The Truth: Deer Dogs, Coonhounds and Honey Buns

Show Notes

Join us this week as Josh has the pleasure of sitting down with long time South Carolina Houndsman Mr Steven Green.  Josh and Steven discuss the unique hound culture in the state, from deer dogs to tree dogs, his upbringing and history in the sport from both the pleasure hunting and competition hunting circuit.  This is a conversation that dives deep into Southern Hound culture, as well as other topics ranging from the future of the sport, raising kids in the outdoors, and most importantly, how Mr Steven got the nickname, “Honey Bun.”  So sit back, relax, and enjoy another episode of THE TRUTH! Only on the Houndsman XP Podcast Network.

Show Transcript

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Josh Michaelis: All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Truth on the Houndsman XP podcast network. Today I'm lucky enough to be joined by my friend, my compatriot, and this weekend my roommate , Mr. Steven Green. Steven, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing great, Josh. All right. Now we're out here. We're out here at the Pro Port Truck Series, huh?

In Walterboro, South Carolina. And yesterday, if you go to the Joy Facebook page, you can see the live coverage we're doing of the event and all that stuff. And you told me during this live coverage, uh, I said, how'd you get the nickname, honey? And you said it's a long story. I see. He said, I'll get to it for this weekend's over when Now's your [00:03:00] chances, Steve.

I want to hear about it. Why they call you honey bun.

Steven Green: So I grew up deer dog hunting with my dad and my granddad. We hunted in club not far from here, Yi off the side of 95. And we've always had dogs. And, uh, my old man, for some reason, the last drive of the day, he'd make me sit on the truck. So we were sitting on the truck and it was getting, starting to get dark, and I heard some people come across the radio and said, uh, Hey Bubba, that was my dad, said, Bubba, your dogs are going to 95.

So I knew he was way across the road. Mm-hmm. , because he traveled. I mean, he drove the woods as hard as any man that's ever lived. So he had just bought a, I think it was a 1988 GMC Sierra. It was dark blue, four-wheel drive, long bed, and [00:04:00] I got in a truck and I went to go cut the dogs off. Well, you've seen the water and mm-hmm.

mud that's down here this weekend. I got that truck bogged down in a mud hole. Well, I wasn't supposed to be driving it anyway. , I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm 13 years old and, uh, actually I was 12. I, I hadn't turned 13 yet, and I got that thing stuck. So I, I'd seen them wedge logs and stuff under the tires and, you know, get a grip mm-hmm.

and pull 'em out. So there was a big old fat lighter stump over there, and that thing was probably as long as this table and it comb shaped. So I put the comb shape in up under the mud. of the tire trying to get traction to get outta that mud hole. Cause I already knew I was in trouble. Mm-hmm. . And I was gonna take that, I was gonna take that beating anyway,

And, uh, so I got in there and that thing had a three [00:05:00] 50 in it. And at that time, I didn't know what three 50 was or anything. Mm-hmm. , I, I didn't know it was that powerful.

Josh Michaelis: 88 GMC three 50. That was one of the best motors ever made. Yeah,

Steven Green: it was. It was strong. Yep. So I got on that thing and. , that tire started spinning and it grabbed hold of that lighter knot and it shot that lighter knot up through the bed of the truck.

went through the cab, busted the glass out, went through the front windshield, took the pillar and separated it. . And it's lucky it didn't kill me. It's lucky. Didn't go through the back of my head. I, I was just short enough to where it dismissed me. Yeah. So I sat there and I, I was crying. I was crying like a baby, cuz I knew I was fixing to get the worst whooping of my life.

So they came on the radio and they were like, um, they called me Little Bubba back then and they said, where are you at Little Bubba. [00:06:00] I wouldn't come on the radio, I wouldn't talk to nobody. I actually turned the radio off and I just sat there and, uh, it was about a hour later. truck lights come up behind me.

Well, it was my dad and Burt Load Holt, and they called Burt Load Holt in the mouth of the south. He lives over here in Early Branch . And uh, he walked up there and my old man was so mad he couldn't even talk. And Bert Load Hole, there was a honey bun sitting on the dash of the truck and Bert Load, Holt being the person he is.

He said, Bubba, you can't get mad at that boy. And Bubba said, what do you mean? He said, he just OD'ed on a honey bun . And that stuck with me all my life and, and honestly and truly, I can tell you this, most all of my friends that I consider true friends, you'll hear 'em call me Bun. Most of 'em have shortened it up.

Yeah. If somebody [00:07:00] calls me by my name, they don't really know me. . I'm just, you know, it's, it's stucked with me that long and it's just when I have my feed store, that's what everybody called me. Bun, you know, uh, uncles, that's what they called me. That's just, that was with my name. I know I've

Josh Michaelis: talked to a few people and I've said, well, with Steve Greener, I just got a phone with Steve Green.

They say, who? I said Steven Green from out there, South Carolina. Oh, bun. And I, that's, I didn't know your nickname was Honey Bun when they were first talking, you know, eight, 10 months ago, year ago. You know? I said, I don't know. I guess he goes, yeah, it's honey bun. Yeah. I said, okay, well, from now on you was Honey Bun and everybody called you Honey Buns.

So I called you Honey Bun .

Steven Green: That's right. I mean, that's this weekend the people you see come up to me. That's what they, you know. What'd your, what'd your dad say? Uh, he didn't say nothing. I, we went back, um, we actually had, um, old school buses gutted out. Mm-hmm. on the club, and that's what we slept in. And we went back there that night and I just, I looked at the ceiling.

and all I wanted to do [00:08:00] was go home. Mm-hmm. , I wanted my mama. Yeah. That's what I wanted. Because I knew that was only gonna be my saving grace because he still, I think if he'd have put a whooping on me, he probably wouldn't have got off because he was just so mad. But we drove home Monday. He bought, he went and bought another truck Monday.

Uh, yeah. At Hampton. Cuz he was originally from Hampton. Yeah. And, uh, we drove home. He never said a word about it.

Josh Michaelis: You don't, as a parent, and you may, you're gonna back me up on this I'm sure, but when my kids screw up and they don't take it rough on themselves, that's when they get in trouble. Yeah. That's when they get a whooping.

That's when they're, when they don't understand that they even done wrong and they don't think they done wrong. And I know they did. That's when they're in

Steven Green: trouble. Yeah. I try, I try to talk all my life. My, my daughter, I've never really had. , I could look at my daughter. Mm-hmm. . And that was all it took. Um, my son, [00:09:00] he's like me.

He's real strong-willed. Um, yeah. So it took a little bit more for him. But I always said that I, when I, if I had, if God blessed me with children, that I would just, you know, try to, try to do better. And I always try to talk to my kids first and I like for them to tell me, you know, Hey, I did wrong. And they still know they're gonna get disciplined.

Yeah. But when they do it like that, that means to me that they, they understand that they've done wrong and they, let's, let's try to, you know, grow from this experience. So, but back when I was a kid, I got my butt tore up. Regular . I mean, I was just that kid, you know? I mean, and it didn't hurt me. It made me, it made me a man.

I don't hold it against my dad. I mean, he, you know, I'm sure everything that I got got for. I deserved every bit of

Josh Michaelis: it. I was blessed enough to be raised a good portion of my life by my grandparents who had had eight kids of their own, uh, my older brother off and on, and foster kids. And I [00:10:00] don't, at one time my grandma put like 13, 14 kids on the school bus.

So I'd done seeing all these kids get their butts. I was the youngest, I was the baby, and I got unseen. All these kids get their butt whooped every time they'd done something wrong. So I thought, well, I'm at least not gonna get caught. . I

Steven Green: didn't want no part of that.

Josh Michaelis: So I'd got a few whoopings every now and then, but now I tried to be good.

Whenever I knew that that was the opportunity I was going to get, you know, as a whooping, I, I'm gonna, these guys led by example. Now my brother took them. My brother took several of 'em, but I looked around and thought, huh, I don't want none of that. That hurts .

Steven Green: I took a lot more than my brother did, but he was the baby.

So, yeah.

Josh Michaelis: Is he talking. Deer hunting backer, deer hunting with dogs. And one thing I wanna talk about on this podcast is we're out here and, uh, when we agreed to do the pro sport coverage and stuff like that, and I seen they were coming out to Walterboro, and it's a good haul from my house. It's an 18 hour trip.

Uh, I've never been out here. It gives me an opportunity to see, I mean, I've been to South Carolina, but you know, you go to Charleston or [00:11:00] you go to Myrtle Beach or something. That's not South Carolina. That's, that's just where that's commercial. Yeah, that's where the tourists go. You know, I've been there multiple times and uh, matter of fact, if Lauren's listening to this, my cousin, she goes, oh, I love South Carolina.

And I like to look at the old plantation. I say South Carolina, I said, south, south Carolina's at this coon hunt we're getting ready to go to. And that's what I wanna see. That's right. But uh, you know, it gives me the opportunity to see a different area and different style of hunting different dogs and stuff like that.

And that's one reason I want to do this with you of course, is you've been out here doing this for how many years?

Steven Green: Well, I'd turned 50 in September and I've been doing it. since I was a kid. Yeah. Um, I've been blessed to hunt with some of the best in this state, some of the worst in this state. Yeah. Uh, I've got to hunt pretty much every piece of terrain you could give me in this state.

And we, we've got it all here. I mean, when you can go to mountains, you can go to Rolling Hill, Sandhills, and then you're in this part, what we call the low country. Mm-hmm. , the low country is my [00:12:00] favorite place of the state just because of, you know, the people. The people are a little bit different down here.

um, great people. Yes. Um, great people. And the hunting down here in the low country has been a tradition for, I can't even tell you how many years. I mean, so going back. Too. I started my, my fa my dad was a big dear dog hunter, so was my grandfather. And, and they um, you know, they inter I was introduced into that and I absolutely love it.

Um, it's exciting. It's great for kids. Um, it's, it's starting to die out a little bit in the state, but we still have a lot of good dog clubs in the state of South

Josh Michaelis: Carolina. When you say dog clubs, that's something cuz our western guys are big game guys and stuff. They're not gonna understand that A lot of our Midwestern coon [00:13:00] hundreds and.

Stuff. You know, there's no such thing as dog clubs where we're at. So these are just straight up big leases just for deer dogs.

Steven Green: What? Yeah. What it is is temp, a lot of it's timber company land. Yeah. And a lot of it's privately owned farmland. And, um, you lease from the timber company, you know, they have tens of thousands of acres.

Mm-hmm. , which is dwindled down some. Um, the club that we used to hunt in at in yi, we had about 20,000 consecutive acres. Yeah. It was just one big old block of woods divided up by roads. Um, and you know, you get farmers and it actually helps the farmers because they'll lease it out. You're helping 'em in a couple ways.

Everybody knows the damage that deer due to crops. Farmers lose money and it also helps farmers pay. With those leases. Yeah. So it's a win-win for, you know, a lot of it, but that's pretty much when you say, you know, dog clubs, [00:14:00] that's what they are. Yeah. And there's, some of these dog clubs have been around for, I don't know, 60, 70 years.


Josh Michaelis: farther you get east of the Mississippi. And I've been, I'm not a big fan of east of the Mississippi in most places now. There's pockets, uh, to us, considering where we live. We got, I'm gonna ballpark it, maybe 3000 people in our county, maybe in the surrounding counties. Probably about the same number.

I mean, there just ain't no folks. And when I get east of the Mississippi and you look at, you know, the Ohios parts of Indiana, Illinois, where you're hunting at the world Hunt, it's just so crowded to us. You know, there's folks everywhere. Mm-hmm. , uh, but right here, and I drove all this, you know, in the daylight.

I stopped in Tennessee of course, and visited with Hoop and Taylor and then drove the rest. And I thought, man, it's just, so many people. So many people. So many people. Then I get to Walterboro and then I can see where you guys are hunting and I can see these big tracks of woods and things like that. And so it's, it's pretty country in a pretty, you know, getting more crowded area.

[00:15:00] Is that going to be a problem for these deer hunters? Cause you know, it's the same thing everywhere. There's, and I can't blame anybody for wanting to get outta the city. Uh, we've all been to those places and we don't wanna be there either. But, you know, these, these guys come up and they, they're breaking these big chunks of ground up, you know, everywhere Texas to home is, they're doing the same thing here.

Steven Green: Yeah. Because the, the big thing for probably the last 10 years in this state that I've seen is people buying five and 10 acre tracks. Yeah. Yeah. And they want to get away from the. and they have 'em with a call 'em like a mini farm or whatever. Yeah. And that's, uh, so when they do sell these places at, at 10 acres is more than one acre.

So they used to put 10 houses, a eight, a house on each acre. Mm-hmm. now they're putting one on 10. Yeah. So you're talking about, you know, so Yeah. It, it does, it does affect the, the ground we have in timber, uh, they cut a lot of timber in this state. Yeah. A lot of timber. And, uh, that affects it. Yeah. The, the [00:16:00] hunting.

Especially on the, on the deer hunting side. Yeah. What do those,

Josh Michaelis: what do those dogs do? I mean, cuz you got cutovers everywhere, you know it's a timber lease. If you're hunting a timber lease. I mean, you just try to avoid those spots. No, there ain't nothing you can do about it.

Steven Green: See actually your cutovers is where you, where you want to be, where, where the deer are.

Those deer bed up in there and um, yep. Uh, smaller pines. Yeah. Thicker. The thicker the plantation type stuff. There's no cover for 'em. They're not gonna be there really. They wanna be where cover is. They want, you know, undergrowth, briars protection. Yeah. And so cutovers are actually, if they grow up in a co, you know, if they cut it, it'll take three or four years for it to come back.

To start coming back about year four. It's perfect. Really. So a lot of these lease. You just want 'em to replant Yeah. And replant quickly so you can get that cut over and that growth start coming up because it'll hold more deer. We're gonna get,

Josh Michaelis: let's get into the coon hunting here in a little bit. But before we do that, cuz deer dogs fascinate me and the deer hunting culture in the [00:17:00] southeast fascinates me.

Uh, I'm yet to be able to take part in it. Any of it. Next time I'm out here, we're gonna line up and deer

Steven Green: hunting. I'm gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna come

Josh Michaelis: dog hunting with me this winter. Yeah. Because I think it's going to be, it always look like it would just be an absolute blast. It

Steven Green: is. You know, it's

Josh Michaelis: more fun than you ever dream.

Yeah. So take me on. You're, it's Thur or Friday night you're headed to your, to your dog, dog leash, your dog camp. And you're gonna stay Friday night hunt. Saturday morning. What's Saturday morning

Steven Green: look like? So Saturday morning you'll get there early. Mm-hmm. real early. Uh, and then you see how many people you have.

You have standards and you have dog men. Yeah. Your standards, they surround the block that you're running and then you strategically put your dog packs. . So to run the deer out? Yeah. So they'll draw, they'll, they'll draw however many peoples at the club. They, they figure out what drives they're gonna hunt that day.

They try not to hunt. We try not to hunt the same drives like only once a month. Really. We don't try [00:18:00] to over hunt it. Yeah. You know, sometimes I have been in clubs where the land is smaller and we only hunt three Saturdays out of four and never hunt and rotate. Right. And that keeps your neighbors good too.

Because that's one thing about dog hunting. If you're steady in there pounding the same track of land every Saturday mm-hmm. , you get some upset neighbors if you're only there one Saturday and they kind of know, and they pa you know, they're aware of it and it works better. And that's, that's a big thing down here in the state of South Carolina is, you know, keeping your neighbors happy with dog hunting and, and Garmin's really dog hunting would've probably, been demolished down here, but garments have basically saved it.

Yeah. Because we have more control. We know where they are. We can cut 'em off, keep 'em on our land off of other landowners, because most places in this state, if there's a, if there's a dog club right here, there's a steel hunting club probably on both sides. Right. [00:19:00] And you know, they, they don't want you messing up their hunt, which is understandable.

Um, so you, you gotta keep your neighbors happy down here with that. But garments have really, really helped us. If we'd have had garins 20 years ago, dog hunting would still be as big as it is in the state of South Carolina. Yeah. It really would be. Um, so, but you know, and then you, you, you usually do two drives in the morning, break for lunch, and some clubs do two in the evening.

I prefer the clubs that do one in the evening. Because about four o'clock I'm ready to go home. Yep. Be with the family and stuff. Yep. Get everything put up. And, but that's, that's a typical day in the deer dog woods. Um, and it's very, it's very, very kid friendly. Yeah. A lot of kids really enjoy it because they don't have to sit up in a stand.

Right. They don't have to be quiet. They can make noise. Yeah. You know, and it's just a, it's just a, it's fun. Yeah. It's a fun time for 'em. So [00:20:00] I really enjoy watching youth kids get into deer dog hunting starting out.

Josh Michaelis: That, that reminds me a lot of, when I went to Wisconsin bear hunting and just the amount of families that took part in that.

It wouldn't just be, you know, cuz don't get me wrong, my kids Koon hunt and they love their dogs and stuff, but it's a Monday night. They got school on Tuesday to have, and. with that culture, with starting these kids on deer dogs and stuff like that. You look at a, a gentleman like yourself that you said you was out there 12 years old with your daddy running deer dogs and stuff, and coon dogs I assume was a natural transition for you.

Steven Green: Yeah. Yeah. Um, my uncles were, uh, big time coon hunters and, you know, I had to wait till a certain age to Yeah. To play in the dark. But getting back, one thing I wanna say, you talk about, you know, kids and families and stuff at the Bear Hunt, our club, there's, there's wives. Mm-hmm. girlfriends, children. I'm [00:21:00] talking about.

Three and four and five kids pile up in one truck and we put 'em with dog men and they just absolutely, they'll sit on that pack of that dog box. They'll have a red rider, BB gun shooting at deer coming across the road. I mean, it's just, it's just fun, you know? Yeah. And it's what, to me, I think a lot of kids need it.

And we have boys and girls that do do it in our club. I mean, they just, the outdoors is good. It is healthy for kids. It is. Especially now. Yeah. That's why I'm saying it's a, he, it's a healthy getaway


Josh Michaelis: kids. It's no more important than it is right now in 2023 to get those kids into an outdoor sport. I agree.

Steven Green: I absolutely agree.

Josh Michaelis: So speaking of that, how'd you get into coon

Steven Green: hunting? So, I, um, I had uncles that, that did it and, um, just started pleasure hunting at first. and, uh, they didn't competition hunt much how they, they were in the local, [00:22:00] the local coon club. Uh, and, but they didn't competition hunt a lot. And I had a friend, Tim Kirby, um, he's a barber.

Mm-hmm. up there where I live. And, uh, I went over and got my haircut on. He said, you ought to go to this hunt tonight with me. So I got, we packed up in the truck and went, and I'm gonna tell you what I was bit from day one. Day one. So I started competition hunting and, uh, really it never looked back. And, uh, but I, I, I absolutely loved the pleasure hunting side, especially when I can, uh, like around me, I, I got Tyler, his son Brenner.

Brandon, Kelly, Casey, Kelly, James Taylor and James Tool. That's our, that's the mm-hmm. our ground. And I just love going pleasure hunting with those guys. They're younger than me. Um, and I just enjoy it. It's, it's something I enjoy doing. And then we go to hunts and stuff and you [00:23:00] know, hit one here and I don't hit the hunts like I used to because I made a promise to my wife when my son was born that I was gonna slow down.

Yeah. And then most people can tell you I used to be at one every night somewhere. I'd be at one. And uh, so yeah, that's how I kind of got started in the coon hunting, you know, just I got to an age where I was allowed to stay out, you know, get outta school and go, I could go till 10 or 11 and get home as long as I got up and everything was right.

You know? And so we did that and I've just been doing it ever

Josh Michaelis: since when you transitioned, cuz we all make that transition from pleasure, hunter. to competing. Uh, when did you, was it right away that you wanted to go to a Coon hunt? Were you reading about 'em in the magazines as a young kid, or was it something that you just kind of worked your way into

Steven Green: gradually?

Yeah, I never, never did get the magazines when I was young. It's like I said, when I, I went with Tim up to a local hunt. Yeah, it was a [00:24:00] Pkc hunt. Pkc just started here in this state then, which Tim had, Tim Kramer had a very big part in that. Yeah. He's always, you know, had that for the state. And, but we went, I went to that hunt with them and they told me to take, bring my dog, but I, I said, no, I, I just want to go spectate.

I want to see what it's all about. And I got out there and I was like, man, I was like, I could've, I could've won this cast with my dog if I'd brought it, you know? That's what I said to myself, that's what everybody thinks, ain't . I said that to myself. And, um, so they had another local one next, the next week.

Back then, we only had the clubs only had one a month. and we had a few clubs around there. So they had 'em strategically planned out where you could get, go to one, one once a week. You know, once didn't really have weekday hunts hardly. Yeah. It's always a Friday or Saturday deal. But they had 'em spread out.

We drew 30, 35 dogs, every one of them. Yeah. I mean it was really competitive. Good dogs too. [00:25:00] And I went to my first one and I actually won it. And so you weren't, you

Josh Michaelis: weren't you, you were serious. Yeah. You said I could have won that casting. You actually could've. I said

Steven Green: that I don't, 10 years before everyone won.

I don't know if that was just me thinking that I could have won it. Yeah. But I got, I went to my first one and I won it, and then it was about 20 straight that I lost. Yep. And I got humbled very quickly about, but I also noticed that I had a pleasure dog trying to compete with competition dogs. So then I went on a mission to try to learn exactly what it took.

mm-hmm. to compete with these other g these big time guys, these guys that are winning. And, uh, I'll never forget, I went to the Sunshine Jamboree when it was in Thomasville the first time. That was maybe 90, 91. Um, and that was two or 300 dogs down there. And [00:26:00] I drew out with my old pleasure dog, and, uh, I mustered up a cast win and I don't know how I did it.

Mm-hmm. , uh, I, I was hunting against way more powerful dogs. Yeah. The dogs that you see in the standings and stuff, you know. And uh, after that I started looking for a dog and my grandmother and my grandfather, they were the best to me. And my grandmom said, , you're all right. She said,

She said, boy, she said, you go find your dog. She said, I don't care what it costs and your granddad don't buy it for you. She said, cuz I think this is the best thing for you. So I went and I got me one and I did some D home winning without sucker. [00:27:00] And he died on me with kidney failure. And that old doll showed me what it took to compete.

And I was very competitive after that. So there was a man named Charles Scott who lived in Lawrence. He was a, I guess you say he was a money man. And, uh, he'd buy me and Tim whatever we wanted. And, uh, we actually bought, we actually bought crank from Kurt Aaron. He, he wanted crank bad. The plot. Yeah, the plot we owned, we owned Crank the big plot doll, which I'm sure he wasn't full-blooded plot cuz he didn't, he didn't move.

Like he one, he was a, he was a, he was a pretty bad outfit. But anyway, um, I, I bought Nick Alberton was getting out. I bought Sand Creek Squier from him. I told Charles, I said I want Squealer. She was nine years old then, [00:28:00] but she was one of the most dominant cast winners I ever seen in my life. I think she was deaf.

She couldn't hear another dog. Yeah. And she treated two or three coon around every other dog. And she just, I just consistently showed up with her and uh, I did a lot of winning with her. And we bought Trip, my trigger from Wyatt Wright, which we bought a couple. We bought the Rat Dog and the Ghost Dog from Wyatt.

And uh, I hunted Trigger, I did a lot of winning with Trigger. Um,

let's see,

Josh Michaelis: what was the name of the dog your grandma bought you?

Steven Green: There was a dog called Diamond Sam. He actually won, uh, that big, uh, hunt out there with y'all. Battle of Breeds. Mm-hmm. . 8, 8 8, Oklahoma. The Truth on the Homan XP podcast network is proud to partner with Cajun lights. Cajun lights can outfit all of your hunting light needs.

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They've got briar proof clothing coming out. They got a jacket out right now. That's really nice. I put the vest through the paces this last bear season in Coon season. Couldn't be happier with that. I can't find anything there that I, that I don't like. And I like dealing with LW [00:30:00] Nixon and Cajun lights.

So check 'em out. You can go to houndsman You can follow that link to Cajun Lights right from our website. Check him out folks. He was, he was a dog. That was way before his time. He was a road runner. Took me a while to figure him out. But you'd cut that sucker and he'd be a mile in, less than like five minutes and he'd be treated.

And what he would do is he'd go find a road and he'd road hunt and he'd just peel off this ditch or peel off this creek or, and , I tell you, when I, I caught him, that's the dog I took to, uh, plot days. P Casey plot days when I first time ever drew Scotty, uh, Engel and uh, up there. And uh, we cut him in this section and he peeled right back out, down about 50 yards down the road and you could hear his toenails clopping the pavement.

And, uh, somebody turned their light on him and it was him. And he went right down there to the creek cuz we [00:31:00] turned up the hill about a quarter. It was about a quarter from the creek. He went right there and treated about 25 yards off the road and. . That was when I figured out he, that's, that was his style.

Yeah. And most people hated drawing him locally. They hated they cuz they knew they were gonna get gutted. Yeah. He, he'd gut you. I mean, he just, he'd walk you to death. And, uh, but he always had a coon when he parked every time I never went to a tree. Um, and he, uh, he died a kit. His, he had renal failure and uh, they think he got into some kind of chemical Yeah.

Farm. Yep. Uh, and it, it cut his life a little bit short, but he was a heck of a hound. Um, but at, at about that time, I started seeing what it took, you know, to compete, you know, you needed a dog to treat Koons fast. Yeah. More Koons. You scored than 120 minutes. What year was that? Uh, maybe 90, 92.

Josh Michaelis: Okay. So [00:32:00] 92 good.

We're hunting, you said He was before his time. I mean, there's a dog. right there. And just in, just, I'm gonna give him as an example. Uh, I wasn't competition hunting at all. I mean, I'd been, I was local u KC hunting when I was 12, you know, but it was the same guys as your pleasure hunted against all good dogs.

But, uh, you said he was before his time in 92 when you lined four dogs up and you cut 'em loose for two hours, I would venture to say nine outta 10 cast, those dogs are on every single tree together. Well,

Steven Green: this is, this is when I, when I hunted in, this is what I saw. And, and a lot of it has to do with the type of terrain you're in.

Yeah. See,

Josh Michaelis: we were regional. I mean, this is just, just a Yeah. I never hunted over 50 miles from my house at that point. Right. You know, but that's what I remember when even pleasure hunting, uh, you turn dogs loose, they treat together. Yeah. Everybody argued about who treat it first. Right. Whether it was a coon hunt or a pleasure hunt.

And then you went in and you done it again. [00:33:00]

Steven Green: Yeah. So they, they. Best of my knowledge to re to remember remembering this stuff. We'd have a couple dogs that would always pack up. Yeah. But then there was always one or two in that cast that would get off to themself at some point. Right now, uh, in this country where I live, you've gotta get a piece of it out of the truck and then you want to recut and be by yourself, and that's how you went.

Josh Michaelis: So nothing's changed on that point. No, because that's especially right here with pro sport. That's what hurts some of our dogs, you know, that are leash lock rule. Ready is they're not quick enough. Yeah. They're not gonna cover that coon out of the truck. Sometimes they're not even going to stay if that coon if they get covered out of the truck.

And so you got, you're treeing for a quarter out of the truck. If you're treeing it all, even if you tree it, because with rain seeing con du, well not dud so much, but most [00:34:00] of the stuff that we're hunting. You, you take that quarter outta the pickup cuz you don't know if them dogs are gonna be there, you know?

And so that hurts in propo. Yeah. You know, we've won a truck in pro sport and we've done well, but it wasn't because we were to, you know, it was just different. Right. But right now you're seeing more dogs, little cover out of the truck, maybe even cover off the recut a little bit and slide over there and get one by themselves and stuff like that.

And that's the kind you said you wanted back then, and that's the kind I'd really like to

Steven Green: have now. Mm-hmm. . Yep. And that's, that's kind of, that's kind of what I try, um, because most of the time, if you think about it, you're gonna be hunting around your house. Yeah. So you want your dog to fit what you're hunting.

Mm-hmm. , if you're in big Woods, he don't never have to be with another dog. Right. But as land shrinkage happens, because we talked about earlier, these houses, subdivisions, golf courses where I live, there's either a horse farm. a golf course or

Josh Michaelis: subdivision. Everyone gripes about the deer hunters and the [00:35:00] people moving in from the city.

But I'm, I think we need to boycott the horse farm. Yeah. Them horse them horse people are hard on . They are,

Steven Green: they are. They could, they'll, they'll cla they'll flatten some of the best timber you've ever seen. Not think twice about it. But, um, so, you know, that's, that's changed from me going to being able to hunt everywhere and having big blocks of wood.

Yeah. Where I could, I could hunt a dog that was consistently by itself and be okay, but now I don't have that. So if I'm hand-picking the dog and drawing it, drawing him up like I want to on paper, I want him to, and I don't know how I care how he gets it. If I can, I want a hundred strike in whatever piece of that first tree I get.

I just want to be on the positive side of things. Mm-hmm. . All right. And then I want to recut. because I know I'm gonna hunt a dog that's going to be by himself. Yeah. On a recut. It's gonna get quiet and he can sink in there a half. Yeah. Three [00:36:00] quarters and be by himself before anything can cover him. And so now you've gone to these progressive tree rules, which I absolutely like.

Yeah. Whether I win or get beat on him, I absolutely like him because that keeps the backpacker to cover. It keeps him at, at bay is what I'm saying. So, well, let's,

Josh Michaelis: I want to touch on some rules and some where the sport's going as far as the competition side of it. But last night we were talking on the live feed about, about the, uh, oyster beds in the tide.

And I know it, it, it's, I don't think you understand how foreign that is to everybody from about, I don't know, 200 miles from here and west. Uh, dogs getting their feet cut up in oyster beds. how the tide affects the, I was fascinated by that last night when you were explaining to me that you want a high tide when you turn loose in these places and stuff.

So what, [00:37:00] when we're talking about oyster beds and the trouble that they give these dogs, explain that to everybody.

Steven Green: So when the tide goes out, it takes all the, all the water out of these creeks, uh, and it pulls the moon, pulls the tide out. So they, it is basically making it a dry bed. So these oyster beds are up under here.

So these coons, when that tide goes out, there's king coons go out there. Then they crack them oysters and they feed on them moistures. All right? The dog gets out there and runs. There's not a tree within miles and them things. Mm-hmm. . So a dog gets out there and that coon just runs around and it's called plum mud.

It's all black mud. It'll sink you up to your neck. I mean, it's terrible. It's the worst stuff you've ever been in your life. You think you die, you're going quick sand or something. Yeah. So the dogs get out there and they, they. , they have a hard time maneuvering in it and those coons just walk across the top of it.

Mm-hmm. and they just run around in circles out there, just, just running and run 'em and run 'em and run 'em. Um, I don't know if you heard, um, fish last [00:38:00] night, you know, he was talking about his dog stayed in the marsh two hours. Really? Yeah. And had to go get, it's cuz Tide was loved. So if the tide's high, it pushes the Koons back up on the land on these islands.

Timbered dogs don't get out there. They trick Koons. Yeah. So at eight o'clock last night, it was dead low tide. So those guys were hunting in the worst time of the tide that they could hunt on the marsh. Mm-hmm. . But the late round it was gonna be high tide at one o'clock it was gonna be perfect. So a lot of guides down here, they try to pick and choose their places and they'll stay away from that.

And no matter how good it is, they'll stay away from it. During low tide. During low tide. Yeah. And then when the tide's right, they'll go, they'll go hunt that. So it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's something different, but

Josh Michaelis: it's, yeah. In the oyster beds, with the crack shells and all that stuff, they're hard on the dog's feet.

Oh, they're sharp as

Steven Green: razor blades [00:39:00] bud. Really? Yes, sir. They'll cut a dog's feet up. They get infected because all the algae and stuff on them. Yeah. It'll just slice 'em open. Their feet will swell up big as my fist. I've, I had a dog one time that she, she absolutely just, I think she enjoyed it. Yeah. And uh, I would come down here and hunt and it'd take me 10, 20 days to get her healed up.

Soaking and eps and salt every day and, and it just, yeah. It's, it's no good for 'em. Do

Josh Michaelis: some dogs naturally that, that hunt this terrain all the time. Just say, . I'm not getting in that fluff

Steven Green: mode. Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you they can, they just not help it. I'm gonna tell you this, they're not gonna help it cuz the Koons are running out there.

Mm-hmm. . But I'm gonna tell you what will help it. The man behind the leash. Yeah. He can make 'em stay from out there. Yeah. He can send them a text message and say, Hey, get out of the marsh. Get back up here on dry land. The can tree up here. Trees are up here. It's no different than our cornfield race. So it's training.

Yeah, it's it's training. You want to train them. But I'm gonna tell you something. Tim Kramer had a female called Swift Creek and [00:40:00] Strickland probably just told you about it. Yeah, yeah. We were just talking about everything. We were just talking about in and was the best at taking us, taking two or three dogs in the marsh, leaving them in there and then coming back up.

Trina Coon on you. She could take a co and, and she could take a coon out of the marsh and put him back on from dry land. She was one of the best I've ever seen. I've never seen one any better than I,

Josh Michaelis: I got a theory. The trader dog's feet are so terrible. and they flat and they look like a mu scrap foot. I think they would get in that fluff mode and be all right

Hey, I think maybe it'd be like snowshoes, . They may,

Steven Green: but I'm gonna tell you what those oyster shells, they take no pity on any of them. Yeah. I mean, it's like walking on razor blades and I mean, you get those oyster beds, they're bigger, bigger around as this room in here. Really? Yes, sir. They're huge,

Josh Michaelis: huh?

Yeah. Well, and, and that just goes to show you, and of course this goes out. I think, uh, I don't know, I'm gonna guess 30, 40 countries are listening to [00:41:00] this podcast, and of course most of the United States, I don't know if we got any listeners in Hawaii or a us or not. We probably do, but there's such a variation in terrain.

You're talking about shocking 'em outta the oyster beds and getting 'em outta there. And, and dogs can learn that, you know, with the right handler and stuff. And I, I was just picturing cornfield races in July. when them do them, coons won't leave That corn. You getting them big corn fields, they ain't leaving it.

Them dogs will running them things around and run 'em around. And I hate, I won't turn, loosen standing corn in the summer at home if I'm pleasure hunt now if I want to, if I'm getting ready to go out to Indiana for the Labor Day Classic or something like that. And I know I'm gonna be in those things, you know, I'll turn loose.

But we, we buzz 'em out of them things all the time. Yeah. We don't want 'em in there. Yeah.

Steven Green: Bean fields are the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. They're, yeah. You, you can't tree a can in a cornfield or bean

Josh Michaelis: field. No. And what makes a dog and I think, you know, you talk to lion guys and you talk to big game guys and they want that dog that's just going to take that track cuz [00:42:00] with the lion say, say Brett Vaughns hunting.

Hunting, dry ground lions and there's one track. That's it. There's one track. He wants the dog to hit that track no matter how bad it is and finish it. And we don't. want that. We have the luxury of having multiple tracks, and so we want our dogs to pick the tracks. Mm-hmm. , you know, it's a completely different situation, but these dogs that stay in them bean fields and stay in them oyster fields and stay in the corn fields or whatever, I think they're just that one track minded dog that, you know, you're gonna have to do something with him, or he is gonna stay there until you catch him, or he finally gets it caught

Steven Green: or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and I can speak for the marsh. There's so many coons that feed out there, those marshes. Yeah. There's, there's a million tracks, so they never, they never lose. It's always a hot track out there. Yeah. They got that guy because Guy, because it's just about like, it's like God ringing the deaner bell.

You know what I. free Oysters boys, . Yeah. [00:43:00] And they all come to the, that's where they go. I mean, that's

Josh Michaelis: the guy that likes oysters. I'd be out there too. Yes, sir.

Steven Green: If I was kid. Me too. I love them. One of my favorite feets shrimping oysters is my favorite. Yep. But that's, that's basically what it is. It's, it's no different than a deer feeder with a timer going off that goes click, click, click, and there's 15 coons sitting up and around that little old feed plot.

They come down, eat the corn. Yeah. Go back up. Same way with those coons. They go up, they sit up there in sun during the day, wait till the tide goes back, wait till that tide goes where there's, whether it's the middle of the day or if it's the middle of the night and they're out there feeding. Hmm. And I mean, you know, so it's a million hot tracks out there.

And that's why dogs stay in the marsh because when they're running a track, they just run over top of the other one and it's just hot as the one the left. And they stay there. When

Josh Michaelis: we talk about different trains, different country, our end goal on the competition side of it is to be under. More coons than the dogs next to you.

That's it. I mean, bottom [00:44:00] line is, and people can talk about, oh, it's a competition dog. It ain't fun to pleasure hunt or it, it's, it's just running wild and, and it's barking too much and it's, it's just a babbling idiot and all that stuff. But in the end, and most of these casts, what people don't understand, the dog that trees the most coons or is under the most coons, whether it be covering treeing, whatever, is gonna win 99 out of a

Steven Green: hundred of those casts.

No doubt. And a lot of times the covering dog that gets a piece of mind gets a piece of yours. Yeah. Gets a piece of the next guys, when you tally it up, after 120 minutes, he's got your B. Yeah. And

Josh Michaelis: that's, there's folks, and don't get me wrong, I hate a dog that covers, I'm sure you do too. And most of these guys do too.

But it's getting to the point now, and this is one of the points I wanted to get into, is we tailor made. We tailor make these dogs to rule sets. Mm-hmm. , we have for years, uh, we've done it ever since the beginning of competition, coon hunting, and now with [00:45:00] pro sport and U KC with no leash lock and pkc with the leash lock.

You know, those are the three made kennel clubs. Those are the ones that people are making a living off of. We, we, we can mold these dogs really quickly. It doesn't take but a couple generations or a guy with a checkbook to go find the right dog to win the right hunt.

Steven Green: And I tell you something too, that I believe in the, the introduction of the Garmin Yeah.

Has absolutely made that so much simpler because you're not, you're, you're, you're understanding more of what he's, how he's moving around Yeah. And where

Josh Michaelis: he's at. Well, you talked about your dog that was running the road and it took you a long time to figure out what he was doing. Yeah. You didn't known that in five minutes.


Steven Green: didn't gone, yeah. The first time I hunted. Yeah. and it, he was just so good at it. Yeah. He was really sneaky. It was just that one night he slipped up. Yeah. And he let me know. And, uh, yeah. But I think, I think that has a lot to play in the way we have these dogs. The rules. We're always gonna try [00:46:00] to have a dog that fits the rules.

Mm-hmm. , um, you know, there's been different, you know, there's been different rule changes and most of 'em didn't work and you always go back to how it was because it was right the first time on most occasions. Yeah, I agree. Um,

Josh Michaelis: except for the leash lock. I'm gonna, I'm going to let my line in the sand. . Yeah.

I wish the PKC

Steven Green: would've left it off. Yeah. I, I, I agree to that because I mean, if you're paying the hunt and, and I've won, I've won by the leash lock and I've lost by the leash lock. I have to, and so, I mean, it's a double edged sword with pretty much everybody, but real and, and being honest. If you're just being honest with yourself.

You want that the dog and the dogs against you to be able to go, because it's, it's like this on the leash, he's not gonna make any mistakes. Yeah. But off the leash, he's got that opportunity to go tree a slick, get out of the pocket and you still have a better chance [00:47:00] of winning. Yeah. Um, you know, so I, I agree with you.

I like not having a leash lock. I'm all for the, not, not the leash lock, but I tell you one thing that I don't, I don't like and I don't hunt as many hunts as I used to and I don't really have as big a voice in it or say so cuz a lot of guys that are hunting, but I absolutely cannot stand when people try to make a m a rule to fit their dog at the time Yep.

Of the dog. They're hunting and then the next dog that they have, they want to change it because it doesn't fit them.

Josh Michaelis: Them. Yep. Yep. Like you see

Steven Green: that all the time. So I, I really, I really don't like that, that part of it, uh, . I, I just wish you'd leave rules alone. Yep. And, um,

Josh Michaelis: I actually wanted to, I think U K C does it right, and that they change rules by vote one time every year.

Yep. I think, uh, PKC should fall a suit. I believe pro sports should as well, as far as just have a, [00:48:00] my proposal was you can only change a rule between October and October with a 100% unanimous vote from the national directors. It's the only time you can change it in October at the World Hunt. All the national directors, they sit down, they vote on the rule changes, and a majority can change it then.

That way it's had a year to sit in there to see what's effective, see what isn't, and then. . And if the members don't like it, then they can voice their opinions to the national directors. National directors can vote on it once a year. If you bring a ballot measure up between October and October and the competition year, it's gotta be unanimous.

Yeah. And one person votes no, then it's not, then it's a no.

Steven Green: You know, I was, I was reading over last night in between, while we were waiting on cast to come in from the early round to the late round, I was reading over Pro Sports Rules just because it was just something for me to do. You know? And ho honestly, to me, they, their rules are right.[00:49:00]

Yeah. I think so. I, I didn't see one place where I would say, Hey, that, that, that rule stinks. They need to change it. Yeah. They, I think that the thing that they've done that most of the other kennel clubs don't, haven't done is they listen to people and they listen to the right people, and they establish those rules.

And those rules work because honestly, And I'm gonna say this and I might get some FLA slash back on it, but the, the rules that they have are the old PKC rules. Mm-hmm. basically, it's just, it's cut and dry. Yeah. There's no, I mean, you know, it, it's right there, black and white.

Josh Michaelis: And the, the only thing with pro port is you're gonna walk a lot.

In some cases you're gonna walk extra than you would in pkc. Uh, and it's a, it's the pkc style of hound, and so it's going to kind of up the ante as opposed to a lot of little local u KC hunts when dogs are liable, more liable to be together. But [00:50:00] as people, and I see this going on this year, there are more dogs that are in that first tree.

We turned loose down to Buffalo with that pro classics $6,500 entry and we had four dogs on the same tree multiple times, you know, two, three times. And you never seen that two years ago, right? Never seen it. But these guys are seeing with pro sport, these are the same guys that are hunting pro sport.

They're seeing that these dogs have got to be treed. They gotta get a piece of that first coon. Uh, you don't have the opportunity with someone that struck for a hundred and that trails around all night and to leash lock 'em cuz the dog get, treat A coon for 150 may get a piece of your 200 mm-hmm. and now you're screwed cuz you've trailed around for two hours.

You've treated for 200. That dog comes in for a quarter and a quarter and you're beat. Yep. And so we just, it takes a while for the dogs to evolve and for the handlers to evolve and stuff like that. But in the end, what we really want, Steven, in my opinion, is dogs that are a pleasure to hunt through. and that you can still [00:51:00] go win a truck on the weekend or you can win a hundred thousand dollars on the weekend.

That's, that's the end goal. That

Steven Green: is, that is absolutely what it is. It's, you know, I agree with you a hundred percent because that's what I want. Yeah. I mean, it, let's, let's just put, if I want to hunt during the week and then I get a wild hair and I say, you know what? They got a pro sport hunt down here in Waterbury right here, buddy.

Right. I'm gonna give it a whirl, you know, and I can compete. I feel like I can compete. Um, that's what I'm looking for. I mean, I've got a dog right now that , I feel I can compete anywhere with him now, do I? No, I don't. I, I don't because of family and I work for Joy and I work for another company and, uh, family time.

Yeah. So, you know, it's easier for me to be with my family till 10 o'clock at night. and they go to bed and I go coon hunting. Yep. For daylight. Come back home and, uh, I get [00:52:00] enjoy. I en I enjoy that. Yep. And, and I still enjoy the competitive side. I do. I I always will. Even when I can't go, I still, I still keep up with it.

I know who's hunting what. Mm-hmm. . Um, I, I love the competitive side of this sport. And, um, this, this weekend I like, I hunted a Grand American because it's just my thing. I've done it all my life. Um, but that weekend I had two great casts, probably two of the best casts I've had in years. Um, sportsmanship was out of this world.

It was everybody was, you know, they didn't, they did what they were supposed to. Yep. They struck their dogs. They treated their dogs. Um, it was no arguing. , no bickering. It was just enjoyable. Uh, you know, I see a lot of guys down here this weekend that I've known for years and years and years, and most of 'em, I've never had a crossword with any of 'em.

Yeah. There's a [00:53:00] few of 'em down down there that I have, but for the most part of it there, you know, the competitiveness and the sportsmanship, and if you got a good dog, you don't have to pull all that crap, man. No, you don't. You don't have to. You don't have to be so extra. Just a striking trim. Yeah. And, uh, everything works itself out.

But for the most part, you know, I hear people always talking about they got cheated. You know, they hate competition hunting. It's really and truly, they, they really didn't get cheated. It was, took a couple things. They needed a better. or they need to learn the rules, or they're just not man enough to accept that they got beat.

It's usually

Josh Michaelis: the third one. So it usually is, I mean, just to be honest, it's usually the

Steven Green: third one. A and if I get beat, if Josh McKayla takes me behind the woodshed one night, I'm gonna shake his hand because he deserved it that night. So, I mean, you know, I think if we get more of that and uh, that's just like Maynard, you know, I, I use Maynard [00:54:00] Maynard's always in a good mood.

Mm-hmm. joking. Mm-hmm. , we cut up. That's the kind of stuff you like to go to a hunt. I mean, you know, it's camaraderie. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Everybody likes to win. If you weren't, you're in the wrong sport because it's competitiveness. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's probably as competitive as any sport out there.

Yeah. I mean, night in and night out. . So

Josh Michaelis: yeah, there's two sides of it and you'll hear it right here just through all, go through all the truth episodes where we talk about competition. Kunu and Kurt was a, was a fantastic example where he said, you know, I'm not your buddy for those two hours. That's fine.

I'm not your buddy for those two hours either. Me, sometimes I'll cut up stuff like that, but it, I'm trying to win that cast, you know, I'm trying to win. But also when that's over, congratulations to the man that did win. Exactly. If I win, congratulations to me and I'm glad I did and it's all over, you know, and we may.

we may [00:55:00] get, and I don't get heated, you know, very rarely will I get heated. I'm sure you're the same way, but you'll, you'll disagree during a cast age is taking care of a lot of that. It does Age, age takes care of most of it for everybody. Even Finley has calmed down in a cast, , . But uh, you know, and I see these young and hungry guys and I've drawn 'em and you know, during those two hours I'm just like, Jay whiz, and this guy's doing this and this guy's doing that.

And you're griping. But he's young and he's hungry and he's usually got a decent dog and he's doing the best to win with it. And I kind of tipped my hat to him too, because you know, I was there. You were there. Yeah. You see that, that I'm here to win and I'm not here to make friends' attitude. And I respect that just as much as I do the.

The Randy Steadman that just comes and, and competes and bicker and argue and make fun of you all night. And then if he beat you, he beat you in. If you don't, he had a good time anyway. Mm-hmm. , you know, you respect all that. Yeah. It's both sides of it.

Steven Green: I drew a kid, I drew a kid Saturday night at a Grand American [00:56:00] and he was just, like you said, he had, he was hunting a black dog and that dog, he split

Josh Michaelis: every drop.

Steven Green: Yeah. Looked amazing. And at the end he, he made a bad call mm-hmm. and he flew off the handle, you know, he couldn't accept it. Yeah. But, um, you know, he's like you said, he's just hungry. Yeah. And he's got a good dog and that's just competitiveness out of his,

Josh Michaelis: and you gotta respect the fact that he got that dog ready.

Yeah, he did. And he got that dog.

Steven Green: I, I, I did, I did. I, I, I tried to talk to him a little bit afterwards, but he was so, he was so hot. Yeah. That I was smart enough to know that it, you know, he just needed to go on and drive back to wherever he came from and maybe, you know, it would, he would see it, but some of 'em do and some of 'em don't.

Yeah. Um, but there's a few that'll take, I'll, I'll take nothing from him that he was, he was the dog to beating that cast, even though my [00:57:00] dog wanted at the end, he was the dog to beating that cast. Yeah. And I, I respected that young man cuz I knew he was hunting that dog hard. Had him prepared for that hunt.

And um, you know, it's like you said, they, they're young and they're hungry. Yeah. And I was there. I know I was in his shoes. I was the same person I was in his shoes. Yeah. But it took me a little while to understand that, you know, I can't. If I make a mistake, it's on me. It's not, it's not. The other three people in that cast, it was on me.

Josh Michaelis: And I remember one night, and I've told this story, I think on the podcast, and, uh, I was at a party on a Friday night and ran my mouth and some kid just beat me about half to death, . And I show up Saturday night to this coon hunt and, uh, the whole side of my face swelled up. I've still, I'm still concussed.

I mean, this kid and I had it coming , he gave it to me [00:58:00] and I had it coming. And, uh, I can't look up in a tree very long without blacking out. And so I kind pulled some funny stuff. I'm 20 years old, 19, 20 years old, and I, I pulled some funny stuff on a couple trees and at the end of this hunt, uh, I was hunting a little dog when she got split.

And she's on a big maple. I know she's got a coon good dog. I'd got her ready and I'd been hunting hard and, uh, I couldn't shine this tree. and see straight or nothing. And I asked that guy that was handling and he, I said, how you gonna help me shine this tree? Cuz you shouldn't have messed up on that. He remembered that very first drop where I pulled some funny stuff.

That's right. And I've drawn that guy a hundred times since then and we've been friends ever since then. He just looked at me as this young, dumb, ignorant kid that didn't know no better and he realized I've evolved and I've got better and I've become a better human being and a father and stuff like that.

And that's how everybody is. Oh yeah. No doubt. Absolutely. You talking about your Grand American and you talking about you [00:59:00] got a dog at home that competes. So tell us about Ru

Steven Green: Well, he's, uh, Barry Reagan bread br him. He's out of, uh, Hatchie River, Dotty in Main Street Drag. It's the, uh, number one historical cross in English breed.

And, uh, the thing that I look the most for a dog, and I'm not colorblind, I hunt any of them. I, I just, . I like a winner. Yeah. But the thing that I look most, my number one thing is, is I don't look for mouth. I don't look to, I look for heart. They gotta have heart. If, you know, I want a dog that when he, when he wants to give up, he doesn't give up on me.

He's always given me that opportunity, whether it be the last 10 minutes of the cast to win a cast. So Rube is a, he's 150% heart. Yeah. I mean, this dog, when I got this dog, he had everything but Covid 19 . [01:00:00] He, uh, he may have had that too. That's what Michigan State wrote on the blood work. I did over $2,000 worth of blood work on that dog.

Um, he couldn't even hold his head up and he would still go treat you Koons. That's how I knew that he would stay at my house till he died, because that dog I took him. There was no way in the world he felt like going, even going hunting. He loaded up in that dog box. We went, I turned him loose. He went out there and just fell.

Treat. He never has done that since he had a coon. I shot it out to him. I took him home and I said, oh boy. I said, me and you're gonna get healthy, we're gonna get well. And I said, then you're gonna really show me what you're about. Mm-hmm. . So I have a wonderful vet, Dr. Gruber at a and veterinary clinic. Um, he's, he's actually from the Mississippi Delta bird dog man.

And, um, he understands sporting dogs and that's hard to find this day. Yeah. In the veterinarian world, they're all about lap dogs and, you know, yeah. That's who pays their bills. So, [01:01:00] and, and, you know, he understands it and he actually, I mean, he and I text each other. If I have, I'll talk to him about what do you think about this?

And he'll, he'll leave me in the right direction. But anyway, so we got, he and I got Rube straight, Rob's thyroid was a 0.57. So , I'll give you a funny story. So that was about the time that I came on with Joy. Mm-hmm. . And, um, so I was giving him oxen, joy, dog food, 24 20 and clean water every day. He told me, he said, it's a must you give him fresh water every day.

So I did that and we went six weeks, six weeks and had his first blood test. He was at 0.87 and he said, oh, he's, he's doing better. He said, but we're gonna help the oxen. And I said, 0.57 to 0.87. And you're, you're, you're looking at me and smiling and saying, he's [01:02:00] doing better cuz I'm thinking he ain't going no better.

And uh, so it went about six months before he got me to come back in the next time. And we went in there and he came back, he cleaned the door open and he says, what are you giving us dog? , and I'm like, I feel like I've got a gun held to me. You know? He goes, I said, I ain't giving him nothing but joy, dog food, oxen and freshwater.

He said, nah. He said, you're giving him something. What are you giving him? I said, joy dog food Oxen. Freshwater. He said, uh, he said, you got a bag? That's joy dog food I can get, I can see. I said, yeah. I said, matter of fact, the feed store across the road here, I got it in there. So I went over there and got a bag and he turns it over and he re, I mean he's studying it.

Mm-hmm. , it's just quiet there for 15, 20 minutes. He opens it up, he looks at it, he said, [01:03:00] uh, can I have this bag of dog feed? I said, you sure can take $55 off my bill. I said, for 48. And I done paid the bill. You know how much the bill was? How much? 1600. Oh geez. I said, I tell you what, you sure can. I said, for $48 is yours.

He looked at me and said, what? I said, you just charged me $1,600 . And he said, okay. So anyway, he feeds Joy now. Yeah. And uh, he said he thinks that cuz getting back to it rubs uh, thyroid was 3.45. And, uh, he told me, he said he, you know, all he could think is that Dejo, dejo was formulated correctly. He was getting enough iodine mm-hmm.

to suppress his thyroid and make his thyroid. work it because Yeah, basically it just stops working when they get that low. So he just said it, it put it back in full gear and where it needed to be. So I, he told me, he said, take him off to Suboxone. I took him off the Suboxone, and to be honest with you, he, [01:04:00] he was a 10 times better dog than he was.

Yeah. Um, you know, and he really, he really started performing. So I took him to the Grand American that, that first year.

Josh Michaelis: Kudos to your vet for telling you to take him off the Oxi. Yeah. Yeah. I got, there's not very many of 'em will do. I've done that with two dogs now. I've

Steven Green: got a great vet. He, he really is.

Um, but I took him to the Grand American in that first year that I, that I had to work for Joyce. So I said, well, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna hunt. So I hunted him Friday night and I got a cast win with him Friday night, Saturday night I didn't go, I didn't hunt. Um, I went home. The next year I go, I get double cast wins, and then this year, Tyler hunted him.

He, uh, finished seventh Friday night, uh, 16th, Saturday night, double cast wins. And we were fifth of the final four. So just about I, he was just there knocking on the door, which we had a couple o opportunities, [01:05:00] uh, if he'd

Josh Michaelis: have had a good handler. Fri

Steven Green: Well, no, just giving Tyler, I'm gonna, I'm just giving Tyler great.

I'm gonna tell you Tyler did a wonderful job. He does, he did a wonderful job handling him. Um, Brenner's probably a better handler than Tyler, though. , um, just saying. But anyway, on Friday night, this goes back to sportsmanship. Friday night, jt, he hunts the no limit sniper dog. Yeah. James Thomas on my last tree, Ru was split from his dog.

And I had a big old nest and a cow's cock up there. And I'm thinking this, this thing could have held a condo. Mm-hmm. . It wasn't a squirrel bed. It was a, yeah, it was a, it was huge. So JT saw the coon and. , me and the guide were standing out in the Pav road and we could see the coon, but Tyler and them didn't see the coon, so it got circled.

So if I'd have had that, if he'd got that coon. Plus he had been in, in the top four, Saturday night, he had two like that. He had one in a pine tree that, [01:06:00] uh, judge saw, the guide saw, and one of the other guys saw, but the other other two didn't see. So that would've got him in. And then he had another, another tree that night that he had a coon in that a two to two.

Yeah. So, and you know, but I'll take, I'll take it how it is. You know, it was, every bit of it was honest. It was, it was done great sports and shit, like I said was great. Um, so he's just a, I don't know. He's, I, I like him a lot, Josh. That's all that matters. I mean, I, I do, he just, . He wins. He wins more than he loses when he goes to Hunts.

Um, if he was run up and down the road, probably people, you know, would know more about him. Yeah. But, uh, he's a full litter mate brother. The main street blue that Trevor hack. Yep. And Grant Whitmer had, so he'd be Krakens uncle. [01:07:00] Um, he's got another litter mate out there in Mississippi. They, he's a granite champion called Hollywood.

They say, I've never hunted with him. And they say he is a heck of a hound, but I've owned three Dotty Hounds. I won Chrome, one off Chrome, one off. Awesome. And then this one off of Jack. And the, the, the three things that they had in Simulator, they were different, but the three things they had sim was their heart.

That's them. They all had that

Josh Michaelis: heart. And, uh, we, we were talking about it last night and I always said, just give me all the heart and half the talent. There you go. And I'll beat your brakes

Steven Green: off. There you go. And, uh, but he's a, he's a big old, good athletic looking dog, decent mouth. You can walk, walk to him for a mile, mile and a half with hearing, um, trees, a lot of coons.

He, uh, he likes to party sometimes, but he always winds up getting by himself a couple [01:08:00] times. So he's kind of a good mixture for me because I'm one of those guys now that I don't need him to be by himself all the time. Yeah, I, when I was younger, I hunted a dog that was by hisself all the time. And, um, but now I, I'm smart enough to figure out that I'm better off getting a piece piece outta the truck, one by myself and I'll win probably 50% of my cash like that.

I, because Ronnie Bone always told me when I was young and up there at Roy one day, I blew a gasket and he said, what's it was in youth name? Yeah. He said, what's wrong son? And I told him, and he said, lemme tell you what he said, I, I'm hunting the winningest dog ever. And he said, if I win 50% of my cast, I'm, I'm doing great.

Yeah. And I always remembered that stuff. I always took stuff from people like him and just, you know, I, I didn't want, I've never been one of those people that think I know it all. You know, I always listened. Whether it be you, Tim [01:09:00] Strickland, you know, I talked to Murray Reagan a lot. Um, you know,

Josh Michaelis: Ashley, Ashley Ox, congratulations to Ashley.


Steven Green: Oxid is my favorite dude. I'm just gonna tell you. He's one of my favorites too. He's my favorite person in the world. I, I just love sitting talking to him. Yeah. I love being around him. He's just a good man. I've never,

Josh Michaelis: and I've met a lot of successful people and most of 'em I just love to death.

But Ashley's so humble and he's so polite and he's so nice to be around. And, uh, what I love about Ashley, I think the most is he's so proud of his dogs. He's just like that little kid that is his first coon dog, just treat its first coon by itself. You know, Ashley takes that mentality into these dogs winning at a high level, you know, and he likes 'em.

And, you know, kudos to him. I'm glad he, I'm glad he done well last night.

Steven Green: Yeah, he's, he, I always pull for Ashley, he's, uh, [01:10:00] I don't know if a lot of people know, but he's probably one of the hardest working human beings in the world. He is. Um,

Josh Michaelis: he's, every time I talk to him,

Steven Green: he is working. But I'm gonna tell you something that's, that's even more, he's, he's a better dog man than most people would ever give him credit for.

Because I know, personally, I, I've seen stuff that he's done. The dogs that were. and a spell and a rut. Yeah. Yep. And Ashley can bring him back out there. He's just got that touch. Yeah. And uh, I just think a lot of it's got to be of his nature. I think

Josh Michaelis: it's think his

Steven Green: dogs like him. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Its his nature's dog. Like him and, uh, yeah. And I, I really, I'm really pulling for him to win this whole thing. I hope he does. He's, he's my man. I'm, I'm gonna pull for him to the end. Um, I hope him and Dotty bring that truck home or maybe jump in the black dog. He'd probably be more proud with book Jumping The black dog.

Yeah. because he's a black dog man. Jacob was excited last month about old Jumper. He was, he, [01:11:00] uh, Jake Jump and Jake or Deuce Jump's done. Good. Yeah. With him Jump's done really good. That dog's named Deuce, is that his name's Deuce. Yep.

Josh Michaelis: Yeah, that's right. Yep. The Labrador, the lab in Deuce. The Labrador.

Steven Green: the lab.

That hunts like a walker. Yeah. That's his top. I know

Josh Michaelis: when Jake sat down with us on the. On the live feed. He was wound up. Yeah. Excited. And I was happy for him. Me too.

Steven Green: He's a good dude. He is. So, really is. All right,

Josh Michaelis: Steven. We got a lot of work to do this afternoon. It's gonna be a long night. Uh, this is going to air on what is today, Saturday.

So the results are gonna be out by the time this airs Gold at the Joy. It'll be on the Joy Dog Food events page and you'll see all our live coverage and you'll see kind of an inside look at the pro sport truck hunt. You're gonna get to see the, the final four covered live if you go on there and look at the live feed there too.

So you guys check it out. And, and Steven, it's been a wonderful weekend. I love seeing your home state. Yeah. And I love having you with me and doing the live coverage. It's nice to have another knowledgeable Hounds man in the booth with me. [01:12:00] Well, I

Steven Green: don't know about knowledgeable, but I, I do wanna say one more thing.

Um, Josh, I really appreciate what you've done with these podcasts. Thank you. Because y I know you probably don't see it, but a lot of people. Get a lot of enjoyment, you know, because they've never had this with their sport. Yeah. And, and, and you know, as well as I do, coon hunters are die hard loving. They love it, they breathe and sleep it.

You have to, to do what we do. And, and I just wanted to tell you that you do a great job and I appreciate it. I

Josh Michaelis: appreciate you, Steven, everything you do for me and for joy and uh, Wade and everybody, appreciate it. And I'm sure Chris with Heman XP will appreciate you sitting down with us just as well. So let's, uh, shut this off and go to work, huh?

Yep. Let's do it. All right. Thank you for listening. Ladies and gentlemen. This is the truth on the Heman XP Podcast Network and we will catch you next time.[01:13:00]