Latitude Outdoors In 2025

In this episode, Dan Johnson speaks with Kevin Leach from Latitude Outdoors about the evolution of their brand, the importance of building a strong team, and how they navigate competition in the hunting industry. They discuss product development, handling business challenges, and the significance of customer experience. Kevin shares insights on their collaboration with Realtree and highlights new product launches for 2024. In this conversation, Kevin Leach discusses the latest innovations in saddle design and hunting gear, focusing on comfort, packability, and user experience. He highlights the new Maverick and Lone Star saddles, the Profile platform, and the Ranger backpacks, emphasizing their unique features and benefits for mobile hunters. The discussion also touches on layering systems for cold weather hunting and future product developments at Latitude.

Takeaways:

• Latitude Outdoors started selling products in July 2020.
• The COVID-19 pandemic increased interest in outdoor activities.
• Building a strong team is crucial for business growth.
• Innovation is driven by customer experience, not just competition.
• The company has a long-term product roadmap.
• Communication with customers is key during challenges.
• Celebrating milestones boosts team morale.
• Saddles should be tried before buying for the best fit.
• Collaboration with Realtree offers new options for customers.
• New product launches include single panel saddle offerings. The Maverick saddle is lightweight and comfortable for beginners.
• The Lone Star saddle offers enhanced comfort for larger individuals.
• Packability is as important as weight for mobile hunters.
• The Profile platform packs down to an inch and a quarter thick.
• Layering systems need to retain heat even when compressed.
• Merino base layers are effective for cold weather hunting.
• New backpacks are designed for customization and versatility.
• The Operator pouch allows for single-hand operation.
• Future products will include an XL version of the Profile platform.
• Latitude is focused on customer feedback for product development.

Dan Johnson (00:00.758)
All right, everybody, welcome to another episode of a very cold hunting gear podcast. And today we're gonna be talking with Latitude Outdoors, Kevin Leach, how we doing, man?

Kevin Leach (00:12.366)
Good morning, Dan, how are you? It's icy cold here in Michigan today. We've got a snow day for the kids. So we're hunkered down at home right now trying to find a quiet space.

Dan Johnson (00:20.608)
Right, right, I feel you. I got three kids downstairs. I told you before we started recording, it is not out of the realm of possibilities that I have a kid, probably my youngest, barge through my office doors here and say, my oldest daughter or my oldest son are not letting him play the PS5.

Kevin Leach (00:42.232)
Yeah, I'm liable to have a three-year-old bust in on us as well, so I can hear it around downstairs right now. It is.

Dan Johnson (00:45.955)
That's That's life. And then I got hot hands. It's 52 degrees in my office and that's with my space heater running all night long. And so that's how cold it is outside. But we're gonna do it. We're gonna make it through it and we're gonna talk about saddles, saddle hunting accessories and everything like that today. Before we get started though, I do wanna do a quick shout out to the partners of the Hunting Gear podcast. And basically what we have here is cell cams.

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Kevin Leach (02:00.494)
you

Dan Johnson (02:10.646)
Outside of that, let's talk with latitude today. Kevin, just the initial impression of your brand.

There are, feel like, how long have you guys been in official business at this point? How long have you guys been selling products?

Kevin Leach (02:27.926)
Yeah, so we started selling product July 2020. So the COVID year is when we started.

Dan Johnson (02:30.88)
Okay. Yep, yep. Did that have some difficulty starting in that year or was that kind of like an assist?

Kevin Leach (02:40.014)
Difficulties from the standpoint of producing and delivering product, yes. From the standpoint of selling it, no. It actually, I would say, helped everybody in the industry as we all saw. More people were trying to get outside. There was record license sales. And the saddle hunting thing was still pretty new at that time. So there was a lot of momentum there in year one when we got things kicked off in that sense.

Dan Johnson (03:05.41)
Yeah, and now just looking around and absorbing what I absorb, not only as a content consumer, but also as someone who is in the industry and pays attention to certain things. I look at latitude, you're up there. it's top two now. That's just the way I look at at the saddle, saddle focused products and companies. It's you and Tethered at the top.

There's a lot of other companies that have saddles, but not with the footprint I don't feel that you guys have. What do you guys contribute that to?

Kevin Leach (03:44.258)
You know Dan, we're not, collectively as a group, know, I think ultimately everything goes back to your team in terms of what you're doing as a company and building as a brand. And we have been extremely lucky to build this amazing, you know, still very small team, you know, that we've created over the last five years. And that bleeds through in every aspect of the company, whether it's new product, media, branding.

the website, know, all the operational aspects to deliver product quickly and on time when people want it and need it. Everything goes back to the team. You know, we really try to focus on ourselves and making ourselves better and setting a standard for ourselves. We don't necessarily try to compare ourselves to others in the industry. So very much appreciate your comments on where you kind of see us and how we fit in the space.

You know, we're trying to just work hard and build great products, great experiences, great media to go along with that and build and develop a long-term relationship with our customers. You know, it's not our goal to kind of sell them something quick and get them to jump to buy something. We want a lasting long-term relationship with them over time. So that's how we approach things. And we're trying to set a standard for ourselves over time that is driven by, you know, the customer. So that's how we view it.

Dan Johnson (05:00.088)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (05:08.354)
Yeah. So I'm gonna do a little compare and contrast here. And I'm gonna say like for me, I've reached a time, I've been doing podcasting now for 10 years and running the network since 2000 and late 2017, I think it was. And I've come to a point where you can do research, right? You can make it.

to a certain point with just everything that you learn in Google and how to do this and how to do that. But I'm to the point now where if I truly wanna scale this to the next level, I'm gonna have to bring in somebody who has done this before or is way more knowledgeable in this space than me, right? Or maybe even hire a contractor to come in and give me pointers and tips and stuff like that.

Have you guys reached a point like that where in order to take it to the next level, you guys are having to pull someone in that may not necessarily be in the hunting space to take latitude to that next level?

Kevin Leach (06:19.074)
So I'd say there's a constant evolution there from kind of the beginnings of starting a company and as you grow, it's constantly evolving. So, you know, we were very fortunate, I would say. So myself and my two partners, Alex Chop and Jake Metallic, we're equal partners on the business. We started this thing together. We're good friends from, we all met in college. Those two guys grew up together. Then, you know, I kind of came into the fold and met them in college. We were kind of doing all this.

building our own gear on the side. And that's how this all got started. You know, all three of us are very different individuals with different skill sets. So from day one, we were fortunate to have that mix, you know, instead of kind of just one individual like yourself kind of figure and trying to figure everything out on their own. And there's sort of this natural evolution as you grow, you outpace your capacity or the, you know, the capacity of the people running the business and

Dan Johnson (07:13.4)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Leach (07:16.706)
you have to start to add and plug in other pieces that provide specific skill sets that are, you know, the way we approach is try to find skill sets that are better than if we were to do it on our own. So we've just slowly added pieces over time. And, you know, there's sort of this natural pull as the business grows into what areas where you need to enhance, you know, skill set and capacity across the team. And those first few hires,

as a young company are really, really important. At least that's how we look at it. and, know, we took a model of investing in the best talent and the best people we could find early on. I think we're starting to see, you know, the benefits, benefits of that over time, as opposed to trying to, you know, add a bunch of pieces to the team that may not have a lot of, you know, reps under their belt with what we're trying to do. Not a lot of experience. So that was kind of the,

the model we took as owners, we sacrifice, you know, really financially in the front end of this thing to bring in the right pieces. And then we knew that that would kind of pull the business forward and get it to where we want to get to. And then it just continues to evolve from there as we add different areas or different areas of the business gets stressed from growth. So people, it's just, it's a big, big part. We're always looking at.

companies and people and skill sets and new technologies outside the hunting space. That's a constant thing for us in every area of the team and the company. And it's something that we emphasize across the team because, you know, there's just a lot of cool stuff out there and a lot of different industries. We all came from different big industries outside the hunting space. Like this is our first time in the hunting space. So, you know, we kind of had exposure to that and, you know, we don't, we don't,

We haven't left that behind. We want that to be part of our DNA as a team.

Dan Johnson (09:16.748)
Right. You mentioned something there you're always looking. Okay. And you know, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, you know, I said top two, right? You guys are what I feel in the top two of this space. And so in this space of, especially in the hunting industry, there is a lot of copycatting in my opinion. And then there's, and that's a two way street, you know, sometimes a company will look at,

Kevin Leach (09:20.942)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (09:46.073)
a competitor and go, man, we need something like that. And then they introduce it, right? And then there's other times where it's like, hey, that's exactly what we just did, right? What's the conversations with the other two owners look like when you guys are trying to either introduce or compete with a same SKU or a product?

Kevin Leach (10:12.142)
Well, would say first and foremost, we're not necessarily starting the conversation by looking at what competitors are doing in a specific category. There's likely a natural, hey, we've got opportunities in different categories, but we're starting with the customer experience from day one in that conversation and identifying, you know, the problems and what's the journey map and the experience that the customer is currently having with those types of products if it's an existing category.

and what are some of those problems? How can we evolve that? How can we do that differently? We're always trying to do things differently. So you mentioned copycats. That's not just a hunting industry thing. mean, every industry in the world as new product or new ideas, new innovations come out, there's sort of this natural maturation that occurs within that space of competitors coming in, doing things very similar. And then there's things around patents and IP and...

You know, we've always taken the approach of trying to do things differently, but also in a way that enhances the customer's experience, long-term experience really with that product. We don't want to just change the way they're doing something for the sake of changing it. We want to enhance it, make things easier, better, faster, more efficient, those sorts of things. And then, you know, so we're trying to be different, but we're trying to solve problems in a way that enhance the experience as well. So it's,

It's a constant kind of back and forth and there's a lot of work that goes into that.

Dan Johnson (11:43.555)
Right. So when it now, when it comes to looking at a path, right, let's let's use bow manufacturers, for example, the the big dogs in the space, they have the 2026 bow already made. They have the 2027 bow. If it's not already complete, they're working on it. Right. So they're ahead of every release.

Are you guys to that point yet where you have product launches ready for 26, 27?

Kevin Leach (12:15.8)
We are to an extent, it just kind of depends on what you're talking about. We do have a very extensive new product roadmap that looks out several years. We are still very much a small team. So a lot of that in terms of how far along different things are is capacity driven at this point. That's probably an area of the team that we're looking to beef up even more over time because we have all these ideas and all these things we want to do. And there's only so much time and how many of those you can work on at once. But you know, a big...

A big thing that really enhanced that for us last year was the merger with TX5 Custom Gear. And for those that aren't familiar or aren't familiar with TX5, that was a smaller competitor of ours out of Texas, Matthew Tompkins started it. He was the owner or founder. He actually just did something similar to us. He kind of just started building gear at home, threw it up on Facebook and people started buying it. And so he spun up a little website and he was just doing that on the side.

He still had his day job. We actually were having a conversation with him about doing a collaboration around a backpack product because he had several of those. And then he had the unfortunate circumstance of losing his day job because the mill he worked at shut down. So he said, Hey, how about we just come together? You know, we, we love what you do and how you approach new product and the quality and design. And why you just come, you know, work with us and just do that all the time. You don't have to worry about all the other operational aspects of the business.

You know, it was kind of a gift from God for both sides. The timing was perfect. He came over. We released a ton of new product last year and most of that was driven through Matt and his work. And he's been a huge asset, you know, for the team here with our, so he leads all of our soft goods, textile product development and design work now. And that's really move forward our timelines further out into the future from a development standpoint on those types of products specifically.

just in the last year. only been with us for a year, so we're having a lot of fun working with him and we're working on that in other areas as well.

Dan Johnson (14:21.69)
Awesome. Let's run through some of the,

Before we get into products, I do have to ask this. like, how do you guys handle hiccups? Like when, cause let's be honest, owning your own business and trying to run it, run it smoothly, like there's no such thing as the perfect timeline, right? There's hiccups, you guys had the COVID, you know.

manufacturing issues from 2020 and whatever. How do you guys handle that when there's a speed bump and you tell the customer one thing and then you have to come back and tell them something different?

Kevin Leach (14:58.338)
Yeah, is every, it seems like every circumstance is kind of a one-off unique situation in that regard. You know, we, it reminds me, so I love Elon Musk and his quotes and I follow him pretty closely. He kind of mentioned a while back that a business is a filter for problems if you're the owner. So you can kind of get sucked into this world where all you're seeing is the problems all the time and not thinking about all the good things that are happening.

so we're, constantly kind of battling different things that are going on, but in terms of like, you know, a delay or, let's say we expected a design or something to work a certain way in the development process. And we thought we were good. We started moving some things forward on the manufacturing end. And then we kind of had to take a step back and reorient some things in the design to get it to work to our standard. those things that have certainly happened in, they, they're gonna always happen from time to time. If you're a product business.

We try to take the approach of always having, you know, open and honest upfront communication with the customer. We've tried to get away from, you know, kind of pre-selling things before they launch. We've done that in the past and had delays and that just wasn't a good experience for both sides of the table. So we've really gone away from that and try to be, you know, making sure everything is a hundred percent buttoned up before we sell anything. Even if there's kind of a delay on maybe the

the timeline of expected launch, nobody's put money out there and are waiting on the product going into a season. So those things happen. just, we try to communicate accordingly when they do with our customers and our retail partners who are a big part of all of this and manage those expectations. But when things go wrong, again, it falls back to the team element of getting them corrected and fixed and fixing them in a way that don't

lower the bar in terms of our quality standard. We don't try to fix something that's just kind of good enough to get it out the door if there is a delay. We're just, if we have to delay further to get it right, we're gonna do that. And that's just, mean, that's ultimately how we approach it. We're not gonna sacrifice the quality and the experience of the product to get something out the door. And then we don't wanna sort of mismanage expectations with customers or our retail partners. So, kind of two pieces there.

Dan Johnson (17:22.796)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you guys had a moment, like a high five moment or a slam the desk and go, we got it. Like, and I'll give you an example. I think it was last year, the year before I signed a contract with a company that was for, I mean, let's be honest, we're in business to make money, right? That's one of the reasons.

Like I love doing what I'm doing and I'm sure that the hunting aspect helps motivate you guys, but you're not doing that for free, right? And so I had a big contract signed and it was my biggest to date and I just hooted and howled and I was like, dude, I went out and celebrated with my wife that night. I was like, dude, this is big. This is a stepping stone for me. Did you guys have any moments like that when maybe you signed with a big box store?

or anything like that where it was just a stepping stone and you just got fired up about it.

Kevin Leach (18:23.074)
Yeah, I think a couple immediately come to mind. So our carbon fiber climbing stick product, you know, in hand and in use, it's an extremely simple, easy to use product, but that getting it to that point was a three year journey. And, know, we probably put more time, effort and money into that project than we have on anything else on the product side of things, which is kind of where my head tends to go to.

because I like to spend as much time there as I can. And we had several setbacks along the way kind of figuring that out. It was a very tough nut to crack to get the performance we wanted. And we were using an entirely new way to go about making a climbing stick, something nobody had ever done. And there was an upfront cost to kind of figure that out. And we kind of bared the brunt of that since nobody had done it before. When it ultimately got across the finish line and it performed to our standard,

It was one a big sigh of relief from my standpoint, because it was, it was, you know, it was a stressful journey along the way. Cause we were a very young, small company at that time. And we were kind of putting all our chips in that basket. when we reflect on it now, but when we got it to work and then we showed up at ATA and we were, recognized as best new product a couple of years ago. we just, we totally didn't expect that. We thought we might have a chance at it because it was something wildly different and it had.

you know, had some cool aspects about it, but we didn't really expect it to get the response that it did at the show and win the award. And, you know, all these retail partners kind of came on board to work with us. and that product was a big piece of that equation. so that, that's probably that one event that was kind of, for me, it was, it was a sigh of relief to a certain extent, but it was like this, you know, there was a lot of joy and excitement across the whole team when that did happen.

You know, that did ultimately help us get in with, you know, we work with Shields in terms of a big box retail partner. We started working with them that year. That product kind of helped get that conversation across the line. So those were somewhat intertwined, but, and they've been a great partner since. So, but it's not just them. There's a lot of them out there. A lot of what I would kind of consider kind of local big box stores or local regional.

Kevin Leach (20:47.022)
larger stores that do a really nice job like J Sporting Goods here in Michigan. you know, there's there's many others they've been with us since day one, actually. So that's why I want to kind of call them out. But that that would be kind of a one a one B sort of intertwined event there. They had that experience.

Dan Johnson (21:02.848)
Yeah. Is, is a saddle in the same realm as clothing and what I mean by that is it a gotta touch it, feel it, use it type of product or can it be bought online and shipped directly with no hands on by the, by the end user.

Kevin Leach (21:24.878)
So we always recommend that you get your hands on them and mess with them and get your butt in a couple different ones to kind of figure out what you like and what'll work best for you. Because again, it goes back to like, we want you to buy the right thing the first time and to have an experience that long-term, hours over hours and hours and hours in the fall is gonna be best for you. I love the clothing comparison, Dan, I use that a lot when people are asking me, you know, which saddle should I get? Because we've got...

three different kinds now and they're all different, all completely different. And I always explain it as, know, saddles are a lot like jeans. If you think about just Wrangler jeans, how many different trims and styles of men's jeans do they have? It's like 25, 30, whatever. And you know, that's because they fit different people of different sizes and shapes and saddles to maybe not to that extent, but certainly to an extent are similar in that all these different styles and options that are out there on the market fit and wear differently for people.

They should always, if they can, if they have an option, a local shop that carries them, go sit in them, go try them. If you got a friend with one, go try that. And that's gonna kind of probably save you some time and money on the front end of getting into this. You certainly can go online and just buy something and there's online guides and tutorials and all sorts of content out there that'll kind of help you navigate what's likely to work best for you based off your size, your shape, your hunting style.

Are you an all day rut hunter? Do you hunt a lot in the cold? Are you more warm weather, early season, whatever, regional, where you're located can impact that a little bit as well. So there's certainly enough information online to get you really close and likely get you to pick the right thing. But we still always recommend if you can get your hands on one, get your butt in one, go sit in them, then you're gonna 100 % know more than, I mean, let's say 98 % because a five minute sit is different than an eight hour sit. But usually,

Dan Johnson (23:20.674)
Right.

Kevin Leach (23:22.232)
So sometimes if you're brand new, that doesn't always translate immediately, but usually you can get a lot closer to picking the right thing. And that's kind of, when we're developing saddles, it's, mean, the experience of wearing it in and the experience of sitting in the tree, you know, are very much top priority. So we would rather have you, if you're looking at ours versus a competitor's, we want you to sit in ours and sit in that competitor's because...

You know, we're trying to make that as best of an experience for the long-term relationship as possible. And we have confidence that it's going to work well and you're going to have a good experience if you do go try it first. So you do it either way, but you know, that's kind how we explain that.

Dan Johnson (23:58.285)
Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I'm on your guys's website and I'm looking through your saddles here. And I noticed now that you guys are offering some of your saddles in Realtree. All right. That means you have a licensing agreement with Realtree. Does putting Realtree on saddles sell more saddles? And what are the benefits of teaming with a company like Realtree?

Kevin Leach (24:26.612)
so I would say the, just as we've matured as a company and matured on our ability to deliver product, you know, we've wanted to give the customer more options and we've really never done a lot with, with different colors or color skews and various product categories. and last year was our first time really kind of dabbling in that. I, I don't, I don't know if the camo necessarily

sells more saddles, I think it just gives, it just gives people kind of more options to choose from. I don't think the camo is necessarily going to push someone across the line to either go to a saddle or a saddle system or to buy one from us necessarily. But I mean, at the end of the day, this is hunting as a hobby. It's something that's fun, that's enjoyable. It's time away from work and there's other stressors of life. And if you like to have

specific camo and have all your stuff match. That just makes you feel, you know, better about yourself in the day than sort of have at it is always, you know, kind of our mindset on that. So we just kind of want to give some people some new options. You know, some of those old retro patterns and, know, so we've got Realtree Original and Realtree Advanced Classic on there. We are going to have some Mossy Oak Bottomland stuff this upcoming year. But those old retro patterns, you know, we've always really liked them. They're kind of...

They're kind of trendy right now, you know, we were, we were, you know, Alex and myself and Jake, we kind of grew up on those old magazines and you see those old patterns in there and our dads and that's kind of how we got into hunting. So that's always sort of resonated with us. So we wanted to kind of give that option to folks. and it's, it's had a very positive response in terms of working with, with Realtree, you know, they're awesome to work with. you know, we've learned,

Dan Johnson (26:04.276)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kevin Leach (26:24.6)
you know, kind of how their licensing model works and getting the patterns printed on various fabrics. So we've learned some benefits of working with them is we've kind of learned some of those delivery models that occur in the background to get product to market, you know, working with those, those larger camo brands. And then, you know, they've just been kind of great people. they've, they've certainly opened up some doors from a networking standpoint as well. You know, just by way of conversation and introduction. So it's been great working with them.

Dan Johnson (26:51.545)
Yeah, yeah. All right, I want to I want to jump to new products that were because you said you introduced a lot of new products in 2024. Let's just start with saddles. What are the new 2024 or 2025 products that you've you launched?

Kevin Leach (27:12.024)
Yeah, so last year we launched two different single panel saddle offerings. were traditionally always known for that two panel saddle design. I would call us kind of a category leader. We've had the Method 2 for almost four years now and what made that unique was I had a magnetically coupled two panel system so you could have a really small compact saddle walking in and out, but you get up in the tree, you can separate them, you have a ton of adjustability to get comfort. That's really

the advantage of a two panel and we really kind of had that dialed in so that it was super easy to use. Traditionally, they're kind of a mess when you're not up in the tree. So we kind of figured that out and have been known for that. with Matt Tompkins coming on board, we had a couple of ideas of some things we wanted to incorporate it into the single panel space, which traditionally, you know, to make one of those saddles more comfortable, you just, kind of have to make it bigger. The bigger it gets, the more comfortable it gets. And then you kind of...

you may or may not kind of have diminishing returns and how bulky it is. But we came out with two different offerings and incorporated some new things that allowed them to both be really, really comfortable without getting really bulky and heavy. But they kind of appeal to different people. So we had our Maverick saddle launched last year. That's our lightweight, streamlined, better price point if you're getting into it or you're new option. weighs like 18 ounces.

like all of our saddles, you know, has their metal free rope belt, removable leg straps, adjustable bridge. But what was really different about that is we changed the webbing that's used as the primary structures of the harness that holds most of your weight. We actually went up to a four inch wide webbing, which is twice as wide as kind of the next widest that's used by our competitors. And what that ended up doing was just getting rid of hip pinch, which is a big problem with single panel saddles. you, there's just not a

There's not as much adjustability to kind of move things around and how this thing is holding you in the tree. But what that is, it doubled that surface area of the part of the harness that's holding most of your weight, spread that out, got rid of that pinch. And then there were some other cool things where you can actually fold up the bottom edge of the saddle because that four inch has so much structure and wear this thing in with like an eight inch profile, which is similar to our method two, two panels. So it has that small walking in.

Kevin Leach (29:33.08)
profile that we really like and we're kind of known for it with the tube panel. And then you can just unfold that when you get up in the tree and sit into it and it's super comfortable. It's one of those products that's just, there's not a lot there to teach. It just kind of works great. You just, you put it on, you sit in it, you don't really have to make any adjustments and it's going to be really comfortable for most guys and gals. It's a good price point. It's lightweight, it's quiet. It's just kind of that, that,

That's not all that works for a lot of people. So we came out with that and then we had our Lone Star saddle, which is available in a couple of sizes. And that, you know, we continued, we brought over the four inch webbing, but it has several other features and enhancements that really focus specifically on additional comfort beyond what the Maverick is, which is a very comfortable option. But the Lone Star is a slightly bigger seat. It's got some airflow mesh padding on the inside.

breathable, it's not hot, but it adds a little bit of cushion to the ride. And then it's got something that Matt developed at TX5 called the hip pinch relief system. So there's actually a rigid backpack stay on the hip areas of the product. And what that does is it prevents the webbing from pinching as you sit into it and it goes around your hip area. It keeps that spread out and wide. And then it also helps with the way that it is sewn in, pull your weight throughout the whole body of the harness. So we find that

individuals that are I'd say a little bigger boned or the bigger the bigger customer larger individuals not always but they tend to sit in the Lone Star and just have an awesome experience. It's kind of what they've been looking for. And then the Maverick works really, really well for people that are new. They just want a solid, you know, really good, comfortable, lightweight option and a good price point. Or we actually have a lot of hardcore guys that love the Maverick because

They want to focus on their hunting. They just want something that's simple, easy to use, lightweight at a good price, and then they don't have think about it anymore. Those on the saddle side were the two new ones last year. This year going into 25, we do have our next generation on the two panel sides. We have our Method 3 saddle coming later this summer. And if you're familiar with our Method 2 or a two panel saddle in general, I mentioned Streamline walking in and out.

Kevin Leach (31:56.814)
A lot of adjustability to get comfort for a very broad range of body sizes and shapes up in the tree. That's the advantage of a two panel. We're doing several things with that new one where we're leaning into the comfort side of the product quite a bit. We have found over time and learned over time that a lot of people consider and look at a two panel first and foremost because they're trying to find more comfort. They're trying to get rid of hip pinch. And the two panels kind of allow you to move some things around and get rid of those hot spots.

We're bringing over that four inch webbing, you that we had a great, great feedback on from the Lone Star and the Maverick into the Method product. We're doing some interesting things with some padding on the inside of the two panels as well. We're updating our magnetic coupling system and we're gonna have this entirely new, I can't speak to all the details on it, but.

just yet, but we're having a new system to manage the two panels in terms of where they sit when you drop them down into the tree and how you bring them back together. That's going to be really, really slick. It's going to be all fully integrated without needing any additional accessories to kind of manage that. And so we're really excited about that one. It's going to have an entirely new look. It's going to look a lot different than any other saddle on the market. You know, we're kind of going away from this seatbelt and mesh look for several reasons, but

it's gonna be a really cool looking product and functionally is gonna solve. If the two panels had any issue in the past, it's kind of learning how to use it. So we're just taking that to the next level in terms of getting comfortable and ease of use.

Dan Johnson (33:32.982)
Yeah. What about your platforms? Do your users have a favorite?

Kevin Leach (33:41.102)
So last year we had a new one and that was one where we had a small delay on the front end of getting it out the door. No, that was our profile platform. We've had the X-Wing for a couple of years now. Yeah, the X-Wing is a very, very uniquely shaped design. And the geometry of that thing kind of evolved out of need from the standpoint of having to make some really difficult shots in difficult trees where we had gotten.

Dan Johnson (33:48.012)
That was the X-Wing.

profile.

Kevin Leach (34:10.776)
picked and weak side shots and you know it it created some footholds that allowed you to be really really nimble in the tree but you could still stand up there's plenty of surface area there if you wanted to stand up and to either shoot or make an adjustment or something. That's kind how the X-Wing came to be and that one's been around for several years now. Last year the the profile platform was our new one and what that did is well let me back up.

With the X-Wing, we've always had what we call our Rebel platform as well. And that was our more traditionally shaped platform. Both of them were out super lightweight machine aluminum. What we kind of did with the profile is bring the benefits of those two platforms into one product. And then we brought the price down with how we were manufacturing it. with the profile platform, the wow feature and the reason we call it the profile is because of how it packs up. So the post and the standoff actually fold up into

Dan Johnson (34:55.384)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (35:03.405)
Yeah.

Kevin Leach (35:07.16)
the platform base itself. And so you actually get this thing that packs down into an inch and a quarter thick profile. That's what we call it that. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (35:14.562)
Yeah, and that's crazy. By the way, I'm looking at the pictures of it right now like okay So I've been a lone wolf guy my whole life, right? The original lone wolf assault that that's been my bread and butter for the most part and Yep, until you know, I started running around with some saddles but still I use in my in my yearly strategy, I'm using lone wolves and I'm using saddles and

Kevin Leach (35:18.798)
Thank you.

Okay.

Kevin Leach (35:28.174)
I spent a lot of time on one those as well.

Dan Johnson (35:43.862)
The first thing that came to mind is why can't someone build a tree stand that does this? Right? Why can't someone do that? And I don't know why, sorry to interrupt, but that's kick ass that that profile, that's such a small profile.

Kevin Leach (35:52.942)
You're good.

Kevin Leach (35:57.132)
Yeah, mean, everybody's kind of for quite some time now been chasing kind of lighter and lighter and lighter gear. We think the lightness is really important. We're always trying to make things as light as possible, but packability is probably just as important. Everybody's kind of trying to figure out how to carry their gear in and out quietly, make it easy to pack, make it not so it's sticking way off your back. Cause then you get this big lever arm and it feels heavier than it is. So having that thing pack up like that.

It just totally changes how you put your backpack together as a saddle hunter and carry your sticks and your platform in. It just makes it a heck of a lot easier. So that's kind of, I mean, that's the wow feature of the profile. You know, the shape of the platform itself gives you great agility around the tree. The sides are actually this concave curve shape so you can really lock in your feet and make really small micro slow controlled movements around the platform 360 to take shots.

You've got several different resting locations. know, if you need to hide, swing out to the side of the tree to hide behind the tree while a doe group comes by to wait for that buck that's following in the rut, you can do that so you don't get picked. And then the front edge on it, you know, it has a slight downward angle, not a real aggressive one, but it has a slight downward angle. And then it actually has a slight backwards angle. I mean by that is it has a very shallow sort of V shape on the front.

And what that does is that totally eliminates that foot fatigue that you can get resting on on the front of the platform hour after hour, if it was just sort of a small edge. The downward angle helps with front to back, or sort of top to bottom on your feet, toes to heels, weight distribution, and then that shallow V helps so that you get good weight distribution left to right on your feet. It fits your arches appropriately so that you don't get all the weight on the outside edge of your foot.

Dan Johnson (37:29.292)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Kevin Leach (37:51.45)
So it actually, it evens all that out. And that's been really, really comfortable. It's got great traction. It's got this gritty powder textured powder coat finish. It's got traction molded into the top. The base part is a cast aluminum, which is, you know, a very quiet proven technology. It's got a leveling system that you can adjust with your foot on the fly up in the tree without having to kind of climb down to your top stick and adjust it if you need to make one. So it's got a lot of the things that the X-Wing and the Rebel did well merged into one product.

We brought the price down to just over $200. The other ones were up in the 300 range because of how we were manufacturing them. And so it just does a lot of things really well and it's very comfortable to use. And then it packs up just amazing.

Dan Johnson (38:31.98)
Gotcha. Now I wanna get into a different conversation here in just a second, but I do wanna give you an opportunity to talk on the backpacks that you guys have introduced. Is there anything crazy about these backpacks that need to be talked about?

Kevin Leach (38:51.214)
The backpacks were, you know, we have our Ranger 11 and our Ranger 22 came out last year. We are coming out with a Ranger 33 this year, which is just a larger capacity version of the 22. We had some requests for a bit more carrying capacity, so we're going to address that for folks. The pack designs were again, really from day one, the brainchild of Matt Tompkins. He was doing some very similar things with TX5 and

They really came about through just a lot of field testing. And what they do really well is they have a great sort of baseline pocket layout. They're the right size and capacity. And then they just allow for a lot of customization to get that pack to work really well for you and your system. Every one of us as Mobile Hunters has a little bit slightly different way of doing things that works best for us and for you. And these packs...

You know, they're designed to fit into that and mold into your system. Really from day one. So they've got MOLLE everywhere. And then there's kind of a, you know, there's a pocket layout that works for most guys is what we found. And it does that really well. But the 11 specifically, you know, it's a smaller packed targeted at scouting. You could fit, you know, a half dozen trail cameras in there and you're good for a day.

It also works really well for the saddle guy that just early season or hunts in a warmer climate, doesn't want to carry a lot in. It can do that. It works really, really well with the Hang On guy. So it's a great little pack to run on the back of a Hang On if you prefer Hang On as a mobile hunter. So it does a lot of things really well. It's a fun little day pack. But then the 22 is kind of our bread and butter 12 month out of the year.

pack that you can literally do everything with with one pack. You can scout with it. You can hunt early season, late season. You know, it's got the ability to carry a lot of cold weather gear, but it's not too big and bulky early season. It's got a belt that's removable so you can use it if you want. It's got a compression panel on the back and compression straps so you can remove that panel if you don't want to use it. But you've got kind of two sets of things to strap stuff down on the back. And then it was kind of, in our opinion, kind of that right size for most guys.

Kevin Leach (41:11.33)
from a carrying capacity standpoint. Obviously we're adding a larger size to, you know, there's some guys that just want to carry more stuff that really like the design of the pack.

Dan Johnson (41:22.038)
I think I'm that guy. I like big packs just because, and this is where this conversation is going, is to clothing, right here in a second. I carry a lot of shit, and I want to have backups in case maybe a rainstorm pops up, or I get warmer or colder than what I planned for, so I always like.

Kevin Leach (41:23.82)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (41:48.781)
to pack something heavy just in case, which means I need more space in my pack or whatever the case is. So obviously I'm that guy who likes the bigger backpack. Now, the last thing I wanna touch on here is a problem that every saddle hunter that I've ever talked to has brought up, yet I don't necessarily think that there is options to fix this problem quite yet.

And, but my gut tells me that there's gonna be somebody in this space coming soon that's going to try and address this problem. And that is layering while in a saddle. Okay? Clothing is, in my opinion, is gonna be the next step for this market. What are your thoughts on that and do you guys have any plans to answer that or to fix that problem?

Kevin Leach (42:42.488)
So I hunt a lot in Michigan, especially the last few years. I just haven't had the time to travel, running the company and we, I had a lot of swamps. So I had a lot of, high moisture, cold hunts, right? So I'm, you know, that's probably the most difficult scenario to stay warm in, right? The moisture sucks the heat out and you know, we have, we have a lot of cold weather here and those are always the best days. So.

I've spent years and years and years working on layering systems and how they work with the saddle. Where I've kind of fell landed, I would say that's working really well for me right now is, you know, kind of the merino base layers and kind of a mid layers on my bottoms that anything that is going to be between me and the saddle.

that's going to get compressed needs to still insulate. you know, putting down a bunch of down or Primal off that's highly compressible that doesn't retain heat if it's compressed between you and the saddle. That's how you get cold, in my opinion. And so you've got to have some stuff on your bottom half that retains heat when it when you have that compression. So merino Berber fleece in that butt area. You know, that's that's kind of what's worked for me. And then

I save weight and bulk with down top layers. You know, my coats, bibs, pants, whatever. I think, you know, the best system would be to get that down on the outside of the harness, right? And that's how you're gonna kind of reduce the bulk. Cause that's, those are the best insulators out there from a bulk standpoint is down and Primo often it's just kind of getting it to work with.

the harness that's wrapping around you so that you can take advantage of that. I don't know if we're going to dabble in that long term or not. That might be best addressed by one of the big technical clothing brand companies through a collaboration or something like that. But I certainly think you can build a system that can keep you very warm and very moist, cold conditions that works really well with what's out there right now. You just have to be conscious about

Dan Johnson (44:42.188)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Leach (45:09.486)
Um, what's getting compressed and what's not with your insulating layers. Um, so again, I'm Reno base layers. wear, uh, I wear like, so like the coldest day in Michigan, whatever I'm going out in a morning hunt super early, I get in an hour and a half before light here because of the pressure and the way the deer behave. So I'm sitting in the dark and the soup, the coldest part of the 24 hour period, you know, not moving, um, heavyweight Reno base layers. I wear a Berber fleece pant over that. And then I'm down over top of that stuff.

Dan Johnson (45:12.438)
Okay. Gotcha.

Kevin Leach (45:39.55)
and on my bottoms the down is getting compressed, but I've got enough stuff underneath that area on my butt that gets compressed, it still insulates well enough for me, and that's how I stay as streamlined and lightweight as possible. And I never, I use the Ranger 22, so it's not a huge pack, and I never feel like I don't have enough space, even on the coldest days. So I think feet is probably one thing that...

You know, there could be some enhancements with what's out there. Some of the things that I do, I don't know, it's a little bit different than what's out there. That's something we might be able to work on, because that's a lot simpler than the bigger clothing pieces. But keeping your feet warm is a big deal, especially for a mobile guy, because they're just moving so much and then they're not. So it's kind of like mountain hunting, but you got to be quiet and stationary when you're stationary and can't move. So, yeah.

Dan Johnson (46:19.48)
Thank

Yeah.

Dan Johnson (46:35.958)
Right, right, okay.

Kevin Leach (46:37.838)
Sorry, it's a long ramble, but that's kind of very things there. Yeah.

Dan Johnson (46:39.545)
No, it's all good. It's all good. Okay, outside of that, 2025, another year, you guys got anything exciting coming? Maybe you can't tell us the whole story, but maybe you can tell us a little bit about what's maybe coming from you guys or a problem or a market you're gonna address.

Kevin Leach (47:00.11)
Yeah, I mean some of longer term horizon stuff I probably won't touch on but you know, we've got some new product coming out this year I mentioned last year was a big year for us in terms of new product new categories of product that we've never had options for At latitude this year. We're really kind of rounding out several of those areas with some new sizes new colors So we do have quite a bit of new product, you know coming this year

maybe not as outside of the method three launch. You know, it's really not any new categories per se for us, but you know, we are doing, we talked about the profile platform. We are doing an XL version of that. That's about 35 % larger. It's like three inches wider, two inches deeper off the tree. You know, it's only weighs an additional pound. So it's a, it's a really big dance floor. So guys that have liked the packability of the profile, but want more space.

generally speaking in their saddle platform, we're gonna finally have an option for those people. We've never had an XL platform in the past. I mentioned the new backpack. All the backpacks are gonna be available in a bunch of colors. The 11 and the 22, there's gonna be five different colors. Three solids, a couple camos, tan, gray, ranger green, the Mossy Oak Bottomland, the ranger, or excuse me, the Realtree original.

So a lot of different new colors and sizes. A couple other, we've had a couple new accessories come out kind of late in the year and they'll continue to be available here as really a 25 release. But we have some cool new suspenders if you're the type of individual that likes to carry a lot of gear on the MOLLE system of your saddle. Even, know, maybe it's an early season thing. You just don't want to wear a pack. We have found that we,

We don't really like to use suspenders to prevent the saddle from falling down on its own. We feel like our rope belt design, our feature addresses that, but it has been nice to be able to kind of take the weight off your hips and kind of move it up onto your shoulders or at least share that load. So Matt came up with a really cool new suspender product that has a quick adjust, height adjustment right on the hips. So you can wear that saddle and kind of.

Dan Johnson (49:08.567)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Leach (49:17.934)
up high on the top of your hip area, but when you get up in the tree, you can drop the harness down underneath your butt. You're not messing with adjustments up around your shoulders. That's kind of, that part is set. So you've got some quick adjust stuff and then they also integrate with kind of a streamlined way to hold your binos up in the tree. So, that's a cool new product, that you'll see from us this year. And then the one, the one other one that I'm really excited about that's, will be released this upcoming summer. It's something that we've been working on for a couple of years now.

Dan Johnson (49:25.814)
Right.

Kevin Leach (49:47.988)
is we've got a next generation saddle pouch. We're calling it our operator pouches and we'll have it in a couple different sizes, but you know, traditionally we've had the mesh drawstring style dump pouches that, all of our competitors have them as well. It's kind of the most common way to kind of carry gear on your hips with a saddle. And those are great for doing that. They're lightweight, they're good price, they're simple, but kind of takes two hands to get things in and out of them. They can be a little bit floppy when you're walking around, if you really have them loaded up.

Dan Johnson (49:59.641)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Leach (50:17.454)
So we've got a new pouch that is a much more rigid design. It sits really nice on your hip when you're walking around. But the big thing about it that really kind of changes the experience at the tree is it's single hand open and close operation, eyes closed. So functionally, there's a lot of similarities with like a vinyl harness. It doesn't use magnets though, so there's going to be, you know, that screws up your compass or anything like that. You don't have to worry about that. But

Dan Johnson (50:39.948)
Right.

Kevin Leach (50:46.946)
Functionally, there's gonna be a quick kind of mailbox style opening close on the top. That is just one hand super fast I've been using it for two years. It totally kind of changes the experience at the tree. I'm really excited about that one I think people are gonna really love that one and that'll be available later this summer as well. So Yeah

Dan Johnson (51:07.304)
Awesome, awesome. Well, great talking with you, man. Sounds like you guys are a foot on the gas over there at latitude and looking forward to seeing more of what you guys put out. And I always I always talk with Aaron Blysee of the Fall Podcast. He sometimes I talk with him on the Nine Finger Chronicle side of things and whatnot. And he's always sharing about what you guys got going on over there as well. So.

Congratulations as far as getting to where you're at today and looking forward to seeing what you guys have coming out in the near future. So thanks for taking time out of your day and hopping on, man.

Kevin Leach (51:48.216)
Yeah, Dan, thank you very much for having me. I love talking about this stuff. I mean, we love talking gear and working with customers and getting feedback. So, appreciate the conversation today and happy to come on any time. So, thank you.

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