Weather, Deer Behavior, and Hunting Strategy

In this episode of the How to Hunt Deer Podcast, hosts Dan Johnson and Jason Thibodeau discuss their recent weekend activities, including coaching youth sports and the challenges that come with it. They delve into the insights gained from trail cameras regarding deer movement and behavior, emphasizing the impact of weather patterns on hunting strategies. The conversation shifts to the concept of core areas for deer and how these areas change throughout the season. They also explore early season hunting tactics, the importance of patience, and the significance of weather in late-season hunting. The episode wraps up with practical advice for hunters as they prepare for the upcoming season.

Takeaways:

• Coaching youth sports can be challenging yet rewarding.
• Trail cameras provide valuable insights into deer movement.
• Weather significantly impacts deer behavior and hunting success.
• Deer have different core areas for breeding and non-breeding seasons.
• Early season hunting requires patience and strategic planning.
• Food sources are crucial in determining deer bedding areas.
• Late season hunting can be highly effective after major weather events.
• Hunters should adapt their strategies based on weather patterns.
• It's important to prioritize safety while hunting.
• Enjoying the outdoors and observing wildlife is as important as hunting.

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Dan Johnson (00:01.886)
All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the How to Hunt Deer Podcast. I'm your co -host, Dan Johnson, and the other co -host here, Jason Thibodeau. Jason, how we doing, man?

Jason Thibodeau (00:13.717)
Good, Dan, how are you doing today? Good.

Dan Johnson (00:15.776)
doing good man. I have I had a full weekend and absolutely full weekend. Me and my family, we started off Friday night with like this thing where all the kids in all the football programs, they go to the high school and before the varsity game, they have like this little mini parade where the kids walk across the track and they get a wave at the crowd and say, hey, here's your future football players. And then we sat and we watched the football game.

Our team upset one of the best teams in the state, which was pretty cool to see. then Saturday we had baseball. Then Saturday after baseball, we went to the Iowa Hawkeye game. Yep. And then Sunday we played, my son played football. No joke. First play, I hand the, or I run a play. My son's the running back. He's one of the fastest on the team and he gets about a yard. Okay. Second play.

Jason Thibodeau (00:56.843)
Yep, I saw that.

Jason Thibodeau (01:13.631)
Mm

Dan Johnson (01:15.114)
I run him outside, he gets tackled out of bounds, injured out for the entire game, the rest of the game. And so I'm already down like four kids. And so now all it's an eight man league. So all eight kids had to play the entire rest of the, man, I felt sorry for him because it was a little warm. And then you get, you're asking all these kids to play full, a full game without any substitutions. man, it, it sucked for him.

Jason Thibodeau (01:20.315)
jeez.

Jason Thibodeau (01:24.651)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (01:41.075)
It's... It's pretty intense. don't remember being...

quite like that when I was my son play him. i tackle last last week. game, had four touchdowns runs, he just runs crazy weekend, they actually t he had, he caught it on took it off 50 yards and s the the course of back, you know, because t that are blocking in 15 yards away from the p

Dan Johnson (01:54.607)
wow.

Dan Johnson (02:10.699)
Hahaha!

Jason Thibodeau (02:15.087)
It's just crazy. The kids don't know who to hit, when to hit them, you know, but they're just shoving each other in the back. It's hilarious to watch because, I filmed it and it's just, it's nuts, but yeah, it was...

Dan Johnson (02:18.347)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (02:22.442)
Yeah, it's one of those things where, okay, you're starting when it comes to like football like this, you're starting from scratch with a bunch of kids who have never played. We have one kid on our team who's played tackle football before. And even last year, he's the only kid who played football last year. My son didn't even play football last year. And so now we have this team full of kids that you're trying to teach them how to be aggressive. But then afterwards, like,

then they're aggressive at the wrong times, like blocking in the back or blocking, I don't know, clipping or whatever the case is, just way away from the ball. Like actually, you don't need to be aggressive when you're 30 yards away on a guy and you smoke him. Like you can't do that, you can't hold, you can't push a guy to the ground, that kind of stuff. But I thought I could tackle him. Well, yes you can, but only when you're on defense, right? So we had some...

Jason Thibodeau (02:56.008)
Yup.

Jason Thibodeau (03:17.867)
Yeah, yep, right.

Dan Johnson (03:20.694)
We had some offensive linemen yesterday who were just straight up tackling the defender and they were getting penalties. I'm like, okay, you can't like we worked on this, but you can't do that. And they're like, I didn't know I couldn't do that. So yeah, it's a blank slate, but it's fun, man. I love dude. I love coaching.

Jason Thibodeau (03:24.488)
Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (03:29.962)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (03:36.671)
Yeah, I do too. Did you have to do the get certified coach and everything like that? Go through all the tests and everything? Yeah. Yeah. Nope.

Dan Johnson (03:43.296)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's crazy these days. You just can't be a coach anymore, which I guess I agree on. But in order for me to go to my daughter's wrestling tournament to get on the floor and be a coach in her corner, I had to go through a training portion of that that I'm not joking lasted days. It took me like an entire week to do this training course. Have to watch the videos. And the program is if you

Jason Thibodeau (04:06.049)
All right.

Jason Thibodeau (04:11.04)
Yep.

Dan Johnson (04:12.724)
If you hit the play button and go to try to do something else on your computer, it will pause the video. And so you have you literally have to sit and do the whole thing. So, yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (04:17.323)
Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (04:21.545)
Yep. Yep. Yeah. I thought it was crazy. My son wanted me to help coach and I'm not the head coach or anything, but he wanted me to help. You know, he's like, dad, you should do it this year. Cause let me last year I'd go watch all the practices and everything. I was always there. And I mean, it's a, it's a lot of time. I mean, they dedicate four to five days of practice a week, two hours, two and a half hours a night, you know, and then you have a game on the weekend, which are, don't know about you guys, but our games are anywhere from an hour to two hours away. If we're not playing at home.

Dan Johnson (04:48.769)
No, we don't have to do that. We're in a metro league. And so it's basically an entire. I don't know, like. I want to see there's like 12 towns that are combined into it. And so we play at one location all year round, but it's about even distance for everybody right in the smack dab of this of the city. yeah, yep, yep. All right. Dear talk now.

Jason Thibodeau (04:52.02)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (05:05.012)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (05:13.045)
Gotcha.

Dan Johnson (05:19.322)
what are your trail cameras telling you right now?

Jason Thibodeau (05:23.957)
Well, if I went off my trail cameras right now, I'd probably find a different place to hunt.

Dan Johnson (05:27.81)
Love it. Dude, same here, man. Same here. I can't. I don't I don't know, man. Like I'm starting to get frustrated here because it's it's almost like these trail cameras. I love them, but I kind of want to stop using them because throughout like from a and I'll never stop using them. I love trail cameras. Don't get me wrong. But this weekend I went out and I put up an additional

Jason Thibodeau (05:30.177)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (05:46.795)
Yep.

Dan Johnson (05:57.058)
I finally got to my main farm, the farm that I've been hunting for the last 17 years, and I finally got about, let's see, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12. I updated or.

Jason Thibodeau (05:59.594)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (06:24.322)
set out a total of 12 trail cameras over about 500 acres. And it's, it's so 12 cameras seems like a lot of trail cameras for, for 500 acres, but it's not just because it's a giant misshapen every which way type of property. so 12 cameras out and I haven't had anything of note notability, but they've only been out for like two, two and a half days now.

Jason Thibodeau (06:29.246)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (06:44.961)
Sure.

Dan Johnson (06:54.273)
Okay. My main farm, man, I got excited. I had two shooters show up over the course of like two days and then nothing again since the last time we've talked. And I'm I'm not sure if it's a crop thing. I'm not sure if it's an EHD thing. My mind now, of course, the way I think is worst case scenario. Like the worst case scenario is happening. I have no shooters. What am I going to do? I'm starting to get worried.

Like what's your mindset based off of your trail camera data?

Jason Thibodeau (07:25.311)
I'm kind of thinking the same thing. You know, I had a couple days where I had some really good movement. I had a bunch of does come in. I some younger bucks come in. I still have not had anything three and a half on up, which is kind of weird on.

four or five different properties that we've got. But I did see that there's a CWD meeting and I actually live in one of the CWD counties in Northern Illinois. There's, I don't know how many now, but.

three of the counties in which I hunt are CWD. So I'm kind of wondering if there's something with that. But also to me, it's it's weather. Earlier in the year, we talked about how wet it was here and I was mowing like crazy. I literally went to a screeching halt this week with the mowing and everything's dry and it's mid to upper 80s right now. So it's it's I think a lot of it has to do with weather, hopefully.

Dan Johnson (08:15.723)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Weather and past rain and things like that. And you're right. I mean, we all know weather impacts deer movement quite a bit, but I don't know, man. It's just like all the past years have now I've had some bad years in the past. I've had some good years in the past. I always in the, least in the last, since 2006, I've always kind of had a cup, you know, like

a couple good deer show up, right? And then I've been able to chase them and things like that. This year's just, don't know why it just seems different. Maybe it's cause I'm so busy. And when I do find the time to go check in on my deer, my cameras, I'm so busy with everything else. I'm not getting the results that I want. And I don't know. Maybe I have spoiled myself and I have set my expectations too high over the course of the years. And so I don't know, man. I just...

Jason Thibodeau (08:47.691)
Sure.

Dan Johnson (09:15.424)
It's gotta be the weather, it's gotta be the crops still being in. And as soon as all that stuff comes out, every year it gets better when we get closer to that mid October timeframe.

Jason Thibodeau (09:25.377)
I wouldn't be so worried because we have that shift, have the weather pattern changing, we have crops coming out, obviously deer are going through a bunch with losing velvet and starting to establish dominance and stuff. My biggest concern is all summer long I hadn't really seen anything that was normally what I would see.

Dan Johnson (09:36.659)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (09:44.064)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then again, these trail cameras only tell you a very, very small story of your property. You know, I don't have a cell cam in every intersection. I don't have a cell cam at every fence crossing or at every, every point where a finger comes out to a, you know, a field or things like that. So.

Jason Thibodeau (10:12.223)
Right.

Dan Johnson (10:12.512)
I just gotta keep telling myself, be patient and use your woodsmanship, right? And we talked a little bit about that woodsmanship last week. Now, I do want to talk a little bit about weather patterns this time of year, dryness, wetness, cold fronts, things like that, coming into this October timeframe. So we're sitting, when this launches, we're gonna be sitting a week out from October.

Jason Thibodeau (10:15.871)
Yep.

Dan Johnson (10:41.046)
And this episode's gonna launch the last week of September. And so what are you looking for from a forecast standpoint that's gonna get you into the woods in a tree stand or saddle or blind or whatever?

Jason Thibodeau (10:55.809)
I always used to hunt opening day. That was always a big thing. I used to go sleep overnight, get up early, hunt that morning. And I just did it just because you wait so long to actually do it. You might as well take advantage of it. anymore, I'll wait for that first weekend that I can hunt with my kids. You know, first opportunity I have with them. I'll do that now. Me personally, though, if I'm going to actually go in and hunt, it's got to be cooler. mean, I don't I don't enjoy sitting in 80 degree weathers and weather in a tree stand.

I'd rather be 60 -65 for a high for that day.

Dan Johnson (11:29.792)
Yeah, yeah, I'll agree, man. It's the I just won't hunt in hot weather early October anymore. I'm just not going to do it. If I'm going to go hunt, I'm going out of state. I'm going to go chase mule deer. I'm to go do something different. But here it's just one of those things like and I think a lot of here's something that I don't think people realize. Right. Everybody talks about hunting pressure, you know, like, my God, I got so many other people going and hunting this property. All the pressure.

Jason Thibodeau (11:54.645)
Hmm

Dan Johnson (11:59.618)
Well, you're also part of the pressure. If you go hunt, you are also part of the pressure. And so, I like, I just, there's so many other things to do in my life right now that I'm not going to go in and hunt in 80 degree weather, know, 75 degree weather, unless I have something on trail camera that is patterned or I go in, so it's like, okay, it's hot, so I'm not gonna hunt.

Jason Thibodeau (12:02.571)
Sure.

Okay.

Dan Johnson (12:27.948)
but I'm gonna go check a trail camera. I check a trail camera, he's on there, I have my stuff with me, I'm gonna go hunt. I'm not ruling anything out ever, but man, I'm not gonna hunt. The only time I'm hunting in hot temperatures is if it's smack dab in the middle of the rut, man.

Jason Thibodeau (12:45.375)
Yeah, a lot. mean, a lot of it, honestly, for me, just depends on my work schedule, but also depends on, I want to get the kids out while, while I can, before it gets too cold. You know, I I don't really enjoy taking them when they're freezing and we sit there for a half hour and then dad, I'm cold and it's time to go home. So I will take them the first couple of weekends and let them try to get a crack at something. But honestly, yeah, I'm in the same boat. I just don't enjoy sitting in that heat sweating. And I'm really, I don't like to have to wash my camp.

camouflage all the time. don't like to have to run the ozone things all the time. Not if I don't have to. Keep them in the totes if I can and keep them scent free and sweat free and dry.

Dan Johnson (13:18.837)
Mm -hmm.

Dan Johnson (13:25.878)
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, man. This whole like the early season back when I was single and back when I had zero kids, man, I'd hunt all the time. I just loved it. I had a lot of acreage back then where I could bounce around to different spots all the time. I could, you know, go scout field edges at night, see if, you know, I'd see a big deer pop out from the truck or, you know, from sitting on top of a corn crib or something like that. But outside of that.

Jason Thibodeau (13:36.96)
Yep.

Dan Johnson (13:54.634)
It's just it's not a priority anymore. I feel like I have I have my my plan and I'm just implementing my plan now every year. And that's pre -rut. I just try to find find the pre -rut. But kind of going back to to weather over the course of your life. Right. What what does wet conditions versus dry conditions in your opinion do?

as far as deer movement and deer behavior.

Jason Thibodeau (14:25.791)
As far as deer movement, think you can kind of narrow down where deer will go and where they'll be. mean, they require moisture just like, you know, we require a drink of water. I think when it's a wet year, they don't need to get up and move as far because there's more pockets of water ponds and streams and stuff have water in them versus like now I'm getting really dry where I'm at stuff starting to, you know, levels are coming down. There isn't those little pockets that there is.

Dan Johnson (14:45.579)
Mm

Jason Thibodeau (14:55.827)
During the growing season too plants hold moisture so they don't need as much moisture as they're eating either Now we're starting to see farmers take crops out So you're left with not much as far as that goes on a hot season With this dry weather I really feel like deer will hole up in those areas and that could be why I'm not seeing them is I don't have a lot of my trail cameras along creeks or over ponds No, there are some areas where I do have green food sources and I'm seeing more deer but where

I'm seeing less deer. It's the beans are turning brown. They're starting to come out and they're shifting into different areas of bedding. They're trying to stay cool during the day and moving at night.

Dan Johnson (15:36.14)
Right? Here's one thing my trail cameras have told me this week, and that is that they're on green food sources right now. Now, I say that because I on the farm that I'm getting this intel from does not have a lot of acorn trees, doesn't have a lot of oaks. There's some other mast that that's on the farm that these deer are eating. But for the most part, they're on green. OK, and it's close to a pond.

Jason Thibodeau (15:43.179)
Sure.

Jason Thibodeau (15:54.592)
Yep.

Dan Johnson (16:05.14)
So if you can find a clover patch, if you can find a grassy field, and to be honest with you, you can tell by just looking at the color of the grass. If the grass is lush and green, and maybe there's some clover that's lush and green or alfalfa, depending on what part of the country you're in, if you're on a creek bed or a river bank or something like that where those plants have moisture,

Jason Thibodeau (16:18.09)
Absolutely.

Dan Johnson (16:33.76)
I mean, that's where I would be focusing my attention right now, especially now that the crops are drying out and starting to come out.

Jason Thibodeau (16:37.408)
it.

Jason Thibodeau (16:40.989)
Well, and that's what I was going to say, too. You know, our fall plots that my brother put in, we turned everything over, we sprayed it and everything, put the fall plots in. They're starving for moisture. But yet if you go across the road, you know, literally a quarter mile, half mile, they got alfalfa fields, they got standing corn, you know, and those are things that we don't necessarily have that deer probably in right now. And that's why our cameras could be slow there too. So.

Dan Johnson (17:04.96)
Yeah. This time of year, your best guess, like where do you feel deer are bedding right now?

Jason Thibodeau (17:16.479)
Right now, I think in that cool north side of a hill, where they're not getting baked with the sun, probably if I had to guess, down towards the bottom, maybe halfway up, staying cool with a creek if they have a creek. You can always tell a difference with the temperature as soon as you get down into a bottom or as soon as you get down into a creek area, they just get a lot cooler.

Dan Johnson (17:30.688)
Mm

Dan Johnson (17:38.53)
Mm

Dan Johnson (17:41.888)
Yeah. And that's where I noticed the deer that I was bumping a couple of things. So. I have a bean field right now that is green. They must have either had to replant it or it just it's in the perfect spot with a great soil moisture. They are all it. Maybe it was they are planted later in the year. I don't know. But they're green now. They're just starting to fade off that green.

and that's where the deer are at. With that said, they're bedding really close to their food source right now. The benefit of this particular bean field is that there's also two ponds on each side of it. So I was jumping a lot of deer in this area because of food, green beans, water, and thick nasty cover. It's an old cattle pasture that throughout the course of the last 50 years,

has grown up in like Osage Orange and Black Locust and all this honeysuckle type things where there's low stem count to the ground, nasty in there, and that's where they're hanging out. That's where they're living right now, close to food. I say that, but I'm not seeing the bucks there. The does are definitely there. And I have to keep telling myself that that's okay, because with the does comes the bucks once they start getting fired up.

Jason Thibodeau (19:07.009)
Sure. Yep. And they're going to, it doesn't take just the rut. They're going to start making some more sign here. The closer we get to the middle of October, the end of October, you'll start seeing more and there'll be rubs, there'll be scrapes, there'll be bucks coming in and out. And I think, I don't know if we've ever talked about this, but there's like a three and a half years old.

that buck is the most curious I think where he will come onto this property but he'll leave and he might leave for a year but he's going to come back at four and a half you know so there is a shift not just in dominance or not just in food crops but also an age -class shift

Dan Johnson (19:34.838)
Mm

Dan Johnson (19:42.783)
Yeah. You mean as far as their behavior is concerned?

Jason Thibodeau (19:46.241)
Yeah, exactly. Whether or not their core area is this size versus that size, you know, you might not see it on your 50 acre parcel or your 500 acre parcel. But if you had a thousand or two thousand acres in that area, you might see that deer.

Dan Johnson (20:00.405)
Yeah, yeah, so a shifting of.

Dan Johnson (20:08.098)
I'm trying to think here how I wanna approach this next thing. Everybody talks about core area, okay? And so in the past, have printed out a map on a piece of paper, okay? On this map, I have put dots. And I've talked about this before where these dots, I've seen them here, put a dot. I found a shed here, put a dot. I have trail camera pictures of them here, here, and here. Put a dot.

Jason Thibodeau (20:13.14)
Right.

Dan Johnson (20:37.666)
And then so I take a marker and I make a, you know, I connect all the dots to each other. So it makes this really funky shape. And then in the past, especially as I think it was 2018, in 2018, I did that and it led me to finding a terrain feature within this shape that I set up on, a, on, you know, like a early pre -rut post.

Jason Thibodeau (20:46.166)
Right.

Dan Johnson (21:07.2)
weather pattern hunt, first time in, best time in, and killed to this day my biggest buck. so, core area, right? For me, I almost feel like deer have two core areas. One is a breeding season core area, and the other is the rest of their life. You the rest of the year core area. What do you see?

Jason Thibodeau (21:10.603)
Right. Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (21:32.713)
Yeah, so when I say core area, I pretty much mean birthplace.

I feel like the, mom, the doe, she does the best job that she can to keep her young by her for that first year for sure. And if not into that second year. And that's where I say that three and a half year old, I mean, it's just like humans. You, some are adventurous. Some are going to move to another state. Some are going to, you know, go off to college. Some are going to stay home and they're going to, they love this small town or they're going to move into a city. You know, everybody's got a different personality and it's the same just with the deer. And it's, kind of goes hand in hand with the attitude.

the temperament of the deer too. You know, there could be a young three and a half year old or a three and a half year old that's a bully buck, you know, and there could be a three and a half year old that's just comfortable where he's at and he might just be a homebody. So that's what I'm getting at when I say a core area. I don't mean a core area and necessarily narrowing it down by size, you know, saying, well, he only lives in this, you know, so many square a hundred acres, 200 acres, whatever. I cause I mean, deer obviously travel, especially if you give him a hot dough, he's going to go.

Dan Johnson (22:19.137)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (22:38.551)
far as the S2.

Dan Johnson (22:39.744)
Yeah, yeah, that's fact. All right, I wanna get back to weather here a second. All right, so we've already kind of agreed that we are not interested, like I'm not, doesn't sound like you are, in hunting warm weather, early season type of hunts, okay? What would get you in the woods, in the timber?

Jason Thibodeau (23:05.513)
Right now, what would probably do more than say a temperature drop would actually just be a rain front. I would be inclined if we were at mid 80s today and you said that it was going to rain overnight and maybe drop five degrees, tomorrow morning I'd probably be sitting in the stand.

Dan Johnson (23:22.754)
Yeah, yeah, dude. You're speaking my language now, man. Like anything before, I'll just say for all intensive purposes here, anything before October 15th, I just can't get too excited about it because I have seen extreme 20 degree temperature drops come through in October and do nothing for deer movement.

Jason Thibodeau (23:26.464)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (23:40.223)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (23:51.904)
Absolutely.

Dan Johnson (23:52.226)
nothing and now I say that with asterisks because I've also seen it do something sometimes but not the majority of the time it's still early season movement right it's not like a 20 degree temperature drop in October on October 15th or earlier is going to start this full -blown panic attack rut it's not going to happen and so I think

Jason Thibodeau (23:59.979)
Sure.

Dan Johnson (24:18.722)
A lot of people, a lot of the content even that comes out, they're like, get in the woods, early season on this cold front. And so I actually did some research on this a while back and I'm gonna butcher the numbers because I don't know, but I asked people how many people get excited for early season cold fronts. And it was like 100%, okay? Everybody gets excited for an early season cold front. But how many people actually hunt an early season cold front?

Jason Thibodeau (24:41.524)
sure.

Dan Johnson (24:49.025)
especially if it comes through on a weekday when you may be at work. Are you taking vacation time off of work to get into the woods? And it was like only 30%, okay? Now, of that 30%, how many people found success, found success in the woods because of the cold front, let's say, hitting a target deer or a deer in general? And it was, of that, was only another 20,

Jason Thibodeau (24:55.296)
Right.

Dan Johnson (25:19.922)
So you start to see like, yes, you can go out and hunt, but it's not like deer are just dropping like crazy because of this cold front that comes through mid -October. What you're seeing is social media and everybody's had success, but nobody's sharing their, I didn't have success type of moments there.

Jason Thibodeau (25:36.384)
You're right.

Jason Thibodeau (25:41.899)
What?

Well, and that's a whole nother thing too, because I mean, they could be having success in a state where they can bait. They could have food plots. They could be going onto a piece of, just say it's a public piece that nobody knows about. And one guy, he's scoped it out all summer long and he knows where that one deer is. And he goes in gets the first crack at it before anybody else. I guess my big thing would be all these early season hunts and stuff. I think I hear more people talk about how they won't hunt a morning

hunt until it gets good. What is good? What is the definition of good? Is good just the rut? And then are you missing out by not hunting those mornings? Say that cold front or that rain front comes through, you know, if you don't believe in the cold front, but maybe the rain comes in and you can hunt that morning. Are you missing out by not hunting that morning, say mid October?

Dan Johnson (26:15.275)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (26:35.603)
Yeah, Morning hunts, man. That's that's a lot of conversation, you know, early about early season. I am an opportunist. So let's say I do decide I want to go out and hunt a weekend. And let's say I'm going to leave. I'm going to leave my home, my home, and I'm going to go an hour south to my main farm. If I go there and afternoon hunt, I'm probably going to spend the night at my parents and then I'm going to.

hunt that next morning too. And so regardless of what type of movement I see, I'm gonna give, I'm gonna hunt the morning because I'm there. The only exception would be if I've identified deer movement, let's say in a staging area, and a bucks coming in and a staging area and this rain event or this something, I'm getting information saying I should be in the stand.

Jason Thibodeau (27:05.076)
Right. Right.

Dan Johnson (27:34.58)
Unless I have information that this deer is coming back in daylight, I'm probably not going to close to a bedding area. I might try to catch him in some access route, but I'm not not going to hunt mornings. I make that decision just like I make the decision of where I'm going to hunt in the evenings to what kind of information do I have? Is there sign? Am I getting trail camera pictures? Have I observed deer coming in and out of a specific location? And I

That's how I make my decisions to hunt for all of my hunts, not just afternoon hunts. I think morning hunts can definitely be, I mean, you're gonna have a better chance of hunting a morning hunt and killing a deer in the morning than not hunting in the morning and doing that too. So I don't know. think there's just a lot of stuff and content that comes out or that has been in the past that's overrated.

And this just becomes my opinion. If someone says you shouldn't hunt mornings, well, I can provide examples of why you should hunt. Or even the opposite. Let's say, hey, I have a cold front coming through. It's a Saturday night. Here's why you should hunt. Well, I have examples of why you shouldn't hunt these. Back and forth, they're there.

Jason Thibodeau (28:43.414)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (28:55.647)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (28:59.753)
I mean, I can give right now more examples on why I should be hunting mornings than why I should hunt in the afternoon. And I'll be honest, know, outside of hunting, maybe opening morning, I'm not going to hunt a lot of mornings unless it's the only opportunity that I have to take my kids. But outside of that for me,

Dan Johnson (29:04.395)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (29:19.187)
I should be hunting mornings. My trail cameras, that's the busiest they are right now. Does are walking by and I have them in good areas. You know, they're not necessarily bedding areas, but they're in a travel corridor leading to a bedding area that I think I could be missing out on just because I've heard this is the only way you're going to have successes if you do it like this.

Dan Johnson (29:39.615)
Yeah, so are those daylight pictures for the morning? Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (29:42.313)
Yes, yep, they are with the does and a lot of the does I mean, you know, they have a fawn with them or a couple fawns with them and sometimes I'm getting groups of five or six does walking that same trail and it's within a half hour window pretty much every day.

Dan Johnson (29:56.011)
Yeah. Yeah.

What would I do? I think if I was gonna go hunt a morning, I'd probably set up, unless I had information of a specific buck, right? So I gather all summer long, all September, even into October, I'm gathering data of what deer, what basket of deer. So I put a group of deer in a basket and I say, these are the ones that I wanna go after, these are the ones I wanna shoot. If I'm going after a doe, well man, you can do a thousand different things.

Jason Thibodeau (30:09.898)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (30:28.907)
Sure.

Dan Johnson (30:29.174)
to go shoot a doe. I mean, they're all over the place, right? And so, I don't know, man. It's early season that I would suggest if you wanna go shoot something, I would start off by going and shooting a doe. You could probably get away with sitting some field edge, some really easy to access stand location. Go fill your freezer and then get that shot under your belt where you feel confident and then go out and then try to go after a target buck or something like that.

Jason Thibodeau (30:58.781)
Okay, so one question I was just thinking of as you were talking about, you know, filling your freezer and harvesting a dough early season. Is there a pro and a con versus taking that dough early season versus late season? How does it affect your buck movement if you take her early season?

Dan Johnson (31:16.779)
Dude, that is why I have always like talked myself out. Like I have a doe, maybe she's even mature. Maybe you can tell like her coat is a little darker or it's different than the other ones. She's a bigger body doe. Man, I got her patterned. I don't want to kill her. I want to watch her and then I want to watch what's coming behind her. Right? I don't know, man.

Jason Thibodeau (31:38.858)
No.

Jason Thibodeau (31:44.383)
Right? But how does that so so you watch that dough, you let her continue to stay there and.

Say she brings a buck by during the rut, you shoot that buck. Now, are you going back late season to take that doe out or are you just letting those doe numbers stack up and you're not actually bringing the doe numbers down? Is there a benefit to the herd balance? And I asked that simply on how you would harvest those does. So if you pass this doe early season, do you need to harvest her late season?

Dan Johnson (32:12.672)
Mm

Dan Johnson (32:17.365)
Well, like that's like a deer management type of question, right? And so I don't, I personally don't do any type of quote unquote deer management. I don't have the ability to manage properties like some people do. I don't have the ability to go, okay, there's too many does here. I need to go in and because there's other hunters, there's shotgun hunters that have access to my farms, things like that. And so I just kind of look out for me.

Jason Thibodeau (32:20.265)
Right. Right.

Jason Thibodeau (32:27.188)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (32:45.962)
I go, but I will say this from a strategy standpoint, there's a lot of times where I tell myself, okay, tonight go out, shoot a doe, and let's go fill the freezer. But then something about the conditions make me say, dude, it's a buck night. feel, so then I'll just let every doe walk by me hoping that a buck's gonna pop out. They never do. And usually what happens is I get down out of the stand and I blow an entire field of deer out on my way back to my truck.

Jason Thibodeau (32:45.984)
Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (33:15.371)
Okay, so another question would be, guess, is if you're not gonna harvest the dough, do you actually, when you're in that stand for that first time this fall, do you stand up, do you sit when you shoot, and then do you try to draw on this dough? Use it as a...

Dan Johnson (33:31.814)
you mean just for just for practice?

Jason Thibodeau (33:32.947)
Just for practice purposes, do you try to size up the animal, range it, everything like that, situation if you're whether in a saddle or a tree stand, you know what creaks, what doesn't, so that way you know the moment the buck comes in you're ready, you're sized up.

Dan Johnson (33:45.195)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (33:48.746)
Yeah, I mean, that's the smart thing to do, right? I feel like you should do that, especially if you're a new hunter. Do I do it a lot now? Probably not. I'll just sit there and watch her. But when I was getting new into this, I would pull my bow up, draw back, anchor it on him and then come, you know, and then maybe maybe even I would shoot him and just be like, you know what? Got her, got her. And some of the coolest.

Jason Thibodeau (33:50.826)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (34:11.573)
Right. Yep. Yep.

Dan Johnson (34:16.885)
type of shots that I've ever had have come on does where, you know, I've smoked them and I've watched them hop hop die instantly. Or, you know, I've just watched what, what happens after you shoot a deer and then you can, you can watch it without being out of control, excited. Like don't, don't get me wrong. I still get excited when I shoot a doe, but it's not the hype that I have when I shoot a buck.

Jason Thibodeau (34:33.538)
sure.

Jason Thibodeau (34:37.237)
Mm -hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (34:41.014)
Sure.

Jason Thibodeau (34:45.238)
Right.

Dan Johnson (34:45.28)
And so I'm able to observe more what that deer is doing. So the deer runs off and it, you know, maybe it cuts back, maybe it goes to water, maybe whatever the case is, I follow the blood trail and I'm observing what this deer's doing as opposed to just trying to go pick up a set of antlers for the first time.

Jason Thibodeau (35:04.673)
Right, yeah. Now I was just curious when we get talking about that, you know, as far as harvesting a doe early season, if you have her pinned, you know, on, she comes through at 732 every morning. Is it worth harvesting that doe or do you leave her be until the rut? Because you know she's going to come by at 732.

Dan Johnson (35:24.214)
Yeah, I would, guess I would base that off of the number of dough groups. Right? So God, like I have a, I have a stand in mind right now and it's in the, an inside corner. It's a bean field. It comes up against a marsh deer travel through that. I have a trail camera right now over top of the scrape. I'm just waiting for, I've already had one medium sized buck non shooter walk by it.

yesterday and so today I'm in my head I'm thinking that's where I want to go sit to shoot my doe. Here's why. All these does are up but I know that as soon as those beans out they're putting cattle into that bean field and so that's then going to push the deer back into the timber and it's going to concentrate them more and so they have to use a different travel route. So

Jason Thibodeau (36:11.265)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (36:20.397)
I feel like that is a great place to try to shoot a doe right off the bat because once you do, like you can booger that up all you want, the cattle are going to booger it up even more once that's there. So knowing that is the reason I would go to that location.

Jason Thibodeau (36:30.475)
Yeah. Right. Yep. Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (36:39.04)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's kind of the same situation I've got in a couple of the stands. You know, I know there's certain crops that are to come out pretty soon. Matter of fact, right behind my house, five, six acres of Hannibal that I have. There's a doe, a fawn, and there's a little buck, you know, that come through. And I have yet to shoot a deer on my own property here just because I enjoy watching them. But with this doe and this fawn, they're a little bit different this year because I got beans basically surrounding the property. I put a couple of little food plots in on mine.

They're not real big. It's enough to hold a couple deer for a while. But I'm just curious if I would want to go down and shoot that doe and let that fawn come back in its place or let that doe go this year and keep reproducing and keep coming back. It was just something I thought about as far as like the early season since she's one of them I have patterned. I have another one patterned on another property too. But it was just something I was thinking about.

Dan Johnson (37:36.548)
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a good it's something that should be thought about I have a guy that I know he's a he's a slayer his name is Sam Kalora I don't not sure if you know him but the dude yeah the dude has like four 200 inch ears she's been on the cover of North American Whitetail he owns Miss Dopey he's one of the owners of Miss Dopey him and his wife the dude just knows a lot he's a deer breeder

Jason Thibodeau (37:48.351)
I've heard of them.

Jason Thibodeau (38:01.493)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (38:01.626)
And so he has a lot of knowledge about whitetails. And he says, if you want to shoot a doe, shoot a young doe. Don't shoot the, because they're the ones that are the most patternable. Those are the ones that are gonna be pulling the biggest, baddest buck into the area. And so he lets them go. He lets the old bucks go and they come back to the same place every year. They live in the same place.

Jason Thibodeau (38:05.601)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (38:22.814)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (38:31.179)
They're territorial just like bucks are to a certain extent. And he seems to think like in the past, I personally have just been shooting the first doe that kind of comes by. But I also really enjoy just watching deer be deer and just sitting in the tree stand and sipping my water or my coffee, whatever, and just chilling and watching deer too. It's like, I don't know.

Jason Thibodeau (38:33.313)
Sure. Sure.

Jason Thibodeau (38:47.625)
Yeah, right.

Jason Thibodeau (38:56.786)
Yeah, yeah.

Dan Johnson (38:59.178)
The older you get, it becomes less about killing and more about just being out there. And we talked about that.

Jason Thibodeau (39:04.531)
We did, I was going say we talked about that in the past. I think for me, that's what it's become too. Watching my kids, give them the experience, but then also when I go out there, all the different stuff that I see is pretty amazing and I don't have to walk home with a punch tag or, you know, it's just about the experience to me. I love being out in nature.

Dan Johnson (39:24.745)
Yep. All right. So weather again here. What time of year and what like like what type of weather and when that weather comes into play gets you excited to get out into the woods.

Jason Thibodeau (39:27.646)
Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (39:42.601)
Obviously if you have a major weather front in the peak of the rut in the pre rut time frame That's obviously when I'm gonna be hunting. I like hunting late season though, too Especially once you start to see what has been taken off the landscape as you know here the neighbor shot this one the neighbor shot that one if you have a Destination plot and you're able to watch deer day in and day out do deer things if you get a layer of snow And then you get that cold dry

where they can't get in, it's like icy layered up. Late season could be one of my favorite times to hunt.

Dan Johnson (40:18.613)
Yeah, I think for me, I don't get excited about that that mid October cold front anymore, right? Usually I am at a football game anyway, or with my kids coaching or doing something. I'm spending time with a family. If I get the opportunity to go out, I'll go out. But once you get past October 20th. And now.

I am a believer of cold fronts and weather patterns. Not just because of a temperature drop, because of precipitation. That is what I am looking for. There is something that I, so a while ago I went downstairs, I looked at all my mounts. Okay, I said okay. When did I shoot these? What was the weather? What was the weather or what did the weather do? My, most of my bucks, and I'm gonna say about 60 % of the bucks that I killed.

were shot on a day or within 24 to 48 hours of a major rain event. And when I say major, I mean a rain event that lasted 12 hours or longer. So maybe in overnight, it started at 6 p and it rained all night long till 6 a I'm in the woods. I'm in the woods once it stops raining. I don't care if it's noon, I don't care if it's like.

Jason Thibodeau (41:39.179)
Right. Yep.

Dan Johnson (41:46.367)
As soon as it's daylight hours, I'm in the woods and I've killed so many deer get up off their feet after such a long rain event.

Jason Thibodeau (41:54.689)
I was going to say, think even if you pay attention to it enough, you'll know that when that rain starts to come in, you know, it kind of just misty, drizzly, gets cloudy. Deer start to get on their feet before it too. And if you're in the right spot before and after, they're huge. I like like you're saying, I've seen it with snow as well too. I've gone from, you know, 55 degrees one day and we're going to get eight inches of snow.

Dan Johnson (42:06.391)
they do.

Jason Thibodeau (42:19.475)
And those deer are still coming out because they know that that temperature is dropping, the front's coming in and we're going to get the snow. I've seen some of my most most of the deer, you know, on those fronts. I think paying attention to that part of the front more than just the cold front itself is huge.

Dan Johnson (42:36.126)
I think it's when the what time of day the cold front comes through. Here's my here's my thoughts. My thoughts are if the if it comes through. Let's say in the morning. And it. If it comes through in the morning, if it's a hard rain, they're probably going to set out an evening feeding a big evening feed. They'll pass on it.

Jason Thibodeau (42:41.035)
Sure.

Dan Johnson (43:05.099)
But if it comes through before, let's say in the afternoon, it's gonna, they're always gonna feed before the front comes through. So if the front comes through, let's say, at eight in the morning, they're gonna be out major eating that night before, preparing for that. Like, I feel like I'm not a moon phase guy by chance. I don't check the barometric pressure, but these deer are in tune with the weather to know when they need to prepare.

Jason Thibodeau (43:13.088)
Mm -hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (43:20.459)
Sure. Yep.

Dan Johnson (43:33.825)
So the night before the event happens, even if it's like a couple hours, let's say it's gonna come through at eight at night, they're up on their feet, they're gonna feed heavy that night. And then for the next 24 hours, if it's a lot of rain or snow, I feel like they're gonna set, they're gonna skip some feeds and then they'll get up on their feet once the weather pattern has passed.

Jason Thibodeau (43:45.536)
Mm

Jason Thibodeau (43:56.863)
Yeah, I think so too. mean, I do pay attention to the pressure and I do pay attention to the moon phase and stuff. Some part of the moon phase that actually gets me is that's kind of intriguing. And I don't know if that part gets talked about as much as the

Rising in and the falling of the moon not necessarily the size of the moon That's what I've paid attention to do with that and if you can correlate that to some of these weather fronts You can end up with some pretty cool hunts the the rain if it rains all day long I'm on board with you. It just to me It depends on what time of day it stops or what time of day it starts and so if it rained all night long and it stopped at four o 'clock in the morning I would still think deer would

be on their feet after that. I don't know if they would sit that morning and not travel until that evening. I think it also depends the longevity of that rain. If it's a two -day rain, if it's a two -day rain, mean boom, they gotta eat.

Dan Johnson (44:49.119)
No, I f

Exactly.

They gotta eat sometime. They gotta eat. But if it's gonna be a short window, I don't think that they would skip a feeding like that scenario. I think they're just gonna browse lightly. And then that night though, I feel like it's on major. Like it's on major that night. Get in the stand.

Jason Thibodeau (45:17.183)
How much do you think with these fronts, know, deer kind of know when the weather's coming and everything. How much do you think that allows them to shift into a different bedding area versus like a primary core area?

Dan Johnson (45:29.57)
Yeah, that's a great question. I think a lot of it just depends on wind direction. I don't think, know, in the early, how do I put this? In the late season, let's just say it's January, season's over, it's the worst weather. There's still a standing cornfield and there's 12 inches of snow on the ground, right? Worst case scenario, concentrated food.

Jason Thibodeau (45:35.809)
Sure.

Jason Thibodeau (45:56.395)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (45:59.509)
concentrated deer, they're coming from wherever they need to come from to get to that corn. It also depends on, there's so many variables, but it also depends on what the bedding is like. If there's a nice south -facing slope next to this standing corn where that has some cedar thickets or it's CRP with warm season grasses or cold season grasses and some cedar trees that they can snuggle up next to and just get sunlight, they're gonna be extremely close.

Jason Thibodeau (46:04.127)
Right. Yeah, true.

Jason Thibodeau (46:27.317)
Great. Great.

Dan Johnson (46:29.109)
but I feel that they are going to travel and I've seen this on one of my farms that I used to have access to. It was thick, lots of pines, south facing slope, but it's a half mile, mile away from typically a standing cornfield that they don't get out until late November, even December some years. And they're traveling. I mean, I can follow the trail in the snow from this property across the road through another property into this cornfield.

Jason Thibodeau (46:48.843)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (46:59.147)
Mm -hmm.

Dan Johnson (46:59.325)
And so they're going, they're not gonna give up good betting, I don't think, to get closer to it. I think they still have to feel safe.

Jason Thibodeau (47:07.146)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (47:10.835)
Yeah, I think they have to feel safe. I also think it depends on if, especially if it's a buck, how worn down they are, how rundown they are, if they've got any injuries and stuff like that. But yeah, I think, I think to your point, I do think that they will travel for that food. We've, we've watched it in the past, you know, they will travel quite a ways. I do think it, if they know it's a long, you know, snowstorm or long rain event, I do feel like they will put themselves in a better position as far as closer to food. If it's a,

Dan Johnson (47:16.904)
yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (47:40.739)
a little longer event. Not that I...

Dan Johnson (47:42.335)
Yeah. I guess I've never really paid attention to that. I've never paid attention to, okay, storm, almost like they're staging themselves to be closer to food based off the weather.

Jason Thibodeau (47:49.12)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (47:56.65)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (48:00.553)
Well, and the reason I say that is when it's hot, they bed in a different area versus when it's cold. So to me, if it's dry, they're going to bed in a different area versus if it's going to be wet for two, three days.

Dan Johnson (48:15.115)
So what's the deciding factor then? Is it the food or is it the weather? My thing, I think it's food. I think food determines where they bed.

Jason Thibodeau (48:27.071)
I do too, think available food is gonna trump the weather.

Dan Johnson (48:29.6)
Yeah, yeah, same here, same here. they will, exactly. So they're gonna bed close to water because they need water. They're gonna bed close to food and then if they need food. But they're also, when they come back to bed, it's not like, it's two things, but they will travel to find good bedding. So I don't know.

Jason Thibodeau (48:33.333)
They gotta survive.

Jason Thibodeau (48:42.368)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (48:54.921)
right sure what's what's more important to them more of better betting or better food yeah yeah I mean they have to survive so they have to have cover and then they have to have food so if there's a if there's a happy ground there you go

Dan Johnson (49:03.113)
I think it's both.

Right?

Dan Johnson (49:14.143)
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, have we talked enough about deer and weather and behavior and things like that? Dude, I'm fired up now. I could keep talking for about another two hours.

Jason Thibodeau (49:20.001)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no I Dude I shot my bow before we got on today and I finally got it like Hitting baseballs at 60 and and I really like that, you know I want to get back a little bit further just cuz I like to shoot longer So I'm good closer if that makes sense

Dan Johnson (49:33.033)
Y 'all, buddy.

Dan Johnson (49:40.265)
Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (49:42.215)
But yeah, I'm super stoked. I got a couple more cameras sitting out on the table I picked up this morning and got to put new batteries in them and everything like that and wipe memory cards. Yeah, I'm getting there, but it's so hot. It's so hot right now. I sweat all weekend. I was literally dead tired yesterday and I thought I'm not doing anything. So I had to get up and do something deer related this morning.

Dan Johnson (49:58.206)
Yeah

Dan Johnson (50:06.465)
Yeah, my shoulder, I got an injection in my shoulder on Thursday. So it's feeling a little bit better. I'm gonna go shoot my bow after I get some work done today. And then outside of that, looking, making sure I have the right broadheads. I'm having some trouble tuning some broadheads that I have. I talked with the manufacturer. He, long story short, he's like, he's like, these types of broadheads are perfect for 30 and in.

but if you're going for something a little longer, maybe try these. So he sent me some of those. And worst case scenario, I'll just go back to my mechanicals that I've been shooting for the past God knows how many years.

Jason Thibodeau (50:34.686)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (50:46.178)
Yep

Yeah, so I think I brought it up the brand that I was shooting this year and was trying and so they make two versions of it they make an expandable version but they also make a fixed blade version and the practice head that you can buy for these is the same exact thing. So I've got these practice heads dialed into 60 so far and I'll go back to 80 and up to 100 if I can. But what I did was I actually ordered a three pack of the fixed blades because you had me intrigued after the last time we talked about losing that energy.

Dan Johnson (51:14.411)
Mm

Jason Thibodeau (51:17.755)
and everything I thought if I'm already citing it in with these practice points I might as well have the fixed blades right here in case my only shot is a longer shot I'm not going to lose that energy at that longer distance

Dan Johnson (51:18.304)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (51:31.509)
Yes, yeah. dude, we're probably just overthinking all this stuff. We're just wasting our time thinking about all this stuff, but Jason Mann, I really appreciate you taking time again to do this. Good luck to absolutely everybody out there right now who's getting ready, getting ramped up or is in the process of hunting now. Be safe, wear your safety harness, shoot your weapon and be patient.

Jason Thibodeau (51:37.025)
Yep. Yep.

Dan Johnson (52:00.565)
I think being patient is a really good idea this time of year. Don't go in and blow your load is what I'm saying.

Jason Thibodeau (52:08.256)
I did.

Yeah, I do too. was just going to say that just because it's hot and you don't feel like going hunting doesn't mean you can't do something hunting related. You know, you can always, you know, work with your bow. You can always get in a tree and shoot out of a tree. Just like Dan said, though, use your safety harness. I don't think we talked about that quite a bit or quite as much as we should because it.

Dan Johnson (52:28.479)
Yeah, yep, absolutely, absolutely. Well, here's to another week. Good luck everybody, and we'll talk to you next time.

Jason Thibodeau (52:36.939)
See ya.

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