Habitat talk for July - Greg from Whitetail Partners

Show Notes

This week Paul and Andrew are back at it, with all kinds of discussion. Andrew flying across the country with a surprise in his bag, Paul doing serious work for the NWTF, News from ODNR and more.

The real steak and potatoes comes with the talk with Greg Kazmierski from Ohio Whitetail partners.  Greg specializes in helping to consult on habitat management so the guys wanted to touch base on what land managers should be doing this time of the year to improve their properties during July. The conversation goes from wind mapping, to invasive species management, and more.

Have a great week and enjoy the O2 if you get out into Ohio’s great Outdoors!


Show Transcript

Andrew: [00:00:00] And what's up everybody? Welcome back to the O two podcast, the Ohio Outdoors Podcast. Andrew and Paul, back at it again. Dynamic duo. Dynamic man. Oh yeah.

Paul: He took the words right outta my mouth.

Andrew: I was on Dan Johnson's show this week, and he called me the Magic Man. I don't know what the hell he was talking about, but thanks Dan, appreciate that.

So magic man. We'll stick with dynamic. I love you children. Fair? Yeah. So Paul, what have you been up to, buddy? Anything fun? Just

Paul: sch flubbing around like the rest of us. And I did something pretty neat today. I did a podcast for the nwtf Oh, on the new initiative that came out, the RFP program, which is the request for proposal.

We've funded. 1.25 million worth of research so far this year we're gonna fund [00:01:00] it's gonna be about eight, 8 million in research over the next year and a half for Wild Turkey research across this country. So I got to talk with our director of conservation, which is really neat. We're doing a three or four parts series.

We got new initiative coming out, the Habitat for the Hatch initiative that, that I'm gonna be talking about on the podcast platform with the N wtf. So that was pretty neat, man. Enjoyed that. So check that out, Turk. Call All Access.

Andrew: That's awesome. And I've seen a lot of pictures on social media and stuff and videos of ltz running around with yeah.

Penn. So that's good sign. And it's too early to tell right how the hatch went, but yeah, we'll see how that

Paul: get 'em off the ground, man. I don't know where they're at in terms of lake size, but yeah, it takes two weeks for Apul pole to be able to fly. Just broke my chair. Hang on there, big guy. Yeah, dude.

So that's it, man. That's what I've been up to. I'm glad to be home Feet firmly

Greg: planted on the ground here

Paul: in

Andrew: Ohio. I got a couple things for you. So I've actually got my bow out and started hammering the targets. Things are going well, starting to get [00:02:00] used to that new site, getting ready for archery hike coming up, which archery hike.com, July 7th, eighth and ninth, I believe, are the dates.

So this show that we're, this show's gonna drop on July 5th, happy

Paul: 4th of July to

Andrew: all of you. Yes, late 4th of July. Happy late 4th of July. So it's gonna drop July 5th, so two days you have the sign up for Archery hike and get down there. But anyhow, getting ready for that. So that was exciting.

I'm actually feeling pretty good, which means next time I go out I'll be losing arrows. But you and I were just talking, Paul. All right. So yes, we are the Ohio Outdoors Podcast, but. I've been going over to Pennsylvania for a few years to hunt over there. Ander? Yes. And I went, they opened up their license sales this week and they, let's say if you've never done Pennsylvania licensing in the past, it's been very old school and you had to send in these envelope, these pink envelopes and whatever.

But this year they're doing a lot more stuff [00:03:00] online. Paul, I went, I think it was about 10 o'clock in the morning onto their website. I had to put my name in the queue because there was 92,000 plus people ahead of me. Holy cow. And they were gonna send me an email and I had 10. Once I got that email, I had 10 minutes to hit the link to get in line to, get in my spot to get my license.

Yeah, I got that email at eight o'clock at night. It took that long for, it took 10 hours. Wow. It was incredible. Hey, it did work. Okay. I got everything taken care of and all in good time, but man, that was great to doozy. So here's my other story for you, Paul. Yeah. I think I told you about it.

I know I told you about it, but I had to go out to Oregon for work last week. Yeah. And on my way back. So I've, I'm just gonna tell the story how it goes because it's what it is. I have my backpack. And that, this backpack is one that I generally, [00:04:00] I use for a lot of things. It's a nice stone glacier backpack, and I find it comfortable and carries a lot of stuff.

And so it's my day-to-day bag. Okay. I conceal and carry a lot of times I have my firearm in there. And but then I've obviously tried to clean the bag out as well as I could. But I've also taken this bag on hunting trips and different things. Any who? So clean the bag out before I leave.

Take all my, travel stuff, fly to Portland do my thing out there in, in grass seeded world. Go to come back through the airport in Portland. Okay? And now if you haven't traveled on an airplane lately, they have the little bomb sniffing dogs that go past you, which I'm totally on board with all that, let's be safe.

No problems there. We get through this line. And the guy in that I was traveling with, I said to him, I said, it always makes me a little bit nervous when I go through this stuff because this bag that I carry I normally have my firearm in it, but I don't know if there's residual or anything that could be in the bag that would set one of these [00:05:00] dogs off or some kind of sensor or something like that.

But I, I got right through. No problem. Put the bag up on the x-ray table, goes through the bag, gets pulled aside. I'm like, okay, this isn't the first time I've. Patted down or anything in an airport because I look really suspicious, but whatever. Again, safety, not worried about it. I got time, I got plenty of time before the plane goes out.

That bag sits there, the bag sits there, and I think it was about 15 minutes. Finally some supervisor lady comes over. She's is this your bag? I'm like, yeah. So she takes it. She's I'm gonna have to go through it. Oh, that's fine. I don't, there's nothing in there. She dives right in there.

She knew right where she was going, and pulls out a six five creedmore round that was at the bottom of my bag. And I'm one of those people that, in a weird situation like that, where I should have had this like ghostly look on my face, all I could do is smile. And I just had this huge smile and grin on my face.

And I'm like, stop smiling, Andrew.

Greg: Stop smiling.

Andrew: What are you

Greg: doing? Look at the guy next to me. He's are you

Andrew: [00:06:00] serious? And now the lady just took it and I'm guessing, Okay. First of all, I know that was in there from when I went to Oklahoma. It's been in there since then. I didn't realize it was in there, but that had to have been when it fell out or something.

Had no intentions of having that in my bag. I somehow it got through from, Columbus over to Portland. But nonetheless, ladies I'm just gonna, I'm gonna have to take this from you. And I'm like yeah, absolutely. Don't detain me here in Portland. That's the last place I really wanna be stuck.

She took it out, gave me the bag back, no problems. I, it was one of those things though that man, I get your heart going. And I think I texted the group, our buddies down are go wild. They're, they have to make a joke out of it. Andrew, there's easier ways to get cavity searches than jammed bullets up your ass.


Greg: Justin she should

Paul: been like, oh, look at this hunting douche here six, five round.

Andrew: I wonder, I do wonder how often that happens. And obviously it's not, I didn't have, it was, I didn't even have a [00:07:00] gun anything with me, nothing close. But I, there's always that idea in my luck, the primer got popped and all shit would've hit the fan, but the, oh my God.

Being that Oregon is an area for big game hunting I wonder if that doesn't happen more often where a rogue, rogue round just makes its way

Paul: into a bag and Yeah. I, obviously they weren't that tore up about it. They just took it and moved on with their day.

Andrew: Yep. And that was fine.

And I appreciate it and trust me, it will not happen again.

Paul: Man, what a day. Andrew, Let's pay the bills, man, half rack.com, half-rack.com, Ohio Outdoors, 15 for Ohio Outdoors. 15. Save yourself 15% on every order that you've got. They've got a ton of stuff if you're working on Your land this year, we're gonna talk a lot about working on land, Andrew, and all sorts of stuff for the land Manager for the Hunter.

I talked for this on our episode last week. Their T-shirt game is real strong at Half Rack, so check them out@halfrack.com, Ohio Outdoors [00:08:00] 15.

Andrew: Yep. And then time to go wild.com or download the Go Wild App on your favorite platform. But this is your online social media for hunters and anglers. These guys got all kinds of stuff going on here.

Different avenues to go down. Hunting, Turkey hunting, bass fishing, white-tailed deer hounds, men, mobile hunting. They've got online commerce, so some things you can pick up there. Actually a lot of things. You got, they've been upgrading their fishing line galore, man. So that's definitely something to check out.

Trail cams, all that kind of stuff. If you're looking for that heading into the fall, definitely check out go time to go wild.com first light, thanks to our guys over there dropping some new logo. Wear that trace system that will be if it ever gets hot that would be a great option there for the early season when it comes to getting out there.


Paul: they got some good, they got some those, I gotta get that system. But midwest gun works.com if you are into the [00:09:00] shooting sports, if you're trying to get your deer rifle or shotgun ready for the season. Duck gun ready for the season. Need some gunsmithing work. They've got a fantastic in-house gunsmithing department.

The parts finder, they have a ton of options. For parts. If you're working on something obscure, something weird or something is Run of the Mill is Win or Remington eight 70. I almost said Winchester eight 70. Can you imagine the hate that I would got if I would've said Winchester eight 70? God.

Settle down at Remington eight 70 Midwest Gun works.com, Ohio Outdoors. Five, save your Fi yourself 5% on every purchase that you make. Ohio bha we're gonna be at Must the Marsh, July 21st of the 23rd and Conant.

Andrew: That was my sign. Also for Ex Vision. Sorry. No. Finish. I thought you're

Paul: telling me to stop.

I like, it's gonna be, it's gonna be Graham looking at their Instagram right now. Ryan Callahan's gonna be. And look, we're on

Andrew: the I saw that. Yeah. Look

Paul: at us, [00:10:00] man. At us taking care of us. Appreciate you guys. So yeah, you can visit back Country Hunter and engler.com to become a member today of the of the B H a or you can visit Muster M u s t e r in the marsh.com to get your tickets.

It's gonna be one hell

Andrew: event. Yeah. And we had Henry from the ba, Ohio b h a on a couple weeks ago or maybe that was a couple weeks ago. Hop back there if you got any more information. He's in the intro with us. But finally we got X Vision is our final partner there. So just getting, man, I need to get out and use that more, but I'm really contemplating one of these thermal monoculars there, Paul, because I think this thing's pretty slick.

Really handy just to pop that up and go, but awesome. For your thermal vision, night, vision, binos, range finders, all kinds of stuff. So x vision optics.com.

Greg: What

Paul: a group. What a group. And also just quick shout out to the guys at Redfin Polarize. Those glasses are phenomenal. They're some if you were an angler, I'm telling you, their polarized [00:11:00] glasses are second to none.

And I've had all of 'em. I've had Costas, I've had raybans, I've had Oakleys have all those their glass and their sunglasses is amazing. Absolutely amazing. That's it. I'm done. All done. So this week we've got Greg

Andrew: two news stories. Ky two New. Two New two. Oh, I forgot all about the news. Yeah. Zip it man.

Let's roll it. All right, real quick. Two news stories. O D N R, dedicating the little Darby Creek as a state nature preserve. So actually that happened today, but if you'd like to read more about it Ohio dnr.gov. And then something that more people are probably interested in that's not fair, I shouldn't say that.

But applying in July for Ohio's controlled hunting opportunities. Starting on Saturday, July 1st you'll have the ability to apply for the hunting lotteries for deer, waterfall dubs, and more on public land for 20 23, 20 24 season. And that application period goes until July 31st. So [00:12:00] take advantage of that.

It's a good deal. There's lots of options out there across the state. So as this airs, we will have have that open, but all right, Paul, onto today's episode.

Paul: Greg Kaki. How do I say that? You've got it down.

Andrew: No, I don't because I've got Oh, you suck. You had it. I talk about it front of you, right? In the beginning.

Paul: Yeah, in, in the beginning. Greg is works for Ohio Whitetail partners land managers. This is his second time on the program. We had a great conversation about what you as land managers can be doing right now. Travel corridors, hunter access, bedding area, establishment. We dive deep into public land, summertime scouting.

Great talk with Greg. Thank you so much, Greg, for your time. Really appreciate it. This will be the rotation for our white sail, Sears. We're gonna have a land, some land talk, some habitat work, talk. We'll have some techniques, some strategy, some gear talk. We're gonna, we're gonna roll our whitetail series out here and get you guys up to speed for whitetail season here in the

Andrew: [00:13:00] Buckeye State.

Yeah, and I think we're gonna try to get some guys on the talk about hunting in different states. So if it's hunting outta state is something you've been interested in, maybe you've been a little bit apprehensive. We get some of the surrounding guys to give us a rundown of, just the general layout of their states and different regulations.

Paul: Dude, cat's outta the bag for me, hunting outta state. I avoided it for years, dude. I it's like my, I love it. It's so much fun. It's new territory. It's new people, it's new memories. Same animals, right? Same turkeys or, deer or whatever. But I the new, if the new terrain is what really really excites me hunting out of state.

It is just new areas and its, you can do it cheap. You can do it affordable. We're gonna dive into that for

Andrew: sure. Cool. We appreciate everybody hop on, give us a review. If you get a chance, find us on Instagram. It's d dot oh two dot podcast. The oh two podcast.com. Go wild. It's oh two podcast.

Besides that, man, it's yeah, feel free to reach out to us, let us know what we're doing. Good, bad, whatever. And we'll go from there. [00:14:00] Thanks guys. Take care.

Greg: All right. All right.

Paul: Greg, say all of that, that you just did again, word for word. Hold on. Before Andrew didn't hit record. No, we're starting.

Andrew: No, before we're his podcast. Podcast we started before he goes into that again. Okay. I have to tell you, Greg and I shared this with Paul and our buddy Josh Rayley the other day.

But I'm trying, I was trying to get you booked on the show. And another guy this is, this might be my other land management guy, guy's name's Greg also. So you're Greg Kki, and this is Greg Kki. Okay. K e d. Oh, wow. Yeah. How about that? So do you wanna know how bad that was Screwing with my head when I was looking through emails and

Greg: stuff, trying to find Craig.

Oh man, I bet. Which Greg is that, or

Andrew: which Greg is that? Which one? Because I think we're gonna try to talk to him in a couple weeks and it's wait, I gotta send the right link to the right person and Right. Oh man. I was like, I [00:15:00] was pulling my hair out last night. Oh man. So all that said Greg, we got Greg back two

Paul: times, so Greg, second time on the show, man.

Thanks. Thanks for coming on. I'm gonna touch on real quick what you just said before prior to recording, you were basically talking about how at this point in the year, and we're, this is the third week of June or the end of June that we're recording this, that the time for big habitat improvement projects has come and gone.

Why is that?

Greg: Touch on that real quick. So there's a few reasons why it's not, I'm not saying that, you can't get out there and still implement these projects if you desire to. One big reason is just the enjoyment side of it. Things get really thick and alive in Ohio, in the summertime, and going out in the woods can be really just unfriendly.

You're gonna get folks stabbed, cut, whatever you can really draw up is gonna happen to you. And outside of that if you are gonna go in there and say you want to implement like a new bedding area one is the, are the deer going to use [00:16:00] that come season? Is it gonna develop enough that they're gonna feel comfortable using it?

And two, if you go and start making these major changes into deer suburb summer patterns and routines is it gonna cause too much of a hassle on your property that. They're gonna like bug out and you're gonna do more harm than you are gonna do good on the property. So it's just like every property's gonna be different, if you're working on a six, 700 acre monster piece of property, you can do these kind of things in stages.

But if you only say have, 20, 30 acres to work with, that's your bread and butter right there. And you wanna preserve it for all that it's worth for that optimal time of the season. So I

Andrew: know the last time you were on Greg, we were finishing up the end of the hunting season or late winter.

And we were cause I remember sitting here saying, okay, when I sit in the tree, I'm looking at all the different things I, I need to do. So ideally then you're saying everybody you should have been working on those projects this spring, getting things in the ground, clearing areas out, all that kinda stuff.

And at this point we [00:17:00] are just kinda gonna step back from the big projects in

Greg: general. Yeah. Yeah. So that's so like for us, we do us as, all the guys that we have at Whitetail Partners, we're doing a lot of our property visits in that January to right about Memorial Day timeframe.

Just one, because like you said, towards the end of hunting season, when you're sitting up in the tree, you can see everything. And it's really nice to be able to walk a property with a landowner and have them pretty much tell you this is what goes on right now during hunting season. And then at me as a consultant, I can look around and say, okay, I know exactly where we need to draw up all of these projects to make this property even better.

So it's just a lot easier during that timeframe and you have more access to the property. You're not at all concerned about really what are you doing to the deer because you have so long until it matters again that's the time for that mass intrusion and [00:18:00] going back to the betting area type thing.

You're giving that area time for all of that spring green up to grow around it. And then the deer are gonna use it as they like to use it and how they want to use it. And by the time hunting season rolls around, they're gonna be so comfortable in it cuz they've been using it, at that point for six, seven months and nobody's been bothering it.

So it's really just that, how comfortable are the deer now on those big projects compared if you would've done them three, four months ago?

Andrew: All right, selfishly, is it too late to plant Sudan grass? If I want to create a wall?

Greg: So I think well that's what's so tricky, like this year, man, it's been so dry that anybody that planted anything in the springtime, is it worth anything right now? And obviously it's different everywhere you go and what type of access you have to be able to water your projects and everything like that.

But you are gonna be able to catch that [00:19:00] second window come like the August planting where you can still potentially get it. But man, again, with how dry it's been, it's are we gonna get any kind of like sustainable amount of rain that it's worth planting or I don't know. It's it's one of those things when you're at the mercy of mother nature, there's only so much you can, so much advice you can give before you just gotta kinda.

Plant and pray, I guess you could say. I'll tell you

Andrew: what, if plants grew off a wildfire smoke from Canada, they'd be 10 feet tall, the day after you

Greg: planted 'em. So yeah, we be doing right, man. Maybe maybe that's how the box grill their antlers too, is from that wildfire smoke. Then we'll all be in long.

Andrew: Yeah, I'm looking forward to that then. All right, so we're not doing major projects at this point, but there's still a lot

Paul: to do. Yes.

Greg: Definitely. So

Paul: you had mentioned betting areas. When did Deer establish their betting areas? Is that just something they're moved around all year or do you see their, like pretty defined areas now and they're gonna maintain those [00:20:00] areas for the duration of the hunting season?

Greg: Yeah, so I think with if you're talking about like doll families, things like that, if they can get into a bedding area where they're gonna have. Pretty much betting revolves around food, in my opinion. And if you can get a good centrally located bedding area for a dough family where they can have all seasoned food and it might be a different direction, but within a relatively close distance, they're gonna be comfortable living in that area all year long.

You're gonna have those micro shifts and everything depending on what's the dominant food source. Like right now, you can go out and drive around all these ag fields and deer every single night. And I'm sure that on those unpressured pieces of farmland that nobody's ever going out in those woodlots, those deer don't have a problem bedding, 50, 75 yards off the wood line cause nobody's bothering them and they don't wanna do any more work than they have to go from bed to food, especially in these warmer summer months.[00:21:00]

So I think as long as those bedding areas have that year-round food, they're gonna stick to it. But when it comes to the bucks, I feel like they're more what's the word I'm looking for? Like they're not gonna put up with as much and they are gonna change things a lot faster is what I've noticed.

They'll bounce around and they just I feel like those bucks are always using the doze as almost like little pawns on a chessboard. And they're letting either those doughs or the young bucks be like, okay, you go out in that field first and let me know if there's anything that's gonna be out there to get me and I'll sneak out behind you.

And it's the same thing when they're out on an open Oakridge later on in the fall. So I think those bucks kinda move a little bit more than those Dell families in a long wraparound way to answer your question there.

Andrew: So one of the things I was just thinking about And maybe this is more of a bio biological question.

How do fawns affect any of this habitat? [00:22:00] Or do they cause I'll have pictures. I'm really good at getting pictures of doughs by the way, but, I'll have a dough and she'll have the fawn and a couple days, I'm sure the fawns nearby, I'm assuming it's the same dough. But then she's not there.

The fawns not there for a couple days and I'm like, oh, great. Coyote got her or something. But then she's back and I don't know, how does that affect their patterns and, just in, in building habitat. Cause I'm, I've always been one of those believers, if you find the doughs, the bucks will, you'll find the bucks when the time is right.

But and I know that's not everybody's philosophy, but do the fawns play into this at all when they're, at this very young stage?

Greg: I think that's gonna be situational kind like back to that centralized do or betting area where the dough families are gonna hang out. It the do are always gonna have those fawning areas that they like to drop their fawns and keep 'em during the springtime.

And that's just gonna be places that instinctively those moms feel like their fawn is gonna be able to make it through the spring until they're a [00:23:00] little bit more independent come fall. Obviously, like you were saying, there's a lot more biology that goes into that, but just from like my observations I started, I actually started running more trail cameras in the springtime now to start to try to key in on those phone drop dates.

Because of that cycle, you can date it back to when that specific dough was going into heat back in the fall. And if she does have that, Annual bedding where she's sticking in one core area that allows me come that pre ru rut phase to almost predict when she's gonna go into heat. And then you can know, like you're stacking those odds in your favor of okay, this dough bedding area is gonna be better on October 8th because of the timeline when this bond dropped.


Andrew: good. That,

Paul: yeah, that blew my mind. And maybe that's a pretty standard practice in deer hunting. Andrew and [00:24:00] Greg, I don't know, did I lose you guys

Greg: there?

Andrew: Oh, you're still there. No, you're good. You're good. You froze on our screen, but can you hear us? So you're gonna take the your trail cam picture, see the, where the fawn was dropped, and we'll just say it was, June 1st and you're gonna go back.

What is it? How many days

Greg: is it? 210 days? I believe it is. 200 is the exact number. Okay.

Andrew: 210 days. You go back. And you were saying it'd be like October 28th or whatever, so then that'll give you some idea is that pretty standard that they basically go into estrus the same time every year?

Do you know

Greg: The same doe will like relatively close to it. Because it, I don't know, and I don't wanna like dive too far into this biology standpoint because I'm not a biologist. I just go based off of the information that like I can find online. And I, from what I've seen, just like from my visual experience in the woods, is that yes those dos are typically going into heat at that same time every year.

And even if I can narrow it down, to a couple of days, for me that's [00:25:00] like, All the information I need to know okay, I'm stacking the odds in my favor to dive in to the downwind side of this dough bedding area because I have a pretty good idea that dough or a collection of those doughs are gonna start to go into heat.

Andrew: And Greg, I'm going to agree with you a hundred percent cuz I've, I feel like I've seen the same thing. Yeah it might just be internet fodder or at least I will agree

Greg: with you. So good. That's all I, as long as I got somebody else out there that tells me I'm not crazy, that means that I'm doing something right.

He's gonna review

Paul: all this trail cam that pictures the last five years tonight. Greg, you've just ripped

Greg: his sleeve. You know what

Andrew: though? There was something else you said in there. I don't know why, but it just dawned on me, Paul, one of the properties. I've got a camera out and it stays out all year long.

I haven't seen a fawn yet out there. I don't know if that's it's probably not a good thing, but yeah,

Paul: I don't know. I'll have to work biological. Something or other happening out there. I don't know. So Greg let's dive [00:26:00] into your bread and butter. Let's talk about you mentioned two things earlier in the show, travel corridors and hunter access.

So these are things that that we as land managers have control over at this point in our season, right? Yep. Yep. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Greg: Say I was

Paul: gonna say you, you go. You too.

Greg: Okay. Okay. So yeah, with those travel corridors and the hunter access, if say it's something that you've established in the springtime or years before, right now is a great time to just periodically go out and make sure that those are being well maintained.

When we start getting these storms and stuff that roll in, you don't know when trees are gonna fall over. Especially a travel corridor, that's important because you want Deere to be so comfortable on those for as long as possible that if a major tree fall or something like that is debilitating their access on that travel route, [00:27:00] they're just gonna start using somewhere else and it's gonna make that less effective.

So now that's why I said is a great time for that maintenance and you can see like, how are the travel corridors working? And then you're back to that, okay, we're predicting what parts of the property the deer are gonna use later in the year. When that shift starts to happen, from these summer ranges.

And they start to get into more of that bed to food, especially like the bucks, like what we're all after. When are they gonna start using those and make sure that they're gonna use them the way that we want to. Now will you manipulate

Paul: like the travel corridors with brush piles or taking trees down if you need to redirect your

Greg: traffic?

Is that something that you advocate for? Yeah. So you can either, so I like to pair it, especially when I get into like the southern parts of the state, I really like to pair it with topography, ande. Like when you start to get that rocky outcrop you can use trees and [00:28:00] fall them in a way that it makes it really easy to direct that deer travel right where you want it to go.

Cuz when they have that rocky outcrop or a steep slope, they already don't want to go or can't go that way. And now you're just like making an even sweeter route for them and you're really just able to narrow down that where they, where you want them to travel. I kinda like to work backwards from those travel routes to how I'm gonna access the spot or how I'm gonna draw up the plan for the hunter to access his spot to kinda use that to topograph to his advantage, but then also for the deer's advantage while they're using that tra corridor.

Andrew: So for the guys that don't have the rocky outcrops and all that kinda stuff, maybe they're hunting a farm western part of the state, or relatively flat, mowing. I know that's a big portion of, cutting paths and different things like that. I've always heard deer take the path of least resistance, that kind of stuff.

Yep. And your home lawn, your, you're mowing once a week or [00:29:00] more generally when you're doing paths and stuff like that, depending on what kind of equipment and stuff you're using. Should that be on a regular basis, like once a week, once a month? How often should you be messing around with that in there?

Greg: Yeah. That's obviously it's gonna be situational based off of what time, what type of vegetation you're talking about. But. Typically, like it's not something you need to do all of the time. One because you don't wanna just be out there all the time kind of messing up the interior part of your property.

But two, a lot of that is good natural browse for the deer while they're just walking down those trails. And if you get that like grassy type vegetation, they're just gonna pick their way across it right now, but you get 'em using that trail. Really it's, so it's, I like to look at as long as the trail isn't overwhelmingly thick or you have brush coming over the top, like you get those honeysuckle thickets in the central western part of the state or those tall briar patch patches next to fields and stuff [00:30:00] like that.

And you can blaze a trail through those. And like you said, the path of least resistance, it's the same thing as a deer. Walking around an outcrop. It's just this is on flat ground. That is their resistance. But if they want to get to what's on the other side of that thick patch, if you blaze a trail for 'em they're gonna use, they're gonna start using that trail.

All right. You

Andrew: mentioned something in there, all honeysuckle, invasive species management, and it's a hot topic. We hear a lot about it in different parts of, all kinds of stuff, but when it comes to plants, you gotta be able to, if you're gonna attack an invasive species, honeysuckle, I mean it could be any one of the weeds we were talking about thistle earlier.

You gotta hit it when it's growing, right? So right now, I've always been told this'll if you're trying to take that out from the weed perspective, you gotta hit it right when it's about the flower, cuz it's exerted all of its energy up and it's time to knock it back. Are [00:31:00] there other plants that basically are herbicide applications or invasive species management, is right now a good time for that or is there a better time throughout the year?

Greg: Again, unfortunately, like all of these questions are situational based off of like where you are, what you have for property. Because I don't know, I look at like the inva, and this might not be a very popular opinion, but if the invasive species is managed in a way where you can have it contained, but you can still use it to the advantage of your habitat, then removing it can debilitate like the how good your whitetail property is.

So that's like a, just a way that I look at it because I see a lot of deer in like those honeysuckle patches and stuff just because like for us to walk through it, there's just, it's not possible. And if you do go through it, You're crawling and you're making a bunch of noise, and it's those are great [00:32:00] safe zones for Deere to escape too.

So it's man, if I can just contain that, like that's a natural bedding area that Deere already want to use, lemme just go in there and make a couple extra little pockets, some entry exit trails, and man, they're gonna just start loving places like that. So from a, from managing an invasive species perspective, that might not be like the best approach, but for overall habitat and like the performance of your property, if it makes the most sense, if you have 10 acres and you got a three acre honeysuckle patch, man, maybe you start finding ways to use that to your advantage rather than getting rid of it.

Now that a plus aspect of your property is just eliminated.

It's an interesting

Paul: perspective. I like honeysuckle, the Turkey hunt out of, I will say that.

Greg: Yeah, it is nice. It, it is a cool little thing to, it's a love up underneath. Yeah.

Paul: It's a love hate relationship. I guess so.

Greg: That's why it's man, I don't wanna [00:33:00] like step on any toes because I know like from a, from an invasive management perspective, like it might not be the best approach.

But man, if for me being the deer nut that I'm in, if the deer nut that I am, if the deer likes something and I can use it to my advantage, why would I remove it? So that's selfishly speaking that's one of the ways I can look at it.

Andrew: And I don't disagree with you on that.

I'm just thinking, and this is something I've always struggled with. We hear about plant na native plants and all that kind of stuff. And don't get me wrong, they're. Invasive plants are, you're ready to

Paul: put in Sudan grass, man you've sold the ship

Andrew: down the river, man, that'll frost and die.

It'll be gone. But things like honeysuckle that don't really provide a food benefit for many of our native animals, but they will, offer cover. So that's, something. But any of these invasives that are choking out your spring ephemerals and different things like that, man, it's a, it's weird.

And then you're just fighting mother nature and it's would that plant have gotten here anyways? We can point fingers at how it got here in the first place, or, I don't know, [00:34:00] man, it gets

Greg: yeah, just a challenge. Start looking down the evolution timeline and you're like, man, is it, does everything I'm doing here really matter?

Andrew: The emerald ash for was gonna come here at some point. And it just, maybe we just might have fast forwarded it, yeah.

Paul: But, so Greg let's talk about let's talk about Hunter access. So if I'm looking at a hunter access in conjunction with stand locations, so if you've got new access to a property when are you picking stand locations and what are you looking for?

Greg: So if say if a property is already has like a plan intact, I like to develop these travel corridors, bedding areas where the food is and how that all connects, and then pick those optimal. Stand locations off of that. Every property is going to have like just those slam dunk spots for me. I can just [00:35:00] walk up and look at a tree and be like, that's it.

That's the one. Let's find a way to make this spot work. But once the deer start to use the property the way that they want to use it, that's where you can start to pick apart just a little at a time. And even like to me, I would rather have, two to three just bulletproof a plus spots that are on predominant travel corridors rather than just like 10 average spots.

It's a quality over quantity for me. Whether I'm designing a property or I'm hunting it myself, I just really wanna make sure that access doesn't any way affect the how the deer using in the property. Really good way to do that is try to go at it as Access perpendicular to the way that the deer are walking through that zone.

So if a deer trail is east to west, try to come in from the south to north or north to south. Whatever the edge of [00:36:00] your property and the wind provides for you get that perpendicular access. And what that's gonna allow you to do is not cross paths with the deer because they're moving the opposite direction in front of you.

Paul: That's good stuff. Monz, you've got a small, several small properties that that you hunt. Are, do you feel like you're kinda limited to stand

Andrew: locations? Absolutely. Yeah. No. I'm all about that tree. You, I got one, one or two trees. We're gonna make 'em

Greg: work now, right?

Yeah. Yep.

Paul: Greg, what are things that, that hunters can do if they are hunting those small properties? That they're, they're those imaginary lines or actual fences or whatever it may be. What are some things that, that hunters can do or look for to change those tables in their odds for being in the

Greg: right spot?

Yeah, man, I like to, and that this kind of like ties into the whole, what can you do in the summertime to get the [00:37:00] most out of your hunting season? And I love to take the, because I just, I just obsess over deer all year long. Like it's just my jam. So I'm just always into it. I know a lot of people aren't spending as much time as I do, but take the summertime to really reflect on the past seasons of the property and how you're anticipating it based off of this year's food sources.

Are we dealing with a dry year this year? You can anticipate is that gonna affect the crops? Is that gonna affect the the mass protection in the hardwoods? And you can start to predict what is going to happen come the fall time to determine okay, this zone of my property, whether it's 10 acres or a hundred acres, is probably gonna be that hot zone.

So let me figure out how to access this the best way. So I do a lot of hunting out on public land actually, and like what I [00:38:00] do at this time of the year cause I've been coming down to Ohio even before I moved down here for a few years, where, I have these zones picked out that I know are just gonna annually have deer living in them and more than likely a buck that I want to chase.

So like I'll go out there right now and plan my access in and I'll like mock run in there. Like I'm not gonna tie the stand or anything on my back, but I'm gonna walk through the landscape and see exactly, okay, this is what the wind is doing actually on a southwest wind. Like I'm bringing that milkweed with me.

I call it wind mapping and I'm seeing like how those thermals and wind is happening. So if there's like a hidden, if there's a hidden thing that's hurting me at that time, I know when it doesn't matter. The beauty about these private land plans that I draw up is that you have the ability to manipulate the landscape, and you have the ability to access however you want without worrying about [00:39:00] other people.

Just kinda blowing your setup up. So if you aren't afraid to just kinda go out and spend a little time on the exterior part of your property in the summer, man, you can get so much good intel from like wind mapping, just observing what's going on, looking at tracks, everything like that.

I just try like in a nutshell, if you can just find out where the deer don't want to walk and you walk there that's like the best hunter access you can draw.

Paul: Let's talk about that, that summer months. Did you have something? Because we're getting ready to chase a rabbit down trail, man.

Greg, if you're ready, you let me know.

Greg: Oh I'm all, I'm always ready. So

Paul: The. Public lands, summer scouting, that's something that, that I've tried to put some effort into the last couple of years. I'm fascinated I like your idea of running through just like a mock entrance into the woods.

What's the wind doing? Talk about that wind mapping a little bit more. If you've got any, anything [00:40:00] left to talk about. That's very cuz an idiot like me, I go out, on the day of the hunt, and I'm like, oh, okay. That's what it does. Throw the milk.

I'm like, okay, but I've already ruined the entire area cuz I just stomped over.

Greg: What I'll do, I have a, I have just like a good story example of how this worked out really good for me. Unfortunately it just didn't bring in the buck that I wanted. So it happened last year. I found this white Oakridge that was just like red hot.

Like a week and a half before season last year that I glassed the the private ag around it all summer. And there was just some hammer box hanging out and I just, and there wasn't a lot of timber there, so I knew that if there were deer hanging out there still, and if there was oaks in there, I'm like, that's gonna be a great spot to be.

I had a camera collecting data in there all summer and I had these books on camera. But anyway, what I did the few weeks before the season opened was I walked in [00:41:00] there with my milkweed on a solid west wind, like a good probably 15 mile hour west wind at three in the afternoon, right about the time I would be headed in there.

And how this worked is the Oak Ridge was like a flat on the top, but it was almost like a washout next to it and it went right down to a creek bottom. And What I noticed when I was up on top of that oak flat was it was a straight west wind. Like I said, I could stand on the edge of that flat and my milkweed would drop right down that washout, which was directly northwest, so almost complete opposite direction of the wind.

So it was like that light bulb moment instantly went off I can come in here on a strong west wind and my scent is gonna blow the opposite direction. But those bucks are gonna walk right out of their bedding area and they're gonna come out on this oak ridge before hitting the beans. And then it's slam down.

Cause this is gonna work perfect. And it did. I just, on, unfortunately it wasn't the [00:42:00] buck I was after. I actually hunted this spot for the first like 10 days of season, morning and night. And I had this bulletproof access and every single day I seen like somewhere between four to seven of these bucks.

But it was never the shooter. I had two encounters with what I thought was him, but it was like right before or right after legal shooting light. And it was just too dark to see. But to be in the game like that consistently on a piece of public and have bulletproof access like That was all the proof I needed to be like, man, this wind mapping stuff works and what on the weather channel, or even if you feel it as you're walking, like that subtle tapo change where there's that washout, it can completely pull your scent the opposite direction.

And it's that's the deer's weakness because they don't know that's what's going on. But like we're able to collect those thoughts and break things down like that. Even if it takes us a while. Sometimes we're still able to do that and that put me in a position to take a buck if I [00:43:00] wanted to, or I was just waiting on that bigger guy.

Andrew: That's very fascinating and it's way more than my pee brain can handle at this point. Oh

Greg: man. Yeah. That's that's left me up many sleepless nights. That's 1130 at night. I'm laying in bed looking at the ceiling. I look at my wife, I'm like, I got it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get, I figured it out.

Yeah, Greg, go to sleep. You're not gonna do it.

Andrew: Now one of the things you talked about in there last year, you had beans in that field, right? So whether it's public or private or whatever, crop rotation, a lot of times we go in from corn to beans or beans of corn, vice versa. If that field that, and that could be, we'll pretend that your public land is actually somebody's private land.

Are you gonna modify anything there based on this year? If it's corn?

Greg: Yeah. Could be. Cuz the other factor that you have in too Is, are those White Oaks gonna produce like they did in 2022? You don't know until, and that's the other value of the summer scouting I've found, is it takes a little bit for [00:44:00] them to start to develop.

But man, once you start to get into that end of, I love to go out excuse me, like end of July area after a great big windstorm, wind and rain, when some of those branches drop off the oak trees. And that's just like free intel to be like, oh, yep, this one's gonna have it, this one's gonna have it.

And I can start marking those spots out. And I have an idea now. It's if I'm trying to scout a hundred acres and that has 500 oak trees on it, if I can narrow that down to okay, out of those 500 oak trees, I only found 30 that are dropping leaves that have acorns on 'em. So now I only have to scout 10 15 of that a hundred acres.

I'm just narrowing it down and pinching it down. To back to that, like I'm predicting where the deer are gonna spend the time, once that summer shift switches to that fall shift,

Paul: got

Andrew: something on. I got all kinds of stuff. I know you do. I know you're, I know you're, I'm trying if I need to elaborate [00:45:00] anymore on that. So let's just say that oak tree is still hot, right? You still got, you got another year. Good production of acorns out of that. Are you, does the corn come into play at all?

Greg: It can, yeah. Man, it's it's so hard for me because I've experienced. Deer in ag fields when every, like anything you read or hear people talk about on podcasts, like you're never gonna see a deer eating beans at X date at this time. And it's oh, looking through my binoculars, there's one right there.

So that's why it's so hard about listening to podcasts. I love, it's like a love hate relationship because I get so much good information, but it took me so long to realize that you can't take everything word for word and just drop it into what you have going on. You have to pick out those little parts of how can I use this to like a, almost like a bullet point list.

Like next time I go out into the wor woods, I remember when Greg said [00:46:00] this and this. How can I use that here? And you still have to have that application of the knowledge and try to learn when you're out there and not just take that information in. And that's like a. That's a big thing I try to do when I walk a client's property with them is I don't wanna just go out there to just draw up the plan.

I want to go out there and try to like, help them understand why the deer are doing what they're doing, so that way they have a little bit more intention behind the plan that they're drawing off.

Andrew: Gotcha. So if you pick up a new property, let's say just picked it up on July 1st, and I'm gonna, we'll just try to make it situational.

We'll say the landowners basically gonna give you the run of the mill to do what you want within reason, right? They don't want you to clear cut the whole place and make a giant food plot. But what are some things that people should be considering if they've got a new property Cutting?

Shooting lanes is always something I've thought about, like your access. Is there anything else they can do at this point in the year [00:47:00] to improve that? Is it, cut a tree here and there trying to try and redirect the deer or what would you do in that situation? I guess there's just gonna be situational.

Greg: Yeah, it's gonna be situational, but just like from a 10,000 foot overhead view, a really good opportunity to, even if like worst case scenario, you're just starting to gain inventory. If you get like that first look at the property and you can reasonably predict okay, this is how I think the deer are gonna move through here.

And you can create those travel corridors. I don't think that you're gonna do any harm by creating travel routes for the deer at any point because it doesn't take long. You can look around and. You can you can see like any kind of video of somebody saying I just cut this down and like 20 minutes later a deer showed up.

That's cuz there's food that you drop when you cut that tree down. So same thing if you're opening up that trail, whether it's cutting through a brush thicket, or cutting trees down and open up a hill, if [00:48:00] you make that trail. You can also add in a mock scrape and you just make that mock scrape so deliberate that they can't miss it.

Put it right smack dab in the middle of that travel corridor and they're gonna start to use it. And once they start to use it, that mock scrape location, like in a full good plan, I love to draw those up in places that you're gonna hunt because it gives the reason the Deere a reason to stop. But worst case, if you just are getting that property July 1st, and if you can have that set up in the right area where Deere are using, you're at least gonna start to get inventory and you're gonna know okay, these are the bucks that I'm working with this year.

They're at least on the property right now.

Andrew: So you mentioned the M scrape and leave it or hated, Ohio is a bait state. Yep. If you were to incorporate that into your property, private property, when would you suggest starting to put out a salt lick, a pile of corn, anything like that?

Greg: So that kind of works the [00:49:00] same way.

As far as like an inventory standpoint, that's like you said, love it or hate it. It is what it is. I personally don't do much with the corn, but what's so hard about it, especially if you're in an area where you got a lot of hunters around, you just know if I'm not doing it a, B and C down the road are, so what am I missing out on if I don't have something to attract 'em?

So really, if you're willing to put that effort in to have that attractant on your property, I don't think there's a wrong time to get started with it. Especially like if you're talking about the minerals and everything, ma'am. When you can help them with that growth, then you're just doing yourself favors for years and years to come.

By continuously giving them that. And what it's doing is it's just, it's making deer feel comfortable on your property. So that's where it's like you're creating this system throughout your property and if you have that mineral lick or if you are going with like the corn or whatever it may [00:50:00] be, you're getting deer to move through your property and nothing's bothering them.

So come the fall time, they're not gonna be weirded out. If you have that good hunter access, they're not gonna be weirded out about walking through your property cuz they've already done it for the last six, seven months. Got it.

Andrew: Paul, you got any other important questions? Cuz if not, I've got a little

Paul: random No, I'm just going to start wind mapping my little brains out.

Man. I that's my biggest weakness I think on. Cause I hunt a lot of public. Is that, scouting it, and a lot of that's just time, right? Scouting it during the summer, how the woods changed since last year. Taking in all of that, the historical data and making new decisions this year that's and how the wind moves.

And, that's

Greg: the, that was good man. I really, that's so a little bit more context on that. I'm like a big Excel nerd too,

Paul: oh, I'm sure you are. I could, I knew it. I was gonna ask you what kind of tatted points are you collecting every time you go out?

Greg: Yeah. So like over the years I've [00:51:00] developed this, like my own little program that if somebody else looked at it, they would just be like this doesn't make any sense, but it makes so much sense to me.

It's like a combination of Excel data. Google Earth Pro and my OnX and it's all kinda linked together, like I said in my own weird way. But it tells me that historical data of what we were talking about a little bit ago, like that spot I was telling you like will your plans change this year with that crop rotation with it being corn?

That's where I look back at my little program I have here and I can say, okay, what was going on last time this was corn? And if last year I had all these good bucks on camera and it was beans, but the year before that there's half the amount of bucks, I can start to attribute that to the corn because that's the only thing that was different.

So it's like I use Excel to pick out those differences. And once you have that, again, it starts to stack those [00:52:00] odds in your favor or it's I know I don't have to waste my time there because this spot has all of these other factors going for on the plus side of things.

Andrew: All right.

I'm gonna get you off the wind mapping Paul. Now, Greg I asked Tyler, God, I won't ask you more questions. I asked Tyler and Casey from the Element a couple weeks ago. What's your favorite tree to hunt out of? Favorite type of tree?

Greg: Man, that's such a hard question. It's a, it's gonna be a weird answer for me, but for some odd reason, I feel like I get the best hunts if I can hunt outta like a, just a tiny janky little apple tree.

It's super weird. Really weird, but, I like, can get into this area where I'm just like, man, and this is on public land, not on private. If I'm on private, I'm not gonna set somebody up in a janky apple tree. I promise. This is for pure selfish reasons, but it's if I get into an area and I'm just like, I know this is where I have to be, [00:53:00] there's always just this weird crooked apple tree there.

I'm like, I gotta get in that. And it always works out. I don't know why, but it always ends up being that weird little apple tree. I'm

Andrew: gonna, I'm gonna keep asking that question. Paul and I'm gonna guess that Greg might be the only person that says weird jenky apple tree.

Greg: I think so. Cause everyone's gonna have so different.

Yeah. If you looked at it from the ground or if I took pictures of 'em, you'd be like, there's no way I would hunt out that thing. But yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

Andrew: So we've talked a lot about different types of trees and that kind of stuff. Do you have. For the somebody who's not schooled or educated in tree identification, I think it can be somewhat nauseating as far as how do I even know what an apple tree is if it doesn't have apples hanging from it or the differences between white oaks, red oaks, maples beach trees go down the line. Ash trees, if you find any of those, you're not gonna have any leaves to work off of, but sure as hell don't wanna climb one. Do you have an app or is there a good resource that you suggest people go to to help them identify trees when they're out doing this summer?

[00:54:00] Scouting and habitat

Greg: management? Yeah, definitely. So I use, it's called Plant id. It's just a free app in the app store. You do have to be connected to the internet to make it work, but if you don't have internet wherever you're out scouting, walking around or whatever, you can just take the picture and put it into the app later.

And that did a really good job for me getting over that learning curve. I didn't. I found that to be so much more useful for like my learning style than reading everything in a book. Because when I read a book it's I'm reading it from front to back, but actually retaining the info I read is a lot different than it's oh, I can pull out my phone and I can take a picture of this and it's gonna instantly tell me what it is and then I can connect that leaf or bark or whatever it may be.

Because that app actually works for bark too. I've noticed if you get a good, clear picture of a tree, it's not as accurate as the Leafs, but it can still give you relative accuracy where, you know, if it's is this a feed tree or is this not a [00:55:00] feed tree kinda thing.

Andrew: Yeah, I think that's a, that's an important thing and that's what I went to school for and I probably forgot half of what I learned at one point.

Never hurts to brush up on some of that stuff, but definitely. Oh, I, that's all I got, Paul. You got anything else?

Paul: No I, Greg, where can people find you outta social media? That was great talk. Absolutely.

Greg: Yeah. Thank you. So I, I've been a little bit inactive on my Instagram over the summertime.

I've found that it's hard to keep people engaged with the white tail content all summer long, so I tone her back a little bit and just save up a lot of my stuff from the fall. But I stay most active on there. And that's gonna be it's whitetail underscore partners underscore Ohio.

And then the other thing I started doing, I started putting out more like blog articles on our website, which is, Whitetail partners.com. You can go to the learning center and it actually has links to like all the podcasts that we've done. Nice. We're starting to make [00:56:00] more YouTube videos and then, like I said, we're putting articles out there, just like good general info.

Just a good place to organize notes and everything. And then just put some stuff out there for guys if they're interested in learning a little different way. But if you ever have any questions or anything, you can Just get ahold of me on Instagram, just shoot me a dm and I'm always happy to talk about deer with somebody other than myself in the mirror.

So feel free to reach out.

Paul: Greg, I've really appreciated this man. We'll we'll have to get you back on, talk about some more pub land hunting stuff, so Yeah,

Greg: I would love that. That's my bread and butter, man. That sounds good to me. Good deal. Appreciate it. Thanks for,