In this episode of the How to Hunt Deer Podcast, Josh talks with Pierce Nelles about a few Hot Button Topics in the hunting world, live-stream cell cams and scent control.
Live-stream cell cams have caused quite a stir in the deer hunting world over the last couple of months. Are they ethical? Are they fair chase? Do they set a dangerous precedent? Are they going to RUIN DEER HUNTING?!
What about scent control and attractant scents like doe in heat urine? Do they work? Is it all a sham? Is the truth somewhere in the middle?
In this episode, the guys don't claim, but they do have some strong opinions!
Where do you think they got it wrong? Hit them up on Instagram and let them know!
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Check out the Sportsmen's Empire Podcast Network for more relevant outdoor content!
Connect with Josh and The Wisconsin Sportsman Podcast on Instagram.
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Connect with Pierce & Good Chance Fly Fishing on Instagram.
Big thanks to our partners!
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Welcome to the How to Hunt Deer podcast, which is brought to you by Attack Camp. This podcast aims to educate those who are interested in becoming deer hunters, brushing up on essential skills, or maybe just adding a few new tactics to the toolkit. Here we cover a variety of topics that will help you be more confident and successful in the field while you're hunting deer.
Thank you so much for tuning in this week. I've got my buddy Pierce Nellis on the line already. Pierce, what's up man? Not much, man. Just enjoying the off season. Yeah. Thinking about [00:01:00] deer, getting ready for turkeys. It's a weird thing this time of year, dude. Like I, yes, it is. I was talking with some guys earlier and I was like, I don't know what to do with my hands right now.
Literally, what should I be doing? There's a lot that I should be doing, like cleaning this basement that I'm sitting in right now where my podcast studio is. But I don't know, man, I don't want to do that. I want a deer hunt or Turkey hunt and those things are not upon us. No we're in like the dog days of the off season right now.
It's like last deer season is what, four months away now? Yeah. And the next year's, season's, what, six now or so? Like it's six or seven. I guess it's just a weird time, . Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And there are probably guys listening to this in Alabama who just finished hunting like two and a half weeks ago who were like, what's your problem?
Or guys down in Florida who like wrapped up last week and they're like, wait a second. They're still deer season, still close enough but not for me, man. Yeah it's way out there on on the [00:02:00] horizon yet, but so I thought I'd switch things up this week and have a little bit of fun with the episode.
We've done a lot of really serious stuff on the How to Hunt Deer podcast, really focused on education and that kind of thing. But I wanted to have you on and talk a bit about just some hot button issues. Like basically I feel like ranting on some stuff and maybe ruffling some feathers and maybe getting some messages that are positive, maybe some that are negative and just opening up feedback's.
Good. What's that? Feedback's good. Yeah, man. I just want to open up some conversations because I, like we were talking about, it's the dog days of the off season. Like what else is there to do? We can talk about post-season scouting until we're blue in the face. Ultimately, here's your postseason scouting tip.
Go. Go do it and go look for stuff that Deere did. . You could do the Dan Johnson, maybe find the shed . Yeah. Do the Dan Johnson tip. Go where deer live and look at the ground. Yeah, I guess that works. But anyway, so I wanted to [00:03:00] talk a bit, what's that? Didn't work for me last week. No.
And I, I mentioned it on the Wisconsin Sportsman episode that I did for this week where I was like, yeah, that's great. But if that was the case then, if it was that simple, you'd expect, antlers to be evenly distributed across the landscape, you would you wouldn't expect what we actually find, which is antlers concentrated in certain areas.
Yeah. Which anybody that sheds shed hunts will tell you that. And that might be great for Iowa, where there are lots of freaking sheds that are really big. , it's probably not good for Alabama. Probably not gonna help you a whole lot there. No. So anyway, very situational. But but at the same time, like now granted I'm a really bad shed hunter.
Ah, you and me both. But I find sheds when I'm doing anything, butt shed hunting. I've found him while fishing. I've found him while Turkey hunting pheasant hunting I mean out for a hike, walking the dog, you name it. But if I go out with the intent of [00:04:00] finding a good shed or any shed at all for that matter, I can't do it.
For some reason the the deer gods are like, your luck ended in November and now you get to wait for another 12 months cuz, maybe we'll throw you a bone. But yeah, for the most part I, it's, it is completely, totally dumb luck for me. . Yeah. You do not get to hold another antler until next November.
Nope. . , man. That's awesome. Hey, listen, before we get too far into the episode, Pierce, I do want to say a big thanks to our partners. This is weird. I've never done this part with another person on on the line already, but this is, you nailed the intro yeah, man, you know what? I did it. I, okay.
Yeah. First of all, this podcast is brought to you by T Cam. They're the title sponsor of this show. Right now they've got their 6.0 camera, which gives you 4K 60 frame per second footage. It's got awesome image stabilization, great low light performance, and Pierce, you can speak to my t cams.
You've seen me dragging those things around. What do you think about 'em? You saw 'em, you saw them [00:05:00] during Turkey season and during season. Yes, I did. Yes. What you think I did? They're I was impressed with your setup, whether it be the barrel mount or the little clip on with the the flexible arm that you would latch onto the tree and stuff while you were bow hunting.
Hang out the tree that was. That's a Bendi clamp. Yeah, that's called the Bendi camp. That made by Taca. What's that? Is that made by Tcam? Yeah. Everything I had was Tcam. So all the mounts, all the adapters, they do all that stuff. And I love that bendi clamp because you can, for Turkey hunting you can obviously, I like to curl it up like a little snake and set it out in decoys cuz it'll just sit there.
I've used it. I've used it attached to a to a decoy before to get some pretty sweet footage. And then I also like the over the shoulder look where it's like behind you looking down the barrel. Yeah. Which is really cool. Yeah dude, so if you don't have a t to cam camera, if you're thinking about filming your hunts, you're thinking about sharing 'em with your friends or loved ones or putting 'em on YouTube or whatever it is, go check 'em out T to cam.com.
They've also got the solo extreme camera, [00:06:00] which is a little more budget friendly. I think it's somewhere around, I'm not gonna quote the price cuz I'm gonna get it wrong, but go to taxi cam.com and you'll find that next up hunt worth. Hold on here. Not to mention the the little remote that comes with that bad boy.
Oh yeah. So if you can link all the cameras together Yes. Send, you can punch one of them on or all of 'em on at once. Just press a button without having to tap every single one of 'em. Yeah. That is pretty freaking sweet in my mind. That's the game changer. For these things. If they didn't have the remote, I would find them a lot less useful.
Yeah. So if you don't have a remote and you've gott to cam cameras, you really don't know what you're missing. If you're gonna go to buy a, tact cam point of view camera, whether it's the solo extreme or the 6.0, grab that remote because they are incredible and they can turn on, I think it's up to seven cameras.
Or something. They like a bunch of them all on one remote and it's super easy. And they give you a little bit of a buzz too, so they buzz and vibrate just enough to let you know that they're turning on. So if you've got one on your weapon or got [00:07:00] one like mounted right close to you, you can tell, like you see a small light come on, and then like you feel a little bit of a buzz or you can hear just a tiny bit of a buzz.
Not enough that any animal's gonna detect it, but enough to let you know Hey, your camera's on and rolling. Yeah. So yeah, man, those are sweet. Next up hunt worth. Man, what'd you think of my hunt worth stuff? So you, I love you. Do not wear hunt worth stuff. You've got some good camo. You've got good stuff.
I do, yeah. But this was my first year hunting out of some hunt worth stuff, and I feel like I blended in really well. Yeah, like I thought their camo pattern was pretty legit. What did you think? You're running that tarin pattern, right? Yeah, dude, it's sweet. Yeah, it looks really good. What did you think as far as like diversity?
Do you think that's good for multiple settings? ? I would say so, yeah. Cause you were running the same stuff for Turkey season, weren't you? No, I had not hunted out of the Tarn yet. Oh, that's right. But I did have, so I was hunting with a long sleeve shirt that was a similar pattern [00:08:00] to Tarn.
. But it's a, it's actually a different brand. Okay. And when I say similar, it's missing some really important things. What that one didn't have is the light spots, like the Yep. The, it was really compressed . And so when you back off, it just looks like a big black blob, whereas the turn pattern's got enough open space in it that Yep.
It really breaks you up a lot better. Absolutely. But man, I stayed warm. I stayed comfy. If you want some hunt worth gear, go to hunt worth gear.com. Highly recommend them. Especially because it's not gonna break the bank. You're not gonna have to explain why you spent all that money on camo because you went with the wrong company.
Anyways. Thanks for putting up with me and the commercials there. Pierce . Let's let's jump into the topic of today. I want this podcast to be able to develop a little bit of its own personality, right? I took this podcast over from someone else, it, from Dan. He had done a great job with it, had guys from the NDA on they had done a phenomenal job.[00:09:00]
It was very informational, and so I want a little bit of who I am and who my guests are to come through a little more clearly, rather than it being this like sterile classroom kind of environment. And so today we are literally just gonna be talking about hot button issues. And if I can ruffle some feathers or pierce, if I can make you mad at me, I think that would be a super cool episode.
If I could just tick you off to where, that's the bar for you. Yeah, that is the bar because. I'm not gonna see you in person until April 19th when I come up with Turkey hunting. True. So you've got a long time to get over it. . So if I can make you upset with me, I think that would be pretty sweet.
be your worst. I think people would listen . If anything, if we could make anyone angry, I think that would be a Yeah. You think it'd be a win? It's the off season. It's we've got nothing better to do, but push some buttons, yeah, that's right. I think we we ought have [00:10:00] at it. That's right.
Yeah. If you get mad at me after this episode about my opinion or Pierce's opinion on something like it's fine. Just take the summer off, come back and listen, late July, early August, you'll be over it by then. And you'll be able to enjoy the podcast again. So kill a Turkey, you'll feel better.
There you go. Go take your aggression out on a gobbler. That's, man. I'm gonna do another episode this year on how to become a better deer hunter by Turkey hunting. , because I just think that the lessons you learn in the Turkey woods dude are huge when it comes to deer hunting. Especially when it comes to putting moves on an animal. We've talked about that before. Yep. When it comes to just how animals use the terrain, because you'll notice like deer and turkeys used terrain very similarly. Oh yeah. And so yeah. So I think it's I think it's just gonna be a good topic.
But today talking hot button, hot topic kinds of issues. I wanna start off with something that's been making the rounds here lately, [00:11:00] and I've intentionally not approached this topic because I wanted to hear out the different views that are out there. And that has to do with cell cams, specifically the cameras that are live.
Like you can pull up your app. And you can get a live feed from your camera to your cell phone. And whether or not that is fair, chase, I'm curious to hear your thoughts. I personally currently run some cell cams. I don't know how I feel about a live feed man. , what do you think? I'm right there with you.
I I think cell cams in themselves are I think they're enough of a they're, they really are. They're enough of a cheat code really, in my opinion. You're not having to go in there, you're not laying a bunch of scent down. You're getting more or less real time photos as is or video, whatever it is, you know that sure, there's a couple minute delay or whatever it is.
[00:12:00] But I, as far as having eyes on animals at all times, I really think that's about as. as far as I would like to go, in my opinion. Yeah. I, I think, I don't remember who I was listening to. I think it might have been Mark Kenyon where he was talking about the fact that, you could in theory see a buck hereafter on camera and then basically just essentially be on a one-way zoom call with this thing on your way out to kill it.
It, it just doesn't seem like fair chase to me. I'd have to draw the line there. I think cell cams, again, just having that couple minutes of delay, if you're there and you're within, 150 yards and that thing goes off well okay. Say it's been five minutes, you're not, you've got a pretty good idea where that deer's going.
Yeah. Or where it is and that kind of stuff. I really, I think I draw the line at cell cams and the live stream stuff can stick to the the office use. Yeah. And man, see that's where it gets me though. Like I am [00:13:00] not okay with someone getting a sale cam picture or pulling up the live stream and seeing a deer in a food plot or seeing a deer at a feeder walking out their back door, 75 yards and shooting it.
There was this lady on Instagram, did you see that video? No, I did not. So there's a video floating around out there where she's obviously she's got these sponsors and she's plugging the product and all that stuff. And her husband's high fiving her. She was sitting at home by herself. Cell cam picture comes through, she grabs the rifle.
The high powered rifle. . Yep. Walks out back and shoots the deer standing at the feeder to me. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. So to me that is even too far with the cell cameras. Now I don't think that means cell cameras should be eliminated or no outlawed or banned, but I think it brings up a point of pretty much anything [00:14:00] can be used unethically.
Yeah. Oh yeah. And on top of it, you didn't, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Boone and Crockett system put in a, what's the word I'm looking for here? Not a blue pole, but Si a little clause. In their regulations were basically, they said if you kill a deer over a cell cam, it doesn't count.
Yeah. And so I, I think they're on the right track there. Cuz again, you can do exactly the scenario that you just said. Yeah. And that kind of stuff. So let me ask you this. from an ethical standpoint, do you think there should be, I don't know, like a distance restriction on like your proximity to the camera or unless you're, like, already hunting or in the stand, or how do you think that would yeah.
See, my, my concern with regulation regarding it is simply [00:15:00] that how are you really gonna enforce that? Oh, yeah. Like your ability to enforce any of that kind of regulation stuff, even when it comes to Boon and Crockett Club, yeah, they took a step in the right direction for what they're doing, but what they're gonna do, you shoot a Spooner buck, they're, you're gonna bring it to be scored and they're gonna say, we're you near a cell camera? And you're gonna say, Nope, . And it's gonna go into the, you know what I mean? They're not gonna. . That's very true. Although they're not gonna ask that buck like, Hey, Mr.
Buck, did you pass a cell camera recently? Did you walk by one? But Right. Although I think there is potentially room in I think there's room in the software for, as these cell cams continue to advance or as well as the apps, linked to the phone and stuff like that.
I think there's, I think there's an opportunity there where if you were to try and address that, you could in theory have it set up so that the cell camera will not send you a photo if you're within,[00:16:00]
Whatever distance Yeah. X number of miles or whatever of the camera, I like that. So then it's you can't be that close. And then I like that, you can in your truck and f if you're that close anything. And if you are that close, you're not getting any pictures. Yeah. Ah, okay.
I think that's an easy. . That's an easy safeguard to that situation. Yeah, man. I think you're right. And we've, the tech's already there. Yeah. These cameras are already equipped with gps, a lot of 'em. , things like cutting back digital. We know a camera can talk to your, to other cameras and can tell where your phone is at and all that kind of stuff, yeah, man, the tech's already there. Let's talk then about the live streaming, because here's the problem, I think that's probably too far for hunting, but I want one
Honestly, because here's why. If I am sitting around on October 30th and I can't hit the woods , and I've got this [00:17:00] camera in my food plot, I wanna watch that food plot, dude. I wanna see what comes out. Like I wanna, I wanna sit there. Working at my office or at my desk in my office and pull up a browser window and watch what's happening on there.
I wanna see I wanna see what's going on in that field in that moment so that, I get a little bit of a hunting fix out of there. Yeah. What do you totally, what do you think? That's not wrong, right? I just wanna watch Deer Man. I wanna show, I wanna keep my kids and I wanna say, guys, come look at what's out in the field right now.
Yeah. I do I like that idea a lot. And I think there's I think there's a market for it for sure. Again, I think it comes down to if we're looping back to the ethics of it, would it only run a feed if you are ex distance away from you? . If you were to try and safeguard it, or you can only run live cameras, Nine months of the year, but you can't from, or I guess, 10 months of the year, whatever you, whatever it may be.
Yeah. They won't send anything or they won't work [00:18:00] or they operate as a cell cam only or something yeah. Within October, November or something like that. Like what do you think about that? Because I'm right there with you. I would love to be able to do that and watch stuff, year round and I think it's a great opportunity to let people, especially keep an eye on their properties and stuff like that.
Oh yeah. Whether it be just, if you've got one strictly for security and you put it, at the gate to your property or whatever it may be yeah. You ever get, I'm not opposed to 'em by any means, . Yeah. You ever get a picture on your on your cell cam when you have a delay set and it's somebody that walks by and noticed your camera and you're sitting there anxiously holy crap, are they gonna steal this thing or not?
right? So you're waiting, like you're, you've got a five minute delay or whatever it is, and you're like, oh no. How cool would it be to be able to flip it on and say no, I wanna see what's happening right now. A little that I have a little pepper spray nozzle. Little oh, there you go.
You can hit like a little safety button. . No, dude, I wanted to spray dough and es right in their face. Oh, that'd be good. Just full on dough and [00:19:00] Esther. Tasty. Yeah. right in the face. Yeah. I like the idea of safeguards that are built in. Yeah, I like that idea. I think there are some other things that go into it too, though, such as terrain.
Yeah. If I'm hunting in the deep south, let's say, and in a pine plantation that's not the same and I see a buck, right? And in this pine plantation on my live camera feed, say what you want. That is not the same as me seeing a deer in a picked cornfield in southern Wisconsin during the rifle season.
It's not the same . It's not the same. You do not have the same potential of getting up on that deer. Close enough for a shot. In Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Texas, Florida, spots of Wisconsin. It's, it's not just a state by state thing. If you've got that camera back in the timber, [00:20:00] what are the odds you're really gonna get in there and get a shot at that thing?
Yeah. Probably pretty slim. So yeah, so I think it's so situational on, on, on that front. But like I said, I want one, I wanna watch , I want, I wanna watch what's going on. And I think it, it really just highlights, safeguards can be great and all of that. , but it really highlights the importance of.
We can't necessarily legislate or safeguard ourself towards a better and more ethical hunter. We just need to create better and more ethical hunters. That's a standard amongst yourselves and Yeah. That's where this whole self-policing thing comes in. , where, like that video on Instagram now, I looked at the comments, they were catching some crap for it.
Yeah. And I think, rightly rightly they should have caught crap for that. Yeah. That was not hunting, that was shooting. , like literally that was just shooting. I lumped that in the same category of, shooting a deer at [00:21:00] night. Good job. You hit it . Okay. It was a target. You hit it with a gun.
That's not that difficult. Congratulations. So anyway, yeah. We need to make better, more ethical hunters. I want one. Safeguards are a good idea. If you were to drop one of your if you were to acquire one, where would you put it? It had one, one state, one property, one state, one property. I would put it in Alabama on the home farm on the far back.
Food plot because All right. We've got three different plots. The one in the very back is the one where a couple of times a year in February, we get two or three bucks cruise through this tiny little food plot. Middle of the day. I'm talking 12 to two o'clock. We don't have a cell camera back there. All we have is a standard SD [00:22:00] card camera, and usually by the time we check the SD card we've missed him.
Em, he's come through there on February 3rd, fourth and fifth, at sure high noon. Or just something stupid. So I would have it there. I need to get a cell camera on that place anyway. And my dad's got cameras that he runs, but none of 'em are cell cameras, so I need some back there anyway.
But yeah, that's where it would be. And it, it's just one of our better producers for right deer on the property. Just get a lot of deer. There's a pine thicket to the what would that be? The east of the property. That's, getting a little older now for, to be good bedding, but it's been phenomenal bedding in the past and probably getting ready for a thinning.
So it's probably about to be good bedding again. Sure. That's still where the deer come from. I just had a thought here. Do you think there's any sort of discrepancy on the use of those live feed cameras on public versus private land? Would you like it if [00:23:00] somebody, if you and the family.
Go for a hike or whatever on some public land, wherever it is. Or you're hunting or you're fishing or whatever it may be, you're outside on some public ground and you all of a sudden you're hiking. You look up and you see somebody's, they sell camps. What are we calling these things?
I don't even know. I haven't . Yeah, dude, they're not quite cell cams. They're like, they're live. They're live cam, they're livestream. They're livestream cameras. Livestream cameras for, we use that terminology. If you saw one of those bad boys on public land, I think I'd be a little pissed.
That's just me. Yeah. I wouldn't like it. I wouldn't like it a little violated. No, I would. I wouldn't like it. But granted, you are on public ground, so Really you are. Yeah. You're on public. What's the difference between that and some creepy guy in a Gilly suit sitting in the bushes watching him?
. That's true. That's true. Yeah. And what are you doing that you're worried about? People seeing you out there, Pierce. . Yeah. Touche. . But no, that's a good point. Like that's different than, I get [00:24:00] bust, get caught on a trail camera. Somebody gets a picture of me or a 32nd video of me.
I caught two people last year peeing cuz my cameras were set up on scrapes and . I got videos of these guys peeing. One of the guys turns around and sees the camera and just, oh no. And just smiles super big. I can't believe you just got that. And then he walked off. He didn't bother with it. So I guess he was pretty confident in himself, but, oh, what do you do at that point?
Yeah. I was, I, let's keep this between you and me. Yeah. And yeah. Now this podcast. Yeah. And I, yeah. Now this podcast, and I saved that video. So that was you were hunting some Wisconsin. What's that? Why'd you save that one? Huh? Because it's hilarious. Oh, and I show it to people. I do, I show it to people, man.
I love to I haven't posted it on Facebook or anything yet, or Instagram, but I, yeah. So if you're in southern Wisconsin and you [00:25:00] were peeing in a scrape and you turned around to see a camera, roughly 11 feet or so, up in the tree behind you, and you gave it a big smile and you have blonde hair hit me up
Cause , I caught you peeing in a scrape. A dozen people listening right now are like, shit, . This guy saw it. He had sunglasses on. He definitely knew the camera was there. Yeah, very fair. And it was in October. So do you ever a deer hunt the sunglasses on? Oh, all the time. Really? All the time. You don't get worried about the glare?
No. Okay. No. Interesting. I'm not worried. I early season, I love wearing the sunglasses. All right. Sure. Love it. I'll wear 'em Turkey yaning too. Now if I'm working a bird, I take 'em off. Okay, gotcha. But I'll wear 'em Turkey yaning, just cuz it's some of the places where I hunt, man, where I'm crossing a 70 acre cornfield.
, that's just brutal, man. It's hot, it's bright. Yeah. I need a little bit of a respite , from the brutal rays that are beating down on me. Yeah. Yeah. But man, I th [00:26:00] I think we've covered that one. I think there's a lot of room to go wrong with a live stream camera.
I think I want one, and that's about all . But I want one for my use. But the rest of you should maybe be like, on an every other basis, it's, yeah. I, it's probably gonna go too far and be like most things. Yeah. Like most things, it's probably gonna be taken too far. But hey, we haven't outlawed guns yet, and people shoot deer at night with guns all the time.
So this is true. Yeah, but I don't know. Hey guys, just want to take a quick minute to let you know that the How to Hunt Deer Podcast is brought to you by Tcam makers of the best point of view cameras on the market. For hunters and anglers, they're on the cutting edge, making user-friendly cameras to help the everyday outdoorsmen share your hunt with friends and loved ones.
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Share your hunt with Tcam. Next topic. . I gotta cover this one. Cause this one hopefully Ruff will ruffle some feathers too. I know one individual who will really get ruffled if I start pushing this. Oh boy. Scent control . All right, number one, do you do anything actually should we talk about whether we do any scent control stuff or whether we think it works first?[00:28:00]
They're the same thing. Yeah, they're the same thing. They're also I feel like it's almost like the feel like everyone's got their own personal routine and ritual for making like the mental shift of okay, I just got up out of bed, now I am getting on my stuff.
That has been, in. Sealed tote or just sprayed down, or I'm in the truck smoking a dart and I'm gonna grab my bow and hike up their, my flannel. You know what I mean? Yeah. I,
I think above all else at the end of the day, if you got bad wind I don't think there's a whole lot that's gonna save you. I really don't. But I think there are too many scents that come out of the human body when you say it like that, we just sound like disgusting creatures from a number of orifices
Yeah. I just don't think there's any way to, to send proof everything, whether, I think it's a marketer's [00:29:00] dream. Yeah. I really do. Yeah. You can sell the heck outta that stuff, any which way you want, I think. Yeah. And until you can talk to a deer, you literally can't prove it wrong.
Know like you literally can't prove it wrong until you can sit down and have a conversation with a deer. I think, gosh, I don't know. I think the big things that I've just from my experience had it come down to is I always wear rubber boots when I'm going into the field.
So I don't leave too much scent going, on the ground. I try and keep everything pretty darn tight so I'm not brushing a bunch of stuff and then I like to get high up in a tree and that is pretty much my scent control. Yeah. I like getting at. at least 18 to 20 feet up. Maybe a little bit more with the saddle hunting this year.
Figured I could get away with a lot less. But I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that you're standing and, you're essentially looking like one [00:30:00] branch of the tree rather than your a sitting blob hanging off of this thing where you need a little bit more stuff breaking up your silhouette.
But yeah, in my experience, in my opinion, that's all I really do. I guess I do hang my stuff out on the back porch year round. Just what gets a little bit more of a natural scent, if you want to call it that. Yeah. I don't know. I think the wind is, the wind in the deer's nose are the two things that you gotta contend with.
Yeah. I agree. Man. If you don't have the wind, you're done. Like it just, or you're not done. But that doesn't mean your scent control routine worked. Like it, it means a thermal pulled just right and you got away with it, right? Yep. Or it means for some reason that deer did not have a strong negative reaction to it.
Yep. I have had deer have no reaction when getting down wind, and I've had deer have [00:31:00] huge reactions when getting down wind. I used to be a scent control freak man. Like I would, I washed my clothes literally, if I was going hunt, if I wasn't hunting two days in a row, I would wash my clothes in between, like I would come home, throw my clothes to wash really, and wash 'em
And then I would air dry them outside and then I would soak them in activated carbon water. , right? Like the, got the black stuff all in the water. Yep. I would soak them in tubs of that air, dry them again, store them in scent proof bags that are airtight. Yep. With, sticks and leaves and all kinds of stuff that I got from the area where I hunt.
And then I would literally drive to the place where I was going and I was hunting all public land. I would drive to the place where I was hunting, get out of the car, and literally strip down and get dressed right there in the parking lot. . [00:32:00] I like it man. I had multiple pairs of gloves that I would stay gloved up the whole time because I wasn't touching.
Wait, do rubber gloves or I would start with rubber gloves. Like when I was unpacking everything, I had rubber, I had legit latex rubber gloves on. because I wasn't gonna touch anything and I would do. What did this scent Control method cost you on an annual basis? Oh, it was ridiculous. , it was my number one, it was my number one cost.
Sure. To deer hunt by far. And the amount of time that it took is probably why I didn't hunt as much as I should have because I drove my wife nuts, . Like it was bad. And even during all of this, like I would get busted. I would have, deer would see or would smell me and turn inside out. Or you go out and you get sweaty and you realize, boy, this activated carbon's not doing anything for me.
I've, and I've tried the St lock suits. I've done it all. And [00:33:00] at the end of the day I just decided, man, even if this stuff does work, like even if it helps me a little bit, it sucks so bad to go to those extremes. Yeah. That I don't want to do it. . It just, it SAPs the fun out of hunting.
Sure. And so I threw all of that stuff out the window. Now I do to this day use ozone. And the reason I use ozone is because I notice a marked difference in the amount of body odor that builds up in clothing. If I go out and I get sweaty in the clothes, I take 'em off when I come home, even once they've aired out or dried out or whatever, you can still smell it smells like sweat, right?
Yep. Throw 'em in the ozone bag. They don't smell like sweat anymore. Like to me, that's a win. And I just don't feel like washing the clothes. Yeah. So honestly, it's more so that my stench doesn't just build up and build up rather than, I'm thinking [00:34:00] I'm getting away with something.
So you, do you still use that? I do, yeah. Ozone bag. Gotcha. I do use the ozone bag. I use a Sink Crusher ozone bag. Sure. And dude it's awesome. Like all my clothing fits in there. , so I just carry that with me. So if I'm in Alabama or if I'm here in Georgia, or if I'm in Wisconsin or whatever, I've always got that bag with me and it's got everything in it.
Sure. It's big enough to have it all. What's that? It travels pretty well. Oh yeah. It's a duffle, so Really? Yeah. Just throw that sucker over your shoulder and it's got a little pouch on the end for the for the ozone generator. Yep. Plug it into your car lighter when you're on your way there.
Start, it runs the cycle. You're good to go. How long does the cycle take? You can time it, so like you can set it. Okay, gotcha. I always do it on the longest setting because at heart I've still got, we're still that party that wants to believe that it's really dude. There, there's that part of me that wants to do it real good if I'm doing it right.
You know what I mean? If I'm gonna do it, I wanna do it real good. But yeah, man, so I do that, but it's [00:35:00] not from a, from a. Thinking I'm getting away with something perspective, it's more so that I don't smell myself because I don't like to stink. Sure. Yeah. Are you running any any antimicrobial clothing?
Any like Marino or anything like that? That's, yes. I've noticed a big difference in that. Yeah. So I've got some Marino that I've worn. My problem with Marino is when it gets wet , it has a little bit of a smell to it. Yep. That Willy smell. Yep. Yeah. Yep. And I don't like that a lot. I did switch over to the hunt worth synthetic base layers this year, and I found them to be pretty much as warm as Marino of the same weight, if that makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah. If it's the same thickness as the Marino you've got on, then it, you're gonna be just as warm and I think it's got some antimicrobial properties to it. Sure. . Yeah. So I do, if I was gonna buy some some base layers, like it being [00:36:00] antimicrobial wouldn't be important to me.
Okay. Does that make sense? Gotcha. Cause I'm gonna run it through ozone anyway. It's not gonna it's not gonna have that much on it. And once I take it all off, I'm gonna run it through the ozone. It's gonna kill everything that's on it anyway. Sure. I do think there may be some value, and this is because of something Tony Peterson told me, there might be some value in some sprays that make you smell like you're further away than you actually are.
So rather than smelling like you're 30 yards away, it diminishes your scent profile enough to make you smell like you're 150 yards away or whatever it is. In that case, the goal isn't to eliminate your scent. It's to not smell like a threat. . Does that make sense? Yeah.
Yeah. Weren't you telling me, cuz Tony's a big bird dog guy. Wasn't he testing a bunch of different sprays and stuff with his dogs and Yep. Yep. And I think he used, I th you can go back and [00:37:00] listen to that episode. So it's the last one me and Tony did together. Gosh, I think that was in August of this year.
Something like that. Something August, September, some, somewhere in there. Either way. Last time Tony was on this show, we talked about it. He had tested a bunch of different ones, and I think it was the code blue aerosol. The Tinks. Oh, tins. Yeah. It was the Tinks, yeah. Yeah, it was the tins aerosol. That stuff's hard to find.
That's what he's, he was like, I don't even know if they make it anymore. Yeah. So I haven't found it. It may be out there floating around in his basement. He probably does. Dude, that's probably lots of this stuff. . That's probably why he kills all this deer. He does , but he's also a big believer in the and rubber boots.
. I am, but I hate to wear rubber boots, so I go with hikers most of the time. However, I have seen a big difference in the way deer react to my ground scent whenever I'm wearing hikers compared to rubber boots. But with my with [00:38:00] my hunting style, a lot of times I'm hunting around where people hike anyway, or where, bird hunters walk through anyway.
Yeah. And so it doesn't really matter. They smell it, they're alerted to it. They pick it up really quickly, but they don't necessarily bolt out of there because they're like, okay, there's a bird hunter, or there's a hiker in here. I just need to move through here carefully. You know what I mean?
They're not like, oh crap, there's, human smell in the middle of my bedding area, or whatever it may be. They're. , they're a little bit used to, to smelling people in that. I think so much of it has to do with how much pressure a certain area gets, how much human traffic it gets, and also just like the really, like the demeanor of the deer.
Yeah. You know what I mean? If a deer is strung out and just really on edge of it catches a whiff, odds are that thing's gone. But if it's just cruising in and, doesn't have a care in the world. Yeah. I was on public ground this was that October I think it was. Same kind of thing.
Literally right off of a hiking trail. [00:39:00] And I had three dos come in and follow my exact path. Yeah. Like just sniffing the ground almost curiously. Yeah. To the point where they got right underneath my stand and were like, one of 'em was licking one of the rungs of my climbing sticks.
Like it was, they were just, they're like, I wanna taste it. . Yeah. Just like I've gotten a whiff. I want the real thing, baby, but it's . Dang. That's crazy. I, that was the one that they wouldn't I would, that was my first real saddle hunt, and I made the mistake of thinking they were gonna come to the wrong side.
Oh, yeah. I crossed everything over my bridge and then I needed to turn, and I had no cover between me and the deer, and they were like, literally right below me and I was like, I can't turn around right now. . Yeah. Yes. I'm watching deer tonight. . Oh, yeah, man. That adjustment to, to saddle hunting is tough, but I think it becomes second nature really quickly.
Yes, definitely. I'm curious to hear your feedback on that. Even, . I didn't get a [00:40:00] count on how many days I had out of the saddle this year, but I know just from that day and just figuring that and I'm just shooting up the learning curve and stuff like that. Yeah. I think the biggest thing I really gotta do for next year is get better at picking trees.
Yeah. And silence my climbing sticks. . Yeah. Yeah. You'll find the kind of tree that you like and how you like to approach it and, it's a little bit different, a little bit different for everybody. Sure. You like skinny trees, don't you? I do. I like tiny little trees. And here's the reason, because that usually means I'm close to bedding.
Sure. If I'm in where the trees are small, then that means I'm in where it's thick and brushy. Yeah. And yeah, it's just, and it's, just the nature of the places where I hunt. If I hunt the big timber, I'm out of the game. Yeah. True. I'm just not in it. So now out there where you hunt, , you can be all up in the game in big timber in southwest Wisconsin, where I'm at, south central Wisconsin [00:41:00] it's, I'm probably gonna be outta the game now.
There are spots where, you know, Oak flats and that sort of thing, but some of my favorite stuff is a lot more marshy and so if I'm in the big timber, I'm way, I'm a hundred yards from where I could expect to really see deer. Sure. Sure. But man, this time's going by really quickly.
We've been we've been at it for 45 minutes. Have it now. Yeah. Let me ask you this on the on the note of scent control. Yep. What's we take on do Esri Buck scent, any urine slash hormone hunting supplement on the market? and I. , I think that I'm about to blow any chance I ever had of a partnership with Code Blue or anything like that?
No. I think any urine based scent is garbage. All right. I think any urine [00:42:00] based sin is garbage because not only is it gonna oxidize the moment you take that top off, it's gonna start oxidizing. The moment you pour it out, you have a small window of time until that urine basically breaks down to ammonia.
Yep. And the deer can't tell what it is. It's a fox, human raccoon, deer, coyote. They don't know what it is. It's ammonia. . And because I just don't necessarily trust the product, like I watched several doughs this past this past. Fall mostly on trail camera if they were being pushed around by a buck, especially a small buck before, before the rut really got going.
, they would run off, away from the buck a little bit, squat down, pee, and then run off. The buck would come over, smell it, and then go back to his business. He'd go the other direction. And I've witnessed this in person quite a few times. Yeah. It was like, these doughs were telling these bucks, I'm [00:43:00] not ready yet.
Sure. It was like their way of saying like, all not quite you need to back off, dude. Yeah. Which makes a lot of sense. . And so I, I think that's a possibility. I think it's possible that, you get the wrong dope piece sent, like you could do the wrong thing.
Yeah, totally. Like even if it totally, even if it does maintain its integrity after putting it out , you could be communicating like, Nope, she ain't ready. Go the other way, boss. And who wants to do that. Yeah. I have seen and heard enough good success out of some different glands, especially.
, there's a product called Smokeys. Okay. I've heard a, he's got a pre orbital gland. Oh, sure. I've heard a lot of good stuff about that. Starting mock scrapes. Gotcha. Have you ever started or have you ever saved tar glands or anything like that? I have I have actually talked to a lot of people who've had good luck with that.
Sure. We've had see that, I think, yeah. That, I think we might be onto something there. Yeah. However, the, so oh, you were saying that you used to just dive full on into [00:44:00] the scent control stuff. Yeah. And all the stunt killer products. I have to admit, I was big. Oh, big dear urine consumer . I was too.
I was too, that's half the reason I don't believe in any of this stuff because I've bought, yeah, dude, I've bought, I bought a wine bottle at the Alabama Deer Classic back in 2009. I bought a wine bottle full of deer pea. Okay. Oh. And came with a little suction thing so that you could suck all the air out of it so it wouldn't oxidize while in the bottle.
Like it's a legit wine bottle, literally with an air remover, . And I paid like a hundred something bucks for this bottle of deer pee. So I, dude, I've gone to the dark side of that whole thing. Good God. Yeah. That sounds like it could be a good prank. Dude, it was bad. Put that out at the dinner party.
Yeah, I bought that stuff, man. I, yeah. So anyway, so you're a you're a [00:45:00] urine connoisseur as well. . I was not anymore. Yeah. I'm right there with you. I think everyone's gone through that, whether it be the scent control or the the supplemental sense and stuff like that. Yeah. I think everybody goes through it, and especially early on when you're trying to figure it out and you're trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work and all that kind of stuff.
I think it, yeah, it really does. I don't know if it's the kind of thing where it's like you need to be like shown okay, yeah, this stuff doesn't work. Yeah. I just need to hunt better, . Yeah. But I would you think about it, the amount of money you're saving by not dumping it into that stuff every year you can put towards better gear fuel in the truck to, maybe go a little bit further, make an extra day trip out to go and, hunt, whatever it may be.
Yeah. Find better ground, all that good stuff. Yeah, absolutely. . Yeah, absolutely. Invest in some milkweed and there [00:46:00] you go. Figure it out. . Yeah. And I think that's spot on. I think the synthetics could possibly be onto something if they could figure it out. , deer communicate with their noses, right?
Yep. And their glands. And so if we can ever figure it out with something synthetic that smells enough like it, I think it's possible that it could work. Sure. I think the tarsal glands are a good thing. Yeah. Are good to try. Code blue actually just came out with an individual tarsal gland from an individual buck that you can buy in a package.
Really? Yes. There might be some value there. I might have just wasted a bunch of your money. You might be going to Boston , and I saw 'em at ATA eight and I was intrigued a bit. I'm like, okay, this could be something worth looking at. But man, how many bucks did they murder to get this product? right on the market.
That's the thing. It's did they get 'em from farms? Did they get 'em from harvested deer? Like how do you go about,
Commercializing that, I have [00:47:00] no idea. I have no idea. Those things have gotta be expensive. I don't know what they retail for, but I mean it's the same kind of thing with the bottles of urine and stuff though. They have to, either it's someone's job to, when they kill a deer, drain the bladder into, something.
Or some poor bastard is following in this peeing deer around with, dude a cup and . Have you seen hop for the best? Have you seen the facilities where they gather deer urine in? No. Okay. So the deer are basically standing on a grate. Okay, sure. Kinda like a vet clinic sort of thing. Yep. Underneath there is a sloped floor that funnels down to a trough that funnels down to the back of the room so that when the deer p, their P is funneled down through and out of the room.
So they're kept in. Sounds like Ken Stadium. What's that? Sounds like Kennick Stadium. Yeah. Is it's, [00:48:00] I don't know how I feel about it. They gotta, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. But which then again, you've got, and again, I don't know the science of it, but it seems like if you're doing that in a facility where you're outside of a natural wilderness environment, it seems like there's gonna be some sort of ascent contam.
going on there one way or another, whether it be, I don't know if the bottle smells like anything, and obviously, it's gonna be a very minute source of contamination, whether it be, the plastic or the troughs or the facility or, but what's the diet of those deer that are in the Yeah.
Cause granted, this is some caveman biology here, but as a human, we eat something a little off and our, you can quite often smell a difference in your pee. Yep. So it's it does the same thing happen to deer if they're getting fed pellets or, whatever it may be that they're getting fed in those facilities around the farms?
Yeah. You've seen 'em, like the deer farms and stuff. That's [00:49:00] where they get it. Yeah. You throw a quarter in, you get what looks like, rabbit food, essentially. Just those little pellets of stuff. And . I don't know. I don't know beats that outta me, but Yeah. And not only all the potential contaminants and who knows what if, whether they're pea smells like wild deer pea.
Yeah. But just the fact that it, man, it comes out of them. It hits this floor and dribbles down a long siphon into some kind of container that, the best way to oxidize a liquid. Like when you've got a bottle of wine and you want it to, what they say, open up. You put it in a decanter, you put it in a a larger thing that gives it more surface area, and you might put it in there and swirl it around.
, that's to let more air get to the wine. Sure. If you take a glass of water and you pour it on the floor, it levels out pretty quickly real thin, right? That's a lot of surface area. Yeah. If you're doing that with p, that oxidation process is happening real quick.[00:50:00] It's not just sitting in a bottle.
It is spread out and all of that's exposed to air is getting oxidized. It's being contaminated, essentially. It's breaking down. And so who knows by the time it makes it to the bottle, how much does it really smell? Like deer pee. Yeah, exactly. Unless they, I don't know. Maybe they've got, maybe they've got, I'm not gonna try and engineer a collection of deer, urine,
I need to have somebody on because I, I've got all these thoughts on it, but I need to have somebody on who knows what they're talking about, maybe one day and just see, walk me through, the process of collecting this urine. How do I know? It's it's legit. They that's the thing.
They probably, as soon as they sign on to work there, they probably sign some sort of an nda. That's if you tell anyone that this is a racket, I swear to God, . You will never see the light of day. Oh, there go all those partnerships there, hunt again, , there, go all those partnerships I could have had , [00:51:00] no, I never could have told people to go buy Deer p Man.
I bought enough of it myself to, to yeah. Take the Taral stuff I'm interested in. I'm intrigued by that. Yeah. One of those from a tree or drop it them, next to a scrape, something like that. Yep. I can see some what's the word I'm looking for here? I could see something working there with that.
Yeah. Pretty much any gland sense, like I can just see gland sense in general having more value than urine. If that makes sense. Yeah, cuz it's an oil coming out of those rather than an oxidizable, I guess maybe you'd get stale oil essentially, or like a stale gland or whatever it may be.
But at the same time, I think you cross that bridge when you get to it. . Yeah. Yeah. All right. We gotta figure that part out. We'll, Pierce. Look man, we've been going for 56 minutes and we have not gotten to two of the topics that I was most excited to get to . So will you commit to come on again before I bring these things up?
Yeah. All right. Yeah, we'll do another one at point. Lock that in. All right. [00:52:00] So I wanna talk about two things. Number one, my tag, my hunt. All right. Sure. And that's the one that was really gonna tick some people off as we Yeah. As we talk through it. And not because it's a bad thing. I'm all for it, man.
You're tag your hunt. Do it. , I just want us to think about it a little bit. Sure. Are there repercussions we didn't intend? And then best and worst or most interesting deer camp traditions, , you found out there might be a lot to do with deer genitalia, but that's all for a future.
we're absolutely we're tantalizing the crowd. Now they can't wait with that cliff hanger. . . Yeah. . Come back next time to talk about dear Genitalia. All right. Absolutely. All right, Pierce man, thanks for coming on the show again today. Hey, are you fishing? Yeah, I'm fishing. Yeah, , of course. I'm fishing.
Of course. What's I fixed my waiters today. You what? I just fixed my waiters today. Oh, you spring a leak. Oh yeah. Many leaks. , is it about time for new ones? [00:53:00] Yeah, these will get me through another year. I'm gonna see how this patch job did and I tried some. It's like aqua seal uv, which is supposedly pretty good.
Okay. So I'm, I oughta be able to make it through this spring. Yeah. At the very least. Maybe come fall I'll see about grabbing another pair. But our waiter season's so short here in Wisconsin anyways, that really, it's like winter, spring, and then hopefully by. may. It's warmer enough that we can wet weight and all that, but Yeah.
Yeah. In a lot of these streams too, you really don't have to do too much waiting. Not a ton. No. They're not huge. No. If anything, usually muck boots will be just fine for folks who don't have waiters. But yeah, dude, I I bought a pair of waiters on Amazon for 30 bucks years ago. Just recently?
No, years ago. Oh, sure. And I cannot destroy these things. I cannot put a hole in them to save my life. They're pvc and they will not spring a leak. Now they're horribly uncomfortable and extremely hot and miserable, but they [00:54:00] will not leak, so I can't justify buying new ones. Is that those hip waiters that you brought?
No, those were lacrosse. Okay. Sure. Those were lacrosse hip waiters. They're a little bit nicer. Yeah. This is like a you know when you go and you read in the Amazon description and like the person that wrote it obviously does not speak English. Sure. That this is the kind of quality I was shooting for sure.
It was like these, this waiter make you very comfy in water kind of thing. Like it was just not good. Sure. But anyway, little did you know, , little did I know. These things will never die and I'll never be able to justify by myself a pair. Man, if people wanna get in touch with you to talk fishing, where where should they go?
Because you're in the middle of booking stuff up. We were getting on the phone earlier and you were booking clients and all that good stuff. Yep. This calendar's starting to fill up for some driftless fly fishing trips over in Wisconsin. But yeah, folks wanna get in touch and hit the water or talk fishing and my company is good chance fly fishing.
You can reach us at Good chance fly fishing.com. Good chance fly fishing on [00:55:00] Instagram. Good chance fly fishing gmail.com. We'd love to get you out. Sweet. It's pretty armed Fun. Happy season coming out. I've been out with Pierce and it's a good time. He got me on the fish and looking forward to hopefully doing some more fishing here in April when I come up to Turkey Hunt.
Oh yeah. We'll get a full day in and maybe a couple even. Sweet dude. We'll get after it. We get out there and smash a Turkey on the first morning and then first morning. First hour. Yeah. The call's been made. I love it. Let's do it, . All right, buddy. Thanks for coming on the show. You bet, man. Thanks for having me.
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