What did you learn Part 3

The third and final instalment of the "what did you learn" series drops this week on the Oklahoma Outdoors Podcast. John is joined by Josh Garroutte to once again break down their 2022 hunting seasons and figure out what they can learn to make their future hunts better. This was a great episode to have Josh on, as he did a lot of learning during his 2022 deer season. A typical November finds Josh chasing whitetails on the ground in states like Kansas or Iowa, but since he didn't draw a tag in either of those states, he spent the entire month right here in Oklahoma chasing bucks in the mountains.

After growing accustomed to a more spot and stalk form of hunting over the last few years, 2022 had Josh going back to the basics and more traditional styles of whitetail hunting. He spent time studying scrapes and licking branches, diving deep into herd health with protein feeds and minerals, and working on his shooting form mid season. John also threw in a few lessons of his own, like why you SHOULD NOT hunt your best spot, why you should hunt for yourself, and how he found himself once again learning that trail cameras don't always tell the whole story.

John Hudspeth: [00:00:00] Hey guys and gals, welcome to the Oklahoma Outdoors Podcast, brought to you by Arrowhead Land Company. Here you'll be educated, entertained, and equipped to get more out of your outdoor experience. So hold on tight because here we go.

What's up, my podcast people. I hope all you guys are doing good. Welcome to the Oklahoma Outdoors Podcast. I'm feeling jazzed. I just downed a chocolate cupcake before I started recording, so I'm feeling very good. And man, I, I feel like I've had to say this way too much the last couple weeks, but I hope all you guys are safe and sound.

We had another terrible round of storms come in a few days ago. I saw. Just horrific looking pictures online. Looked like the Sahara Desert in central Oklahoma. We got another line of [00:01:00] storms coming through tonight. Man, just, I hope everybody's staying safe and man, I hope all these storms are behind us.

I know it's spring, it's not even tornado season yet, but this has just been pretty ridiculous the last couple weeks. Hope everybody's safe. Thank you guys for tuning in. We have a great show. Tonight. We are doing part three, which is also the fourth episode because of weird technical difficulties of the what did you Learn podcast series.

And so yeah, we got a good one. But before, before we get to that, I got a little bit of an up. Date last weekend pretty much just stayed home all weekend. Hung out with the baby, hung out with my wife. Had a grand old time, but this coming weekend, my wife is gonna be outta town again. She's going on a little girl's trip which is awesome.

Very happy for her. She needs it. But so I thought this weekend as far as outdoorsy type stuff was gonna be a little bit of a waste. But talked to my mom a day or two ago and found out she's actually planning to head to the ranch, which means I can also head to the ranch and she can do a little bit of babysitting for me.

[00:02:00] Yeah, that's the plan. I'm gonna be back on the dozer. Very excited about that. My plan is to, first I'm going. Do my dozer line around the canyon. Man I measured up the acreage. I think it worked out to 48 acres. I don't remember how long of a fire line that is, but it's pretty darn long. and so got a lot of fire line to make.

And then if I get that done, then I might do a little bit more work in my bedding areas. I got two areas that I wanna do some more clearing. It'd be nice to, get a little bit more fuel on the ground so that when I burn torches it all up, clear some of the big, bulky stuff and makes room for some nice just awesome natural brows and cover and all that good stuff to pop up.

That's the plan for this weekend. Oh. Last weekend I did, I forgot. I got to catch a fish. I actually caught five fish, five bass. That was super fun. I just threw the pole in the back of my truck. Got off work a little bit early on. I think it was Thursday, and just stopped by a little farm pond.

Caught four or five bass real [00:03:00] quick and then headed home. So that was fun. Got to scratch my itch a little bit on the fishing thing. I'm dying to get the lake get to the lake, get my boat out on the, That has not happened yet, but I did plug the batteries in the other day. Made sure they're good to go.

Yeah, boat battery's still good. Trolling motors. Battery's still good. So good to go there. Just gotta find some time to actually get out on the water. So yeah, still gotta do that, but like I said, gonna be running the dozer this weekend. Super excited about that. Might do a little bit of shed. What's today?

Today is February might be, it's getting close to be shed hunting time. I keep hearing more and more people saying about how they've found a bunch of sheds already or some bucks of shed early. Actually, we talked about one in this episode that shed real early But yeah, so ready to get out there, find some sheds.

Yeah, it's just, it's a great time of year. I'm feeling super energized. Today was like a nice sunny day, even though the last couple days have been pretty gross and supposedly tonight's supposed to be gross, but anytime it's good sunny weather, I'm usually gonna be a PR in a pretty good [00:04:00] mood. And when I get a chocolate cupcake, It just puts it over the top so yeah, that is about it.

Oh, one more time. I do wanna throw out the Backwood show. I think this might be the last episode that comes out before the show. We might have one more. But again, not having a booth this year, but I am gonna be there. If you're there, hit me up on Instagram find me, and yeah, I'd love to meet, you'd love to talk a little bit, chat about whatever.

Yeah, I love meeting you guys and it's been really fun. The, the more I do this, the more interactions I get with listeners and stuff, and I absolutely love it. It really does make my day when you guys, send me messages or flag me down or whatever. If you see me, be sure to say hi.

What else? That I think is about all I have. We have a nice long episode this week. Today we're talking to yet again returning guest, Mr. Josh Guru. This I think is his fourth time on. He's been on twice solo and then once, I think it was episode 99, I think I did with him and Johnny.

So yeah, [00:05:00] Josh was on. And Josh had a little bit of a different season this year. So the, in the previous episodes he's done Josh is a, is a, mostly a ground hunter. He does, he goes to Kansas a lot, Iowa, a lot. But this year he did not draw either of those states and so he was kinda. I wouldn't say put on his heels.

He still hunts some here in Oklahoma, but this year that's all he had. And so he talks about his lease and it's more of the mountainous area, which is really cool. And he just kinda talks about he was forced to learn a bunch this year because he was a little bit out of his element.

And so that just fit right in with the what did you Learn series we've been doing. So great conversation. I came up with a few more myself. Josh came up with a few and I think y'all are really going to enjoy this. And so as far as I know, I think this is gonna be the last one, at least deer related for this year.

I don't know, we'll see, but I think this is probably gonna close it out. , y'all are probably ready for me to move on to something else and so I like to, give a little bit of variety. Anyway. Yeah. Episode or part number three here. [00:06:00] Hope you guys are ready for it, because we're gonna get into it after a quick word from our partners right after this.

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You can use Deer Lab for all kinds of critters, including hogs and turkeys. So just because it's spring doesn't mean it's time to put those cameras away. You can collect those photos, upload them to [00:07:00] Deer Lab, and use all the same advantages you use to keep tabs on those trophy. To hunt down that big bore or shredding Tom, give it a look@deerlab.com.

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If you're looking to buy or sell a piece of property, give the hardworking agents a Arrowhead Land Company a call. Their vast experience and knowledge of the [00:08:00] state gives them a huge advantage when it comes to buying or selling your property. Their agents stretch to all corners of Oklahoma. And they're quickly growing their team in other states as well.

That's Arrowhead Land Company. Hardworking agents for hardworking landowners. Hey everybody, welcome to today's show. And today we have returning guest, Josh Guru. How you doing Josh? Doing good, John. How you been man? Doing pretty good. Pretty good. Ready to knock out another great episode. And you've been on how many times?

I believe

Josh Garroutte: this makes four. I think I did two solo and then I did one with John

John Hudspeth: Griffin. That's right. I forgot about that one. And for those of you listening, y'all probably remember Josh, he usually is on here talking about hunting off the ground. The first time you were on, I know that was, one of my most listened to episodes and when I had you back on, people loved it and so decided to bring you on again.

But today we're gonna tw change things up just a little bit or at least I think so. I don't know. We may get into some ground stuff, but we're going to continue [00:09:00] part three of my, what did You Learn? Series. And so we're gonna both be on here. We're gonna talk about our previous season, things we did right, things we did.

So yeah, who knows where this will go. But real quick, Josh, in case somebody's listening to this and they didn't catch the other episodes, why don't you just give us a little bit about yourself? Okay.

Josh Garroutte: I'm Josh Guru. I live in Muskogee, Oklahoma. I love the Bo Hunt and that's my passion spot in stalking Kansas.

That's where I love to be. If I can, if I draw, and

John Hudspeth: that's a little bit about. Gotcha. Awesome. I know I mentioned this every time I have you on that. I've, had a point in Kansas for years and but I haven't actually gone up there and hunted. I actually checked like last week or something.

I was going over all my, preference point stuff and I saw I actually looked up cause I thought it expired. My, my point is still good. I think if I don't use. this year. It'll, I think they expire after five years. And so if I don't use it this year, really I didn't know that I'm, I think I'm right on [00:10:00] that, that's what I looked up five years ago.

I didn't double check it this time. So yeah. But yeah I, several years ago, I just bought one just for the heck of it. I, even though I knew I wasn't gonna go that year, cause I know, with no points. I wanna say nowadays it's around 50 50 I think. But I think if you have one point, it's almost a hundred percent.

That's a guarantee. Yep.

Josh Garroutte: I think it's gonna start for Candace is gonna start taking at least two points in here in the next two years. I bet.

John Hudspeth: Oh yeah, man. Yeah. See, I gotta get up there now before it before it gets crazy . But anyway, we're not here to talk about that today. I just had to throw that little tidbit out.

But like I said, we're gonna, we're gonna jump into the, what did You Learn series. It's this is my this is my. Third one to do with a guest. And then last week I did a different one where I'm, I looked at my whole 18 year white toe hunting career and went a little further back, but but yeah, this week basically, but I'm, what I'm trying to say is if I'm stretching a couple of these, I've been learning a lot the last few episodes.

And so yeah, that's cool, man. I'll I'll quit rambling on. We'll jump into [00:11:00] this and I'll kick us off. And this one I came to realize earlier last week. It's something that I've been doing for the last couple years, but I just kinda realized it. Last week I was watching a video by Bill Winky, actually, and I love Bill.

He's, yes, so much knowledge but he was talking about how you should never hunt your best spot. And he was doing like a consulting thing. I think he was actually in Kansas with a client and. And and I didn't really get what he meant at first until he started, ex started explaining, and I realized that I've been doing this the last couple years.

But what he meant is, wherever your farm is or yeah, wherever you're hunting, whether that's, 80 acres or a thousand acres, doesn't really matter. Wherever the deer, like really want to be, really, feel comfortable. Basically you don't want to hunt that spot. Like you wanna let the deer have that so that they continue to feel comfortable there and everything.

And you need to hunt the outsides hunt 200 yards out, a hundred yards out depending on the terrain, however it is. And [00:12:00] when he said that, it registered with me that I've, accidentally been doing this. Place that I hunt now. I'm always talking about the canyon.

It's this rough area in the back. We, us, we actually fenced it off so the cows can't get back there, and it's just a spot where it's not easily accessible. The deer feel really natural. And the first year we had this place I put a feeder like in the heart of the canyon. And I remember, like I got very little activity on that feeder that year.

And and after ob observing and stuff, I'd always see deer on the rim of it. So the next year I moved that feeder back a couple hundred yards, right on the edge. And I'd get lots of pictures of deer, but when I went to hunt it, I still just wasn't really seeing. And so the next year I moved it even further out, and that would've been about two, two years ago or something.

And the last two years I've had way more success being further out, basically letting the deer have their area where they're completely natural, they feel comfortable. There's no human presence in there. And then basically I just have to put in the time, bid my time, wait for the right.

[00:13:00] Hunt further out and let them come to me, and I've been way more successful that way. So my first tip is don't hunt your best spot.

Josh Garroutte: Yeah. I on our lease this year, we, and this is our second year to have it, so we hunted , I guess this past season and the season before, which, we got it like October, right at October 1st, so we really didn't get to do much or know much about it. So this whole season, this past season, we, I was down there all October. I didn't draw Kansas or Iowa, so I was there all November pretty much. And we have a place we call the Sanctuary and there's no stands in it.

We have no feeders or anything in it. We have some feeders that are close, like you said, a couple hundred yards away or so. And basically everybody stays out. We don't go in there. We can, we drive around it and on our road, but as far as going down in there and hunting and human presence, we don't go in there and it holds a lot of bucks.

A lot of bucks come in there and get dough and take 'em out, and then that's , we hunt 'em when they leave. It's kinda like what you're doing. Yeah.

John Hudspeth: Yeah, I think that's great and but you [00:14:00] also, you wanna make sure it's good habitat, not just habitat that you won't stay out of. A lot of people, and I'm not saying y'all do this, just saying, a lot of people are like, oh, , I have this thick area, or this swamp area and stuff, so that's gonna be my sanctuary because I can't get in there anyway.

You wanna make sure that it's also, good habitat and a good spot for the deer to be. Yes. Oh yeah, for

Josh Garroutte: sure. , the food, water

John Hudspeth: bedding. . Exactly. Exactly. You want them to have all their needs and just Yeah. The hu the human intrusion is a big part of it also yeah. Yeah. And a lot of times,

Josh Garroutte: a lot of times people are getting close and they say I'm hunting close, but I'm not getting in there.

What? They don't realize they're getting clo too close. , and they're not, they don't realize that they're too close and they're busting the big boy out of there and they don't know it. And they're like, man, I haven't seen him this buck. I haven't seen this buck in a while. , they're, they've probably pushed.

with the wrong wind or something and they don't and they just didn't know that they

John Hudspeth: have. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say, the closer you get, the more picky you have to be about your wind because even, even if the wind isn't necessarily blowing like from you to the feeder or you to, the [00:15:00] food plot or whatever, if your wind is blowing from you into that area where the deer gonna come out of, you're still affecting it, even though you might not see them, react to it, in the food plot or feed or whatever.

If your wind is still blowing in there, you're still affecting it in a negative way.

Josh Garroutte: Oh, a hundred percent. I've been guilty of it hunting too. Probably too close. I'm not seeing the bucks that I want, I should be seeing and they're probably smelling me going right around me, . .

John Hudspeth: Yep. So that's that's number one for me. What about you? What are you gonna kick us off with? Man, I'm gonna kick off with

Josh Garroutte: something. It's not necessarily has to do with the actual hunting during the season. This is gonna pertain to what's coming up right now. And like with our lease that we just got, we've been digging the feeding hardcore protein and mineral like all year round and mainly through the.

Time when they're growing and stuff. And what I've been doing a lot of research on and reading about is theirs sheds, what can their sheds show you? Can they show you anything helpful as far as just Hey, this is the book I gotten last year. This is what he was this year. Let's measuring and see how much he [00:16:00] grew.

So I've been reading some stuff, and if you find a shed and you look at the bottom of it and like the calcium build up underneath on the the butt of it. . If the calcium is not sticking up and it's got like a oval in it and it's it's below the bur, it means that your deer was either sick, had an injury or he is not getting the nutrients and protein and minerals that he needs.

But if it's, if it stick like a she, I'm looking at right now, if it sticks up above the bur, it's got a big round, round oval on top not sunk down below the burn. It means that you're deer healthy, they're getting a nutrients protein that they're getting. , I'm gonna use that this year. So I look back, I went and got some of the sheds that I found last year.

That was prior to us having a lease that we found. And a lot of the, a lot of the sheds had the oval in 'em. They were sunken in, they weren't above the bur, they were real low. And some of the sheds I've already found this year, actually, I found a couple sheds the last day of deer season, January 15th.

And these bucks have been on [00:17:00] our protein all. and they are above the bur and are he healthy? Now with the buck starting to shed, I'm ready to get out to upper shed season just to find the sheds and find what bucks, hey, are these bucks in this area? Are they doing good versus over here?

Do I need to get more mineral over here type of stuff and just see if my herd's doing healthy. And I've never heard anybody talk about that or seen anybody do it. I just come across this article and I started reading on it, and so I went down a rabbit hole on it, . So that's another thing that you guys can use to, may help manage your herd and see if they're getting or getting the protein nutrients that you think that they are and they might not be when you think that they are.

John Hudspeth: . Man, that's it. Yeah. I've never heard that either. I've heard if you have a weird pedicle and stuff, sometimes that can mean like an injury or, it broke off and didn't fall off type thing. But yeah, I've never heard that about being able to judge the health of your deer.

That's super helpful.

Josh Garroutte: Yeah. I never know that. So I got all my sheds. I started looking man, and I was saying, okay, yeah, this one is way, this was way. This one's above it, when you start looking at [00:18:00] different states and stuff and it's it's a, it's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. It was a cool read.

I was, I wished I knew where I found that article and where I started reading about it. And I, so I could get that to go read on it. But, and that's an, that would be a very helpful tip for us that we're gonna, we're gonna use our lease. We feed protein and mineral year round, so that's gonna help us see that if it's helping, our deer.

John Hudspeth: . Yeah. And mineral especially is not that expensive for people to do on their properties. One thing I've found years and years ago, I tried to buy like a bag of like granular mini mineral, and I've. I discovered that the hogs love that stuff. Yeah. I know I have the picture somewhere.

I have a picture, like the day I poured it out, I have a picture of this little bitty probably 20 pound hog, like rubbing his butt in it and his mouth he just looks like he's having the best time of his entire life, and they group got on it and they had that stuff eaten down in a day.

So for me, down where I'm at, in a big hog area. I always use the blocks. Yeah. Like even the, either the [00:19:00] square ones that come or the, oh gosh, what's the natural one that's super po trophy rock. Trophy rock. I've had a lot of success with trophy rocks. So just for anybody listening, if you're in a hog area, you might wanna go with a block and not a bag.

Josh Garroutte: Yeah. We have a lot of hogs. We had to build. . We built panels around all of our feeders. And keep the hogs and the cow and the cows out. We're gonna, I'm gonna, we're gonna try something a little different this year. I went to a deer farm and talked to a couple guys and, trying to get, what protein do we need, be seeding what all we need to be seeding and the main thing that they told me was in the summer months, they need lots of calcium and copper.

They said copper promotes antler growth by making the blood vessels bigger open up. . . And that's what they feed in the summertimes and stuff. So we're gonna try to pour much calcium and copper to 'em. Not you gotta wash your copper line. So they said we've been doing some research on it.

But there's some stuff, there's some stuff called it's called supercharger supplement. It's by [00:20:00] Big B feeds outta the callister. And he said he recommends feeding. . Yeah, he said that without being able to mix your own copper and stuff and get it right, he said that stuff's got all the pretty high cows, got a high calcium rate and a high copper rate with it.

So he said Rick and then us trying that. So we're gonna try feeding that with our, mixing that with our feed this year and see how it does with our feed and have it on the ground as well for our, in all of our feeders.

John Hudspeth: Gotcha. Very cool. I think I mentioned, now jogging my memory when me, you and Johnny were on that I used to feed dairy pellets cuz they're super high in calcium, to help cows produce milk.

, but I fed some this last summer and it was only about a dollar cheaper than actual protein. So I don't know if that's a, for that price you might as well just spend the money and get all the other good stuff as. . Yeah,

Josh Garroutte: calcium. Calcium has gotten a lot higher. I used to buy it like, like how you were feeding it and feed it a lot cheaper, but now it's just gone up in price like crazy.

John Hudspeth: Yeah. Yeah. I think gosh, that would've been about four, four or five years ago. I think I was [00:21:00] only paying about seven 50 a bag, something like that. And so it's pretty much doubled now. Yeah. Yeah. I want to say this supercharger

Josh Garroutte: stuff is like 30 something dollars a bag, but you don't.

You'd only mix, you only mix a little bit at a time with your feet or on the ground. You don't, you're not gonna feed, you're not gonna feed a bag of this stuff every week or every other

John Hudspeth: week, yeah. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. All right. Very cool. That's a, yeah, great tip with the sheds. All right.

Number two for me. This one should be pretty self-explanatory, but it's hunt for yourself and your own goals. That's something. Struggled with a little bit since starting the podcast and kind of being, just more people following along with my hunts and sharing and I enjoy that and I love it.

I have to fight that line of, basically hunting the way I want to hunt and killing the deer that I want to kill versus what I think I should be killing, or the way I should be hunting, because people are watching and Yeah. You need footage. You need content. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

. That's right. Yeah. I know you do a bunch of filming, so I'm [00:22:00] sure you feel that too. And the example I have this year is so I killed a really nice buck with my muzzle loader this year. This is I'd say my third year, really muzzle loader hunting and I got to hunt very little in November because, I had the baby and everything and I was going on my elk hunt, so I was trying to save up the brownie points.

But I went up, I think I got to, I think I only sat for with a rifle in Oklahoma, like two days this year. I think I did. A morning, a evening and a morning. And that evening that I was hunting I had just decided my rifle in to go on my elk hunt. I had sit in at 300 yards. I was hunting that evening and I had a super nice eight point walkout.

He, the fir, the closest he got was about three 50. He was, most of the time he was at about 400, but big, nice eight point. And I was sitting there, like I. I was comfortable. Normally I wouldn't feel so good about shooting that far, but I had just been practicing I'd sighted in my rifle and stuff.

But just the more I looked at him, I've been fortunate. I've killed a lot of really nice eights. [00:23:00] And I that year, that would've been my second buck with a gun and not a bow. And I usually like to save one tag for the bow. . And so I ended up letting that deer walk.

And it would've been really easy for me to kill that deer and say I filled both my buck tags and, pictures for Instagram and everything. But I just knew that if I killed another, 1 35 ish, eight point with a rifle that did, I just wasn't gonna be happy with it. Like I was gonna be filled with a threat.

Yeah. And I had nicer deer running around. And so I ended up letting that deer walk. And, 10 years ago, I would've been ecstatic with that deer. Like I said, most people would. But just in that moment with that weapon, at that distance, it just didn't do it for me.

I like getting in deer in close. I like feeling like I tricked him or, outsmarted 'em and stuff. Yeah. And I just didn't have that feeling right then, and I, I tried to think about it later. I was like, if that deer would've been at a hundred yards would I have felt differently about.

I don't know, maybe I would have but just in the moment I wasn't feeling it. But I just wanna encourage people listening, especially like younger or [00:24:00] newer hunters that are listening to this. Cuz I fell into that as a kid. I I didn't kill my first deer with a bow until I was like, 22 or 23, even though I started hunting with a boat like 17 and it was bec, I coulda shot, do I coulda shot yearlings or two year olds, but I just, I was like, oh, like you have to kill a big buck.

Cause I was reading the magazine articles and seeing it on TV and stuff, and I hurt myself cause I didn't get that experience of, actually killing, drawing on deer and shooting deer and everything. So yeah, man, if it makes you happy, shoot it.

Josh Garroutte: Yeah, exactly man, people. That You make a good point, man.

People get caught up too much in the Instagram and the Facebook and the social media stuff, and I didn't kill a deer this year, and I have a ton of people. Dude, you didn't kill a deer. You didn't, you mean you always kill big bucks. You didn't kill a deer. I'm like, I don't, I don't have to kill a deer and I'm trying to film and make footage and, I need footage from our YouTube channel and all that stuff but.

I'm not just gonna shoot a buck to get footage because that's [00:25:00] not why I hunt or who I am. I have a certain level of deer that I'm after, or maturity that I'm after. And I've been fortunate enough, like you and I've killed a lot of these young, younger deer when I was younger, growing up with my dad to hunt and, some people didn't have that chance or don't have that chance.

take, shoot some dough, shoot some younger bucks. Like you said, draw your bow back, shoot a couple with your bow before a mus load or rifle. It doesn't matter how big it is, if it makes you happy and you get you pumped up, man, shoot that deer fill your freezer. , it's too easy to get caught up.

Caught up in in the social media fan and all that, posting and tagged out stuff. It's too easy to caught up in it just to have fun. .

John Hudspeth: Yep. So yeah, that's by number two. What about you? What's the next one for us, ma'am?

Josh Garroutte: The last probably four or 5, 6, 7 years. The last long time I've been hunt, I mainly hunt outta state.

I don't really hunt Oklahoma that much a little bit. We've had some leases, got 'em where we wanted, lost him. So this year is the first year [00:26:00] that I've really had a, another, a lease that I could be down there for the entire summer. And be there to hunt all November. And so southeast Oklahoma, it's we have like probably a 500 foot elevation change throughout our property that we have.

Nice. So it's big rolling hills, mountain bucks, and I haven't really, I really, how I hunt and Candace and stuff through November. Spot in stock is completely different to a tree stand hunting, so running trail cameras. This summer I stumbled upon a. what I thought when I seen it, cuz of how new and fresh the brake looked on the, on a on this limb.

I was like, man that's a year round Lincoln branch. . So I went and got a trail camera stuck on it, put it on video and I put a little feed out to the north of it and I let it set for a couple weeks and man, oh man, did I start getting the bucks on camera? That, with these bucks that we're getting on camera, were on any of our feeders and these bucks were all bigger than any buck that we've ever seen out.[00:27:00]

and they were hitting just, they were hitting the feet a little bit, but mainly they were hitting that licking branch. Like once every two or three weeks. And if I were, I should've stayed in that area and hunted that licking branch and stuff a lot more because those big mig and sure bucks were coming through there like every two or three weeks of hitting that licking branch, making their scrapes down that road and.

I've never hunted, around, around a liquor branch like that or seen one like that. I, you know how I used to hunting and I hunted a flat that the year before last when I was in November, when I was in Kansas, November, or had a ton of bucks hitting this flat. And I should have pulled off that flat and started hunting that licking branch a lot more that, that kind of sign more than hunting that, which that's gonna get me into my next one.

. So I don't wanna get too, I don't wanna get too far, but Yeah. But man, just like the early sign like that, those licking branches and stuff, how key they are. And I've seen videos and I watched a lot of videos and I know that they're key and stuff, but I didn't understand, [00:28:00] really understand it completely until seeing with my own eyes and how even late season, how these bucks are coming through there, checking those licking branches and checking that even early season, mid-season, during, even during the rut and even late season, those big bucks are coming.

hitting that same licking branch, that same, almost the same time zone as they were. Early season. It's, it was pretty cool to see that with my own eyes. . So now going in into next year, I'm gonna focus on, I can that licking branch, try to find a few more in some of the areas that I've found and focus hunting.

Those ar outskirts of those areas where they're coming from

John Hudspeth: into there. . Yeah, man, that's a, that's one thing that is cool about hunting. The area I've been hunting is, yeah, you get a lot of that. Our old place, man, there was this one old logging road that if you walk down there, the end of October, early November.

You could probably count 30 scrapes along this login road. There was only about 150, 200 yards long. Anytime there was a branch over this road, they'd be hitting it. I learned quite a bit [00:29:00] about a, the place I hunt now, we don't have very many big trees, so you don't see that many scrapes.

But I did a little bit of hunting on public this year on a place that's pretty close to us. And yeah, it was cool. I ended up setting up two cameras out. I took one originally, set it up on what I thought was an old, kind of hub scrape. And then I went back the next week to, I took a, another camera with me and I went to check that one.

And like in that one week, I think it was a Saturday to a Saturday. I bet I counted, oh gosh, I don't know. Another, at least dozen rubs that had popped up just in that one, little timeframe. And I should have been in there hunting. I ended up, that was actually the weekend I killed my buck with the muzzle loaders that last weekend of October.

But yeah, that, that last week of October especially, like that can be a fantastic strategy of hunting those licking branches, the scrapes reading that just natural sign cuz those deer, that time of. , they're laying it down and they're moving between it and they're checking them, seeing who else is in the area.

So yeah, that can be a great strategy that time. Yes. Sure.[00:30:00] And

Josh Garroutte: I noticed in later in into the rut, when they're looking for more dozer they're hitting that, they're hitting that licking branch a lot

John Hudspeth: more. In

Josh Garroutte: the later end of the rut looking, they're searching for those, hitting that a lot more.

And the there was a day I was going down there to hang a stand. I was gonna hunt, but I ha and some guys that are on our lease, Georgia were coming in that morning, so I couldn't hunt, I couldn't go down there and hunt. I had to be back to show them around and help, I wanted to help them get set up cause they were only gonna be there a week.

So I wanted them to have the best, opportunity to kill a deer. So I was gonna help them. So I end up not going down there and putting a stand. And when I in did get down there and put a stand, we found that cat kill down there. And so that Oh yeah. Messed every, that messed everything up.

. And you've probably seen me post about it, the cat kill and. And then they had a trail camera. A guy had a trail camera five miles north of there, a big mountain lion. Probably like a couple weeks after I posted that the next night after he posted it. They actually, some coup hunters that that were on the property that so they, the people that own our lease, own a [00:31:00] big property right around us too.

. At the east end of their property a couple miles from us. They treed the mountain lion, the coon hunting the next night.

John Hudspeth: That'd be quite a surprise. .

Josh Garroutte: So it was that later end of the season that, that kind of messed my, that kind of pushed a lot of the big bucks out and I didn't really see 'em on camera down there in the late season after that cat kill and stuff.

Yeah.

John Hudspeth: Gotcha. Gotcha, man. That's. Unless you walk into a cat when you're walking into the woods, but , it's not awesome. . Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Maybe you get him on trail camera. It'd be cool

Josh Garroutte: to have one on trail camera. Yeah. Oh yeah, that would be cool.

John Hudspeth: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. . My number three plays into what you were talking about just a little bit.

You were talking about how, you're getting pictures of bucks on those looking branches that you weren't getting on your feeders and stuff and Yeah. My number three is basically that, trail cameras can reveal a lot, but they don't reveal everything. Exactly. This year I bought I bought four new Tcam cell.

Which I highly recommend. I loved them. And but anyway, so I went and [00:32:00] at one time and set all four of them up. And they were all sending me pictures. I was loving it. They were all yeah, they were all four on feeders and but anyway, this one camera, it just, I wasn't getting pictures very often, and so in my mind, I just assumed that it was because there wasn't that many deer.

And so I wasn't hunting that spot because I was, I was relying on that camera. The camera was, telling me that there weren't deer there, so I wasn't hunting it. And then I went to that spot for some, I think I went to there to to check the feeder, like right around, it was late October, I think it was during muzzle loader season.

And and I know I walked in the, in front of the camera. I was doing the, when I missed with the feeder and everyth, And I noticed that it never sent a picture and all the other ones, when I was messing with the feeder, it sent a picture while I was. . And so just for, curiosity.

I, I pulled the card and put it in the computer and there were hundreds of pictures on that camera that had not sent . And come to find out it was just in a low spot and it wasn't. Every once in a while it would get service and send a few [00:33:00] pictures, but for the most part, it just didn't have service.

And yeah, like a few days before that, there were two really good shooters on there. Actually, one of 'em was the eight point that I talked about right before this. And then the other one, I don't know if you've heard me talk about my 2% buck. He, this year was a seven and a half year old. He in the past was right around that Boer status this year.

He with the drought and everything he took a few steps back. But both of them had been on that camera in the last couple. and I just had no idea cuz I was basically, I was relying on it too much, especially cell cameras. If you have a regular camera, at least you're in there, checking it, the actual card every once in a while.

But even then, I've seen deer walk right behind them. I've seen them, I can't say I've ever seen one like physically skirt, look at a camera and go around or realize that it was there. But Deere just, yeah, especially mature bucks, they're not gonna take the exact same path every single.

And so no trio cameras are great. Like I still use 'em. I still rely on 'em a lot. But you have to just [00:34:00] keep in mind that they're not telling the whole story. No. They cover like 10% of an

Josh Garroutte: area, . 60 foot in front of 'em and 20 foot wide, they have to walk right in front of it.

That's why I've been, this year I ran two or three cameras on, around each of my feeders and around, it's not right on my feeder, but around them and stuff. , just for that reason. So I'm trying to, I'm trying to catch to see when one of the big boys are at a certain spot.

John Hudspeth: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I remembered us talking about it. I meant to do it. I just, I ran outta cameras this year, , so I was trying to, it's easy to do. You lost. I know. I was trying to really hone in on that that 2% bucket. So I was putting a bunch of, the same area, but yeah, I meant to put I, I actually, I was gonna put one, like on one of the wooden posts around my feeder pin, I was gonna put one facing the feeder and I was gonna put one facing out.

Because just hunting that spot, I've watched your skirt the outside of the pin and not actually jump in. But yeah, of course I didn't get to it. But yeah, that's what was that for me? Number? That was number three for me. You got a number three for us? Yeah.

Josh Garroutte: Man, [00:35:00] just like you down south, the drought. What man? The drought where we were at was like a, what do they call it, like a class four drought, which was back in like the dust bowl base.

Yeah. So like I had all these deer patterns pretty good before, right before season. Cuz of the drought, man the drought and it changed a bunch of it changes a bunch of stuff. The drought really does. Our farmers were having to move cattle from one, one passer to the next and you know where all the ponds.

And I think there's a lot of bucks that didn't show up this year that usually show up during the rut that I noticed from the years PA or from the year past that were there. , I know they were alive be unless they didn't make it through the winter. But I think they moved on to a better water.

So during the season, I was hunting a flat. . I had all these bucks coming too last November before last. Must will be 21. And so I'm there this year waiting. Now I'm on this flat, I'm hunting and I've got tons of deer coming in there and I'm waiting. I'm [00:36:00] trying to hunt these bucks that come in that don't stay on our property and I can hunt some of the bucks that do stay on our property, late season, so one thing I did notice about the drought is a lot of the bucks that I did have on camera that were shooters were breaking their antlers. They're real brittle. They were sta the couple shooters broke off during velvet when they were rubbing. They broke off just right before pre rut breaking off, so that, that eliminated a few off there.

And I got stubborn this year. I, and I know I should have moved, but I was just hunting this flat and I knew these bucks were gonna come in. and they didn't show up. I had probably eight or nine bucks that were, should have been shooters this year that didn't, that lived on another property that come to us during the rut and they didn't show up for whatever reason.

I'm gonna say it has to do with the drought because it was so dry that they pushed off and I'd talked to another guy that has a lease down there close to me and. and without him knowing how my feeling went, and was going, he was talking to me and he was like, man, I just, the bucks that I had last year that come in here to interrupt.

He's they didn't, they never showed up. They didn't show back up. I don't know what happened. And it's the same thing what [00:37:00] happened with me. The bucks that I was hunting and banking on coming in that I wanted to hunt, that I had on camera last year, they never showed up. And I sat there and I hunted too long in one spot during the hardcore of the rut.

I was seeing good, don't get me wrong. And I was seeing good bucks. , I was passing really good deer. I was just had my mind set on these other bucks that should be in there, that should be, that were gonna be stud and they never showed up. Now it could have been something completely different, but I'm thinking it was the drought on how the water issue and the food issue down there was, it was so bad that they pushed onto a different place and never made it back.

. And another thing that I noticed with the drought, A lot of my buck shooter bucks that I was gonna hunt all my places. I was plan to hunting late season, like in December. In January they started shedding earliest buck when my buck started shedding in December 12th. Wow. And then they, then it was just one right after another.

Almost instantly I'd get on camera, another one, shed another one. So I had quite a few bucks shed before, before Christmas time that were [00:38:00] shooters.

John Hudspeth: Wow. Wow. Yeah,

Josh Garroutte: that's, yeah, and I've never seen that before, but I've also never hunted in a drought as bad as it was down there this year.

It was really bad. Even though we had mineral and we had food out for 'em and stuff. I still think that drink having fresh water to drink and the minerals in that fresh water, I think that has something to do with helping. I don't know, I could be completely wrong, but I just, that's what I wanted to believe, I think the deer will, will move to that, move to other areas that are not in such a bad drought. I, and so now if we do have another bad drought, again, I know how to, I know how to play my deer a little bit better and where they're gonna be at. And if they put more cows in a certain area, I know how to, where the deer gonna move.

The, you're gonna push the deer. The cows are gonna push the deer a certain way, they're gonna travel different. So I know how to hunt, hunt that area different. I know that if it's a bad drought, my bucks are gonna, Super early, so I need to try to hunt 'em a little bit harder earlier and instead of waiting on these bucks that come in, but they're not gonna come in.

So I learned a lot this year with the drought. I believe it. [00:39:00] It really threw us for a loop, but we got her figured out. Now I do believe. .

John Hudspeth: Yeah. And that's great to, not only make those OB observations, but yeah. Remember 'em for the future like you were talking about in case it, very well could happen again.

I sure hope not. It yes. Yeah. I hope not it, it definitely threw a kink in my plane as well. You know that back area I was talking about on our place we. , we usually only put the cows back there one time a year. It's usually after the first of the year. It gives my brother a little break around the holidays and stuff he doesn't have to feed and everything.

But this last year, like you were saying, because of the drought, there's all this nice luscious grass back there. And he turned the cows out back there and of course they eat down. Food plots and everything. But yeah, what hurt me the most was just the cover that they ate down.

Cause normally there's a bunch of, big blue stem and Indian grass that's, real tall and thick and makes those deer feel secure. But the cows ate all that down. Yeah. And yeah, it really changed how they used the property because they just, they didn't feel as comfortable being out in those open areas like they normally would be.

Yeah. Yeah. [00:40:00]

Josh Garroutte: You're right. And that's the same thing that happened in our places. Like what you said, the cows they ate all that

John Hudspeth: cover stuff down. Too. Yeah, for I know it's weird for us being, complaining about our, how it hurt our deer hunting when there's farmers and ranchers that were in, serious financial circumstances, being threatened.

But but yeah, just for everybody's sake, hope, we've been getting a lot of rain these last few weeks and but I feel and I almost hate to say this, I feel like I need to walk on, knock on wood, but I feel like that's how it's been the last couple years. We've gotten a whole lot of early.

and then all of a sudden one day it just turns off and, we end up having these real dry summers. So I hope that's not the new norm for us. Yep.

Josh Garroutte: And and like down there where I'm at, those bit, like I said, the elevation change is so drastic with the mountains. Like we would have a storm coming in raining and those mountains would just steered right around our lease.

Yeah. Or it'd split it and go right around it, just how, and then, so it was, we didn't get much rain, but hopefully, like you said, this summer. We get more rain and we're get, like I said, we get a lot early and it seems [00:41:00] like last year the same thing every before that was the same thing a lot real early.

It just Dr. Dry for a long time. .

John Hudspeth: Yeah. Yep. Oh, man. Yep. Crossed my fingers already. , . All right. We're let's see here. I think we got, I got one more quick one, and then I, if you got another quick one. We, I think we got time for about one more each. This is gonna be a little bit off balance of everything else, but, so this year I took up the trad bow and ended up not hunting.

Near as much as I planned on just I've talked about with the baby and everything, I just didn't get to hunt as much. And so when I did get to hunt, I was like I don't necessarily wanna limit myself to the long bow. But still been shooting it, still planning on hunting with it this coming year.

And so this is just a quick t tra bo tit for the people. One thing that I fell into just from my inexperience was I was shooting a lot over the summer in the spring especially once the baby came in July, I fell off a little bit, but I picked it back up before the season was feeling good.

But one thing I cut myself with right before hunting season was, I basically had my one target in the [00:42:00] backyard and I shot at that same target over and over again. I was shooting different distances and everyth. But when you're shooting traditional archery, you don't have that pin or anything.

Like I, I'm gap shooting, so I know I need this much distance between my arrow and the where I'm trying to hit at this distance. I need this much di gap at this distance. But one thing I figured out was when I'm shooting at the same target over and over again, I basically just learned where to aim on that target and not what my actual gap needed to be.

And so I figured that out when I I went before the season start, actually, no, I think it was opening day. I really found this out. I shot at a hog and it was a perfect, like 15 yard shot and ended up shooting low and. So that was a hard knocked lesson. And so when I came home, I started, I got to where every day or two I'd turn my target, like I'd turn it on its side, so it changed that gap.

Or I'd set it on top of another target or something like that. And basically I just you always [00:43:00] have to be changing up that site picture so you learn your actual gap and not just where to aim to hit where you want to.

Josh Garroutte: Yeah. On. So for Tau, what I had to learn, Man, when I'd shoot, get home, I'd shoot on the ground, and then I'd go hunting a tree stand and I would be shooting way off.

If I'm gonna shoot in a stand, I gotta shoot

John Hudspeth: out of a stand. That was definitely, probably part of my problem. I wasn't super high. I was probably only eight to 10 feet, but that was my very first shot shooting from an elevated position. But I was planning for deer. I was planning to be on the ground.

So what I did was I got a couple new box blinds this year, cuz I've talked about it on here. We don't have any trees. Our entire, almost our entire place was clearcut in like 2008, so I have very few trees. I can, yeah. Hang a tree, stand in. So this year got a couple box blinds just so to, gimme a few more options.

Basically what I, I used four by four fours to lift the blind up and then I took old scrap pieces of plywood and built a little box around the bottom so I can get in there with my long bow and just cut a little [00:44:00] bitty hole out the. So I'm that's not super hardcore, traditional archery hunting, but for getting started, it's something No, yeah.

Heck you, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that, that was my plan, but like I said, I ended up not, I think I hunted with it maybe three or four times. But that's definitely next year definitely gonna be a little bit more of a priority. And I was talking to somebody about it and they were like, man, like if you're really gonna dedicate, I think he was the guy from top of Texas Outfitters, Scotty.

He was like, if you're really. Dedicate yourself to the Longbow, you almost have to sell your compound. So that's the only option you have.

Josh Garroutte: You need to practice with it all year. Then just try to get a dough or two right at

John Hudspeth: the first of the season. Yeah, for sure. For sure. That's what I told myself I was gonna do and it just didn't happen.

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Let Bravado Wireless connect you to your family, friends, and business partners all over the world. Bravado, wireless, the power of connect. All right. You got you got one more for us before we get outta here? Yeah, I

Josh Garroutte: got one quick one. Okay. It's on the same topic a little bit. Everybody when season, right before season, they're shooting their bow constantly.

And I do this. I'm a fault of this, is I get to hunting. I'm grinding every day. I take off pretty much all in November. I'm, Boz in my truck, and I try to be, I'm watching you. I'm careful with it, and. too much. Staying back to my truck, nonstop, going, getting up early, getting in late.

And I don't, you don't shoot your bow and you think, ah, my bow's good at, I haven't touched it. I'm watching it. But you need to take a time or make yourself shoot your boat at least once or twice throughout those, especially if you're on like a. [00:46:00] because I took the time and I just try to do this.

I'm not the greatest at taking my time, but I before one hunt I was. , this buck's coming at this yard. I seen him crossing at 40 yards. I'm hunting him tonight at this place. So I went and I shot my boat at 40 yards. Just, I wanted to make practice, just make sure before I went in this evening hunt.

, I had some time off. I didn't, I wasn't hunting all day that day. I can't remember why I wasn't. I think my brother come down and I was helping him out with some stuff. So when I shot my bow, I was shooting about eight inches to the right and what had happened Somehow. my knob that holds it.

My scope type from turning. My little minute knob. You just fine tune knob. Somehow that it barely came loose and my no was turning when I just rubbed something, it would turn it just, I saw shooting eight inches to the right. And if I wouldn't have shot, and I would've got a shot at that buck that night, or even throughout the rest of the season and me not shooting, but I would've been way off, , man, when you're grinding out there and you're going four or 5, 6, 7 days in a row. throwing [00:47:00] your bow in your truck or in a case, even if you're, it's in a case and and I have a case that sets in up on the back of my seat and then I'm real careful with my stuff.

Yeah. And people getting the side-by-side, pool, everything that vibration, anything. So it's good, man. If I can say anything, shoot your bow, at least, couple times throughout the season just to make sure that everything's

John Hudspeth: good to go. Yeah, for sure. One thing that I like to said there is also is just make sure you're taking care of your bow.

When you're, like I said, riding in the truck or whatever. I actually had a good buddy of mine who I won't rat out on here, but , I watched him one time, he set his bow in his backseat and then he threw his backpack on top. And I could tell it was flexing his arrows a little bit and stuff, but I, yeah, I didn't say anything.

I just was trying to mind my own business. And he ended up wounding one a couple days later. And I, I brought it up after that Hey, you need make. Need he, he was somewhat of a newer bow hunter and stuff. He just didn't know any better. Yeah. A lot of times when folks are at home, they have a spot where they hang it or set it and it's usually safe, when you're tra traveling back and forth to the lease or whatever, or Yeah.

In the side by side [00:48:00] or four wheeler, whatever might be, you gotta make sure you're really protecting that thing, man. What I

Josh Garroutte: found, like it's, some guys don't want to carry a case cause it's big and bulking, it's tough getting in and outta their backseat is they make a. , like a case that fits on the back of your seat.

It's not really a case, but it's like a seat cover. It fits on the back of your seat. , and it holds your bow right against the back of your seat. And it keeps your strings and everything nice and tight. Yeah. And I, that's what I have in my truck. That's what my bow stays in 24 7. Most of the time.

So that's when I'm traveling in Candace and stuff. Yeah. But at my lease, I was just landed on top of my backpack. , when I got in and out, getting in and out, I wasn't taking the time to, I was just late and in a hurry. Ready to get back to. Yeah. Tired. Been in the stand all day, eventually the vibration in the truck riding, bouncing, it's gonna loosen stuff up. And it's good to check it. You need to check that stuff. It's important. Yeah. Cost. It could cost you a deer of a

John Hudspeth: lifetime, that's for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Something so simple can really ruin your season quickly if you don't take care of it.

Exactly. . Yep. [00:49:00] Awesome. Cool man. I think that's gonna just about do it for us. But man I really appreciate you coming on and yeah, you had a lot of good ones there that a little bit little bit different, so I enjoyed that. I'm glad we got to do. Oh, man. I'm

Josh Garroutte: glad you called and asked me to come on.

I always enjoy coming

John Hudspeth: on talking to you. Yep, absolutely. Do you want to give yourself a little shout out for social media and stuff? If people like what they're hearing, where they, where can they find you? Yeah, man, I got a little

Josh Garroutte: YouTube channel. I got some videos on there that they might like.

It's defy Outdoors at YouTube and defy Outdoors at Instagram. And you can follow my personal page. Joshua Randall. On Instagram and Facebook.

John Hudspeth: Awesome. Awesome man. As always, this was a great conversation. I really appreciate you coming on, and man, good luck with that that little baby that's coming.

I don't think I'm gonna need it. . Yep. Yep. You can make it through tell Sarah that you'll do a lot up until hunting season, then she might be, pulling some double duty. But yeah. Y'all, y'all figure it out. I did. So y'all get it [00:50:00] figured out. Yeah. Yeah. We will .

Josh Garroutte: Cool man.

You've got me. She's got me building a blind. I got, she's got me building a blind to where we can insulate it and we can take the baby. With a fan

John Hudspeth: or a heater? , Uhhuh. . Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Put put some soundproofing stuff in there too. . Yeah. Yeah. Cool, man. Yeah, like I said, I appreciate it.

Thanks for coming on and until next time I guess we'll talk to you later. Thanks, John. I

Josh Garroutte: appreciate it, man. It's always good.

John Hudspeth: All right folks, that's gonna put a bow on the What did You Learn, series. Thank you guys for checking it out. If y'all enjoyed it, please reach out and let me know because we might do it again next year, or we might do it after Turkey season, something like that.

If you thought it was a dragon, you hated it, also let me know because I won't do it again. Thank you Josh for closing us out. I did think of one more quick reminder I wanted to let you guys know of it is application season. I know Wyoming has already opened, might have already closed even if you're actually applying to hunt.

If you just wanna get a preference point, don't worry. That's later this summer along with [00:51:00] Montana and a few other states. I think Utah's open right now. I think Kansas and Iowa are both in April, along with Oklahoma. Yeah, basically if that's your thing, if that's something you're trying to do, just make sure you're doing your homework.

Set a reminder on your phone because I can tell you from firsthand experience when you forget and you miss that date, it is insanely frustrating because that just means you have to wait a whole nother year and with point creep, maybe even another two years before you can go on that hunt. So yeah, don't forget your preference points and Think that's gonna do it for this episode, guys.

So lucky number one 13. Thanks for sticking it out with me. Thanks for follow along with the series and until next time, I will see you guys right back here on the Oklahoma Outdoors Podcast.[00:52:00]

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