How To Hunt Deer - How To Hunt Small Properties #1

In this episode of the How to Hunt Deer Podcast, hosts Dan Johnson and Jason Tibbado discuss their experiences with shed hunting and the intricacies of hunting small properties. They emphasize the importance of understanding the dynamics of small hunting areas, establishing good relationships with landowners, and navigating permissions and communication with other hunters. The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes and practical advice for hunters looking to maximize their success on smaller plots of land. In this conversation, Dan Johnson and Jason Thibodeau discuss the nuances of hunting small properties, emphasizing the importance of communication with neighbors, understanding property permissions, and the strategic use of trail cameras. They explore the significance of building relationships with landowners and neighbors, the etiquette surrounding trail cameras, and the need for careful scouting and analysis of small hunting areas. The discussion also touches on managing access and pressure, as well as long-term strategies for maximizing hunting opportunities on small properties.

Takeaways:

• Shed hunting can be a rewarding experience, especially in good weather.
• Understanding the layout and characteristics of small properties is crucial for effective hunting.
• Establishing a good relationship with landowners can lead to better hunting opportunities.
• Always clarify the terms of permission with landowners to avoid misunderstandings.
• Communication with other hunters on the same property can prevent conflicts and enhance the hunting experience.
• Shed hunting can provide insights into deer movement and behavior.
• It's important to be respectful and considerate when hunting near others.
• Offering help to landowners can strengthen relationships and secure hunting permissions.
• Knowing the history of a property can inform hunting strategies.
• Being adaptable and open to learning is key to success in hunting smaller properties. Communication is key in hunting relationships.
• Building respect with neighbors enhances hunting experiences.
• Understanding property permissions is crucial for successful hunting.
• Trail camera etiquette can prevent misunderstandings.
• Scouting small properties requires careful analysis of terrain and deer movement.
• Access routes and pressure management are vital for hunting success.
• Establishing long-term relationships with landowners can lead to better hunting opportunities.
• Patience is important when asking for permissions on new properties.
• Meeting neighbors can help in recovering deer that run onto their land.
• More hunters are engaging with small properties than large ones.

Dan Johnson (00:00.078)
One, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the How to Hunt Deer Podcast. I am one of the co-hosts, Dan Johnson, and sitting across from me, and when I say sitting across from me, I mean like hundreds of miles away from me. Mr. Jason Tibbado, Jason dude, what's cracking?

Jason Thibodeau (00:18.037)
Well, it's foggy. It's another Monday and I've had my coffee, but I probably could use a little bit more. So how about you?

Dan Johnson (00:24.908)
Yeah, same. It's not foggy where I'm at, but I walked outside and I'm, you know, it's just, it's hoodie weather. It's like mid forties and whatever, whatever the case is out here. And, actually. I want to be us with you a little bit before we get into today's topic. Okay. And I got the itch to go shed hunting today. That's how nice it is outside right now. Right. And I got bucks on camera. Some are still packing some.

Jason Thibodeau (00:31.19)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (00:41.207)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (00:54.156)
have dropped already and my stepdad, went on a little side by side ride, what was it, three or four days ago and found two shed antlers. And so it's making me wanna get out there and start scooping but I'm too damn busy man. I want to though, I want to.

Jason Thibodeau (01:06.954)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (01:15.378)
So I had to substitute on Friday and the school I was at is about 20, 25 minutes away from one of my properties. So I went out and I was, I was probably out for an hour, just kind of doing the outskirts of the property and I didn't find anything. And then, you know, obviously lo and behold, I did get pictures of the deer that are still holding antlers. I haven't, I don't think on any of my cameras, I don't have any bucks that have dropped yet, but that doesn't mean none in the area have cause I know the

Dan Johnson (01:31.501)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (01:42.679)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (01:45.272)
He sent me a couple pictures, so

Dan Johnson (01:47.97)
Yeah, and this is pretty standard procedure for some of the farms that I hunt, right? I got one farm where all my cell cameras are dead and I'm not getting any intel from that farm. It's what I call the four hour farm. It's about four hours away from where I live. And then my main farm that I've hunted the longest, I don't have, which is typical this time of year. Post shotgun season, all, just, the entire farm changes.

Jason Thibodeau (02:03.606)
Mm.

Dan Johnson (02:17.433)
and there's no shed antlers. There's no shed antlers on this farm. All of the deer kind of leave and then they come back during green up, they start coming back in during the turkey season or whatever. But man, I don't know why I was thinking about shed antlers when I was walking down to take my kids to the school bus, but the snow is off, all the grass in the area is flat. And you know, like when you're walking those buffer strips or whatever,

Jason Thibodeau (02:20.339)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (02:43.805)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Dan Johnson (02:46.717)
and the snow has finally melted and there's just this perfect shed antler sitting on this flat grass just waiting to be found.

Jason Thibodeau (02:53.595)
Yeah, no, I agree. I actually in like these days, these drizzly, foggy, wet days, actually they're probably my favorite to shed hunt in. So yeah, yeah, I've got one that's like 83 or 84 inches. So pretty good, pretty, pretty good. Yeah, it's a I think it's a six point.

Dan Johnson (03:02.644)
they stick out like a sore thumb, dude. They stick out so well. What's the biggest shed you've ever found?

Dan Johnson (03:13.333)
Yeah, man, that's gigantic.

Jason Thibodeau (03:19.07)
six-point side, but I've got a match set that I found with my son and that that deer would have been in the mid 80s. So that was a pretty cool find.

Dan Johnson (03:29.101)
Yeah, I have, believe it or not, my first shed I ever found was to a buck that I found the shed antler to the next year. the first one I ever found, I think this is like a low 60 inch shed. The next year, I'm looking at it right now, it's hanging on my wall, it's like 74 plus inch. That's the biggest shed that I've found. And then I got a match set to a...

Jason Thibodeau (03:45.834)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (03:51.955)
Okay, yeah.

Dan Johnson (03:57.194)
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11 pointer hanging up above my window right here that probably goes low 150s and that's the biggest match set that I've ever found. And they were, the cool thing about that, walked into a, you know how sometimes there's a thick ice on the rivers and then it floods and it just picks all the ice up and then.

Jason Thibodeau (04:07.609)
huh.

Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (04:19.381)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (04:25.921)
brings it inland, sets it down, and then it recedes. And so there was, I was shed hunting a standing cornfield in this like flooded timber that had receded and there was like eight inch chunks of ice everywhere in this, in this timber. And then it had flattened everything out. And so I went in there one day and I found three absolute giant sheds that were just laying.

perfectly there for people to find them and To this day. It's one of the best like the the best day as far as antler size I think I found four antlers that day all all pretty big but the most antlers that I've ever found at one time was a 45 minute hike around around an 80 acre cornfield where I just was Scrubbing buffer strips and walking the edge. I found I think it was four

Jason Thibodeau (04:56.96)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (05:24.237)
It was crazy. Yeah. Couple match sets in there. Nothing gigantic. One good antler to a buck that I killed the next year. But long story short, it was, I don't know. I used to love shed hunting a lot, but now it's just, I put my time other places.

Jason Thibodeau (05:26.644)
Wow, okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (05:37.536)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (05:48.436)
Yeah, so how many shed antlers have you found from deer that you eventually harvested?

Dan Johnson (05:55.57)
let's see here. One. Yep. So have I, have I found antlers and chased deer? Yes, I have. But have I ever found an antler then killed a deer the next year or the following year? Only one time, which is a little bit surprising as much time as I used to spend shed hunting and I don't know, hunting back in the day. yeah. Yep. Unless.

Jason Thibodeau (05:58.889)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (06:05.556)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (06:13.365)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (06:18.646)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (06:22.164)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (06:23.829)
Unless I have some little dink shed. I have all my big stuff hanging on this wire in my office. And then I have a pile of smaller stuff right there that maybe it could, you know, like a two year old buck that I found and then maybe two or three years later I shot the actual deer. But you know, the antlers are so small and there's no character to them. So I don't know. Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (06:36.692)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (06:42.934)
Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (06:47.656)
Yeah, yeah. yeah, so shedhunting. What? Yeah.

Dan Johnson (06:54.092)
What are we? Yeah, shed hunting. What I think I think let's get into the topic today. And you brought this up. And I think this is a great idea. We're going to have work today is part one of a series that I think we're going to title something along the lines of like how to hunt small properties. Right. And this is going to be a three week series that this is your idea, man. I I I hunt some properties that are fairly small. And and I think

But I think I'm blessed with the amount of acreage that I have to hunt. I actually think that this is going to really help out a lot of people because I think there's more people that hunt small acres, small acreages than hunt big hundred plus type of farms, right? And so this is today's episode one. And let me ask you this question. I think we need to define some parameters. What?

Jason Thibodeau (07:43.221)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (07:52.928)
in your opinion across most most of north america especially hunting white tail deer is considered small acres anything under what

Jason Thibodeau (08:04.95)
I mean for me personally, I think it's anything under the 40 and 50 acre.

mark, you know, it would probably classify as, you know, small acreage. I also feel like sometimes it get kind of overlooked or looped into like a big property is these fence lines. You know, a lot of times you'll get permission for a property, but it's literally just a cornfield or a bean field. But you can hunt the fence lines. Well, there's you know how that works. If it's a hundred acre cornfield and you literally are just hunting the fence lines, you're not hunting a hundred acres, really.

Dan Johnson (08:37.826)
Right, Yeah, so and that's that topic that you hear some guys talk about, then they say, well, this farm hunts big or this farm hunts small. Like you could have 20 acres of all timber and that could hunt pretty big. Or you could have 20 acres of a cornfield and three trees in a a buffer strip. That's the only place you could put a stand or a blind. And that that property is going to hunt really small with way less options. So.

Jason Thibodeau (08:47.35)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (08:52.32)
Alright.

Jason Thibodeau (09:06.036)
Right.

Dan Johnson (09:06.829)
We're gonna talk a little bit about some of these things going into this. But I think what I'm gonna do, this is your pony on this one this week. So let's talk about episode one. And I think you've labeled it as identifying possibilities. Okay, so let's break down what do you mean by identifying possibilities.

Jason Thibodeau (09:30.935)
So for me, when I look at these small properties, that's kind how I started out was hunting fence lines and stuff. So I had to learn how to identify what was actually huntable. First off, where.

Dan Johnson (09:37.549)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (09:44.113)
everything light in from there going forward. So I guess I'll start with number one. I kind of put it as how long do you have permission for? You know, when we get these permissions for properties, we don't always know if we're going to be able to hunt it the following year or if this is, you know, just a one and done type deal. So I think, you know, learning that from the get go kind of sets you up for the future as far as learning as much about that property as you can.

Dan Johnson (09:52.855)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (10:09.931)
Yeah. And so let's let's talk about that just for a second. And that kind of that's going to flood into a couple more bullet points that you have here. And how long? Right. This is something that a lot of people assume that they they knock on somebody's door. They get permission. And then some people think that that means they have permission for eternity after that for all species and things like that. I can tell you right now.

that that is not the case. That is not the case. I had to start on my main farm that I have now with turkey hunting. And I got permission to turkey hunt, which led to shed hunting, which then the following year led to deer hunting, archery only deer hunting. And I have yet to really gun hunt that property during the shotgun seasons. I don't think I ever have actually. And so, and so it actually took me three years.

or well, two years and on the third year I got permission for it to actually deer hunt the property. And basically it was an interview for me to get to know the landowner, prove myself, and then they gave me free rein on the farm.

Jason Thibodeau (11:16.884)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (11:23.542)
All

And I think that's the biggest thing. mean, we're seeing, you we've been seeing it over the years. You know, there's a lot of paid to hunt, you know, paid rent type properties. And so when you actually do get that one property that a landowner says, yep, you can hunt my property. You always have to err on the side of caution with how many other people did they already give permission to? What all permission do you have? You know, I mean, can you can you ha all year long, meaning all the species? Can you shed hunt and can you use a gun and or a bow? You know,

There's so many things that tie into that. So I've learned the hard way that I got permission and then all of a sudden I go out to hunt and there's three other people hunting these fence lines, you know, or I go to the next year and I learned that you need to ask that next year again. And I generally always wait till the end of hunting season. And then I go and ask the landowner again for that following fall or that next fall, you know, if I have permission again. And sometimes it doesn't work that way. Sometimes they're,

Dan Johnson (11:56.567)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (12:05.665)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (12:24.156)
logging something out or sometimes they're well we decided that you know we're gonna let family hunt it this year and it's happened a lot so you got to make sure that you double check that and technically if a lot of states require that you have a permission slip from the landowner also.

Dan Johnson (12:41.326)
Yeah, yeah, and that's it's crazy because I've run into just about every scenario that you can think of right where I've gotten permission to hunt a farm and then Family draws an Iowa tag and they're like well this year you're not gonna hunt it because we got family that's gonna come in I've been kicked off farms before because Someone didn't feel comfortable with me hunting on it after I've hunted it a year

I've had you know, I've got permission on it I killed a deer and then I showed it to the landowner the landowner told his buddy his buddy said can I hunt it and then his buddy got me kicked off of the farm like you name you name the scenario I've I've gained permission and or have lost permission in several different ways on farms for just about all types of all types of Hunting my favorite one was

I shot a buck. It wasn't huge. I'm driving out of the farm and I ended up the farmer was there and he goes, holy cow. I didn't know that there was anything that big out here. And then so the net I came back to shed hunt it in the spring and he goes, no, I'm going to start hunting it again. I'm to start being hunting serious again. I'm like, okay, bud, you know, like I can't like I, what am I going to do? Argue with him? And he's just like, and he, he found out how big a deer were on his property.

Jason Thibodeau (13:59.863)
Great.

Jason Thibodeau (14:06.098)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (14:11.269)
And even though in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't huge. He just found out it was like, well, if this guy came in and shot it, all I got to do is put a little bit more work into it. He started running trail cameras and end up finding some success. And long story short, the property got sold when he ended up retiring from farming. But. You know, I've I've I've gained and lost farms in each and every way.

Jason Thibodeau (14:35.701)
Yeah, I was same. And I think the big thing for me that I learned early too was, you know, I want to get people involved in the hunting and I want people to enjoy it. You know, but you also you have to tread lightly as far as, you know, giving away your spots and saying, yeah, I've, you know, shot two, three, four deer over there in the last couple of years and stuff, because pretty soon people start to backdory and you lose those permissions. You know, so establishing a good relationship with these landowners is probably first and foremost the key.

Dan Johnson (14:51.565)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (15:05.419)
The most important thing, yep, the most important thing. I've done that by just staying in communication with them. I've done that through showing them what I've, know, turkey hunting, know, showing them what we kill, showing pictures, you know, talking to them. Not just like, hey, can I have permission? Hey, this, but it's just, if you see them out on the farm, man, I can't tell you.

how much work I've actually done on a couple of these farms. I've installed satellite dishes, I've fixed fences, I've fixed gates, I've herded cattle off the roads back into the pastures. I've done all of these things which I think a person should do if you're hunting a property for free. That's just my opinion.

Jason Thibodeau (15:38.518)
Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (15:49.747)
Yeah, absolutely. Yep, I was going to say if this is not a pay per play,

property. mean, definitely be offering to fix fences or, you know, one of the properties I had, used to, you know, rough cut mow for them and stuff and fix the fences and stuff for them and cut trees down that needed to be cut down if they're on fences and stuff. There's always something that you can offer to help. I've had, you know, little old ladies need help carrying their groceries into their house, you know, when you you stop by. It's just anything, you know, as far as that appreciation level goes. And don't be afraid, you know, at the end of the year, if you

Dan Johnson (16:12.425)
Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (16:24.714)
shot something don't take them a package of deer meat of some sort jerky so

Dan Johnson (16:29.037)
100%. 100%. I actually just got a big shipment from the locker this past week and I'm gonna be taking some breakfast sausage down to this lady and buttering her up a little bit more and making sure she knows that I appreciate that I'm able to hunt their property. yep.

Jason Thibodeau (16:50.487)
Right, So I'd say, I mean, as long as you get your permission, find out what you have the permission for exactly. If it's just for deer hunting in the fall with a bow, make sure you get it in writing if you can. And then once I start to break down from there, how far of a drive is this property for you? Is this one of multiple properties or is this your only property you have to hunt?

Dan Johnson (17:16.214)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (17:16.342)
And once you once you decide that, then you'll know how much time you're going to be able to put into scouting and everything. I always always.

end up asking the landowner too or any neighboring properties once I get to meet them. Is there any knowledge of hunting on this property and what kind of deer have been harvested and what kind of expectations should I have going into this property for that next fall? With that, I also like to tie into the neighboring properties. What are they like and are they hunted?

Dan Johnson (17:40.812)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (17:49.742)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. This is a great point because there are times and I've like when I first started this whole journey, right, there's a couple unwritten rules. OK, let's say me and you are buddies and we hunt in the same area. We're from the same town and you hunt a farm. And then I try to go get permission to hunt that farm without you knowing.

Jason Thibodeau (18:15.904)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (18:16.107)
Right? That's, that's a, a, an offense in my book. Like we're not trying to step on our buddy's properties, but if we did not know each other and I went and got permission to hunt on the property, well, I got permission to hunt that might upset you or vice versa, but I got permission to hunt. now it becomes a, like I've been in a scenario where I've gotten permission to hunt a farm. The other hunter bitch to the,

Jason Thibodeau (18:30.518)
All right.

Dan Johnson (18:44.558)
bitched to the farmer about it and then I got removed before I could even hunt it, right? Or there's not enough space for this or whatever and whatever the case is. But then I've also got permission to hunt and I started communicating with the other hunters. The farmer never cared. They're like, I don't give a shit, just kill them because they're destroying my corn or they didn't care about hunting.

Jason Thibodeau (18:49.085)
Alright.

Dan Johnson (19:09.525)
And so I had to have open lines of communication or I tried to have open lines of communication with the other hunters that were on this farm. And two things happen in that engagement. that is number one, they do talk to you and maybe it's not right away. Maybe it takes a couple seasons. They talk to you. They're friendly with you. Eventually you start sharing information about deer, about movement, about broken roads or fences or the landowner.

And then there's times where the other person just doesn't want to communicate with you. They don't like it that you're there, but there's nothing that they can do it because I got permission to hunt. So they just stay or what they you keep your distance. You don't communicate. I feel it's always better to communicate than not to communicate, but I'm OK with not communicating with someone if they don't if they don't want to. I'm not going to force it.

Jason Thibodeau (20:01.162)
Yeah, I- I just-

to me if I see somebody out on a neighboring property, I'm going to go introduce myself to them first off. You know, and if it happens to be the same property and somebody got permission on it, I'm going to do the same thing. And if it does become one of those things where it's, you know, you don't have a relationship, well, that's it is what it is to a simple, a simple thing is, mean, anymore. I you can send somebody a text message like, Hey, I'm going to be there Tuesday evening. And that's, plan on hunting then, you know, even if they don't communicate with you, maybe you can

still throw that out there to them because it's not going to ruin their hunt then or vice versa. And then there becomes a level of respect for each other, at least. It doesn't mean that you have to share trail camera pictures and you have to help your buddy or help this guy, you know, gut a deer and drag it out or anything. offering those things are probably a good thing as far as moving forward. If you're going to be hunting in the same area or the same property.

Dan Johnson (20:59.202)
Right. And that's just a simple text message or phone call. And I'll tell you this right now. There wasn't too much of communication on on turkey season. Right. And so during the youth turkey season, these guys would come down and then they would prepare for their next for their turkey season that they had on the farm. Well, I started taking my kids to this farm to turkey hunt and we really never communicated. And so they ended up showing up while we were chasing some toms.

And they kind of ruined their hunt, but they didn't know that we were there. so long story short, we ended up like we ended up communicating and now they know, OK, well, he's going to be here during youth season. We're going to either do our habitat stuff and trail camera stuff the weekend before or the weekend after. And so now it's just a matter of communicating with each other. And everybody's cool. Everybody's cool with it. Yep. So.

Jason Thibodeau (21:55.681)
Yep. Yeah. And I think that's what I've seen. I mean, I've seen some people that are just extremely jealous of the permission that you got, you know, so they don't talk to you or whatever. And there's that side of things. But then I've seen some guys that I've made friends with and we still communicate, even if I don't even hunt those properties or they don't anymore. So it's I think the one thing is just respect each other and, you know, try to enjoy it with each other as much as you can. And not everybody's going to be on the same page as you. And that's you're going to have to understand that, too. So.

Dan Johnson (22:13.548)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (22:25.163)
Yeah, and these things that we're talking about right now aren't necessarily small property related. This is all property related, right? But it's something that we definitely need to know for, you know, moving forward on any permission piece that we have. Obviously, if you are paying to lease property or hunt it for a week or whatever the case is, there's going to be additional terms and conditions that you're going to be able to negotiate. And basically like, hey, dude,

Jason Thibodeau (22:32.062)
Right, right.

Dan Johnson (22:54.262)
I don't want, if I'm paying for this, I don't want anybody on this piece. I don't want anybody turkey hunting it. don't want, you know, I'm paying for one year worth of hunting rights on this farm. And so, yeah, and so there's that.

Jason Thibodeau (23:05.749)
Right.

Well, and I think that we can relate this back to the story of the deer that I shot and found this year. You know, I had no relationship with this neighboring property. I had never met this guy. And then I go and meet him. He's a super nice guy. He just did things differently than I would have. But not saying that we're never going to have a relationship again, because matter of fact, the other day I get a text message from him. But I was respectful for it, for what he allowed me to do. And I was respecting him and his property.

Dan Johnson (23:17.133)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (23:38.232)
And I think that's the key to it. You know, as long as you respect it, the thing that I would say about these small properties is maybe go ahead and get to know those neighbors, find out who they are, because the chances of a deer running off of your small property onto something after it's been shot are very high.

Dan Johnson (23:57.154)
very great, especially if it's in a not necessarily a residential area, but a, you know, like out, not rural, but in the big cities, you know, the suburb type settings where you're talking about a five, 10, 15 acre property or like hobby farm or something like that. It's important to know who your neighbors are.

Jason Thibodeau (24:09.663)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (24:19.06)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, because so many times those deer will run off and you don't have permission and then they end up having to lay, you know, just because of that, you know, you didn't get permission ahead of time. sometimes accessing that permission for the property or hunting, that's great. But maybe you need to at least put your phone number out there or find their phone numbers so that way you're in contact with them. Like I am hunting here. And if something does happen, I just want to know that I got permission to go recover my deer.

Dan Johnson (24:46.817)
Right, absolutely, absolutely. All right, what's the next one?

Jason Thibodeau (24:50.135)
So once I once I figure out what the neighboring properties like and stuff I start to kind of just break it down now You know, can I use trail cameras on this property? I mean that's that's first and foremost gonna help me a lot as far as like how far this property is from my house and how far I have to travel because if I can use cameras, especially Cell cameras nowadays if it's legal in my state, you know I want to set them up and I want to let them start scouting for me when I'm not there Find out the other logistic. Go ahead

Dan Johnson (25:16.097)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (25:19.851)
I was just going to say, here's the thing about trail cameras.

It's we are in a weird time with trail cameras right now, especially with people who don't understand deer hunting It would probably be a good idea, especially on a small farm Maybe let's say the guys out there working. I think it's important for them to know that they like if you're gonna if if you ask for permission and you ask to put trail cameras up

you should also identify that they are in fact cell cameras and there will be pictures of activity sent to you on your phone. And so I don't know why I'm thinking about this, but some farmer or guy out there or maybe it's a small property and his wife likes to sunbathe naked, right? There's a chance, you know what I'm thinking about?

Jason Thibodeau (26:15.698)
Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (26:19.329)
What I'm talking about here, I know those are extreme cases, but still, guys out there smoking a fat joint and it gets sent to you and you're like, my God, that's a principle of a school or something. know, like something crazy, something crazy. I don't know. think you should identify those and let them know the technology and what it's going to be used for.

Jason Thibodeau (26:21.846)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (26:29.266)
right yeah yeah yeah well it

Jason Thibodeau (26:40.213)
Well, and that's why I say, I mean, these are all big things to me as far as like once I get permission on these properties, I want to make sure I have permission to do this permission for this, you know, before I actually even step foot on the property. I mean, because like one of the next thing they talk about is can you plant food plots on this property? You know, once you start to realize all the things you can or cannot do on these properties, that's going to tell you how much you're going to be able to get out of that property and how much weight you should put into it.

Dan Johnson (27:08.011)
Yeah. Yeah. Here's one thing I'm going to add on to that food plot thing. OK. I would say do not bite off more than you can chew right away, especially on permission. Right. Here's what here's what I would do. I would say this is me personally, because you come into a new relationship with a farmer or a landowner or.

whether it's a 10 acre hobby farm where the guy's also running goats or whatever, and he's got four acres of timber in the back that you are interested in hunting. And you're saying things like, can I put up trail cameras? Can I, you know, spray plant food plots? Can I do all these things? That's a big undertaking for someone to allow you to do that to their property on year one, unless you already know them, right? And you have a relationship with them.

Jason Thibodeau (27:58.496)
Right.

Dan Johnson (28:02.669)
If it's a brand new relationship and you're asking to do all these things, I would chill year one and then talk to them. Like maybe it's summertime and you're like, hey, come back here with me and walk. you're like, dude, it would be awesome if I could turn this little grass patch into a food plot. And they're like, well, what does that entail? And then you talk to them about that, right? I think that just pace yourself is what I'm getting at.

Jason Thibodeau (28:08.341)
Great.

Jason Thibodeau (28:23.145)
Yup. Yup.

Jason Thibodeau (28:27.23)
Yeah, well, and I think that's why, like, if we go back to one of the first things I said, you know, is how long do you have permission on this property? Is this your first year, you know, or is this your fifth year, you know, and then knowing where to tread after that, you know? So, I mean, even once you have the permission on these small properties, doesn't mean it's you know, slam dunk that you're going to be able to have it for the entire season. You're going to be able to do the food plots and do the cameras or anything. It might literally be, hey, Jason, you can hunt Saturday evenings, you know,

Dan Johnson (28:33.975)
rate.

Dan Johnson (28:39.916)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (28:57.167)
during bow season and that's it that might be all you have but hey it's another piece of property you can hunt so you know once i get all those permission things knocked out of the way then i start to actually dissect the property you know as far as are there food and water sources on it and what is the terrain like

Dan Johnson (29:16.149)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think the cool thing there is that can also be reverse engineered to ask the question. Maybe you're already on a farm down the road and you identify some type of deer movement and then you're like, Jesus, man, I wish I could gain access to this five acres right here because it has a pond or because a buffer stripper, a draw goes through it. And then that will identify

Jason Thibodeau (29:38.933)
Right.

Dan Johnson (29:46.426)
why you want to go there, but then you get permission and then you put your boots on the ground as far as scouting is concerned.

Jason Thibodeau (29:54.111)
Right.

Yeah, no, and I could have wrote these pretty much almost anyway. I think the biggest thing is, you know, if you're not paying for this property and this is a permission property, I think I like to just check off these things on my list first, you know, and say, OK, hey, I've got the permission I need. I know what I can do for what amount of time it is. I know what weapon or whatever I can use. And now, hey, now I can set foot on this property. Now I can actually get boots on the ground and take it, take in all the deer movement.

Dan Johnson (30:08.865)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (30:24.632)
or activity that I can find and then break it down from there as far as so many other things, know, wind access and, you know, is this a mobile, you know, I'm going to run and gun every time I'm there or I'm going to put up ladder stands or ground blinds. know, you can break it down so many times, so many ways after that. But I think just the initial thing, get your permission out of the way, figure out what it is that you're going to be able to hunt. I because it might be one of those properties I've got a couple that

Dan Johnson (30:27.169)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (30:54.515)
I just recently picked up that I can only shed hunt on them. Well, I'm establishing this relationship and I'm going into year two and three on some of them. And it's like slowly working into and then my next question is going to be, is can I spring turkey hunt? You know, and if you don't allow guns on your property, I'll only use a bow and then, hey, can I take my my daughter hunting on this property? You know, slowly work into it. There's there's easier ways to go about it than just, you know, saying, yeah, I want to put up cell cameras and I'll

Dan Johnson (31:16.925)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (31:24.428)
to plant food plots.

Dan Johnson (31:26.155)
Yeah, yeah, I'm only looking for giant whitetails, right? And that's all I care about is giant antler whitetails. And I'm only here because I saw a giant deer. Like I would tread lightly on some of those topics, especially for non-hunters, because that might freak them out. And you're some kind of I'll do whatever it takes type of guy. And I don't think that's a good look. No.

Jason Thibodeau (31:29.192)
Right, that's all. That's Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (31:45.162)
Yep.

No, no, it doesn't do any service for yourself. That's the biggest thing. then then then not only that, know, neighbors talk, you know, so I mean, once you go at once you once you talk to one neighbor, then pretty soon they're talking to the other one at the coffee shop or whatever. So you might have ruined permission for multiple properties, not just one.

Dan Johnson (31:57.597)
yeah.

Dan Johnson (32:09.469)
100%. 100%. Yeah, that's, I mean, these are good places to start. Now, on a smaller, we're gonna, we're obviously gonna get into access and pressure and more of the strategy leading up. But I think I wanna touch base on this right now to elaborate what we've already talked about as far as postseason scouting, right?

Jason Thibodeau (32:33.845)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (32:35.883)
What, when you do get this permission, right? Or if you're only limited to X amount of time on the farm, specific times, what are some other things that you're looking for in order to, I guess, put your tree stand or your ground blind in the right position to get in shooting range or whatever from the bare basics, from the scouting perspective of it.

Jason Thibodeau (33:03.99)
So from the scouting perspective of it, mean, obviously for me personally, right now is the time that I want to be knocking on doors and I want to try to get that permission because I've been watching these deer, whether it's from the road or whether it's from a neighboring property that I have permission to hunt on. And so I kind of already had it broke down where I'm seeing deer movement or an area I'd like to hunt, say like this pond that you mentioned, you know, that's where I start. And then once I actually am on the property and I have permission, then I start to

look at, okay, well, it's postseason scouting. So is there areas that I can identify for betting? Is there areas that, this is just a travel corridor or this is just a fence line? Well, then I start to break down like the fence line. Is there gaps in the fence line? Is there CRP behind me? Is there food out in front of me? Is there water in front of me? Is there a creek crossing that, you know, maybe they tuck down in, but then they come back up out of, and then I can set up on the downwind side of it.

different things like that are probably the most important thing when, especially in a fence line. Cause the fence line is going to be, you could set up today and you're going to be 200 yards too far north. You know, and tomorrow you might move the other way. And what you missed was that, that break in the fence or you missed that one buffer strip that, that runs perpendicular to your fence line that brings that the deer into that fence line. You know, and on a small track dissecting as far as, you

Dan Johnson (34:27.714)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (34:33.673)
How much timber is there if there is timber on this property? Cause a lot of these properties I'm talking about, mean, there's not even but a 30 yard, 40 yard strip of timber, you know, so you can shoot from one side to the other with a bow, you know, so knowing how to put yourself into that position to where, okay, my shot's going to be 20 yards versus it's going to be 40 yards. That's where you have to get a little more in depth with where is that Creek? Where is that fence? Where are the beds?

And then I would say probably, I mean, after you get that permission and after you've dissected the foods and everything, then terrain starts to come into play because you, know, on a small property, you only have so much to work with. So it, I mean, it kind of is what it is. It's either flat, it's hilly, or it's, you know, a mixture, but you can't always put the perfect tree in the perfect spot. If that makes sense. No.

Dan Johnson (35:28.833)
Right. Yeah, you're not going to get that man. And I think the cool thing about a small property is it allows you to be really creative with your access routes, with wind directions and stuff. mean, I know guys who hunt out of barns, who've hunted out of barns before, and they they had a, I don't know, deer come into some pasture or overgrown pasture or whatever it is and just literally cutting a corner of it. They've identified walking through

Jason Thibodeau (35:42.89)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (35:58.489)
Trail on a corner of a property that was Man, I want to say like 50 yards The deer were walking in a straight line 50 yards in this property the guy identified it he got in a barn and he He would shoot these deer out of a he wasn't like a big antler hunter guy But he was you know, he was just a regular bow hunter and he was telling me this story and I was like dude That's pretty cool that you identified that but that's sometimes all it takes man, especially if you're

Jason Thibodeau (36:05.11)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (36:23.958)
Right. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (36:26.889)
if it's close to your home and it's limited opportunities.

Jason Thibodeau (36:30.774)
Yep.

Well, and the thing about a small property, is versus say like big timber or anything is it's pretty much going to do a lot of the homework for you. I mean, once you start to see once you start to see where the deer travel and how they travel there, there's a reason they use it that way, whether it's the wind or whether it's the terrain or whether it's the edge that's there that they use. You know, so a lot of that you can break it down pretty quickly once you start to identify the food, the bed and the wind. So what I like to do, I guess, is

Dan Johnson (36:39.433)
Exactly.

Jason Thibodeau (37:01.36)
Dive in. Don't be afraid to set up multiple stands if you can or be mobile even that first year. And you're going to strike out a couple of times, you know, but you're also going to be able to realize, can I overhunt this property or can I hunt this property as much as I want?

Dan Johnson (37:15.277)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because depending on the location, is it an active farm? Is it just a small piece? Is it a morning, you know, is it a morning farm? Do I have to walk through a big field and spook all the deer for a morning hunt? Or is it an afternoon farm and vice versa, whatever the whatever the case is. All that will be identified as you get into actually hunting it. So. Yeah, one thing that popped into my head real quick.

Jason Thibodeau (37:43.764)
Great. Yep.

Dan Johnson (37:48.922)
is, and this kind of goes back to access. I have hunted on farms where the farmer wanted me to park in a specific spot all the time. He goes, I don't care when you come, you can hunt as much as you want, but I want, if you're here, I want your truck here. So I know you're here. You don't need to call me or text me, but I want to know that if you're on my property, I want you to park right here by this barn. So when I step outside, I can see your truck.

Jason Thibodeau (38:09.568)
Right.

Dan Johnson (38:18.293)
and I know that it's you. And I'm like, okay, right? I've had that happen a couple of times. Sometimes that's awesome because I just have to walk a little ways, right? And I don't, it's a great place to park. I know I'm not going to run up his fields. And then there's other times where that sucks because now I have to walk a mile or, you know, whatever the case is through mud, you know, I have to, whatever the case is, it sucks, but it's still opportunity. And I think dude,

Jason Thibodeau (38:29.471)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (38:40.106)
Yep. Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (38:46.079)
Right.

Dan Johnson (38:47.97)
Trust me, today, hunting on a piece of permission free property, you take what you can get, man, because that is, they're not, it's not as, there's not those options anymore.

Jason Thibodeau (39:01.558)
Yeah, no, there isn't. And I think that's where it goes back to. mean, even like you were saying, you know, don't be too intrusive with the cell cameras or the food plots or anything, you know, but try to get a feel for if you can't ask it initially, like how long do I have permission for this property? You know, find out who else is on this property, you know, because then you can, hey, maybe have permission for five different properties and you can evaluate your properties that way. Like this is number five because I can really only hone it on Tuesday through Thursday.

Dan Johnson (39:07.895)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (39:14.669)
you

Jason Thibodeau (39:31.605)
day of during the week in the afternoons or in the mornings just because it gets pressured outside of that. know so be respectful I mean like you're saying you know parking I've had multiple properties that I could only park in one spot they either wanted to know who was there they wanted to be able to see it from their house or so on and so forth and that's fine you know be respectful about it always always make sure that you don't run up their fields you stay out of the field entrances and you shut whatever gates you need to shut

Dan Johnson (39:58.018)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (40:01.378)
But there's a lot that goes with the small property. But like you said, if you can get permission, take it.

Dan Johnson (40:08.139)
Yep, absolutely, absolutely. Okay, what else do we need to talk about for this particular episode about hunting small properties?

Jason Thibodeau (40:22.102)
Well, I think when it comes down to the possibilities and stuff, you know, once you you've figured out, OK, can I hunt year round? You know, can I hunt turkey? Can I hunt deer? And then what what weapon can I use or can I use multiple weapons, gun or bow? And then.

slowly break it down after that year after year after year of okay now maybe I can take my daughter there or now maybe I can shed hunt there. I think that's that's pretty much a good start as far as identifying what's there. Don't be afraid to get to to meet the neighbors. That's that's a I can't emphasize that enough especially after this year. Like I said I hounded this particular property for 13 years and I never even met this guy that was across the road.

Dan Johnson (41:07.583)
Mm-hmm, and you never know dude that that same story that you told where you shot a deer it ran across the road into another property If you didn't know this guy or didn't have the ability to reach him you would have never found your buck so never so Well, this is a great start to this first episode of how to hunt small properties and Thanks for bringing this to the table Jason man. I think this is a great. I really do feel that

Jason Thibodeau (41:20.19)
Never. Nope. Nope.

Dan Johnson (41:36.875)
more people hunt quote unquote small properties than they do big properties and how to get that. I'm really excited for the next two because I love talking strategy and things like that. And so these are gonna be quick, short, to the point episodes and I guess we'll talk to you next week, dude.

Jason Thibodeau (41:44.306)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Jason Thibodeau (41:55.274)
Yeah, sounds good.

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