Chess Moves For A Big Buck

In this conversation, Dan Johnson and Joe Jones discuss the challenges of balancing work and family with their passion for the outdoors. They also provide an update on Joe's pursuit of a particular buck and his efforts to gain access to a 200-acre property. Joe shares his strategies for patterning the buck and his excitement about the new hunting opportunity. In this conversation, Joe and Dan discuss the behavior and patterns of a mature buck that Joe is hunting. They explore the idea that the buck is not truly nomadic but rather has multiple core areas where he feels safe. They also discuss the buck's sensitivity to human pressure and cameras, and the potential impact of cattle on his movement. Joe shares his plan to hunt the back walls of the property and use mock scrapes to attract the buck. Dan advises Joe to be cautious about sharing information and to consider hanging a tree stand while setting up trail cameras.

Takeaways:

• Finding time for outdoor activities with family can be challenging when balancing work responsibilities.
• Children often develop a love for the outdoors when exposed to it at a young age.
• Patterning a mature buck can be difficult, especially in areas with high hunting pressure.
• Gaining access to private hunting properties requires persistence and building relationships with landowners.
• Having a clear understanding of a buck's core area and movement patterns can increase hunting success. Mature bucks may have multiple core areas where they feel safe.
• Human pressure and cameras can cause bucks to shift their bedding areas.
• Cattle can affect deer movement and behavior.
• Hunting the back walls of a property and using mock scrapes can be effective strategies.
• Be cautious about sharing information to avoid increased hunting pressure.

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Dan Johnson (00:02.168)
What's up everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the nine finger Chronicles podcast. And today I am joined by father of the year. And that has been voted on by me because dude, every time I see you, you're fishing, you're shooting clays, you're doing something with your boys. And I think that's pretty rad,

Joe jones (00:24.27)
Thank you, appreciate it. Trying to raise them up in the outdoors and they have taken a liking to it and they're obsessed just as much as I am.

Dan Johnson (00:33.474)
I tell you what, so this summer has been kind of rough for our family. We, like my wife has to work, I have to work, and there's not a lot of time where I get to go throughout the day and like go do something fun with the kids. It's usually all done after the day is over, you know, like 5, 5 .30, six o 'clock at night.

And then usually after that even is some kind of activity. Now that all those activities are over, we've been able to do some things, but it's tough, man. Especially when you gotta work. Are your kids in daycare right now?

Joe jones (01:16.766)
So we alternated them doing camps every other week in between vacations. And then my mother -in -law has been a godsend and watches them the weeks they're not in camp. it's, my wife works from home, so that's tough for her to deal with.

Dan Johnson (01:31.827)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the same. That's the same thing here, man. It's just like I know right now that downstairs my boy, he's probably on video games or he's watching TV, but it sucks because I didn't want to. I didn't want to front the money for like a babysitter all summer long. It just it really sucks. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so basically I'm letting YouTube or some video game babysit him.

Joe jones (01:52.161)
and they'll do the same thing. They'll put them in front of my screen.

Dan Johnson (02:01.974)
And then throughout the day, I'm, I'm, don't know, I'm trying to, trying to be super dad here and, and maybe have them hit some baseballs into the net or, take them to the library or, you know, have them come. think tomorrow I'm taking my youngest boy to do trail cameras finally. And so, yeah. And so, but I will say this, I am jealous of the amount of time that you spend with what you got two boys and one little girl,

Joe jones (02:20.718)
That

Joe jones (02:31.992)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (02:32.881)
Yeah, yep. So I'm jealous that every time I turn on Instagram, it's like, Jesus, this guy's nonstop with his boys in the outdoors. I love

Joe jones (02:40.5)
Yeah, I think it's just blessing, you think about sports and you know, the outdoors and fishing and you know, how do want to get your kids, know, every dad wants to get their kids doing what they did, whether it's baseball, soccer, but I've just learned to like slowly ease things in and they have just took it and run with it, been force -sitting on them, but it's them dragging me like, dad, let's go fishing.

Like the other week my oldest son got pissed because we didn't get to go fishing because he was like, Dad, we need to go in the morning. I'm like, No, son, we're going in the afternoon. It's going to be too hot. And then it rained. He's like, Dad, I told you we should have gone in the morning. I'm like, you're right.

Dan Johnson (03:20.122)
That's a good thing though. I look at that and I go, these kids want to go fishing. They want to do it. And unfortunately you can't go fishing every day because you got to work. But it just, makes it really sweet when, you know, the kids are wanting to go do some of those things. And in a

You're doing something right at that point. If your kids want to go fishing, they want to go hunting. My youngest boy, he's already this year, he's been like, hey dad, want to go hunting with you this year. I'm like, well. He's six, he turned seven in September. And so I'm not really sure what that's going to look like as far as him trying to sit still in a blind or a tree stand or things like that. But at least I know he's interested. And so.

I don't know. That's kind of a win for

Dan Johnson (04:21.353)
All right. So we got some stuff we need to we need to talk about here, bud. And that is the last time I believe you were on this podcast. We were talking last year. It was probably around this time, maybe even into September. Was that September? Yeah. Last year. And you had a monster on trail camera. Right. And so we we kind of what I'm going to recommend is maybe even

Joe jones (04:39.065)
September, Yeah, September.

Joe jones (04:45.924)
Yep.

Dan Johnson (04:50.622)
hit pause on this episode, go find Joe's last podcast that we did somewhere around September where we talked about a particular buck and that's gonna be like, that's gonna be the beginning, that's part one of this story. And as far as your hunting journey and this particular deer. All right, so the last episode we talked about one particular giant buck who.

was jumping around between all these different properties. You had limited access to where you thought this deer was living and the route, his core area and whatnot. What's the update on that particular buck? When was the last time you had him on camera? Like go through, pick up where we left off last time to where we are right

Joe jones (05:41.931)
Yeah, so I will say this would be my third year of the pursuit of this deer. last year was like my official like, okay, I've kind of figured out where he's coming from. The hunt is on. So last summer it was, holy crap, I've got something special. And I started deploying cameras trying to figure out where he was coming from. Last time we talked, early summer he was coming from the south and then switched up. I think he was hitting a big kudzu patch.

The north west of me so then he started switching up coming specifically north northwest so then I switched up and had my set Northwest and Had to find you know ask for permission for other properties because I only had you know I think around 50 acres to hunt him And then I gained access to another 25 That was northwest. I thought this was this was the spot and

going back to where he was coming south is I was like okay he's coming a lot from south let me see if I can get more property to the south so I picked up another 25 so I have a hundred huntable acres to kind of catch this buck and season cump yeah go

Dan Johnson (06:55.184)
but it wasn't, but I'm gonna interrupt right there for a second. It wasn't like a continuous 100 acres, was it? It was like, yeah, like it was puzzle pieced kind of out separately. Okay, so I'm sorry, continue with

Joe jones (07:02.511)
No, no, was 25 here. Yeah, it's

Joe jones (07:12.719)
So multiple properties, 75 that are close together within a half a mile. Another 25 that's about a mile away down the road south. So season comes in and this is North Carolina. Baiting is legal. So I have a strategy where I to see what's coming in and then hunt off of that on winds. Cause these mature deer are very smart. You can kill them off a corn, but it's better to kind of figure out their access route.

Because they're going to be coming in right at last light If they're come in to feed So I had him pattern a little bit Coming in a hundred. I didn't hunt him hard. I tried to hunt him smart But he never came in until I think the second week of September we talked about I'm at a Fox spook off three sets of deer and I Pretty positive he was with a bachelor group that got scared off. That was the only encounter that I actually kind of

In September and he ghosted between the end of September which I think I coincide with Acorns because I didn't in the the properties in the northwest. So this is why shifts Did not it's in between a lot of neighborhoods Not very many that much forage. I like a lot of green forages, you know, they switched over to you know Acorns so he made a complete 180 and stayed south and I would see him once a month on scrape cameras that I had set up and it

It would be one week gone. Three or four weeks. Yeah, all nocturnal. So all nocturnal. So fast forward and you know, I'm asking permission and trying to just figure out, okay, he's here, he's not there, he's there, he's coming south. So I connected with a property that's small. Don't want to say too much about the property because it can give away where I am. But I asked for permission.

Dan Johnson (08:43.156)
Was that nocturnal? All nocturnal, yeah, okay.

Joe jones (09:09.383)
five acres right against the road and I knew he was coming through there and he was like, there's a hunter. So I actually finally met the hunter and we have been exchanging a lot of information. He's an older gentleman, a really good hunter. He's a woodsman and, but only he's from a different area and he knew, knew of this property through a friend, obviously the property owner. So he hunts there every so often and he, I think he uses a crossbow.

and definitely gun hunts near there. And he had a lot more pictures of him from October through November. He had him daylighting November, I think 16th from the south. Obviously, five acres is such a tiny, tiny piece of the pie, but it just made me think, this is where he ruts, this is his area. He's got a harem of does over there. When I've driven through multiple properties to try to ask for permission on my ridge systems, creek systems,

oaks everywhere like this is where he needs to be. So last year I did not I saw him on camera I think you could say four times from October through December all at night. I took my son out the last day of the season in the same spot where he was because he had he had I think it was our season goes out January 1st so

that December 31st that night he came in to my set and I'm like, son, if he comes out, I'm gonna let you shoot him. He never came out, but I let my son shot and shot a button, but that was his first. That was an assisted shot with calling my five -year -old and had an absolute blast. So then that night the season ended, here he comes popping up. So he showed himself for like three weeks straight, daytime and nighttime. Once the season ended, yep, boom.

Dan Johnson (11:00.308)
once this once the once the season

Joe jones (11:03.635)
like that light switch. it could have been, you know, he sensed my presence or, know, so this deer is, is, he's very smart. He's peculiar and he's weird. He can't be patterned. I just think with the neighborhoods. So this is kind of a suburban urban setting. he's got these really big houses on 15, 25 acres, some houses with five and 10, but so I've got a lot of woods to play with, but I believe this deer is

He's a nomad and I can't pattern him and when I'm door knocking I'm finding more hunters and more hunters. So I think he's very aware that he's being hunted and he is not going to stay in one spot. So it led me to believe how can I figure out where he is going to stay and where he's safe. And it is south and it is between

a I don't want to say because it's going to get away the area so it's an area where he cannot be hunted and so I thought how could I get to him and I eyed this property for almost two years and just thought there's no way so it's at least 200 acres and it's pieced up by different family members so I'm like there's no way there's probably already a hunter it's it's just there's cow pastures there's ponds

There's pine crickets, there's oaks. Clearly someone hunts it. So I just kind of was like, got to ask, yo. The only thing about asking is you're to get to know what's going to hurt. that's last year, I boosted my confidence and door knocked and got, you know, three, four additional properties and got it, got my mojo going. I kind of have a spiel that I did. So I know if you want to pause, but so I focused in getting this 200 acres this summer.

And I can talk into that if you have any other questions. It's an interesting story.

Dan Johnson (13:01.232)
Yeah. Okay, so I definitely want to get into that. But before that, okay, before you gained access, because eventually you're going to tell me the story of how you gained access to it. But what I want to know is before that, did you ever lay a map out and just put dots on that map or and take a not a very micro look

the area but a macro look at it and just look at, okay, there's a dot here, dot here, dot here, dot here, dot here, and put together like a hypothetical core area for this buck.

Joe jones (13:41.213)
Yeah. Yep.

Dan Johnson (13:42.457)
And was it tight or was it huge?

Joe jones (13:45.455)
It's, it's, it's because there's so many hunters, there's no way either they're terrible hunters or there's.

He should he should have been dead within the last two years. He should have been where he is Where he's coming from he is flanked by hunters like I There is this one another family that owns almost another 200 acres that I had asked five years ago Two distinct names and they said, know, hunt and then I just asked last week to a closer property where And there's another story that you know my barber

So it's my barber's land that I've kind of branched out and found other properties that kind of ding ding of, he's back, he's alive. Cause I hadn't had pictures of them in my Northwest properties the entire year at all. So I have, I've done that map thing. I've looked at, you know, I've had you help me. I've had a lot of friends look at top of maps and they pinpointed and I'm like, this makes sense where he is. And he's, it's not that he's untouchable. He knows where to be.

Dan Johnson (14:37.623)
Yeah.

Joe jones (14:52.627)
During the daylight where he can't be hunted and certain properties that either don't allow hunting or that we've I've asked that are like Anti not anti hunting but just don't want people hunting their

Dan Johnson (15:04.629)
Right. Okay. So with that said, do you have you ever had a scenario where you caught him on camera, two different trail cameras, or maybe a sighting in a trail camera on the same day that would allow you to, that would show the direction he is moving. Okay. All right. All right. And, and did that help you out at all? Or was it still nocturnal image?

Joe jones (15:26.491)
Yes.

Joe jones (15:34.931)
I'm still nocturnal. it was during the summer, was during the summer I had him pattern like his direction and then he just 180 once I believe Acorns dropped the end of September and he went across through it and I got less Intel but I had cameras catching him coming in and going and I had him dead to right and then he just he did a 180 flip and switched over. So pretty much I had his summer range and his rut range or pre -rut range he switched over to the south.

Dan Johnson (15:56.349)
Okay. Okay.

Dan Johnson (16:04.894)
Alright, right now you're probably, are you getting pictures of this buck?

Joe jones (16:09.821)
So, me talk to you about that. So. So.

Dan Johnson (16:13.03)
Okay.

Joe jones (16:20.381)
So I have a barber that owns.

acres south and 30 plus acres north and then a lot of my properties that I hunt around there are northwest so cameras out in his area from since February didn't get a single picture a single picture so my mind is racing my guts like is he dead did he get hit did he get poached because this is a big deer for North Carolina so you know when we don't see pictures of bucks

We think the worst. it's like, what the hell happened to him? So I'm in the barber shop and I'm getting my haircut and his wife goes, man, I hate that my neighbors feeding the deer because they're, you know, they're getting hit and everything. So my ears perk up. she's, I'm like, so I started asking a lot of open ended questions like, so is she, is she, is she a hunter? Does she, she just wants to feed the deer. So kind of an animal lover and she only has like half an acreage right against the road.

Dan Johnson (16:56.368)
Yeah. Yep.

Joe jones (17:24.445)
So they're a little upset that they're feeding this deer right by the road because people are, maybe they hit about three or four deer. But then, so I go to my bar, was like, are you seeing any big bucks? And he's a rabbit hunter, but he doesn't really deer hunt. So he says he's seeing some big bucks. So big to some people could be an eight pointer or a basket six. So I was like, would you let me put a camera, you know, in your yard? He's like, yeah, I know exactly where you should put it. Put it on my shed

So you've got this main road, two -lane highway, not two -lane way, two ways, one way, this way, and then a gravel road and it splits off. And he's kind of riding against the road. So he told me to point it right here. So I check it two weeks later and I'm clicking and clicking and clicking and boom. I see his tines. I can't see his width, but I'm like, that's, so one single picture, 11 o 'clock at night.

So then I started littering more cameras and I haven't caught him again in that same area. So it just leads to it. It makes me believe he's gotten smarter and he's becoming nomadic, but I do know his general corridor area now. So that led me to believe I need to ask South. So, back to the property I've been looking at for two years and just thinking there's no way I'll be able to get it. It's impossible. Someone hunts it or I don't even know how to get to these people.

Dan Johnson (18:48.897)
Yeah.

Joe jones (18:50.131)
I was able to cross reference a friend and get very detailed property ownership information, which was about 15 minutes away. So I go to this property in a fluid neighborhood and I'm just like, crap, what am I getting myself into? So I get there, knock on the door, bring the door with a nothing. And then there were some landscapers. I was like, hey, are they home? And they're like, yeah, they're home.

So then I knocked one more time and I think they were upstairs. I didn't hear the doorbell and I left. Left. And then I'm like, I got to stick with this. So I think another two weeks went by and I went back again. So second time, went back again. Door knocked, doorbell, doorbell, nothing there. So I'm like, crap, maybe they're just like, who is this guys? This is the salesman on my aunt's door.

So then I was like, forget about it. And then I was like, no, Joe, just go back to it. Just be persistent. The only thing you're going to get is a no. So third time is a charm. I knock on the door, wife comes out and I do my spiel. I'm nervous as crap. And she was like, yeah, we have hunters out there. They have a hundred in a while, but come on in. So she brings me in. Like it was just like, wow, this is weird. I've never had someone invite me in their house, sit down and she literally.

draws a map of her property. it's a family owned property. And she goes, my brother is really the owner of everything and everything has to go through him. So here's his contact number. Here's his house, which was on the property. I didn't realize, cause I didn't think, I didn't know if it was a renter's property. So it was a really long drive. It like a mile long, half long drive. So I didn't want to go in there and be like, come in and out. So,

Dan Johnson (20:22.834)
Yep.

Joe jones (20:38.065)
The sister of the property owner of the brother drew me a map, gave me his number. So I leave, thank her. In the back of my mind she said there used to be hunters where they leased it. So I'm like, crap, it could be spoken for. So I call him immediately, just kidding, call him immediately, leave a voicemail. I get no call back for a week. Then I call him again. Didn't get anything, so I'm just

Joe, got nothing lose, just go over to the house. So I picked myself up by my bootstraps, went on that long driveway.

really nice house, they're renovating, couple cars in the driveway and I park and they can already see me. I'm about to knock and he comes out and I'm just like, just do my spiel, tell him that I talked to his sister and just say, hey, what are you, are you allowing any bow hunters? He was like, I used to lease it. There are a few hunters that have hunted it in the past. My neighbor hunts it here and there out of the tower blinds that they have set up in the fields.

And he's like, yeah, I'll let you hunt it. And I just was like ecstatic. So I had like 200 acres with maybe one or two guys that maybe don't know what they're doing, because if they did know what they're doing, this deer should be dead in my mind. Or this deer is just incredibly smart. So this should be his rut area, these 200 acres. A lot of it is cow pasture. So I would say about 75 acres of the 200 is very huntable.

I've got two cameras deployed. I did half -ass putting them out.

Joe jones (22:23.709)
My days off are typically Thursday and I weekend rotations off. work in retail. So it's, it's kind of hard just like you with having kids to either do something with your kids or do something in the woods. So a lot of the things like I do in the woods checking cameras is like right before work or in between, like if I have a late shift today is going to do that real quick. So I have like an hour window, to kind of check these cameras. So I really need a whole day to walk this. I haven't walked the entire property.

I haven't looked for sheds and I just really haven't devoted time, but I'm about to. I did go out to put two cameras with my daughter, but that only lasted 30 minutes before she was like that. I mean, she's two and half years old. So I had about an hour to kind of just kind of set cameras up and didn't get anything of him, but I didn't go deep enough. So I am just, I'm getting pretty jacked up about

Dan Johnson (23:12.288)
Yeah, okay. So first question this 200 that you picked up how far Away is this 200 acres from where this story all

Joe jones (23:26.099)
shoot, I got it in the hunt stand up right now. It's probably.

Dan Johnson (23:35.228)
Half a mile, okay. Definitely doable for this buck. And you said nomadic.

Joe jones (23:36.19)
Half a mile, yep.

Dan Johnson (23:44.849)
I think there's a better word that we can use to describe this buck. And well, mean, mature, this is great, just hear me out once. This word popped into my head and nomadic, like a nomad means you kind of go where there's no core area. My gut tells me this buck has core areas, but he makes his decisions.

Joe jones (23:49.361)
A mature buck? Yeah.

Joe jones (24:10.513)
He does.

Dan Johnson (24:14.32)
Binary basically yes or no like yes or no should I cross this road? No, I'm going over here. I feel pressure I'm out so every time he feels pressure He's popping two different areas within this this core core area and so my gut tells me that he there's definitely a place because if he was truly nomadic I feel like he would be gone and you would never see him again,

Like I feel like you're seeing him, right? You have you have verification that he is still in this area and maybe his core area is just bigger and he's got a lot of beds within this core area like where he feels safe. You know, like that little half acre woodlot you were talking about where he could just be sitting, you know, 50 yards off a road where no one can see him and he has a perfect view and the sense in the right spot.

I would say that this buck reminds me a lot of deer where I hunt, where there's no specific bed. Like a lot, hear these guys talk about like, found this buck's bed. Well, how do you know you found, how do you know that? Yeah, how do you know it's this buck's bed? You don't know that, right? Unless you have a trail camera over that bed and you have them coming back to it multiple times in a row, every single wind direction,

Joe jones (25:27.803)
Yeah. How do you?

Joe jones (25:42.931)
to have multiple

Dan Johnson (25:43.065)
Every single pressure scenario where he could get bumped off that 200 acres and now he's going to that 25 acres. Or he could get bumped out of that 25 acres and now he's bedding on this five acres. And he's going wherever he feels comfortable at that particular moment. You know what I mean? But that doesn't mean that he's outside of his quote unquote core area. Does that make sense?

Joe jones (26:01.159)
Yep. Yeah.

Joe jones (26:07.373)
area. Yeah. Yeah, and that was definitely a broad term to say nomadic because it when I'm putting all these puzzle pieces together of why is he not consistent? It is because of that. I think there are outside factors other than than 100s. There was a moment between that September to October transition of him being in a summer core area.

There was a time, don't know if I sent it to you, coyotes came through and three coyotes came through and I had them on camera and he just boom, gone. And I did not see him for a whole month since that. they actually had it on camera. had him attacking a young buck and I got the whole, like, I think I was just like obsessing over this deer and woke up at like one eight or no, it was like three or four AM and was checking my camera. And I'm like, holy crap, I'm witnessing this live. So I started.

Dan Johnson (26:44.308)
Yep.

Joe jones (27:04.039)
clicking on it was a, I had an Exodus camera. So I was hitting the, the video mode and I caught them like literally attacking this deer's, know, haunches and getting his, you know, his, his tendon. So, but since that happened, I think, you know, that caused him to also move out of the area that I had in pattern. And then you've got hunters. There's corn pals. So I've counted six hunters within a mile.

So you know there's corn piles littered everywhere. So that's also playing a party. There's human pressure there. So you're saying exactly what I'm thinking is this deer is on his toes. He's got multiple bedding areas and he's shifting based off of pressure and just outside circumstances that I don't see or know specifically. Yeah, yeah, on the daily, on the daily.

Dan Johnson (27:51.27)
Yeah, on the daily probably. Yeah, on the daily. Yeah. And so, and then on top of that, I'm guessing this buck is extremely nocturnal. So I'm just envisioning, I'm putting the puzzles, the pieces together here based off of what he's extremely nocturnal. He's extremely jumpy where he probably doesn't take any type of shit, right? I don't

Joe jones (28:16.453)
And I think he's camera like I think he's really camera shy. So I've got to think about using sticks, my lone wolf custom, you know, pier sticks and just put that up two sticks and cause he, he will look at those cameras. I had a cheap Pasco camera in the summer on video mode and he jumped out of his skin when he saw that light and he did not go by that area. So this deer is very aware of cameras. There's been a lot of talks. I don't know if you talk about how they

Dan Johnson (28:26.809)
Yep.

Joe jones (28:46.667)
Listen to multiple podcasts about These cell cameras could be something that these deer mature deer are picking up on I don't know if it's you know what it frequency is given off that some of these mature deer are keening in on that and like nope Not going in that and that going in front of that camera or they know where to go by and not Because they can sense it in my mind they can sense it So I could be dealing with the deer that is is its camera sensitive as well, which is throwing another

Dan Johnson (29:12.781)
Yeah yeah absolutely and here's the deal like whoa

Joe jones (29:21.521)
Ooh, that's a big storm. That's a big storm.

Dan Johnson (29:22.463)
I'm sorry. lightning just struck right outside my house. I know. I know. OK. So as far as this this buck is concerned. So you're not just dealing with a normal buck at this point. You're dealing with number one a mature buck but a mature buck who is extremely jumpy and a mature buck who has

Joe jones (29:28.827)
That was loud, I picked that up. Like shook the house, I felt like I was in there.

Dan Johnson (29:51.964)
unpredictable range. Right. All right. We've kind of

Joe jones (29:57.779)
in in neighborhoods where he knows he is 100 % safe where neighbors just come out and look at him and he knows okay that's that's

Dan Johnson (30:06.314)
Yep, exactly. And so it might be worth hunting this buck while you are pushing your boys in a swing set in one of these backyards. You know what I mean? Like these deer for some reason, and I talked with a guy about this yesterday about the difference between mule deer and whitetails out west. Where like some of these deer,

Joe jones (30:16.583)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (30:30.612)
They'll sit and they will watch you if you're moving, if you're making noise, but the second you slow down and start creeping towards them, they're out. Yeah, and so they're like, okay, this is now a threat. So I don't know if any of these urban hunters that you hear a lot about, if they're taking that into some kind of a tactic where they're loud. They're just being loud and then they're going up a tree and they're sitting there.

Joe jones (30:38.589)
switch it's the light switch

Dan Johnson (30:59.037)
and then they kind of just quiet down and let everything pass and then the deer are like, okay, well they went inside and then, like I don't know, I've never hunted urban deer.

Joe jones (31:08.465)
Yeah, so I've taken, I've taken a lot of the playbook from Seek One. People might not be a fan, but these guys have been able to prove they're able to do it in a suburban scenario and, you know, these bigger, you know, Kansas and these other areas. But I've heard their podcasts and they've acted like their neighbors and slipped in these stands. And they've talked about how they, it's something that a deer can sense. It's either your intent.

that they can sense, as soon as you put that camera on or you step in their domain, it's like, I know what you are. But as soon as you do neighbor activities, they will, you know, these, you know, 180 inch deer, they'll, talk about where it's, can be doing a leaf blower and he's just going to watch me all day. And I think one of them might've done that. They've done leaf blower or had someone do it while they were climbing up in his stand. So there might be something that I have to kind of think about.

But I'm not really in those scenarios where I'll be hunting in someone's backyard. Because of where I saw him, there's like at least 10 houses on half acre plots. That'll be pretty much impossible. But it is something that I've thought about. Like how do

figure it out, how do I, I'm I'm gonna use this 200 acre piece, I'm not gonna bait at all. And I've actually connected with, know, Chory Pottinger and I've listened to a lot of podcast with you and him about mock scrapes. So I've, I'm gonna kind of delve into the mock scrape world of, it's try to do minimal sentence, human sentence possible work gloves and do these mock scrapes mock scrapes and just see if I can catch him and just, you know, hunt him

and forget the bait throw it out the window and just kind of keep this spot for a know a pre -rut October area because I'm just going to stay out and litter cameras and just kind of catch him because that's all I've got at this point he's either luck hunting him closer to where I normally have seen him which is going to be very slim to none because of how much he's pressured or I can just hunt him woodsman way

Joe jones (33:18.899)
and hopefully catching there. think that's what I'm with this 200 acres is what I'm going to

Dan Johnson (33:23.585)
Okay, 200 acres. I want to elaborate on this a little bit. So you already mentioned mock scrapes. You mentioned that of this 200 acres, about 75 are actual woods and huntable. The rest is like, is it active cattle pasture? Okay, active, which I'll tell you what, Last year, I thought there was no deer on.

Joe jones (33:35.059)
25 to 100.

Joe jones (33:42.574)
Yes, I think that'll be it.

Dan Johnson (33:52.51)
my main property that I've hunted for like 15 plus years now. But guess what? They introduced cattle into this environment. So all the deer, the deer were still there, but they were just skirting around. And so my trail cameras weren't showing a lot of deer movement. However, the trail camera that I had in the river bottom that was outside of the cattle pasture blew up this year, right? And so I think if you play your cards right, you can probably take advantage

of those cattle, maybe either as an access route or at least knowing that the deer are not gonna be hanging out with the cattle, like, skirting corners, yeah. that's, you know, basically it's just a big obstacle because I'll tell you this, here's my experience. I don't know what yours is, but deer avoid cattle, but they're very comfortable with horses.

Joe jones (34:30.845)
Straight in the corners, Yeah, back wall hunting.

Dan Johnson (34:49.597)
And so like I've watched deer walk through about 10, 12 horses. I mean, walk right through the middle of them. No problem. But the second cattle are involved, they're not going to walk do that. They are walking as far away from these cattle as possible to get to their destination. So my gut tells me you're going to be able to take advantage of these active cattle pastures from an access standpoint.

Joe jones (35:05.105)
around

Joe jones (35:17.467)
Yeah, yeah, that's why you know, I'm about to litter it with another we got two cameras are gonna litter it with another five and It's just I've got to be able to decide dissect the I'm gonna get boots on the ground obviously My time is kind of it's crunch time now and get that get those boots to ground and try to eliminate You know human pressure and just sit and watch so that's that is my plan is just to litter the area with cameras stay out and just

I have a family that hunt the back walls of this property because of where it is I'm not gonna give it away because you know where I'm hunting if you listen on the podcast you can kind of figure it out you could figure it out if you were in the area, but there's a predominant land feature that he can't be hunted and I've got to hunt the back wall that because I know that's where he feels safe, and it's I'm talking I'm I am the back door of this this prominent land piece

There's no hunting whatsoever. So I think if I play my cards right, be safe. Hunt these back walls of this property. I'm going to be in

Dan Johnson (36:24.845)
Yeah. The other thing that I would do and I would stop talking with your friends and you know, I'm not joking, man. You know, like I'm serious. Like we've had this conversation. That's great. You know, we've been very vague in the location of where this is, where you're hunting. But I would go dark with all your information. If you get pictures of this deer, I wouldn't share them with friends.

Joe jones (36:33.159)
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Joe jones (36:53.777)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (36:54.102)
You know, and I mean that because because in conversation somebody in that area, one of your buddies or landowners or whatever, you know, maybe share it with a landowner if they ask because I wouldn't want to lie to them. But if if there's if you know, one guy goes, yeah, hey, dude, this guy, this guy says he's seen a big buck in the area. And then what happens is now you have another guy who knows and maybe that guy knows a landowner that you don't have access

And he's like, Hey man, mind if I, yeah, sure. Go hunt. And then he now has a shot at this deer. So in the past, man, I've had, I have had conversations with local people that I know from my hometown where I have had, where I have seen, seen big deer and there has been an uptick in pressure on either surrounding farms or people who have had access to that farm in the past who have started hunting it again. And, and now.

You know, maybe I'll post a preseason picture of a giant, but if it's a true giant, like I'm

Joe jones (37:57.563)
Yeah.

He's dead. He's either... If you're posting a picture, he's... he better be dead.

Dan Johnson (38:04.202)
He's either dead or Yeah, or or I I know I don't have a chance at him, right? But these other deer who are on the properties that I hunt man You people know people know

Joe jones (38:18.151)
There's a similar instance going on right now on public and it's because of what you're talking

Dan Johnson (38:27.324)
Yeah, yep. And you start sharing that information and it's great. Like I'm all for helping friends out or trying to get, the pieces of the puzzle together. But you start talking about things like this openly and there will be more pressure on properties. Because you start talking about this and the landowner finds out and then his buddy is like, well, the guys who are hunting those tower blinds may have a younger son, let's say.

Joe jones (38:56.049)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (38:56.399)
who's very, who's active, who can go do it, and then he's gonna now have permission to be that. Next thing you know, you're not hunting that property. I don't know, man. I would just be very careful of how you communicate this because you're right, this is a great deer for any state, really. And so, I just hope, I just hope all of that pans out,

Joe jones (39:20.453)
Yeah, I'm pretty excited.

Dan Johnson (39:22.127)
Yeah, okay, so this boots on the ground that you're gonna be doing here, putting up trail cameras, while you're in there, are you going to be looking at terrain features and trying to get tree stands put up on this property while you're in there hanging trail cameras as

Joe jones (39:43.603)
I think I'm just gonna run and gun like I would like to I just don't want to Booger him out and and you know if you're putting up sticks I've had deer people put cameras on their stands and had deer sniff them. I'm just gonna Run and gun with my lone wolf custom gear set up and just set up and go and then take it down Obviously would be better to have kind of multiple vantage points and set

I am going to make pins for areas, but I don't think I'm going to put in stands just to try to keep my pressure as minimal as possible because this deer is very aware of how people hunt him. I'm pretty sure he knows what a deer stand or tower looks like, so I'm going to try to not do that.

Dan Johnson (40:30.976)
Yeah, yeah, I can see I can see why you would just like first time in best time in type scenario But I'm thinking like if you're going in and you're gonna hang trail cameras Why not why not hang a cup like at least one in the best possible spot? And if you're worried about the sense on scent honest, and I'm just thinking out loud at this point if you're worried about scent or jumping this buck then You know be loud

Joe jones (40:37.851)
Yes, exactly.

Yeah. Hang sets. Why not hang?

Dan Johnson (41:00.852)
Walk in the timber loud. Maybe if you can, drive your truck right up to the field edge and leave it running. That's something that I do. But anyway, get a tree stand up, take down the bottom two sticks. Right? So I don't know, man. Or it could be a scenario where you walk in there, you jump him, and you never see him again because he's like, okay, now I'm living on this place where I can't hunt full

Joe jones (41:00.925)
The time is now.

Joe jones (41:16.403)
Smart. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (41:30.682)
And so I don't know, it's something that you have to listen to your own gut on, you know what I mean? And so, and who knows, dude? Like there's also been times where I've went into an area to hang a trail camera in a tree stand to try to get an idea of where a specific buck, I bumped him or I felt like I bumped him and then he went back into the main property and I saw him on the hoof or

Actually in 2016 I believe I bumped a buck going to hang a trail camera He looped all the way around the farm and I killed him two days later on Coming out. Yeah at this end of this finger. And so I don't know man. It's Man, I've just I'm sending you good vibes because I know that you're working hard for this one particular

Joe jones (42:08.733)
soft plump.

Joe jones (42:22.427)
Go. Keying in. to be calm as possible, least pressure as possible, and just watch and see what's going happen.

Dan Johnson (42:31.141)
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Mr. Jones, man, I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to hop on and kind of fill us in on this particular deer. Like I got when you when you shared with me that information last month or something that you picked up that this additional property, something in my gut just went, dude, he's going to kill this buck. Like he's going to get the job done. And so I hope I hope this all plays out, man.

Joe jones (42:59.803)
Me too, absolutely me

Dan Johnson (43:02.031)
All right dude, hey thank you very much for taking time out of your day and I appreciate ya.

Joe jones (43:07.239)
Alright, thank you man.

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