How to Hunt More and Argue Less

It's late June! Hopefully you're ironing out your hunting plans for this fall. If your like many hunters, those hunt planning conversations with your spouse can look more like arguments, with neither side walking away very happy with how things went down. What if there's a better way? A way to argue less AND hunt more? And what if that way is NOT a divorce?

In this episode of the How to Hunt Deer Podcast, Josh talks with his wife, professional counselor Tiffany Raley, about how spouses can spend more time hunting and less time arguing about it. 

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Welcome to the How to Hunt Deer podcast, which is brought to you by Tactic Camp. This podcast aims to educate those who are interested in becoming deer hunters, brushing up on essential skills, or maybe just adding a few new tactics to the toolkit. Here we cover a variety of topics that are gonna help you be more successful in the field while you're hunting deer.

Thank you so much for tuning in with me this week. This week. We're gonna jump [00:01:00] right into it. No no real introduction, because I'm just gonna do the introduction with my guests sitting right here across the table from me. Before we jump in though, I do wanna say thanks to our partners. First of all, TCAM, the title sponsor of the show.

Hopefully you've got your bow out already and our practicing for the upcoming fall. Hopefully deer hunting is on your mind and hopefully you're thinking about self filming your hunts. It's one of the most rewarding things that I have done making that transition to being someone who self films and an tactic.

Cam point of view, cameras to me, are just the most no-nonsense way of beginning to film your hunts. It's a lot of work when you start carrying in a camera arm, an extra camera, microphone, extra batteries, all that stuff. But with Tac Camm 6.0 or Tac Camm solo Extreme Camera, you don't have to worry about carrying all of that stuff.

Their cameras are light, they're compact, they've got just the right mounts and adapters to put them pretty much anywhere you want them to be. And one of the places that I want mine to be is on the front of my bow. So I love their stabilizer mount that holds my [00:02:00] 6.0. And part of what I'm doing this year, making sure that I'm ready to go is shooting with the, not just the stabilizer mountain, but with my camera on there already.

And that's doing a couple things for me. Number one, it's getting me used to that feel of that little bit of extra weight on the front of my bow. Number two, I'm training myself not to drop the bow arm at the shot. The reason that I want to do that, or I don't want to do that I know it looks cool when you watch some of your favorite YouTubers.

They like to, fake a surprise release and drop their boat arm. But I don't know of a much better way of saying that. But if you're filming your hunts with a tactic, cam, you've got it in the stabilizer mount. You don't want to drop that arm. You wanna follow the deer, follow the shot with that camera.

And yeah, so I'm practicing with mine already. I recommend you do the same. Head over to tactic cam.com. Grab the camera of your choice, whether that be a 6.0 or a solo extreme. They're both great cameras. Go ahead and pick up the one that you're going to be using this fall, or thinking about using this fall.

Get it on your bow. Start practicing with it right now. And in case you're wondering the TCA [00:03:00] 6.0 and the Solo Extreme make fantastic Father's Day gifts. So head over to tac cam.com, grab one for yourself, grab one for your dad, whatever the case may be. And yeah, start sharing your hunt with tac cam.

Next up, OnX, this is that time of year when scouting from the couch is one of my favorite things to do. Really don't have a lot of enjoyment out there in the woods. Once we get past, I don't know, mid-June or so, it's kinda man, it's hot. I'd rather be doing other things. And if I am gonna be scouting, it's gonna be from.

Either a vehicle or it's going to be from my couch and OnX lets me do that. Onyx right now has a wonderful deal going on. If you use the code Dad 23, you can get 30% off. So if you or your dad do not currently use on X, this is a fantastic Father's Day gift. It's gonna get you 30% off of their elite and premium memberships.

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So go check it out. You can find them on the app store of your choice or head over to their website onxmaps.com to learn more. So I have the privilege to have my beautiful wife Miss Tiffany Rayley on the show tonight. Tiffany, thanks for coming on. Absolutely. So how long have I been asking you to do this?

A long time. I don't have a exact date, but it's been a while. Yeah. And so you're not averse to doing a podcast. You're not like, afraid of doing it. No. You're not against them? No. I love podcasts hunting, though. Not your thing. Not my area of expertise, for sure. I I wouldn't even say it's not your area of expertise.

Like you're a good hunter. Like you've hunted before. You've killed deer. Yeah. You're a good hunter when you're in the field. You're very serious about movement, very serious about being quiet, stealthy. Like you take everything very you're a very intense hunter. Maybe a little [00:05:00] bit more so than you.

You're way more intense than I am. And I do it a lot. Like I really like it. But you just don't necessarily enjoy it. Yeah, it's not my thing. Why? I didn't grow up as a hunter. I'd never seen a bow and arrow or a gun in person until I met you. I don't know that I even knew very many people that hunted at all.

So it was just not an area that was developed for me, not an area of interest. It's just not how my brain works. Yeah. You grew up in a small town in Alabama, and for me, living around small towns in Alabama, hunting around small towns in Alabama, I don't understand the fact that not a lot of people hunted where you grew up, but it's true.

Like I know a lot of people who live in your town now, and even the ones that do hunt, they don't hunt the way I think about hunting. It's just not the same level. It's like they, they may go out for Thanksgiving, hunt with the family or Maybe every [00:06:00] couple years they'll go on a little hunting trip.

Yeah. We know people that literally take years off of deer hunting and they just, nah, I didn't get out this year. I don't understand that. So when I met you and you told me you like to hunt, that's what I, that was my conceptualization of it. That was my understanding of hunting. Okay.

That's not a problem. But it is a problem. Yeah. It's a big problem. So that's good. You're, we're alluding to what our topic is for today. The, I think I'm gonna title this episode something like how to argue Less and Hunt more, or how to hunt more and Argue Less. Not because we have it figured out of how we work it to where I get to hunt as much as I want to and we don't argue about it.

It's not that at all. It's that through, I. Gosh, coming up on 14 years of marriage we have struggled through this right year after year and our lives have changed. So we went from being college students who are married to being graduate school students who are married and started [00:07:00] having kids.

Now we've got kids that are a little bit older. Neither one of us are in school anymore. You, we have careers. And life stages have changed. And my hunting, the amount that I do has probably stayed the same throughout our marriage, but it looks different now than it used to. Like I probably hunt as many days now.

Actually more now. Probably more, yeah, probably more now. But it looks very different than it used to. I actually, I wouldn't even say probably more. I know for a fact this year and last year I've hunted more days than any time previously. And. There, there are obviously some vocational things that, that go along with that, but it also comes down to us finding a system that kind of works for us.

And I'm not saying that it's perfect or that, there were no hiccups or problems or anything like that, but what I am saying is that we found something that works better for us [00:08:00] than what we had done before. And but beyond being my wife, and so I think able to come in and speak to this you are also a licensed therapist.

I am. So tell me, first of all, why did you decide to go to go that route? And what kind of input do you think that has made you capable of contributing to our discussions around. Hunting and time away and that kind of stuff. You mean why did I go that route? As far as into the counseling career?

Yeah, just whatever you wanna share. Yeah. So I yes, I'm a licensed professional counselor. I enjoy what I do. Mental health and spiritual health, relational health, that all is very important to me. Being a healthy person and a healthy family is a high value to me. And so I don't know that I have a lot to contribute, necessarily from a professional, standpoint.

However, I know that you and I have had to by necessity put some things in [00:09:00] place that work for us as far as healthy communication and just, healthy, relational skills. Because this is probably one of the areas that has brought us the most conflict now. I feel like we've navigated it pretty well overall, but we are, Neither one of us argue a lot, but when we do, it's about hunting every time.

It is related to hunting. How about that? It's not always about like just me going hunting sometimes it's about me talking about hunting or me not talking about other things. But you're correct. It has been something that has been a source of conflict for us.

But at the outset, I feel like guys need to know that. And ladies, if they're ladies listening to this need to know you should have known better. I definitely should have known better. I like from the beginning of our relationship you should have known better.

I, I don't know of a better way to say it. Like I, I set you up for success. As far [00:10:00] as knowing how things were gonna go, do you wanna share that? Maybe share that story? Sure. Yeah. So I often say, there are premarital assessments that help you like navigate engagement and help set you up for marriage.

And it's really a really great tool. But I often say, man, in premarital assessments, it ought to say there ought to be a whole different section for like hunters, because those, that hunt there, it's not like oftentimes there, there's like a hobby, part of that assessment to assess like how much time do you spend doing hobbies and that kind of thing.

But like, when I embroider. Embroider heat. That's a hobby. I can do it for, 15 minutes a day. Sometimes I don't do it. Sometimes I can let it go, for weeks and not embroider, those kinds of things. But hunting is a lifestyle and it's it's a way of thinking. It is like you are hardwired to, to think about and [00:11:00] to live out hunting.

So I do, I've often made that joke of there needs to be a whole section in a premarital assessment about this. I would still choose you, I'd still get married to you, but it would be nice. Would to know. Would you though? Cause like I, there are days that I'm not so sure you would. But you're right.

I think too though, it does come back to what you saw a as this is a hunter growing up, it wasn't. The, it just wasn't the way that I hunt and it wasn't the way that a lot of the people that listen to this podcast right hunt, like the, if you're a guy that listens to hunting podcasts for fun, you're probably not a guy that's okay with hunting one day a year.

Or skipping a season cuz it's just, had a lot going on. There were some really good football games, so I just skipped, on Saturdays I didn't hunt, I just watched college football instead. That's probably not your jam. But there is a story, but there Yes.

Sorry. There is a story, a pretty dramatic story. Yes. [00:12:00] It was young, Josh young, less intelligent, Josh. And apparently young, less intelligent Tiffany. Josh and I, had met the freshman year of our first semester of our time at a school called Southeastern Bible College. Also known as Bridal college because everybody meets up and finds their mate.

But yeah, we're the ones still married though. So you can't say that.

Sorry. Keep going. We had began spending time together and you had convinced me to go on a date with you, and I was a little apprehensive. But I was rough around the edges. You were a little rough around the edges. Yeah. You weren't far outta rehab at that point. I haven't told that story on the podcast, but you're right.

Surprise people. You're like, wait a sec. Hey what did this just turn into? Yeah, you're right. I was not far out of rehab. So you were a little [00:13:00] rough around the edges. I was a little apprehensive, but also pretty smitten. And so when you asked me on a date, I was a room roommate with my best friend from high school, Jennifer.

And so we went out to the mall together. We picked out an outfit and the jewelry, all the things that you do right for the, your first date. So I got ready, she did my hair. It was about like 15 minutes. Until, and I get a text from you on our like, super cool razors. You remember those phones? You had this cool flippy foam.

I can't even describe it. That one was a little bit later. That little snicker bar shaped, teeny tiny thing. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, I got a text. I'm my little razor that you might not be available anymore and that you might be going squirrel hunting. As it happens we lived very close together.

We lived in the guys in the girls' dorm and they were buddies. They were right next door to each other. So I walk outside and you're [00:14:00] outside with your Cajun friend. I won't mention his name because I still think I still have some anger issues with him. Not really, but. I walk outside, you're with your friend and y'all, you are not dressed and ready to go.

You have not even thought about this date, and you have a crazy look in your eye and you're talking about squirrel hunting. And you said to me like, I haven't ever gotten to go squirrel hunting before. He's gonna take me squirrel hunting. And I was like I thought you and I were going out tonight.

And you were like we can do that, but I'm gonna go squirrel hunting first. And I was like I don't think that's how it works. Like you can't just come back like four hours later than expect that I'm still gonna be here. But of course, I was freshly 18 and I had the assertiveness skills of a mouse.

And so I didn't necessarily say any of that. But lo and behold, you went hunting and I did [00:15:00] not go on a date that night. Yes. And that's why I say you should have known I should have. You should have known. I should have seen all the flags and irana. Yes, exactly. Now very far away. I will say at this point in my life, I had been deer hunting for, for a long time at that point, like a decade.

I had been fishing my whole life. I had never hunted squirrels and I'd certainly never hunted squirrels with a really good squirrel dog. And this guy that we were going with not the Cajun guy, but a friend of his, had a really good squirrel dog. So I might also mention you had never been on a date with me.

That's true. That's true. That was gonna be our first our first date. But. I thought we could go on a date when I got back that evening. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, you were there when I cleaned the squirrels. I came back to the school parking lot and offered me a squirrel and offered you some squirrel, and I cleaned the squirrels on the tailgate in front of the dorm.

Yeah. And you took pictures, [00:16:00] right? Like I've got pictures Yeah. That you took. And it must not have been that big a deal. Yeah. That's why we're talking about it 16 years later. Yeah. Oh, dear. Yeah. So this is, could also be titled how not to date a Girl. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. TIFF, what I really wanted to get into, number one, I have to say to everyone on here, you have been a rockstar. Like you have worked really hard to help me get into the woods and get into the timber, even as our kids have been. Even as our kids were born and then moving into, now them getting older and getting busier.

You starting your career where now I, I joke all the time say, you're my sugar mama. And it's because of you. I get to do what I do and I really appreciate that. And you have prioritized my hunting in a way that I feel like it's above and beyond. So I thought we would maybe talk about on here what are some of the things that we've done to make that work?

And maybe before we get to [00:17:00] that, let's talk about what didn't work leading up to all of this. Early on in our marriage, what didn't work was I was a big weather hunter, right? Like in, when we lived in Alabama and then when we lived in Louisiana, when I would see those cold fronts coming through, like that's when I wanted to go hunting.

Pretty much didn't matter, what was going on. If I saw a good cold front coming through, I wanted to get out and hit the woods. And that was because it was hot as Hades all the time in Alabama. Like it, the weather did not get good. So if I saw a good afternoon in November or a nice chilly morning in late October, I was going hunting and that did not work well for us.

So what maybe, what was it about that made it not work so well and how did you encourage me to pivot? Yeah, so I think as far as like the weather hunting, I think one thing that I had to pivot [00:18:00] first is I had to empathize and understand, like it took me a long time in our marriage to understand what hunting meant to you, and over time I learned that it wasn't something that like.

It wasn't necessarily just selfishness, but there was this drive in you to hunt as if you were bringing home meat for the family. No. I get that. We have markets and we don't need to do that, but there's this drive in you that is not quite explainable and I had to shift my focus to understand how the good Lord made you and lean into that a little bit and empathize with what that must be like for you.

Yeah, it's primal. It's primal. Yeah, absolutely. So I will say the weather thing I also didn't understand. I did not understand why we could not pick a date three weeks in advance and I could schedule my. My, my calendar and color code it for what day you're gonna be hunting. And I could schedule a girls' night or whatever, girls [00:19:00] brunch, whatever it is, because that just, that did not work.

It was almost constant that I would say, just pick a date and let me know. And then that wouldn't happen. And then you'd say, oh, hey, by the way, a cold front's coming in. I'm gonna be gone all day tomorrow. Whoa, wait a second. That's not gonna work for me. Especially once we started having children, and we had very busy lifestyles at the time being in ministry.

Like we didn't have a lot of just chill off time. So a whole day off. Especially not on weekends. Especially not on weekends. So a whole day of you not being there, especially when my love language is quality time, that just didn't fly to me and it felt really unloving, but a shift in my perspective and trying to better know you and understand how you're wired and you better understanding me and how I'm wired and that I need some heads up and I like to have things organized and scheduled and that I'm a quality time person.

That all, I think both of those, us understanding each [00:20:00] other and respecting how we're each, like our personalities and how we're wired really helped the both of us manage a little better. Yeah, and I think another thing that plays into that too is one, the duration of the season in in the south, because this would start like opening day, I always went on opening day no matter the weather, right?

I was hunting on opening day. Oh, opening day of archery season, and then typically on opening day of firearm season as well. And then I always had the traditional time that I would hunt with my family back at our property in South Alabama. That was right around Thanksgiving. But then outside of that, I would just hunt anytime there was good looking weather.

And then our rut was later in the season and it wasn't just, for you guys who are maybe up north or in the Midwest or something like that, you may not quite understand, but like our rut down here is not compressed into 14 days of chasing and chaos. It is, 40 days of hoping to catch a buck who's up and cruising.

So it's not the [00:21:00] same kind of big event and opportunity. So there's a lot more time. It's more drawn out and I always felt the need to be there for that. Like I always felt the need to hunt that multiple weekends during the rut or multiple days during the rut. Always felt like I needed to hunt early season as well.

So yeah, you're right though. You made some pretty big shifts as far as understanding and knowing what hunting meant to me. I also had to get off of that cold front kick just a little bit. I had to realize from your perspective, like you're much more of a planner. I'm a planner.

I like to know what I'm doing. I like to not have plans. That's what I like. I plan not to have plans. That's my thing. Your favorite day is when you have something planned and it gets canceled and we cancel it. That's like my favorite thing ever when I get to, and if you love the people involved, oh yeah.

I can absolutely love the person and cancel a plan. Yes, canceled. So yes, all of that is true. But when it comes to the way that we hunt [00:22:00] now, we have changed that up quite a bit. First of all I've stopped with the hole. Every time a cold front rolls through, I try to go hunting thing, right?

I have decided to concentrate my hunting into what I believe is like the absolute best time period that I can be hunting. And that may be, like here in Georgia if we find a good, feed tree or something like that early in the season where there's acorns dropping your face is losing, I'm losing my wife right now, guys.

This is for those of you who want to talk strategy and deer hunting. If I find a good feed tree and I have a good win and good weather for that stand, I may try to get out for an afternoon or I, we have good weather roll through. I may try to get out early in the season or something like that, but I'm not gonna pester the wife about it.

I'm not gonna change plans for it. I'm not gonna shift things around for it. I'm concentrating my time. My efforts in what I believe is my highest opportunity, time and place to kill a buck. [00:23:00] And what that means for me is that I drive 13, 12, 13 hours across the country at this point to hunt for two weeks straight.

So in the beginning of our relationship, when I'm having a hard time understanding why you are talking about hunting all the time, it also, we were also in an area that didn't have great hunting. No. Hold on. I can't even let you get away with that. It's not that it didn't have great hunting, it's that it had no hunting, miserable hunting.

It had the worst hunting of anywhere I've ever been in my entire life. I can count on one hand the number of deer we saw over the years of living there, like up and around our place. I had to drive at least an hour, and it was an hour and 15 minutes to get to the closest public land available to me.

That public land was garbage and it was covered in snakes and alligators. So literally covered in this stuff. Yes. And so it was hard for [00:24:00] me to justify not having time with my spouse and not having support at home with my babies when I know you're gonna go and you're not even going to see an animal other than a squirrel.

Like why are we wasting our time with this? Yes, I get that. It's relaxing to you, so let's do that every, a couple months, whatever. But no, I don't want you to have 30 days of hunting or whatever it is when you're not gonna have any success. And that's gonna contribute to my frustration level because it's like I put in the effort to show you, that care or to allow you to do it, and then you just end up frustrated too.

Yeah. Guys, there you, what you just heard right there is if you want to your wife to leave you alone about hunting a little bit. Kill more deer just be more successful when you go out, because when you go out and you don't kill anything, she's what did I even do that for? What in the world?

And but realistically though, one of the best things that you can do is to put yourself [00:25:00] in a better hunting opportunity. And if that means you have to hunt fewer days to hunt a better place I think at this stage of our life, I'm willing to make that trade. And that's the trade that we've made, right?

I wouldn't even say I hunt fewer days though. I hunt as many, or possibly a couple more days of hunting. I think a lot more. But you're right. I, yeah. But it's all concentrated into one small window, right? So that, that allows us to do a couple things. Number one, You can plan it, right? You can have it on the schedule.

You know that it's coming. I'm not pestering you about it. I'm pestering you about it, but I'm not asking can we go? Can we go? I'm pestering you about it because I'm getting ready for it pretty much. Un until the day. Oh my God, yes. The day that I leave. Number two, my odds of success are much, much higher.

Of actually bagging an animal because I've got multiple days to put together a plan and adjust and move and shift according to what I'm seeing in the field. It also [00:26:00] allows for for me to have some good weather days in the midst of that. If you take 10 days to hunt or 14 days to hunt in November, you're gonna get good weather at some point.

Like it, it may not be good weather the whole time. Just look at my hunt last year in Wisconsin when it was. 75 degrees on multiple days, or 70 something degrees on multiple days. And then other days it was pouring down rain and lightning chased me out of the woods. But there were really good weather days maybe not great weather days, but there were okay weather days in there.

Like we had cold fronts that would blow through after it'd be 70. It would drop down to a high of 50. Not exactly what I'm looking for but better. So all in all, that has worked better for us. I think it was still hard for you though, for me to be gone for that extended period of a time.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's tough on any, any set of parents, There, there's a reason. There are two parents involved is because we need two parents to take care of all the needs. And so yes, it, my [00:27:00] capacity for any parent's capacity to parent for that long, god bless single parents.

It is just a, it's a challenge and it's a sacrifice. Yeah. But so yeah, it's a challenge, but I also, if I know it's coming and we've prepared for it and we've talked about it, and I know what to expect and putting on my empathy hat a little bit and caring about what it's like for you then it makes it a little bit more bearable.

Yeah. What do you wish like one of the things that I'm so glad that you have come around to understand is how important hunting is to me. It's not just I see it all the time where the guys are like, man, I just love to go sit in the woods and watch the woods wake up. And I like that too.

But I really like killing animals. Also, like as the woods are waking up, I like to put something to sleep, you know what I'm saying? And I like being in the woods, but I really like hunt, like specifically being there for targeting an animal. And you've come to understand like my drive to hunt a little bit [00:28:00] better.

What do you wish I understood better when it comes to hunting and the toll on you and our family? I put you on the spot for this one. You did put me on the spot for this one. I don't know. I think I think of it like my cup being full, like when my cup is filled, when I feel love, when my needs are met, when the family's needs are met, when the house isn't a mess.

Like why'd you just look around at the basement when you said, when the house isn't a mess. We're not videoed. You don't have to admit that. It's my hunting gear that's everywhere. I'll say it, it's my hunting stuff. When things are in order and you have invested in our relationship and in the kids' relationship with you then that, that increases my capacity to even have the room to say, sure.

That, that sounds good. Go hunting for. A couple days, go hunting for a week, go hunting for two weeks, because when those things aren't in order [00:29:00] those are prerequisites for my ability to have the space and capacity to, one, have empathy but two, to be able to say, okay, I think I can handle this.

Or I even want to attempt to to handle this. Because it does take a toll and it, and each parent or even each partner in their relationship, even if children aren't involved only has so much capacity to be like, yeah, go. Sure. So I guess that that when all the other, when all the other needs of the home are met, then it increases my ability to To have that perspective and to give you that time.

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Share your hunt with tac Camm. I think that's something I worked on this past year. When it came to me leaving for Wisconsin in November and then me leaving for Iowa and Wisconsin this past spring. It was not something that I've mastered in the in between. It's something that we're still trying to figure out, [00:31:00] especially after our move.

I feel like things are a lot less organized and a lot more disheveled. Still cuz we, we hit the ground running after our move to Georgia too fast. Yeah. Yeah. We took zero time off like literally I didn't take time off to move. I worked in the evenings. Yeah. I remember, I was doing Zoom sessions Yeah.

In between as well. So Yeah. You were taking clients over Zoom? I remember literally we're driving down and I'm recording and editing and uploading podcasts from a hotel room. Trying to get. All of our stuff down. Like I remember sitting in the, in, in the Sequoia, like recording an intro so that I could get a podcast out right that night and uploading it in a hotel room at one in the morning.

Yes. So I think that does bring up a good point of margin. Like you have to have margin in your life in order to, be able to have a, an active hunting lifestyle. And this season has not necessarily, or at least [00:32:00] initially when we moved, was not a season of margin for us. It was so busy and hectic.

And when you move across the country, like we probably would've been wise to have a little bit more margin. Yeah. And by, by margin you just mean that space around the edges where we don't have something that we have to do. Yeah. Which yeah, that's critical in pretty much every. Every bit of human existence just to be a thriving person, you have to have some level of margin.

And we didn't for a long time. When it comes to taking care of things around the house, right? Or making sure things are cared for. I often see guys talk about that as brownie points. And I talk about it as brownie points too. I think a lot of guys, and I think I personally focus a lot on the brownie points.

Hey, let me get this, these front porch posts put up. You remember when I did that? Yeah. Hey, let me get this floor knocked out, this flooring knocked out. Hey, let me get this other thing, done around the house, this big project that you want done. [00:33:00] We are less often as serious about the day-to-day meeting basic needs of our children and of our wives and of the home in general.

But we're tenacious about the big projects. Does that make sense? Yeah. So what is it one, what is it psychologically that makes that happen? Number two, what if this year as we're getting ready that what if I don't worry about brownie points? What if there are no brownie points?

What if it's just you just feel loved because I've just been present and present with you and with the kids, and like the basement doesn't look like it looks right now. Yeah. I think that's it. Like those, relational needs being met. I would say, I can't speak for every couple, but what I imagine to be true for most couples is That, that argument about hunting or whatever it is, of you're going hunting again, I can't [00:34:00] believe you're doing that, or you always go hunting or, yeah, just leave me here by myself with the kids.

Not that's the language that we use, but I imagine a lot of those hunt those conversations, they are other messages that could probably be better communicated, but are, Hey, I don't feel loved right now. You haven't met my needs that are legitimate needs. Or I legitimately am struggling right now, or I need time with you, or you haven't shown that you cared at all.

You sh you're showing more care about hunting and I think one thing that we've had to do is get a lot better at communicating that rather than no, you can't go hunting. Like, why would you ask that again? Instead saying, Hey, I'm feeling really unloved because you haven't spent a lot of time with me.

And I wish you would put a little bit more effort into that before you are putting all this effort into going off to kill an animal. Yeah. No, that's really good. That's really good. And I see people joke about it online. I have one specific [00:35:00] person in mind. They do a lot of it, but talk about the, like asking to go hunting and that kind of thing, and yes or no, and ha and I get some of that, but really there's something way more serious behind it than just, oh, wife doesn't want the husband to hunt because she doesn't want him to be happy.

Oftentimes there's. Significant unmet needs. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like legitimate unmet needs of the marriage. And I don't love that language of asking, like I'm asking my wife to go hunting. But I think what I hear behind that is like it is a team. Everything's a team effort.

We're working in this together. It's not an a me decision or a you decision. It is, Hey, I'm considering what my wife's needs are. And I think that language of oh, my, my wife's not gonna let me go hunting. I think that creates a me versus you mentality rather than, okay, what are the needs of our family and is there room for is there room for hunting?

And keeping in mind that part of, [00:36:00] that, the need of the family is for the wife or the husband, whoever the hunter is to, reset and to have that hunting need met. Because I know for you, like it is your primary coping skill. Like when it, I mean there have been times in life that you have been so stressed.

I'm like, I'm so sorry there's not a season right now, but can you go find something to go hunt because you obviously need this and that's a legitimate need too, and. Yeah. So I don't have a ton to say about that. But instead of, oh, can I go hunt? Okay, what are the needs of the whole family?

Are your needs met? Are my needs met? And communicating that with kindness and with empathy of Hey, I'm feeling really stressed out. It would be really, I would feel really loved if you let me, or not let me, but I would feel really loved if I got out this morning for a hunt because I need some time.

And in God's creation in the beautiful woods. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's a settlement too where like [00:37:00] things are never 50 50 no. In a marriage, right? It's always skewed one way or another. And even when it looks 50 50, somebody is doing some, somebody is doing the cooking and cleaning while somebody's doing the working or somebody's playing with the kids while somebody's cutting the grass.

You know what I mean? It's. It's all hands on deck pretty much all the time. But there is the, quote unquote a hundred percent, I guess you would say that the home requires a hundred percent. And sometimes it feels like 200%, sometimes it feels like a thousand. And especially when you've got our kids, no, they're great.

I love them. When it comes to hunting and for asking to go hunting or that whole concept, really what we're saying is, Hey, do you have it in you to give a hundred percent and me give zero for the next however long period of time? That's what we're asking. And if you look at it like that, I feel like it opens my eyes a little bit to say oh my gosh.

I'm [00:38:00] honestly asking for them to give a hundred percent and for me to give zero for the next two weeks. And have I then all of a sudden it becomes like, Ooh, did I set them up? For that. Did I set Tiffany up well to handle a hundred percent of the house?

Am I leaving it a mess? Am I leaving a pile of laundry? Am I leaving cars that need gas? Which is always Yes. When it comes to Joshua. But listen, here's the thing. You drive back and forth to places here in Georgia. I drive four miles down the road to get kids right. And I drive back.

Like I, I don't go places. I either, I drive four miles to the school to get the children, or I'm driving to Wisconsin. Yeah. It's like I've got two modes. And they're not the kind where you just, I don't think I'll swing by the gas station today. You know what I mean? It's just very different.

Alright, so moving forward practically. So I think we've covered some things that guys can do. One of them obviously being, taking care of of things around the house. Not just like the house itself, when I say taking care of things around the house, Take your wife on some dates and be present there.

[00:39:00] Go places with your kids, take your kids on some kid dates and be present with them. Be a recognizable 50 plus percent while you are, while you're around so that people around you feel loved and cured for so that they can take the a hundred percent while you're gone. What else would you say is like a good way to go about this?

Or maybe there's somebody who's struggled to really have this conversation in a meaningful way and this is just like a sore spot for their marriage. What would you say to them? Yeah, I think, communi healthy communication is absolutely key. That, that is the truth.

Whether it comes to who's taking the kids to school or who's doing dishes or, how many animals you're gonna go kill this year. It just, is it is such a key piece of marriage and it highlights itself, I think when it comes to hunting for the marriages that have a hunter in it.

It certainly, you can see those communication struggles come up real quick.[00:40:00] But I think being really healthy or being really. Clear about what you're experiencing and what you're feeling. But in order to do that, you have to know what you're feeling like. I know so often I'll, I'll get, I can get crabby about you hunting.

And I, I don't take a second to say, okay, why am I being crabby? What am I experiencing? Am I experiencing, frustration? And I think a lot of times at the beginning of our marriage, like what I felt was neglect and that might, that, might sound severe, but like when you look at in my world, like we look at feelings, wills so that we can add, accurately determine which emotion we're experiencing and why.

And so to be able to say, okay, I'm feeling a little neglected, could you step in and meet this need? Because every relationship has legitimate needs and has legitimate cues throughout the day that says, Hey, are you here for me? Do you care? And so if that, That, cue[00:41:00] throughout the day is no, that person isn't here for me and they don't care.

That's going to create issues in all kinds of ways, not just hunting. So being really good at knowing when you're getting upset and why you're getting upset and communicating that. But I think also in that communication is communicating exactly what you need. And that's hard for me. I'm not a person that asks for needs very well I'm really bad at it.

But you do really well with that if I'm like, okay, if you're going to leave for two weeks, like the, these are what my needs are. Like I, you, I absolutely have to. Have the house clean when you leave. Like I, it can't start in a mess. Maybe other people don't deal with messy houses, but that's probably one of our struggles.

It feels it's like we are, look, when you've got an eight, seven, and four year old who are just constant mess makers. Yeah. There's no way. We've got some major crafters in our home we, we try to encourage the creativity, but man, oh man, it can get messy real quick. You know that, I know that over this last year when [00:42:00] you went to Wisconsin, I was able to communicate.

Okay. Before you leave. I would like, I would really appreciate if we had the house cleaned, the laundry was completed. And then there was a couple like, things like the oil needs to be changed that way I felt set up for success and wasn't drowning while you were gone. Do you have, what are your thoughts about that?

No, that's exactly right. That's Yeah I don't think I do super well necessarily getting all the things done. Like I know for spring Turkey, like I, I didn't get to everything and it came up on time to go. You said I'd do well with that. You're gonna get 110% from me for, for whatever time leading up to that.

I'm gonna try my absolute best. Yeah. I'm going to be sacrificing sleep leading up to the trip because I want to set you up for success because I value not only getting to do that and what I'm doing, but I value what you sacrifice to make it happen for me. And I think, in the same vein[00:43:00] like asking for what I need from like our, a relational standpoint.

So I love you, but sometimes your brain only, I. Only goes to deerland or Turkey land. I like it. It is just constantly on your mind. And so it's not that you don't care, but like you thinking, oh, I took a trip to go Turkey hunting. I should probably, take Tiffany on a weekend getaway.

Like that just doesn't come up in your mind. Nope. But when I say, Hey, I wanna go on a weekend getaway, you get excited about it and then you start planning all of that. But you do really well with, hey, if you wanna go on a Turkey hunt, like we, we have to go on a weekend getaway before x date and like that, like you having some specific barriers and I don't think that's probably a good healthy pattern for every couple.

I'm just like, this is something that I've noticed about you. Yep. Like before Turkey season last year, I was like, that's great that you wanna do a whole bunch of Turkey hunting, but we have not had enough time together, like just away without the kids. Your [00:44:00] goal, your mission is to, to plan a getaway and you can plan it all.

And you did that and you took us to Chicago and it was so wonderful. We stayed at the Navy pier and I forgot I did that. Look at me hot. Look at you dog. See, but when I'm able to communicate, which I'm not always good at, I don't think anybody's always good at it. But when I'm able to communicate Hey, that's great that you wanna go hunting, but I also need you to put some effort and thought into this.

And not take it, not take offense that you didn't just come up on that idea on your own because your head is elsewhere. Yeah. About animals and habitat and all this, though, that, that's a another good point. Like that I think probably should be made at this point for spouses like.

Just because you have to tell your spouse what you need doesn't mean that it's not loving or not as good when they give you what you need. If you need an apology and then you say it doesn't count cause I had to ask for it. That's stupid. It does still count. It sounds like you're talking from personal exp like I am talking from [00:45:00] personal experience, but it's not at you right now.

You're the one that taught me this. Like you're the one that taught me this, so no, I'm not talking at you. But like we aren't always aware of what other people need. Like we can't possibly be inside of someone's head and heart all the time to know exactly what they need. Now, can we grow in that and is that another way that we show love and appreciation?

Absolutely. But it's okay to just let your spouse know, Hey, look, I need this time to hunt at a different level. And it's okay for your spouse to come to you and say, I need this from you. I. You should try to meet that. Like you should try to meet them part of the way. Earlier. Oh, first of all, I did take you to Chicago.

You did? And it was great. It was wonderful. And I took you to a swanky dinner. It was wonderful. Oh my word. And that's not like going to Chicago is not your. That's not your jam. Like I hate it being in the city, like where there's not any greenery is [00:46:00] not, no, it's awful. You're going to, but like that it, it even more showed that you cared what was important to me because you were willing to spend time doing the things that I wanted.

And that is another thing that I will say, and I learned this from a retreat we went to. It was just a lovely little retreat and they talked about the different Play personalities and it's just an opportunity for like marriage enrichment and enjoyment and it was so lovely and they take such good care of you.

But one of the things that they were teaching us about is like just the importance of fun and play. And they just made us laugh so much while we were there. But one thing that was pretty convicting to me was, they talked about entering into the different types of play even if it's not of interest to you.

And so like honestly, I don't love hunting since I last shot a deer when I was pregnant with my daughter, I didn't know I was pregnant and I shot a deer and I became super [00:47:00] emotional and it was confusing to everyone involved.

She shot the deer immediately, is just.

And I had previously shot deer. Yeah. And I didn't know it. And so you were like, come get me. And I was like, I just got in my tree. I'll see you. Yeah. And I'm like, I left you there until dark. Yes. Yeah. You're not coming across really great on this podcast.

So yeah, so I sat in this tree and there's this like mutilated deer in front of me and I am pregnant and don't know it. And so I'm a little bit more emotional and I am just not. Okay. And so since then I, I have not hunted and, but. The, what I did learn and what my takeaway was is it's important to engage in different types of interests that are, interesting and important to your spouse.

I [00:48:00] hunting's not interesting to me, but it's important that I engage in that, or in conversation about that because it allows connection between us. And it's important for you to come to the city with me sometime and or, I really enjoy exercising, but you don't love to exercise just to exercise or to exercise with other people around.

And so you have, you've learned to enter into that with me as well. Yeah. You know what I've,

but I do think.

Like I took you to Chicago. That stood out to you

way. Yeah. Even though we did cool stuff in real quick. Yeah, it was cool. It was beautiful. We had a little cottage. I took you to a really dinner[00:49:00]

bikes. Like we went fly fishing. We went, yeah, that is what, because it felt like it was just another outdoor adventure that I really didn't want anything to do with it. And I had a blast fly fishing. You had a blast. You loved fly fishing. I feel like I need to remind you how much you, it was a blast fly fishing.

I so enjoyed it. And you caught your first probably caught, I don't remember. You caught a bunch. Had a really good time and that was the only thing we did that was outdoorsy. And it was just me and you shoulder to shoulder the whole time. Like it was, it's not like it was stand. I thought it was gonna be a home run.

And it was. It was, yeah, it was a solid base hit, maybe even a double. It was a lovely trip, but because it was focused a little bit on your interests, it just felt more [00:50:00] capacity that I had to have for thinking about outdoors things when that's not my area of interest. Yeah. Meanwhile, I can take you to

you absolutely love. That's alright. Anybody listening to this show doesn't like Chicago? Oh, Joshua, the offensive things I probably shouldn't. Alright, anything else that we need to cover? We, I was like, Hey, let's record this, and you're like I don't know. It'll be fast. It'll be quick. No worries.

Yeah. I feel like we should, we could probably talk about this for d for days, but I think like bottom line, like care about what your spouse or significant other is saying to you if they're trying to tell you what they're feeling or what they're experiencing, even if they're not saying it well and you're not hearing them or you're not, listening and taking that to heart and trying to understand what their experience is it's not gonna go well for you.

All right. Anything else?[00:51:00] No, that's all I have. Thanks for coming on the show. Yeah. This is a lot of fun. Yeah. I feel like I'm probably like I'm the person that people often talk about of like the wife that has to, that has to give permission. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for being that character.

No, you're not caricature. We're working together to figure out when I can go. Speaking of which, let's go ahead. Let's hammer this out. Can we do this live? Let's do it right now. What are we doing? I want to hunt next. Okay. I assume. Let's talk about it. All right. We haven't talked about it yet. Okay. Do people wanna hear this?

Yeah, I think they do. We've got, yeah, we've got time. So listen. Okay, listen. I obviously want to go back to the Midwest. Okay. 100% you can. Oh, more than 100%. But yes, I also want to go back, so I can't go to Iowa yet. I did not apply for Kansas. I do not want to go to Ill Wisconsin. Wisconsin, [00:52:00] it is. Even though you have some other potential states you really wanna hunt in.

As long as I'm limited

until I'm happy to

prepare. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah. So you're going to Wisconsin? I do. I wanna do South Dakota. I wanna do a home, I wanna do Nebraska. I've got all kinds of other states that are Kentucky's one of them I do wanna hunt. Illinois is enough. I've got a lot of places that I, sure. But Wisconsin is the one I know enough of the.

And it's over the counter, so I can't miss

Halloween again. No. That we thought that was gonna be fine, but that did not go well for anyone. Our kids were [00:53:00] not fine with that. No. And I thought they would be, but they were not. Okay. That daddy would miss Halloween. No, I can, I've had kids, I've had them has asked since then.

And that honestly is on me. Because you were like, I can't miss Halloween. I'm like, it is fine. My family's coming over. This is the first year we get to do Halloween with my family, cuz we're closer to them. It's gonna be fine. Just go. And then, Halloween was just like, it was constant.

I can't believe daddy's not here. I misread this situation. Yeah. All right. But I would like to leave that that, yeah. So get back from trick or treat, you're outta here. You also don't mind driving through the night. No, I drive through the night for these trips. Last year I drove through the night, got there and like I, I got out of my truck and [00:54:00] walked.

So that's probably not gonna happen this year. So we'll call it November for. That work for you? Yep. Through, you were gone for 10 days last year or 1215? Man, I'm a really generous wife. I'm a rockstar wife. I left October 31st. No. Was that the, yeah, I think you left on the 30th. I think I left on the 30th and then I was, I had to be home on the

fourth. So first coming back when I killed a deer. Okay. So I think 12 days is plenty, but [00:55:00] I'd like it to be less. Especially if you're wanting to hunt any other place, like you've been saying, you would wanna hunt Georgia too and probably Alabama. And so we need to take that into consideration just as far as what our schedule allows.

Like I do work full-time and podcast books,

I'm just saying I have to go into the office and, or, different places and do the work that I'm paid to do. So I get paid not what I'm saying. Oh my goodness. Thank you for helping me bring this show to you or a and thank you to Hunt Worth and thank you to OnX. I don't get paid anyway.

But I'm saying as far as our schedules Yeah. And what's reasonable and me, still being able to meet my obligations. What if we [00:56:00] do this? What if we do,

that's more days. But the understanding that if, because Alabama and Georgia are both with the understanding that if I do, if I need to take anywhere close to this, like if I get past the 10 day mark or

together, that sounds reasonable. And then, one of the things that we've already talked about off air is hey we actually have not gotten a lot of time together this year, like at all between now and then between now and November. We are, we needed to spend some time together, like enjoying something.

So I think we have already discussed that. We have a little weekend getaway coming up, so maybe another yeah. Hey I'm satisfied with one.[00:57:00]

Yep. Yeah.

Possibly

that is not true. Not true. Yes. Yes. So the plan is probably to utilize some PTO and soak up some time with the kids, for sure. All right. That's all for this week's house. All righty. Good luck hunting. That's all for this week's episode. As always, thank you so much for tuning in. If you dig this show, be sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever it is that you get your podcast.

If you could leave us a five star review, I would very much appreciate that. While you're at it, you can follow along with my outdoor adventures on Instagram at How to Hunt deer. That's also the best way to get ahold of me. Suggest topics that you want to hear, guests you want to hear from, or questions that you'd like me to explore on the show.

Big thanks to our partners tactic, cam Hunt Worth and OnX, please go support the brands that support [00:58:00] this show and help me bring you great content each and every week. If you're looking for more outdoor content, check out the sportsman's empire.com where you're gonna find my other podcast, the Wisconsin Sportsman, as well as a ton of other awesome outdoor podcasts.

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