Using A Tough Season To Boost Your Whitetail Knowledge with Michael Perry & Jamie McCay

Show Notes

If you've listened to the Southern Ground Hunting Podcast this year, the theme of the recently concluded whitetail season has been along the lines of: "It's just been tough", or "We just weren't seeing much of a rut this year". That seems to be the case country wide. This week we're joined by two fan favorites, veteran Alabama deer killers Jamie McCay and Michael Perry. It's easy to make excuses for a bad season, but what separates the killers from the crowd is the willingness to adjust their strategy. If you know Michael or have heard his tactics, he puts a lot into hunting creek crossings. You'd likely know Jamie McCay for his talks on hunting bluff gaps. So what do these guys do when those tactics aren't working? 

You'll hear this and more in this week's episode!

Show Transcript

[00:00:00] Hey, thanks for tuning into this week's episode of the Southern Ground Hunting Podcast, where you're gonna hear a valuable hunting based conversation that's tailored for us southern folk. If you love what we do and would like to support Southern Ground Hunting, you can visit Ground Hunting, or you can click on the link in the show notes below.

We'd love for you to join the Southern Ground Hunting community today. Again, that's Ground Hunting. You can also support us by leaving us a rating and review on iTunes. It helps more than and we greatly appreciate it. And now let's get to the show.

Calling the Dogs . Man, I lied. How old were you? under 10, I'm sure Under 10. Under 10. Dipping and getting sick. First dip under 10 years old. Oh yeah. That's the most Alabama thing I think I ever heard in my life. Way [00:01:00] to break them . Yeah, that's true. So you're telling me is I need to let my kids try it now.

Yeah. Now so that they're like, oh like you said, you don't never forget it. That's true. And then I'm telling you, man, I even to this day, I cannot smell mint. You know what gets me is peach flavored stuff like peach rings or some peach teas have this, it's like a artificial peach flavor.

Same thing that they would put in like a peach skull. Really? I remember when I was, when you're in high school, tobacco's like drugs, right? You just take whatever you can get. You don't really care. You don't have a type, I'll try that. I'll try it. Yeah. So we had That peach skull and it had just come out the first time I ever tried it.

I thought it tasted like candy until I threw it up. Ugh. I still can't smell that. Ugh. Anyways, enough about dipping. We ain't talk about that crap. , nasty old habit. But we are [00:02:00] postseason post Alabama season, post February the 13th. It's been over three days. Jamie said you felt like in Alabama we were getting punished this year.

Oh yeah. We were living all punishing us last year. Abundance of acres. Ain't never seen it in my life that many acres and this year. Zero. None. I don't If you're lucky enough to find an acre and tree by a week, it was all gone. There. all gone. All them people grappled last year about too many acres. I don't wanna hear a word ever again, but you're looking at one of 'em,

Hey. And you know what's funny is we've got it on like recorded proof about Jamie talking about Theon crops. Last year, I don't know if you remember, we were sitting yeah. Sitting right here in the same spot. I said, Jamie, last year was rough for you. What are you gonna be, what are you gonna do different this year?

You're like hopefully . Hopefully we don't have many acres, as many acres on the ground. I believe God heard your Christ. You've done that to us. . Oh, recorded proof . [00:03:00] Hey. But it worked out great. You crap. Yeah. Great job Jamie. You got to kill a nice one. Yeah. Yeah. It was tough. . Oh, I don't know how many days did you figure your days up Total?

I went back and counted cuz now you have to check in and check out on U WMAs. And I think it, I think I made a post. I think I killed one on. date 36 and date or 35, 36 or 36 or 37 days. Huh? That's not straight, but that's check in checkout. That's total six. Yeah. That's somewhat a days way more than most folks.

Say that one more time. I think I misheard either 36 or 37 days of hunting before I even shot the first deer. Before you shot the first one. Now I let one go Thanksgiving week. That was pretty nice deer. But that is the only shooter I'd seen up to that time. And these come only three weeks later, something like that.

And you shot two, two bucks [00:04:00] within a 12 hour window? Yep. One. One at last light and the other one the next morning, I think about eight 30. Golly, that's a cool feeling. Yeah. Have you done that before? Probably because he is a, he is the most successful guy. Let's see. I know assistant guy I know at black work. I know that one year, man, I was moping hard and then all of a sudden it was, I think I killed a 10 and then turned around and killed. Let's see what I know. I killed 1, 1 10. Oh yeah.

I killed the 10 in December on Forest, forest land. And then I think a last gun hunt, not far from that timeframe. I killed the eight and then turned around on another public land and killed a big nine that year. Yeah, dude it's it's interesting I know you guys, a lot of people know who you are.

They really respect you as I, I consider myself in that group of people that, that feels that way about y'all. But whenever I see [00:05:00] on and just talking to you and I see that the season is tough for you. It it, I'll be honest with you, it does make me feel a little bit better about things.

I'm like Mike and Jamie are still having a pretty tough time. Like it's they're talking about how rough it's been. Like maybe it actually is rough right now and it's not. Oh, I had a couple people like, oh, you having a tough time? He said, man, that makes me feel better.

Man, it was tough. It was a, it is hard. And we talked about it last year. We talked about in this same postseason podcast with y'all, we talked about apron crop. Like we would rather have not enough aprons than too many, cuz too many makes it really hard to hunt. Man, I'm telling you like this year, who, that's that.

I'm gonna have some live music for this podcast, . But anyway it, it makes it it definitely makes it hard, harder to hunt [00:06:00] low deer density areas, especially low deer density areas like north Alabama, I think Louisiana would be probably in that same wheelhouse part. A lot of parts of the Southeast that are just a little bit lower.

Got the big woods. I would rather have, I'd rather have what we had this year. I feel like if somebody were to ask me, I would say, oh yeah, I'd rather have none than too many. But now post-season, looking at it, I'm like, no, absolutely not. I would way rather have too many. Yeah. You had to change everything I've done in the summer leading up for this year.

You'd just squash all in. I felt like I had just wasted my time. Yeah. So I had to go and refine what these boogers are feeding on. Yep. And and it was just strictly browse and it was unreal. What you'd actually find them feeding on. What was some of the things that you were, that you're finding that seemed to be like consistent every time you passed, whatever, this type of browse?

It was always, oh no, [00:07:00] I didn't I didn't narrow it down like head. You didn't feel like you put any, like a real pattern on it. You just, I had to change up. We cut overs. I started focus. I was like, man, everything I've been sitting on bow hunting ain't done no good. So it rolled over on the muzzle loader week and I said, mom, I'm finna go check some cut overs out.

And I rattled that week and I thought I'm finna have a good season. I think I seen five or six bucks that week. I think

an eight. a seven, a spike, a six, and I think one more deer. And I thought, man, I this is gonna be all right. . Same. Cut over. I didn't see nothing else. I had a similar thing happen where opening day I saw Buck. What a big buck. But it was a buck. Yeah. Know how many bucks I can I've seen on opening day of archery season.

Not very many. you only see a whole lot of 'em. And I saw one opening day on that first set and I was [00:08:00] like, that's right. It's gonna be a good year. . Just a teaser. Yeah. Nope. It's showing I wasn't, but but you did end up mean it happen On a heck of a butt. Two pretty nice ones. One of 'em though. Like a one of 'em.

A slammer. Yep, a slammer. One of 'em was the longest shot I've ever made, and I've gotta go back and range it. But by OnX push dropping. your straight line. 290 yards. Oh yeah. Yeah. I ain't never hit nothing that far. No baby neith on. I hit it, it was leg bone. Cause we was in a club down south and I found leg bone off of it.

When this in here just ah, I'll take 'em high and get 'em. Just sheer luck. That's when you're hunting big woods though. There's not a lot of opportunity to shoot. No. Normally super far. Normally I'm shooting them a hundred and less. Yeah. Some of 'em, a lot of 'em in bowl range. And when I set my scope, I don't set it a hundred yards, I'll set mine at 25 cuz I have had [00:09:00] my old rifle had C3 mounts on it.

And it was actually a 10 I killed, but I was like, man, I'm going to shoot this deer. He may have been 40 yards and I was just quartering toward me. I was just gonna shoot him, punch him right in the chest, man this deer doesn't let out the run. And it stopped in front of me and I down to one.

She, by then I was shing. It was a botax. And I said, I gotta make this count. And I shot him and I'm trying to watch him. I reload watching him and I'm done with the panic mode. Then he falls down the ridge. I said, okay. I get down there and I just burned him right down the brisket, might've broke a little bit of meat.

So I went to measuring scope down to my barrel and I said, I don't know why? I think it's like an inch and a half. Inch and somewhere in there within two inches and down. I said, that's gotta be see through mounts on that gun. But anyway, I went back and reset my scope. I don't man it, I typically, I'll sat my [00:10:00] gun in for about a hundred yards.

But I'm, I missed one this year at 10 yards with a rifle. There's always that. But most of my shots aren't a whole lot different with a rifle than they are bow. As far as distance wise. But So Mike, you. Which I like this too. I love like the postseason, we ought make this an annual thing.

Like I call it pre-season now, but Yeah, it's post-season. Yeah. Just looking back at the season. Oh yeah. We get to hold Jamie accountable for stuff that he said on the last one. Yeah. Our deers gonna take two years to recover to get their bodies back. Just cuz you jinxed them on Theon, man I hope.

What did that big buck that you killed, what did he weigh? I think he dressed 120, I think might not even been that big, but I think one 20. But his frame of his body on a good year hit 200 pound deer. Yeah. He is long lanky and just, and you could see the skin sagging on him, but man, I killed [00:11:00] the biggest buck that I killed this year.

I bet he wasn't 120 pounds. , like live weight. Wow. Joker was little bitty thing. But Mike, you you had a different season. Everybody knows you for hunting Black warrior. You shot that state record buck last year and so you can, it's gonna be hard for you to ever get away from that.

What the heck? Mike didn't kill a state record buck every year. , what's going on? Hey, you had to kind of branch out and think outside the box a little bit this year. I'm trying to do that some every year really. And even with Kathy, it might not just be me, but yeah, it was tough.

Now, Kathy had a chance at the big, probably one forties pretty early then I passed up a 10.2 probably he might be three year old, but I had him on camera, just so happened to recognize, and I passed him up, had a good deer close. I just couldn't see him. Had a dough in, he acting crazy. and I could see the 10 point.

You could tell he wanted to come down there to where she was at, but he wasn't. So something was holding him out. So I know it was a big buck. Just couldn't see it. That's something I'd figured out as they'd gotten them wear [00:12:00] mountain oil thick that they liked. They were in them things and they were eating them suckers and they were staying in 'em tight.

So I could see into the thickest a little bit and see the do a do come out when it was in heat messing. I guess he might have pushed her out a big but anyway, they just, I never could get no shot and they ended up meas easing off. They stayed there in front of me for probably an hour and a half heating them laurel stuff.

And I went back after the last hunt and went in there and actually looked more and they were in there tight. So it was, I guess from what pressure they was, they found some laurel thickets and stayed there. Didn't move much even though dove were in heat and they just conserved. Or how big of Laurel thickets are you talking?

Like this one probably run for a half a mile or more. This one does. Yeah. But it was more in the bottom, the two things hurt us was no acres. and then that drought we had there, so it dried everything up on the tops. So they moved into the bottoms. More feeding to me is what I was seeing.

Yeah, and that makes it a little bit tougher with the wind, wind situation is if you try to get too close to 'em in the bottom of the wind, switches, swirls, whatever, you get in trouble. So it made a little [00:13:00] bit tougher. We seen several then. I was sick. I didn't hunt for nearly a month from being in the hospital for food poison.

I'll set you back a little bit. Yeah. Set me back a pretty good bit. But but it ended up being pretty cool for you. You got go three bucks, three bucks on three different WMAs, right? Yeah. Three different WMAs. Two of 'em was four and a half. One was three and a half. Called two of 'em in, called one in with a tree stand called one in with Matton

So the one with the tree stand was pretty cool. But I went to Sam Murphy. I got a tree there. I found crap. I don't know it. I was probably 25 or 26, but, . I went back there last year and found it and I barely can get my summit stand around it. Matter of fact, it makes me nervous cause I got it let all the way out.

Then things were on the last knot, on the last chain, last knot. So I put my, nothing else to catch you. Yeah, I put my harness on at the ground and climbed up with it. But I went there scouted the week before and found fresh tracks right in front of it. One good set of buck tracks and the next hunt they were having.

I was working nights [00:14:00] and I worked off that Friday morning at seven o'clock. Drove there and got there and was climbing up the tree at 10 and it was a big old water open. You when you climb up, you know how you're stand feel funny. You feel like it's gonna slip a little bit. So it do just like a little round horse hot.

Stop my look. And I always climb on my gun around my neck loaded, because I've had other situations happen. I got about five, four foot from where I was gonna hunt at and it done clicked about twice and I done the last little click. and I thought, what is that? And I heard something come trotting and I'll turn around and get that gun off, knock my hat off.

And his buck coming in there, head twirling, looking to fight. And I'd already told myself, I said, killed one deer already. And we're low on meat. I said, I told my wife, Hey, Sam Murphy, they don't care. You can kill a spike and you can kill a two deer a day there on. It's about the only imaginary you can kill.

Two deer day all season now. So anyway, I've seen a rat come in there in about 10 yards. I busted him. So he come into rattling tree stand or popping tree stand. So it's pretty cool,[00:15:00] it's actually a pretty cool tactic that I've seen work quite a bit. When you do it on purpose, obviously that's not necessarily on purpose, but just I was trying to control it cause you, just holding my pressure down where we're just barely where it wasn't making that real loud metal sound or something. It sounded something like antlers popping a little bit. So I've seen more since I started making noise with grunts. Or rattling. If I rattle in a tree, I'll just rake the bark of that tree with those rattling antler some.

I can tell you, before I started doing that calling, I would've told you, calling doesn't really bring in a deer on a blind call, whether you're rattling or grunting, just cuz I'd never seen it. I would say eh, it doesn't, I don't have good success with that. This is Alabama. It don't happen here, . Yeah, exactly.

But once I started doing that, man, I started really doing it a lot, probably the last three years maybe. Like I'll get real aggressive with it and I wouldn't be surprised to tell you [00:16:00] I, most of the bucks that I've killed in Alabama have been after, within 15 minutes of a grunting sequence where I really get real fired up. Yeah. I feel a lot better doing a grunting sequence blind than I do rattling sequence. , I've done some rattling when I hear something or see something and I say, it's not coming my way or whatever. So that's the way I killed the one at Freedom Hills is don't like doing one like that.

Heard something a few minutes later, heard you know, the squirrels bark deer, they'll do a, and sometimes they're just doing it himself, but so I heard that a couple times and said something down there could be a deer or something. Anyway, I get a few minutes and then it's a light rattle. Waited about 30 minutes and got a little bit harder and within 10 minutes I've seen something moving.

And he was, it was a perfect scenario cause most of the time they going a mature one. That's the mature one I've killed rattling. And they gonna try to get down wind of you something. How the way I was set up was on his point, the be I figured he was betting at the end of the point. He come around that point and it was a high, [00:17:00] it was a straight down like bluff line and he'd come on a little shelf around there trying to get down wind and there was no way to him get down wind without me seeing him.

So anyway, it worked out perfect. Nothing. Shot him at 40 yards. But it was, he was sneaking. So most of the time if I ever called a big one in rattling, they got me. Most of the time they get in that name whim before you see him. Cause they slip. Cause he done made it 70 yards. Let me see anything till he was within 40 yards of me.

And Clear woods basically. So I noticed both of you guys seems Al Alabama's maybe a little bit different from other states in that we have these gun hunt weekends where if somebody listening to this doesn't know this, al this is how Alabama works. You get every WMA has a different schedule, but they'll be what would you say?

Average is like four days. Most of 'em now is four days to start Thursday through Sunday. Thursday through Sunday of gun hunts. But you can hunt these WMAs with a bow, whenever you want to. In between those hunts. Now I don't see, I know Mike, you killed one with a bow during rifle season.

Correct? That big one you killed? Oh yeah. [00:18:00] Yeah. Bow a couple years back. Yeah, it was around Thanksgiving. But I noticed that both of y'all. once rifle season opens, I don't see a whole lot of deer that you kill with a bow. Is that because y'all are chasing them like going to different WMAs every weekend? Or is it because you're just not going during those times or It's cuz they changed the dates up on us and where you used to have that timeframe of bow hunting all the way up to November the 19th when it used to open up statewide with a rifle.

Now it's like I got now muzzle loader starts up first because in the zones we hunt, it starts this year it was like October, the 31st through the fourth or fifth was muzzled or weak. And then you ride into a gun hunt and it's hard to lay down a rifle on one side to go bow hunt somewhere else. So that's why I really hadn't shot nothing.

I feel like it's tucked my bow outta my hand, but this year they got us bad cuz they've done a youth hunt. [00:19:00] Early and they closed both sides. You couldn't even bow hunt anything on the other side. They didn't go bow hunting nowhere. You could hunt other public land or forest land or something like that, but not nothing you had plans for.

Yeah. It's a cool part about Alabama in that, it, this is a, I would say Alabama is a pretty high pressured state. Oh yeah. Any given WMA on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, you go out there, there's gonna be a lot of people there. But once rifle season opens up and these WMAs start going to doing their gun hunt weekends really starts really start to really pressure starts getting really slim.

And a lot of these WMAs during the gun hunts are during the, when it's not gun hunt time, you can have a lot of it to yourself, which is a pretty cool aspect to Alabama that I don't think, yeah, it depends, but a lot of non-residents probably don't realize that when we talk about high pressure, we're typically talking about.

during the gun hunts. It's gonna be very, yeah, very high pressure [00:20:00] anywhere you go. But I wanna talk a little bit about this. I do gotta say, I do like early season between gun hunts. I'll bow hunt if I'm off, but once them, we on them weekends, once they start them weekend hunts, we get through with the black wire rut hunts, then we'll move chasing rut through the other manages areas.

But during the week, cause I got a funky schedule where I work, I can be off during the week and I'll bow hunting during the week and every now and then I'll kill one like that during the, after Halloween or something like that. But it's generally about every three or four years before I get a shot with a, because the pressure's done been on so much, that's hard to get 'em close, especially the mature ones.

But yeah, it's a, the pressure this year, Blackwater was tough. First couple. and that's normal. They'll be all fired up. Get out there and if they get the butts handed to 'em. Oh, you talking about on the archery? Even, no, the gun hunt. Oh, I was gonna say boy, that first couple weeks, first supposed Gold Weeks.

Yeah. Thought it was. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody figured out them that thought it was a pot of gold under a stomp out there and everybody was trying to look for it, man. It was, yeah. You couldn't [00:21:00] get on a green everywhere They were sta they were stacking out in Greenfield Day ahead of time. cars were and stuff.

It's funny cause I figured out when them aons wasn't available. The only aons that was, we forgot about the salt tooths. Cause the salt tos were there for a little bit. I ever saw Two Tree had somebody sitting by it says, Hey guys. As most of censorship for hunters and anglers is completely outta control.

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Check out six day grind coffee today. That's the word six, followed by day grind coffee Did I'm curious to know, cause I don't, did y'all see a lot of deer getting killed because it was such a low acre near, did you see a lot of deer getting killed on greenfield's on public land to start out bow hunting?

They had a lot of shots, but it didn't take long. They kept 'em off from them until after dark. So I've never seen so many [00:23:00] deer feeding on side of the roads and look at you as you drove by and never moved. Yep. , but not wma, but I know a lot of the public land around, not public. Let me back up.

Private land that you could vape. Yeah. Yeah. Man, they was killing some toads on it. The boat fire. With bows during bog sales. Geez. Yeah. It, man it's so crazy when you, but you guys, y'all are both older than I am, but I'm 30, 32 years old. And I'm think about 32. All the old man son, or young man maybe.

Yeah. I got a son. 31. Let's speak . You be my daddy . Me. Grandpa . Yeah. Grandpa. Man, I don't even remember what I was saying. Dad. Gummit. That's joke about being young, huh? Yeah. Yeah. No. Oh, I remember what I was gonna say. I'm 32 years old and as you start really putting things together, like I feel like I'm.

you could look back and have these years like this that really stick out, that were really low [00:24:00] apron years. I hadn't really had one of those that was this bad that I can look back on and draw information from. You know what I mean? That year it was just like this and the deer seemed to be doing that.

So it felt like I was constantly having to figure out new things that I hadn't had to figure out yet. And really pay attention to where I was seeing deer and seeing sign, which was a lot more unconventional this year than what it has been in the past. You're one of you guys, first off, have you seen years like this?

Did you have something to draw from and Yeah. Was it accurate? In 2000, we had zero acres, like yes, but we wasn't in a drought. We had good food plot, so this year we had. no acres. And the food plots was really late about greening up and it was just, and then around back Christmas, they all froze up

I had thought, boy, I'm finna, I know ramma headed man. I went all the way in there and that fell, looked like dirt, oh my gosh. [00:25:00] Did, was there anything else I know you mentioned a while ago talking about you felt like a lot of the deer were really tied into those clear cuts and they weren't doing much else.

Was that something that you drew from that season? No. I was young back in too. I was just lucked up on the one. I killed them. But I do remember that year. Yeah. This is the first year I've, I don't know I asked you before about hickory nuts. I ain't seen a hickory nut one out there. They poor squirrels in early October to pine cones as far as they told 'em to get 'em staged up, cause if I've never seen a hickory nut one, that's the first year I can remember not seeing a hickory nut. So it's, yeah, a weird year. It was Hickory nuts that year. They were something. I think so. No, not this year. Yeah. It wasn't last year. I wasn't that gum acting for anything. There was a few Red Oaks that fell early that were smaller, but they go, they quick.

They were stunted and bad. Yeah. So y'all know, Danny Hall? Yeah. I think you know Danny Hall. Do you know Danny? No. This is a local guy here and we were talking the other day and [00:26:00] he was telling me that oak trees do like a seven day re or a seven year reset. I've never heard of this Really?

But that they it's almost like it's almost one of those things like how could you not believe in God when you see that these oak trees have every seven years, they just don't produce. It's like they have a Sabbath, I think white oak, a Sabbath year. I think White Oak's, Danny Hall is telling me this and now, and it, I felt like I've heard it before.

Yeah. And I'm interested to see if it has any, Have y'all heard of that before? You ever heard that? I've heard something about Wide Oaks doing that. Not, no. That what we can remember seven years from now. Yeah. Keep up with We'll look again. Yeah. But I don't think it, it's been longer than seven years old since it's been rough.

Yeah. Two thousands is the last time I remember. We didn't have acres. I was 10 years old. Yeah. Cause the Red Oak years, 2000. Them going be a hunter yet . I know. I was just a, I killed my first deer that year. Wow. In Alabama. At 10 year old. At 10 years old. I killed my first deer. I killed my first deer. That was 20 something year old.

20 I was 16. Good gracious. [00:27:00] But the Red Oaks, it takes two years for Red Oak to mature out. I think, I read that and somebody else confirmed it. It, they grow for two years before they dropped. Really? So we have no Red Hays next year. Cause them little ones were stunted so Well, Lester Drought.

Lester Drought made 'em fall a year before they matured out or something. But I know we ain't had no Red Oaks. It'd be two years in a row now. Every summer that failed, but. Little bitty. The caps was bigger than the acre and itself. Yeah. They was small. You'd sw up, down it was a pin oak.

Yeah. And a deer was eating them up of em that haven't got them things up. So we talked about whether or not you have, you were drawing information from this year. I think I said it on a recent podcast years. This really make me feel like I I was forced to learn new things. Like where maybe first week of December usually has been really good to me.

It wasn't this year, but I hunted a full seven days in that first week of December. I retained a whole lot of information that I [00:28:00] wouldn't normally had it been like, just right on the money. You know what I mean? And I'm interested to know if you guys learned anything, like if you, if there's something that you can look back from this year and say, if we ever have a year that's similar, this is what I'm gonna do.

How. , you Michael, John, do you have any? I'm gonna keep doing the same strategy. The biggest thing is to take from Jamie is don't give up. Hang on there and stick with it. Crap. It could happen at any time. He'd kill two in whatever, four hours where it was , but longer than two and four hours wasn't like me climbed up the three ain't even got up.

Tree you on, kill one you and be prepared if say me and Jamie wish Jamie's more pick than I am. We're pretty picky on our main management area about what we're gonna shoot, but be flexible and be ready to go to a different place. Later on, chase the rut. So don't get too frustrated because there's a lot of other places you can go, later on.

So don't get too frustrated early and then, I'll write this stuff down. And I looked through my journal and I couldn't find anything. It was that bad. I wrote it down this year right? By how bad it was with. and the little big gold letters [00:29:00] be bad per Jamie . All right so going a lot, right?

I definitely feel like that I tagged out this year and had some other opportunities and I felt like that was a hundred percent because I just went a lot. And don't give up and pay, pay attention, like the drought stuff. If you're hunting hills, mountainous country, whatever the tops will be, the browse on the tops will get hurt first because it, it's more exposed to the sun than the bottoms will stay wetter longer, so the brows will survive a little bit longer.

So be able to adjust to that and then be able to be ready to move, if it's that bad, if it's completely different, what you're used to hunting or different tactic. Be ready to move, burn a day, scouting instead of hunting or two or whatever you need. And then be prepared if you can go somewhere else.

It's got a different type of terrain or different type of habitat. More cut over. . That's the only thing about black Warriors. There ain't that much cut over stuff. If everybody goes to the cut over there, you won't be able to hunt cause there'll be orange hats. Talking about Cutovers, we weren't recording when you said this, but you [00:30:00] definitely said that this year you felt like Cutovers was like A key.

Oh yeah. All the pines the one of the Forester ladies told me if it's been marked it's gonna be cut. They've sold the cut and they've cut a lot in certain areas. You just gotta get out and find them. And is there any mapping software that you've found that is better? No. It's for finding by getting in that truck it's just gotta go and see it and going from Turkey hunting cuz you gotta travel lot Turkey hunting.

That's where you do a lot of your scouting That or I do. That's because Turkey hunting forces me cuz little old gobbler, he's gonna be over here, over there where I normally ain't gonna go over and deer hunt. You got these certain areas you like to hunt? This is where I killed big boy 20 year ago and I like to hang out in there cuz I feel like the genetics but the Turkey hunting.

I'm all over all the w what WMAs or public land I go to, I'm all over it. So it's forcing you to go in new areas and I'm, even though I'm Turkey hunting man, I'm looking for deer sign and that. But this year it was like if you're content sitting [00:31:00] in the tread and not seeing nothing if that's your thing, but I had to go, I had to get out and scout, give up a day here or there.

Bluff gaps has always been the thing that you've talked about pretty strongly. Did that prove to be something that wasn't necessarily as worth your time this year or did you still use that? No, cuz I really felt like they wasn't traveling that much. He was staying well, like he's saying, staying tuck tight to the thickets and not moving out of 'em.

I was going through that one cut over one morning and I done jumped too deer and I was like, man, I'm not going to the edge over there and look off, off on a creek bottle on top of the bluff. So I'm staying up in here. Something, these deer are in here and I climbed and didn't say nothing.

Huh. I thought, but I don't know if they was doing it at night and then tucking up somewhere else or maybe I bumped them all out when I was easing through. But definitely the mountain low. I've never even looked at the mountain laurel for a food source till this year. And [00:32:00] man, I got, you can, very easy to look down now.

They wouldn't really, per se, hitting the ones that's chest high and head high. The ones about knee high and shorter. They was wearing it out. Yeah. Biting 'em off. I mean you could see, I mean it very visible. Would Mountain Laurel be considered like Woody browse? Woody be some kind of woody waxy browse? I don't know what kind of protein or benefit of that.

They ain't sure was wearing the But it stay green. Yeah. Gear range, right? Yeah. And I never thought about it. I run one camera on the bluff that I pulled a couple weeks ago. and a couple of bucks was walking a trail, but I had several dos coming straight from the bluff right off that mountain. So when I pulled that camera, my buddy he wanted to go around one.

I said, go around that one point. And he said I ain't going that way. We, cuz I've done seen, I said, I'm going this way. So I got out on the mountain laurel and off the main trail and I'm walking the edge of the bluff around and man it was unreal at the drops all through it. So they was wearing it out.

And Cedars, Cedars eating cedars too. Yeah. Yeah. [00:33:00] Cause I have pictures of one buck this year, I think it was January, he was right on a cedar, young cedar tree just eating far out up, really time five shot burst. Cameron had just, you can see him eating and my dad had always told me freedom Hills in the cut over.

And that was a young pine. They was eating the pine needles. Yeah. They ate green pine needles. Yeah. Yeah. Charles killed one when they popped his jaw open to. To check his age and a bunch of pine needle will fill out his mouth. Green pine needle. I mean it may be the dip. That might be the dip. Yeah. Yeah.

That mini dip. . He's a dipper. He's a dipper. That's crazy. That's getting hungry. Eight pounds. That's hungry man. But there might be some kind of benefit to it. We don't know. They just don't do it unless they have to. Yeah. So there's a bunch of stuff Dar will eat out there, so they gonna survive.

So you can adjust a little bit. So remember pine needles, Cedar, I lord . So there's one thing. Green pine needles. There's one thing that has, oh, go ahead. Pine tickets. Man. I love getting in pine tickets. Yeah. Cause the greenery. Yeah. And the honey soles that grows up through it. That's [00:34:00] right. I went it with a refuge just here scouting.

Cause I'm thinking about doing a little bow hunting over there in the future. And I spent all day and I'm looking this wide open ta I said, I ain't seeing now I seen a group of look like seven flags take off. And I finally made it to a come out into a pearl line. . I said, okay, here's some brows right here.

There's rubs up and down. It's Caroline. So I'm walking down it looking and then I jump a buck and a do well, lemme me back. I know it was a buck. The other deer I didn't get to see, I seen the other ones racking. He run off. So I'm going down and I see where he pinching 'em down. I dropped the pin there.

I'm going on through and they wearing this one field out and I go through it and there's, they're big material pines as I walked out in it. And man at the browse was growing up through it. And it had the, that one little section of pines had the best sign that I've seen that whole day over there walking.

And I and when I walked out I was like, man, I need to find some pine tickets [00:35:00] over in this area. And then when I made it back to the truck, I looked where the power line come across. I said, man, there's pine ticket right there. But I'm wore out. I'm not going in there today. But the pine tickets holds a lot of brows.

Yeah. Now, . There's two different things a guy can think of when he thinks about a pine thicket. And they're both different really in, in this browse. I mean you've got like your new pines, old clear cut with planted pines in it. Yeah. That are however many years old. And those are thick.

Real dense. You can't hardly walk through 'em. But deer love them. They'll bet in them. Then you got what I think you're talking about like the tall pines with the underst stories all grown up and briars and the honey circles buried, mature pines. Yeah. Probably 20, 25 foot. And those are hit or miss.

Because sometimes you find those big pine thi or big mature pines and it's gonna be just wide open. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's to be the one that's been manicured. Yeah. Been thin [00:36:00] manicured. . And it's just naked to the ground, but up. The sun can get through if you'll walk through and look real close in between Pine hills.

The big greenery is sticking up about an inch or two out the needles. That's what I like. Brows that, low brows that would get that if you ain't looking good, you'll mess that. They'll get that. , they'll love that stuff. . But that there over there had a lot of small private running inside these Yeah.

Material pines and it was just anyway, it was a lot of brows that maybe other people don't pay attention to when they're walking through, but I thought, man, this is it. The thing about mature pines like that, that I've noticed a lot of people are going by what they can see on the map, myself included, a lot of place.

I have not gone to probably some really good places because I couldn't see something on the map that I would've had to see in person. You're talking about scouting here in Turkey season, man, I love it, especially at the beginning because leaves are still gone. You don't have any of that new growth.

You can see what everything is during the wintertime and the, that's the same reason why we [00:37:00] go post-season scouting means right when the season's over. , you're going trying to find these spots. Like this Turkey season just forces you to cover a lot of ground. Because you still have a pursuit on your mind.

You're willing to cover miles, but you can see which one of these are actually thickets because if it's still thick in the beginning of March or the end of March, when it's not green, it's probably gonna be thick all to your season wall. Those are just the ones though that you gotta, you just gotta see on Pine.

And I have seen some of those pinett thickets, like that be some of my favorite spots. Yeah. The map thing to me, even if you're trying to look, which I basically don't even look at 'em no more, but the only thing I'm looking at on the map is train changes. Because if you're mature buck hunting, I'm not, I'm looking more at the train and stuff.

I am the Yep. The pines or whatever, because they might not, they going to be in different places than the rest of the deer. So I'm looking more at the train changes in different. Things and versus where Pines meet Harbor was on that part. Ah, that's interesting though. Cause the buck, a mature buck, [00:38:00] the nastier stuff as far as terrain is what I'm going to try to look at during Turkey season or right now, went, me and Kathy went, spent five miles on some nasty like boulder field stuff, just almost straight up and down, but, and just trying to find where the mature bucks are going.

Cause they're going to be in something completely different than the younger bucks to me and the do and stuff. So that's, so you don't find a parallel with mature bucks and hard line, like a, like hard transitions. This n year steeper stuff. Maybe with a shelf or something, but they don't have to have Yeah, that transition, but just na stuff you wouldn't think they'd be in, it was all you can do to get through it.

Like us, it was like mountain goat country or whatever, basically. So the bigger bucks, mature ones, do you feel like that kind of stuff like that nastier terrain? . I think they've learned it, learned adjusted to it. Cause over the years of pressure, I think they just, but do you also think that it might, he, if you're willing to hunt it, the, just the fact that it is so nasty, there's only certain ways that a [00:39:00] deer can, oh yeah.

It's use, it's limited and it's only certain ways you going, there's, you going have to find the right way to get in there. That's another thing. It's hard to getting access and that's why they're in there. So you gotta find that part. But it's, and it, you're not going go in there and sit and it'll be like, what Jamie's done, he 130 something days before he seen something beating up to hunt.

It might be before you can catch 'em. You're gonna be some boring days. But that's where they're gonna be at. So the bigger ones, it's just gonna be maybe one to two bucks. If you're lucky to catch 'em early, but after Halloween, you ain't gonna catch 'em together. I don't want think, but but the last year stuff is what I'm looking for during Turkey season.

It's not specifically what you can see on them in them. Satellite and stuff now, most of 'em two years old, whatever's, I don't even pay attention to that anymore cuz. Most of the time it's burnt runs. So I just get out and just take off. Walking on the roughest stuff you can walk in. So just looking for big droppings or big tracks?

Big tracks. Big drop-ins. Big bucks. Yep. Hopefully. Yeah. Ain't that what that mean? Yeah. . I'm gonna get confused in big old hog crap. Cause I'm thinking [00:40:00] that'll fell you a little bit. You gotta look. I can tell you how to figure out real quick with the hog. Pick it up and smell it. Cause you'll get that barnyard smell pretty close

You taste it. You taste it, don't you? Yeah. I ain't gonna tell you all that, but hey, you gotta have some secrets. I out what they're eating. The only way you gonna find out what they're eating, you gotta taste it. Anyway, I, I noticed this year early season and man, I thought I, I had one of those, another one of those moments or times where I felt like, man, I got it figured out.

I got it figured out. What's gonna happen during the rut and I'm on. , it's gonna be quick hunts. I'm gonna knock 'em out real quick. What the case obviously, so this didn't work, but early season I pinpointed the few oaks that I saw dropping all seemed to be at a similar elevation and they were all the ones that I found.

I wasn't finding anything on the rich tops or the flats that were dropping like nothing. But it really [00:41:00] was pretty close to a hundred percent of the ones that I hunted. Were gonna be on that top third. , which is where usually that military crest runs, logging roads. It seemed to really set up to be awesome during the rut because we know that deer like to cruise bucks, like to cruise that.

Oh yeah. That elevation. And I was like, man, the do are gonna be on that elevation because the only aprons that are on the ground are gonna be in that elevation. Everything's lining up. You don't even have to know where the oak tree is. Just know if there's one that's dropping over here, it's gonna be on this elevation.

Find that terrain feature that you're talking about, find whatever it is, and try to do it that way. And it, I will say the biggest buck that I killed this season I, when I first saw him, he was in the, he was running that top third and as soon as he ran by, I saw a dough that I thought was him.

She was feeding on acres [00:42:00] on that top third. He ran by her. I don't know what the heck was going on, but they were on that elevation. Ended up killing him because I rattled at 10 o'clock and came out three hours later from the same direction. But he had been, I believe he had just been hanging out where she was feeding at.

And eventually just out of view from me. And so it worked out. One hunt. Did you guys see anything season? Was that early? No, that was December the 21st or 22nd. Okay. That was there that I was seen. That was. That was December. That would've been the first week. Anyway, you're talking about the upper third of the up.

But there I seen, and then Laurel Bushes was the bucks and stuff was on the upper third of the lower basically, yeah, I know what you're saying. Where they're at. So they were, so it was a little bit different. So the upper third of Okay. Where I typically find the laurel thickets is gonna be on like bluff edges.

, is that what you're saying? The lower part. Yeah, the lower underneath that bluff edge. If he was up there on the upper, the military crest part, you've been, it could just depend on where you at. You could have been 300 yards above it or something. Yeah. And [00:43:00] so that was where I've seen them deer at was.

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We talk about clear cuts again and I think you could talk about these laurel thickets in the same way. A lot of times when I pick out a clear cut to hunt gonna try to be on the downwind side of it, right? Buck's gonna cruise that downwind side of the thicket, which is usually the clear cut that [00:44:00] I'm hunting, whatever.

It's pretty entry level stuff when you're talking about the style of hunting, right? You can do that. The same with a greenfield or something like that. Yeah. Green fields, the laurel thickets. You can find all that kind of stuff. Jamie, you said a lot about hunting clear cuts. Did you feel like that was the case, or you felt like the bucks were actually just in the clear cut or in the cutovers and the thick, that thick growth browse I could find at the time, but it was no, hold on just a second.

I think you're, I'm having your mic. There you go. I guess that cable got a short int it. It's good now. All right. ? No, I jumped in and out that, that muzzle loader, I stayed in there and then, A couple of the hunts, I jumped back and forth, if it wasn't working, I wouldn't stay in. Yeah.

That buck I killed at Fred Hills. I was on a cut over edge, but the point that he come out of was like a hardwood point and it was buttoning up against cut over. So just kinda a pinch [00:45:00] as but just, it just, it cut over just for bucks to me is you gotta be the specific place, the specific one or maybe a specific elevation for bucks.

To me on Cutovers, it just ain't, it's not every cutover, but it has to line up just right. It's the terrain feature with the gotta be terrain mixture with a cut over to me for bucks. So I could absolutely see that. Mike, I know you, you talked a lot in the past about hunting creek crossings.

It's always been a big thing for you. How did that pan out this year? It's. That deer that I killed at Freedom Hills over were the creek down there. He could have crossed it coming up and it, most of the stuff I'm do is based on some kind of creek crossing his, when I find the tracks to get an idea of where they going or to a different edge or something like that.

So he has a very good chance he probably could have crossed the creek or other deer that across the creek going by there. So that's very possible. The other one that killed at Oak Mugga was a swamp that had a small creek running through it [00:46:00] and he crossed it, but it's just somewhere I could see tracks and just, and it's historical way this, these fingers are that run into a swamp edge and the way they pinched down that they travel through where it killed at six point.

So was that the one, was that the deer that was in the, there was something significant about the tree that you shot it out of or something like that? No, the other one, the South Murphy trip killed like 17, 18 deer out of it. Okay. That's what I'm thinking of. Or something years ago, me, my dad, we went there.

and we, it was a, you can still hear some people talking about this tactic on some engineers. It's got a lot of roads. We've got a lot of bro blocky dirt roads. You can go on there and say hour or two after daylight and drive around seeing where everybody's hunting at. Then in and 20 your trucks, you're driving looking for tracks crossing.

So we found two different places where deer crossed M 20 light trucks and dad dropped me off and he went and checked some. Other than that, when I'm sneaking in, I jump some deer and watch where they go and I go on down and find me a tree by a creek. [00:47:00] They had a two little finger things that come to it and I climbed that tree and I think the next day I killed the first bike or first bucket ever killed.

So ever since then, if I go there, if I sign around there, I'm climbing that dang tree. So that was the, that was, you killed your first buck out of the tree, that you killed this buck out of that day. Yeah, and I hadn't been there how many years later. It's, I have to look, it's in the eighties, 80 something.

I hadn't been there probably, I hadn't killed a deer out there since 10 years. Last year was the first year I've been there in probably 10 years because I've been hunting other areas. But I drove down there last year and checked it out, scouted and climbed up that tree scene. Three deer. They done got by me.

I couldn't shoot 'em. So it's a, they've they raped and land a little bit. They, they're supposed to live a smz pretty good. They messed this one up. They got over the line and it just luck that it didn't cut this tree on one side. You can't see hardly. You can hear 'em go by, but you can't see nothing but some hair every now and then.

But anyway it's a good pinch point that backs up to a swamp. And I've, I ain't no telling how many deer I've seen there, but most, when I first started hunting there, we didn't care enough about no antlers. It just, [00:48:00] whatever legal, if that shark was legal, it was getting shot. So I think the best deer I've killed out ever, the three and a half year old nine point and that was a three and a three old, five or six point.

He was ready to fight, good sized body. He just didn't have no racks. But he was ready to fight. But it's them, and if you find a place like that, they can produce him, especially with a bunch of that land has a lot of cut over there. And when a pine gets big enough today, cut there, cutting them, placing there, stripper off for miles.

But I just, them areas produce year after year and it just so happened I had a slow year early and I got to go over there and get one. So I know you've talked a lot about in the past when you've been on the podcast it, it definitely seems like a lot of your, the places that you're hunting or very historical, like they, you just you really concentrate on.

That's something that, especially in my home area I've drawn from you a lot of is man, you get a good handful of areas with, four or five spots you can hunt in that area, then you pretty much can. do that your whole season as long as it [00:49:00] keep keeps producing. Did this year force you to maybe not do that as much or did you continue doing that?

You got, if you can find places to produce and it's got potential for a big buck historically or whatever, learn that land the best you can and stick with it. Cause if you get to jumping around too much, you're going to outthink yourself. I think. So learn your land, learn the timeframe with the rud or if you're a rut hunting, if you're trying to get one, early season or specific buck hunting you going, you might have to get out more and find specific tracks to specific beds.

But during the rut, the areas I hunt, I learn is trying to catch, got a chance at more than one buck. So I've said that many times. So we'll learn. It gets you saying, we're gonna say Blackwater, we're gonna say Elk Mogan, we're gonna say Sam Murphy and Freedom Hill get you two or three spots per side to per zone.

Learn them all you can, that's got potential for whatever type of dirt it is. You're. can shoot, and that's another thing is find out what's what the potential is. If you want to shoot a 180, that chance of doing that at Freedom Hills is [00:50:00] almost impossible. Black Warrior possible, old Moge maybe but in a couple other places maybe.

But the rest of 'em, you need to drop your standard on down. The say one 20 is a dug on good deer. Most time, 110 ish is gonna be a good deer. So make sure of that and then learn them areas, find out what your goals are, what the potential is on the place you're gonna hunt, learn that land, learn and then every year go back and broaden that a little bit, check out some new spots, then be ready to, spot check it a little bit, right?

During the early season or right before seasons to make your plans. So that's all I try to do, cuz it, going out states you can do things different, but it just depends on what you want to do. I know people that kill a big buck in one place and they won't go back to that place ever again.

Their goal is to go to a different place and kill a big buck. And that, that can be hard, sometimes it's tough, man. I know. I get in that habit though. I do, I find myself in that position a lot where, man, you just just the curiosity in me, man, I know I killed this buck here.

[00:51:00] I'm gonna leave that alone though. I'm gonna go try to find another spot. I know that spot will produce. I know it will. So I'm gonna go try to find another spot. Will Purdue, man, this is, this wasn't the year for that kind of thinging, I don't think not say it black. We probably not, because like you'd have to adjust some, because it'll probably in the same general mile and a half area.

Yeah. But you're just gonna have to adjust to what they're feeding on. That's right. So I think that was, that's important. It just because you're not seeing deer in the spot that you've always hunt. Like when I say the spot, I mean the funnel or the tree or whatever. and the deer probably still somewhere around there.

Oh yeah. We're not saying go it. It's figuring out those areas. And learning what they do. And then when you have years like this, man, just retain all that information. You guys, y'all are, I know you've caught some flack for this stuff. I don't know if you have nearly as much, but I get flack every year.

Yeah. I'll told my wife at Murphy when I went to Murphy, I said, [00:52:00] if I hope I'd kill a spike, cause I going to drag that thing from at Sam Murphys side, take 20 pictures and put on Facebook. Cause that's what I'm talk about. I wanna talk about the signs. You gotta talk about the book too. Cause that, yeah, I call a lot of crap over that book, which you need to promote the book a little bit, but hey.

But anyway I, that picture on that book, we debated that hard because there's some people, man, you'd be crazy to put that I said, but to me, the picture. and the area where it come from, you don't, they deserve it. The buck deserve to be in the picture and the dang area that produced it, but deserved to be in the picture to me.

Why hide it to me? That's just me, but boy as people hate it. So what do you think, Tammy? Oh, I don't try to get in front of it no more. . Golly. This mic is screwing up. Say that again, sorry. Oh, I don't try to get in front of the sign that much. No more . Yeah, no. You felt like you've seen some some negative impact from it, from you doing it?

I gotta say this is one of my favorite parts. I've seen it been impacted this year, and in 2000 it was a lot of big deer [00:53:00] shot and it was impacted. Then I, this is my favorite part about podcasting. When you can get in a room and people have differing opinions on something, it's I literally love this.

It's because I, for me, I think it makes you a better hunter. They cuss me up once I've done the other for the last five years before I killed that. State record, but so yeah, it didn't, I can say it didn't hurt me. Y they could talk about all they want to, Hey, I'll still put another deer in front of the sign, , keep doing it.

It's gonna be a thing until Mike Perry dies. I'll tell you that. I don't know that, but I'm just saying that you still gotta do it and regardless and there, that, that area has been known to produce big deer forever. Just cause I put it in front of a dang. Sign it to prove it.

Yeah. Don't mean, I don't know. They, some people get butt hurt over it. It's crazy. But anyway, it did have less of an impact, I will say probably two years ago, three years ago than it does now. More people know who you are. It carries a little more weight whenever you post that.

I shot a buck. I'm trying to remember which bucket it was the first buck I shot in [00:54:00] Alabama this year, which was not a big deer at all. It was just one of those situations I was explaining on the podcast before. , major ground, shrinkage, whatever, a buck that could any WMA in the country, anywhere that has white tails, you could find a buck like this.

And I posted this buck and this guy was like, man, I'd do anything to kill a buck like that. Where'd you kill that deer at? What wma You kill that deer at. I'm like, dang it, dude. This is . It's the, we were talking about a young, really small seven point. That and people want to know, so I can imagine you shoot a nearly 200 inch deer, it, you got, it's gotta carry some weight, right?

Is there a part of you that feels some people, yeah, and I had a young guy last year. I went to Freedom Hills waiting on Charles to kill. Darren was waiting on him, bringing in a young guy, come walking up and he looked at me. He said, ain't you that guy that killed that big deer? I said, yeah,

He said, is that your [00:55:00] truck over? I said, it's the only truck sitting here beside them. Game morning trucks. Okay. And left all, he was worried about what kind of truck I had, what kind of truck you have. So I guess he gonna hunt my truck. But anyway, and I have people do that, but I don't, oh yeah. I can adjust to it.

Say, hey, you gotta be able to adjust to it. And again I'm ready for it. Guess so, bud. Yeah. It doesn't, it hasn't slowed you down. I don't worry about it. Do you feel like there's any if you had to honestly look at it for you, do you feel like your hunting's been impacted negatively because of that pressure?

No. No. Nope. , I feel that the, a cro we had this year, it didn't really matter. It didn't matter. You should have just absolutely. Like last year, just blown that, I guess that buck did not blown out of proportion, but everybody knew about that buck. There was people traveling from all kinds of states to hunt that area and got their butts kicked.

This year, probably from. Tennessee. I didn't get to see it, but I was told about it Kansas. And [00:56:00] Florida. Oh. And I was thinking the guy from Kansas, I was like, yeah, what was he thinking? I wonder you doing whitewater? That's comparable. Yeah, I've seen an Iowa tag at Sam Murphy. Ah. I took a picture of it.

That's I don't know if I comes to Sam Murphy, but now I've seen. But course we dun. If we're Dun and I when they come in for me to whatever, that's fine. So that's a long ways to drive to come on Alabama. Hey Dwight, my brother's Archer shop. Anyway, he had a guy, he called him, he says, ma'am, we got rear ended yesterday.

And I got back up in the tree done at Seven Mile Island. And I looked down and undoubtedly shot his broadheads out of his quiver. Anyway, almost cut his, one of his strings in two. Dang. And he's from Alaska. Wow. Yeah. I don't know if he cut, come down, bought him on a camper RV or whatever. Stay down here in Alabama.

Bow hunting. and hunt South Mile Island. He was on Seven Mile Island. Oh. And I told him, I said, that's a pretty good place to pick. He comes from Alaska kicking in right now. And this was later January. Later January. So you [00:57:00] need to head south. They just now getting kicked up. Yeah. And he fixed him back up because Alaska, he makes bus kes of strings on the spot.

Had him fixed up in about 30 minutes. That's good. Yeah, man, I'm glad. I'm glad I'm, I ain't going to edit out all the w A names. Yeah. Y'all just keep talking about that way. They're all that way. They're all equal. We talk, we done talk about every w a in Alabama. There's a bunch of 'em that, that, that's one thing I'm proud of this year.

That's the fifth different man there that I've killed. A eight pointer, bigger on. That's cool. So the Freedom Hill there got a lot of 'em I like to go to. It's just because social media, man, there's several down south Kill some bruises. Yeah. And I just, either I'm tagged out or. , I'm some burnout time, late January road around.

I don't want to head that far down, but yeah. It's just, we got some up here in north Alabama on county partial too, and I wanna go like Murphy. I let one go this time. I, when he turned his head and [00:58:00] looked at me, it's high and tight and I like, I ain't shooting that deer . I let him go in the following week.

Way different. We are different. The following week I told my brother, I said, if it's the same one you killed, I'm glad I let him go. But if it's not, I'm still happy with the decision I made to let him go. But end up being a really good deer for him. For anybody, yeah. Good. It turned out being a lot nicer if it's the same deer.

I just know when he looked at me it was really tight. That's, it's a tough thing on public land and in certain situations to make. And sometimes you get, you got a few seconds to make your mind, doesn't it? Sometimes you get burnt, you're like, man, yeah, I think I'm gonna let him go. And then later I let one at a hunting club go a couple years ago.

had him at 60 yards, broad size split G2 s I said, ah, I'm gonna let him go. I text my buddy, he said, where do you think he'd go? I said, Hey, he might go 1 25, man, you should have shot that deer. An hour later he come up and he is walking a skidder trail to me and when he was swapping ruts, [00:59:00] I pulled a trigger and I seen him right up in my scope and turned and run off.

Called my father-in-law going to the truck. I said, man, I just shot pretty good bug. He said, I said, starting to dribble. I'm gonna sit in the truck with me. You better get on that blood. You're gonna lose him. And my exact words with a shot like yet, he's not going far. . He come up, help me. Look. I looked that night.

I hit vacation that week. I looked all week, looked every buzzard I seen flying. I found a do had been shot with a rage or lemme take it back now. Maybe not a rage. A two blade broadhead expandable. I found a calf thrown out in a cut over and then. A guy was a deer farmer that was in the club. He killed him at Thursday and I shot him right across the bridge of the oaks, right below the eye across as soon as he stepped in the s scope.

And Nelly pulled the trigger and he measured him at 1 39 and some change. . That hurt. Oh. Gotta tell. Its old boy ain't passing him one. 20, 20. Oh. Cause my buddy that still had the [01:00:00] club, he, they had a deer that was coming to a feeder they was taking, had pictures of sent to me and he had split twos and maybe another he said, looks familiar, don't he

I was like, it still hurts. Yeah. Yeah. Man it was a interesting year. Like I said before I use you guys as gauge all season long man, it's, and then Jamie goes off and kills, kills him on back to back days. And I was like a hundred thirty, one thirty two and four H. Yeah. 132 inch, eight point is a that going good?

Mean? That's a nice buck man. . No credit to me, man. I got invited on this hunt. My buddy scouted the area out, seen a really good buck over that he wanted to hunt and he come help me that, that Friday evening, get the deer out that I shot. When I'm coming out, I'm like, man, I, my phone went dead. I was like, man, I hope he comes over and checks on me when I topped that rise.

I seen him [01:01:00] fog lights burning on that truck. I said, oh yes, . So I've gotta do something different cuz it's mile and a half in, mile and a half out, mile and a half back in mile and a half out. That's six miles that evening. Okay. He says, you gonna go with me in the morning? I'm gonna hunt that big deer.

I said, ah, you got the boys rest of the weekend on. He said, yeah. I said, cuz that'll be the only day we'll go over and hunt us cuz I was wanting to hit some more. I said, yeah, I'll go with you. So on OnX. We didn't have no signal to drop a pin for me to go. So we finally compared em up and put it on the terrain feature so we can match up to the rain that way we're, no, we're looking at the right spot.

And he done the same thing that I'd done to him a couple years ago. He punched my phone, he said, climbed someone right in there. You should be able to see two draws. I said, man, I'm going in there and I'm walking and I'm looking at this pen and I'm walking. I cut my headlamp off. I'm looking at the tree lines and I [01:02:00] walk.

I look and I'm looking. I said, man, I don't see tot draws and I keep walking. And I said that kind of looks like a point going down there. So I crossed the top of the ridge and the moon's bright that night, or not night that next during the night or whatever. And I'm, man, that looks like a draw right there.

I believe that's that sharkfin in this terrain feature here. I'm gonna climb a tree now going back like you're blind rattling and it come back to you. Okay, I'm sitting up there in this tree. Ain't got a clue where I'm at. . I can call I gnt every so often, but leading into that, like on one of the other hunts, he give me a bottle of that native cent, the war party, I think.

And I'm not big on cents because I've always had horror stories when I'm walking down that draw on the hunt before and I'm spraying on some of the scrapes walking down and I'm talking about some, sure enough rubs. And right before dark I had a [01:03:00] spike walking top of the bluff and he stops dead in his track.

He throws his nose up, he goes all the way up the draws. And I was like, ma'am, this is native senses too. And I was like, he picked this up from a long ways and walked all way up the draw trying to figure this out. Said okay, my spurt bottle messed up on me, so now I'm going back to the hunt where I killed the big eight.

And I done got it all over my hand that one day cuz it wouldn't missed out. It just run down the bottles crap. I said I'm taking in this morning. I put it in my shirt pocket, tore me off, two pieces of toilet paper stuck in my pocket. And I said, when I find me a tree to climb. So I picked me a tree out to climb.

I walk over, I put one toilet paper out, I take the left. I said, I'm not bringing this back out. I pour one out on one, pour it out on the other all well, it slipped out my finger. It's man, surely I didn't get that on my boot. Later when I got home at night, I smelled my boot and it's covered in urine but

So I'm sitting up in the tree, I'm can calling. I'm grunting every so often. [01:04:00] I think it was eight 30 and I look up and this deer's coming side hilling. Anyway, I shoot him, but I'm like, I don't know if he smelt a scent. And the combination with Ken calling and grunting brought him in. I don't know. Huh? No different than rattling early season. Yeah. If you don't try nothing. I heard this. This weekend, I'm sitting there watching, it's a video podcast. I think it's white public land, whitetails. That's what it is. And I was telling Michael about it, but anyway, this guy says, no boss, no bucks. . If you're not gonna try nothing, Randall Eric

You may not get that. How's that Randall that said that? Yeah. So if you're not willing to try something, man, I agree with that. And you, I not seen that is exactly right. I was talking to y'all know who Andy Maye is. Yeah. Around Michigan. Really good. One of the greatest whitetail hunters there is.

Yep, that's right. I was talking to him [01:05:00] at ATA a couple years back, maybe three years. This is the only time I've ever been to ata. And we were hanging out talking. I was like, man, what you do is just so cool. We weren't doing a podcast or anything. We were just hanging out. And he talked about how when he was younger, when he first started hunting, he was going in and.

Basically, he was seeing how close he could get without getting busted. Like really risky stuff. But it taught him how close he could get without getting busted. Sometimes you can get a whole lot closer. You take those risks like that. It goes back to that. No balls, no bucks.

Man, if you're not willing to maybe try something a little bit unconventional you may still kill bucks every once in a while, but, and I feel, so my dynamic the last two years has been a little bit different than it was before. The last two seasons, I've been self-employed, working for myself.

I can hunt whenever I want. And so I've actually found that it's hurt me to be able to hunt so much because I play a little bit too safe. I [01:06:00] don't get aggressive as I should. Whenever I just have maybe two or three days a week to hunt, I'm trying to take advantage of those two or three days. All week long I'm thinking, all right, the wind's gonna be supposed to be from here.

How am I gonna, blah, blah, whatever. . But now that I pretty much can hunt five, six days a week, it's pretty much the night before I'm like, okay, where am I gonna go? And I'm like it's only Tuesday. I don't wanna wear myself out and get over here when I really need to be getting over there.

Probably by Friday I can, if I, nothing's happened, I can push in a little bit deeper. Whereas before, I wouldn't be going out until Friday and I'd be like, I'm gonna go right. Way the heck back here. Yeah. And it, that's definitely a, that being aggressive making those decisions is sometimes you'll make better decisions if you'll hunt less days and you're rested.

Yeah. That's a big part of it because sometimes you're not three days in a row in steep country, you're freaking beat. [01:07:00] It ain't fun at that point. It's like it's. , I'm more out like every morning I gotta wake up at two o'clock. I gotta, why do I love this sport so much? , . But three days of three days solid of hunting it'll wear you out.

And that, that was something I learned this year. I think I'm gonna try to implement that for sure. Is be it. I may even, thanks Randall for that quote cuz I may print it out and you know how football players will slap a sign on the locker room. Yeah. I'm gonna put it on my garage door, no balls, no buts.

And just slap that every time, all the way out. Go in there and push the envelope. . That's it. Because he's an envelope pusher. He does he's no doubt. So he's pretty, he's a very successful, that's father Hunter. Two and a half in, two and a half out. Two and a half back in, two and a half out. You talking about some more out boys?

He going to buy you a couple more beer carts and have 'em staged out? ? No, because he, when we first took off, he's you got a backpack on? I got a backpack. He said, [01:08:00] let's quarter this deer up. Ah, man, I ain't throwing another backpack away. I said, the one I got for quarter, and I said, it will stay in the truck next year.

So I made quarter mine up next year if I'm in there date all depends on what he looks like. Have you done it before? Yeah. It's so much better. I can get all you. I haven't now with cell phones, I've never done it. Cell phones and timers, you can get all the field pictures you want so you ain't gotta come out and get somebody to do all this for you.

You can prop stand up. No, you gotta take it in front of the sign, Jamie. Yeah, I was about to say, Mike. Mike takes it. Yeah he will not pack out a deer because he's gotta get that signed picture. Piss somebody off for 10 hours to get that signed picture. , if Kevin's there, I'll be in front of the sign if Kevin's not there.

What? Anyway, I'll tell you later. . Oh man. Fellas, we're running up on time. I enjoyed the heck out of this. That was fun. It was fun. Yes, man. And Kathy does not ever disappoint what snacks you best tell on the chili. And I missed out on the chili cuz I just ate. [01:09:00] But I'm about to wear out some of this.

Now is this weaver's, is this deer? Weavers, Weaver's ring baloney. Yeah. That's good stuff right there. It is. Great. Yes. I ain't found nothing bad from that place yet. . That's awesome. I'm curious to, I need to call em, say mate. Cause they were, the other day they were 4,500 or 4,600 or something.

4,600 or something like that. So Pablo brought me some which by the way, Pablo this man is a gift giver. Oh, you gotta, he brings me something every single time I see him. And he brought, I've, I killed like 10 deer this year and he, me, deer meat, he killed six or something. Did he? A bunch of them.

Yeah. You talk about dragging a deer a long way. That song of a Gun went like a mile and a half out there and shot a dough. chug her back. Hey, that's fire up there. That's fire. I younger when I was younger. I've done it, man. I've done it with a mu load hunt and it come a storm. It was raining so hard, which I had my deer card.

I was like, man, I could go home, get my boy. We come back out all time. I do all that and get back out. I get it out [01:10:00] by myself, and it was raining so hard. All I could do was look and make sure I was still on the gravel and walk. It's how hard it was raining, and I'm thinking for a dough. , . But I wanted to kill one of my muzzle over there.

Sometimes you want kill 'em that bad. I've, I have no what? I've worked hard way back in there. I've worked hard for some dough, and especially those early season ones when you're like, man, I ain't killed a deer in almost a year. I will work hard for this one. I've gotta get out of that mode of, man, this is right here.

I believe I'm gonna kill a butt. I ain't shooting that dough. That's my bait. . Yeah, man. I passed up on a couple where I coulda killed with a bow, and now I look back, it's man, I like to kill deer with a bow. That's fun. And then, anyway, it's hard for me to do it at Black Warehouse because I don't want to get on spooky or anything.

I'd rather 'em doze be relaxed, so I just, man, unless I'm hunting something edge or far away or something. But I just don't wanna mess 'em up cuz it's so close. Most of time, some of 'em close, some of shooting them with my bow. But if I hit a field or something like that, I may [01:11:00] take one here or there.

But I, I can see that in a lot of the places that y'all hunt because it really is low deer density. But other parts of the state, man I've got places where I hunt that you could go out there, maybe not this year, but in years past, you go out there, any morning, any clear cool morning, in October, you'll see 15 doughs.

Wow. And you absolutely gotta kill 'em. I, you know what's funny about that spot is I've only ever killed one buck in this spot. . And it's without a doubt the most deer dense area that I hunt. That's why I kill, I kill a bunch of dough off of that little piece of that small little piece of property during the early season.

Sound like you need to kill 'em. Yeah, you got to. If you'll thin 'em down, then you'll see 'em on bucks, man. That's my hope And prayer. Cool fellas, appreciate you guys coming on and I think we need to do this again next year. Hey, y'all buy 'em a book, please? Yeah, go buy one of them books. . Where can they buy it?

At? [01:12:00] Amazon, of course. Then vans, sporting Goods and Coleman and Weavers Meat Processing and Harel. So right now that's the three places. Is there any or me is, tell me, is there any way anywhere somebody can get a signed copy? I've had people mail me checks and I've done it and I don't have any out, put out anywhere signed.

I'll be at I'll be walking around at the Nashville Wild Turkey Expo with some, I'll be at the s sci show in Nashville. We'll be at Birmingham. So I don't think I'll be at the Buckmaster this year, cuz I'd have to take vacation again. I don't wanna get into my deer hunting days too much. But yeah. Or I've met people, get 'em to 'em.

So anyway, if you want one sign, whatever, just holler at me. We'll figure something out. That's not a big deal. We can do that. Okay. Thanks for reminding me about Nwtf. It's gonna be coming up this weekend as this podcast drops, the day that this podcast drops. Oh, really? Sweet. We'll be at we'll be at nwtf.

If you're at Nwtf. I'm gonna be around somewhere. I'm gonna [01:13:00] be at the New Canoe product Showcase. Sweet and hanging out there trying to record some podcasts. So if you see me say hi, I do tell everybody I appreciate the people that bought to books. So that's a lot. So that's helped out a lot and I was proud to You're welcome.

See what took me out thinking game. Really appreciate . Y'all didn't know this, but Jamie was actually the writer Mike, just the ghost rider of the book, right? Yeah. I'm just the ghost writer. , we'll call it Jamie's information. Yeah, . That's a combined effort. I have fellas. Appreciate y'all. Thank you babe.

Glad y'all had a good season. It was awesome. Thanks sir, too.

Hey guys, thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Southern Ground Hunting Podcast. And as always, a big shout out to all of our partners. Let's go. Wild tethered, Spartan Forge and six Day Grind Coffee Company. You can keep up with southern ground hunting by following us on Facebook or Instagram or subscribing to the YouTube channel, and you can be sure to check us [01:14:00] to pick up some of our merch, read some blog articles and all that good stuff.

I truly hope you enjoyed this week's episode, and we'll see you here again next week. Remember that God gave you dominion over the birds of the air, the fish of the sea, and the beasts of the earth. So go out and exercise that dominion. We will talk to you next week.