Habitat Solutions, Adaptive Management and Food Plots

Show Notes

In this episode, Jon Teater (Whitetail Landscapes) and Jake Ehlinger (Habitat Solutions 360) discuss food plots, property management, design, maintenance, and new property layout techniques. Jake explains his no till, food source options and how to reshape your property based on the neighborhood. Jake discusses his neighborhood and how to approach changes on a yearly basis. Jake's adaptive management style and his ability to be consistent and grow more tonnage per acre, allows him to pull in more deer and be less susceptible to over browse.

Jake discusses his current food plot regime, and breaks down why this is the better late season food plot option when trying to manage a larger deer herd. Jake details his property layout and how deer congregate on his property when he creates “green plots” and how his food plots will outcompete other options like soybeans. Jake discusses a combination of soybeans and corn and what ratio he plants each in to get maximum results. Jake provides an option for annual plants and other options you have for late season food.

Jake explains his neighborhood situation and what his neighbors are doing from a harvest to food perspective and how this impacts his property. Jake discusses the importance of his observation treestand  and how you can observe much more through your own eyes as compared to trail cameras.  Jake explains how trail systems he lays out will lead deer through his property for better hunting opportunities. Jon discusses the importance of observation data and why we should not ignore this information when evaluating deer movement. Jake explains his observation data and how bucks use cover and how deer move based on densities and wind direction.  Jake explains how deer can avoid trail cameras and sometimes our reliance on trail cameras can be fraught with lack of or misinformation. Jon and Jake discuss how deer are individualistic and how data from trail cameras and observation lead to more information on deer behavior. Jon explains a strategy to pull a mature buck onto your property and the bits of information he relies on to ensure deer are going have increased interest in a property.  

Jake discusses changes over time and how he handles the maintenance and improvement side of his property as succession occurs. Jon explains what we need to consider as we are making changes on our property as we go through seral stages over time. Jake explains a recent change he has made to his property to ensure deer utilization is high. Jake discusses normal maintenance and specific changes that may be needed to ensure bedding areas remain permanent fixtures in a deer’s movement.  Jake explains how to cut a focal area on his property through creating walls of cover, travel corridors, open and closed areas in the best locations. Jake continues to improve his and his client’s properties through these detailed methods of cutting and how he emphasizes diversity on the landscape.

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Show Transcript

Jake Ehlinger: [00:00:00] Welcome to Maximize Your Hunt, the podcast dedicated to those who want the most out of their hunting property. This podcast explores land management habitat improvement and hunting strategies that will help you maximize your time in the field. Follow along as industry professionals that live and breathe whitetail deer, share their secrets to success.

And now the founder of Whitetail Landscape. Your host, John Teeter.

John Teater: Hi, I'm John Teeter, Whitetail Landscapes. This is Maximizer Hunt. Welcome back everybody. Little Housekeeping and I hope that everyone paid attention to the last podcast, that solo podcast that I did. I talked a little bit about giving away stuff, and I'm gonna give away hats every couple months. What I'd ask is if you go in and give a five star review, that would be a five star review plus comments and those comments.

I leverage those. Some people have [00:01:00] already emailed me comments and I really appreciate. The feedback. And that's, to me, it's, it's not just motivating, it's inspirational. Um, and I really appreciate everyone listening to this podcast. I think we have some of the best guests on here. I think these are the folks that are the, the top, at the top and, uh, real practical, knowledgeable folks that have been able to change.

People's visions and aptitude. And in this capacity, I have a, one of my favorite casts back on is Jake Ellinger. And if you remember, Jake and I have talked all sorts of different topics up to this point, and he's got a lot of things to share on this podcast today. So let me just get him on the line. Hey Jake, how are you doing?

Jake Ehlinger: Hey, I'm doing real well, John. Good. Well,

John Teater: what were you, what were you up to today? You uh, we talked earlier, you've been busy.

Jake Ehlinger: Yeah, I was actually trying, there's a. Uh, a weather front coming in, uh, later, late afternoon, early evening. So I was out, uh, working some fields and I have, uh, [00:02:00] burned down a little bit with some herbicide.

Uh, and I'm taking, uh, I'm taking soybeans out of production and going into perennials. Uh, Chicory clover, uh, that, you know, alfalfa, that sort of thing. So I've always tried to take certain areas where I grow, uh, a particular food source for white tails for 3, 4, 5 years and then rotate that. And that also allows me to, uh, Absolutely, you know, no, uh, get rid of tilling, you know, so there's no tilling, there's no herbicide use for the most part, uh, other than the initial, uh, just getting everything ready and getting it planted.

And then, you know, kind of the reverse that areas where I've had perennials, I'm gonna go into some, uh, different food sources because it's time to get rid of some of the competition that's moved in over. Over the years and that sort of thing. So that's what I was doing and I, I lost track of time a little bit, but I'm glad we finally got back

John Teater: together.

Yeah. And I'm [00:03:00] gonna ask you a, a big question and, um, you know, I know you've kind of evolved your philosophy and your property over the past, you know, several years and, and beyond. And you look at, you know, globally what's going on Your, your entire eco region, or at least your localized region, your, your microclimate, who's doing what, you know, who's, uh, who's screwing this field up and planting the wrong thing and not doing cover crops.

And then, you know, of course you're trying to think about food availability. What, what is, uh, from a, a macro scale, thinking about big picture, your environment, where you're working, I know you've got some mixed ag around you. How has that changed your strategy with your food plot set up? Because I, I'm, I'm assuming it's, it's evolved over the past few years with who's been in your neighborhood, who's been doing what, and have you increased your food sources or decrease them, increase your cover?

How, how have you kind of approached that on your own

Jake Ehlinger: property? Um, yeah. You know that, that is an interesting question because you're right, it changes, you know, and different farmers or, uh, [00:04:00] properties change hands and there's a new, uh, a new family, uh, farming, you know, uh, one of the larger farms in the area.

And, uh, somebody that used to plant, uh, uh, there's a farm, uh, just to the west of me that. For 25 years, they were really good at rotating, you know, they'd have wheat one year and followed by, uh, soybeans the next, and then corn and you, you know, and, and they'd, and they'd always have cover crops of some, they'd have winter rye or maybe winter wheat.

You know, they were real good at that sort of thing. And, and there's been a. Uh, some family dynamic and changing the hands. And so that's not happening. Uh, no cover crops on that property anymore. Um, kinda almost exclusively, probably out of the four to four to 500 acres of tillable that they have. It's probably been soybeans, uh, just continuously now for the last, uh, half a dozen years.

And, uh, And [00:05:00] then, you know, uh, there's other people that have moved in. I, there's a, a, a new guy leasing ground to the south of me, and he's changing it up. He, he's now, he's rotating, it'll be corn one year. It looks like this year, that's what he's doing. He's putting in corn again. He'll put in beans. He'll put in, uh, wheat, uh, he'll run a cover crop after wheat.

That's what he did last year. He had, uh, he, there was 150 acres of wheat across the road and then, you know, mid-July after they pick it, he went in there and, uh, put in an annual red clover. So I had 150 acres of clover right across the road from me. So that changed a little bit for the deer dynamics, you know.

Oh yeah. And, uh, but basically it's, uh, you know, for the most part, Things are, are fairly well taken care of. There's a lot more no-tilling going on than there, than there ever has. And, and there's good reason for that. I mean, you know, hey, it makes good sense. The no-till soybeans and, uh, you know, [00:06:00] some of the ground around here is, uh, notoriously.

Uh, you know, packed clay. Mm-hmm. Uh, a mixture of rocks from baseball to football size, you know, mixed in. So when they plant corn, some, you know, because that's a deeper, uh, a lot of times they'll do a minimal pillage up on top and then, then run their corn planters in there. But, uh, but because of that and the fact that.

Everybody's got good equipment. When it comes harvest time, all the food's gone. You know, so it's, it's forced me to, to grow more food and, and, you know, more tonnage per acre and be a lot more cognizant of that and cover crops because, uh, the deer kind of flock here in the fall, uh, because of the cover and the food.

And, uh, they eat me outta a house at home. That's just, that's just what happens. Cuz I have a, you know, I have a transient herd of deer that show up from late November through mid-January, [00:07:00] February, and then they take off and leave again. You know? Um, so it's, uh, it, it's, you know, it's always changing, I'll say that.

So, so I'm tr I've got new plans this year to try and battle that a little bit. You know, the print, uh, producing more perennials and getting away from some of the grains, uh, because they're so, uh, So deer density dependent, you know, soybeans are great unless you got a hundred deer in your field every night.

Yeah. That sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So, not that I had a hundred, but you know, uh, Half of that mount for sure. There was a time, you know, and so they don't last very long and that sort of thing. I

John Teater: want to know more about your property. So you've got approximately 70 acres thereabouts, and Yes, within this, you know, how much are you actually dedicating to planted food approximately?

Jake Ehlinger: Um, I'm gonna say about eight and a half to 11 acres. Okay. Um, and, and that will cover, you know, [00:08:00] everything from micro food plots to fall, you know, certain areas are, uh, you know, seasonably wet, but they dry out in August. And so those will be, you know, just, uh, cool season annual plots, you know, uh, exclusively just in the fall.

And, and then they get wet in the spring again, you know, that, that sort of thing. But yeah, they're, I'm in that eight and a half to 11 acres.

John Teater: Okay. And just your, yeah, no, that's, that's, that's good. I think that's good data for everybody. Just in your circumstance, based on your environment and you know, what you've identified, obviously prob based on the terrestrial ground, the type of ground that you're working with that have the balance of the covering food probably in concert.

Right. And then, yeah, I, I guess the question I have is, so your strategy to deal with these densities of deer that are transient, I mean, they're localized, but they, they tend to probably, uh, Jump into your property at, at a higher interval. Come, uh, come late season. What type of food sources are you gonna put on your property to, to consider kind of that number of deer [00:09:00] factor that you're dealing with at this point?

Jake Ehlinger: Um, I'm, this year I'm putting a big emphasis on a clover chicory mix, which is, which is heavy in the chicory. It's, uh, 60% chicory, 40% clover. And, uh, it's, it's a really interesting blend accident. I, I, I came up with this blend, man. I, I'm trying to think, it's been a long time ago. It could be 20. Maybe more than 20 years ago when I was experimenting with food plots and you couldn't buy a, you know, there was a lot of, uh, different companies out there selling, uh, and, and getting into the food plot seed business, but not many of 'em that had any amount of chery, you know, at all.

You know, a 3%, 4%, you know, 7%. That was about as high as you'd find in a lot of these clover blend mixes. So I was, I was finding that deer had a, a real neck for chiri, especially in that, uh, late October, November, early December timeframe when, [00:10:00] you know, we'll get some cold weather, but a lot of the ground, you know, thaws and it's covered and we don't have a lot of snow cover until we get into later December.

And because of the congregation of the deer, um, they just, they just, you know, all those mouths to feed. And they just eat, eat neat. And it's also a great way to move deer from one location to another when you have green that is constantly growing and replacing versus uh, say summer annuals like peas and soybeans that do a really good job of feeding deer until we get frost.

Okay? And once you get a frost, they, they quit growing or, or they have a maturity date and they've come to that and they've turned brown and quit growing anyways. And you know, once the deer consume what's there, there's nothing to replace it. Okay. Where I have found with this chicory clover that deals with cold temperatures really well, and even under heavy browse conditions, it continues to, uh, produce and it just out.

Out produces anyways. When [00:11:00] you look at a tonnage per acre from, you know, uh, spring green up all the way till late December when it's finally getting cold and we're getting snow

John Teater: cover now for the seasons or periods beyond kind of its utilization that, that the plants we were just talking about, you know, I'm, I'm assuming you have a preference for corn in some capacity and obviously that that comes with tillage issues Of course.

And, and dealing with. Obviously, uh, it's difficult to book covers within the corn because of the plant roast spacing, et cetera. What have you found to be kind of your best, maybe most resilient late season food source? I, I wanna say beyond the woody material, because we, we, it's hard to put an emphasis on that because it's really critical, but we're talking about planted food, right?

What do you kinda pick out in that realm?

Jake Ehlinger: You know what I, when I do grow corn, I've, and I have done this for. You know, 20 plus years, maybe 25 or 30 years, I guess if I, if I roll back and, and look [00:12:00] through my records. But I have been mixing corn and soybeans together. Mm-hmm. Okay. And I've had real good luck with it and over the years I've, I've broadcast.

Corn and soybeans, uh, corn at a much lower rate, you know, soybeans at a higher rate because, you know, corn can shade out your beans pretty quick. I've also broadcasted soybeans and then ran a, uh, two row corn planter that I borrowed from, you know, a good buddy of mine through it. Had real good luck with that and had the row spacing and everything and, uh, you know, it's, it's a good.

Late season draw it. It also, uh, it has a secondary cover to it. You know, it's tall deer can walk into it, feel some security. Um, and it's a high energy producer. You know, the thing with corn, there's really, there's no protein. There's not a lot of, uh, um, you know, I got a buddy of mine that says, you know, the, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

So, so it, you know, as it gets colder and the energy demands for deer increase, [00:13:00] it takes a lot out of the deer. To consume corn and digest it if they don't have something else to go along with it. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yep. So, so, but it is, uh, it, it really helps good with holding in it and it, it does some things to, to heavy clay soil.

Um, corn, you know, has a, has a big heavy root and it'll open up the soils. And so it can do things when you grow it every, you know, every three to five years, uh, to your soil composition when you're trying to improve it all the time. That is beneficial.

John Teater: Yeah, that aeration is critical for, for the plant life and the future plant life.

So. All right. Let me just fast forward ahead a little bit more. So your late season food choices, at least with your hurt and your scenario. What, what if, what do you, what's your go-to this year? What's your plan? Um,

Jake Ehlinger: this year it's going to be, uh, you know, I'll definitely have, you know, Nebraska's cool season annuals, winter Rye.

Okay. Uh, those are gonna be in all my [00:14:00] annual. Plot locations and the edges of my soybeans and, uh, things like that where the Deere brow your beans hard. I'll go in there and oversee all the, you know, the first 20 to 50 yards of my soybeans real, you know, timely in front of a rain and that sort of thing.

Uh, so definitely, you know, turn ups, radishes. Uh, Winter rye, crimson clover. Those are real go-tos. But, uh, you know, if, if you can have a good stand of soybeans, you know that that can be a lot. You know, that's a lot of pod production. It's a lot of pods and, and it's also, you know, real good food. And over the years, uh, It has been my go-to, but my deer herd is, uh, increasing, uh, because I if, uh, when it comes to any of the local dynamics, uh, one of the largest farms to the west of me, um, is not, um, is not harvesting, do like they used to.

And, and right [00:15:00] now the, the dough harvest is not existent and it's a very large farm. Uh, it's over a square mile. So, you know, when you're talking about, you know, something in excess of 600 acres and there's not one analyst deer being harvested, you can imagine the problem that that's, uh, when you're living right next door to it.

John Teater: Oh boy. So, you

Jake Ehlinger: know, I was on a, a major dough kill last year and, uh, You know, every, I will say every deer, every dough I killed was a mature dough, four and a half and older, and that was my goal. And, and two of those were some nervous Nellies that I had marked just how they look. And I, you know, they got their markings and the one had a.

Had a big, uh, scar across the base of its ear where, who knows from a hoof or what, but, you know, had been showing up on that deer for the last three years. You could always recognize her on her left ear. And, uh, but oh man, she was one of those that would stand there and let 30 deer walk by her. She would stand in the cover and she just watched everything, you know, [00:16:00] smelled everything.

She never missed anything. And, uh, And, you know, I targeted that deer and had two chances to kill her. And one night I couldn't because there were so many other deer up close to her. Uh, you know, I wasn't able to just, you know, I didn't wanna hit one deer and wound another one, you know, kind of thing. Uh, but uh, this year I did get into some, you know, pretty good, uh, dough harvest.

And just, I spent a lot of time watching and observing. I, I moved a, uh, banks blind into a location, uh, last June that I hunted out of this year, a half a dozen times. Man, I was able to, it's just an ideal place to observe a lot of activity on my property and not quite 360 degrees, but in 320 degree view.

Okay? I can see deer groups. Multiple dear groups and what they're doing, and it was really cool to watch. But, you know, the most important thing that I noticed was all the food they were consuming.

John Teater: Yeah, yeah. [00:17:00] You know,

Jake Ehlinger: because they just don't stop, which is, it's, it's all good, you know, you know that term. Be careful what you wish for.

Uh, But, uh, uh, so this year I'm really hoping that the perennials, which produce a lot of tonnage during the year, during the summer, in fact, you know, they produce tonnage so well, that, uh, often you have to go out there with a, a, a brush hog and mow 'em in the, you know, like in the. Early August to mid-August timeframe and then they'll, you know, they'll come back, you know, by October 1st, and it's gonna be in that mid-September through through October when the transition starts and they start hitting those clovers and cries really heavy like they do in the spring and that sort of thing, you know.

But right now there's green everywhere, so there's no need for them to hit the perennial. So I can plant perennials at this time of the year and not have it over

John Teater: browsed real heavy. Yeah, that's, um, I think it's a lot of information for people to kind of digest, and I think you're [00:18:00] taking this. I don't wanna say, you know, you're taking this mezzo filter approach to your property and then you're finite fineing it and you're coming up with specific recommendations and thoughts based on this observational, and we, I remember having the conversation with me last time, you had in place this stand for observational purposes just to kind of get.

A better understanding of things. So just one thing, your camera picks up information. It's another thing seeing it, taking the time to assess it, and that really is as important as anything else. You can go observe, you know what the deer are browsing on it and have that information. You can physically see it.

It's a nice thing to kind of. Connect the dots beyond just observing the, the plant life and seeing them eat those plants. And it just, you know, it gives you kind of a better idea of what's going on in the landscape. And so that fine filter approach I think is really important for people to consider. Um, it,

Jake Ehlinger: it is, you know, and, and I know one of the things, uh, when you contacted me there a week or so ago about trying to set up today, Is I, I wanted to, and [00:19:00] this ties in to this whole, you know, changes in food and I've also got a very specific food plot, trail design that moves deer from two major bedding areas into multiple food sources and puts them at places that I want them to be when it comes down to harvest opportunities.

Okay? Mm-hmm. Okay. And it, it is, uh, it is such a strategic plan that I've put in and I've put a lot of time into, into, you know, getting things ready so that I can plant. Uh, movement trails, you know, so, uh, it, you know, with lots of cover and, uh, you know, as, as things mature and as, and as a landowner, you've owned it and you've managed it, and you've done a lot of different types of things.

Everything from timber stand improvement, which creates early successional growth, and then working on food plots and screening. Then I was fortunate enough to, to put that observation stand up, which I was talking to you about last time. We did a. Podcast and boy did it. You know, out of all the things I've learned owning [00:20:00] this property, it would be that change right there that taught me some really valuable lessons about dear movement and dough, family groups, and immature bucks and mature bucks.

And, uh, you know, you think, you know, you think, you know, until you find out you don't know. Okay? It is just, uh, a, you know, learning, uh, The habits of these animals and why they do what they do and, and different, you know, weather conditions and how that affects their movement. Just very, very, uh, I would say it's very humbling because, uh, I've been real successful at what I've done o over the years on this property.

And to see some of the things I was able to witness last fall and, and into, uh, early winter in our late season when I was doing the, the tail end of my dough harvest. Uh, was just, you know, uh, it definitely was one of those years for the books where I kept a lot of notes and, you know, took a lot of pictures and video and, and filed it [00:21:00] away in my journal.

And boy is this, is this different than what I thought? You know, I,

John Teater: I wanna, I wanna pull in this thread a little bit and I hope maybe we can give some insight into some of your observational data because I think a lot of times, We're, we're of the mindset, a lot of people listening these different podcasts to listen to the NDA or, you know, the science podcasts out there.

Um, the university podcast and they're very science based observational data in, in its own light. Is about as sciencey as you all get. And, and the reason I wanna say that to people is I know there's been information and science put out there over the years that people have said, oh, you know, staking a claim to that as being, you know, the end all be all, but not understanding there's other elements that may or may not impact.

That occurrence. And if you're able to kind of understand the variability in deer and what they prefer, what they don't prefer, how they move in the landscaper, all the idiosyncrasies of just their environments, and capitalize on that and [00:22:00] understand it at a finer level. The observational data could be more, I think, helpful than even the science bits that that seem to be out there.

And, um, I put a lot of clout into people that can take, you know, real observational information and start to apply it because they see the consistency in it. And you know, that's just as important as a scientific literature that's been released on GPS data. The other piece of it is these, these finite, like very.

Filtered managed properties that, that, that are, I guess, emphasizing key habitat elements relating that to deer movement, et cetera. Those environments are, are going to be different than big wood settings that are not managed in the same manner. So you kind of gotta have a, a, a lens to look at this. This bit of data.

So I'm, I'm interested, and I didn't mean to go on a monologue there, but I have my opinions on science-based data and real observational data and hypothesis that are gained from those and, and people [00:23:00] with a, a kind of fine eye for things based on their experience and applying that. And, uh, people don't get away from that because that's meaningful in, in the scheme of things.

And I don't think science has it, has it, right? A lot of times what they don't know in science, uh, a lot of times plague plagues their information. So, off my high horse here, Jake thing that I want to focus on right now is what did you learn? What did you learn from some of the information that you saw?

What are some key s for

Jake Ehlinger: you? You know, um, I'll tell you, I learned some, uh, pretty interesting. Movement patterns. You know, when we have cameras, and I don't care if you have three cameras and we'll use my property as three cameras that cover 70 acres or 12 cameras, there's a lot of missing links between those locations of cameras.

Okay. And, you know, we, we make assumptions that deer travel from point A to point B, and then they go to point to C and D and E and F, and oh yeah, you know, I get him over here. Uh, [00:24:00] You know, I say if it's an antler buck, I get him over here, you know, three out of the seven days a week on this camera. But boy, these, these two cameras over here, I get him almost every day and sometimes multiple times a day.

So, you know, this might, this has got to be his pattern, so to speak. And I learned an awful lot about a shooter buck that I had on the property last year and then, and also a, a, a real nice young deer. I nicknamed him the G2 buck because he was just, you know, he was a horse of a body and he had really nice long G2 s for a two year old.

But I was able to observe how these deer moved around the property, how they used cover, and how they related. To what side of the cover? They would move depending on, do density groups and wind direction and you know, and I would say I feel 75% sure that I'm on to why they did what they [00:25:00] did. Okay. And then I think another year of, you know, uh, Similar, uh, weather conditions and then seeing and, and then verifying those movements, I'll say, yep.

I, I absolutely knew the buck was gonna come down on this east side, and that's because the wind is, is, is slightly northeast and he's trying to get away from those dough groups that are feeding over in this easterly end of this food source. Okay. And, you know, there's times he wants to be around 'em, but there's other times he just soon not be around them.

And, and you know, I think there's a lot of myths out there about, oh, you know, if you've got those, the bucks are just gonna hug around these dough and, and of course during the breeding season, that's so true. But man, there's other times they just wanna be alone. Okay? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and that was, that's what I was able to determine and, and, um, one of the best examples I have is I was able to observe a shooter book.

A really nice mature deer and he was at the time making the [00:26:00] scrape and working the edge of a food source. Uh, there was a couple of younger bucks. In and out of there. But at the time, he was by himself and I thought, oh man, the direction he's going, he's not 20 yards from one of my cameras. He's gonna walk right in front of that camera.

And then he was, he was heading in an easterly direction because of the northeasterly winds that we had. And I, and I, you know, just, you just, when he disappears and you don't see him, you say, okay, he's going through that group of conifers. Now he is gonna break out. Into all those areas that I've got hinge cut and early succession and, and I've also got some wetlands interspersed there.

And I go, he is gonna head to, you know, one of those two different bedding areas. And when he does, I've got four different cameras, I'm gonna get all these pictures of him and it's really gonna be cool cause I got video of him making the scrape and he avoided every one of those fricking cameras. Hmm. You know, and, and so it's, it's definitely made me rethink using cameras.

Yeah. It's because I think cameras [00:27:00] are, is, you know, we talk about hunting pressure depending where you're at. And I, you know, and I, and it's not like I'm Mr. Stink and I'm not using Red Glow cameras. I'm using the best of the best, you know, dark Ops and I'm using black flash. And I'm using cell cameras, not like I'm going in there every week or two weeks and, and disturbing it.

And you know, I just learned an awful lot. And this deer was such a cool deer. Cause I had, I'd spent so much time with him and. Then, you know, to make matters worse, he decided to spend an awful lot of time very close to my yard. Of course. Oh, of course

John Teater: of, yeah, course.

Jake Ehlinger: Yep. There he goes. Yeah, there he is.

Yeah. He said his camouflage, he said, Nope, back. Guess I can come up along the edge, the yard and make all the scrapes and rub all these trees. And, uh, uh, you know, just,

John Teater: just very cool. Well, you know, the one thing I wanna just point out on, and this two things. One, I just think of your train and, you know, [00:28:00] I'm in a very hilly train environment.

It's really difficult to kind of g gain that observational data. As a similarity, as a comparable. The other piece of it is thinking about how Deere have these patchwork linkages. So you know, their movement patterns are precise. You know, they're doing things for a reason, and every deer is individualistic.

And then it's recognizing how they interact with other deer. And, you know, some deer are gonna be more preferential to maybe be around Adele herd as compared to other deer. You know, they're, they're all indifferent and d and similar in the same way. And it's recognizing their, their differences in similarities.

And to that point, you're collecting observational data to recognize their social patterns and movements and preferred linkages in an area to connect. You know, this particular purpose and being in this area versus that purpose. And we think, like from a Habitat side, oh, we're gonna define all that. Well, oh yeah.

You know, that, we know that's Im impractical. Yeah. You

Jake Ehlinger: know, and we are, I I I love the fact that you use that term, you know, individual basis because, [00:29:00] uh, there's been a, you know, there's been a handful of, of good deer biologists that talk about managing the deer herd, but you're gonna have specific deer with, with.

Particular personalities. And I will say this particular buck had his own personalities, his own, his own movement, uh, patterns, you know, and, uh, so he had his way that he moved around the property and it was, you know, it was a, it's been a really neat learning curve because, you know, when they're younger, they aren't as, uh, cautious.

And you know, when, when he got into that four and a half and five and a half year old class, He was extremely cautious about every step he took, and he was for the most part. Quite antisocial. Okay. And, and it's the second deer on this property. I've been able to observe and notice those kinds of behaviors where, uh, you know, as they transition from that two to three year old, they're, they're not as visual as, they, definitely not near as visual as they were at two.

And then when they transferred to [00:30:00] four, they'd like, they become this lone zombie. Okay. Just, just by themselves. Um, you know, not running with any other group of deer. Uh, yes. They'll sometimes be in a food source and there are some different age classes of bucks and different dos and funds, but they're always kind of.

They've got an equal distance between every animal around them. Okay. And so you can just tell that they, they, that, that is specific, they're keeping that distance, uh, a, a away from deer because that's what they choose. Okay. And, uh, you know, I, I learned very similar traits about certain dough groups last year as well.

I, I had a couple of dough groups that I was watching and it was really neat to see how they spent a lot of time staying away from each other instead of being so competitive, which I've seen in the past these two groups just stayed away from each other and tried not to meet [00:31:00] up close in food sources.

You know, they, uh, it was evidently they didn't like one another, so they just, they just stayed away from each other and reduced conflict that way. So, uh, you know, who knows why the deer make these decisions, but you know, like you say, this observational data is, it really is scientific data because at the end of the day, what are we all doing?

The habitat manipulation and. And trying to hunt the wind and watch the, you know, watch every, you know, the, the weather conditions and the high pressure. We're trying to put ourselves in a position to get a shooting opportunity at whatever our target deer is. And if there's anything that, that to me, teaches me more information, it's, it's that observational data because you're getting a really good example.

You know, you might be in the same location. Twice in a month under similar conditions and watch particular deer do exactly the same thing. You go, okay. They don't come across [00:32:00] down this edge like I thought they did, you know? Yeah. Yeah. They eventually end up in front of this camera, but they got a pretty interesting route.

There's no straight lines in their movement. Okay,

John Teater: you, you bring up a topic and I think, well, we gotta get to the, the stuff that we wanted to talk to about today, but you bring up another little topic that I think is, is, uh, critical and it's taking that observation data and applying it. And then, you know, I've had a chance over the past couple years, like I'm focused on one particular deer this year.

I don't know if he's dead or alive yet. And, uh, I made cutting decisions specifically to kill this deer though. I'm sorry, when I say this, I meant I'm, I'm manipulating the landscape in a way where he's gonna be more preferential to one particular bedding area that I had not cut in. I cut it in. Yeah, just recently for him.

Now I'm waiting. I'm gonna see if he uses it. I'm actually gonna go back. I'm gonna cut a little bit more. He should be showing up here in about the next three weeks, and he'll do a random pattern through the property. Um, they flow in at a certain mo. You know, I, I understand the intervals of movement on my property [00:33:00] based upon historical use, and then I build around that interest.

So I actually will cut at a certain time of interval throughout the summer. To create that attraction in certain areas because I know what their preferences are gonna be from food source. And by the way, treetops on the ground usually trump any food source in, in the natural environment that, uh, that I can plant.

So, you know, I take advantage of that on the landscape. So I, I think the next piece of this is you're building around an individual deers movement in order to kill, you know, him or in this case, maybe it's a doe group for that matter. Her. And so thinking, thinking you can do that on the landscape's feasible.

I mean, I, I've done this personally. And I can tell you the pride that I've gotten has been through the roof. Maybe it's made a big head, but I think the reality of it is you can do stuff on your landscape to get individual deer to do things that they may not normally do otherwise. So, oh, yeah, yeah,

Jake Ehlinger: absolutely.

You know, and, uh, not only have I done it on my own, you know, I've had, you know, at this point, you know, dozens if not hundreds of clients [00:34:00] contact me and say, Man, you know, I had this target buck and, and that was my goal, was to get this target buck. And by the way, here's the picture. You know, he, you know, he scored this and he, and he weighed these many pounds dressed.

And, and, and by the way, he went, he went right down the travel corridor, just like in the plan, you know? And it's like, yeah, it's so cool when you can do all those things, because sometimes they follow the script really, really well. Right, right. And, uh, Sometimes, right? I, I had this characteristic, uh, in my previous life when I was a mechanical engineer in high speed automation.

I would always tell the plant managers, give me your, give me the one thing that you, that no one's ever been able to make work. That's the, that's the one I want. I don't want the easy stuff. I want the impossible one. Yeah. Okay. So, When it comes to deer hunting, that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure, because a lot of deer have very, you know, dough groups, so they go from point A to point B, and you know, a lot of times you can sit and you, and with the right wind, hey, those are gonna come out over here and the fawns and they're [00:35:00] gonna feed through this food source and they're gonna exit over here and this is what they do.

You know, and, and for 90% of them, they follow the script. Well, every once in a while I run into one of these. Individual deer that doesn't follow a script, has no script. You know, they're basically random moronic animals. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, you know, you know, they, it's like one day they go here and one day they, they, they go there.

And so there's that part of my mind that drove me to want. Real challenges as an engineer is exactly the same way as a habitat manager and a hunter. I wanna challenge myself with that one that is so difficult to figure out. Okay. And, and like I say, it's, it's very fulfilling when you can't, it's like, oh my gosh, you know, I did everything, you know, I waited and everything was right, and I, I kind of had this hunch.

And you have that, you know, that, that. That gut, that feeling in the gut, which, you know, we should, we should talk about sometime because Yeah, yeah. Go lot. Fine. When you have that freaking instinct and your gut tells you this, [00:36:00] you might wanna listen to that because that can be that lucky day for you, you know?

Yep. Uh, but it is neat to do those things and then wow, everything just worked out. Just like, just like you had had hoped and had planned and envisioned in your mind. And, uh, uh, they just, uh, you know, they keep us on our toes, but, you know, uh, If you're not doing work, if you're not doing manipulation, like you were talking about, you've got a deer that you're hoping is gonna show up in the next three weeks.

And that's, and you've got this history of this is what deer do and you're gonna do this manipulation. And if you do everything right, you're gonna make a spot where you probably got a pretty good place. And uh, and I will tell you, I've done the same thing. And that's the kind of segue into when you own a property as long as I have, and you've done multiple years of changes, How do you deal with changes that are, that happened, you know, 40 years ago then changes that you did 25 years ago, and now I'm gonna go back in there and, and do radical changes [00:37:00] again cause of the habitat, the deer density, and, and set up a, a new place to hunt with a, with a new location.

You know, and it's just, It's just so darn much fun, you know? Way more fun than hunting.

John Teater: It is, it is. I mean, that's the, that's the, yeah, I mean, the amount of time that you're spending, I mean, today we talked earlier, you were out on a tractor and I, I know, I know where you're at cuz I'm in a similar place.

You're grinding through clients, getting reports done. Um, and I don't mean grinding in a bad way, but you're getting information out there and then you wanna focus on, you gotta, you got a system coming in. You wanna make sure you get your plants in the ground, you got things to do, and you're in this kind of mode of thinking, like, okay, this is my, it's your chance to meditate.

And then also to think about the things that are important to you, um, when it comes to your goals this season and this whole, I'll go, just call it adaptive management. You know, you, you associate value with change and change on the landscape as good and the right amount of change. But at some point, you know, if you're not [00:38:00] recycling back in.

Well, Jim Ward and I were just talking about this, the other, the other day. You know, when, when you're going and do a project, Jake, like the big thing is recognizing within two to five years we gotta go back and do, do a little bit more. We gotta, we gotta adapt to what the, the deer are utilizing or not utilizing.

And making, making some adjustments. So through this whole maintenance stage of life and as well with our habitats that we're trying to improve, you know, what have you learned? Because I think you've got this pedigree of this long-term property, which is a legacy property for you. You know what, what maintenance and changes are you employing, not only to kill that deer that we talked about earlier, but to get the flow and consistency and frequency of use, and all the things that we kind of talk about on this podcast.

Jake Ehlinger: So, uh, I'll, I'll use a, a recent project that I just completed in, I think I, I finished up, I've still got one more, uh, I got one more gateway to build, but I'm gonna go back in probably [00:39:00] late July and do that once. All the fawns are big and born and, and, uh, o out, you know, out of these areas. But I, I had a, uh, if you can imagine a, a.

A woodlot section that is bor. The north border of it is water from a wetland, and it's probably about a hundred to a hundred and. 50 yards deep as far as mature trees. And then it transitions, uh, to the south side into some early successional growth. What used to be old growth field habitat, where I've got conifers and oak trees and maples and hickory growing in there that are 35 feet tall now.

Okay. And, uh, along with other shrubbery and apple trees. And, but anyways, there it creates a change and there's an edge. So inside of that, on the, on the. Extreme east end and on the extreme west end, I have two existing bedding area hinge cuts notch and fall combination cuts, um, that are probably one is [00:40:00] oh, 12 to 15 years old, and the other one is about maybe eight, 10 years old and they've been.

Highly utilized. Again, all the, the, the trail systems and the entries and exits and a lot of early successional growth and, and you know, the typical maintenance of going into each one of those every three to five years. And if you hunt near once or twice and you see, geez, the deer wanted to go here, but I got a tree top that I didn't cut.

And you could see they kind of got bottlenecked and they were being chased by bucks. And when they got up into that bottleneck, they made sure they never got in there again. So, Hey, I gotta cut and then, then you're gonna get more growth and, and, uh, You know, everything from growth to storm damage that you gotta go in and clear and, and and basically maintain.

And then as the deer move in and start utilizing it more, you're gonna realize, man, they're eating a lot of the early successional growth. So you've gotta cut more. And I'm gonna call, that's the normal maintenance. Keeping the trails open, keeping keeping the networks [00:41:00] open, keeping the ACOs and the little openings clear.

That's the normal maintenance. But in the big picture, you're gonna notice around the. Edges of those areas where, where the sunlight starts and stops. Where you've left the canopy and you've made the transition into these bedding areas, you're gonna have deer trails and deer movement around those edges, and all of a sudden those structures that you built that are existing bedding areas kind of become permanent fixtures in a deer's movement zone.

Okay? Yep. So now, instead of hugging. And coming in close to the cover, your closed canopy woods, uh, because you've left it closed canopy, has, has, uh, degraded to the point where there's not near as much understory. And you're gonna find dough groups and buck travel kind of shifting depending on the wind direction and, and where the thick cover is.

Okay? [00:42:00] And so this year I took an area that I had worked on three years ago and created a good bedding area, a good hinge cut. Notch and fall, uh, area and just went in there this year and we had some beautiful weather in January and February without snow on the ground. I don't know if your part of New York was like that at that time of the year or not.

Uh, but anyways, I cut trees like you can't believe. Jim Ward would be very proud of me because I'm certain I put down in three weekends. Thousands of trees, and I'm gonna say hundreds of oak trees, 30 inches in diameter. I mean, I, it was an absolute war zone. Okay. Wow. And then I spent, I spent several weeks going in there and, and, and cleaning up and cutting openings.

And, uh, I've got a trailer and I hauled a lot of wood out of there cause I got an outside wood burner. Okay. And so I, I kind of combination. When I do a big project like that, I go, well, you know, First, I'm just dropping all these trees, but I gotta tell you, it went from, [00:43:00] it went from a third of an acre to a solid acre and a half to two acres with some really detailed strategic trail systems openings, a walls of cover, kind of a thick, long area, and then an opening and a thick, long area, and an opening.

And when I pulled out of there in, uh, close to end of March, cause I was heading to Missouri to do a bunch of work for a handful of clients and I put a, a game camera up in there, a cell camera. And literally in the first seven or eight days, I had like five, 600 pictures. Of deer just zooming in and outta there, going up and down every one of these travel corridors, bedding on the outside, bedding on the inside.

You can see. And to this day it is so freaking active. It's crazy. Hmm. So now it's kinda like the new, the new Walmart in town. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, it just goes to show that you can get a bit complacent with really good bedding areas that have always worked and are [00:44:00] constantly used. But when you're, uh, for my situation, and a lot of people here in Michigan and throughout the Midwest that I visit have this problem, and that is an increasing deer density.

Deer density is going up. You're probably seeing it, right? Absolutely. And so when that deer density starts growing, going up, the early successional growth and the demand for security, and the demand for space. There's a little more pressure on it. Yep. So it was just amazing to create another, I, I had two hotel Hiltons and I had a super eight motel where they could, you know, where they could spend a little bit of time in the middle, a hundred yards separated from, from each one.

And now I've made another Hilton with, with hot tub rooms. And I'm telling you these second dear, I mean, my, right now when we're talking, my camera's going off. Okay. And it's just constantly going off. And it, you know, it, big turkeys in there and it's like, what? It's just amazing how the wildlife, but you know, the, [00:45:00] the, the growth, I haven't even, I have not gone in there, but everything I can see from my camera, the amount of green I'm seeing, the amount of deer that I'm using, browsing, moving around.

Um, just the utilization and the comfort factor. Okay. Yeah. Area. Yeah, a spot where I had very little do a deer movement. Uh, for the la uh, last two falls now is just, uh, what I've done is I've changed that travel corridor a little bit and made them favor a particular side. And that was all strategic cuz my camera is, is literally, uh, 12 to 15 feet up in the, in the tree that my stand is in.

Okay. And it's letting me know that it's in the right

John Teater: place. And, and that's the other piece of it, you know, this camera data, you know, we, we, we say it misses information, right? We, we, we clearly identified that in the discussion. But where it doesn't misinformation and it gives you a story and you're comfortable with that, you know, you feel like it's [00:46:00] reliable because it's consistent.

Okay. And then you make some decisions based on that, which, which sounds precisely what you did probably in com, combination of your observatory information, and then you go in and you make these strategic cuts and you're kind of layering it in a way where, You're maximizing space, food and movement. And I'll just say this for, for anybody, um, that, that listen to this podcast talking about it is one thing.

And then it's hard to explain. I, I think, Jake, you did a nice job kind of explaining the layout and the pieces of it, but it's, it's, you know, I talked about, like in the podcast I just did is reverse engineering the bedding and kind of creating this variability. Within that kind of organized chaos and giving them the right amount of space and structure and confinement, yet food.

And there's a real art to that. And it's the knowledge that you have and that I have that allows us to [00:47:00] apply that in the field. And the other piece of it is, no bedding area is maintenance free. And the one, the one thing that I've tried to, uh, equip myself with is cutting the right amount of volume to make it as, uh, maintainable as possible, but recognizing these clients that, that we work with, they're gonna need you back every year or two.

To ensure that they're on target. And the other piece of it, and you know this too, is you and I are both learning through this process and we're applying kind of that knowledge of what trees to fell, what trees to cut, you know, how to lay out structure, how to create the right amount of spacing. We're thinking about aspects slope.

Soil quality, moisture levels after you cut timber. You know, there's just a lot of things that kind of go into the whole sequencing of thinking through each step of this. And I've, I've been on, I can't tell you how many client properties where they've cut timber and, and these people are on every website, Facebook page, you can see, and they're like, and I, I go and I'm, I'm saying to myself, [00:48:00] If, if you just took your time a little bit and really just thought through each one of these things, build it like you're building your house and you brought up the the Hilton or five star, if you're building it like your home.

It's architected and that's really the huge piece of it. You're actually thinking through each piece of timber you're laying out before you cut it. And, uh, I, I, on my own property, I'm like super slow and I'm thinking through each cut and, you know, and you might be at a client, you might have to move a little quicker and, uh Oh wow.

Because you gotta accomplish more, you know what I mean?

Jake Ehlinger: I mean, I hate to think how many hours I have in this. Recent project that I just did this year, you know? Yeah. And, and if I had to pay somebody to spend the amount of hours that I did, it would be pretty crazy. Okay. But on the other hand, it's, it's reflective of, you know, I'm real strategic.

And like you say, you might, you might sit there and stare at a group of trees and go, man, you know, I. This one's really, it really wants to go to the left and I'd like it to go straight out in front of me. I wonder if [00:49:00] I can swing that over through wedges and, and, you know, uh, cutting techniques, things we've learned over the years or another tree hitting it.

And, and, and ideally I spend more time than I should trying to strategically get trees. Where I want them. And you aren't gonna get everyone some, some don't go where you want. And you go, okay, chainsaw's coming out and I'm cutting it all up. It's turning firewood. But you know, and then there's all that detail work that you do.

You know, and that can be, you know, that's after all the heavy lifting has been been done, the big trees are down and a lot of that's notch and fall. And, and you know, when you do things right, you get big trees that you can hinge that successfully stay alive. And, uh, you know, Then you gotta go in and do all that cleanup and, oh, man, you know, and, and this project was 90, you know, 95% just me working on it.

And man, I, I hate to tell you how many hours I got, but on the other hand, it come out really, really good. And, and it just, uh, it verifies what [00:50:00] I do for my clients. And I, and I always try to spend some time with each client. Uh, a lot of clients just get a plan from me. I don't do physically do any work on their property.

Yep. And I'm trying to leave. Leave with enough information with them and then the information that follows and the detailed plan they get so that they can understand how to go about doing this and do, and you know, not everybody's got visions like you and I. Okay? Yep. And, you know, and, and that's just part of the world.

That's what makes everybody different. But, you know, I can walk in and look at a ridge line and, and whether it's flat ground or a hilly ground and get, and. Pretty quick identify where the bedding areas need to be and how the travel corridors need to connect. And I can see it in my head before any of the trees are down and, uh, you know, there's a good majority of of the clients I work with that can do that.

And, and do a pretty good job. And then there's others, you know, that struggle. But if there's anything all of 'em are struggling with is staying [00:51:00] on top of that maintenance. That's a great, that's a great point you brought up. And that's where I was heading. And you know, when there's. You've been at this a while, and your, and your hinge cuts are five years, eight years, 10 years.

There's not only is there maintenance, then there becomes heavy lifting to do because trees get bigger, things change, deer density increases. Uh, you know, maybe the neighbors are, uh, you know, there's, something's happened with a neighboring property. Uh, more hunting pressure, less hunting pressure. Um, it's up to us.

You know, when we look in the mirror, it's the only guy that's gonna go out there and identify, notice and take corrective

John Teater: action. Yeah, absolutely. And it's, it's a hundred percent it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it's, it's giving, it's, it's empowering the people with the tools to do that. That's the whole, you know, client-based relationship that we have.

The other piece of this is that, that strategic, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna group. I'm gonna group you, me, and Ward together in this kind of kind of mindset. And [00:52:00] I feel like where we're all at at this point, uh, professionally and how we're kind of making the strides here with the, with the clients is, is really kind of connecting to the key root issues.

Like I keep everything simple, stupid, and I want people being, I. Very observatory and, and conscientious of the things that I'm trying to explain to them. This whole s spatial segregation and trying to have, you know, less work involved in this process is, is, is hard to, is hard to get. Get out there. But the other piece of it is it never goes away and the philosophies are evolving.

Like the way I cut now is a little different than the way I cut a couple days ago. Um, and, and it's really like, you know, I'm thinking a little bit more strategic about something differently than I was just, just a week prior to that. And, and that just shows that my mind's evolving. I got the basics down, like you and I know the, the fundamentals.

It's, it's emphasizing these next bits and. Pieces of strategy and it's amazing. So how sometimes we go back to the basics with a lot of these, you know, [00:53:00] overall strategies, whether it's food plots, cutting techniques, et cetera. And I just, I kinda love that piece of it, but I'm gonna introduce some things this, this summer.

And you and I were talking about it earlier, you know, pre-show about. Philosophies and, and, and ideas and concepts that emphasize, you know, certain tree species and plant types and thinking more intimate about our environments that we're working on. So, you know, maybe you and I can get back together on this podcast and talk about maybe some of the things that are within this vet area that are constructed in a way that are like, highly productive based on your observational or just, you know, physically taking a look at the, the landscape use and.

Recognizing, you know, the ones and whys of what deer are using because you, you brought up all these points about deer isolating themselves and how they use terrain and, you know, features of wind and weather and, and all those factors. And, you know, try to put a, put a box around that. It's difficult to do.

Oh, you know,

Jake Ehlinger: you know, um, I would say, uh, [00:54:00] You know, and, and, and I'm sure you've run into this too, you know, there are days I leave a client's property and is, he's got those deer in the headlights eyes. He's been hit. He's, he realizes it's kind of overwhelming. You know, there's the habitat, there's, you know, whether that's a combination of food plots, timber stand improvement, travel corridors.

There's the weather conditions, uh, you know, including, uh, barometric pressure. There's food sources, there's annuals versus perennials. Um, there's, there's cutting techniques, cutting styles, there's screening versus bedding, and, you know, their head is just spinning in a circle and you just realize, you know, they're just gonna need some time to sort this out and realize, you know, there's a method for everything and there's only so many days a year we can work and it, it needs to be fun and it shouldn't turn into, uh, you know, it shouldn't be a burdensome job.

You know that some, some land managers turn managing their land into this burdensome job and, and, uh, Hey, when I'm tired, I quit working. [00:55:00] Oh, yeah.

John Teater: Yep,

Jake Ehlinger: yep. You know, and sometimes you go, you know, I get up the next morning and you, you know, I back sore my shoulders, you know, I'm gonna take a day off. I'm gonna, I'm gonna think about something else I need to work on, on the property.

John Teater: You know, I, I think, I think you bring up a good point of taking space and thinking through the things that you did well. Thinking through the things that you didn't. And then the piece of it is, is taking a, a fresh mind to things. And I would recommend anybody who, here's a good recommendation, you know, people that are knowledgeable in this field are hard to find.

And when you do find 'em, stay close to 'em. And, you know, use individuals as resources the best that you can. And obviously don't, don't take too much advantage of that, but recognize that their expertise and your individualistic mindset. You're gonna, you're gonna, it's a team mentality. Like to have Jake come back and, and give you input based on his learned experience and then your observational learned [00:56:00] experience.

I mean, you're just helping feed his business and he's helping feed your opportunity. It just, it seems to be like a synergistic type environment. That's, that's kind of what we're trying to promote on this podcast. And, and, uh, I, I, I wanna, I take full advantage of it cuz I'm learning from you all, you know.

Jake Ehlinger: Well, you know, I, I, I agree John, you know, um, We're all in this together. And, uh, it's, you know, often you can take multiple ideas and nuggets of information from a variety of different qualified, you know, uh, talented professionals and, you know, grab this piece over here and, and, oh, I like the way this guy does that and put.

And put a habitat together that really works well for the landowner.

John Teater: Yeah, I can, I can't agree with you more. I think that's, uh, I think that's critical to this whole process that we're, we're kind of, we're kind of emphasizing here together. No, there's no one

Jake Ehlinger: way for everything. And, uh, you know, one of the things I try to, uh, I'm, I'll mention this in the videos that I do and when I'm working with [00:57:00] clients is, you know, there's no right or wrong way, but there is a, there is a concept and a, and, you know, a goal, Hey, we want deer here and we don't want deer here and, and you know, all that, but you know, this, it all goes back and I've said this to you on, on a couple of podcasts, we've done, uh, doing nothing.

Guarantee that your hunting's gonna

John Teater: get worse.

Jake Ehlinger: And, uh, you know, without naming names, we both know who those people are. Okay. Yeah. And it's just, hey, you know, they find out there's work involved. Yeah, there's, right, there is work involved. But I'm glad, I'm glad

John Teater: it is. Yeah. And I, I am too, and I'm, I'm happy that, uh, when I brought the three of us up, I meant we're, you know, we're, we're creating change across the landscape.

And I think people are listening. The last piece of this, I'm just gonna add, you know, the, the one person who thinks they've got it right, Is is typically the person who's got it wrong. Yeah. You know, we don't know everything. And, and that's the whole premise behind this. We've got good systems in place, right?

Jake has his [00:58:00] mindset and his system, and he's open, same with, with everybody else that's on this podcast, and we're, we're trying to recognize that there's differences. And at the same point, your region's gonna, you know, definitely define those differences. Like, oh, absolutely. My area who gets a ton of snow versus, uh, you know, we'll say, uh, Perry Battens, you know, down in Missouri and Iowa, the jury boys, they, they don't get the snow load that I have to deal.

I don't have the deer population that they have. Right. And, and so it's thinking through each one of those individualistic, you know, environments and, and starting to make. Some conscientious decisions and, and recognizing that those are important factors in, you know, the amount of food that you have on your landscape or the mono cover that you need.

You know, it's just, it's a lot of that, that, those bits that kind of gets you to the, the next level. So I think, uh, I think we'll end there. I'm really interested to see this bedding area, so I think. I think it's something we'd want to talk about in the future is, you know, what, what that prescribes you. Oh, your strategic movement.

Uh, that is a big piece of kind of your plan and how that, how that's gonna work in your [00:59:00] hand, this, this hunt and season. And then I want to hear kind of about your, maybe your, your fall food plot strategies. We kind of hit on that a little bit today, but I think the next time we have ya we'll kind of hit on some of those different topics.

Sure. And, uh, yeah. Okay. You know, we'll just, we'll keep digging. Sounds great, John. All right, man. We'll talk soon. Appreciate the time and, uh, good luck with the, the rest of your day, getting your food plots in.

Jake Ehlinger: Thank you very much. You have a good day too, John. All right, talk soon. See ya. Bye. Maximize your hunt is a production of whitetail landscapes.

For more information on how John Teeter and his team of experts can help you maximize your hunt, check out whitetail landscapes.com.