there's this detour and it's like a. 15 to 17 minute drive. You're like, motherfucker. Yeah. It's supposed to be done any day. They said 45 days started June 5th. It's late July.

Come on folks. But yeah, I can, so I can come down here and shoot. So that's not, but then order just the the metro park over there, that's, it's a solid 20. Maybe ish, by the time you weave Bob, 'cause the archery isn't a far back. Yeah. So by the time you get in there and gotta go 15 miles an hour through the whole damn park I got, I added a three D target recently.

Yeah. And then I just shot it just once. Heart shot 38 yards, quarter away. David's ready. But yeah I bought the, so I, I asked Shannon long, who lives around the corner, big deer hunter and he's got I think probably eight ten three D targets of various animals. And I said, Hey, what do [00:11:00] you think?

I found a big shot dough on sale. They're, they was a little bit sticker shock. I thought they'd be 200 ish bucks or whatever. But I saw a couple different brands from the Glendale, big shot Reinhardt, Reinhart. They were all 3, 3 50. Like I was like, shit, or McKenzie, that's a big one. Yeah.

And I found this guy on sale for 2, 2 50, something like that. And free shipping. Because that was the other thing he said. He said, watch out when you see those good deals on Cam fire. He goes, they ain't that good. 'cause you get ro roly screwed with shipping and it's like a big dough. It's not like a, it's full size dough.

Yeah. Because there's what's the, there's another brand that makes the cheapos. Reinhardt makes like a lot of one third elk. Yeah. That's for sale everywhere. And dude, that's like a Labrador. Dustin has one. Yeah. It's it's not much smaller than that I guess, but it's one third elk. Yeah. It's SSS load too.

It does. Got weird legs. Short legs. Yeah. Yeah, I, so my I got a stand over there about eight, 10 foot off the ground. I've been shooting a stick bow elevated at like 15 yards just to get some practice with that. Have you been shooting that right there? Yeah,[00:12:00] and I'm decent and then sometimes I'll walk out.

I, this week I've shot one arrow practice, so I only take one arrow out and I shoot like the first target's 13 and then cube to cube's 15. And then from cube to, to dough on the ground. If I don't move, it's like 11. And so I'll just take one arrow and I'll walk up and down shooting those different things.

Sometimes I'll go rogue and step over here behind the tree. Hell, I'm, I got that groundhog the other night. Yeah, no, he can sneak and do you think he's dead underneath the shed somewhere? Oh, he is dead as a doornail man. There was so much blood. I put a, like a v p a three blade. Yeah. You shot too expensive ass broadheads.

It was towards the shed. It was a sketchy situation. Gotta put a hole in the shed. Yeah. Ruin your $30 broad head, or what do those things cost? Yeah. But dude, that sneak to, to kill him took me like 10, 15 minutes. I came around that side and weaving bob and sneaking with the crocs.

On the groundhogs, it the way where your sheds situated on that hill. It's like a dire need that they gotta go. [00:13:00] Yeah. Yeah. It's not a debate because if they start digging under there too much Yeah. Your shed's gonna fall in the river. Yeah. Yeah. Whoever put the shed up who lived here before me, they didn't leave no cushion.

They could have pulled that thing out like another six foot and we'd have had a lot more like insurance. Yeah. But it is literally cinder block away. A, a cave in Groundhog Tunnel away from being in the the river. But, yeah. And then that's but so you saw him out here and then you just, he, you were able to just get behind some trees or sneak up.

So I missed him from the trash cans at 45 with the compound. 'cause he was down here, dude, there's an arrow somewhere in the abyss that it broadhead and all, they like bounced off this concrete paver where we're recording and skipped into the back. And he came out 10 minutes later because he didn't go under, he didn't really know what happened.

And I was like I'm gonna grab the stick and maybe I'll go around the other side and try and get close. And yeah, snuck up, got 12, 13 yards and I Where was he? He was right in here. He was Oh, about where those and you were just one tree at a time sneaking. Yeah, so [00:14:00] I got low 'cause you know that some of that brush is in his line of sight, especially if he's only one foot off the ground.

And put the mohican sneak on. I thought the chickens were gonna gimme away 'cause they were bebopping a little more. They're like, did you shoot kneeling? No, I stood up. You slid behind that tree. Yeah, I used the tree snake mode and smacked him. Have you done a lot of shooting with that recur from the ground?

Standing yes, but not kneeling, like Yeah, kneeling and stuff. Yeah. That's probably something I need to do. Although I planned to, to hunt. Elevated Just two sticks. We were talking before this. Yeah. You and I were thinking two sticks with those double eights and we literally did quick math. We can hang the first stick, seven foot, second foot, seven foot, and then put a one foot gap to the stand.

You. 15 feet pretty quick. Yeah. At your feet. Yeah. 15 at your feet. Yeah. That's plenty high. Especially October leaves, cover. Yeah. Because you can only stand it stick so high. You gotta be able to reach up to hang it. Yeah. The button can only be on a long arm fella. Yeah. Seven, eight foot [00:15:00] max.

Yeah, exactly. I, people post about that stuff all the time about these crazy heights that they're getting, occasionally on Facebook sees videos and I'm just like, eh. I call a little bit of bullshit. Yeah. Especially, in a hunting situation, it's and, but yeah, but that wouldn't be nice though to stick it, like I said, I might just use the muddies that way I don't have to deal with the button.

I can just clip it through the thing and as high as I can reach, because that's pretty much at that point in time with a double eighter. We're pretty tall. You're basically as high as you can hang your stick. That's your line. Yeah. It's not like the reaching abilities. It's as pretty much as high as I can reach it to hang.

It is the problem. I have zero desire to one stick. In fact, I think now with the sticks being as light as they are, the long eighter, like if you're one stick, I just don't see how that's like an effective measure. If you think a deer might be with an eyesight because of all the movement. Because you had to and not like super controlled movement.

Yeah. And 'cause you have to you have to basically tether in. Then hang on your tether. And then pull that stick up between your legs and hang it again. Yeah. [00:16:00] The inchworm type, yeah. Effect to get up at tr I just think that's a lot of extra like movement that's not as controlled as traditional hanging one stick, two stick, and the fact now the sticks are, so light, two sticks, 14 foot, if you just want a minimalist setup.

Yeah. You're looking at carrying a pound and a half, two pound sticks and it's like a lot more. I feel like you you're doing a lot more work. To get that one, to do one stick, I would say. So you're putting in more physical effort to hang it. Why? I would just rather waste the physical effort on carrying an extra three pounds.

What's three pounds? What are you gonna feel? Three pounds anyways, yeah. You take a good dump that morning and you're losing three pounds. It's I don't. Yeah, I, but I've said this for ever since we started a podcast. Yeah. I'm like, just carry the extra fucking stick.

Yeah. What's the, don't film your hunt. What's the reason for all this, yeah. Strap a GoPro to your stabilizer. Call it good. Stop bringing, yeah. Or yeah. Or people got elaborate, knives and first aid kits and all this other shit, and they're whites all packed when you're going a quarter mile from the road.

And it's to shed some weight there, yeah. [00:17:00] Yeah I'm with you there. Anything else Major on the docket as far as, you said you gotta get stand? Yeah, I don't even have a stand right now. Do you have a old like a cast lone wolf or X o b? No. You have no stand, so I know I got an old, like a big a big cheap that I bought for when Nicki goes with me.

It's like a big dog, I think, which I would take it, I wouldn't care to. It's, it is a little heavy, but it ain't that bad. Yeah. And I got a I got a couple of saddle platforms. Okay. So I'll probably be saddle hunting for the most part is my, and or I'll just buy one of those xps.

Yep. Yeah. Or steal one of yours. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, you, I gotta prototype that. I tested last year. You'd have the Mr. Broderick and Deer Hunter Podcast. Kevin did a cool podcast recently, but something I thought that was very interesting from Brian was the saddle thing and Brian's tinkered with arrows and broadheads and all that stuff, but he made a point that I bring up all the time.

Yeah. So all summer you spend shooting your bow, [00:18:00] standing on the ground. Yeah. And very identical to standing in a tree stand. And now you're gonna cant and lean in a saddle. And I just, I don't know, man. I doubt most guys, are practicing like that every single time. Maybe doing it once a week on the weekend or whatever.

But yeah, I think there, that is a thought. I don't know. I've never shot a bow from a saddle. I've saddle a hundred numerous times and I don't think I have either. Andy killed a couple deer from a saddle. He killed that buck for sure. Did he kill the dog the week before? He might've, yeah, from the saddle.

You could stand pretty vertical though. Some people depends on how you hunt out the saddle, yeah. When I saddle hunt, I basically stand and I'm just, I'm pretty, pretty vertical for the most part. 'cause that's just more comfortable to me. And then occasionally I'll just bend my knees just to give my knees a little bit of a relief.

But a lot of people do that full sit down mode too. And then, Yeah, there are some people who pictures and stuff, videos, people lean way back. I'm more pretty vertical, so I don't know if it would make that [00:19:00] big a difference. Sure. Or do you just practice or do you just occasionally go shoot off the saddle and realize you're still shooting Just fine.

Yeah. And then you just, so you just call it good. And do you, and that way you don't have to necessarily practice out of it 'cause you're like, I've shot standing for, months and months. I went, jumped in the saddle shot just fine out of it. Yeah. I'm confident enough to call it good.

Yeah. And especially a, let's just call it in inside 30 yards deer killed inside timber range. That's not a terrible, I imagine you gotta take a peek at your bubble level, yeah. Which, I would probably say that sometimes on deer, I probably don't do that. Do you look at your bubble?

You think every time you shoot a deer? So my mantra when I pull the compound is bubble and then pin. And I say Hold it. Keep it. Yeah. And on. Keep it. I start to squeeze. We're gonna pause Jones. Top soil. Top soil. There you go. Driving a truck down the road. That's the, somebody's doing work today there's been two dump trucks come down the road in the last 30 minutes.

Somebody's got the job to do. Yeah, but we were just saying shooting on saddle. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it's that big a deal or [00:20:00] not, but Yeah. It's a good point to make. Yeah. Yeah. I don't shoot it. Prior to this year with the potential stick bow, I've never really been like, oh, I need to shoot elevated before season.

I think my first compound season, I had a Martin, I'd go over to my dad's and he had an elevated back patio, and I'd throw my cube down there and shoot, I don't know, I was probably 12, 14 foot off the ground. Yeah, I think it's just, I think you need to do it like at some point in time before seasoned and just make sure that you're that it's it, it's equivalent, but I don't think it needs to be done all the time.

So you can elevate it like that? No, mix it in every once in a while. It's just not logistically like doable. No, most people don't have a tree with a target, with a setup, Yeah. And time. You gotta be able to mess around for a bit. I got, when I shoot here, I go put a saddle actually on a saddle harness.

And that way I'm tethered. 'cause the last thing I wanna do is take a face plant from 10 foot up in your backyard. Yeah. It is just a lot going on when you're shooting five [00:21:00] arrows at a time. I pull five arrows up or four arrows up and shoot 'em all and then go retrieve them. I guess if you're gonna leave that there, that's another thing too.

Yeah. You gotta go get your arrows constantly. It's just Yeah, up and down, up down. If you're gonna shoot there a lot, you could you could put in like a permanent tether up there, yeah. So I have a bow rope ready to go, a couple of hooks in the tree to hold the bow. I can stretch and lean up and hang the stick bow from the ground so I don't even have to pull it up.

Yeah. And I come around the other side and I basically can get in there pretty quick. You can see from your balcony too. Over the chicken coop. Yeah. Or just even just your one goes to take off on a random flight. And then where the way your backyard has this hill coming down too.

Even staying up there in your driveway is slightly, yeah. A little bit downhill. But yeah, yeah I definitely don't shoot as much as I probably should, but I usually ramp it up quite a bit before, before gun season, before a trip. And you were saying too, you felt you weren't overthinking your shooting.

Right now, because you're not you haven't been overshooting, if [00:22:00] you'll what it feels like. Yeah, I've had, I've dabbled with target panic over the last few years it seems and I didn't shoot for, yeah, I didn't shoot for four months or so, and now I come out, here just last couple weeks and I've been shooting more and I'm shooting perfectly fine.

And I don't even feel like the urge to punch the trigger. 'cause at times I've had to like, talk myself out of punching the trigger, but now it's not even really it's not even like a feeling I have anymore. So maybe just, I just had to take a little break and take a little break, get myself away from that, get that outta my mind.

But did you ever you had mentioned maybe looking at you like the single pen, but you also have thought about the easy V. The crotch style. I looked at it. I didn't look into it though. Yeah. Did we talked about it a little bit last time we were here, weren't we? Yeah. Somebody had, how does that, I don't, do you even, are you familiar with how it even works?

So it's like the, it self ranges too, but it's essentially a, a V that tapers towards the bottom. And I don't know, the kill diameter is what fits into the slot. So at a [00:23:00] further distance it moves it down. I. I have no desire. I'm, I feel seems too cluttered. S Sniper uses a cross hair.

I'm a, I'm gonna use something similar as, as far as a single point of aim, but I could see, I see oh, who was it? I think it was Antler Up. Did a podcast with a, I think his name's JT Vernon or it starts with a v I might be mis, but the dude is shooting in old Hoy fingers. And. And he's ah, I couldn't get fully compound, but this is letting me go rogue and I like to hunt from the ground and it lets me be a little free.

And that boy, that guy also takes his son out and they got like a mini three D range out back. They're always shooting, but it was something that I saw and I was like, oh yeah, that was the old school more, I don't know, raw, real outdoorsman style. Yeah, a lot of people shot fingers.

Oh, you brought this up and I did a YouTube video on it. You talked about this generation of potential hunters, especially the guys just now coming through in their maybe early twenties, the over analytical approach. Yeah. And I mentioned the guy getting back more to the roots of [00:24:00] the outdoors and getting out there, and that, that is something I think is potentially happening right now is these guys are over analytical or maybe.

Hell, maybe they run 37 cams, 20 cell cams. Like you really turned them loose on a new piece. Are they really close to being an Indian or an outdoorsman able to really hunt down stuff? I think we might be losing that a little bit. Yeah. We've just, people have just, I guess evolves so much with the technology and everything that there's no, the learning curve is tremendously shorter, smaller.

And if you can, systematically go about and be successful that way, quicker. Obviously people are gonna do that. How you gonna tell people to not like, use like the technology that's at their whim? It's I can be more successful using this and everybody's doing it, yeah. Especially right off the start, because we're probably the last generation who grew up without like cell phones and, it didn't have the g p s stuff and whatnot, we were just going rogue using. Big ass forest maps and shit, hoping we were on public, yeah. Trying to be the [00:25:00] best we can and and just, you used to have to drive and get maps and then pay or mail stuff in. Yeah, exactly. And then you're, when you're out there walking, you, I don't know you're 1617 reading a map like. I think I'm right here. Yeah. You might be a whole ridge away dude.

I remember me and Zoe back in the day we were on this forest road and I'm like, I think we're on this curve of this road that should be public. There were a bunch of plastic signs. I don't wonder if back in the day the locals couldn't do you a little easier. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. You could put up a no trespassing sign in the middle of a blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. State, national, whatever, and then, yeah. And deter people pretty quick. Yeah. And how could you argue? It's if I'm out there hunting and there's no, is there a post-it sign? Yeah. I'm not going past it. Even though if the, if I'm confident that the map says that's public, I'm like it must not be back in the day.

You, I remember just as OnX was coming to phones, you were really debating about buying a G P S. 'cause they, because if you remember the G p s had. The there was a chip you put in them for the, I think it might've been OnX [00:26:00] or it might've been, I don't remember. Before they went to the phone app.

There was a chip Yeah. That you could put into like the GPSs, like the Garmin Etre is and stuff. That was basically do what on X does now. You can mark pins, you can mark wave points. You had the private public lines on 'em. It had, all that stuff was on like a little chip that you had to buy for a handheld G p s.

Yeah. And then OnX came out on the phone app a couple years later. Yeah. So I can remember Cabela's, when they opened at the Columbus location, they had a full like nicer, clear box display of those, yeah, those G P s units. And looking back, Dave, what would that have been? 2014, 15 ish? Probably. Yeah, when Cabellas went in the before OnX was on the phone, looking back if we'd have graduated college, let's call it 2011, 12 bought a G P S, we might have been ahead of the game for offshore for a few years.

Yeah. Yeah. Probably like a significant [00:27:00] advantage. I remember scouting and stuff too, and we scouted all the time because we just had time on our hands and and just, yeah, you couldn't like mark anything. You'd be like, oh yeah, I went into this one area. It was really nice.

Don't even know where I was at. How do I get back there? I don't know. I think it was up over this ridge. And then you go down, you'd have to have nicknames for all these spots just so you keep track of 'em. I'd put orange ribbon, like in opposite directions of what I needed to do.

So I'd tie it to the tree on the right of an old horse road and I'd go left and then you walk in the woods left, let's call it a couple hundred yards and there'd be attack and on, on the left side of a tree. And I'd go yeah, we did some tacks back in the day. I never did the ribbons, but I did do some tacks back in the day.

And but that's also the thing 'cause Yeah. And I only had a few spots back in the day. I had four. Yeah. And only the serious people were the only people walking in the dark. Yeah. Be or walking outta dark because you had to be confident in where you were going. So that was before you had OnX where you can just stare at your phone as you're walking in the woods.

Before you had, people didn't go in, in the dark. [00:28:00] They waited till gray lights, so they, 'cause they didn't know where they were going. So I did a lot of morning hunts back then. 'cause our thought was if you get lost in the dark, just hang out until the sun comes up and then figure out where the truck is or where the roads are.

Yeah. Because if you got lost in the night, you're screwed. There was many evening hunts that I probably pulled out early. Yeah. Because I was like, because I scouted my way in type thing. I was always a rogue, publicly and hunter. I never like, like I was like, yeah, I'm with Gunness area and check things out.

And I would just hunt that whole day, just scouting around. Yeah. But during season, I'd have like my, 40 pound climber on my back and just go on rogue. I had a lot of spots that where you're close to roads, close to trails. 'cause like you said, I could get to the trail and I could walk in the dark without a map, yeah. Yeah. And then just yeah. Trail and then one distinctive ridge or something. Yeah. And then, yeah. And then we, like I said, and we had nicknames for spots. And then, yeah, occasionally you would try to take like a shortcut and and then you'd get lost. I, we get lost all the time, dude. I got I remember it was like November 4th.[00:29:00]

I'm in college hunting after work and c closing time. 15 minutes. Here comes a buck and dump, bumping some doughs. Yeah. And they work right in front of me and I was like, dude, I'm gonna hunt this piece of private for the next two days. I had no, I, dude, I passed 110, 115 inch buck, and I should have roasted him.

He walked, he read the script right down the military. Crest could've killed him. And anyways, I got so fired up. I got lost and I knew to get to this creek, and then I had to bebop through the creek. And dude I did a loop like three times and then I could see just a rogue light on the back of a house.

And I was like, fuck it. I'm going to the house. Yeah. So I go to ring this doorbell and I take my climber off and bow. I put it in the driveway. I ring the door. I just stepped like 20 feet back because I just, I didn't wanna scare nobody. Yeah. And I was just like, Hey, I got turned around. I need to get to X, Y, and Z.

And they gave me directions. I remember I called Brooke. I'm like, I'm gonna be there super late 'cause I gotta walk two miles on a paved road instead of I don't know, a couple hundred yards through the woods. Yeah. [00:30:00] And this was where? This was on the, oh, I can't tell you where via the podcast, but I'll tell you off air.

That's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, I've been lo, there was one time years ago in gun season, back when I was a kid. I was probably like 16 or I was like 16, and I got lost, and it was dark, and I ended up just finding like a oops. Before we get on there and do these big gun drives with family and stuff, back when we were younger and yeah, and I got lost and it got dark and I ended up just finding like a trail that led to a road and then I knew where I was at and then I was just walking this road pitch black dark.

I roll into camp at nine, 10 o'clock. Just and I just walked this road back and Yeah. It was, yeah, it was, didn't you and Andy use gunshots to find each other at one point? Yeah. Because you got so turned around and lost. Yeah. And that wasn't even, and that was like a pretty like averages, like not a not a isolated day, desolate place.

No, not at all. It was during the day. Was during the day. Wasn't even, yeah. It wasn't even dark and you couldn't [00:31:00] find each other. And so you called him. Yeah. Was 'cause what happened was Andy shot a dough. And when he shot it, there was like 10 more deer with it that were like a little bit behind it.

That this is a gun season that, that we didn't see at the time. We were just rogue checking some stuff out and then, and here there's dope right there, we snuck up a little bit and boom, Andy shot it, it went down. As soon as he shot it, maybe 10 deer behind it took off running.

And I'm like shit, I'm going to go. So I was like, you got that dough? I'm gonna go try to chase down these deer. And try to flank 'em and go around 'em and stuff. So I go chasing after these deer. I think I bumped them like one more time and then I kept flanking 'em and stuff and I, there was a time or two that I almost got on 'em.

I know when people think you bump like deer don't run that far. When you think about it, when you bump 'em mean they're gonna go a few hundred yards. You guys Okie-doke. That buck this year where you bumped him clearly. Oh yeah. And then turned around and got him. Yep. Yeah.

They don't go too far. And so I was basically trying to Tracy's deer down. I'm like, I got a gun on my hands. I can get in, [00:32:00] I can get in range. And then, yeah, and then I got lost because I was just too focused on where they went and stuff. I had, wasn't paying attention to my bearings eee at all.

Yeah. And and I just was, yeah. No phone, no nothing. I had a phone, I had a cell phone. Yeah. It was old. Probably no Kia. Yeah. It was like a flip phone, maybe Motorola back in the day I had a flip phone When when I went to college. Okay. Like my first year in college, I had a flip phone. I might have had a flip phone in college and then well, and then they went to the then they had the ones that had the little texting screen on them.

Or you could like I don't know. You could had the buttons, you could slide the little phone in half would slide up or something. Yep. What I had, but had a flip phone when I started college though. Okay. Where you used to have to do the, was it the T nine or something? T nine, yeah.

So you can go T nine or like the triple punch method, like if you wanna see, you had to hit it up. Up. Yeah. But yeah so yeah. So it was just like we were this whole started because nobody nowadays has to deal with any of that stuff. Yeah. It's just, you can if, say if I wanted to start deer hunting tomorrow, no idea [00:33:00] about how to deer hunt, I downloaded OnX now. I immediately got maps of every single public land around and I got mapped. It shows trail systems, it shows two tracks. It shows where the oaks are. It shows where old burns have been. It shows clear cuts. It shows everything. Ride the palm in my hands. Don't have to step in the woods.

I don't even have to go scouting. So I see that I got that on the maps. Then I can go listen to, 50 different podcasts. Yeah. I can learn, what to do, how to do it. I can go to YouTube, punch in like specific oh, I wanna learn about hunting. Northeast Montana White Tail. I only said that just outta the Midwest, but yeah, like I want hunt Mon Montana, white tails in the northeast and river bottom country.

Yep. Boom. Punch it in. Yeah, there's probably podcasts to talk specific specifically about that. Probably how to kill buck on the 10 acre cattle pasture you just got permission on. Yep. Boom. And then you can go to your your local shop. You can get set, they can set you up with a nice compound bow that you can and then you basically can.

Quite literally be shooting baseball sized groups at 20 yards within I think you could pick up [00:34:00] a bow, never picked one up your life, and shoot a baseball at 20 yards. In 10 shots. Yeah. If you've watched some videos, Nikki can, Nikki did. I got her a compound bow. I taught her how to shoot. She's shooting bullseye immediately.

Yeah. At 10 yards, 20 yards. Immediately, or you could just go the crossbow route. Now you got a 40 yard rifle y here you go. Yeah. Even more yeah, you have 60 yards, with the Raven shoots flat to 60. Yeah. Get you a crossbow. Then it's oh, so I can get, then now I can get these cameras that just send pictures to my phone.

Go throw a few of those out in the old cattle pasture. Now I know exactly what time deer are going into this, bait site, for instance. Hunt the camera with the most picks or close to it. N Never thought about deer hunting in my life. I could probably kill a deer. The first set of my career could very well happen.

It's, yeah, it's pretty. Especially, yeah. Yeah, man, it's, or you could go on to public and be pretty successful, without any woods knowledge, just by. The information that you can learn just through YouTube and podcasts. Yeah. The learning curve is for the guys that wanna do it.

Yeah. It's way better. [00:35:00] It's, yeah. It's, yeah. If you wanna start hunting now, you could go be successful pretty quickly. Where it took us, years and years of just tromping around the woods, not knowing what the hell we're doing. Getting in the woods, getting in the outdoors. Yeah. I listen to a, I found the Stick Boy podcast.

I've, people have seen me either watching their YouTube or Yeah. Quoting it, sharing it. I'm familiar with them. Yeah. Yeah. I recently found, but those guys are actually talking about I don't know, they got a series. It's all about woodsmanship or whatever, and you just listen to 'em talk and they're man of the mountain.

Nathan Killin's on there. What's the, Allen's the other guy and I and the host. But th they were talking about glass and red oaks this year. And it was it, the one, one guy found a buck. He was hunting. He realized glass in the summer. Yeah. Yeah, right now red Oaks, I thought they didn't, they don't like Red Oaks this time of year.

No. But where are they gonna be in October? Oh. Kind of thing. White Oaks. Yeah. Yeah. I noticed I was walking a sidewalk the other day and this batch of reds was, had dropped 'cause we had a rainstorm and I said, I know if I was a deer hunter, I'd be here maybe the second half of October.

Yeah. But I don't know. He was talking about chasing a buck [00:36:00] and he noticed one buck in particular, like to Rub the downhill side of trees for whatever reason. It was just a tendency and he thought that meant that buck was maybe coming up in elevation 'cause why would he take the extra steps to get to the other side of the tree to rub?

And it was just some next level true men of the mountain type talk. When did they think they make the most rubs in the mornings or evenings? I don't know. But it was just like a, he felt like the direction, the rubs around the downhill side of the tree. And based on, I think some other factors of the woods or maybe where he thought that deer was betting, feeding, he felt that deer was coming through that specific hillside in an uphill travel pattern.

And it was just it. It was like, oh man, like this guy's fucking dialed. Yeah. I wonder what, I don't I guess I've never heard anybody and I don't really have any thoughts on it. Do you think they make the more, most of their rubs, especially when they make like a rub line, right? Obviously, they're in the rut and stuff, and so that pre rud phase, if there's a, a hot dough or something going on, or they're just trying to be territorial, they'll just fucking rub where they're standing at.

'cause they want to just [00:37:00] make a mark and try to show off, blah, blah. But if, if he got some distinct rub lines at times. I wonder if that's like more like when they're going back to their bed or when they're leaving their bed. I don't know, because that could try to, that could help you out a little bit.

How many bucks have you ever seen make a rub? I've never seen some make 'em. I've seen him make just like rogue rubs. Yeah. But never because you'll see distinct lines, it's okay, it's a buck's, clearly traveling this, and he's made multiple rubs on this line.

Yeah. But I've seen him just make rogue rubs probably, I don't know. Probably a handful of times. Yeah. Small bucks. Yeah, I had a small buck this year making rubs opening day of gun season. Yeah, they're always, it was rogue oh he came in and bed it down. Yeah. That just I don't know what some of 'em, young bucks, I don't know if they just think it's the thing to do and they just start rubbing around, I don't know. I remember I blew it on a hunt late October, cold front, and I had a buck and a dough. The dough blew at me. Here came a buck to check her out. I get up in my tree stand lowkey. I should have stayed on the ground. I remember you telling me [00:38:00] like, dude, like I think you were in the action. You probably just should have sat tight.

Yeah. And I totally agree. Now looking back and I remember I got up in the tree that night and here comes a bug and he's just raking a tree. And no rhyme or reason. Yeah I I don't know. I feel like I've observed a handful of bucks making rubs and never can fully. You know why, yeah.

What's, it's clearly some kind of marking thing and they sent 'em, they put scent on 'em and stuff too. 'cause they got, they have glands right there. But yeah, I don't know if there's like a, if there's rubs, big rubs in an area, clearly there's a big bucket in an area. The one you killed a few years back, the wide buck.

You set up there because you saw a cluster of rubs, right? Dude? Yeah. I passed four rubs and 50 yards or something, and then I get to an area and it's just a bunch of small trees. But there was four within a five yard thing and I said I need to be able to shoot this. Yeah. I, no big rubs, just some average and, but a lot.

And I was like this looks good. Yeah. And I would think too, so that's so if you see five, six rubs good size rubs. Yeah. Or even if [00:39:00] you see if five, six big rubs. You gotta think that the big buck is living there pretty regularly because Do you think they're making like multiple rubs?

Like you think like just one evening some big buck gets up and decides I'm just gonna go rub fucking 10 trees tonight. Just riding a, or it's probably more like one a night maybe. One every little while. Yeah. So it's probably so if you see a bunch of rubs and they're probably. In there.

They've been there or they're in there a lot. Yeah. Day after day. 'cause I doubt they're just going out and making every damn rub in one evening. Yeah. If you see a multiple, you're like he's here a lot. Yeah. Now the time of, I, I would've guess most rubs probably made tonight. So the timing of when those rubs are made, might you have to factor into that.

I think I think Infa has that common story where there was some big buck that was local people knew about him. You've heard the story probably, and he says, he said he walked past four other hunters Yeah. To go back into this area. I think it was a rum legend, buck. Yeah.

Because they were all hunting on [00:40:00] the rubs. On the big rubs and stuff and all the big sign. But he knew that buck was not doing that stuff till night. And he was further back in there a little bit. And he just went, common sense just. If everybody's hunting up close, just go a little bit further back.

Sure. But so that's basically what he did. And he ended up shooting him, but, so yeah. Most, I don't take a t i, I like the sea rubs and stuff, but I too, I don't live and die on them though. Yeah. Scrapes I will live and die on a little bit more than rubs like I would, I take a lot more stock in this good scrape than I do a good rub, size wise.

At least there's a big buck in the area. I think I'm notorious for maybe always setting a stand where I can either see a rub or yeah. I can't say I like, yeah. If I walk into the woods and I've got a ambushed location in mind, if I don't, I feel like nine outta 10 times I'm setting up with an eyesight of a rub.

I I think that's just my natural. Maybe I need to shake that thought. Maybe the buck. The buck I shot a few years ago. I was walking in and I plan on hunting this one area, and I get to this area [00:41:00] and I, I had just picked out on a map, right? It was a rogue spot. I get there in the dark and I'm looking around, don't see any sign, really at all.

And I'm just like, okay. So I literally started to unpack, I think I have one stick on the tree and I was like, guys keep looking around a little bit, just with my headlight, and I'm like, I just don't see, I don't see, I haven't seen any rubs. I don't see any scrapes. I'm like, this is an area that like, I feel like it's, if it should have the, some areas should have bug on.

Yeah. And I'm just like, there's nothing, and that's dark granted, so I'm like sitting there. Then you know, this is morning hunt and I'm just sitting there in a dark fuck, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? Just contemplating every decision, and I'm like, screw it. I pack up and I'm like, I'm just gonna go further.

And I'm just gonna go to a C sign. Even in the dark, I literally didn't even, I went maybe 200 more yards and I saw like a rub and I was like, good enough. It's gonna get daylight here soon. I'm like, call it a day. I've seen zero. I got one. Yeah. So I hung a tree and then after I did hang out, I did see a few more, once [00:42:00] daylight hit.

But yeah, then that buck came down. Now he was with the dough and stuff, and it was like November 2nd or third. So I don't know if. I don't know if that rub had any significance at all, but for some reason I was just like, I was like calling this good. Yeah. Dave, it's approaching nine o'clock. I know we got some shit to do today.

I gotta finish A D I Y project. Yeah, we got a birthday party we got, but we have a, we gotta go shopping for gifts for that. The kids are the worst, aren't they? Yeah. Your free time is not, your time is not your end anymore. That is for sure. Yeah. And then they have birthday parties too.

It's like constant birthday parties, it's, we got family, friends, and all our friends all have kids, and so then all they, it's just constant birthday parties now. Some of them we don't, we just don't buy guess for. Yeah. It's just sorry I'll stop by because you invited us.

Thanks for the invite, but. I didn't get to the store. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And then you gotta go buy a gift. And then how much do you spend on a gift, oh, geez. Depends on it depends on how well you like the kid or no kid. Yeah. [00:43:00] I hear you there. Yeah. Yeah. So we gotta run the store buy a gift, then you gotta buy a bag and you got, it's just whole nine yards, dude.

You got my some tissue paper. It's all, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. Oh. All right. I think I'm gonna shoot today and I got this paver stone project that I now gotta pay Dave Consulting fee on. 'cause he came over and gave it a good once over. I gotta finish plumbing in that that sink util got lop sink.

Yeah, I got it all. I got the water, rain and everything. So that's the big part where I gotta turn the water off and then put in the. Tie into the water lines and everything and then put in, so I got it all, ran to the valve. I just gotta plum in the sink to the drain now, which I got all this stuff.

It's not that big a deal. I just gotta do it. Yeah. But yeah, I wouldn't mind shooting a few arrows while I'm here and then do it. I'm already one for 1 38 yards, quarter way ice cold. Dave puts his head in the heart on my dove. Oh, because you were in there dicking around, grabbing a jacket or something and I was like I'm shooting narrow real quick and just shot one.

Nailed it. And was like, good enough for me. Yeah. All right guys. Appreciate you listening. Team. Hard earned bucks. We are out.[00:44:00]