Torry Cook of MFK Game Calls

This week on the Missouri Woods & Water podcast Nate and Micah get the honor of talking with Torry Cook, owner of MFK Game calls and avid coyote hunter among other things.  First, Nate and Micah talk about some of the turkey numbers in our state at the point in which we recorded.  Micah also brings back the Chuck Norris jokes so enjoy that!  Then, we talk with Torry about what it's like living around wild coyotes and getting to be so close to them throughout their lives.  If you don't know, several years ago Torry came across some tiny coyote pups and took care of them to the point that they are ok with him and his wife's presence.  He has since done it again and he is able to learn so much about these animals and record some awesome sounds as well.  We then get into hunting summer coyotes and the way Torry attacks them this time of year including what sounds and sequences he uses among many other things.  Thanks for listening and enjoy the show!

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Missouri Woods Water Podcast with your host, Nathan and Micah. Hello, friend. For people that don't know Nate's name is actually Nathan. Yeah, I think people have figured it out because you don't say Nate almost ever, because that's not your name. I realize that. When did you start going by the name Nate?

I would say late high school when people kept calling me Thomas. I'm like, that's not my name. Yeah, that's my last name. Oh, I thought it was your first name. Because I think I've said this, I'm not gonna say my middle name, but all three of my names could be a first, [00:01:00] middle, or last name. All three of 'em.

I had a lot of people call me my last name too though. Winstead? Yeah. No, not friends. People who didn't know who I was and just saw like my name on a paper. Oh, they would stay Thomas and then college was, people just shortened it up. When I grew up, like Nate Dog the rapper was popular.

Oh, that's a real person. That's a real person. Nate Dog. He died I think. But so a lot of people called me Nate, and you can't really confuse Nate as my last name, so that's true. People still call me Thomas all the time, like my emails for work. My name is Nate Thomas on there. I will get a reply from somebody and they'll be like, I get, Hey Thomas.

And I'm like, what the hell? I guess the reason I call you Nathan is cuz I mean if you think about it, since we've known each other 90, probably 99% of the times we've had, we have met it's been with a family member. Like family. [00:02:00] So your entire family calls you Nathan, your mother? Yeah. My mom won't call me brother.

E everybody calls you Nathan. So that's probably why I continue to do that. Oh yeah. My mom, I named you Nathan. My brother. Cool. My brother Matt, your parents named you Catherine? Yeah. And we call you Elaine. What's up with that? In fact I love giving my parents shit cuz both my parents go by their middle names.

I know. And they have been, they have gone by them their entire lives. So I'll be like, you know what, just keep playing that game. I'll just start calling you Kathy? Yeah. Hey Kathy? Or no? I'll say C Katherine. That's what your mother named you? Yep. Yep. Dude, we had a show today. We had a show and then we had another show that we didn't record.

Yeah. I mean it was just, really it wasn't one I wanted to record, but we had a really good conversation. Yeah, I'm just gonna say it. Say it now. Tory's a good dude. Dude. He's awesome. Just salt of the earth. Salt of the earth. I can't believe I waited that long to [00:03:00] send him a message. Yeah, we definitely was just so nervous too.

And I'm just so excited. Like the first thing he said, whenever we connect and we good thing, he's Micah, your team would've won. Which That's right. I call bullshit. No, I don't. Now after talking to Tory, I'm like, ye oh man. He knows. He knows Kyle Pro, dude. He knows. He knows Kyles it's, he has probably forgotten more than we will ever know.

I don't know who else is on your team, cuz I've forgot about the teams, to be honest with you. I know that my first pick was John Collins. Yeah. And John, ah, I was gonna bring that up in the show, but John actually was just down with Tory hunting with him last week, I think it was. Oh really? Yeah. And I was gonna bring that up, but we talked about so much that it just slipped my mind, but Right.

It was funny, we, yeah, we talked about that a little bit. I can't remember if we recorded that or not, but we did. Yeah. Talked about it and some other cool stuff that yeah, we talk obviously if more than likely if you hunted coyotes, you know who Tory Cook is, but he's [00:04:00] also he has coyotes around him.

I don't, that's, I, yeah, they would be a good way to put it. They're not they're not his pets, but his pets in a weird way. His tools. Yeah, they're his tools and so we, we talk a lot about that and he breaks down. It's just so interesting, dude. I coulda, I could have talked about him with that, with him for three hours, right?

Because I don't know of anybody else in this world. They're, I'm sure they're out there. Don't yell at your speakers right now, everybody, but I'm sure they're out there. I don't personally know of anybody else in this world that could. Hold a coyote like he was today. A wild more than hundred percent wild.

No high fence coyote. Those dogs are free to go whenever they want. And so it's pretty cool. And so he's obviously, oh, we got a buddy and I'm won't say names, but he's got a family member that raises coyo dogs. Yeah. So they got pins of coyotes. Used for training and that sort of thing.

Yeah. But I don't think they can even get close to those dogs. I don't know. Maybe they could, I don't know. But [00:05:00] it's just, I, it's so interesting to me. I w i, I want to ask every little question that comes to my mind, like a f a five year old. You're like, Tory says coyotes do this and I wanna be like the five yearold, five year old.

That goes, why? Yeah. And then he answers it and then I go, why? Yeah. Like I just continue answer, have so many questions about being around coyotes as intimately as he has been. Yeah. For the past, five years or whatever. Yep. But we talk, so we talk a lot about that. And then we talk, obviously pups are in the ground getting ready to be a little bit more mobile and so we talk about early season cayo hunting.

So you mean on the ground? On the ground. In the ground. They're in the ground. A little bit of both, right? Yeah. They're in the ground right now on the ground. Be work on their way up. There could be some that are out walking around, but I feel like the ones around my house, the ones around my house are starting to get more vocal.

Like the pups. I can hear the pups, which is crazy to me. Yeah. I've never been able to legit hear pups like that. Of course I probably have, but I've just never paid attention to it. We could use that. [00:06:00] We could. I know where they're at. Yeah, that's good. So we talk about that in the show and how he likes to target those.

A lot of good stuff, man. You're you're really gonna enjoy this episode for sure. It is. Before we do get into the show, do we have any news things going on? We have, I have seen more Turkey Now, this isn't gonna come out till May 16th, but I've seen more trigger in the grip, right? Yep. Scott Wiler killed another one.

Or somebody, Scott, somebody with Scott. He took somebody, I can't remember, but yeah, he sent me a video. Did he? And we've got man, one of our listeners the only his name on Instagram, I know him is Gar Sp I know his actual name, but I don't have it in front of me, so congrats to that. Our buddy there who else?

Oh, Dan Johnson. Yeah, Dan. Yeah. You had him on. You're gonna he'll be last week's show. Yeah. I didn't get to be here for that one. Hunted for seven minutes and killed the. Nice. Was he like wild beard? Was he just okay, yeah, this is, oh yeah. It's it's a funny show and obviously it came out last week, but it, [00:07:00] he's basically I'm the best Turkey hunter alive.

It's plain, it simple. That's awesome. I wake up in the morning and piss excellence. But I have seen more, Turkey pictures. I haven't seen any of our MDC numbers yet. I think they'll probably wait until after season. Like season Ohio already published numbers through like the first week of their season which I thought was interesting.

You know what I'm saying? Like they've already and their numbers were up by 3000 birds really. From this time last year, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And that's dropping the two, I guess Ohio dropped it from two to one bird, two birds to one bird from last year to this year. See, I think we should do that.

Honestly, if we're having Turkey number problems, let's just limit it. Just one bird. I don't see it. Somebody's gonna, send some an eight mail for that, but I don't care. Oh, look at here. Turkey reports mdc, so they actually do. Oh, bet it's 2022. Yeah, it's last year's. I bet they don't, I bet they wait till after the season.

That would make most sense. That way they [00:08:00] have it all. Oh, 2023. Turkey hunting numbers. All seasons. So 2023 so far, I'm assuming there have been 39,391 Total Turkeys killed. 32,717 Gobblers. 6,321 Top County. Guess what? The top county is folks Mic. I should have had you guess, but it's Franklin County.

Aren't they usually like the one for Deer two? I don't know. I don't know exactly where Franklin is. I don't know either. Look. That's alright. Harvest by County. I'm curious what that is like from last year. Guess what we can check Last year. So what was it like 32,000? Toms? Yeah.

Right there. 2022.

Oh, I [00:09:00] don't know how to find 2022. You're just really screwing this up. What am I screwing up? I'm just people are getting, oh, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. 2022. I'd like to, you can use that number to see how it's doing. Just do spring. Just do spring Turkey. Franklin was the top county again.

That's funny. Total numbers 35. Where'd you see that? Bottom right. 35. So 33, 30, 33. 33,359 Total Birds last year. There's already been more than that. There's already been 6,000 more than that. And the season's not over yet if we're looking at that. And that's just the, that was just the spring season.

For, I don't know if that, that didn't include youth. I don't know if the 2023 numbers we're looking at right now are total includes you season. So take that for what it's worth. But you're talking 33 last year so far, statewide, there's been 39,000 killed. Once a year. Which is weird cuz I just feel like there hasn't been that [00:10:00] many killed this year.

But what do I know? Look at the map, man. Yeah, they're all south. It's like north south. Look at North Central though. North Central and then South Central I guess you look at our county. Yeah. Sucks. Yeah. Our county's like terrible. Our county's been 189 Total Turkeys killed. That's zero bearded hens.

Yeah. But there's also, there's been 353 bearded hens turned in. So where you can see at the numbers. Oh, total. Yeah. I see it now. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. I need to look at that more often, man. But it's it's over by now. By the time you guys are hearing this, Turkey season's over. Hope everybody, everybody did good.

Yeah. Hope the people that hunted turkeys. I hope you killed a Turkey. All right. Did you know that you know how we got giraffes? There's giraffes. Yeah. Those are just horses that Chuck Norris Uppercutted.

I've been waiting for a Chuck Norris joke for a while, dude. It is been a while. Dude. You and Andy have both [00:11:00] kind of screwed up. We, you haven't been doing Chuck Norris jokes and Andy hasn't done any dad jokes. That's true. But yeah, we've been slacking on the jokes. That was pretty good. That was pretty good.

That was pretty good. All right. Hey, let's get into our sponsors before we get into our show with Tori. It's a long show. Yeah. So it's a great show. We'll bang these out real quick. Oh, God. All right. Make sure you check out our website, Doug Missouri Woods and water.com. We got shows partner discounts and more on there, Weber Outfitters.

Excited to, we'll get down there. And then we're also in August, they're gonna have an event and I think we're gonna be there for it. I hope so, man. I really hope we can make it so it, it's once we get more details, we'll tell you guys a little more. Yeah. I don't know if they've officially made the date right, but right now they're looking somewhere around the weekend of August 12th.

Yeah. And it's gonna be a cool event. Check 'em out in Hawk Point, Missouri awesome. Bo Dealer bot Tex they also sell Botax. Yeah. It leads all kinds of different guys. They've got range. All kinds of cool stuff. And then if you wanna buy a gun there, man. [00:12:00] Absolutely. Athlon optics, ridiculously good optics we're gonna be getting out actually by the time this episode airs.

We might have already been out Cayo hunting and me and you we're gonna be using our Aries. Unlikely. So I will be using my Es. I am 100% will be. And while we're out Cayo hunting, more than likely we're gonna drop on OnX and you can use the code MW 20 for 20% off. Make sure you do that online and not through the app.

Yep. All right. Hunt worth gear. I'll tell you what, man. I've been working on our website, our gear boxes, and I started with my clothing. And so I've been building out my, what I use, and I've been on their website a lot and they've got some new stuff coming out. Did you know that Your, that sw that sweatshirt that has got the disruption pattern on it, and then it's got the brown tarn in coming. Oh, really? Yeah. And then they've got a new pair of yeah, I know they pants, the olive color. [00:13:00] Yeah, I saw the olive green ones. Yeah. So just different things I've been looking at. They've got some new stuff coming out. They're gonna be coming out with a, I can't really, I don't think say too much about it, but they're gonna be coming out with a bundle builder, essentially.

Oh, okay. So you can build a set or whatever, ba Yeah. Basically, it's a, I don't remember exactly what it's called, but essentially if you're looking for early whitetail, Or whatever. It gives you a suggestion of this is what you should start with. Yeah. Now this is not something that you can do.

It's called a system builder. Okay. And it's not something you can do right now. They have not finished it, but they are working on it and I think it's gonna be pretty awesome cuz a guy like me, if I'm saying, Hey, I'm going to Colorado, or I'm hunting late season whitetail, essentially a system builder says, these are the items that are gonna work best for you.

Oh, nice. And then you can pick through there. [00:14:00] So that'll be pretty cool. Check 'em out. Hunt worth gear.com. Alps Outdoors, we got a product spotlight for Alps Outdoors today. Oh yeah. I wanna start doing more of those for our partners. Making little videos, little snippets, not so much videos, talking about one thing that we, you know and I actually got the idea from you and then I got it.

They're Ghost 20 pack. Oh dude. I love mine sitting right there on my pool table right now. Mine I use for It has nothing to do with hunting. I don't use it for hunting. But it's such a convenient pack for what I'm using for, I use it for our podcast. My podcast stuff. Yeah. So I have my laptop, my headphones, my Zoom, all the stuff that I use to record a podcast on for myself.

Yeah. I can keep in that bag comfortably organized and everything. So that ghost pack is an EDC pack, so you can also conceal carry in it. It's got a, different compartments for that. It's a, it's really well thought out. I'm a really big fan of that pack. Yep. I just wanted to throw that out there.

Ops Outdoors, use our code 2023 Woods Water, 30% off [00:15:00] Za Lamb boots. Got some boots on our way. I got some work boots coming, see, and I got some tennis shoes coming that I'm excited about. Like I already have the lattes. But they also have like more of a, like a tennis shoe running. Did you order those?

Yeah, I ordered those. Nice. So yeah, I got a pair of work boots that. I'm hoping that they'll double as I can wear 'em for work. And then also if like we went out to a restaurant or for like church, just like a nice pair, they would look nice enough that I could get by with it. No, I gotcha. So nice.

Pretty excited about that. Check 'em out. Za land usa.com. Habitat Works. Give our boy Dustin a call. 8 1 6 7 5 2 73 90. Shoot him an email. Habitat Works llc gmail.com. Just talk to Dustin yesterday actually. Oh yeah. He was driving through and was talking about some public land and he made me feel bad.

Did he? Yeah. Why? Because we got to talking and I should've this winter been out at the public Grounds Scout. I'm thinking about hunting next year. [00:16:00] Yeah. If my land issues continue and I didn't. And now it's, may and he's I'll, you can still do it. He's Hey you gimme a call when you go, I'll go with you.

And I'm like, why didn't I not scout those things when there were no, because we were too busy hunting coyotes. And I know doing everything else, but I've got a handful of them picked out within an hour of me that I'd like to check out. And he just made me think of, he didn't specifically make me feel bad, but talking about it made me feel bad.

Yeah. Oh, I have to, I effed up. I should have got this done. Yep. But check our buddy Dustin out. We're gonna be doing a show with him coming up about summer burning. Okay, cool. Yep. Who have we forgot? Black Ovis. Yeah. Camou Fire. Black Ovis. For Black Ovis. She used the code M ww 10 10% off. And then Camou Fire, their sister company rotating door of deals.

We're not gonna look on it today. No, not today, but, black Ovis they got some new logo gear out by the way. Talk, speak. We talk about this after the show with [00:17:00] yeah. But Logos with Tori Tory's got a badass logo. Mfk game calls. My opinion is a badass logo. Yeah. Black Ovis Badass logo. One of the top ones.

And they've got some really cool logo gear. Yeah. That our buddy over there at black Ovis sent to us. And I'm gonna wear 'em proudly. Heck yeah. I've already worn two of the shirts, so mine are still sitting in my office in the packaging. Nice. You gotta get 'em out, so I bet. I think that's the sponsors for today.

I think so. Yeah. So check 'em out and you just wanna get into today's show with Tory Cook. Let's do it, man. It's really good information here. So take out your pen and paper and do what with it. Write down some notes. I don't know. Cool. Just something to think about. What they could do also is just go back into the podcast and listen to watch it again.

Yeah, that's a good idea. Watch what, listen again. All right. I'm getting argumentative, so I should stop. All right. This is the Missouri Wasn't Water Podcast. Let's do that. All right. See you[00:18:00]

Okay with us tonight. We got one that is a little bit in the making. I'll be honest, I was a little nervous to reach out to the guy, but we finally got Mr. M F K game calls himself. Tory Cook on the show. Tory, what's going on, man? Oh man. Glad to be here. You picked, appreciate y'all having me on. You picked the right hoodie for tonight's episode because that's, the legend.

Yeah, the legend. So yeah, that works out well. Yeah. Before we record it, I gotta give Micah, I'm playing. Yeah. I gotta give Micah a little bit of a pat on the back before we recorded Tory listened to our Coyote draft episode, which was a lot of fun. And reminded all the listeners out there was just for fun.

We weren't trying to piss anybody off or nothing like that, but Tory thinks his team would win. He's a smart man. Un unbiased. I just unbiased. I just thought Mike had the [00:19:00] best team. Thank you. I get it. I get it. It might be, I thought I did too. Course it might be because Tori's on your team, but it don't matter.

Yeah, it was, that was a lot of fun. I got a kick out listening to it, and I think most people would get a kick out of it. Y'all, It was fun. Fun deal. It was, we've done a your episode will be I think 1 58. So we've been running now for over three years, and that was probably honestly one of the most fun shows.

I've, it was a really good time. We'll have to do it again during deer season and do it. Oh, deer hunters, there's just so many of 'em out there. That'd be, that'd be hard to change. You really wanna piss people off. Yeah. That, that, that'll definitely bring up some, pissed off people, but that's all right.

That's what we're here for. Sometimes, but it was a lot of fun and can't make everybody happy. That's right. It was a lot of fun. But, if, obviously if y'all listen to this show and you're interested in coyotes, you should know who Tory Cook is, but Tory Cook is the owner of M F K game calls.

Tory, why don't you give everybody just a quick rundown of who you are and what M F [00:20:00] K game calls are before we get into today's fun topic. Tory Cook, like you said, I live in southeast Arkansas. I was born in a little town called Goat Neck, and now I live in a town called Johns Pool. I'm 17 miles from the nearest actual town, so I live in the middle of nowhere with my wife, three kids, grandson.

My wife's name is also Tory Lynn. She helps me. We run M f K together and it's a game call company, primarily focused on predators. We do turkeys, deer, elk call that, but the primary focus and what we're known for is the cow predator related calls, making diaphragms and of course recording all the live coat sounds that people can use on the Fox Pro calls.

We're partnered with them and that's my daily deal. I'll give you a quick plug because I told the guy I was getting ready to buy an X 24. And me and Micham ran into [00:21:00] Big Al Morris at a t a this year and Big Al showed us the new X 48 coming out and I was just about at that time to, to buy an X 24.

We had just heard around that time when you partnered up with Fox Pro and started selling the calls and those and that sorts of thing. But then he told us about the X 48 and I said, I'll wait till July. Yeah, we'll just wait till the new, I'll wait for, I'll wait for a few months and then I'll get with Tori and get that X 48.

Cuz what I'm excited about and what people should really listen to on this you can buy a Fox Pro game call anywhere obviously, but what's cool about, buying one from Mfk is when you buy a game a Fox Pro e caller, it comes loaded with several of what, like a hundred or so or something like that.

I think you get different packages different. Different package your sounds as well, right? Yeah. It'll come with FoxPro and. The standard package, the basic patch package will come with a hundred mfk sounds as well. And then if you call, people can call and custom order and get fully loaded [00:22:00] units or customize their sound list, whatever they want to do.

Yeah. I'm just gonna be like, Hey, all of them, you just stick 'em on there, slap 'em on there, just yeah, throw 'em on there. But yeah, so that's what's pretty cool about what Tori and the the partnership with FoxPro has has done is you can get an awesome call and then also extra sounds on top of it, which is really cool.

I've been running a shock wave for how many years now? It's been quite a few years and I've always liked it, but I'm ready to. Move on to that. You always gotta, you always gotta tinker with something, right? Yeah. You always gotta upgrade or nothing wrong. Like we said, nothing wrong with it. And we can put the Tory Cook sounds on that one, but why not go ahead and get that new one?

That's why that Shockwave is a really good unit and has been for years. But those x-er calls are next level. Yeah. Lot more volume. Of course. 24 bit audio. They're good stuff. Yeah, they're easy to pack around too. A lot easier, I feel like. Yes, I agree. My, my shock waves, that's the, been the, my biggest complaint about my shockwave is getting in my pack.

[00:23:00] Even the other company we won't talk about right now some of their larger calls are easier to pack around than that shockwave, just with the configuration of the pack and everything. And I'm excited about, the X 48 or the 24 and that for that matter, especially, even if you didn't have it in a pack, you just carrying it like it's, gotta handle.

It's just a really easy to move around too. But yeah. I was gonna say something else and I already forgot, but, so that, that's Mfk game calls. How did you, I don't know, how did this get started? So for people that don't know, Tori, also, what's your setup down there? Oh, I know what I was gonna tell you. Let me back up.

Oh my, geez, I can edit that out. I got a buddy you said you grew up in a little town called whatever the hell, goat. You said Goat. Goat neck. Goat Neck. Goat Neck. I got a goat buddy that grew up in evening shade, Arkansas. Yeah, I'm familiar with it. Yeah. Isn't that world? They had a show Burt Reynolds was in, based off that town.

I think that's right. We've got a lot of weird names in Arkansas. There's Bald Knob and [00:24:00] Rector and all those places, and they're right there stacked on top of each other. And those made the Beef Us and Butthead movie. Yeah. Of course I'm sure you know where they went with Bald Knob and all that kind of stuff hey, we got a tight wad. Yeah, we do have a tight wa we have a tight wad and some other funny names, but sometimes I wonder the history on some of these towns. There's probably some funny backstory to a lot of them. Yeah. The town we grew up in, actually, we grew up in the same town. Back in the day it was called Lick Skillet.

Yeah. And then they changed it finally to Oak Grove years ago. Years later. But the original name was Lick Skillet. Yeah. And every year we got like a little fair or whatever you want to call it, and lick skillet days. Yeah. So that's more memorable. That's easier to remember. It's hard to forget.

That's what I'm saying, how we changed it. Yeah. But if, so anyways, for people who don't really know Tori, also a lot of the sounds, probably all the sounds that you record, you're recording your own coyotes, right? [00:25:00] A lot I'm assuming. Yes. Most of the time. How did that come about Now it's for the, just wanting to, once I got into the sound, the industry, I guess a lot of people would say, once I got into that, I was already building, the diaphragms and we were starting to record.

Some sounds as well because it's good to match the diaphragms with the causes and just have the best of both worlds. Combining those as a big plus, and I wanted to branch into that. And so we started recording early on. I was recording just whatever I could get my hands on, maybe we shot and crippled a coat and I'd get some sounds or I'd catch something and get some sounds.

But they were random, few and far between. Background noise, just different things. They weren't the quality that I wanted, but it ped my interest. So I started, looking for an opportunity to get my hands on some little coats. And it just so happened that's what happened. And it was pretty quick.

I was able to get kill the adults, found the [00:26:00] pups, dug them up. They still had their eyes closed. And so I looked at everything else that all the other libraries had. I wanted something a little different and I didn't know if this would work early on. But I wanted to raise the coats. As if they were wild, and mimic that as close as I could.

Like I told y'all earlier, I'm 17 miles from the nearest town. We've got a good bit of family ground, and then I've got two leases that it over 20,000 acres combined that's just right here around the house. So plenty of ground to work with. So we dug a den and just a makeshift d into mimic coat den in the woods behind her house and up pretty well between my wife and I.

She was early on. She probably had more to do with it than I did because she was the one that was feeding on all hours of the night. Doing that woman work and taking care of the kids, that kind of deal. Oh, wow. When did this start? What year was this?

Like when did you start having pubs? [00:27:00] I am terrible with remembering stuff like that, but it was approximately, I think I'm going into my fifth year. Okay, so wasn't that long ago then. Really? No, it hadn't been that terrible long. I think the earliest ones were five, they'll be five years old. So how many pumps did you come home with right then?

And like, how did that go? Did they all make it? What was that like? Three original pups from that den and then I got one more that was from a separate den that was a little bit older. And so I started out with four. The four original coat were Ru Boone, smack and Jiggy, and those were the four originals that got me started.

And those were the ones that I spent the most time with. Jiggy was that oddball pop up and she was always pretty wild. She, I didn't get a whole lot of recordings from her and she left probably. I don't even probably, she might have made it to a year, maybe a little older than a [00:28:00] year, and she left and I hadn't seen her since really.

But the other three, I got them when their eyes were open. I didn't get jiggy until her eyes were open and it just doesn't work the same if their eyes are open. And so the way we went about it, without giving my competition too much information, we basically lived with those coats. I spent more time with those coats than I did in my own house for that, for a full year, and then daily after that.

And I haven't spent as much time with the ones since. So I don't know if they'll stay around as long. So far I've had some come and go. They'll usually stay till about a year. And I've got some that are still here at five years old. So it just depends on the cow and how much time you spend with them.

And, some other factors with. Food and stuff like that. That that's the key to keeping 'em around. And they've got plenty of ground, right? They can go out and [00:29:00] do their own thing. Yeah. But there's no guarantees with them. I had one that I raised this past summer and free range, and she got shot by somebody else.

She got too close to some cows and got shot, but it did not kill her. She got shot twice and made it back and I ended up running across a blood trail. I knew where they beded up at the thicket. They usually stayed in. And found the blood trail and found her in a top. And it's just a testament to how tough they really are because her esophagus, this was my theory on what happened.

I think they tried to shoot her in the head to begin with and they hit her right under the jaw, blew a big chunk out, and you could see her esophagus and then it looked like, They probably shot at her as she ran away and she had a big blaze stripe that opened up her skin. But it didn't get in her ribs were exposed, but it wasn't inside the chest cavity.

And she would eat [00:30:00] she didn't even know that asap you could watch the food going down her throat and Oh, man, in just a few quick weeks, it all healed up. Oh, she lived? Oh yeah, she lived, damn. Yeah. Yeah, she lived, and you wouldn't know it. She's got a slick spot under her chin. But other than that, she wouldn't know it.

They really are. A lot of, people, you see 'em on videos all the time shooting. You just roll 'em up and you think they're, an easy kill. But man, I've, yeah, if you hunt Kyle's long enough, you will see. I never I actually, my brother-in-law, Russell, he'll probably hate me telling this story, but me and him were just, me and him were thermal hunting this last season in Missouri and we had two come in and the only shot one of them gave us was about 120 yards looking just its face.

And I said, I can make that shot. And so I shot it and dropped it. We're like, look at that. And then we tried to get on the other one. It got through the thicket and we couldn't get it. We get up to this coyo and [00:31:00] it was just crawling around. 90% of its face gone. You know the picture? Yeah. Yeah.

And Russell's I can't believe this thing. This is a horror movie. I can't believe this thing's still alive and. That I've never seen that guy with more compassion in his life. He's I gotta do an, we've gotta, I'm like, oh yeah let's finish this. You don't want him to suffer.

Point blank shoots it again, and it takes it like 45 seconds to die. Yeah they're tough, man. It just sat there and he's oh my God, I can't handle this man. And it was a young female, she wasn't even big. It, she just was so tough. And you don't want it to go like that.

Obviously you want 'em to die in two seconds, but unfortunately, but it happens as part of it. You just get 'em as finish 'em off quick as possible. Yeah. I've got another one I've recorded. I've been recording it for the past year. They're about to be a year. They are a year old. Just turned a year old and her name is Flip Flop.

It's female. Her name's flip flop. She got her name because when she was born, [00:32:00] my wife and I realized something was wrong with her legs. It wasn't very obvious at first. They worked, but she was not. Knee in the back legs, both back legs. And then as she grew, those legs just never worked. And she would flip flop back and forth her from side to side, her hams would hit the ground on each side. Ah. And then over the course of the next few weeks, I thought she was gonna get out of it. I thought she would, be able to walk and maneuver. But they ended up, the joints in 'em locked stiff.

So both of her back legs are locked stiff. And it's like they have no, they're like paralyzed and locked. And it done that pretty much overnight. One of 'em done it, and then the next day it was like that. And you can't, anyway, over the course of the next few weeks, I thought I don't even know if she'll make it, but she has learned to walk.

She can walk and run on two legs. She'll pick herself up. You can tell she tenses up. It'd be like flexing with your abs [00:33:00] almost. She'll. Tent up and pick that back, end up off the ground and have those two back legs either sticking out to the side or run between her front legs and she's just running on her front legs and she's pretty dang fast.

Wow. And other than that, you wouldn't know anything was wrong with her. She that's, so she now, the other ones, she can still get out there and hunt and do everything that cows do. Wow. That's so crazy. The other pups whooped her down. Immediate, you know how animals are, when one of them's hurt or crippled, they'll take advantage of it.

So they've whooped her down and pushed her out immediately. Or as soon as she wasn't functioning right they kinda whooped her down. And so she's always isolated, keeps to herself, stays away from the rest of them. But yeah, she's it's amazing what they can do. Oh, you see it all, you hunt long enough, you'll find one with three legs or a leg blowing off or whatever, and it's just, it's running like that leg is still there.

Yeah. What's the one we saw? It might have been John, no, Blake. Blake, Garrett. Yeah, that's right. Just did a video and [00:34:00] that Kyle was running in it had all four legs. You would not have known it had only had three legs. Yeah. But it didn't, it was just boom. Just as fast as the rest of them.

And I'm just like, man, if that happened to one of us, we'd be like, we'd be done. Pull the plug. I'm done. John killed. You mentioned John. He killed one. That is one of the best examples of how, what survivors they are. He killed one that had that whole bottom jaw missing. Yeah, that's right. I do remember it's on one of the videos.

Yeah. That whole bottom jaw is gone. And that co is still, not only was it surviving isn't in good shape. Yeah. I remember her seeing that, heck, I dunno what their, wasn't it rat after licking? Yeah. And wasn't, didn't Randy Anderson kill one that was blind? Yeah. No. Who was it just recently that killed one that didn't have any eyes?

Yeah, it was, I'm pretty sure it was Randy. I heard about that, but I don't remember who killed it. I wanna say it was just the last few weeks. I wanna say it was Randy. It pisses me off that I'm not gonna remember, but yeah, somebody just recently killed one that it didn't have [00:35:00] any eyes not blind, it never had eyes.

How that thing is still alive to this day and an adult is beyond me. But so that, that's something I didn't know. I actually thought like they were in a pen. Like you had 'em, like a pack of dogs, you, or breeding dogs. I didn't realize that. They're basically just wild coyotes that Yeah. Yeah.

They're free range. We have, we've pinned some, we've tried everything. I've done it all. And the reason I wanted to do the free range deal and record 'em that way is because for one, nothing like that's been done. No other, other than random sounds that people will get into wild.

There's. There's not any free range coats that people are recording and it just changes. It changes the dynamic of, and the type of sounds that you get. So if you put coats in, a kennel or a pen or something like that, then there's structure changes. They're picking order changes so you can get fights and you can get a lot of good [00:36:00] sounds and like I said, they are good sounds.

You can get a lot of good sounds that way. But there are certain sounds that you can't get cause that pecking order and stuff like that's unforced sounds, or two coats. If you put pinned coats together, you've got a cow in one pen and a cow in another pen, and you put 'em in the same pen where one of 'em can't get away and they're gonna fight, one of 'em submissive, one of 'em is dominant.

But you get that part of it is pretty well already established. You dump, what you're missing is when two cows come together. When they're running loose, when they come together and they both want to fight from the get-go, and then some of those other social interaction sounds, I call 'em. And just stuff that's peck and order type stuff that changes.

And cows can come and go as they please. You just get different sounds that are truly natural. There's no manipulation with putting coats in a confined area and,[00:37:00] causing certain sounds to take place. So I wanted to do that because it, it separated my library from everybody else's having the ability.

And then of course, I documented every bit of it along the way with video so that people could see, hey, these coats are, Just doing their thing and I'm recording them at two or three feet and not only did we get a lot of good audio from it, but just got a ton of behavioral stuff from 'em and got to learn.

I got to learn so much in those first couple years and I'm still learning. That completely changed my way of thinking about what Couch do and some of the stuff that had been put out and what you typically would read in magazines and on forums and in books and some of the older videos before. Before I started raising these couch and documenting what they really do.

There was a lot of stuff that was put out to us as predator [00:38:00] hunters, predator callers. That just isn't true and it makes the calling more difficult too. Like for example, I say it on just about every podcast that people talk to me on. One of the main things that I learned right off the bat, Is that the type of how that you're using is not that big a deal.

You're just a strange coat when you, how doesn't matter if it's male, how female how old or young it is, it's just a strange coat to those, to whatever coat you're calling. And there was a lot of bad information put out. Not necessarily bad information. I think it was true for the way they were applying it.

It just didn't hold true for when we're calling codes. So if you go do a lot of these studies and where I think a lot of this information came from, if they're doing a study in Yellowstone or somewhere that and they're studying these resident coats, all of those coats are known coats. They already have an established pecking order [00:39:00] and that's the key to it, that established pecking order.

Then yes, you're gonna have coats that not only recognize each other, but they also recognize each other's house. That pecking order is established and when one of 'em vocalizes or they come in contact, that rank is there. So if the big dominant male code is howling or doing his thing, then yes, some of them are gonna submit that and it carried over to the calling side of it.

Where it differs and where that doesn't hold true is those resident coats that know each other are not scared of strange coats because they've established a pecking order amongst known coats. But this strange coat, that house when we run our call, or if it just comes in, a transient coat that comes in, all of those coats from the most subordinate coat in that resident group still thinks it can whoop that strange [00:40:00] coat.

No shit. And so it's just it's just like yard dogs or any other animals. If you take. If you take a block of chickens and you've got the biggest, baddest rooster, you can throw a rooster from somewhere else in and they'll jump on each other, and so will that bottom, the one at the bottom of the food chain, the lowest pecking order?

Those the strange one, the new chicken or out or dog or bull or whatever. When you put 'em together, it doesn't matter their rank anymore because they haven't fought and that pecking order hadn't been established. So when they're trying to come up with a new pecking order type thing. Or do coyotes try to kill each other? Is that like a thing or are they just saying, Hey, you're new here, you're, we're gonna figure out who's top dog. Yeah, that's, they are fighting with bad intentions, like they want to kill each other. It usually doesn't get that far because. One of 'em is gonna submit and get out there, and run away.[00:41:00]

And once they do that, usually that ends the fight. Just like yard dogs. If you've got, regardless of the size of the dogs or anything like that, when you have new dogs that come together, un until they establish rank, especially on those, you've got those little sissy breeds that may not do that.

But if you've got a real dog, they are, they're gonna fight until pecking order is established. And then once that pecking order's established, then they show, respect to whichever one ranks higher. The codes are the same way. So when we're calling to coach, and I learned this from testing sounds, introducing strange coats to resident coats, some that I've raised in one spot, and then they are in another spot.

You can take the most dominant code out of this group and the most submissive code outta the other group, and they'll lock up. To see who's, how that pecking order falls. So when we're howling at couch or using hows on our remote, it makes it a lot easier because it [00:42:00] opens the library up to where you can use whatever hows you wanna, you want to use it.

It doesn't have to be that young female, how a lot of times, some of my best house, like those Boone Long wine houses that are so popular, he, at the time those were recorded, he was the dominant CO in the group and those how called, everything from tiny little pups that still have milk on their lips all the way up to the females and oldest males of the group.

They don't know that he's the dominant, he's just stranger. He's just a strange guy. I get, it's very similar to us as humans if you think about it. Okay, you got a group of your buddies. Real buddies that would fight for you. Just like a coyote. And you guys all know who the big guy is.

The best guy in our situation, Tori, would be, the big duty and we got our group here, and we know who's who. But if some ex outside guy walked in the house and said, I want [00:43:00] to fight all you, it'd be all three of us on him. Not worried about is he the biggest and baddest dude in his crew or whatnot.

It makes, it, it makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. Of course you got some friends that would bolt, sure. I might come back in and kick him after he is down, after toy kicks his ass. I'll kick him when he is down. But, and the thing that animals don't typically do, that humans do, we'll size each other up.

We'll look at each other and we'll say that guy looks like he's probably a handful. Coats don't do that. You can have a coat that outweighs the other one. Or just like the bulldog, the big bulldog jumping on the tiny Chihuahua or the chihuahua jumping on the big bulldog. The little dog thinks he's big and bad and doesn't size up the other one and know that he's fixing to get whoop.

Where, humans are sometimes are smart enough to know better. I'll back away here. Yeah, that's, if you, and if you think about it, you're one of the few people in the world that get to be that close to basically a wild coyote. We're recording with you on May 3rd [00:44:00] and you actually posted a picture today, I forget her name this morning of Shortcake seems like there was a squirrel in a tree and you were sit, you're sitting there basically holding her and there's about five people in this entire world I can think of.

Probably get to do that. And so you get to see, you get to see. Like I think of all these questions now, have you ever been with your coyotes when a strange coyote has howled in the distance? Oh yeah. What do they do? Do they like, do they just perk up and look or do they immediately bolt?

Like what have you seen them do when they get stimulated by something on the outside? It depends on the distance. Those coats are uhhuh, so those coats are like right here. I hear this all the time. This is a regular deal. If those coats are far enough away, they really don't even acknowledge it.

A lot of times they don't even how back. But if they're close enough, if they're getting up there towards too close for comfort you'll hear [00:45:00] those truly wild coats, they'll howl. And then my couch a lot of times will answer back and that's usually all it is. It's just like when we're locating coats, if, if we howl and other coats, how, and.

We don't close distance and they're pretty good ways away. And you don't make any other sounds. They just go back to doing their thing. It's pretty much a, I don't know what coach are necessarily saying, but I think it's just a, Hey this is our stuff. This is where we are. They announce their presence over here.

And unless somebody crosses the line, that's all there is to it. I've never seen a coat and bolt and run from another cow howling or anything. Yes. I have seen resident coats or known coats, family members to work pups and adults will do this when one of 'em will, a more submissive guy will start to how, and this goes back to what we were talking about before, where the couch are known and where I think some of those studies came into play.[00:46:00]

You'll see those submissive coats try to how, and those other pups will jump on 'em, the more dominant. Coat will try to keep that cow from howling and they usually just cower and maybe get out of the way and they don't run off and do the stuff that people think they do. If coats are now, that doesn't mean they're gonna come every time you howl, but if you, I've had people ask me about, I was watching it with thermal and we howled and they left the field.

Typically that's the same thing will happen when you play prey distress or something like that. Sometimes guys just don't, they're not convinced with the scenario or they don't like the setup or they're pressured or, there's a million different things it could be, but I don't think it's because that how scared 'em and they're running because they're scared another cows about to whoop 'em.

I think that pretty much only happens. I don't think that really happens at all. But the only time that they're scared of another cow is when they [00:47:00] know that code. It has to be a known. Resident coat, family member, something that's already whooped them. And and you see that same deal with a lot of other animals, deer.

Yeah. Everything else, when they're in bachelor groups, they establish, as they bust up, they, and then you will see, but if a strange deer comes in there, one of 'em that's scared of the main buck, he'll still fight with, a, a new buck. Yeah. So I think the cow deal works that peck and order deal with animals pretty much works like that across the board.

And when you're hunting at pretty much zero at pretty much no point in time will you ever be a known coyote to coyote you're calling, unless you unless I'm down in southeast Arkansas using one of mfk sounds. Like you'll never, I'll never be a known coyote, so I'm always gonna be at one of those outsiders.

One thing I've always thought of is Like that property, we had the degradation tag on this year. We hunted it [00:48:00] enough this last year on a degradation tag, and then during thermal season that we really started feeling like there was a boundary line on this farm. Now. Yeah. I don't know how it all works, but we started going, we're not going gonna kill these coyotes here.

We have got to go further and risk getting busted, but they will not cross this fence. And we watched it how many times where they would like, they would come, they're being just, there be four dogs on the outside of this fence and they would just trace back and forth. It wasn't a woven wire or nothing, it was just, yeah. Barb wire, regular fence, barbed wire. Any anybody could get through it. But for whatever reason, they would not cross it at all. And we started thinking that was, a we we talked to Big Al, and he was That's true. He was thinking that he's it could just be a border and they're not going to, because we did, like the first night we killed the dog out of it.

But it was behind that fence. No, it wasn't, it was different. It was a different one. Yeah. It was a difference. And then [00:49:00] the next, we went a few nights later, killed another dog. And then after that, the, so we could have actually killed the resident dogs. And then the other two, the other four that we saw out there could have been just on the outside.

They, we just couldn't get 'em con to commit. Maybe we were playing the wrong stuff, and we just didn't tickle their fancy. But we threw everything at 'em, and it just didn't work. So we're thinking, we remember one night that Micah was talking about, we had five, six of them, six in a field.

Every time I would call. And I, it's not like I was doing this every minute, but I would call and they would re, they would reply, get all worked up, start moving in on us, and then get to that fence and then just stop and then go back to what they were doing. Like we didn't do anything. And we'd watch 'em for another 15 minutes just in the field, effing around.

And then I'd do something and boom they'd reply, get all agitated, come to that fence line. Stop. Yeah. And I'm just like that's, it was one of, it happens a lot. It was crazy. And sometimes [00:50:00] there's not anything obvious there, like a fence or an edge or something. But distance in general plays a huge role.

I think distance from the coats is as important, probably more important than the sounds that we play. Because those coats will just, like we were talking about earlier, when if you, how or or strange cows, how, or whatever, and they answered. And you don't move towards 'em. Sometimes they'll, they're content to cuss you out, hold their ground.

And as long as you don't move any closer, doesn't matter what you play, they'll stay wherever they're at. They're comfortable with that distance. You can move just sometimes it may not be, I have it happen all the time. We may not move, but 30, 40, 50 yards, whatever we can get by with without feeling like we're gonna bump 'em.

And that little bit of pressure that you put by moving towards 'em a little [00:51:00] is all it takes. And then you can play the same sound that they wouldn't come to, or that maybe they only howled back in. You can play those same sounds and they'll run over you cause of the distance change. And sometimes you have to move multiple times to get inside that imaginary line.

Ry, whatever it is with them that you walked into the front door finally. Yeah I can see what you mean. Yeah. And we did move that night. We just must have gotten busted. It was really cold outside, and so it was, the ground was hard and we weren't the quietest be, it was being kinda loud.

Yeah. So we did move, but then I think we moved too much, like you were saying, maybe if we would've just moved little bit 60 yards, up that fence line at first, seeing what happens. But it was one of the honest, we didn't kill a dog that night, but it was one of the coolest hunts that we had been on, just because, we saw six coyotes for 45 minutes.

Yeah. Just watching them out there, just watching 'em do their thing. One of 'em had three legs. We could tell. It was, yeah, it [00:52:00] was really cool. It's just, we got to see that from a distance, whereas, you're living it and it's just so cool to. I, it's gotta be really cool to be able to understand these animals better than 99.99% of the population in this world because, oh, it's been it's been an amazing eyeopening, eyeopening experience.

Having them and being able to learn from 'em. You learn so much about their behavior throughout different times of the year, changing times of the year. That, and I put a lot of this out there on the videos and with these podcasts and stuff. Cause I like to see people have success with the sounds and when you figure out their, how their behavior changes with different times of the year and how drastic that change can be from.

Almost one month to just a a couple weeks or month later. How big a change takes place with some of that. Pups coming, we're getting ready for pups to come outta the [00:53:00] ground before long. That's a big change. Where you go from slow vocals or no vocals to, everything's gonna be howling.

They'll be howling in the daytime and it's almost like a light switch going from dent and pups in the ground to actually p rearing where those pups are out of the ground. And then you'll transition from that. Another major change is when family bust up takes place at the tail end of summer and end of fall.

That's another big event that changes. And the sequences that you use will change. And of course from there you go into pairing and breeding and then that changes again when they roll back into denning. And so you've got those major events that take place. Throughout the year that I didn't know, how big a deal that was until I got to live with and watch goats day in and day out and do it from their point of view.

It's fun to sit there and, from a calling standpoint and learning about how [00:54:00] they trigger on different sounds and how they work a call, we're always the hunter behind the call watching the cow come in, and we don't know what happens from the time that cow hears the call until he gets into view.

So we don't know, when that sound hits his ears, what did he do? Did he listen to it for five minutes? Did he jump up and run? Did he circle, what did he do? And being able to watch, I can put that call out. They don't know where it's at, don't know anything's going on.

I've got the remote with me and I can go right in the middle of these cops and they're just doing their thing. They may be laying around doing whatever. And then all of a sudden that sound comes on from however, before I've got that call set away from me. And I've even done it too, where I've had, to get more distance, I've had my wife or somebody else run the call from a distance, so that I could get more range between me and the couch, getting into [00:55:00] that 400 yard range plus and get to watch, alright, from the time that sound comes on, what do they do? And getting to learn about that. And I, from doing that, I learned a lot about different co personalities. A lot of that's been been put out on deer, on whitetail deer and the different personalities with different bucks.

That same holds true with coats. So you've got some coats that are really aggressive that when they hear it, They're gonna jump up and tear out and leave the rest of them standing there. And they're gonna run over the call and you shoot that cow and you may or may not call these other ones in, and then you'll have some of them that are more little b I use her as an example a lot.

That's one of my more popular coats that she's a dominant female, and so she's pretty aggressive. She's a, she's an aggressive cow towards other cows, but she's very skittish and I guess [00:56:00] suspicious would be a good word, when she, anything that she does, whether it's sound related or approaching, something, food or whatever, she's very cautious.

Suspicious, methodical. She's gonna circle, she's always gonna put her nose on something before she goes to it. You can, I can take scraps out there and dump it out on the ground and she knows exactly what it is. The other ones will. Running there and as fast as they can get there to try to beat the other ones, she's more standoffish.

And even though she knows and has played the game every day her whole life, she's gonna put her nose on it by circling to the downwind side of that. Same thing on the sounds. When I play those sounds, she's a code that you're probably not gonna kill because she either doesn't come to the call, she'll stand back and listen.

Or as she goes to it, she's gonna circle it and she wants to put her nose on it and [00:57:00] just figure everything out with her nose before she commits. And then some of, she's an extreme on one end, where those hard chargers are an extreme on the other end like the couch shortcake or stanky, some of those, they're hard chargers.

They're really aggressive and they're, soon as they hear the sound, they're running to it. Those are the, and then you've got cows that fall somewhere in between, where they're. Not as extreme as little B or, but they're not hard chargers either, typically, and not everything, they don't always do the same thing every time.

But tendencies and personality traits from one coat to the next. That I think relates to the wild coats too. So I think there are cows that are pretty much uncontrollable just because of their personality to where they're not, they're just not gonna do that. They're not gonna, they're too suspicious, too cautious, skittish, whatever.

Some people would say smart. Whatever the deal [00:58:00] is, those cows are gonna be difficult to kill and will and if you know that couch there, let's just say at Howles or you've seen it or whatever, that's where those cows are the ones that leave you frustrated. Where you go out there and you call and you're calling to a code because it howled or whatever, and you just never can get it killed because it won't commit to the call.

And I think part of that is just personality of the codes. Yeah. Some of them are, some of 'em are like people, some of 'em are, they're going, they're gonna be the live at the party and other ones won't even attend. That makes a lot of sense cause you always you always hear, Nope, there's no way you're gonna kill that dog.

It's been called call to too many times. Educated. It's educated or something like, yeah, I seen it, but can't get 'em to come in. But that makes a lot of sense, e each dog's got its own personality. And that's one question I was just gonna ask Tori, I don't know how easy it is for you to be able to answer this one because [00:59:00] I don't know how you pull this off and you might have tried to do it, but what is your opinion on educated dogs?

I know they're smart. I've watched my German Shepherd who is in the same family as a coyote, basically. They're all dogs canines, he puts his hand on a hot stove in a dog world. He's not gonna do it again for a while. Yep. But I was early on. Have you been able to like, watch any of that?

Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent convinced that they're one of the, they learn quicker than just about anything. I believe they're one of the smartest sometimes I hate to use the word smart with animals, but if you're going to use that word, coats are one of the smartest animals out there and they learn, educate extremely fast.

And I was a skeptic of that when early on in my early calling days. I didn't want to give a cow, I didn't wanna give an animal that much credit. These smart, I hear all these people talking about [01:00:00] these smart coats and they're educated and they're pressured, and which I do believe in the pressured deal with any animal, but I didn't really believe that these cows were smart enough to learn these sounds and certain things like that, that quick to where you couldn't maybe call 'em with that same sound again.

Now I have a completely different belief and it's from testing on those counts. When I first got 'em and first started testing sounds, I would let those counts run all the way into the call smell of the call. They would hear the sound, they would figure it out. They knew it was bogus and once they got up there, smelled it and figured out what the deal was, they'd lose interest in the course because it wasn't what they didn't see what they thought they heard.

And it only takes one or two times. For them coming in. If I let them figure out what a sound is, even though they're not getting shot at, even though they're not getting scared when they figure it just, that just adds [01:01:00] to it in a hunting scenario where you shoot that, you know there's a negative that happens along with it, like a shot or them smelling you or something like that just adds to it and makes it even worse.

In my case, they're just coming in and figuring out that, all right, that sound is not what I heard, and it doesn't take 'em, but one or two times and then as soon as they hear the sound I was talking about, being able to watch from their point of view. Yeah, you play a sound that triggered 'em immediately, and I don't care how long you wait, you can I've tested this, you can run whatever rabbit sound and it triggers 'em immediately and they run in there and they figure it out, smell the call.

They know it's bs. It doesn't take long. And I don't care how long you wait, you can hit that sound again and they'll, it gets their attention. They listen to it for a second and they don't trigger on it. They know, they've learned that it's not real. It's no different than if you, most [01:02:00] dogs, if you whistle at 'em, they come there and they get petted or whatever, that whistle will trigger 'em.

But if you whistle at 'em and they come up there and there's a negative response to it, you kick him or whatever, it doesn't take, that ain't coming to the whistle one or two times and he's not coming. He knows, they figured that out and they remember it. And it doesn't matter if you wait two or three days or a year, they remember it.

And the cows are the same way. I've had 'em do other stuff. For example, we feed up a lot of scrap meat. My wife will pick up, stuff that's about to spoil, about to go outta date. Coach will get it. I try to supplement 'em with a lot of that stuff. And I always, usually I would have it in a bucket and they were familiar with the bucket and all that kind of stuff.

I went down there one day with it in the, that cellophane wrapper and that noise one time and scared 'em [01:03:00] and they didn't know what it was, but it was a they viewed it as a negative, scary deal. And it took E, even though I didn't go back with that. That one incident took several days after to get over because they were anticipating that noise again, even though it only happened one time.

And I picked up on that I can change, like when I'm videoing them, I can change tripods or change something about my setup. And I'm using that for an example because I did that. I changed. Tripod's got a new tripod. I don't know if it was the smell, the look of it, because it was a little different, there were things about it that were different that I didn't think that they would pick up on, but there was something about that.

It was probably the smell more than anything, but I had trouble videoing them and so I had to leave that tripod sitting in the woods down there for them to check out and, while I wasn't around before I could start getting the [01:04:00] same kind of footage with new equipment. And so those are some examples and a pile more that change my mind about how fast cows educate.

They are that's disappointing. Not only do they educate, but they do extremely, I was kinda hoping, I was kinda hoping Tory's no, they're dumb as fuck, man, like this, do whatever you want. Do you find, like out in the hunting world, I'm sure you hit certain places numerous times throughout the year or whatever the case may be.

Do you think a dog. Are they more likely to come in if they've been shot at, or if they've been smelled, if they smelled you? Is there one that's worse than the other? If I know, if a coyote smells me, I gotta give it this amount of time before I even try. Or on the other side if I shot at it and am I ever gonna be able to call that dog in again?

Have you ever had anything like that? Cause we, we have an internal debate. I think it's actually worse to be smelled than it is to shoot at 'em. That's just me. That's my personal opinion of it, [01:05:00] is I feel like if they smell you they know what happened. If you shoot at 'em, they hadn't quite put the puzzle together and they might just think, what the hell just happened?

But, so I always thought it'd be better to, miss a shot than it would be to get busted. But that's just, yeah I think you're right about that. I think if they usually, if they smell you, it's over with. I've seen instances where, A coach gets shot at, they don't know what's happening.

Maybe they run off, call 'em back in stuff like that. As far as, when I was talking about how fast they educate, I'm not saying that you can't go back and call up coats and or even use the same sounds and call 'em back up. I think when you're in that hunting situation, you know how much they're, they educate and they're pretty smart and all that, but I don't know to what degree they're able to tie everything together that's going on.

So they're running in and they're listening to a sound, but they don't get to come all the way in the situation I'm describing. They're coming all the way to the sound, [01:06:00] figuring out the sound, smelling the call, listening to it at a few feet, figuring out that sound is bogus in a hunting situation, I think maybe you're able to get by with messing up and them not necessarily associated with the sound because how many times are coats out there?

Doing their thing and they run across a human in the woods or something that scares 'em or throws off whatever's going on that they may not tie the two together. So I think sometimes when we're hunting a good thing is that even though they educate really quick, I don't know how it may take a few times before they associate, all right, I was coming into this sound that triggered me and then here's this dumb ass sitting over here messing things up.

I smell him, he shoots at me, whatever. I don't know that they necessarily tie the two things together. Those two things together. That makes sense. Then now [01:07:00] they could just be like, oh, that farmer ruined that rabbit for me. Cuz he's over there. Yeah. Yeah. If it happens over and over again, with pressured coats to where you go to this farm and you've called these coats in and you screwed it up and they get away.

I think you can go back again and maybe call 'em up possibly using the same sounds. But if that happens over and over again, whether it be by the same person or if there's more multiple people hunting the area and there's a coat that is, that gets called up a handful of times and doesn't get killed, then that coat probably starts.

If it happens numerous times and he's coming into a sound and he just keeps having a negative, something happen, he's gonna stop coming. That, that's when I think you start getting into what you hear. A lot of people call him pressured coach or educated coach to where they've just been burned.

They've had their ears burned multiple times to certain sounds or just sounds in general, and then it makes 'em [01:08:00] hard to call. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Reminds me of the one from this year. You and me were night hunting. I did the meme that song You ruined everything. Oh yeah. We called it a triple.

They got within 2020 yards. 20 yards and missed all of them. But we didn't even get it. That was towards the end of the season. We didn't get to go back after 'em, which I think's a good thing cuz Yeah. They haven't been touched since then. And, hopefully got pups on the ground and they get territorial with it and we can handle business chase after them in a week or so.

Yeah. But yeah. I don't know. It's just, it's super cool. It's interesting. So if I walked out in the woods with you, them coyotes would have an issue with it. Like you, oh yes. You and your wife, you and your wife are their alphas or whatever you wanna call it. Or maybe you're not even, but they have a comfort level with you that they know your scent, they know who you are.

Obviously they'll let you touch 'em in some instances where you were just can't remember the one you again this morning that you were holding. But the picture. It made me think of [01:09:00] just your dog chilling with you. She didn't seem to have any issue with you being right there and but if I was standing near you, that would not happen. They act just they act just like wild cows to strangers. If they smell, I made the mistake. I had a couple buddies that wanted to look at 'em. This was with that first batch we talked about, and they're all over. My wife and I walked down there with a couple buddies and I, how, and they come running in just like normal and they get, and all of a sudden they, I think they smelled him and they're gone.

And then it took two or three days when I would how 'em back up. They're standing out there, head bobbing and doing that stuff that cows do because they're anticipating, that strange smell. Or person or whatever they were thinking, they're anticipating that being there. And so it took a few days and after that I knew better than to make that mistake again.

That's crazy. But and that goes back to the personality deal too, and peck in order. The [01:10:00] more dominant counts seem to be more they're easier to handle, they're more they from one, they try to keep the other ones run off, they're jealous or, kinda like dogs would be, but, and then some of 'em just have that personality from the time they're little all the way through to where they're more standoffish.

Skittish. I've got some that I can record all of them at really close range, just a few feet. But there are some that don't wanna be handled or touched, they'll eat right beside you. Occasionally I might be able to touch 'em on the nose. And then there are other ones that'll jump all over.

They'll jump, I can catch 'em in the air or, And then some of them are more standoffish with me than they are my wife and vice versa. And this, that's just a personality deal with them. So it depends on the coach. Some of them are more just like kids, if that's what you want to call it.

Yeah. Some of them are more accepting of us than other ones. That's interesting. But and as they age, some of them tend to get [01:11:00] a little less friendly and not in an aggressive way. I've never had one try to bite me or show any aggression at all. They play and they play really rough.

They'll bloody you up. They're not like a dog when they jump up on you and they bite and nip and scratch, they break the hide, about like getting scratched by a briar or something. But they as they age, a lot of times they get to where they. May not wanna be handled as much, may not want you to pick em up.

Stuff like that. It like being like a crank some old man. Yeah. It's like the old man on his porch, get off my porch or get off my lawn. As they get older, they cranky. That makes sense. Like what, what's considered an old coyote? Do you have any of your originals left are row, boom and smack.

Are they still alive? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And that litter is, when I say we spent time with them, we spent the majority of our time, daylight, and [01:12:00] night, day and night. We spent the majority of our time with those cows for that first year plus. And so they are, they're different, a little different than some of the other ones that I've raised just because that time spent and they are still around, Ru is one of the, she's, she gets all over you.

Just likes the attention, the affection. They're anxious to, to meet and greet and, but some of the other ones, I don't expect them, but some of 'em have, like I said earlier, some of 'em will stay around usually about a year, almost like that family bust up timeframe. When they start busting up, some of them just, leave or I see 'em, on occasion I may see 'em in one of the cow pastures or something. But it's, the original group is still around and that's cool. It's cause of the amount of time invested in them. That's awesome. That's pretty cool.

I just, like I said, that was one of the biggest [01:13:00] things I was excited to talk to Tori about was, you don't know anybody that. Can stand with a coyote. TUPE told 'em jealous as hell. Have you ever have you ever thought just for a second about if you got a baby, just going, I could just turn this into my pet.

There's, I know people that it wouldn't go very well, and I think it's illegal. I don't know, but probably like I'm just No it's actually legal here. You can have up, oh, there you go. Six as pets. I don't know how Missouri is or what, but yeah, I don't know if Missouri certain states have different ones.

People ask me about that all the time. Yeah, we can have up to six. It used to be everything. Deer. They've taken deer off of that cause of C w D and I think maybe skunks or something. But we can have fox, bobcat, cow, possum, coon, multiple different animals. As long as you, as long as you take 'em by hand.

From the wild. You can't raise 'em. You can't meaning breed 'em. Breed 'em. Yeah. Can't breed 'em. And you can't cross state lines with them or anything like that. No [01:14:00] permits or anything like that required. A lot of states it's legal if you have the right paperwork. I just happen to live in one of those states that luckily doesn't take away all your rights.

That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. But even and because, cause of the sixth deal, I said we've pinned some before. We've done all of that different stuff. And going back to what you mentioned. Yes. Initially I was thinking, I'm gonna, I'm gonna turn one of these into my sidekick coat pit.

They are terrible pits, not obedience, they're rough. Yeah. People hit me up all the time, man. I want, I'd love to have one as a pit. No, you, and there are some people, if you took one single one, you could have it as a pit, but they're not like a dog where they're obedient, they're not, you're not gonna train 'em to not shit in your house or, tear your stuff up, any of that.

My wife cheer your cat, my wife would be out. Yeah. All of that. They're gonna be, they're gonna be a pain, you're gonna wanna [01:15:00] put a bullet in his head more than likely. Yeah. Before it's all over with. And the way, with the way the laws are, that's part of the reason that, that I do the free range deal too, is because even though I can have six, I wanna record more.

So as long as I don't, as long as I don't ever put 'em in captivity and I just be freeing these wild cow pumps in the wild. I'm legal. That's cool. So that's part of it too. And I fool with enough of 'em that I can afford to, if one of 'em runs off, usually I've got the bulk of the sounds by the time that happens anyway.

So if they make it to a year old and I get from the time they're pups up until they're adults and howling and then they leave, I'm sometimes, I'm almost glad that they leave just because I'm done with them. I've got what I need off of them. Yeah. And something, I don't get attached to 'em.[01:16:00]

A lot of people get attached to animals. It's just kinda the way I was raised, we always had hunting dogs and stuff and I liked my dogs and, liked the different animals. Livestock we always had a pile. Animals. Yeah. Of all kinds. And even as a kid, I would get. I guess you could call it attached, but they were still, I always made that separation between this is an animal, it's not part of my family, you know that.

Yeah. I don't look at 'em that way. And so some people get really attached to their animals and my wife gets really attached. And that was my last, I'll keep that separation. That and that's good. That was actually gonna be my last question before we moved on into call, like summer calling.

But we talked about it a little before, recording. That's me. But for one animal. And that's a dog, right? Every dog, like my dog, my German Shepherd, he just passed away a couple months ago. That's Micah. It was like I lost a kid, man. Yeah. It was a worst damn day of my life. There [01:17:00] was a lot of crying involved.

Yes. And, but cats. You name it, I could. I'm not cruel, but I could give a shit about a cat I, I don't care about, but, Kyle obviously looks a lot like a dog and especially a German Shepherd. When I see a coyote, I think of that type of animal. And one of those questions I was gonna ask you was, how did you like, draw, figure out how to separate from your coyotes when you go out coyo hunting and you're like, Hey, I was just pass petting one of you earlier today, but I'm gonna shoot this one in the face.

Like, how did you make that separation? And that's a good way to put it. It was really easy for me from day one when I got those pups. They were a tool. They were, I wanted 'em so that I could get some, my primary goal was to get sounds and learn about 'em so that I could kill a pile of 'em.

That's what I wanted 'em for, and that's what they still are to me. I, people ask me all the time man, does that make it hard for you to shoot coats now that you raise these scouts and[01:18:00] you've got these pet coats? I don't look at 'em as pets. I look at 'em as, I like 'em.

I enjoy 'em. I they'll live fat and happy until whatever happens to 'em naturally. But I'm not attached to 'em in a way that they're anything other than a tool to me. And I, not only that, I enjoy being able to take those sounds and everything that I've learned from 'em and apply that to my hunting and, I get a lot of satisfaction and it's very rewarding when I record these codes.

And then I use their sounds to call up another one and it works and I kill it. And what's even better than that is seeing so many other people take these sounds and go out there and kill a lot of codes. That's what, yeah, that's pretty cool. That's good stuff for me. That's rewarding. And that's where I get the satisfaction from doing all of this.

So I, I've never, now my wife, on the other hand, she used to hunt, [01:19:00] hunt with me year round, summertime. Now she doesn't really care to because she's raised them and she's bottle fed 'em, and, that whole deal, she's not as apt to hunt 'em when they're little and stuff like that. She doesn't wanna, yeah.

She does make that connection because she gets attached very attached to all her animals, it's a, yeah. It's a sad day when something happens to 'em and me, I'm just, I'm tell you that mother motherly instinct, I'm gonna tell you right now, if I bottle fed a buck phone and that little fucker turned into 180 inches, it'd be hard for you to He dead.

No, it wouldn't be covered. I guarantee you, you wouldn't be able to. I don't, dear. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I wouldn't. But that's, honestly, you think about it's a symbiotic relationship. You're using them and they're using you for the same, same type of you. They get some benefits get, they get free food, they're getting fed.

They, they're a wild animal that's got an easier go of it because this guy is helping us out, whereas Yeah [01:20:00] you're getting something out of it as well. It's a, a symbiotic relationship in that sense. Yeah, and I know that they're not my friend. I know they don't care about me.

I know that they don't love me, and I'll have people, talk about that and they'll say all the. These animals love you and care. That's bull, that's bs. They're, they want food. They're just trying to eat. And under the right circumstances, they would eat me. If one of 'em acted a certain way or done, tried to attack me, bite me, shown aggression to me, I would've no trouble.

I would've no trouble taking it out with my bare hands. I dropped that sucker. Yeah. I just, they're just a tool to me. Yeah. I gotcha. Speaking of tools, y'all are probably, 24 hours, 365, y'all can kill coyotes. We have a small portion to where we can't hunt coyotes during Turkey season unless it's with Turkey methods, meaning a shotgun or something like that.

So we're [01:21:00] getting amped up starting the eighth, we're gonna be able to go out and start calling in coyotes again. It's early, it's obviously early season pups are starting to hit the ground and come up, as you were talking about earlier. What are some things that we should really key in on this time of year?

This is one of my favorite times to hunt, honestly. Now is right, especially after finding promethrin. I don't worry about ticks as much anymore. And we like to go out and hunt summer coyotes before the, the grass gets too crazy. And then especially after that, like that first hay cut when the grass is short again.

This is getting to be one of my favorite times to hunt 'em. But, summer coyotes are gonna be different than, fall, middle winter coyotes. What what's some of the favorite things you like to do when you're going after these dogs? About this time of year, once those pups start getting outta the ground, which we're getting about to that time, to where the first one, some of them are already outta ground.

Out of the ground, the earliest born. And so over the next, couple of months, that's what we'll be [01:22:00] into. And I call that the pup rearing timeframe and that's when things get vocal. So primarily hows and pup distress, those are gonna be the go-to type sounds, lone house, family group, house pup, distresses killed.

Probably the majority of the cows will be killed off of those sounds. Prey sounds still work. You could use prey sounds, but those counts are so territorial. Then with those family groups and that P room timeframe that I like to save, the prey, distress sounds, or at least the bulk of them for those fall winter timeframes so that you're not burning your ground with your prey.

Distress sounds, especially when pup distresses and hows work. So good. And those little pup distress sounds like your or really just any of 'em, but especially your littler pup distress sounds. They're serving a dual purpose because they're not only, an instinctual trigger from the, triggering the parents, but they're [01:23:00] also a pre distress sound for other cows.

They'll come in to kill an eat those p so you're getting a dual, a dual purpose deal running pup distress sounds, and then those hows a lot of times will get those cows to vocalize, give away their location so you can move in close to 'em. A lot of times they will come in on hows only the whole everything, the pumps and the adults will come in on the hows and if they don't show up on those, hows a little bit of pump distress when you're close enough to 'em?

That's the key to this time of the year is distance because they are, a lot of your couch, especially your vocal couch, are gonna be P room and they have a, they've got their main overall territory. And then they have that p rearing area, which is kinda like a playpen. So it's a smaller core area that those pups stay in. And the adults work around that as satellites. So they'll leave those pumps in a certain area. And if you go out and lo, I [01:24:00] do a lot of locating, I'm big on locating, especially this time of the year because you can locate any time from now through pretty much August. And those coats, unless something moves 'em, they will typically stay pretty much in that area.

So if you hear that family group or you hear, if you hear two or more cows a pair, or especially if you hear the pups mixed in, then that area should hold good until, August or maybe even into September, depending on how old those pups are. And when the family bus up starts taking, a lot of people call it p dispersal.

I don't like to call it p dispersal because. Something else I learned about coats is if you read about it, it gives the impression that fall hits and these pumps disperse and they go off and travel, miles away looking for a new home. And that's not necessarily true. Matter of fact, it's, that's rarely the case.

A lot of times those, [01:25:00] the family group will bust up to where they're not together all the time, but that group of cows is still in the same area. And some of them will stay in that same area for, up to a couple years or so before they actually branch out. I noticed that on one of the videos, I was watching a yours today.

Y'all killed a a black one. Yeah, a black coyote about a month ago, I think It was on your YouTube. And that's the first thing I noticed. And I've seen you do that before, but then I forget and then I watch again and I'm like, oh, okay. Tori's locating before they go hunt. Like us, we get out of our truck and we're like, listen, we're gonna go make our set over here.

This is where we're gonna set up. But in your situation, you guys, it looked like you got outta your truck, put the call in the air and located Yeah. And it ended up working out to where you also killed him. Right there in that same spot it appears, but, yeah. So you're locating not really worrying about getting 'em to come in at this time [01:26:00] of year.

You're just trying to say, okay, that's where they're at, and you'll make a move right then and there. If they reply 800 yards away, let's say in on the farm or somewhere in the area that you have permission on, you'll move in and then make your set a lot of times. Yeah. The way that I u usually go about locating this time of the year is i'll about sunset or, roughly sunset, I'll get in the truck and I'll start riding my hunting areas.

When I hunt a pile of public ground, I've got a lot of, so I've got a lot of ground that I can cover. So I'll just take several nights, ahead of time. I may not even hunt those coats for, several days or even weeks sometimes. And I'll just ride around and I'll start marking groups of coats.

I don't mark singles because if I hear a single how I typically don't mark it this time of the year unless it's right before daylight. And then I will hunt it as soon as it gets daylight, if it's a single. But typically I'm looking for groups of coats and [01:27:00] I'll mark those coats with intentions of hunting sometime between now and August, usually.

So I'll ride around when I hear 'em, how I'll take my map out and drop a pin on where I think those cows are at. And then when I get ready to come back and hunt, let's just say it's gonna be the next morning, and I've located four or five groups. Then at daylight I will start hunting through those codes.

Now if I was night hunting, then if I located 'em, I would make my move right then. Sure. I would go ahead and start taking those codes out right then. So it's just whatever the situation is. And then on the video that you mentioned, that was a unique deal where we had a call on coats messing with cows.

It was a really big area, gigantic fields. They heard the coats on one side, sometimes other side. Other times of course we've got wind direction to deal with, multiple factors coming into play. So when we pulled up there at daylight, I was expecting those couch to be, [01:28:00] on one side or the other.

More than likely. Just so happened they were in a draw out in the middle of the field, not too far from us. And occasionally we locate you, you end up right on top of the couch, but it's rare. And so in that situation when we howled, instead of them answering back, they just came to us cause they were already pretty close.

But sometimes I will use locating right at daylight when I'm planning on making a stand on a farm or an area and I don't necessarily know where the coats are and I want to get a location on 'em for one, so I know what, how I wanna set up with the wind and stuff like that. And what kind of, what kind of move I wanna make.

Yeah. Especially when it's a new area where, I don't know, some of these places you hunt a handful of times you know, like probably some of y'all's farms y'all have hunted 'em enough to know right at the couch are typically over here. They're typically in this draw or you know going on in to where you can go blind, call those areas.

It usually holds coats you don't necessarily need to locate. But a lot [01:29:00] of times when the, my cow population is pretty sporadic, so I'll have little pockets here and little pockets there. And then I hunt a lot of new ground that I've never been to before, so I like to I like to just get an idea of where the coats are at.

You pull up at a spot, this side of the south side of the road may look good and have an eye peel. And if I was gonna make a blind stand, that's probably where I'd go. But there's been a lot of times where what looked good wasn't good. And I'll locate and I'll figure out, alright, the coats are not where I think they should be.

Just by looking at the map or looking at the train. They're actually over here in this little patch of bull crap. And in order to hunt 'em, we're gonna have to go around to the other road to get the wind right or whatever. And so I use locate for multiple reasons, that being one of them. And then because I've got and anywhere, even if it's, even if it's in more populated [01:30:00] areas, I don't like to sit down and call unless I know I'm calling to a account.

So I'll go out and locate and put all this stuff together, so to up my odds. So when I sit down, if I make five stands that morning, there's guarantee I may not call up a code on all five stands. I still have some blanks, but I have really high call up rates when I know where those scouts are at.

And can go in there and set up with that in mind and have as much in my favor as possible. When I make the stand, man, that's a hell of an idea. So you basically if you had a new property, a lot of times you'd go out, let's say you're planning on hunting tomorrow morning, tonight, you would've went out, located them in theory.

They'd be coming out of their dens for the evening. Getting up, going around, moving around. And then the next morning, if you were going back to hunt 'em, in theory, they would be around that area again, back to den back up for the day. Yeah. Typically what you'd be looking for this time of the year, what the coats [01:31:00] are doing, so those pumps will, once they come out of the den this time of the year, they're probably still right there around the den.

And she's probably feeding 'em about twice a day outside the den. And like I said while ago, a lot of times your pups are gonna be, whether they're still in the den. And then once they get, they get 4, 5, 6 weeks old, they start spending less and less time, and then they completely abandon the den.

So by the time they're, I seven, eight weeks old, they start sleeping on top of the ground and just hiding in whatever cover there is, just like the adults do. And the adults a lot of times are gonna be, they won't be right there with those pups. They come and go checking in, regurgitating food, feeding the pups, and working their way around that.

I call it the playpen area. You'll hear call rendezvous areas and stuff like that. But that pup rearing the area, that little core area. So when you go out and locate, what I'm listening for is the pups and because those [01:32:00] pups are gonna be a pen that I can rely on, sometimes you'll hear those pups here and those adults you may hear some adults sound off and they're two, 300 yards away.

And so I also, I don't pay that much attention to where those adults, how at. I wanna know where those pups are and then I can target. Those adults, if I want to target to adults. So some people don't wanna shoot the pups, some people want to kill 'em all. It just depends on what, and I, this is something that I learned from hunting.

And then also watching the coats and learning that, where those adults spend their time in relation to the pups, especially after the pups get a little size on them. So you can take those P rear areas, use that as your pen, and know that those adults are probably working a perimeter around that.

And a lot of times when you go in there to set up, the adults are not with the pups, they're outside that. So if you want to [01:33:00] target the pups and possibly call the pups and the adults, you can move right in there on those pups and set up close to them. And then when you start calling, a lot of times those pups are gonna run over you right off the bat, but you can still call the adults in.

If you want to target the adults first, then I would stay back, three from wherever I've got those pumps marked at. Something I've started doing in the last couple years, I'll stay back away from those pumps three, 400 yards. Those pups are probably not gonna come that distance to you. So you can set up and call, but you're still plenty close enough to be, to trigger everything with those adults.

Your hows your pump distresses, you're still tight enough in on those pups to potentially avoid calling the o those, but call those adults up with the hows and the pup distresses, and then if you want to, you can move on in tighter and get those pups too. So it's just just whatever you're wanting to do with whether you wanna kill [01:34:00] the pups or not.

I would shoot the shit out of a pup. No, right now I'm just saying you kill a little five pound, 10 pound pup. Do you get it full body mounted? No. Yes, I don't think so. That would be awesome. I don't know how good the coat is on a little pup at this time. They're probably pretty thin. Would be my Yes.

And as far as prey distress stuff, fond distress. Especially when you hit that June timeframe. Because that's, I think, yeah. I think they have a built-in instinctual trigger where they know certain things that are gonna take place. Just like bear will wait on a salmon run before the fish even get there.

The bear already there because it, they instinctively know that it's coming. Yeah. I think cows do the same thing with pond hitting the ground. They know it's coming, they're ready for it, and they really key on that for that period of time that, that the pond are little and so fond distress is something that I will.

I primarily use the hows [01:35:00] and the pup distresses and I'll mix fond distress in for a prey distress. And then as you move a little deeper into, and I also run multiple pump distress sounds. So I'll start with young pups, little bitty ones like newborn and they're not really even the distress. They're more hungry pumps where they're just whimpering and whining in the DN hungry, ready to be fed.

Then you can move on up. I've got all my sounds in age classes, one week, two week, three week, all the way up to about 16 weeks. And then I start gapping 'em out cause their voice changes in those early weeks. Their voice changes a lot. Once they get about 16 weeks old, they kinda, it doesn't change as much.

So I taper off on recording 'em as often, but I'll usually play and I don't play sounds very long either, three, four minutes, something somewhere in there. And I, that's also from learning about. The coats and how they trigger coats cover a lot of ground, typically when they trigger. And [01:36:00] if you play a sound three or four minutes, a cow can cover, half a mile plus easily in that timeframe if they're gonna trigger on that sound.

And if you just keep letting that sound play for 8, 10, 12 minutes, the same sound typically, you'll have some couch show up late to the same sound here and there, but more often than not it's a sound that doesn't trigger 'em very well, and you're just burning their ears with that sound, right?

You're just wearing 'em out with it. So I'll play a pup distress. I'll pick up, one of those, got milk, newborn type sound, birthday pumps, something like that. Run it for 2, 3, 4 minutes tops, and then I'll jump two or three weeks, so go from that newborn to a three or a four week, play it a couple minutes, and then jump from that to a six eight week.

And then, I may mix that fond distress in there for three or four minutes. And if you hadn't called something up by then, especially if you know you're on couch, you've heard 'em or you've located 'em or whatever, then I'll [01:37:00] move into those pump fights and then I'll end with the dump fights. So I'll typically play a couple of pump fights of different age classes or different types, and then I'll play some adult fights of different types.

And you also have different type fight sounds that trigger for different reasons. So you've got peck and order fights, you've got food fights. This is something else that I've never heard touched on and I didn't pick up on it until I started watching cow triggering to different sounds. And then I could even hear why those fights were different.

So you've got the pecking order fights and you've got the food fights, and you've got the breeding fights, and then you've got all of those sounds relate with the exception of the breeding. You've got the peck and order P stuff, you've got the food fights associated with pups, and then you have those associated with adult coats and mix the breeding stuff in with adult coats too.

So those are multiple [01:38:00] different triggers that, a lot of people overlook. They'll say I'm going in with a fight. And so they'll pick one fight, maybe a buck fight, maybe a adult fight, might be a food fight, a breed fight, whatever. They'll pick one fight and that's what they play. And it may not trigger 'em where, let's just say they picked a pecking order, buck fight, and it didn't trigger 'em.

An adult food fight could have pulled those coats right on top of it. So you just never know what they want to hear. But when I'm running a sequence, anytime of the year, I'm gonna incorporate multiple sounds that might trigger 'em for different reasons. But for the summertime calling, it's gonna be pub house and adult house, and then I'll do a family group house.

Then I'll do some type of social interaction sound, which is, like the little wrestling matches and stuff when they come back together. And then I'll go into those multiple different pup sounds, mix the fond distress in there. [01:39:00] Then two or three different pup fights, two or three different adult fights that are happening for different reasons.

And I guarantee you, if you, if people will structure their sequences that way, they will kill a lot of cows. They just, if they're calling two cows and they structure their sequence to where they're hitting all of those different types of sounds, They will kill workouts.

That that, that hand gesture I just made was me going Noted. Check mark check. Yeah. One hour, 27 minutes. I will remember that. No doubt. Speaking of fawn and distress Micah and I actually share the same birthday and we it's at the end of May and the last two or three years, him and I have went up north.

We call it up north northern part of Missouri. And we go Kyle hunting together. We go, we stay up there overnight on a Friday, and then we hunt all day on a Saturday. And last year was the last year? Yeah, we were we actually bumped two coyotes on the way into [01:40:00] our set, so we picked the right spot.

Just a little too good. And they took off. So we ended up still sitting and we're like all they did was see us. They just could have thought we were farmers. Who knows? We get through the calling sequence and I did fawn in distress. And how far do you think those deer were away?

A thousand yards. At least. They're 800 to a thousand yards. We had five or six, eh, no, three or four, yeah. Doze 800 to a thousand yards away. And we could see 'em because it's one big giant open field. And those doze sprinted all the way to our call, they got up and sniffed the call. They came all the way to the call trying to figure out whose fawn was in trouble.

I, I'm assuming? Yes. No coyotes come, but for deer did, yeah. For grown ass do. I thought, we thought it was coyotes at first. They were running so hard. Oh, they and most deer crazy aggressive at time of the year. Yeah, no, they, and they [01:41:00] were definitely coming to they were being protective of that fn.

But that was one of the cooler things I had seen. But that's some great tips for summer stuff. We're gonna be out, like Micah said, pretty soon. Hoping to see some cool stuff this year. I don't know if we're gonna get to go, by the way. I don't know if we're gonna go or not. I know I can't go that week.

I can't either, but we'll figure it out. Yeah. But Tori man we would love, we'd love to keep talking to you, but we've already used an hour and a half of your time. Before we hop off here, why don't you talk about how people can get ahold of M F K game calls, follow you, and then get some of your stuff that you you sell.

Pretty much everything is gonna be under Mfk game calls. That's YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, I think got a buddy outta Kentucky helping me out with some social media. I think he started us a TikTok account today, so that'll be under MF K game calls as well. Is that Buddy outta Kentucky? I'm not Instagram, John Collins.

Is that who you're talking about? No, it's actually Case Covington who is buddies with Yeah, I know Case. Yeah he's doing some stuff with us now and he's he's a little [01:42:00] younger, so he's getting me hooked up with all the Instagram TikTok and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. But all of that is, will be under Mfk game calls.

And then of course, my personal stuff's under my name Tory Cook. So just check 'em out. Mfk game calls.com if they wanna order stuff from the website and all the social media stuff, YouTube, MFK game calls. And might I add, Micah and I, we've talked about this before, we're big fans of logos. Like some of the companies we work with or even companies we don't work with, I'm like, that's a badass logo.

That logo sucks. You got one of the coolest logos out there. Just so you know, your M FK logo is pretty badass. So whenever I get that X 48, I also be getting a hat along with it. Oh yeah. Yeah man, I just wanted to congratulate you on whoever designed that logo cuz it's well done. I hand drew that.

No shit. Really? I hand drew that logo in several years ago, early on. Yeah. Well done. And I'm not Appreciate it. [01:43:00] Yeah, it's I didn't wanna go with the clip art type stuff and Yep. So anyway, I don't even get me started on logos. We've went, it's just a, I mean we've got two different logos now.

We've got a Whitetail logo and a Coyo logo. And the Coyote logo is loosely based on what a buddy of ours drew for us. And then we had, Micah's cousin actually is a graphic designer and he took it and tried to make it. Related to our deer. And it was, I'm like, I don't know. I you're never happy with what you got.

You know what I'm saying? After you get done, you're like, man, I wish it would look more like that one or this one. But yours is is interesting and we like it, man. But Tory Cook, I appreciate it with Mfk game calls. We appreciate your time tonight and look forward to talking with you again, man.

Oh yeah. Enjoyed it. Appreciate y'all helping me out. All right, man. We'll see ya. See you.[01:44:00]

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