Traditional Hunting and American History

Show Notes

In this week’s [UNCENSORED] podcast by GoWild, we’ve got a special guest with Chris Powell of Houndsman XP. He talks about how he’s been #messinwithsquatchbot (if you haven’t yet, be sure to check out our very own AI built to help you get the most from our platform). We talk a little bit about our turkey season and Chris mentions he does some traditional flintlock hunting. Several of us are currently reading “The Frontiersman” by Allen W. Eckert, and we compare how tough traditional hunters were and how soft the modern hunter has become. We also get into a few tidbits of classic American history, including a bunch about Daniel Boone and local Kentuckiana lore. 

While we’re on the subject of American history, we talked to Chris about hunting dogs. The settlers used dogs for everything from hunting big game to defending against attackers, but these hounds were a little different than the ones we see today. Chris also mentioned how some of the hound breeds were introduced to North America and developed over the decades. 

Be sure to check out the Houndsman XP Podcast to learn a little more about hounds and hunting with dogs and how you can share your support for the entire sporting community.

Check out the Sportsmen's Empire Podcast Network for more relevant outdoor content!

If you like what you’re hearing, please leave us a rate and review!!

[UNCENSORED] by GoWild kicks off your week with shameful nonsense, inappropriate convictions, and unfiltered tales from the woods, waters and whatevers. [UNCENSORED] is a behind the scenes look at our adventures, failures, wins, embarrassing moments at trade shows, hilarious tales from the warehouse, and a good rant or three about the most recent tyranny from the Dark Lord of the Sith himself.

The show launches every Monday morning. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.


Show Transcript

[00:00:00] They're so good. They look alcoholic. The cans just resemble an alcoholic drink. I think it's the black top. Dan dumps the Celsius out and just pour a whitelaw into him. I was just, I was thinking, I saw the beer cans in the bathroom and then I saw that and I'm like, Hey, yeah, I'm not above it, but that's my cafe.

Caffeine for the morning. Little special guest uncensored in the flesh. Chris Powell, what's Buddy? Yeah, it's good to be down here with you guys. Mr. Hound, Isman XP in the building. Yep. Pretty cool. It's good to hang out with you guys, that's for sure. I've been messing with Squa bot, like actually messing with him.

Trying to get I, yeah. Yeah. The community's messing out by not communicating more with scotch. Are you messing with him? Half of our members mess with him, tease him and try to trick him up. And half of our members are actually trying to get good responses, which I developed my own hashtag.

Yeah. Messing with, he's like the leader of [00:01:00] messing with squat, messing with sas or messing with squat pot. Squat pot. Yeah. Yeah. He he's the one tormenting squat and finding all the weaknesses. We regularly talk about how soft he is. He is soft. Sometimes he gets real emotional on us.

Yeah. Can't handle that. And I'll, when he get, starts getting soft, it's Hey, it's okay. Squat spot, we'll bring you, we'll bring you along. And he is oh, thank you very much. Really appreciate your concern. Stuff like that. Yeah. Do you DM with him? No Glen dms with him, he'll send me screenshots of his dms with squash bot.

No way. Oh yeah. He'll just sit there and talk to him. That's cool. I think Glen needs a friend. I was about to say he needs a fake friend just to go back and forth with. It's a learning model, so the more you interact with it, the more squash bott. It's gonna sound like you. You're gonna have Aland and Crisp Bow.

There you go. Fellow of a Crisp, oh man. Crisp. I'll have him up to speed. I asked him if he could, if I could use my Y Terrier to hunt carpenter bees, and he gave me a. A lecture on why he shouldn't be killing carpenter bees. Yep, I saw that. Yeah. I was like, oh boy, [00:02:00] squash. But answer the question. The question, the answer is yes.

Yeah. So he's one of those, I got video of it happen. Yeah, it happens. California Redwood Quas, then he's got, he's from Oregon, left coast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. What you been up to, man? Just cranking out podcast material and training a crazy YG terrier. Yeah. Yep. To be steady to the fly water swat and then retrieve he won't retrieve the carpenter bees.

He's not there yet. He gets down there. He, it's a major thing though. When he sees the fly water come out, he hears the crack of the. Slice water, hitting the carpenter bee and hitting the ground. Man. He's in the flower beds and he's looking and he just shakes 'em. He shakes the life out of him.

Just tears him up. Yep. And then he eats 'em. So he is getting his bee pollen and supplements. Vitamin B. Yeah. Yep. Oh, nice. That's, I'll give you that. Vitamin B. Yeah. Have you tried using a bug assault yet? A what? A bug. Salt. No, it's like a, it's a little, oh, it looks like [00:03:00] a water gun, but it shoots salt. Shoots salt.

Yeah. I've seen those. And we've taken out some carpenter bees and flies. Salt. I'm gonna to get it. I'm going. I will train Tough to be steady to shot with the bug Salt. Steady, is that what it's called? Bug salt? Yeah. Bug of salt. Yeah. Be careful doing it at the house. My wife gets a little upset when I leave Salt.

Everywhere in the kitchen, you get flies in there and I'm running around the kitchen. So is it like table salt or is it like rock salt? No, just table salt. Table salt rock salt's. Like the blunder buster version. Like the slug version. The slug, yeah. It's buck shot. It's damage. It's pump. Knock on a bird with it.

Yeah. Yeah. It's pump action. One shot pump action. Yeah, buddy. That's awesome. That's right. It's pretty sweet. Been on any trips recently, got any coming up? No. No. I haven't been on any recently. I've got a ton that I need to go do. It's just trying to get outta here. It's crazy time of year.

You got, I'm not telling you guys anything. You guys have people show up for podcast 24 hours in advance, just all [00:04:00] kinds of stuff. For Chris Powell, we make it happen. I'm pretty important. Yeah. So do you hunt? Anything besides run dogs? Do you Turkey hunt or do you fish or do anything in the spring?

Did you Turkey hunt this season? I didn't. I did not. Turkey hunt, we did before season came in. We had turkeys gobbling everywhere and not a bunch, but normally back when the heyday of Turkey hunting, it was nothing that was stand out on the porch and hear 12 or 15 gobblers. And I think our.

Turkey populations are down, and so one's gotta just be asking for it right now. Just being incredibly stupid, like strutting up and down behind the pond. And I shot a, I killed a Turkey last year. Was it just out in the open or did you have to go after it? No, I circled up around, set up on it.

That's probably called him out of a field. Up the hill. Yeah. Had sitting right. I worked him back and forth. He would, I knew where his strep pa strip zone was, so I got up above him and [00:05:00] I knew there was a good trail coming up there. Calling a Turkey outta the field sometimes isn't.

Yeah. Isn't always successful. And I worked him for probably 45 minutes before he made the last fatal step in my case. It's never successful, so that works. Why not? I don't know. They don't like how I talk, figured out how Phil talks. Yeah I've been hunting my butt off and just close, but no cigar. One after the other.

Yeah. Just running around, putting miles in. And we got one more chance coming up Saturday before before a wedding. So I'm gonna be going out to a new plot of public land that we haven't hunted this year. We hunted last year and kinda see if we can seal the deal. I was trying to find a picture of a Turkey that I shot years ago.

We used to hunt with our flint locks, and there's actually a pursuit of hunting that's 18th century style hunting. Have you are you still reading the frontiersman? Heck yeah. Come like halfway through it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. [00:06:00] So you get the idea. Yeah. Our goal was to, and there's a whole group of people that do this sort of stuff.

It's called historical tracking. We always called it, Long hunting cuz we would actually pack in with all 18th century gear and hunt. Oh wow. And nothing modern allowed, wow. Yeah. So did you do like the buckskin clothes and everything? I've got all the gear moins. Yep. Oh man.

Or you just setting up in like a canvas, a-frame tent. Yeah. No. If you're packing in deep, we used to go down to rock Castle River. And if you hike up. If you camp at is it, or if you're pulling up B Rock at the Trail Trailhead at B Rock and you hike about six miles up the river and you make a hard left hand turn, there's a huge rock house down there.

Big rock shelter, big overhanging rock shelter. We've spent several nights in there. You never have to pack canvas with you just a bed roll. Yeah. Yep. And you just pack what? There's all kinds of historical documents and stuff on What the 18th century hunter [00:07:00] carried. Yeah. We carry way too much stuff as modern day hunters, but we like our comfort.

Those guys were such bad asses and I'm telling you, they survived. Every day was a survival deal for them. When you've done it, like we were, we packed into who's your national one year during the winter? And from the time we stepped off until we, the time we came out, you're either fixing gear, you're drying out moins, you're drying you're sewing up a tear and a shirt.

You're gathering firewood, you're cooking, it's nonstop. Yeah. Every day. And then you lay there through the night. And shiver and try to stay alive. Yeah, I remember reading about Indian tribes and they were like, tribes really had about a nine mile sphere of influence where they knew the terrain nine miles around.

Cuz nine miles was about the distance you could walk out and walk back in one day because, D. Spending a night out in the woods was a very risky endeavor, and [00:08:00] you only did that rarely. So it was like all these tribes could be relatively close together because if anyone was further out than nine miles, like you're only

Spending the night out past that once a month or whatever. Yeah. But yeah, so it's like a weird ancillary number of nine miles spheres. Cuz you could hike out and hike back in one day if you're in Native American shape. Yeah, no, that's, my sphere would be like two and a half miles, two and a half miles, quarter miles.

I'm starting to get 200 yards. Yeah. Anything beyond that. Don't worry about it. I was reading about it the other day, Simon Kitten, Simon Butler or whatever. Was elected to be the hunter for the fort that he was at, which was like, it was one that was like under siege by like Indian tribe, like the Shawnee or whatever.

Boonsboro or Harrisburg? It was. It was Harrisburg. Harrisburg. So it's when he was in Harrisburg. Yep. And so since he was the hunter, he, and there was Indians around, he couldn't just go out in broad daylight and go shoot a deer and drag it and do whatever. So what he had to do in the [00:09:00] winter was, Leave in the dead of night, go out to a spot, dig a hole.

And then how did he fashion this fire? He would dig a hole wide oak bark. That's right. Is smokeless. Is smokeless. Yep. And then pack it and put just two holes like going down into the fire pit, get over top of it with a blanket cover, like basically the insulate, the whole thing. And then he would just sit there like a blob and sleep crisscross applesauce.

With the two holes from the fire coming up into the blanket. And like he'd wake up with Three or four inches of snow around him and be like, huh, didn't know that happened. And then just go hunt. And he'd go shoot two deer. And how he would he would skin 'em and pack out, like he said, like around 200 pounds of meat.

He'd skin 'em, put it in the bucks, the skin in the hide and tie it up fast it into a backpack, throw on 200 pounds and truck back to the fort and feed all the. The people in Harrisburg while they're, we are a softer people. I like no doubt it's story after story like that man, like the Daniel Boone getting trapped or getting captured by the [00:10:00] Shawnee and escape.

Escape. Have you got the part where Simon got captured yet? Yeah. Where he got captured? Nah, then he's not, he's heading first, dude. It's, I think so they just like you. Wait, where I'm at in the book, they just got the Shawnee just captured Boone and the 20, or the however many, 30 some guys that were at the SALT mission.

Yeah. And Simon. Was off. He told Boone. Boone was like, Hey, you wanna come hunting with me? And he was like, no. If he'd have said yes, he'd have been with there with blue jacket. Who was his buddy earlier on in the story. Which is like a crazy full circle thing. But yeah, dude, I'm ate up with the story of these guys.

It makes me feel so, so soft. So I'm halfway through this book, through the Frontiersmen. Yeah. And I'm already looking at what my next ones are. Like am I gonna read another one in the Eckert series or am I gonna go find some. Some local Native American writing. Cuz that's what's interesting to me. Yeah.

There were some wild, contentious battles. And the shawnees in our area right here, they're talking about Louisville. Yeah. Yep. Here. A hundred percent. Yeah. Temsa got in [00:11:00] fights with like different settlers and stuff and took refuge in Southern Indiana. Like he went across that's where like he crossed the Ohio and Yep.

It's just, it's so wild. Most of the time you hear stories like growing up it was a lot of the famous Western. Exactly. Yeah. Like stories in the 18, that's what drew me to it. I used to teach Hunter Ed and I would always do the black powder muzz loader part. Okay. And go in and do that.

And I'd take my flint locks and stuff. Yeah. And I would tell the kids, it's like, how many of you like movies about. You know the Western culture, mountain man. And everybody was like, oh yeah, we like that. Now you ask him, it's like, what is that you talking about Yellowstone? Yeah, exactly.

I used to tell 'em, it's man, you don't know how much history is right here. In this area. Yeah, it's, it is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Clarksville, George Rogers. Clark. Yeah. Falls of Ohio. Falls of Ohio. Yeah. Pivotable. This was the precursor to St. Louis and the Western expansion right here where we're at.

[00:12:00] Yeah, and you had the, I mean you heard this mention like growing up and stuff, but like the western front of the British and like the Revolutionary War and like the British coming in on the western front, equipping the Indians to come and attack like Boonsboro. That was the place.

And then you have, Lexington was named Lexington because they got a false story out of Lexington, Massachusetts, that there was a great victory for the Americans. They actually got meed by the British. Yeah. But they were like, we're gonna name Lexington, Kentucky, where we're at after Lexington, Massachusetts out of this great victory.

And it's that's not what actually happened. I think like 300 Americans got killed or something. To 20 British. But yeah, it's just wild hearing about diving into like our local story. We were just passing around a YouTube video. I found, gosh, Cassius Clay, who was. One of the first anti-slavery people in Kentucky and would just duel anyone who disagreed with them.

And they said he was the, like most accomplished [00:13:00] dualist in North America. And he would give undefeated, he'd give a speeches, he'd be like, anyone has a problem? What? I said it plus God. He's we could settle it right now. Yeah. Here was the full story of that I loved cuz he was like if you have the Bible Yeah.

If you have problems with or if you believe in the bible, Here's my argument against slavery. For that. So he from God, literally from, or Yeah, from God. So he put the Bible down. If you believe in the laws of man, laws of man, here's the Constitution. And if for some reason you don't believe in either one of those, he pulled out his two dueling pistols and set 'em down right in front of everybody and said, we can settle it.

And then someone tried to, Assassinate him during the speech and shot him in the chest. It hit his Bowie knife, so he pulled out his Bo Bowie knife, stabbed the guy in the chest, cut off his nose, cut off his ear, gouged out an eye. The assassin's friends, they're all pro-slavery people, so they were, all there to see this anti-slavery guy get assassinated, threw him over a seven [00:14:00] foot high stonewall to get him away.

The guy lived and then sued Cassius Clay for mayhem, and he said I shot him in the chest, but once he stabbed me in the chest, we were even, and everything after that was Mahe. The only Cassius Clay I know is the one that. Became Muhammad Ali, right? He was Caius Marcellus Clay. Who that was? So this is who he was named after he, Muhammad Ali was a direct descendant of the slaves of Cassius Clay and Cassius Clay Mar Marcells Clay's dad was like one of the biggest slave owners in America.

And when his dad died and gave him all of his property, he freed all the slaves and gave him some money and land and stuff. He died like 1900 I think, and at 92 years old. Yeah, at 92. And Muhammad Ali's dad, it's a great story. Muhammad Ali's dad when he died was just like, had his son a couple years later.

He was like, oh, I'm gonna name him after this original guy. And he was like a founding person of the.[00:15:00] The Revolutionary War. He was gonna be Abraham Lincoln's vice president, but he was a little bit too wild cuz he was just killing all these people. I'll just send you the video guys. Tell story about Van.

Yeah. So he, once Abraham Lincoln was elected, this guy was a little bit too crazy to be well rough around the edges as a politician in official politics. So they seem to be the ambassador to Russia. So when the war broke out they sent Cassius Clay to be the ambassador to Russia. Yeah. Don't you need somebody that can be a little bit tolerant and be an ambassador?

I think he's one of the, I wait till you hear this story. I think he's one of those guys that fit, fit in very well with the Russian culture, cuz they're, you wouldn't wanna send this guy to France, but like Russia. Yeah. So he. Convinced Russia to threaten France in Britain with when the war broke out Russia told France, in Britain, if you guys recognize the Confederacy at all, Russia will go to war with you.

And they're like, that is really what, [00:16:00] because Britain and France had interest in the. Plantation economy. So they had an interest in having the Confederacy win. They didn't want the north and their industrialism to, take hold cuz there were such good trading partners coming outta the south.

So you could imagine what would've happened if the Confederacy had. Britain or France military support, it would've been a totally different war. Yeah. And it's because of one dude, one rough and tumble dude. Yeah. The winter Russian said, Hey Russians, if you tell them, if they so much as recognize the Confederacy, it's war.

And the Russia was like, okay, you got it. Cash, don't do us. So he I think before that or after that, he made a newspaper in Lexington called the True American. The True American. Yeah. And it was a anti-slavery newspaper and he was just getting threats left and right. So he covered the front of it with an iron sheet and then he made like a death tunnel inside.

So when he opened the door, it's just like a three foot wide hallway lined with iron sheets with a cannon one way, one way out with a cannon, one [00:17:00] way in a no way out. Yeah. With that through, with a cannon at the end of the hallway. And they burned it down. He got tuberculosis and they burned it down and then he recovered.

But he had a mansion, I think it was called White Hall. White Hall. I think that was the Clay Family estate, not just his clay Family estate. Yeah. But I dunno if I never heard of this guy. That's what we said. Dan sent it. We were like, how is this not a Tarantino movie? I was like, Forcing everyone to watch it.

I'm like, this guy's life story is so amazing. But he got old and got dementia and he took the cannon and put it at the top of his stairs in his mansion and he would like Scarface. Yeah. And his Scarface. And he would've run-ins with the sheriff over various things. And he was, in his. Eighties. I think some people broke in when he was like 87.

Yeah. Yeah. Two dudes. Two dudes. And he killed one of 'em with a knife he killed. He shot one of 'em and kill. He killed both of them. Kill the other one with his boaty knife. Yeah. He killed both of them. He's an 80 some year old man. Just what are you doing? Breaking into Cassius Marcells Clay's house.

Yeah. But. Apparently the sheriff came once and he shot the cannon at him, and the sheriff goes, I'm [00:18:00] never going back there unless you give me I'll have to send support of the local militia. Yeah, if anyone's looking for the video, the guy who made it is called the Fat Electrician. I don't know why he's doing documentaries, but the Fat Electrician, Caius Clay.

It's like a 15 minute summary of this guy's life. It is so amazing. But it's one of those things where that was akin to a Kamala Harris now, like that level of politicking not that long ago, is a sort of guy that carries two guns on him at all times. Times, will fight any man to the death that disagrees with him, killed multiple people.

He went to the, he was in the Mexican American war, right? Yeah. Mexican American war. And they said his brigade was captured pretty immediately and so there were prisoners of war. And two of his men escaped and they were going to kill the people that were still in the prisoner war camp. And he just volunteered himself and his other officer was like, Hey, we were in charge.

Just kill us. [00:19:00] Don't kill any of the other people. And then apparently they were so impressed that they just let everyone live and then they came back as like a war hero. It was an amazing Wow. So not too different than old Daniel Boone. When he got captured by the Shawnee with all his dudes. And he said the same thing to the chief.

He said, let me run through the gauntlet. He successfully did, and then Blackfish was so impressed he ended up like adopting him, adopt this. Yep. Okay. So that's how we, this brings a question to me. You know how guys like with story, with stories like that, And even Simon Kenton is largely unknown, right.

For his impact. Never heard his name before. You said the said that Daniel Boone looks like a sissy compared to the dudes in the frontiers. Yeah. So how does Daniel Boone get so much fame and notoriety because these other guys. Yeah, but do you have a better publicist or what's the deal here?

Yeah. I think part of it better documentation is if you, this guy started very wealthy, Cassius Clay, and I think when you start from a position of [00:20:00] wealth, And even today you're like, you just dismiss everything else. I think Trump saw that with he and, started out with what a million dollar loan and, built this huge empire.

And I know personally, if I started out with a million dollars in my life, I would, I. Have blown it all by. Oh yeah. I'd be, A lot of people look a aire. Yeah. A thousand. Yeah. A lot of people look at people that start out with money, I think, and are just like, oh, they had an advantage from the beginning.

And Daniel Boone, if I'm not mistaken, Did not, I think, no, we did not. Alexander Hamilton and some of these other people. Yeah. I think if you start from a position of poverty and then make something of yourself, it's more impressive than Simon Kittens the same way though. Yeah. But so the thing about most of these frontiersmen that, like I've learned from just like diving in and learning more about 'em is like they saw the West as like their chance to strike it rich.

Out of poverty. So like they're on the fringes of society in the colonies. And we're like, man, this is my chance, this is my opportunity. And that's what everybody talked about, was unique about [00:21:00] America, was like, It literally anybody could pack up, go west, stake your claim, little hatchet improvement and like now you are a wealthy dude, you just gotta happen to survive.

Go put your K on some trees. And that's stake your hawk improvement. Tomahawk, I call him Hatchet. Yeah. And he, he just, he had thousands and thousands of acres that because he was illiterate, he ended up losing it all in the end. Yeah. People stole it from him and, Yeah, got it. Settled outta court and things like that.

Kenton County, Kentucky is named after Simon Kenton, but his name's just lost. Yeah. Nobody ever made the Walt Disney Simon Kenton show. Yeah. I wonder if part of it is he went by a fake name for a while. Simon Butler and yeah. Simon Butler. Cuz he, Thought he accidentally killed someone.

That whole, the twist of that story is crazy. Gosh. But Daniel Boone, like I, is he famous because he he got in with the establishment, like in his career a little bit more. He like, he probably did, OBO was the first and like most prominent fort. Yeah. Boom. [00:22:00] Boom was operating, came in through Virginia.

And he was backed by the politicians to lead that expansion into Kentucky because he had to, he wasn't given an option. Yeah. He like had done some other expeditions. Yeah. Over to Kentucky. Got robbed of all the like hides and pelts and everything that he had. Went back to Virginia to the investor and was like, sorry, I was gone for two years and came back with nothing.

I'll repay you somehow. And the judge was like, we've got a job. I got a job for you. So he had all of the establishment behind him? Yeah. Documenting them, pushing his story too. And how many settlers Probably that came over through the Cumberland Gap with them, documented in their memoirs. Daniel Boone taking 'em in, but.

Simon Kenton was the guy that, he welcomed people here. He hunted for 'em. He gave 'em advice. He supported them. Yeah. He gave them land. Yeah. To settle. He escorted them in and then gave them land. He was like the guy on [00:23:00] call. He was death on call. Yeah. For the first settlers in this area. Oh, you think you got Indian trouble?

I'm on my way. Yes. Yeah. Way we go runs a hundred miles your direction. Oh, can you believe that? Like I, the shape that these dudes had to be in? Oh, they, I can't even imagine everybody back then. The Indians, the settlers, like all these dudes. And then you had the stories of some of the women in the, in that time period as well.

They were beasts. Like I it's pretty impressive time period of just like the fortitude you had to have to. To make it in that era. Like we've we've come a long way from, have we? Have we really? Those women were harder than I am. Absolutely. Almost any man I know. Yeah. Yeah. Daniel Boone's favorite daughter, Jemima.

The whole family leaves Boonsboro while Daniel Boone's gone, and she's I'm gonna stay back and wait for my dad. I know he's still alive. And she was the first one to welcome back to Boonsboro, right before he got kicked out and all that. Like just, [00:24:00] I don't know, like it's hard to imagine our era hanging out back then.

Like I don't see how we would survive. We'd be in Pittsburgh or something like that. Yeah. Detroit chilling. Yeah. Chilled in the city selling newspapers on the street corner. So that's the kind of stuff, we just took that we did when we do this historical hunting stuff. Yeah. He didn't pack any food with you because you had to, you either had to catch or.

Kill what you, that's cool. You'd take some, you'd take some dry jerky and some beans and stuff like that, but everything, it had to be, we'd have gear inspections. Of course you could take your, if you were on medication or something, we weren't that much of a deal. No, you don't get your heart medication.

There was no penicillin in 18th century. No first aid kits. Yeah. On day two, we lost Dave. We all knew it was gonna happen. He just wanted to recover something about insulin. Yeah.

But yeah, that, it was cool. We had a lot of fun doing it and it did make you realize [00:25:00] how soft we have it, yeah. And we didn't even get to experience it. There was a night I about burned myself up. My shelter caught on fire. And if I hadn't had a one of my car dogs with me, I would've been woken up by this flaming shelter, but it, the dog got up. It was so cold that I had the dog under the blankets with me. And I was sound asleep. The dog starts wrestling around. And I look up and the shelter's smoking and starting to catch fire and stuff. So I jump outta the shelter and I start throwing snow on the shelter and get the fire out.

But if that dog hadn't, I don't know what would've happened. I'm sure I could have woke up, but Yeah. Yeah. You're trying Would've been worse for sure. This is a good dream. I'm real warm that, yeah, that dog. Those dogs though, they knew. It's Hey, it's pretty nice underneath this blanket. And it was nice for you to have that dog under the blanket.

Yeah, for sure. Did the frontiersmen run around with dogs at all? Was there any hounds? Yeah. What's the stories with that? [00:26:00] David Wright is a historical artist from down in western Tennessee. He has a lot of documentation of dogs on the frontier. Yeah. And He also includes those in a lot of his paintings.

Yep. And I've talked to David at length, why he does that. And he goes, man, they're all over, they're all over the historical documents. They're different than the hounds that we have now because they were more, definitely more utilitarian and a deal where they knew their job and. The frontiersmen depended on them to do their job.

So you might have a dog with you that could catch bear. They might track wounded deer. They might detect when there's danger around in the form of shawnees. So all of those types of things. It was a much broader scope and utilitarian use of the dogs than what we do now. And it was mostly hound dogs.

A lot of a lot of the early hounds were not really developed to where they are today. The plot came over in 17. The [00:27:00] 1750s were when the first plots got here, and they were big in Appalachia. Johannes plot settled the range up there, close to plot balsam in that area, in North Carolina and stuff.

But they were just a mixture, they were just gamey dogs that, that most dogs on the frontier, the plots. The plot family guarded this family name of dogs very closely, and they bred true to it for the most part. I think there was probably, regardless of what all the hardliners say, I'm sure that there was a plot or two that, that got tangled up with the neighbors collie, surely.

And So I'm not I don't have any documentation for that, but the dogs were more of Aker dog style. George Washington had hounds though, the running walkers. And I remember thinking, speaking of Frontier people, Lewis and Clark, they had a new Finland that I think Oh, really? Made it all the way to the west and back.

Yeah. No way. I [00:28:00] would've thought that dog would be eaten the first week like a white one. I don't know if it was white or black. It might have been black. Yeah. But huge. Nasa, I get that dog's name. Yeah. Yeah. I'm surprised they didn't eat it when they were in naloxone, I'm sure that, I'm sure there were multiple discussions, man.

Multiple heated, like we were all hungry, and then there was like 150 pound dog, just like chilling. I think about that when I look att I'm like, man, look at him. If I skinned him he'd look just like a little squirrel on the spit. On the spit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta think about stuff like that.

You never know what, when the zombie apocalypse is gonna happen, you're gonna have to eat your dog. You gotta evaluate him. Yeah. I read a book once it was called whole podcast down the tube yeah. No, that's great. It was called One Second After, and it was like e m P. I think, I don't know if it was a solar emmp or whatever, but there's this e emmp and the book is like a family in North Carolina outside of Asheville [00:29:00] that goes a year without electricity and rallying the community with no electricity or whatever.

And the guy lets the dog star for. Quite a bit until he kills the dog and the family eats the dog. And he's I wish I did it when the dog had some meat on his bones. And I always, it always it always stuck with me. I'm like, was this guy from the What's, where was he at? He was in I'm trying to think of the, Town outside of Asheville.

He's a professor. The author is a professor at the small college outside of Asheville in between Boone and Asheville. But is a fictional story. It's a fictional story. Okay. Yeah. Fictional story. Yeah. But it, one of the plot points was Dbo Silva. No, I want to say it was either we talked about this book or I have just read a review about it.

Look it up. It's a very good book. And he had a series and there was like one year after. And. So I think a third book. But anyways, I always think about that plot point. If I knew my dog was gonna starve at some point, I might as well get a good meal out of the dog instead of let the dog starve and then put the dog out, turn it into jerky while [00:30:00] it's, so that's one of those things that's always been like, oh, I'm ne ferric, that little piece of knowledge away.

But then you take out the dog and you're. Like three days later, like power comes back on and you're like, ah, oh my God. Ah, shoot. Like the mist that I'm gonna miss him. Yeah. Yeah. Mildred totally could have made it a few more days. The thing about the dogs were more valuable probably to Lewis and Clark alive than they would've been to eat 'em.

They, he. You didn't just keep dogs around because you wanted a dog around. The dog had to have a function. So Yeah, that's, I'm sure it helped in some ways. Like my hounds if I was in a survival situation, they would help me survive. They're more valuable to me alive than they ever would be.

It'd have to be dire straits. It's eh, you wonder what some of those Indian tribes, out west that were the first to maybe their first experience with White people and these people come up with this huge bear of a dog. Literally. Probably thought it was like a bear. Yeah.

Would've you wrangled? Yeah. Z wild. Exactly. But yeah, and for them, like the, that [00:31:00] time period game was so much more plentiful, like it sounds like that they just had much more opportunities to. Take, bear and deer and whatever else. Turkeys like Simon kitten shooting turkeys on the wing all the time running around.

Yeah. With a flint lock. With a flint lock. It's man, those suckers must have been everywhere, getting out west. Have you guys ever been to friendship? To the National Mu Loading Rifle Association? No. Friendship, Indiana. No. Spring shoots coming up in June. Dude, we should do that cuz Gobler Knob Long Rifle.

You ever seen that in Go Wild? Yeah. Uhhuh. He was just here, Rick. Yeah, he's all into that stuff and I think he said he goes to that one. And then I met somebody in Pennsylvania when we were at the Great American Outdoor Show. That was one of him and his dad were one of the first and only. Barrel makers made some for like last of the Mahicans was it John Getz Patriot?

So Rick did the same thing. He said, what was his name? And I was like, man, I can't, I talked to thousands of people at the Great American Outdoor Show. I couldn't remember, but he said he goes to that one in friendship. So it might be, it might have been, [00:32:00] it might have been John Getz. He's missing a leg. I don't know if that helps you, but I'm pretty sure that's John.

Great guy. Like super nice guy. So right here in Kentucky, if you go south, Towards Bowling Green. And then you go to a little town called Woodbury. There's a guy that lives there. What in the world? You're all right. Don't worry about it. There's a guy that lives there that's His name is Herschel House.

Okay. And he was featured in the Foxfire books on, he's like the father, the granddaddy of modern Flint LO rifle building. Okay. He's eight Herschel's, 83 years old now, but he's. Just an artisan. And then his brother John is the one that was the firearms quartermaster and firearms instructor for the movie.

The Patriot? Yeah. Okay. Stuff like that. There. There you go. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So you've been to this before the It's five miles from my house. Oh, man. Yeah. We should go to that. Yeah. Come Ono. It's only an hour and a half away. Yep. June. What? I'll have to look at it up the dates. Yeah. We'll look, trip a trip June, but if it's not that week, you can day [00:33:00] trip it.

And we can run over there. And an hour and a half. Yep. Dude, that Kentucky's full of these great artists. The, and then they've also got another organization called the cont, or the Contemporary Long Rifle Association, cle Uhhuh. And their show is in Louisville here, and it's in, it'll probably be in October, but you've never seen beautiful pieces of work.

That are functional. Yeah. That you can actually take out and hunt. Dude, I want one hanging on my wall more than almost anything You need to hunt. Yeah. If I got a million dollars tomorrow, the first thing I bought would be like a period piece like Kentucky Long rifle. Like that would, we got to hold, I got to hold the first one I've ever held before.

And like when you see him in pictures. You. They don't look balanced. They look like they'd be, like, the barrel would just be like pulling you to the ground. You pick that thing up and it is just steady and nice yep. Have you been to the Frazier Arms Museum downtown? I. No. So it's pretty cool.

It is. The the [00:34:00] Brown family, who's the big bourbon family, the guy was a huge gun collector and he has the largest collection of guns and armaments outside of the London Armory. What's really that? Yeah, huge. And I haven't been to it recently. Cultures changed a little bit. They might have taken some of the permanent display pieces out of the public view, but I would go there and they would have every sort of darringer, dueling pistols.

I remember they had George Washington, one of his long guns, one of Teddy Roosevelt's and they have all of these specialty exhibits. I went once when they had a touring like Samurai Weaponry exhibit. That's cool. It's a museum of arms and weaponry and they have all sorts of knives. They, it's really weird cause they have these dioramas of, like displays with like little mannequins and they'll be like, oh, here's like the inside of a ship.

Getting struck with a cannon ball and everyone's freeze framed with like splinters in their face and blood [00:35:00] like this. This is a kind of graphic museum. I've seen that, but it's a really cool if you're just looking for something to do when you're in Louisville, the Frazier Arms Museum down on Main Street, Frazier Arms Museum one will make a note of it.

Yeah. Do they have Cassius Marcel's Clay's Bowie knife or his dueling pistols or. I don't know if they do. They did have someone. Do you think he wore those in a cross draw or he, they had to be, they had a be cross draw. He was a pretty cool guy. Most of the cool guys did like cross drop. Who was the sheriff that killed Jesse James.

Oh, Jesse James was killed by the Ford Brothers. Bob Ford. Oh, maybe he wasn't a sheriff. Someone else, they have a, I remember they had a western sheriff and I know the name. I just can't place it. They had his badge and gun and stuff. White herb. No, it wasn't wide orb. That'd be big time. They have really cool and like I said, the guy, the, he's, the wealthiest family in Louisville.

He, his personal collection's really huge. It's just what do they [00:36:00] put out on display for the public country? Have you ever changed, seen the museum at Cody, Wyoming? No. The Buffalo Bill. Buffalo Bill Museum. Yep. No. Unbelievable. You're gonna get me on that era now I'm going through all these guys. Yeah.

It was a different time. My dad's side of the family was from the west. I've got a picture of my great-grandfather with Part of Buffalo chips. Is he Buffalo chips or buffalo bones standing there North. His, I'll show you. He said it was buffalo chips. Because we were talking about like you would go pick up not a gun.

Yeah. Bitch fork not a gun. Yeah. Cause I think you could burn 'em. Burn firewood. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly, that's how he would make his money is he just go around these fields and. Get 'em for free and then sell 'em. A hundred percent margin baby. Yeah. All organic poop salesman in your history and future money.

Doesn't that make sense though? I think this was the most, and let's put a little disclaimer on here. I bet 80% of the stuff we just [00:37:00] said on this podcast was factually wrong. Oh yeah. I'm gonna get ripped up whenever we shoot, but we're in the ballpark. We're in the ballpark. I will say this is probably the most educational, historically educational podcast, podcasts we've ever done.

Hang out with Chris. Chris draws it out. It's all historical fiction. Yeah. It's all That's our disclaimer to the truth. Yeah. Somebody said that the frontiersman was not historically accurate. But the first line in the preface of the book is, this is, what does it say? He said, this is 100% intended to be fact researched from firsthand accounts, journals, and logs from this book is not fiction.

It's historical fact. Yes. And it's backed up by documentation. And all this stuff cites the universities that he worked with. Professors. It's the way he. Wrote it where it's almost conversational. That is the difference in, yeah. Me and Chris talking about that is Man it's entertaining.

It's not dry at all. It's like very narrative driven. So like I could see how somebody would be like, how did he know it was a foggy morning when, or she, he turned her [00:38:00] head away. Okay, he took some liberties there. But you wouldn't read it if it was just like, yeah. And then on this day this happened.

Yeah. And that is the fact. And then I can't on figure day why no one has ever made a movie. Out of it. Yeah. You could make one heck of a docu-series. Yeah. Drama docu-series type movie outta this thing. I watched one that's a really famous one about like Boone and Lewis and Clark and Tecumseh, some of the others.

And I was sitting there on the edge of my seat and li listening for Kenton or listening for Butler. Nothing. He saved Daniel Boone's life like three times. I know. No, nothing. Nothing. Not in any of the battles. Nothing. Nope. It's like he's been scrubbed and he didn't run away either. He didn't, he you'll, I'm not gonna run the book for you.

You'll figure it out. Can you do spoiler alerts on Histo history? I'm not going, if it's already happened. Is it still considered? Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. America wins a Revolutionary War and here we are [00:39:00] today. You know what's interesting about it? Is, I'm listening to the book at one and a half speed, and at the same time I'm thinking I've gotta buy this thing so that I can thumb back through.

Because there's parts I know I've missed or I like partially remember what they said and I was telling Derek about this cuz he's getting ready to read it too. It is like there's so much in there in this book. This, yeah. Yeah. I got it. I think I'm gonna have to buy it or check. Check it out. I've got the print, I've read the print at least.

At least three times. Geez. And I've listened to the book, which is 30 hours long. 30, yeah. And I can't listen to it at one and a half speed cuz I, I'm not that quick. I kind ignore, follow down to half Jacob's got a heck of a processor up there. Yeah. Yeah. I go to half speed. He got Simon, Ken took him four years to finish it.

Yeah. All right. Man, you're the hound guy. Any any hound information you can give us or throw out there? We've talked a lot about [00:40:00] history. I feel like we'd be remiss if you didn't, if you didn't impart some wisdom on us for the Hounds men that might be listening. Wow. And we'll wrap it up after that.

It's a long one. Yeah. Any like legislation going on? Any, there's all kinds facts. We just dropped a podcast this past week with Brian Lynn and I don't know when this will air, but it was May 8th. We just did a spring ramp up on, on all the happenings around the country with Sportsman's Alliance and Brian Lynn there.

Good. The big thing is, the. With your audience is this right here? Man, this is one of our campaigns we're running. This is fair chase. Yep. And if you've never been hound hunting, if you've never hunted with hounds, don't pass judgment on it. It's the oldest form of hunting.

There is documented form of hunting and it's one that's often misunderstood. We'd love to have more people come over and listen to our podcast. Yep. And get the real scoop on it. Listen to what Brad and Derek Yeah. Ask them if they thought it was easy. That's a common misnomer among Yep.

People that have never done it. They[00:41:00] and my question is this and I always challenge. My audience and people that listen, if you don't have factual information to back up your opinion, what really separates us from the anti hunters that make their decisions based on emotion.

Yeah. Yeah. And so be objective about things. We've gotta find place ways to bridge these gaps rather than building walls in our community. Yep. Go Wild's been awesome about that for us. At not only Houseman xp, but also our Hound hunting community. And I'm telling you guys were the first major brand, national brand that signed on with us.

Good man. As a, and now, we're. OnX and we're having conversation. We're we just signed with OnX and we've having another conversations as well. Good. With other major brands and I think that's what it's gonna take. Yeah. That's important. Get buy-in from the brands and everybody knows.

Absolutely. I've heard you say it before We're all hunters. Yep. And just [00:42:00] because the Hounds men are like, probably say at the fringe of hunting, right? Like they're the ones that are always getting targeted by legislation and everything like that. But we all know how this stuff works, man.

It starts with, it's hunting, right? And it comes, right now we're the favorite target in the hunting space is the homan. It's an easy mark. It's high profile. It's hard to Narrate your way through that conversation if you haven't practiced it. And I think that what we're making people realize in the hunting community, in that hunting space is since we are the favorite target, people are smart enough to know that if we just sit back and let hounds.

Be the favorite target of the anti-hunting community. They're not stopping there. No. We're a good, we're a good frontline for the rest of the hunting community, and so all we're asking is help us, let's get together and help each other here. Yeah. Because we're all on it for the same thing.

Because the argument with the [00:43:00] homan hounds man the people challenging hound hunting, it isn't, the argument isn't saying that we're. That we're concerned about the hounds as they're concerned about the bears or the mountain lines or whatever, so it's not necessarily that they don't like the fact that you're using hounds because of the hound safety they're concerned about.

They think it's an unfair advantage for the bear. So that's what this is fair chase is about, because there isn't any other form of hunting where the animal being pursued is fully aware from the very beginning. I don't care if it's a bear, if it's a coon, it's a mountain lion.

As soon as those hounds are loose, then that animal is very aware that you're in pursuit. Yeah. And they've got all the tools at their disposal to try to, and they're often more successful Yeah. Than your hounds are. Yeah. Cool, man. I appreciate your message on that, and it's been awesome, like getting to work with you guys, getting to know y'all, and now having you on our show.

And it's been great to see you go wild, embrace you guys and we want to continue to see that happen and need to get some more of our guys. Some experience out there with y'all too. [00:44:00] That's, yeah, you go, I know you've been that's that bear hunt. Sounds fun. I know he's been trying to get me to come out there and it seems like we just can't make it work.

He's trying to get me to come stab some hogs the other day and I was like, man, I tried to get at the office, man. I know. And I was at home. But yeah. But yeah, so appreciate you guys listening. Appreciate you coming down, being on the show. Thanks for having me. If you guys could leave us a five star review, we really appreciate that.

If you got this far and you don't like it, I don't know what you're doing. Do something else. Log the show and go wild and tag us all. We got Dan Hood, Jacob Knight, Chris Powell, and Braden Ware, and we'll see you guys next week. Thanks. See,