Anything But Deer Hunting with Mark Kenyon

Show Notes

The "Anything But Deer Hunting" series is an attempt for us to continue our love for the outdoors by learning about other outdoor activities in the hunting and fishing space. On this episode, Dan interviews Mark Kenyon of Wired To Hunt and Meateater about his second love, fly fishing.

Mark talks about how he got started fly fishing, what the learning curve, looks like, and how fly fishing is the perfect "ying" to his whitetail "yang". The guys have fun conversation about the similarities between deer hunting and fly fishing, Mark even expresses which one of these activities is easier. This is a fun interview that will give you something to think about out outside of the deer hunting season. Enjoy!

Be sure to check all of the podcasts on the Sportsmen's Empire Podcast network.

Show Transcript

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What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of The Nine Finger Chronicles, and today we kick off a new series with my buddy Mark Kenyon. And Mark's gonna talk about fly fishing. And why are we talking about fly fishing on a deer hunting podcast? It's very simple. [00:01:00] Every year, deer hunting season ends and then later.

In the year deer hunting season starts, so we have this period of time where there is no deer hunting to be had. We can do our food plots and we can go shed hunting and we can do scouting and all that stuff. But there are so many other things to do and this, that's why this series is called anything but deer hunting.

And so I'm gonna. Guests on that do trapping and coon hunting and fly fishing and pheasant hunting. And we're gonna kind of cycle through all these other opportunities and these people are going to give us basically a sales pitch of why. This outdoor activity outside of deer hunting is something that they feel other people should do.

That's what this new series is about. Hopefully you guys enjoy it. Like I said, we kick off this series with my buddy Mark Kenyon of Wired to Hunt. [00:02:00] And his second love really is fly fishing. And he talks about the balance between deer hunting and fly fishing. He talks about how fun fly fishing is.

And so hopefully you guys enjoy that conversation. Before we get into the episode, we gotta do a little horn out, I guess you would say. We gotta pay the bills. So if you're looking for a saddle, do me a favor. Go check out tethered has a full lineup of saddles, saddle hunting, accessories, climbing sticks, saddle platforms, and on top of that, they.

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Anything but deer hunting with Mark Kenon. 3, 2, 1. All right, so I'm here with Mark, Ken and a lot of people know Mark in the whitetail world. And on this episode we're gonna be talking about, this is a series that I've started and really what it is. Everything except Whitetails. [00:06:00] And I'm gonna be talking with guys like Mark.

I'm gonna be talking to guys like Tony Peterson. He loves to fish for small mouth. He loves to do the pheasant thing. I'm gonna talk to some guys who love running koon dogs Turkey hunters, just anything outside of this space that I feel almost like I've pigeonholed myself into the whitetail world and Today we're gonna be talking with you about fly fishing, and so the first thing I want to ask you is when did your fly fishing journey kind of start?

[00:06:35] Mark Kenyon: I, it really started I had a little tiny snippet of an experience with, back when I was a kid. My dad and I did a day lesson kind of class thing when I was, I don't know, maybe. Fifth grade, sixth grade, junior high. Somewhere in that ballpark maybe. So I had a taste of it and I thought it was cool, but I never continued with it.

I think I was intimidated by the knots and there was, there's so many different [00:07:00] things. I remember thinking like, ah, I just can't keep up with it. And I fell in love with bass fishing, tournament bass fishing and all that kind of stuff. So I did that a lot when I was younger. Then for the next like 10, 15 years, I was always seeing fly fishing in the media or in books or, a river runs through it or somewhere I'd see it and I'd be like, oh man, that just looks incredible.

I gotta do that someday. I gotta do it. And then in my adult life that continued, I started going out west and I'd see people out fishing out there and same thing. I'd see them, fishing on a lake when I'm on a backpacking trip and I'm thinking, geez, I should have a fishing pole out here. I should learn to do.

but I kept dragging my feet. But in 2014 maybe, or 15, 20 14 or 15, somewhere in that ballpark, my wife and I started going in renting a cabin in Idaho for the summer and we would spend three or four months living out there. And so that first year I did that, I decide, okay, this is the. , I'm learned to fly fish.

I gotta do this. And I remember I saw that spring [00:08:00] I had seen a video. I this, I can tell you like the exact video, the exact, not the exact time, but like when I watched this one video, it was just for whatever reason, just captured my imagination so much. I thought, all right, I'm gonna do it. I'm buying a fly rod right now.

So I bought the fly rod online at Cabela's, combo set 2014 probably, like I said. And then and then we rented the place in Idaho and I was like, I'm figuring it out. And that spring and summer, I had no idea what I was doing. Hadn't, other than that one day of training 15 years prior, which I remember pretty much none of didn't know what I was doing.

And just started reading stuff, started watching videos, started going to the local fly shops and asking questions, and that's where it began. So less than 10 years ago. Gotcha. 

[00:08:46] Dan Johnson: Were there any, or are there any fly fishing opportunities in Michigan, or do you just spend most of your time out West doing.

[00:08:54] Mark Kenyon: There's actually a ton of opportunities in Michigan. Just not so much where I live in Michigan, [00:09:00] so there's a really, a strong trout fishery across the northern half of the state, probably. Yeah. And along the west side of the coast. So there's some really good fishing down where I'm at. There's just not a lot going on as far.

There's no cold water fishery down here. Yeah. There are some small. in some of these small kind of rivers around here that I've experimented with a little bit. . But unfortunately not a ton here, but I can drive about three hours and get into some pretty good stuff up in the northern part of the state.

But my thing is I, as like for our day job, for hunting that side of things, I travel so much to go do that kind of thing. I'm away from the family so much that I feel bad taking off when I'm not doing those. to go for a day or two or three, just for fun with no work, behind it.

But so for that reason, I don't end up going fly fishing as much when I'm in Michigan, cuz it takes a full day or two to go and do these things while when I'm out west still. Which now, as I have my own cabin out there. We spend four months a year out there. [00:10:00] I can drive, I can walk three, four minutes down the road and be fishing.

Yeah. So I get to fish a to. when we're out there cuz it's all 

[00:10:07] Dan Johnson: around me. Gotcha. What's the learning curve for? Because this isn't some zco push button cast you can buy at Walmart. What's the learning curve for fly fishing? 

[00:10:19] Mark Kenyon: There is a real learning curve but you can go out there and.

Get started and have fun, yeah. With minimal instruction and skills and gear, like you don't have to have it all figured out right away to really have it figured out. It takes years and years. Like I'm approaching a decade of spending a lot of time doing this, and I still feel like I have so much more to learn, and that's, I think, why I love it.

It's like bow hunting in that way. Yeah. You can go so, so deep. There's so much nuance. There's so much detail. There's learning of the landscape and the animal and how you put all these things together. It's really like the water version of bow hunting for mature whitetails.

. It's how I feel fly fishing is. Yeah. And so significant learning curve. There's so much you can [00:11:00] dig into, but at the same time, you can get started and have a good time, with a good friend that can mentor you a little bit in a day on the water. . So it just depends on what you're trying to get out of it.

Yeah. There are certainly people who, book a guided trip with a guide on a river having never fly fish before, and by the end of that day they're casting deeply with a nim fri and catching fish. Yeah. So it's possible to get out there and get doing. I would say the moral of what I'm trying to get here at is, Before I started fly fishing, like I said, there was a lot of years where I looked at it from afar and thought, man, I wanna do that.

I should do that. , but I was intimidated by it. I just thought there was like too much to figure out. Too many knots, too much gear, too many things I just didn't understand. And I regret it. Yeah. I regret having waited so long because this thing is really up my alley. And if I picked it up when I was 15 instead of when I.

25 or whatever it was, I would've been a lot farther along. Yeah. And I would've had a lot of fun [00:12:00] in the 

[00:12:00] Dan Johnson: interim. Oh heck yeah. So we, we've, me and you, we've had a lot of these conversations about the patience level and the attention to detail that you mentioned with Whitetails. I feel like me and you could probably even on a bad hot day, go out and find some decent success.

Trying to locate and kill a whitetail in the worst possible conditions. But my experience, and this isn't outside of fly fishing, but just fishing in general, if the fish aren't biting, they're not biting. So how do you how do you deal with that? 

[00:12:39] Mark Kenyon: It's at least with fly fishing, the way I've been progressing with it, it is, there's different levels of where you can get to.

Yeah. With fishing, where I think I'm learning now, I used to have this feeling like, man, if fish aren't biting, the fish aren't biting. I couldn't figure it out. I'm slowly figuring out many different methods, though, in many different ways, [00:13:00] like fish live in different places at different parts of the day, at different parts in the river.

 At different temperatures, you're gonna feed times or difference, but I'm slowly discovering that there are less and. Times when they're 100% not biting, right? There are ways to catch fish when it's, when the easy thing or when the obvious thing isn't working. There's almost always like a plan B that some fish will still be operating on.

And when that doesn't work, there's usually still a plan C where you can, get something going. So yeah, like in the fly world. The fish biting would be like when there's a hatch on and so there's lots of bugs coming outta the water and the fish are feeding on these flies up on top. Sometimes there just aren't hatches going on.

Yeah. So if the first, like five years of my fly fishing journey, if the fish weren't feeding on top and there weren't visible, hatches happening. I had no idea what to do, and I was in that boat that you're describing where, man, the fish aren't biting. I don't know what to do.

Yeah. I would just flail around and nothing would work, and I'd get really frustrated and then I started learning [00:14:00] 95% of the time actually, The fish aren't feeding on top, so I'm only seeing the five per. I'm thinking that the fish are biting, but it's only 5% of that time, but the fish are actually feeding 95% of the time beneath the surface of the water.

So then I had to realize, okay, how do you catch fish beneath the surface of the water with fly gear? And then I start learning about NIMS and different things like that. And then you start learning there's actually a third kind of thing that fish feed on. So if they're not feeding on nims, you can sometimes induce an aggression response like, a what's the word I'm looking here for, Dan?

It's like a, 

[00:14:33] Dan Johnson: like a challenge or a sort of, 

[00:14:36] Mark Kenyon: Yeah. Like a territorial response. , I'm blanking on the right word I'm trying to think of here, but you can use something called streamers , which are like, in the traditional bass world, like a jerk bait or crank bait or something like that.

where you basically yank and strip and jerk this thing that looks like a fish that invades another fish's space or that, flashes right past them. And even if they're not hungry, even if they're not, biting , they will out of instinct, lash out and [00:15:00] strike at that thing. Yeah.

So you can still catch fish in those kinds of, in, in those kinds of instances. So I guess what I'm getting at is what I've found interesting about fishing. The same thing about, hunting whitetails. . The deeper you get, the more you can learn how to deal with tough circumstance. So yeah, you and I could kill a deer on even the worst condition day and I'm learning, I'm getting better and better about even it being able to figure out how to catch fish on the worst days too.

Yeah, and I think what I love about both hunting and fly fishing is like this never ending learning opportunity. Like I just love, I'm so curious. Yeah, and it's like you're never ending puzzle, that you're slowly putting these pieces together. What's 

[00:15:38] Dan Johnson: easier to get lucky at whitetail hunting or fly? . 

[00:15:42] Mark Kenyon: That's a really good question. I'll say fishing because when you're fishing you get many opportunities. , there might be dozens of fish in front of you and at times there's not at all. But there will be opp there. There will be times when there's lots of fish around and you.[00:16:00] 

you can aimlessly cast and happen to cast in the vicinity of a fish and you might not know anything that's going on, and you might actually get that, hook in a fish. Yeah. With a deer you can get super lucky. I would call it a super lucky situation with a deer would be like, you don't know where you are, you don't know what you're doing, but you walk onto the woods, you sit down by a tree and a deer happens to come walking by.

Right? And so that would be very lucky. But still in that instance, there's some serious stuff that you gotta manage to pull off. being able to get the shot right, make an accurate shot and all that kind of stuff. And yes, people still get lucky in that kind of way, but it's just the gravity of that moment is higher.

And you might have one lucky moment. Wow. You could have, on some days you could have dozens of lucky moments with little fish or something like that. I'm gonna say, I'll say fishing and get luckier. 

[00:16:48] Dan Johnson: Okay. With a, and I know this is different for every state, but in the pinnacle of a whitetail hunter, and I don't know if it's this number anymore, but one [00:17:00] 70 Boone and Crockett.

Like that would be a game-changing whitetail to, to kill. What's the pinnacle for a fly fisherman? Is it like different species? Is it size? . 

[00:17:15] Mark Kenyon: Yeah. So I think it's a combination of both. As I'm getting deeper and deeper into it, I'm realizing that, I started with trout. And I think trout is still like the number one game species For sure, for fly anglers. And so when it comes to trout, size is definitely a thing. And I would say 20 inches like a threshold. We're like, man, that's a big trout. , I think you get to the two foot mark. Maybe that's like a boomer.

Yeah. Like a 24 inch brown trout or something. Or, that's a big trout. Yeah. So I would say, for the trout guys then I think a lot of fly anglers, if they start with trout, they eventually do get this interest in other species. . And I think that's the next thing is if you were to talk about like the pinnacle species now, it's man, catching a tarpin [00:18:00] on a fly.

Yeah. Catching a permit on a fly, like some of these saltwater fish that are, either incredibly difficult to catch on a fly, like just. , insanely picky about what they're willing to fight or what they're willing to bite on. Or in the case of a tarpin, which is, I don't know if you're familiar with what tarpin are, Dan?

, but they're just gigantic. They can be 12 feet long monstrous fish that you would fish for, just like you're fishing for a pike or something. You have to learn not only the difficulty of trying to get a fish like that to take the fly, but then there's this unbelievable challenge of trying to get that fish to the boat.

Yeah. With fly gear, I mean it's very different than like even using like spinning gear or bake casting gear or something. You have to really finesse things and you have to know how to move and how to move them when they're doing different things. How to adjust when the fish jumps outta the water.

You've gotta adjust the tension in the line. So there's all of these D. Variables that you have to figure out how to handle with that kind of fish. Yeah so I would say like there would be that next level. So for [00:19:00] me, it was how do I catch a lot of fish? How do I catch any fish?

Then was how do I catch a lot of fish? And then I was where I'm now with trout is like, how do I catch big fish? I'm still in that phase of my thing with trout. And I'm just starting to dip my toes into the new species stuff. And so I've started doing some saltwater trips and that's been really exciting and addicting.

Yeah. So now my next personal thing is I want to catch a tarpon. Okay. I had some close calls a couple weeks ago. I went down to the Keys in Florida and hooked into some tarpin and it was just amazing. Yeah. But wasn't able to land one. So my next. Mountain to try to climb is to pull that off someday.

[00:19:38] Dan Johnson: Yeah. I got a mutual friend of ours, Bob Pollick, he's been down in the Caribbean somewhere. I don't know if it was The Keys. I think it was another island. And him and his wife would went into the mangrove groves and he was, they were catching tarpin. But the smaller ones, not the big Yeah.

The baby tur. Yeah. And I, I. Talked to him a little bit about that, and he's dude, it is [00:20:00] amazing. And and then, back in the day, I don't know if these shows are on, but there was the, there's like a traveling angler show. It's I think it's called Fly Rod Chronicles or something like that.

[00:20:11] Mark Kenyon: Is that with flip 

[00:20:12] Dan Johnson: pate? It could be, but he, it's a lot of saltwater type fly rod adventures and he's in Belize or he is in, somewhere tarpon or somewhere in Asia. And it's just, I've always looked at fly fishing on a way different level than, let's just say your average whitetail hunting.

I've looked at it as like almost. a fairytale type of sport. And what I mean by that is it's it's definitely doable, but it's just it's a next step evolutionary thing for an outdoorsman, if that makes any 

[00:20:50] Mark Kenyon: sense. Yeah. For it does for sure. And I think it's, it's similar to like, when someone says I want to go from being a hunter, a [00:21:00] gun hunter, to being a bow hunter.

Yeah. And then you get some bow hunter, so you're like, , I'm ready to make it even more difficult. I'm re, I wanna become a traditional archer. Yeah. And so I think it's the same thing with fly fishing is that if you are willing to give up the benefits of traditional fishing tackle and say, man, I want to make it harder to cast, I wanna make it harder to present all lure and I wanna make it harder to land this thing like that.

All of that is a whole lot of challenge. And you have to you have to be willing to. The fishing is less so about just the fish and more so about the experience. Yeah. When you are willing to make those sacrifices. And so I think fly fishing then, like the people who are willing to do all that who want to have a certain experience versus just like the best chance to put a fish in the boat.

You then get, the adventure, you then get the travel, you then get the setting, all these different. Are important to that kind of person. . So I think those things end up going hand in hand. And so it really appeals to me. Yeah. For all those reasons. And it's [00:22:00] just crazy addicting.

And it's different than deer hunting though, in a way, like with deer hunting. There's a lot of thought and strategy that goes into it, but when you're actually out there doing it, you sit down and you sit and wait. And like all of the decisions you made that. , not all of them, but many of the decisions that will impact your success today, let's say, happened a week ago, or two months ago, or six months ago when you planned and you prepped and you scouted and you hung the stands and you did all these things.

A lot of the time though, you're sitting and waiting for a thing to happen and your mind has time to wander and you can just be spaced out or watching whatever. But when you're fly fishing I'll say when you're deer hunting, An all day sit. An all day sit can feel like forever 

[00:22:42] Dan Johnson: jail time.

[00:22:43] Mark Kenyon: Yeah, it can feel like jail time when you fly fish. Everything is happening right now. Every single cast is your entire life. Like everything rests on the next moment, on the next second, on the next decision. As soon as you cast your 2000% focused on that fly, you're watching everything that's happening.

You're [00:23:00] making micro adjustments with your line. You're trying to watch what's happening underneath the water. You bring in that cast. Now you have to make this next perfect presentation. You have to analyze the wind, the water conditions, the surroundings, your. And then you make that next cast, and then you're watching it, you're adjusting it, and you, that can go on for hours and hours and hours and you won't think about anything else.

Yeah. That entire time period there's zero room to think about anything and the time flies like that. Yeah. And so you are just, you're fully consumed and then all of a sudden you're like, where did the day go? . So it's just a very different kind of engagement. Yeah. And it's crazy.

And then the one other thing I'll add is that like from a simple. , like fun standpoint. With deer hunting you have these long periods of waiting and waiting and like once a year or a couple times a year, you have this massive, dopamine avalanche. Yeah. When you finally succeed.

Fly fishing in general, but in my case, with fly fishing, it's instead [00:24:00] like monotony work. Then you finally get a bite or you catch, and then you get this dopamine bump of this rush and then work work. And then another one, and then another one. And so it's like your rewards for the work and time and energy are more frequent, or at least you get like micro awards more often.

So in that kind of way, it's. Pleasurable is the wrong word, but it's, it is I don't know. It's very rewarding. Yeah. In a more man, this is just fun right now. Laid back, 

[00:24:27] Dan Johnson: man. You could crush some beers. You can be a little loud, you can play some music. Can't, I really wouldn't feel comfortable crushing a six pack while I'm hanging off a saddle. You know what I mean? ? 

[00:24:37] Mark Kenyon: Yeah. Yeah. So there's more room for type one fun, in fly fishing, while deer hunting has gotta be a lot more type two fun. 

[00:24:44] Dan Johnson: So I've heard you talk in the past about, you, your life used to be weighted whitetail heavy, and then you level, then you brought in fly fishing and it's there's this balance.

Talk to us about that balance. . 

[00:24:59] Mark Kenyon: [00:25:00] Yeah. It's been a really helpful balance. And it's something though that I felt guilty about for a while. I used to feel like I, I'd heard a few people say if you wanna be good at deer hunting, if you're gonna be a, if you wanna call yourself a deer hunter or a whitetail hunter you can't have any other hobbies.

, you can't put time towards anything else. You aren't allowed to do that or else you will never be good at this. You will never qualify. And so I used to think, okay, I. I can't do this other stuff. I gotta be a hundred percent focused. If I'm not working January, February, March, April, may, June, July, August, I'll never be able to reach my whitetail goals.

And so I spent, an enormous amount of time doing this stuff, and I would place an amor, an enormous pressure on myself to, to succeed, quote unquote, in certain kinds of ways. And all that led to some level of burnout. It led to some level of the fun losing it leaving it et cetera, et c.

But as I've found this other love, it has been this like equal opposite force, which has balanced me out, which has provided me like a [00:26:00] place like I'm a, I'm a obsessive personality. , when I go into something, I go hard. Yeah. And then b like I, I'm just, I wanna constantly be, Pursuing something, hunting and fishing, like hunting and fishing appeals to me in a, just like taps my internal buttons in some kind of way.

And so with fly fishing, I'm able to have that pursuit. I'm able to like stretch and use my obsessive muscles to learn about this new thing and dive into this new thing. But I'm able to do it in like a it, it scratches different itches it. Exercises different parts of. My mind and my muscles and all that kind of stuff.

But there's not the same like expectations tied to it, right? So there's certain goals and expectations tied to my deer hunting, which I love. Still. But on the hunt, on the fishing side, I can now have this other thing that's just for me, it's just purely for fun. It, there's the gravity of it is not nearly that.

Yeah. Which is with, hunting. And I needed that. So I have this other outlet now that I can constantly still. Pressing the buttons I need to press to be like a [00:27:00] happy person, but they're kinda way. Yeah, and not only that, it's I think maybe a better outdoorsman in general. It's also, I think, helped me enjoy hunting more as I've learned different things and released certain pressures as I've gotten into these other sides of the outdoor experience.

And and that I think's put me in a place now where I'm just a lot happier. I'm enjoying these outdoor pursuits in different kinds of ways. I've learned to push off some of those pressures that I used to have. Yeah. And I think because of that, I'm. I'm successful too. 


[00:27:34] Dan Johnson: which is great.

Awesome, man. So here's where you become a salesman for fly fishing. The whole point of this series is to open people up to different opportunities outside of the White Hill world. So Mark Canyon, sell some guy fly. . 

[00:27:55] Mark Kenyon: If you like to hunt, if you like to bow hunt, if you [00:28:00] like to have close, intimate experiences out in nature, if you want to pursue something that's challenging, that pushes you that makes constantly grow as an individual.

And then you also want to have the chance to see a beautiful animal and to tangle with it. Be connected in some kind of way. If you wanna do that more than maybe once a year with your bow tag, pick up fly fishing and you can do it dozens and dozens of times all throughout the year. It will push you to learn new things.

It's just so damn much fun. It's watch a football game and your team scores a touchdown. That's a great little burst of excitement and fun. Imagine if you could just do that again and again. And. and again, and you can constantly challenge yourself to, to better understand how to get that rush and how to, literally connect yourself by a piece of line to another living thing.

But you're doing it in the most improbable way [00:29:00] possible with feathers. Yeah. And string and this tiny little hook. What's in your brain, you have to outsmart this animal and trick it with the most delicate of possible imitations. Super challenging, but at the same time so much fun. And it can take you to beautiful.

[00:29:19] Dan Johnson: Yeah. So real quick then, what do you have any suggestions if someone is looking to, if someone's looking to find out more about fly fishing, any resources that you could point them? 

[00:29:35] Mark Kenyon: Did I lose you 

[00:29:36] Dan Johnson: for a second? If I'll just say this, if there is any resources out there that you would recommend, where should people go look to become a better fly fisherman?

Or just learn about it? . 

[00:29:48] Mark Kenyon: Yeah. So there are some, there's a lot of great resources out there. You can go. For me, one of the best was the Orvis online video courses. , they had a bunch of videos that kind of watch you through how to get started with [00:30:00] casting, how to choose flies, how to read the water.

There are also some instructional books from Orvis as well that I found really good by Tom Rosenbauer. Those would be, the best, like beginner how-to books. I've seen. . There's a little red, it's called a little red book of fly Fishing. Okay. Like Kirk Deed and someone else. That's another good one.

And then on YouTube, there's so many great tutorials now on YouTube for, how to tie certain knots, how to read the wall, how to do anything. Yeah. YouTube's great. Yeah. And then finally I would say though, getting a little time on the water with a real person can help a lot.

I have I'm not very interested in going on guided hunts. That's not something I've tried it now. Yeah. It's just not my cup of tea. But I have found like the value of paying for a day on the water with a guide is, it's very different. Yeah. It's like you get a day long tutorial Gotcha.

With an expert. Gotcha. And that I found very useful because otherwise you're out there trying to figure out on your own and you have no idea is this cast right? Am I reading this right? Is this.[00:31:00] A day with a guide is like a day with a professor who can break down everything you're doing and show you how to do these things in person and that, once you've gone through some of the self-learning through YouTube and these video courses and reading the books and you feel like, okay, I know what I'm doing, but it's still not all the way connecting. A Day with a Guide is definitely a great way to level up if you don't have a friend or mentor who can do 

[00:31:21] Dan Johnson: that for you.

Yeah. Awesome. Mr. Mark Kenon of Wired to Hunt, I really appreciate you taking time to talk about fly fishing today. 

[00:31:29] Mark Kenyon: Yeah, man. You're welcome. 

[00:31:32] Dan Johnson: And there you have it. Huge shout out to Mark. Appreciate your time. Thanks Fort. Taking a listen to this episode. Guys, please go to iTunes. Please leave the five star review.

That helps get the name of this podcast out there and more people can find it. Thank you very much. Huge shout out to tethered wasp HuntStand Vortex Optics. Again, go check out fish and Be safe, have fun, treat people with respect. Be kind. Eat healthy, work out.[00:32:00] Treat yourself to some ice cream.

Give your wife a back massage and hopefully that leads to something else. What else? Good vibes in. Good vibes out, and we'll talk to you next time.