New Products From The ATA Show

In this episode of the Hunting Gear Podcast, host Dan Johnson and guest Cameron Stover discuss their recent hunting experiences, particularly focusing on a successful deer hunt in Ohio. They delve into the challenges of tracking wounded deer and the emotional journey of hunting. The conversation then shifts to the ATA show, where Cameron shares his observations about the current state of hunting gear innovation, the lack of groundbreaking new products, and the evolution of existing products. They explore the trends in the hunting gear market, including the rise of mobile hunting gear and the importance of comfort and convenience in hunting accessories. In this conversation, Camron Stover and Dan Johnson discuss various innovations in hunting gear, focusing on new products showcased at a recent trade show. They explore advancements in pole saws, waterproof clothing, mobile hunting systems, and unique 3D targets. The discussion highlights the importance of marketing in the hunting industry and the challenges faced by smaller brands in gaining visibility. The conversation also touches on the practicality and effectiveness of new products, emphasizing the need for thorough testing and user feedback. In this conversation, Dan Johnson and Camron Stover discuss various innovations in hunting gear, the challenges of censorship in social media platforms for hunters, and the potential of new technologies like e-bikes and apps tailored for the hunting community. They also delve into the evolution of archery equipment, highlighting the advancements in bow technology and the importance of user comfort and performance.

Takeaways:

• Cameron successfully tracked and harvested a deer after a challenging two-month pursuit.
• The emotional weight of hunting is significant, especially after wounding a deer.
• The ATA show showcased a lack of innovative products this year.
• Many hunting products have reached a plateau in terms of innovation.
• Consistency in gear is crucial for hunters, especially with bows and broadheads.
• The market is saturated with similar products, making it hard to find truly innovative gear.
• Comfort and convenience are becoming more important in hunting gear design.
• Mobile hunting gear is on the rise, with companies like Arsenal leading the way.
• Tethered is gaining traction in the mobile hunting market with innovative products.
• Hunters often feel pressured to buy the latest and most expensive gear due to FOMO. Innovation often comes from smaller brands that lack marketing power.
• Many products are rebranded versions of older technologies.
• Waterproof clothing needs to be both functional and quiet for hunting.
• Mobile hunting systems are evolving to be more user-friendly.
• 3D targets can add fun to practice but may lack durability.
• Quality and price are often correlated in hunting gear.
• Testing products firsthand is crucial for understanding their effectiveness.
• Unique designs can enhance the hunting experience.
• Smaller companies can compete with larger brands through innovation.
• Consumer feedback is essential for product improvement. The direct-to-consumer market is not always cheaper.
• Censorship on social media affects the hunting community.
• E-bikes are becoming essential tools for hunters.
• New apps are needed for the hunting community.
• Innovations in archery equipment are improving user experience.
• Comfort in gear is crucial for performance.
• The hunting community needs a dedicated social media platform.
• Censorship may not deter hunters from sharing their experiences.
• Bow technology has evolved significantly in recent years.
• The market for hunting gear continues to grow despite challenges.

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Dan Johnson (00:00.686)
All right, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the hunting gear podcast. I am your host, Dan Johnson, and we have a familiar guest back on the show. Mr. Cameron Stover. Cameron, dude, what's up?

Camron Stover (00:13.73)
Hey buddy, it's good to talk to you, it's been a while.

Dan Johnson (00:16.046)
Yeah, you slay any giants this year?

Camron Stover (00:18.414)
did, so I had a target buck in mind going into the hunting season. He showed up a little bit during velvet. Come October, first cold front, he was on his feet. Broadside, 20 yards and I didn't make a good shot. He ducked a arrow, I hit him high and I spent the next two months trying to capitalize on him again.

Camron Stover (00:40.876)
It worked out. I know we're close.

Dan Johnson (00:41.06)
Whoo! Look at that brow tine, holy shit.

Camron Stover (00:46.786)
Yeah. So that's Ohio. Yep. Yep. I came off my farm in Ohio. Biggest deer we've killed on that farm so far. It took me two months almost to the day to see him again on foot, but it worked out, man. It was one of those hunts where you felt like it was down to the wire and you got a late muzzle loader season coming up. And I thought it's either now or never. And he came back in 20 yards and that was all she wrote that time.

Dan Johnson (00:48.204)
And is that a Virginia buck? Ohio. Okay. Ohio. Yup. dude. That's awesome.

Dan Johnson (01:16.975)
That's crazy, man. So let me ask you, this is always, this is where I get, become intrigued is after you shot him and did not kill him, what did he do? Did he just ghost or was he around but nocturnal? Like what's the deal?

Camron Stover (01:33.602)
So I spent about three days looking for him. So I put a lot of pressure in the area because honestly with the with the shot placement I thought if I got enough into their into those lungs, he's okay turn to find out he wasn't Never found really any good sign But on the seventh day, he showed back up at night on one of my cameras on my food plot He did not daylight Probably more than five times between in the two-month time frame in which I shot him and I killed him

There was two times that I knew that I could have killed him had I been in the stand or the blind because he was coming through at the right time. But the truth of the matter is it was just a really hard deer to kill. that was kind of the goal for the rest of season. If you've ever wounded one that early in the season, you feel like you're just got to devote the rest of that hunting season to trying to kill that deer. And it paid off. A lot of times it doesn't, but luckily for me.

Dan Johnson (02:27.491)
Yeah. Yeah.

Camron Stover (02:33.472)
All the crops got cut nearby and I had the food.

Dan Johnson (02:37.539)
Yeah. Well, and so what was the date that you killed this buck on?

Camron Stover (02:43.378)
I had to scroll back mid-December. Yep. yeah, yeah, so from the injury and the rut, he was really wound down. He still rutted, still was bumping, chasing does and stuff like that, but man, he just steered clear of my property during daylight for almost two months. This was a deer that in velvet, he was around and he was running with another buck at one time.

Dan Johnson (02:47.009)
Okay, so it was was post-rut. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (03:04.367)
Yeah.

Camron Stover (03:10.734)
I had a couple decent shooters come through the property throughout the year, but he was the only one that I was really like heart set on trying to capitalize on. But I'll give you a date exactly. I could, December 12th. Yep.

Dan Johnson (03:18.287)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (03:23.917)
It's all good. just wanted to know, 12th, okay, so post-rot, leading like back end of the bell curve. That must have felt really dang good. Popping him when you did.

Camron Stover (03:34.254)
And I've killed a lot of deer and like this is an eight point of this caliber doesn't come around too often but the relief of being like I did my job like even though this deer was a hundred percent fine he was not hurt and No lingering injured injuries like you couldn't even tell that he'd been shot when we skin him out and stuff But the truth of the matter is like you just have that That gut feeling like you got to finish the job and it felt really good

Dan Johnson (03:58.372)
Yeah. Yeah, I've never really been able to do that. Like I've I've shot a deer, but I've never really been able to go back out and attack him. Like two years ago, I probably could have. But the farm that I hunting was three hours away and I had already done an out of state hunting trip. My all my bridges were burned and things like that. And I wish I could have gone back and chased him down because I got nocturnal pictures of him and I knew that.

once the rut was over, he was gonna get back into this same bed to food pattern, but I never had the opportunity to actually go and commit more hunting time to that buck. What sucks.

Camron Stover (04:38.188)
Yeah, yeah, I kind of have to agree that this is the same situation. Like I've wounded a deer before, like there's no doubt about that, but this one is the first one that was on my home farm and I could set back, reduce the pressure on it and wait rather than going in and hunting just to hunt. And that's what I did. I've let him feel safe again. It took two months, but there we are.

Dan Johnson (05:00.185)
Yeah. Yeah. All right.

I'm glad you got them dude. It must have been a great feeling. all right. Hunting Gear Podcast, let's say thank you to our sponsors real quick. Code Blue Sense, if you're looking for real or synthetic deer urines, if you are looking for probably one of my favorite mock scrape kits that are available out there, the Rope-A-Dope Mock Scrape Kit, go check that out. It's available now in a two pack, which is more convenient and efficient.

Camron Stover (05:06.574)
Thanks buddy. yeah.

Dan Johnson (05:31.064)
Outside of that they have scent elimination like sprays, body washes, detergents, all that stuff. Go to codebluesense.com, discount code NFC20. Next is Reveal Trail Cameras. They have the new 3.0 versions of those trail cameras out and ready to go. Here's the cool thing I really like about these cameras. And Cameron, do you remember your first cell cam?

How hard it was to set up how hard it was to set up? Yeah, just you had to go. Thanks. I believe the first cellular trail camera I ever tried to use. I had to go to a cell, a cellular store by the SIM card, set up the plan, then enter a whole bunch of numbers in to that, then relate that back to some website somewhere. And it took it would take like hours to set up one trail camera.

Camron Stover (05:58.121)
Yes I do. Yeah. Yep.

Camron Stover (06:11.95)
Yep.

Camron Stover (06:26.328)
Well, yeah, so I had a certain brand and Verizon was the activated carrier, but not only one store in the area was able to do it. So you would bounce from store to store trying to figure out who understood what a cellular trail camera was at the time. But man, those reveals, you literally just scan a QR code. As long as you got the app downloaded, it's quick, easy. I can upload those cameras to my mobile app three or four at a time on the way to the stand or to place them out, can't beat it.

Dan Johnson (06:37.561)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (06:52.43)
whatever yeah no it's so quick man and hey I'm glad I'm glad you said it now I don't have to so go to go to tacticam.com slash cameras and check out the 3.0 versions of the the reveal so I like those cameras guys outside of that we're done go check out my my company full sneak gear comm now Cameron for those of you

Camron Stover (06:58.848)
Exactly.

Dan Johnson (07:19.439)
You who have listened to this podcast before was a contributor for a while for the the hunting gear podcast through his company hunting gear deals calm and And today we're gonna talk a little bit about the ATA show I have him on here every year to talk about that show because I've since stopped going to it I probably need to start going a little bit more but every time I talk to you you you make it seem like

It's not that fun as much as fun as used to be. So I'm just gonna kind of pass the mic to you here real quick. And I just wanna say like, what was fun and exciting about the ATA show if anything this year? From a product standpoint.

Camron Stover (08:04.888)
So a little background story. I had no intention on going to the ATA show this year. We were in the process of moving my in-laws and just didn't have the time with the baby at home and stuff. So I was like, it's off the radar. Well, my wife wakes up the first day of the ATA show and she's like, hey, I'm not gonna go to work today if you want to go to that show that you were talking about. And I'm like, it's not how this works. Like it's a four or five hour drive. So 5 a.m. I woke up, showered, hit the road.

started making calls like hey how can i get in i got in and everything worked out so my first thing have a no game plan no communications prior to i want to go to the innovation zone i want to see what's new i the innovation zone and the new product showcase and i was very disappointed

Dan Johnson (08:53.391)
Okay. Now.

Oftentimes, here we have kind of like a two-way street here, the innovation zone. It's great when there is, in the new product zone, it's great when there is a new product to get excited about. But do you think that we are in a time of, a product standpoint, where we've hit some really good products and we don't necessarily need to change any of these products to make them worthwhile and get people excited about?

Camron Stover (09:26.83)
And you're exactly right, like nail on the head. We're at a point in time where technology is kind of equaled what supply and demand wants to be. There's not a lot of need for innovation. I don't believe that you need a new bow every year because the technology on that bow is just like the previous three or four years. Broadheads, like I didn't see anything in the broadhead market that was like, that's what I want to switch to because I've already found a broadhead that works for my setup.

Dan Johnson (09:35.887)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (09:51.854)
Right.

Camron Stover (09:54.818)
time and time again in years past. There's a couple little things here and there that you see that is going to improve the quality of your hunting experience. And that's the one thing that I look at at the end of the season. I take reference of all the gear that I used, what I broke, what I lost, and what I want to improve. And that's my goals going into the ATA show. What is here that's going to enhance my hunting experience?

Dan Johnson (10:20.719)
Yeah. Yeah.

Camron Stover (10:22.822)
I mean, we're at a point in time right now to where I don't want to call it a stalemate. I just feel like innovation has caught up to where we are right now in a hunting culture.

Dan Johnson (10:31.12)
Right, yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I will say so For here's a perfect example. You mentioned broadheads. One of my favorite broadheads on the market is Wasp three blade jackhammer. Okay, I've used that exact blade that same exact head for Over ten years easily probably closer to 15. All right, I love it because I'm confident. I'm confident with it now and and

You talk to anybody at Wasp and they're like, we have a really good broadhead. We don't necessarily need to change the wheel on our product line. It's really good. People come and buy it. It may not be the hippest, slickest brand on the market, but our products work. They're made in America and the metal or the material and the design are really well, right? So recently,

I think this year they introduced something called a CBW, which just stands for cut both ways. And so they've taken an old, older, I think it's the sharpshooter broadhead, it's a fixed blade. And then the back part of the blades now have cutting surface on it. And that's it. I wouldn't call that necessarily innovative, but it's something new that they've tried to do to really kind of step up their game for

And I don't want to say be stagnant for all those years because that's not what it is, but it's just a little something something that's going to change about some of their broadheads, which is what it is. Right.

Camron Stover (12:07.234)
Yeah, so with archery especially and a gun shooter, what's the one thing you have to have in its consistency? A lot of guys like, I used to shoot my bow every day for six, seven months before hunting season. I loved it. I don't have that kind of time anymore. I want to be able to pick up my gear that I'm shooting this year and I need to go buy arrows. I need to go buy broadheads. I want to go be able to find those on the shelf. So I know I have the same amount of confidence going into this season as I did last year. Those jackhammers you talked about.

I can remember my buddy Kevin having jackhammers in his bow shop at the age of like 18. You're talking almost 20 years ago. And those jackhammers, they've changed a little bit, but at end of the day, man, I can remember him telling me like, hey, when you get your poundage up, like these are a great broadhead to shoot. I wasn't there yet, but at the same time, like it's still usable today. And like, I don't chase that innovation and the new product launches too much anymore.

Dan Johnson (12:58.387)
yeah.

Dan Johnson (13:03.629)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you walk in and you're disappointed. What did you see at the innovation zone or the new product zone that was there, even though maybe it didn't excite you.

Camron Stover (13:17.996)
Yeah, so the quick step, I walked over to the Innovation Zone, and you're talking like six or eight people there in that Innovation Zone. Some familiar faces of products that guys have their hopes and dreams on bringing to market, and it just hasn't caught on yet. And then a seed company here or there, there wasn't anything in that Innovation Zone that caught my attention. I can remember walking through the Innovation Zone in years past, and the same guys you were talking to now have a 20-foot booth now, and they've got a

huge nice business that they're operating because it started out of that innovation zone. I didn't see anything there that I thought like, hey, this is where I want to be at in the long term.

Dan Johnson (13:59.748)
Yeah, and I can remember for a while it seemed to me like it was the climbing stick game that was really popular. Especially once you got into the carbon game or the but now it seems like almost every climbing stick saddle or tree stand company has a carbon offer now. Maybe not in the tree stand side of things, but definitely in the platform side of things in the climbing stick side of things for the saddle guy. It just seems like now.

Carbon has was hot. It's it's an offering now and then there really hasn't been a next step in The lightweight game because I mean really how light can you go?

Camron Stover (14:42.67)
Yeah, I mean, think you're nailing ahead. Timber Ninja was one of those companies that you would find in the innovation zone at one time and then now look at them. I mean, they make some of the best products in that mobile hunting space. And there's a lot of other companies that do that. But at same time, how much lighter do we need? Like, are we talking ounces here between magnet and carbon and aluminum? At the end of the day, like I'm carrying around that extra weight right here.

Dan Johnson (15:01.476)
Mm-hmm.

Camron Stover (15:10.752)
I can stand to put an extra pound in my pack.

Dan Johnson (15:13.443)
Yeah, yeah. So as you're going through these these two areas, did you feel like it was?

Were there products more dedicated to the actual product, like what we just talked about? Climbing sticks, tree stands, the actual product that you need to go hunting? Or was it more about making the hunter comfortable, like a different kind of sock or maybe a little body heater or adhesive things that cool you down or anything like that? was it truly just like...

I've seen all these things before. Why are they new or innovative?

Camron Stover (15:57.198)
Yeah, I'm gonna have to say like a lot of this was like, this is the next version of what we made last year. We made the wheel a little bigger, the pins are a little brighter. Just things of that nature. The targets, here's a new species, or we changed the ring systems on it. Things of that nature. There wasn't much that you walk through there and you're like, wow, that's really impressive. And I would imagine that in order to be in that product showcase, you gotta pay a little extra money.

Dan Johnson (16:04.515)
Yeah.

Camron Stover (16:25.592)
But I found products out in the show that I really liked, but they weren't really featured in that product launches and product showcase situation.

Dan Johnson (16:32.855)
Yeah. So it's almost like it's just an additional skew that they brought to market of a different product. And I'll use, I'll use site specifically. One thing that I saw is like, Hey, because you guys asked, now we have the same site as last year, just with a smaller pinhead type of deal. Yeah.

Camron Stover (16:50.36)
Yeah, exactly. Or the wheel's a little different, or now it fits on the Bridge Lock system and things like that. But at the end of the day, where do you need to advance to with the sights that you have now? Some of them are seven, 800 bucks. I don't wanna put any more money into my bow already.

Dan Johnson (17:04.173)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (17:09.997)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you got money to spend, guess, go for it. And obviously, if a company smart, they're doing a little bit of research and they're saying, well, you know, our clients are asking for it. And if they're asking for it, we might as well try to build it. I mean, what's that? What's that that site now? Is it locked in or what's that site that's like it's really expensive now? It's a wheel.

Camron Stover (17:37.016)
Yeah, I can picture them. got a little open wheel on the side. Looks like, I can't think of it right off, but that's a big investment. You can buy both for what you have in accessories.

Dan Johnson (17:40.513)
Yep. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (17:47.363)
Yeah, almost, almost, that's crazy. But they're popular, right? So hardcore dudes are buying them. Yep.

Camron Stover (17:51.821)
absolutely.

Yep, and the truth of the matter is, just like I get caught up in some of the times the marketing side of it, and I'm like, if he tells me it's the best, it's gotta be the best, so let's go do it. And it happens. Yep. yeah. Yep.

Dan Johnson (18:04.719)
Some stranger you gotta have this product. It's a thousand dollars, but you gotta have it. All right, I'll buy it Okay outside of that like anything else other than like different skews or different versions of the old thing

Camron Stover (18:23.47)
So did see a little bit of differences Some of the products you walk by and you look at one time and you're like man That's that's not really what I'm here to see and then you think get back and you're like I could probably actually use that and couple of those products would be the the new tethered saw like I thought when I seen it I was like, they just have a saw just like everybody else went on by and then I was like, you can hook it onto a Tree branch. You don't have to carry a eight foot long pole saw anymore seems pretty cool

Dan Johnson (18:51.385)
Yeah. Yeah.

Camron Stover (18:53.302)
and you can cut your own tree branch, as long as you're probably not on public. But I thought it was pretty neat after the fact. One of the, and I think they won an award from ATA, another product that won an award that really caught me off guard and I just couldn't get past it was a wind detection accessory holder that goes on your bow. And that was like the third place award winner. It's, it's,

Dan Johnson (19:15.809)
a wind, a wind detection system that goes on your bow.

Camron Stover (19:22.382)
Yeah, just a little puffer. And it just has a little holder that fits, you could put it on your quiver, you can attach it to your bow, your limbs, or whatever. And it just makes it convenient to just go poof, poof, and puff a little bit of smoke out. I'm just thinking, like, this right here sums it up. Like, if that's a third place technology advancement winner or whatever, like, we've hit a peak.

Dan Johnson (19:47.833)
Yeah, we've hit a peak or a plateau for sure.

Camron Stover (19:50.158)
Yeah, best in show, third place. And not to knock that product, that's a cool little $10 product. Don't get me wrong, but the technology, you can probably make it on a 3D printer at home.

Dan Johnson (20:03.171)
Yeah, what were first and second at the innovation zone?

Camron Stover (20:06.456)
So first and second was the Expedition Archery X-Lite 32 bow. Second was a Stryver Gear Quick Release Bino harness. The bow, I didn't shoot. And not because I didn't want to shoot it, but when I looked at dealers in my area, I was more than an hour away from a local dealer. And I thought, I've been down this road with another brand before, and it's great, enjoyed the bow. But when it came time to having the bow serviced,

Dan Johnson (20:16.527)
Okay.

Camron Stover (20:35.278)
or any issues that might arise, I don't have anybody to help me. And I live in a populated area, they got first place, like they're doing something right. I know the technology behind it is there. It's a lightweight, nice, ergonomically designed bow that I would probably enjoy shooting, but I chose not to even test it because I know it's a product that I shouldn't buy if I can't have service. It's like buying a car.

If there's no garage that's going to work on this Range Rover or Volvo or whatever nearby, it doesn't do me any good when I break down or need an oil change.

Dan Johnson (21:09.795)
Yeah. What was the, did you check the price tag on that bow?

Camron Stover (21:13.39)
I did not, I could probably pick that up pretty quick. So that X-Lite's $18.99. Yeah. Yeah. And you look, that's where a lot of these carbon Maglite bows are going to be at in price range because you're pushing the envelope for the lightest materials possible, the best engineering designs they can bring to market. So it's a steep price tag.

Dan Johnson (21:22.009)
So it's just under two grand. Holy smokes.

Dan Johnson (21:29.796)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (21:42.18)
I don't know, man. Like it is it worth it? That's my question is, is with everything else that's out there, like, I mean, I've been shooting the same bow for four years now and I really like it this year. I'm only by are going to get a new bow. I'm only going to buy a new bow because it's, I feel it's damaged. Like I feel like my cams are broken and the riser might be bent not by anything they did, but because of what I did, what I do to it and what,

the my kids have done to it or or what they said they didn't do to it, but I think I know better anyway. I just it seems crazy to me that there's these obviously inflation is real all over every product in the world. But to start hitting this $2,000 mark when just five years ago, I feel like $700. Was the flagship bow for a lot of these brands. I mean, that's a huge jump.

Camron Stover (22:41.676)
Yeah, you're getting to the point to where it's almost not economical to go into those flagship bows anymore and wait. And if you buy one today and you try to resell it next year to buy next year's model, guess what? I'm probably gonna scoop that up at half price. And that's been traditionally like what most bows retail for versus what they're gonna resell for. But the truth of the matter is like, it's hard to justify saving two ounces.

and spending an extra $500 or more.

Dan Johnson (23:13.677)
Yeah. Like this, this is where I would love to talk to some of the marketing people within the bow companies. Like, how do you get people excited? Like obviously every, every brand has their fanboys. Right. And so anytime a new tethered product comes out, anytime a new bow manufacturer comes out, there's going to be a core group of guys that are like, I don't care what it is. I got to have it. Right. But is that core group big enough to make a

profit on that on those types of products. It must be right. It must be. And then the marketing that has the other marketing that goes into it to excite the demographic. Man, that just seems like it's it's just hard work.

Camron Stover (23:48.386)
Yeah, I mean at the end of the-

Camron Stover (24:00.578)
Yeah, at end of the day, mean, a lot of times we get in a situation as if I'm not buying the most expensive bow that this company makes and I'm selling myself short. So even though they raise their prices, like I know if I want to shoot and be the best, I've got to shoot the best. And if you're a, you wear Matthew's hat or a Hoyt hat or an Expedition hat or PSE hat, whatever the case may be, we get into that fear of missing out. call it FOMO.

Dan Johnson (24:26.639)
Right. FOMO, yep, FOMO.

Camron Stover (24:28.972)
Yeah, and you feel like if I don't have that bow that weighs 3.8 pounds versus 3.95, I don't have the best, and I'm not gonna be the best hunter that I can be.

Dan Johnson (24:39.779)
My wife has FOMO, by the way. She has it when her friends go do something and she can't go do it. She has fear of missing out.

Camron Stover (24:47.584)
I have that when I watch my buddies go hunting and I don't get to go.

Dan Johnson (24:50.096)
Fair fair enough fair enough and then the other thing is like Okay, what was cool about this? the second place the quick release vinyl harness

Camron Stover (25:05.998)
So I have a hard time with Bino harnesses and the prices they bring to market. Some of them 200 bucks or something. This one's like 170. But basically from the top it just has a quick release. I got it like a little hood that fits really well and protects those by it and then you can grab them, flip them out pretty quick. There's probably more to it with the snaps and the buckle systems and all that. It's not a product that I utilize.

I'm the type of guy, I just throw it around me like a woman throws a purse, I have my binos and I go and I beat them up and stuff like that or throw them in the backpack. I don't like things on my chest. I don't feel comfortable shooting a bow and stuff like that so I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it. But I'll kind of pull up a little bit of it as I ramble on a little bit.

Dan Johnson (25:38.222)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (25:57.731)
And what was the brand again?

Camron Stover (26:00.478)
It is.

Striver gear quick release harness and I know I've got that sitting here somewhere

because I was looking into it before. Yep, I don't see it.

Dan Johnson (26:14.105)
Quick readout.

Camron Stover (26:22.304)
Yeah, we'll circle back.

Dan Johnson (26:22.465)
Okay, cool. It's lighter weighted. It does something faster. Like, okay.

Camron Stover (26:26.924)
Yeah, I mean it just seems like it's more convenient to access those binos. There's no velcro or anything like that. It's like a magnetic system or something that covers your binos. I activated it. It looked nice. It looked like it was quick and easy to utilize. And it says it's the first of its kind, a quick release binos harness. You can attach pouches and accessories and things like that. It looks like it's well built. It doesn't look like it's overbuilt. It doesn't look like it's got a bunch of junk that weigh you down.

anything like that. But it's supposed to, does it help you reduce the movement and amount of work that it takes to get to your products or whether you're binos or rangefinder pouch or anything like that you add to it. And it's just a magnetic system. And I can't say that there's not a binos harness that has that technology on the market or not because I don't get into that market too well.

Dan Johnson (27:09.369)
Gotcha.

Dan Johnson (27:18.445)
Yeah, OK, I'm kind of seeing it looks like they have like a chess system and then they have a the pouch or pack the pouch that quick connects on to it can be easier easily released. There's a YouTube video. You can go to their website like Stryver Gear Dotcom and they have a video and you can watch it if you're interested in it. Outside of that.

As you started moving away from those two areas and you started to walk the, walk the showroom floor, was there any buzz about any, anything? Cause sometimes you hear about it. may not be in the new innovation zone. Any material, new, new uses of material, any new, anything exciting.

Camron Stover (28:08.216)
So there was really two booths that stayed busy basically all day. That was Arsenal and Tethered. And they bring a ton of people with them, so you kind of have that big group setting anyways. But Arsenal had a ton of accessories to get. They have some really cool saddle platforms and things like that as well. But their backpacks, man they just had so many different options for backpacks.

Camron Stover (28:37.196)
And they look like they're really well made. I was thoroughly impressed with the innovation they brought to the backpack market. Custom fit for their products on the Mobile Hunter. That's one of the things that I have right now is a weakness is my pack set up for my mobile gear. So that was one of the things that I was personally looking for. And they had a few options that I thought would fit my hunting style, not be too much.

but also not allow me to not prevent me from bringing into the woods what I needed.

Dan Johnson (29:09.615)
Right. And so Arsenal put just just a is it are they just the backpack company then?

Camron Stover (29:18.804)
no, they've got saddles, they've got platforms and sticks, and they've got the climbing stick-ators. They're basically a mobile hunting brand that is doing a little bit of everything. They've even got the carbon sticks. But when you see their platforms, they're like razor thin, and that's kinda what they're known for. They look like they could be used as a weapon in battle even. It's pretty cool what they're...

branding looks like and it just kind of translates through their product line. But for me it was the backpacks that they had showcased that was really the most impressive for this season this year.

Dan Johnson (29:58.234)
Gotcha, gotcha. That Max double step climbing stick ater does look pretty interesting.

Camron Stover (30:09.688)
Yep, they had it, it's pretty stable looking. And it might clank around a little bit when you're setting it up as far as making a little bit of noise if it hits, but so do my climbing sticks if I'm not careful with them as well. But pretty nice little setup. Looks like they're coming on strong in that mobile hunting market. And two years ago, I don't remember hearing about them.

Dan Johnson (30:34.564)
No, I don't either. like, obviously I'm looking at their website for the first time. And obviously I haven't been to a lot of shows in a while either. So there is, I do need to get back into this, into this just a little bit more so I stay up to date. We're coughing machines today. Holy shit. Let's see here. Now tethered, that's interesting because I feel like, I don't know.

Camron Stover (30:52.716)
Yeah, man.

Dan Johnson (31:01.281)
I can remember a long time ago when I started going to ATA shows and when I started going to consumer shows, there was a product out there that you could connect a pole saw to a branch to make a saw to a branch to make it a pole saw. How does it connect to the stick?

Camron Stover (31:21.76)
It's almost like a snap ring and they kind of crank out. So imagine taking a stick through two eyes and then bending them to where they lock in place. It seemed pretty sturdy and stable. It didn't have anything else other than it just like a locking mechanism and they kind of turned to the outside of the saw. Pretty neat. I figured you might know a little bit more about pole saws and that kind of stuff than I would.

Dan Johnson (31:49.71)
Yeah, I just remember going to, you know, when I was working for Wicked Tree Gear, they had different types. So I wonder if this was a I need to talk to those guys and get them on here because I'm curious if they just bought a company and absorbed it or they bought the technology and they're leasing the technology or something like that, because I felt like that kind of that kind of product has been out there for a while. But with that said, I don't know.

I don't know if it's new innovation from them or if it's something they acquired.

Camron Stover (32:26.246)
And that happens a lot, think, in not only our industry, but a lot of industries is you'll see something come to market and then 10 years later, a few years later, somebody else with a bigger brand or a better marketing push will say like, hey, this is our new product. And then you're like, my gosh, they invented the wheel. Like, this is the greatest thing ever. And you're like, I've been using this same thing from a different brand for like 10 years. Like where you guys been?

Dan Johnson (32:50.372)
Yeah. And fi because let's be honest, a lot of that happens, not just in the hunting space, but in, in the world, the company that comes out with it has a great idea, but they don't know how to, to market it, or they don't have the money to market it. You know, a company like tethered, they're, they're probably number one in their, in the space right now for, yeah. I mean, they're huge and now they are sitting here.

Camron Stover (33:13.44)
absolutely. Yep.

Dan Johnson (33:18.425)
They're able to go, you know, we do have the marketing budget for this. you know, basically guys can't sell it. They give up and it's just another accessory to them that they can add to the shop. But what's special about it is I can't, go ahead. No, go ahead.

Camron Stover (33:31.918)
So you're talking about, go ahead. So talking about like innovation and all these things. So the guy that owns Fire Knock, and you think of Fire Knock, think of Lighted Knocks, he told me how many patents he had one day. And he's a foreign descent, so it's harder for me to understand when he's talking, because he gets really excited about what he can do, because he's highly, highly intelligent. And he runs basically a one-man show from, he's basically his own lawyer, his own innovation, marketing guy, like he does everything.

And the amount of patents he has in our industry and the technology that he can bring to improve even a crossbow and things like this, like it just blew my mind. And I wish that he would have, like you could showcase him a little better and have like a good translator because he's such a wealth of knowledge more so than anybody I've ever had a one-on-one discussion with in the hunting industry. It blew my mind. And some of his technologies.

way ahead of the curve, but it has no marketing push. It doesn't have the big wheel behind him of the branding and things like that. And if it did, he'd be hard to guard. He's on it when it comes to technology and advancements.

Dan Johnson (34:45.412)
Yeah, yeah, that's cool. I'm watching a little video right now of that that saw. I mean just from the looks of it. It looks badass. It looks like a badass saw. Did you were you able to put your hands on it at all?

Camron Stover (34:59.042)
Yeah, so at first I was like, look, Tether's got a saw. And then I just moved on. Then I came back and I was like, okay, that looks a little different when it's on the tree branch. So I went back and I was like, okay, it's a well-built saw that locks in really sturdy. Would I use it? Probably. Am I gonna buy it? It's not on my to-do list. But I can see exactly why you would want it.

Dan Johnson (35:24.269)
Yeah, I will say I will say this that the what they're playing with right now on this video and I'm watching the guy put the stick in it right now and then it kind of he's pulling it down and then it's locking in. OK, I see it. That's way more sturdy than the product that I used back in the day. And so back in the yeah, back in the day,

Camron Stover (35:51.042)
Yeah, it's rock solid.

Dan Johnson (35:54.52)
Yeah, that is rock solid. Back in the day, I was looking, I think it was just like rubber straps that kept it together. You know what I mean? Like rubber straps and then they would get loose and then you would get pissed and you'd throw your saw. This is not like that at all. This is, this is right. Yeah, you're right. Rock solid. That's crazy, man. I wish I had one of those. Yeah.

Camron Stover (36:05.868)
Yeah, yeah.

Camron Stover (36:18.83)
And it's such a simple looking design too. it's one of those things like, and you do it every year. You walk by a booth, you're like, dang it, why didn't I think?

Dan Johnson (36:27.751)
Yeah, that's pretty badass and it connects to your saddle as well. And so as you climb a tree, can, Yep. Cool. Cool. All right. So those are some cool products. Outside of that, what else?

Camron Stover (36:31.458)
Yeah, yeah, I mean you can connect anything to the saddle. Saddle with a little hook.

Camron Stover (36:44.302)
So one of the things that caught my attention and I don't know if I would buy because I let's face it there's a ton of clothing brands on the market right now but Rivers West had a display for their waterproof camo. Soft outer shell, waterproof membrane inside. Wasn't real loud to the touch and what I liked about it is when I would press a lot of times when garment gets saturated and you put pressure on it

Dan Johnson (36:59.312)
Mm-hmm.

Camron Stover (37:12.096)
It forces that water through that membrane and you get wet on the inside. That's how most... So when I tested that, it didn't get wet. Now, maybe it was a showpiece, but they had it running the whole show with this water going over it. Every time I went by it, I tested it and it was exactly the way they said it was. A silent or quieter waterproof garment that was lived up to the hype. So I would be interested.

Dan Johnson (37:15.343)
100 percent.

Dan Johnson (37:38.093)
And what was that again? River's Edge.

Camron Stover (37:41.366)
Rivers West. Yeah, Rivers West, rain gear.

Dan Johnson (37:46.339)
ring here. Okay, I'm pulling it up right now. Rivers West, shop now, pretty cool website.

Okay, okay, I'm looking at it. Original waterproof fleece. So it's, it is, it's like a, are they treating it like it's breathable still? Like a breathable piece? Or is this actually rain gear?

Camron Stover (38:12.046)
He was honest

No, he said it's not that breathable. It's just quieter than what most of the competitors are in this space. And that was kind of the selling point. Waterproof, actually proof, and quieter.

Dan Johnson (38:18.744)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (38:31.033)
Gotcha. All right. And that's what that's what this that's what you need in your rain gear. I mean, almost all rain gear that I've ever used is louder, especially I don't know about you, but have you ever tried to wear a rain jacket and draw back on a deer? It like it could be quiet, but it's still loud to me. They may not hear it, but it's still loud to me. So.

Camron Stover (38:36.449)
Exactly.

Camron Stover (38:53.086)
absolutely. Yeah, you just hope that it's raining during the time you got to draw back so you have a little bit of less friction and something to cover up the noise.

Dan Johnson (38:59.832)
and not quiet. Absolutely. So that that seemed that seemed like a pretty cool product. What was did you do any diving into what was different about it?

Camron Stover (39:10.35)
For me as far as the technology stuff like that like we didn't dive deep into it when I put my hand back in or impressed on it that was enough for me to circle back I don't think that the technology was As far as being in depth that individual was prepared to have those in-depth conversations that an engineer would have That was there to showcase it, but they have this the setup. That was really nice But it was almost like two garments in one

Dan Johnson (39:37.953)
It's sit. Gotcha.

Camron Stover (39:40.332)
Like it was definitely two different membranes and the waterproof membrane on the inside and that fleece on the outside that was still waterproof and it wasn't thick enough to where it would absorb water and hold it on the exterior. Now granted, there might be a lot of other options out there on the market that are just as good, but they did a really good job marketing it and showcasing that at the show to make it really simple and easy for me to walk by and be like, that's different, let's look at this.

Dan Johnson (40:07.203)
Yeah, yeah. So I'm on their website right now and it says 100 % waterproof. And then it says we spent two years and $2 million developing our award-winning original waterproof fleece and later 16 months on our advanced waterproof fleece. Original waterproof fleece and 16 months on our advanced waterproof fleece.

to provide people with comprehensive waterproof garments, quiet as well. So, I don't know, if you're looking for a rain gear for an upcoming western, like a big western hunt, or just if you live in the south and it rains a lot, you might want to, and I haven't even pulled my hunting gear out, or my rain gear out in the Midwest for what seems like years now. And so, I would, this might be something to look into if you're a hardcore guy.

Camron Stover (41:01.499)
And the prices, from looking around and stuff, the prices are not bad.

Dan Johnson (41:05.751)
No, doesn't look like it at all.

Camron Stover (41:07.682)
I you're talking 100 bucks, 120 bucks for a jacket. Yeah, you can't touch that in the higher end markets for rain gear.

Dan Johnson (41:15.311)
Right, Cool, man. And so usually what happens is when something becomes popular, then they raise the price, not because of the technology, but because they're popular. And that's it. Yeah.

Camron Stover (41:17.112)
you

Camron Stover (41:27.51)
absolutely. Or somebody comes in, scoops them up, and like, okay, we're going to double the price overnight because we own it.

Dan Johnson (41:33.975)
Yep, exactly. Absolutely. What else? What else we got from the ATA show that sparked your interest?

Camron Stover (41:40.632)
So we had Goat Gear on the show last year and one of the products that always stuck out to me with them was their Arctic Top and Bottoms and it was just a heavy fleece bass layer that just looked like something you would want to wear and stay warm. So I actually got to touch that and I was really impressed. They've got a great lineup. I really like what he's doing and starting that kind of, it's called Goat Gear. Yep.

Dan Johnson (42:01.293)
Arctic, what's the company name? I'm gonna look it up. Goat Gear, that's right.

Camron Stover (42:05.866)
So he is, Brett is basically the one man band behind a clothing brand and it's been fun to kind of watch him grow this from start to finish and the testing process and it's kind of that like underdog story that you want to cheer for and root for. And clothing wise, like he offered everything that you would kind of want he's got or he's in the process of kind of bringing to market.

Dan Johnson (42:16.31)
Okay.

Camron Stover (42:32.812)
He's got his own camo pattern, so it's pretty cool to just watch like a one-band band compete in this big market. But those Arctic bottoms and tops, I really want that.

Dan Johnson (42:43.587)
Yeah. Do they, they look, they don't, they not only look like they would really

be warm, I guess you would say, but they also look like they would be very comfortable next to skin.

Camron Stover (43:00.321)
gosh yeah.

Dan Johnson (43:01.987)
Were you able to try on any of this stuff?

Camron Stover (43:04.686)
No, what they were to try it on but like you could get your arm underneath it and feel like what it felt like next to skin and stuff and it was definitely a product that Who knows maybe be too warm for me to hunt in most scenarios? But it looks like it would be super warm and layer that under a good With a good bass layer and and as you said as a mid layer even like it looked like it was great

Dan Johnson (43:26.905)
Yeah, insulation layer. Yeah, I can see something like this being used if you keep it dry out west, like when you're glassing, pop that on over top of your base layer and then put, you know, use it as insulation layer. Not necessarily like a down insulation layer, but, you know, I see this being also being a base layer for really cold, like underneath bibs for really cold.

late season hunts.

Camron Stover (43:58.156)
Yeah, I agree. So it was nice to see a product that you admired online and get to see it firsthand for the first time. But as far as new things like targets, so that was one of the big things at the show this year was this just tons of 3D targets, which you're used to and stuff. But there was this company called Wildcrete 3D or Wildcrete Targets and it's C-R-E-T-E at the end. But basically they have this

crazy 3d design targets like from african game animals to like Almost mothman looking fantasy style werewolves and stuff like that Like it just had so many options now the problem is they don't have replaceable core Cores like a reinhardt and stuff like that. So it's more like a one-time purchase rather than an investment The foam didn't quite feel as good and things of that nature, but it was for if you had a backyard range

It would have been pretty cool to be like, you want to go shoot this wild, crazy looking creature? Something like that. And they had way more options than what I ever expected to see. Dinosaurs and, yeah.

Dan Johnson (45:07.235)
Yeah, I'm on their website right now. This is crazy. looks, mean, the realism of these targets looks pretty good.

Camron Stover (45:17.516)
Yeah, I mean they've got a werewolf, they've got a little T-Rex looking thing, then you've got regular ward halls and cape buffalo, like huge stuff. A giant tick. Like who wouldn't want to kill a giant tick? Like I get that. Yeah, shit, you and me both, buddy.

Dan Johnson (45:24.633)
Kate Buffalo, yeah. That's nuts, I hate tics, dude. A goblin pirate?

Camron Stover (45:36.47)
Yeah, so it's just like, and some of these are like the printing on them looks like they're 3D, but like you don't have anything special other than it's a big chunk of foam, it's well painted, and a dot system or target system to shoot at. The Tortoise.

Dan Johnson (45:50.728)
and the Cape buff, I'm sorry, the Cape Buffalo has balls. Like I've never seen a white, I've never seen a white tail target have balls on it. This Cape Buffalo has testicles on it. That's, that's as real as it gets folks.

Camron Stover (45:57.292)
Yeah

Camron Stover (46:10.306)
Yeah, I mean how many bonus points do you get on a backyard range if you're like hey, I'm calling it guys How many points do I get for shooting this thing in the nuts? but

Dan Johnson (46:12.557)
You

Dan Johnson (46:18.351)
Exactly. mean, that's what would happen. All right. There'd be wagers. I'd be like, all right, you hit this. give you, hit the, you hit the balls. You'd get five bucks.

Camron Stover (46:28.258)
Yeah, every bit like so I thought that that company was pretty cool and they had so many options I can't say if I'm spending that kind of money that I'm not going to invest into Reinhardt targets just because that's what I've used the replacement vinyls the foam so easy to pull and I can't tell you how easy these are are to pull or anything like that because I didn't get a chance to shoot them but it's nice to see a new 3d target company come to market

Dan Johnson (46:41.305)
All right. Yep.

Camron Stover (46:56.076)
And they've been around a while, but they're just haven't been a big player in our space as what they could have been. So it was pretty neat. That was pretty cool. Now, speaking of Reinhardt, more of the competition series that we're all used to, they actually teamed up with Spiderweb, which makes the box kind of like a box target. And they have what they call the speed unlimited target. And it's mainly geared for crossbows. With this,

Dan Johnson (47:00.387)
Yep. Yep.

Camron Stover (47:26.222)
If you've got any of these new high-end 450, 500 feet per second crossbows, you can tear a regular target up pretty quick with one of these crossbows, because they've got wider bolts, like the bolts are a little bit thicker than their traditional arrow, and they're going super fast. And they're short. So it doesn't take much of penetration for them to be up into the fletchings and mess your fletchings up. Well, this target is supposed to be like the greatest end all, be all target on the market right now.

for crossbows and supposed to still be easy to pull and things like that, affordable. And there's no speed rating, so it's supposed to be unlimited.

Dan Johnson (48:04.845)
And what's the, is this is a target or would this be labeled under crossbows?

Camron Stover (48:11.042)
No, it's a target. It's a 20 inch by 20 inch square target that you're able to shoot crossbow bolts into.

Dan Johnson (48:19.279)
Okay, and what's the name of the target itself? The speed unlimited?

Camron Stover (48:24.354)
Yeah, I think it's Reinhardt Speed Unlimited. And it's cool because it's two different companies working together in that space. You've got SpiderWeb Targets and Reinhardt. And granted, behind the scenes, they might be made by the same people. But this is kind of the first time they've brought a target together to market.

Dan Johnson (48:27.119)
Okay, well I can't.

Dan Johnson (48:41.593)
Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm looking for an image of it real quick. Okay. I see it.

Really what it looks, I'll be honest with you, it looks cool, but from just the looks of it, looks like they're, it almost looks like, and I know I would have to talk to someone from Reinhardt to get all the ins and outs on it, but it looks like one of Spiderweb's targets, but with the Reinhardt logo on it.

Camron Stover (49:12.75)
100 % it definitely looks just like a spiderweb target I would imagine there's an internal layer there that Reinhardt's added to it or something like that But not knowing exactly but the fact that I've got a Reinhardt block target that we use for my son's crossbow and And it's it can be a nightmare sometimes when after a few shots So that's one thing that I know he needs so he can

Dan Johnson (49:21.593)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (49:37.23)
Yeah.

You mean, you mean as far as ease of pull? Yeah.

Camron Stover (49:42.976)
ease of pull and just not tearing up like you put broadheads on it with a crossbow and it just seems like it eats him. So just to improve the time that he gets on the range, we need a really good target for that.

Dan Johnson (49:55.962)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I can remember buying a target. can't. I don't remember what brand it was, but if it was brand new and I was using the wrong type of arrows, it's almost like the friction caused caused melting and it would stick in there and it would take me forever. I thought I going to break some arrows trying to pull them out of there.

Camron Stover (50:18.668)
Yep, I know I've had one or two like that as well and it seems like it's if you go cheap You pay for pay the price and then I have bought one at Walmart one time It was I still have the photos in my phone today because I'm like I want to post these one day First day out of the box. I go and shoot it 20 yards right through it. I'm like what the heck maybe it's a flute Next one buried up to the fletchings. I was like, well this target doesn't work so but it was marketed as a an actual target for you and I to use

Dan Johnson (50:26.051)
Exactly.

Dan Johnson (50:37.263)
You

Dan Johnson (50:48.665)
Yeah, it is what it is at that point. know, like, and you get what you pay for.

Camron Stover (50:48.908)
So, but yeah, that's one of the things.

If targets, especially you get what you pay for with targets.

Dan Johnson (50:58.179)
Yeah, yeah. All right, what else?

Camron Stover (51:01.294)
So this product was released last year. I remember people bringing it to my attention, but it's the Nested Z8 Tree Stand System. And basically you can buy a backpack that's designed to carry your tree stand, your climbing sticks. It comes with the tree stand and the climbing sticks. Basically it's a nice mobile hunting package for 550 bucks. But.

Dan Johnson (51:10.319)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (51:24.239)
Okay, that seems affordable.

Camron Stover (51:26.572)
Yeah, it's really affordable. They don't really give out a lot of weights and stuff on everything, but it's still fairly lightweight. The sticks themselves, in order to fit in this nested system, instead of them having a straight singular pole in the middle, like what we're used to seeing, they have dual sides. So it's a little bigger, they're a little bulkier, but it has a huge stepping surface, which is unusual for most mobile hunting setups.

And then it

Dan Johnson (51:56.602)
And when you say stepping service, you just mean the amount of space they have available to put a foot on. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Camron Stover (52:03.598)
Correct, yep. They're kind of bigger and a bulkier than what a lot of climbing sticks are on the market, but the weight-wise, they're not crazy too big. Personally, I like to have more than three climbing sticks on a mobile setup, so it kind of defeats the purpose for me a little bit without the accessories that you can attach to them. And I don't know if these actually come with those.

shoot, what are they called? We just talked about them. Stirrups, Aders, yeah. Yeah, so it's a pretty nice, neat, well-packaged setup to where it's quiet, easy to maneuver and pack around. Not a product that I probably would see myself buying. The simple cause of I like carrying five climate sticks instead of three.

Dan Johnson (52:35.243)
Aiders or Sterks? Okay, yeah, yep.

Dan Johnson (52:55.705)
Right, right. But I will tell you this. I'm looking at this right now and the first question that came to mind, will the tree stand go set in a crooked tree? Because a lot of hang-ons do not, but they have a version, and I'm not sure how good it is, a version of the old lone wolf batwing on the back of it from a design standpoint. And that looks like I could

I could shimmy that tree stand in an angled tree and level it out, especially with the cables. so, yep, yep.

Camron Stover (53:32.556)
Yeah, so it has adjustments on the post. There's multiple adjustment layers on the post. And then the batwing should adjust kind of your left and right motions.

Dan Johnson (53:42.756)
Yep, yep. Okay, so that looks pretty slick to be honest with you. Now, we just got done having this conversation of you get what you pay for. And if you're going, let's go to a, what would be Elevated? A brand like Elevated, right? If you were gonna go get their micro everything that they have and some of these other brands that have

Micro tree stands like XP, yeah, custom gear, yep, exactly. Right there, you're looking at thousands of dollars compared to 450, or 550 for an entire package, including a pack. Knowing the quality of tethered gear and some of these other lightweight tree stand gears that are out there,

Camron Stover (54:15.138)
Lone Wolf custom gear, XOP, stuff like that.

Dan Johnson (54:38.561)
I look at something like this and I would be concerned on the quality of it on the low end. Would you have those same concerns not even touching the product just from the price point?

Camron Stover (54:50.626)
Yes, and this gets into the fact of did we get caught up in the marketing and need to have the, spend more money to have a better product. The truth is, I don't know how good it's gonna hold up. Are you willing to take a $550 gamble on a product that you're unfamiliar with that looks like it's gonna work versus a product that's a thousand bucks and everybody that you know, that you follow on social media is using. So that's kind of the setup here.

I mean, you look at the Elevate tree stands, you're talking 420 to 460 bucks for just the stand itself.

Dan Johnson (55:25.999)
Right. Right. And now you're getting everything.

Camron Stover (55:30.318)
Yeah, you're getting everything for 550 or something. Yep.

Dan Johnson (55:33.549)
Yeah, 550 now obviously shipping. wonder if this also must be a direct to consumer product at the moment.

Camron Stover (55:41.826)
Yeah, I don't remember saying it anyway.

Dan Johnson (55:42.637)
because I don't see it anywhere when I go to Shields and walk around.

Camron Stover (55:48.672)
Okay, I'll do a quick Google search and see if there's anything available.

Dan Johnson (55:53.264)
I'm also gonna look at the climbing sticks here. Interesting though, because every other customer or every other climbing stick has always been a single pole in the middle, right, that folds up. And these guys have the double poles, which is cool, because it allows you to get your foot as you're climbing all the way to the tree.

Camron Stover (55:57.102)
That's it.

Camron Stover (56:00.533)
direct to consumer.

Dan Johnson (56:22.893)
And I'm not saying that the single poster better, but this does offer like opportunity to put like from a design standpoint to put like the. Stuff in that space, it's that is created when you stack those sticks like you could stuff a code in there or you could stuff something else in that space that is taken up where you can't necessarily do that.

Maybe you could on the inside, it almost creates a box that you could use. I don't know. I'm intrigued by this.

Camron Stover (56:59.022)
So yeah, the biggest thing that I see with the sticks is you're not going to be able to use them on a smaller diameter tree. Judging by how, where they mount to the tree on the back, the cleats or whatever you want to call those.

Dan Johnson (57:07.843)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (57:13.237)
Yeah, yeah. Okay, I see. Okay. Yeah, it doesn't look like there's really any grip as well on the on the inside of those. It looks it looks flat.

Camron Stover (57:23.502)
It just looks like it's designed for a big tree rather than... and you might be hunting an area where there's only big trees and that's a great thing. But a lot of times for me being mobile, like I don't always have the perfect size tree.

Dan Johnson (57:37.583)
Right. And it looks like they have a string or a what would be like what's that kind of rope? It's not a strap. It's like a rope.

Camron Stover (57:46.136)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (57:49.369)
paracord.

Camron Stover (57:49.934)
No, not paracord. That's not the strong stuff that you want to use.

Dan Johnson (57:59.608)
Yeah, anyway, some kind of heavy.

Camron Stover (57:59.988)
our mobile guys are gonna be like, my gosh, how can you not think of this stuff?

Dan Johnson (58:04.023)
Yeah, but a heavy duty rope. It doesn't look heavy duty. It looks thin like it looks like paracord, but it's got to it has to have a safety rating on it, right? Here's a picture. Yeah, here's a picture of like a lone wolf or an other tree stand straps on it as well. So there it looks like there are different versions of tightening this tightening this very interesting, though, I will say.

Camron Stover (58:15.842)
Yeah, for TMA standards.

Camron Stover (58:31.346)
I will say the reviews of random people online are not real high on this system. But looking at it, I feel like the price point, and if you can build off of that product and idea, you might end up with the product that we all really want at a price that we can afford.

Dan Johnson (58:37.731)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (58:49.933)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah, this is still pretty interesting. Yeah, I would love to. I don't know. I would have a very hard time getting rid of any tethered gear or my my current system because I'm so comfortable with it. But this it does have me intrigued, I will say, especially the price point for the product. I would have to get it in my hands. And I'm my guess is that I would.

easily be able to tell you the quality just from holding it.

Camron Stover (59:24.61)
Yeah, I mean it doesn't take much when you actually have used the good and the bad stuff on the market to be like, this is something I would want to use.

Dan Johnson (59:31.972)
Yeah, but with direct to consumer, we must remember that not all brands do this. They say they cut out the middle man and they do, know, if they're direct to consumer in some way cut out the middle man, but this right here is, you know, maybe it's able to be priced at that point because they cut out the middle man and eventually just like all companies, that middle man margin shrinks.

and is now part of the income and revenue of the company once they gain popularity.

Camron Stover (01:00:04.12)
Yeah, I mean at the end of the day I think that we were sold on the direct-to-consumer market as we were saving money on getting a higher product, but the truth of the matter is a lot of those products are now the same price if not more and they just get to make more money.

Dan Johnson (01:00:16.375)
Exactly. All right. What's next, if anything?

Camron Stover (01:00:21.624)
So one of the things that I thought intriguing was, and I've talked about this in years past, is apps and technology that's coming to market. And one of the things that we still didn't have is a social media platform for the hunting community. Like we think Instagram is, but we continue to get censored. We know Facebook's not, TikTok's not, but there was a company out there that I never heard of called Camo Space. And that's one of the places to where

Dan Johnson (01:00:41.561)
Yeah. I mean.

Dan Johnson (01:00:47.247)
Okay.

Camron Stover (01:00:50.924)
Maybe I should start gravitating towards and putting out content and actually viewing content that a deer hunter like me wants to see.

Dan Johnson (01:01:00.515)
Yeah, man, I hate to say it. It's just this is something that's been done. Right. And I know, I know, I know there is every let's let's start off with there was like a whitetails.com or deerhunting.com or something like that. They put a lot of things. I don't think that gained traction. What was the other company that just folded?

Camron Stover (01:01:07.821)
Yes it has.

Camron Stover (01:01:25.426)
not waypoint, what, go wild, go wild. Yep.

Dan Johnson (01:01:28.993)
what dot go wild go wild kind of sp has faded away and i like those guys

Camron Stover (01:01:36.034)
Yeah, yeah, Go Wild turned into a, yeah, I liked them, but it turned into a shopping center. Like it was like, hey, here's our products. And I was like, this is not what I came here for.

Dan Johnson (01:01:42.319)
And that's exactly.

Dan Johnson (01:01:46.648)
Right. It was almost like that was their goal moving forward is to create the space and then start selling to the people that they that they got there. You know what I mean? So but yeah, exactly. And so. Yeah. And so now we have what to me just at first glance is. Is this I mean, it looks like it's got some backing. mean, I'm looking at Michael Waddell on the very. So they must have enough money to pay this guy to.

Camron Stover (01:01:54.092)
Yep, which is brilliant marketing if it worked. But their prices were jacked.

Dan Johnson (01:02:16.525)
to do this, but everybody's done it. And so now what you're doing is you're saying to a company and the popular people, right? Let's say like the Michael Waddell's, Hey guys, I am going to post either additional content or I'm going to post the same content on a different page. Now you have to go and, and come over here to watch it or whatever. And, and I get it. I posted a

a post last night and shared it today about a gun collections for what type of guns you should collect if you're an outdoorsman. I did a podcast on it and in no way, or form is it getting the traction that a regular post that I has. Why? Because it's about firearms. Does that help here? Maybe.

But you know how much people would have to see it even though I do have reduced visibility on Instagram to make up for that? I mean, it's ridiculous. It would be a ridiculous amount. And so I know they've tried to do this before. I hope it works. But there's gotta be a place for, they gotta do something different than what's already been done. And I don't think throwing money at it will solve it.

Camron Stover (01:03:18.412)
ridiculous.

Camron Stover (01:03:38.198)
No, I think that they told me that it was 25,000 users on this app right now. I mean, let's face it, like my Facebook page has 25,000 followers on it, on one of those pages. So your market and your accessibility to other people outside of the hunting community, as well as the hunting community is on these bigger apps that are already there. The problem is just the censoring that isn't going away.

Dan Johnson (01:03:38.263)
It has something has to happen.

Dan Johnson (01:03:51.417)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (01:04:07.351)
Yeah, it's not going away, but it has also been proven that censorship really doesn't matter to a lot of people. I mean, I hate to say it, people bitch and complain about it, but they're not, you know, there's not a lot of guys going, you know what? I made a post about my dear. I'm so mad at it. I'm dropping everything. Right. You would think that if you were that pissed off about it, these brands would be coming over in droves and then their marketing would be like, Hey,

come to me, but because hunting is just a small part of life and all the rest of the life happens and is not censored, people are not gonna come over in droves to these places and post multiple times and read the same thing in multiple places. Does that make sense? Right, so, you know, it just sucks that it has to be the censorship and stuff and maybe it will change, right? You see,

Camron Stover (01:04:53.806)
Correct. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (01:05:04.353)
I read a documentary about or a documentary. read an article recently about Mark Zuckerberg and how he has a PR team now about his looks and his image. And he has to remember that conservative conservatives. Unless just I'm using the word not to get political here, but I'm using the term conservatives in relationship to hunting, right? I don't know a lot of liberal hunters and I'm sure that they're out there, but

conservatives and how they vote are also, you know, I don't want to get into it. What I'm getting at here is there's a certain, there's a certain group of people who hunt and those people, like they're trying to make Zuckerberg more in touch with those people. And so, and so when a company is doing that, that means there might be some less censorship coming down. mean, look at what, look at what, Elon Musk has done with X.

Camron Stover (01:05:39.95)
Hahaha!

Dan Johnson (01:06:03.779)
Right? Is it the same as Twitter? No, it's not. And they're not censoring people as much anymore. And so I think with the current administration being in there, we're going to start to see conservative views being more accessible online, thus hunting more accessible online through these major programs too. And so I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. And I could be because I'm wrong a lot. So.

Camron Stover (01:06:30.712)
Yeah, I mean just to touch on Mark Zuckerberg, we've seen him hunt, we've seen him fish, we've seen him doing jiu jitsu and all this stuff that a lot of us like to do that are in this space. But I think he's just got a big group of people that's kind of kept him from being able to release that to the public. But yeah, he's playing with a different set of cards than we are, but I think...

Dan Johnson (01:06:51.257)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (01:06:55.684)
Yeah.

Camron Stover (01:06:56.034)
He's not much different than we are when it comes to that side of things. His viewpoints probably aren't off when it comes to hunting.

Dan Johnson (01:07:01.441)
Right. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what his PR team needs to do. They need to schedule a public land run and gun hunt with like Zach Farinbaugh from the hunting public. And and I'd watch that those two guys go out into the wilderness and try to slay a or any deer. I would watch it. OK, so there's that. I like I hope it. I hope they.

Camron Stover (01:07:14.295)
gosh,

Camron Stover (01:07:20.728)
That would be hilarious and I would love it.

Dan Johnson (01:07:30.681)
that the company takes off. I've uphill battle. Exactly. What's next? If anything, let's go through about two more if we have two more, because we've been chatting a long time here.

Camron Stover (01:07:33.632)
It's just uphill battle. Like it's a tough situation to be in.

Camron Stover (01:07:45.166)
Okay, I'm gonna do a hot streak of just go through a bunch of stuff. Trophy Scan is a digital app that you can download to measure deer antlers. Does it work very well? I can't say that it does. I had a kid test it the other day in the booth this weekend and it added an extra 20 inches to a deer, so I was pumped for that score. Yep.

Dan Johnson (01:07:54.808)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (01:08:04.604)
I am sold. I'm sold. You tell me what I'm going to go through and tell everybody I got room full of Boone and Crockett deer now.

Camron Stover (01:08:12.568)
Yeah, so I can't say that it's real accurate. I haven't tested it myself, but I watched him do it and it come out 20 inches higher than what this deer actually was. So I appreciated the extra inches, but I think they're onto something as far as making that a little bit easier and guesstimate and things like that. That was fun. Got to check out the Baku. You know, e-bikes are a huge rage in the market and it just blows my mind that the market continues to just grow and grow and grow in that space and I've got a couple.

Dan Johnson (01:08:22.755)
Hahaha

Camron Stover (01:08:41.836)
But seeing the Baku electric motorcycle, like it's basically a dirt bike in person, think it's a beast. Like it's an actual dirt bike with a huge battery and I'm thinking like, why would I want an electric bicycle? Why wouldn't I just get an electric dirt bike? So that thing was pretty cool. Go ahead.

Dan Johnson (01:08:59.055)
Hey, I got to tell you a story real quick. I got to tell you a story real quick. I have a quiet cat. All right. And in this was a one day, one day, I took a path through public land to backdoor a piece of public land that was closer to the road, but I had to go through private property to get to it. So I backdoored it through, through large Chuck chunk. And I went 6.

one miles on my e-bike in an hour. I think it was less than that. It was less than an hour, maybe somewhere between 30 minutes to an hour, probably closer to that 45 minute range, whatever. Six miles in, six miles back. And I did that in a day. Now imagine walking back.

Camron Stover (01:09:51.544)
Dude, I can't tell you how-

Dan Johnson (01:09:52.302)
You know what I mean? And I'm telling you right now, I'm like, holy shit. And it is a battery, it's not a, it's not a motorized vehicle, in the eyes of that, that states rules and regulations. And so I look at that, I'm go huge loophole. I'm going to take advantage of it.

Camron Stover (01:10:09.312)
And for me, like I've been running e-bikes for years, a lot of it on private, but what I found the most success with running an e-bike, like I like them for hunting, I like them for even turkey hunting as well, because it's quieter and I could sneak into the roost a lot quicker. But the truth is, it's shed season. You know how many open corn fields we have here and how long it takes me to walk them? I can ride them on an e-bike and pick up just as many sheds in literally 10 % of the time and effort.

Dan Johnson (01:10:36.697)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Camron Stover (01:10:37.804)
And that's when for me, like I could just hop in, I can hit two or three farms in a day instead of just hitting one farm and just not even getting half of it. But that e-bike systems, like they're not going away. They are an asset and I find more and more ways to use them for fun. I did switch to a dual suspension bike though, Dan. If you like comfort, I know you got bad knees and stuff. Dual suspension bikes are way more comfortable. Not as hunter friendly, but.

Dan Johnson (01:11:01.945)
Yep.

Camron Stover (01:11:06.732)
really enjoyable on the trail.

Dan Johnson (01:11:09.591)
Yeah, Baku Electric Bike. I'm going to their website right now and I want to look at this new. What's what's the name of the the? Let's see what they got here, but it's a it's a legit dirt bike, right? It should.

Camron Stover (01:11:18.808)
crap.

Camron Stover (01:11:24.364)
Yeah, it's literally a full-size dirt bike. Yeah, it's huge.

Dan Johnson (01:11:27.841)
Okay. I don't see it. It's back who, right?

Dan Johnson (01:11:34.682)
The other thing I like about the Baku bikes is they have dual drives. They have some of them that are dual drives, meaning there's a different motor for both wheels. so long story short, that means more torque and you're able to, know, basically four wheel drive for a bicycle is what it is. That's pretty, the Luma X24 Puma. Okay. Yeah.

Camron Stover (01:11:51.97)
Yep. Puma X24.

Puma, Puma with a P. You're looking at 80 volts on the motor. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (01:12:04.676)
Are you on the website? Okay, I must be. Is it under e-scooters or is it under e-bikes?

Camron Stover (01:12:11.63)
It's under eMoto. There's a Puma X22 and X24.

Dan Johnson (01:12:15.445)
Aha. All right. Now I got, my God, dude, that six miles turns into that six miles turns into, you know, 15 minutes with this thing.

Camron Stover (01:12:19.042)
Yeah, look at that beast.

Camron Stover (01:12:25.326)
So the guy that I was talking to said he got a chance to test one and he did 60 miles on it.

And like I look, it's like, where's the battery? And he said, basically everything under that frame is the battery. I was like, holy crap. can't imagine how much those things cost just to replace the battery.

Dan Johnson (01:12:37.87)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (01:12:41.741)
Yeah, what about the weight?

Camron Stover (01:12:43.599)
The weight it's still it's in that dirt bike range. It's I think he said like 300 and something like it It was a beast if I remember correctly like three something

Dan Johnson (01:12:46.69)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (01:12:52.303)
Yeah, the issue becomes part of the e-bike loophole has wattage with it. So. Yeah, this is not. Yeah, exactly. Yep, definitely not. Yep, exactly. All right. Yeah, this is rated power 6000 to 22000 watts. So with a max speed of 77 miles an hour. Holy shit. All right.

Camron Stover (01:13:01.378)
Yeah, yeah, this is not gonna fit under that hunting scenario for public land. This is a toy.

Camron Stover (01:13:21.742)
Yeah, it's that, I had an old e-bike, electric motorcycle market, it's crazy. Couple things I wanna touch on before we get off here. So, if you've ever seen where you can attach your phone to optics, whether it be a spotting scope or binos and then take video and things like that, some of those products that you gotta be customized to the optic, customized to the phone, all this stuff, and they can be really expensive to set up. Well, Hawk has one for like 30 bucks.

Dan Johnson (01:13:26.51)
It is.

Camron Stover (01:13:48.544)
and it worked great and it was extremely fast but at Hawk Optics, really easy to set up and I've always struggled with these new iPhones with having three different cameras and this lady was able to just take my phone, put it on a set of optics in like 30 seconds and I was like, sold, where can I buy one? She's like, well, they're not ready for sale yet but you get a chance to look at it before they are. So hopefully NWTF or maybe the Harrisburg show, there'll be some available.

Really like that and then last Stan has a release an index finger release, which is most of what hunters use But it has a clicker in it. It's the first Index finger release that I've seen with a clicker You can still punch the trigger you can rip through the shot But you actually when you anchor in you'll hear the click just like you would with a target release and then you can pull through So that I thought that was pretty neat

Dan Johnson (01:14:24.62)
except me.

Dan Johnson (01:14:40.239)
Gotcha.

Do they have those same, that same technology in releases for middle finger releases? Like trigger fingers too? Because I'm screwed, I can't use it.

Camron Stover (01:14:54.094)
I I think you can make it work. I think you can just flip it, flip your nub on the other side of it and go. So question, do you actually, I mean it's natural for you now, but like do you have any issues with anchoring or anything like that that you have to custom fit?

Dan Johnson (01:14:57.175)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (01:15:14.039)
Not anymore. when I, I did it initially, for the first two years, I, I was struggling trying to find, but depending, like I use a thumb release now. So I take the nub and I put it right here where the jaw meets the neck. And it's, it's like a second anchor. mean, when I mean anchor, it's a real anchor. And so I'm, right here. I put it right in this jaw bone here and then everything lines up. You know, I got to, I use a kisser button.

Camron Stover (01:15:35.013)
yeah.

Dan Johnson (01:15:44.975)
I use a peep site and it's just another little boop and then you're good to go, dude.

Camron Stover (01:15:50.158)
Well, I hope that's not going to be the new trend in archery. It's like, need an extra anchor point? Get rid of your finger.

Dan Johnson (01:15:53.84)
to remove your index finger. Get rid of, chop your finger off, right? Love it, love it. We got one more before we call our quits here. Are you done?

Camron Stover (01:16:05.486)
I've got one that I'm not gonna say like anybody else should buy this one but I went there with the advice of shooting a particular bow and As bad as I hate to say it I shot that one bow and I told the guy I said I don't want to like this bow I said but I was asked to shoot this bow to give her a view on it and I picked it up he He adjusted it to my draw length real quick I came to full draw and I was like dang it. That was the first thing I said was dang it and he's like what and I said

Dan Johnson (01:16:24.386)
Okay.

Camron Stover (01:16:34.73)
It fits perfect. And then I released aero. And I released another aero. And I was like, crap. Well, there went $2,000. But I did really like the PSC. And I haven't shot a PSC in years. It's the 33DS, or Mach 33DS. It was an impressive bow. I hate to say that. Me not being wanting to spend that kind of money. But wow, it felt good. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (01:16:56.707)
Hey, there's not wrong. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. And I'll tell you why here. Back in the day, PSE, they were known for, we have the fastest bows, right? That's what they were known for. Our travels, our arrows travel fast out of these bows. They had smaller.

Camron Stover (01:17:23.426)
Bright sights.

Dan Johnson (01:17:23.673)
Brace heights, yep, they had smaller brace heights. The draw cycles were not friendly at all. You had to rip your damn shoulder out sometimes trying to get these bows pulled back. But you knew that when you released it, that arrow was gonna be going faster than any other. Man, speed kills. I thought that was one of their marketing strategies for a while. Yep, speed kills. so whatever, take that however you want.

Camron Stover (01:17:45.27)
It was back in the dream season days.

Dan Johnson (01:17:52.494)
Now, I think what happened is something happened there and they realized that speed is not as important as being right around the time when Elite came out. Remember, Elite has always been that bow company, what they call that shootability, that came out with the shootability and smooth draw cycles, know, less hand shock making this bow shootable and friendly. And I think...

PSE kind of came to a turning point. This is this is my guess here and they said we can't do this anymore. We have to have Bows that are more friendly on the draw cycle. They're more friendly on the valley They're more friendly, you know friendlier axle to axles and brace heights and things like that and I will say when I was looking for my last bow four years ago it came down to a PSE a bow tech and I

I can't, it might've even been a Matthews and I have never been a fan of Matthews, but PSE in my personal opinion has made one of the biggest strides in turning their bows into friendlier shooting bows than anybody else on the market has. And dude, I can see it. I haven't shot this new bow, but I can see it. I can see why their bow has been like, ooh, I like this bow.

Camron Stover (01:19:19.426)
Yep, I was extremely impressed and I didn't go there shooting a bunch of bows because at the end of the day, Hoyt's not there, Matthews isn't there. Like lot of your big game players are not there, so it's not a fair comparison place anymore. used to be. But man, even though I've got to hook up on bows, I may have to switch and pick up a PSE this year. It made a big impression on me and they kept... So for me,

Dan Johnson (01:19:44.75)
What did you like about it?

Camron Stover (01:19:47.48)
There's two things that I like about a bow. And the first thing is the grip and how that grip fits my hand. I don't have a huge hand, but I like where the shelf of the rest, where it meets the V of my hand between my thumb and my index finger, my forefinger. But where that sits in, is that going to be replicated every time I pick up that bow without looking at it?

Dan Johnson (01:20:06.711)
Yep. Yep.

Camron Stover (01:20:14.806)
And that was one of the first bows in a long time that when it fit my hand right off the bat and I was like, okay, there's step one. Step two is a string angle. And you could have a 33 inch axle to axle bow from one manufacturer to the next, but the string angles made different because of the roll of the cam. And that string angle fit my face like my old Hoyt Viper Tech from like 2005. And that's exactly what I felt like when I picked that bow up and hit my riser.

when I had the grip and when I anchored in. Now everything in between, the hand shock was way more far and advanced, but those two feelings, because that's the only two things that touch on this boat, is the string and your hand on the grip. The rest of it in between is just to benefit and have user preference. But that right there was enough for me to say, and then when I released the arrow and then another arrow, and I was like, dang it.

I think I just spend a lot of money.

Dan Johnson (01:21:15.279)
Yeah, I'm going to tell you this right now. This is based just on a number on a website. I shoot better with longer axle to axles and 30 inch axle to axle. Maybe I'll get back to it someday, but right now I'm looking at something in that 30. Like I'm guessing the absolute lowest that I would go. It would be 31.

but I'm gonna probably be shooting a 32 or 33 this upcoming year. it's just, it's again, that's user preference. Now I can shoot this bow and be like, I don't need it. Because you're right, axle to axle isn't as important now as what I think it used to be with the bigger cam systems that people are shooting. And you know, when they roll off there, it's not a true 30 inch axle to axle because the string angle is important. But there's something about

Something about, for me personally, I like a longer axle to axle.

Camron Stover (01:22:18.382)
Yep, and our drawl-ins are probably not similar. Like, I'm stretching at a 28 and that bow felt really good at a 28. You're probably, what, 29 and a half? 30, okay. Yeah, so a 33 inch axle-to-axle bow for you is gonna feel completely different than the 33 on me, but I really like this bow at 33. And it's carbon, it's got a reduced weight and stuff like that. And I'm gonna go shoot some other bows on the market before I make a purchase, but...

Dan Johnson (01:22:27.503)
30.

Camron Stover (01:22:44.716)
That's the first time in a long time I've picked up a PSC and said that is at the top of the list right now.

Dan Johnson (01:22:49.805)
Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think their brand is doing it right now. They've always done it right for that niche market, the speed kills market, but last five years to 10, I mean, they've started, I think they identified it is what I'm getting at. And they started making the changes to fix that. So cool. Well, Hey man, one hell of a conversation today. Thanks for taking time to hop on the podcast and walk through some of these.

Camron Stover (01:23:07.63)
Yeah, I agree.

Dan Johnson (01:23:18.457)
products and brands with us. was a good conversation. Also make sure that you guys go check out huntinggeardeals.com. Long story short, he scours the internet on a weekly, daily basis and he is looking for what discount codes, you're looking for sales, you're looking for new, interesting products. You have a lot of blog entries as far as the new gear reviews. yep, stop shopping guides like that.

Camron Stover (01:23:43.082)
reviews and things like that, shopping guides. So to touch base on that, I've been slacking off. So if there's anybody out there, you can shoot me an email or contact me on social media, but I'm a little slower. I'm looking to partner with somebody. I need help with the daily deals. Just like how I started with Mike Higman originally when he started this website. My other business is absorbing 99 % of my time that I have available.

Dan Johnson (01:24:01.677)
Okay.

Camron Stover (01:24:11.552)
so I could use somebody to do the grant style work and help me with these daily deals.

Dan Johnson (01:24:16.483)
This is what I would say. you're, and you're gonna pay him, right? Okay. Yeah. So, yeah. So, I mean, this is, if you're looking to get your foot in the door in the hunting industry, if you're a young kid or you decided maybe I don't wanna go to college or I wanna get my foot in the door in some way, or form into the hunting industry, this might be an awesome opportunity for someone who is entry level to get in and help you out.

Camron Stover (01:24:20.812)
Yep, yep, well there will be a payment process involved.

Camron Stover (01:24:45.966)
Yep, and that's exactly how I started. literally volunteered because I heard him on your podcast talking about this hunting gear deal stuff. So I would literally just shoot him an email and say, hey, this is, found these on sale. And then one day he calls me like six months later, he's like, hey, you still interested in coming to help? Fast forward a couple of years and I bought the business from him. Actually supported my family with this business until the real estate market kind of picked up and I came over to Whitehall Properties. And now right now the commission's on

Dan Johnson (01:24:52.889)
Yep.

Camron Stover (01:25:15.778)
the real estate side of it pay just a little bit more than the commissions on the on the broadhead so but it's a fun process man I really enjoy it and I'm not gonna stop I'm just looking for some help

Dan Johnson (01:25:17.903)
Little bit better. Yeah, there you go.

Dan Johnson (01:25:28.399)
Yep, absolutely cool. Well, there you go. Uh, Cameron Mann, uh, appreciate your time. Have a good rest of your week.

Camron Stover (01:25:34.136)
Thanks, Dan. Appreciate it.

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