Making A Name In The Hunting Industry

Show Notes

On this episode of The Nomadic Outdoorsman Dan talks with Charmaine Leath, an outdoorswoman whose passion for the outdoors led her to make a name for herself in the outdoor industry and has allowed her to hunt and fish all over the world.

Charmaine is based out of Southwest Colorado but hunts and fishes worldwide. She grew up in a small oilfield town in New Mexico, spending most of her childhood with horses and in the outdoors hunting, fishing, and camping. After graduating she moved around the country working as a medical aesthetician and fiddled with photography. She would make yearly tips home to hunt and fish with her dad but ended up settling down in a small country town in Colorado in her late 20s which is when she really dove deep into making her outdoor dreams come true.

Charmaine didn’t come from money and didn’t have an “in” in the outdoor industry. Despite not having a connection she dove in feet first. She already had an eye and love for photography and she wanted to partner and represent companies whose passion and desire she could align with and whose gear and values matched hers. Her first partnership was with SKRE Gear and from there she continued to grow in the outdoors gaining more brands, sponsorships, traveling and hunting more and working expos and events.

Show Transcript

Dan Matthews: [00:00:00] All right guys. Welcome to today's show and joining me on the show today, I've got a woman who has made a name for herself in the outdoor space over the last few years, and she loves to travel and hunt and fish. And I just can't wait to hear about her adventures, all of her stories, and just see how this is all come about because a lot of people ask the question like, how do I get in the outdoor space?

How do I get to do this full time? And so I'm excited to chat with her and hear a little bit of that background. Before we dive into that conversation though, I want to make you aware of a few things. One, I'm gonna be in Superior Wisconsin for Beas, and that is July 27th through the 30th, you can get an all access weekend pass for 99 bucks, and I understand it to be the world's largest outdoor archery and music festival.

And so I'm super pumped about that. If you want to be a guest, there is a link in my link tree. Go check that out. Punch in your information, [00:01:00] answer a couple questions. We'll see if it's a good fit, but I'm gonna be hanging out there the whole time, making cool connections, hopefully meeting up with some old friends.

So if you want to join, go and check that out. Also, at that event, they've got six 3D archery courses. They've got a ton of giveaways. They've got live concerts all weekend. They've got a vendor village and food trucks. They've got hunting celebrities. Like it's gonna be amazing. This is my first year going to it, and I cannot wait.

Anytime I can get back into my home. State of Wisconsin is a good time, but there's lakes all around. Maybe I could get in some jet skiing or some fishing. Man, I'm getting more and more pumped, but it is coming up. We're like a month away from it. So if you're interested, go sign up for Bo Fest and also go fill out that form if you'd like to be a guest live at concert or live at the event on the podcast.

That's all I got though. So without any more, let's jump into this episode with Charmaine.[00:02:00]

Like he was doing things that were just badass. That was one of the coolest moments of my life. I was

Charmaine Leath: really scared, but knowing that Dan had the gun, I did have the rifle, like we would be Okay.

Dan Matthews: All right guys. Welcome to today's show. Today I am joined by Charmaine Lee. Thanks for hopping on. I'm really excited about this conversation. Thanks. Me too. I am. So you grew up in New Mexico, is that right?

Charmaine Leath: Yep. So I grew up in the middle of nowhere in a small oil filled

Dan Matthews: town. Nice. New Mexico is a land of opportunity, although most of the time if you drive through it, you don't get to see the outdoor opportunities that are there.

I hear from people all the time, like that is a destination spot for big game hunting. In fact, my first ever, I guess my first ever outdoor adventure was there [00:03:00] this year looking for elk antlers. And we actually found quite a few, saw a ton of sign, and I'm like, I need to start figuring out how to hunt here.

Charmaine Leath: Yep. I swear every time I go out there, shed hunting. Cuz I live in Colorado now, I'm just blown away by the sign and the smell of elk, like literally everywhere. It's wild to me and it's still, it's so hard for me to draw it too. So I go here and I, shed hunt with my dad all the time and hunt with him and everything, but I can't get a dang tag to save my life.

Dan Matthews: Yeah. And so the oilfield town, were you close to Mace's and stuff like that? That's the area that we were in. We were in northwest New Mexico when we went shed hunting this year. No. So

Charmaine Leath: I grew up, so where I live right now in southwest Colorado, where I grew up is probably an hour and a half away.

Okay. And it was literally in the country, it probably took 30 minutes to actually get to town. So there's nothing around, all we had to do was be outside.

Dan Matthews: Yeah. No, that's [00:04:00] awesome though. I grew up in a farming town in Wisconsin. It was nothing but dairy farms all over. Certain times of the year you go outside, you can't smell anything but manure.

But what we had to do was be outside. We would go outside and chase squirrels and songbirds with our BB gun, which probably wasn't legal at that point, but we were little kids and we had our little pump BB guns and we thought it was the greatest thing ever. But being forced to go outside and experience that.

And when you grow up doing that for fun, it just becomes a passion that you can't shake. Yep.

Charmaine Leath: You can't shake that one. You just have to go outside of your box to keep yourself busy at that age. Yeah. Just so different in the world we live in now than the way children grow up.

Dan Matthews: How did, being outside obviously played a big part in it, but how did you get into actually going out and hunting and pursuing game and fish?

Charmaine Leath: So my dad loves the outdoors. He is loved the outdoors his entire life and it, that's how it sprouted. [00:05:00] So everything that we did was camping, fishing, hunting, and that was his love. And now it's my love. And I've gotta say one of my first memories, hunting in general, I was probably four or five I believe, in New Mexico.

My dad had gotten a MUE down and the sun was setting in New Mexico, and I remember tracking the blood on little fall leaves. And I remember it just so vividly. It's a memory that I will never forget, and it really sparked the outdoor adventure throughout my life.

Dan Matthews: Yeah, getting involved with that, especially with someone that you look up to, you're just like, I wanna be like that.

I want to do that. I want to go back and experience that again. From there. Did you start getting hunting tags when you were young or when did the. When did the hunting for yourself begin?

Charmaine Leath: So I really don't remember a whole lot of my childhood. That's one vivid memory that I remember and a few other outdoorsy [00:06:00] ones, but I don't remember really hunting a whole lot until probably my high school years.

And, dad would take me out. We'd fished all the time. We probably fished more than hunted really. And then I really started branching off myself in my twenties. So I still, I, after high school I moved and I lived across the country in different places and I would always come home to do fishing or hunting trips with dad.

And then, when I came home and settled down in Colorado was really when I started digging into hunting and fishing, pretty much year round. So I would say it just grew over time and I've learned so much from my dad every single year. And now I just can go out there by

Dan Matthews: myself. Yeah, that makes sense.

When when did you move to Colorado and start that transition of hunting here and there to hunting year-round?

Charmaine Leath: So when I graduated high school, I moved to Colorado for about a year or so, and then I traveled and then I moved back and settled down probably about six years ago, five or six years ago.[00:07:00]

And that's when and the place that we live is really small. It's remote. There's one light in the town. Pretty much anything to do is gonna be outdoors. So it was like I landed in the place that I needed to

Dan Matthews: bes. Cool. What what does your hunting look like now? Actually before we dive into that, talk about what you do now because you've got sponsorships, you've built a name for yourself in the outdoor industry, and I would imagine you're working towards just, continuing to blow up and doing this nonstop all the time.

Newer opportunities. Making those connections that get you cool opportunities. Why don't you talk about that? So that's the

Charmaine Leath: goal. You know what I've dove into started last year actually. Last fall and forever, I've always said, I wish I dream. I wanna do this. And I just never pulled the trigger until one day last fall.

I was like, that's it, I'm doing it. I'm just jumping in both feet. I'm gonna get sponsorships, I'm gonna be pro [00:08:00] team, and I'm gonna grow and thrive and do exactly what I love and my family too. It's given us a lot of opportunity. So now I am a pro team athlete with Scre Gear. They're one of my number one companies that I actually started out with and I grew to love their team.

So it's not just the gear, it's the people that I work with as well. So I'll back up just a little bit. What people call me is like an outdoor influencer or public figure. Yeah. But, so I'm with Street Gear, I wear their gear in the field and everything. And I'm with Rockman waterproof dirty Duck Coffee on Target Hunt, which is a nutritional company.

G P o Optics is my optic company. And then I've got Velvet Antler Technologies and I think that's it. Oh, Slayer calls. So those are my elk and my Turkey calls that I use. And really, it just started where I started applying to these programs with companies that I truly believed in. I've started with bigger companies and [00:09:00] just found out that you're not real, really.

You're like another cow in the herd. And so I really tried to focus on people that I could pick up the phone and talk to, that I could schedule a video call anytime I had questions and that I could grow with, but they would also support me in that. So the companies that I represent are really ones that I value our relationship and what they provide gear wise.

And it just sparked from there. I applied for pro teams and I started creating content for them, and I've just grown immensely in that cycle, where now I'm an athlete with a lot of them and the opportunities are really endless. It's crazy to me that like I would've never imagined being in this place right now.

Yeah, I would not imagine. So now it's like I get to hunt with some of these people sponsored for some of the stuff, and I work a lot of expos and events. So anybody that is watching or hearing this, you may see me at. A hunting event or an expo or attack event in the future. So I'm really living my [00:10:00] dream and I just really can't believe it that I'm in this place.


Dan Matthews: but that's how I got started. Yeah. It's such a cool feeling too, because a lot of people will look at you as an outdoor influencer and be like, oh my gosh, I can't go up and say hi. Or I'm not going to send her a message on Instagram. And I tell people all the time when they come up to me in public or at Bass Pro or wherever we are, I'm like, I'm an everyday guy.

I, I had a conversation with one person and they're like, dude, oh my gosh, I can't believe you're here. And for me, that's so weird to hear, right? I'm like I'm nobody. I'm just Dan Matthews. And I remember I told one guy, I go, I literally drove here in my old beat up Toyota. I fed pigs this morning when I woke up.

Like I went and fed the pigs and collected chicken eggs. That's me. I'm very approachable. You can come hang out. And I'm sure, coming from humble beginnings, coming from somewhere that like you weren't known, you weren't a popular figure in the space to now it's, I'm sure it's kinda [00:11:00] weird still for people to come up and be like, oh my gosh, I know you.

Charmaine Leath: Yeah, the last tech event, the archery challenge in Pennsylvania. I had a people come up to me and they're like, oh my gosh, I've seen you on TikTok everywhere. And I'm like, really? Then I feel like I'm doing something right. Yeah. Cause the goal is for people to know who I am and what I represent and doing what I love.

And it's funny that you say that. So one of the first gentleman that I spoke with in the industry thought I came off as snobby. And I was like, what? I'm the easiest person to talk to. Just tell me why you thought that. And he was like it just kinda seemed like you came from money or you hadn't in, in the outdoor industry, that just got you to where you are now.

And I tr I want people to understand that. I built myself up. I didn't come from money and I don't know anybody in the industry. So I, it's very humbling when people do say something in public. Yeah. Cause I'm like, this is where I imagined to be and I started from nothing. So it's very

Dan Matthews: humbling.

Yeah. Did, so [00:12:00] did you have this dream for a while? Or did you say one day like, Hey, I'm just gonna do this. So it's

Charmaine Leath: always been a dream, like, how could I be paid to do what I love? Yeah. How could I be noticed? Or people know who I am representing women and youth in the outdoors. And I always told like my husband and my dad, I wish I could do that.

I wanna be like Kendall Jones in a way, and one day I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna do everything possible to try to make that happen. And here I am.

Dan Matthews: Yeah. That's cool. That's, it's probably one of the most common questions I get. Like, how do I make a name for myself in the outdoor industry?

What would you give to listeners as advice? Would you tell 'em to go about it the same way that you did, find those companies that you trust and can grow with or what would you maybe tell a listener who wants to get into it or tell yourself? At the beginning, if you could go back and talk to yourself how should you go about it?

So in the world that

Charmaine Leath: we live in right now, media is [00:13:00] everything. It is everything in the outdoor industry and getting noticed. So the number one goal that I have learned is that companies, you want companies to notice you. And I know that's a broad term, but find those companies that you wanna be a part of and that you believe in.

And your goal is to get noticed by these people. And what I'm saying is creating content that is taking pictures making reels, maybe YouTube channel of what you love doing and tagging these people, putting their hashtags. The more you create in today's world, the more you're gonna be seen by them and other companies.

It's so important. In all of my partnerships, that is one of the main things with them is that everybody wants content. Yep. So me being a photographer, I get to. Do what I love in the photography world, but also with the companies that I enjoy. So really telling people to put yourself out there. Just do the content, take the photos, tag people, [00:14:00] and just grow.

That's how I have an athlete position with screens that I just continue to post their content and my content of them. And that's where I am today with them. Honestly. It's just the world we

Dan Matthews: live in. Yeah. Yeah. Social media, I feel like it gets overlooked a lot by hunting companies. For whatever reason, hunting companies seem to be the last to adopt certain technologies or, trends going on in society.

It's Hey, this is how we do things. You get a show on pursuit or outdoor channel and if you're not one of those guys, like maybe we're not gonna have the conversation. But like you said, talking to some of these companies that you're gonna grow with and that do notice you. The benefit there is that you can walk through, how your social media has impacted you and helped you grow over the years.

I have those conversations almost every week. Definitely. Every time I go to a show like, Hey, TikTok, that's what kind of blew up for me. And I would've never thought that TikTok was gonna be the [00:15:00] thing. My wife was like, you need a TikTok account. And I'm like, isn't that a bunch of 16 year old girls doing trendy dances?

I'm gonna be the creepy 35 year old guy that's got a TikTok. And she's no, I'm telling you, promote your podcast on it. Share your story, make funny content, and it's gonna work out. And sure enough, it did. But if you're not willing to step outta your comfort zone, it might not take off.

And it's

Charmaine Leath: definitely about stepping out of your comfort zone. I even have some other pro team members that's I could never stand in front of a camera. I'm like, you'll get used to it. It just takes practice. But that's what they want. Yeah, it really is. And I've gotten. Plenty. I've gotten several partnerships from TikTok, as ridiculous as that sounds.

Yeah. But it's true.

Dan Matthews: Yeah, it works for sure. So the photography side of things, did you start out, how long has that been going on? Were you doing photography long before all of this and how did you use that photography?

Charmaine Leath: So I have done photography [00:16:00] for like families, weddings, headshots, stuff like that for years.

And I've always really loved it. But it I got so busy doing that kind of stuff that took the love and the joy out of it honestly. Yeah. And so I kinda stopped doing that as much and really dug into the outdoor realm of it. So it's like taking pictures of products and taking pictures of me in the field or my family wearing this stuff.

And it's created that love again for photography. So now I get to use it in my content now. And I've steered a little bit less from taking pictures of

Dan Matthews: people. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. When you can take a skill that you've acquired or built over the years and then apply it to the thing that you truly do love it no longer probably feels as much like work. It's Hey, this is my passion. This is what I like to do. And then you've already got the skillset to, to help propel you forward.

Charmaine Leath: Totally. That was a bonus that I could use that content, because I do have, some companies have told me that, like they have these ambassadors or pro team and they'll just [00:17:00] send them like this really crappy iPhone video.

Yeah. And so they're really grateful when somebody actually somewhat knows what they're doing. So it's been a bonus. It's been a good thing for me. Honestly.

Dan Matthews: That's good that, that's my biggest problem is the photo and video side of things. I can do everything on an iPhone. I keep buying all of these cool toys that I have no idea how to use.

Like drones and Cam, like we bought a DS l R camera, I think we were in Utah last year and we're like, you know what, we're just gonna go get a really good camera. So we went and got one, a good friend recommended one, and we got there and I was like, let's just get the next level up. And then I'm like, I still dunno how to use it.

My wife has figured it out because she's a wizard with everything. She puts her mind to something and does it. But for me, I'm like, I'm the guy in the tree with three GoPros or tactic cams and a camera arm and the camera and the deer comes in and I'm just like, [00:18:00] push it all out of the way.

Shoot the deer. And my wife's did you get any pictures or video? I'm like, I took a picture with my iPhone after I got the deer and she's like, why do we have this equipment? And so that's definitely the thing now that I need to get used to. And I have been picking up the camera a lot more just on everyday outings because I know that it's going to translate to in the field.

I'm gonna go, Hey, you know what? I should probably get this on camera.

Charmaine Leath: Yep. It's a learning curve. Especially when you're shooting on manual, you're like the lighting settings and on the shutter speed, it's like, what? Yeah, it did take me a little bit to switch on over, but yeah, it's worth it in

Dan Matthews: sense.

It definitely is. And like you said, if it can get you better partnerships or get you noticed quicker, if people are like, Hey, we don't get content like this from our partners. If you can set yourself up or set yourself apart in that way, it's probably very beneficial. Yep. Absolutely is. So let's talk about some fun stuff now.

We got your [00:19:00] history out of the way. Talk about your hunts. Because from the sound of it, you're going all over. It went from a couple times a year fishing and hunting with your dad to now going all over the place, getting really cool adventures. Maybe share, let's start with your passion.

What is the one game animal that if I said, Hey, this is all you can hunt the rest of your life, what would that be?

Charmaine Leath: 1000%? It'd be elk. Okay. Without a doubt. Elk.

Dan Matthews: What is it about them?

Charmaine Leath: Oh my gosh. I still will pull over the side of the road if I see elk. It's a vibe. I don't know. And then when they're in the rut, just hearing them is just it's a different feeling.

It's like your heart is gonna fall out. It's so cool. And just the way they act and the big old herd and when you wake up in the field and it's just, it's so rewarding. And I. I try to tell people like, I'm not a trophy hunter, y'all. I'm not. [00:20:00] I am. I'm filling my freezer kind of person. And elk is a lot of meat and it's the best meat.

And I don't know what it is about elk even finding their sheds. It's just Have you ever hunted

Dan Matthews: elk before? I have. And I've gotta say the shed hunting thing. I've got the bug now. The first brown antler I picked up, I was like, oh my gosh, I've tried to whitetail shed hunt for so long. And I found, I think I found two sheds actually going way back.

Elementary school. I had a dog that brought home a shed just randomly, like I walked outside and it's chewing on a three point whitetail side, and I'm like, what in the world? This is cool. Started playing with it and then never really thought about it. And I've talked to so many people on the podcast that are really into shed hunting.

They're like, dude, Come late winter, start of spring, we're out there looking for antlers. And I'm like, yeah, but like you just walk around and hope to find one. And they're like, [00:21:00] no, dude, you don't understand. You pick one up and it's like magic. And I'm like, really? And sure enough, I got out there and I'm like's a weird feeling.

And I think I've said it on the podcast before, people talk about holding gold and how there's like a weird deal with it. I don't think I've ever held gold in my life, but with an elk antler or a deer antler, as soon as I pick that up, it's just like this weird connection. I feel like I'm gonna be nerdy and do a Lord of the Rings reference, but like the ring of power, like holding it, like it's just amazing.

I don't know what it is about it. And now I'm hooked. And so like when I go out, if I go out and check trail cameras or do anything on the property, I just do a quick walk through the woods in hopes that I find something laying on the ground. Yep. My

Charmaine Leath: dad and I call it picking up pieces of gold.

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Charmaine Leath: Yeah, we literally call it that. It is, it's rewarding and it's fun. It's a fun thing to go with the kids. Like my stepdaughter's nine, my daughter is four. And it's they're just as excited when they find them. It's a cool game for them too.

Dan Matthews: Oh, I'm sure. I've got a dog in training right now in Texas and they primarily train for [00:23:00] waterfowl and dove.

But I was like, Hey, can you like incorporate some shed training into that? Because I think that would be the coolest thing. I like using dogs for whatever I can. And so to have a dog out there with me just walking through the woods with my dog and maybe my son and daughter or make it a whole family thing and just go out there and it's like a, the best Easter egg hunt ever.

Charmaine Leath: And it is. Have you ever looked at how much you can make off of those though if you don't keep them? I unfortunately keep like all of mine.

Dan Matthews: I'm not, I'm not gonna dive down that hole. I'm just gonna ignore all of the prices. No, cause I've heard about it. I talked to a guy, so actually in your neck of the woods.

His name's Steven Walker and super awesome dude. He took us out. He's the one who took us to New Mexico and he's finding, I think one year they found like 750 sheds. And yeah, he's just finding them all the time and he is oh yeah, we're out in the mountains of New Mexico. And I show him this brown shed and my first one that I found, and [00:24:00] he's oh, yeah, dude, you could get, I can't remember what he said.

We we found the match to it. And he is oh yeah, that's $180 set. And I'm like, it's true. I'm glad that I'm in a financial position to where I'm not like, oh, I'm selling this for sure. I know. Just, I don't think I'll ever sell one. I really don't. I can't, there's something about it. I'm like, really?

For 180 bucks it'd be nice to have the money. It might be cool, but. I couldn't replace them,

Charmaine Leath: no. And I do the same thing. It's so funny. I literally have kept, I'm looking at them on my walls right now because I literally have them everywhere. But cool story about that. So growing up, my dad used to, shed hunt a ton and everything that he would get, he would sell and he would take the family on a family vacation.

So every year with his earnings, it probably didn't cover all of it, a good portion. Yeah. We would usually go to Mexico and we'd go to the beach because dad would go shed hunting. So I know, right? That's, and nowadays it's worth like [00:25:00] triple what he used to

Dan Matthews: make off of it. Oh, yeah. And I hear stories about people who go out.

In fact, my brother, I told him the same thing. I was like, dude, you can sell that stuff. And he's dude, I'm not selling any of it. After my shed hunt, he said, Hey, I'm gonna go out. Me and my buddy, Ezra and his little sister, were just gonna go out and look. And he's in Northern Colorado, near Steamboat.

And. In the first day, I'm gonna get these numbers wrong, in the first day, they were out there like 30 seconds. They said, we literally just found a spot online that was public land. We pulled up, there was a gate, we had to jump over the gate. And he goes, Ezra looked at me and he goes, Hey, is this a shed?

And he walked over and he is 30 seconds in, we found a mule deer antler. And then we found another one right next to it. And so he's texting me and he's dude, we literally just found some in the first minute, by the end of, I think an hour and a half [00:26:00] or two hours out there, they had found nine.

And I'm like, dude, this doesn't happen, man. Like I was just out with a pro and we were busting our butts for three days looking. And you guys found like a third as many as we did in an hour and a half. He's gone out two more times since in the same area, and I think he's up to 27 or 28 sheds. He's like a total of nine hours out there.

And we found that many sheds and so he keeps telling me, he is you gotta get up here and find some with me. But he's, I was like, dude, you can make money on 'em. He's dude, I don't need money that bad. These things are awesome.

Charmaine Leath: They are so awesome. But yeah, it's deceiving, like we'll go out and hike four miles and we may find one.

Yeah, it's luck of

Dan Matthews: the draw. The nice thing is like out there Steven was telling me we didn't get into a spot like this, but he said sometimes you'll get into a spot where if you find one or two, you just need to scan the whole area because it might be a bachelor group that dropped and you might find a [00:27:00] whole pile of them in a small area.

Have you experienced that yet? No. No, but that was such a depressing No,

Charmaine Leath: it's depressing. No, but like my dad always said, if you find one, shed make sure you check all around that area because there's a lot of the times they'll lose their other one. Yeah. Cause it's bothering them so much that they'll rub it off in the same area.

So I've had that happen to me. Yeah. But not like a mother load.

Dan Matthews: I want to get into one of those bachelor groups and I've seen it. I saw, I think it was a TikTok post, but it was in Yellowstone, so they can't pick 'em up, but they were on a hike and it was everywhere they turned, there were just ma match sets way up on this high mountain meadow and they were huge.

And I was like, oh my gosh. Those guys just made out like bandits. And a friend of mine saw the video. He is that was actually in Yellowstone. They didn't put it in the video, but it was Yellowstone. They couldn't pick any of 'em up. I'm like, I'm never hiking around Yellowstone. No. If I go out there and I find a moose paddle that I can't touch.[00:28:00]

Oh I would dream about that for years. Yeah.

Charmaine Leath: I wonder if you can do it in Estes.

Dan Matthews: No, you can't. You can't. You there. I've seen them. I always bring my like binos or my spotter scope when I go to Estes and we've actually got some pretty cool video of elk right up against the road running hard.

But I spotted two sheds out there I think, and I talked to a park ranger and I was like, dude, there's sheds out there. Can we go get them? He's absolutely not. Like you cannot pick them up around here. He's as soon as you get outta the park, if you see some that's on public land, you can, or if you see them on private, you've gotta get permission.

But most of those elk are wintering in the park because, they're totally protected there. It's like

Charmaine Leath: they're dropping their sheds. What are y'all gonna do with those?

Dan Matthews: Oh yeah I'm sure they probably put 'em up in, in the gift shops or in one of the lodges or something like that. But I get it.

You don't want to disperse the elk, especially if they're still hanging out in the area. But [00:29:00] yeah, it's just a shame. I hope they don't just sit there and get chalk. I hope some, I hope they have a team of people. I'd volunteer for that team. Even if I didn't get to keep 'em, I'd go help pick up elk sheds out there.


Charmaine Leath: it'd be some good content.

Dan Matthews: Yeah, it really would. To answer your question, cuz I know I just ran down a trail on shed hunting. I have elk hunted. I've gone out, let's see, I think I've had four tags, three for the same unit. Got three bulls in that same unit. But they've all been with a rifle. I have yet to experience like rudd bulls.

Now I say that I've heard them bugling, I've seen them sparring, but I've never seen like the hot and heavy action of the elk rut. And so that's something all of my podcast guests tell me. They're like, dude, you gotta get out there with a bow. You gotta go chase them when they're just firing off and you can call them in.

It is

Charmaine Leath: fire. And I apply for New Mexico every year [00:30:00] bowl in the rut, and it's impossible. It's so hard to get Someday I'll get it and it's gonna be epic. But I just feel like with elk hunting, my experiences are like a story of a lifetime. Yeah. You can't really say that. There's some good stories with deer and hogs and everything else that I've hunted, but it's, there's a different priceless story with elk hunting that has brought me every single time I go.

Yeah. So maybe that's another reason why I love it the most too.

Dan Matthews: Yeah. Is, are you putting in for a bunch of different states for elk now?

Charmaine Leath: So I put in for a bunch of different states for a variety like antelope, moose, elk, deer Turkey. I think that's it. Yeah. But we'll we'll do some, I've never done whitetail and that is gonna be something I'll be doing a couple of times this year.

Nice. But I didn't draw, I didn't draw for anything. I haven't heard about Wyoming quite yet, but I haven't draw. I could get an over the counter tag in Colorado, thank [00:31:00] goodness. Yeah. But that's all I've gotten for

Dan Matthews: elk. Okay. Are you are you primarily hunting with a bow or a rifle or a combination?

Charmaine Leath: So typically it's a combination. Here in Colorado a lot of things are draw for, actually I think everything now Bo is draw. But deer archery is one of my favorite hunts and I didn't get it this year. And I just like that it's long There are deer everywhere and it's just a fun hunt. Yeah. So for the first time, I'm gonna hunt whitetail this year.

Nice and nice, Missouri and Ohio. So that'll be a new experience. Like here in Colorado, we don't really hunt in a blind or in the trees or anything like that. So this will be completely new to me and I'm super excited

Dan Matthews: about it. It's fun. I will say, and I'm not trying to like, scare you off of it sitting in a tree after being out west, it just feels different.

I still love it. It's what I grew up doing. But like, when you have that go, and you're I've gotta sit [00:32:00] here and hope they show up. It just doesn't feel the same. I'm now to the point where I look at the neighbor's field or I look at a woodlot across the road and I'm like, man, I just want to know what's happening in there.

I want to climb down. I want to take my saddle out of the tree and just go see what that's about. And with whitetail, People do it different places, but like Missouri, Ohio, typically it's like you hang out there because you've got good intel that they're gonna come through. And hopefully they do. But it can also change in a second, yeah. You can be sitting there and when people say every minute's different, like it happened to me this year. I was sitting there, I'd only been in the tree for 30 minutes and all of a sudden I hear a twig snap and it wasn't a squirrel. You can tell the difference between a squirrel and a deer when they're walking through the woods and you hear it and it's just game on.

I wasn't expecting this. Yep.

Charmaine Leath: I've had a few experiences like that for sure. But this new, this will be a new one for me [00:33:00] and I think I'm gonna bow hunt that one. So to answer your question, I do a mixture. Yeah. Most of my elk I rifle hunt. I'm still trying to get that buckle rut in New Mexico whenever I do, and then Grouse and Turkey, I'll do a mixture of bow or shotgun.

And honestly, it depends also if I have like my daughter with me, yeah, she's almost four and she goes on a lot of my hunts. And so if she's with me, I'm going with a bow. If she's not with me, I'll pick one or the other. Yeah. But I have killed all or harvested all of my elk with

Dan Matthews: a rifle.

Okay. What are you shooting?

Charmaine Leath: I've got a two 70 Remington, which has sentimental value also. It was my dad's. Yeah. I kinda just, he's okay, I'm gonna use this and now I use it for everything. I don't even know if he's touched that gun since I came into the picture more hunting.

Dan Matthews: So was that like a gift to you or did you just confiscate it and say I like shooting this, I'm gonna use it.

Charmaine Leath: Yeah, I think he he bought a nice Best of the [00:34:00] west long range guns. Oh, nice. We both do use, but so he steered away from the one that I use all the time.

Dan Matthews: Yeah, that's A two 70 s are awesome. They are of, back in the day everybody had a 30 out six or a two 70. Now there's a bunch of cartridges that maybe at one point were wildcat rounds that have become more popular.

But two s, my buddy Shawn, that's basically all he hunts with. He's dude, I have no reason to switch from it. I think I'm gonna use it forever.

Charmaine Leath: Yeah. And it's funny, a lot of the people that I've worked with in the industry are bow hunters. I'm kinda like the odd one out that actually uses a gun now.

Yeah. And I dunno if it's like the place that I'm in or the companies that I'm with, but I love my rifle. I love my bow too, I was talking to a gentleman the other day and it really made me think about bow hunting differently. That, when you shoot with a gun, it takes away from the moment because you're looking through a scope the whole time and then the [00:35:00] recoil and the sound of the rifle takes you out of that place.

Yeah. But when you're shooting with a bow, the bow is like you hear and you see all of it. Yeah. You feel it all, you view it all, you watch it all happen. And so that, that kind of made me change my mind that maybe I wanna start bow hunting a little bit more because he's right. There were a few times that I shot stuff with my two 70 and was like, I don't really know.

I really blanked it all out after it. Yeah. I shot it,

Dan Matthews: yeah. It's like getting jarred awake from a dream, all of a sudden it's boom, there's so much happening. All of your senses are going off. Whereas with a bow, it's just whether you're trigger or thumb or tension, just kinda lets go and you're still present.

There's nothing, there's no like boom moment that takes you out of the experience. So I get that. I've never heard it put that way, but that makes a lot of sense.

Charmaine Leath: Me neither. But it was eyeopening, but[00:36:00] I'll still hunt with a rifle. Yeah. It's hard to get archery tags around here,

Dan Matthews: yeah. Yeah. I think that there's a trend going on right now that the harder it is, the more successful of a hunter you are. Maybe. I do hear a lot of people dude, I switched. I don't hunt with a rifle anymore. It's all bow. The challenge is greater. And I'm like, I get that. But I also love shooting, like I just like shooting all the time, whether it's my bow or going out to the rain, shooting my rifle, planking, steel as far as I can possibly poke.

And the opportunities, like you said, if archery tags are hard to get, I'm not gonna hold out just to say that I got one with my bow. Like I wanna be in the woods as much as I can. And that's also why I get over the counter tags. A lot of places I'm putting in for sure, for a number of states, hoping that one day I get that trophy unit.

Just more action, bigger animals. But at the same time, I'm not gonna [00:37:00] give up 10 years of hunting just to get that. If I can go out and fight the public crowd, be on public land, maybe not see as many animals just being out in the woods or on the mountain. It's worth it to me to still be out every year versus holding out for that once in a lifetime hunt.

Charmaine Leath: Yep. Absolutely. I feel the same way. And it's like I had said before, we're here to fill the freezer as well. Yeah. That is our number one goal. So whatever tag we can get to try to be successful is where we're gonna go and what type of weapon we'll use.

Dan Matthews: Yeah. What have you started to hunt maybe that you didn't grow up hunting that's become a passion for you?

Charmaine Leath: I don't know if I'd call it a passion. Just kidding. I Turkey hunting, goodness gracious. Turkey is so hard. I don't know what it's, if you go watch my TikTok, you'll just see me write about these ding tongs all over the place on private property.

Dan Matthews: Private. Yep. [00:38:00]

Charmaine Leath: Yeah. Oh my gosh. It was the most frustrating season I've probably ever had, but it's that one's a new one for me that I'm really digging into.

Cause it's cool to call 'em in. Yeah. But I would love for them to be on public land where I'm hunting.

Dan Matthews: It makes sense. Turkey's, my listeners are probably sick of hearing me talk about this, but I doggone Turkey hunting so much. I'm like, Turkey hunting is for people who haven't experienced elk hunting.

Like you want to communicate with things like go elk hunting, but I get it. It's in the spring and I've given it such, I've given Turkey hunting such a hard time because I've gone out. I kill birds. I'm a terrible Turkey hunter. Like worse if someone came with me that actually is a good Turkey hunter, they'd be like, dude, why are you doing that?

That doesn't make sense. But somehow, I kill a Turkey in Missouri every year, and I'm like being all cocky about it. Not intentionally, but I'm just like, dude, they're just easy. I shoot 'em all the time. [00:39:00] And then this year I just get skunked. And it was by one Tom. I saw him. I saw this Turkey almost every day, got really close.

And probably because of my, I don't know, lack of experience, lack of calling ability, just never got a shot. And I'm like, I probably shouldn't have been talking crap about Turkey hunting for the last two years, because now everyone's gonna be like, how'd that tag soup taste?

Charmaine Leath: Tag soup. That was me. That's cool.

So I saw the, probably the biggest Toms of my entire life this season on private property. And I got videos of like literally five feet from my truck and it was just like, But again, you gotta remember that it is hunting. It's hunting.

Dan Matthews: All right, guys. If you've been listening to the podcast, I'm sure you've heard me talk about the helicopter hog hunt that I did down in Texas.

Now, I went down there [00:40:00] with rogue Texan Outfitters and Lannan and Brandon. The owners put us on the animals. We killed 150 pigs in 19 coyotes, just from the air. On top of that. We went out thermal hunting at night and got up close and personal to more hogs. I didn't have to worry about bringing guns or ammunition because all of that was provided for me, and it is to this day, the most action packed day of hunting I've ever had.

I stand by what I've said in the past, and that's that helicopter hog hunting is the funnest thing that you can do with pants on. In addition, they offer Sandhill, crane hunts and predator calling. So if you're looking for the most exciting hunt of your life and something that you're gonna want to come back and do year after year, Go check out rogue and book your hunt today.

Yeah. They're damn, they're interesting animals. And the people who get into it really get into it. Like Turkey hunters are some of the most diehard people. Traveling to Mexico to [00:41:00] hunt a bird, that's crazy to me. I would've never thought that was a thing. And they just get so into it. And then I see pictures and I'm like, all these birds are really cool.

Like the different color coloration of 'em. Just the unknown. I found out that apparently it's really hard to age a Turkey. It's not like a deer or an elk. You can't just go by beard length or spur length. There's no really good way to say this Turkey is this many years old. And I'm like, that's interesting.

And then you start finding out. Other things about the Jakes, I think one thing you can tell is their tail feathers. If their fan has a couple poking out, it's probably like a one or a two year old bird. But there's just so many weird things about Turkey hunting that I didn't think I'd find interesting that I'm slowly being converted to a Turkey hunter, although I don't want to admit it.

Charmaine Leath: I wouldn't say it's my favorite. But like you had said, it gives you more time to be outside and to [00:42:00] hunt. Yeah. So Turkey season's in the spring when there's nothing else to hunt and in the fall for me right before elk season. So it's just like another way to get out and hunt. So that's why I do it too.

Dad and I for the first time are going to South Africa at the end of the summer to hunt and that will be a total new ballgame for me and him. Never been, but I've heard good

Dan Matthews: things. Africa has been. It's always been that thing in the back of my mind, like one day, I'll do it. Just before, honestly, this was probably 15 minutes before we hopped on the call, I got a message randomly from a guy and it said, Hey, how would you feel about coming to Africa on a free hunt?

All that I ask is that we do some video while you're here and I'm like, I wasn't expecting this. Like I wasn't thinking that this would happen to any, that's like a 20 year dream, right? Like when I'm an old man, I'm gonna get over there, I'm gonna go chase after some [00:43:00] animals. But to think about actually being over there is weird.

That's a Yeah. I've never hunted outta country much less Africa.

Charmaine Leath: No. And it's funny you say that and I can't even believe that just came out of your mouth, but that's why dad and I are going, we're literally going with an outfitter that we connected with that is sending us there for me to do content and.

Take pictures and videos and reviews and it's all covered. We just, geez, had to cover like our flights and whatever animals we wanna bring back. And it was like, you, I may have cried. I'm not even joking. This is a dream hunt and especially for me to be able to take my dad. My dad has done so much for us and our family and has taught us all the things in the outdoors that I get to take him on one of his dream hunts.

Like he's never, he's hunted in Mexico for cos deer, but that's small little deer. Yeah. So this is like big

Dan Matthews: time. There's cos deer hunters that are now like, gonna hate you because they're like small little deer. Really? These are the great ghosts?

Charmaine Leath: [00:44:00] Yes. Okay. They are gnarly. I didn't go on that hunt, but this is pretty big time.

I can't even believe that the same thing happened to you. So we're going out there just for content, which is great for me too, but, oh

Dan Matthews: yeah. Do you know what you're hunting for yet?

Charmaine Leath: So they have a list of animals. So we both get to hunt the same type of animals, but multiples. Okay. So honestly, I'm not even sure.

I'd have to look at it, but a lot of the more mainstream animals, okay. But yeah, I, we still

Dan Matthews: can't even believe it. When do you go to that? So

Charmaine Leath: we are leaving at the end of the summer, so end of August through beginning of September. Which seems to be like the ideal time weather-wise.

Yeah. But man, the travel to get there is, it's

Dan Matthews: insane. Yeah. I haven't dove that far into it. Like I said, this was right before we hopped on the call and I'm like, I gotta, I don't plan trips like that. Like when we plan a trip, my wife will be like, Hey, let's go to Florida. And I'm like, okay, sweet.

And we jump in the car and we go 17 [00:45:00] hours down to Anna Maria and we hang out. Or it's Hey this summer we were in an RV for six months and we just traveled the west. And we would literally just stop in a truck stop and sleep in the rv and then wake up the next morning like, should we go to Glacier or Yellowstone or the Redwoods or where.

So to plan a trip out like this where I have to have like multiple connecting flights in different countries all over the place I need to start figuring this out now so that I'm ready three years from now or whenever it's gonna happen. Oh gosh.

Charmaine Leath: But it'll be the trip of a lifetime. You drove 17 hours.

You're probably gonna be sitting in a plane for 17 hours. It's no joke. It's nerve wracking too cause you're like, I'm gonna a new country. Is this legit? Yeah. Is everything good and safe? But, I lived in Thailand for some time and I feel like we'll make it, we'll be

Dan Matthews: all right.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You've traveled internationally, yeah, you're probably fine. I've been to [00:46:00] Mexico and Canada in Guatemala and that's it. But it's always been like very big organized trips, not something that I have to put together. And so it's a little bit intimidating, but like we talked at the beginning of the show, if you don't step outside of your comfort zone, you're gonna miss out on opportunities.

So I'm gonna have a serious conversation with my wife after this about Africa and when we're gonna go and I gotta get on the phone with this guy and just find out is this for real? Because getting a, an Instagram message doesn't always, I get those all the time and some of 'em pan out, some of 'em don't.

But this guy seems pretty serious

Charmaine Leath: yeah. And it would be a trip of a lifetime, like the memories. Yeah. I still can't even believe it's happening. Really?

Dan Matthews: Yeah. You'll have to let me know how that goes. I have almost no experience except watching hunting TV shows. About Africa. So that's exciting. That's really cool that you got that opportunity.

Yeah, thanks. I can't believe it. What's [00:47:00] what's on the agenda aside from the whitetail hunts and aside from Africa for this fall?

Charmaine Leath: So we are gonna hunt. So grouse is also one of my favorite things to hunt. Okay. They are delicious. I'm not, I'm probably gonna get a lot of hate for this, but they're probably one of my favorite wild game animals to eat.

Okay. They're they call 'em mountain chickens in my area and they're just delicious. So September will start grouse hunting and Turkey hunting. My husband drew out for deer here in Colorado, so he'll hunt deer and then I'll try to get a leftover tag and then we'll do over the counter elk rifle here.

And that is the longest elk hunt of the season. And so I'll probably go out there for two weeks. So typically I will, my husband works, full-time. I do too, but it's more from home. Yeah. So I'll go out there and scout and put up the cams and find the animals for us, and then I'll go out beforehand and get camp set [00:48:00] up and stay longer.

So that'll be a big trip. That's one that we concentrate pretty hard on. And with dad, he'll, he may get over the counter too, and you can get a bear license at the same time. So it's like you'll have, actually my husband drew for the same time as the elk hunt, so he'll get to grouse, Turkey, deer, elk, and bear hunt all in the same time.

Dang. So I know, except for you can't kill a grouse with a rifle. But

Dan Matthews: I know, I we, our hunt typically our rifle hunt, so we do second season every year because it's like the nine day hunt. Yeah. Which a lot of, apparently, a lot of units now drop that down to five days this season. Because of all the winter kill.

But I think one year grouse hunting overlapped by one day. And I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Like I want to go and hunt a grouse. And normally you go out there and we'll be on the two track or we'll be hiking in and the grass will stand there five feet from you. Yes. [00:49:00] And I'm like, listen, we're getting white meat and red meat today and we've never killed one.

And I'm like, I also don't wanna bring a shotgun and be that guy that's like shooting grouse and all the elk are scattering. And everyone's dude, yeah, you just wasted, hundreds of pounds of meat for one filet or two filets. But I do want to grow something that sounds fun. They are

Charmaine Leath: fun and they're not very intelligent.

Yeah. You probably they're literally right off the road. Or you'll be walking down a trail and they're just like, literally crossing right in front of you or you hear them fly up and you can usually find them in the trees as well. They're just one of our favorite, like just cooking the campfire at camp and it's just, maybe it's an experience all in

Dan Matthews: one.

That's cool. How, are you typically just hunting them like that while you're hunting something else? Or do you do special trips for grouse?

Charmaine Leath: Typically that is what it is. Like we're in the side by side going to scout a new area, or we're driving [00:50:00] somewhere and we see grouse or we're on a hike and we do it that way.

But this year I just told dad that, I was like, let's just go out there and just hunt grouse because they're delicious and we love them and we never do that. Yeah. So I think this year we're definitely gonna go make it apparent to do that.

Dan Matthews: That's cool. Yeah. Bird hunting. I like the, I like a lot of different bird hunting, to be honest.

Turkey is the one thing that I've always had the problem with. But like ducks, pheasant, I really want to get into pheasant quail and then hearing people who actually use. Bird dogs to go and hunt grouse and quail in the mountains. It just sounds awesome. You're in the country that you love to be in anyways, but now you're going after a different game animal.

It extends your season and your opportunities to be out there. And I think I'm gonna try to get to the Dakotas this year and do some pheasant hunting because watching videos of that, I'm like, you're just hanging out with everybody. The comradery of hunting is a big part of it for me. I'm not, I'm not the guy who's going out there self [00:51:00] filming, going back 20 miles by myself.

That sounds exciting. But I love being around other people who are enjoying the same things.

Charmaine Leath: Yeah. Just adds to the experience, the memories, the conversations. And I try to tell people that hunting isn't just about killing an animal. Yeah. There's so much more to it than just that. It's like the early morning coffee and the campfire conversations and stuff like that, that just makes the whole experience the experience.

Oh yeah. Harvesting an animal is just it just adds to it.

Dan Matthews: Yeah. It's unfortunate cuz I feel like hunting media over the years and there's a lot of YouTube channels and TV shows that are coming out now that highlight the whole journey and the whole adventure of it. But it seemed like before it was all about that kill shot.

And I'm like, that makes up one second, you know that arrows in the air for a second, that bullet's in flight for, maybe two seconds if you're shooting farther out. [00:52:00] And yeah, it just, I've got people that I've taken out hunting and we haven't sh pulled the trigger. And they're like, dude, I'm coming back and doing this.

This was awesome. Like just seeing all the different animals, it's so much more than the trigger squeeze, although you're out there to bring meat home or, to have that experience being out there. I tell people this is a vacation worth paying for whether or not you come home with meat. And they're like, dude, a non-resident tags like 700 bucks.

And I'm like, what else could you do for $700? That would get you out in the middle of the mountains hanging out with your buddies for nine days? Okay, so we're nearing an hour, but I've got a question that sometimes I fail to ask my guests, but it's very intriguing to me. If you could hunt any species with any weapon in any location, like bucket list, someone right now said you get one hunt you can go this year.

What would it [00:53:00] be? Where and what weapon?

Probably should have prepared

Charmaine Leath: for that one better. Just kidding. But caribou and I don't know what it is. Oh, they're just, they're maybe cuz they remind me of elk, but they're just, they're beautiful. Their antlers are priceless. Plus the places that you have to go for those animals would be extremely rewarding to even get one.

Yeah. So yeah. And honestly I'm not even sure where all the places you can go to even harvest that animal other than like Alaska. But that is my dream hunt. It really is. Or a stag, but I think caribou probably hovers over that.

Dan Matthews: Caribou is, it's just a wild animal. To think about seeing that migration.

I feel like that would be way more foreign to me actually seeing it in person, it wouldn't seem real. I think I'd be more used to seeing a lion, cuz like you go to a zoo, right? Every zoo has a lion. They've [00:54:00] got zebras, giraffes, elephants, but like caribou, you just don't see them maybe on a Christmas show, but that's about it.

And yeah, to see that migration in that landscape would be pretty wild.

Charmaine Leath: Yeah, and I think the landscape has something to do with it too. That just puts it to the experience. Someday. Someday I'll get there.

Dan Matthews: So a lot of people, I think the number one answer that I get is moose in Alaska and I need to add something to that question because a big part of the adventure is getting there.

If you could go and do a caribou hunt, are you thinking you'd do a four by four in. Float in, do a float plane, horseback, how would you get in and out from the hunt? To be totally

Charmaine Leath: honest, I'm not even sure what they usually do. But, if it was Alaska, [00:55:00] okay. Regardless, it would like to do all the things.

It's really cool. Yeah. But I've always dreamt about doing like a really awesome hunt with horses. Okay. And I think that kinda just tied back into like my childhood of being with horses and always wanting to hunt with horses. But my dad they passed away before, like we used them for hunting.

Okay. In an age that I could go. So yeah, I would say horses, caribou. Yep.

Dan Matthews: Okay. And then did you say with a bow or are you taking a rifle,

Charmaine Leath: All of the things that I've seen, they're really far away. Okay. And. I'm sure people have killed him with, with a bow. But I would probably use my dad's two 70 rifle also for the sentimental value, like I'm doing my once in a lifetime favorite hunt and that gun has been with me through almost

Dan Matthews: all of them.

Yeah, that makes sense. That's a great answer. I don't know that, I don't know that I've got caribou [00:56:00] before I get El and moose a lot. I get stag. I think those are probably, they probably make up 90% of the answers, so that's good. I feel like caribou just Alaskan in general, right? It's, does it get better than that?

The scenery, the wildlife, you're gonna see everything. You're gonna see grizzlies and black bear and wolves and moose and caribou and wolverines. The lynx, the things that every hunter dreams about seeing, having encounters with. Hopefully not too close on most of those, but Alaska's just a crazy place.

Have you been before? I have been to

Charmaine Leath: Alaska, not for hunting. I've been fishing there. Okay. And it is incredible. It reminds me of a lot of Colorado, honestly. Yeah. But

Dan Matthews: with the ocean, with the, yeah. You get the best of both worlds. Yeah. It's

Charmaine Leath: wild. Like it looks like we were staying at looks like Colorado.

It's beautiful and green and then, hey, there's ocean. Like right there. Yeah. So it's, yeah. It's the best of both worlds for sure.

Dan Matthews: Yeah. The [00:57:00] just go up and do Alaska surf and turf. You catch the fish, you get the caribou. You have the best meal you've ever had. Would you, do you know about the, I don't even know what it's called, the gooey, like doey substance behind the eyeball.

Thanks to Steve Ella. Yeah. Would you try it? Yeah.

Be careful what you commit to right here. Hopefully though,

Charmaine Leath: I know, you know what? I probably would, one, I watch Steve Brunell all the time, and two, you're going to Alaska on your dream hunt and you literally just harvest your dream animal. Why not? Why not?

Dan Matthews: I think you'd have to, right Now that I know it's a thing I didn't know that was a thing, but I think that, and then doing like bone marrow toast when it, when they did that in the episode, I was like, I could get down with that.

I heard it's amazing. It, I mean [00:58:00] it just, I want the whole experience and then I want to go back. What I want to do is I want to get a moose and then I want to go back and call in a moose with the bone from the other moose I don't know why. That just sounds awesome. To sit there and rake. On the tree with the scapula of a moose that I already got, or like my buddy got one and he kept the scapula and I'm like, that'd be so cool to just rake and call in a moose.

I don't know, man, what an

Charmaine Leath: experience

Dan Matthews: that would be. Yeah, it'd be fun. I'm gonna let you go. I know it's getting late. I don't know, I guess it's not really late at all where you're at. We're over on the east coast for the next two weeks. But before we do, where can people find you? Where can they follow along?

Because obviously you've got a ton of great content out there on your TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, all that good stuff. And people, including myself, are gonna be looking out for your adventures in Africa coming up.

Charmaine Leath: Yeah, [00:59:00] it's gonna be epic. Okay. So all of my media is my first and last name, so Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and I just started a YouTube channel as well.

And it's all Charmaine Leaf and you can find me on any of those. And oh, my content's gonna be amazing for South Africa. I can't

Dan Matthews: even wait. That's exciting. I really appreciate having you on. Thanks for giving me your time and for sharing all your stories. Yeah, thank you. That was

Charmaine Leath: awesome.