Hot Button Topics Pt. 2: Banned Trail Cams & Bowhunting Biceps

Show Notes

Back by popular demand, Josh and Pierce chat for part 2 of the Hot Topics series. This week, they discuss the recent ban of trail cameras on public land in Kansas and the hunting fitness movement. 

The Kansas trail camera movement my be the beginning of a slippery slope for midwestern deer hunters. What's most interesting about this decision might be less about WHAT was done in Kansas and more about WHY the decision was made. Is this a good move? Let us know what you think!

Another hot topic is that of fitness & hunting. Many "influencers" today give off the vibe that if you're not a bodybuilding marathon runner, then you can't be a good bowhunter. Have they gone to far? Does fitness REALLY matter for hunting whitetails?

Tune in to hear Josh and Pierce give their opinion. Then let them know on Instagram where they got it right, where they missed the mark, and what you want to hear them discuss next. 

Connect with Josh and The Wisconsin Sportsman Podcast on Instagram.

Connect with the How to Hunt Deer Podcast on Instagram.

Show Transcript

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Welcome to the Hot Hotta Hunt Deer podcast, which is brought to you by Tact Cam. This podcast aims to educate those who are interested in becoming deer hunters, brushing up on essential skills, or maybe just adding a few new tactics to the toolkit. We cover a variety of topics that will help you be more confident and successful in the field.

Thank you so much for tuning in this week along with me today. Once again, [00:01:00] I've got Mr. Pierce, Ellis Pierce. What's going on buddy? Not much man. Finally starting to feel like spring here. So I've just got turkeys on the brain. Is it really starting to feel like spring or are you lying? I think it's started to feel like spring

We've had seven or eight fall springs here this year. Yeah, so I'm I'm hoping this one's the real deal. Yeah, we've got rain in the forecast for the rest of the week, so at least it's not snow . There you go. No more shoveling for a minute. At least. Hopefully. Yeah. Hopefully. Never know. . It was it was, so I work out with a group of guys on Tuesday mornings at five 30 in the morning and we just do body weight type workout.

So everything we do is outside. This morning it was 31 degrees here in Georgia. Yeah. Which I'm like, dude, this is. The second day of spring, it should not be 31 degrees . We don't get this kind of weather for deer season. We don't get it. Like we just don't get this nice [00:02:00] winter, so now that I'm getting trail cam picks of turkeys and, making plans for my Turkey season, now all of a sudden winter decides to show up and I'm like, what is this?

Why in the world is this beginning to happen? But anyway. Dude, I wanted to have you back on. We did an episode a couple of weeks ago I think I called it Hot Topics part one or something like that, because we knew as soon as we got done that we needed to do another one cuz there was a lot of ground left that we just didn't cover.

Then afterwards I got a really good response from it. I had people reaching out, given their take on some different things. I had I looked at the download numbers, like it obviously got downloaded a bunch. Yeah, like peak deer season download numbers. . So obviously this is something folks want to hear a little bit more of, or at least.

Have something to engage in during the off season. Maybe it's time to take a little bit of a break from the in and out strategy, which I'm fi if I'm honest with you, man man talking hardcore deer hunting strategy week in, week out is amazing. But sometimes I like to think about [00:03:00] other things.

So we're we're doing some different things this spring. We're sharing success stories. We're, doing stuff like this with hot topics. And today we've got a couple more that we're gonna g we're going to cover. Before we do that though Pierce, I gotta tell you, man, do you have your tact cam yet?

I do not yet. Now. They do. Not yet. Okay. All right. Look, no, right now they've got a sale going on. It's called like the Turkey Prep dealer. I don't know, whatever the slogan is. Their marketing team came up with something cool to call it. . But I do know that you can get the 6.0 camera, a barrel mount for your gun and a SD card that you know is gonna work in that camera.

All for 299 bucks, which is $75 off. So if you haven't already gotten one, you can head over tot and pick that sucker up today. So you're telling me that I'm losing money by not jumping on this deal? I'm telling you that if you don't buy one right now in three weeks or two weeks or something like that, you're going to spend $75 more.

Yes. That's what I'm saying to you. That's what I'm saying to you. So when you [00:04:00] finally decide okay, bow season's almost here now I want to buy it. You're gonna spend 75 bucks more for something that you could have saved money on now and have it for Turkey season instead of Absolutely.

Instead of waiting. So I would recommend, and if you needed a better excuse to buy more gear. Oh, that's a good one. Literally saving money. Really? You're earning money by jumping on this deal. You're earn Yeah. For sound. And the question becomes, how could you not? That's really what it becomes Exactly.

Is how could you not do this? Exactly. Man, I'm so glad that the listeners aren't gonna take us seriously. When I do these commercials, here at the beginning, let me ask you this, did we did we piss anyone off? But that you mentioned you got a bunch of write-ins and stuff like that. Did we ruffle some feathers with that last one or no?

Le no ruffled feathers good. Like not a single feather ruffled, but I did have people, say, Hey, here's my opinion, or Hey, good thoughts on this. Here's where I differ. But people who responded, who had a differing opinion I did get some stuff back on specifically on the trail camera thing.

And it was [00:05:00] really done in such a super respectful way. So all you guys out there listening thank you so much for engaging in these ideas that I think are important to think and talk about and discuss. , but doing it in a respectful way At the end of the day, it's like, Hey, we're all hunters butt.

Here's where I differ from your opinion. And nobody really criticized me too bad about my thought of, I think that the the livestream cameras are going too far and I don't want other people to have one, but I want one for fun, , nobody called me out as being hypocritical or anything like that, so that was awesome.

It was great. But I think it's because, we presented it all pretty open handedly and Right. So I think that created an environment where people were able to really engage with the idea as opposed to, being triggered or whatever. But yeah, guys, as we go through this episode, if there are things that you wanna, reach out, talk about, give us your feedback, ask questions, whatever, feel free to reach out to me.

You can find me on Instagram at How to Hunt Deer, or at the Wisconsin Sportsman. You can find Pierce on Instagram as well. Pierce, where [00:06:00] are you at? I am at Good chance fly fishing on Instagram or underscore pierce hour. Sweet. So they can find you there. And if they want to go fishing this spring, specifically in the drift list of Wisconsin they should look you up. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. If you have never done the Driftless game, or you want to try fly fishing, or you want to just spend a great day out on the water chasing some fun trout in a very beautiful area, I would love to have you join me. Yeah, man. One of the things I love about the Driftless is if you're new to fly fishing, the streams are relatively small and early spring is a great time to get out there.

Casting is simple. You don't have to make long casts or anything like that. The fish are pretty forgiving for the most part. Like I don't find a lot of super finicky now, some of your harder hit places maybe. I won't go mentioning any, but some of the harder hit places, you may [00:07:00] find a little more finicky fish, but for the most part, you're not dealing with fish that are just like super hard to even, get up on 'em without spooking them too bad.

In the springtime, the biggest thing that we run into is if the water levels are low and the water is super, super clear. And again, like you said, on a body of water that gets a ton of pressure where they are very accustomed to anglers, splashing through the water, knocking over boulders, then occasionally falling through lung structure.

Not that we know anyone who's done that, but dude, I thought for sure I had just ripped my leg open. , I thought I was just gonna look down and see blood flowing , from underneath. But dude, another cool thing too, or another thing for people to think about if you're thinking about trying this fly fishing later on in the summer, is a lot more difficult for newbies, I think because of the increase in growth on the bank sides.

Yeah, a lot of places that I've fished, the later you get into the summer, the [00:08:00] more you're getting tangled up, the more you're catching leaves behind you, the more you're snagging grass, that kind of thing. So anyway, just the thought for those guys that might be on the fence of hey, do I want to do a spring trip?

We're doing one here soon. Yes sir. Looking forward to that. I'm now, yeah, absolutely. So my goal is to catch a brook trout and if we can get on a tiger trout, that'd be pretty cool too. You have had a lot of luck with those. You've caught three in a 12 month span. Less than 12 months. Less than 12 months.

And the first one was May of last year. So yeah. 10 months span and, yeah. That's nuts, man. Yeah, it I can't explain it. And the body of water, which of course shall remain nameless here gets a ton of pressure. And it is a spot that I had fished time, after time. And I, I don't know why that fish was there.

I know why it was there. I don't know why that fish decided to eat under those conditions in that cer, like [00:09:00] just that set of circumstances. It was a total freak thing that. I feel very lucky to have experienced, but . Yeah. Man that's sweet. That's awesome. So yeah, if you want to check out some some fly fishing in the Wisconsin Drift Li Drift list, go ahead and look up Pierce on Instagram.

Or you can go to his website. And also, don't be afraid to book a trip if you're interested in the summer because it Oh yeah, for sure. There's kinda a, there's a bit of duality to it in the spring. The casting is easier, however, the fish are spookier. Yep. And there's, there's less cover and all that.

And we're casting smaller flies, which require a little bit more delicacy in their presentation. Whereas in the summer, as long as you can get your cast off, which I do my best to position you and put you in a position that you're not gonna get tangled up, you're not gonna get snagged on stuff. We're throwing big foam bugs, beetle patterns, hopper patterns ant patterns, stuff like that, that don't require nearly as much.[00:10:00]

Finesse if you'll and we get some pretty explosive, aggressive eats typically, especially during our hopper season. So yeah, year round, it's super fun. Come up to Wisconsin, chase some trout. I think another thing to there are a lot of places that don't have like heavy structure and issues to worry about on the bank.

Like . Yeah. There are a lot of places with no gra, cattle pasture kind of flat, banks and that kind of thing. So not anything to worry about. So one more thing, Pierce, before we get going here. Turkey season's right around the corner. I'm not sure if you're aware of that.

It's pretty much the only thing on my mind right now. And white tails are too, but not to the extent that turkeys are. One of the things you should do also is head over to hunt worth They've got a sale going on right now, 20% off of everything you mentioned, needing some rain gear. Pierce.

Yep. Yep. And absolutely. I have never used rain gear. That's as good as the hunt worth rain gear that I used this past year. It kept [00:11:00] me dry, it kept me warm, it kept me comfortable. It was it was breathable enough to wear. My problem with a lot of rain gear is you take it off and you're just as wet on the inside as you would've been without wearing any rain.

Just because you sweat and it's just not breathable and it's miserable. This stuff was fantastic. I used it, man. I sat and got just obliterated by rain during the rut. Just smashed by rain, wind, everything else. And I stayed dry and I stayed comfortable. So if you're interested in something like that, they've got a sale going on right now, 20% off.

You can use the code T R K Y M 20. That's a lot to remember. Just go to their website. It's up at the top. So it's not like it's a secret. Or anything like that, but go to their website, 20% off of everything site wide. If you're looking for something for Turkey season, I recommend the Tarn. It's an excellent pattern.

The other patterns are good too, but man, I just had a lot of success with that Tarn this past fall. So go and check that out. Pierce man, that's [00:12:00] enough of commercializing. What we're here to do today, we've gotta talk hot topics and we've got a couple of things that we want to cover.

Three of them I think are timeless, right? Like we could cover them at any time of the year. We could discuss them whenever we want to. One of them, though, I think is really timely and maybe we want to go ahead and discuss it. Unfortunately we couldn't get to discussing it last week, already had an episode in the queue and like ready to go.

Kansas just banned trail cameras on public land, and that includes their walk-in hunting areas. . So that's a big deal. We've seen it happening in a lot of western states where either. Cellular trail cameras or trail cameras in general have been banned. We know why, because, these spots are being just abused by folks.

You go out to water, I've heard stories of water holes with 50 to a hundred cameras around them because everybody and their brother knows that's the spot to be, to get pictures. So I get that. I get why they're [00:13:00] doing it. They're trying not to pressure that specific area. Kansas, however, is the first what I would consider Midwestern big bucks state to pass a ban on trail cameras.

The concern over the last couple of years out west has been, is this a slippery slope? Is this setting a precedent or precedent for other states to follow suit, to begin to ban trail cameras we see with Kansas? Probably right? Like it's out there and it's happening. Who's gonna be next? I don't know.

I feel like in Wisconsin it's probably going to, people are gonna give it a hard pass. . Yeah. I'm not real sure. I don't ordinary for that. Yeah. I don't think that people, yeah, I just don't think that would fly in Wisconsin. I don't know that it would fly in Iowa. But they, a seven member council passed it unanimously and they all said, yeah, let's do it now.

The reasons that they did it were pretty interesting. The biggest reasons seemed to [00:14:00] be that people were concerned about their privacy. So you as a public land Hunter Pierce may say to yourself or to other people, I don't want to be out on public land and have my picture taken, and somebody potentially posts that on Facebook.

I don't want to be out there in such a way that people can take my picture without me knowing. And I get that I understand. , I've all I shared, I think I've shared it with you last time got a picture of the dude peeing. Yep. Never did post that anywhere, but I could've, and it would've been hilarious.

And he thought it was pretty funny as well. Luckily he's a good sport about it cause he turned around and smiled at the camera. But, that's the reality. It's not, it has nothing to do or at least little to do with the deer and more to do with privacy. The next part that I thought was really interesting is that, last time we talked a lot about enforcement, as you start to have these new technologies that come out, you try to do different [00:15:00] things to enforce regulations that keep them within ethical boundaries. Their reasoning was we can't enforce easily. Without a total band top to bottom, we want to be able to enforce this the best that we can. Therefore, what we have to do is to just totally ban trail cameras.

Pierce, I'm curious your thoughts on number one, what do you think about this? Is banning these things okay. Is that all right? And number two, what do you think about their reasoning? So I want to hear your thoughts on what they did and then your thoughts on why they did it.

My thoughts on what they did. You and I were texting about this yesterday and my initial reaction was, whoa, that, that's big. That's a big step for them to take. And then the more I sat on it and thought about it, there's [00:16:00] a part of me that was in a big buck state like Kansas

I, there's a part of me that likes it. Okay then that's . I'm just gonna go out and say it. There's a part of me that likes it. There's a part of me that thinks it's cool that there's the it's essentially it's cutting technology outta the picture, right? Yep. It is requiring hunters to, if they want to get some intel, they have to get boots on the ground.

They have to take their time and go out in there, and they have to be careful to, not bump those deer. Which, in, in retrospect it may end up meaning, okay, you are, rather than, having the trail camp sit out there. Okay. There's an excuse to go out and sit in the woods for a little, a couple more days a year so that you've got some intel and stuff like that.

Yep. There's a part of me that likes it, man. There's a part of me that likes that kind of removal of technology and just the forcing folks to hunt the old fashioned way and [00:17:00] do their scouting the old fashioned way. That I really do that being said, in these modern times trail cams are beneficial.

They just are. They are. They really just are. I'm a little surprised that they did just a full on trail cam ban and they didn't try going was it Arizona or New Mexico that banned cell cams? I wanna say that was Arizona. That they're both, I think they're both. Oh, okay. Gotcha. I'm not a hundred percent positive.

In fact, that came up on an episode that we did with the, for the Wisconsin Sportsman, where we talked with Rudy Nunez from tcam, and, they've got three field cameras. And that was their big thing of, I was asking them like, how is that gonna change your marketing? And they were like we're gonna have to roll with the punches when, when it comes to this.

So I'm not exactly sure which one but yeah, one of them at least has said cell cameras, right? And so I'm a little surprised that Kansas didn't maybe take the baby step [00:18:00] of banning cell cams first and then go to trail cams. Cause that, trail cams, just the traditional model where you gotta go in and swap cards and all that stuff, that's still requiring you to go in, you're spreading human scent all over the property or whatever, wherever you're going.

You have to be cautious. You can't bump deer where you're going in and out to check yourself. So I do think maybe they to implement this, maybe they went a little too far, a little too fast. That being said, again, my kind of gut reaction to it is that I like it. Yeah. I don't think it's the worst thing.

I think if anything too, it'll be tough to see what actually happens with it. Is that gonna cause more hunters to get in the woods? Is that gonna cause fewer hunters to get in the woods? Are people gonna be less likely to hunt now that they're not getting, photos sent to their phone or, they're not going out there grabbing a [00:19:00] card and checking and seeing okay, I've got like these bucks in the area.

Or gonna be the opposite of was like crap, if I don't have that, I need to get in there and see what the heck's going on. I, show cams, I think they save people a lot of time as kind is the purpose of technology and technological advances. That being said, there's still that part of me that's very much okay with cutting those out of out of the picture there.

And obviously private land, you can still use them. I'm not sure what the public to private ratio is in Kansas. I haven't looked into that too much, but I'm okay with it. Yeah. With their walk-in hunting area program that really increased their public access to to hunting around there.

So they're doing okay. I don't know how I feel about it. I, I. , I'm intrigued by it, at the end of the day. , I've not, besides hunting, food plots or feeders in Alabama kind of thing. Yeah. I don't know that I've ever killed a deer over a trail camera, [00:20:00] if that makes sense.

Like I've never killed a deer in an area that I had my trail camera where I could like even see my trail camera from where I was sitting. Most of my trail camera strategy revolves around taking inventory, finding out what bucks are in the area, and so a lot of times it's why I'm really not even too upset about nighttime photos because I'm not gonna hunt there anyway.

I just wanna know what's around. Yep. One part of me that wants to push back, I'm okay with this. I'm not upset about it. I heard, I've heard nothing but tons of folks this year. , I saw more cell cams than ever in my spot in X State, whether that be Wisconsin or Illinois, or Georgia or Tennessee or Alabama.

Everyone that I've been talking to Pennsylvania, Ryan Glitz last week episode went live last Thursday, seeing more cell cameras now than ever. And so it's becoming a problem, just the amount of stuff that we've got out in the woods, right? Yeah. At the end of the day though, [00:21:00] I used trail cameras to make decisions as to what I can reasonably expect for an area.

So for instance, last year had that 90 plus inch buck come by, middle of the day, several days into my rut hunt, right? And I made the decision to pass the deer, and I made that decision. I don't wanna say that I would've definitely shot him had I not had pictures of larger deer. But there's a really good chance I would've, on public ground.

, I had three much larger deer in the area, and I knew they were there because of trail camera photos. And so that went into my decision. So I wonder if, removing trail cameras will be detrimental to overall age structure because folks no longer are aware what might be out there, what might be wandering around.

So when 115 inch three year old walks by, or 115 inch two year old walks by and you say to yourself he gets my heart racing [00:22:00] right. So I'm just gonna go ahead and take him. Yeah. And if that's what you wanna do, that's fine. I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm just saying that I know that it plays into my decision making.

I did a quick poll on Instagram where I asked, Hey, how often does. Trail camera pictures influence your shoot or past decisions. And I think the final result was, like a third of people said, it does not influence their, or no. 50% of people said it doesn't influence their shoot or past decisions like a trail camera photo Yep.

Of other deer. And that's fine. I've also found that a third of people who a third of people said that yearly they killed deer, that they have on trail camera, on public land. Okay. That's interesting to me. So the, they're obviously very helpful hunting tools on public land. Yeah. And they are informing the way that people hunt.

So I'm curious about the impact that, that will have. I'm curious about, because let's face it, a four or five year old buck plays a different role in the herd [00:23:00] than a two-year-old buck. Yep. Does they don't, functionally they're just not the same. And so will this impact the age structure in Kansas?

I don't know. It's a one buck state, so probably not too much. But I think that it could, I think there's opportunity for it to, what do you think about their reasoning for reasons of at least their published reason, right? It may be that there are other reasons as well, but their primary reason was personal privacy.

What do you think about that? Personal privacy's been something that's been, that's like a hot topic for the last, how many years really? Ever since really? I remember roughly since college, roughly since 1776 when yeah,

It's been going back. You're right. Yeah. That, that's the thing. I think, privacy's a super hot topic. Yeah. It really is. I completely understand it. I remember. I actually took like an ethics course in college about [00:24:00] privacy specifically. And, privacy law and all that kind of stuff.

And it was like when the city of Chicago and New York there were all the security cameras that were just like the city cameras that were on street corners and light posts, Andre fronts and all that stuff. True. And whether or not exactly. Is that an invasion of privacy or is it a security measure?

I don't know. Cause you know, I think you gotta, eventually, you just gotta look at the staff of okay, how much crime, does it stop? Or how many people do we catch using that stuff? Or how much good comes from, what's the payout for having all of this technology and all of this this stuff.

That being said, we've. Sat there and been hanging out with some friends or been talking about, some gear or some song or some something, and then the next day or later that night, you're scrolling through social media and all of a sudden, boom, there's an ad for it. Oh yeah. I was like, okay, I didn't look that up.

Nobody googled that around me. I was just talking about it. Yeah. Okay, [00:25:00] crap like, is , so then that kind of, feeds in what, how much privacy do we really have, are we really losing that much more? I get it too. You're going out on public land and, ideally a thought where there's no we all we go outside to disconnect.

We go outside to get away from all that crap, all the stuff involving the surveillance cameras and all that. Yeah. To get away from people, to get, just connect with nature and connect with the earth. And I think, it is tainting that or tarnishing that if we're going out there and all of a sudden, oh crap, here's eight cell cams that I just walked in front of that's annoying.

Who all just saw that? So I can see that argument too. That being said, I think it's

given the amount of other things I, at this point, I don't mean to sound like I've got any sort of a tin foil hat on here, but I think privacy is a bit more of an illusion than most people think at this point. [00:26:00] Yeah. And that is as far into that as I'm gonna go. However I see the Yeah I can understand the argument.

Yeah, I do. Cause you know it does, it's not gonna ruin your day. You and I have both gone out there and seen cell cameras and been like, ah, crap. Okay, there's someone else here. Or there's you, someone else has been here. And I'm not sure if that's just that

The I dunno what the verbiage is for it, the human kind of drive to find something new and find your own little, secluded oh yeah, this is my spot, this is cool. No one's been here, no one's touched this yet. I'm just out in nature. I found this cool spot.

So essentially just the sense of adventure more or less. Yeah, I don't know. I get it. Yeah. I definitely get it. I think it's a, you can make that argument as stronger as we, as you want to. These days, I think, Hey guys, just want to take a quick minute to let you know that the How to Hunt Deer Podcast is brought to you by Tcam [00:27:00] makers of the best point of view cameras on the market.

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To learn more and check out their full line of products, head over to their website, tact Share your hunt with Tcam. Do you find yourself becoming more of a conspiracy theorist as you get older? [00:28:00] no. You're not wearing tenfold hat. The only conspiracy I have is how can I convince more turkeys to come in a little bit closer?

Dude I've never done And more deer. I don't have time for it, man. There's just not time for it. Yeah. Cause you can go down a rabbit hole. Oh bad these days. . Yeah. So another question that popped into my mind as you were talking. Do you ever find a trail camera on public?

and obviously we both, we scout for human sign quite a bit as well. , right? Because these places that we're hunting, oftentimes in Wisconsin, they're small tracks and by a small tract, couple hundred acres maybe. Yeah. Which isn't huge when you got five or six guys on it, do you ever try to figure out like how savvy of a hunter they are by either the type of trail camera that they have or the Oh yeah. The way the trail camera is set up. Yep. . Yep. I do this. I always, so judgment trail cam. Yeah. Yeah. [00:29:00] It's either, and I, that's funny man. I feel like everyone totally is I, whether you're fishing, hunting, whatever, every single field, like every.

Pursuit or hobby or interest or whatever. There's always someone like, what are you doing that you think you're so great? Or what? Oh, that's what your setup is okay, sure. You really, you chose that tree, huh? Interesting. Yeah. Not what I would've done, what works for you.

Cool. Yeah, sure. That's great. The one that always cracks me up is when I find a tree that's got teeth marks in it from a climber stand or somebody clearly using climbing sticks or something like that, right? I don't know, go up the bottom of it, kinda look around. Really that tree?

That's, I'm pretty exposed man, but what do I know? ? Yeah. Yeah. You're percent with you. Yeah. You're off the deer sign by about 300 yards. But cool, man. If this is where you wanna hunt, that's fine. I'm sure a deer passes through here once in a while. Yeah, you're, you go for it, man. Yeah, dude, I when I'm out there on public ground, if I find.

You find those mid-range trail [00:30:00] cameras by like wildlife innovations, wild game innovations or whatever it is. Which there's a t-shirt out there that says Wild game violations instead of Wildlife Innovations because the Yeah. The owner, whatever, got busted for some different things.

And so that's hilarious. First of all, what a, what an awesome play on words. That's at busted or something like that. Justin Czar's t-shirt company, . Anyway, when I see those, I'm just kinda eh, they don't bother me too much. When I see a cell camera, I'm like, okay, the dude's pretty serious.

This is he's spending money to keep this out here. When I find those $30 task goes from Walmart , my immediate assumption is this guy has a hundred of these things out here. Because that's how I use them. I'm like, I buy the, occasionally we'll have those $30, if it's in a spot that I don't want to get or that I'm fine if it gets stolen or expect to get stolen.

I'm not putting a reveal there. I'm putting the 29 99 tasco from Walmart and I've got a literal crate of those things,[00:31:00] and so when I see one of those, I just assume the guy's got a hundred of them and that I'm like, all right, I'm avoiding this area altogether. Fine.

I'm out. Like he get, he gets it. This thing is basically posted with the game. Recognizes game. Yeah, that's right. That's right. . So all in all, Kansas has made this move. If I just, you gotta say good move or bad move for Kansas.

Oh man. , I didn't expect me to put, I was hoping you'd let me walk the line and uhhuh all that. I'm gonna say

I may eat my words here. I'm gonna say good move. Okay. All right. Are you more or less interested in hunting Kansas now?

More. More. Okay. I would, so I will say as a non-resident, it wouldn't have mattered to me hardly. Anyway. I [00:32:00] probably that. That's exactly where I'm at too. If I'm out there for a week, I'm not going to deal with cameras. I may, there may be a time when I want to put up one or two on a, if I find some nice scrapes to try to get quick inventory while I'm over here hunting this other place.

But really, they're not gonna play into my bag of tricks too much. Yeah. If I'm a resident, I'm probably gonna think it's a bad move. Yeah. As an out stater, I think it's a good move. I think it's a good move. And I'm happy to see Kansas as the test. Totally. And not Wisconsin because you better believe after making this move, other Midwestern states are watching what Kansas is doing.

Oh yeah. Yeah. And they're gonna be watching what comes out of Kansas. And I'll be interested to see if the yearling buck harvest begins to trend up, or at least the right, the two and three year old. But because I think in Kansas, that's one of those places you can reasonably hold out for a four year old deer on public ground.

Yep. [00:33:00] Very reasonably. I'd be interested to see if their harvest data shows that harvest harvesting or the harvest makeup starts to drift downward as opposed to Yeah. Your old rage class year. But we won't know that for a couple years. And I mean it. Do the opposite thing could be okay. I can't have trail cameras in here.

I can't get intel there. I'm not gonna hunt there. It could just deter hunters from going into that area. I'm gonna go ask my, my buddy from work, if I can hunt out at his place and I'll put trail cams out there so I know exactly what I'm hunting. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it, it could go either way.

Yeah, it really could. I think for just general public land woodsmanship and stuff like that, it's good cause it's gonna force people to really get better at reading sign and look. Okay. What really is the sign of a mature buck in this area? Like you, really analyzing hoof prints, really analyzing scrapes and bedding and different travel corridors and stuff like that.

I, I, [00:34:00] it's gonna be cool to see. Yeah. I didn't even think you had to be a good woodsman in Kansas. I thought there's just big , there's one 50 s running around everywhere. And that. That's what I thought. Anyway. All right let's move on. Pierce says on the state website, right? What's that?

That's what they say on the state website, isn't it? Yeah. I think the, when you're a non-resident, I think it has a guarantee on there that they're, that you're gonna get a shot at a one 40 or you're my back for the license . Oh, gosh. If you're from Kansas and you're listening to this, I'm so sorry.

I apologize right now. All right, Pierce, one more topic. I don't think we're gonna, we've got three more here on the docket, and I don't think we could, I think this topic alone, we could have made a whole episode without, but agree. I think let's yeah, we'll move on here, folks listening.

Please write in. Yeah, we would love to hear what you have to say. Yeah. Let us know your thoughts on this, what we got wrong. Yeah. And then maybe let us know too. How you feel if your [00:35:00] state did it. I can tell you right now, if I'm as a hunter in Georgia, and as someone who hunts Wisconsin a lot, I would be very sad.

Oh yeah. like this, I would not be okay with this. But as a non-resident, I'm okay with it. Let me know your thoughts Right in, let us know. Like Pierce said, where we got it right, where we got it wrong. Pierce. The next thing of a little bit of a hot topic that I want to talk to you about is the idea, and I think you, you put it to me like this in a text message, something along the lines of, to be a bow hunter, you have to be a body building marathon runner, basically.

And if you're not, then what are you even doing with with your life? , explain to me a little bit about what you think or what your thought process there is. Because as soon as you sent that to me, I knew exactly what you were talking about. And I think as soon as I say that right, everyone knows what, and probably who we're talking about, you did send me a [00:36:00] hashtag and I didn't use that because that's calling out a specific person,

And I didn't want to I didn't want to, put him on the, call him to the table. We might. Absolutely. We might One day. That could be cool. Let's get him on. Yeah, we'll get him on. We'll grill him about it and tell him he is a chump. No, I'm kidding. We won't do that.

So yeah, talk to me about that and you're, your thought process on it. Cause you, you're a fit dude. I've called you several times and you're like, I'm on my way to or from the gym. . So it's not like you think physical fitness is not important because you do no. Absolutely not.

Yeah, I feel and I think most people. Who have social media can agree that in recent years there's been a trend towards this this sort of mentality that bow hunters ought to be, if you're a bow hunter, you oughta be in outstanding shape. You oughta be, just shredded and running or doing [00:37:00] CrossFit or just working your tail off in the gym.

I'll just go out and say it. I think everyone on here has probably seen at least a video, if not multiple videos of campaigns doing his run lift, shoot and more power. God bless him. Cause that dude works his butt off and kills some sweet bowls. The dude's, the bow hunter, the dude's bow has a 92 pound draw weight.

I think he got a new one. It's 95 or a hundred now. That's re good Lord. It is absolutely psycho . It is nuts. Oh my goodness. And which if, he pulls it back. No problem. So more power to him. Yeah. The dude's an animal, absolute animal. I feel like lately a lot of folks have begun to try and emulate that.

And I think for a good reason. I do not think that it is turning into a an egotistical if you don't have a six pack and can't run 10 [00:38:00] miles, you shouldn't be a bow hunter. I do not think it's that. Cause I, I remember early on when Cam was coming on the scene, . His whole thing was that he, out of respect for the animal, he wanted to be in as great of shape as he could so that he could be as prepared as possible and have his heart rate low enough and be as non shaky and have, fired as many practice shots as possible, that he is in the best condition possible to make an ethical shot on an animal and kill it quickly and humanely.

I get that. Yes. That is fantastic. Yep. However, since then, I think it's been a little bit monetized and I think it's turned into this this mentality sort of thing. It's just if you're a bow hunter, you gotta be a fricking beast, otherwise, what are you doing?

What are you trying? And I think there's, there's obviously something to do with that. I do not think bow hunting and physical fitness are just health and wellness in general. Are, mutually excu or [00:39:00] exclusive or you have to be in great shape to be a bow hunter or all that. Cause we've seen plenty of guys on this trend now who are in awesome shape and they suck at bow hunting.

Yeah. And they're just brutal. You know what I mean? They have no clue what they're doing. They're, they, sure. They do the running the lift and they shoot their bow, but you put 'em in the woods and it's okay, what do you ? Okay, this is foreign to us now. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And what I see with that is too much of you drop them in the outfitters blind and then they take a shot. You know what I mean? It's not it, it has nothing to do with true woodsmanship. But anyway, I, we'll come back around to my 2 cents. Keep going. Sure. And so I I think that the big trend has been as of late, as I mentioned, just like in order to be a bow hunter, you've gotta be a freaking beast now.

Ryan gk, who you had on last week, the dude's an ambulance dude, the freaking tank. Oh my God. . I hope I get to meet him person at some point because the dude is just massive. You crush your hand and, yeah. But, and I,[00:40:00] I think it's, it is awesome, that, folks are encouraging hunters to, I would much rather, let's just put it this way.

I would much rather have people focused on wellness and being in great shape and just good physical fitness as well as being a bow hunter than, smoking a pack a day and, pounding a bunch of beers and taking horrible care of themselves and then going out and all that. If that's your game, more power to you.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I, best of both worlds case, you're healthy and you're a good hunter. Obviously that's the best of both worlds. . I just think that lately there's been a little bit of a culture shift here where it's you better be getting after it if you're a bow hunter.

And I think for western hunters, absolutely. That's a super physically demanding hunt that you're doing where you're, hiking in the mountain, the foothills, all that you're packing out, six, 700 pound elk on your back, and quartering them all that kind of stuff. It's a physically demanding deal.

And I do think I was talking to [00:41:00] my buddy Gus about this yesterday. He brought up the point that in the Midwest, that's just not the case. Yeah. We're not it is a get in the tree and sit still don't move. That kinda thing. You know what I mean? Sure. We might have a bit of a hike going in and out of there, but other than that, it's can you sit it out?

Can you basically just. I can only use myself there. Sorry, can you hang out of a tree and or, sit in a stand for a full day and just tough out the cold and not really move that much. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's a, just a differently it's a total different set of demands than, the western hunters who you know, a lot of folks see, on social media and on YouTube and all that stuff.

We've all gone down the YouTube rabbit holes of watching, whether it be Cam Hayes or I'm sure folks have, seen Joe Rogan or whoever it is, bigger names, more celebrity type people doing these bow hunting going on these hunts. And again, more power to 'em.

It's you're getting out in the woods. You're [00:42:00] enjoying the sport. You are, you are attempting this pursuit. and all the best to you. You know what I mean? Yeah. That being said, I think it, it is very important to say that you do not have to be a freak of a physical specimen to be a bow hunter

Yeah. And I agree. You said something a second ago where about how monetized it has all become, and that's so true. , just look at the number of, new companies, new brands that are out there now that are marketing either their supplements or their fitness line specifically to hunters.

, like that should tell you right there, there are other motives at play. It's not just, we really want to help you get in shape and so we're gonna let you buy our creatine at $85 for this little bitty 12 ounce. or whatever, yeah. There's a lot more at play there.

Now. I will say, I think [00:43:00] physical fitness is important when it comes to hunting. I've not, oh, absolutely. I've not prioritized it in the way that I should. You're hunting private land that you can easily traverse on a golf cart or a four-wheeler or your vehicle. , it is what it is. Whatever you're hunting, public land where your hikes are long if you're saddle hunting or if you're doing any kind of real mobile hunting, it can be really important.

I got in a little bit of a hairy situation last, no, two Decembers ago, so it would've been December of 21. I went out for the holiday hunt and my plan was to take a dough. I got in a tree that was too big. And basically got to where I could not, I was one sticking and it was snowing outside.

It's cold. I'm super bundled up. And between the way that I'd positioned the stick, the lean of [00:44:00] the tree, and all the bulky clothing that I'd had on, and just what it took out of me to walk there, through snow. And, I wore out, I had a heck of a time riding myself there.

. And I'm like, am I gonna have to just cut myself down and just hope for the best? When I get to the bottom, like I don't know. I don't know what I'm gonna do. So I think there are a lot of things that are really important. And, another thing, not just for the safety aspect, but I never want to be in a situation where I make hunting decisions based off of my physical fitness level.

That to me, oh yeah, sucks really bad. That's what's getting me out in the. Out, working out right now, as we head into Turkey season, I've got one month less than a month from today. You and I are gonna be covering ground for turkeys on public land in Wisconsin, and I don't want to make decisions based on whether or not I'm physically fit enough to make it happen or whether or not I'm too tired, to cross this creek [00:45:00] or walk straight up this, 44, 45 degree, hillside or whatever it is. , I want to be able to do it without having to think twice about my ability physically to make that happen. But I think beyond that, and especially when you get into you just need to be ripped and able to run marathons Yeah.

And all that. That's just, it's too far. It's not necess. Now, if you wanna do fitness, you wanna be fit, go do it, man, whatever. Yeah. Just maybe don't act like the rest of us have to be marathon runner or bodybuilder to be able to make it happen. Absolutely. I also think Tony Peterson, I've talked with him a couple of times, and that's a big thing for him.

It's physical fitness. Now you look at Tony. , he's not jacked. He's not huge. He's kind he's a runner. Like he, he really enjoys running. Yeah. And the guy is fit for his mental state primarily. Like for him. Yeah. That is how he stays mentally in shape as [00:46:00] well as how he stays physically in shape.

And I admire that man. I think that's really good. I think that there's value in the deer woods or the Turkey woods or whatever it is to be mentally in shape through being physically in shape. There's a guy yeah. I forget the name of the book. I think it's called The Common Rule. Yeah, the Common Rule.

Eley is his last name or something like that. But one of the things, it's all about spiritual practices. So if you're not, into that kind of stuff, whatever. But one of the things that I took away from the book was he said, sometimes the only way to get a hold of your soul is to get a hold of your body.

And it was just about the value of posture and that kind of thing when it comes to spiritual practices or whatever. And I think that expands out from there to your mental state. Sometimes the only way to conquer certain issues is to. is through the use of physical fitness.

I think that's [00:47:00] a huge way of managing right. Whether it be depression or anxiety. Not to say that, if you just go work out, all your anxiety and depression's gone. It's not what I'm saying. My wife's a therapist, so I dare not say anything like that, . Oh. But what I will say is that it can help you to manage.

And so I have to think that it can help you to manage when it comes to the moment of truth, when it comes to, doing hard things out in the woods when it comes to those times when you really need good clarity to make a good decision. Whether that be a decision about whether to take the shot, when to take the shot, how to take the shot, or a decision about your safety.

I was listening to a story yesterday on the Bow Hunter or I'm sorry, working class Bow Hunter podcast, and they had somebody on from Chase Nation and the dude almost died. in the woods, he became hypothermic, fell in a creek. He was, had vertigo from a gun blast and all this stuff. And, I think [00:48:00] moments crap.

Yeah, it was, dude, you should go listen to it. It's a really good episode, but it'll make you think twice about people knowing where you're at. But it also made me think twice about my physical fitness and my ability to to get myself out of the woods, should I find myself in a sketchy situation.

Yeah. Anyway Pierce, what's your workout routine? Dude we've got just a couple minutes here like two or three minutes to keep recording. I don't wanna jump into these other topics. The other topics we're gonna, we're gonna cover in a future episode, because they are Oh yeah. Number one Deer Camp traditions.

And we're gonna talk about like the good, the bad and the ugly , including the one that I shared with you was normal for folks down in the south. And you were like, what the hell? Yeah. Are what? What? What do you do ? And I, I wanna be sure we get to that one. And the next is the concept of my tag, my hunt, and yeah, the good and maybe the not great that comes with that. And yeah. Don't get flustered about that yet until you hear me out on it. But in case [00:49:00] someone's listening and they're like, ah don't talk about that one. I just wanna talk about it. Open handedly, but what is your yeah, what's your, what does your fitness routine look like?

If it's not important to be a marathon runner who's also a bodybuilder for bow hunting, what level of physical fitness is important? As you were talking about being in the that sticky situation in your cell, I was like thinking like, yeah, you know what? Especially this first year of saddle hunting for me, like this past fall, like there was a lot of times that I was really just kinda like hanging on a branch while I was trying to get stuff situated and lined up.

And I was like, okay, if I like hang off of this and I like hug the trunk with this arm, I can probably scooch this over a little bit or adjust my tether in one way or another. As I was thinking that my like initial thought was just like, if you're gonna saddle hunt, like you should hopefully like, be close to at least getting one good pull up.

Yeah. Oh yeah. And yeah. You should be able to if it should hit the fan, you can grab a [00:50:00] branch and get yourself in a and I don't wanna say safe, but in a safer position than dangling off this branch. Yeah. You know what I mean? Get yourself to do some good, a more solid ground essentially.

Yeah. I would add one quick thing to that. . Yeah. If you're climbing at all, you need to work on the hip flexors. If you're leaving the ground, you need to work on your hip flexors, because I didn't really have vocabulary to put to that over the last couple years, but that's where it gets me, dude.

That's where I'm like, wiped. And I'm like, why am I so tight? Why am I wiped out from this? It's not my major muscle groups, it's my hip flexors. Because I don't work 'em. Yeah. There's, just hiking doesn't really do a lot for 'em, but boy, you start putting one leg up above the other, not one foot in front of the other, one leg above the other.

. You start trying to get up a tree, or you start walking, hiking for a long time through dense cover where you're having a high step and then you get to your tree and decide to try to climb . Yeah. You gonna be [00:51:00] wiped out. So anyway, just throw that one out there. Yeah, no, that's 100%. And I, as you were talking too about just The mental aspect of, being physically in shape and working out on a, semi consistent basis.

And just what that does for you mentally. The, maybe I don't, I'm not sure if it's the same, the variation of the saying, if you feel good, in theory you're gonna perform better, gonna think a little bit clearer, you're gonna be like you said I think one of the big words that gets, floated around in this conversation of, whether it be bow hunting or working out the two of 'em they both all kind of point to discipline.

, right? And so you've got the discipline of, you're not gonna punch that trigger. You're gonna hold on, the discipline to practice your shooting, the discipline to, continue working out for your own physical benefit and all that stuff. I, I think there, there is something, and that's one of, honestly, one of the coolest things about.

Bow hunting and, fitness as a whole, like each one of 'em is like great for discipline and, focus and [00:52:00] clarity. Cause when you're doing each one of those things, if you're not a hundred percent focused on 'em, you're not getting nearly as much out of it as you could be. You know what I mean?

If you're not fully locked in where you're shooting bows and or shooting arrows in the backyard and, maybe your mechanics start to get a little sloppy, a little loose or whatever okay, that's how you make a bad shot. That's how you send one over the block and, into the neighbor's yard or out into the cornfield or whatever.

And then, same with, working out. If you're not locked in and you're really focused on your form and what you're doing and, thinking on the muscle groups that you're trying to hit, or, even just, gritting your teeth and pushing through these, the, that last set or that last, mile or whatever it is you know that's how you get hurt.

It's either how you're either gonna come up short and you're gonna feel like crap and you're gonna kick yourself for not pushing yourself that little bit further. Or if you're not, locked in, especially you start dealing with, heavier weight and stuff like that. That's how you get injured, right?

Yeah. And then if you're injured, then you're not [00:53:00] hunting. So it's a dual-edged sword. As far as my routine, no, I've I played football from, fourth grade all the way through my freshman year of college. And so I started working out, hitting the gym and stuff when I was like, I wanna say 13 or 14.

And that was all for football. It was specifically for football. And I would go in there, we'd lift four days a week, Monday through Thursday, and then our coach was pretty cool on Friday was like a game day or whatever, where it was still, you're still active. It was a lot of running around and a lot of, Change direction type stuff.

But it was play, we called this, we had this game. It was basically just kinda like ultimate football, more or less, but we called it gra and we'd play that on Friday mornings and all that. Yes. And that was like our fun little reward for work and prior in the week. And, since then it's just been ingrained in me to just want to kinda work out.

I get super antsy and restless if I'm not physically active, if I'm, stuck behind a desk or in an office or, anything like that. [00:54:00] But, I keep it pretty loose. I don't have a strict regime of Monday is, legs, Tuesdays, chest or however you wanna split it up or anything like that.

I try and just stay consistent, keep it, three to five days a week with, if it's a day. Out on the creek and I'm fishing and I'm on my feet that whole day. Okay. I'm alright with not working out that day. Cause usually when I'm doing that, especially if I'm alone, I'm covered several miles in a day and it's, climbing up and down out of creeks and stuff like that.

And I was actually talking to all my old bosses, he is still my boss, but last year at the fly fishing school that he and I instruct that and we were talking about getting into like fishing shapes, like that and how it's like a different type of fitness Yeah.

Where it's like you don't have to be in great shape, but you gotta, there's something about still being able to scramble up a bank if you need to and that kind of stuff. Or, just having the Sure footedness or, being able to feel things out and fight the current and all that.

And Yeah. It's its own sort of, [00:55:00] Genre of fitness or type of fitness, whatever, just like saddle hunting, just like western hunting, just Turkey hunting, like you name it. I don't know, but for me I try and make sure that I'm in the gym whether it be doing body weight stuff or hitting the weight three to five days a week and, one or two of those days is typically, I'm trying to be a little more consistent with it, but especially with the weather warming up now, I'm trying to get some miles on the treadmill and now outside a couple days a week, but nothing crazy.

Just stuff that feels good, yeah. That's the thing. Start building that endurance. Okay. Now it's okay I think I can go a little further now. I can do a little bit more there, but Yeah. Yeah. After all the years of trying to gain weight for football, I'm , I'm good with just taking resy now.

Yeah. A joint. A little worn out even for being 26, but . Yeah, man I think that last piece you mentioned, consistency is gonna be key. Absolutely. Guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Hot topics part two. We got a couple more headed your way. If you like these, please let us [00:56:00] know. If you think we got it wrong, please let us know.

If you hate these episodes, please let us know that. It doesn't mean I'm gonna do anything different, it just means that I know that you hate me. Anyway, so Pierces, thanks for coming on the show today and man, we look forward to talking to you next time. Looking forward to it, man. Thanks for having me.

That's all for this week's episode. As always, thank you so much for tuning in. If you dig this show, be sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever it is that you get your podcast. If you could leave us a five star review, I would very much appreciate that. While you're at it, you can follow along with my outdoor adventures on Instagram at How to hunt deer.

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