Hunting in Cold Weather with Code of Silence

Show Notes

This week the guys are doing their best to stay warm with Jamie and Ev of Code of Silence. Jamie and Ev are experienced hunters in Nebraska especially when talking cold weather comfort.  Andrew has a nice conversation and discusses the different terrain of Nebraska, regulations, and opportunities. Jamie is an Ohio native, so we share some commonalities with her Buckeye state roots!

Paul has been out doing God’s work in the turkey world, while Andrew is struggling to get in the woods and on deer.  Fighting with random wind patterns and such, but the deer are moving!  Get out in those woods, be safe, shoot straight, and enjoy the woods!

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Show Transcript

[00:00:00] What's up everybody. Welcome back to the O2 podcast. This is Andrew. Today, Paul is still out doing God's work in the turkey world. Real quick, we will get you an introduction and then on your way. So I'm recording this and it is October 27th and so On the network we send all of our stuff in and it gets uploaded and by Josh from the Wisconsin sportsmen, Josh is going to be heading out on his rotation here soon.

So it's one of those things that we really, we got to give it to him early. And so the shows you're going to listen to both What would it be like November 2nd and the following week, these are prerecorded and the intros will not be super up to date on [00:01:00] that. But either way, real quick, we just want to give a thanks to our partners in go wild time to go wild.

com, social media, online shop, all kinds of stuff. I'm telling you, if you are in need of anything, check their first, their prices are going to be As low as anywhere you'll find, but they'll also, you've got points and different things you can pick up there and great network, great place to be.

So go wild Half Rack. Thanks to the guys at Half Rack. Meatlug time coming up. It's warm right now, but as we release this, it's probably going to be really cold. Based on the weather and Ohio Outdoors 15 will be your code there. So thank you very much to the guys at Half Rack. Blackgate, Hunting Gear, those are the cameras that we're running, which are fantastic.

I wish I could have them on every property that I hang cameras at, just from the detail and the clarity of the [00:02:00] pictures it's amazing. Midwest Gunworks, okay, Blackgate, O2 Podcast, we'll save you 10 percent at your code, O2 Podcast. Midwest Gunworks. That code there is OHIOOUTDOORS5 to save you 5 percent as you're getting your guns ready for gun season.

If you find something you need, even sling anything that you might need, parts, that's where you should be looking for your... firearm needs. Great customer service. Can't say enough good stuff about them. The stuff that we've purchased through them has been fabulous. X vision optics. com is your thermal night vision guys.

Super fun. Can't wait to get back into the coyote realm here soon. And all that evening night hunting

just changes the game. Timber ninja outdoors. These are the, One of our newer partners working with them on the saddles. And I was out last night [00:03:00] and that saddle is so stinking comfortable. I've got the nano super comfortable, super light. And I had somebody asked me, you sit in the tree for four or five hours, like how.

How bad is it? I'm like, it's not bad at all. Don't even really realize I was sitting up there. And then obviously they've got their sticks. Everything about them is super cutting edge. Even down to the tree tether. I had a different tree tether that I had been using swapped in a Timber Ninja one.

It was just lighter, smaller, did the job. It was perfect. And If that's, if you're into the mobile world and really out there trying to cut ounces and be efficient, definitely something to look into. The code there is O H I O, Ohio for free shipping. Deer nuts. It's not crazy to think you'll get more deer this year.

It's not insane to [00:04:00] believe that a 12 point buck will soon be smiling at you from over the fireplace. It is however, nuts, deer nuts, the savory acorn flavored attractant deer can't resist. Made with advanced extrusion technology. They're easier to eat and harder to dissolve in rain. Grab some nuts at gear nut, get deer nuts.

com slash Ohio. While they're check out some cool merch like the no nuts, no glory truck decals, and more that's get deer nuts. com slash Ohio. Deer nuts, you could try hunting without them, but you'd be nuts. Around the state, I don't have a ton of information. I know on November 11th there is some Veterans Day events.

Let me see if I can find that email real quick. Veterans can shoot free at Ohio's public ranges on November 11th, so thank you to the vets. And get out and take a,

take advantage of that. ODNR is hosting a veterans archery hunt at Tulesky State Forest. I'm guessing that will be,[00:05:00]

I don't have a date on here, but ODNR, OhioDNR. gov for more information there and a little bit about today's show. So this week we are talking to Jamie and Ev of Code of Silence and they are based out of Nebraska. It's a pretty interesting conversation. Code of Silence is a clothing manufacturer that a brand that they, they make clothes that are really geared for hunting in the cold weather.

As this releases, I think our temperatures in Ohio will be plummeting and really start to feel that, that cold weather that bite that you get, right? When the whole goal is to stay comfortable in the stand, the longer you can be out there, the better the more comfortable you can be, the better.

Keep those joints warm, all that kind of stuff. And we didn't want to do this as some kind of commercial for any brand, but the... It was interesting in talking with them [00:06:00] because they've got a lot of experience hunting in cold weather out in Nebraska. I don't know much about Nebraska. I was trying to learn as we go.

We talked about hunting, the different kind of habitat types they have out there, but also how to handle cold weather and moisture management. And honestly, it doesn't matter what brand of clothes you're running. That has got to be a key if you're wet in the cold. It's miserable, right? I think we've all been there at some point.

I still struggle with that more than anything because I won't slow down just to get into the woods. I'm trying to rush out there, but very interesting. Jamie on the show, she's actually an Ohio native. So she comes from Dublin outside of Columbus. So that was an interesting connection and she was excited to hop on and talk to the Ohio podcast.

And I think you guys will enjoy it. As this rolls out, we are entering the best couple of weeks of the hunting season. Good luck out there. I know there's a lot of big deer going [00:07:00] down. Next week's episode, we're going to talk to some guys that had some firsts as far as their first bucks or archery deer and As you guys are taking your harvest, please tag us, share it with us on any of the social media.

Instagram, it's the. o2. podcast. On Go Wild, we are o2podcast. Website is theo2podcast. com, but let us know what you guys are doing and we will be happy to get back on there. I'm trying to think, man, and Paul and I will be back together and recording. We'll get you some content from the deer camp up in Michigan, as well as some other interesting guests here coming up, but good luck in the woods.

Stay safe. And yeah, let us know what's happening out there.

Okay. [00:08:00] So this morning I'm joined with Jamie and Ev from code of silence, right? These are, we got cooked up here through Glen Glen, and talk to you guys a little bit about hunting Nebraska. This is a little bit outside of the normal Ohio realm, but I think there's a lot of crossover.

And in our conversation there, Jamie, we figured out that you are from Ohio. So you definitely have connection there. How are you guys doing this morning? So we're having this conversation. It's October 26th. And you said that you guys are just getting hit with a cold front, right?

But it's we came out,

Just... Not even.

So now we're going 16 degrees, I think, tonight. So we'll be breaking ice in the morning. So it's quite a change, but bipolar weather, right? [00:09:00] Ohio is good. Good for that too, which is funny because so you guys are west of us. And then as this will release and about, I think about a week, we'll be getting hit with, I don't know if it's the same cold front, but definitely a cold front.

According to the weather, we're going to be in the low twenties in central Ohio, which that's pretty cold for. At least recent history. The last couple of ruts for, the first week or two in November, it seems like it's 70 degrees. Everybody's complaining. It's too hot. Definitely refreshing for the deer hunter.

I'm sure there's a lot of other people that are not ready for it, but

it's refreshing. Yes. Selfishly. It's when it's 85, we'll take it from, that business side of things for sure. And it's definitely football weather and you guys know stuff about football out there and corn husker world. And we pride ourselves in football over here in Ohio. Yeah, had to bring up in this era. Yeah, that's good.

[00:10:00] We'd have our chest stuck out. That's all right.

We can all just agree that we don't like the state up north and go from there. Would you guys want to give me a rundown, like a real quick kind of your background and what passion and how you got into this industry?

Mine is weird. It's a weird story. I mentioned I'm originally from, had zero experience hunting in the suburbs. Then after I graduated from Ohio State,

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I do that often, especially this time of year. But I had zero knowledge, really zero interest in hunting. Until I moved out west and I moved out west. Cattle actually brought me out west. I was more focused on bovine nutrition and reproduction. And then met my husband out here in Nebraska and he is an avid bowhunter.

[00:11:00] So he's the one who got me at least exposed to the outdoor lifestyle. And now that's a huge part of my life, our life together. Out here in Nebraska, so we're in western Nebraska in the Sydney area. In Cabela's headquarters is in Sydney. Okay. So that was a really cool opportunity for me to get my foot in the door.

Started lower on the totem pole. I actually started as a packer in the distribution center and then met Ev through an event as we were talking to your products and then Ev brought me over into the corporate building and then worked in merchandising and product development for the rest of my career at Cabela's.

Oh, cool. Very good. So you were on Ag campus then? And if you were doing BOA? Oh, yeah, man, that's where I spent way too much time. So I can spend a lot of time there. Yes. Okay yeah, so as Amy mentioned we met at Cabela's about 10 years ago. Actually I had been at Cabela's at that point.

Probably close to [00:12:00] 20 years, maybe a little longer than actually, so I started out of college. I had a biology degree and. Yeah. They had an opening for an aquarium keeper in their new retail store. Cabela's was opening in Kearney, Nebraska way back in 87. So do you want to know how old I was in 87 or is that we shouldn't go there.


I was only, I graduated from high school, college when I was like, so gotcha. No, but get my foot in the door through that position and. College. It was probably not what I aspired to do, but Cabela's had a lot to do with where my love of the outdoors was headed. So higher down in a neat time at Cabela's, there's never been a non neat time, back then it was just it was real small company and So I, I moved anyway, so that was in Kearney, Nebraska.

I moved to Sydney soon after that when I come to work every day, I'd see Jim Cabela and Dick Cabela and [00:13:00] Mary Cabela and we all worked together and it was a neat experience. But anyway, I spent over 30 years there and 25 of those 30 years was in charge of managing and running the hunting clothing division for Cabela.

Hence the background, my background and how it leans into this into what we're doing right now. Very cool. Jamie and I met 10 years ago and Jamie was just a real unique person. I'm going to brag her up a little bit, but it's just brought, even though back then she was probably just getting into hunting.

Brought an incredible passion and level of insight and just drive and business acumen and. I was one of those I, worked for a lot of people, but Jamie is one of those people who's like, where did this person come from? And so the rest is the rest is yeah, the rest is kind of history.

Yeah. It's been a cool journey. Yeah, very cool. So you guys are out in Nebraska, and I don't know much about Nebraska. I've been a lot of states, but that's one I haven't been to. What is [00:14:00] hunting Nebraska like? I feel like I've watched some videos of different, YouTube personalities and stuff out there for the terrain side of things.

Is it, it's flat, right? Is it just all flat the whole way through? Or is there actually pockets of parts? Yeah, it's interesting. I think, just because I understand where people,

And it runs right down the plot

Is definitely the flat area of Nebraska. But anyway, the interstate follows the, by far the flattest area in Nebraska, and you get off the sides of that river valley and it changes quite dramatically. I was actually driving through Kansas and Oklahoma this last weekend and. And going, why don't they call these places flat?

This is way flatter than where I'm from. And but anyway, we have a, what I would say is just a variety of terrain. We have the flat river country. We have a lot of creek [00:15:00] bottoms that you would swear you're in, the heart of Iowa. We have in the extreme Northwest, we have the tail end of the Black Hills that comes down into the state where there's a lot of, cone bearing trees and, elk and then we have a kind of a gem, a diamond in the rough, a place called the Sandhills of Nebraska, which is totally unique, which is literally a hundred mile by a hundred mile type area of just rolling seas of grass, dances with wolf's country.

Even choppier than that though. And really unique. So I think it's probably one of the more diverse states that's out there as far as habitat goes. That's, I think from Ohio, we can relate because like our western half of the state, it's pretty flat, but then you get the eastern side and it starts to get the hills.

And we have a little bit of everything too. So that's, we all like to generalize things, right? And bring up dances with wolves. on another movie front. I'm pretty sure it was dumb and dumber when they're driving out to Colorado. And that's what I think of when I think of, that's what I think of when I [00:16:00] think of Nebraska, they're just flying on a flat around.

You had two pairs of gloves the whole time. But anyways

yeah, that's funny. So when you go out to hunt in Nebraska, are you guys like a draw state or is it over the counter?

State, right out here. Yeah, like one of the best pick just around, out here in the western state. Great with whitetail and on the creek bottoms, but mule deer as well in elk and turkey. We have any antelope. If you are a resident turkey, deer and antelope with an art with a bow is over the counter.

If you were to want to harvest an antelope with a muzzleloader or rifle, you would put in for a draw. And then elk is really unique here. This state is known for great quality elk. Yeah. But that's a once in [00:17:00] a lifetime draw, right? Yep. Okay. Yep, I think if you're successful, I think you can once in a lifetime to harvest.

If you're, okay, yep. Which everybody's successful, so it's... When you... once in a lifetime, yeah. Fair, yeah. But only 400 inch elk are very common. Wow. So there are plenty of species out there to hunt. It's not just deer, whitetail, mule deer. You've got lots of things to choose from there. So what's a public land?

If somebody from outer state was thinking about making a trip out to Nebraska and they don't know, they're not residents. They don't know, have land out there. Do you guys have a good amount of public land out there or? No, we don't. Yeah. It's in this like slow single digit percentage. But there is some quality, I'll say that.

So we have reservoirs here. On our systems and they fluctuate a lot. And so you have the upstream side, which is almost always [00:18:00] the Western side that it's fluctuates water level wise and has a tremendous growth of trees and brush. And they're almost always public. And I know some people have taken some tremendous whitetails on those, in those scenarios.

And they get, they get hunted, but the deer get used to that pressure and have learned to survive in that pressure, so it's not like. They leave or whatever. But I will say that, despite we don't have that much public land, some of what we have is very good quality.

Yeah. And is it high eighties, nineties is mostly private lands? What is the percent? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It was, but to Ev's point too, connections with landowners or at least, for anybody who wants to get into hunting or it's. It's an option. Quality's good. It's not, we don't have a ton of public ground, but that shouldn't deter though.

Like I would just wanna make sure that doesn't deter from Yeah. It's principal wanting to explore Nebraska, the entrance to, [00:19:00] the entrance points to access is still Yeah. Pretty prevalent, and we're a, just a, an old school state still, and I think a lot like Ohio and a lot of, most of the Midwest is in a lot of ways.

It's the days of beating on every door and getting on land for helping pick Spence and stuff are gone, but they're still there. There's a lot of people that just really, you know, value, respect and relationships over someone just coming in and writing checks, for example.

Good. That's great. That's great to hear. And Ohio doesn't have a ton of public land either. We're in that low single digits. And so we can relate on that end of things, but there's still a lot of very quality land that we have, access to. So that's good. Sorry, Andrew, we think, to your question, we think about deer when someone asks that question and pheasant and elk hunting.

We have some private land access programs to the state that are state funded. And I can't tell you what the current name of [00:20:00] that program is, they have the walking areas, hundreds of the walk-in areas. They have hundreds of thousands of acres that, are open to to anyone to access.

So it's been coming out of a drought. So the pheasant populations are not as they would be traditionally, but Nebraska has some portions of the state that are. every bit as good as, the famous South Dakota type pheasant hunting. And we have quail, we have Hungarian partridge, we have shark tail grouse or shark tails and also just in grouse.

It's been there's a lot of different opportunities for my bird brain co host is not here to discuss all those opportunities with you, or else we'd be talking about that for the next, 40 minutes. What does the whitetail scene look like out there this year? So you mentioned coming out of a drought.

I know your guys weather has been a lot different than ours. I don't know what the system is or whatever from the jet stream, but I know you guys Did you guys get a pretty heavy winter last year? Yeah. So we didn't, right? We're on that line where it was very mild here. I have a feeling that's going to shift our direction [00:21:00] this year and we will then take the brunt of that on.

But that's fine. Either, either way. What does I heard a lot of people talk about, it was dry out there this year. Is that affecting any movement or anything you guys are seeing out there? This year Okay.

Okay. Huge surprise. Complete contract before where we literally in this area had, six, seven inches of moisture, I think in 22 or something up to mid twenties type inches of annual moisture this year. So it's within a, it's never brought that wet here, but we had Iowa type moisture this year.

So it was crazy. It was awesome to see we've never had. A food plot system that's worked very well down here. We've tried different things for the hardiness and for the, drought resistant. But it, our food plots, our soybeans and oats and everything have looked really good. It's good.

Yes, it really [00:22:00] does. Good. So the deer should be good and fat and happy and hope so. Yeah. Have you guys...

That's yeah. So from a hunting perspective, it's made it a little bit challenging, especially with spot stock stuff. Like it's beneficial to have all that. That rush to work through but it also is the other side. We're just never happy. There's no grass we want it to rain as soon as it rains he says grass is too long.

No I hear, I understand that. So so you mentioned spotting stock is that what the way you guys hunt mostly or are we doing tree stands or? So we do some tree stand hunting

at least with my we just bought two and that's like spotting type stuff. When you get further east Trees are everywhere. So that tree stand hunting is very prominent there. [00:23:00] This is very interesting. Now my mind is just like spinning. Because the spot and stock thing is unique. So when you're spot and stock how close are you getting to a white tail to pull up on?

It's hard to do that with a white tail. Okay. Usually with spot and stock kind of more success with mule deer. Those are the two species that we mostly spot and stalk out there. I'm wearing my Ohio hat. I'm an idiot. Okay, so why is it easier to get in on them? That's a, it's a great question. I have to interrupt you.

Jamie can speak to this as well or better than I can. But, I've spot stalked whitetails. Spent my whole life stocking antelope prior to that kind of, and really just thought nothing's tougher to sneak up on than an antelope. And that's not true. Once you sneak up, they can be not that hard, but just their hearing is their, it's their tolerance.

In my opinion, [00:24:00] mule deer, antelope, not that they're tolerant, but it's just a whole different level too. Get by the, the ears and the eyes and the noses of Whitetail. It's, in a ground scenario, I, sometimes it's like, why am I even doing this? But those two species, those are not species that walk underneath trees very often.

So that's also why And we're talking archery, right? And I'm not going to say specific with archery, but that's probably, that's mostly how my husband and I hunt, but antelope are in pastures and so are mule deer so you, some mule deer can, wander under a tree, but thinking of how these animals survive, there's not many, there's not areas to climb a tree and Harvest an antelope out of.

That doesn't happen. They like being in open fields and in areas where they can see. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I've tried, I don't want to say spot and stalk, just stalking up on some does in my [00:25:00] backyard and I'll just try to like crawl up on them. And man, those things are, they are just like on it and it's pretty tall grass.

It's probably similar to some of what you're saying, but they don't, they do not tolerate that at all. So I just, it's interesting, Jamie. Kind of chime in here. I have some, I have a place where

they're tending. They will leave the trees and go out and sagebrush. And, my rule of thumb of whether I'm going to go out there and try to stalk a whitetail is it has to be blowing over 15 miles an hour. It's almost pointless just to have some sort of level of cover noise. So that's the balance.

As soon as it's blowing 20, you really don't want to be flinging arrows out there, but if it's blowing eight or 10 miles an hour, it's, you just. Yeah, you can get 70 yards from them, but, we're trying to get 30 yards from them, if not closer. And that's just a different level of, particularly if it's [00:26:00] dry.

Sometimes when the grass is a little greener, which is not very often, you get more forgiveness in the noise levels on the ground. But if it's dry, which, 90 percent of the time it is, it's one little crunch, and yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm talking about cover noise. This is completely off topic.

I had a buddy send me this morning. He was in the tree stand and I don't know. They must have been doing fighter jet training or something. And he just got this videos of the jets going over. They're and they're low and he's that would have been great cover noise, right? To just sneak right in there because ain't nobody hearing anything on that.

Is there a train? All right, I'll wait. You guys are out in Nebraska and it gets cold out there. So one of the things that we really want to talk about today is late season hunting. And that's, where the code of silence is. I don't want to say [00:27:00] base, but what you're focused, right?

It's on that cold season hunting. So I just want to, we got this cold front coming in. We are coming into November, December, January. It does get cold here from time to time. I don't want to go through some of your, what you guys do in order to stay warm in the stand. I'm going to be completely frank.

That is one of the things for me that has always been trouble less so in, in recent years, when I first got into hunting, it was more of a game of how long was it going to take for my toes to thaw out or my body to, lose that chill late, late in the season, which is probably, we talk about trying to get kids into hunting and then that's a, you get cold and miserable.

They don't ever want to go back out. That's what they remember. Anyways, so let's talk about cold season hunting and your approach to staying warm in the stand, especially if you're hunting from a tree stand, I guess would be when you're on the ground moving and stuff. That's a little different, but[00:28:00]

we're smiling. We can talk. Let's go.

It's been a kind of quest for me to, cold weather routine and that I haven't figured out is that definitely overshadow, the details. You hear so much about moisture control. Insane warm. I couldn't agree more. I prefer to use the context of elimination and not control.

I personally don't think there's a sliding scale of the moisture challenge and the problems that occur because of moisture you accumulate. We're talking about moisture that usually happens when you during activities. So you're, Tree stand hunting is active to get to the stand and then it's stationary as you sit in the stand and so you're accumulating moisture walking in, so that's moisture we're talking about, but there's no [00:29:00] sliding scale that says I'll get a little wet walking in that I'm just going to get a little cold or if I get a lot wet I'll be super cold.

I don't think it works that way. I think that, the difference when you can eliminate moisture and have literally, the equivalent of no moisture is game changing. And so Our systems are really built around that context as much as possible about, and the biggest thing, forget our clothes or our systems.

It's, if you're not freezing going in, and it's hard when you get out of the truck and trucks warm and coffee's warm and, shut the truck off and open the door and you're like, Holy cow. And first thing you want to do is, start putting clothes on and. Based on what we're talking about, that's the last thing you want to do.

And our rule of thumb is if you're not freezing when you're starting your walk in you're going to freeze when you get on stand. And so then you warm up quick, it's 100 yards and a couple hundred yards into it, your body's starting to, generate heat and moisture.

And, but we just spent a lot of time [00:30:00] managing that, that side of things. I think that's the, big. When I guess, and then a clothing on the other hand, I think a lot of people, a lot of listeners, viewers could relate to, the challenge with rubber boots and how they keep your feet warm.

Everybody loves rubber boots for scent control and waterproofness, but they, most people would agree that, your feet get cold cause your feet get wet, which goes back to what I just talked about. And, but it's not the rubber, it's the lack of breathability in the rubber. And. again, moisture. And so we also spend a lot of effort and time in designing our clothes to be as breathable as they can be.

And windproof, but there's a balance there between creating breathability, weather protection, wind resistance, slash elimination and still having breathability. And all the managed moisture. Yeah. All the managed moisture again, because it. In that scenario, it's just a typical example.

I was, I got out of, I [00:31:00] was building Sam's this weekend and put on some rubber boots because I didn't have any other shoes to wear on the way home. I put on rubber boots and wore them all the way home, a three hour drive and I get out and it's just, you literally ring out. your pant legs and your socks and it's so whether you're walking in a pair of rubber boots or a non breathable garment you will just through natural body perspiration and climate control of your body's going on you will accumulate moisture and so breathability in a state when you're stationary is as important as it is when you're walking in my opinion so I just think it's game changing when you really eliminate moisture and you go to sit there, it's, you're, you're a little bit on steroids at that point in trying to stay warmer that much farther ahead than you would be if you didn't.

I think staying dry in general, whether it's rain or sweat or whatever. That can just, it can ruin a hunt if you get wet. And it can be cold. It doesn't even have to be that cold. But next thing you know [00:32:00] it's awful. So you guys are you starting with a base layer and.

Are you doing something like merino, or is it synthetic, or both? Merino base layers are, usually start with a base layer, then a light layering piece, and then the outer. We're extreme cold conditions, that's how I layer. Yeah. We don't actually, and we don't actually have a base layer system available right now.

We will in 24. We started with the outer layer side of things, just resource wise, and it just, wasn't feasible, but we are, you can hear us talk about full garment solutions and systems. And we don't have that right now. That's phase 2. Yeah. Cool. You're freezing when you leave the truck, which when you bring that up, it's just it's the worst.

It is the absolute worst. And then you make your truck up there. Are you putting [00:33:00] all the heavy duty stuff on once you get into the stand or to the tree or and I guess I'm thinking when I walk out in the cold, I've got my bibs on because I'm because I usually wear my saddle with me on the way out.

I don't like to make a whole lot of noise at the tree. That's one of those dilemmas. Obviously I have to have something on to climb the tree. There's a lot of done you just pointed out. I, there's a scent control that it's, dragging my

thing. And so there's, I don't think there's one solution personally that says this is, paint by number to how you should do it. I think generally we, put our bibs or pants on away from the tree and then put our tops on. At the tree as you pointed out, and I think it's important, a lot of people say, oh, I'm going to put my [00:34:00] coat on after I get up in the tree.

You need to be connected at all times. So that's not always as easy as it sounds. And the challenge inside what we're talking about though is, okay I'll just put my big heavy coat on when I start to climb the tree. You're still warm, and Now you're, now you're just going to defeat the the wind that you just want on when you have accumulated moisture, now you're gonna put your heavy coat on when you're still warm and you're going to create moisture.

And so try to cool down as much as you can before you put your heavier gear on and climb the tree. Yeah, this leads into what it sounds really stupid, but this is a very simple concept and it's taking your time. I would get so frustrated when Gary, my, my husband would, he's always quick let's get there quick, and by the time I'm not in great shape compared to him, so I'm already sweating by the time we get there, wow, he's like ready to go, and it's no go your pace, but go slow don't rush in there, or at least plan ahead to where you have enough time to get into the stand without, yeah.

Sweating that [00:35:00] much and even climbing just take your time. That's, that sounds like a stupid thing, but you have no idea how much that's changed within my hunting, too, and why I also like to hunt solo a lot. But it's, just take your time. Prevent your body from overheating when you're walking in and swimming up.

I know that's easier said than done, but it's a very simple concept that goes a long way. You're right. And I'm with you. I'm sound like Gary, but it's the morning. It's let's just plow through there and we're just going to go get to the tree and then let everything calm down.

And I'm not sure that always works. Sometimes maybe, but maybe if I had a little bit more tact and tacticalness moving through there, it would help with the moisture and as well as, not blowing the woods up first thing in the morning. But All right, so with feet and hands being the big things inside of what we're doing,

feet and hands or your feet, particularly, I, I don't use electric stuff personally. I don't, I'm [00:36:00] finding them a cell phone charger most days. So it's not part of my arsenal, but it's been a lot of time changing socks out is a big part of what I do. And where even, we talked about putting bibs on.

100 yards, whatever it is, away from your tree to eliminate the scent and the disturbance that you're making as you put on your pants or your bibs or whatever that might be. But at that point I'm changing out boots a lot of times and walking in with a white pair of boots and a white pair of socks and, or a pair of almost like rubber slippers.

And then putting on heavier socks. And then my heavy boots that I'm going to wear right then too. And that's my system. Everybody has their own system. And but it's, I can do the best thing. I can do everything perfect on my body. And if my feet are You know, the weak link not going to be comfortable and might be heading home.

And I have, boys that are grown now, but I thought that, the only way you're going to take your kids hunting with you is, as you pointed out earlier, if they're comfortable and there was no,[00:37:00] they weren't going to tough it out and you'd have to deliver on that. And so I think my system is like.

Not foolproof, but it's built around if I'm going to, if I'm going to stay in the tree, my kids have to be able to stay in the tree. No, and the general idea, you have to be comfortable in the tree, whether it's you, your kids, whatever, because if you're not comfortable, then you're going to get down and if you're not in the tree, then you're certainly not going to kill anything.

Because you can't do that from your couch. You. Okay. One thing I just thought of as we were having this conversation. So we should go ahead and just patent this right now. But if we can get a bib that was allow for your I don't know, your saddle stuff to just go right through easily.

Then you can put that on over top. There you go. Oh, okay. I'm

out. We'll just cut that part out of the. Talk here. No, it's great feedback. We'll talk about it later.

There's something there, we,[00:38:00] I don't spend a lot of time in the saddle as far as hanging hunt and being mobile and setting up, setting up fresh and a lot of absolutely been living that life my whole life. So we get, we get the benefits and understand the systems not as well as we will, but I think we're very capable with the network we have and our own ingenuity that we can provide some, I don't know about solutions, but some improvements there for sure.

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. One of the things you touched on there a little bit ago was. The balance between breathability and windproof, and I think that's a very fine line. At least from my layman experience. So how do you balance something like that without giving away all your secrets? It's really common sense.

I think, we do some tests that, define what that level of air permeability is and. Peg that I think in more common terms, I've worn [00:39:00] windproof products, some of the most, prestigious ones, supposedly industry leading ones. And I would tell you, they don't do what we want them to do.

They, lean way too much on almost the, I think the way they came out way they were built was okay, a waterproof, breathable. membrane or a barrier produces X amount of breathability. So therefore, we can have a windproof one that's four times more breathable than that, and that'll be fine.

And that would be, I don't think that's the way to look at it. I think it's, it has to be as breathable as it has to be. period. And so we're looking at that. I don't care how much more or less breathable than it is of a waterproof barrier. I think that's irrelevant. I just know that if it's breathable, It's at the level we want it to be that it's game changing.

And I found this out, I hope this doesn't sound like just some guy that thinks he's smarter than everybody else. I found this out that the interesting way, and back when I was building Garmus was [00:40:00] with Cabela's and there was, this is the way you do it. You put this one proofing and that's the best.

And we're always having samples and prototypes. this one case in particularly, we didn't have the ability to use that fancy windproofing. And it was like we have to have a sample in here. At least we can see the size of the garment and the outer shell fabrics. And so we ordered all these garments in and used almost like you would like a shell of a, I think people can relate to a golf wind shirt and use that as the line as a substitute sort of temporary windproof lining.

And I had to wear those and test those and it's holy cow, is this nice, here's this really semi inexpensive barrier that was providing enough windproofness, it was providing way different levels of breathability, and it's like, why am I just following the beaten path of using so called, Temporary wind and nothing against windproof fabrics are out there.

They do their job in a [00:41:00] lot of ways. I just don't think they meet the visibility. Vision that we have awesome. I'm trying to think. Is there anything else that we're missing? And the thing, this is your platform. Go ahead. Hit it. If you want, and again, this is, I think it's in principle it's beneficial for people to think this way.

We talk about moisture control, we talk about readability, using air to insulate is still and Jamie touched on this on the layering comments. In your mid layer air is still the very best insulator that we know and, dating myself here a little bit, but I'm sure there's some listeners that would remember the what they call the Mickey Mouse boots.

You know what I'm talking about Andrew? No. They they're still around. You can find them on eBay and stuff, but they were air force issue Alaskan air force issue boots that were built for the airmen that had to be in, planes in [00:42:00] 40, 50 below zero. And they have a pressure about, they're just big rubber giant boots, like that's where they got the name, Mickey mouse boots and way bigger on the bottom and then thin ankles.

They have an air pressure valve because of the heights that the airmen were at. They had different, pressure scenarios that were under. But that boot is, it doesn't have any insulation in it. If you cut it in half, it has nothing but a big giant air bladder in it. It is still by old school standards and a lot of People that, swear that are out there trying to stay warm and 50 below zero, the best warm weather or cold weather booth has ever been made.

We're solely on air. And that same principle is still true. It's, we're, it's a storm window. You put one window up. It has X amount of thermal efficiency. You put another window, glass window in front of that because of the air barrier, it's 40 times more efficient strictly because of that air barrier.

And so we [00:43:00] embody that with our clothing philosophies. And people should think about that in terms of how they layer and high loft. That's why down works. That's why high loft installations work. It's not necessarily the fiber involved. It's more of the loft that.

fiber provides of air and so we embody that in our clothing lines. I mean our coldest weather piece, which I just happened to have right here. No, this is our five. This is a, this is our cold fall series. It's our coldest. And again, being true that I won't be an infomercial. This has five layers in it.

It has a compressed insulation. It has a full loft insulation. It has a wind barrier, it has an interior lining that has an exterior shell, so it has five layers. But more importantly, it has four air layers between those five layers, and so it's a little bit of a layer, layering within a layer, if you will but, going back to the context of trying to save, using air to insulate is still a [00:44:00] necessity when you're trying to stay warm in cold weather.

Yeah, no, I think if you control moisture. And you breathe and you have breathable clothes that will not allow you to, or will maintain that lack of moisture where you're sitting and while stopping the wind. And you use air to insulate you are cheating. Yeah. No I can't agree more with you.

And I'll be honest, I was looking at your website the clothes look exceptionally cozy. So I don't know the marketing side of things. I'm like, man. That looks like you're sitting on the couch. If you're wearing that out on the woods, but like you said, the moisture part, if you're soaking wet underneath, it probably is still not going to be super comfortable.

So slow down. That's what we learned there. And you're at the ascent into the woods. That's step 1, but where. Website and where to follow you guys on social media and stuff.

Awesome. I appreciate you guys coming on today and give us a little insight on [00:45:00] Nebraska and staying warm and yeah, absolutely. As you can tell why it's been we're going to keep expanding and keep doing what we

did. Good. Looking forward to that. So good luck this season and get out in the woods. So thanks guys. Yep.