Wild Hunting & Poaching Stories With 2 Game Wardens

Show Notes

On today’s show with GunBroker.com, we’re talking hunting and conservation. Both Chris Powell from Houndsman XP Podcast and Rick Larnerd from Gobbler Knob Long Rifles have backgrounds in serving as a game warden in some point of their lives. We start out this episode diving into poaching. Rick goes into the game warden side of things which includes a conversation on how and what deer decoys they could use to potentially attract a poacher. You may be surprised at the style of decoy they have to use! We talk hunting accidents in different types of hunting for different game, with many of those being firearm related. Make sure to listen in to this episode sponsored by GunBroker.com to hear us dive into how to avoid putting yourself in one of these situations.

Up next, Rick dives into a poaching story from his time in rural Pennsylvania. Having to make a quick stop off the road, he pulls next to a barn that had multiple whitetail hanging. A little while later after a stakeout, he had some fast action that led to an arrest. You have to listen to how crazy this story is. Chris also gives us one of his most memorable cases, when a guy shot fourteen turkeys during spring turkey season. A multi-state investigation led to this guy landing himself in some major hot water!

Closing out, Chris talks about the parts of the job that are gratifying versus the parts of the job that really weigh on you after multiple years as a game warden. A lot of it may not always be black and white even though that’s how it’s presented most of the time. Chris gives an excellent example on this episode, make sure to listen to this fantastic story of his. Allen gives us the rundown on hunting rifle sales on GunBroker.com with most bolt action rifles moving super quick, but if you need that last minute new hunting rifle, head over to GunBroker.com to pick yours up today!

The show launches every Thursday morning. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

Check out the Sportsmen's Empire Podcast Network for more relevant outdoor content!

Show Transcript

Hi everyone. Welcome to the no low ballers podcast. I'm Logan Medish of high caliber history, your host, and I'm seated around the table with a great group of guys. We've got Alan from gun broker. We've got Chris from houndsman XP, and we've got Rick from gobbler, knob, long rifles and we're. We're talking hunting, and we're talking conservation.

Because it's that time of year, and we've got the perfect people sitting around the table with us to do just that, and when I say perfect people, I'm not referring to Alan in his Go Wild and Gun Broker co branded. I heard we're going to have some conservation officers on. I wanted to just play it safe, make sure you're in the damn game wardens.

That's the title of the episode. It's damn game warden. Would've gotten away with it too, but wouldn't for those pesky game wardens,[00:01:00] I'm sure you guys have heard that a lot. We had a podcast called the laws down the road. And there's a story that goes with that. Okay. But yeah, so that's what we're doing here is both Chris and Rick have backgrounds in.

game warden. I'm sure you guys called them different things in Pennsylvania and Indiana. So I've been trying to keep this secret for a long time. Logan, thanks for exposing me. We will put you in the no low ballers witness protection program. It's what he does. He outs people's gun broker accounts.

He outs people's former. It's just what he does. Yeah. It's the thing we've been called a bunch of things throughout my career. Assholes probably the nicest one. Yeah, but the funniest one I heard was when I moved to Tennessee from Pennsylvania and, up there we were called wildlife conservation officers at that.

Time, although Pennsylvania has since renamed them to game wardens because, again, they went back to game. Yeah. Yeah. It was game protector at first and then wildlife conservation officer. Now it's state game warden. Wow. But anyway, possum cop is [00:02:00] possum cop, turtle trooper.

I never heard trout trooper. I've heard Trout Schumer, but Cricket Dick was, I heard that when I came here and I'll tell you what, I was drinking coffee at the time and it came out my nose. Oh my God. For sure. I feel so boring. I've never heard this from any of the Nebraska Conservation guys I know and hang out with, but I got a whole new list to start calling them.

Yeah, that's right. I used to work for the National Park Service in Virginia. And and of course, I got the badge and everything on the Park Service uniform. was not law enforcement with the park service, but we had, I lived lived in this little neighborhood. I was renting an attic of all places.

I was fresh out of college and there were the quintessential rednecks lived across the street, the cars up on cinder blocks, the engines in the lawn, and they would see me come home from work every day, in my uniform Very drunkenly one time, cause they were very loud. I heard them arguing over what it was that I do for a living.

They're like, Oh, new neighbor's a cop. And you're like, it's not a cop. He's a game warden. Oh, not a game warden. They ran down everything that you wear a badge [00:03:00] for except park service, they never got to it, but, that's something that on a more serious note.

I commonly refer to people on the other side of the law as bad guys, whether they're bad or not. It doesn't matter. There's the good guys and the bad guys. Those are the bad guys. They do not distinguish between the uniform. No, they don't. They see a badge in a uniform. And that represents the law to them.

So most people cannot, or I shouldn't say most, a lot of people don't distinguish between the agencies. They just don't for whatever reason. I always liked it when you're standing in line at say McDonald's for lunch or whatever, and somebody stand there and they're looking at your patch and they're looking at your gun, they're trying to looking at your badge and they're like, and it's written on there, Indiana conservation officer.

And they're like, conservation is a big word, though, for some people. Yeah, a lot of syllables. You a game warden? yEah. Gave it away. So how many ducks did you arrest today? Yes, I am. And can I take a look in the back of your truck, [00:04:00] please? And of course, taking a look in the back of the truck.

That kind of gives us a good segue. We've got to talk about poaching and things. I know you guys have to have some fantastic stories. I know all law enforcement guys have fantastic stories and being in the conservation realm, you guys, I'm sure it can put a different twist on some things.

One of the things that used to drive me nuts and still to this day drives me nuts is when I hear someone say it's okay for somebody to, to kill a deer out of season or to poach if they're going to use the meat. And the reason that drives me nuts is because that is not okay. There are seasons and bag limits for a reason.

If that philosophy is okay, then it must be okay for me to rob a bank if I need the money. That's a great analogy. And the other thing, the other side of that is, you always get that question. What if this guy's really destitute? What if he's, trying to feed his family over the 30 years of going to people's houses?

These supposedly destitute people, they [00:05:00] had money for, you can see the beer cans in the yard, you can see the Marlboro cigarette butts, you can see the satellite dish, all these other things. And it's they, he was just trying to feed his family, right? We used to, Chris, you probably did the same thing, but we used to keep lists of needy families.

And if we got, roadkill deer or one shot for crop damage. Or one that we seized because it was unlawfully taken. That was the first place we took it. That's right. Yeah. We didn't throw them over the bank or put them in a deer pit on the game lanes. We took them to those needy families. Yeah. And that's why that philosophy drives me nuts.

Are there needy people? Absolutely. There are. But those people that you just described are the same ones that I saw too. They had money for beer and cigarettes. They didn't need to be out whacking deer at night. And hunters in general tend to be some of the most giving people out there, and there's the hunters for the hungry program and stuff.

And, and I know plenty of people that, they go hunting every year and they don't even like the meat. They donate it to the hunters for the hungry program and stuff, and it's yeah, [00:06:00] there, there is a way people are not going to go hungry. With the wild game, they don't need to be out there.

And it always strikes me as funny how the tasty animals for those folks are the ones with the really big antlers. Always. Yeah, it's always, it's just weird coincidence. Yeah. Yeah. Backstrap. There's a correlation between antlers and backstraps and the flavor factor goes up. There's a whole chart, we, there, there is, but I'm not sure it works out the right direction.

Crazy hot chick matrix. Exactly. The crazy hot chick matrix. There is a a antler tasty tenderloin matrix. We call it antler auto erotica. Yeah, I see big horns and all of a sudden all sort of strange. sensations going on. Yeah. It's funny that we're talking about this because the policy in Pennsylvania for the use of the decoy, which I'm sure you probably had your, you were exposed to that too.

Our policy was you could not use A big racked deer. We never could. It had to be a spike or four pointer, three pointer, something that was just, very mundane. Exactly. Gray man deer. For that [00:07:00] very reason. Because people lose their minds when they see a big rack. Yep. They absolutely come unhinged.

So we, our policy was you couldn't use that. But those that we did use we had fantastic success with, and, you didn't, our policy was also, you couldn't put it out there in the wide open field for everybody to see. It had to be, it had to be hidden in somewhat, so only the road hunter would see it.

Poacher. Yeah, I'm from South Dakota where the joke is, everyone remembers their first deer by the mile marker they were at. So that, that hits a little close to home, you had asked if South Dakota is weird. Anyway, I went, I was a bird hunting in South Dakota and I was hunting with a warden out there.

And we're driving down the road and he's got a shotgun loaded in the front seat of the truck and I'm like, I'm not comfortable with this. And finally he said, are you going to shoot pheasants or are we going to just drive around all day? He goes, it's legal to step out of the truck and shoot a pheasant from here.

That's crazy. Totally [00:08:00] different. Pre 9 11, you have to realize South Dakota was the state because they would always have the news crews there every year for the opener of pheasants. You could fly into Joe Foss Field in Sioux Falls and get off the plane. But before you cleared security to leave, you could pick up your permit, your blaze.

Everything your permits and the minute you pass the metal detectors, you could buy your shotguns and ammo in the airport. Wow. Pre nine. Oh yeah. I mean they would set up. It was amazing. Yeah. That's cool. It was, that's really cool. You had talked about decoys and stuff and that immediately pings in my mind, turkey hunting and reaping with the fans.

And I know that in Tennessee, that was just made illegal. this year. Everything that's fun is illegal. Yes. All sorts. Women aren't illegal yet. Oh, that's true. It will be. It's yeah. Anyway, that's another thing. But talking about the reaping and Because there's been concern that, oh, there's too many people getting shot, by the Reaper, guys out there with the Reaper fans.

And [00:09:00] I'm curious, have you, did you guys run into any issues of guys getting shot, being mistaken for turkeys? Yes, but not in scenarios like that. Okay. Pennsylvania for unfortunately during my time and I served from 1987 until 2007 full time and then I was a deputy for two years before I left Pennsylvania altogether.

Yes, the district that I had was Bradford County, Pennsylvania, and that had a trauma center, which was A helicopter flight from all surrounding counties and New York. So it was my job. If there was a hunting related shooting incident that occurred in another county and the victim was flown to my hospital, I was tasked with going there to try to talk to that person.

This first of all, see who shot him. If he knew and so yeah, I've seen lots and lots of shooting related or hunting related shooting incidents, but I've never investigated one where a hunter used a fan, lots of guys have been shot, stalking turkeys, but I've never [00:10:00] seen them, a situation like that.

Yeah. Where I worked was a hotbed for turkey hunting in the state of Indiana, Southeast there. And the interesting thing is it over the years, people have again, misnamed something or mislabeled something. It's easy to talk about hunting accidents. I like what you, the way you put it.

You didn't say investigated hunting accidents. Ours was sporting arms, casually investigations. So it's very seldom. There was only one incident. In my entire career that it was not due to some form of negligence on the part of the shooter, not identifying target, not having a backstop, unsafe handling of a firearm, things like that, very seldom is it a deal where it's an accident, getting struck by lightning.

Sure. There's only one. I grew up in Michigan and one of my favorite stories was we had a guy who, for whatever reason, decided to go hunting wearing [00:11:00] a zebra print jacket. His logic was... Ted Nugent's from... He is, yes. Yeah, he's Michigan. Yeah, and I'll be hunting with Ted next week, actually. Was it Ted?

No, it wasn't. You're just driving around, you'll be driving around in a zebra striped Bronco. No, Ted Hunt's in leopard print. He's fine. So this guy had a zebra print jacket on and his logic was zebras aren't out in the wild in Michigan so that works good enough as camo anyway, good enough's never good enough, right?

And he got shot by this other guy and so they went and, and they arrested the shooter and they were asking him, like, why the hell did... Did you not see him? And he's no, I saw the guy, or I saw a zebra, and he was like, so I shot at it. And he was like, well, what makes you think there are wild zebra in Michigan?

That's why it's rare. You got a bag in, right? Yeah. But it's like a piebald deer. You got it. Yeah. But it just cracked me up. He was like yeah, I knew exactly what, of course I thought it was a zebra. That's why I shot it. And you're just like. We used [00:12:00] to call them hunting accidents when I first started with a game commission, but it was changed to hunting related shooting incident because if you fell out of your tree stand and broke your arm, that was a hunting accident.

So they were, I don't want to say that they were trying to doctor the numbers, but they didn't want to make it look as bad as what it was looking like. The other part of it is sometimes there's a criminal element to it. When you can show, when you can. Yeah. Yeah. Show negligence on the part of a person and does bodily harm to someone else.

You're responsible at that. You're responsible for that shot that comes out of the end of your barrel. And if you are negligent in the discharge of that firearm and you cause a serious injury or death to somebody, it's not we'll just let you go home and grieve. There's gotta be some responsibility for that.

Sure. Yeah, people think that they're, that it, that there are different rules because, oh I was hunting. No. Murder's still murder. And, homicide is still homicide. As Craig Smith says, every bullet or wad of shot that leaves your barrel has a lawyer attached to it. And that doesn't matter if you're hunting, at 7 Eleven, it don't [00:13:00] matter.

Yep. Yep. Absolutely. So I'm sure you guys have some great poaching stories. And I'll leave it to your discretion as to, the most egregious or the most ridiculous or whatever, but we got to have a good, at least one good poaching story from each of you. Go ahead. That's, man, my career was more than 20 years.

That's a lot of, that's a lot of stuff to go back through. But one, one that does come to my mind happened by chance, really. I was on patrol, it was during deer season, and I had to relieve myself, and I pulled off by the side of the road where there was an old abandoned barn. Now keep in mind this is rural Pennsylvania, there weren't many houses around and you could do that kind of thing.

And as I'm standing there by this barn, I'm on the outside of the barn, I'm looking in and I see a bunch of deer hanging in there. And it's deer season. And I'm thinking to myself, there's nobody around. What, why are these deer in here? And you weren't in the curtilage of anyone's home? No, there [00:14:00] was no, there was a home.

So open fields, doc. Yeah. Yep. So I could tell that they had been shot and they were field dressed, but it was in Pennsylvania at that time, there was a separate deer season for antlered deer. and antlerless deer. These were all antlerless deer during the antlered deer season. So they were illegal.

It wasn't an active farm, so they couldn't be claimed as crop kills. There was a trailer down the road, three or four hundred yards away. And I did some, I left there without going inside. And I did some legwork to find out who lived in that trailer, cause I, my first instinct was whoever lived there is probably the ones who did this.

Found out who they were, and got a phone number for them. This was back before cell phones, they had a home phone. And I instructed one of my deputies, whose daughter was trying to become a deputy as well, I said, here's what I want you to do. We're gonna stake this place out, and I want you to call that house, and I don't care who answers the phone, man or woman.

Don't tell them who you are, but just say, hey, I'm at the courthouse, there's a bunch of game wardens here. Getting [00:15:00] a search warrant and I heard your name mentioned and I want you to hang up the phone Now that was a shot in the dark I had no idea if this person was involved in this or not So we got the place staked out and I radioed I said have her make that call and a couple minutes later They call back and say she made the call They no sooner said that to me than the front door of that trailer burst wide open a guy comes running out of the house He gets into his truck And screams down the road to me, comes in sideways at the barn entrance and runs inside.

And by the time I got to the door, he had a leg of one deer and was trying to grab another one and pull it out. Yeah. And after we talked to him for a few minutes, he confessed that he had killed all those deer. There was five of them and he had killed them all. tHat's being in the right place at the right time.

All because you had to pee. All because I had to pee. Yep. Thank God for that 7 Eleven Big Goal, right? This arrest was brought to you by Dunkin Donuts.

That's a good one. Alright, Chris, what do you got? Probably. There's been [00:16:00] so many crazy like Rick said, 28 years doing it. You get all kinds of crazy stories, but, probably one of the most memorable cases was a guy who had shot 14 turkeys during the spring turkey season. That seems like a little bit over.

Yeah. And it ranged from West Virginia, Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana. This guy just had a problem with shooting turkeys. He was shooting turkeys and checking them in on landowner tags. His, his boss's wife checked one in. And by the time it was all said and done, it was a multi state investigation with 14 deer and Lacey Act violations and the whole nine yards.

Those are the guys that you. You like, yeah, you get some gratification out of pinching them. And we, we have this thing called the wildlife or the yeah, the violator compact and that where if you get caught in one state and your state is a member of that violator compact, you lose your hunting and trapping privileges and that's in that state and every state that's a part of that [00:17:00] compact and that's awesome.

That is, it is on the surface, but the only thing that does is save that guy the money that he's going to spend on a hunting license. Cause if he's a poacher, he's a, he's going to poach, but at least there's a record of it. Yeah. 14 turkeys, man. I don't have a hard enough time getting one each year, let alone 14.

That's just. Yeah, that's crazy. I still remember his name. I'm not gonna say it on the podcast, but it was John Smith. Yeah, Logan, when you hunt during legal hours on legal land or in the right season, it's a lot harder. That's true. When you go to the local children's zoo on the other hand. Like you mean you mean the turkey shoot fundraiser isn't what it sounds like it is?

Not anymore. Yeah, but there's just, there are so many things, there are certain things That you get a lot of gratification doing the job. There's other parts of the job that are not as gratifying. One of the, one of the things that made me wake up one day. Because when you first get hired, I was, you can be very black and [00:18:00] white.

You've got the regulations in front of you. Everybody knows you're supposed to wear an orange hat when you're rabbit hunting in the state of Indiana. Or you should. It's very easy to find. And so I was going down the road one day. And it was a Sunday morning. No, I'm sorry. It was a Saturday morning.

It was early Saturday morning. I looked down from the road. I was patrolling. I looked down and I see four orange hats on little people and a grown man wearing a Cincinnati Reds baseball cap. Okay. Not a Cincinnati Oranges baseball cap. No. No. It's a Cincinnati Reds baseball cap. And he, obviously, he's got, no, I'm sorry, three kids, three kids out there.

And they were all rabbit hunting. And of course, I'm going to stop in and I would have stopped if they were all wearing orange hats just to chat them up and do a license check and let them know I was out working. And there are certain parts of the job that are PR related too. Plus, it was a slow morning.

I wanted to see if they were shooting any rabbits. But so I went through the whole check and he goes, aren't you going to ask me about my Reds hat? And I said, yeah, I am. [00:19:00] And he's, I said what's going on with that? And he said last night, he said I've been promising these kids to bring them rabbit hunting for two weeks.

Because last night I scoured the house and I could come up with three hats and I have one Cincinnati Reds baseball cap. And immediately it transported me to my own house and taking my own kids hunting. And what I would have done in that situation, I would have put the three hats on the kids too. And instead of writing that ticket that day, I thought, this guy's trying to get his kids out of here hunting. What's going to happen if I write him the ticket next week when they say, can we go rabbit hunting? And he's going to say, no way, dude. No. Let's enroll you in the soccer league. I don't get tickets going to this sitting at the soccer league.

That was a good call. Yeah. In my opinion, that's because he was trying to comply and he took the opportunity instead of leaving one of his kids home, he knew the risk. He knew exactly what he was doing and [00:20:00] it just opened my eyes that, that day from, it's not always black and white about what's going on.

And he initiated it with you too. He called out, listen, I know this is not right. And it also, especially since he had kids there that give, kids are very impressionable. Absolutely. And now you're giving a... A good experience with a game warden that these kids are having, instead they remember, Oh yeah, I went hunting with my dad and that game warden wrote him a ticket over his baseball and that's going to sour that kid for the rest of their life.

You got more mileage out of that encounter than probably many other encounters that you had throughout your career. And you're a hundred percent correct. I don't know how it was in Indiana, but in Pennsylvania, when I went through the Academy, we were taught arrest everybody for everything. And that's, that was the mindset back then, let the court sort it out, but your job is if there's a violation, write it.

I never held with that. And to this day, I don't hold with that. I always felt that it was important to cite the big violations. My, I used several criteria. How did that person's actions impact on [00:21:00] the resource? For starters, if he killed more game than he was supposed to, he's getting a ticket, I don't care what he said, but something like that with an orange hat or maybe an unplugged shotgun, you get more mileage out of writing a warning.

You start down this road, when you get hired and you start working these. Incidents where people are shot and you develop in your own mind that, okay, somebody's not wearing orange or getting a ticket because I don't want to work another one of these if you're working boating and they're not wearing a life jacket or they don't have life jackets and you're getting a ticket.

It's a safety violation because I don't want to drag your body out of the river. But you've got to put in the human factor side of it and start thinking about some of that stuff. And you're right. Logan those kids are very impressionable and they, that's what they would have taken away from that.

Nothing else about the day, but my dad was given a ticket for by the game warden. I can tell you another funny one. So we got a call one time. Some highway workers were being shot at [00:22:00] on, on a crossover on us 50. This is a classic. This is such a good story. And so I was the closest one there and I drive out there.

And all these highway workers are huddled down behind a truck and I'm thinking, what the heck's going on? And I stop and I talk to them. They said, the shots are coming from that house. And now I'm asking, what are they shooting at you with? And it's I think it's a BB gun.

I'm like, really? You called me out here for a BB gun. So I go up there and I hit. And I drive up in the driveway and as I'm walking to the front door to pound on the front door, these two little blonde headed kids go streaking out of the back of the house and running into the woods. And I was like, okay, I don't even need to chase you, I know, I even know who their dad was.

Oh, geez. So he was a local UPS driver. And, so I came back later and had those kids write up, both of them, write [00:23:00] up the Ten Commandments of Firearm Safety in an essay and explain what each one meant instead of turning anything to the juvenile. And now that one of those kids is one of my best friends.

That's awesome. That's so cool. Yeah. That is good stuff. Talking about knocking on a door makes me think of another, it was a funny incident. This guy did get a ticket, but anyway, Pennsylvania, we had to we had to pick up road, killed deer that were hit by cars. I don't know that they do that anymore, but back then we did.

Usually they didn't call until a deer started to stink. Or unless it was in plain view. I go to the area where this deer was supposed to be and I can't find it. For whatever reason. So I go to the closest house and I knock on the door and a guy comes to the door and I said, I'm here about the deer thinking that he may be the guy that called this roadkill in, and he just hung his head and he goes, it's in the basement.

I said, you have a roadkill in the basement? He goes, aren't you here about the deer I shot last night? I thought you said beer. I'm sorry, officer. Yeah. He was in the [00:24:00] basement. He whacked a deer the night before and had it hanging in his basement and yeah, so yeah, he got a ticket. Wow. That's what I was like you knew it had to have been weighing on him for him to immediately go right for He literally, he hung his head.

Flushed face. He says, it's in the basement. And I thought, wow, this is crazy. And other time I did the same thing, same scenario, looking for a road, kill deer, knock on the door, somebody yells, come on in. So I opened the door and come in and there's four guys sitting at the kitchen table, smoking marijuana.

I said, you guys need to be very careful about who you tell to come on in. Yeah, no kidding. Oh man. So Alan, with with deer season gearing up and lots of hunters hitting the field, what are we seeing lots of activity with in the listings on Gun Broker? We'd advised you a few episodes ago that if you were looking for a new hunting rifle, it was getting to be that time because we were starting to see an uptick in bold action sales.

Yeah. Sorry, you've blown it. Bolt actions have right now they're in their peak part of the season, so they're moving pretty quickly, pretty heavily.[00:25:00] The prices have followed along with them. If you are waiting to the last minute to grab a hunting rifle, one, why get one sighted in practice for the love of Pete, make good shots.

But on the upside, if you've got that extra hunting rifle sitting around, maybe you've got a new one this year and they ain't got the old one, might not be a bad time to throw it on the market either. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it's funny cause every year people, they wait till the last minute to get the ammo or the rifle, it's like guys, this happens every year, like usually within a couple of days of each one, it's cyclical, but people just can't seem to get it together.

And ammunition is so fickle. We saw this empty shelves. Now they've all been restocked after, pandemics came out, we're seeing some geopolitical things right now that may be changing that. So depending on what calibers you shoot, you might want to get it if you see it and don't certainly run out and load up all of it and hoard it from everybody else.

But I'm having guys telling me they're having a hard time to find black powder right now. Yeah. Reloading supplies have been in short supply for. Since the pandemic, I have a friend of mine would do very sketchy things for some 22 [00:26:00] to 50, forget it. Forget the Klondike bar. He's, he wants, he needs some 22 to 50.

Yeah. All right. In that we've got to wrap up, but the one more thing I, that I do want to mention, we're talking about, it's a bad time to find things, get it while you strike while the iron's hot. Rick and I, we had talked that, as a long rifle maker, he's got a. two plus year waiting list for his guns.

But in 2025 will be his 25th anniversary and he's going to make a rifle and a Fowler and a knife and raffle them off, right? That is correct. Yeah. So that's going to be your way to jump the line for Rick's two year waiting list. So if it works for sheep hunters, it can work for long rifleman too.

That's exactly right. So with that, gentlemen, I appreciate you all sitting around the table. It's been fantastic. Absolutely. Appreciate y'all's dedication to the wildlife and your careers. It's a big deal to all of us. And thank you to everyone who has tuned into the show the audio and the video versions.

We appreciate you joining us every week. Make sure you're subscribed, leave us reviews and comments. We really [00:27:00] appreciate all of it. And we will see you right here next week on the next episode. Of the no low ballers podcast.