Hunting More as a Trophy Husband

On this episode of The Western Rookie Podcast, Brian talks with Duane Sessions about being a trophy husband and getting to hunt the entire fall.

Duane and Brian met last fall in Montana while chasing bugles with bows. Duane and his brother were camping nearby, and the guys talked almost daily between glassing spots and bonfire chats. Duane and his group helped Brian and Brian’s brother out of a tricky spot while in Montana and they have stayed in touch throughout the off season. Hear how Duane structured his life and his family to be able to hunt as much as he wants, why he never wants to ride a horse again, and how he adapts season to season and gets in on bulls.

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[00:00:00] All right. Welcome back to another episode of the Western Rookie Podcast. This is your co-host Brian Krebs talking. Dan Matthews is not gonna be on this episode. He's got some meetings with his family and a business partner down there in Missouri. So we're gonna ride at Solo again. Hopefully it turned out well with the episode 58 Branson Krebs that we ran solo.

We're gonna do it again. Got a really cool guest in today. His name's Dwayne Sessions. Dwayne and I actually met on the Elk Mountain this last fall out in Montana. He and his brother and a friend were camping. I don't know, just down the block you, I guess you would say, from me and my brother.

So we met, we saw each other pretty much every day glass and elk and started to connect a little bit and Duane has had an extensive history of hunting the West, so super excited to, to get him on and talk about just elk hunting, archery. He does a lot of fly fishing up [00:01:00] in the mountains.

That's his real passion. And so we might dabble in some fly fishing content since it's, west of the Missouri. It probably qualifies for the Western Rookie Podcast. Super excited for today's episode. I don't really have a lot of Of updates for you on the life side of things. It is still snowing here in Minnesota, so shed hunting has been put to a halt.

Haven't got out lately to find any antlers. However, Dan and I have finalized our plans. If you listen to the last episode, we are heading southwest in April to find some elk sheds and so we're probably gonna be doing some podcasts from shed camp. So that's exciting. And then application seasons upon us.

So the ELK team is looking at Colorado as a potential state. We're not sure where we're gonna elk hunt in the state yet, but archery elk in Colorado is gonna be happening this year. So we might be applying or we might do over the counter. So we'll keep you posted as I learn more on that front. And [00:02:00] that's about it.

That's about all the updates I have for you today. And I see that Dwayne has logged in and is waiting in the lobby. So I'm gonna pull 'em in here and we'll fire this episode off. You're listening to the Western Rookie, a hunting podcast full of tips, tricks and strategies from season western hunters.

There are plenty of opportunities out there. We just need to learn how to take on the challenges. Hunting is completely different up there. That person, 26, big game animals. You can fool their eyes. We can fool their nose 300 yards back to the road, turned into three miles back the other way. It's always cool seeing new hunters going harvest an animal.

I don't know what to expect. If there's anybody I want in the woods with me, it'll be you.

Dwayne, got you in the podcast. How's it going today, bud? Pretty good. Yeah. Enjoying some snowy weather and [00:03:00] hanging out, getting. Trying to find stuff to do. Yeah, I'm in that same boat. We're getting dumped on again today, another six to 10 inches. It's pretty much put a cease to all shed hunting which sucks.

And yeah as I was getting set up, I was wondering about you and I was thinking, I wonder if Duane is getting more excited for application season and elk hunting, or is he just solely focused on fly fishing? , man, I've been cooped up. My daughter, she's, she played basketball this year and so I've been chasing that around and really haven't had a chance to to get out with the fly rod.

And so I'm really chomping at the bit to do that. I just, I, this time of year, especially once March hits, I just fly fishing is. Takes over for me. Yeah. I will say I've never fly fished at all. I love fishing. Yeah. But to me, I love hunting way more. [00:04:00] And when I was looking at your Instagram page just a little bit ago, it's I think you're at like a five to one fish to animal ratio.

See? Yeah. Would you say fly fishing is like your, the, the number one on your list?

Yeah. Yeah. Just be mostly because that the season's longer for me. I, I'll, I'll even take breaks just once archery season's over, October, November, if the, if the weather holds out good and, and, flow levels on some of these rivers are good.

That I'll take breaks from rifle hunting. So to fly fish and even archery season, I hunted Colorado early in archery season as last year. And I took my fly rod with me. There were a couple of days. It was slow, it was hot and I just went down, threw on a pair of chos and climbed in the river and caught fish is fly.

I'm such a newbie when it comes to trout and fly fishing. Is [00:05:00] that something that you would cook up at Elk camp then and eat the fish you catch? Or does it not taste? I mostly for me with fly, I don't particularly enjoy eating trout, I guess I, I guess it's more I enjoy torturing them with a hook and then sneaking back in the water.

Yeah. But here and there, I'll, I'll keep one and, and I have done, especially the backpacking in the summer I'll get up to some of those high mountain lakes and. And I'll go ahead and keep a couple and, cook them over fire or whatever, just, but no, I don't eat a lot of trout.

I just like catching them. Yeah. It's probably one of those things where a guy should get more into it because every eight, nine day elk hunt we've ever done, there's always like one day where you're like not feeling like you want to co peak the mountain. And so at least if you brought a fly rod, you could be doing something fun versus just sitting in your bunk.

Yep, yep. And actually, up there, where I met you last year the, there, there's some [00:06:00] creeks and stuff that are running through that area that there's not, you're not gonna find like big fish in there, but there's brook trout and stuff in there and if I do have to eat a trout, a lot of times, one of those smaller brook trout is probably my favorite.

You can just stick it on a stick and roast it. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose depending on how deep you are, how long ago you ran out of food. I bet that brook trout starts tasting really good. Yeah. If you're hungry enough, which I do, I did wanna mention talk about how we met. You and I, we met last year in Elk camp just by chance.

We didn't go to the same hunt. We were just found out. We were camping next to each other and hitting the same glassing spots most days. And eventually I feel like it's probably, however you meet someone hunting, you're like pretty cautious at first. Yeah, we're hunting yeah.

Over there. And then once we started to, I mean we're seeing each other almost every day. Eventually we figured out, okay, like those guys just hunt over there. We don't even, we've never been over there. We are hunting over here. Not too much overlap. So then it was more fun to be a [00:07:00] little bit more open about what we've been seeing or in the case of last year, what we haven't been seeing was usually the story of the day.

But I did wanna give a huge shout out. So if it wasn't for Dwayne here and his brother, me and my brother would very likely still be packing Jackson parts up the mountain. Cuz we had some technical difficulties. We popped a ranger tire on probably one of the worst roads we have ever used to elk hunt, vertical steep rocks dugouts and washouts.

And that's where we popped a tire right at last light, right as a thunderstorm was rolling in. And so we made a quick decision to bust it down that hill. We actually took the way, I think you guys typically go up. We went, we got off trail, we tried to cut some distance off of it, but we were basically diving off a cliff in the dark that we've never done before.

Yeah. And got back to camp and luckily there, Larry, Dwayne and his brother were having a beer [00:08:00] on the fire and had two, four-wheelers and we asked if we could borrow one and go up there and take the spare off or take the tire off, bring it to town, and then use the four-wheeler again to bring it up.

And actually, is it, is Ken your buddy? Is that his name? Yep. Okay. Yep. Yeah, Ken actually found your four-wheeler on his way out and he was gonna say, oh, I'll just bring it out for everyone. So no one has to make a fourth trip. And I didn't know where to put your key, so I just kept it in my pocket. But otherwise, yeah, he could have brought your four-wheeler out for you, yep. Yeah, that was I don't know. That's, that, that's one of the cool things me, with Elk camp like that, if, there, there's definitely those guys, they're super secretive. They're, they're super cautious about, what they're, if you find somebody that, you run into somebody that, that, personality wise, you just you, you do well with it's nice having, we didn't go hunt together or anything like that but we got the point where we were just checking in with each other and making sure we knew where everybody was gonna be.

And then that way, like in the evening, because even that [00:09:00] night, we'd noticed that you guys hadn't come out yet. And we were like maybe they got something down. But it's nice to have those open lines of communication, especially back in a place like that where, you know even in good conditions, it's a hall to, to get out of there.

Yeah. And it's just, it's nice having people around, that, we weren't in each other's business, but we knew where we, where each other was at so that we could, kinda have that safety net. Yeah. And it's nice, it's like a community aspect to elk cunning, right?

Where it's I don't sleep in your house, but I know if I need help, I know where you can knock on a door. And and in that particular place, I feel like that's almost a rarity because we see all the other people that kind of hunt in that general mountain and we're like, we're not gonna get along with that group.

The way they are operating and the, what they're doing. Yeah. Especially the year before we met, we were there for rifle season. Ooh. Yeah. That's rough up [00:10:00] there. Yeah. You get, and and I understand it to a point, there's some there's a lot of locals around that are very protective.

Of, their secret spot that you know, that we all know about and and they just, they're almost standoffish if you're not a local. And I get it. But I don't agree with it, but I understand where they're coming from. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, and I don't even know if it was more so standoffish.

I'm sure some people were one pe once somebody actually found my spotting scope, it bounced off my four-wheeler on that really bad road. Oh. And then I went around that entire area that night asking every camp, and eventually I found the people back on the mountain, the next hunt. And I was like, Hey, by the way, did you find my spotting scope?

Cuz you were up here yesterday? And he goes, yeah, it's back at camp. Follow me out and I'll give it back to you. And I was like, sweet. Yeah. But it's more so I think we are elk hunters that happen to have a four-wheeler and we use it as a tool. . I think a lot of people in that valley are off roaders that [00:11:00] happen to have a rifle.

And that was the difference that really frustrated us is opening day, you're hearing more, more ATVs and side by sides hitting the red line than gunshots. Yep. And so we're like, yeah, maybe not anymore for rifle, but we'll come back for Bo. Yeah. And then we met you and then we actually met that cowboy who was hilarious.

Yeah. And the day, the next day after you basically saved us, he came knocking and was like, Hey, I've buried my truck. Like I can't get out of this little place where I'm camping. And so we had to pull him out too. And he was buried. There was no way it was gonna be a long walk up and over the ridge to get back to his headquarters to, to get some help for him.

Yeah. But yeah, no. Ironically, right before we popped that tire, I had a cow at 60 yards and I was really looking like I, we were locked, so I could have probably slowly drawn and shot, but what I couldn't really do is make sure I had a good range and they were open country. And so [00:12:00] it's I just don't feel like I want to push the limit.

Sixties already a long ways, and then 60 without a guaranteed range, like a solid range and adjustment. It's not a shot that's favoring me as the hunter anymore. Yeah. So we got into a big herd. My brother saw that day. He saw about a three. He thinks it's mid threes and he's seen a lot of bulls, so I believe him and because I let out a bugle.

and we hear a response about 300 yards away. Just like you do. Just elcon. Yeah. And so we're looking and usually it's funny cuz once you've done it enough, don't just take off, pull up the map, check the wind, okay, we think he's here, let's do this. While all of a sudden he bugled again and he had cut the distance in half in about 10 seconds.

And so we're like, oh crap, this is not good. He's above us about a hundred feet. He's coming fast. And so we just try to run. Sure enough dead fall. Like we're in the middle of the dead fall. Yeah. And so we both trip and fall and we make it a [00:13:00] all of about 10 feet and he's there full herd. Huge bull.

Turns out a different hunter. Jumped him and has heard tracking his bull and it just was coincidence that I bugled, but he was gonna, he was gonna run over us anyway. So he winded us. We had bad thermals and he was above us and we had no time to move. But we saw that big bull. I think it's probably a big bull that you guys had also been seeing.

Yeah. It probably was there. Yeah. There was, there, there was one real good bowl. And then there were a couple others that were, they were decent bowls. But I don't, when it comes to those bowls, and I've got a bow in my hand. I'm not real, I don't, I'm not real picky.

No. I was about to shoot the rag horn that he was with, he was at. And he went behind a tree and I was at pulling back to get him on the other side. And right as he was behind that tree was when everything, all the cows, everything caught our wind at that moment. That rag horn, I think blew through our wind cuz he was going so fast and he [00:14:00] wasn't as smart.

But the lead cows and that big bull caught our wind and everything locked up and just took off, which is a bummer. It's cool to be close. But that whole day, like we were in 'em, and then right at last light, I almost shot that cow. And then thinking back oh my gosh, what if we would've popped that tire at knowing, looking back, seeing that thunderstorm came through after dark and then we would've still been quartering and packing and then we would've had a flat.

It would've just been, it would've been a survivable ordeal, but it would've been a real bummer. Yeah. So I'm glad it worked out the way it did hindsight. Yeah, it was. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you get, that was a bad spot and. and yeah, I would, I would, we were just happy that we were there to help you guys out of that.

Cause that could have been bad. Yeah, it was funny. We did go home that night and we were like, man, I don't know. Dwayne's brother didn't really seem so hot on that idea. We're a little worried. And and then the next morning your brother's dude, I am so sorry. I heard the whole conversation from the bathroom.

I thought my [00:15:00] brother already said yes. I didn't realize. He said, I'll ask my brother and I didn't mean to be such a dick. And we're like, oh, we're like, we didn't think you were a dick, but we were a little bit worried yeah. Cause he comes out and he's standing around there and we're telling him what happened.

And he is, it was just like this uncomfortable silence. And I'm like, really? You're not gonna, you're not gonna let him use it. , . And then he is oh I thought you already said they could . Yeah. Yeah. That was, it was a real big sigh of relief when he said that the next morning because we kinda left it at we'll check in the morning.

And then we knew that the cowboy had that real old raggedy, solid axle, four-wheeler. And that was like our next option was like, I bet he's not using that. Yeah. That would've been a bad one to take up that road too, because that, that solid axle that's a road that you crack that axle

Yeah. It's bad. It is bad. And we thought about it like, my dad has a carbon copy ranger of my brothers, so we should have just put it up on blocks and took the front and rear tire off of it and brought 'em with his spares. Yeah. [00:16:00] Yeah. That's something that definitely we need to add to our system for sure.

But yeah. But yeah, I was listening to some of your podcasts that you've done with other people, and it sounds like your style, maybe just the style of those two bowls that were on the podcast were different, but it sound like you're very comfortable spotting and stock and elk with your bow versus calling them into you.

Yeah. If you are if you are in an area where you don't have a ton of pressure yeah, I'm okay with just trying to get as, as close as I can without making sound. I do like to get out, in the mornings, if I'm, if I'm out there in the morning, because, that area we were hunting over there, we do a lot of, there's.

We get up in the morning a lot of mornings and go up in glass and try to find elk. But if I'm already up there, if they've been regularly in a, certain area, several days in a row, I'll go hit it in the morning and maybe hit like a locator, bugle or something just [00:17:00] to get a feel for where they're at, and then, like you said you figure out what the wind's doing, what the thermals are doing, and just trying just push it close and see if you can find them. And sometimes you gotta hit a few cow calls or something to try to relocate 'em again.

But yeah I spot in stock. I have no problem with do you if it's open country like we were, it's, I feel like that spot's kind of weird because it's not that high elevation to have a tree line and then even the trees aren't that thick. And so I feel like it's a unique spot.

Is that usually where you start to do more spot in stock when it's like kind of that more open country, you're probably gonna get windowed anyway, or Yep. Very likely you're gonna get windowed if you try to call 'em into you. Yep. Yeah. And and that's the thing that, that's the thing with open country too.

If you're out there and you're, and you're doing a lot of calling and stuff, with, especially with that particular area, all they really have to do, because you've got these, [00:18:00] you've got these timbered slopes, and then the opposite slope is completely beared.

. And if you're working your way up this open slope, they can see you from that timber. And so if you start calling. , they're looking over there and they're not, they're not seeing an elk. And so they're, a lot of times they'll either just sit tight or they'll just blow out the top.

But, whereas if, if you've got a g a general idea of where they're at, you could I'll do a lot of times where I'll see him go into the timber and I'll slip up the bottom of that drainage, and hope the wind holds out. And and I'll just sit, pretty close to where I saw 'em go in the timber and just, and wait for them to make a sound.

That, and that can be an all day thing, but you know that a lot of that comes from, like you guys in the Midwest with whitetail hunting and stuff, sitting in a tree stand, I've done a lot of that. When I when I lived in Oklahoma and And so for me, I can sit there all day.

I have no problem. If I'm pretty confident that [00:19:00] they're there I'll sit all day and not make a sound and, and wait for them to get up and start moving around and make a noise again. And then, I'll decide how, how I'm gonna approach it. Yeah. It's kinda, there's a lot of guys out west here that they don't have a lot of experience just, sitting all day and, and they wanna push that issue and it usually doesn't go good.

Just be, because like I said, the way the terrain is there, with the, with the timber on that, on that kind of north side and then, the opposite slope being wide open, you're gonna get busted, and going through that timber, even though it's, it's fairly open.

There's most of it, there's not a ton of, like bad deadfall, but it's still, it's hard to be quiet. Moving through there and then, when you trip over 'em, they know you're there. Yeah. Yeah. That is a different unit. We're used to more black timber for sure. Yeah. And and yeah, that's funny.

You, you make the correlation to like whitetail hunting. We just had Ryan Carter on the podcast [00:20:00] last week and I'm sure you know him based on other people, and he said the same thing. He's I actually just started putting together my whitetail patterning techniques with trail cameras and loops and just started applying it to elk hunting.

And then he obviously uses a lot of tree stands cuz he's hunting like very early season, summer pattern stuff. Yep. And yeah I like what you say and I think it, that unit, I think between the unit and the year we had last year, it was just a weird combination because. a lot of elk, but they weren't very vocal for whatever reason.

And I heard that across a lot of the west last year. I don't, yep. I don't understand how it could be the same thing like states away where pe it's like middle third week of September and we can't buy a bugle. Yeah. And so I definitely think that's where you might just have to change your tactics up, like you said.

Yeah. If I get eyes on a herd and I put 'em to bed or close to, pushing the issue is gonna maybe blow that one, it might take you three days to get on [00:21:00] another, small batch of elk. And so if you wanna push that issue, push your issue when you got bulls going off everywhere and it's okay, if we blow this one, we got another one 600 yards away, we can go chase.

And I and I've hunted that area like that too. I. That that's the nice thing about, that area if if you've got someplace where you can get up, you can glass those elk and you can kinda see what they're doing. I honestly, I like to, my preference is to spend a day or two glass 'em before I try to make a move on 'em, but I've got that time.

Yeah. There's some guys that, they've got, five days they gotta get in there and get it done. And they'll, they'll try to make adjustments on the fly and it works out. But, there, there's been years, same area. I've actually killed two bulls up there within probably a hundred yards of each other.

Two years in a row. And the first year we called it, we called the bull. And almost every morning it was just, they were just [00:22:00] going off, right before daylight and and so our strategy was we're not gonna waste time glassing. We're gonna get up here where we know they've been and we're, we're gonna call em and, and move, call and move, call move And to try to get the wind and everything in our favor.

And then the next year, we weren't hearing anything. And but again, that, that general area I think the day I shot that bull, we'd watched, we had watched him and a couple others the night before. And so that next morning I was like let's just get after it.

And, we slipped in there and and it took. Most of the day to to find where he was. But, he was still hunting working our way around and, we just happened to, we just happened to spot him, bed it down below a tree and we'd actually the day had gone so slow, probably 10 minutes before we saw him.

We'd called, like 30 yards away from where we'd seen him. We set up, did [00:23:00] some calling and there, and it was just absolute silence. And we just happened to catch a glimpse of him as we were still hunting our way back through some timber and, and then I just, I put together a plan and stocked on him, put a stock on him and lucked out.

Yeah. Was that a bowl that was like s. Oh yeah. Oil. I've had the same exact thing happen in a different part of Montana. Me and a buddy, we're walking through and it was like a slow day and we're probably moving too fast, but we weren't even, we weren't even on elk. We're basically doing a glorified scouting mission and we go through this patch of woods and it's all of a sudden we just both stop and it's we got t-bone by a scent, right?

And you're like, there's elk here. And so we slow up and we find a patch of fur. Like we find those bowl beded at 40 yards above us. And it must have been a cold, rainy day because the thermals were going down. And we tried to cow call. We were putting up glass, trying to make sure he was legal, finally figured out he was [00:24:00] legal.

We're doing a cow, 40 yards. It's man, we're we're not set up to be doing calling. So like we didn't really get too aggressive. Then our other two happened to meet us. Like they came in 30 yards below us. So now we are set up great. Like we're perfect. They're 70 yards from the bull.

We're 40. They can't see the bull, can't see him. He's beded behind these trees. We can only see patches of fur. And man, we had play signals. Like I joke that we should get these quarterback arm straps so we can be like, do two, four or two zero. But we're, we got all the hand signals and so we're like, ramp it up, cow call bugle, give the bugle, give the chuckles.

That bull didn't even care. 40 yards away. Wow. Didn't care at all. No peep. And so I think it's just, you gotta keep that in mind. because a lot of people see Corey Jacobson run around on ridges and bugle, and they bugle back, and then he shoots some, and that's great. It works for sure. But you, what you didn't see is the a hundred bugles, he ripped without a response and [00:25:00] all the elk he runs by and he will say yeah, I run by elk all the time because I want to interact with one.

I don't want to kill one. Yep. And so it's not every bull in the woods is gonna answer your call. No. It, there's sometimes it's a, it's it, you're just lucky that, that anything's talking, and and especially when the area that, we're where we met, you don't have, like the wolf pressure and stuff like that, but you get, you get over closer to Yellowstone Park and, and those units around There and there.

There's a lot of times, guys, they won't hear a bugle in a week, and they're in elk every day, but they're not talking because of the predator situation. Yeah. And that's gonna, we did hunt. We've hunted some gravels, which is, I think it's a mountain range off the park, but it's still kind of part of that greater Yellowstone ecosystem was what they said, right?

Yeah. Bears and wolves for sure. We saw grizzlies and we've actually had decent [00:26:00] bugling in there. The reason we left is cuz we had a little, we had a couple encounters that were a little close for comfort with grizzlies, and one year we were there, there was like five mullings in our valley the week we were there.

Yep. Yeah. It was the year that all the cows, all the beef cows ate whatever, they ate the wrong flower and died like a whole herd died. And so there was, I think they counted like 29 bears. In this area feeding. Yeah, it was nuts. The amount of guy, the amount of mullings they had. I, and there was like, I think there were two mullings where they attributed it to the same bear and they were like five miles apart, where they were from.

The one guy got hit and then, like two days later, five miles away, another guy gets malled by, and I think it was, I think they said it was the same bear, right? Yeah. It's, it was scary. They shut down the, they shut down half of a mountain. Like a big mountain. Yeah. They said everything west of here shut down.

Do not go in there too many bears. We were hunting the other side of that mountain and [00:27:00] so halfway through the week, somebody got enough cell reception to check the news and they were like, and so we were like, oh man, there's a lot of bears here. But then we're like they're all over there so we should be safe.

Then halfway through the week they're like, all right, all the bears went home. You guys can come hunt here. Which obviously meant they went up and over back into our side and we going home. We stopped at a newspaper or the gas station, saw a newspaper, and it said, malling number three or whatever it was that week, one mile up Fish Hook Creek, I don't know.

Yeah. What the creek was. And I'm like, Ben, didn't you kill a bowl? Wasn't your bowl like one mile up fish hook creek? And yeah. And he pulls up the map and the chunk of woods was small, like 200 acres comparatively like pretty small woods. And so it's oh, like goosebumps, right? Like the good chance your kill, like your carcass was what that bear was there for.

And then someone else got mauled, how could, but it still gave us enough goosebumps. We're like, let's look for other [00:28:00] places in Montana. Yeah. Yep. I really, because I, so I do like typically 10 to 14 days with my brother during archery season. , but the rest of archery season, a lot of times I'm by myself and I guess there's some ni some naivety to me.

And so my wife has, has more common sense about that than I do, and she really encouraged me to stay away from those, grizzly areas and, but so I, I'll I'll go check out a couple other spots where, the population isn't as prevalent.

Yeah. Yeah. That's basically where we got to two guys in our group, they're like last minute tag alongs. They're not really part of the group, but we said, if you wanna camp with us, we can point you to some spots or whatever. They had, they came up on a car, a bear kill or, I don't know, it was a carcass hidden, buried like, Logs and stuff.

It was obvious a bear was like [00:29:00] protecting this carcass. Yeah. And then we saw grizzly 300 yards from our four-wheeler and they texted us and said, it's like last light. Me and my brother are hunting and we get a text message and says, Hey, just fyi, we saw a bear like 300 miles from, or 300 yards from your four-wheeler kind of in between you and the four-wheeler.

And we're like, oh. And so we look at each other and you wanna see how fast we can sprint back to the four-wheeler and see if we can make it before dark? And he's yep. And so we just run, we're basically running off this mountain racing the sun, looking for bears bear spray out kind of thing.

Yeah. And it gets dark right before we get there and we know where we are. We're like within a hundred yards of the four wheeler. You're starting to be like, oh, we made it. And a coyote goes, 10 yards from us in the woods, like the last strip of black timber. And we both lost, lost a pair of underwear at that.

Yeah. Yeah. And you're just your nerves are so on edge in a situation like that, that, like even though you know it's a [00:30:00] coyote, you're like, you can convince yourself that it's more than that. Yeah. Than, yeah. It's it wasn't even like that. It was just like we had a finger on a hair trigger and it's who?

We didn't know it was a coyote at first. We just heard this loud ass noise right next to us when we're thinking bear. And then it's oh, it was just but still, man, we was, we lost our, we lost a pair of underwear on that one. Yeah. And so that was just added up, five people got mauled.

We saw bears by camp. Elk hunting wasn't phenomenal. It was good. Not great. Let's go find a different place to hunt. And that's what led us. We looked at the map and started over like, where should we possibly go? And that's, we landed on the unit that you and I met in. Yeah. Yeah. Which to be fair, that unit has some frustrations, but we've seen more and bigger elk in that unit for a general unit than anywhere else we've hunted.

Yeah. No, it's, it, it's [00:31:00] a it's a good unit. It's, it just if you get, as you get later into archery season and you get more guys coming in there, the pressure kinda, they've got some, they've got some pretty good little escape routes that, they're, they're just, They're gone, and you're just, you're done with those elk.

But the nice thing is it's usually a couple of days and they'll filter back in. Yeah. And if you've got the time again, some guys don't have that time, but if you've got the time to to hang out and and if you enjoy glassing, eventually, it seems like they always come back in after a couple of days.

Yeah. And it seems like that unit is a good unit to test your adaptability as an elk hunter. Yep. Like you. Yeah, for sure. If you have a lot of tools in your tool bag as an elk hunter, you can call, maybe you bring in like a mobile tree stand set up, you know how to hunt, sign and pass, like still hunt stock glass.

Like I feel like that's a good unit for someone that's real versatile. If you're like a one [00:32:00] trick pony, you just gotta hope that the elk are in the mood for that one trick. Yep, for sure. I've heard you talk, mention it twice now. You got a lot of time. And then obviously when we were talking i, I, last fall I got an insight to just how much time you do have, but tell people like how you were able to build, like structure this life that you're able to hunt 14 days with your brother and then send him back to work and then keep going after that.

My wife was, my wife is super smart. When we were when we were young and first married she was almost done with school. I still had some time left and I was like she got a great job offer. It'd been stupid to pass it up. And so we I was like, ah, I'll just finish school wherever we land.

By the time that school year was over and we were expecting our first child and. And we'd gone down and we were in Louisiana. And I was like, what? How would it be if I just stayed home with the kids? And she [00:33:00] was like, really? And I was like, yeah, how hard can it be ? And then, so the rest kind of history, that our first daughter was born. And I remember sitting there, the day that my wife had to go back to work, and I'm sitting there with this child and I'm like I'm looking at her and going, all right, what are we gonna do? And I was just like, I'm just gonna do what I like to do and I'm gonna tell you, and I'm gonna, I'll throw her in a backpack and we'll go, do, we'll go fishing, we'll go hiking, we'll do all this stuff.

And and so I pretty much raised my kids and eventually got to the point where I had some freedom. I could go, I could start heading out and doing some of these longer hunts. When I got into archery, probably about 15 years ago, maybe a little bit more than that.

But but anyway, I, I just, she does really good and I, and when we moved to Colorado I I got a job. My, they were getting older, I've only gotten one left at home now. And so we I took a job as a fly [00:34:00] fishing guide. And then the outfitter I was working for, he ran hunt in the fall too.

And so I started doing that and into the industry a little bit and, met some super cool people and I've just been able to I've just had a lot of flexibility because my wife's smart . That's what it comes down to it. It's not that you're not smart cuz you're an electrical engineer on paper.

All right, so I think we broke up a little bit when we got you back. And so I think it's funny you said I, oh my, my wife is just smart. But you're also an electrical engineer on paper, right? So it's not like you're not smart. No, I'm, what makes me smart is I married a smart chick. Yeah.

Yeah. That's the real strategy there. And so that's what I did. I married a pharmacist and I'm also an electrical engineer. So you've given me a little bit of a roadmap maybe , to work towards . Yeah. But was it when you were guiding, is that when you really developed your love for horses and meals?

Something like that. Yeah. After, after you get, tossed off a horse [00:35:00] a few times and, and bitten and, and and I just, I really enjoy how stubborn they are, , it's got a place in my heart. Yeah. I think you mentioned while we were hunting in Glasson, if I never have to ride a horse again, it I'll be happy.

Yep. Yeah. I've got, I don't know I've got some, I've got some buddies that, they'll do like horseback pack trips and stuff in the summer and I'm like, I'll walk . No, there was actually, there was one day where, we were, they were, we were hauling a pack string out.

and we needed pack saddles on the horse that I normally rode to haul some clients back in. And they and they were like, what do you, are you okay walking out? And I'm like, yes, please. And I actually ended up, I left camp like probably about 15 minutes after they had taken off with the pack string.

And I passed them right before we got back out to the trailhead. It [00:36:00] was a couple miles, of trail and no I'm much more comfortable on my own feet versus having to trust the horse. They just don't like me. Yeah. Oh no, my brother's the same way. And I, he says I just don't like horses.

I think the real secret is he never learned how to ride 'em, and he just smashes his. Every time . I spent that, that year that I guided wilderness area hunts, horseback hunts. I was on a horse I was looking at, I was looking at it one, one day and it had been like 32 days straight that I, that I been on a horse, for whether it was hunting or, going out and hauling supplies in or whatever.

And I, I still never developed a love of horses. Yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting take. I look at a horse and be like, man, if I had a horse shed hunting, I could [00:37:00] do, or all the places I could go, but then you hear all these busted up cowboys that, fell off these horses, and I'm like I just wouldn't do what you are doing.

But then you hear, then I met you and you're like, I was literally doing everything I could possibly do to not get bucked off. And it still happened. Yeah. For No, for sure. I just, they don't like me. And part of the problem is too, is like an outfitter typically he doesn't have, like those cowboys that were up there pushing cows when we were, while we were hunting.

Yeah. Your, out, your typical outfitter, he doesn't have a horse like that . Yeah. He's got some, some broke freaking, horse that he bought from a, from someplace where they do trail rides, and they throw somebody on that horse for a couple miles and then they come back and, that horse is made to walk up that trail and then walk back down that trail.

And if you want 'em to do anything other than that, they're just, they're cantankerous. Yeah. They're like the horses that those [00:38:00] cowboys didn't want. Yeah, exactly. The, they're the horses that those cowboys would send to the dog food factory. Yeah. Great horse. Got a great horse. It's only 500 bucks, and you're like, oh, shit,

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty impressive. What, we just saw a little bit of those cowboys working, but I remember just busting it one day to the very top, but we whacked from the bottom of the top. I'm not like that big a deal, but you're definitely like a little winded when you get up there and you look and there's a guy on a horse in some country, and you're like, holy crap.

I don't know how he got up there on that horse, but it, I would not be comfortable with that. Yep. And then to chase cows down, like getting ups, the easy part, chasing the cows down is the real fun. Yeah. And they're like, they're not like, they're not just like slowly walking this horse down, down through, it's some pretty steep terrain.

And they're, they're on. They're running those horses, to catch cows trying to Yeah. [00:39:00] Cut back or whatever. And I'm like, I'm not that, I'm not that much of a horseman. Yeah. And that's where I think if I ever did get animals for Western hunting, the llamas are starting to look better and better.

Yeah. Yep. I'm still gonna walk, I'm not gonna ride, but they're gonna carry all the weight they feed themselves. Basically. Yep. And that, and that, that may, that's a huge, especially if you're doing, like a backpack, huh? Yeah. Being able to take and, put, 60 pounds or whatever on a llama, you're just carrying your boat.

It's awesome. Yeah. Literally. And then if you have a. More for if you shoot an elk, or even at that point like when, I think one thing people really forget about when you hunt deep that I've talked to in anyway, they're like, oh, that's so deep. Come imagine you're getting an elk outta there.

I'm like, you just break it up. Do it's, I would rather do twice the trips on half the pack. And if you have lamas, what's the big deal? Just make three trips with your llama. If you don't [00:40:00] have any weight on you, you could probably do all three of those trips in a long day.

Or like two easy days. Like we're getting back to camp for happy hour each day type of a day. And then it's it's nothing to, it's nothing to walk five, 10 miles a day in the mountains if you don't have that weight. Yeah. Yep. And that like the first trip out, you're, you haul whatever you can meat wise.

And then, once you get back to camp, you're also dumping an extra 10 pounds, in, in boat. And, so once, once you shift into that mode of, you're just hauling meat out you can streamline your pack pretty quickly to, to, to where you're just hauling, you're just hauling meat and, and so you're walk in, you're empty, come back out with a full load and just do what you can.

There's a lot of guys that they'll pack on a hundred pounds and, or so and try to do it all on one trip and, and that's great. As I've, as I'm getting older, I'm like I'd rather just throw a couple extra trips in, it's, yeah. It's a nice walk in [00:41:00] and come out heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Especially the walk in, man, you're, when you get it, when you're in pack mode, you basically got your water bladder, a trucking pole, and your backpack like, so the walk in, you're like four pounds maybe. It's beautiful. The walkout sucks.

Yeah, I've done everything. I've done everything from half of a meal deer, half of a small meal, deer, which is like probably less than some of my day packs. I've packed up for a hunt. Really? Yeah. All the way up to about 1 75, 180 and I'll tell you, there's a sweet spot and it's not my name is Brian and my sweet spot is X.

It's like how I'm feeling today. The training I did this summer, that year I was doing 1 75, 180, I had also lost 60 pounds, worked my tail off doing double headers. I went through a breakup, but I found it's really easy to get in shape when you go through a break. And and I drew a once in a lifetime tag.

So I had, I left my pack frame at the [00:42:00] gym and I'd put plates on it after my weightlifting and then go hit the stair climber. With the stair climber, I really only got to two plates, but on a treadmill I'd get to three plates, three, three and a half plates. And so I knew I could do it right. And I did the front and rear, and I walked out pretty clean.

And that was 1 46. I weighed that without the pack, just the two, the meat and bones weighed 1 46 when I got to the head and the neck and I left way too much neck on the head. The hide was wet. Yeah. I saved enough hide to mount two bowls. And then the antlers and the way it got on my pack, not only was it 1 75 when I weighed, but it was also such a mismanaged weight where the balance was all off and I had to stand at basically a 90, feet up.

Yeah. Bent over to balance it. And that's what's I hit a hard wall. That I couldn't do that anymore. Like the 1 46 when it was weighted nice is fine. And I did the entire bowl in one day. [00:43:00] I've done five trips at this point. But that head, it crossed that threshold. It's if you can just keep under that, you can move so much faster.

Yeah. So that's my strategy. And I'm a bigger dude. I mean you I'm not a huge guy, but I'm not a small person either. So for me to do, like an 80 or a hundred pound pack is the equivalent of like my brother doing that 60 pound pack, cuz he's just a smaller guy than I am. Yep. Yeah. And it it depends on, there's other factors too.

If it's if you're only having to go a mile, I'm, I'm like I'm like, I'm just gonna make myself miserable, and we're gonna get this, if I've got another guy with me, I take the time. I've gotten the point where I really prefer to take the time to just go ahead if, and break it down, get it off the bone.

And, once you do that, it's it's doable with two guys to get that thing out a mile or two. But and it's still it's freaking heavy, [00:44:00] but but it's doable. When you start getting into that, five miles, 10 miles, things like that it's smarter to, it's smarter to do it in multiple trips.

It just is for the majority of people. Just from the standpoint of saving your body. Yeah. If you load that thing up and hurt yourself coming out, with that whole elk, then you're having to drop it anyway and make multiple trips hurt. Yeah. And it's just not worth it.

Yeah. And especially when you start talking like a longer pack out, the longer your packout is, the better chance is you're going uphill and downhill. Like you're going up and over. And that's when that weight really starts to eat you alive. Yeah. Versus if you're talking a one mile packout, that usually means it's a straight line.

We just gotta go down, hit this road. Yeah. Then we can dump it and we might have a four mile around to get the four-wheeler or get the truck. Yeah. But that's empty and that doesn't matter. Yeah. That's free. Yeah. And that's another reason I like that area up there where we met is, even if you've [00:45:00] got your four-wheeler, or whatever, even if it's sitting back at camp, , you can get that meat to someplace and drop it.

And it's gonna be, it's gonna be safe enough while you get back to camp and get that four wheeler to come up and pick it up. There's just, there's some roads there that kinda intersect in good spots that I don't necessarily like to drive up them, when I'm hunting, but, once I've got something down, I'm, I'll go up and pick it up.

Yeah. That the unit really is. I'll put an asterisk on that. Most parts of that unit are really nice mountaineering unit. It's easy to navigate, it's easy to get places. Yep. It's almost too easy cuz you're wa like, it's such an open woods that you're probably walking too fast and then you're jumping.

It's that easy, which kind of can be a double-edged sword, and that's what made calling hard and a lot of things. But we went into a couple places, if you drew a line between our camp and your camp, and then went farther back that way up in there, we got into [00:46:00] that stuff and that was gnarly.

That was nasty. We did one hour loop and we're like, Nope, we're not hunting this. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I know exactly where you're talking about and we've spent some time off and on up in there and, we've found sign and stuff, but the second time I think that I wandered up in there, we were, I was almost scared to call because it was so gnarly up in there.

I kinda didn't wanna run through. I knew if I got something coming, I was gonna shoot it and then I was gonna have to get it outta there. Yeah. Exactly, and I've, I got a sense that was like a summer spot. Like I, because it's dark, it's cooler, there's more water. Yeah. It's thicker. More blow down rocks.

It's just, it was nasty. It just wasn't fun. I felt like that was maybe where the, where like older bowls would go in the summer to get outta the heat. But it, to me, it doesn't strike me as a good rut spot because if I was a bull, I would want access. Like I wanna [00:47:00] move fast, I wanna find cows, I wanna be able to run easy.

And that's where we were hunting. Plus, personally, I went there in rifle season, I did a big loop, big seven mile loop, and on about mile five, so I'm about as far away from the four-wheeler as possible, or the road I fell through a bo just straight down. Yeah. I took a solid step, took one more step, and there was no ground.

The earth was not there anymore. Yep. I know exactly where to talk about up there. And it I mean it is, . Yeah. I was not happy. I was relatively unwell mentally at that point in the hunt . This was like day five. We haven't had anything going. Yeah. This far . And and I was just pissed. Now my whole legs are wet.

I went I'd never hit bottom. I was just lucky enough that I went like this and put my arms out at goofy angles and caught something hard. My gun went under, I was carrying that under the cafa underarm thing that went [00:48:00] halfway down. Yeah. And then I had to walk, it's 30 degrees or 20 degrees, whatever it is.

And I had, I still had two miles, a solid two miles, maybe even three miles to get back to the four-wheeler. And it was prime time. And I'm just like, I'm done. I haven't seen as much of a squirrel, let alone an elk. I'm going back to the cabin. Yeah. I'm gonna start a supper and take my clothes off and hang 'em up over the fire.

Yep. Yeah, it's that's, that unit's a goofy one that it, it seems like that unit's, it's like the unit that doesn't wanna play by the rules. It's you think you're gonna come here and call Elkin, let me throw this at you. Or you think you're just gonna glass 'em and put 'em to bed.

Let me throw this at you. They're gonna be gone by the time you get there, cuz somebody on a side by side just ripped through there. Yep. Or you're gonna have somebody slip in on the ridge above you and father, as they're coming up over the ridge, they get busted. Talk on the phone while you're trying to sneak on these Elks.

Oh yeah. Public land hunting. Yeah. Yeah. It was [00:49:00] funny. One thing, speaking of all that, one thing I wanted to touch on, so we were elk cunning and we went up high one day cuz we did the Dwayne Sessions plan. We got up, had breakfast, went and glassed sat in the Ranger, or you sat in the truck, stayed warm.

but we put some milk to bed. We followed some milk. We saw where they went. So they're like, all right, perfect. We're gonna go in after 'em. So we climbed up there. But when we were up there, what was interesting was that you were somewhere where you could see us, you could see these two hobos walking around.

Yep. Yep. And tell people what you actually, what caught your eye. You're blue. Yeah. My bow, so my bow was, is a white camo Matthews. And apparently that thing shined like a neon bar sign up there. Yep. And so that's what, yeah. Cause we're sitting over there and, and we were waiting to see if something would come up over the top of this ridge and I just caught a glint, and just caught my eye and I was like, oh that's Brian's bow

[00:50:00] Yeah. I had it strapped to my pack. And when you said that, I always knew oh I bought it when I was going through a white camel phase in college where I thought white camel was the coolest thing and I was gonna buy a truck and make it white camel type of mindset. Yeah. That's a better phase than some people go through in college these days.

True. Yeah. It wasn't a white line phase, it was a white camo phase. And so I always knew it wasn't optimal, but I didn't think it really mattered that much. But when you said, yeah, I saw your bow from two miles away with my naked eye, I'm like, all right, the next bow is not gonna be white camel.

That's what kind of, yeah. Really put it in my mind that this could be an issue now for elk hunting. Yeah. Yeah. I don't get, I don't get as obsessive over, over that kind of, Is I know guys that they, they go buy a brand new bow and the first thing they do is they break it down and they rattle.

Can that thing, just because, they're like, this green ambush is [00:51:00] too bright. Oh, yeah. They'll doll it out a little bit with spray paint and but yeah I do try to get, some, some of those earth tone colors, but I don't I don't obsess about it to the point that some guys I know do.

Yeah, I don't either. But the white one that struck me as if it's that noticeable to a human, and Elks probably gonna look at that and they might, they honestly might look at it and be like, I don't know what that is. But it's not that bad of a deal. But I just don't necessarily want them to be like scanning and be like, oh, there he is.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I'm gonna do something. Earth tone, maybe I'll do that. Canyon. I don't know. I think I'm gonna switch to Hoyt. You guys are shooting Hoyt, right? No, I actually I've been shooting Matthews for a couple years. I've been, I'm not I'm not married to a brand of Bow.

I, I go out and when I'm looking at a new bow I shoot everything, I'll go, I'll if, I'll shoot a bear if they've got a bear there to shoot. Just, just to [00:52:00] see how it feels compared to, the other bows and but no, I've been shooting a Matthews for three years, I think.

Okay. Yeah. Are you shooting a heavy bow?

It, it's a it, the one the one that I have set up for L season is it's a vxr. What is that? I think that's three or four years old and it's a, it's the 31 30 31 and half axle to axle. It's the longer, yeah. Bow. But I actually waited here the other day.

I didn't have my quiver on it, which is, is in the, my seven arrow quiver probably puts it, right at 10 pounds. Yeah. But without that quiver on there, I think I was, I think I was right under, I was just under eight. Yeah, I remember you said that. Yeah. Shoot a 10 pound bow, which seems heavy.

I shoot a heavy bow. That's cuz I have a pretty good sized stabilizer with some weight and I have a back bar that I hunt. Yeah. I've [00:53:00] got, yeah. So it adds up. Yeah. I've got a, I think I've got a, I think I've got a 12 inch 12 inch stabilizer on the front and then I've got the, a 10 inch back bar. Yeah. I think I'm, so not to compare sizes, but , I think I'm right in there somewhere.

And then are you shooting a lot of weight? Are you shooting a lot of poundage? So my vxr is, I, it's, I've got the, I've got the 75 pound mods on there. Okay. It honestly, the difference between the 70 and 75 isn't that much, but it gives me just ano it, it gives me the optionality of I can maintain a, a good speed, cuz I shoot hundred 50 grand Broadheads Yeah.

For elk. And so it gives me the, the option I can maintain that, I'm right there somewhere between two 80 and 2 85 feet per second, with a, with. Heavier broad hood. Yeah. I recently just switched. I'm, I think I'm at [00:54:00] like 1 75 grain, and that's, I'm, I wish I could shoot a little faster because I feel like I'm big enough and I work out enough that it, 75, 80 pounds wouldn't be the issue for me.

So it'd be nice to get some of that speed back. But it's all archery's just one of those things where it's almost like it's a journey, not a destination like rifle hunting's a destination. Yeah. You build a rifle and it's done. Yeah. And, but like archery hunting. And I listened to some of the podcasts that you had with Brian, the other Brian call the more famous Brian and talking about like how you, like you got into it and then you mean you've done a lot of work on your form and your archery journey yourself.

Yes. What have you found was the biggest impacts to not just accuracy, but just being sustainable, like really dialing in the form. . I, I was fortunate enough to, when I met Brian call I was fortunate enough to be someplace where there's just, there's an amazing shop and and those guys, they really took me in and helped me work on that form.[00:55:00]

Got me going down the right path. And then, and, and then they started introducing some different tools. I messed I've got all kinds of stories with hin releases, sending 'em through my bow punching myself in the face, things like that.

But I, I try. I haven't been as good about it here lately I try to get out and shoot. And I'm lucky too, I've got a lot of, I, I kinda live a little bit rural so I can get out in the backyard and shoot. But I've got a buddy that, he lived down in Austin in the in, in the suburbs for a long time.

And he had 15 yards where he could shoot down, from his driveway into his garage. And he'd go out and shoot, two dozen arrows a day. Yeah. And a lot of it's just repetition and once, once you get some instruction on what proper form is it's recognizing when that form is breaking down.

And that's where I I introduce like a HN release because. For me, that HN release really makes me focus [00:56:00] on my form to make that shot, break clean and, and so I basically have, I've got a, I've got a thumb release and hindle that are pretty much the, they're not the exact same company, but they're very similar dimensions.

And so when I'm shooting with that hand release, then when I pick up that, that thumb button, I just use that same form. And honestly if your form's correct, it's gonna go off the same way as that hand release does. Yeah. And I just I know a lot of guys that, that they go out they pull their bow out, a month, two weeks before archery season starts, and they go out and they kill elk and great.

Good on 'em. But me personally, I just, I want to be, I wanna be ready. You're all the time. Yeah. And and so I just, I put a lot of time into, as I'm walking around, working on the house or whatever, I take a few minutes for lunch or whatever and I pull the bow out and, I [00:57:00] hit the target out there.

A lot of times I'll just I'll shoot that target, not knowing exactly what the range is and just seeing, because that's another good thing to do too, if if you know where your arrow's hitting on your 30 yard pin, whether it's 25 or 35, you can get an idea of error calculation.

Oh yeah. Where that's gonna hit if you're off by a few yards. Yeah. And I just my, my fear is wounding an elk and then having to spend three days looking for it and then, ultimately not finding it. Yeah. That, that is, worst case scenario, right?

That's yeah. Not that wrecks the whole hunt. It wrecks the whole experience. You're gonna think about it. For you, you'll be thinking about it until you get out next. But for far flatlanders, we're gonna think about it the whole year. Like it's just gonna eat at you for a whole year.

Yeah. And we have people in our, we have a guy in our group that did that at once and it bothered him for a long time. Yeah. And it's funny you say that because that exact situation happened to me. I had a six point bowl of walk by. I was [00:58:00] that. Very killable. Most, experts would've killed that bull 10 times, outta 10 times.

But I wasn't that confident in the air calculation in the just picking up a bow and shooting without the known distance. And I felt like I needed to get this range in so bad that I wasted all my time trying to get a range and I was shaken and I never got it. And he walked through the opening and then after it all cooled down, I, arranged it as 35 yards.

And then that really taught me like, if this is under 40 yards, you need to be able to kill that bowl without your range finder, because you're not always gonna have that luxury of pulling it out, having the time. I've noticed it's very hard for me to range when there's a bowl because I'm going like this, I shaken so bad I can't get a good range now.

I can't even trust it when it goes off. So if it's that close, I really need to be able to know my distances and know how my bow is gonna perform so I don't have to waste that time. And I and I love, I'm like anybody, there's a level of arrogance that, I can go out and, I can [00:59:00] pull that bow back and I can, I can hit a target at 80, 90, a hundred yards and that's great.

But I know so many guys, if they get so focused on that 50 plus that they don't know what's gonna happen inside that 40 yards, and they can't get the rangefinder on it, and, that's when you shoot over 'em, you shoot under 'em, because you don't know what the, what those pins are like, inside of 30 yards. You can use your 20 yard pin. You just need to know where to aim. So if you're off by 10 yards, you're still gonna be in that, you're still gonna be in that kill zone. Yeah. And you're gonna be in, in those vitals. And it's so important because the closer you get, the less time you're gonna have, the less movement you're gonna be able to get away with.

Yeah. Oh, for sure. And at a certain point, you just have to have that killer instinct that says, it doesn't matter if this bull's at 32 or 26, I'm gonna put my 20 on his lungs and the forties on his heart, and this bull's gonna die. Exactly. Exactly. But you've [01:00:00] gotta know that's the case.

Yeah. And that comes through repetition and practice. Yeah. Yeah. That's good insight. I wish you would've told me that five years ago, the year before I shot that or missed that shot at a bull, which is so equally frustrating because two days later, We're walking out of this, we're walking out of the timber into a meadow and there's a bull feeding midday at 53 yards.

And the, and that, this opportunity's been eating at me for two days now. Of everything I messed up. I didn't stop 'em, I didn't get a range. I shoot, I was shooting a single ping slider at the time, which is feeding into why I thought I had needed this range. Nothing went to plan. So the second time I did everything textbook.

I knocked my arrow. I think I already had an arrow knocked cuz we could smell elk, I ranged them 53, dialed a 53 drew back as I stopped him, did the, stop 'em. Yeah. Settled the pin shot brakes. And there's an explosion about a foot in front of my bow. There was a branch that was so [01:01:00] close.

It was in front of my arrow, but not in my site housing. . And so when I shot that tree went wild. I saw my lighted knock just sail way out into Yellowstone. Yellowstone's 20 miles away, but that's how far I missed this bull by 30 feet over his back. And the bull just kinda whirls and looks like what happened.

And my brother steps out from a behind a tree, just lasted the Mohicans, takes an arrow up, pulls back, asks for the range. I'm like, 60 shoots it. Bull runs two miles straight back to the four-wheeler and tips over and done deal. I'm like, yeah, that's just the way this works, did everything right.

Yep. Tree jumped out in front of me. Brother gets the bull. Yep. Yep. But yeah that, that's the thing too, is like in that situation, you're hunting as a pear and , you've got first shot. Your brother's not just standing there, with his proverbial Yeah.

You know what in his hand, he's, he, he's somewhat prepared that if something goes wrong with your [01:02:00] shot, he can get that shot off. Yeah. And yeah, that last bull that last bull I killed he was dead with my arrow, but my brother was, he was down below me. I, my shot was 30 yards and I think his was, his, was like 42 or something from where he was at.

And but I hit that thing, I hit him, in the chest, killed him. But he went to stand up and my brother was ready. Yeah. And, he threw another arrow up there because he saw him trying to get up and that made a quick track job because he rolled right over in his bed and died right there.

Oh my gosh. That shooting an elk with a bow is, I haven't done it yet. My brother's done it a bunch, but that's gonna be right up there. But watching him tip over is gonna be like, yes. That's the full circle of, just otherwise even if you know you drilled them, but he ran off and you didn't see him tip over, you're still gonna be like, what happened?

I saw that arrow go in his heart and he ran a hundred yards and now I can't see him anymore. . [01:03:00] Yeah. Yep. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. I had a great time talking to you. I don't wanna respect your time even though you sounds like you got a lot of it. But we are coming up over an hour here maybe more so respect the listeners time.

So yeah. Awesome. Give people a chance to follow you along with you. I want you to share your Instagram cuz it's amazing . It's my Instagram is 3 0 3 trophy husband. Like actually the outfit, one of the outfitters I worked for down in Colorado. He kinda, he gave me that one.

He was, I was talking to him about, about, guy and fly fishing for him. And he is he's what are what are you doing right now? Where do you work? And I kinda thought about it for a second and I said, I'm a trophy husband.

And he goes, You're hired , which is funny cause I think I asked her, we got, I got your Instagram like day one or two before I knew that you actually were a trophy husband. And [01:04:00] my first reaction was like, that doesn't seem to match the guy I just met. . That's a very strange Instagram handle.

Then I found out no, my wife works full times, I'm home with the kids and then I just hunt and fish. And I was like, oh, okay. Now it makes sense. Yeah. Get on there, follow me. I'm always, people coming from the, from the Midwest, the south you want advice on, I'm not gonna give you like particular spots, you want advice on gear that you might want to have, like realistically, there's a lot of.

there's a lot of opinions out there on gear. People tend to spend a lot more money than they need to. Yeah. Tactics anything like that. You can reach out to, I don't post the whole ton, but I'm always, I check my messages and anybody that's got questions for me, I, I'm an open book on a lot of stuff and, I just, I want people to come out here and be successful.

I guess I'm kinda in the minority on, the resident hunter. I [01:05:00] like to see people come out from outta state. I like meeting people from outta state. Yeah. And and seeing them succeed is, I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a cool thing to see, to meet people in the hunting community that are like-minded and are helpful and open.

I think it's just important if you're gonna be asking those questions, learn how to ask good questions. For example, don't ask, where should I go ask? How should I look for a unit? , right? And then yeah, that gives you, that gives us, or Dwayne or me or anyone that gives you them more ability to answer your question.

Cause they're not gonna give you your spot. But then they could say, if you're looking for just an experience and seeing elk, look, go to this website and look for, places that are over objective or look for the kind of terrain that you feel comfortable hunt.

This is how I would find a unit. And then that's not only gonna teach you something, but then you're gonna be able to do that over and over again. Where it says, if Dwayne magically does give you a spot, it's probably a spot he doesn't like. And it's not gonna go to. It should be, [01:06:00] but it's only one.

Like you're, that's a one time thing. Right Now you, if you go there and it doesn't work, you're still out with anything. If Dwayne teaches you how you can look for a unit, then you can apply that to every hunt. Yeah. Yeah. Learn how to ask good questions. You get a lot more information that way. . Yep. Awesome.

Thanks for being here, Dwayne. Go check him out. 3 0 3 trophy husband. Lots of great fly fishing pictures. Lots of mule deer. Yeah, lots of elk. So Yeah, hopefully I, yeah, hopefully the, as I start getting back out with the rod, there'll be more fly fishing pictures, but I'm gonna try to get out with the camera a little bit more this spring and early summer too.

And then see what I can get. I've got some backpacking trips planned and so I'm gonna try to get the camera out a little more and try to get some pictures of some elk and moose and stuff like that going too. Cool. There it is. Gonna be a full service Instagram page. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Thanks for being here, all man.

Thanks for listening. Yep. Good to talk to you. Yeah, always reach out. [01:07:00] Yep. Bye.

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