October Cold Fronts & The Lull

In this episode of the How to Hunt Deer podcast, hosts Dan Johnson and Jason Thibodeau discuss the October lull in deer hunting, share their experiences with youth hunting, and explore how weather changes impact deer behavior. They also reflect on the balance between family commitments and hunting, and address myths surrounding deer movement, particularly in relation to bobcats and the supposed October lull. In this conversation, Jason Thibodeau and Dan Johnson discuss various aspects of deer hunting, including the importance of understanding deer patterns, effective hunting strategies, and the significance of safety measures. They share personal experiences and insights on food sources, staging areas, and the timing of hunts, particularly in relation to the October lull and pre-rut periods. The discussion emphasizes the need for preparation and observation to enhance hunting success.

Takeaways:

• The October lull is often overstated and can be mythologized.
• Youth hunting experiences can be rewarding, even without a successful shot.
• Weather changes, like cold fronts, can influence deer behavior significantly.
• Balancing family activities with hunting is a common challenge for hunters.
• Bobcats and other predators can impact deer populations and movement.
• Being in the woods is essential to understanding deer behavior.
• Cold fronts may not always lead to immediate hunting success.
• Planning hunts around family schedules can enhance the experience.
• Trail cameras provide valuable insights but may not always reflect current deer activity.
• Patience is key; better hunting opportunities often arise later in the season. The intro of the podcast was relatable and engaging.
• Setting trail cameras in travel corridors is effective.
• Deer patterns change with agricultural activities.
• Hunting food sources is crucial during this time.
• Staging areas are key for deer movement.
• Patience is important when hunting for specific deer.
• The October lull is a time for observation, not hunting.
• Safety harnesses are essential for tree stand hunting.
• Regular practice with a bow is necessary for success.
• Deer behavior shifts as the season progresses.

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Dan Johnson (00:01.733)
All right, everybody, welcome back to the How to Hunt Deer podcast with two guys that question themselves every single year on whether or not they know how to actually hunt deer. And if you read the YouTube comments and if you read the social media comments and comments left on iTunes or whatever, I personally am a douchebag and...

Jason Thibodeau (00:12.384)
You

Dan Johnson (00:31.485)
And I have no business being in the woods. So There's that how we're like, I don't know. That's how we're starting off this episode. Okay So It's October We're right in the middle of what some would say is the October lol So we're gonna talk a little bit about that. We're gonna talk about youth hunts. We're gonna talk about bobcats and we're gonna talk about

Jason Thibodeau (00:38.976)
Right, right, right, right.

Dan Johnson (00:58.757)
deer behavior this time of year, what they're doing, how they're doing it, and hopefully the conversation that we have today is not necessarily to have two experts tell you what you should be doing, but maybe our conversations open your ears a little bit and it might give you an idea of what's going on. Quick word of warning on this episode though, both of our, all of our kids are home today.

So if you hear kids screaming in the background, it's just ignore it. Like you ignore your own kids and we're going to be good to go. Jason, how we doing, man?

Jason Thibodeau (01:27.573)
Yes they are.

Jason Thibodeau (01:33.66)
Right? Yep, yep, exactly. I'm good, Dan. I hope this Monday's treating you well.

Dan Johnson (01:41.753)
Yeah, it's doing okay. I thought we missed the bus today, but the bus was a little late and so I didn't miss it. I had kind of an boy moment like, great. Now I'm going to have to be late to this podcast so I can go and take him to school. Luckily we didn't miss the bus. and here we are. Okay. So first thing I want to talk about today, huge temperature drop. And we've talked about this a little bit before it went from

Jason Thibodeau (02:06.335)
Yes.

Dan Johnson (02:09.914)
High 70s, low 80s to the high today is supposed to be 55 degrees. On a scale of one being I'm not interested at all to 10 being my God, I need to be in the stand, I need to drop everything and get in the stand. Where do you lie right now?

Jason Thibodeau (02:29.166)
I'm excited honestly, just for the fact that I hadn't been out until last night I took the kids out. It was Illinois youth shotgun season this past weekend. So I took them out and man, we saw quite a few deer. We obviously didn't see any of our shooters. The way it kind of lays out is I take them and we put them up in a box blind. We all three sit in there and this time I was going to let my son

Dan Johnson (02:31.658)
yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (02:57.59)
be the first one to shoot if something came in, you know, close enough. And we have a standing cornfield, probably half acre in size, kind of in front of us off to the left. And then off to our right, we have a fall food plot, just a green patch, basically a bunch of different varieties. And then down further, it kind of breaks up again, does that fall food plot again. And we're just sitting on the face of the timber. And then outside to the front of our standing corn is a pit cornfield.

The neighbors got like 45 acres that he picks. And so we get in there and I always try to make sure that we have two hours, no more basically than that to sit. They just get antsy. And we let them take their tablets and books or whatever they got to take to stay busy, snacks and stuff. But we get in and we sit there for probably an hour and we started seeing our first couple deer down to the north. And the wind was out of the northwest. It was pretty strong.

window to the northeast to shoot at about 20 yards. And my son hasn't practiced much with the crossbow or anything, I made sure we practiced a little bit when we got in there, like how to hold and everything. He was keeping in mind he was shooting with a crossbow and not a shotgun, just because we haven't done that much.

So we had a couple deer come out and then we had, I think there were six down there. We had a doe and a fawn start working their way in and they got to about 30 yards. And I think it was just the fact that he's never been in that situation. he got a little nervous and was asking dad, I can't see or dad could get to go up or I need to go down. And, and then she just kind of spooked and trotted off to the north. We saw a couple bucks down at that end and they just sparred for a little bit in the field. Well then off to the south we had.

had eight deer come out and they by dark they had made it in to about 30 yards in I got that zeroed in at 30 yards my daughter shot out to 40 with it so I mean I'm pretty confident with her because I mean she stood up in there and she held it and she got comfortable with her you know doing everything herself

Jason Thibodeau (05:09.506)
But keep in mind, mean, you know, he's going to be nine and she's going to be 11, but they had a fun time and they're definitely looking forward to going back out. But boy, it was windy yesterday. first time out, we saw 14 deer. I was pretty excited about that.

Dan Johnson (05:18.955)
yeah, really windy. Yeah.

you

Yeah. And just seeing deer is a win at that age. and, so I don't know. I look back, I've had time to kind of reflect on the mishaps of what happened. And I launched a YouTube video on the sportsman's empire, YouTube page of where I was sitting. The camera angle doesn't do it necessarily justice because I was, I was off to the side of her, maybe a little in front of her.

Jason Thibodeau (05:29.849)
Yes.

Dan Johnson (05:54.978)
But the way that that camera was running or was pointed, looked like I was way in front of her. That wasn't the case. But I feel like I was definitely lower than her though. And I had a wide open view. And I'm not 100 % sure. I'm still like going over all of this in my head on whether or not I did something wrong. And I think I just, the only thing that I.

I'm gonna do different next time is be directly behind her. Maybe even have her sit on my lap and we would have had, I would have been able to adjust. You know what I mean? Adjust the gun for her.

Jason Thibodeau (06:33.503)
Yeah. Yeah, and that that I

I think that's what happened with my son last night too, because I was actually kind of on my knees helping him hold the front part of it because he couldn't set it on the window shelf. I don't know if it was, I need to go up, Dad, I needed to go down. I don't know if it was just, you know, a little bit of anxiety from never have shot, you know, an animal. But it was, it was fun. You know, the only thing like I could say like for me is sometimes you expect them to know it and just do it.

it just like we've done it and you take it for granted that no, no, no, no, just, just point this way, point that way or, know, and I think that might've been part of it too. And it's, it's hard to not get, you know, like.

Dan Johnson (07:13.326)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (07:21.253)
You know, you said squeeze the trigger, you know what I mean? And it's like, I see myself doing the same thing. So, mean, taking that step back and just letting them enjoy it is probably more important because for them, yeah, they might be they might be disheartened by, you know, not getting a shot on an animal, but it's not the end of the world.

Dan Johnson (07:34.135)
Yeah, you're right.

Dan Johnson (07:41.324)
Yeah, you're right. And then the other thing I was thinking about was, some guy, some guy commented, hey, you know, put your kid in a blind that way if they fall asleep and this and that, but they didn't notice me. And so I don't know, man, maybe he's right. Maybe I could have got away with some more movement if I had a blind tucked in there. You know what I mean? Probably. I definitely would have been able to get away, but I don't know about you. I never hunted in a blind. I'd never.

Jason Thibodeau (08:02.999)
Yeah, yeah.

Dan Johnson (08:10.197)
have other than with my wife on a couple hunts, I have never hunted deer out of a blind and I have never hunted deer or turkey out of a blind other than with my wife. That's how I learned. I learned without a blind.

Jason Thibodeau (08:22.917)
I think in all the years of hunting I've taken one buck out of a blind, I've taken a couple turkeys out of a blind, but the main reason for me to ever set a blind up or to be in an elevated box blind is specifically for taking someone else hunting, someone new.

Dan Johnson (08:37.973)
Right. Right. Right. I don't know. I just I'm a little I'm still a little frustrated and I feel like I'm taking 100 percent responsibility for it. And I'm hoping that we get a couple of days. I get a couple of deer located like first shotgun season here in Iowa to where I can take her out and and find something for her. And whatever it whatever it is, I want to I want to have a.

Jason Thibodeau (08:57.206)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (09:03.715)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (09:07.577)
Deer I want to I want to get her a deer this year and I feel horrible about how it turned out. But anyway All that's over. I'm glad that you You and your kids saw some deer. Are you guys going out again at all here this week?

Jason Thibodeau (09:24.846)
Well, we were talking about going today because they have today off of school. But my son has football, my daughter has tumbling. So tonight's this afternoon is not going to work. I think the next possibility would be potentially Saturday or Sunday. It just depends on how it works out. I think more than likely Sunday afternoon of next week. I think we've got a pretty good eye where the deer are and neither one of them are going to be super picky. It's funny because my daughter's actually

Dan Johnson (09:30.017)
Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (09:54.762)
The other way, she's already shot her first buck, which was two years ago, and she would just as soon shoot a doe this time. And that was her goal last year was to shoot a doe. We just didn't have any shot opportunities. And my son, he would shot that doe last night. But then I told him what size those bucks were. And, know, they're just little guys and he's, I don't know about that. So don't know where his mind is with it. And I'm not going to be super picky with what they shoot. So.

Dan Johnson (10:21.034)
He wants a giant, Dad. He wants to a giant. Come on, Dad, put me on a giant.

Jason Thibodeau (10:23.774)
I... well, okay, so the funny story behind that is he says, dad was your first buck bigger than...

my sisters and I said well yeah it's in your room so my first archery buck was is in his room my first shotgun deer is in my daughter's room and because I kind of thought that was the way they would go like he would be more into archery and she would be more into gun hunting and stuff but I kind of feel like it could be the other way but yeah to your point I mean I don't know that he really cares but yeah yeah I think he wants something bigger

Dan Johnson (10:59.2)
Yeah, okay. All right, youth season. Still some time left to get these kids some tag. Let's talk a little bit about this. said you got excited. You're kind of excited for this colder weather. Are you excited just because it's colder weather or are you excited because you feel it's going to change a deer's behavior?

Jason Thibodeau (11:15.514)
I

Jason Thibodeau (11:24.519)
Okay, so a couple of things that first off, I got excited because I actually got to go out. I mean, we're today's, today's the 14th, you know, so I'm two weeks into the season, you know, you wait nine months and here we are. So I'm excited because of that. But then on the way home last night, my cell cameras were sending me pictures and now all of a sudden I'm getting these, these bucks, they're starting to show up and they're close. I mean, I think the one that showed up on this property, I have yet to identify which one he is, but he's got a nice drop

Dan Johnson (11:30.336)
yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (11:54.455)
time and I mean night really nice deer. He was probably seven 30 last night in front of the camera, which probably puts them in the field around seven o'clock, which he's close to daylight. I had another one.

couple nights ago. So I think this weather pattern, the shift that we got here, this cold front, I there might be something to it if you take advantage of it, but I still don't have any of the daytime big mature bucks on their feet to where I'm excited to go dive into a sweet spot. I'm probably going to sit from afar and I'm going to observe more than I'm going to do anything.

Dan Johnson (12:33.503)
Yeah. And so this cold front kind of landed on a Sunday evening hunt slash Monday, Tuesday morning. And I think tomorrow, Tuesday is going to be cooler. And then it starts to jump back up for the Midwest, you know, and, and take what I'm saying based off of where you live in the United States, because there's a lot of, this cold front's kind of going through the Midwest in Southeast right now.

during the week, okay? And this is where I have a very hard time jumping on board with like people saying, dude, dude, it's mid-October cold front, gotta get on the cold front, let's get on the cold front. Okay, are you willing to take time off of work in order to chase a cold front in mid-October that comes through in the middle of the week?

Jason Thibodeau (13:32.649)
No, not for me. I'm not, I'm not going to take time off right now. If I, if I had solid daytime pictures or was seeing deer in the mornings when I take the kids to school or I take a couple back roads when I go to work or something, if I'm seeing deer on their feet and it's still 730 in the morning, then possibly I might go hunt a morning real quick or something. Same thing if the afternoon, if my work allowed and I have a couple hours and I could sneak in real quick to a more or less an observation stand, then I might. But what my cameras are telling

me right now.

Some of them have almost shut off just because they need to be moved now. mean, they're in there. They've transitioned because crops have been combined and harvested out of the areas and they've turned into just a ghost town until the rut happens. Those areas will be obsolete. And then there's other areas where now that the crops are coming out, they're actually filtering down into those funnels and those draws a lot more. So I'm getting a lot more intel and pictures on those. So for me, it's going to come to the end of the month.

I guess what I got really excited about was the fact that we went from mid 80s to 50s today. I mean that's a big swing in temperature. I don't know if there's I don't believe in October lull either. I don't know if there's if that to me hot in that cold front I don't know if I'm gonna put a lot of weight into that though either.

Dan Johnson (14:55.56)
Yeah, yeah time of year like a cold front doesn't make the breeding season happen faster. It doesn't make those all of a sudden pop into heat and the rut is going to start today. That just it's not going to happen. I just get like here's what I would do if this cold front landed on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, maybe I would go out and hunt maybe depending on my schedule. But my fall is so jam packed with activities and kids and.

Jason Thibodeau (15:01.308)
No.

Dan Johnson (15:23.324)
and trying to get everything set up for the late October pre-ret timeframe that I'm not gonna put any effort, me personally, I'm not taking away from all my other stuff to go out and hunt this. Especially, now I'm gonna put myself in the shoes of the working man here for a second, and who has to go to a factory job or bank or whatever the case is, and they have to make the decision, do I go out and try to take vacation time?

to chase a shooter buck at this point. just don't like statistically, if you were to break it down, just don't think statistically it improves any odds at this point, especially if it happens in the middle of the week, right? And so now you're asking yourself, but at the same time, I'll finish with this statement, I'll finish.

Jason Thibodeau (15:57.769)
you

Jason Thibodeau (16:09.874)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (16:16.601)
If you take time off of work, you have a better chance of killing a deer than if you don't go hunting, right? So you gotta make the decision on how much vacation time you wanna spend on this cold front versus, you know, maybe it's just four hours and maybe you have that. But I know a lot of guys who have two weeks for the entire year and they're not gonna take off. They're gonna take off one straight week for the family.

or they're going to have one week dedicated to the family and one week dedicated to hunting.

Jason Thibodeau (16:48.626)
Yeah, I think that's where I would-

I would definitely agree is because I'm not going to take that time off now. What I know it's probably going to get better. More crops are going to come out. Dose are going to come into estrus. There's going to be less room for them to travel through, you know, wooded draws and everything and not be out in open to where I think you could stack the odds in your favor. Definitely by hunting the end of the month through the middle of November to all the way up to Thanksgiving versus I'm going to hunt now. I think I'm going to save my week and and roll the dice there. I mean, unless I had great Intel

or great knowledge on a specific deer. But if you're just wanting to go harvest an animal for the freezer, can take whatever time off you want then. But I wouldn't necessarily take the time off. I would just save it for the weekend and get an afternoon hunt on Saturday or Sunday and then enjoy your rut hunt vacation or whatever these guys call it.

Dan Johnson (17:28.05)
yeah, there's plenty of those available.

Dan Johnson (17:43.485)
Yeah, man, I'll tell you this. like shooting and chasing big, giant whitetails period. OK, I love that. But I'm to the point now where I'm starting every year and I've said this before, I'm starting to care less and less and less about it. I'm starting to care more and more about hanging out with my kids. And so I don't know, man. I'm not that guy who's going to sacrifice a lot for the family anymore to go hunting. Right. I mean.

Jason Thibodeau (18:12.21)
Yeah, I think I can, I can, I can agree. mean, last night, that's kind of how it was for me. think that was another reason I got excited was because I was able to get both of them out. We were able to go do a hunt for a couple hours together. And I don't know if that next time is a, is a week away or when it is, it's all on their activities and all school schedule. So mean, for me to be able to do that once, twice, three times a month, that's on the lucky side.

Dan Johnson (18:12.986)
I say, yeah.

Dan Johnson (18:39.238)
Okay, well, this is crazy. I don't know, man. I just don't know anymore. I wish I had like some something exciting and riveting to say about this time of year, but I just don't hunt it. Right. What's funny is that dude, if I, if I could, I would, if I, if I had a property right out of my back door, I would go hunting, but all my properties are, have to get in my car and have to drive a little ways.

Jason Thibodeau (18:55.87)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (19:08.904)
or a long ways. I say that, I'm also a hypocrite because I just took an entire seven days off away from my family to go to South Dakota mule deer hunting. So whatever, take it however you wanna take it. But the moral of the story is just if you don't know what to do, just go hunt. Just go hunt or go hunt the weekends.

Jason Thibodeau (19:15.626)
There, right.

Jason Thibodeau (19:30.216)
Yeah, I agree.

I agree. mean, I have the opportunity to actually walk out my back door and hunt. It's not real big or anything like that, but there's deer there. And, you know, the only way I'm going to know when they're there is being there or what cameras tell me. Well, if I went off of what my cameras are telling me right now, there's no deer. There's raccoons, coyotes. And all of a sudden now I have a bobcat that lives on my property. And that's a whole nother topic because I was going to ask you just,

Dan Johnson (19:52.582)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (19:57.832)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Thibodeau (20:02.666)
I will make you apply for these Bobcat tags permits.

Dan Johnson (20:07.841)
man, I forgot, I know they used to. I know they used to, but now I think you can only go after them during the trapping season. I thought, but don't take my word for that. I'm probably wrong.

Jason Thibodeau (20:10.758)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (20:18.726)
Okay, yeah, so...

Jason Thibodeau (20:23.93)
So Illinois, you got to apply for it and it's like a month long application period. think I actually drew it this year, which is only my second time ever getting it, which I'm pretty stoked about in a way because every single property that I hunt has some bobcat of some sort or multiple on it, which is kind of cool. That's, mean, I'd like to shoot one, but that's what I would have if I walked out my back door right now, all the crops are down except for the couple of food plots. I'd have nothing but predators basically.

Right.

Dan Johnson (20:55.591)
That's a great thing to see on your trail cameras for a deer hunter is just tons of coyotes and bobcats. So, okay. The next question I want to ask is you have on one hand the October Lowell that you hear people talk about, the October Lowell, deers just stop moving, they don't move, blah, blah, blah, Then at the same exact time that the October Lowell is happening, you have this cold front come through.

Jason Thibodeau (21:04.818)
Yep. Yep.

Dan Johnson (21:24.281)
And now you have some of the same people saying, hey, listen, you gotta go get in the woods and chase this cold front. Chase this cold front. So, don't those two things kinda contradict each other? Or is it the cold front trumps the October lull? Or does the October lull trump the cold front?

Jason Thibodeau (21:44.838)
I think it's just the way we are as people. mean, everything's mass hysteria. You know, if somebody says do this, do that, we're going to do this or do that because it's the cool thing or because it's on social media. I mean, I agree with you. To me, there's no October lull. To me, that is one of the largest myths that there is as far as a deer hunter. The only way you're going to know if there's deer in the woods is to be in the woods. There's a time where they shift back and forth because of different crops coming out or because

because they're losing velvet on them, they're gaining winter hair, there's all sorts of different things that are changing in the deer woods. And the only way to know those things is to be there. But if you want a better hunt and a better experience, think stack your odds, wait till the end of October, and then if you get a cold front, I mean, two weeks from now, a cold front then is more important than a cold front now. Because we know a cold front now is not gonna last.

Dan Johnson (22:22.01)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (22:43.098)
Yeah, you're right. I couldn't agree more. you know, again, take what we're saying with a grain of salt because you'll listen to other podcasts out there and people are going to be like, dude, get in the woods, get in the woods or this right now, this second on this cold front or do not hunt because of the October lull, you know, like save, know, but worse. Like what I'm saying is there's better hunting coming. And if we can all be patient enough, right, you're going to have better. I mean,

I just feel like you're gonna have better odds the more deer are on their feet in a week or two weeks. Somewhere around that October 25th timeframe, you start hunting hard and you're gonna have encounters with deer if you do it right.

Jason Thibodeau (23:28.823)
To me, if yesterday, let's just change the scenario a little bit. To me, if it was...

80, 85 degrees, was I still going to take my kids hunting while I was going to leave it up to them? I want to take them. But if next week was going to be 20 degrees cooler, I'm probably going to wait and say, hey guys, let's not go sweat and everything. So I mean, if it's a temperature thing, a cold front thing I took and actually just use that temperature cold front thing in that, in that exact scenario where I knew deer were going to be and nobody has been in their hunting season at all this year.

And I, we saw 14 deer. You know, to me that's a good hunt, but I didn't base it off of, it's October lull or it's, you know, cold front coming through. I based it off of this is a better weather scenario and a good situation for the kids to go.

Dan Johnson (24:19.535)
Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. That's a good way to look at it. All right, so right now you kind of mentioned it a little bit earlier and you said something about your cell cameras aren't showing too much as far as what? I mean, you saw 14 deer last night, but your trail cameras haven't been showing you much. What does that mean?

Jason Thibodeau (24:44.269)
So the where a lot of the trail cameras are is they're basically on travel corridors inside of Timbers. So when I set them up in July, I don't have to move them a whole lot until I plan on being there. And normally I can plan it to be just about right.

Jason Thibodeau (25:03.905)
with the rut and

Dan Johnson (25:04.354)
Yeah, I'm sorry. My son just came in. This is what I'm talking about, right? So I tried to shush. You thought I was shushing you. I'm shushing my son. What do you need, bud? This is my life. What do you need? You're hungry, but you just had breakfast.

Jason Thibodeau (25:09.569)
Yep,

Dan Johnson (25:24.087)
Okay, I tell you what, let me finish this and then I will come downstairs and I will help you make breakfast. Okay. A second breakfast. Okay. Go sit on the couch. All right. Shut the door, bud. Shut the door. Thank you. And, and that's as real life as it gets. Okay. That's, that's real life. I can remember the, when I started doing the nine finger Chronicles podcast, you could hear.

Jason Thibodeau (25:27.662)
You

Jason Thibodeau (25:43.149)
Yeah, now I know.

Jason Thibodeau (25:51.981)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (25:52.674)
my wife in the background yelling at the kids. Yelling. Don't do that, blah, blah. And then so all of the first like 100 episodes was just my wife yelling, because I was doing them like right around supper time or maybe right after supper time getting ready for bed. And so anyway.

Jason Thibodeau (25:55.561)
Yelling. yep. Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (26:12.655)
You know that was one of the realest podcasts that you could listen to though. mean the biggest part of your podcast was the intro. Listen to real family life and stories and all that. I mean that was a huge attention grabber for me because it's just how you relate to it and then we're going to talk about deer you know so. But.

Dan Johnson (26:17.452)
I know.

Dan Johnson (26:22.584)
Yep.

Dan Johnson (26:28.366)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (26:31.971)
Yeah, so for me, my trail cameras, I try to set them up in travel corridors. I don't necessarily set them up on food plots or anything like that. Some of them I'll put over what is a year round scrape area. And that way don't have to move them a whole lot until I know I'm going to actually go in and hunt. Right now, the crops are starting to come out in a lot of these spots. So I know I got to get in there because once the crops start to come out, it changes their patterns a little bit. So I think that's why I'm not seeing some like a

said, that's on two of them, I've noticed slow movements and everything. And then on another one, it's like it's ramped up because the crops are coming out and they're actually filtering down into this. It's a bottom funnel drainage and there's a scrape, like a hub scrape that they hit year round. And now I'm starting to get pictures of all sorts of deer in there. So it just depends on where the location is.

Dan Johnson (27:25.57)
Yeah, I've seen a little bit of an uptick in deer movement on my trail cameras, still mostly nocturnal though on both of my properties. And I think there's an adjustment that's happening right now. I hunt in ag country. So their patterns are being disrupted by, you know, combines coming in, taking corn, taking beans, whatever, you know, cattle being moved from pasture into fields.

Jason Thibodeau (27:30.256)
you

Jason Thibodeau (27:48.005)
Right.

Dan Johnson (27:54.913)
and then hay bales being put in those fields. So food sources are kind of changing right now for them as far as their patterns. And I think it's less about their behavior and more about reacting to farming pressure right now. And that's why I'm seeing it like, not necessarily they're going away, they're just changing their routes in to and from places.

Jason Thibodeau (28:21.776)
Well, and so to your point last night when I was watching those deer come out with the kids, you know, they came out into the green patch first, they nibbled a little bit and then they went straight to the farmer's field that's already been combined and they literally just picking corn right off of the ground. Meanwhile, we have a standing corn food plot right in front of the blind that they never even came into or touched. These deer know what they can save for food and what they need to eat now.

Dan Johnson (28:49.398)
Yep, yep, and I got a trail camera picture. I'm looking for it of my number one target buck this year. got, I don't know if it was this morning or yesterday, but what I'm getting at is I'm a little upset because my trail camera showed me that this like eight inch point off of his base, his base is now gone. It's been broken off and it was, it wasn't, it was like the size of a finger thickness. So I knew it was gonna be

Jason Thibodeau (28:58.854)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (29:12.859)
Mmm.

Dan Johnson (29:18.871)
gone anyway, but it would have been sweet to get on that deer. It probably had, I think it happened sometime in the last week or so, cause two weeks ago I got a trail camera picture of him and it was there and now it's gone. And so maybe he was fighting a little bit. He's still, he's still a, yeah, you got a freak.

Jason Thibodeau (29:28.421)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (29:39.406)
So so see this right here, I mean, that's probably 12 to 13 inches, I'm guessing. And I mean, obviously, once they move into that fighting period and stuff, they probably won't last, you know, and that's kind of a bummer because to what you're saying about yours, it's the same thing. You're number one target deer. gets this abnormal point or whatever on this other farm. I've got another deer that's got a drop time and you just you know, when they get banging their antlers together that they could potentially lose one. So.

Dan Johnson (30:07.702)
Yeah, yep. That is a fact. All right. Now let's talk the strategy. We basically have just told people, hey, we don't go and hunt this time of year. Okay. Don't go. Don't go hunt. But, but if we were millionaires and we had thousands of acres and we could do whatever we wanted, whenever we wanted, I'm guys like us would probably hunt. What would you be doing right now? If you were hunting, what strategy would you take?

Jason Thibodeau (30:08.463)
That's haunting.

Jason Thibodeau (30:17.393)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we don't want.

Jason Thibodeau (30:38.203)
I'm going to hunt food sources right now. I'm not, I'm not diving into timber. I'm not going into bedding areas. Me personally, I'm not, I I'm going to more or less use it as a observation set every time, you know, but I can't tell you all this because I don't have thousands of acres and I don't have all the time in the world to hunt, you know, got to work every day. And so my schedule basically revolves around work. You know, I, I might take my vacation time and go on my trip. I'm going to take a little more vacation time and hunt around the rut period here.

But for me right now, yeah, I'm probably going to sit back and hunt food sources. If I know there's a good food source or like last week, I probably would have been hunting predominantly around water because it got hot, you know, and they're putting on their winter coats and stuff and they need to drink. So.

Dan Johnson (31:22.786)
Excuse me. Yep. And so when you say food source for us in the eastern part of the United States, by the way, out west, I can't wait till you go out there and walk on potato chips. It's so dry.

Jason Thibodeau (31:35.251)
my gosh.

I looked so I'm not going to get too sidetracked, but I looked last night on on X and then I was scrolling on. I think it was on Facebook and I saw where I'm going. It elevated to like a stage two fire danger. And then I'm looking in the forecast and the forecast is still fairly warm when I plan on going. And I can only imagine stage two fire forecast and then the high winds you get out there. It's going to be like walking on potato chips.

Dan Johnson (32:06.611)
dude, it was, it was bad. I needed wind. needed heavy wind to even get in on these deer because I could hear even with 25, 30 mile an hour winds, every step I took, I could hear myself. I could hear it. And I don't know. It's, it's, it's a struggle anyway, getting back to the food source aspect of it. You said I'm hunting food sources.

Jason Thibodeau (32:14.172)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (32:30.256)
Hey, yeah. The food source.

Dan Johnson (32:36.318)
What specific green acorns, crops, what?

Jason Thibodeau (32:40.884)
Well, right now I'm gonna

try to hunt around some green, but if I'm around a freshly picked cornfield or a freshly picked bean field, I might hunt the fringes of that too. I mean, just as I saw last night, I mean, those deer come out and they look for the scattered corn that the combine didn't get, or when they spill out of the auger or whatever, that's the areas that I'm going to try to focus in on. I mean, it's a natural food source and you can take advantage of it. Even if you don't have your own food plots, you can be setting up on edges of those next to

water on a hot day. you had water, a green source, and then a destination food, a food source, like a pit corn field, I'd be trying to hit something like that this time of year.

Dan Johnson (33:25.14)
Yeah. Okay.

Dan Johnson (33:30.003)
green like clovers like you think you think they're hitting clover right now like green green grass anything like that fresh.

Jason Thibodeau (33:34.068)
Clovers... Y-yep... Yep...

Clovers and some of that winter wheat and stuff they'll be eating on that rye grasses and stuff. They'll be nibbling on it. It's not a huge food source form right now. If you're in acorns and stuff, they might be hitting them too. Some of the acorn crops around here, they're not as good as they are in the past. has they have been in the past. Same with the apples. You know, there's a couple like natural orchards that we can hunt around and the apples didn't produce real well and they're just kind of mushy and full of full worms and whatnot.

But I would probably try to hit the soft mast if you could, if it was hot and the green source, if it was hot next to a water, you know, if it cooled down, I'd probably lean more towards hitting like acorns and then the grain foods, you know, like the corns and stuff, or, know, if you can.

Dan Johnson (34:28.512)
Yeah, yeah, I would probably for me, knowing what I know about deer and how scraping activity is starting to ramp up right now. If you find a scrape, maybe hunt over a scrape. And a lot of it depends on the terrain that it's in. But for me, if I'm going in, these are my favorite places anyway to hunt, even if it is pre-rut. Man, I would find a staging area.

Jason Thibodeau (34:41.043)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (34:52.862)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (34:56.413)
And the definition of a staging area for those of you who do not know is an area that the deer come out of their bedding and they hang out in this area. Maybe they lay some scrapes. Maybe they rub on a tree a little bit, but then they kind of stage in this particular area before they go to a destination food source or they're watching for predators or people or cars because although

Deer don't have the capability to make like really complex decisions. They do know routines. And I've seen Deer come to a staging area. They will wait for a school bus to go by every single day. They'll wait and then the school bus goes by and then they will cross this road. And so they're in tune to...

to that type of behavior and their environment at some point. But I would go into a staging area and look for some fresh rubs, some fresh scrapes, a main trail coming into an ag field. I wouldn't be hunting the field edge as much, but I'd get into the timber a little bit in a good terrain feature and I'd set up shop right in there somewhere.

Jason Thibodeau (36:16.019)
Yeah, I could see that too.

On the one property that we have, we've kind of set a staging area for them. And when I say hunt green, that's generally a green food source in there in that staging area. And they'll scrape in around it and then they'll head to that destination source after they're done in there for a while. Like you say, there's a time, you know, off to the west of there, the neighbors will come home from school. The deer pretty much know it. And then you can give it about 10 minutes and then those deer will just kind of come right out like they're safe again.

Dan Johnson (36:23.199)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (36:47.091)
Yeah, yeah. And at the same time, with all of this being said, I really think that I wouldn't go bananas quite yet, unless you have a deer pegged and you've seen him multiple days in a row and you have this idea of where something like a big shooter buck is, if that's your goal, a big shooter buck or your first buck ever and you have a pattern of them, go take advantage of that pattern right now.

because I feel like the memory, the memory of these deer are, they're short right now. They're gonna get busted and then they're gonna, like in a couple weeks, man, they're gonna forget about everything and they're just gonna be running around crazy. So be patient with them and they'll, I feel they'll be patient with you. Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (37:15.392)
Right.

Jason Thibodeau (37:35.766)
I think that's...

Jason Thibodeau (37:40.382)
Yeah, I think that's where I'm kind of as far as like what I'm seeing like on cameras and stuff. Yes, I have a couple of shooters that have come by on camera and yeah, they're close to daylighting. But if if I'm going to go in and hunt that specific deer, I'm not going to go in necessarily right now and hunt that specific deer. I'm going to try to stack the odds because I know he's going to be even more inclined to daylight towards the end of the month or first part of November. Now, if I just like I said, if I just want to fill the freezer, I'm probably going to take the safest

Easiest course to not spook deer and that's how I'm gonna hunt from afar more or less and observe and if one walks by that's how I'll take my advantage of you know a cold front or this quote-unquote October lull if you call it that Just fill in that time to me. I want to want to stack my odds instead of fill time with hunts right now

Dan Johnson (38:31.943)
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the, that's what I'm doing too, is I'm just waiting. Like I got two more weeks. What's today's the 14th. I may, next week before Halloween, try to get like an evening hunt out maybe, but it would take, it would take a lot. Like it it would take multiple days of a shooter showing up in daylight on a trail camera for me to go out and do that. But more than likely,

Do you want to know a fact about me? I have never shot a target buck in October.

Jason Thibodeau (39:09.567)
I did not know that I was trying to, okay. I was, I was trying to think back myself, but I've shot several in October, but I was trying to think while you were saying that what the earliest was that I've shot one. And I don't know that it was much. I don't, I don't think it was anything before the 15th. had to have been after the 15th. So.

Dan Johnson (39:11.633)
I've never done it.

Dan Johnson (39:22.385)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (39:30.846)
Yeah, if I did, it was my very first buck ever. And something tells me if it might have been October 27th is when I shot that buck. But I also don't necessarily think so. I don't know. It would have been 2006 or 2007 when I shot my first ever buck with a bow. And if I did, I can't remember what specific date it was. It was either like the first couple of days in November, like November 4th, or it was November.

Jason Thibodeau (39:35.316)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (39:59.344)
or October 27th, so I can't really remember.

Jason Thibodeau (40:02.135)
Mine was October 27th, 2003. So that was the very first deer I shot, period. And I was with a bow. Nice big buck, got lucky.

Dan Johnson (40:07.622)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (40:11.291)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, this kind of, this kind of.

information I think is useful. When do you shoot most of your deer? Like is there a date or a date range that you shoot most of your deer in? As far as let's say archery because we're in archery season right now.

Jason Thibodeau (40:34.634)
Yeah

Yeah, so my date range would go from about that 27th timeframe all the way probably up to around the 10th or 11th of November. That's the predominant timeframe. So I would give it a week and a half.

Dan Johnson (40:54.139)
Yeah. So my birthday is November 5th. Okay. And I have never shot a deer on my birthday.

Never. I bet you the most, the most I've, I would say November 4th. I've shot a ton of deer on November 4th. I've shot some good deer on November 6th through 8th. And I've only shot two deer past November 8th.

Jason Thibodeau (41:03.179)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (41:28.187)
I think one was on the 14th. I struggled a lot that year. And then the other one was like November 12th, I think. And so, and these are averages, but for me, the best time to be in the woods is that first, the last couple of days of October, the first couple of days in November, where the deer, the bucks are ready to breed and the does are not ready to breed. Those deer, they're, I don't want to say it's easy.

Jason Thibodeau (41:28.394)
Okay.

Jason Thibodeau (41:53.708)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (41:55.408)
but they're easier to kill than when the rut kicks in full full full bore.

Jason Thibodeau (42:01.919)
Yeah, I like that early season, the early pre-rut as personally, mean, I could probably rewind from the 27th and say around the 25th, 24th possibly, you know, I might start hunting a little bit, ramp it up a little bit more and then come about that very end of October, I'm going to start throwing in my morning sits. And then when I get to around the second, third, even fourth of November, then I may do start throwing in an all day sit. Generally.

I, the, what I've seen with like the all day sits, my personal experiences, I would like from about November 6th through November 11th, maybe the 12th, right in there seems like the all day sit seems to really pay off.

Dan Johnson (42:47.024)
Yeah, my goal is to shoot a deer before I have to go to that all day sit stuff. Cause I hate, I hate, absolutely hate sitting all day long, man. I don't have the patience for it. Like I need to be on my computer at some point throughout the day to get work done, but it sucks, man. It really, it really sucks having to sit all day.

Jason Thibodeau (42:52.943)
hahahaha

Jason Thibodeau (43:04.27)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (43:07.937)
It's definitely a love-hate relationship. I love doing it, but I also hate doing it.

Dan Johnson (43:14.671)
Yeah, yep. All right, so we talked a little bit about staging areas, food sources, if it's hot water, these cold fronts. Is there anything else this time of year that we should be thinking about as far as maybe changes in deer behavior or strategy?

Jason Thibodeau (43:35.63)
I think deer behavior, I think you're going to start to see some deer start to shift around a little bit more too now. And crops are coming out, but you're also going to start to see them, the pecking order with the dominance and everything with the bucks. I don't think you're going to see so much as far as the doe shifting around. mean, the doe she's going to call spot home. That's pretty much going to be her home. She's not going to leave too far as long as there's food and water shelter and she's safe from predators. Strategy wise, I think I would literally start looking at my trail camera pictures if I have multiple

camera pictures on a significant property and draw lines and make a circle and start narrowing down where I feel like if I have a target buck that I want to be sitting. And as far as strategy too, don't be afraid to move. If you know, hunting mornings right now is your thing, or if you want to go hunt this quote unquote lull or this cold front, don't be afraid to do it because you don't know what we're missing. We're, mean, obviously not experts, but we're sitting here telling you, well, I'm not going to hunt until the end of the month.

So, strategy wise, though, I think one thing I saw it again this morning, it kind of bothers me. Another fall out of a tree tree, with one of those climbers, man, I just see in more and more of it. And guys, you can use all the strategy in the world to hunt these animals, but if you're not being safe doing it, you don't know that you're going to return from the woods. So just put a safety harness on. And one thing I read too, is always let somebody know about where you're at, you know,

Dan Johnson (44:46.404)
Yep.

Jason Thibodeau (45:05.501)
what location, general location, have a buddy, have a wife, whatever that you can talk to about that. And then the other thing is strategy wise, just because season started, don't forget to shoot your bow.

Dan Johnson (45:18.832)
yeah, fact. That's the biggest thing. don't know how many, like, ma'am, every time I hear someone, because I go to a bow shop or it's a store and they have an archery department and you hear guys, you know, just in passing and they're like, well, you know, I just got it out today and it's like October 25th and I'll shoot it. You know, I got to get it ready for my vacation. I'm just like, ugh, ugh.

Jason Thibodeau (45:43.399)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (45:47.625)
Uh-huh, cringing, cringing.

Dan Johnson (45:48.715)
And I'm extremely critical on myself because I still don't feel like I'm a good archer. And I've been shooting since what? June. This year sucked for me. I didn't pick my bow up until June, I shot June, July, August, September. then, you know, I know guys, know, most guys, I shouldn't say most guys. There's guys that are shooting all year round. Are you an all year round shooter?

Jason Thibodeau (46:00.262)
Yeah.

Jason Thibodeau (46:16.772)
I try to be, this year's been a little bit different, but I try to shoot in 3D leagues and...

Little bit of outdoor competition and stuff. I don't use necessarily the same bow I dial back on the poundage and stuff a little bit for competitions and shooting and I have a nice range at home We're gonna stretch it out and shoot further and stuff. But this year was different. I'm probably in the same boat as you I didn't really get the bow out until about June and then we went to a couple competitions the kids and I did and then I started getting the hunting bow out and I Really honestly have not shot as much as I would like to

I'm critical on myself too. I wish I had more time to shoot, honestly. And I say that and it's an excuse because I literally could get up a half hour earlier and shoot in the basement, you know what, five, 10 yards and it'd be okay too.

Dan Johnson (47:07.918)
Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Just like blank bail some, down in the basement. Yeah. That's my goal in 2025 is to basically in my garage this winter, just shoot six feet into the target, you know, just to get the muscle memory there and do maybe, I don't know, 10 reps a day, maybe 15 arrows. I don't know, man, just something different, something different.

Jason Thibodeau (47:32.389)
Yep. Yeah, I agree.

Dan Johnson (47:37.305)
I wanna shoot more.

Jason Thibodeau (47:39.941)
I say that all the time. say it to my kids. say it to everybody I hunt with or shoot with. It just got to shoot more, period. So back to what I was saying, think strategy-wise, that is one of the biggest strategies as an archer is making sure that your stuff's dialed in and that you're ready to go. Just because season came along and you sighted it in two days ago doesn't mean it's going to be good a month from now.

Dan Johnson (48:02.785)
Yep, that's a fact. That's Okay. Safety harness, gotta wear that. Be safe, tell people where you're at. We've talked a little bit about strategy this time of year. In two weeks, we're gonna have a different tone in our voices, because we're gonna really start being excited for that pre-rut timeframe. Outside of that, man, just be as observant as possible with these deer.

Jason Thibodeau (48:20.806)
Yeah.

Dan Johnson (48:32.781)
this time of year can really tell you about a deer's home range. Like they're gonna start adjusting a little bit if they haven't already, but you're gonna probably start to see deer that you haven't seen before show up and be consistent in your property. And so once that consistency hits, you match it up with a shooting light and you gotta try to get in there. Or you put a game plan together to, okay, well he's in front of this camera or I've seen him.

Jason Thibodeau (48:48.478)
Mm-hmm.

Dan Johnson (49:01.325)
You know, driving in and out of a property at dark or wherever, and then you have to come in and you have to make a, put the strategy together. So don't necessarily stop thinking about it when you leave the woods. Put a little effort into the brain power before you get into the woods as well. And, and, you know, outside of the woods or you're driving to work or you're, know, don't do it while your wife's talking to you because you'll get distracted and then you'll get in trouble. But.

Jason Thibodeau (49:26.565)
Right.

Dan Johnson (49:30.135)
You know what I'm getting at there. So I think this is a good place to call it. Just be as observant as possible. Jason Mann, thanks for the insight today. Really appreciate you hopping on. And we look forward to the next one and the next one and the next one all the way until when does Illinois's hunting season end for deer?

Jason Thibodeau (49:50.778)
it's I think it's the middle of January and trust me. I will be out in the middle of January. So

Dan Johnson (49:54.008)
Okay.

Dan Johnson (49:57.655)
I love it. All right, man, hey, we'll talk to you later and good luck everybody. Be safe, wear your safety harness.

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