Talking Turkeys & Whitetail w/ Andrew Mills

Show Notes

Hey everyone, welcome to episode 165 of the Antler Up Podcast!

On this week's episode Dimitri and I were joined by Clearfield county native Andrew Mills.  Andrew is a state trooper and a freaking turkey fanatic!  Andrew is the co-owner of Honey Hole Game Calls! Doing episodes in person is always a great time and this was no exception!   We cover a good bit in this episode from whitetail, upcoming out of state turkey hunts, to covering the basics for what you should be doing now to prepare for turkey season!

Andrew is an extremely accomplished turkey hunter, from completing the grand slam to trying to complete the US Slam!  To begin this episode we dive into quickly who Andrew is and what got him really into hunting for turkey!  He also has three daughters from ages 7-10 that are already very accomplished hunters from whitetails, trapping to turkeys.  We asked him about getting his girls involved in hunting and transition to his planning process for spring gobbler.  From e-scouting, boots on the ground, sign, calling, where he finds success, and then to his thoughts on the PA season timing! 

We get into other hunting strategies, and stories throughout the podcast!  I am really looking forward to Andrew finding more success this upcoming spring.  I really encourage you to check out Honey Hole Game Calls when you are looking to add your next mouth call to your turkey vest! Enjoy this fun episode!  

Thanks again for all the support and best of luck out there and Antler Up!

Show Transcript

[00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome to the Aunt Laura Podcast, brought to you by tethered the world's best saddle hunting equipment. Check it out and we have a great one for you all. This week, Dimitri and I stopped over to the Honey Hole Game Calls headquarters and sat down with co-owner Andrew Mills.

Andrew is a state trooper and a freaking Turkey fanatic. Andrew is the co-owner, like I said, to Honey Hole game calls. We had 'em on the podcast like two, three years ago. Doing episodes in person is always a great time, and this one was no exception. We cover a good bit in this episode from Whitetail.

Upcoming out-of-state Turkey hunts to covering the basics for what you should be doing [00:01:00] now to prepare for Turkey season last minute. Those of you that don't go out of state like myself here, I just stay here for Turkey hunts mainly. But Andrew is an extremely accomplished Turkey hunter from completing the Grand Slam to trying to complete the US Slam.

Think he says in the podcast, he's up to 14 or 15 states where he's already killed a bird. So to begin this episode though, we dive into quickly who Andrew is and what got him really into hunting for Turkey. He also has three daughters from the ages seven through 10 that are al already very accomplished hunters from whitetails trapping to turkeys, and we asked him about getting his girls involved in the hunting and then we transitioned to his planning process for spring gobler from e scouting boots on the ground sign calling where he finds success a lot of the times.

And then to his thoughts on the PA season timeframe. And we get into. Other hunting strategies, stories throughout the podcast and I'm really looking forward to Andrew finding more success this upcoming spring. And I really encourage you to check out Honey Hole [00:02:00] game calls when you are looking to add your next mouth call to your Turkey vest.

Great guys that are involved with this company and Andrew is a good one man, so it's always great to support good people local, so check them out also. Thanks again for all the support. Best of luck to you out there. Get it, make sure you're getting everything dialed up for spring for Turkey, whether you're doing that or getting ready to shoot 3d, all that jazz.

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That's all I got everybody for you this week. Thanks again so much for all the support. Have a great one, antler. All right hey, we're live, we're down in the honey hole game called headquarters here. I like it. Yeah. here in central Pennsylvania, not too far from down the road from Dmitri and I, and we have Andrew Mills, Andrew I the horrible job of checking to see when the last time we had you on, but I think you were, man, you had to be in there like episode 30 saying we're on.

It's been a few years. This this'll be in like the one 60 s, so Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. So this is, it's been a while. It's been a while. Yeah. Been too long. I, every time we would run into each other or something, we'd say, we gotta record. We gotta record, and, life and your work's not, the easiest.

And that's why last week when I message you and you go. I'm pretty wide open. I was like, Hey, great . Let's get it done. Dimitri has something [00:06:00] tomorrow night and I was hoping when you said you're still free. I was like, oh, that's all right. Cuz he told me he was, you were still free, so I appreciate it, man.

Yeah. Thanks for having me on Pennsylvania. Hunters doing all types of stuff, chasing birds, chasing whitetail. We're just in awe checking out all the mounts that you have down here. Just some awesome whitetail, awesome Turkey. 2023 Spring is here. It's here. It's about to be here. It's probably been here in your mind for the last couple weeks already.

Months. Yeah. Yeah. You ready? Yeah. I'm gonna be hunting here in 12 days. Okay. What is that First time I'm go Mississippi. Okay. Heading in Mississippi. Yeah. So we'll see what happens. Last time I was there, it wasn't, I didn't have much luck. . Yeah. So what, what has been the. Toughest state to hunt Mississippi.

Okay. So far that I've been to. Yeah. Did you end up going to Delaware? Yeah, that I came close. Did you? About as close as you can come without squeezing the trigger. Yeah. And I was only able to hunt for two or three days, okay. I didn't [00:07:00] get to Yeah. Hunt it for a very long time, but it was it was a tough, it was a tough state as well.

Yeah. But I at least got to work at Gobbler there and came very close. Nice. Before we dive into the whole Turkey and whitetail and just other fun shenanigans, introduce yourself again, I guess since it's been so long to some new listeners and everything like that, if they haven't gone back and listened to us ramble on early on tell us who you are, Andrew, where you're coming from, and why.

You're passionate, so passionate about turkeys, all right. Yeah. I'm Andrew Mills. I grew up Clearfield County and still reside here and state trooper and state police here in Pennsylvania and married with three daughters. Their ages 10, eight and seven. And I'm just a passionate Turkey hunter.

It comes down to, I just like to hunt Turkey and I wish I could do it year round, but yeah. So I try to maximize my time whenever it comes to spring[00:08:00] yeah. Yeah, that's and I got into just at a young age that's, and. Soon as I started traveling, I started getting the fever pretty hard.

Yeah. Now talk about, getting your daughters involved. Cuz I love seeing it just because you, most of your posts are, usually of your kids of killing whitetails or are turkeys and, and having three daughters. You thought, maybe thought they wouldn't even be interested in it.

So talk a little bit about your experience of trying to get them involved and, you do a great job of what I can see as fr getting them involved and enjoying it and what that process has been like for you. Thanks. I enjoy it. I actually, that's the, some of the funnest hunts I've ever been on is taking them.

I don't push it. I didn't, I never pushed it on any of 'em, but they, they would always be interested. Anytime I'd be out hunting, they would ask to tag along and I any opportunity I had, I would take 'em and , eventually they wanted to start hunting and they were old enough with this new youth se mentored season that excellent.

Cuz we didn't have that option when [00:09:00] we were younger. We had to wait until we were, what, 12 years old? And . They've all killed Gobbler's. I think seven. All of 'em had got one at age seven. So it's been amazing and I think the success has helped 'em continue. Yeah, keep, want to keep going.

So lucky. Luckily enough, I try to I try to gauge what day the weather looks best and maximize that opportunity on those days. Or when I, earlier in the seasons for Turkey season anyway when I think. Turkeys are gonna be most responsive to maybe Colin and Cause I think too, like in the deer woods, unless it's the prime rut, we're not hearing anything from deer other than their footsteps rusting their, the leaves.

So as a young kid, like you said, seven, eight or nine, man, probably hearing a gobble is obviously he's shooting a turkey's a lot more fun. But hearing that is, is also pretty awesome. Yeah. And it, there's that interaction part with Turkey that makes it a little bit more I don't know. [00:10:00] It makes it easier, I think, to keep their attention span Yeah.

The engagement for them. Yeah. It, and they all have deer hunted with me. It. , I know when it comes to deer hunting, if we're not seeing anything within the first hour or so, their attention spans starting now with iPads and everything. Yeah. I mean it, I hand 'em an iPad or my phone and try to keep 'em there as long as I can because you have to, I you're not gonna, I always say you're not gonna get one if you go home.

I don't push it on 'em if they want to, if I don't want to ruin it. That's what I think it's a, the hard part about. Getting the youth involved. I think about watching the couple videos that the Hunting public have just put out, and I think they're in Mississippi too, I think right now.

But they're hunting with a couple guys that were taking their sons out and I think, and daughters and, the one guy said, sometimes I come out with my kids and, do setups that I know that we're probably not gonna be successful because I wanna show 'em that you can't be successful every time.

And I think that's a kind of the [00:11:00] hard, metric to balance, right? Yeah. You, you don't want to just take 'em out there and say we're gonna get something or see something every time, but you don't wanna not be successful and then they lose interest. Yeah. That was a good point where, you know they had a.

Piece of public or a private land where they can, see 'em and they have better success odds. So that's probably why he is trying to lean them towards the, it's not gonna be perfect every time. So I feel like even for us, hunting public ground or in Pennsylvania where maybe be a little bit more difficult, you gotta find that kind of balance where you're teaching them how it really is and, but you want to keep their interest.

I agree. Yeah. You have to keep 'em like you said, interested in it. And if you don't, they're not gonna want to go , but at the same time they have to under have an understanding that it's not gonna happen every time you go out. Yeah. I my oldest, she's been getting into archery as well, and.

We've had some good hunts, but once the weather starts getting colder, she's, she doesn't want, she's I'm out . Yeah. Which is okay by me because that's usually when the it's the prime time. Yeah. But I'd love for her to go. [00:12:00] But that's awesome though. Like Dimitri said, you do, just from the post and the fact that they want to go year after year for, your oldest wants to continue that and your youngest wants to keep going.

It's just, that's a testament. Yeah. Good job, man. Thank you. Hopefully we will follow in that right footstep one day. I so it is a blast. Yeah. I like it. No, man. What about we plan, we obviously Dimitri and I, were die hard when it comes to whitetail and obviously you have honey hole game calls, you're making your own Turkey calls, which we'll talk a about that, what is.

Planning process. Like we scout, whe whether it's on our phones all the time, we're out going into the woods, we're talking on the podcast. So that's always on our brain. Like I'm as green gets when it comes to preparing for Turkey season. Other than that, making sure my, I have shotgun shells, I have my pattern's Good.

And I'm practicing my mouth calls. Yeah. So what is your preseason yearly routine? What does that look like? Do you even, I know for you, yes, your turkey's on your brain all the [00:13:00] time , but what does that look like for you even during that whitetail season? I'm usually making calls through the fall.

Still. . So I'm usually running calls and. . As far as the cell phone, it is e Scout and all the I'm always on my phone looking at different states and even around here, like different transition areas where there's field or woods and where there's on a top though, where there's high points looking where I could stand to listen and make possibly hear one in the distance and constantly.

I drive around looking for Turkey in fields and it's always on my mind. It, so I, that's where I start though, is calling scouting and looking on my phone mainly like I'm. turn the whitetail brain, my, my whitetail brain into like, how could it translate into the Turkey woods, right?

I remember when we went scouting a couple times before the first day and everything just to see if we could ruse some birds, [00:14:00] and you just said it, looking at the topo maps, right? , we look at, okay, where's that thermal hub? Where those points, where we think bucks could be betting.

What are those key things that you're maybe, like you said, keying in on that. Let's look here and get in there to scout for some turkeys, maybe find the different scat, find, making sure the tracks, stuff like that. Is there anything that, someone could key in on?

Basically, I like the transition areas, the transition between field and woods. I also look for ridges. Okay. I like to concentrate on high points where I can maybe walk a high point. I always like to be above the gobbler That's where I usually tend to focus on, for whatever reason I seem to go towards R Rivers a lot.

I have a lot of success in river bottoms or creek bottoms. And it, I usually try to stay to the high side of it. I find myself usually crossing the creek cuz it seems like they're always on the other side for whatever reason. . But yeah, like you said, I look for sign As far as scratching's huge.

If I see fresh scratching, I usually start taking my [00:15:00] time in an area start walking, paying attention to my surroundings, listening as I'm walking. Might do some contentment calls per and calls puring and a little bit of clucks and. And really honing in because not all the time are they gonna be responsive to your your yelping and your cutting.

Especially if there's some hens with 'em. They might, the hens might be pulling 'em the other way, but if you can start doing some just contentment calls and ease in to an area where, they have recently been, you're, there's a good chance that you're gonna bump into 'em. Yeah.

I know on the last podcast you were talking about preseason scouting and you like to go out and listen for the birds and see where they're at, how early in the season, are you doing that? Are you doing that now? Or, is there a certain timeframe and, when is too early or, obviously too close isn't too close, but, when are you starting to listen and when do you think, if you hear that bird he's gonna be in that area, come the season?

Is there a timeframe or something you're looking or starting that [00:16:00] process? So I just started last weekend going out and then, and in the past, I, this is late for me. Usually I'm, I've been out for a couple weeks already but last weekend was my first weekend. I did hear a gobbler. I was in a newer area that I had never hunted before.

I hunted general area, but not in that specific location. But usually I see middle to beginning of April, to middle of April is whenever I start seeing the flocks, starting to scatter as far as the birds are, the gobbler are being more territorial. It seems like certain locations.

I'll go like this time of the year and there'll be several gobbler and then. They start breaking off or their hens are getting in areas where they wanna start maybe, to start nesting or and doing their thing. But yeah, I scout the whole way up till it's time to start hunting.

Yeah. Yeah. I think you just have a, especially the closer you get to the season and I typically see that the [00:17:00] gobblers are gonna be in that general area unless something happens as far as predator or hunters or getting spooked a little bit, but maybe not same tree, but same general area.

That's a great question cuz that, that was like where my brain, I think wanted to go to is there a moment where, we, you know, we as deer hunters, I, I'm saying for Dimitri and I basically, and Deme, Dimitri loves killing out, killing turkeys and has done that plenty of times.

Where I'm thinking is, Like on our Sundays, we go out scouting even during the season to find that, where's that bucket? Dropping that sign? . Is there a time where you're like, I'm not pushing in there because I don't want to bump that gobbler. Does that ha happen more often than you think?

I'm sure it does. Yeah. And I'm, I've spooked plenty of gobblers over the years. The older I get, I think the little, the more patient I'm getting. And I usually ease into an area when I'm scouting, I really try not to bump anything. And usually if I think I'm getting close I bounce out and [00:18:00] go somewhere else just because it's not worth it to bump that gobbler.

I'm not saying it won't be there tomorrow or who knows, but. I wanna maximize your opportunities when you get to hunt. So Spartan Forge stands at the nexus of machine learning and whitetail deer hunting to deliver truly intuitive and sign space products that saves the hunter time spent scouting, planning and executing their hunts.

You have deer prediction, journaling, and the best maps on any hunting app platform there is. Use code antler up to save 20% off your Smart and Forge membership at Spartan Forge dot. And what do you think about the season timeframe for Pennsylvania , that, that comes up a lot.

, when we talk about Turkey hunting and, I feel I'm not a Turkey expert like you are, but, I feel like it's late and there's, when it gets into that warmer weather and I know we just had snow, I still have a couple inches of snow at my house and, yeah. So you never know what you're gonna get. I March your Snowbird killed, man. Yep. I still, that was actually in May. We got that snow a couple years. Couple years ago. [00:19:00] Yeah. That was like three or four years ago. Yeah. But talk about a little bit of that just because, obviously you hunt in other states and so your strategy's gonna change and we'll probably change a little bit from the early on seasons to the later or the end of Pennsylvania. Cuz Pennsylvania's probably one of the later states, probably for this area and how that. Changes your strategy and, game planning going into the season.

I I personally don't mind our season a whole lot now. I agree with you. I think it'd be a lot easier to kill Gobblers if they brought it in middle of April, but I agree with where the season's at, mainly because I think a lot of the hens are already have been bred and they're starting to nest, so at least we're not taking out gobbler, like they're having the opportunity to do their breeding.

And then, yeah I, that's where my mindset is and I could be completely wrong on that, but as far as later in the season, I tend to not call as much and they're more contentment calls. And earlier in the season I'm a little bit more [00:20:00] aggressive with my calling and I've been fairly successful with that being, being more aggressive at the beginning of the season.

But as that season goes on, it seems I guess the best way to describe it is a lull period where they, the gobbler might not be gobbling or being as active vocally. And so I tend to do my contentment, like I was saying get into an area and I'll sit a lot longer and be a lot more patient later as the season goes on.

Now, if I have one that's being very vocal and goblin a lot towards me, I'll step it up then and I try to fill out the gobler and see how their interaction is with me and I feed, and I call based off of that interaction. Yeah every instance is a little bit different, but yeah that's my approach.

I think. I think it's better to start out Being more contentment, then you can always pick it up. But I think if you start out being real aggressive [00:21:00] in your calling, it could cause a gobbler to be a little call shy. Yeah. What about since you take your daughters out that week prior to our opening day, do you notice anything like in that first week that anything changes amongst the birds?

Does that, does the quote unquote pressure by people going out, like between scouting, looking for that bird for the next week, plus youth hunters going out there, does that, do you think, do anything, have you ever noticed anything like that the last couple years? I have actually. Youth Day has been treated us great.

, a lot of, I'm not saying we're killing any, but we're coming close or we're getting action. . But I will say especially the last two years hunted Youth Day with my daughters went back to that same area first day. and there was a total difference. I didn't hear as many gobbler.

Now whether that's because we were in there and working 'em that week prior, I don't know. Yeah. Or I'm not sure. Cuz I know they're there. Yeah. I see them throughout the season yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I, that, that could be [00:22:00] because of the hunting pressure the week prior and people scouting and getting gearing up for this season.

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Now, what do you think about, what affects the response of gobblers? Obviously, we know pressure and predators is gonna throughout the season is gonna cause 'em to be a little bit shyer. That's the easy answer. But do you think we've heard temperature or barometric pressure, what do you think about some of those things that's gonna play into, the response or, hearing a gobbler respond to you or early in the morning?

I think that pressure has a lot to do with it. Okay. It seems to, what's the magic number above 30 or something like that? The, with the pressure, barometric pressure. Yeah. I typically see a lot more action and they're a lot more vocal on those days, but that's not every time. I don't, I wouldn't say that, but earlier in the season is whenever I'm hearing my most gobbling now, as of recent.

I had my days like last year, towards the end of the season, I was hearing still a fair amount of gobbler, and they were being, they were [00:23:00] gobbling like it was the beginning of the season. I don't know. I wish I did know because I was, those were the days I'd be really taken off work, but yeah, I don't know.

I know I always, the thing that gets me is you'll hear people about the rain. To not to go or to go and man, I don't know how many times I've driven home. when it's getting closer to season or during the season and it's pouring out. And I there, there's a whole flock of Turkey in that field.

Yeah. I always concentrate on the fields when it starts raining. Yeah. I, they tend to always want to go to the fields and I think that a lot of it's because they can't hear as well for mating purposes and cautious of predators. So they'll get in an open area where they can see Yeah. I mean their eyesight's amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. When's our Sunday hunting coming for Turkey? ? I don't think anytime soon. That's was one thing I wish they would do is Open Sundays for it, one of the Sundays for the regular season. But for youth, [00:24:00] I think that'd be awesome if they'd do a Saturday and Sunday. Just the whole weekend for the kids to should go out.

Yeah. I think that'd be a great opportunity for 'em. But I don't know if we'll ever see it, but we are seeing more Sundays, so maybe that will be something for the future. Yeah, I'd never, like we hear about deer and we got the bear right. But I've never really heard anybody be like, I want that for my Turkey season too

No, I just think it de depends on if they pass Sunday hunting, in general. Yeah. I think that's what it's gonna come to because you season's just that one Saturday. That doesn't carry into the week at all because I think a lot of states do the whole week. Yeah. Yeah I, when I'm home here in pa, I enjoy having the Sunday off cuz I'm usually running ragged.

It's a day for me to. catch up with a family rest and get things done around the house. However, I'll say with the amount of traveling I do whenever I go outta state and you can't hunt a state on a Sunday, that's miserable. , because you're out there, you're, and it's a day that's just wasted.

You go out and scout and [00:25:00] everything, but, so I usually try to get to a state where I know I can hunt on a Sunday whenever I'm traveling. That brings up a great point, like just Sunday hunting in general and that's, I was actually thinking about this today. , and that is because I agree with you there, there are times where those Sundays are my days, obviously with the family, right?

Like your recovery, you're maybe going out scouting. But those days that you could energize those batteries basically morning, midday, and then in that evening you could get out there and hunt. Like those are opportunities where, for guys like us that work during the week. Yeah. Man, that the, I don't know.

They could, it could potentially save us so many days, quote unquote sick days or vacation days that, we don't use when that weather is quote unquote the prime time. Yeah. To get out there. I told Molly, I said, this year you probably won't see me cuz I'm gonna travel to a state where I can go hunt on a Sunday.

Yeah. . So she's of course thrilled about that. Yeah. But yeah. . I like it, but I also don't like it at the same [00:26:00] time. It's this time of the year I just catch the fever so bad that I wanna be hunting every opportunity that I'm off. I just think if they legalize it, you're gonna play it out how you wanna play it out.

Yeah. If you feel like you're able to go hunting, you're gonna go hunting. If you wanna go to church or you want to do family time, or you know you're gonna do family time, it's just whatever you feel is necessary or what's gonna benefit you. Why hold people back if they can make those decisions. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one thing I got. Not every single hunter is going to be out there. Every Sunday. Like you just said, Dimitri, there are going to be times, like you said I wish they would pass it because I, again, it would, I don't know how many times we've said it either on the podcast, not on the podcast.

How many times are we looking forward to that Saturday and then as Friday comes and the weather totally changes and Saturday is just miserable. And Sunday's my gosh, you can beautiful. See your breath. You know what I mean? Yeah. It is just the perfect day. To be in the woods and you're driving around.

Deer everywhere. Tur Turkey everywhere. . Yeah. It's just, I don't know. I'm [00:27:00] fingers crossed for one day that we could get , I think it's coming. Yeah, I do too. It's just a matter of time. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. What do, I've heard more people talk about trying to remove like the Saturday opener.

I'm, that's a big thing right now, right? I've read a couple, I think that's one thing that's on the docket and I forget what the other what they want to do is seniors can have no antler restriction. It's another thing I think that I saw that they're voting on too. I think that's like the two big things.

But again, it almost the Sunday hunting's gonna of being pushed to the wayside. Yeah. As I, maybe someone knows more than me, that's the couple articles that I've seen. Yeah. Is the two big things that they're presenting. Cause I think they're voting pretty soon, right?

It's usually, I'm not sure. Cause the season. . You can buy a license in June. June, so it's gotta, it's gotta be within a month, man. I hope they keep the Saturday. You like it. I do. Just for the sole fact that where I work, they don't give off Monday anymore. Oh, that's true. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It's nice for these schools because they get Monday, Tuesday. Yeah. But where I work now, I'm hoping [00:28:00] the, their main reason was because it's now Saturday. So if it would switch, maybe, so if it goes back, it better go back. But my thought process is once it's changed once, once it's not gonna, it's not going back.

Yeah. See, I, not for hunting purposes, I like the old tradition of just going into camp and hanging out. Yeah. I feel rushed, but I could take it or leave it. It doesn't matter to me either. I guess I would, prefer it be on Monday, but I would just take vacation days for it. ? Yeah. Yeah. So that's not everybody has that option.

Yep. Yeah. And if they would do that, if they would bring it back in Monday, I would. I hope that they will. do maybe Saturday, Sunday of the first week and Saturday, Sunday of the second week. Give everybody weekends. , I don't know. That, and then, and being rifle in Pennsylvania is such a hard argument too, because like we know how that first day, even like the first hour, two hours, how crucial that is for everybody, right? Because you could. If you wanna go to [00:29:00] camp and hang out, why don't you just go to camp and then when do you wanna hunt and hunt? But that's totally different when it comes to rifle.

Yeah. Because that you can steer moving everywhere. Yeah. So if you miss that first hour or two, that's pretty crucial. In, in most places. I've never had the camp atmosphere where we hang out and do all this, like shooting guns and at, so I can't speak upon that, but I get it.

And I understand people have traditions and PAs built on traditions, but, so it's hard to make that argument. You either gotta, do it on Saturday or Monday and, change your plans according, accordingly to whatever the date is. Yeah. And they talk about the, it's the businesses and they bring up like that aspect of things.

And I get that like I do restaurants, but really, Oh, every tradition that I ever hear is more so these guys going to a camp. Not, Hey, we're gonna go down and eat at the whatever restaurant down the road. You know what I mean? I'm sure restaurants do make money and somebody's probably, that listen to this is we go there every year.

And that's great. But most people that I hear when they talk about traditions is a [00:30:00] hunting camp. I'm with, I'm in the same boat as Dimitri. If I were growing up, I just went to my dad's. Okay. Yeah. It was, I'd go to my dad's, we'd pack our sandwiches, we'd get up and we would go, and afterwards we'd go to the hut at the club, basically.

But it wasn't a place where people camped at , do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, so so again, because I'm, I was never, I wasn't brought up in that staying over camp feel. So that's why I'm all about keep it Saturday at least. Because if you remove that, like Dimitri said, I don't see.

yeah. Me getting that day back. Back, yeah. Yeah. That's understandable. Yeah. You're going out of state here soon. , what trips do you got lined up this year? You got Mississippi? Yeah, I'm gonna do a you're going out west still Pacific? Yeah, I'm gonna go Pacific west, depending on snow at this point, because they've been getting pounded out there.

Yeah, but flight's already booked, so I'm going, I just don't know exactly where originally it's Washington and Idaho. Okay. We'll see they, there's quite a bit of snow. So Mississippi's in two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then what are those, they just opened up today, for [00:31:00] the their adult season.

Adult season now for they're regular season, I guess you could say, but they're, their season's kind of it's a draw now for the first two weeks for non-residents. And I, you, I didn't find out till a couple weeks ago. I did end up drawing, but I had to put in vacation time prior to that.

So yeah, I'm locked in now for. the 28th is whenever you can everybody can start hunting. Okay. What's your game plan? Game plan is to find a Turkey in that steak . Cause last time I didn't I don't know. I have a game plan. I've been to ees scouting like we talked about earlier on my cell phone, laying in bed at night, just looking at maps, trying to figure out where I can find a Turkey that no one else is gonna be at.

Yeah, because that's what I was running into last time a lot too, was I did find some Turkey. They were actually on private but workable from the public. And there was about. A handful of other guys trying to do the same thing that I was doing. So and I think the out-of-state game playing, obviously [00:32:00] thinking whitetail, right?

The term is scout more, hunt less when you're outta state, you're trying to find that sign. But with turkeys, you can hear them from, of the distance, right? Yeah. A lot of times. And so you're, you're basically hunting and scouting at the same time where you're trying to cover ground and find that bird right.

Yeah. I lose a lot of weight in the spring. , between, not eating is like I should and is the, a lot of miles I put on, and depending on a train, it can be pretty rough. I'd say I'd put on about eight to 10 miles a day when I'm hunting Turkey. On average. Boy, I watched that one episode with Ted and Aaron from Ted shot that bird.

Colorado last year. Like they just aired it, man. They were back like, I don't know how many miles, couple miles, but it was just like, like you just said, it's just so cool to see in a different state like Colorado to go up somewhere and kill a bird. That's half of it for me is just the scenery, the adventure being out there, seeing different things, and it's just a different from atmosphere from what we see [00:33:00] around here.

. . . That all plays into it. Yeah. And a lot of times, yeah, I like fly into different states because you're there. You take, you maximize your time as to hunting, but it's nice to drive and just get the full experience. Yeah. . That's a unique topic about going out, flying totally out west.

Yeah. What it. , like how do you game plan for that? Because renting a vehicle , you have to obviously check your luggage with your shotgun, I'm assuming Yeah. And all that stuff. So like how, what's your, are you going with somebody? Yeah there's two of us going, okay, two other guys going out west and we're flying.

I've found that Southwest is the best airlines for flying with your luggage because you get two free check bags. One's gonna be the rifle case or the shotgun case, and then I try to jam pack the other one with as much hunting stuff as I can. And then you get a free carry on. , I've [00:34:00] been recently been trying to take a camera with me, so I shove that into A pouch or a satchel , if you will.

But just carry it like, almost like a purse on the plane. And just to try to I have a vest that I absolutely love, but I probably won't be able to fit it in my, my bag just because of the room. , and now I'm thinking with all the snow they have out there, probably two pairs of boots one.

One to let dry and the other ones to be wearing the next time. Yeah. This is all, it all plays into it. So I don't have to get a third bag and pay extra money. It's already expensive as it is anymore, so there's a lot of planning involved with it. Trying to I, I cut down on the casual clothes and I, it's all camo.

Like I might be wearing camo to the restaurants or wherever we eat the store.

tethered is a team of saddle hunting fanatics with a passionate addiction to whitetail hunting, [00:35:00] designing and engineering products. To be a more efficient and confident hunter tethered produces the most mobile, stealthy and safest elevated hunting gear on the planet. Built by saddle hunters, Ford the saddle.

Head over to tether to see for yourself what exactly I'm talking about. What about like decoys? Are you taking decoys? Are you, when you're running gunning and you don't worry about it, you don't think it's necessary? I don't, I don't typically use any I use 'em with my daughters because I try to get the focal off us.

If I can get that detention on, they can move a little bit. , and, but we have not used them before, only because a quick setup situation or something like that. But when I'm traveling, even whenever I'm driving, I I went to Delaware. I didn't use any, it's just, I enjoy, I want to, this is what I love doing is calling and making calls and that's how I want to, that's how I want to do it.

Everybody's different. To me I, that's the way I want to do it. Speaking of a running gun setup, [00:36:00] that's what I would say most. Listeners have been gravitating too, right? , it was doing that whole running gun, mobile Turkey hunting, and, what is your setup like You said you have a favorite vest and everything like that?

Yeah. What are you running? I have a, it's an older vest, a Cabela's made, it has a aluminum frame in it, and it has like a kickstand where I love it because I don't have to sit against a tree in a lot of situations. Like there might be a hemlock tree with, if you're sitting against a hem.

Some tree is moving even though you're not, or a limbs moving even though you're not moving. Also if there's a bush, I can sit slightly just in front of that bush where there's enough to break my silhouette, but I can be leaning against and sitting into my vest and I re, I rely on that thing a lot, but I don't know if I'll be able to take it.

Boots set up. I've been wearing those. What, how do you pronounce Hwas? . I've been wearing them and I like them. Them and Crispies I think are comparable. Very and I've been using mossy Oak, what's the bottom land? Yep. Camo. Mainly. Now I'm a little concerned.

I've [00:37:00] actually been looking out West, it seems like a lot of the colors are a little bit lighter, so I've been looking at maybe trying to switch up my camo patterns for out there just to, that's also into my stuff that I thinking, we thought fusion, boom, we're out west.

We're, obviously Specter fits that mold as well, but when you look, or before Specter came out of First Life for that pure whitetail pattern, for them it was Fusion was Western and you, okay. And you had, decipher was more of that quote unquote, Eastern and Fusion worked really well here.

That's what you even ran, still run mostly too. But I'm still wearing camo. 12 years ago, like I come on Andrew time. I know, and I don't even know what camo patterns are out there anymore. If you, I have a storage closet right over there with all my hunting gear. And you would laugh if you saw half the stuff I wear, like

I'm talking like the is old camo pattern. It's brown, yellow, and like a even darker brown , like just spots everywhere. That's all right. And I [00:38:00] still wear it. Yeah. So I, it works and yeah, but I have been considering out west that it might be a little bit lighter and I might need to.

Invested. So I might need your guys' advice on what to buy. There you go. And I feel like those turkeys can pick you out. No matter what you wearing, some of those birds are so stingy. Yeah. You're not even moving or you don't even blink and you're like, I don't even know how that thing saw me.

Wasn't that one, was it two years ago when me, you and your dad were all in that wine and that one got under a tree and you were Yeah, I was under a blow down and everything. I was like, this is I the best setup I could possibly be. Be, and this thing came out in 40 yards and he looked right at me and I didn't even move, and he was gone.

Isn't that crazy how they do that sometimes? I know. And sometimes I don't even know that they see you. It's just they just have it. They're weary. They're weary where they're just like, something's not adding up here and I'm out. Yeah. I think, yeah, it's so funny because how many times have you heard or saw a deer when they're walking and they're like, bink, they're looking up and they pin you, but then there's other deer that just go through it.

[00:39:00] I, we rarely hunt from the ground, right? We see hundreds now. That's like the thing to do, and there's plenty of hunters that are great, but when you think about these turkeys, one, their eyesight's impeccable, like what we're just talking about. But then we're also on their ground level.

Like we're at their level to make difficult, even harder for us. . Yeah. That's where patience, the older I've gotten, I realize that's a, that's huge. Yeah. Taking your time, walking trying to listen as you're walking and paying attention to your surroundings. So since you're a phenomenal caller , I don't know about that.

do you, when you're going into the whitetail woods, like when it is deer season and you're going after a big buck? Yeah. Are you calling, walking in with the turkeys? Just to break that up a little bit. You mean if I'm actually hunting deer, but Yeah. If you're hunting deer, are you with a mouth called Turkey?

I've never done that. Yeah. That'd be something. . That'd be a good idea. Yeah. I now, in the fall if. Fall turkey's in. I do carry a call with me and if I usually see a flock in the [00:40:00] fall while I'm hunting archery, I'll get it out. Yeah. But I haven't ever had a, I had never got one because I heard, I've seen, I've actually, I've talked to some people that like they do that just to especially if the leaves are really crunchy.

Makes sense. Makes sense. I'm just a shitty game caller when it comes to that. I'd be like, those deer would be like, yeah, that ain't no Turkey. I'm out here. That makes sense. Yeah. Might be something I have to, there you go. Start trying. You're gonna be like, Hey Jeremy, Dimitri. We just I just put one down this buck crest over the nice ridge here and I just blasted them.

No, that's cool man. I'm trying to think. There was something else. What about gun? What gun are you using? So I use a, it's a 12 gauge Tristar and I've been using that gun since 2010 or 2011. And I was having a hard time back then. I went through three, three guns and I know they were the, it's not the gun.

It, I just wasn't finding the right choke pattern or choke and shells to get the pattern I was looking for. So my dad actually found a company [00:41:00] rhino choke tubes. They still make chokes, but they were teamed up with Tristar at the time and I got ahold of them because my dad letting me know that they would basically guarantee you a pattern with their, with heavy shot mag blends, rhino choke tube and this tri-star gun.

So that's what I ended up going with and I've been using it and I'm I'm. It's a good patterning gun and I'm very confident in it. Okay. I don't know if I ever told you guys a story. I found a better patterning gun and I hung this one up on the shelf for one, one day. Okay. . And that was because I got one day to hunt while I was in the academy.

Okay. Very first day of spring gobbler season in 2014. I missed three gobbler that day. On three, I called in three separate gobbler and missed all of them with this gun that I, it pattern's great. [00:42:00] But I was like I've never used that gun since and it still sits in my gun save. And I've used that Tristar ever since.

Wow. I just lost confidence and I'm confident with that gun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now do you use a red dot or anything? I just use bead. and I always have with my daughter though, I have red dots for them and they're the thing in the, that's that's what I would use if I wasn't still just confident in using my bead setup.

, because they're perfect. They're you hone right in on that gobbler with that red dot, and they do a great job of being the, my daughters are, you can tell that they're focused on that gobbler with that red dot. Yeah. Yeah. You said about patterns, so double it down.

Oh, yeah. What are you, what, like, when you look at that and you're like, wow, this actually patterned better than my Tristar, but obviously, yeah. I don't remember exactly what numbers I was getting with that gun, but my Tristar now [00:43:00] pattern N compared to now with this TSS loads is two different things.

Okay. But. Back then I was get you're shooting the gun at 40 yards, at least I am. And I think most people are, they're, and they're shooting it at like a sheet of paper or cardboard, probably three by three, I would guess. And you take your, you figure out your pattern. You look at the cardboard, wherever your most bbs are.

You have a 10, like if you take a paper plate is typically about 10 inches round. You circle that and then you start counting all the bbs within that. Okay. Within that 10 inch circle and whatever amount that you come up with. So at the time that my Tristar probably gets, I think it's around 220 bbs in attendance circle at 40 yards, which is phenomenal.

Yep. And that's where I'm comfortable with shooting. I, I. Really shoot past that. But these guns now with the my daughters are shooting at [00:44:00] TSS loads out of a four 10, and that four 10, they're getting like a hundred, I don't know, like 150 to 180 bbs out of a four 10 at 40 yards with the TSS loads.

Now they're nine and a half, 10, nine and a half shot or 10 shot. But yeah, they're it's impeccable. And they the weight of 'em is comparable to don't quote me on this, but like num number nine, TSS weight wise is comparable to a number five lead. Okay. So when they're hitting them, you're getting the impact's the same . So even though it's smaller shot. Yeah. That's what I know even a lot of adult hunters that are going to the four 10 with the tss, just because it's a lighter gun, less of a kick, yeah. And it's going to, produce the same. Yeah. You can get those, I don't know about now, cuz of inflation, they're 300 bucks.

Yeah. Like the, I know the four or five years ago though, Steven's four tens. I have one. Yeah. Was like 1 99. I bought one for $180 and that my one daughter still uses it. [00:45:00] And then I have four, four, or no, I'm sorry, three, four tens now. Yeah, each one has their own , which is completely unnecessary cuz they, I can't take 'em all three at the same time.

Yeah. And I have to help them like, aim and whatnot. They're in between my legs and I support the gun as they're aiming. Yeah. Yeah, . Now I did find a neat trick last year because a lot of times I I was I think hindering them a little bit as far as I was holding the gun.

They're sitting down here and I'm steering the gun, but I can't really tell what they're aiming at. So what I did was I bought a monopod and I stick it in. Now if the gobbler comes within a, a certain degree they'll be able to shift a gun on that monopod. But it's worked out pretty good so far.

That's great. Yeah. But if it, if they come way off to the side one way or the other, I'm gonna have to pick it up off the monopod. That day we were citing in our rifles this year, that one guy with his daughter, when she was citing in with her three 50 legend [00:46:00] Yep. Was on one of those motto pods.

And same thing, Andrew. It was cool to just watch her go up to it. She just went here, bang. You know what I mean? Yep. It was just such a cool thing. And what you just said I remember being a youth hunter, my dad, same thing. Just No, you're good. Same thing, just was like slowly moving me.

Yeah. Fall 'em, fall of the bird. Yeah. That's, that worked out real well. And that was my first time trying that. The monopod was, and I think I thought of it in the past, but the one I have is about as shorter as you can get now. You can extend it. Yeah. But it was still too high for my younger two daughters.

Okay. Because even on its low, unless I could jam it down in the ground, far enough that where it was still, the gun was still sitting too high for them to Yeah. Get down on. Yeah. Goals going into this season, what is it, what are they goals? I'd be lying if I didn't want, didn't say that I want to kill a goler in every state that I go to, but the goal is to go out there and just have a good time.

I, I enjoy every moment that I'm out there, [00:47:00] especially with my daughters, my dad. My buddies. So as long as we're having a good time, which we always do, so that's the goal. Now, on a killing aspect of it, that's not what it's all about, but, Obviously that's what I'm out there trying to do.

Yeah. But yeah, that I would like to I'm planning on hitting at least three or four states this year, so it'd be nice to tag one in all of them. Yeah. Three or four birds. , how many states are you up to? 15. Okay. Yeah. I sh I was lucky enough, Delaware was the only state last year that I didn't kill.

And Delaware's a tough, it's just, there's just not a lot of opportunity unless you have private. That was the only state I didn't kill in last year, and I, like I said I came extremely close. It was a situation where it was a touched too far and there, there ended up being, coming. I'm going on a story now.

No, that's good. They ended up, that's good. Ended up being another hunter in there and [00:48:00] I wasn't sure if he was working those I wasn't familiar with the area, obviously, and I just. I didn't feel comfortable shooting it if he was already there, and it was a touch too far anyway, and it just, it didn't feel right to me.

I went back in there the next couple days and never never got to work him again. But that was the only, I ended up shooting seven Gobbler last year. And then, like I said, each of my three daughters shot some. I was there from, I was there for my dad he killed one when I was with him.

I was there with my brother. He killed one. So I got to, I, I typically get action, but it's because I'm, I'm out there. I'm just an a, I'm just relentless, I guess you could say. I just enjoy it so much that I'm gonna be hunting if I can. So you're like we can go out on a limb and say you're a hundred percent full in that's when it comes to Turkey.

What would you say is your percentage when it's the whitetails? Early season, like I told you, my oldest daughter has been getting into archery a little bit. . So we, I take her I hunt so much in [00:49:00] the spring. I almost feel guilty going out in the fall. Going in the fall. So what I've, this is the compromise I have with my wife, and I don't know that she's ever agreed to this compromise.

I just, this is . This is just me saying this. She I always tell her every Halloween, you will not see me a whole lot for the next two weeks. And that's usually when I'm in the woods. And I do get out as much as I can. I will say I I spend a lot of, like a couple hours in the morning and a couple hours in the evening.

Those days of me with all day sits just don't seem to happen as much anymore, just because something's going on. And not, it's not that I don't enjoy it or. , man, I get cold and maybe I gotta get some of this new camo because I'm telling you, we gotta, we'll figure something out, Andrew. My dad bought me some heated socks because I'm always complaining that my feet start freezing and that's, but yeah, so I, I haven't tried 'em out.

I got this for Christmas because that's, that was like a thing [00:50:00] that I had, like I, I've enjoyed going out Turkey hunting last year. Actually I didn't get out once. Just, I was coaching this year I'm not. So I plan on coming out a lot. Yeah, I know you said that. So I'm really excited for this spring.

But yeah, I, when it comes to the whitetail, obviously that's oh, you guys are fanatics about it. Yeah. You guys are like, yeah, I am for Turkey. Yeah, exactly. Which I'm into, don't get me wrong, I'm into deer. . Yeah. If I turn around here and I'm looking at those, do I tail? Yeah. Yeah.

You, yeah. You're in the, I don't have anything hanging on my wall like that. Meer. . Oh, shit. That's my fo my focus when I was younger was deer hunting. Okay. But it's a, in the past 10 years, when I start my very first trip, which I showed you that gobbler that's mounted out there, from my very first trip, from that trip on, I have been addicted to Turkey hunting.

Yeah. And that was and I kick myself because the guys in the Turkey coal company with me, Tony, and Tyler, they were always like begging me to go on these Turkey. They knew I was a [00:51:00] Turkey hunter. I've always been into it. and boy, do I kick myself now for not going there. Yeah. Because , that's what I look forward to year round.

, I'm like staying awake until 11, 12 o'clock looking on maps, trying to figure out where. And that's half the fun though, because whenever it happens, when you put all that time into it, like you guys know with it it's just so rewarding. Dude. It was rewarding hearing you just say you killed seven last year.

Like that, like to me, like I'm sitting here yeah. As if I was a part of it in a sense. We gotta get him to meet Tim. . So our He's a fanatic too. Yeah. Oh yeah. Big Turkey. Fanatic. Tim used to make his own old calls as well. Nice. Did he have a company or just made him for He did himself and friends.

I think he partnered with someone. Okay. Before we won't say any names, so Yeah. He did partner with someone in the past and I think he still has all the presses in there. All the presses and everything like that. And he goes out west. He's done, I know he is done out west. I know he is done down south we will have [00:52:00] to next time he's out here we'll have to see if you're, that'd be cool.

Yeah. You're free because he is a fanatic. Yeah. Actually he worked he helped out at the tethered booth for the Great American Outdoor Show, and he heard them talking about the new veer coming out. Did you see that by chance? , I'll have to show you it. Tethered, the Saddle Hunting Company.

Yep. They released a brand new Running Gun mobile. M two vest. They worked with the hunting public, basically. Okay. The M two stands for the most modular system, so you could run it with two different ways. You could have a water bladder pack, which is Yeah. Could also hold a ton of gear in the backpack.

And then there's a bird bag. I thought you were gonna say beer. Yeah. Yeah. You could hear beer too. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it sure can. And then there's the bird bag that like, cinch down so it's not out back. So the guys from hunting public that, they're always on their go running and gunning and making sure they had, their needs and, carl's a wizard when it comes to. Designing things. Just, yeah, he builds his own houses, like no one's [00:53:00] touching what Carl's doing. So for two years, Carl set out to make the best Turkey vest possible. Oh, no way. So it's this, it's a modular set up. It's like a harness here.

Yep. In the front. And then, like I said, there's two different attachments in the back that you could either choose from the run and it has a weight belt waist. Hip waist. Yep. Yeah, so long story short he was working this event and he was like, what do you know that's coming? I'm like, all I know is that there's a Turkey vest coming and it'll be released next week at the Nwtf.

That's all I know. I said, I don't know really what it looks like. He's ah, dang it. He's yeah I'm fired up about like hearing and stuff like that. So I'll have to show you. Yeah. You send you some videos of that's, but but yeah, Tim's a die hard when it comes to turkeys too.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm in, I'm almo. You know me. I'm always down to talk to you. I know. There was something too about Pennsylvania that I was. I was trying to muster up, but I can't think about it. , what about, tell, like Jeremy was gonna say, tell us a little bit about the calls of, yeah. Making the calls and, how the, maybe a little bit about the process of someone maybe that doesn't know what [00:54:00] goes into a diaphragm call and, we'll lead into, okay. The different of calls, the diaphragm calls you make and how you come up with the different cuts and everything, yeah. That goes into that. So I have a couple different presses. The, I know everybody can't see it, but these two are the same. And then this one's from making like youth calls, like they're smaller frame, but the standard size, I basically just started out experimenting between like double reads.

First I started with the, what was easier now I had Tony's been making my business partner. , he's been making calls for a long time and he actually showed me and we were making 'em on these mad. I got one right here. It's like a little mad call maker. And we were making 'em on these for years.

And they work they work great, but as far as reproducing, and they're not, you're not gonna get the accuracy on the stretch. So we ended up buying industrial presses and just started experimenting [00:55:00] with different re each. You can buy reeds and different thicknesses and then different colors.

And I think the colors actually play into the di sounds, believe it or not, all as well as the thickness. And the stretch. But you just start playing around with the different combinations and then, I, I started putting different cuts. Like I would leave, I would start with a split v, a basic cut.

Then I'd maybe take one side off and make it into a cutter call. And I just kept experimenting with all the different combinations and cut it down to where I couldn't cut it anymore. And if I didn't, if I found one I liked, you'd see on my notepad here. I just started writing down different tensions and different things that I, I.

liking and just kept track of it so I could reproduce it. And then I started handing 'em out to Tony and Tyler and buddies and just saying, Hey, let me hear you call on this. Can you reproduce it? And good sound out of it. And we never replicated a call until I [00:56:00] got like an okay from Tony, Tyler and buddies that yeah, this is a good call.

So then I knew it was user friendly for most people because I call totally different than Tony and Tyler call. I can't work many calls. It has to be a user friendly call for me in order to run one. So once I knew, and Tony, he can, I swear he could stick any any call in his mouth and he sounds great.

Yeah. So once we all got on the same page, that's how we all started out was I would just keep writing down different combinations, different cuts, and start handing 'em out to those guys. And that's, we ended up, I think we have a dozen calls now. I'm not sure, but and just kept handing 'em out and Yep.

That's how it all started. Yeah. I just know for me I always wanted to learn, using a diaphragm call even when I was little and, started Turkey hunting, but I just always struggled with it so much. I had people trying to teach me and, I think I went a couple of those, like n w.

Ts Yeah. Things like that. And people were teaching you and stuff, and I remember, I just always never really [00:57:00] got it down, too much. . For me being below average callers, I've used your calls, multiple times now. Yeah. And killed a couple birds with them the last couple years and, and for me, yeah, they definitely are user friendly just because, like me, like even I've tried several diaphragm calls and, like you said, there's some that, I can't even make a sound out of, I'm doing the exact same thing that I'm doing with this other call.

And I'm sounding okay. I never say sound good, but I'm sounding okay and, usable and then do the same thing with this call and it's I can't even make a sound out of this thing, yeah. And that's how I got started making 'em, because I thought, boy, I'm going out and I'm spending eight to $10 or and more now on a call where.

I might throw it into garbage at five seconds after I pop it in my mouth. And give it a run. And I just thought there's gotta be I gotta start experiment in doing my own thing because it just isn't making sense for me to just keep buying and tossing 10 out of 12, out the garbage trash.

I, I will [00:58:00] echo exactly what Dimitri said. For myself, there's a time where I know for a fact. your calls. I sound better than even using Slate or anything else. Oh, that's great. There, I remember even a couple years ago when we were testing him out and you're like, that actually sounded really good.

When I, with me call, like I, yeah. I can't really, I'm the same wave. Like when he shoots his bow, I'm like, holy shit, that thing is quiet. And I'm like, when I shoot my bell, I'm like, to me it sounds loud, right? Cause I'm right there in the moment. Yeah. He's no, that that's quiet.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Type of ordeal. And it's the same thing for me. I'm like, now I can't per, I can't do the cute stuff. . I'm like, I'm yelping. That's pretty, but as far as that goes, I do. I actually, that's great. Dimitri said, I feel pretty good about them.

That, that's rewarding to hear. Yeah. Because. That's the type of, you guys are the ones that maybe you don't, I practice all the time and I should be a lot better than what I am, but for how much I call. But a guy that's just popping a call in, right before season and Yeah. And isn't the most experience, those are the people that I think, and you hit that and I'm [00:59:00] being, I'm not trying to be a homer and say in front of your face and in your house, like that I'm being dead serious.

Like we could actually, that was the goal. Yeah. That was my goal because it all started out. I am so obsessed about tur hu Turkey hunting. I love hearing people's success stories. Not so much like I, I like hearing, Hey, this call works. So they start using our calls because you guys are having success with them.

But then I get to hear the story that somebody killed a gobbler with something that I made and it's just so rewarding to hear that. Yeah. What's your go-to? The Black Widow? Yeah, it's a triple reed call. It's like a bat wing style cut. Little bit unique. Cut in it. It's like rectangles, but that one's my, my favorite.

And I've been working with a new ghost cut call that I haven't even marketed yet or anything. , it's just something I tried out last weekend at a calling contest that I went to and I really liked it. Yeah. You guys won, right? I took first in the amateur division and then I placed sixth in the [01:00:00] open division.

Okay. So yeah, it was, they're, when you go to those, you're competing against some of the top guys in the nation. So the competition is there. Yeah. No doubt, but I left there. It, that's only the second one I've ever done, and I'm sure I'll probably do more in the future, but I didn't feel I gave my best performance, which made me feel even.

Better about it because I, I know maybe, hey, if I would've done a little bit better, maybe I could have placed a little bit better in the open or Right. It gave me, I know there's room to improve. Heck yeah. Yeah. I like it. What about, the la the life of a call. Like when do you think, maybe you should, that's a great question.

Get a new one. Whether you like that call and you want the exact same thing, cuz I've heard people say you should change 'em up yearly, or, yeah. If you're gonna use that season after season what is your suggestion in terms of that? Yeah. I run calls so much that I'm switching 'em out like monthly, but I'm notable You're at a different level.

Yeah. Yeah. So [01:01:00] I actually think for an average person, That is calling, on a, just in hunting season and practicing a little bit before, I think you could hang on to a Turkey call. And this isn't smart of me to say because I'm in this business and selling Turkey calls, but a couple years, as long as at the end of the season you're rinsing 'em off and clean, like I always dip 'em in Listerine and wash 'em off with water, tap water and then I'll let 'em dry and then air dry and then I'll stick him in the fridge for, and Tyler I think sticks his in the freezer. But either one and like the butter dish, so whenever you up the butter dish to get something, they all fall out on the ground. Yeah. But your wives will like that. Yeah. But that's where I put mine and yeah.

So I, I could get a couple seasons easily. What I find, because I have the habit of leaving a call in my mouth all the time when I'm hunting. And. The tape the stickiness will start separating the [01:02:00] tape. Yeah. And that usually causes me not to get as good of a seal. And that's not just with like my, our calls here at Honey Hole.

That's been throughout my life before I even started making 'em. It's just, that's just what happens and . Yeah, I think you could get a couple seasons if you take care of it. Put now, if you leave it in the sun or in your car, it's going to, it's gonna dry rot and Right. And not sound as good.

But I think some of the calls that you've broke in for a year or two might be your best sound of calls, come your three or . Yeah. If you're taking care of 'em, like you said. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think is the biggest mistake? People that use diaphragm calls makes calling too much. Okay.

That would be my opinion. There's a time and a place, and I know we touched on this earlier, I tried to read to Gobler Before I, if I'm not hearing something, I don't wanna be a hypocrite and say this, but I'll start out usually slow, but before I leave that spot, if I'm doing just some plain yelps or I'm doing some [01:03:00] clocking and I'm not hearing anything before I leave that spot, you best believe that unless I'm planning on walking the rest away out this ridge, but if I'm just stopping in an area to call and that's what I'm doing I'm cranking on that call at the end to make try cutting and maybe, and calling loud. Maybe I can reach out to something or fire something up. Or maybe that's what something wanted to hear was right. So yeah, that's my strategy usually is, but calling too much.

I think is a problem that will hang up a gobbler. And I've learned that through my own trial in Harris , yep. And I have a , so last time I was in Mississippi when I said I was calling to that gobbler that was on private ground, there was a, I'm assuming he was a local, he had a southern draw to him.

And , he ended up coming over to me because the gobbler was responsive to me and I don't know if he was on that private or if he was on the public or if he was just [01:04:00] happening through the area, but he said, yeah, y'all call too much. And so I thought maybe he's right. I don't know. But the gobbler was gobbling, so I was, yeah, I was trying everything to get it to come over onto the public.

I don't know. , I remembered that time a couple years ago when we were by the fire tower of me, you and your dad. We thought we were working a gobbler and it was another hunter. . We were like, it took us, what, 25 minutes till we were finally, we were like, that's another hunter. . . Yeah. Oh man. That was good stuff.

What what are must-haves in that vest? What are like at all times do you have, with you even counting call, like obviously your calls, what kind of calls or do you gotta you just doing the alcohol? Who like mouth do you have? What's in your vest? So I always have a slate call.

Okay. I don't use it very often, but I do use it from time to time. A pile, mouth calls, obviously crow call. , I usually do the hoo I do have one in my vest, but I [01:05:00] rarely use it. I'll do it with my naturally. Really good. Yeah. . Yeah. . I dunno about that. Obviously a lot of shells. I take a box call.

I like being able to reach out there on a box call. And a lot, I, I have this knee pad that I've just carried around forever and really I always try to get it on my knee to set my gun, un rest it on, because feels like the bottom of where the ejection or , yeah. The port is . It seems like it's always digging into my knee, so I, it's just habit.

I always put that on, not necessarily cuz I need it, but it's just, yeah. It's comfortable. It's comfortable. And now it's almost good luck. Yeah. For me. And but as long as I have mouth calls I'm good to go. That's normally what I have and normally what I'm running. Yeah.

I'm trying to think what else. I used to carry around a bread bag to simulate, like some guys would carry around a Turkey wing or just flap their hat on their leg. But there, there was a bread bag I saw somebody do one time and they just kept pulling [01:06:00] it and it sounded like wings flapping.

So I carried one of those around for a while. But the biggest thing in the, with that vest is that I'm telling you that frame so I can Yeah. Sit back and relax. Yeah. Whenever there's not a tree available or, I don't want to cause a whole lot of movement. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I don't carry a whole lot of stuff.

, how was your whitetail season? Not bad. My daughter, my youngest shot her first buck. Nice. With the rifle I think it was the last day, no, second to last day, it was on Friday. And then I ended up shooting one in with a rifle. Yep. Nothing to brag home about. It was, but it, I got my triple trophy this year cuz I shot a bear.

I shot a gobbler Nice. In the fall. And then I wanted to be able to say I shot the triple trophy . Yeah. I actually, I remember you actually now sending me that, that message about the triple trophy. So now that I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. You said you were after a big one, you didn't get a chance to get a crack at him, but you were after another big one this year.

Yeah. Rumor has it, yeah. [01:07:00] got poached. Yeah, . We saw a picture video of him, man. He was a doozy. Oh yeah. I don't know what, it's depressing. , do you go out much? When you're out here scouting for Turkey, do you go out and Mark things when you see Whitetail sign and I do. Yeah. I I'm always marking on Onyx.

It's that's the app I use. Yeah. And I'm always, anytime there's Turkey sign or I almost get confused cuz I can't even keep track of it. But I think you can keep notes and different things, but yeah, I'm not the best with doing that stuff, but if I have a pin somewhere, I know there's a reason if it's a Turkey on there.

Okay. Yeah, there's something. Yeah, I'm always using, that's such a good tool. I know everybody's using it and I, I've said this before, I almost wish we'd go back to not having them because it's so easy now. It's a tool for everybody. Everybody. Yeah. And people that normally wouldn't spend the time getting maps and everything, they have access [01:08:00] very at their fingertips.

Then it's helped me immensely. I'm not saying Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Same here. Now I'm like, oh, there's a thermal hub. I know actually what the hell that is because of being able to listen to podcasts and look at these maps and everything like that. And, I've actually, I don't know.

It's just like you said, it's, look at Kansas right now. Kansas is banning trail cameras. Yep. I just, oh, they really? Yep. I just saw that. Wow. They're like, Hey, no one come here and hunt anymore. Applications were up like a hundred percent last year, so I don't know what they're game, I don't know if that's like why or what, but yeah, I'm, that's one thing, like you said, like the online tool.

If they ban TRO cameras, like obviously we wanna protect hunting, but I wouldn't mind that. Yeah. You know what I mean? I hunt in the fall off fresh sign and, yeah. And I like the surprise and I'm never hunting one specific buck. So I wouldn't mind it. And, I think that would give me more of an advantage versus some people out in the woods that rely on 'em and, try to use that.

. So if it's a tool that's legal, I'm gonna use it and try to make my odds [01:09:00] better. But, if they banned it. But the problem is I worry about them doing this, more for a political standpoint than it is for like the actual game commission wanting, protecting other hunters.

You. Are they trying to, they, it's hard for them to ban hunting, right? I feel like there's such a group that they would have a hard time just like saying, Hey, hunting's illegal. So what they do is if they can create less hunters and, implement bills that's gonna cause less hunters and, less revenue to that.

Is that how they're way into, limit hunting for us? It's hard to say, right? Yeah. It's decisions that as hunters we gotta have to make at what's best for us. It's the same thing right now in Iowa. I had, I don't know, to the t and I don't want to misspeak on it, Uhhuh , but it's the same thing.

They're trying to do something along the lines of with the cross, but I think it's a crossbow season and a air bow or something like that. It's, where like a company New York is basically paying lobbyists to, for political [01:10:00] people in Iowa would've just passed this law.

And it's whoa, no. Yeah. Type of ordeal. It's weird. Yeah, I know. Iowa's a state that I would love to hunt for whitetail here. I'm sure you guys were. Yeah. Yeah. I guess you have to. It's a point system that takes it's a point. System takes a few years to keep right now as we speak, I'm on three points.

Oh, good for you. Yeah. So I have a buddy that's going next year. He, yeah. Hope, what is it? Five points? Yeah. You pretty much guaranteed. Pretty much. Yeah. He's, I wouldn't be surprised if point creep, , if unfortunately for your buddy, like if five, we had, like what we said earlier our friend Tim and Tom and Tom, they were pretty much almost like a hundred percent for a mule deer hunt last year.

Didn't get it. 0%. They didn't get it. So it's like you hear, right? You're, the same thing too for Kansas. Like I have two points for Kansas now, luckily for some of these states, Kansas Iowa, like Iowa obviously still is a. . It's only, I say only, but it's, you don't have to buy any license or anything like that.

It's 50 [01:11:00] bucks. So you put 50 bucks. I think Kansas is 30, I believe. Okay. Again, I don't have if I wanna put in a point for Colorado, I have to buy some license and other things like that. So it ends up being pricing. Yeah. When it comes to this time, I'm on a budget, right?

Yeah. I'm like, there's certain things where I allot money for and to do, and a 50 and 30 oh, I'm only, I'm less than a hundred dollars for quote unquote points for things I want to hunt. When it gets more than that, I have to, put in, basically watch what I'm doing. But long story short, I have two for Kansas, and people say oh, I drive every year.

Oh, I drive every other year, or something along those lines. And yeah, I know, like I said, last year's applications were up like a lot and there was a lot more pressure last year. So I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Probably not, like Dimitri said, who knows what, the way things will go in the government sometimes, right?

Yeah. I can tell you there's states that I've hunted for Turkey 10 years ago, and I looked at Tony and I said, are you sure it's the first day here? Because we didn't see [01:12:00] anybody. We went back to that same state four years later, and it was like, there were people everywhere. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, it's weird.

Weird. There's, I see, like Dimitri said they're legal here. There's aspects of trail cameras that I really like and enjoy and utilize them for. Yep. But like you said, to rely on them, yeah, I don't either. It's that once you do it burns you, man. Yep. I've, I've felt that.

Yeah, I agree. Sweet man. Andrew, I, dude, I can't wait to see what the hell, how many birds you killed this year. As a whole, I think I was counting between, between. You and your daughters and like you said, your brother and your dad, you're probably up to 12 or 13.

Yeah. You need to throw in your buddies. You're probably up to 20. . Yeah. I was fortunate it was a good season last year, not to tell every tell everybody to come here or toot my own. It just worked out that now I didn't kill all those gobbler here in pa. Those were all different states. But yeah, it was a great year and [01:13:00] hopefully I can, I don't know, we'll see what happens.

Last, like I said, Mississippi's gonna be a tough one. Yeah. Good after it, man. So you, real quick before we get off, you've done the Grand Slam, correct? Yeah. Do you have any desire to do it again? Yeah I'm after that US Slam. Okay. And basically that's the 49 states. Excluding Alaska where there's no non tars.

Yeah. Yeah. But I I didn't start wanting to do that until two or three years ago. I've always just wanted to just, I just wanna hunt. I don't care if it's Anest Eastern. I don't care if it's a Miriam, I don't care if it's an Oola. I just wanna hunt Turkey. And I'm still that way, but now it's it's a cool goal to try to achieve.

I don't know if I'll ever get it, but yeah. Try for it. Hell man. Yeah. At least you're seeing the country. Yeah. You're seeing all this. Beautiful. That's the other thing, what's out there, that's the other thing. Adventure. Yep. Exactly. It might become a Turkey hunter, Dimitri just like it's . Say, we're going here.

We're going, man. No, man. Andrew, I appreciate you opening up your house to Dimitri and I coming here. Thanks for coming Anytime hunting [01:14:00] and talk, ul in us with the old Turkey Talk and last year we didn't do any Turkey episode basically. So this was a pleasure to talk. It gets me fired up.

I'm ready to, hit some mouth calls in the car on the drive home. Yeah. I appreciate it, man. Yeah, thanks. Ram me off. Where could people, go check out your calls and follow along with what you guys are doing? Yeah. Honey Hole game is our website and then we're on Instagram, it's Honey Hole game calls also on Facebook.

And then our email is honey Hole Okay. And if you check out any, if you're in the central Pennsylvania area I'm not talking Harrisburg, I'm talking more like State College, that Center County region. You guys do a lot of shows, like you did the Altoona Outdoor Show this weekend.

Yeah. Is the Clearfield one. We'll be at Clearfield this weekend. Obviously this won't air in time for that to, to Yeah. All that jazz. But if you guys. See anything local that are local listeners, if you see you know that double H on there, go, that'd be cool. Check out Andrew, what his buddies are doing, so that'd be great.

Yeah. Appreciate it buddy. Thank [01:15:00] you. Thanks again everybody for tuning in. We'll see you next week Aunt Laura. Up.