Taxidermy & The Michigan U.P.

In this engaging conversation, Dan Johnson interviews Bo Brew, a taxidermist from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. They discuss the unique culture of the UP, including local foods like pasties, the significance of deer hunting, and the impact of predators like wolves on deer populations. Bo shares insights on hunting pressure, the rut experience, and strategies for late-season hunting. The conversation also touches on the rising costs of taxidermy and personal anecdotes about family life. In this conversation, Bo Brew and Dan Johnson discuss their experiences with childhood divorce, the evolution of co-parenting, and the bonding moments through hunting with their children. They reflect on the swift passage of time as their kids grow up, leading to mid-life reflections. The discussion transitions into Bo's taxidermy business, exploring the challenges of running a small business, managing client expectations, and the importance of guiding first-time clients through the taxidermy process. They also touch on popular outdoor activities in the Upper Peninsula, particularly ice fishing.

Takeaways:

• The UP is known for its unique culture and local foods like pasties.
• Deer hunting is a significant tradition in the UP, especially around November 15th.
• The rut experience can vary, but cold fronts and snow generally improve deer movement.
• Predators like wolves have a noticeable impact on deer populations in the UP.
• Hunting pressure has decreased over the years, with fewer hunters in the woods.
• Taxidermy provides insights into hunting success and trends in deer sizes.
• Late-season hunting strategies often involve scouting and baiting.
• The cost of taxidermy has increased significantly in recent years.
• Cultural differences exist between the UP and southern Michigan, especially in sports loyalties.
• Personal stories about family life can add depth to the hunting experience. Divorce impacts children differently based on their age.
• Co-parenting has become more normalized in recent years.
• Hunting serves as a bonding activity between parents and children.
• Growing up brings changes in parent-child relationships.
• Mid-life reflections often lead to reassessing priorities.
• Running a taxidermy business comes with unique challenges.
• Client education is crucial in the taxidermy process.
• Managing expectations is key to client satisfaction.
• Realistic expectations for taxidermy can prevent disappointment.
• Outdoor activities like ice fishing are popular in the U.P.

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Dan Johnson (00:00.229)
Alright ladies and gentlemen, I hope you're ready for a good old-fashioned BS session like most of them are turning into these days but today I got from the UP of Michigan. I've only had a couple guys up there who've been on the podcast that are UP certified I'll say and today's guest Mr. Bo Brew is just that. Bo, how we doing man?

BO BREW (00:25.579)
Pretty good, how are you doing Dan?

Dan Johnson (00:27.421)
I'm doing good, man, doing good. Whereabouts in the UP are you located?

BO BREW (00:33.492)
I'm in South Central UP.

Dan Johnson (00:36.092)
Okay, South Central UP. And how far are you from the lake?

BO BREW (00:40.908)
Quite a ways, I'm probably an hour from the lake. I'm probably about an hour west of Escanaba.

Dan Johnson (00:49.486)
Okay. All right. Very famous movie came out of there, right? What's that? How do you say it? Esca bonza and the moonlight or whatever.

BO BREW (00:57.225)
Yep, that's gonna happen in the moonlight.

Dan Johnson (00:59.313)
There you go. There you go. And that's a deer hunting film, right? Yep. There you go.

BO BREW (01:02.793)
Yep. And like November 15th is like a national holiday up here.

Dan Johnson (01:07.652)
And so everybody watches that movie at every deer camp every year.

BO BREW (01:11.945)
Yep, and rifle season opens November 15th every year in Michigan, so that's like the night before rifle season movie.

Dan Johnson (01:18.908)
Gotcha. All right. All right. How long have you been living in the U.P.?

BO BREW (01:23.752)
Born and raised here. I moved away for one year in 2013, but other than that I've been here for 29 years.

Dan Johnson (01:29.667)
Okay, and it looks like you're into some taxidermy which we'll get into here in a little bit but Let's talk about things that are popular in the up of Michigan that may not be popular in the southern part of Michigan any any of those types of whether it's food or activities or I don't know just something that is different. What's the difference between the up and the southern part of Michigan in the mitten?

BO BREW (02:00.048)
I don't know, UP's real famous for like the pasties. You come up here, everyone wants a pasty where you go down below the bridge and they don't really know what a pasty is.

Dan Johnson (02:09.627)
What is opacity?

BO BREW (02:10.901)
Pasties like, it has like crust all the way around it, then it's filled with ground beef, potatoes and carrots, sometimes rutabaga, onions. It's all filled in the one.

Dan Johnson (02:22.608)
Gotcha, so it's like a calzone or like a hot pocket? Okay, all right, all are they good? Yeah, yeah. So does every restaurant in the UP have a pasty or a pasty or whatever you call them?

BO BREW (02:25.79)
Yeah, almost, yes, correct.

they're good.

BO BREW (02:39.85)
Not really. It seems to be dying more now recently, but like when I was younger that used to be like, it seemed like that was the thing, but it doesn't seem like it's as big a thing as it used to be.

Dan Johnson (02:50.896)
Yeah, I gotcha. And so when you're in the UP, here's the question. Do you root for the Packers or do you root for the Detroit Lions?

BO BREW (03:02.057)
I think if you're in the western and southern part of the UP, you're rooting for the Packers, but if you're in the eastern part of the UP, you're probably rooting for the Lions.

Dan Johnson (03:12.592)
Gotcha. So there is a line somewhere in there where the, you start to have, I don't know, you start to split people up as far as what teams that they, they go for just basically off location alone.

BO BREW (03:28.122)
Yeah, and there's a lot of bickering because sometimes they'll put the national TV games for the Packers on and then sometimes we'll get the national games for the Lions and a lot of people want the Packer games but then some people want the Lions games. And I'm like 10 minutes from the border so a lot of times we get the Packer games but then there's people bitching they want the Lions games.

Dan Johnson (03:45.423)
There you go. Now, let me ask you this. What college out of Michigan being from the UP do you cheer for?

BO BREW (03:51.52)
A lot of people at U of a lot of people like the University of Michigan.

Dan Johnson (03:55.972)
Okay, University of Michigan, regardless of where you live in the state.

BO BREW (03:59.78)
Seems like it, yeah. It seems like not as many people swing Wisconsin as they do with the Packers. You know, in college they'll go Michigan, but then with NFL they'll go Packers.

Dan Johnson (04:04.889)
Gotcha. Okay.

Dan Johnson (04:09.957)
Gotcha. Okay. All right. Anything else? What's the temperature up in the UP right now?

BO BREW (04:16.004)
We just got a real good cold spurt. I've been hunting the last few days. It was warm on Monday and Tuesday, but then yesterday it cooled down about 20 degrees. Now today is real cold. This morning was one degree with a real feel of negative 18.

Dan Johnson (04:31.535)
That's cold. Yeah, we're in a big temperature drop here in Iowa too. And the kids and my wife, everybody was complaining, it's so cold. It's so cold. I'm like, you guys, it's this cold every year. It's the same every year. Yeah, it's going to warm up a little bit. then people, my favorite is the people who act like this cold weather is a surprise after living in the state for 50 years, 60 years. my God, it's never been this cold before.

Actually, dude, it has been this cold before and you can just go back and you can look at weather, you know, weather information and you'll see you bitch, you just like to bitch. think that's, I think that's just people in general. They just love to bitch.

BO BREW (05:16.596)
Yeah, last year was probably the first year of my whole life I barely got any snow up here. Last year we only got a couple inches of snow and we had a real mild winter but I think it led to a real good year for deer up here. I've seen a lot of the country didn't have a great year for deer but this is one of the best years I've seen up here.

Dan Johnson (05:26.948)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (05:31.971)
Okay, that's a great crossover conversation because, you know, I don't want to beat this horse to death, but everybody that I talked to within the Midwest and what I mean Midwest, I mean from like the Plains States to the Atlantic coast. I don't think the guys in the South were affected by it near as much. Don't know why. Northeast for sure. But everybody's bitching about how

bad the rut was this year. What was your rut experience?

BO BREW (06:04.868)
The rut was real. I didn't get to hunt much of the rut because I was taking in so many heads. I kept getting calls and it was hard. This is the least I got to hunt in a while, at least during the rut because I was so busy. But it seemed like the rut was really good. I took in a ton of deer during that time. probably just in that phase from November 10th to November 25th, I at least took in 30 shoulder mounts in that time. And it was a good rut.

Dan Johnson (06:31.448)
Yeah, so you were busy, but for you, what makes a good rut up there in the UP?

BO BREW (06:39.789)
Seems like if we get a good cold, cold front like anywhere and then if we get a little bit of snow too mixed in with it that really seems to help. And this year we only got like a little dusting on the first or two days but it was cold. And if you mix that, the rot with the cold front obviously it gets better.

Dan Johnson (06:58.008)
Yeah, what about deer movement in general? Did you see more than average then?

BO BREW (07:03.133)
It seemed like it, and we seemed like we had bigger nicer bucks this year too, because I think the mild winter, because we have a big predator problem up here, because we're linked with lower Michigan, and it seems like they won't put on a wolf hunt up here, and we have a big wolf problem. In the last few years, our deer herds been dwindling and dwindling, but I think with the mild winter last year, there wasn't as much snow, so the deer could get away a little bit better. So we had a lot less winter kill, I believe, which led to a better fall.

Dan Johnson (07:30.872)
Yeah. Yeah. All right. So this, this is kind of a good topic. wolves, right? You hear people bitching about predators a lot. Like when I, whenever I go out to Nebraska, everybody I talked to says mountain lions in Western Nebraska, or, know, out in the, I don't know, you name an, a Western species and then, well, mountain lions are getting to them this year. Bears are getting to them or whatever the case is. Is it just bitching?

Or has there been like a very noticeable adjustment to the deer herd, the deer numbers, deer behavior when you have a species like a wolf on the landscape?

BO BREW (08:15.648)
Yeah, I believe so and I've been running at least 30 trail cameras since 2018 and I used to have them all over. I do it all on public land up here and I used to have trail cameras all over public land and it'd be like I would have 30 cameras. I'll go pull them in the spring and it'd be cool if I found one pit or one camera that had a picture of a wolf. I was like, cool. Here's a picture of a wolf. Now I'm happy if I pull all my cameras and one or two cameras doesn't have a picture of a wolf on it.

And it just seems like since like no wolf hunt, it seems like the wolf, the wolf population just keeps going higher and higher. And that that's bringing down our deer population.

Dan Johnson (08:43.215)
Gotcha.

Dan Johnson (08:52.866)
Yeah. Well, I mean, it makes sense, right? I think the people in Colorado who or I can't remember if it's Wyoming or Colorado. think it's Colorado introduced some wolves and the people have definitely seen the impact on not only elk herds, but livestock as well. And they're not they, you know, they're obviously not happy, but the people who make the decisions don't live in the area, right? They're not they're not affected by that decision. So it's

It's always strange. do you hear other hunters saying they've had encounters with wolves or, like you shoot a deer and before you even get to it, it's eaten up or anything like that.

BO BREW (09:35.602)
There's a ton of that, there's a ton of that and I follow like this Facebook page, it's like UP trail cameras and before it used to, like I said, it used to be like people would be excited to get a picture of a Now it seems like people are even seeing them like closer to the towns, they're seeing them on roads. If you don't get your deer that night most of the time, the next morning it's either ate by coyotes or wolves because we have a good amount of coyotes too. So if the coyotes don't get it, the wolves are going to get it. So it's definitely a major issue.

Dan Johnson (09:59.395)
Yeah.

Yeah, especially where, well, let me just ask you, what's the terrain like up there? I mean, are we talking the typical big northern pine forests?

BO BREW (10:13.915)
And a lot of cedar swamps, a lot of swamp land. not a ton of, at least in the southern central part where I am, there isn't a ton of topography change. So it's pretty relatively flat. And it'll go into a lot of clear cuts, like select cut, and then a lot of cedar swamps, and then big woods.

Dan Johnson (10:32.141)
Yeah, yeah. And not a lot of terrain. I mean, is the cover, is it thick cover in there or is it kind of wide open as far as covers concerned?

BO BREW (10:45.148)
Both. Like last night I was hunting on the edge of like an old clear cut, probably a two year old clear cut, where the deer that I was hunting was coming from was coming out of a cedar swamp. And I've been debating going in there to cut him off. But once you get in that cedar swamp where he is, it's so thick that you're only seeing 15, 20 yards, if that. And we have muzzleloader season here, the 6th through the 16th this year. So I'm out with the muzzleloader right now. It's like, do I really go in that swamp with the muzzleloader and I only can see 15, 20 yards?

Dan Johnson (11:15.16)
Yeah, that's tough. That's tough. So the UP has never been really known as, maybe I'm wrong, has never really been known for great, like the best deer hunting, right? Obviously, wherever people are, they find ways to hunt that environment. But then you have the...

BO BREW (11:28.188)
no.

Dan Johnson (11:38.148)
you know, unique deer herd, I'll say, to hunt. And then you have predators and probably good pressure from other hunters.

BO BREW (11:46.578)
Correct. That's that's what did me in last night. I usually this is the time of the year I usually capitalize because I'm getting the least amount of calls from taxidermy So I finally can get out in the woods and it seems like there's less people in the woods this time of the year Because it's getting so cold Everyone hunts a little bit of the week or two before bow season. Everyone hammers rifle season It's like the Orange Army, but then after Thanksgiving, it seems like the the land real dies So like there isn't as much people out there. But then last night too, I ran

all public land everywhere and I come home and there's a guy right on top of me. So and I thought that this is usually why I like this time of year because there's no one out there.

Dan Johnson (12:19.778)
You

Dan Johnson (12:25.39)
Yeah. What's, talk to me a little bit about hunting pressure in the UP. I mean, is it just, is it like the worst possible pressure? I mean, you hear, you hear guys again, and you always got to try to balance this. Is he just bitching or is it, it truth? Right? What is pressure, deer hunting pressure in the UP like?

BO BREW (12:52.654)
During both season, it's like I would say the average pressure you'd get anywhere on public land, but you hit rifle season and you're driving through public land and it's just orange dots everywhere. mean people sitting on top of hills with lawn chairs and full orange suits and like right that first week of rifle season it is the legit the orange army. But it seems like it's got better though since I was a kid. Like I remember sitting on my old camp and opening day you'd see 30, 40 cars drive by.

Now, like last year, there was only like 10, 12 cars. It definitely seems like there is less hunters than there used to be. It used to be like a national holiday when I was younger, but it doesn't seem like it's as big as it used to be.

Dan Johnson (13:34.49)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you got it. You got to like there comes a breaking point. I've been to that breaking point on some of the properties, never really on public. mean, I've had it happen on public, but, you know, Iowa is a pretty much a private land state. We don't have a ton of public hunting here in Iowa. You know, we're 98 percent over 98 percent private ground. And so I've had that.

before where I've had guys come in on me that we've shared properties with and just kind of, you get to a breaking point where you're just like, can't, like I can't hunt this property anymore. I mean, are you, are a lot of people within the circle of guys that you run in with or are you seeing guys drop off every year because of the pressure and just too many hunters?

BO BREW (14:30.199)
I don't think it's really the pressure. think it's more or less a lot of the older hunters are dying off and there isn't, I mean there's a lot of young hunters out there too, but it doesn't, I don't think it is like it was 20, 30 years ago where everyone in their family hunted. Now it's like only the real serious young people hunt. And then I think we're getting less and less hunters every year because the people are getting older.

Dan Johnson (14:43.801)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (14:51.342)
Yeah, yeah, that's that's probably a big part of it. And my gut tells me access to right. Like, you know, you watch a film or, know, the younger generation, they go to YouTube, they watch a film, they go, God, I want to go shoot a big buck. And then they go to try to shoot a big buck. And it's not as easy as they think. So everybody's looking for different ways to access deer. And and I think access plays a huge role in this conversation as well. But

BO BREW (14:58.33)
yeah.

Dan Johnson (15:21.69)
Yeah, I don't know, man. It's what are what are some of as a taxidermist, right? You get people coming in to your shop and they have a success story to tell usually. But what what are some of the themes from this year? The stories and some of the deer that have come in. What are some of the themes that you've heard from hunters about how the year has been this year?

BO BREW (15:46.583)
Well if you're gonna get a real big one it seemed like the theme was hit it early like especially Wisconsin if you if you're the because I'm only ten minutes from Wisconsin some of the biggest bucks I took in you got to hit it that the Wisconsin open what September 14th September 15th if you can catch a buck on a summer pattern there then it seems like that that's when I took in some of the biggest ones was that time and then a lot of the other bigger bucks I took in were during the rut and it seems like guys that really don't know a ton about hunting but they just get like that rut luck

where there is someone there and then it's just the right time of year with right with rifle season the rut and a lot of guys just get lucky that time of year.

Dan Johnson (16:17.315)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (16:25.754)
Yeah. So what are you doing now after the rut is kind of over, the rifle seasons are over, how do you go back into the cedar swamps and pine stands and little topography like you mentioned and try to find a deer to be successful on?

BO BREW (16:46.4)
Well during like bow season I'll have a bunch of cameras set up a lot of them will be on mock scrapes or like crick crossings and then I'll usually in the UP you can bait which is not a popular thing but I'll usually run one bait pile I never usually hunt over it but I'll have that in the center and have cameras around it if I know there's a big buck in the area trying to pattern him and I'll try to cut him off coming to that and then during rifle season I play a lot off the pressure like

The first hour of daylight I'll go to a power line or a clear cut, get in the middle of it, hopefully someone flushes something out to me, that's how I killed my buck last year. And then during noon during rifle season, I'll go in somewhere like a power line or a clear cut, sit there, and hopefully someone pushes something out, and then the last hour before dark I'll do the same thing. And then the rest of the time during rifle season, I'll just walk around and do in-season scouting. That's when I do a ton of my scouting during rifle

This I hunt that first hour off the pressure, the middle of the day off the pressure, the last hour of the day off the pressure, then the rest of the time during rifle season. I'm just doing in season scouting, trying to figure out what the deer are doing during the season, especially if we have snow. And then it'll be kind of unpopular opinion, but then once it hits muzzleloader, the last week of rifle, I'll go out and I'll throw out like five, six bait piles all over a few different counties or all over the county.

and I tried to find one buck that made it through rifle season. Not to hunt over the pile, just, I just throw out those piles just to see if I can get a deer coming in that made it through the rifle season. And that's what I did. This deer showed up on December 2nd on one of the bait piles. I shut down all the other bait piles and now I'm trying to cut them off going to that bait pile coming out of that cedar swamp. And that's how I'll try to find a survivor after rifle season.

Dan Johnson (18:39.693)
Gotcha. And so you can bait in Michigan.

BO BREW (18:43.337)
Only and I don't think in the you can't bait in lower Michigan, but you can bait I think in almost every County in the UP

Dan Johnson (18:50.137)
Okay, did not know that. That's good to know.

BO BREW (18:52.233)
Yeah. And I've never killed any of my deer or any of my nice deer over the bait, but it's a good inventory thing, especially like after rifle season. Because I had like four or five bucks, I was after only one of them made it through the rifle season. And I threw out a bunch of bait piles to see if any of them made it. Once a shooter shows up at a bait pile, then I try to figure out where he's coming from, cut him off and kill him here in late season. Try to capitalize on a cold front. Hopefully tonight's the night.

Dan Johnson (19:20.515)
Yeah, yeah, so you're heading out tonight then? Yeah.

BO BREW (19:22.74)
yeah, I should have had him last night. came right at dark, but it was so dark. was shooting light landed at 442 and I seen him at 445. Just a glimpse of him in the swamp.

Dan Johnson (19:34.071)
Yeah. What's a good representation of a good buck up in the UP?

BO BREW (19:43.156)
It's some. Most of my average UP shoulder mounts are 95 inches to 105 inches. And if you kill one 110 to 120, that's a real good buck. You kill one over 120, it's like boon and crock at somewhere else. I've been doing taxidermy here for four or five years, and I think I've only scored 15 bucks over 120 from the UP.

So like my, like I said, my average shoulder mount, you shoot a hundred inch buck up here, your shoulder mount in it.

Dan Johnson (20:15.327)
wow. So if someone comes up there and shoots a 120 inch deer, people are starting to talk about it in town and they're driving around and showing it out of the back of their truck and everything.

BO BREW (20:28.027)
yeah, two years ago I killed one 127 and that was the biggest buck I took in that year and everyone and their brother was trying to figure out where I got that deer. It was a story for a month. like I said, you should want a one, if you shoot a pulp and young buck in the UP, it's like booting Crockett somewhere else.

Dan Johnson (20:47.418)
Yeah, yeah, that's and that's the crazy. It's absolutely crazy how there are the discrepancies and of where a whitetail can live of, and their antler growth and things like that. You know, I'm down here in Iowa and you know, this isn't to be arrogant, but you know, you don't even look at something that's 120 inches, where, you know,

BO BREW (21:12.018)
I buy capes off of Taxidermist in Iowa and I went down there the first time I met him and he had a huge set of horns in his shop and I'm like what are all those? He goes those are going on plaques. I'm like he goes that's why I have so many extra capes for you. He if they're not 160 or more they're getting screwed onto a plaque and it's so I come down there and get nice capes because if they ain't 160 they're not shoulder mounted.

Dan Johnson (21:33.943)
Right, right. That's nuts, man. That's not this will be the first year in 10 years. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'll take that back since 16, eight years. So I've been on a streak eight years with eight, you know, eight shoulder what I felt are eight shoulder mountable deer. This year didn't happen. I didn't get the job done in Iowa and I doubt I am going to be able to get out. I hope I do for the muzzleloader season. It just isn't looking like it right now. But.

Dude, shoulder mounts are getting expensive. mean, well, I just talked with a taxidermist down in Iowa who I brought my Kansas buck to do a quick Euro mount of, and he said, I think he's charging like $800 for one now.

BO BREW (22:08.494)
Yeah, what are you paying down there? What's the average you think?

BO BREW (22:28.976)
Yeah, up here it's like 650 to 700, 750, somewhere in that area.

Dan Johnson (22:34.009)
Yep. Yep. And depending on how much experience you have or what kind of work you, know, who your clientele is, you can charge a little bit less, a little bit more to get it out earlier or, or I don't know what, how, how you guys do that, but it's just blows my mind that I can remember my very first deer I mounted back in 2012, I believe it was, I paid $225 for it.

fully mounted.

BO BREW (23:04.431)
Even before I was a taxidermist, the last year was in 2018. I got two shoulder moments that year and even in 2018 it was only 500 bucks. Just in the last few years, everything in the last few years has really went up.

Dan Johnson (23:18.393)
everything. Yeah. I'm sitting on like every time I get a bill in the mail, like this year has been crazy for my family. We've unfortunately had to go visit doctors quite a bit this year. And the amount of bill like medical bills that we have sitting on our counter that we've had to put like payment plans on or pay off and things like that is ridiculous. I thought I had insurance. I thought me and the wife had insurance. We do.

But it's just, holy shit, it's not enough.

BO BREW (23:50.485)
no, and once you deductible, know, three grand, four grand, you're still paying a full deductible, if not more. And then on top of that, you've still got to pay a percentage after that. Because I have a nine year old and a five year old daughter too that I get every other week.

Dan Johnson (24:00.159)
Yep.

Dan Johnson (24:04.416)
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy, man. That's crazy. so you got you got some kids,

BO BREW (24:09.847)
Yeah, I got a nine-year-old, she's about to turn 10, Callie, and then I got a five-year-old, she'll be six in March, and I get them every other week.

Dan Johnson (24:18.393)
Okay, all right, little, hey, I went through that. I went through a really complicated schedule when my parents got divorced. It was crazy. Let's see if I can remember it. Monday I'm with my mom. Tuesday I'm with my dad. Wednesday I'm with my mom. They of course lived in the same town. Thursday I'm with my mom. Every other Friday rotated. Friday night rotated. Saturday I'm with my dad.

And then Sunday after church, if I was on my mom's on Friday night, I would go with my dad on Sunday and then flip it. And then Sunday night I would be with my dad and then start the whole process over again. So, and then shit, we were losing clothes all the time. Like, like I don't have any underwear. It's all at your mom's or it's all like, it's like, it was, it was fricking complicated, but they got through it and it worked and

It was, don't know. Kids of divorced parents have unique stories to tell. I'm sure. So.

BO BREW (25:23.18)
Yeah. How old were you when you went to when they divorced?

Dan Johnson (25:27.993)
Okay, so that would have been the summer after my second grade year and when I was I Was still pretty young but for some reason I knew what divorce meant You know what? I mean like I knew I knew that mom and dad weren't living together and that you know that that fucked me up for a little bit but my brother he was so yeah, he was still like five or something and he You know, he was younger than that. He didn't understand. He didn't know what was going on. So he didn't have to really

BO BREW (25:33.292)
Okay, so you're still pretty young.

BO BREW (25:42.378)
Yo.

Dan Johnson (25:57.974)
go through that but i did

BO BREW (25:58.122)
Yeah, that's kind of what happened with my kids. Like, I split when my one kid was four, the other kid was still like a couple months old. So it's like all they really know is every other weekend, moms and dads. So it's just almost normal to them. And back like in your time, it was a lot different if parents split, it was a lot less normal. Now it seems like there's a lot more co-parenting and like split parents nowadays. And it's a lot more normal nowadays. Like back then if your parents split, was a lot more, you know, worse it seemed like. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (26:12.884)
yeah.

Dan Johnson (26:21.098)
yeah.

It was news. Yeah, it was definitely news. My grandma, when she found out, I thought she was going to die. Like she was like having chest pains and my God, Jesus Christ. I'm like, holy shit, this is serious. So that was the nineties and eighties, things like that. So, well, cool, man. Your kids, they, they like hunting.

BO BREW (26:49.865)
yeah, that's all they want to do is they're asking me can I go hunting and then like they're always down here helping me in my taxidermy shop asking about deer, asking about the trail cameras, can I see the cell camera apps, especially the older one. The younger one, she's only five, she really doesn't, but she still likes like watching the hunting shows I'm watching and stuff. But the nine year old that's about to be 10, she's like, I think I'm gonna get her a compound bowl this year. like she, when can I go in the tree with dad, everything.

Dan Johnson (27:16.44)
She's ready.

She's ready to go. That's awesome, man. That's awesome.

BO BREW (27:20.123)
EW

But I heard you talking on another podcast there with Antlered Outdoors and how you're like, now my little girl is getting to the age where she doesn't want to be like daddy's little girl. I'm like on the verge of that. And it's like, I don't want her. Like she's about to be 10. And I just want to keep her like my little girl.

Dan Johnson (27:32.911)
yeah.

Dan Johnson (27:36.327)
hahahaha

I do. That's the truth. That's the truth. She's my daughter is getting to the stage where she is still obviously a child, but once so badly to be independent. and with her phone and talking to, you know, she is now instead of give like giving me hugs. When I go to give her a hug, she'll kind of like, ew, gross, get away from me. You're, know, you're embarrassing me and things like that. She used to be that kid who would come up, give me a big hug.

Preschool like there's nothing better when then when you go to pick a kindergartener or preschooler up from school And they they are so freaking excited to see you they'll run into your arms and you're like, I am I'm the greatest because of that feeling and now my daughter she looks at me like I have the plague she doesn't want anything to do with me right now, which I mean she still will snuggle up with me every once in a while still but I don't know man. I miss

BO BREW (28:16.453)
Yeah.

BO BREW (28:29.042)
Yo.

Dan Johnson (28:39.99)
It's just life. I can't believe how fast life is going right now.

BO BREW (28:41.69)
Yeah.

That's what I was gonna say. It's crazy how fast it goes. Like my kids are, like I said, about nine and five and I wish they would just stay this age forever because it's like perfect right now. The one's nine, 10 years old, she's pretty independent but she's still like daddy's girl and then the little kindergartener, like you said, I get her off the bus, she comes running happier and hell. Like it's perfect ages but everything, it goes so fast.

Dan Johnson (29:07.075)
man, I almost got emotional the other day. Every once in a while when I find a loose picture just around the house, it's a picture of the kids or something that happened a long time ago, if it's one of the kids, I'll take it up and I'll put it on the backside of a cupboard door. So when you open it up to get glasses, you can see all these pictures. Well, I got a picture of my daughter in a car seat sleeping when she was like, man.

nine months, six months, something like that, somewhere around there. And I about had a breakdown. I'm just like, holy cow. It's crazy. I'm 40, I'm 44 years old. And I'll tell you this right now. I think about, I'm starting to have those thoughts like, my life is half over. Like I'm having those mid-life crisis thoughts. And it blows my mind. It's like, okay.

BO BREW (29:57.498)
Yep.

Dan Johnson (30:05.368)
Now is the time where you have to figure out what is important for you. And you got to double down on that because, know, I don't know, man. don't, it's just, it's, yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. 30, 30 for me was a weird, I shot on November 5th, 2010, my 30th birthday, I shot a 200 and

BO BREW (30:15.814)
I through that. I just turned 30 too, so it was like, I'm 30 now, you know what mean?

Dan Johnson (30:34.743)
10 inch buck that I never, that I didn't kill and was killed the next year on a neighboring farm. so, yep, November 5th. All right. Hey, you share a birthday with my stepdad, dude. There you go. November's a good year. November, or November's a good year. November's a good month for birthdays.

BO BREW (30:40.9)
Your birthday is November 5th? Mine's November 3rd.

BO BREW (30:57.103)
Yeah, especially because I love they break during the rut. That's how I'm always in the tree this year. I was in Southwest Wisconsin. Yep, Southwest Wisconsin for my birthday.

Dan Johnson (31:01.513)
I'm always in the tree. Yep. Yep. I don't know the last. I don't know the last time I actually spent a birthday with any family. It's been other than my dad this year or maybe with my mom and my stepdad because I'm down there hunting. But usually it's spent morning in a tree stand. Come back, take a nap afternoon in a tree stand and then have a good meal. And then then it's just another day at that point.

BO BREW (31:11.385)
Yeah.

BO BREW (31:26.872)
Have you ever killed an ice buck? I've never killed an ice buck on my birthday and I want to, but...

Dan Johnson (31:32.279)
I, I'll even go one step further. I have never killed a deer on my birthday.

BO BREW (31:37.986)
Yeah, I don't think I have either. No, I have never killed a deer on my birthday either.

Dan Johnson (31:42.197)
Yeah. so this year I, so every year, November 5th, I go into my best possible spot and I'm trying, I'm trying to stack the cards in my favor big time and I'm trying to get in on a, in on a big, a big buck. But for some reason it just never, never happens. I don't know. Maybe it's, maybe it's karma. Maybe, I don't know if you, if people believe in that shit, but

This kind of conversation makes me want to ask you about your business, right? Do you do anything else other than taxidermy or are you full full-time taxidermist?

BO BREW (32:21.794)
I work during deer season, it's only one day a week. I work at Dunham Sports. I don't know if you guys got some of them down in Iowa. And then the rest of the nine months of the year, I work a couple days, Thursday and Saturday at Dunham Sports. But I just do that a little bit part time, work at the gun counter there. And then the rest of the time, just taxidermy. And the reason I have that too is I can kind of fall, if I ever got slower or anything, I could fall back and pick up more hours if I needed to.

Dan Johnson (32:27.584)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (32:40.95)
Gotcha.

Dan Johnson (32:46.965)
Yeah, yeah, that that's that. That's a great idea, right, is to have that. That's something that I don't have. And the older the older I get and the older my kids get and the more that we, you know, like inflation is going up and I got those bills and and things like that. I don't I personally don't have any fallback right now. Like I'm I'm just full blown into my business, but.

or a couple of my businesses, but there's always that thought being an entrepreneur or owning your own business in the back of your head that is like, what if? What if the checks stop coming in? What if something happens and I don't know, Instagram bans hunting content or YouTube bans hunting content or shit, Spotify or Apple podcasts ban what I do. Dude, I'm screwed. I would be screwed.

BO BREW (33:25.6)
Yeah.

BO BREW (33:40.372)
Yeah, I feel the same way. This year, last year was my first year I went full time with the taxidermy, went down to my part time job and I only took in 32 shoulder mounts and since I graduated in 2013, it was my first year full time last year but it was the poorest year of my life since I graduated. I barely made it. It was not good. Barely made it through. But then this year, I always told everyone I would never be more than a year out with deer. And last year I did 32 shoulder mounts in nine months.

And now this year I have like 63 and I have two more coming today. And now I'm like 15, 16 months out, but there's always, I took in more than a year's worth because there's always that thought, what if next year there isn't, it isn't a good year. I'm year to year. Like if I'd only taken a ton of deer in the fall, I could be screwed for the next year.

Dan Johnson (34:27.863)
Yeah. So you took in 63 at 12 or over 12 months to get your time back. How many on average heads do you put out? Do you start and finish in a week?

BO BREW (34:41.385)
I usually do, last year I was doing four to five a month, and now this year I'm hoping I can do five to six a month. So I do at least one a week.

Dan Johnson (34:50.697)
One a week, okay. All right. Yeah, yeah. That's, that seems like, and you're a one man show, right? Do you do your tanning?

BO BREW (34:51.751)
at least.

BO BREW (34:58.963)
Yeah, no health is working. Yep, do my in-house tanning for the deer capes and everything and I'm only doing deer. So like, that's all I got in it's a one man show.

Dan Johnson (35:10.133)
Yeah. Yeah. but I'll tell you what, when you're busy like that, it is, I don't know when you, when you're busy like that, there's comfort in it. But what I do in this digital world, there's times where I'm not busy and I'm like, well, should I be busy? Is this, you know, do I take this, this opportunity to catch my breath or do I find something else to do and keep pushing and, and, go, I don't know, like.

go a different direction. So for me, I'm, I'm, dude, I'm, I don't know. I'm probably more of, I probably worry more than I need to, but I got three kids. And so who, like maybe I'm worrying the right amount. I don't know. And it fricking blows my mind.

BO BREW (35:52.137)
Yeah. I try to think about it. The less I think about it, the better.

Dan Johnson (35:57.84)
Yeah, right. Yeah, right until like for me, that's what I say. Okay. Well, the less I think about it the better but then what happens if something am I prepared? Right. Am I'm always thinking am I prepared for worst case scenario? So I don't know dude Six so you took in 63 heads How do you like what's when someone comes in and they don't know what to do? Like how do you coach someone through?

BO BREW (36:07.944)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (36:26.901)
getting a shoulder mount. What's that? What's that look like?

BO BREW (36:29.918)
Usually they'll text me and if it seems like they're like a first or caller text me and if they're like a first time like shoulder mount getter I'll send them I have like three pictures that shows them like how the cape it It's like pictures where like the tape goes on the deer where it shows you exactly how to cape it Then they come drop it off. I have them give me 200 down then I'll bring them over to the poster and I'll ask them Do you want an upright a semi upright a semi sneak or a full sneak and they'll look at those try to decide once they pick those

I'll ask him, do you want it if you're riding it like a horse, do you want to go on left, straight or right? And then they'll pick left turn straight or right. And then the last thing I ask him, like, how do you want your ears done? Do you want ears forward, ears back, one ear forward, one ear back? And I kind of, lot of taxidermists don't do that. try, I like switching up, doing different forms. I like doing the ears different every time. I try to like give people options of, of some different, like the taxidermist I went to in 2018, he was, I won't do any left or straights.

I won't do any full sneaks, you're getting a semi upright left turn, right turn, or ears forward. I like doing different mounts all the time.

Dan Johnson (37:36.81)
Yeah, yeah, I can see how that would kind of get boring if you're only doing the same mount every time, but at least you'd be able to probably get them out the door faster.

BO BREW (37:46.032)
Yeah, I think that's like what that, like, they my old taxidermist I go to is he had so much things that he just wanted to do the same mount every time so he could just bang them out as fast as he can.

Dan Johnson (37:55.543)
Yeah. And that's why I like the taxidermist that I go to. My man Sam down there at Old Barn Taxidermy in Fort Madison, Iowa. Dude, they're very creative with all of their mounts. Like if you want to tilt your head just a little bit in a specific direction, he'll do a head turn for you. He'll be creative with ears and posturing and things like that. so I look at it.

When I go downstairs, I sit on my couch and I look at my mounts. I say that's artwork almost. It's artwork of a memory that I've had. that artwork is, mean, obviously it's probably only that special to me. No one in my house looks at that artwork like I look at it, but it's just, it's something that brings up a good feeling, a memory, and I don't know, it's almost worth it.

because I look at it every day, I think about that hunt every single day and you you pay 500 to $800 for it. It's almost like that's worth it to me.

BO BREW (39:06.041)
When guys pick up their mounts too, I always tell them like when you get home and put it on the wall, send me a picture of it on your wall. It's like I just spent 12 to 15 hours on this shoulder mount and I know it's a means of tundu. I want to see where you go put it for you get the I like that when guys will like send me a picture of their mount on the wall after they after they take it home.

Dan Johnson (39:19.821)
yeah.

Dan Johnson (39:25.93)
Yep. Yep. That's cool, man. That's cool. Do you ever get guys? I'm sure you do that. They tell you one thing and then once they get it, they they're like, hey, that's not what I wanted. Like, how do you deal as a taxidermist deal with people not liking the initial response based off of what they told you to do to it?

BO BREW (39:52.602)
I haven't had a ton of that. But I've had a few times where guys walk in and they're about to pick up their deer and they're like, that's my deer? They don't even recognize, you shot that last year and you don't know that that's your deer? But I've been doing it four years. I've probably done over 200 shoulder moments. I've never really had anyone complain or say that isn't what I thought or that isn't what. But I tell the people too, you're ordering these forms off of two, three measurements.

Dan Johnson (40:01.685)
Yeah.

BO BREW (40:20.474)
You can't make everything exactly like how the deer was. All the forms are off of two or three measurements. Every deer is different. I try to make them. And as a taxidermist, I try to make a deer look like what it looks like in the wild, not what I think a shoulder mount. Some guys have the preconception idea in their head of what a shoulder mount would look like. But I also, I'm trying to make the deer look like what it looked like alive, not like what most people think a shoulder mount should look like.

Dan Johnson (40:44.5)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (40:48.79)
Yeah, yeah. I've talked to some guys. I want to hear your opinion on this because I've talked to some guys who have been doing taxidermy for 30, 40 years, right? They've pumped out who knows? And so if I was to compare them to you, you know, you're fairly new into the game here, even though you've done over 200 heads. What's the difference between a good taxidermist and a great taxidermist?

BO BREW (41:01.113)
Mm-hmm.

BO BREW (41:19.127)
I think this is the realism you can put into it. know, like a good taxidermist, it'll just look like, just like the basic good taxidermy, like where the average shoulder moment, but like a great taxidermist, it looks real. You got like the folds in the fur, you got the whites in the eyes, the pink inside the nostrils, everything looks like real good. There's the difference between like the regular.

full-time taxidermist or someone that's doing like the competition stuff that that's but you're gonna pay for it then too and even if you go back like I look at my work that I did my first year and look at my stuff now and it's like holy shit like I got so much better compared to when I first started it like I actually like I give like the anyone that brought me a shoulder mall my first year I always give them a deal because I'm like thank you guys for letting me learn on your dear my first year because I'm not looking back I mean they're still decent they're not

Dan Johnson (41:51.082)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dan Johnson (42:02.676)
Yeah.

Yeah.

BO BREW (42:17.002)
But like compared to what I'm turning out now, and if you don't do taxidermy like all the time, it seems like you're skit. The more you do it, the better you get at it. But with anything, but like you've got to keep your skills up. Like I even know old taxidermists that will take in 10, 12 deer a year just so they don't lose their skill, just so they're still doing it.

Dan Johnson (42:37.298)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I don't it's it seems I look at it. I look at from start to finish. You know, you look at it like a puzzle because you see all of it. You know, you got to make sure the cape is correct. You got to make sure all the fat's off. You know, the tanning process of it all. And then you got, know, making sure you pull the skull cap off the right way and then making sure you have the right mount.

And then they take that and then you put this wet basically carpet, which is the hide on this form and you know, with whatever, you know, maybe this buck had a Roman nose and the customer wants the Roman nose added on to the mount, right? And so all these other details that go into it, just, from the outside looking in, it looks like an impossible task.

But every time I get my deer back, I'm like, holy shit, that's amazing.

BO BREW (43:38.773)
It's a lot like another hard thing is like dealing with split ears I get a lot of them that come in with split ears trying to recreate that that's tough It's a there's a little it's it's really hard to do it You got to do it all the time and it's got to be like a full-time job, or there's your stuff isn't gonna look good

Dan Johnson (43:55.251)
Yeah, did you go through an apprentice program with another taxidermist?

BO BREW (43:58.964)
No, I went to there's a school in South Central Wisconsin in Janesville and you could pay I think it was like 12 grand and you go for six weeks and they teach you everything or you could pay like three grand and go for a week and they would and you pick the species. So I just paid the three grand went for a week and I took the whitetail class and that was back in 2020 and I used our COVID money to go to the taxidermy school. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (44:05.427)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (44:25.784)
There you go. There you go. Hey, that's kind of what it was there for to stimulate. And now you got a business out of the deal. That's cool, man. That's cool. When it comes to expectations for dropping something off at the taxidermist, man, what what are some some realistic expectations that you give to people or that you should that

BO BREW (44:34.942)
Yelp.

Dan Johnson (44:54.194)
they should expect when they drop their deer off at a taxidermist.

BO BREW (44:57.739)
The big issue I run into is up here it's cold and then rifle season comes and these guys are only rifle hunters and they want to let that deer hang on the pole and they let it hang there or they drag it by the neck and then they think because it's cold outside that it's gonna it's frozen or it's fine like yesterday Tuesday it got warm up here and I had people text me like hey I got this buck November 22nd can I it's like you shot that over two weeks ago

And then they bring them to me and the eyes all sunk in, the nose are all dried out and stuff. And I end up having to charge people for extra capes. So like, it's best to, once you shoot it, get it to me within, it and get it to me within 48 hours. If you can't get it to me within 48 hours, cape it and then put it in a freezer where it freezes solid. It can't be outside like in those fluctuating temperatures. Even if it is below 32, you still out in the wind.

And then once those, when you freeze something solid in the freezer, the eyes don't sink in like that. When it's outside with those, variating temperatures, the eyes sink in, you can't get that skin from, the inside of the eyes, the tuck. And I run into a ton of that during rifle season. Or people just screwing up the capes, butchering up, the capes if they don't know how to cape something and they don't call me beforehand. And then, and then I feel horrible, you know, I, I'm sorry, you can't use this cape.

And then I gotta charge them for an extra cape and then a lot of people feel bad that they don't get their original cape too.

Dan Johnson (46:23.857)
Yeah, yeah, man, I've, I've had that happen before, not necessarily from just lack of paying attention to it. But, you know, coyotes got into it and it took me two days to find. And then I was like, shit, I could use this Cape, but I'll just leave it out here. And then I had to buy a new Cape for a couple of my, you know, couple of my deer or like a Euro mount. Yeah.

BO BREW (46:36.229)
Yeah.

BO BREW (46:44.304)
And you would never know, and a lot of times you get a real nice cape. Like those capes I buy down in Iowa, those are better capes than most of the time the people are gonna have on their deer anyway.

Dan Johnson (46:54.036)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. The U.P., man, it's a crazy place outside of deer hunting. What's the what's the second most popular hunt or fish fishing type activity in the U.P.?

BO BREW (47:10.576)
That's tough to say a lot of people love ice fishing. I used to do a ton of that, in 2019 I shut it all down in this scoufer deer year round, but I would say it's definitely ice fishing. lot of jig fishing for panfish. And then in the UP you also can spear northern, northern pike. A lot of people put out the shacks and spear northern pike. like that, I would say if it wasn't deer hunting, it's definitely ice fishing.

Dan Johnson (47:27.534)
yeah. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (47:36.179)
Okay. All right. I can see that. Man. We haven't had a good enough freeze down here in Iowa the last couple of years for us to even, I'm sure guys go out on like four inches of ice or less, and they're just bare. They're just teasing with it. I won't do that. Like I'm not going to go, you know, when the, when the ice is doing this, moving up and down, like with the current and stuff, that's not cool to me, man. And so I don't, I haven't done it in a long time, but

BO BREW (47:51.471)
No.

Dan Johnson (48:04.455)
Hopefully we get a good freeze this winter, my boy, he's very interested in going ice fishing and I wanna, I don't know, I wanna do it.

BO BREW (48:13.306)
What do you guys usually get jink for, like panfish down there ice fishing? Eww.

Dan Johnson (48:16.837)
Yeah, bluegill crappie. That's it really. So if you're on a bigger body of water, maybe perch, some perch as well. But yeah. Well, cool, man. Great conversation today. Thanks for taking time out of your day to hop on. I know this was last minute, like most of the stuff I've been doing lately. But Bowman, what's the name of your, if you live in the U.P., go check out Bow. What's your company name?

BO BREW (48:43.648)
I'm Bruz Whitetail Taxidermy. I have a Facebook page. can type it in on there. It's got all my information and then just give me a call.

Dan Johnson (48:51.142)
Brew White Tail Tax Interme. All right, man. Hey, good luck the rest of the season. Hopefully you find success with your company and have fun up in the UP, man.

BO BREW (49:01.998)
Appreciate you having me on, Dan.

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