Find it Fred

Tony Hill with Find it Fred joins Michigan Wild this week. In this episode Nate and Tony get into some hound talk, which includes chasing bears and tracking whitetails. Tony grew up in a family of hunters and was always outdoors at a young age. He tagged along with his older brothers and dad chasing rabbits with his beagles and whitetails up north at their deer camp. About 5 years ago Tony decided to get into deer tracking and then soon after he got more hounds for chasing bears, coons, and coyotes.  

Through this episode the guys cover hunting bears with Tony's dogs and all the dedication it takes to have a successful pack. It's a challenge Tony loves and the reward of seeing a bear in a tree and his dog's work is worth the effort. Nate and Tony finish the podcast talking about deer tracking with his hound Fred. Nate has first hand experience seeing Fred work and really appreciates having Tony as a reliable resource to help recover deer. 

Overall a great episode between buddies who both have a passion for whitetails and watching their dogs work in the field.

Check out the Sportsmen's Empire Podcast Network for more relevant outdoor content!

Nate Rozeveld: Alright, welcome to another episode of Michigan Wild. I have my good friend Tony Hill finally in studio. What's up

Tony Hill: dude? Nothing much, just excited for tracking's been... We're close. It's been slow lately it always is. We'll... Everybody gets out in the woods the first week or two and it's really busy, and then everybody's gotta go back to work or the weather changes and then it slows down.

And like as soon as that cold front hits next week, yeah, you get busy,

Nate Rozeveld: things are gonna go crazy. So how long, so yeah, obviously people who've listened to the last few weeks of my episodes, they know who Tony is because I've name dropped you about tracking deer and you helped me track a buck that I hit last week and we did that.

So if you didn't, If you haven't listened to that episode, I think it was last seven days, week two. I go into the deer that I ended up hitting and Tony helped me out. But you have a tracking [00:02:00] dog, right? Yeah,

Tony Hill: he's blue tick plot mix. He's out he's all just Facebook dog that I got bottom for a hundred bucks.

Nate Rozeveld: Oh, you didn't spend 1, 500 on this special tracking

Tony Hill: dog. He's a hundred dollar Facebook. He was out of some guys, bear dogs from up in Boyne. And then I just. Started basically from scratch. I had a bunch of guys help reach out and help me. And now this is my, this will be my fifth year tracking.

Nate Rozeveld: Cause you tracked that deer here in 2020 for me.

And that was Fred's second year or yeah. Second year, I think when you helped with that and that absolutely sold me on tracking dogs. That was the first time I saw like we, you helped track a deer for my brother in law the year before. And that was a high shoulder shot. We ended up running up to that deer.

But I remember then I was like, this is pretty crazy. This dog just blew through what took me and AJ and my family, like two hours to figure out he did in 10 [00:03:00] minutes. And then we continue to track the neck. This is the next day. And you just, that dog just blew through it. No problem. We ended up catching the, up to the deer and jumped on a bed and sure enough, confirmed it was that deer.

I thought it was him running away. And I go over to where he's bedded and there's just like the littlest of blood, and you, even then I remember you being like, yeah, this is a high shoulder shot deer. Like you just, you sent pictures to buddies and that kind of stuff. And they all confirmed it. So that was like enlightening.

And then fast forward the next year, I shoot a deer and I thought it was a good hit, but you were like, Hey, if you get an early season deer. Let's just, let's track it. So I shot the deer, got out of my tree, waited for you. We went and tracked and found that deer in three minutes. It was so awesome.

I was like, I can't even find blood that fast. And the dog finds it. So typically, even when you think it's a good shot, there's certain circumstances where a dog is just super helpful. And now fast forward to 2023, you have that many more years of tracking and experience. You're just like, you're a very good resource, for me and my buddies.

It's been nice.

Tony Hill: It's, that's, if you're looking to get started[00:04:00] with a tracking dog, that's, you have to reach out to your friends, you have to find your friends, and you have to get your dog on Dead Deer. That three minute track is worth more than any training you're going to do. It's real live deer, real live track.

And me now, I almost get spoiled. I don't even, I miss tracking deer, like visually just looking for blood and doing all this, cause I can go grab Fred and it'll take him two minutes to find a deer that's gone 150 yards or 200 yards. But so I do miss that. Like the whole camp aspect of getting everybody, the lanterns and the flashback of like when we were younger, everybody.

Yeah, 10 guys on the trail now it's Oh, we got to stay off the trail. Don't step on everything. So it's, I do miss that a little bit, but the it's definitely you have, it's putting the work.

Nate Rozeveld: Yeah, the work, so yeah, we missed those times, but there was a lot of like deer, I know when we would [00:05:00] all get back to the house especially up North, if you shot a deer and didn't see it fall down, you would go back to the house, change your clothes, eat dinner, wait for everyone and then we'd all go out looking for the deer.

And we, we pushed so many deer cause they were like a liver shot or a high shot, or we don't know. We didn't know. We had no, we just follow the blood. And I'm guarantee you, if we would've used a tracking dog back then, I would almost say 75 percent of the deer we didn't find, we probably would have found because I think a lot of deer, we just pushed to the next County essentially, and then lose them through a swamp or lose them in a cornfield because, sometimes they die, but they don't bleed very much, which you've had lots of experience of finding deer like that. So dragon dog is pretty, it's pretty crazy, but there is nothing better than going out with a group of your buddies and find even when we did that, when we found deer, me and you, that was such a cool experience.

Cause you're with your buddy. You're like, yeah, you're pumped and all that stuff. But we pushed a lot.

Tony Hill: I've gotten to the point now where like having tracked so many deer that I've been able to be like. I'll get so [00:06:00] many phone calls from hundreds of people just asking for advice or things like that.

And the main thing I say is if you think you got shot, you think you'll ever shot it, give it 12 hours minimum. Overnight, usually, and most of the time I tracked a lot of the deer I track for like friends and family. Now that I tell I give them this advice and I'm like, Hey, just wait till morning.

Even if it's questionable, just wait till morning. Or wait till tonight and we'll see and we'll go. And nine times out of ten, if it is in fact a true gut or liver shot deer, they're usually dead within 200 yards. Yeah, crazy. 200 yards, give or take, 100 yards, but usually they die in their first bed.

And it's just a game changer. It makes it so much easier when people just, when you listen and say, hey don't go out there. It'll be dead in the first bed if you just wait And I think that like you said back before when we had zero idea. We just go out there [00:07:00] Oh this is what it looks like you jump it and then you don't recognize the bed You don't recognize the blood you don't recognize the things on the arrow the particles on the arrow and then You're just pushing deer and then it's on your neighbor's property or it's on,

Nate Rozeveld: yeah, then there's a crossing lines, like all that stuff.

And so that's I think social media has really helped with that because like now you have this network of trackers that you, everyone's been sending pictures and Hey, take a picture of the arrow, take a picture of the blood. And then you have all this like data that I'm sure a lot of guys back when we were younger knew a lot of these things, but majority of us hunters had no idea cause sometimes you can be, you can shoot deer in the liver, like straight up liver shot and you have great blood for a while. It looks like a great blood trail and then it just is gone. But now we know, like you said, you expect arrow a little bit more, you look at the type of blood, like there's so many pictures and videos on that, that I think it just helps us hunters a lot.

I think it is doing a really good thing for the deer, and. To come back to what we had happened last week. Yeah. I had video of hitting the deer and we couldn't [00:08:00] really tell exactly what happened. We had our assumptions. We're like it's possible there was a deflection, but we didn't know if the deflection happened in the body or if it happened after it passed through, we weren't sure.

So I was like, okay, like we're going to blow up my best area. Like we're going to just blow it up because this deer could be dead. And to me, it's we went in with me, you and Henry, and then a dog walked all over the place, did those circles and stuff. And. The next day I had deer in the cameras, like nothing ever happened because I think there's something to be said, having a dog out there with you, just walking around, being a person opposed to a caravan of humans, in the middle of the night, bumbling around and, grid searching this huge wide swath and like trying really hard.

What we did with that dog would have taken us, if we didn't have a dog, would have taken us four times as long to cover, so there's something to be said about cause that was, used to be the thing, like we would shoot a deer and it was like, oh man, it went into this one spot and not like necessarily saying we gave up early because, but it was like, man, we're not going into that [00:09:00] because if that deer's in there, like we ain't finding it, especially if there's no blood to go, like you're going into water that's over your knees or up to your waist, all these other circumstances, if you just didn't have blood, you just didn't even Progress, now the dog doesn't need blood, per se, which I think a lot of people know, like it goes by, the scent trail is different and disturbance or the glands and all this stuff.

So it's just a much more effective tool and a good tool to

Tony Hill: use. And the thing I told guys is it's much easier for me, you and the dog to go into say, like we did your bedding area or around your bedding area, there's three of us, I'm going to be in and out. typically less than an hour. Yeah, if we don't find that deer in an hour, there's a real good chance he's not dead.

So it's way less than like you getting four or five of your buddies grid searching the entire area and then blowing out the entire thing all day. Cause it's going to take you all day. Compared to what we circled downwind, made sure that. Anything that we could check, [00:10:00] we, we got with the dog and with us and I get so many pictures from guys, especially during the rut.

If this, if the deer is like a homebody deer, like it's a deer from July to November, you have a neutral cams. There's a really good chance. Even if you jump it up and pursue it for a while with the dog that. It's going to be back on camera and we had

Nate Rozeveld: that, my deer was back on camera guys. Like I haven't said that yet, but like the deer I hit was in that same food plot.

It hit seven days later in daylight and you could see the spines back and like you called it, like you knew Hey dude, like if you hit that deer, it wasn't much like just from going, it had rained and stuff, but the way Fred, I think really confirmed it for you is how Fred acted. He never, you read your dog, but yeah, we did all that.

Seven days later, that buck's packing the food plot in daylight. So if you would have asked me if I would have I'm a believer just from like now, because the not you're not right every time, but you have a very good data. It's

Tony Hill: an educated guess. [00:11:00] And that's what I try to tell guys am I right all the time?

No. Is any tracker right all the time? No. Do we leave dead deer in the woods? Yes. But based on my experiment experience and the things I've seen with arrows, with blood, with other things, like I tried to give them. My best guess on what I think happened. Yeah,

Nate Rozeveld: because you've been tracking for Five years and the amount of tracks you've been on if you didn't do this It would take you over a lifetime with you and your family to do that many tracks so you just have gained so much experience and it's such a valuable tool and Like you've told me before hunters are usually wrong like the adrenaline rush like you think something happened brain fog Yes, exactly And I had a little bit of that like I was like I never telling you Like you really asked me what I thought I was like, okay, it was broadside.

If you cut the deer in half vertically, cut the deer in half horizontally, I hit right there. Like I center punched him like not good. And you're like, okay, calm down. What did the deer do after you hit them? And you, I told you, I could tell you're like, man, that doesn't seem right. For [00:12:00] him to run away like he did if that's where you hit him.

So then I come home and thankfully I had it videoed and I'm like watching the video and I was like, yeah, I was off. I it was another eight inches to the left and like way high, but like in the heat of the moment, like it looked like a center punch. They move so fast, so quick, like you can't see everything.

So you deal with a lot of that, but yeah, you've, it's a great, it's a great experience. But so like, how long have you, so you've been tracking for five years. Like you've always can I give us a little backstory? Like how long you've been a hunter for?

Tony Hill: So since I could probably walk, I have, so I have three older brothers, my dad, we've been hunting since my dad could take me.

Since I could follow along. Do

Nate Rozeveld: little, like you're like how Henry is for me. That was you.

Tony Hill: Yeah. So I've been. I've been deer hunting since I think they changed it My so 10 or 12. So I think when I turned 12, they allowed gun hunting. So I think I started gun hunting when I was 12 and then bow hunting and just [00:13:00] Obsessed always since the beginning.

I've just always been obsessed with it. It's all I can think of It's all I do if you ask my wife now, it's a new thing every month Yeah,

Nate Rozeveld: yeah, so But that not only deer hunting, you've always had

Tony Hill: dogs too. Yeah. I've always had dogs since, since, there's pictures of me like two, three, four years old, my dad.

Beagles. Beagles. We always had beagles. I got my first beagle when I was 10. We had three or four. And then trooper, Maggie and Cassie, Nick, my brother, Nick got a beagle and then she had puppies and we kept a lot of them. My mom, she's a saint. She let us keep, I think we kept three, three of them. And then, we hunted the hell out of those dogs.

No tracking collars, no Garmin, no nothing. It was bells and chase them around. And it's so much different than like now, like there was no, there's no [00:14:00] deer hunter. Deer hunting wasn't as popular. Like back then it was just like, Drop the beagles and go we're just going to walk and nobody's going to say anything to you, whether you cross property lines or

Nate Rozeveld: where you grew up was, still very much farm country.

Yeah. So a lot of wood lots would attach and I never going with you and you're like, dude, we can hunt from this road to that road and no one cared. Like when I was in early years of high school like I've talked about before, like when I started getting back into with dogs and now it's nope, we have only have permission here.

We got to make sure we, if we got chasing dogs, we will do that. But it's a lot different back then. You guys are just like wild, like our dogs are running and we're running behind them kind of thing. But yeah, you had beagles. So then. You've had beagles for a long time since you were like, yeah, you said you had your first one That was yourself at 10, but there's like I mean I was hunting with your family and you were yeah that age Like you couldn't even carry a gun yet.

Yeah, and you're out there running around dogs so then when did it progress from because beagles to bigger dogs for you,

Tony Hill: [00:15:00] so After like my wife and I were dating and It's like when I went to college. I let Tyler One of our really good friends, I let him, yeah, I let him hunt my dogs cause I was gone and I was just like, dude, just come to the house.

You don't have to ask me, you don't have to do anything. Just grab the dogs, take them. And then after Trooper passed spent like four, two, three, four years where I didn't have any dogs, just figuring things out. And then I saw an ad on Facebook. I went, I actually told my mom that cause I was still living with my parents at the time.

I told my mom that Fred, who's a blue tick, he's I told her that he wouldn't get much bigger than a Beagle. I told her you wouldn't get much bigger than a Beagle. He's 70 pounds. He's a big dog. And then my girlfriend and I, now wife, at the time, we went up there, picked him out, and then it was just like...

Dive in headfirst. Yeah, that

Nate Rozeveld: was [00:16:00] like, then you were just like, so Fred was you originally got him, your whole plan was to be a deer tracking dog, right? That was like your MO with that with him. And you did that. And then you're like, I like having these big dogs. So then you buy a bear dog and then you buy a coyote dog and then you buy a coon dog and then you have this.

So now, right now it's 2023. How many dogs do you have? Ah,

Tony Hill: quite a few.

Nate Rozeveld: Like five,

Tony Hill: six, like I know some of them you guys, it changes sometimes. I probably have five or six, five. And he's saying

Nate Rozeveld: that because these guys all what I'm learning is like a community of hunters.

So like you guys take turns, like helping each other out. Like some of your dogs aren't even at your house or with another kennel. So there's packs of dogs, but then the dogs you do have at home, like they're like behaved dog. That's what blows my mind. Yeah, they are like, some of them are little a holes, but.

Like you have these hunting dogs that you've been able to there's still very much family dogs. Like you can show up to your house and it's not like you're scared. You're not scared of your life. But these are great. You watch what these dogs will do. Chasing a bear, chasing a coyote. And [00:17:00] you're like.

This dog does that what are you talking about? So done a really good job at that. And then me and Tyler are just like, we barely have our, we have our hands full. We feel like these little beagles and then here's Tony with 70 pound dog here, 60 pound dog here, another giant dog there. And it's like constantly hunting them and doing all that stuff.

Tony Hill: So it's pretty cool. So about three years ago, so I'm just all new to the big dogs. Three years ago, I started going with my buddy. Just, I would just ride in the truck, help him out. They always need help. And then after my first year doing that, I got a, I got hammer. He's Yeah, I got him and then I started running him for One or two years and then I got another amos the one eyed dog He lost his eye when he was a puppy.

We had to get that removed and then I Ethel who's my wife's dog the coon dog I drove to Iowa and picked her up during COVID. Yeah, my wife picked her out. It was actually because we couldn't get an engagement ring. It's how I proposed to [00:18:00] my wife with a puppy. So So during COVID, I drove to Iowa and picked up this coon dog and then bless Helen.

She just accepts the fact that I'm always bringing dogs.

Nate Rozeveld: I asked you, I was like, how do you get away with that? I was like, she can't say no to puppies. So I puppies on me. So

Tony Hill: you just bring them home. They can't say no, but, and then, so I just, then Amos, and then I have some other, I have, it's like we had to put a few dogs, I have a kennel set up behind my house.

And then. So just, I just got addicted to walking into a bear tree. There's nothing like ending hard. Yeah. Like

Nate Rozeveld: you, that bug got you hard. Oh

Tony Hill: yeah.

Nate Rozeveld: Hard . Yeah, you do. I'm like, Tony, let's do something. We're running Bear. I'm like, again, yep. It's training season or it's this or doing that.

Yeah, we're chasing bear. I'm like, dude, you're doing like a

Tony Hill: lot all season. So like July 8th it opens and then basically till September it's, my wife. It's the one thing she hates. Cause it's it's all summer. Like [00:19:00] every weekend in the summer, weeknights in the summer, just always trying to train dogs, always trying to get dogs.

And I'm still learning. I'm brand new. Yeah. So you're

Nate Rozeveld: trying. Yeah. You're

Tony Hill: to put 10 times the amount of work in that. Other guys or older guys do, cause they already know how to do all these things. And I'm just trying to learn and figure everything out. I'm still green

Nate Rozeveld: well, and they have older dogs and they have a, they have the hierarchy of their kennel figured out.

You're trying to like dive head first into this. Exactly. Doing that. It's fun from the outside looking in, I don't, I do not envy the Snapchats of all the dog food you go through, but doing those kinds of things. There is something about seeing that and like how much fun you have chasing bears with dogs Like that is so cool, and like I can only like hopefully I can tag along one of these times But I know ashley's like super interested with we're talking about our night at dinner and you guys left and she's like I really want to see that sometime I was like, you understand, she's cause I've, watched a lot of YouTube videos, like the [00:20:00] untamed guy, she's seen those YouTube videos and she's that is awesome.

I'm like Tony kind of does that. She's really? That's what that's like for him too. I was like, yeah. And then after dinner, she's I'm totally gonna have to go around and see how that goes. One time she's I don't even care if I was right around the truck, like just seeing how that happens and how those dogs can do that with the bears.

It's just a cool thing to watch a dog work. And that's why we love having dogs like beagles and I have a water. I've always had a waterfowl dog and like just pointers and stuff like that. Like seeing them do what they're made to do, like in their bloodline is just something magical about it.

Fulfilling, you're doing what this dog wants to do and they love it. Like when Fred hopped out of your car to go track, he was like, yes. He's just running across and feel like I'm here to do a job and I love it. And he's just working his teeth. And it's a cool

Tony Hill: thing.

Yeah. So the end of the year, like the, that's the most important for the most, the thing I get the most out of it is watching the dogs work and watching them. The, those [00:21:00] buttons click those switches, click and seeing that the last tree of the year during training season, I had all three of my dogs make the tree.

It's that was huge for me. Like truck to tree, like three of my dogs like that. I have. I've had two of them since they're six weeks old. I put thousands of hours into them and that was really cool. And then it's just watching those things click in a young dog. There's you, there's nothing better.

You put, so people don't realize how much time. Time and effort goes in it. I guarantee I work two jobs just taking care of dogs. Easy, like you're always doing stuff. My wife would say the same thing like I The amount of time it takes to just get a dog to go on a trail just go straight to follow a Trail people like you say the untamed videos, which yes, those are awesome, and I love them and they're great but like They're and nobody wants to watch [00:22:00] the video where things don't happen.

Correct. So that's the problem. Yes. It's like people see the hound videos and they think oh, every time there's a bear at the end, everything is, every time they drop the dogs, there's a bear in the tree.

Nate Rozeveld: It's a clockwork. Oh, drop the dogs, there's a sweet bear in a tree. No, don't see all the failed

Tony Hill: attempts.

Yeah. That just doesn't happen. And I think that's it is just that people miss the hard work that goes in that other 365 days of the year where you're training these puppies or working with puppies. Doing everything else and then you can't be

Nate Rozeveld: lazy. Yeah, you can't you have to be consistent like from what I've noticed because you're like As soon as that July 8th time period happens you go gangbusters Yeah, I'm like do this dudes working so hard and he there's zero chance.

He's even gonna kill one yeah, you're not doing it for the bear kill You're just doing to see the bear the dogs do what they love to do I'm like we go rabbit hunting you tag along Almost every weekend with us and you will like, we're hunting spots that you've had for years and hunt. And 90 percent of the time you don't even bring a gun, like you're the dude that just I've got my bibs on, I'm going to blow through [00:23:00] the thick stuff and just have a good time.

Like you're not even trying to shoot stuff. Like you're in it for the dogs. And when you, it's hard to explain to someone if they don't know, but like when you it's bred do. The fulfillment, like you just, my wife, she didn't grow up with hunting dogs or anything like that. She just had a, she had boxers, which boxers are cool dogs, but they're not, they're just good for being in the house.

They don't retrieve, they don't work. They're not hunting dogs, like anything like that. And then when she, we got married in the first, we had a pointer. When we first were married and, crazy high strung dog, but he was a hunter and when she like saw that she's oh my gosh What is that now?

She loves it Like so she's like I don't ever want to have anything but a honey dog from now on because they're so driven And you get such like you see it and it's like the gears are turning then when she goes rabbit home She's like those little I remember when I brought ruby home, she's like the smallest little female beagle ever the sweetest little dog she's a cuddler and all that stuff And I took her hunter.

I was like you have no idea what she's like when you drop the tailgate in the truck She's like really I was like, she [00:24:00] just she'll own all the other boys. She goes through all the thick stuff She's bleeding. She's doing her thing. And I yeah, you see that and it's just like she loves seeing It's just like it's a cool thing But yeah The work that you've put into granted there's work for a beagle dog But like once a beagle dog figures out how to run rabbits You can be a little bit more lax like you can't be lax because your dog's got to be in Fantastic shape.

They gotta be, handle, handle a dog like that's completely different than a little beagle. And we're doing in these little wood lots, you're like, how many miles do you guys like a dog run a bear or a thousand yards, like 900 yards, like what

Tony Hill: kind of stuff is it?

It's miles usually. Yeah. And we get out run. It happens, but I've seen a one, two, three, I've seen Five miles. I've seen, 10, 20 miles. I've seen, yeah, I've seen dogs spend eight hours in a swamp all day and nasty. The worst swamp you could imagine. Yeah. And then times it by 10. Yeah, they're working in the hardest terrain and that's a thing.

It's like [00:25:00] with beagles and rabbits and deer tracking dogs, like they're, You can I could put Fred easy on probably 60 70 deer this year. We can rabbit hunt every single weekend Now I don't live where I can bear hunt. So I got to drive a few hours usually and then It's usually a weekend thing.

Yeah, if you don't get a bear on that weekend Get a weight the dogs didn't get any work. So it's like You it's not like rabbits. It's not like deer. It's yeah, it's not as prevalent. Yeah, no, it's prevalent. You gotta work so much harder to Find a suitable track that you can run. That's the hardest thing like I've spent days where I've driven from 3 a.

m. In the morning till 10 a. m. And Not found a bear

Nate Rozeveld: track. That's crazy. That we can run. Yeah, just cause you're learning what you need to see for that, yeah. So what does it feel you talked about how your three dogs treat a bear, what was that [00:26:00] like? Cause obviously I'm assuming you have the GPS tracker so you knew they were treated, right?

Did you know that it was treated or you don't really know? Are you good enough? You see your thing, you're like, Oh gosh, they're treated. And instantly you're just like, Oh yes. What kind of adrenaline rush or like a thing do you go through when you actually, that actually

Tony Hill: came to be?

Yeah. So I'm lucky. I have some guys with some finished dogs that I can actually put my dogs with. So my, I don't have a dog that's capable of like cold trail and a bear. Okay. So that's the most important thing. And I just, you got to develop that. And I, it sounds

Nate Rozeveld: like you need my dog. So

Tony Hill: I don't have a dog, but I've.

I'm lucky enough to have, be able to hunt with a group of guys where I can put my dogs in and you can, that's another thing you have to be so good at reading the GPS and reading the terrain and reading everything else to just being able to understand what is happening, like what if they cross things or if they're working something out, if they're doing small circles or whatever.

Yeah. If it's a nasty, terrible swamp and it's water, [00:27:00] it's going to take them a long time to figure it out. They're going to have to start doing small circles, but it was, when you see those, when you see those Garmin's go treat, there's no better feeling and then

Nate Rozeveld: just walking in and you can, like the adrenaline almost like when you shoot a deer, like a thing you

Tony Hill: get, and then you can just, and then you can just hear the dogs, like they're just so loud and you can hear them.

And you're walking in and you can hear them from. A couple of hundred yards away and then you get to the tree and sometimes you can't even hear because you can't even think straight. You can't even, because it's just, they're just so excited and it's the happiest they'll ever be. And then, we just, most of the time the bear's just chilling up there.

We get a few of that, but most of the time they're just up there just relaxing and then just grab the dogs, walk out. And then sometimes you can stay and watch them come down and that's pretty cool. That's sweet. But. Yeah, there's no better feeling love

Nate Rozeveld: it. I mean i'm fired up. I'm like, I don't want to hear this because it's true So like I'm primarily deer hunter, but someone [00:28:00] dumps a turkey, you get boom, yeah, that was just awesome.

And then you shoot a deer and it's drawn down, but it only lasts like a handful, like maybe a couple of minutes. If you're like, if you do kill one, or if you see a deer, you get to drown them. But I can only imagine like. Going up like when I'm right behind and you hear the beagles hot rabbit the whole time your hearts elevated you're on edge You're amped.

You're just like you can't wipe the smile off your face because it's just so much fun I couldn't imagine just hearing these dogs just thundering just going crazy Walking up. It just yeah, I got experience. Yeah times for sure Yeah, I just don't know if I can the problem is like you said it's not oh, hey Nate come along this weekend We're gonna tree one.

Yeah, it's one of those things you have to really commit You know, extended period of time for and go through. So when you do get that moment, it's so worth it. Yeah.

Tony Hill: And that's part of the problem too. Like I have like people that want to come with, or I'll have like my dad rides with me quite a few times.

And it's he could come with me on Saturday or Friday or whenever I go. And then we could have, we could do nothing. And then Sunday I go and we treat two bears. Yeah. Like it's just [00:29:00] the luck of the draw sometimes. Sometimes you go and it's you sit in a truck and ride around for a few hours and nothing happens And then some days it's the most exciting day on earth like it just It's the luck of the draw.

Nate Rozeveld: Okay. So did, were you able to go on some like successful bear hunts this fall or, cause the there's like a season, like obviously like the baiting season, then there's like a dog season, a thing. It's broke up to like weeks or how's that kind of structure here in the lower upper

Tony Hill: so lower peninsula, it's, I believe they get one or two days before we do.

So like their season starts on like Saturday and they get Saturday and Sunday for bait sitters and then Monday the dogs start and then at the end, so their season closes Sunday and then Monday and Tuesday the dog season gets. So it's only two days. No. So we go past them. So their season is Sunday to Sunday, ours is monday to Tuesday, I see.

Nate Rozeveld: You're saying the following. So did you [00:30:00] get to see any bears get shot this year? No,

Tony Hill: unfortunately I didn't. I, we had one in the swamp for six, seven, eight hours. And then we had terrible weather, torrential downpours. And then we put some small ones across the road, like 150 pounders.

Just not something we want to shoot. It's.

Nate Rozeveld: That's the thing. Like you get to be a little bit more like you, once the bears in the tree or you see the track, like you can be very easy to be selective. Oh, is that what we were looking for? Nope. It's not that's not the criteria. Like watching a bear walk into a bait pile.

Like I did that this spring. When do you have no idea, like clueless. So I think seeing that, I think it helps a lot with conservation and picking the right kind of animals to shoot, but so yeah, you did that and then so now let's so you did bear A season is like your summer like yeah doing that training and stuff and then you did the bear hunt and then Now, like right now, we're deer tracking.

Like how many deer tracks have you been on October 20th today?[00:31:00]

Tony Hill: I think I just checked, I think I'm like 17.

Nate Rozeveld: 17, which is, but you didn't do much this weekend 'cause you did go on a hunt. No. Like north. So you were

Tony Hill: done. Yeah, but I did .

Nate Rozeveld: Yeah. I we're gonna get to, I'm. I want to get into I've seen some on social media, so we're going to get to that.

So you've done 17 tracks. I know like mine obviously was not a successful one, but you've had a couple really good tracks. I know you helped a veteran guy out, we talked about a few weeks ago. Like that was so cool finding that deer. So you've had some really good times, but I want to roll into this whole like, You in like nipple deep water Dragging this buck.

I want to get into that story because I'm assuming it's a good story. I haven't heard it Yeah, so tell us what happened with that whole ordeal

Tony Hill: So the cool thing now with a lot of hunters is a lot of hunters are videotaping I mean compared to what even when I started five years ago, like it's exploded like one in five tracks almost like At least or more like I'm getting a video nice and videos are very deceiving like we saw lighted knocks are [00:32:00] deceiving where it hit the deer what happened, but I mean you can get a general idea so the hunter sent me the video and After looking at the video.

I was like dude your deer's dead Like we the deers you can just tell I mean There's certain things you can just you could just see in the video slow mo to play frame by frame. I was like The deer's dead. He had got to like a hundred ish yards and lost blood and then it started, he had, he did everything right.

He's he thought it was back. He thought he had like gut content on the arrow. So he waited and didn't track it all, backed out, came back the next morning at eight, tracked it, got to a hundred yards, found two beds and then lost blood. And then he called me. Luckily, I was at work and we had just I'd get out at like noon and I was like, ah, I was like, I'll be there by two.

But it was pouring rain or raining all day. And I was like, God, like you can still track through the [00:33:00] rain, but sometimes there's you're playing a dangerous game with how much is too much. Yes. How much will help. So we go there. As soon as we get to the hit site, like Fred crushes it. walks line for line straight to the end of the track.

And we get to, so mark your last blood. Yes. Always mark your last blood, whether that's with a hat, a ribbon, anything, just because it's, everything looks so much different. So we marked it. And then we had taken, he'd show me on his Onyx. He done a little bit of, not grid searching, but he walked around and he had to get permission on the neighboring property.

So he'd went and got permission. And so we did. Fred did two tracks or two lines where it came up empty. And I was like, I was just getting a little discouraged, but not, I knew the deer was dead. So I was like, we're just going to have, I was like, dude, we're just going to keep restarting until it's if you grid search, the dog is walking everywhere.

You walk he can smell he the blood the dander the odor everything that is on your [00:34:00] boots He's yes, and I believe that's what happened. He followed

Nate Rozeveld: because it's not like you're not worried about grid searching It's not hard on a dog because you're smearing blood or you're doing that.

You're just whatever lingering scent It's in an area, you walk through it, it sticks to your pants, whatever, you can't even see it, and then you walk over yonder and walk over yonder, that scent just becomes, instead of like you explained to me with my deer, you're like, if that deer just goes to his bed or His scent line is from point of impact to where he bedded and died possibly or if he gets up It just goes in like a uniform line and it's like a zone of that scent When we go around there and walk and we start crossing Perpendicular to any of that scent all we're doing is dragging that scent stream and making it a much wider Trail opposed to a narrow trail.

So like when you explain it to me, I was like, ah, that makes sense It's not like i'm Smearing just blood. There's so much other stuff going on that we as humans that don't even recognize. So It sounds like you've said like you restart tracks because sometimes the dog will Take off in a direction where [00:35:00] that scent stream got drug And then comes up empty.

So he just had to figure out your was that you mean

Tony Hill: decipher What was going on? I think he just He, and the hunter, he was completely, he was very honest with me. He showed me his Onyx, like the tracker app, like where he walked. And I was just like, man, we're just going to have to like restart and just see what happens.

Like we'll, he will figure it out and we will figure it out. So we'd and then we were walking back and we're up going up the Creek and I was like, man, that looks like a deer in the river there. And I was like, ah, I don't know. Like he's ah we'll check when we come back.

And I was like, all right. Let's just go restart. So I restart Fred the third time which Sounds bad, but I mean happens. If you've been in the tracking game long enough, it's gonna happen like Sometimes the dogs just make mistakes or things happen. So we go back and start on the third time He breaks the left and then he just starts grubbing like he's just Nose deep in the dirt.

Just you can hear him sucking in. Oh, yeah, I can hear him All right. And then all of a [00:36:00] sudden I look and he goes down the bank and I'm like, all right. And then he goes down the bank and then he's walking. I get over there and he's walking up and down the bank. And I'm like, I look and I'm like, dude, that's your deer right there.

He's I was like, that's gotta be your deer right there. And he's no way. It's no, that's not my deer. And what happened is. The butt of the deer was in the air. Okay, but the head was fully submerged so you couldn't see anything So it just looked

Nate Rozeveld: yeah, it wasn't like it just

Tony Hill: looked like a rock Yeah, like the stomach had bloated and like floated and that's what was sticking up but the head was totally underwater and I Got a little bit closer and I was like, ah, I can see antlers.

I was like didn't I was like, I think that's your deer.

Nate Rozeveld: And so how far from like where you shot the deer to where you guys found it? Was that, I would say

Tony Hill: probably around 200. So not,

Nate Rozeveld: yeah. Like you said, not far. They will die within that radius. If you don't push them. And I think

Tony Hill: what happened with this deer is I think the hide slipped and moved.

And after it bedded down, it covered, cause [00:37:00] when I pulled it out of the water, I had to pull the hide to see the exit wound. Okay. I see what you're saying. So I think that hide kind of slips and it can move. It's not, it's

Nate Rozeveld: not super tight always. Like it's flexible. You grab your, like a lab, everyone knows a lab dog, you grab a lab on the back of the shoulders and neck, and you can stretch their hide.

Deer do that same thing when they're warm,

Tony Hill: yeah. So I think the hide stretched. And then slid covered up the holes. There was no blood after that last blood bed. It only went like Maybe a hundred yards past that last but it was a straight 90 degree left turn. Gotcha. Like he thought it went straight back in the deep thick nasty swamp and then what had happened it had just directly hard

Nate Rozeveld: left turn.

So then that guy probably crossed that trail multiple times when he was looking around and not even

Tony Hill: realizing it. Yeah and then we actually crossed the trail walking out and I think like when we were walking out I had Fred on a leash and he [00:38:00] actually pulled me that way. So I think he knew it was there before we even walked out because we walked over on our walk out.

We walked past it and then tracked

Nate Rozeveld: back. Oh, I see. So yeah, that's like I said, there's always minute things that you learn from every track. So how cold was it to this day?

Tony Hill: It was pretty cold. What happened is we had to cross a creek to get there. And I had already went over my boots, so you're

Nate Rozeveld: committed.

And you're wearing bibs, right? Yeah, I was wearing cardboard bibs,

Tony Hill: non insulated. This water's deep. Yeah, so I told the kid, I was like, man, I'll just, I was like, I'm already wet, I'll just go grab it,

Nate Rozeveld: what a service.

Tony Hill: Might as well. So I grabbed a stick, cause I didn't, the water's pretty deep. Dirty and murky so I couldn't see how deep it was and then I'm like grabbing a stick and then I took off like all my belt my Wallet my phone my keys.

I took off everything and then like on the way over I think I went up to like my nipples like

Nate Rozeveld: yeah, [00:39:00] it was cold.

Tony Hill: I Get over there and I lift it up and I'm like, hey, is this your deer? And he's like he was pumped and I was like, it's his first public land. I think first public land years. I'm super excited I mean It was a really nice eight point.

And then, so I, on my way back, I was like, I'm not taking that. So I went upstream a little bit and found a shallower route. I still went over my waist. You're over your waist. But it was cold and it got cold fast and then I would get it to the shore and I was just, he was just pumped and I was pumped and the only way Fred will go in the water is if it's a deer.

Like he, he's not going in the water. No, he doesn't swim at all. He hates the water. None of. So he, and then, the shot was good.

Nate Rozeveld: Yeah. So yeah, break that down. Like what do you, the deer was dead 200 yards away from where he shot it and he bedded down a couple of times, obviously it's hard to know how long he was dead for, but do you think it was one of those things where it was like a liver shot, was it long liver you think, or what kind

Tony Hill: of? It was quartering too. Okay. There's a [00:40:00] crossbow, a schwacker broadhead. So a big cut, but the thing, like a lot of trackers are seeing now is with the crossbows is they go through deer so fast that they don't leave the same residue on an arrow that like a compound will.

Okay. So like you're not seeing the same, it almost cleans the arrow sometimes because it's going through so fast.

Nate Rozeveld: And you have I have the crossbow bullets sitting right there in the corner, leaned up with some other arrows for half the length. So like by the time, if you ever look at like an arrow that, on a kill shot of a deer, it goes through the lungs, like all your blood's pretty much in the last like quarter of the arrow, like you don't even have a quarter of, you're already at a disadvantage because that thing's not dragging through and it's going, I don't know how many more feet per second, but it zips through a deer.

Tony Hill: Yeah. So he made a good shot. I. If I had to guess I didn't really look at it because I was too excited because I found it Yeah, you're just like yes, I was just relieved and then but it wasn't bad. It was a good shot he made a good shot, but sometimes I Track for a lot of good shots. I [00:41:00] It sometimes things just don't work out broad heads don't open or there's just no blood trail Like you said maybe the high did something the cavity the hide slips I've had a, I did a track last year where guy made a perfect shot. Deer only went 200 yards, but the fat, it was such a steep angled shot.

Kind of like the one we did where the exit came out the stomach, but the fat from the stomach clogged the hole in the bottom. So no blood was getting out and the entrance was high, so all the blood was pooled in the a deer is a upside down canoe.

Nate Rozeveld: So that's a great reference. Yeah. That everything,

Tony Hill: everything pools in the bottom.

Now, if your holes are high, the blood's not coming out. So all the blood was pulling in the bottom. We ended up finding deer at 200 yards, but he only found two drops of blood and I only saw two drops of blood. Yeah. How do

Nate Rozeveld: you, how do you find that deer without a dog or without an extensive search party and get lucky to stumble?

Cause like [00:42:00] you were talking about a deer earlier, was it this year? Like you think you had walked by that deer in close proximity, maybe a couple of times before Fred really keyed in on it. Cause he was doing his thing. You're like, dude, I could have walked by that deer. For an hour and never picked it up because like they're hard to see sometimes Yeah, especially if they're laid down not belly up because yeah Oh, but you look for the white belly that sticks out But when they die in a bed or they you know Lay down and die or whatever like they're hard to see man and we usually find

Tony Hill: them in the nasty a lot of times the nastiest worst places and Every year deer get left in the woods.

I've left deer in the woods. Any tracker that says they haven't left a deer in the woods is a liar. It just, it happens. Last year, I brought Fred out and another tracker brought his dog out. Two dogs that have found over a hundred deer. Combined, both dogs. Both dogs are three, four years old.

We put them both on this guy's track. Something with the scenting conditions, something with the pressure, humidity, whatever it was. We told the guy, we knew his deer was [00:43:00] dead. We put two dogs, experienced dogs on it and we just, we came up empty. We spent, I think we spent six, seven hours, eight hours helping this guy.

And we just couldn't help him. Like the dogs couldn't figure it out. And then. He texted us like two days later, a day later he found it. Yeah. And it was just like, it's a crushing blow, but it's man, we, you, there's things you can't control. Like the atmosphere, the pressure, the humidity, the temperature, everything like, and that's the thing, like hunters forget about.

It's it's not just it's not a

Nate Rozeveld: guarantee either that the dog is going to work. Like the dog is way better than us, but you're still, you still, isn't a good guarantee that they're going to find, cause there's a lot of conditions just it's not a guarantee that deer is going to stand there broadside 20 yards and not move when you shoot it or whatever, there's a lot of variables, but yeah, like when you're talking about the conditions, I can relate because when we go rabbit hunting, like granted is different than deer tracking, but still similar, they, there's days they're just on fire. [00:44:00] Like every rabbit in the section, we are going to run that day. And then there's days you go back and it's it's a good spot. There's rabbit sign everywhere. And you'll see rabbits running out of the dogs and the dogs don't can't pick it up. Like they just can't quite decipher what's going on.

And that's because you're in nature, like a lot of different things going on. So that's a good point. Yeah. So

Tony Hill: I'm trying to like, we're trying to explain that to hunters more. And that's the big thing. It's like you. The more we all learn, the better we're all going to be together. Like the more we learn about scent conditions, the more you learn about arrow.

Cause like I always tell people, like I tell you, or I tell all my other buddies, I want you to track your deer. I don't want you to rely on me all the time. Like I want you, I want people to go track their deer. I don't want to come out and find your deer in two seconds because you just didn't want to look for it.

Like I will do that. I have no problem doing

Nate Rozeveld: that. But you still want to like you're just, you're assisting, like you just want to help and

Tony Hill: do these things people out. So I'm like, go track your [00:45:00] deer, give it 150, 200 yards, send me the arrow, send me the picture, send me the blood, send me everything else.

And then when you get to a point where Hey, I think I'm really going to need a deer tracker. Yeah. Like I really. That's where you take a ribbon, put it on the tree and walk out and then call me and then I'll show up and I'll be pumped. But I, and the reason why you probably

Nate Rozeveld: have that approach is because I'm not your only buddy that needs help tracking a deer.

You're getting blowed up with lots of tracks and there's times where you just can't help people because you're busy on another track. So I think that's why you're encouraging that because Hey, if that deer. Does die in the first 150 yards, which if it's a good shot deer, the statistically double lung deer is going to be dead in that first 200 yards grand.

Like you just said earlier, things could happen angles, or you might double lung it, but the exits back and doesn't bleed that well, but typically if you have a good shot, the deer will be dead within 200 yards and you'll have a nice blood trail, which. The average guy should be able to follow.

Yeah. So [00:46:00] like you want to be resourceful so you can help the guy or the older gentleman or whoever, maybe because you help a lot of older people and kids and that kind of stuff. And you're just, you're essentially, you're just like this wealth of knowledge that just can help people. And that's why you do this to help.

You're not doing it to make a bunch of money. You're not doing it for any of that. It's just, it goes back to the bear dogs and the rabbit dogs are doing it because it's fun. You like watching dog do his thing and you just love being outside and just seeing, deer, like enjoying that moment with people.

But I guess just quick, I don't want to spend too much time, but like a lot of people ask about the financial aspect of this. And from my experience, like I've had another guy help track a few years ago that wasn't you. Cause you were busy on our track and like my mindset's always been. Like if I were to go do something for someone that is not my close buddy or Hey, I need you, Nate.

I need you to come, look at my deck or I need you to give me a hand building something or whatever. If I'm gonna like hop in my truck and go drive to someone that's not like a close friend and do a service granted, yeah, I'll help people out [00:47:00] I'm a helpful guy, but just think of it that way, like, how far is this guy driving?

He's gotta put gas in his truck, he's gotta do this and that. So it's not like you're trying to be like, Oh, you got to give this guy a bunch of money, whatever you feel right. But it's take that into consideration. Like the guy helped me, he probably only tracked for an hour, but he was he came from like Zealand.

So he had three hours of driving or three, he was three, four hours into his day. So I just looked at that and you're like, you know what, Hey, how much money would I like someone to pay me if I did something for four hours? So that's what I've done. And you have a great approach.

You're just like, Hey, if you want to Venmo me something to do it, like I'm not doing it for the money, but. If you're in a position where you can do this, like these guys got to put, give their dogs food, they got to keep up on vet bills, which I can't imagine you got going on with that, and then gas to get out there in time away from the family and time out, tree stand time for you, or, the gum line kind of stuff.

This, if anyone listens to that, don't let money be the deciding factor to not help find a deer. Cause like you track does you track year and a half old bucks? You track big bucks. Like it doesn't matter. Let's try and get this deer out of the woods. Like that's as a [00:48:00] hunter, you're trying to do your best, but you don't get through that.

Tony Hill: So I try to do, I try to do donation. I, like I like to stay close cause then I can help me. The more clients I have closer, the more people I can help, the more tracks I can do. But it doesn't always work like that. And like I've had to start charging because gas, yeah. I'm spending almost $4 a gallon for gas.

, I've spent dog food, Garmin collars, Garmin handhelds. Yeah. I even think about electronics. Yeah. Those are not cheap. Yep. Just year-round care just for a dog, bills alone is insane. And then God forbid, knock on wood, nothing's happened. But if something happens to Fred on a track, that's an easy thousand dollars Oh, gone out the door.

Yeah, it's taboo to talk. It's gotten more acceptable to talk about it now, like in the last couple of years, like what guys are charging or what, but I would say like typically. If you're asking a guy to drive an [00:49:00] hour or 45 minutes one way, you're probably going to be looking at 200 bucks.

Yeah. Because he's going to spend an hour, it's two hours of driving and then he's probably, depending on it's probably an hour's worth of work at least. And another thing you're looking for, you're paying for that experience of that dog. When I first started and. When I was tracking my first couple years I tracked for almost exclusively only donations because I'm looking to get Fred on as many dead deer or deer as I can like I Can't pass up like your first year's tracking you want to get as your dog on as many dead deer and deer you can like You're building the

Nate Rozeveld: experience.

Tony Hill: You're building your client like your internship. Yeah doing that but five years I'd put a ton of time in so you're like, yeah, I've driven Everywhere. I've driven up to, I just tracked an elk up in Vanderbilt one time. That was awesome. I've driven down like[00:50:00] an hour and a half South. I've driven east, like you have to put the work in the beginning.

Yes. And then now five years later, you reap the rewards of all the work you put

Nate Rozeveld: in. Yeah. Cause you know that for the service like it's still like a thing you're doing to help, but you're providing a service for the hunter. That, that 200 or 150 or 250, whatever it is, the number, you're, it's a fair, it's a fair number because it is all this experience.

And for me, from the hunter's perspective okay, I understand that a lot of people, are not like the most well off financially, or, they're going by and they're doing this as cheap as they can because, they may have a big family or, whatever may be going on, but still maybe if once you pull back your bow or pull the trigger, whatever, there's a sense of responsibility that takes place. What do you do that? And if we have dog tracking now, much more like to help you recover that deer. If you do come to a circumstance where it doesn't work, but that like Tony saying, it's not a given, but it's also a helpful thing.

But maybe that guy who. [00:51:00] Doesn't have the money or whatever. Maybe you can, go through and figure something out, something else out, like work with a guy or maybe become friends with someone and be like, Hey. Instead of, having to come up with this big sum of money dude, you're a buddy of mine.

Or let's maybe I can give you some gift cards to get dog food or just develop a relationship with someone that you can do. There's a lot of things you can be proactive or Hey, like I'll help you train a dog or what, I'm just going through my head, like all these things that you could possibly do.

Cause you don't need to know 10 trackers. You really only need to know one. And then, you, maybe you'll be busy, but I'm saying there's ways to get around it, you can be creative. Don't just be like, I go out in the woods and you smash a deer and it's a bad shot and you're like yeah, I can't afford a deer tracker.

It's okay, what is that worth? Do you do do you pay for someone to process a deer for you? That's like a 200 an all dang near. So maybe you don't, if you find the deer, you don't, you do the processing yourself and then. You shoot four deer, you save yourself 500 bucks. There's a little pile of money in the future.

Be like, Hey, I got extra money to pay for a dog tracker because I do this. There's a lot of things [00:52:00] that kind of finagle and make

Tony Hill: stuff happen. But so the thing is in Michigan so like we have the Michigan deer tracking network that I'm a part of and we just came out with the app. So we have an app and all of our trackers are in there.

I will show you get on the app. I will show you the nearest tracker to your location. So go to, it'll ping your location on the app and then it'll give you the tracker closest and allow you to call. But there's so many trackers in Michigan now, I feel that and there's some like up North like the Lake County area, but even then there's more people there now, but then when I first started, but you're, there's so many trackers now that like driving over an hour to me is almost like.

It's not worth it because there's so many trackers now that you can find somebody generally closer Like I'm looking to save you money by hey, I'll give you a number you call this Person or hey go to this app or here go to this list. It's so cool. Do you have that? So I work with [00:53:00] it like I work closely with two or three four other guys in This area and I'm like, hey, let's figure this out If I get a track here, I'll send it to you.

You get a track here. We'll send it to me like One of my probably one of my closest friends alex. He lives over by grand haven. So we kind of work that like hey If I get something more towards the grand haven area because we're both listed in ottawa county I'll send it to him. He gets something more Ravana area and he has two kids.

So he's working. He's got a fairly busy schedule so sometimes things don't always work out for both of us, but like

Nate Rozeveld: Just retire from your job and just do this full time and it'll be way easier for you.

Tony Hill: But that's just not realistic. That's the thing we're, all these trackers are working together and the, there's the the Michigan Deer Tracking Network is getting stronger we're putting criteria in place for trackers where you have to do a certain amount of tracks.

We want serious people who are going to put the work in we want people that are willing to put the work in Not just I'm not [00:54:00] criticizing people, not people who are just like looking to do this for Oh, I'm going to track five, 10 deer a year from a buddy. We're looking for people who are going to go out there and going to track 25, 50 deer a year.

Yeah. Commitment, man. Yeah. We're looking to get people's dogs tested. Yep. By the admins in the group. , the administrators guys who have probably been doing this 10 years are gonna test your dog and see Hey, is this dog legit? Because we don't want people out there.

Nate Rozeveld: You're trying to provide a really good service for the, you're doing that for the hunters.

That's the only

Tony Hill: reason why we doing it. This, we're trying to build a respectable organization, the most trusted organization in Michigan, where if you call, you're getting somebody who's been vetted. You're getting somebody. Who's got a tested dog who people know can track deer people, somebody in our administration or has seen that dog perform a test, whether that's a 400 yard, 400 yard, [00:55:00] 400 yard, eight hour track with two wound beds.

Like somebody has physically seen, Hey, this dog can find deer. So we're trying to put that in place for the public. So when they go on our app. And they go on that and they can say, Hey, if I call anybody on this list, they're going to bring out a respectable dog, respectable person, and they're going to find the deer.

Yeah. You're getting a very good service. Yeah. So we're trying to,

Nate Rozeveld: which is so cool. Yeah. So for me like I had a dog, he's passed away since, but I trained them, like you, you, so I guess we can, I roll into if anyone wants to like join or do this more you don't need to have a brand new puppy.

Like I trained my dog when he was three and he was a lab and he took to it. Like he was great. And he tracked a few deer for me and did really well, found deer. But I only did a couple of tracks with him and then he passed the next year. So I missed that. I have another dog now, but he's just not quite the same yet.

Like I would never like, there's guys who might think, Oh my gosh, my [00:56:00] dog is so good. And the dog might be really good, but me as the handler has no idea what's going on. So it's not I don't want anyone to think Oh man, they don't think your dog's good enough because he's only been on five to 10 tracks his whole life.

It's more of like you, it's like the handler, like having that experience and like being able to read your dog and do that. So I think that's like as hard as like having a dog that does it, so I think that's a really good point. But just grind it out. If anything you want to do is worth if you want to be a good bow hunter, it doesn't happen overnight.

If you want to be a guy that's going out there and chasing, turkeys or any kind of fishing like you have to do this is like a long term game Like this is something you got to do and that's how you've done this whole dog thing It's been a years of work and that kind of stuff. I don't yeah grinding exactly Get to the point now where it's like hey, yeah, man, if i'm gonna go, you know be able to do this track It's gonna i'm gonna get compensated enough that it's you know You're never going to be ahead.

Like you're not going to be in the clear, but it's just make it worth your while, to continue to do this great thing for us hunters. So it's a really cool thing, but yeah, I want to touch base [00:57:00] on that. And then unfortunately I have a birthday party I have to get going too, but I want to roll into like your season so far.

So you're, I'm assuming you're really busy. We talked about the tracking and you touched that first base. You think it's going to really pick up at the end of October, but like for you hunting, let's roll into that. How has how has the season been for you so

Tony Hill: far? So just one more quick thing.

Oh yeah. Sorry. You go for it. If you're going to nowadays with tracking, if you're going to pick a tracking team, like if you're going on Facebook, just go to their Facebook page, do a quick look and just see you could, everybody's got a Facebook page, any tracker, just go look and see, make sure it's legit.

So you're not paying somebody. An absurd amount of money to come out because I've heard of that happening And then you get there and the dog can't even find its own tail like so just do hunters. Everybody's got facebook Just go look see if he's got recoveries. Just see if he's got pictures with deer see Like just do a little background research before you call somebody and have them come out and then you're out two three four hundred dollars For [00:58:00] somebody who couldn't have found your deer in the first place.

Yes.

Nate Rozeveld: No, this is not good Yeah, and speaking of Facebook find it Fred is where you find Tony. So if anyone Needs to do that. Go look on that. But so yeah, so let's go into your year because I'm pumped because I've failed miserably twice. So like I like talking to you and seeing what you got going on I know obviously you probably a hundred as much as me, but you've had some pretty good you've had some pretty good shits.

Tony Hill: I feel like i've gone out Three or four times i'm very particular on when I go out. I mean I hang and hunt almost that's all I do. I don't have any preset stands anymore really, I've matured a lot. I don't, I pass a lot of deer now, younger deer. Like I'm not talking like a two and a half year old, 16 inch eight point.

I'm going to have a real hard time passing that. But I pass a lot of six points, five points younger deer that just you can tell body wise, they're not mature. I, my dad is a Brown. It's down guy. Yeah. That's how you're raised. That's how I was raised. That's how I grew up. If you see a deer, you shoot it [00:59:00] like spikes.

And now that we've started hunting in like the Northwest 12 where the APR is in place, that's done a ton for me. Like you can't shoot the first year. You got to make sure it's got three points. So I pass up a ton of like spikes, three points, four points. And then once you start doing that, like it helps you just.

And then you start killing bigger deer. I started to evolve Hey, like I had a six point this year, a nice six point. Not as I sent you the picture, not like we're going

Nate Rozeveld: to scrape six points. That's a sweet buck. Yeah,

Tony Hill: it was a really nice six point at 30 yards. Perfect. And I just, I had to take, I put my release off, like I flipped my release.

So it was back and then I just took some pictures and like I had them at 30 yards for an hour, like just in there milling around, making a scrape, freshen up a scrape. And then I've just, I've gotten to the point where it's I know what I want to shoot. And I'm trying to find every year it's going to be stricter.

Like me and you talk about all the [01:00:00] time. Like I'll send you pictures of deer. I get on trail cams. I'm like, Hey, what do you think about this? Cause you're somebody I can actually trust. Like I'm not going

Nate Rozeveld: to be like blow up your spot or doing it like

Tony Hill: that. . I track for so many people who are like, I shot 140 inch buck, and I get there and I track it and it's like an 85 inch eight point, correct.

, and I'm not, I, it's hard. I think people just haven't, we don't see enough in Michigan, you don't see enough True. Like the buck on the wall right there. 140 inch deer. Yeah. It's like a guy shoots a hundred, 120 inch, 80 inch, eight point, and they're like, they think they shot a Boer. . Which it happens, but I'm getting to the point now where I'm trying to.

Pass up certain climbing the ladder for sure. Shoot. I shoot a lot more does a shot Two does last year. I shot one with my bow and then I shot one with my gun So I'm trying to I'm trying to move towards like I'm gonna shoot a bunch of

Nate Rozeveld: does but you're doing something, right? Yeah, like you said you don't hunt as much as you used to because you're tracking and you're picking your days But it's every time you've hunted it's like you have really good encounters [01:01:00] like It's nice.

It's dude, that's sweet. That's what we, that's what we want. And then talking about how you hunt North, the Northwest 12, like you got some public land that you're hunting up there and doing things. You got like a family camp and I feel like you've gotten like really good the last few years of figuring out where deer are, like.

You as a hunter, like you're getting there. I'm like, dude, he's on to something. It's just a matter of time where you're gonna, you're gonna get a really big deer and granted, they have to be there to get them, but you're doing your part. Cause all the deer that I have down here, I've seen before, before they got this big, so you had to let them walk, and all the other ones, like that's part of the challenge and you eat tag soup because of it, but it is part of it.

So it's cool to see that. And . You hunted. You hunted. Last this week, how many times did you hunt this week? Just today. This morning, or did you hunt?

Tony Hill: Yeah, I went out this morning. Was all, yeah. When

Nate Rozeveld: did you see that buck making the scrape? What time was that? What was

Tony Hill: that? It was like last week, so October.

It was like the first week of the season, I think. Was it? But he was just like, it's a known scrape area that I know. Yeah.

Nate Rozeveld: It was light out and he's out there just doing his thing. Nice

Tony Hill: little six point. Solid [01:02:00] probably year and a half year old, Southern, like Southern Michigan, Northern Michigan is probably two and a half

Nate Rozeveld: exactly.

Good genetics. Yeah. So it's pretty cool. Like everyone should know by now, if you listen to my podcast, I love hunting the first two weeks of October, like I get after it pretty hard, like very smartly, like you have to have the right property, but. If you want to connect on a good deer, Michigan, do not be afraid to hunt 58 degrees out.

Granted there's certainly not all 80 to 75 degree days are created equal, but you can learn the property and get a kind of a gut feel for. When I missed that one deer, it was like 75 and humid, like no wind. And I was just like, it was going to be a good night and shot at him an hour and 20 minutes before dark.

So like you get, you got to learn that, but that's ties into this dog thing. Like you have to put so yeah, like you have to put so much effort into. Your hobby or whatever you're going to do, you put all this leg work into it. And then now, as you've done it for a few years, you have this bank of things to go back on and you you can go back and use those to help you out.

And that's just how [01:03:00] this whole hunting thing is, you

Tony Hill: know? Yeah. And I love it. I keep a tracking log of like date time of like my busiest days of the year. It's like first week in November. It's like usually anywhere between I'll give this away November three. So like November 7, 8, 9. Yeah.

Anywhere from like those few days are like usually my busiest days. It's like anywhere from the 2 from November 2nd to the 9th. I'm like in the woods. Every single morning, every single night. And you I think

Nate Rozeveld: the one that was it last year, you had a super busy day and that correlated with how many bucks I had in my trail cameras that day.

It was nuts. You're like, dude, I had so many calls and yeah, my cell cams and my SD cards. I looked back and I was like, you weren't like, I had all day movement of deer that day. So it's cool to tie into that.

Tony Hill: I keep, a lot of guys do just so I can see and I'm like, I'm trying to pick them.

I'm trying to be smarter where I'm like. I'm picking weather patterns or I'm like, Hey, it's this cold front. I'm going to go there. Cause I, [01:04:00] I don't have the time. I do have a lot of time. I'm taking like

Nate Rozeveld: three weeks off. Yeah, you have to distribute it evenly, like you don't, it's not like you can just focus, you're taking days off to track, you're taking days off to train or you're taking, whatever that may be.

You're going to run coyote dog. You do that. We didn't really get into that too much, but you run coyotes too. It's not like Tony's is yo, dude, all my attention is into shooting a deer with my bow. So you still have to be very strategic with what you attack. Yeah, my

Tony Hill: summer scouting has gone out the window.

I just do so much with the bear dogs and with the bear stuff that like, To kill big bucks in Michigan, you have to scout you around. There's no offense and I just can't do that anymore because I'm I have another hobby that I like more. If you want to,

if you want to kill big bucks in Michigan, public or private, some privates different, but there's a lot of effort. You got to put the time in there. I just don't have the time now to. I might get lucky, but I'm probably looking at a two and a half, three and a half year old [01:05:00] solid buck where that's going to be my goal compared to

Nate Rozeveld: year round guys.

You do that? Oh, you're going to be so bummed because I think it's realistic. I think you can get on those kind of a deer. But I think what you're trying to, the point you're trying to make is there's not a lot of four and a half or five year old big, like we're talking like 140, 150 inch bucks or bigger in Michigan.

So like you have to like. Find them and then if that's on public you find them they get to keep on them You know some private properties are just dynamite, but like I don't I would love to know the percentage of those properties I don't think there's a lot of them I think we just see a lot of them on social media because You have such a reach that you can you know, see the percentage like if you look on, mission buck pull You're like, oh my gosh Yeah, you're like if you really think about how many in a season You're really not that many, like for the amount of deer that are shot in Michigan.

Like it's really a small percentage. So yeah, you have to put a lot of effort and fortunately for me, like last couple of years, I was hunting and like eating tag soup and like watching some deer, like [01:06:00] I was putting a lot of investment in season for seasons ahead. And it almost paid off. Yeah. So you got to yeah, to be successful every year to have a target or have like multiple bucks to chase.

I would almost like not have to have a job, or you have to be, you

Tony Hill: have to be strictly devoted to one. I see guys out there. There's guys on Instagram I follow and I see and they put the work in and they kill the deer. And that's what happens. Like they always say like 10 percent of the guys kill like the biggest bucks.

Yep. Every year. Or however that saying goes, but it's true. Like the guys that are consistently putting in work and some of them you don't see on social media for that exact reason because they don't want you to. You don't want you to know. I know there's a lot of killers out there that aren't posing their deer.

I, yeah, I've talked

Nate Rozeveld: to a few people on some, so like for me, like a rabbit hunting, I love it because I can scout and right at the same time. And I've talked to a few people like, Oh yeah, right on the spot. And the one guy I was like, yeah, there's giant bucks there. And I was like, Yeah. What do you mean there's giant bucks there?

Are you messing with me? He's [01:07:00] Oh no, I know so and so done this. I've seen them back. These are older guys, so they're, they don't have social media. They talk about these bucks are shooting and so and so shot 10 years ago out of there and show me this picture. And I'm like, Holy moly, that's a giant deer.

And I got a neighbor guy that he, he does a lot of walking and he'll talk about how he'll walk all over. That's what he loves to do. He loves to walk on all the trails. Ghost town of deer and then he'll find one spot and he's like dude Loaded with deer sign like I see deer like all that.

So He's doing that as a hobby and he will go more days than now without seeing anything like Deerside. He walks in the snow, he walks all year. And like he's got a, and he does a lot of miles and he finally finds them and it's like a big deal when he finds it. So I can imagine a guy who's trying to do that's how much commitment you'd have to find.

Yeah. To try to target and locate them. So yeah, that's a good point. But just because we don't necessarily have that much time, I dedicate more time to hunting the deer hunting than you do because I don't have this dog hobby that you just are addicted to, but it is rewarding, but it does take [01:08:00] a big approach and doing that, but it can be done.

So I encourage everyone like, Hey man, like you shot a handful of year and a half old bucks, like what you were like. You were like doing it. You're like, dude, I feel like I'm going to let this one go. And then a week, this is years past month later, smash the deer. And you're like, dude, I couldn't help it.

It was so awesome. It's we can pair that deer to like other do your shot. That was like a top 3 percent of a buck you even shot. Yeah. So like you, the, now that box has been checked. So then you're like, I'm going to try to go up and do that. And that's just what I encourage is because I think it keeps you very involved.

Happy, like it's not and then you just get better who doesn't want their friends to become better hunters? I want you to be a better deer tracker. I want you to be a better, with your dogs and same goes for hunting and all that stuff too. Let's just all try to get better together.

Cause eventually we're going to be too old and we're not going to be able to get any better.

Tony Hill: The biggest thing is like passing the first one. Once you pass the first few, you're like, and you get so much more comfortable, just like you see them and like, all right, cool. And then you learn and then you watch that and you're like, Oh, what is he doing?

And how is he doing this? And where is he coming? Yes. And then you're like, all [01:09:00] right, now I can move 50, yards that way. And I'm closer and I know exactly where I'm going to be. Cause that's what I did last year. Set up, I did three, four observation sits. And then I moved in and I killed the buck.

That buck. Yeah. I was a sweet buck . That's what I was doing. Like you, you gotta, you see him. Yep. Then you go in one time I go in one time and I try and kill him. Yep. And then you did it. Yeah. and then you I got lucky. Yeah,

Nate Rozeveld: exactly. But you gave your yourself the opportunity to be lucky.

Yeah. That's another thing. It does take some luck, but you are in the right shoes for that okay. Are you blocking off days to hunt for yourself this year, or are you going to be just like free flowing? Are you like I'm hunting this week or are you doing that this year or

Tony Hill: what do you what's your plan usually?

like Thing that has stunk about like the dog tracking thing is like We do have family property up north that I would go and hunt a lot with my dad and my brothers and things like that but like I will pick one weekend in November and I'll go up there with my dad and my brothers and just strictly bow hunt.

Like a one [01:10:00] weekend, maybe a long weekend and I won't, my phone will blow up. I'll get 75 whatever phone calls in a weekend. Cause I'm not answering her. And I'll tell the guys I track with, Hey, I'm going to be up and I'll try and help out like up in that area. Like I'll kind of network with some guys and I'll be like, Hey, if you need something up here, I'll try and help.

But I'll pick one weekend where I'm like, I'm strictly going to be gone. Like I'm going to go hunting. And then I'll usually I'll pick depends. I go for gun season. Then I, we don't do a lot of tracks during gun season, but I'm like the first five days of gun season. I'll be out and then I'll pick a couple of days, I've figured out that now I can hunt a lot more in the morning than I can at night. Yep, because In the morning, I don't like if I don't I'll tell a guy like hey, I'll meet you at 10 Like I'll go out. I'll sit from 7 to 9 go home grab Fred and then head to the track. We're like my night sits my nice it's always get ruined cuz I'm like I'll end up going to a track and then I'll go I'll get another track and then by [01:11:00] the time I'm finished with the second track.

It's already like Three, four o'clock. And I'm like, I'm not going to get to hunt tonight. So I'm like, I'll just pick up another track or something. So it depends on how busy I am. Like some nights I'll try and like a good cold front. If you can bet your butt, I'm going to be, I'm going to be out there in the morning.

I'll try and sneak in early in the morning, but like night hunts have become harder just because if I start tracking or if like I end up an hour away, I'm not going to get your days done. So I'm like I try and I'll try and block off some time, but usually it's around that. Okay.

Nate Rozeveld: So if you've got a quick, before we close this out, if you've got like a quick little word of advice for what what's a big mistake you feel like guys are making in the

Tony Hill: archery game?

A hundred percent. It's always tracking too soon. Too soon. Always.

Nate Rozeveld: You hear that right here, guys. Wait, just

Tony Hill: wait. Always a hundred, it's, it always is

Nate Rozeveld: Like 30 minutes isn't long enough. An hour,

Tony Hill: two hours minimum. Unless you see the deer fall, like you see the deer fall, go ahead and get it, but man, or if your deer goes past 200 yards, like if you go [01:12:00] and track 200 yards and don't find your deer, There's a back out two three hundred ish that general there's a good chance You didn't you're either pushing it or you didn't hit what you think you did So like it just

Nate Rozeveld: makes me think about I think a lot of guys who listens i'm sure know Thp not in public on youtube.

I watched a video of Jake, he shoots a sweet deer in Iowa on the ground, hits it, he's hits it in the shoulder area, the deer runs off and it is like, it is not doing good. You're like, Oh, dude, that deer is cooked. Like awesome shot. Tips over in some grass. You think they give us some time, they watch for the deer when they're like, you know what, we're going to get over there and see if we can see him.

Cause they're like the sea of grass, those tall grass. He gets over there and a deer is still alive. And I'm like, how is that deer alive still? And he ended up having to shoot it again. Thankfully the deer was not alive enough that I was able to get up and run. You're as the hunter, you're like, dude, like that deer's cooked.

Like you watch that video, you're like, dude, maybe a little forward, but still right in the pump house, and that deer had a will to live. And if that [01:13:00] deer had just a little bit more. We'll live and they started pushing it and that deer ran for their hour Especially during the run. Yes.

Tony Hill: These bucks are gonna turn into zombies.

We're like You're gonna shoot double lung deer and they're gonna go three four hundred yards. Like it's just gonna happen Yeah, I've I get calls from guys every year and then we get to the deer and it's a double lung then it's at 400 yards You're like, dude, how is that? How and then these deer just go and go like a rut There's no heart.

There's more no deed animal. That's more determined to live than a mature White tail. Yeah, like not

Nate Rozeveld: with breed. I don't think I'm a

Tony Hill: planet. Yeah with like ladies on the mind things some of these deer do People wouldn't believe unless they've seen it and I've seen some crazy things where like deer I've seen perfect perfectly shot deer where you'd think Nick the bottom of heart deer goes two miles Or like you find your life I found your live 15 hours later that you would, if you did, if I send you the pictures, [01:14:00] you're like, no way.

Not possible. And it's yeah, 15 hours later, I jumped this deer. It ran a hundred more yards and dropped it.

Nate Rozeveld: So you're doing the right guys. Wait, let Tony saying, give it some time. Do your due diligence, do this. There's lots of other guys that are saying the same thing Tony saying here.

Let's wait as hunters do that part. And then good. Like you've told me, you told me all the time, dead deer don't move, and granted, if you like, you're sitting there and you hear coyotes start just going crazy. There's some things I was like, okay. If you see a coyote chasing a deer or you hear I'm like, maybe you need to go investigate.

There's some of those things, there's no one, we're not trying to preach let your deer go to waste which I mean it's not necessarily a waste because the nature is doing it's thing, but you

Tony Hill: know what I mean guilty now. So the thing is, like too, with coyotes so you got shoot a giant buck, you let it go 200 yards in bed, it dies.

That scent trail is 200 yards. So a coyote has to find that, just the 200 yard trail. So say you shoot a giant buck, you're like, oh I got shot at, but there's tons of coyotes [01:15:00] out here. I gotta find it tonight. I gotta find it tonight. So you go out there, you bump it out of its first bet. Then you bump it out of its second bet.

So now the trail is like Half mile or a mile long. So now that coyote has a mile long trail

Nate Rozeveld: to find. And coyotes got noses like dogs,

Tony Hill: Like they're dogs. So it just makes it that much easier for a coyote. If you push that buck a mile, now it's got a mile of scent laid out. Perpendicular to hit that.

Yeah. Or coyotes just got across that property compared to, if you let it go, whatever two, 300 yards, a coyote's got to find that two, 300 yard trail compared to a mile.

Nate Rozeveld: So the odds are not in your favor if they bump them in general, just the

Tony Hill: way it is. It's just that, and that's the biggest thing I've noticed.

Like just me telling family members or things like that is just wait, we go find it in the morning. It's usually 225, give or take a hundred yards.

Nate Rozeveld: Which is crazy to me we, oh man, the deers in that County, like that was always what we [01:16:00] thought growing up. And that's just not the case with all this data.

But no, dude, I appreciate you doing this today. You did give up a night of hunting. I think the elements weren't the greatest for a night hunt, but that's just what I'll say. So thanks for coming on. And yeah, anyone that is in this greater, this Kent County, north of Grand Rapids area, feel free to reach out to Tony.

If you need something, like I said, find it, Fred on Facebook and Instagram, do that and. You can reach out. You're good at answering stuff. So you can't like, obviously you're talking about your phone doesn't get blown up some days. So if he doesn't get back to you, that's probably what's going

Tony Hill: on.

But so yeah, if anybody wants to reach out, like usually it's, so I get I get flooded with calls, like people that want to train a tracking dog or things like that, like the biggest thing is like you, before you get the dog, before you do this. You got to think to yourself, am I going to be willing to give up hunting?

Like you're going to it's going to happen or going to be willing to work nights. You're basically 24, seven on call, like my phone rings, I'm going it's like being a nurse or being

Nate Rozeveld: first responder or whatever it is.

Tony Hill: You're on call [01:17:00] 24, seven, your phone rings. Sometimes you got to go now you can be the judge of when you want to go and your wife and your kids and things like that.

If you, the best time to ask is like in the spring where guys are like, we get a bunch of guys who are like, Oh, I want to help. I want to help. I want help. It's dude, the season's starting. Yeah. We're busy. We can't help train new people. If we're listening to happen January 1st. Yeah. This needs to happen January or June, July, August, September, May, April, contact somebody and say, Hey, will you set a line for me or will you show me the ropes or things like that?

And most guys are willing to help, but like you got to be honest with yourself if you're willing to put the work in because there's a lot of guys out there that are willing to help, but you got to make the effort. Like they're not doing it for you. My buddy, Alex, not a hunter. You just started hunting. He got into the tracking world, but like he messaged me on Instagram and I was like, Hey, I want to get into this.

I was like, all right, come to my house. I'll lay a track for you. [01:18:00] He drove an hour to my house, ran a track. I messaged somebody else. I was like, Hey. This kid's willing to put the work in, he wants to do it, lay a line for him. Like one of our higher up guys ran a line for him, passed it, and now he's on his fourth year of tracking.

He's one of the hardest working trackers there is out there. But he's willing to put the, you gotta be willing to drive an hour or drive two hours or drive to the nearest guy and put the work in to get the dog ready to track. Because it's a 50 50 thing, you have to learn. And you have to have the dog learn and you Yeah,

Nate Rozeveld: just you just gotta experience the time.

There's no

Tony Hill: shortcuts. There's no shortcuts. You

Nate Rozeveld: you can't even if your dog is amazing Yeah, there's no shortcuts because there's so much effort like I said when my dog you gave me some pointers It was like morning and night I was doing stuff before we know you're doing a track when you get home from work And then you do a separate track you let it sit all day And then before work you're going out with a dog try to do like this is a reason this isn't oh I did that once or [01:19:00] twice you did 20 or 30 times Yeah, you're just doing this for days and then there's other things you got to do then you gotta get the dog interested then you gotta Understand how to read body language.

And then it's okay, you got to make sure the dog's not trailing you. So you're like, you can just go back and forth and you have to find a deer leg or something, there's all this effort that has to go in to do it. So if you're serious about that, like you said, gut check yourself. Are you committed to the cause?

Yeah. Then reach out to these guys. Cause they're going to help you. They want to help. Everybody cannot do it for you, but just make sure, it's not we're not talking like a new year's resolution here where you know what? Yeah. I think I'm going to lose 20 pounds. So if you're not committed, you ain't losing 20 pounds.

Like that's the thing you have to get through and do that. The thing is, these

Tony Hill: are working dogs. So and you also have to pick a dog you want to live with. Yeah. Cause like guys run dash hounds. There's guys run tackles, guys run bloodhounds, guys run hounds, catahoulas, you name it.

You have to pick a dog labs that fits your lifestyle. Yes. And that dog has to work. If it doesn't work, it's going to be hell. I'm just not, I

Nate Rozeveld: dude, if you have [01:20:00] a high strung dog that does not get to get, do his thing. Oh, it was the worst.

Tony Hill: The sad thing is these dogs are just going to end up in the shelter or on Facebook for sale.

Hey, I see it all the time. I bought this dog. It's a year old. We didn't put the time in to train it. I thought it was going to be your tracking dog. Now it's up for sale. And it's you have to be honest with yourself before you get the dog. Hey, am I going to put the work in? Because if you're not, that's just a dog that's gonna get, it's sad.

Nate Rozeveld: It's ruined. It's like the fullest potential. Yeah, and they can make

Tony Hill: great pets. I'm not saying that.

Nate Rozeveld: Yeah, it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be a tracking dog. But, these hunting dogs are active dogs. You have to my dog.

Tony Hill: Yeah, my, Fred is hell. From January to like August and Helen will even admit like my wife, like these past few weeks, he's so tired.

He's so easy. Like he does he'll go home and he just sleeps all day. But like from January, when [01:21:00] January is the worst month of the year. Cause he just turns into an ass. Cause it's dude, we were tracking every day. And now he's just yeah, I'm not doing anything.

Nate Rozeveld: I'm gonna and they're smart, intelligent dogs.

So they get in trouble and they, yeah, they're I don't, I, they like to be a little a holes all the time. They're just like, yeah, they just, Oh, I've been good for three days, but I haven't done enough. So now I'm going to destroy everything or now I'm going to do this or, Oh. That shoe that I've walked by a thousand times.

I'm gonna choose today to destroy it. Yeah for no reason I'm just gonna destroy it because I hate you because I've been stuck inside too much that's how I feel like they are You know, but no, so yeah be committed and I think that's a good thing to end on because yeah to do You know to do this.

It's a commitment. You've put a lot of effort into it That's the same goes for chasing deer in Michigan to you. That's not committed to the cause Yeah, you can get lucky but you know if you're gonna do this Like how I like to hunt, a lot of my friends who are successful, like you just mobile hunting game a thing, or like just bouncing around, finding properties.

It's a lot of effort to go through, you don't have to be special. You [01:22:00] don't have to be like this crazy gifted athlete You don't have to be like that. Anyone can do this With determination and with effort and it's totally worth it when you walk up and you're there your dogs are Training a bear like, that little thing is worth it when my dogs circle a rabbit right back to us and Even if you shoot or not, it's okay, all that work and training is worth it.

You find this hunter's deer buried in this river and you're out there up to your nipples in cold water, getting it like that all comes full circuit for you. It's totally worth it. So yeah, go through, put the effort in and you get to enjoy creation outside the whole time while doing it.

There's a lot worse things you can do to yourself. So thanks Tony for doing this, man. Appreciate

Tony Hill: it. Oh, just go download the Michigan Deer Tracking Network app. It's in the app store. It should be for Google and or. Android apple, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, and then it's it makes it so much easier take advantage of the resources We have it links you right to the hunters facebook page.

You can go right to texting right to calling Like you click on their name and it'll give you their phone number. You can immediately [01:23:00] call them. Like it makes it so much

Nate Rozeveld: easier. So you don't need to put the Facebook post. I need a tracker. Yes. So do the app guys. All right. Thanks man. Have a

Tony Hill: good one. Yep.

You too.

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